Avatar image for xzone
#101 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@kryptonianpride: Also, I hate to be rude here, but is this your first time in a debate where someone could call stuff on you? For instance, where I said “Mach 200 mjolnir”, I said it was used in that one circumstance, I didn’t say Mjolnir was Mach 200 every time he threw it, so your “debunking” was nothing but arguing against an argument I never used...

I won’t say anymore as I want to keep to the general CaV format, but you’re purposefully misunderstanding what I’m saying and it’s a little annoying tbh, but I’ll get to that later...

X

Online
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#102 Posted by kryptonianpride (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

No, I clearly said 3 excluding the intro. You have my Intro and 2 rebuttals. Final Closing statement is next for me and its over.

No Caption Provided

@xzone said:

@kryptonianpride: First we said 3 posts total, then you said 3 not including the first one, now it’s 5 total... Why

X

Avatar image for xzone
#103 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

No, I clearly said 3 excluding the intro. You have my Intro and 2 rebuttals. Final Closing statement is next for me and its over.

No Caption Provided
@xzone said:

@kryptonianpride: First we said 3 posts total, then you said 3 not including the first one, now it’s 5 total... Why

X

I was pretty sure we agreed to three posts total at the beginning, then you wanted to do 3 posts + the opener, to which I disagreed but you didn’t respond, and now you currently have one opener, 3 rebuttels, and you’re doing your closing next, that’s 5

X

Online
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#104 Edited by kryptonianpride (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

Post 17 is the Intro (0)

Post 28 is First setup (1)

Post 80 Second setup (2)

Post 98 is my counter and closing statement (3)

My apologies. My end is over. And I mentioned my closing statement inside that already. So, the last line of my last post said I had another post coming and I wasn't correct. So, i removed that sentence. And cited my Finale as the Closing Statement.

My posts are over, you have one closing statement left.

Avatar image for xzone
#105 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Post 17 is the Intro (0)

Post 28 is First setup (1)

Post 80 Second setup (2)

Post 98 is my counter and closing statement (3)

My apologies. My end is over. And I mentioned my closing statement inside that already. So, the last line of my last post said I had another post coming and I wasn't correct. So, i removed that sentence. And cited my Finale as the Closing Statement.

My posts are over, you have one closing statement left.

Alright, just wanted to clear that up

X

Online
Avatar image for darthvaderrocks
#106 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for xzone
#107 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Final post is in the works, though it probably won't be up till later tonight

X

Online
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#108 Posted by kryptonianpride (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Take your time man. No rush required,.

Avatar image for precrisisbardock
#109 Posted by PreCrisisBardock (8348 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

Avatar image for xzone
#110 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor Odinson, god of Thunder, Strongest Avenger

No Caption Provided

Why Thor Wins:

I'll do a few rebuttals, but quite honestly, your claims and rebuttals are so off base I'm gonna use the majority of my last post solidifying my argument here. I'll give a number of scenarios for Thor to win here, then, its up to you, the reader to decide if my arguments are valid

Scenario One:

Like I've already said, Doctor Strange only has base Human Durability, so anything that would kill a normal Human is going to kill DS. Look through my opponent's arguments, the only durability points he has displayed are DS using mystical shields to block Thor's lightning, then claiming since these shields could block the power stone blast they can block Thor's lightning. There are two major flaws with this argument

  • The first and most important point is this: Doctor Strange has never shown the ability to react to something at One Third the speed of light, such as Thor's lightning. This means Thor can simply call a lightning bolt down on strange before he can react and one shot him
  • And secondly, even if Doctor Strange could react, Thor's more powerful blasts are far stronger than an unquantifiable blast from the power stone

This scenario is first because it is the most likely

No Caption Provided

Thor simply calls down a bolt of lightning and one shots the Doctor before he can react, GG. But let's say somehow DS could in fact react to Thor's lightning, well, here's why DS doesn't stand a chance of blocking it

Now, you might be wondering, why is this so impressive?
Now, you might be wondering, why is this so impressive?

