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#52 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#54 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, I love the last part of that durability section with that gif implying universal stormbreaker😂

Nice work

I didn't imply a universal Stormbreaker. All I did was take it to the logical conclusion he was using. He said DS blocked the power stone so he must be able to block Thor's attacks, and I showed him where that leads.

X

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#56 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: yeah I know

So you mean it was funny the way I explained it? Sorry, it's hard to catch sarcasm online lol

X

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#57 Posted by ourmanuel (10429 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: yeah the way you flipped his logic back on him with that gif.

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#58 Posted by from_beyond (863 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: Ah ok, yeah I did enjoy putting that bit of sass in 😂😜

X

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#60 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio
Thor survives the heat/energy of a star

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#62 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v.

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#63 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#64 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone:Did I say anything wrong? I just wanted an excuse to use that gif lol.

Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of things wrong with Thor being Star level. But I won't derail your CAV thread with it.

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#65 Edited by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: You were mocking the statement, obviously. Also, I didn’t claim Thor was “star level” (not quite sure what you mean there), but that he could survive the heat/energy of a star for a period of time. He obviously can’t tank it or the actual force of a star, and I’ve never claimed that.

Edit: I just wanted to make clear I’m not saying Thor is “star level” or anything fanboyish. I’m just showing that he was able to survive the energy for a short amount of time

X

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#66 Posted by ourmanuel (10429 posts) - - Show Bio
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#67 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd love to vote on this, but I don't trust myself to give an unbiased vote on this one so I'll refraon. Tag after every post though.

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#70 Posted by Laiks Stake (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#71 Edited by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@drpepperman: I certainly appreciate the honesty, but I personally don’t mind you voting and whichever way you lean I feel it’s up to @kryptonianpride: or myself to convince you otherwise. If he doesn’t mind you voting I don’t, but that’s up to him

X

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#72 Posted by ourmanuel (10429 posts) - - Show Bio
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#73 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: All fun and games aside, let’s not derail this CaV

X

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#74 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio
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#75 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: maybe if I have time, when it opens for votes, I'll read through everything and vote, but if you or KP think I'm being too biased (because let's be honest, no CaV vote has ever had no bias) you don't have to count it.

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#76 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: maybe if I have time, when it opens for votes, I'll read through everything and vote, but if you or KP think I'm being too biased (because let's be honest, no CaV vote has ever had no bias) you don't have to count it.

Fair enough. Thanks for reading

X

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#77 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: @ourmanuel:I know its fun to joke around, but please don't continue to derail the CaV. Thanks for reading guys

X

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#78 Posted by deactivated-5c63f773eaecf (1549 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone Sure, three is good. Excluding the intro.

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#79 Edited by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#80 Edited by deactivated-5c63f773eaecf (1549 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Rebuttals

"Well, that's a pretty silly set of statements. First, that's not DS tanking the infinity gauntlet blasts, thats him blocking an unquantifiable blast with the mirror dimension. Second, we have no idea how fast that blast is. What you said above has literally nothing to do with DS surviving/reacting to lightning speed lightning:" - xZone

You said Dr. Strange couldn't handle Lightning and I showed you he could with that gif. Your argument is saying that event didn't happen but you have video proof of it. Evading how he dodged and blocked it is not at all relevant. He not only survived it, but he deflected Infinity Gauntlet Lightning. I am not sure what your argument here is?

Dr. Strange was unbothered by INFINITY GAUNTLET LIGHTNING. The question of if Strange can handle, dodge and deflect Thor's lightning is answered. He can. Strange handled and reacted to significantly more powerful lightning blasts. That is thoroughly shown and proven.

So an unquantifiable beam from the IG is now proof that DS can both react to and physically tank lightning? Let alone Thor's lightning?

Take a look at the bodies of the zombie skeletons that Thor hits with his lightning. Their bodies turn to dust. Their armor is fully intact. If you want quantifiable and direct proof of toughness, Thor's lightning is not capable of destroying ancient Asgardian armor. And also, not powerful enough to even slightly affect the two others running toward the lightning. For quantifiability, his lightning blasts aren't special and you have direct proof of it there in your own gif.

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In your gif, his casual lightning can't blow down skeletons or break their armor. Thanos' Lightning can destroy a huge floating boulder

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In the MCU, Thanos is 98 inches tall, or 8.1ft tall. Look at the size of that rock. That Rock is 56ft x 24 ft, roughly. And his lightning burrows right through it.

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Since you didn't get it the first time, here it is again. Iron-man was completely frozen while Thor was clearly moving. Look more closely

No dude. YOU look more closely. You can see Iron man moving his arm and opening his hand at the same speed Thor is. I am not sure what you are getting at here, but Iron Man is 100% clearly moving at the same speed as Thor. He is not frozen at all.

I've cropped it so users dont get confused. Iron Man's arms and hands go from closed to open and Thor's hammer travels maybe half a foot. Iron Man is moving just as fast as Thor is. 100% debunked.

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Rapid Fire Debunks

"First off, I was hoping we would stay away from silly low-balling in this CaV, but I can see that isn't the case. Second, when Thor fought Stark he was weakened by Dark Magic, and it's not like he was going all out."

- No he wasn't. In Avengers 1 there were no magic users. Who weakened Thor in that scene when he was battered around by Iron Man? Thor came out of nowhere and immediately attacked the jet everyone was standing in. Then Iron Man jumped out and dive bombed Thor. He wasn't weakened at all.

Third, well, Thor did react to the boulder

- Yea, his reaction was HOLLLLLLYYYYYY AIEEEEEEE AHHHHH OWWWWWWWW, I can hardly stand up after that. I found a deleted scene of what Thor looked like right when the boulder smacked him in the face. (Im kidding)

Fourth, you're low-balling and its not even accurate. The net doesn't have a quantified speed, so to say "oh look Thor couldn't react to this" when you don't even know how fast the object is seriously ignorant and dishonest

- It actually does. He couldn't react to Iron Man's blasts or his physical strikes without being blown away. That is what happened dude. Thor is not that fast. And you can't quantify any of Thor's speeds feats. I can give you calculations for Iron Man's speed if you'd like. But, I really didn't want to get into the math of it. If you want it, I will do that in the 2nd counter next for me.

