CaV: MCU P1 Avengers (eri123) vs DCEU Ares (ComicGirl21) OPEN FOR VOTES

  • 178 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By ComicGirl21
No Caption Provided

MCU Phase 1 Avengers

Represented by @eri123

No Caption Provided

DCEU Ares

Represented by @comicgirl21

Battle Rules:

  • Win by death
  • In character
  • No BFR
  • Feats for MCU team only from Phase 1 movies
  • DCEU Ares from Wonder Woman movie, not prime Ares
  • Basic knowledge
  • Battle takes place in an abandoned NY street
  • Start 100 meters apart

CaV Rules:

  • This is a CaV which means only we are allowed to debate
  • If you wish to be tagged for votes say "T4V"
  • You need to have at least 500 posts to vote in our CaV. We'd like to avoid alt's giving their votes here.
  • Please give reasons for your vote or they will not be counted

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for apex_pretador
APEX_pretador

22326

Forum Posts

50

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

why?

Ares from Wonder Woman movie, not prime Ares

There is no reason to believe that ares from the movie was not at his prime

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5  Edited By ComicGirl21

why?

Ares from Wonder Woman movie, not prime Ares

There is no reason to believe that ares from the movie was not at his prime

It's just a term, really. What I meant is - this is the version that WW fought. Prime Ares is a term usually used to describe the version of Ares that Zeus/Steppenwolf fought. That's all.

Avatar image for joshtaku
JoshTaku

651

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

T4V curious to see how ares will be made a case for.

Avatar image for deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860
deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860

527

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@eri123 said:

@comicgirl21: Alright.

Should have given him Steppenwolf honestly or Zod for help but fine.

Avatar image for apex_pretador
APEX_pretador

22326

Forum Posts

50

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

@apex_pretador said:

why?

Ares from Wonder Woman movie, not prime Ares

There is no reason to believe that ares from the movie was not at his prime

It's just a term, really. What I meant is - this is the version that WW fought. Prime Ares is a term usually used to describe the version of Ares that Zeus/Steppenwolf fought. That's all.

Oh, that's fair. I always believed Ares is at his strongest in WW movie

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

They only deserve... destruction.
They only deserve... destruction.

DCEU Ares

Introduction

Ares is son of Zeus, and an ancient greek diety that existed long before humans on planet Earth, and took part in creating the world as it is today, by teaching humans violence and the art of war. He is cunning, vengeful, proud and extremely dangerous.

Ares, the god of war
Ares, the god of war

He proved that among all old gods of the Earth, he is the strongest and most powerful one, when he single-handedly took over Olympus and slaughtered all of the other gods by himself - he even defeated and killed Zeus, though he suffered severe wounds in the process. Even though not in his prime anymore, as the fight for Olympus weakened him, Ares is still a powerhouse, and you'll soon find out that he is far beyond the pay grade of Phase 1 Avengers. Let's see how and why should Ares win this CaV by a landslide! Let's go.

Intellect, skill and experience

First of all, Ares is likely millions of years old, being one of Zeus's original children that existed since the beginning of the world, and witnessing to the event of creation of humanity as a recent history to him. None of the Avengers has the experience to compete with him. He witnessed countless battles, initiated and manipulated humanity into endless wars, and also engaged in wars of unprecedented proportions. Some of his major victories, that prove his immense skill and battle experience include:

Slaughtering all of the Olympian gods single-handedly.

Ares on his own challenges and defeats all of the olympian gods
Ares on his own challenges and defeats all of the olympian gods

Defeating Steppenwolf in his prime, and forcing him and his armies to retreat from Earth.

Ares defeats Steppenwolf in his prime
Ares defeats Steppenwolf in his prime

Toying with Wonder Woman, both in her regular and god-amped state, and completely outmatching her in terms of skill and power ( prior to Diana mastering the power of love, when she eventually overpowered him)

No Caption Provided
Before Wonder Woman mastered the power of love, her fight against Ares was completely one sided. Ares easily ragdolls her around, both in H2H and with his skill in weapons.
Before Wonder Woman mastered the power of love, her fight against Ares was completely one sided. Ares easily ragdolls her around, both in H2H and with his skill in weapons.

On top of being an expert in the art of war overall he is a master in personal combat. He's been shown use his weapons with extreme proficiency, and is a beast in hand to hand combat. Having the edge in experience I don't think any MCU character here can claim to be his superior in combat. Ares has a decisive edge over @eri123's team when it comes to experience and skill.

He is not just a fighter and a warlord though, he is a cunning strategist, a master of deception. The fighting spirit of his opponents fuels his own power, and his intellect is far superior to any human - seeing how he was able to manipulate much of humanity into wars throughout the centuries, and even being personally responsible for creating many advanced weapons, which include clearly super-human formulas, like the one dr. Poison used to amp gen. Ludendorff's strength.

One thing is clear. There is no amount of good teamwork, personal combat experience or clever strategies that can help Avengers to win this fight. You can't beat the god of war in his own game. All they can really do, is try to overpower him with sheer power and numbers. But you'll soon see, that it's impossible for them to achieve as well.

Physical strength and durability

Ares is a powerhouse when it comes to his physical traits and stats. He is easily a match, if not superior to any and all of the MCU team characters. Like I mentioned, he was shown effortlessly overpowering Wonder Woman and tanking her punches with a smile, even when she was bloodlusted, in her "god-mode".

Ares takes a beating from bloodlusted
Ares takes a beating from bloodlusted "god-amped" Diana with a smile - then one shots her with a casual punch.
His weapon strikes send Diana flying with enough force to crack concrete beneath her.
His weapon strikes send Diana flying with enough force to crack concrete beneath her.

He also has impressive environmental striking feats. Like here, when his single strike creates a fissure in concrete and cuts a vehicle clean in half.

No Caption Provided

The fact that overpowering Wonder Woman is so easy to him is particularly impressive, considering how strong Diana is, even at this point in the story. She is able to take down a large church belltower with a shield-bash, which is easily a building level feat.

Diana takes down a belltower with a strike.
Diana takes down a belltower with a strike.

Diana can also easily lift tens of tons worth of tank over her head, and she doesn't even notice it's weight - she literally starts to day-dream while she is holding the tank above her head.

No Caption Provided

She can also basically run through thick, concrete walls without slowing down.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MemorableTerrificCow-mobile.mp4

So yeah, casually overpowering Wonder Woman easily puts Ares on the strength level of anyone in the MCU team, if not above them. I don't think they can ever hope to simply out-muscle him. It's not happening.

When it comes to durability of Ares's armor and his divine body, it follows Ares's impressive strength. Like I stated above, he can take a beating from Wonder Woman right in the face and laugh it off. He allowed Wonder Woman to land probably a dozen of strikes or more at him, but we clearly see he didn't even get the nosebleed from all that.

Bloodlusted, god-amped Wonder Woman pounds Ares right in the face with zero effects.
Bloodlusted, god-amped Wonder Woman pounds Ares right in the face with zero effects.

Ares's energy-based durability is even more impressive. Besides blunt force damage, MCU team has a lot of energy based weapons - Iron man's missles and repulsers, Hawkeye's explosives, Thor's lightning... if they all unleash it on Ares at the same time, can they blow him up to bits or fry him? Not even close. Ares can stand in the center of a massive explosion that covers a major part of an airport and it doesn't even burn his stash.

Ares and Diana are in the middle of a massive explosion, caused by dozens of airplanes bombs exploding in one burst. Diana is sent flying and briefly KO'd, but Ares is completely unfazed.
Ares and Diana are in the middle of a massive explosion, caused by dozens of airplanes bombs exploding in one burst. Diana is sent flying and briefly KO'd, but Ares is completely unfazed.
Again, Ares is in the center of a massive explosion, but takes completely no damage.
Again, Ares is in the center of a massive explosion, but takes completely no damage.

If necessary, I'm ready to follow up on this with relevant calcs, to show just how absurd Ares's durability is. But for now, I don't think it can be argued that Avengers have what it takes to take Ares down. Neither their energy output, nor their blunt force attacks will put a dent on this monster.

Speed, mobility and teleportation

Ares's speed is comparable to Wonder Woman's. We've already seen in this thread Ares easily tagging Diana on many occasions, some times mid-strike, which proves he has the combat speed to keep up with her just fine. In many regards, he can considered faster than her, which I'll prove later. Anyway, this is impressive, considering Wonder Woman, even prior to JL, was a casual bullet timer.

She can be surrounded by thugs taking fire on her from all directions and she completely no-sells it.

She can follow a bullet with her eyes and movements.

She can even aim with bullets she deflects - make them come back to their source.

Nobody in the Avengets team has the combat speed to keep up with Ares, based on that alone. Yes, some of the Avengers were able to REACT to bullets and similar projectiles. But when it comes to combat speed? And moving, attacking, blocking at the speed of the bullets? No, not even close.

Not even Quicksilver, who was portrayed as overwhelmingly faster than all Phase 1 Avengers, is a casual bullet timer. After all, he died to bullets, which Wonder Woman would block, deflect or dodge like a walk in the park, probably even direct them back where they came from.

No Caption Provided
Quicksilver is clearly too fast for even the fastest Phase 1 Avengers, such as Captain America and Thor, to react. They all move in slow motion to him, and can't track his movements.
Quicksilver is clearly too fast for even the fastest Phase 1 Avengers, such as Captain America and Thor, to react. They all move in slow motion to him, and can't track his movements.
And yet, Quicksilver himself isn't even a casual bullet timer. Clearly, actual bullet timers like Diana, and, by scaling, Ares, would have no issues blitzing Avengers as well.
And yet, Quicksilver himself isn't even a casual bullet timer. Clearly, actual bullet timers like Diana, and, by scaling, Ares, would have no issues blitzing Avengers as well.

Next, Ares has the ability to fly, which gives him a major mobility advantage. Only two characters in the MCU team can fly - so having basic knowledge about the Avengers Ares can easily use this to his advantage. If he ever feels like they are too much for him all at once, he can just fly up, and attack the team from above with his range attacks and magic. Only Thor and Iron man can follow him - which cuts my opponents team clean in half when it comes to power, and even more so when it comes to numbers.

Ares can fly with no restrictions - he can both hover safely in the air to stay out of reach of long range attacks...
Ares can fly with no restrictions - he can both hover safely in the air to stay out of reach of long range attacks...
And use flight to swiftly charge in and out of combat, like a kryptonian
And use flight to swiftly charge in and out of combat, like a kryptonian

On top of all that, one o Ares's divine powers is his ability to instantly disappear in a cloud of smoke, and re-appear anywhere else, which is effectively a teleportation/instant transmission technique, that can be even used in a middle of combat. Ares needs no charging time for this. Thor takes aim at him - and POOF - he disappears and appears behind him for a free strike, like he did here to Diana:

No Caption Provided

On top of Ares's superior speed and flight, this gives him a STUNNING field advantage. We also see he is able to maintain somewhat in-between state. He is able to move around as a specter, intangible, phasing through objects and matter.

No Caption Provided

He has limited showings using this, but even if he can't fight in this form, he can still use it to buy time, to phase through walls or to dodge attacks.

Overall the speed and mobility gap between this Avengers roster and Ares is massive. It makes the numbers advantage of my opponent completely irrelevant. Ares can blitz and teleport around the team, making most of their efforts, attacks and tactics useless. He can fly beyond the reach of grounded heroes, cutting the team in half. Sheer difference in combat speed is also no small thing. No matter how many statues Ares fights, they still can't effectively fight back.

Reality warping

Now that we have most of the core stats out of the way, let's move to the hax and versatility Ares brings to the table. First of all, Ares can transmute matter to summon his divine gear from scraps around, at will: Conjuring weapons, armor and other equipment he might need instantly.

Ares conjures his olympian blades effortlessly.
Ares conjures his olympian blades effortlessly.
Ares summons his olympain armor.
Ares summons his olympain armor.

And yes, the weapons and armor Ares summons actually do have the magic traits and durability of his standard olympian gear. I've already shown that Wonder Woman, who has strength to walk through concrete and bust buildings, couldn't put a dent on Ares's armor. His swords were also creating massive damage across the battlefield, which is something regular weapons wouldn't be able to replicate without breaking.

This gear summoning ability is actually not just beneficial for Ares, it's very dangerous to my opponent's team. Iron man has limited ammo. Cap and Thor have just one shield and one Mjolnir. Hawkeye and Black Widow also have ammo. But if Ares loses a weapon, or decides to throw them around for range attacks, he can make a new one appear in his hand instantly. If any piece of his armor takes damage, he can replace it with a new one, which gives him somewhat of a variation of a healing factor when it comes to taking damage, similarly to Tony's Veronica, which could replace damaged parts of the armor.

Immortality

If you still think it's possible to take Ares down, despite his massive mobility, durability and self-healing divine armor, on top of all that, Ares is also immortal. And not just immortal, because he doesn't age. He is also, supposedly, completely immune to harm, at least when it comes to mortals.

No Caption Provided

This may seem like a stretch, and we can certainly debate this claim further, but my initial question would be - how do you imagine MCU team hurting Ares in the first place? Based on this, and the showings we have for Ares, all that can really hurt him, seems to be high level, divine magic. And before you rush with the obvious answer, no I don't think Thor qualifies. Certainly Phase 1 Thor doesn't. Before Waititi took over Thor franchise in Phase 3 and rebooted it, Asgardians weren't even called gods, or considered gods just long-living aliens.

No Caption Provided

They were even speaking that way of themselves. Their magic, also wasn't considered magic, but just advanced science, in Thor's own words. And it's not just claims, Thor's lightning really seems to be regular lightning, not magic, which is clearly the case for Ares. Thor's lightning can be even absorbed and stored with technology, like regular electricity.

No Caption Provided

So how do you exactly plan to take Ares down, apparently having no non-mortal tools to work with, against someone, supposedly, immune to anything but divine powers? I mean if you'd have Doctor Strange here, I probably wouldn't even bring up this point, but with your current roster, it really seems to me that you have some explaining to do.

Telekinesis

Alright! Let's get to the good stuff. By far the most overpowered ability Ares has, is massive telekinesis that he wields. Because of this, most of the MCU team seems fodder to me. We see Ares has telekinesis precise enough to control multiple objects at once no problem:

No Caption Provided

It's also powerful enough to rip thousands of tons of rock from the ground and hover them in the air like it's nothing.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

And he is not limited to moving around non-living matter. He can push around Wonder Woman directly, Star Wars style:

No Caption Provided

Based on all this, why wouldn't he be able to just one shot all of the MCU team besides Thor and Hulk? He will pick up Avengers with human level durability - Hawkeye, Black Widow and Captain America, and just snap their necks or crush their organs and they drop dead. He should be able to do the same with Iron man, by just crushing his armor around him - if he can rip thousands of tons of rocks from the ground, his telekinesis is clearly enough to do it. Iron man armor is made of regular, earthly metals like steel, gold and titanium after all.

But Ares's telekinesis is not just useful against fodder. He can also use surrounding objects to trap stronger opponents helplessly in one place as well:

No Caption Provided

And this proved to be very effective against opponents such as Thor in the past, even a much more powerful version of Thor - Ragnarok Thor.

No Caption Provided

He can also use it in a combo with his ability to conjure weapons - he can summon and throw dozens of swords and daggers at you at the same time.

No Caption Provided

Sounds familiar? Yeah, something a superior version of Thor couldn't handle either. Phase 1 Thor hardly has a good answer for this too.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The only character I don't believe will be instancrushed or overwhelmed by Ares's display of telekinesis is Hulk. But I've got answer for him coming as well. Either way, with telekinesis alone, Ares can shrink Avengers team in seconds. I really can't see how would they be able to defend against this.

Aerokinesis

Ares can also control weather. He can create his own, miniature tornados, powerful enough to blow away Wonder Woman's attacks, and even push her back enough to struggle to maintain her position. This is pretty impressive, considering that several stationary high caliber machine guns could not move Wonder Woman one inch.

Ares creates a whirlwind powerful enough to blow away Wonder Woman's attacks and push her back.
Ares creates a whirlwind powerful enough to blow away Wonder Woman's attacks and push her back.
The same Wonder Woman can't be moved an inch by high caliber machine guns pounding at her shield.
The same Wonder Woman can't be moved an inch by high caliber machine guns pounding at her shield.

