The argument for the Avengers was more convincing given the feats shown for Thor and Hulk to be on par with, or above Ares' level. I also didn't really like the calcs used nor the assertion that Wonder Woman jumping through a wall, was building level, but something that was shown to swim through a skyscraper, isn't.
I believe the Bifrost example also worked in eri's favor to show durability for Thor (and power too since Loki took it), though I didn't like the dismissal of the other Avengers that weren't Hulk or Thor.
Overall, the argument showed Thor and Hulk to have the power/strength to put Ares down, and the durability to take his attacks.
Not sure whether my vote will be counted or not. I've gone by many names (OnlyOneEmpereor, FinalOrbital, Agent_of_Chaos and Kurse) but all of them are banned (The main is banned for meh reasons), so I've no clue how credible I am regarding this but I'll throw out my thoughts anyway, for whatever it's worth. (I have 8000+ posts so yeah)
I like the fact that ComicGirl21's post were concise, polite, with less repetition. He (going on with male gender per default here) was honest enough to bring in a plan B in case his plan A wouldn't work, which I think is refreshing. On the other hand, Eri tryed to counter everything with the lightning argument, ignoring the Zeus feats which created a whole island and I feel ComicGirl was right to not pull the low showings of phase 1 Thor and Hulk, like getting hurt by a crash or by granade launchers or by sonic cannons so I don’t see the counter For the TK and Lightning made. Personally I went there believing Ares would have an extremly hard time to put the team down but it’s the other way around, Eri did not convince me of Hulk and Thor having good teamwork and conceded that 4/6 avengers are fodder and would lose to Ares which made the debate easier for comicgirl. The pyrokinesis and strategy of TP was handled well and which makes me inclined to vote for ComicGirl, the one true victor of this contest.
@eri123 Can you tell me a reason why you wouldn't want to count this vote? I know the guy is a banned user, but we made no previous agreement regarding such votes. I thought our agreement to exclude low post users was only a safety backup for us to avoid biased people getting double votes etc, at least that's what we've talked about. But that's clearly not the case here. You said yourself you don't want to judge who's biased and who's not, so why sudden change of attitude? It sounds like you want to exclude his post based on him disliking your posts, but don't users have the right to do that?
I honestly see no reason not to count his vote. I've seen this guy in a couple other CaV's making very respectful and detailed votes just like he did here, and I've never seen other users not accepting it, even if he was voting against them - you're the first one I see reacting so radically, simply because he doesn't have an account. He gave a detailed explanation like we asked, clearly made the effort to read our thread and made his own conclusion based on what he read, so I think he should be entitled to his own opinion, he is still a human being lmao, is he not? What is your reasoning not to count it? Do you think he has a personal bias against you? Do you think he is my alt or something? What exactly is the matter?
I’m voting for Eri. I do believe the arguments made for Ares regarding stats were very nice and I haven’t thought of them before. But I think the arguments regarding his lightning was a little overblown. And since the argument kind of hinged on him utilizing that ability to beat the team, I wish it was a little more accurate.
Eri’s arguments were a little more accurate imo and although Comicgirl destroyed him with her counters. I don’t think she did enough to prove why someone like Phase 1 Hulk would get beaten by Ares. It can be down, just didn’t see it here.
@comicgirl21: The reason why it's because this guy hates me a lot.He just wants me to fail.You should see the things he says to me in Discord,he curses at me then shouts at me for being rude like what.Spams my PM with this type of stuff like everytime I come online on Discord.
He hates Thanos so much that he even made a CaV representing him than losing on purpose just so he can see Thanos lose and make MCU fanboys mad.
If you ask other people here they will tell you the same thing,other people haven't included his vote in other cavs.
This is the same guy that keeps spamming threads like Kurse vs DCEU Trinity,Thanos vs Zod,Nam-ek and Faora etc.
@comicgirl21: The reason why it's because this guy hates me a lot.He just wants me to fail.You should see the things he says to me in Discord,he curses at me then shouts at me for being rude like what.Spams my PM with this type of stuff like everytime I come online on Discord.
He hates Thanos so much that he even made a CaV representing him than losing on purpose just so he can see Thanos lose and make MCU fanboys mad.
If you ask other people here they will tell you the same thing,other people haven't included his vote in other cavs.