Your argument here is that Thor's feats aren't feats. And that his speed isn't speed. And that his strength isn't strength. What we see in the movie is not what happened. I disagree and I think voters will too. Those are the feats for Thor and you've not given a reason why we should not accept the battle with stark. Prove he wasn't going all out. My proof is that he required Loki and was doing anything he needed to get him from Iron Man and Cap. He was going all out. So it's on you to provide a reason why he wouldn't be going all out.

The Super Sonic Argument

You also have no proof that Malekith was moving super sonic. He just blew off debris off himself. Simple as that. Here is the proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1vAxMwlFw

1. Malekith throws energy at Thor using the same looking type of power he did in your gif. No sonic boom. Right at the start of the video. Windows are in tact where Jane and Selvig are near by. No supersonic speed.

2. Immediately he does it again. Still no windows broken a few dozen feet away.

3. A third time, which is your gif. Still no broken windows.

4. 1:56 in the video, Malekith does it again right next to cars, no broken windows.

5. 2:01 Thor using Mjolnir to strike Malekith, no broken windows from super sonic speed. Because he wasn't moving at that speed.

6. 2:20, windows break from Thor Mjolnir Strike

This is debunked now. Neither of them were moving at speeds fast enough to make sonic blasts.

Thor Was Weak To Dark Magic?

Where was it ever stated he has a direct weakness to it? Your opinion on this isn't really valid. :) Nowhere in the script or any statements anywhere does it stay Thor is weak to it. He is weak to boulders too. Seems unfair to say he is weak to boulders right? Where is the proof that anyone said in Thor The Dark World, or anywhere else, that he is weak to Dark Magic?

"Lowballing, pre-amp, feat for Ultron, and it's not like Thor was seriously hurt. About 5 minutes later he tanks a city exploding in his face"

Thor is durable to energy blasts and weak to physical trauma. His impact resistance is extremely low, boulders hurt him. Rocks falling on him harm him. Hulk punches harm him. Large electrical energy based blasts do not harm him so much. That is part of his power set. You are confusing the two as if they are the same. He was brutalized by Thanos and the Hulk. He was battered around repeatedly by Iron Man. Physical striking is not the same as energy impact resistance.

A boulder Hurt Thor. Here is that calculation. And it still isn't anywhere near what Stranges Shields could handle.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mcu-kurse-boulder-feat-1827540/?page=1/

He calculated it at 533 tons of force. Are you saying that a 8 meter long boulder hits harder than a massive space ship falling from orbit? Really? I'm sorry, but that just isn't valid. The ship feat for Strange is thousands of times what Thor could handle upon impact.

"Thor > IG Thanos"

Wrong. Thanos literally just stood there and tried to fire energy at a weapon he didn't know anything about and it went right through his energy and stabbed him with a weapon that was intended to defeat the Infinity Gauntlet. This isn't at all a fair assessment when Etiri specifically made the weapon to beat it. Thor by himself wasn't enough...that was the entire reason why he had to go there and get a new hammer. Lol. You defeated yourself on that one.

"No other way to put this but this is all ridiculous. Thor doesn't need to be>>Dormammu because Dormammu stomped Strange. Thor did better against Thanos than DS did, but that's still a flawed way of scaling"

Actually yes it does. You are saying that Thor > Infinity Gauntlet when the core of the story in the movie was Thor was not strong enough to do it and needed a specific weapon to get it done, taking a massive chance at Hurling the axe at Thanos who just stood there in one spot because he was overconfident and the Axe SLOWLY made its way to Thanos' chest.

"These rapid teleports were in DS own house, and he has never done this anywhere outside of his own home. Also, what does teleporting even do to Thor?"

He brutalized Thor with teleporting so fast that Thor couldn't even see that he teleported away. I'll leave it up to voters to decide if he cannot teleport outside of the Sanctum. That is a serious stretch of a theory, my friend. Can counter that with your own theory.

You said Strange can't use certain things outside of his home. Ok, so show me Thor using stormbreaker outside of Wakanda. Show me Thor blitzing anything in new york. You cant. Because the counter there is absurd. Of course Strange can teleport out of his house. Your argument here is completely invalid.

Some more Dr. Strange goodies

Strength

The Cloak of Levitation is so physically powerful, that the strongest being in the entire universe cannot get it off. If that wraps around Thor, the fight is over. Thor is nowhere near as physically strong as Thanos using the Power gem and infinity gauntlet. Even the cloak is far superior to Thor. The Cloak can fight on its own too and by itself has feats that scrub Thor in physical strength.

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Here, the Crimson Bands actually cause pain and immense struggle for Thanos.

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Moreover, Dr. Strange was flying in the air and his bands + his hovering in the sky was physically stronger than The Infinity Gauntlet. Here, Thanos cannot bend his arm. He is too weak to handle the Crimson Bands which are physically coming out of Dr. Strange flying in the sky above him. Thanos couldn't even yank him down. And that is the hand with the Gauntlet on it. The Crimson Bands could not be transmuted to bubbles, or anything else. The Infinity Gauntlet and all its power could not stop the Bands at all.

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Do you want to talk about physical strength? Here is Dr. Strange manhandling someone using the Infinity Gauntlet and the Power Gem...BARE HANDED. That is how physically strong Strange actually is. He is strong enough to restrain Thanos with physicality. Thor stands NO CHANCE in physical 1v1 if Strange can do this.

On one side, Iron Man in advanced armor + advanced iron spider armor + magnetic alien tech. On the other side arm, just Strange. Thor gets manhandled by Strange even in physical 1v1, no magic needed. Strange is a monster.