That's some pretty intense wind. Probably not enough to blow away Thor or Hulk, but the human fodder, again, will get overwhelmed in a second and sent flying. It's also a good counter to Hulk's thunderclap / Thor's whirlwind control, if my opponent was planning on bringing those to the table.

Pyrokinesis

Another scary power Ares has up his sleeve, is his pyrokinesis. He can make his body, fe. his hands and fingers reach absurd temperatures, becoming weapons in themselves. Anything Ares touches, when he uses his pyrokinesis, doesn't just melt, but turns to dust. Even weapons of gods, like the Sword of Athena gets scorched instantly.

Sword of Athena turns to dust in contact with Ares's hand, when he uses pyrokinesis.
Sword of Athena turns to dust in contact with Ares's hand, when he uses pyrokinesis.

Ares can even melt his own, divine armor with his fire touch - and I've already shown how much this armor can take with little effort.

Ares can use pyrokinesis to melt and shape his own, divine armor.
Ares can use pyrokinesis to melt and shape his own, divine armor.

This is a good counter to any character in my opponent's team, who has high durability and/or armor. I don't think Phase 1 Thor, Iron man and Hulk have the durability feats to withstand extreme amounts of heat like this. Ares can literally just blink behind them using teleport, and put his million degree finger through their skull. We've already seen that pyrokinesis is a good counter to highly durable armors, like the Iron Man armor, didn't we?

No Caption Provided

Divine lightning

Finally, let's finish with Ares's most powerful weapon yet - his divine lightning. First of all, in large contrast to Thor's lightning, Ares's lightning is not just electricity, but high level, divine magic. This becomes more clear in the Shazam movie, when magic is also represented with lightning, and used to variety of effects. Ares's lightning is no different.

Ares uses his lightning to cast illusions, and use telepathy.

No Caption Provided

He can create an energy projectile, store it in his hand and throw it like a spear:

No Caption Provided

He can use it create massive explosions of energy, that would likely kill most of the MCU team here:

No Caption Provided

Most importantly, though, he has the god killing lightning beam. This is by far Ares's most powerful attack, so I'm gonna stop here for a moment, and explain just how absurdly powerful it is:

Ares conjures his god killing lightning beam, as he decides to stop toying with Diana and kill her. This is his final move, powerful enough to one shot a god.
Ares conjures his god killing lightning beam, as he decides to stop toying with Diana and kill her. This is his final move, powerful enough to one shot a god.

When the lightning beam is fired at Wonder Woman, she deflects it back at Ares using bracelets of Zeus, and Ares is killed with his own, overwhelming power. This alone makes this attack absurdly impressive. We've just seen Ares can unreal amounts of punishment and shrug off massive explosions to the face with no damage. But we can actually measure how strong the attack was too. You see, it didn't just kill Ares, the attack left a massive crater in the ground, vaporizing a huge chunk of landscape in an instant. There was little to no rubble surrounding the crater, which confirms this reliably. Vaporizing matter requires crazy amounts of energy. How impressive is that? Let's see a proper calc:

I'm borrowing a very reliable calc from nightmare52. Take a look:

****************************************************************************************************

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Ares summoned lightning and used it against Diana .

Diana absorbed that lightning and used it against Ares and destroyed the land mass behind him.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

so , the volume of soil/rock that got destroyed is 2390.05 m^3.

The soil/rocks density rangers from 2600 - 3450 kg/m^3.

So the average of the density is 3025 kg/m^3.

So the weight of the soil/rock is around 7229901.25 kg.

5717250 kg of SiO2 has 7.2467 x 10^31 SiO2 molecules .

Minimum Energy Required :

If lightning had vaporized the land mass it should have provided more than bond dissociation energy.

The bond dissociation energy of Si-O is 798kj/mol = 1.3251x10^-18 joules.

The ENERGY required to break 5717250 kg of rock is 7.2467 *1.3251 x10^13 is 9.6026 X 10^13 joules = 96 terajoules.

So Ares Lightning should have produced MINIMUM of 96 Terajoules.

Maximum Energy Required :

If Ares Lightning destroyed the rock by disintegrating it .

It should have destroyed the Sio2 molecule.

Energy required to destroy single sio2 molecule :

Weight of 1 sio2 molecule = 60.08/(6.022 x 10^23 ) = 9.9767 x 10^-26 kg.

Energy required to destroy single sio2 = MC^2 = 9.9767 x 10^-26 x 9 x 10^16 = 89.79 x 10 ^-10 joules.

5717250 kg of SiO2 has 7.2467 x 10^31 SiO2 molecules .

To destroy 7229901.25 kg of SiO2 = 7.2467 x 10^31 x 89.79 x 10 ^-10 = 650.68 x 10^21 joules.

So Ares Lightning should have produced MAXIMUM of 650.68 zettajoules.

So Ares Lightning should have 96 terajoules to 650.68 zettajoules.

****************************************************************************************************

So depending on whether the rock-mass in the crater was vaporized or disintegrated, Ares's energy potency can vary from a decent nuke (96 terajoules) to a large island/country level feat (650 zettajoules). A highball of this calc may seem unreasonable, but it actually isn't. It actually is consistent with how Olympian gods in DCEU are portrayed.

For example, I'm sure you remember that Zeus was able to create a large Island even on his deathbed.

Zeus has enough reality warping power to create a large Island even when dying.
Zeus has enough reality warping power to create a large Island even when dying.

And Zeus was defeated by Ares, so these two are clearly comparable in overall power. And even though it's reality warping, not straight destructive capacity, it's still true that Olympain gods such as Zeus and Ares were portrayed as Island level beings prior to the lightning feat.

Another example, is Zeus's lightning separating unified Mother Boxes.

Zeus's lightnig has the energy potency to separate unified Mother Boxes.
Zeus's lightnig has the energy potency to separate unified Mother Boxes.

This was a feat that Superman's and Cyborg's full power was needed to replicate in the Justice League movie. In short, prime DCEU Superman was not enough to replicate this feat alone. And he was stated to be a planetary threat by Bruce Wayne, has overpowered the World Engine, pounding him in the face with a gravity torrent powerful enough to reshape a planet, and also has moved tectonic plates off screen. In other words, Superman has been portrayed as Island+ and even higher level being in the past, and yet, separating Mother Boxes is supposedly a task he can't perform alone. But Zeus's lightning, the same lightning that Ares have survived, can do it quite easily.

Lightning that defeated Ares had to be even stronger then that. So all of this context considered, a calc that puts the lightning on Island, or even a country level in energy potency, should not really seem out of the question. It's actually quite logical, that it had to be this powerful to get the job done.

Still, I don't even need Ares's lighting to be this powerful.

Even if we take the lowend of the calc as more accurate, it's still more powerful than Hiroshima bomb:

Low end of the Ares's lighting calc : 96 terajoule (or 23 kiloton)

Hiroshima nuke: 63 terajoule (or 15 kiloton)

And I don't think anyone can argue Avengers can survive being nuked. Even P1 Thor and Hulk don't have feats to survive a nuke.

In short, whether we highball, or lowball Ares's lightning feats it is still an instant one for for the entire MCU team, and Thor's lightning is nowhere near enough to compare here. Like I mentioned, Thor's lightning is regular electricty, both by his own claim, and by effects that we see it has. And regular lightning, although badass, is not really that powerful when it comes to energy output.

No Caption Provided

A quick google search will tell you, that an average sky to earth lightning carries energy equivalent of about 250 kg of TNT. That's plenty enough to run an opened fridge for an entire day. Maybe when Thor channels for a while he can achieve an effect closer to a multiplication on this. Best I've seen Phase 1 Thor do with his lightning is electrocute two leviathans, which are comparable in size to a whale. It probably takes quite a lot of energy to do that, but not nearly comparable to a nuke, let alone to an Island-level energy output. In short, Thor can in no way replicate Ares's lightning. Not only is Ares's lightning magic, while Thor's electricity, but also gap between their energy output is massive. Ares's lightning hits like a concentrated nuclear bomb, Thor's lightning would make your house run for free for a short while. The difference should be obvious.

Why Ares wins?

  1. Ares has excellent physical strength feats. Easily enough hang out with MCU Phase 1 high tiers such as Hulk, Iron man and Thor and not get overwhelmed.

  2. Ares's durability is absurd. He has self-regenerating, godly armor, we've seen him take no damage from massive energy blasts and strikes from bloodlusted Wonder Woman. He is also both stated and showed to be immortal to anything but divine magic, that MCU clearly is lacking.

  3. Ares scales much higher than anyone in the MCU team when it comes to both reaction and combat speed. He is also able to fly, teleport around, appearing instantly behind you, and phase through matter. This is giving him incredible mobility advantage over MCU team, and making their numbers advantage useless. There is no reason why he can't blitz here.

  4. Ares can one shot MCU team with telekinesis. It's perfect for crushing the fodder instantly, and proved to be a good counter to Thor in the past.

  5. Ares can one shot MCU team using his divine lightning powers. I've shown calcs putting his full power blast at AT THE VERY LEAST 23 kiloton of TNT, which is more powerful than Hiroshima nuke.

  6. Ares can one shot anyone in the MCU team, even through their enormous durability and decent armors by using his insane pyrokinesis, that melts even divine weapons and armor, let alone flesh. Relistically speaking, he can just blink to anyone using teleport and put a finger through their head.

  7. Ares has a stunning advantage when it comes to versatility. On top of all the powers mentioned, he also can control the wind to great effects, use illusions and telepathy, combine his telekinesis with weapon conjuration to achieve an effect similar to Hela's necro-blades spam, and much, much more.

Your turn
Your turn
Avatar image for limitless82
Limitless82

1076

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

T4V

Avatar image for hermes1220
HERMES1220

2692

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

TAEP and T4V

Avatar image for deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860
deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860

527

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@comicgirl21: Cool opener,I'll make my post as soon as possible.

Avatar image for turr
Turr

1257

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@comicgirl21: thanks for the tag. Great post CG, you made your arguments very well both in quality and quantity. Can't wait for a response to this. Good luck guys

Avatar image for god-thanatos1
God-Thanatos1

304

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I see this is an absolute win .................... for Ares

Avatar image for supremegeneration
SupremeGeneration

13775

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

I... okay.

Avatar image for joshtaku
JoshTaku

651

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Good case for ares. Now looking forward to how the avengers will do

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@supremegeneration: hmm? Is that a T4V I see or are you just happy to see me... doing justice to Ares? :^)

Avatar image for bayman007
Bayman007

4143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Nice opener! TAEP

Avatar image for deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860
deactivated-5ddaa91b5f860

527

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Great opening, TAEP.

Avatar image for limitless82
Limitless82

1076

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Very nice opening. Looking forward to see how eri would/could counter every points

Avatar image for jaylinfreeman
JaylinFreeman

649

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

TAEP. Good opening btw.

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

hey thanks y'all guys! I'm glad you liked the post.

@eri123 by the way, can we agree to some general time frame for this? Since we're CaV'ing over movie characters, this shouldn't be a demanding CaV, and I have like 3 unfinished CaV's already. How about each of us gets 2 weeks in-between posts? Any longer than that = concession. How's that sound? Fair enough?

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@comicgirl21: Ok,I'll start working on this CaV since I finished with the other one.My next week is all free.

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@eri123: it's all right, I didnt mean to rush you. Im just tired of waiting for CaV posts for 3 months so Id rather set time limits beforehand. It's by no means about you specifically.

Good luck with your opening! Kick that Ares's overpowered ass bro :)

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By eri123
No Caption Provided

Not gonna make an introduction for them to make this as short as possible,everyone knows who they are.

Thor

Hulk

I'm not going to do the others since Hulk and Thor are the MVP's.The other avengers serve as a distraction.

Now on to your post.

Intellect,skill and experience

None of the Avengers has the experience to compete with him.

Not really,Thor has probably fought dozens to hundreds of battles himself,and the version of Diana that Ares fought barely had any experience herself only training and she ended up beating him.

Slaughtering all of the Olympian gods single-handedly.

That is cool and all but most of the olympian gods are featless and we don't know how Ares defeated them,he might have accomplished this with prep.

Defeating Steppenwolf in his prime, and forcing him and his armies to retreat from Earth.

He didn't defeat Stepp and his army alone,he had Zeus,Artemis and ally armies.And the axe didn't look like it pierced the armor since we see sparks.

Toying with Wonder Woman, both in her regular and god-amped state, and completely outmatching her in terms of skill and power ( prior to Diana mastering the power of love, when she eventually overpowered him)

Toying,that's a big problem for Ares here,since he is in character he will be toying with 2 people that are stronger than Diana.

Before Wonder Woman mastered the power of love, her fight against Ares was completely one sided. Ares easily ragdolls her around, both in H2H and with his skill in weapons.

Not true,Wonder Woman defeated Ares in CQC.

On top of being an expert in the art of war overall he is a master in personal combat. He's been shown use his weapons with extreme proficiency, and is a beast in hand to hand combat. Having the edge in experience I don't think any MCU character here can claim to be his superior in combat.

He lost to Diana in CQC,who's best skill feats are beating some german soldiers while being massively superior in stats.Thor on the other hand has beating some of the best SHiELD agents in human form.Thor is also stronger than Ares.

Physical strength and durability

Ares takes a beating from bloodlusted "god-amped" Diana with a smile - then one shots her with a casual punch.

He didn't one shot her.

The fact that overpowering Wonder Woman is so easy to him is particularly impressive, considering how strong Diana is, even at this point in the story. She is able to take down a large church belltower with a shield-bash, which is easily a building level feat.

Diana can also easily lift tens of tons worth of tank over her head, and she doesn't even notice it's weight - she literally starts to day-dream while she is holding the tank above her head.

She can also basically run through thick, concrete walls without slowing down.

Those are not impressive for someone on the level of Thor or Hulk.Even Iron Man can replicate them,he was punching

So yeah, casually overpowering Wonder Woman easily puts Ares on the strength level of anyone in the MCU team, if not above them. I don't think they can ever hope to simply out-muscle him. It's not happening.

He never casually overpowered Wonder Woman,their strength is at the same level.

When it comes to durability of Ares's armor and his divine body, it follows Ares's impressive strength. Like I stated above, he can take a beating from Wonder Woman right in the face and laugh it off. He allowed Wonder Woman to land probably a dozen of strikes or more at him, but we clearly see he didn't even get the nosebleed from all that.

Bloodlusted, god-amped Wonder Woman pounds Ares right in the face with zero effects.

Taking a beating from that Wonder Woman is not impressive,with a bullrush she just bended a small part of an armored truck,her punches are even weaker..Dozens of strikes?She only punched him two times.

She wasn't amped there,only in the last moments of the fight when she put up that magic shield.

Speed, mobility and teleportation

Ares's speed is comparable to Wonder Woman's. We've already seen in this thread Ares easily tagging Diana on many occasions, some times mid-strike, which proves he has the combat speed to keep up with her just fine. In many regards, he can considered faster than her, which I'll prove later. Anyway, this is impressive, considering Wonder Woman, even prior to JL, was a casual bullet timer.

She can be surrounded by thugs taking fire on her from all directions and she completely no-sells it.

She can follow a bullet with her eyes and movements.

She can even aim with bullets she deflects - make them come back to their source.

Nobody in the Avengets team has the combat speed to keep up with Ares, based on that alone. Yes, some of the Avengers were able to REACT to bullets and similar projectiles. But when it comes to combat speed? And moving, attacking, blocking at the speed of the bullets? No, not even close.

Ares failed to perceive Diana running away from the big rock she was going to get buried in.

He also failed to react to Diana here.

Here again.

Hulk has good combat speed tho.Thor scales to him too.These two can keep up with Ares and kill him in CQC.

Not even Quicksilver, who was portrayed as overwhelmingly faster than all Phase 1 Avengers, is a casual bullet timer. After all, he died to bullets, which Wonder Woman would block, deflect or dodge like a walk in the park, probably even direct them back where they came from.

Quicksilver is clearly too fast for even the fastest Phase 1 Avengers, such as Captain America and Thor, to react. They all move in slow motion to him, and can't track his movements.

