CaV: MCU Stick (JaylinFreeman) vs Prince Nuada (KingAntagonist) STRENGTH EQUALIZED

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MCU Stick represented by @jaylinfreeman

No Caption Provided

Prince Nuada represented by @kingantagonist

Battle Rules & Conditions:

  • In character & determined to win
  • Strength equalized
  • Standard gear
  • No prep & knowledge
  • All characters are in peak mental and physical condition.
  • Win by death.
  • Take place where Hellboy & Nuada fought for the Golden Army control
  • Start 10 f apart facing each other

    For the Voters

  • This is a CaV, only @jaylinfreeman and I are allowed to debate, you can give your opinion about the CaV once it's finished.
  • If you want to vote at the end of the debate, say "T4V" if you want to be tag after every post say "TAEP"
  • While voting, do not vote with your opinion on the battle as a basis for the vote, but vote for who you think convinced you of their stance.

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deactivated-608557dfde16e

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Limitless82

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I know nothing about Stick to be honest but look forward to see the debate anyway :-)

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Nucleon

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Hey, why not. No knowledge whatsoever on Stick, so not only should I be neutral, but I may learn a thing or two along the way.

Please tag me when the vote's ready.

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JaylinFreeman

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@kingantagonist nice work! I'll try to get something up soon, school is a piece of work ATM.

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the_red_viper

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#6 the_red_viper  Moderator

Interesting. Good luck.

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JaylinFreeman

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ANTHP2000

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#8 ANTHP2000  Online

Strength equalised is a bit weird of a concept for a swordsmanship matchup. T4V.

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the_red_viper

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#9 the_red_viper  Moderator

@anthp2000: Considering Nuada matched strength with Hellboy who can flip cars over, it's probably for the best.

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JaylinFreeman

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Bump

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Stick (AKA The Old Blind Guy AKA Shiro AKA Chaste)

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From the Marvel Cinematic Wiki:

Stick was a martial arts master and Chaste member. During a war between Chaste and Hand, Stick recruited Elektra, only to abandon her, as she proved too dangerous, and trained Matt Murdock instead. Years later, Stick and Elektra had attempted to recruit Murdock, now working as Daredevil, but Murdock still refused as he instead convinced Elektra to change sides. This caused Stick to then order Elektra's death, leading to him being captured and tortured by the Hand. Stick was saved by his former pupils, and later witnessed Elektra's death by Nobu Yoshioka. In the final days of the war, Stick had witnessed the Chaste being defeated by Alexandra Reid's forces, and went to the Defenders in the hopes of defeating his enemies once and for all. However, upon learning that the Hand required the powers of the Iron Fist to complete their plans, Stick decided to kill Danny Rand to stop all this from happening. Stick was then stopped, however, when Elektra returned and kidnapped Iron Fist, plunging her blade into Stick's chest and killing hi

Physcials & Skill

Despite Stick being a man his 90's, he has the physicality of a younger man in his 20's and even surpasses that in some stats. This shown when he's able to keep up with Matt Murdock in unarmed combat, and in case you did not know Matt is capable of evading the Black Sky for an extended duration of time despite being unarmed and physically inferior. Post-Ressurection Elektra is capable of low level bullet timingand can slaughter a group of 10 Hand Ninjas in ten seconds despite starting unarmed. (I'll get to the hand ninjas feats later) But this shows Stick despite being a much older, blind man can hold his own.

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Stick is also capable of keeping up with the Black Sky (who's feats I already shown above) in armed combat despite having one hand, Elektra having the element of surpise prior to the fight, and dual wielding two swords compared to Stick who is wielding one. He even tanks a sword stab in the leg from the former, which triples as a feat of stats, skill, and pain tolerance.

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And then there is Stick fending off multiple Hand Ninjas with the help of the Defenders despite once again only having one hand.

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These guys were giving Daredevil and Elektra (two master martial art masters) hell all throughout Season 2 of Daredevil and are capable of treating two cops like fodder.

I'll do my best to elaborate more on Stick's pain tolerance, and possibly more on stats in my future posts but this should suffice for now.

Thoughts

I've only seen part of the first Hellboy film and a couple of scenes involving Prince Nuada on Youtube, and while he seems skilled I'm not sure how he can possibly stack up to Stick's level so only your future posts will tell. This is a small post, I know but Stick doesn't have a lot of feats to go off of in general, so I'm handing the mic to you @kingantagonist. Good luck friend!