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Astral Projection

You are incorrect about Stranges astral fighting. When he multiplied himself, he was in Astral form and was pushed back into his body. This is proof that Strange cannot only copy himself once and all of them can use the Astral form but makes lightning look snail pace, but he can make dozens of copies that are all capable of restraining the Infinity Gauntlet. Here is proof.

Here, Strange invokes many versions of himself and each fire off attacks to restrain him.

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Immediately following, you see that all of those were astral projections fighting Thanos and pushed back into the primary body of Strange. He is going to roast Thor alive with 20+ copies of himself each with the power to cast the Crimson bands. Remember, in Astral form, he is absurdly fast. And lightning looks slow.

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Strange is going to open a portal on Thor's neck and behind him in super speed. Another is going to open a portal on his arms and cut them off. Then one will take his face off..,Then one will take his legs off..and he will be a rolling, legless, faceless thing rolling down the street, like a turd in the wind (teehee)

Final Statements on this Rebuttal

You are generalizing Thor here with a massive city buster, but then you show that Hulk physical strikes him almost to death without breaking the ground under him. I need your argument on this.

City Buster energy blast in one gif. Hulk striking him to death in another, and boulders impacting him almost into unconsciousness.

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This doesn't make sense. Your argument is all over the place and not consistent. Thor cannot handle strikes that can make small craters in the ground. Dr. Strange handles cosmic beings energy blasts that melt through planetoids. Sorry dude but Dormammu hits a lot harder than Thor in feats. And Dr. Strange could block them all.

Thanos with the Gauntlet hits a lot harder than Thor and Hulk. Thanos by himself Destroyed Hulk in physical striking. Completely obliterated. And Dr. Strange tanks Thanos with the power gem!

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Where is Thor blitzing anything? He couldn't blitz hulk. He couldn't blitz Iron Man. He couldn't blitz Malekith. He couldn't blitz thanos either and stood in one spot and tossed Stormbreaker, which slowly lobbed itself into Thanos's energy blast.

The Strange Debate

You still haven't addressed how fast Strange is in astral form. Show me where Thor can even fight someone in Astral form. I showed you that Strange multiplied himself into many versions using the Astral form. So how does Thor handle that? Where are your feats of Thor handling Astral form attacks that are so fast that Lightning looks like a turtle?

I showed you that Thor gets murderstomped by Hulk and Thanos in physical striking and that Dr. Strange tanks Thanos physical striking without much of an issue. And is also physically strong enough to hold down one of his arms by himself!

I showed you that Strange can teleport so fast that Thor can't understand what is happening and is made a fool by. And your counter was he can't do that outside of the Sanctum.

I showed you that Dr. Strange already knows everything about Asgardians. Show me Thor doing the same for Wizards. Where is Thor's prep work here? Strange comes into the battle fully prepped on Asgardians and Thor has no clue how to fight Strange because he doesn't know anything about Strange.

I showed you that Strange can open portals up and BFR Thor anywhere he wants. Right to Dormammu. Right to a black hole maybe. You said Nah. Well, sorry, but yes. He already did it...to both Loki and Thor at the same time.

Strange will win this. The physical strength doesn't matter. And with how slow Stormbreaker is tossed, Dr. Strange can just block it with the mirror dimension and lock it there. Effectively ending the usefulness of it because Thanos lightning travels a lot faster than Stormbreaker does.

Thor is beaten in every single way, shape, and form with actual on panel feats and statements. One of your arguments was that Thor is weak to Dark Magic. Well...oh thank goodness thor isn't fighting the strongest magical user in the universe...oh...wait...hmm. :)

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#82 Edited by ourmanuel (10429 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn, that was incredibly good

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#83 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1074 posts) - - Show Bio
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#84 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15349 posts) - - Show Bio
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#85 Edited by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

god of Thunder Counters: V2

@kryptonianpride said:

Rebuttals

"Well, that's a pretty silly set of statements. First, that's not DS tanking the infinity gauntlet blasts, thats him blocking an unquantifiable blast with the mirror dimension. Second, we have no idea how fast that blast is. What you said above has literally nothing to do with DS surviving/reacting to lightning speed lightning:" - xZone

You said Dr. Strange couldn't handle Lightning and I showed you he could with that gif. Your argument is saying that event didn't happen but you have video proof of it. Evading how he dodged and blocked it is not at all relevant. He not only survived it, but he deflected Infinity Gauntlet Lightning. I am not sure what your argument here is?

Dr. Strange was unbothered by INFINITY GAUNTLET LIGHTNING. The question of if Strange can handle, dodge and deflect Thor's lightning is answered. He can. Strange handled and reacted to significantly more powerful lightning blasts. That is thoroughly shown and proven.

No, no you didn't. I made the argument that Thor could hit DS with lightning speed lightning before DS could defend. You then showed a gif of DS blocking an attack from the power stone. I am not denying that DS can block lightning if he could react to it, but in order for him to do that you have to prove he has the reaction speeds to do so. In order to do that you have to prove the IG beam was as fast as lightning which you can't because it is unquantifiable. The blast is also unquantifiable, so that adds literally nothing to the argument. But, if you wanna use this idiotic scaling again im more than happy to bring out the old gifs...

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So an unquantifiable beam from the IG is now proof that DS can both react to and physically tank lightning? Let alone Thor's lightning?

Take a look at the bodies of the zombie skeletons that Thor hits with his lightning. Their bodies turn to dust. Their armor is fully intact. If you want quantifiable and direct proof of toughness, Thor's lightning is not capable of destroying ancient Asgardian armor. And also, not powerful enough to even slightly affect the two others running toward the lightning. For quantifiability, his lightning blasts aren't special and you have direct proof of it there in your own gif.