This is the same guy that keeps spamming threads like Kurse vs DCEU Trinity,Thanos vs Zod,Nam-ek and Faora etc.
It‘s so annoying that I have to comeback to post a single message and debunk when people write stuff that never happened about me:
First, I have no bias in any vote or debaters. If I dislike one argument or disagree with someone it doesn’t mean I am gonna bash him or curse him, the only thing is that I had linked a thread where somebody was winning 84% to 16% but yet, people denied the Russo’s statements again for Thor. That’s not trolling.
Second: I stated “I don’t know it my vote would be counted or not” and since i rep MCU characters, I don’t see a problem here plus here I can link you some CAVs where people accepted my vote so you can stop writing stuff that never happened.
People had made Endgame Trio vs Kurse and Thanos vs Kryptonians again so yeah? It’s not a troll thread or mismatch since you believe Thanos can beat Zod + Superman at the same time.
Here I can debunk the “mcu hate” I have like you say, i rep MCU characters most of the time and honestly it’s my buisness and what I did and it’s nothing wrong.
Anyways as I said, I don’t really care if you count it or not but Atleast don’t write stuff that never happened over a fictional debate in the internet. I also dont “hate” you since Hate is a strong word, at best I can genuinely says I disagree with most of your opinion about Thanos and your Superman arguments.
in reality, you wanted to do MCU Hela vs Ares Aganist me and Kurse vs Nam ek but it never happened so yeah, it’s not true. -
Last thing: Yes, I have a ban over a site but that doesn’t mean somebody is not allowed to speak his opinion off-site or on-site and you know my ban was off a user which always go in the grey area in his arguments. Well, I am just gonna say good luck and deactivate now.
Stop writing stuff that never happened or saying Kurse vs Trio is a mismatch, I have nothing else to say this and this is not derailing. Just don’t write stuff that never happened in comments between me and you and what I “did” in the past.
I am not MoTM or Ta-Er so yeah, stop it and I won’t answer back again. Don’t answer to this.
Gonna vote for Eri. While Comics did a great job defending Ares, probably some of the best arguments I’ve ever seen for him on this site against MCU high tiers, I still think the counters Eri made give this to the avengers.
I’m only upset he didn’t try to include iron man, maybe just for his durability alone as a distraction, but understandable for everyone else.
Feats posted for thors lightning just put it above Ares by significant margin so he takes it there. Ares isn’t one to run from a fight so I don’t think he’d fly away just to limit hulk. Like Eri said it would probably just be a direct fight between Thor, hulk and Ares and based on the strength, durability and energy feats by Eri I think they take it. Comics did a great job, and did honestly put Ares in a new power spot for me. Just don’t see a way he can put down Thor and Hulk.
Awesome debate guys, I'm glad this CaV was finished.
I'm gonna vote for Comicgirl here. I love how he gave a lot of arguments from different backgrounds, while eri123 focused mostly on strength and Thor's lightning in all 3 of his posts. Speed argument with clear distinction between combat speed / reaction speed was a very good argument. And a lot of different options that Ares has to deal damage like pyrokinesis, electrokinesis, telekinesis etc. All coming with feats and calcs, it's an overall job well done. All the best guys
Whilst I think it's fairly clear DCEU Bruce has Nolan Batman outclassed here he still has some noteworthy strength feats such as the following.
Bruce casually takes a huge chunk out of brick just by kicking it. To stop this argument being made before we get too it, no the knee brace doesn't enhance his strength, that's not the point of it. Knee braces don't cause super strength. Period. Batman also has the striking power to casually knock out grown men with single hits.
Bruce matches Bane in physical strength. Keep in mind that Bane was a physical beast capable of casually smashing concrete pillars with his bare hands, snapping a man's neck with one hand without really trying and lifting Batman whilst fully armoured without strain. He's certainly not as strong as DCEU Batman but he's good enough to hurt him with his strikes when it comes down to it and he has advantages in other categories that give him an edge over DCEU Batman.
Speed
Contrary to popular belief Nolanverse Batman is actually insanely fast and has one feat that puts him solidly above DCEU Batman when you look at it.