And yet, Quicksilver himself isn't even a casual bullet timer. Clearly, actual bullet timers like Diana, and, by scaling, Ares, would have no issues blitzing Avengers as well.

Quicksilver is a casual bullet timer,here we see him perceive and move his head at the same speed as a bullet.Klaw shoots at him and he reacts ,unloads and dismantles his gun.He died to bullets cause he was getting tired of being so high in the air,he even stops one moment in the movie and rests.

Not really,Iron Man has reacted to a tank shell which are faster than bullets.

Ares isn't faster than Diana as I have shown.

Next, Ares has the ability to fly, which gives him a major mobility advantage. Only two characters in the MCU team can fly - so having basic knowledge about the Avengers Ares can easily use this to his advantage. If he ever feels like they are too much for him all at once, he can just fly up, and attack the team from above with his range attacks and magic. Only Thor and Iron man can follow him - which cuts my opponents team clean in half when it comes to power, and even more so when it comes to numbers.

Ok,he flies then Thor shoots lighting at him and brings him down.

On top of all that, one o Ares's divine powers is his ability to instantly disappear in a cloud of smoke, and re-appear anywhere else, which is effectively a teleportation/instant transmission technique, that can be even used in a middle of combat. Ares needs no charging time for this. Thor takes aim at him - and POOF - he disappears and appears behind him for a free strike, like he did here to Diana:

But Ares barely uses his teleportation in battle.

On top of Ares's superior speed and flight, this gives him a STUNNING field advantage. We also see he is able to maintain somewhat in-between state. He is able to move around as a specter, intangible, phasing through objects and matter.

He has limited showings using this, but even if he can't fight in this form, he can still use it to buy time, to phase through walls or to dodge attacks.

That's not phasing,he is just teleporting hence the smoke when he appears and disappears.

Reality warping

Now that we have most of the core stats out of the way, let's move to the hax and versatility Ares brings to the table. First of all, Ares can transmute matter to summon his divine gear from scraps around, at will: Conjuring weapons, armor and other equipment he might need instantly.

And yes, the weapons and armor Ares summons actually do have the magic traits and durability of his standard olympian gear. I've already shown that Wonder Woman, who has strength to walk through concrete and bust buildings, couldn't put a dent on Ares's armor. His swords were also creating massive damage across the battlefield, which is something regular weapons wouldn't be able to replicate without breaking.

Even if they were enchanted they still basically featless,I mean even if Ares used some scrap metal he can cut WW who is weak to piercing lol.

WW striking is nothing compared to Thor's with Mjolnir,Hulk and Iron Man.

What massive damage did they do,they only broke some rock but Ares' strength also helped.

Immortality

Only a god can kill another god is a NLF.Do you believe a very powerful comic character like Galactus can't kill him cause he is not a god?

By god Ares could just mean a very powerful being which what Thor and Hulk are.

I mean Wonder Woman killed him and she is not a goddess.

Telekinesis

Yeah,he can beat all the avengers but Thor and Hulk with that ability I agree.

Maw restrained Thor cause he was already beat up by Thanos.

If Ares sends big rocks at the Avengers Thor can just blast them with lighting like he did to Jotunheim.

Thor blasts all those scrap swords too.Don't even compare them to Hela's blades which were able to cut Surtur,Uru armor etc.

Aerokinesis

Thor shows him a true tornado.

No Caption Provided

Pyrokinesis

Sword of Athena turns to dust in contact with Ares's hand, when he uses pyrokinesis.

The Sword of Athena is the one that Diana uses against DD and Stepp,Godkiller is the sword Ares melted which it's only feat is cutting wood.

This is a good counter to any character in my opponent's team, who has high durability and/or armor. I don't think Phase 1 Thor, Iron man and Hulk have the durability feats to withstand extreme amounts of heat like this. Ares can literally just blink behind them using teleport, and put his million degree finger through their skull. We've already seen that pyrokinesis is a good counter to highly durable armors, like the Iron Man armor, didn't we?

Thor tanked the Bifrost explosion and the Destroyer explosion.I think that's a good energy durability to say he can resist Ares' unquantifiable thermokinesis.

Proof that his thermokinesis is a million degree?

Lighting

Finally, let's finish with Ares's most powerful weapon yet - his divine lightning.

Wasn't his TK the most powerful?

Ares uses his lightning to cast illusions, and use telepathy.

But he needs to touch people or with an object which is connected to that person as we see at that gif with his lighting to put them under an illusion,and we have never seen him put more than 1 person at a time so if an avenger gets TP another one will help him.

Those lighting blast that he fired,well one of them couldn't even fully destroy that car in the gif,and the other couldn't even destroy some of the wood as we see them flying,Ares uses those same wood pieces with TK against Wonder Woman later,remember?So Ares' normal lighting blasts are pathetic.

Ah yes that big lighting,unfortunately it takes a long time to conjure that,any of the Avengers can hit him while is doing that.Thor hits him with Mjolnir which he has no blunt durability feats to tank or Hulk just punches him.

I don't trust fan calcs,you probably shouldn't too,especially one from Nightmare52 which is known as very biased DCEU fanboy I think.

Does that look more powerful than a nuke or freaking island level?

Not even going to talk about Superman massive outlier newspaper tectonic feat.

Why the Avengers win

  1. If Ares goes CQC Thor can beat him since he more skill,is stronger,more durable,comparable speed Thor is faster in reaction and travel speed,and has a better weapon.Hulk can also beat him cause of superior strength,blunt and piercing durability and Ares' weak blunt durability.

  2. Ares has a lot of abilities sure,but as I have shown and you aswell they only will do anything to the fodder Avengers.His abilites are also slow and weak in potency,his most powerful attacks are TK which can be countered by lighting and Ares' lighting which leaves him wide open for an attack.

@comicgirl21

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for rajjarsalt
RajjarsAlt

1925

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 RajjarsAlt  Online

TAEP

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@eri123: great! :) Thanks for putting up a good fight. I'll have a response soon.

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By ComicGirl21

Post 2 - Counters!

The God of War - theme for the fight

Loading Video...

"Let's see what kind of god you really are..."

Initial Counters: Let's talk 'bout some of the feats for Thor and Hulk

Thor

Hits Cap's shield with Mjolnir and knocks a massive section of the forest.

We see Thor added lightning to this strike against the shield (it appears when he touches the shield) so it's not just physical strength feat. Also, for an explosion it's not that impressive, neither the radius, nor the destruction was significant. Definitely not bigger than explosions I showed you that Ares can completely no-sell.

Can you quantify that, at least roughly, and tell me why would that be impressive in this scenario? Like I said in my original post, Ares has stood in the very center of several massive explosions, one of them caused by dozens of bombs exploding at the same time straight in his face, which created a fireball hundreds of feet tall, knocked Wonder Woman hundreds of feet back and briefly KO'd her - and it didn't have any effect on Ares at all.

I mean if it slightly hurt him then I guess you could argue that an explosion twice as powerful or ten times as powerful or something would be enough to kill him. But again, it didn't even bother him in the slightest. Ares's tolerance for heat and energy damage is absurd.

He is not an alien like Thor, he is A GOD.

Like here, when he is willingly standing in a middle of an explosion, taking a stroll through the flames and crafting his red-hot armor straight onto his bare skin and it clearly is not even tickling him.

No Caption Provided

Like I said, to hurt Ares with energy, you don't only need it to be divine magic, but literally nuclear amounts of it. If you are really suggesting this can hurt him, you really need to back it up a lot better.

Tears off Iron Man mask like nothing.

It's just breaking some metal. I showed Ares creating a fissure in concrete a couple dozen feet long and cutting a vehicle in half all in one strike. This is a fodder feat of strength by comparison.

Crushes Iron Man's armor.Thor did this while he was weakened by dark energy Odin used to teleport him to Earth.This was comfirmed in the canon comic.

Again, fodder feat.

This suit was very durable as it could survive being grinded up in the Helicarrier.

Can you quantify it to prove it's impressive? And even if you quantify it to be hella impressive, it's still an armor made of regular metals like gold and titanium, isn't it? Ares can tear metal to shreds with a thought, and disintegrate it with a touch.

Reacts to Chitauri fire.

Reaction speed =/= combat speed. Yes, I noted Thor's and Cap's reaction speed is not half bad. I did take it into consideration in my opening post. It won't be enough to keep up with someone who has combat speed on the level of Diana, a.k.a casual bullet level though, and on top of that, has instantaneous teleport and casual flight. Both Hulk and even yes, even Thor has none of these. Even his flight is extremely sketchy, I mean he has to swing his hammer and/or throw it whenever he wants to as much as change direction mid air. There is a reason why Thor had all of his major villain fights on the ground (Loki, Kurse, Malekith, Hela) because Thor's flight is more of a way of transportation for him.

In any case, you are yet to prove how is Thor even tagging Ares. With the amount of speed and mobility advantage Ares has, Thor simply can't tag him, even if he could hit like a nuke.

Reacts to Loki's Scepter blast.This scepter is very fast capable of reaching cloud level in about 1 sec.

We can casually follow the beam with our eyes. It's not even FTE, otherwise it would appear as a continuous laser beam, not a blast. Again, it's simply not that fast. We see Hawkeye and many other human characters with human reactions, reacting to this blast countless times.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Blocks beams from the Destroyer.

And how fast would these be? humans and ice giants can't react to it, but they hardly have any meaningful speed themselves.

No sells this massive explosion that dwarfs building and makes a shockwave that streches outside the town.

Unquantifiable. Explosion shockwave did nothing to human characters that were standing just below it, witnessing Thor fight. None of the wooden buildings were damaged either. Destroyer doesn't contain explosives so whatever exploded was asgardian hax in nature, not a TNT equivalent. The explosion did not have any physically quantifiable source nor did it have any notable consequences that regular RL explosions have, so it is not quantifiable at all, we'll never know how strong it was. Also we're not even sure where was Thor exactly when destroyer exploded. Moments after explosion he is already on the ground. Maybe he was below him already when he exploded and the shockwave didn't even touch him as well. We don't really know.

Tanks Bifrost explosion with no damage.

That would be a pretty nice feat, but then again, Loki was also completely unharmed by the explosion of Bifrost too, and he is not a particularly durable character when it comes to energy penalties. Even Hawkeye's explosive arrow seems to be hurting him, at least somewhat - he doesn't seem unfazed after taking it, he even seemed to be briefly KO'd.

No Caption Provided

This and the context for Bifrost bridge suggest that again, the feat is not really quantifiable. Bifrost contains no explosives as well, like the bombs Ares tanked. The explosion is alien technology exploding, not a bomb or something, it's hax in nature. It also didn't destroy anything quantifiable/physical in nature when it exploded, like Ares's lightning did, which evaporated a large chunk of soil. Explosion breaking rainbow bridge is hardly quantifiable. For example, we see the bridge being damaged both by Fenris just running on it, and Grandmasters ship gunfire - so it's durability is actually pretty shady, and hard to pinpoint.

No Caption Provided

Summons a lighting strike on Jotunheim and destroys a massive amount of ice for hundreds of feet.

Alright! Now you're talking. It's actually a pretty decent feat. Imo it's the best feat Thor has, to be honest. It's worth noting though, that it combines Mjolnir striking power with lightning strike. Thor strikes the hammer into the ground with lightning coming from above. So he can not replicate this force with just lightning alone. It's a hybrid strike. Still, it's a far cry from my calc for Ares's lightning, so even if Thor somehow would be able to land a Mjolnir+lightning such as this on Ares without him teleporting away/moving away by using superior speed, it's still not gonna be enough to hurt him, let alone kill him.

It was also proven in the script that the shockwave of Thor's attack reached to his comrades disproving the idea that the ice fell on his own.

If what is in the script is not seen as a part of the movie, it is not of my concern. We agreed to movie feats only (read OP) sorry mate. In the movie/your GIF's we can't see any shockwave that would be reaching Thor's friends, it clearly looked like a chain reaction of ice breaking. Not that it really matters, since it's still not nearly enough energy to hurt Ares. But I'm just bringing this to your attention, to not hype this feat out of proportion.

Destroys 2 Leviathans and a lot of Chitauri ships.Kills another Leviathan in the canon comic.

The last one is not a movie feat. As for the 2 Leviathans he killed, once more - very nice, but is not nearly enough to replicate damage needed to hurt Ares. Also, note that we don't even know if the Leviathans Thor electrocuted died. We just saw them getting hurt (crying) and pushed back. Chitauri ships are pretty easy to explode even with tiny explosives like these Hawkeye carries on his arrows. Again, I'm sending you back to me nuke->island level calc, which is the only instance Ares was ever hurt. This is not nearly enough energy to be competitive here.

Hulk

Stronger than Thor.

The only feat of purely physical strength you've shown for Thor is breaking some small pieces of metal, so...

Throws a boulder thousands of feet away.12

How is that thousands of feet? The boulder disappears from camera view like 20 feet after Hulk throws it. Throwing a rock this size unknown distance is pretty impressive, but compared to Hulk's top feats it's still fodder, so why bring it up?

One shots a Leviathan.

Wrong. Actually Hulk did not one shot this Leviathan. He stopped it in it's tracks and made some of it's armor bend and break off. Tony was the one who killed it, by sending his missile into openings in the armor.

No Caption Provided

So Hulk can't really kill these things alone, and definitely can't one shot them. We later see him work together with Thor to bring another one down for a proof. He stopped it, made it's armor bend, and made it flip on it's head. With Iron man's help, they killed it together. But that's all. It's a very good feat, but still, you need to keep the hype in check.

These things can go through skycrapers with ease.

Yes it is pretty impressive, Busting through building walls is impressive for Leviathans. However, their weight is usually largely overestimated. Judging their size and armor they must be pretty heavy, but they are hovering and moving by using unknown technology, and they don't have to be THAT heavy to simply go through concrete walls. Anyway, we see that when they die they stop hovering, and we see one collapse on a building roof without breaking it - so they are NOT thousands of tons, they are hardly even hundreds. If they were, several floors would break, if not the whole building. Average roof can only hold about 20 pounds per sq foot (or 29 kg per sq meter).

No Caption Provided

Anyway, the fact that they can break straight through building walls with ease is still something. BUT it's also what Diana could casually do, and her strength was not nearly enough to give Ares as much as a nose bleed. So no, Hulk's strength won't be enough here as well. Like I said above, if Diana pounding Ares in her bloodlust over Steve Trevor's death, would make Ares at least bleed or get a bruise, we could talk this through. But Ares seems completely immune to blunt force strikes on this level, so even if Hulk is somewhat stronger than bloodlusted Diana judging by this feat, it simply won't be effective.

I'll give you benefit of the doubt, even though you didn't bring any releavant calcs to talk through - maybe, MAYBE if we assume Hulk is much stronger than Diana, Ares can actually bleed if Hulk attacks him long enough. Let's assume he pounds him on the face for a while or grabs him by the feet and gives him a Loki treatment. Okay, let's assume he's hurt a bit. I mean he is clearly much more durable than Loki, who took the trial pretty well - but let's assume he is KINDA hurt.

No Caption Provided

But will he DIE? Really? Based on WHAT? No. There is no basis to think that. Especially considering how hard would it be to land any strikes on him for the Hulk - Ares can fly, teleport, and is much faster you know. In the end, this will simply not help you. Hulk's strength IS impressive, but it's clearly not the answer to killing the God of War. It's not enough.

No sells 25 milimeter gunfire.

Takes a kick from Abomination that sends through a building.

Hulk's durability is actually all around very good. I agree here. This is why I said Ares won't one shot him with telekinesis, like he can the rest of the team. Still, Hulk can not tank Ares's lightning, especially if he amps it up to his "god-killing" blast, so Ares can easily kill him too.

Reacts to an RPG 7
Sorry. Not a movie feat. It doesn't change much though, RPG's are a third of a bullet fast.

Slaps a Chitauri ship.

Again, they are pretty easy to tag and blow up even with slow projectiles and small explosives. These ships are fodder.

No Caption Provided

While Abomination is in the middle of swinging a chain to attack Hulk, Hulk rises to his feet, and smashes the ground before Abomination can move any notable distance.