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Limitless82

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JaylinFreeman

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Nuada: Crown Prince of the Bethmoora clan

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Bio

Prince Nuada was the only son and heir of King Baelor , King of the magical races and leader of the Elven Clan Bethmoora. Nuada along with his twin sister (Princess Nuala) was born thousands of years ago in a era where Magicals Beings under King Baelor rule and humans lived in harmony together .

Unfortunately , one day the humans waged war against the magical beings for the control of the earth, despite neither side being victorious the war destroyed King Baelor people as more and more where dying in the battlefied against the humans armies. Prince Nuada fought alongside his father in the battles during the war where he gaigned many scars.

One day a renowned Goblin blacksmith offered to build the King an army of 70 times 70 soldiers, ( 4,900 soldier), all made from clockwork and all wound up. Prince Nuada begged his father to accept, and King Baelor did .

The army was a beautiful feat of goblin engineering, beautiful yet deadly, deadly for the humans, women childrens & old people unable to fight included.

King Baelor full of doubts and regrets in front of this one sided and total slaughter made a pact with the humans. He divided the Crown of Bethmora (who allow to control the Golden Army) in three pieces. Two for himself and one for the humans. In exchange Humans would keep the cities & lands , while the Magical Beings would keep the forests.

But Prince Nuada did not trust the evils humans promess and he exiled himself , swearing to return when his people would need him most.

Nuada Battle Theme

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Skills & Combat Speed: Can Stick keep up ?

By feats Nuada is clearly above Stick in skills and let alone Combat speed/General speed moves.

In this scene (https://youtu.be/7sFUh5TNs5o) we have Nuada (without weapons at first )facing the Elite of the Magical Beings warriors. Those guys he is fighting is what you should call Elite fodder or high-tier fodder they have being selected to protect the King among hundreds maybe thousands of Magical beings Warriors . Yet, Nuada still deal with them fairly easily.

First feat showing how skilled and how fast he is , despite being attacked from behind and being unarmed, Nuada manage to effortlessly beat two Royal guards (one with his H2H skills only) before any other Royal guard could help or react

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Another feat just after, he manage to fight & outskill all the guards at once by charging right in the middle of them, in other words he outfought all of them while fighting with his sides and back unprotected , you should keep in mind that Nuada was doing that with stolen weapons, he was not using his standar gear. I don't remember Stick figting that much opponent of that lvl at the same time simultaneously.

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Nuada proved to be able to fight opponent with an insane combat speed in equal ground (a better combat speed than Elektra/Black Sky ever showed on screen) . Prince Nuada was able to keep up with a Hellboy using a melee weapon in combat.

This is the very same Hellboy who was able to effectively counter Karl Ruprect Kroenen with his H2H skills and combat speed only.

To give you an accurate idea of how skilled & fast the guy Hellboy fought is , there is this fight scene

This scene is very impressive and prove how impressive it is to keep up against Karl, Karl deflected and redirected bullets back at his opponents at close range with his blades, using his incredible fighting speed supported by his skills.

Even Black Sky (Elektra) who is the most impressive of the three (Matt/Stick) never showed a feat of that lvl. The feat where she kinda dodge the bullet at close range, it's quite impressive I admit, but it is still way less impressive than what Karl did. Not to mention while Elektra was running at the guy and only "dodged" the bullet during her move, Karl deflected and redirected various bullets coming from two shooters.

Also, as I said earlier Hellboy was fighting Nuada with a weapon, while when he fought Karl he was unarmed.

Now, I must say, scalling Stick skills/combat speed lvl by his showing against Black Sky it's wrong, in this scenario at least. But I will go back to this point later.

Nuada also showed an extreme and I would argue kinda perfect precision, quite clearly above everything Stick ever showed. At least as far as I remember.

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He managed to cut a waterdrop when it was mid-air in a clean move, perfectly in half. Which by far surpass many precision feats of many MCU characters, Stick included.

In other words , Stick would have to fight an opponent not only clearly much superior in combat speed & speed moves but with superior skills & a deadly precision who also surpass Stick own fighting precision.

The gear advantage

Another major point in Prince Nuada favor in this fight, is the gear advantage . He have plenty of ways of using his superior gear to beat Stick.

First of all Nuada use a spear which offer him the reach advantage and reach advantage is very important in fighting. (Boxing MMA, Swordsmanship and so on) Especially when the skills are equal or superior like in our case.