Bruce clears around forty feet in three seconds whilst simultaneously avoiding gunfire from an automatic rifle being fired by a highly trained marksman in a confined, narrow tunnel. I'd say this makes him a bullet timer but that argument is not something I'll press here just that he's one of the best live action street levellers at aim dodging and superior to DCEU Batman in this regard. DCEU Batman does not have a single feat on this level.
Bruce reacts to an out of nowhere attack from a swat officer, deflecting it without getting tagged. Whilst this is nothing remarkable it's still a decent reflex feat.
Bruce turns round and subdues a highly trained league member with a palm strike before Ra's can draw his sword [I's halfway out of the sheath by the time Bruce is finished] and Ra's is a peak human capable of effortlessly countering and reacting too pre-league training Bruce's moves.
Durability
Nolanverse Batman honestly has durability superior to that of DCEU Batman with one feat alone being better than anything DCEU Batman can put on the table.
Nolanverse Batman tanks a fall off a skyscraper. DCEU Batman does not have a single feat on this level. He gets up two seconds later and is completely fine after this. Just to prevent this arguments being used I'll counter it early. No Bruce does not use his cape. He uses it right at the end as he's about to land and it barely slows his fall at all.
Bruce gets slammed against a concrete pillar by a van moving at incredibly high speeds and shrugs it off as if it's nothing straight after doing so.
Batman tanks a fall like it's nothing despite the fact that he fell hard enough to stop the van in its tracks as well as putting a huge dent in it.
Batman tanks a huge barrage of punches from Bane who as you can see in this gif is strong enough to put large dents in thick concrete pillars with nothing but his bare hands.
Even without his suit Bruce is still a physical beast capable of tanking explosions with little to no effort whatsoever with this one throwing him like a ragdoll several feat through the air.
Skill
This is the one section where Nolanverse Bruce holding the cards is not debatable at all. One feat puts him well above even DCEU Bruce's wildest dreams.
Just to make a quick comparison between this one feat and Bruce's only impressive skill showing in the DCEU, his four on one in the BVS warehouse sequence let's compare the two. The guys Bruce's facing in the above gifs have body armour making it harder for them to be put down than the mercenaries DCEU Batman was facing and they also had swords giving them a huge reach advantage [The mercs had knives so they had no notable edge]. In addition to this they were also more skilled [I'll get too this in a minute]. So basically Nolan Batman is fight four more skilled guys attacking from all angles with a huge reach advantage who were wearing body armour head to toe and got tagged once. DCEU Batman was fighting four unarmoured guys who were less skilled with no such reach advantage and got tagged once. Nolanverse Batman's is undeniably the better of the two and too argue otherwise would be as futile as saying that the sky is pink. It's not true and holds no bearing whatsoever.
Ignoring the fact that by on paper statements the LOS are better than the mercenaries regardless [The mercenaries were literally just mercenaries, the LOS ninjas were operatives part of an organization that specialized in combat] they actually have feats. The mercenaries have zero hand to hand feats whatsoever compared to LOS ninjas who whilst unarmed could outmanoeuvre security guards without being tagged once and casually snap necks. LOS ninjas are superior by far.
Also this is a more impressive skill showing than the warehouse scene in which Batman takes two minutes too subdue his opponents whilst using gear and fighting four at once at most and taking an extended period of time to finish them. Here Nolan Batman subdued seventeen guys in twenty one seconds without gear with as many as six attacking him at once [He finished off the six in about three seconds, DCEU Batman needed a much bigger amount of time].
This is another instance more impressive than DCEU Batman's four on one. Batman goes through six guys who are also trained mercenaries probably on the level of the one's DCEU Batman fought. In this sequence admittedly he only takes three at once at most but unlike DCEU Batman who got tagged and strained himself for a dragged out fight Nolan Batman goes untouched by the three, finishing them in seconds with apparent ease. The difference between the two in skill is staggering.
I also noticed that you claimed that stomping Deadshot is impressive but I disagree, Deadshot is inferior to pre-league training Bruce who could beat six guys attacking at once solo which is more than I could say for Deadshot. To be honest one LOS ninja is probably more impressive than Floyd in hand to hand who had zero feats whatsoever.
Some Minor Counters
Batfleck clearly has the better gear and is better at using them in combat.
As baseless as they come, the claim doesn't mean anything unless you back it up and simply listing his gear isn't doing that.