Sorry, but this is wrong. Hulk is not making all of that movement in the middle of Abomination's swing. It's just the way the scene is shot. First - it shows abomination taking a swing - then it shows Hulk getting up and making his move. But if Hulk actually said "Hulk....SMASH" in the middle of Abomination swinging, he would sound like a squirrel, talking at hyper speed. We even see fire and sparkles in the background of the Hulk, moving at normal speed. Hell, we see Liv Tyler character move her head in normal speed while all of this is happening. So this is not all happening at hyper-speeds in the middle of Abomination's swing. Sorry, it doesn't make any sens that way. It's not an unusual reaction or combat speed feat for Hulk. It's just that this scene was shot in a confusing way. This movie wasn't particularly well shot.

Should be noted that Abom can react to a missile.

Actually, that's a pretty good reaction speed for Hulk, scaling him to abomination. It's not half bad. Still, like I mentioned above, RPG missiles top speed is 660 MPH, which is barely a third of the speed of a low caliber bullet from a handgun, so it's not even bullet level reactions, and it has nothing on Ares's combat speed.

I'm not going to do the others since Hulk and Thor are the MVP's.

I'm glad we agree on this. Yes, Hulk and Thor are the real challengers here, the rest is really fodder to a true god that is Ares. He will likely one shot all of the MCU team with telekinesis instantly. If he can break thousands of tons of rock with his mind, he can break bodies with human durability as well.

The other avengers serve as a distraction.

To be a distraction, you'd have to prove how can they distract him. They can't do anything to hurt him, and he can one shot them in all manner of ways. They will be simply side causalities here. Again, what's keep Ares from just breaking their bodies with telekinesis the first second battle starts?

Now on to your post.

My soul is ready. Hit me.

No Caption Provided

Intellect, skill and experience: Counters

None of the Avengers has the experience to compete with him.

Not really,Thor has probably fought dozens to hundreds of battles himself,

In Infinity War Thor reveals that he is 1500 years old. That's nothing compared to Ares's age and experience. Also what major wars did he take part in? He wasn't around when Odin conquered the 9 realms or beat the Ice giants. All battles we ever see him take part in are the ones in the movies, and Phase 1 Thor hardly has an impressive record in comparison to Ares. He beat a few dozen ice giants, beat destroyer, a couple dozen chitauri units and monsters, and his brother Loki, twice. In other words, he only ever beat his much weaker brother, a neigh-featless machine and armies of fodder at that point.

All we get is that, and his age, which is 1500 years. Is that comparable track record to Ares who can remember the birth of humanity as a recent event, so he is tens of thousands years old at the very least, also who is responsible for every single war and battle throughout the history, and personally defeated countless gods by himself, including powerhouses such as Artemis, Zeus, Steppenwolf, and (prior to love-amp) Diana? No it's really not.

and the version of Diana that Ares fought barely had any experience herself only training and she ended up beating him. Can you tell me exactly what training

Okay okay okay... Hold on just a second. How is amazonian training "barely any experience"?

No Caption Provided

I'll tell you what training alright. Let's get a couple things straight before this gets out of hand.

First, Thor is 1500, while Diana herself is many times older than Thor. She was born of Zeus, who died to Ares in ancient times so she must be at least THOUSANDS of years old. And how did she spend all of that time? Literally in a one gigantic training montage. She spent her thousands of years on constant harsh training among a race of immortal, superhuman warriors, interested in nothing but combat. We even see Diana is ordered to be trained many times "longer and harder than any warrior before her". And amazonian training is no joke. They have no safety rules.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

We see them punch and hit each other right in the jaw, take aim with actual lethal weapons on each other etc. They are very closely replicating actual combat conditions. That's some freakin serious training to be doing for thousands of years.

"Never let your guard down! You expect battle to be fair?!" That's some of the quotes we get from her training.

No, sorry. We have no reason to believe Diana's training was fodder. It was an intense training closely resembling actual battles, that lasted for thousands of years. Matching and surpassing Diana in skill is a very good feat for Ares. Trying to turn it on it's head is pretty silly of you.

Can you tell me when do we exactly see Thor train? All we ever see him do in Asgard is walk around and party.

No Caption Provided

Slaughtering all of the Olympian gods single-handedly.

That is cool and all but most of the olympian gods are featless

How are they featless? I mean we see several olympian gods in direct action, like (obviously) Wonder Woman, Zeus, Ares, or Artemis, and they are all capable of absurdly impressive feats.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
Olympians are NOT fodder. They are actual gods. We constantly see them performing amazing feats easily on par with kryptonians and other DCEU high tiers.
Olympians are NOT fodder. They are actual gods. We constantly see them performing amazing feats easily on par with kryptonians and other DCEU high tiers.

We even see a couple more gods represented in the powers of Shazam (For example, Shazam has the strenght of Hercules, who like Diana is half olympian, and speed of Hermes, who is an olympian god) and Shazam is crazy fast and strong. He has plenty of his own feats, and is comparable to other DCEU characters like Superman and Flash - so we know that even Olympians who were completely off-screen were not fodder. Power Shazam inherited from them is very impressive.

Olympian strength of Shazam shown to be comparable to Superman's in the
Olympian strength of Shazam shown to be comparable to Superman's in the "Shazam!" ending credits

Olympian speed of Shazam shown to be comparable to Flash's in the
Olympian speed of Shazam shown to be comparable to Flash's in the "Shazam!" ending credits

In short, Olympians are not featless or fodder. They don't have a lot of screen time, but we know they are powerhouses, we have no reason to believe otherwise based on their showings and feats. And Ares slaughtered them all, by himself. It's an excellent feat for Ares, trying o lowball it makes no sens, it is clearly meant to be crazy impressive.

and we don't know how Ares defeated them,he might have accomplished this with prep.

Whatever do you mean? What kind of prep? How do you prep for a CQC battle? I mean we know how he defeated them... we literally see him do it. He went up to Olympus,and slaughtered them. We see him punching, kicking, stabbing other gods to death. And we see other gods are armed and are fighting back. What is the point of trying to twist that around? I have no idea what are you trying to say here.

No Caption Provided

Defeating Steppenwolf in his prime, and forcing him and his armies to retreat from Earth.

He didn't defeat Stepp and his army alone,he had Zeus,Artemis and ally armies.And the axe didn't look like it pierced the armor since we see sparks.

You really trying to nitpick your way into victory here, huh? :) Well Steppenwolf had an army and Ares had an army. So clearly it wasn't a 1vs1 fight, but I never suggested it was. But we do see Ares gets in CQC with Steppenwolf, he is attacking him, parrying his strike and landing a clear blow. Whether or not the blow pierced or not is irrelevant. In the next scene, Steppenwolf is retreating, and the last person we see him fight was Ares, so yeah, saying Ares defeated Steppenwolf is as accurate as it gets. Obviously there were countless other characters involved in that massive battle, but:

we see these two fight - we see Ares gets the upper hand, doding a strike and landing a strike - we see Steppenwolf retreats. I see nothing wrong with the statement Ares is the only largely responsible for Steppenwolfs personal defeat. It's clearly what it's shown.

Toying with Wonder Woman, both in her regular and god-amped state, and completely outmatching her in terms of skill and power ( prior to Diana mastering the power of love, when she eventually overpowered him)

Toying,that's a big problem for Ares here,since he is in character he will be toying with 2 people that are stronger than Diana.

Ares did not want to kill Diana, he didn't even want to fight her. He wanted, NEEDED her on his side. He tries to lure her with his illusions, than when they fight, he tries to teach her how humans are worthless and not worth of her protection. He expresses all of that clearly. There is a reason for him to toy with her. He wants to teach her a lesson. Not kill her.

"My dear, I don't want to fight you" - Ares was trying his best to convince Diana to join him. That's why he is holding back.

When Wonder Woman says she chooses humans and that she believes in love, Ares decides to kill her, and he IMMEDIATELY charges his most powerful attack to one shot her.

When Ares sees Wonder Woman can't be swayed, he instantly goes for the kill.
When Ares sees Wonder Woman can't be swayed, he instantly goes for the kill.

So what is your reason to believe he will hold back against Avengers? Ares NEVER holds back for no reason. Did he hold back against Steppenwolf, or Olympian gods, or Zeus, when he beat them all to a bloody pulp? Did he hold back against Diana, when he decided to kill her? No. And he has no reason to hold back here either. When the fight starts, it's in character for Ares to go straight into rampage and kill Avengers by all means necessary. THAT'S in his character.

Before Wonder Woman mastered the power of love, her fight against Ares was completely one sided. Ares easily ragdolls her around, both in H2H and with his skill in weapons.

Not true,Wonder Woman defeated Ares in CQC.

Too bad you didn't show an entire GIF of that fight sequence, you missed the moment when Ares grabs Diana by the throat like a child, overpowers her, and sends ragdolls her hard enough to break a tank.

No Caption Provided

Sorry, but Ares clearly had the upper hand the entire fight. Diana pulled off a very impressive fight, which is a good feat for her - but Ares ragdolls her around effortlessly none the less, and again, clearly toys with her. She wants to kill him, but he just wants to give her a lesson. He is an entire tier above her.

The only point at which Wonder Woman gained an actual upper hand was at the end, using the power of love, when she gained an anti-telekinesis forcefield, massive boost in stats and such. But unless you can prove anyone in your team can enter a similar state, they are not getting an upper hand on Ares like that.

And in the end, even amped Wonder Woman could not kill Ares. He died by his own hand, with his own power reflected back at him. Without bracelets of Zeus, there is no way anyone in your team repeats that feat.

Even though Diana gained an upper hand in the end, she could not kill Ares - Ares died with a reflection of his own god-killing power-beam. Something Avengers can't hope to replicate.
Even though Diana gained an upper hand in the end, she could not kill Ares - Ares died with a reflection of his own god-killing power-beam. Something Avengers can't hope to replicate.

On top of being an expert in the art of war overall he is a master in personal combat. He's been shown use his weapons with extreme proficiency, and is a beast in hand to hand combat. Having the edge in experience I don't think any MCU character here can claim to be his superior in combat.

He lost to Diana in CQC,

That's false. Like I proved several times now, Ares had the upper hand over Diana the entire fight, until the end, even though she was trying her best to kill him, while he only wanted to teach her a lesson. This statement couldn't be more wrong, and I proved it.

who's best skill feats are beating some german soldiers while being massively superior in stats.

She took small armies of these soldiers solo. It's not a bad feat, like I said above, most of Thor's feats are also against fodder. Diana also beat the best amazonian warrior, and beat Ludendorff, amped with super-serum. So wrong again, she did beat opponents with high stats and skill before. Not to mention all of the experience and skill she has up her sleeve simply because she was training for thousands of years. Trying to lowball Wonder Woman with empty statements like these will do you no good bro!

Thor on the other hand has beating some of the best SHiELD agents in human form.

Did they have any guns? Lol. You realize Hawkeye could shoot him at any moment, and Thor was only alive because Coulson was kinda amused with him, right?

Thor is also stronger than Ares.

Wrong once again. Like I proved above, best feat you've shown for Thor which does not include his lightning amping his strike is against Iron man's armor, which is just regular metal. So far, Ares has by far superior feats of physical strength in this CaV.

Physical strength and durability: Counters

Ares takes a beating from bloodlusted "god-amped" Diana with a smile - then one shots her with a casual punch.

He didn't one shot her.

His punches send her flying a hundred feet away, breaking the fight. That's what I meant. I didn't mean he killed her, obviously. It just shows how much stronger he is than her. Her punches don't even tickle, his single punch is enough to ragdoll her across the battlefield.

The fact that overpowering Wonder Woman is so easy to him is particularly impressive, considering how strong Diana is, even at this point in the story. She is able to take down a large church belltower with a shield-bash, which is easily a building level feat.

Diana can also easily lift tens of tons worth of tank over her head, and she doesn't even notice it's weight - she literally starts to day-dream while she is holding the tank above her head.

She can also basically run through thick, concrete walls without slowing down.

Those are not impressive for someone on the level of Thor or Hulk.Even Iron Man can replicate them,he was punching

Hulk stopped a Leviathan who could bust through walls, so you have the point. But when did ever Thor bust through a wall by just using his strength? Again, I won't dig up Thor's physical strength feats for you, that's your job. Also, I don't recall anyone you mentioned (Hulk, Iron man, Thor) holding something as heavy as a large tank clean above their head with no strain whatsoever. If you have a lifting feat like this for any one of them, show it. For now, Ares clearly has superior strength by feats and scaling.

So yeah, casually overpowering Wonder Woman easily puts Ares on the strength level of anyone in the MCU team, if not above them. I don't think they can ever hope to simply out-muscle him. It's not happening.

He never casually overpowered Wonder Woman,their strength is at the same level.

I showed you several GIF's of Ares effortlessly ragdolling Wonder Woman hundreds of feet with a single strike or motion. And we see Ares is completely unfazed by Wonder Woman hitting him back.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

I clearly proved it to be true. If you are still not convinced, I can't help you. Our voters will decide who's right here.

When it comes to durability of Ares's armor and his divine body, it follows Ares's impressive strength. Like I stated above, he can take a beating from Wonder Woman right in the face and laugh it off. He allowed Wonder Woman to land probably a dozen of strikes or more at him, but we clearly see he didn't even get the nosebleed from all that.

Bloodlusted, god-amped Wonder Woman pounds Ares right in the face with zero effects.

Taking a beating from that Wonder Woman is not impressive,with a bullrush she just bended a small part of an armored truck,her punches are even weaker.

I showed you she can building bust, that's better than anything you've shown for any of your characters. The only feat arguably better is Hulk's, but you didn't even quantify it to prove it. And since Ares is much stronger than Diana, it still doesn't matter. Like I said, I'm not arguying Ares is much stronger than Hulk or Thor, all I said that he will not get easily overpowered, because his feats are clearly just as good, if not more. And I stand by my statement, I don't think you proved me wrong so far.

Dozens of strikes?She only punched him two times.

I meant throughout the fight...

She wasn't amped there,only in the last moments of the fight when she put up that magic shield.

Yes, she was amped there. She was sending shockwaves just by spreading her arms across. Her amp started when Steve Trevor died. And it was still not enough to beat Ares without the "power of love" that she gained at the end.

not amped?
not amped?
and here?
and here?

Speed, mobility and teleportation: Counters

Ares's speed is comparable to Wonder Woman's. We've already seen in this thread Ares easily tagging Diana on many occasions, some times mid-strike, which proves he has the combat speed to keep up with her just fine. In many regards, he can considered faster than her, which I'll prove later. Anyway, this is impressive, considering Wonder Woman, even prior to JL, was a casual bullet timer.

She can be surrounded by thugs taking fire on her from all directions and she completely no-sells it.

She can follow a bullet with her eyes and movements.

She can even aim with bullets she deflects - make them come back to their source.

Nobody in the Avengets team has the combat speed to keep up with Ares, based on that alone. Yes, some of the Avengers were able to REACT to bullets and similar projectiles. But when it comes to combat speed? And moving, attacking, blocking at the speed of the bullets? No, not even close.

Ares failed to perceive Diana running away from the big rock she was going to get buried in.

Fair enough, Diana legitimately was faster than him there.

No Caption Provided

But it's worth noting, that she got out of his sight when he dropped the landmass on her, and she approached him from the sight, using his blind spot. So it's not like he couldn't react simply because she was too fast. He simply didn't see her coming from the side. And even then, he still noticed her at the last second, turned his head right before he got hit. In other words, he could still perceive her, he noticed the attack - he just didn't react in time, because she was coming from a blind spot, that's all.

He also failed to react to Diana here.

Dude, he did not have his guard up, he was laughing outloud in that scene. Wonder Woman was taken over by battle bloodlust, he thought he had her swayed for his anti-human agenda in there, that's why he was so happy and wasn't even trying to dodge. Also, she can't even hurt him, so why would he lol. Anyway, we see him laugh throughout the scene, it's not a serious combat scenario like we have here. Obviously he could've dodged if he wanted to, he tagged her countless times and blocked many of her attacks casually. This is not disproving his speed in any way.

Here again.