Because this feat previously required 5-10 mjolnir swings. This means Thor's quick lightning blasts are 5-10 more powerful than concentrated Mjolnir blows.. That's insane, and DS isn't stopping that
Because this feat previously required 5-10 mjolnir swings. This means Thor's quick lightning blasts are 5-10 more powerful than concentrated Mjolnir blows.. That's insane, and DS isn't stopping that

Scenario Two:

Let's say Doctor Strange immediately enters the astral plane as my opponent says is his game plan, well, what then? My opponent has yet to show one time where Doctor Strange has actually hurt someone outside the astral plane while in the astral plane. The only time he has used some variation in combat was when he fought Thanos with clones, but an AOE from the power stone was more than enough to damage DS's body and bring him out, something Thor can replicate as easily as this:

No Caption Provided

Once this happens DS will be stunned and easily defeated

Scenario Three:

But what if the unusual happened? What if this somehow became a prolonged fight? Well, the longer this fight goes the worse it is for Doctor Strange. Thor's attacks, durability and speed are far, far beyond that of Doctor Strange

Speed:

Really not sure why my opponent can't understand this feat, but im sure you, the reader can see clearly that Thor is the only one moving while Stark are completely frozen. Now, my opponent said above that the ultron bot was moving here, and that it debunked the speed feat, and at first glance it might seem that way, but in reality you can see Thor is actually pushing the ultron bot with his left arm while he is preparing to strike him with mjolnir. This is actually a great example of Thor blitzing someone
Really not sure why my opponent can't understand this feat, but im sure you, the reader can see clearly that Thor is the only one moving while Stark are completely frozen. Now, my opponent said above that the ultron bot was moving here, and that it debunked the speed feat, and at first glance it might seem that way, but in reality you can see Thor is actually pushing the ultron bot with his left arm while he is preparing to strike him with mjolnir. This is actually a great example of Thor blitzing someone
It's worth noting that Stark who was completely frozen has been dodging mach 4.5 projectiles since his first film, and while this does not directly translate to his combat speed, it is impressive nonetheless
It's worth noting that Stark who was completely frozen has been dodging mach 4.5 projectiles since his first film, and while this does not directly translate to his combat speed, it is impressive nonetheless
Here Thor reacts to chitari fire easily
Here Thor reacts to chitari fire easily
Here you can see those same chitari blasts move at the speed of machine gun fire, mach 4 or so
Here you can see those same chitari blasts move at the speed of machine gun fire, mach 4 or so

Here you can see Thor can blitz so fast he creates a vacuum to pull multi-ton cars in to a portal
Here you can see Thor can blitz so fast he creates a vacuum to pull multi-ton cars in to a portal

The take away from this:

Thor can easily blitz DS, and nothing DS has will hit Thor before he reacts

Strength:

Here we see Thor can easily swing around a multi ton space ship with absolute ease
Here we see Thor can easily swing around a multi ton space ship with absolute ease

We see here that Thor is strong enough to not just move the rings to break the ice, but also able to overpower Rocket's ship
We see here that Thor is strong enough to not just move the rings to break the ice, but also able to overpower Rocket's ship

These strength feats are so far above Strange co-holding one arm back from Thanos it's laughable
These strength feats are so far above Strange co-holding one arm back from Thanos it's laughable

Here are the facts as we know them:

Doctor Strange used his abilities to bind one arm from Thanos for a short amount of time (without clones), and this quite honestly is no where near enough to say DS is even close to Thor in Strength. We don't know that Thanos didnt use the power stone on Thor, or that the entire black order didn't help Thanos fight Thor. As of now Thor simply has the far superior Strength feats, and thats why he wins this category

Durability:

Like I've said multiple times now, DS is simply incapable of putting Thor down

The best my opponent can offer is DS restraining Thanos for a few seconds, and even though I've already shown why that won't work against Thor, let's say DS somehow did capture Thor for a short amount of time. So what? For one, Thor's cloak would automatically hit the clones of strange like this, and for another Thor's durability is too much to be hurt by such weak energy attacks

No Caption Provided

In slow motion you can clearly see the lightning latching on to opponents Thor isn't even looking at, so if DS somehow did restrain him this AOE would get him out of it anyways
In slow motion you can clearly see the lightning latching on to opponents Thor isn't even looking at, so if DS somehow did restrain him this AOE would get him out of it anyways

But on to the Durability feats

Here's Thor at a near death state surviving a massive explosion from the power stone
Here's Thor at a near death state surviving a massive explosion from the power stone

Thor tanks a massive explosion from the bifrost
Thor tanks a massive explosion from the bifrost

Thor Straight up tanked an explosion that dwarfed a small town
Thor Straight up tanked an explosion that dwarfed a small town

Thor survives the energy/heat of a star
Thor survives the energy/heat of a star

Tanks a city exploding in his face
Tanks a city exploding in his face

Falls thirty thousand feet with no issue
Falls thirty thousand feet with no issue

Really now, DS has no way at all to kill Thor without using portals to BFR parts of his body, and thats never happening because of Thor's cloak, DS can't get close enough to restrain him or portal him

Destructive Capabilities:

Just wanted to quickly once again show how easily Thor can one shot DS

Throws a reality stone user through a building with ease
Throws a reality stone user through a building with ease