Although it seems the Batsuit heavily restrains Bruce's agility, this is definitely NOT true, as he has multiple agility feats. And is clearly more acrobatic then Baleman.
He does admittedly have better agility but that doesn't mean much, the ability to do a backflip won't save him from Nolan Batman.
People often lowball DCEU Batman's skill purely because he got tagged on the cowl a few times by some mercs in the warehouse scene.
The lowballing is ridiculous but he's still not on Nolan Batman's level.
However, he may have let them tag him as he is aware of his Cowl's invulnerability.
That that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
Even if they hit on accident, Bruce was in a hurry to save MARTHA and had just come out of a fight with Superman.
Bruce had come out of multiple injuries prior to the league ninjas fight and was in a hurry to catch Ra's but that didn't stop him from performing better. When fighting the mercs he'd just recovered from a back break but he still went untouched.
He's also critisized for using gadgets but it's just the way he fights, anyway he still has great h2h skill. Anyway, let's look at some feats.
Great hand to hand skill, yes. On Nolan Batman's level, no.
Batman's suit give him a huge durability, advantage, being bullet proof and piercing resistant is some areas.
So is Bruce. He tanked gunshots and deflected knife blades, I don't see your point.
This should make him almost invulnerable to Baleman's gauntlets.
Piercing and blunt force are two different things, since neither will be using blades the latter isn't relevant.
And he's also taken hits to the face and hits from Superhumans, so hits from Baleman should have little to no effect on him.
He's never tanked a fall from a skyscraper.
Another great category for DCEU Batman, he's shown the ability to react to beings who possess Superspeed and has a great collection of avoiding bullet feats, he has generally shown faster feats than Baleman.
Nolan Batman's one bullet dodging feat is better than all of his.
This is a category which Batman excels at, he has shown immense Strength and Power in the DCEU, and even has feats against Superhuman beings. He is clearly far above Baleman here.
I’m voting for Eri. I do believe the arguments made for Ares regarding stats were very nice and I haven’t thought of them before. But I think the arguments regarding his lightning was a little overblown. And since the argument kind of hinged on him utilizing that ability to beat the team, I wish it was a little more accurate.
Eri’s arguments were a little more accurate imo and although Comicgirl destroyed him with her counters. I don’t think she did enough to prove why someone like Phase 1 Hulk would get beaten by Ares. It can be down, just didn’t see it here.
Nice job to both.
Since we've asked for a detailed explanations to come with the votes, and agreed to put "give reason for the vote" in the OP, I've got a question to this vote and the voter.
Hermes, can you please elaborate a little bit more on what exactly your decision is based on? I'm not sure if I understand your logic, and what you are trying to say. Sounds a little bit like you didn't read much of the posts to be honest. You said my argument hinged on Ares utilizing lightning against the team, when not only did I never said that, but I actually said quite the opposite.
My position from post 1 was that Ares's main advantage lies in his versatility and ability to take down the team in all manner of ways, and I continued to build pressure towards this argument, giving new calculations, scalings and feats to support this in every post. I've made a pretty detailed case for Ares being able to take down the team using AOE telekinesis, and provided calcs and feats for this. I made similar case for Ares's ability to take down the team using intense heat and again, provided calcs, (this is specifically the ability I said should be effective against the Hulk too), I made another case for Ares being able to take down the team using blade spam, and piercing attacks. ( In my closing statement I even mentioned Hulk specifically, and that I believe piercing attack vs Hulk's exposed vitals and pyrokinesis are the answer for him) And I made an argument about Ares's mobility being too much for Hulk to handle, giving the fact Ares can wear Hulk down from safe distance, as he has super-speed, can fly, teleport and so on, so on.
Don't get me wrong, feel free to vote against me all you want, like all readers can. I'm just here to remind you that in CaV's you vote based on who debated better, not based on who you personally think would rather win. Additionally, we ask you to give reasons for your vote to make sure we're dealing with people who are engaged in the deabate and have read the thread. In the context of these rules, your vote was pretty confusing to me. First you say my argument was insufficient even though I never made that specific argument to begin with, and then you say you vote for eri, without giving any reason why he convinced you with his debating skill at all.
I'd appreciate you coming back to this to support your vote.
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