Same as the above. He was just toying with her, he is shown staring her down and is not reacting on purpose. He is provoking her to fight, he wants to teach her a lesson. We see him tagging Diana many times without a problem, and dodging her attacks. We really are debating over a nothing-burger here, yes Diana tagged Ares a few times, he tagged her no problems as well - the fact that Ares has speed comparable to Diana's is obvious.

Hulk has good combat speed tho.

That feat is fodder. I already explained it in detail above in Hulk section. The best feat for Hulk you have is reacting to a single RPG missile (Abomination feat), to whom Thor and Hulk can scale, I suppose, but it's not even bullet reaction timing, and when it comes to combat speed, both Hulk and Thor are slowpokes. They will never keep up, at least you didn't prove they can.

Thor scales to him too.These two can keep up with Ares and kill him in CQC.

It's funny, because even if I didn't debunk your feat, how do you imagine your claim to be legitimate? Is Hulk making that smash while Abomination is making a swing really in your eyes comparable to combat speed of Wonder Woman, who can pick bullets from the air like flowers in the park? And even if for some reason Hulk and Thor were exactly as fast as Ares, you still ignore the fact that Ares can teleport, phase and fly. I mean however you debate this, you can't escape the fact that Ares has massive mobility advantage here. Sorry, I don't think you'll convince anyone like this. You certainly didn't convince me.

Not even Quicksilver, who was portrayed as overwhelmingly faster than all Phase 1 Avengers, is a casual bullet timer. After all, he died to bullets, which Wonder Woman would block, deflect or dodge like a walk in the park, probably even direct them back where they came from.

Quicksilver is clearly too fast for even the fastest Phase 1 Avengers, such as Captain America and Thor, to react. They all move in slow motion to him, and can't track his movements.

And yet, Quicksilver himself isn't even a casual bullet timer. Clearly, actual bullet timers like Diana, and, by scaling, Ares, would have no issues blitzing Avengers as well.

Quicksilver is a casual bullet timer,here we see him perceive and move his head at the same speed as a bullet.Klaw shoots at him and he reacts ,unloads and dismantles his gun.He died to bullets cause he was getting tired of being so high in the air,he even stops one moment in the movie and rests.

You can't call someone who died to bullets a casual bullet timer. Yes, Quicksilver has SOME decent feats against bullets, you mentioned some of those. But he was also tagged by bullets on several occasions, or failed to react to them.

Quicksilver tagged by a handgun bullet
Quicksilver tagged by a handgun bullet

And in the end he did died to bullets. He is a bullet timer, but his feats pale in comparison to Diana's, who's been shown reacting to multiple gunman at the same time, even when being surrounded. Also,

Not really,Iron Man has reacted to a tank shell which are faster than bullets.

I hope you are kidding. Tony is not even peak human. Are you suggesting he is faster than enhanced supersoldiers and metahuman aliens like Steve and Thor? I hope you are joking. I mean for one, that was clearly played as a gag. Iron man stares at the tank, tank fires - almost hits him, Iron man hits him back and one shots him. It was a gag moment. Secondly, how do you know tank didn't just miss? Aiming at a target this small with a tank is very tricky. And thirdly even if actually take this seriusly - yes Tony properly dodged a tank shell - Iron man still aim-dodged that bullet. He was waiting for the tank to fire, he was expecting it. It's not comparable to actual bullet-timing multiple shooters and having a bullet level combat speed.

Ares isn't faster than Diana as I have shown.

I won't force this point. They can clearly tag each other. He can be just as fast and it's still more than enough to statue your team.

Next, Ares has the ability to fly, which gives him a major mobility advantage. Only two characters in the MCU team can fly - so having basic knowledge about the Avengers Ares can easily use this to his advantage. If he ever feels like they are too much for him all at once, he can just fly up, and attack the team from above with his range attacks and magic. Only Thor and Iron man can follow him - which cuts my opponents team clean in half when it comes to power, and even more so when it comes to numbers.

Ok,he flies then Thor shoots lighting at him and brings him down.

...what? Why would someone who can stroll through flames, increase his own body temperature to extreme heat and tank massive explosions without blinking be bothered by a lightning strike? Unless you can prove Thor's lightning is magic that hits with a power of a nuke, like I proved for Ares himself and Zeus - the only two characters, who hurt Ares with lightning - Thor's lightning will not bother Ares in the slightest. And it won't.

On top of all that, one o Ares's divine powers is his ability to instantly disappear in a cloud of smoke, and re-appear anywhere else, which is effectively a teleportation/instant transmission technique, that can be even used in a middle of combat. Ares needs no charging time for this. Thor takes aim at him - and POOF - he disappears and appears behind him for a free strike, like he did here to Diana:

But Ares barely uses his teleportation in battle.

Well Thor barely uses tornado's in battle. He used it once, but you brought it up. Hulk barely uses thunderclap in a battle. He used it once, but it's usually brought up. Many feats in movies only happen once. Hulk's leviathan punch only happened once, and there is nothing even remotely comparable for Hulk in the series. But you brought it up. Movies are a limited medium. It's not thousands of pages of manga, it's not hundreds of volumes of comics, it's not a show with hundreds of episodes. In movies most things only happen once, because of limited screen time.

Yes, Ares has limited screen time using teleportation.

He only used it like 3 or 4 times, but he did use it, and we see him using it do dodge Wonder Woman's sword strike. So he CAN use it, and there is no reason why he wouldn't.

Saying "well he probably won't use it" is not a very good counter. You need to structure your arguments a little bit better than this bro.

On top of Ares's superior speed and flight, this gives him a STUNNING field advantage. We also see he is able to maintain somewhat in-between state. He is able to move around as a specter, intangible, phasing through objects and matter.

He has limited showings using this, but even if he can't fight in this form, he can still use it to buy time, to phase through walls or to dodge attacks.

That's not phasing,he is just teleporting hence the smoke when he appears and disappears.

I meant the second GIF. We clearly see him walking around, transparent, phasing through objects. No answer for this either, hmm?

Reality warping: Counters

Now that we have most of the core stats out of the way, let's move to the hax and versatility Ares brings to the table. First of all, Ares can transmute matter to summon his divine gear from scraps around, at will: Conjuring weapons, armor and other equipment he might need instantly.

And yes, the weapons and armor Ares summons actually do have the magic traits and durability of his standard olympian gear. I've already shown that Wonder Woman, who has strength to walk through concrete and bust buildings, couldn't put a dent on Ares's armor. His swords were also creating massive damage across the battlefield, which is something regular weapons wouldn't be able to replicate without breaking.

Even if they were enchanted they still basically featless,

No Caption Provided

Take a kitchen knife. Go outside. Try to cut concrete pavement or something similar with it. Just take a swing and hit as hard as you can. See your knife go dull or break in seconds.

How are Ares's swords, which are making massive fissures in concrete and cutting cars in half featless weapons to you?

I mean even if Ares used some scrap metal he can cut WW who is weak to piercing lol.

Thor and Hulk are not exactly immune to piercing. It's a common weakness to most bricks. If you ask me, they share the same weakness as Wonder Woman. So, what's your point?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

WW striking is nothing compared to Thor's with Mjolnir,Hulk and Iron Man.

Again, I showed her busting a building prior to gaining a massive amp. And even after the amp, Ares was still notably stronger. If you believe your feats to be better, you'd have to quantify them, and prove they are vastly above building level. Then we can talk.

What massive damage did they do,they only broke some rock but Ares' strength also helped.

Based on what we've both shown for our characters so far, there is no reason to believe sword that can cut through stone and vehicles like through paper can't hurt Thor. Even Hulk shouldn't be immune to it, if you add enough power behind the strike (Abomination stabbing Hulk with a piece of dull bone/spike). Having unlimited amount of weapons like these is clearly a good edge for Ares, who can also proficiently throw these weapons, or control them with telekinesis.

Immortality: Counters

Only a god can kill another god is a NLF.

Not really. Like I said, it's pretty much proved to be the case when it comes to events so far. All gods we know of died to other gods only. Zeus and the rest of Olympus died to Ares. Ares died to Diana, using power of Ares himself. Ares was hurt previously only by Zeus himself.

We also know gods are magical in nature, and in Shazam, we get a further backup for Ares's claim that only gods can kill gods. Why? Because only magic extinguishes magic.

"Weapons of man draw no blood from our kind. The only thing that extinguishes magic... is magic."

Says magic based supervillain to a character that's been given powers of olympian gods and champions. Yes, I think the fact that an olympian god can only be killed with another olympian god or a similar highly magical creature, using godly magic is pretty much set in stone in DCEU. If you have proof that it's not the case, please, by all means, do tell.

Do you believe a very powerful comic character like Galactus can't kill him cause he is not a god?

I have no idea, there is no Galactus or a similar creature in DCEU so far. Anyway, there is nobody even remotely resembling Galactus in your team, so why bring that up?

By god Ares could just mean a very powerful being which what Thor and Hulk are.

It's your own subjective interpretation, that doesn't hold up with what we are shown in the DCEU so far. For the last time, the only time olympian gods were ever killed so far, is by other gods, using their godly weapons or magic against them.

I mean Wonder Woman killed him and she is not a goddess.

She is. The whole point of the third act was, that Wonder Woman was revealed to be a secret daughter of Zeus, and that actually SHE IS a godkiller, because only a god can kill another god. I mean I guess you can argue she is a demi-god or something, but she still has divine bloodline heritage, gear and powers, and this is the only reason why she was able to stand up to Ares and defeat him.

Thor, Iron man and Hulk, by DCEU standards are all mortals, and they do not use magic, but regular blunt force attacks, regular energy, electricity and explosives. And I've shown Ares no selling massive amounts of that already to prove my point. So let me ask you again, how do you imagine these guys killing Ares, who is both stated and shown to be only susceptible to literally nuclear levels of divine powers, while he just no sells everything else?

Telekinesis: Counters

Yeah,he can beat all the avengers but Thor and Hulk with that ability I agree.

Thanks. Well we're down from 6 vs 1 to 2 vs 1 by your own admission, isn't that a good day for me? :) And since Ares can take the fight to the sky with flight, I guess it'll just be two 1vs1's for Ares. The situation certainly got a lot more comfortable for my team.

Maw restrained Thor cause he was already beat up by Thanos. If Ares sends big rocks at the Avengers Thor can just blast them with lighting like he did to Jotunheim.

Well.... yeah but he wasn't mortally wounded or anything, right? And he also had his lightning powers, even more powerful and he even didn't need Mjolnir to channel them. And yet he was easily defeated with Maw's telekinesis. I mean right after this he survived his ship exploding and survived vacuum of space. When GotG picked him up, he didn't have any wounds to recover from, he was back on his feet and good as new. So maybe he was tired or something, but I don't think he would've been much weaker because of that. Also, he witnessed his brother being murdered but still couldn't break free. So I think even if he was VERY tired, he still would've wanted to break free with everything he's got in there - but he clearly couldn't.

No Caption Provided

Telekinesis is a good counter to Thor, sadly, it's a fact. It really was quite effective against him. Our fight takes place on a NY street. Ares can just take half a dozen cars and turn Thor into a steel-wrapped sandwich. And considering his telekinesis is a lot stronger than Maw's (ripping thousands of tons of rock from the ground is a feat Maw would wet himself witnessing), Thor will not be bursting out of that in time.

Thor blasts all those scrap swords too.

Well he certainly can't do that either. He has no feats blasting so many tiny objects with enough precision. He couldn't do it against Hela's blades, even though he had much superior control of his powers at that point. Ares can spam his blades until one gets through, and Thor with his poor piercing durability is going to feel it.

Don't even compare them to Hela's blades which were able to cut Surtur,Uru armor etc.

Surtur was no selling Hela's blades, even though they were the size of skyscrappers he was basically going "ouch" and kept going. They didn't really bother him. And Hela's constructs were never particularly durable to be honest. Skurge was blowing them away with machine guns like paper.

No Caption Provided

So Hela might be better than Ares when it comes to blade spam, because she does it a lot faster and more casually. But as far as the quality of their construct goes, Helas blades did not prove to be any better.

Also, Uru armor? Really? Where did you get that from? We don't even know if Mjolnir or Stormbreaker are made of Uru as far as I know - there was no mention of it.

Aerokinesis: Counters

Thor shows him a true tornado.

It's not hurting Ares anyway. Nice retort, but in the end it won't change the verdict.

Pyrokinesis: Counters

Sword of Athena turns to dust in contact with Ares's hand, when he uses pyrokinesis.

The Sword of Athena is the one that Diana uses against DD and Stepp,Godkiller is the sword Ares melted which it's only feat is cutting wood.

My bad. You are correct. Godkiller is the sword Diana used against Ares, and it's not the same sword. Still, cutting wood is an understatement. It cut a thick, wooden pillar, easily as thick as a tree trunk. And that in itself is impossible to replicate for any blade without breaking. Take a look at a few minutes of this if you want deeper analysis. Swords can't cut thick wood without breaking:

Also, the sword has more feats than this. Wonder Woman also cut weapons of German soliders with it, which are made of steel elements, so the sword can even cut other metal without breaking and going dull.

It also can survive unreal pressure. When Ludendorff was amped with Ares's super-serum, he temporarily matched Wonder Woman in strength. And yet, when the two grab the Godkiller from oposite sides and wrestle for it, blade doesn't break. Notice, that's it's two characters who can bust a building with a strike, wrestling over a thin blade. Dozens of tons of force at least, and it doesn't break.

No Caption Provided

Also, when Wonder Woman disarms Ludendorff with her Martelo de Negativa kick, we see she blocks an attack from Ludendorff with her gauntlet. And again, sword doesn't break, even though Ludendorff at that point was amped with enough strength to rival Wonder Woman, and even momentairly overpower her.

No Caption Provided

So you are wrong, Godkiller is not a featless sword, it's highly magical, it withstood strikes and pressure any steel could not without instantly shattering. As far as we know, it's both magical and almost indestructible. And yet Ares turns it into a grasp of dust and vapor in a split second.

This is a good counter to any character in my opponent's team, who has high durability and/or armor. I don't think Phase 1 Thor, Iron man and Hulk have the durability feats to withstand extreme amounts of heat like this. Ares can literally just blink behind them using teleport, and put his million degree finger through their skull. We've already seen that pyrokinesis is a good counter to highly durable armors, like the Iron Man armor, didn't we?

Thor tanked the Bifrost explosion and the Destroyer explosion.

As mentioned, these are both unquantifiable explosions caused not by explosives or other measurable sources, but by alien tech getting overcharged or something. Neither did significant damage to surrounding area that would help us understand how powerful was the explosion. Bifrost blew up unquantifiable, and fodder by feats rainbow bridge, and failed to deal any damage to Loki, who's not particualrly durable. Destroyer explosion could've never even reached Thor, and it did no damage to nearby humans or wooden buildings. Also, explosions can be massive in scale, but not particularly hot. So it's not necessarily a good feat against pyrokinesis. It's certainly not enough here.

I think that's a good energy durability to say he can resist Ares' unquantifiable thermokinesis.

Proof that his thermokinesis is a milion degree?

Well, it's not enough, and here I am, rushing to rescue to quantify these for you. :) Let's go.

Ares vaporizes, literally dusts Wonder Woman's sword's blade in an instant, upon touch. We see that steel did not melt or liquefy, but was overheated straight into gas/smoke. Anyone who knows anything about smithing and smelting would wet himself seeing that. It's obvious that this feat is broken. But let's get real here. How much energy, and ergo, temperature, do we need to replicate that?

No Caption Provided

An average sword's weight is 1.3 kg, some more, some less. Discount the handle, let's say Ares vaporized around 1kg of steel in there.

No Caption Provided

To turn 1 kg of steel into gas, you need to heat it up from room temperature to it's boiling point in it's entirety. Here's a proper calc, which quantifies that to around 2 megajouls of energy required.

No Caption Provided

Ares's hand is a rather small surface that needs to be heated up here, it is closely resembling an iron in size and properties. An iron also only heats on the surface, and has very similar area of heating, so let's use it as a point of reference.

No Caption Provided

To heat a surface of an iron from room temperature to 220 Celsius, you need about about 1100 watts of energy. 1 watt of energy is an equivalent of 1 J/s. In short, you need 5 J for 1 degree Celsius.