Creates massive shockwaves
Creates massive shockwaves

Creates a massive shockwave and nearly One-shots the Hulk
Creates a massive shockwave and nearly One-shots the Hulk

Can destroy a city block with ease
Can destroy a city block with ease

Recap:

Thor has every single advantage he needs to win this fight:

  • A cloak to keep DS from restraining him
  • The durability to withstand any attack DS can throw at him
  • The strength/AOE to get out of any restrain DS may somehow put him in
  • The speed to straight up blitz DS (Thor blitzed the Hulk who can react to mach^ projectiles easily)
  • The speed of his attacks to one shot DS b4 he can react
  • The attack potency to one-shot DS with ease

I ask for your vote because I have demonstrated the obvious advantages, may they be speed, strength, or simply versatility, that Thor possesses over my opponent

With that said, GG and may the best Viner win

X

Online
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#111 Edited by kryptonianpride (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

xZone, you introduced about 20 new arguments and feats into your closing argument. You provided your battle strategy in your final closing argument with 3 scenarios. Seems immensely unfair to me. I mentioned that in my closing statement that it wouldn't be fair to bring up brand new arguments and at this point it was too late for you to bring up any actual battle plan in your closing argument. You made sure I couldnt respond to your actual battle scenario and what Thor would do, and also introduced brand new feats after my responses were done?

Whatever at this point. I hope voters understand that you aren't supposed to do that in CAVs and that you need to have your strategy fully known to the opponent prior to the final statements.

Thanks for reading everyone, good luck to my opponent and a pre thank you for the voting that is to come.

Avatar image for xzone
#112 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for xzone
#113 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

xZone, you introduced about 20 new arguments and feats into your closing argument. You provided your battle strategy in your final closing argument with 3 scenarios. Seems immensely unfair to me. I mentioned that in my closing statement that it wouldn't be fair to bring up brand new arguments and at this point it was too late for you to bring up any actual battle plan in your closing argument. You made sure I couldnt respond to your actual battle scenario and what Thor would do, and also introduced brand new feats after my responses were done?

Whatever at this point. I hope voters understand that you aren't supposed to do that in CAVs and that you need to have your strategy fully known to the opponent prior to the final statements.

Thanks for reading everyone, good luck to my opponent and a pre thank you for the voting that is to come.

I literally had the same strategy the entire time, and that’s obvious. Those scenarios I gave were both responses to your battle plan and cementing the plan I had all along

Bottom line is it’s up to the voters here

X

Online
Avatar image for darthvaderrocks
#114 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

So I just say who I think won the battle?

Avatar image for xzone
#115 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthvaderrocks: Do you mean character or debater? Basically, you tell us who you believe defended their character better, not necessarily who you think would win

X

Online
Avatar image for kryptonianpride
#116 Posted by kryptonianpride (1551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthvaderrocks: Vote is based on who argued better in your opinion, and why :)

Avatar image for xzone
#117 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for xzone
#119 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for votes

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#120 Edited by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for darthvaderrocks
#121 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

@kryptonianpride: @xzone:

Well personally I believe xzone won the debate. I thought there were less flaws in his argument than kryptonianpride (no offense btw). And I do believe there was some misinterpretations about some of Strange feats as him "holding down Thanos" and him "tanking Thanos kicks" and whatnot (I do think most people misinterpret that Titan fight anyway). But even with that kryptonianpride did provide some good arguments as to how Strange could block Thor's lightning even if I do ultimately disagree.

Good job to both tho.

Avatar image for ourmanuel
#122 Edited by ourmanuel (8167 posts) - - Show Bio

I’ll vote when I have time to make a proper explanation later today

Avatar image for xzone
#123 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for xzone
#124 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump again for votes

X

Online
Avatar image for syntix
#125 Posted by Syntix (277 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm giving it to kryptonian. Dr. Strange is just too versatile.

Avatar image for xzone
#126 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@syntix: Vote on which Debater represented their character better, not on which character you believe would win

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#127 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for syntix
#128 Posted by Syntix (277 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: i did, Kryptonian convinced me that Dr. Strange can pull this off.

Avatar image for xzone
#129 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@syntix: Ah, alright, just wanted to make sure you understood, thanks for voting

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#130 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for xzone
#131 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for lan_fan
#132 Posted by Lan_Fan (12666 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: I'll read it after lunch.

Avatar image for xzone
#133 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan said:

@xzone: I'll read it after lunch.

Alrighty, sorry again for the late tag, I’m on mobile atm

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#134 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Online
Avatar image for einefaust
#135 Posted by EineFaust (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@syntix said:

i'm giving it to kryptonian. Dr. Strange is just too versatile.