No, you are SO far off base here. Normal lightning will kill DS if he's not blocking. All I've been talking about this entire time is that DS actual durability can not withstand normal lightning, and due to that fact, and the fact that this lightning is lightning speed, hence DS can't react to it, he can be one shot. Sure, if he could react he could block it with the mirror dimension, but he can't react

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In your gif, his casual lightning can't blow down skeletons or break their armor. Thanos' Lightning can destroy a huge floating boulder

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In the MCU, Thanos is 98 inches tall, or 8.1ft tall. Look at the size of that rock. That Rock is 56ft x 24 ft, roughly. And his lightning burrows right through it.

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Thor's lightning has laughably better feats than that, like where he destroyed a city block level of Jotunhiem. The fact is that DS can't react to any lightning Thor calls down from the sky because it is 1/3 the speed of light...

Since you didn't get it the first time, here it is again. Iron-man was completely frozen while Thor was clearly moving. Look more closely

No dude. YOU look more closely. You can see Iron man moving his arm and opening his hand at the same speed Thor is. I am not sure what you are getting at here, but Iron Man is 100% clearly moving at the same speed as Thor. He is not frozen at all.

I've cropped it so users dont get confused. Iron Man's arms and hands go from closed to open and Thor's hammer travels maybe half a foot. Iron Man is moving just as fast as Thor is. 100% debunked.

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I don't even see Iron-man in that gif. Are you talking about the Ultron bot? Stark and Cap are clearly frozen, but ill leave that up to the readers

Rapid Fire Debunks

"First off, I was hoping we would stay away from silly low-balling in this CaV, but I can see that isn't the case. Second, when Thor fought Stark he was weakened by Dark Magic, and it's not like he was going all out."

- No he wasn't. In Avengers 1 there were no magic users. Who weakened Thor in that scene when he was battered around by Iron Man? Thor came out of nowhere and immediately attacked the jet everyone was standing in. Then Iron Man jumped out and dive bombed Thor. He wasn't weakened at all.

You were saying?
You were saying?

Third, well, Thor did react to the boulder

- Yea, his reaction was HOLLLLLLYYYYYY AIEEEEEEE AHHHHH OWWWWWWWW, I can hardly stand up after that. I found a deleted scene of what Thor looked like right when the boulder smacked him in the face. (Im kidding)

Not a deleted scene, but there you go. You can clearly see Thor braces/Reacts
Not a deleted scene, but there you go. You can clearly see Thor braces/Reacts

Fourth, you're low-balling and its not even accurate. The net doesn't have a quantified speed, so to say "oh look Thor couldn't react to this" when you don't even know how fast the object is seriously ignorant and dishonest

- It actually does. He couldn't react to Iron Man's blasts or his physical strikes without being blown away. That is what happened dude. Thor is not that fast. And you can't quantify any of Thor's speeds feats. I can give you calculations for Iron Man's speed if you'd like. But, I really didn't want to get into the math of it. If you want it, I will do that in the 2nd counter next for me.

You totally skipped what I called you out on. You said Thor was slow because he couldn't react to a net, and I said you can't quantify that speed, then you just glossed over it because you were wrong.

Quantify Iron-man's repulser beams? Also, when has he not reacted to them? He reacted to Ultron bot beams

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Your argument here is that Thor's feats aren't feats. And that his speed isn't speed. And that his strength isn't strength. What we see in the movie is not what happened. I disagree and I think voters will too. Those are the feats for Thor and you've not given a reason why we should not accept the battle with stark. Prove he wasn't going all out. My proof is that he required Loki and was doing anything he needed to get him from Iron Man and Cap. He was going all out. So it's on you to provide a reason why he wouldn't be going all out.

(I'm underlining this so its obvious xZone is writing this) I don't even understand what you mean, you're the one saying Thor's speed feats are indeed speed feats

Here here easily reacts to Hela's blades which are calced at around mach one
Here here easily reacts to Hela's blades which are calced at around mach one

Here he completely outpaces the Hulk with ease
Here he completely outpaces the Hulk with ease

Here is the link to my Thor Speed respect thread so everyone can see his speed feats broken down

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mcu-thor-speed-respect-thread-1981485/

The Super Sonic Argument

You also have no proof that Malekith was moving super sonic. He just blew off debris off himself. Simple as that. Here is the proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1vAxMwlFw

1. Malekith throws energy at Thor using the same looking type of power he did in your gif. No sonic boom. Right at the start of the video. Windows are in tact where Jane and Selvig are near by. No supersonic speed.

2. Immediately he does it again. Still no windows broken a few dozen feet away.

3. A third time, which is your gif. Still no broken windows.

4. 1:56 in the video, Malekith does it again right next to cars, no broken windows.

5. 2:01 Thor using Mjolnir to strike Malekith, no broken windows from super sonic speed. Because he wasn't moving at that speed.

6. 2:20, windows break from Thor Mjolnir Strike

This is debunked now. Neither of them were moving at speeds fast enough to make sonic blasts.

At this point i'm gonna let the readers decide because you are obviously wrong, but you're not gonna admit it

Thor Was Weak To Dark Magic?

Where was it ever stated he has a direct weakness to it? Your opinion on this isn't really valid. :) Nowhere in the script or any statements anywhere does it stay Thor is weak to it. He is weak to boulders too. Seems unfair to say he is weak to boulders right? Where is the proof that anyone said in Thor The Dark World, or anywhere else, that he is weak to Dark Magic?

I posted it above, but here it is again

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"Lowballing, pre-amp, feat for Ultron, and it's not like Thor was seriously hurt. About 5 minutes later he tanks a city exploding in his face"

Thor is durable to energy blasts and weak to physical trauma. His impact resistance is extremely low, boulders hurt him. Rocks falling on him harm him. Hulk punches harm him. Large electrical energy based blasts do not harm him so much. That is part of his power set. You are confusing the two as if they are the same. He was brutalized by Thanos and the Hulk. He was battered around repeatedly by Iron Man. Physical striking is not the same as energy impact resistance.