To produce 2 megajouls ( 2,000,000 J) which are required to dust Diana's sword, supposing it's just regular steel, Ares's hand would need to reach temperature of 2,000,000/5 = 400,000 degrees.

Almost half a million degrees. And that's assuming Ares was melting regular steel there, and I just proved that this sword is much superior to that. Yes, Ares's hand is clearly millions of degrees, or at least hundreds of thousands of degrees.

Either way, that's still almost a 1000 times hotter than the surface of the sun, so even if you had your Phase 3 feats for Thor, it would still not be enough to ignore Ares's power. It's clearly more than enough to burn through any living tissue. This should really be obvious even without the calc. I mean would you really suggest that if Ares can burn a magical blade with a touch, He would have any issue buring through tissue?

Yes, I wasn't joking when I said Ares can just finger your team to death. It's about time CV learned Ares is freakin broken. OP. Busted. Sorry Thor. Ares is the ACTUAL god here.

Lighting: Counters

Finally, let's finish with Ares's most powerful weapon yet - his divine lightning.

Wasn't his TK the most powerful?

I didn't said powerful, I said overpowered. Telekinesis is by far the most overpowered, he can literally control the entire battlefield with his mind. I mean isn't that broken? But when it comes to quantifiable power... Yeah, lightning takes the cake.

Ares uses his lightning to cast illusions, and use telepathy.

But he needs to touch people or with an object what is connected to that person as we see at that gif with his lighting to put them under an illusions,and we have never seen him put more than 1 person at a time so if an avenger gets TP another one will help him.

Well we see him TP people without going into direct contact. In a flashback, we see him TP'ing Ludendorff and dr. Poison without touching them. And even if he had to touch them, he can teleport and touch them instantly, so it's not really a problem for him. But fair enough, we don't see him using it on multiple people. He'd first have to split them or put Thor down to use it on Hulk, or the other way around. But still, attacking the mind is just another edge he has here. You remember how Wanda screwed up Thor and Hulk, right? Well, it's yet another power Thor and Hulk are quite vulnerable to, so if he decides to use it, he certainly can.

No Caption Provided

Those lighting blast that he fired,well one of them couldn't even fully destroy that car in the gif,and the other couldn't even destroy some of the wood as we see them flying,Ares uses those same wood pieces with TK against Wonder Woman later,remember?So Ares' normal lighting blasts are pathetic.

How is that blast pathetic? Can you point which of the blasts Thor produced had that kind of radius and shockwave? When it comes to scope of the blast and destruction it's easily a match for any lightning you showed for Thor. And it's a casual blast that didn't need any conjuring, which Thor's lightning requires.

No Caption Provided

It's also completely irrational to suggest that Ares's lightning is either a fodder spark or a nuclear bomb. Obviously, he has a whole spectrum in between. The reason why he used weaker attacks on Wonder Woman was because he didn't want to kill her, which I explained earlier. The reason why his final blast when he DID decide to kill her was so powerful, is also obvious. But if he is going to need to charge a more powerful bolt but will have less time, there is no reason to suggest he can't do it.

Ah yes that big lighting,unfortunately it takes a long time to conjure that,any of the Avengers can hit him while is doing that.

Ares has plenty of other abilities that will allow him to buy time to charge it. He use telekinesis to trap Thor in surrounding debris, and then fly up outside of Hulk's jumping range and charge it as long as he wants. He can also teleport to a place neither Hulk nor Thor can see him (behind a building or something) and charge it there. When you have superior mobility, casting time is not a problem.

Thor hits him with Mjolnir which he has no blunt durability feats to tank

Nice claim. Dare to back it up? Once again, you did not provide any quantifiable feats suggesting Thor is stronger than Diana, who couldn't put a dent on Ares's armor, let alone hurt him, let alone kill him. And you just say Thor can breach all of those gaps simply because you say so? Sir, you need to prove your points better. Sorry, but there's nothing suggesting Ares can't tank Mjolnir strikes from Thor. Loki could tank these strikes with no damage. The same Loki, who was consistently bothered by tiny explosions, was staggered with Captain America's punches, was one shot and ragdolled by Iron Man's repulsors and was severely hurt by Hulk smacking him against the ground.

Hell, some of the Mjolnir strikes failed to break reinforced glass.

No Caption Provided

You are overhyping Phase 1 Thor's feats. Thor has very decent feats. Some incarnations of MCU Thor can probably even solo Ares. But you rushed into a CaV against Ares with a puny Phase 1 Thor, and now you think you can just state Ares can't tank Mjolnir? Sorry, you have to prove it first. From what we've seen so far, Ares has many excellent answers to Mjolnir. He can stop it mid air with telekinesis, teleport away from the strike, he can dodge it with superior skill/combat speed, hell, he can probably even melt it with his pyrokinesis. Phase 1 Mjolnir really doesn't have any impressive heat resistance feats either.

You sire, are at a dead end.

or Hulk just punches him.

Same as the above. Why would his punches ever land, and if they land, why would they hurt someone who can no sell bloodlusted punches from a casual building buster such as Diana? Another mute argument.

I don't trust fan calcs,you probably shouldn't too,especially one from Nightmare52 which is known as very biased DCEU fanboy I think.

If you have anything specifically against my calcs, you have to point to it, prove what's wrong. I present the calc, the burden of debunking them is on you. You think Nighmare52 is a DCEU fanboy? Prove it. You think his calcs are wrong? Point out to what's wrong with them. Saying you don't trust them is not an argument.

Does that look more powerful than a nuke or freaking island level?

Of course. It turned thousands of tons of solid rock to nothingness. If it doesn't look like a massive nuclear feat to you, I don't think you know much about how physics and matter works. Just google up how much energy it takes to liquefy a single pavement brick. Than simply roughly multiply in your head, imagine, how much would it take to not just liquefy, but vaporize, and not just a couple gravels or a brick, but thousands of tons of rock, and not just by heating it over time, but instantly dusting it on contact. And yeah, you'll get the idea, it will all become clear, I promise.

Not even going to talk about Superman massive outlier newspaper tectonic feat.

So all of the feats I mentioned for Superman are outliers? Bruce Wayne said he is stronger than a planet, in the context of MotherBox being able to bring him back to life, just as it has the power to bring new life to a planet. Superman overpowering a gravity beam strong enough to reshape earth? Newspapers claiming he shifted tectonic plates? All of these are outliers? Why don't you say DCEU as a whole is an outlier and leave it at that?

I mean I get it, some of the feats can be shady. But again, it's your job to prove why that's the case. If you can't wrap your head around it, sorry buddy, I can't do that for you. It's really not my job here in this CaV.

Summary:

You have provided a few decent feats for Thor and Hulk. Most of them are either unquantifiable or overhyped though. You did not provide any calcs or objectively impressive feats that would put anyone in your team above Ares though. In the end, you did not provide sufficient answers to even half of my points, and your answer to Ares's best weapons like his pyrokinesis, lightning, immortality or telekinesis is not you providing legitimate arguments about WHY my tactics wouldn't work, it's not presenting even better feats for your team, it's simple denial. You deny Ares is immortal even though you have no arguments. You deny his pyrokinesis can hurt your team even though you brought no quantifiable feats to back up your claim. You deny Ares's lightning is nuclear level and deny the calc I brought, even though you can't even point out what's wrong with it. You deny Ares's telekinesis is a good answer to Thor, even though it clearly was effective in the past.

Hopefully, your next post will bring some real arguments to the table. So far, I don't think this fight would even last a full minute. Ares would be like: Damn this is boring. Only two of these guys can even actually fight, and there's almost nothing they can do... How pathetic.

No Caption Provided

Why Ares still wins?

  1. My opponent actually agreed Ares will only be bothered by Hulk and Thor, turning this fight from 6 vs 1 to 2 vs 1. Whatever advantage he could have with advantage in numbers is now gone, and with Ares's mobility, he can further turn the figh to his advantage, by splitting Thor and Hulk, and making it two 1vs1's, which further fortifies his victory.

  2. When it comes to sheer physicals, Ares still has what it takes to hang in there against Hulk and Thor. I don't believe my opponent provided quantifiable or objectively more impressive feats then that of Wonder Woman, to prove Ares can be hurt with simple strength here.

  3. Ares's durability is still unamtched. My opponent did not provide any counter to Ares's ability to recover damaged armor, he did not provide a good argument to how Ares can be hurt by Hulk/Thor when Wonder Woman utterly failed, and did not provide any quantifiable feats to how Ares's energy based durability could be breached. He also provided no valuable counter-argument to Ares's immortality, so I still consider it a canon fact.

  4. Ares STILL scales much higher than anyone in the MCU team when it comes to both reaction and combat speed. Even the feats my opponent provided do not put his team anywhere close bullet timing in reaction speed, and he basically ignored combat speed issue altogether, putting all of his money on one feat coming from Incredible Hulk movie, which is clearly not a showing of combat speed altogether, let alone a showing on a casual bullet timing level. Ares can still blitz here, and my arguments about Ares having superior mobility with teleport, flight and phasing are all still valid.

  5. Ares WILL one shot MCU team with telekinesis. My opponent basically agreed to this much, but stated telekinesis would not be a problem for Thor and Hulk. I can agree when it comes to Hulk, but Thor clearly has had troubles with weaker telekinesis in the past. He doesn't have Hulk's strength to bust out of debris spam, and his piercing durability is pretty average, making him very susceptible to Ares's telekinetic blade spam.

  6. Ares can still one shot MCU team using his divine lightning powers. Ares can gain casting time he needs for his lightning with his teleport, flight, speed, and overall superior mobility. I've seen no other good counter-arguments to the calc and feats for this power that I presented, so I still consider it a valid argument.

  7. Ares can one shot MCU team using pyrokinesis. Again, no counter-arguments here of any objective value, mostly vague denial, which is surprising, giving how dangerous this power is. Basically a death sentence to anyone who comes into CQC against Ares, and that's exactly how Thor and Hulk prefer to fight.

  8. Ares still has a stunning advantage when it comes to versatility. It's an objective advantage that really can't be taken away from him. He has far more options to fight, has multiple deadly abilities and traits and can switch between different powers to achieve unique tactics and to counter anything that's thrown at him.

Is that all?
Is that all?

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for lan_fan
Lan_Fan

19326

Forum Posts

294

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

T4V.

Avatar image for bayman007
Bayman007

4143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36  Edited By ComicGirl21

@eri123 sorry, in Pyrokinesis section, when I say "swords can't just cut thick wood without breaking" there was supposed to be a link there. idk why but due to CV editing issues I can't put it in there. Here it is.

Avatar image for turr
Turr

1257

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@eri123: thanks for the tag. I like the post a lot, though formatting is pretty exhausting. I dont like clicking on 100 links just for 2 second gifs. Besides that it was pretty good tho

Avatar image for turr
Turr

1257

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@comicgirl21: not gonna lie, another great post. I think you responded to every argument he made, that's a lot of dedication and attention to detail. Good job

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@turr: thanks man! This thread is getting more and more fun :)

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for bayman007
Bayman007

4143

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for limitless82
Limitless82

1076

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@bayman007: @comicgirl21: very enjoy read, left no counter unturned. Hugh quality CAV. Looking forward to see the next/final arguments.

Avatar image for nwname
NWName

6691

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43  Edited By NWName
Must resist the urge to post
Must resist the urge to post

TAEP. Is it okay if i comment about wrong things i saw after the CaV is done?

Might sound rude but i dont want ppl to use CaV posts to wank in the future

Avatar image for hermes1220
HERMES1220

2692

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@nwname: This. But I’ll leave it for after the voting so I don’t influence the voters. The debaters hopefully will see the issues and address them.

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@hermes1220: @nwname: i'll appreciate that. If you can wait with your personal comments on the subject of debated characters, their feats and such 'til after the voting phase is closed, that would be great.

This is a debate between myself and eri123. If he makes a misstep in his logic its up to me to notice it and point it out, you guys shouldn't help. Similarly, if there's something wrong with what I posted, eri123 should be the one to point it out and use in his favour. This way its fair.

Afterwards, you are welcome to join with any comments you'll have.

Thanks!

Avatar image for hermes1220
HERMES1220

2692

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Part 2-Counters to your counters

No Caption Provided

Thor

We see Thor added lightning to this strike against the shield (it appears when he touches the shield) so it's not just physical strength feat. Also, for an explosion it's not that impressive, neither the radius, nor the destruction was significant. Definitely not bigger than explosions I showed you that Ares can completely no-sell.

Can you quantify that, at least roughly, and tell me why would that be impressive in this scenario? Like I said in my original post, Ares has stood in the very center of several massive explosions, one of them caused by dozens of bombs exploding at the same time straight in his face, which created a fireball hundreds of feet tall, knocked Wonder Woman hundreds of feet back and briefly KO'd her - and it didn't have any effect on Ares at all.

I mean if it slightly hurt him then I guess you could argue that an explosion twice as powerful or ten times as powerful or something would be enough to kill him. But again, it didn't even bother him in the slightest. Ares's tolerance for heat and energy damage is absurd.

There was lighting but it also counts as a striking feat for Mjolnir,better striking than Wonder Woman.

He wasn't at the center of the explosion,the bombs exploded near WW.

He is not an alien like Thor, he is A GOD.

Means nothing,aliens in fiction have seen to be more powerful than gods.

It's just breaking some metal. I showed Ares creating a fissure in concrete a couple dozen feet long and cutting a vehicle in half all in one strike. This is a fodder feat of strength by comparison.

Again, fodder feat.

Can you quantify it to prove it's impressive? And even if you quantify it to be hella impressive, it's still an armor made of regular metals like gold and titanium, isn't it? Ares can tear metal to shreds with a thought, and disintegrate it with a touch.

Just stop it's not a fodder feat.Iron Man is made out of gold titanium alloy.Since you love calcs so much here is one fromFilm Theory It takes to 3 456 000 pounds to crush it,that's 1,728 tons,better strength than WW and Ares.

In any case, you are yet to prove how is Thor even tagging Ares. With the amount of speed and mobility advantage Ares has, Thor simply can't tag him, even if he could hit like a nuke.

Lighting.

We can casually follow the beam with our eyes. It's not even FTE, otherwise it would appear as a continuous laser beam, not a blast. Again, it's simply not that fast. We see Hawkeye and many other human characters with human reactions, reacting to this blast countless times.

Lol,if we go by visuals Diana and Ares weren't fighting at superspeed,look at the fight scene.Street level characters reacting to it doesn't change nothing,there are street levels faster than Diana for example Wade Wilson.

And how fast would these be? humans and ice giants can't react to it, but they hardly have any meaningful speed themselves.

Well since you go by visuals,there were reaching Thor instantly.Loki is also a Frost Giant and he can react to arrows without seeing them.

Unquantifiable. Explosion shockwave did nothing to human characters that were standing just below it, witnessing Thor fight. None of the wooden buildings were damaged either. Destroyer doesn't contain explosives so whatever exploded was asgardian hax in nature, not a TNT equivalent. The explosion did not have any physically quantifiable source nor did it have any notable consequences that regular RL explosions have, so it is not quantifiable at all, we'll never know how strong it was. Also we're not even sure where was Thor exactly when destroyer exploded. Moments after explosion he is already on the ground. Maybe he was below him already when he exploded and the shockwave didn't even touch him as well. We don't really know.

Smh,there were below it,you explained it yourself why it didn't do anything to the town.That explosion made a town level+ shockwave,that's puts Thor blunt durability very high.He is not getting hurt by Ares' punches.If it was asgardian hax shouldn't it better than TNT earthly bombs?I'll say it again,the explosion dwarfed the buildings.I cut the scene to show Thor walking on the ground just casually to prove he no sold it.Here is the full scene

That would be a pretty nice feat, but then again, Loki was also completely unharmed by the explosion of Bifrost too, and he is not a particularly durable character when it comes to energy penalties. Even Hawkeye's explosive arrow seems to be hurting him, at least somewhat - he doesn't seem unfazed after taking it, he even seemed to be briefly KO'd.