This is how it looks like to face a spearman with a Katana /Sword, when the skills are about equals (which ins't the case here) also you should keep in mind that the guy with a sword was with a shield, which offer him a considerable defensive advantage. In Stick case he don't have shield and have only his Katana.

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Now you might say that Nuada spear ins't that long as the one in the video, which is true. But still , the fact the spear is shorter don't change anything ,the reach advantage is still present an considering Nuada is much faster & superior in skills , the gear advantage is another major point in Nuada favor.

Another factor in Nuada favor: He just need to touch Stick once with a direct attack to incap him or even kill him.

As you can see in the gif, the blade of Nuada spear can break herself once she is in contact with the skin of the opponent. And then the tip stay in the opponent body, and if you try to take it off, the tip go deaper in the body.

It's very likely that Nuada can break stick Katana at the very begining of their fight, Nuada use a Elvish steel who is in the top of that magic.

Hellboy who can tank :

Having his head/horns being crushed by a Train at full speed without losing consciousness

Falling dozens or even hundreds of feets right into a station while fighting with a Monster

Being thrown at full power by the said monster against a Wall of stones. (The Wall even break)

An entire subway structure falling on him

Being blasted at full power out of a Window and then falling dozens of feets right into a Police Car

Now you have an idea on how much Nuada weapon need to be strong to actually hurt Hellboy like this. I don't think there is any solid reason to believe that Nuada can't break Stick sword during the fight. Although it could be arguable when it would happen.

Either way, I proved Nuada to outclass Stick in skills, combat speed and speed moves also I showed Nuada having a perfect fighting precision , so in all honesty I can argue Stick won't be even able to dodge or parry the first attack from Nuada.

About Black Sky/Elektra & Daredevil

Black Sky , while very impressive in her own right is clearly overrated. First let's talk about this feat

can slaughter a group of 10 Hand Ninjas in ten seconds despite starting unarmed.

While this feat at first seems to be extremely impressive, I think by all means he can be considered as a outlier.

As you proved Daredevil was able of dodging and parry Black Sky attacks and even keeping up with her despite Black Sky having the physical advantage and being with her sword . (And Iron Fist which I would argue to be less skilled than Daredevil also managed to evade and counter Black Sky in Defenders)

Now let's see how well does Daredevil performed against only a few Hand members.

Despite Daredevil facing only 2-3 members at the same time, he was having some troubles, and he even get tagged twice one of the guys managed to grab him and the other to kick him, and this is not even the whole fight scene. So explain me to me HOW , Black Sky can kill 10 of those ninja in 10 sec while starting unarmed, if this very same Daredevil was able to give her some serious troubles and land multiples blows on her despite being without his suit and unarmed

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Unless you prove me otherwise by actual feats , this is a outlier and shouldn't be considered as a scalling for Stick lvl of skills.

Now another point , the feats when Stick fought Daredevil in H2H and Black Sky in swordsmanship shouldn't be considered without the context which is very important here.

Stick trained both Elektra and Matt for years, he is the one who taught them how to fight, he is the one who taught them most of their moves and the major part if not the whole part of their fighting style. So one of the main reasons why Stick faired so well against Black Sky it's because he was fighting a style he was very used to and knew exactly how to counter the said fighting style, and this is a advantage he doens't have against Prince Nuada .

Summary & Initial conclusion

I feel like I proved how Prince Nuada outclass Stick in pretty much everything. I think I also proved Prince Nuada is just in another league from Black Sky and in turn he is clearly above everything Stick can do. Stick doens't have really any advantage who should allow him to even make this a true fight. Nuada should be able to beat him right away or some seconds.

In my next post I will focus on Nuada agility skills and feats, and prove how with them in his corner this a clear stomp for Prince Nuada .

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Nucleon

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#16  Edited By Nucleon

Wow, fierce fight.

I just have to make a comment on KA's video; What a strange choice of weapon, a buckler, to face someone with a spear; Even a knife would have been better. Maybe they wanted to reproduce the classical Myrmidion vs Velite gladiatorial fights of antiquity, but a trident is easier to block with a buckler than a spear. The trick here for the sword-weilding myrmidion, is to "go inside" the velite's spear, while being careful of the later's net, which was often used in a defensive manner.

Anyway, great CaV so far - please pardon/ignore my ramblings and go on. =)

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Limitless82

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