This is all just so obviously untrue all I can do is show the real evidence and let people see it for themselves

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A boulder Hurt Thor. Here is that calculation. And it still isn't anywhere near what Stranges Shields could handle.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mcu-kurse-boulder-feat-1827540/?page=1/

He calculated it at 533 tons of force. Are you saying that a 8 meter long boulder hits harder than a massive space ship falling from orbit? Really? I'm sorry, but that just isn't valid. The ship feat for Strange is thousands of times what Thor could handle upon impact.

What? How would you even calc that ship feat.. The ship took most of the impact and was totally destroyed...

"Thor > IG Thanos"

Wrong. Thanos literally just stood there and tried to fire energy at a weapon he didn't know anything about and it went right through his energy and stabbed him with a weapon that was intended to defeat the Infinity Gauntlet. This isn't at all a fair assessment when Etiri specifically made the weapon to beat it. Thor by himself wasn't enough...that was the entire reason why he had to go there and get a new hammer. Lol. You defeated yourself on that one.

In reality you are the one who defeated yourself by bringing up the IG beam. You'e one bit of evidence for DS to stop Thor's attacks was from a beam of the IG. Hmm, It sounds like you're contradicting yourself here. If I understand it correctly, the IG beam is only quantifiable and powerful when it attacks DS.

"No other way to put this but this is all ridiculous. Thor doesn't need to be>>Dormammu because Dormammu stomped Strange. Thor did better against Thanos than DS did, but that's still a flawed way of scaling"

Actually yes it does. You are saying that Thor > Infinity Gauntlet when the core of the story in the movie was Thor was not strong enough to do it and needed a specific weapon to get it done, taking a massive chance at Hurling the axe at Thanos who just stood there in one spot because he was overconfident and the Axe SLOWLY made its way to Thanos' chest.

I never said Thor was>>the IG. I said if you go to the logical conclusion of measuring the IG beam Thor's is a better feat than for DS. Also, why again does Thor have to be>Dormammu? lmao

"These rapid teleports were in DS own house, and he has never done this anywhere outside of his own home. Also, what does teleporting even do to Thor?"

He brutalized Thor with teleporting so fast that Thor couldn't even see that he teleported away. I'll leave it up to voters to decide if he cannot teleport outside of the Sanctum. That is a serious stretch of a theory, my friend. Can counter that with your own theory.

You said Strange can't use certain things outside of his home. Ok, so show me Thor using stormbreaker outside of Wakanda. Show me Thor blitzing anything in new york. You cant. Because the counter there is absurd. Of course Strange can teleport out of his house. Your argument here is completely invalid.

Um.... No...Thor can clearly use SB elsewhere because he used it to teleport to Wakanda from the forge, but more importantly, your analogy is flawed because Thor has never failed to use these abilities in a fight where he needed to. Take his fight with Ebony Maw for example. If he could just teleport or teleport others at the drop of a hat, why didn't he? Why did he even bother using a sling ring for Spider-man against Thanos? or heck, why does he ever use a sling ring? It's obvious here, but you're missing it

Some more Dr. Strange goodies

Strength

The Cloak of Levitation is so physically powerful, that the strongest being in the entire universe cannot get it off. If that wraps around Thor, the fight is over. Thor is nowhere near as physically strong as Thanos using the Power gem and infinity gauntlet. Even the cloak is far superior to Thor. The Cloak can fight on its own too and by itself has feats that scrub Thor in physical strength.

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Here, the Crimson Bands actually cause pain and immense struggle for Thanos.

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Moreover, Dr. Strange was flying in the air and his bands + his hovering in the sky was physically stronger than The Infinity Gauntlet. Here, Thanos cannot bend his arm. He is too weak to handle the Crimson Bands which are physically coming out of Dr. Strange flying in the sky above him. Thanos couldn't even yank him down. And that is the hand with the Gauntlet on it. The Crimson Bands could not be transmuted to bubbles, or anything else. The Infinity Gauntlet and all its power could not stop the Bands at all.

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This bit you're being misleading. The whole point of this scene was keeping Thanos from using the IG, so yes its impressive he could restrain Thanos, but thanos was not using the IG because he couldn't

Do you want to talk about physical strength? Here is Dr. Strange manhandling someone using the Infinity Gauntlet and the Power Gem...BARE HANDED. That is how physically strong Strange actually is. He is strong enough to restrain Thanos with physicality. Thor stands NO CHANCE in physical 1v1 if Strange can do this.

On one side, Iron Man in advanced armor + advanced iron spider armor + magnetic alien tech. On the other side arm, just Strange. Thor gets manhandled by Strange even in physical 1v1, no magic needed. Strange is a monster.

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So because he can restrain one hand using a weapon of unknown power this now equates to stomping Thor? Everyone knows thats incorrect, because restraining one arm is very different from his entire body. Also, this image is crazy misleading... Thanos was being put to sleep AND star lord's tech was holding the same arm, something spider-man without star lord's tech was doing on the other arm

Astral Projection

You are incorrect about Stranges astral fighting. When he multiplied himself, he was in Astral form and was pushed back into his body. This is proof that Strange cannot only copy himself once and all of them can use the Astral form but makes lightning look snail pace, but he can make dozens of copies that are all capable of restraining the Infinity Gauntlet. Here is proof.

Here, Strange invokes many versions of himself and each fire off attacks to restrain him.

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Immediately following, you see that all of those were astral projections fighting Thanos and pushed back into the primary body of Strange. He is going to roast Thor alive with 20+ copies of himself each with the power to cast the Crimson bands. Remember, in Astral form, he is absurdly fast. And lightning looks slow.