This and the context for Bifrost bridge suggest that again, the feat is not really quantifiable. Bifrost contains no explosives as well, like the bombs Ares tanked. The explosion is alien technology exploding, not a bomb or something, it's hax in nature. It also didn't destroy anything quantifiable/physical in nature when it exploded, like Ares's lightning did, which evaporated a large chunk of soil. Explosion breaking rainbow bridge is hardly quantifiable. For example, we see the bridge being damaged both by Fenris just running on it, and Grandmasters ship gunfire - so it's durability is actually pretty shady, and hard to pinpoint.

Loki didn't get harmed by that arrow,just got angry cos he got tricked.

It made a giant shockwave,a giant explosion,made giant waves of shockwave,destroyed the building where Heimdall resides.But because it's not quantifiable it doesn't matter... ok.

Alright! Now you're talking. It's actually a pretty decent feat. Imo it's the best feat Thor has, to be honest. It's worth noting though, that it combines Mjolnir striking power with lightning strike. Thor strikes the hammer into the ground with lightning coming from above. So he can not replicate this force with just lightning alone. It's a hybrid strike. Still, it's a far cry from my calc for Ares's lightning, so even if Thor somehow would be able to land a Mjolnir+lightning such as this on Ares without him teleporting away/moving away by using superior speed, it's still not gonna be enough to hurt him, let alone kill him.

That was actually all his lighting,look at the gif again and how he holds the hammer,it looks like this.That poster shows the scene,you can see rocks around Thor.

If what is in the script is not seen as a part of the movie, it is not of my concern. We agreed to movie feats only (read OP) sorry mate. In the movie/your GIF's we can't see any shockwave that would be reaching Thor's friends, it clearly looked like a chain reaction of ice breaking. Not that it really matters, since it's still not nearly enough energy to hurt Ares. But I'm just bringing this to your attention, to not hype this feat out of proportion.

Didn't see the only movie feats part,but we never agreed to it.Even the thread we decided to do this CaV didn't say movie feats only.

It's fine I guess.

The last one is not a movie feat. As for the 2 Leviathans he killed, once more - very nice, but is not nearly enough to replicate damage needed to hurt Ares. Also, note that we don't even know if the Leviathans Thor electrocuted died. We just saw them getting hurt (crying) and pushed back. Chitauri ships are pretty easy to explode even with tiny explosives like these Hawkeye carries on his arrows. Again, I'm sending you back to me nuke->island level calc, which is the only instance Ares was ever hurt. This is not nearly enough energy to be competitive here.

The Leviathan literally exploded,and you say they didn't die.And it's not onle about the Leviathan,it's about the armor that they are wearing.That armor no sold Iron Man's laser which can cut Hammer Drones in half.

Hammer Drones are made from Chobham armor,same stuff tanks are made from.Also listen to what Jarvis said,Tony would lose all his energy before he could penetrate the armor.That shows how durable it is.

Hulk

The only feat of purely physical strength you've shown for Thor is breaking some small pieces of metal, so...

Which was calculated at 1728 tons.

How is that thousands of feet? The boulder disappears from camera view like 20 feet after Hulk throws it. Throwing a rock this size unknown distance is pretty impressive, but compared to Hulk's top feats it's still fodder, so why bring it up?

Did you even see 1 and 2 ?

Wrong. Actually Hulk did not one shot this Leviathan. He stopped it in it's tracks and made some of it's armor bend and break off. Tony was the one who killed it, by sending his missile into openings in the armor.

So Hulk can't really kill these things alone, and definitely can't one shot them. We later see him work together with Thor to bring another one down for a proof. He stopped it, made it's armor bend, and made it flip on it's head. With Iron man's help, they killed it together. But that's all. It's a very good feat, but still, you need to keep the hype in check.

No proof he didn't one shot it,he hit the Leviathan in the head.Yeah,making that armor bend and break is a good feat unless you are saying the animal itself is more durable.We him later with Thor fighting Chitauri on top of the Leviathan,Thor then one shots the Chitauri with Mjolnir.Hulk wasn't trying hard at all to kill the Leviathan at that scene.

I love how you say Tony killed,you are basically saying he is better than Thor and Hulk.

Yes it is pretty impressive, Busting through building walls is impressive for Leviathans. However, their weight is usually largely overestimated. Judging their size and armor they must be pretty heavy, but they are hovering and moving by using unknown technology, and they don't have to be THAT heavy to simply go through concrete walls. Anyway, we see that when they die they stop hovering, and we see one collapse on a building roof without breaking it - so they are NOT thousands of tons, they are hardly even hundreds. If they were, several floors would break, if not the whole building. Average roof can only hold about 20 pounds per sq foot (or 29 kg per sq meter).

Anyway, the fact that they can break straight through building walls with ease is still something. BUT it's also what Diana could casually do, and her strength was not nearly enough to give Ares as much as a nose bleed. So no, Hulk's strength won't be enough here as well. Like I said above, if Diana pounding Ares in her bloodlust over Steve Trevor's death, would make Ares at least bleed or get a bruise, we could talk this through. But Ares seems completely immune to blunt force strikes on this level, so even if Hulk is somewhat stronger than bloodlusted Diana judging by this feat, it simply won't be effective.

Eh,it probably didn't crush the building cause of plot,it would be anticlimactic for the skyscraper to crash and a lot of people die just as the Avengers won.

No,lol skyscrapers are much more durable than the top of the church Diana went through,not close.Diana punches are still weak,the only striking feat you showed is a bullrush with a shield.He is not immune to blunt force nor does he seem to be immune,the funny thing is his armor took Diana's hits.

But will he DIE? Really? Based on WHAT? No. There is no basis to think that. Especially considering how hard would it be to land any strikes on him for the Hulk - Ares can fly, teleport, and is much faster you know. In the end, this will simply not help you. Hulk's strength IS impressive, but it's clearly not the answer to killing the God of War. It's not enough.

Well,you know Ares has no good blunt durability feats,he can't take a hit from Hulk or Mjolnir.

Sorry, but this is wrong. Hulk is not making all of that movement in the middle of Abomination's swing. It's just the way the scene is shot. First - it shows abomination taking a swing - then it shows Hulk getting up and making his move. But if Hulk actually said "Hulk....SMASH" in the middle of Abomination swinging, he would sound like a squirrel, talking at hyper speed. We even see fire and sparkles in the background of the Hulk, moving at normal speed. Hell, we see Liv Tyler character move her head in normal speed while all of this is happening. So this is not all happening at hyper-speeds in the middle of Abomination's swing. Sorry, it doesn't make any sens that way. It's not an unusual reaction or combat speed feat for Hulk. It's just that this scene was shot in a confusing way. This movie wasn't particularly well shot.

Ok,fine looking at it again I agree.

Actually, that's a pretty good reaction speed for Hulk, scaling him to abomination. It's not half bad. Still, like I mentioned above, RPG missiles top speed is 660 MPH, which is barely a third of the speed of a low caliber bullet from a handgun, so it's not even bullet level reactions, and it has nothing on Ares's combat speed.

Actually the speed of an RPG is 295 m/s so it's pretty close to bullet speed.

To be a distraction, you'd have to prove how can they distract him. They can't do anything to hurt him, and he can one shot them in all manner of ways. They will be simply side causalities here. Again, what's keep Ares from just breaking their bodies with telekinesis the first second battle starts?

They will be a distraction if he doesn't use TK.He has a lot of powers,who knows what will he use.

Intellect,skill and experience:Counters COUNTERS

In Infinity War Thor reveals that he is 1500 years old. That's nothing compared to Ares's age and experience. Also what major wars did he take part in? He wasn't around when Odin conquered the 9 realms or beat the Ice giants. All battles we ever see him take part in are the ones in the movies, and Phase 1 Thor hardly has an impressive record in comparison to Ares. He beat a few dozen ice giants, beat destroyer, a couple dozen chitauri units and monsters, and his brother Loki, twice. In other words, he only ever beat his much weaker brother, a neigh-featless machine and armies of fodder at that point.

All we get is that, and his age, which is 1500 years. Is that comparable track record to Ares who can remember the birth of humanity as a recent event,so he is tens of thousands years old at the very least, also who is responsible for every single war and battle throughout the history, and personally defeated countless gods by himself, including powerhouses such as Artemis, Zeus, Steppenwolf, and (prior to love-amp) Diana? No it's really not.

And how many battles Ares has fought,from what we know Thor seems to be the warrior type while Ares seems to be the manipulative type who hides behind shadows.,he got beat by Diana in H2H who had been in 2 battles before facing Ares.

First, Thor is 1500, while Diana herself is many times older than Thor. She was born of Zeus, who died to Ares in ancient times so she must be at least THOUSANDS of years old. And how did she spend all of that time? Literally in a one gigantic training montage. She spent her thousands of years on constant harsh training among a race of immortal, superhuman warriors, interested in nothing but combat. We even see Diana is ordered to be trained many times "longer and harder than any warrior before her". And amazonian training is no joke. They have no safety rules.

No,she is 800 years old by the time leaves the island so she should be 900 now.This was comfirmed by Patty.

We see them punch and hit each other right in the jaw, take aim with actual lethal weapons on each other etc. They are very closely replicating actual combat conditions. That's some freakin serious training to be doing for thousands of years.

"Never let your guard down! You expect battle to be fair?!" That's some of the quotes we get from her training.

No, sorry. We have no reason to believe Diana's training was fodder. It was an intense training closely resembling actual battles, that lasted for thousands of years. Matching and surpassing Diana in skill is a very good feat for Ares. Trying to turn it on it's head is pretty silly of you.

Can you tell me when do we exactly see Thor train? All we ever see him do in Asgard is walk around and party.

Ok,she has good training,but about them using lethal weapons against her,I don't think they been doing that from the beginning,definitely not when she a kid or a teenager.She is the godkiller,the amazons aren't going to risk killing her.Thor fought all those battles you showed in a few years,who knows how many more he has fought in between those years and before that.Thor still has experience over Diana.

How are they featless? I mean we see several olympian gods in direct action, like (obviously) Wonder Woman, Zeus, Ares, or Artemis, and they are all capable of absurdly impressive feats.

I said most of them are featless.Wonder Woman isn't part of the gods Ares killed.

Olympians are NOT fodder. They are actual gods. We constantly see them performing amazing feats easily on par with kryptonians and other DCEU high tiers.

Funny how you compare them to DCEU high tiers who are not gods.

We even see a couple more gods represented in the powers of Shazam (For example, Shazam has the strenght of Hercules, who like Diana is half olympian, and speed of Hermes, who is an olympian god) and Shazam is crazy fast and strong. He has plenty of his own feats, and is comparable to other DCEU characters like Superman and Flash - so we know that even Olympians who were completely off-screen were not fodder. Power Shazam inherited from them is very impressive.

Olympian strength of Shazam shown to be comparable to Superman's in the "Shazam!" ending credits

Olympian speed of Shazam shown to be comparable to Flash's in the "Shazam!" ending credits

One of the Shazam's was struggling with a Ferris Wheel,a small one.Not even close to Superman.

What you showed are simply some drawings.

If you want to go by visauls their speed is not good.

Whatever do you mean? What kind of prep? How do you prep for a CQC battle? I mean we know how he defeated them... we literally see him do it. He went up to Olympus,and slaughtered them. We see him punching, kicking, stabbing other gods to death. And we see other gods are armed and are fighting back. What is the point of trying to twist that around? I have no idea what are you trying to say here.

What I meant is what see of that scene is the imagination of Diana's mother.I can't imagine someone who lost to Diana in CQC would kill all the gods at the same time.Do you think that they fought in CQC in that small mountain top?

You really trying to nitpick your way into victory here, huh? :) Well Steppenwolf had an army and Ares had an army. So clearly it wasn't a 1vs1 fight, but I never suggested it was. But we do see Ares gets in CQC with Steppenwolf, he is attacking him, parrying his strike and landing a clear blow. Whether or not the blow pierced or not is irrelevant. In the next scene, Steppenwolf is retreating, and the last person we see him fight was Ares, so yeah, saying Ares defeated Steppenwolf is as accurate as it gets. Obviously there were countless other characters involved in that massive battle, but:

we see these two fight - we see Ares gets the upper hand, doding a strike and landing a strike - we see Steppenwolf retreats. I see nothing wrong with the statement Ares is the only largely responsible for Steppenwolfs personal defeat. It's clearly what it's shown.

We don't know what happened to Steppenwolf after Ares landed that axe,we just see him getting dragged back to his ship,where did Ares go?It could have been some one else.You remember what you said about that Thor and Destroyer gif?The scene was cut in that gif and you didn't accept the feat cause of that.

Too bad you didn't show an entire GIF of that fight sequence, you missed the moment when Ares grabs Diana by the throat like a child, overpowers her, and sends ragdolls her hard enough to break a tank.

He overpowered her with his flight,still lost in CQC.

Sorry, but Ares clearly had the upper hand the entire fight. Diana pulled off a very impressive fight, which is a good feat for her - but Ares ragdolls her around effortlessly none the less, and again, clearly toys with her. She wants to kill him, but he just wants to give her a lesson. He is an entire tier above her.

The only point at which Wonder Woman gained an actual upper hand was at the end, using the power of love, when she gained an anti-telekinesis forcefield, massive boost in stats and such. But unless you can prove anyone in your team can enter a similar state, they are not getting an upper hand on Ares like that.

And in the end, even amped Wonder Woman could not kill Ares. He died by his own hand, with his own power reflected back at him. Without bracelets of Zeus, there is no way anyone in your team repeats that feat.

Wonder Woman killed Ares with his ligthting,my team doesn't need to enter a state of love or to reflect his own power at him,they just need something powerful like Mjolnir forged in the heart of a dying star and Thor's lighting.

That's false. Like I proved several times now, Ares had the upper hand over Diana the entire fight, until the end, even though she was trying her best to kill him, while he only wanted to teach her a lesson. This statement couldn't be more wrong, and I proved it.

It's not,he lost in CQC the gif clearly showed it.She couldn't kill him cause her damage output sucked.

She took small armies of these soldiers solo. It's not a bad feat, like I said above, most of Thor's feats are also against fodder. Diana also beat the best amazonian warrior, and beat Ludendorff, amped with super-serum. So wrong again, she did beat opponents with high stats and skill before. Not to mention all of the experience and skill she has up her sleeve simply because she was training for thousands of years. Trying to lowball Wonder Woman with empty statements like these will do you no good bro!

Did they have any guns? Lol. You realize Hawkeye could shoot him at any moment, and Thor was only alive because Coulson was kinda amused with him, right?

Him beating the most skilled Shield agents like nothing is still a better skill feat than Diana has even done.Thor has fought against frost giants who are able to go against asgardian soldiers,Loki twice who beat Captain America.

Why do you mean by did they have guns?And what does Hawkeye and Coulsen have to do with this?He was human,he still beat those agents.

Wrong once again. Like I proved above, best feat you've shown for Thor which does not include his lightning amping his strike is against Iron man's armor, which is just regular metal. So far, Ares has by far superior feats of physical strength in this CaV.

Nope,Thor crushed Gold titanium alloy.The strongest one in this CaV is Hulk

Physical strength and durability:Counters COUNTERS

Hulk stopped a Leviathan who could bust through walls, so you have the point. But when did ever Thor bust through a wall by just using his strength? Again, I won't dig up Thor's physical strength feats for you, that's your job. Also, I don't recall anyone you mentioned (Hulk, Iron man, Thor) holding something as heavy as a large tank clean above their head with no strain whatsoever. If you have a lifting feat like this for any one of them, show it. For now, Ares clearly has superior strength by feats and scaling.

Leviathan busted through a skyscaper.Here is Thor busting a wall,he did again another time.And yeah about the tank,Iron Man was destroying Hammer Drones with his punches,as I already told you these drones are made of the same metal tanks are made of.So your best WW strength feat can be replicated by Iron man.Even War Machine lifted a tank in prelude comic.

I showed you several GIF's of Ares effortlessly ragdolling Wonder Woman hundreds of feet with a single strike or motion. And we see Ares is completely unfazed by Wonder Woman hitting him back.

Fine,let him be stronger that just proves he is stronger than Iron Man and it also proves that Diana beat him in CQC via skill and speed.