Avatar image for thanosii
#136 Posted by thanosii (3048 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting xzone. Krypto arguments where based on lowball so much it became painful to read. He also misinterpreted plenty feats such as Ironman moving when it was an Ultron bot or Strange in astral form being faster than lightning when The Ancient one clearly stated she was stretching out her death. Or the taser being electrical when directors stated it depowers Thor etc.

The point of a CAV is to debate how your character wins not to discredit established feats by throwing context out the window

Avatar image for empressofdread
#137 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11966 posts) - - Show Bio

It will take a lot of time for me to vote.

Avatar image for lan_fan
#138 Edited by Lan_Fan (12666 posts) - - Show Bio

@kryptonianpride: @xzone: I'm voting for Xzone. This battle could go either way, but Thor takes the majority. I feel like most of Kryptonianpride's arguments are out of context, especially regarding Thanos and Dormammu. Especially when Thor also has the exact same out of context feats like this.

  • I'm also not convinced that Strange can react to Thor's lightning. Regular energy beams from power gem aren't lightning speed, simply no proof as stated by Xzone. Strange is toasted here for sure. Lightning strike is Thor's go to move.
  • The astral plane argument could've worked work if Krypto had just shown Strange affecting people in real world in this state, but even then where was this OP ability against Thanos? This form would just waste time as Thor would be attacking Strange's real body.
  • Crimson band could restrain Thor if Strange didn't get one-shotted before that, but as stated by Xzone, they only restrained Thanos because it kept him from clenching his hand, where as Thor could activate his lightning cloak and summon lightning strike at will.
  • The only way Strange can win here if he decides to chop off Thor's limbs with teleportation, but Strange doesn't really do this. He did it once unintentionally. You could argue that this is bloodlusted/moral off, but technically Thor could do the same thing with bifrost. Still, it's obviously more likely that Thor would start the fight with his lightning attacks, than Strange immediately chopping of limbs, or Thor for that matters. Since Comic Vine battle is about who would win the majority out of 10, I'm gonna go with the likeliest case.

Props to Kryptonianpride for making this one-sided battle a close call. Especially considering Xzone has much much more experience debating MCU. Some of Kryptonianpride's arguments could be swatted away easily, because they were debunked long ago, making them kinda seem unnecessary to the debate. With more experience, I believe Kryptonianpride can be an awesome debater.

Sidenote: This debate was hard to read. Both sides should work on their formatting. Also, take your time in CaVs. These posts seem very rushed.

Avatar image for megafanflash
#139 Edited by Megafanflash (680 posts) - - Show Bio

I think both did a really good job, and I might even prefer the setup @kryptonianpride did slightly more. He did a really clean and well thought out opener using the most relevant and impressive feats for Strange. That being said, my vote goes to @xzone for the convincing me how the different scenarios would play out. You two might want to discuss if you think any of this went down unfairly etc, but it is up to you guys.

My vote is for XZone.

Thanks for a nice debate.

Sidenote: This does not mean which character I personally think would win, only who won the debate/convinced me with arguments.

Avatar image for ready_4_madness
#140 Edited by Ready_4_Madness (14265 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes for @kryptonianpride because represented Strange as the more versatile guy. @xzone you done a good job countering though.

Online
Avatar image for bayman007
#141 Edited by Bayman007 (957 posts) - - Show Bio

I missed this one

Online
Avatar image for kalkent
#142 Posted by KalKent (1611 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the votes for kryptonian make no sense. I will vote when I have the time.

Avatar image for xzone
#143 Edited by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan: @megafanflash: @thanosii:

Thanks for the votes guys, means a ton to me

Edit: Also, lan, you said you took away from this exactly what I was trying to display and show in this debate, so I’m happy those were clear

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#144 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

I just would like to remind everyone being versatile does not=win. Both these characters are versatile and you shouldn’t be voting on who you think wins, but on who represented their character better.

X

Online
Avatar image for xzone
#145 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan: About the formatting, I must be honest I rushed a little when doing some of the counters (so the formatting may have been a tad off) thanks for the advice

X

Online
Avatar image for amcu
#146 Edited by Amcu (15415 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Thanks for the tag! I'll try and read through this some time today.

Avatar image for xzone
#147 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for xzone
#148 Edited by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for mr_shazam0920
#149 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (3205 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to Xzone.

He convinced that Thor is too durable to be put down by Strange, and has the means to attack Strange with variety and speed.

Kryptonian demonstrated the versatility of Dr Strange and his defensive capabilities, but didn’t convince me that he can put someone of Thor’s durability out.

Great job guys.

Avatar image for xzone
#150 Posted by xZone (9532 posts) - - Show Bio
Online