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Strange is going to open a portal on Thor's neck and behind him in super speed. Another is going to open a portal on his arms and cut them off. Then one will take his face off..,Then one will take his legs off..and he will be a rolling, legless, faceless thing rolling down the street, like a turd in the wind (teehee)

Problem with this is that Strange was only seeing lightning going slowly while he was only in his astral state (known as the astral plane) This means DS when using his physical body has not shown that ability, nice try tho

Final Statements on this Rebuttal

You are generalizing Thor here with a massive city buster, but then you show that Hulk physical strikes him almost to death without breaking the ground under him. I need your argument on this.

City Buster energy blast in one gif. Hulk striking him to death in another, and boulders impacting him almost into unconsciousness.

But Thor no-sold these hits... So, I don't see how that matters?

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This doesn't make sense. Your argument is all over the place and not consistent. Thor cannot handle strikes that can make small craters in the ground. Dr. Strange handles cosmic beings energy blasts that melt through planetoids. Sorry dude but Dormammu hits a lot harder than Thor in feats. And Dr. Strange could block them all.

I genuinely want to know if you read what you write. How in the world is my argument all over the place? DS can't put Thor down and Thor can put DS down, simple as that.

Thor can't handle these strikes? dude he freaking no-sold those wtf are you talking about? It's clear as day

What in the world dude DS did not block Dormammu's attacks... He was vaporized by them. Why do you think he had to have the time loop? Here is just one example:

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Thanos with the Gauntlet hits a lot harder than Thor and Hulk. Thanos by himself Destroyed Hulk in physical striking. Completely obliterated. And Dr. Strange tanks Thanos with the power gem!

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Again, if you want to bring up "oh the power gem and DS blocked it" Thor blocked the entire IG blast. Now im not saying thats quantifiable or impressive, because I don't think it is, but if that is the logic you want to use ill beat you at your own game

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Where is Thor blitzing anything? He couldn't blitz hulk. He couldn't blitz Iron Man. He couldn't blitz Malekith. He couldn't blitz thanos either and stood in one spot and tossed Stormbreaker, which slowly lobbed itself into Thanos's energy blast.

Couldn't blitz Hulk?
Couldn't blitz Hulk?

Thor only fought Stark once and that is while he was weakened, but not blitzing Stark is not un-impressive, the dude has mach 4.5 speed reaction times
Thor only fought Stark once and that is while he was weakened, but not blitzing Stark is not un-impressive, the dude has mach 4.5 speed reaction times
Couldn't blitz Malekith?
Couldn't blitz Malekith?

You're obviously wrong here, so just concede

The Strange Debate

You still haven't addressed how fast Strange is in astral form. Show me where Thor can even fight someone in Astral form. I showed you that Strange multiplied himself into many versions using the Astral form. So how does Thor handle that? Where are your feats of Thor handling Astral form attacks that are so fast that Lightning looks like a turtle?

Show me Strange fighting someone without his physical body (besides the other magic user who was also in astral form),he has never done it. But what we do know Is that Strange's astral body is affected by what happens to his physical body (when DS's girl friend (can't remember her name lol) hit him with an AED, so Thor will have 0 issue

I showed you that Thor gets murderstomped by Hulk and Thanos in physical striking and that Dr. Strange tanks Thanos physical striking without much of an issue. And is also physically strong enough to hold down one of his arms by himself!

And I disproved that silliness above. Also, I don't know what you mean by Hulk murderstomping Thor.. Thats not what happened on screen

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Heck, we don't even know that Thanos physically (without the power stone) beat Thor, because we never saw the actual fight happen

I showed you that Strange can teleport so fast that Thor can't understand what is happening and is made a fool by. And your counter was he can't do that outside of the Sanctum.

I didn't say he couldn't, I said you couldn't prove he could, and if he could why didn't he in about a million applicable situations I posted above

I showed you that Dr. Strange already knows everything about Asgardians. Show me Thor doing the same for Wizards. Where is Thor's prep work here? Strange comes into the battle fully prepped on Asgardians and Thor has no clue how to fight Strange because he doesn't know anything about Strange.

Weaknesses about Asgardians? Since when? Do asgardians even have a weakness

I showed you that Strange can open portals up and BFR Thor anywhere he wants. Right to Dormammu. Right to a black hole maybe. You said Nah. Well, sorry, but yes. He already did it...to both Loki and Thor at the same time.

As I already showed you, Thor is way too fast for that, but even if DS did BFR him (which he can't win that way because win by death) Thor has the bifrost..

Strange will win this. The physical strength doesn't matter. And with how slow Stormbreaker is tossed, Dr. Strange can just block it with the mirror dimension and lock it there. Effectively ending the usefulness of it because Thanos lightning travels a lot faster than Stormbreaker does.

Quantify Thanos power gem attack speed? I'll quantify Stormbreaker's speed for you though, and since Thor is bloodlusted this is applicable

Thats ground level to space in 2 seconds. Around mach 200. How was DS gonna react to that again? I'll wait for those reaction feats
Thats ground level to space in 2 seconds. Around mach 200. How was DS gonna react to that again? I'll wait for those reaction feats

Thor is beaten in every single way, shape, and form with actual on panel feats and statements. One of your arguments was that Thor is weak to Dark Magic. Well...oh thank goodness thor isn't fighting the strongest magical user in the universe...oh...wait...hmm. :)

Dark Magic Odin used has nothing to do with DS at this moment because we have never seen DS use anything like that. Thor wins this clear cut

Now that I have taken apart your points, I'll re-establish mine

Why Thor can take Doctor Strange down:

Thor can easily blitz the Hulk who can react to mach speed projectiles. That's faster than anything DS has ever reacted to
Thor can easily blitz the Hulk who can react to mach speed projectiles. That's faster than anything DS has ever reacted to
Thor can hit DS with lightning before DS will react, and since Doctor Strange doesn't have any durability feats to survive lightning without blocking it, he will be one shot and the fight is over
Thor can hit DS with lightning before DS will react, and since Doctor Strange doesn't have any durability feats to survive lightning without blocking it, he will be one shot and the fight is over
If for some reason Thor can't blitz Strange, he can always bust a city block around them
If for some reason Thor can't blitz Strange, he can always bust a city block around them
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Another showing of Thor's insane city block level attacks that will one shot DS even if he attempts to blocks them
Another showing of Thor's insane city block level attacks that will one shot DS even if he attempts to blocks them

Why Strange can't kill Thor

Thor survives the heat/energy of a star
Thor survives the heat/energy of a star
Here Thor tanks a city exploding
Here Thor tanks a city exploding
Thor again tanks endless hits from Hulk. DS has never shown this amount of damage output
Thor again tanks endless hits from Hulk. DS has never shown this amount of damage output
Here's why that feat is insane
Here's why that feat is insane

With that said, thanks for reading

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#87 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1074 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: That Mach 200 feat from Mijnoir is insane. Very good rebuttal.

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#88 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: That Mach 200 feat from Mijnoir is insane. Very good rebuttal.

Appreciate it. I was unsure if I needed to edit it (because a few lines my opponent also used bold text) was it easy enough to understand for you? otherwise imma have to reformat the entire thing :'I

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#89 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1074 posts) - - Show Bio
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#90 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone: Nah I understood it.

Awesome. Just wanted to make sure it was clear lol. About the mach 200 feat, I generally don't use it in battle because Thor hasn't used it in obvious combat against nyone but possible QS (even then only mach 3-4), but I think a bloodlusted Thor would be using his full abilities

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#91 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1074 posts) - - Show Bio
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#92 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

Final post each guys, so make sure you say T4V if you want to Vote

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#94 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#95 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

I never asked to be tagged :p

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#96 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#97 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#98 Edited by deactivated-5c63f773eaecf (1549 posts) - - Show Bio
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Final Counters before Closing Statements

The Lightning debate...again? You had gif evidence with your own gif that shows his Lightning cant take out some armor or knock others down.

"No, no you didn't. I made the argument that Thor could hit DS with lightning speed lightning before DS could defend. You then showed a gif of DS blocking an attack from the power stone. I am not denying that DS can block lightning if he could react to it, but in order for him to do that you have to prove he has the reaction speeds to do so. In order to do that you have to prove the IG beam was as fast as lightning which you can't because it is unquantifiable. The blast is also unquantifiable, so that adds literally nothing to the argument. But, if you wanna use this idiotic scaling again im more than happy to bring out the old gifs..."

You are arguing that Thor Lightning is Superior to Infinity Gauntlet lightning and did nothing to prove it. Your statement is absent proof, speed calculations and any proof at all beyond your subjective opinion. I'll leave it up to voters to choose which is more powerful or quick: Thor lightning vs Infinity Gauntlet lightning. Pretty sure people will be choosing infinity gauntlet lightning since the point of the weapon is to be the best there is in existence and has more destructive feats.

You said the Blast is not quantifiable and I showed you that Thor's lightning cant destroy some armor. And that Thanos' lightning shreds giant boulders. Based on feats, Thanos lightning is better in every way and Dr. Strange no sold it.

Stranges reaction speed/Durability

"No, you are SO far off base here. Normal lightning will kill DS if he's not blocking. All I've been talking about this entire time is that DS actual durability can not withstand normal lightning, and due to that fact, and the fact that this lightning is lightning speed, hence DS can't react to it, he can be one shot. Sure, if he could react he could block it with the mirror dimension, but he can't react"

In your statement, you didn't mention why I was off base. Dr. Strange tanked a blast that tossed Iron Man and Spiderman using super advanced armor away like rag dolls. And I showed you that people running right next to Thor's lightning were not moved by it. You saw Strange tank explosions without any shields and walk away unharmed. You saw Strange physically 1v1 thanos and the power gem and you are saying that he can't handle Thors lightning? He certainly can. This guy is the master of the Mystic arts. He is the ultimate sorcerer in the entire universe.

Strange deals with cosmic entities and you are saying that he isn't able to handle common lightning? A basic thing by comparison? Of course, he can.

Lightning Impact

"Thor's lightning has laughably better feats than that, like where he destroyed a city block level of Jotunhiem. The fact is that DS can't react to any lightning Thor calls down from the sky because it is 1/3 the speed of light..."

Excuse me, but this was Mjolnir, not his lightning. Again, you aren't listening to what I am saying with my argument.

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Dr. Strange in Astral form, who is fighting the God of Thunder, which Strange knows everything about, looks at lightning like it is hardly moving. Now, you show me faster than light reaction speed for Thor, or you lose this debate. Once more, you stated that he can't react to Lightning. I said he can in astral form. So here you go, here is Strange 100x out speeding Lightning from Thor. You said he can't. Yup, he can. And there will be 20+ Stranges that can do this while Stock is essentially not moving by comparison.

You are not addressing my battle strategy. You are debunked. My battle strat was to go into astral mode and do a number of things and you are talking about if Strange couldn't or wouldnt...when going up against someone he knows uses Lightning as his primary attack? Your argument here makes no sense and defeats itself, I'm afraid.

"I don't see Iron Man in that Gif"

Yea, that is my fault the gif edit didn't do a proper crop on that and used top right instead of left. But actually, that helps my case. You shouldn't have said that, because that is just an Ultron Bot that is roflstomped by Iron Man and the others. Hell, even Captain America can handle them 1v1. And there it is, moving just as fast as Thor, while Iron Man handles Ultron alone.

You can clearly see both Ultron and Iron Man's hands and arms moving toward each other.

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So your argument is the Ultron Bot > Ultron? Because Ultron didn't win that 1v1. You just lost the speed debate because you said an Ultron bot can keep up with Thor. Here is Captain America and Hawkeye taking out Ultron Bots.

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And again

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And again

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Your argument is destroyed. You said the Ultron Bot was in that first gif which shows the Bot and Thor on par with each other. So based on feats, it is now your turn to show me where Thor has reacted to anything moving at these speeds. Here is the cloak zip firing into Drax's fast supremely fast. Show me once anywhere in the MCU where Thor was fending off something that fast. That Cloak is going to fly off Strange and wrap over Thor at those speeds...at 0:22 in the vid

https://youtu.be/ZQpWRenGF_w?t=17

Where is your counter to that speed?

Thor can't even sense or dodge Eitiri's kick. A giant lumbering thing of a guy.

https://youtu.be/i19U2oXEwiQ?t=30

Thor can't dodge Ultron

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Thor too Slow to react to Hulk grabbing him

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Thor too slow to dodge a lumbering Loki spinning on a pole staff

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So slow he cant dodge a net fired at him

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Requires a Train to get to places faster

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Dr. Strange so fast in reactionary abilities in an Astral form that Lightning almost doesn't move.

The reactionary and speed debate is over. Thor is nowhere near Dr. Stranges capabilities.

Mach 200 Mjolnir?

Nope. Not even Super Sonic. No windows shattering. You are confusing cinematic time and editing with super sonic speeds. Incorrect. When tossed, it isn't anywhere near Super Sonic speeds.

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Nowhere near Super Sonic speed. Nothing breaks around them

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Still nowhere near Super Sonic Speed

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Quick Silver is clocked at Mach 4 at best. Here is proof in a video measuring distances and travel.

https://youtu.be/qwzDfqVcyUU?t=318

Here is Thor's hammer moving at snail pace by comparison to someone who cant run faster than Mach 4.

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Mjolnir Speed Debunked. Far, far less than Mach 4.

You shot yourself in the foot by saying Thor is Weak to Dark Magic. Final Closing statements on your counters

"Thor can survive the heat of a star"

Cool. He can't handle Hulk punching him. He can't handle Thanos punching him. Strange can handle Thanos punching him. I proved that with gifs, you didn't showcase how his heat tolerance is even relevant. You are plucking random feats. What does heat have to do with this fight? Nothing.

"Thor can survive a city exploding"

No, he can't. The energy was from his lightning being amped by the Vibranium. It was purely electrical explosion power and that wont really ever harm Thor. His own power wont harm him. But guess what level of electricity does.

This little tiny thing on his neck renders him useless.

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You are talking about physical strength?

This chair was stronger than Thor. A CHAIR.

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vs Dr. Strange bare hand pulling down Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

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Which one is these were stronger? The Chair. Or Thanos?

Strength debunked. Strange wins hands down.

The Finale' Closing Statement

Some points

  • Dr. Strange showcases bare hand retraining Thanos. Thor can't break out of a chair restraint.
  • Dr. Strange read up on Asgardians and knows all about Thor already. Thor knows nothing about Strange.
  • Dr. Strange is faster in Astral Form than Thor is by leagues. Thor has no experience of defense against that.
  • Dr. Strange can BFR Thor easily, and already did twice. He made a mockery of him already!
  • Dr. Strange's cloak of levitation is faster than Mjolnir in combat speed and can wrap around his head and body.
  • Dr. Strange can recreate portals on Thor's body that can delimb him
  • Dr. Strange can lock Stormbreaker/Mjolnir in another Dimension.
  • Dr. Strange showcases faster than lightning speed feats and by your own admission, Thor is = an Ultron Bot in speed.
  • Dr. Strange has fought cosmic entities and won. Thor has no experience with that sort of thing.
  • Dr. Strange tanked hits from the Infinity Gauntlet in physical striking. Thor was murder stomped by the same Thanos.
  • Dr. Strange has the ability to teleport Thor from a long distance away. Thor has no blitzing feats.

In your entire argument, you didn't post a single Thor Blitz, but claimed he can Blitz Strange. No blitzing. He is slow by comparison. And Dr. Strange can teleport around the battlefield and also create 20+ copies of himself that can go into astral form and exceed Thor in speed so severely, that you really have no argument left.

  • Strange no sells Thor's lightning. He reacts and denies Infinity Gauntlet lightning. Thors isnt an issue.
  • Strange has actual blitzing of Thor in that scene. He was teleporting so fast that Thor didnt know what was happening.

This battle has a clear winner. The SorcererSupreme remains Supreme. Objectively, with proof direct from the films, is superior to Thor in striking, in physical strength and projective abilities. He already knows everything about Thor and Asgardians and will know immediately what spells to use to win that fight easily. Thor cannot win this. No amount of brute strength is going to help. His heal tolerance is a non factor. He was knocked out repeatedly by Hulk and Thanos, where as Strange 1v1ed Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.

Why you lose this

If readers are reading, take notice Xzone doesnt even have a battle strategy. He is citing feats of thor, and some of them dont even matter. What does heat tolerance have anything to do with this fight? What is Thor going to do. Now, since this is closing statements, it wouldn't be fair to introduce a new strategy at the end, would it? IMO, No. The battle strat of xZone is nonexistent, where as my strategy was the same from the first post. I said that Strange will go into astral form and already knows all about Thor. Thor is clueless by comparison to how to defeat Strange.

In astral form, he can easily retrain Thor, use portables to chop off his limbs, or BFR him to another dimension. And Strange does that in excess of light speed. Again, look at how fast he is in this form. And he used this in multiples of 20 against Thanos. He will do the same to this.

So I ask again, where are Thor's speed feats on this level? Nowhere.

Master of the Mystic Arts takes this win without much of a problem...because he already knows everything about him and Thor knows virtually nothing about Strange. You need to have a battle strategy to win and citing off feats is not a battle strategy. My opponent handed me the win. What is his argument in the Why Thor wins? It isn't there. Listing off feats isnt a battle strategy and its already too late to toss a new one.

Strange wins.

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#99 Posted by deactivated-5c63f773eaecf (1549 posts) - - Show Bio
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#100 Posted by xZone (10339 posts) - - Show Bio

@kryptonianpride: First we said 3 posts total, then you said 3 not including the first one, now it’s 5 total... Why

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