I showed you she can building bust, that's better than anything you've shown for any of your characters. The only feat arguably better is Hulk's, but you didn't even quantify it to prove it. And since Ares is much stronger than Diana, it still doesn't matter. Like I said, I'm not arguying Ares is much stronger than Hulk or Thor, all I said that he will not get easily overpowered, because his feats are clearly just as good, if not more. And I stand by my statement, I don't think you proved me wrong so far.

She didn't bust a full building just the top of it,and it was with a bullrush,shield.You seriously think busting a stone building top is better than Hulk one shotting a beast and his armor who went through a modern skyscraper like nothing is comparable or worse?You don't to quantify it to know which one is better.It's not rocket science smh.Hulk>Thor>Ares>Iron man=Wonder Woman.

Yes, she was amped there. She was sending shockwaves just by spreading her arms across. Her amp started when Steve Trevor died. And it was still not enough to beat Ares without the "power of love" that she gained at the end.

Fine,let her be amped,unlike her Thor made a shockwave in the forest without an amp.

Speed,mobility and teleportation:Counters COUNTERS

Same as the above. He was just toying with her, he is shown staring her down and is not reacting on purpose. He is provoking her to fight, he wants to teach her a lesson. We see him tagging Diana many times without a problem, and dodging her attacks. We really are debating over a nothing-burger here, yes Diana tagged Ares a few times, he tagged her no problems as well - the fact that Ares has speed comparable to Diana's is obvious.

Not toying with her,you can see he is trying to do something with his arm,using TK probably but WW is too fast,and after that scene he gets beaten by WW.

It's funny, because even if I didn't debunk your feat, how do you imagine your claim to be legitimate? Is Hulk making that smash while Abomination is making a swing really in your eyes comparable to combat speed of Wonder Woman, who can pick bullets from the air like flowers in the park? And even if for some reason Hulk and Thor were exactly as fast as Ares, you still ignore the fact that Ares can teleport, phase and fly. I mean however you debate this, you can't escape the fact that Ares has massive mobility advantage here. Sorry, I don't think you'll convince anyone like this. You certainly didn't convince me.

Well,the fact Abom reacted to RPG which is close to bullet speed,and Hulk was faster than him puts him and Thor to WW tier.Also you said said Hulk would be talking at hyper speed,Hulk would be at hypersonic speeds according to you.

You can't call someone who died to bullets a casual bullet timer. Yes, Quicksilver has SOME decent feats against bullets, you mentioned some of those. But he was also tagged by bullets on several occasions, or failed to react to them.

And in the end he did died to bullets. He is a bullet timer, but his feats pale in comparison to Diana's, who's been shown reacting to multiple gunman at the same time, even when being surrounded. Also,

He got tagged by bullets and died by them cause he was getting tired by being so high up in the air,as shown here he stops and rests.You neglected this point.

I hope you are kidding. Tony is not even peak human. Are you suggesting he is faster than enhanced supersoldiers and metahuman aliens like Steve and Thor? I hope you are joking. I mean for one, that was clearly played as a gag. Iron man stares at the tank, tank fires - almost hits him, Iron man hits him back and one shots him. It was a gag moment. Secondly, how do you know tank didn't just miss? Aiming at a target this small with a tank is very tricky. And thirdly even if actually take this seriusly - yes Tony properly dodged a tank shell - Iron man still aim-dodged that bullet. He was waiting for the tank to fire, he was expecting it. It's not comparable to actual bullet-timing multiple shooters and having a bullet level combat speed.

Again as I told you above,even humans in fiction can react to things as bullets and stuff.I really don't understand how being a gag moment makes that feat irrelevant and doesn't look a gag moment to me,badass moment tbh.That's not the only time Tony has reacted to a missile,he has done it a second time against the Hammer Drones.That tank hit Tony while he was flying ,and you tell me it's going to miss when Tony is standing still.He dodged it after the missile fired so no aim dodge.It's a good speed feat better than anything Diana's done since tank shells are faster than bullets,.It's a great combat speed feat,cause Tony moved all his body to dodge it,and Thor could hit him just fine.

I won't force this point. They can clearly tag each other. He can be just as fast and it's still more than enough to statue your team.

He can tag her,but still as I showed she is faster than him.No way is Ares statuing my team,lol.

...what? Why would someone who can stroll through flames, increase his own body temperature to extreme heat and tank massive explosions without blinking be bothered by a lightning strike? Unless you can prove Thor's lightning is magic that hits with a power of a nuke, like I proved for Ares himself and Zeus - the only two characters, who hurt Ares with lightning - Thor's lightning will not bother Ares in the slightest. And it won't.

Strolling through flames isn't impressive,he increased his body to unquantifiable heat,he wasn't even in the center of the explosion.You don't need lighting with the power of a nuke to hurt Ares,just no.

Well Thor barely uses tornado's in battle. He used it once, but you brought it up. Hulk barely uses thunderclap in a battle. He used it once, but it's usually brought up. Many feats in movies only happen once. Hulk's leviathan punch only happened once, and there is nothing even remotely comparable for Hulk in the series. But you brought it up. Movies are a limited medium. It's not thousands of pages of manga, it's not hundreds of volumes of comics, it's not a show with hundreds of episodes. In movies most things only happen once, because of limited screen time.

Yes, Ares has limited screen time using teleportation.

He only used it like 3 or 4 times, but he did use it, and we see him using it do dodge Wonder Woman's sword strike. So he CAN use it, and there is no reason why he wouldn't.

Saying "well he probably won't use it" is not a very good counter. You need to structure your arguments a little bit better than this bro.

I know he doesn't,who cares,as you said the tornado isn't doing anything to Ares.The thunderclap was to show the strength of Hulk it isn't anything special.,he has better feats than that like the Leviathan.There is something better than the Leviathan feat,Hulk punching Surtur.And just because it happened one time doesn't mean his punches aren't at that level.Ares also failed to use teleportation when Steppenwolf was escaping.He could have used teleportation at the end,get behind Diana and melt her with million degree finger but he didn't.

Using teleportation isn't something in character,and he is in character here.

I meant the second GIF. We clearly see him walking around, transparent, phasing through objects. No answer for this either, hmm?

I meant the second gif too,you can see the smoke when he appears and disappears.

Reality Warping:Counters COUNTERS

Take a kitchen knife. Go outside. Try to cut concrete pavement or something similar with it. Just take a swing and hit as hard as you can. See your knife go dull or break in seconds.

How are Ares's swords, which are making massive fissures in concrete and cutting cars in half featless weapons to you?

I didn't mean completely featless,destroying concrete is the only feat they have.

Thor and Hulk are not exactly immune to piercing. It's a common weakness to most bricks. If you ask me, they share the same weakness as Wonder Woman. So, what's your point?

You completely missed Hulk no selling gunfire from a jet.Average asgardian Elliot Randolph in the MCU can't be pierced by knives as shown in Agents of Shield.Thor should be much higher in durability.

Thor is getting stabbed by Asgardian knife in that gif,asgardian knifes can pierce bulletproof Frost Giants,the other is from Phase 3 so irrelevant.The two others are feats for Fenris and Abom.

Again, I showed her busting a building prior to gaining a massive amp. And even after the amp, Ares was still notably stronger. If you believe your feats to be better, you'd have to quantify them, and prove they are vastly above building level. Then we can talk.

Hulk one shotted a creature that went through a modern skyscaper casually,that's better than Diana's feat.Iron Man was also casually punching Hammer Drones with ease.Thor made a giant shockwave in the forest,and was throwing Frost Giants around with Mjolnir.

Quantify Diana's feat.

Based on what we've both shown for our characters so far, there is no reason to believe sword that can cut through stone and vehicles like through paper can't hurt Thor. Even Hulk shouldn't be immune to it, if you add enough power behind the strike (Abomination stabbing Hulk with a piece of dull bone/spike). Having unlimited amount of weapons like these is clearly a good edge for Ares, who can also proficiently throw these weapons, or control them with telekinesis.

Even bullets can pierce concrete and vehicles.You have no proof those swords have better piercing than bullets.

You swords don't need piercing feats when you are fighting Diana.

Immortality:Counters COUNTERS

Not really. Like I said, it's pretty much proved to be the case when it comes to events so far. All gods we know of died to other gods only. Zeus and the rest of Olympus died to Ares. Ares died to Diana, using power of Ares himself. Ares was hurt previously only by Zeus himself.

We also know gods are magical in nature, and in Shazam, we get a further backup for Ares's claim that only gods can kill gods. Why? Because only magic extinguishes magic.

Says magic based supervillain to a character that's been given powers of olympian gods and champions. Yes, I think the fact that an olympian god can only be killed with another olympian god or a similar highly magical creature, using godly magic is pretty much set in stone in DCEU. If you have proof that it's not the case, please, by all means, do tell.

I mean we haven't seem them actually not dying against non-god beings,even if Ares no sold some human explosions,that doesn't prove he can tank Mjolnir a weapon far above those things.They needed 3 gods just to defeat Stepp someone who got stomped by an alien.Funnily enough Shazam has been hurt by falling,gravity in the DCEU is magic I guess.

I have no idea, there is no Galactus or a similar creature in DCEU so far. Anyway, there is nobody even remotely resembling Galactus in your team, so why bring that up?

I was just asking,he is not a god so why do you say "I have no idea".How about DCEU Superman,can he kill Ares?

She is. The whole point of the third act was, that Wonder Woman was revealed to be a secret daughter of Zeus, and that actually SHE IS a godkiller, because only a god can kill another god. I mean I guess you can argue she is a demi-god or something, but she still has divine bloodline heritage, gear and powers, and this is the only reason why she was able to stand up to Ares and defeat him.

Actually yes Diana can be a goddess since Ares himself is the son of Zeus and he is a god.

And guess what,Diana got stomped and hurt badly by Superman who is not a god.

Thor, Iron man and Hulk, by DCEU standards are all mortals, and they do not use magic, but regular blunt force attacks, regular energy, electricity and explosives. And I've shown Ares no selling massive amounts of that already to prove my point. So let me ask you again, how do you imagine these guys killing Ares, who is both stated and shown to be only susceptible to literally nuclear levels of divine powers, while he just no sells everything else?

You pretty much admit that Phase 3 Thor uses magic,but even his lighting got absorbed by Iron Man in Endgame.

Sure Thor said they use advanced science,but that is just a statement.

We have seen Odin put enchanments on Mjolnir just by saying words,take away all Thor's powers,Thor became worthy of Mjolnir and gained his stats back again,his armor was summoned from the air,he can summon tornados,Heimdall can see 10 trillions souls from Asgard,Loki can summon objects from pocket dimensions,he can make illusions etc.

How are all these things science?

Telekinesis:Counters COUNTERS

Thanks. Well we're down from 6 vs 1 to 2 vs 1 by your own admission, isn't that a good day for me? :) And since Ares can take the fight to the sky with flight, I guess it'll just be two 1vs1's for Ares. The situation certainly got a lot more comfortable for my team.

Hulk can super jump,and Thor can bring Ares down with lighting.

Well.... yeah but he wasn't mortally wounded or anything, right? And he also had his lightning powers, even more powerful and he even didn't need Mjolnir to channel them. And yet he was easily defeated with Maw's telekinesis. I mean right after this he survived his ship exploding and survived vacuum of space. When GotG picked him up, he didn't have any wounds to recover from, he was back on his feet and good as new. So maybe he was tired or something, but I don't think he would've been much weaker because of that. Also, he witnessed his brother being murdered but still couldn't break free. So I think even if he was VERY tired, he still would've wanted to break free with everything he's got in there - but he clearly couldn't.

He took a Power Stone blast to the head by Thanos for several seconds,and his lighting mode doesn't seem to work when he is badly hurt like when Hela stabbed him.

Telekinesis is a good counter to Thor, sadly, it's a fact. It really was quite effective against him. Our fight takes place on a NY street. Ares can just take half a dozen cars and turn Thor into a steel-wrapped sandwich. And considering his telekinesis is a lot stronger than Maw's (ripping thousands of tons of rock from the ground is a feat Maw would wet himself witnessing), Thor will not be bursting out of that in time.

Well Thor himself is a 1k tonner so no he is breaking out.

Well he certainly can't do that either. He has no feats blasting so many tiny objects with enough precision. He couldn't do it against Hela's blades, even though he had much superior control of his powers at that point. Ares can spam his blades until one gets through, and Thor with his poor piercing durability is going to feel it.

An AoE will blast all those scraps to dust.

Surtur was no selling Hela's blades, even though they were the size of skyscrappers he was basically going "ouch" and kept going. They didn't really bother him. And Hela's constructs were never particularly durable to be honest. Skurge was blowing them away with machine guns like paper.

Surtur's body got pierced,that's all that matters,he kept going cause he has good pain tolerance I guess.That scene was so just dumb,they cut Surtur who can tank this,the Statesman which can go through a neutron star,the side of a mountain without breaking,that gun scene was just stupid.

So Hela might be better than Ares when it comes to blade spam, because she does it a lot faster and more casually. But as far as the quality of their construct goes, Helas blades did not prove to be any better.

Please tell me some real piercing feats for those blades,since even bullets can pierce concrete.

Also, Uru armor? Really? Where did you get that from? We don't even know if Mjolnir or Stormbreaker are made of Uru as far as I know - there was no mention of it.

I'm talking about Skurge's armor which is made of uru.Every weapon and armor made in Nidavellir is made of Uru,Infinity Gauntlet too.

Aerokinesis:Counters COUNTERS

It's not hurting Ares anyway. Nice retort, but in the end it won't change the verdict.

I know,but Ares' air isn't doing nothing either.

Pyrokinesis:Counters COUNTERS

So you are wrong, Godkiller is not a featless sword, it's highly magical, it withstood strikes and pressure any steel could not without instantly shattering. As far as we know, it's both magical and almost indestructible. And yet Ares turns it into a grasp of dust and vapor in a split second.

I didn't say it featless.

As mentioned, these are both unquantifiable explosions caused not by explosives or other measurable sources, but by alien tech getting overcharged or something. Neither did significant damage to surrounding area that would help us understand how powerful was the explosion. Bifrost blew up unquantifiable, and fodder by feats rainbow bridge, and failed to deal any damage to Loki, who's not particualrly durable. Destroyer explosion could've never even reached Thor, and it did no damage to nearby humans or wooden buildings. Also, explosions can be massive in scale, but not particularly hot. So it's not necessarily a good feat against pyrokinesis. It's certainly not enough here.

Funny,the explosion Ares' lighting made didn't destroy all of the wood,but you make it seem so great just cause of the size of the explosion.

"Also, explosions can be massive in scale, but not particularly hot"

You knew this but you keep saying that explosion Ares took makes him immune to Thor' lighting.

An average sword's weight is 1.3 kg, some more, some less. Discount the handle, let's say Ares vaporized around 1kg of steel in there.

To turn 1 kg of steel into gas, you need to heat it up from room temperature to it's boiling point in it's entirety. Here's a proper calc, which quantifies that to around 2 megajouls of energy required.

Ares's hand is a rather small surface that needs to be heated up here, it is closely resembling an iron in size and properties. An iron also only heats on the surface, and has very similar area of heating, so let's use it as a point of reference.

To heat a surface of an iron from room temperature to 220 Celsius, you need about about 1100 watts of energy. 1 watt of energy is an equivalent of 1 J/s. In short, you need 5 J for 1 degree Celsius.

To produce 2 megajouls ( 2,000,000 J) which are required to dust Diana's sword, supposing it's just regular steel, Ares's hand would need to reach temperature of 2,000,000/5 = 400,000 degrees.

Almost half a million degrees. And that's assuming Ares was melting regular steel there, and I just proved that this sword is much superior to that. Yes, Ares's hand is clearly millions of degrees, or at least hundreds of thousands of degrees.

Either way, that's still almost a 1000 times hotter than the surface of the sun, so even if you had your Phase 3 feats for Thor, it would still not be enough to ignore Ares's power. It's clearly more than enough to burn through any living tissue. This should really be obvious even without the calc. I mean would you really suggest that if Ares can burn a magical blade with a touch, He would have any issue buring through tissue?

Yes, I wasn't joking when I said Ares can just finger your team to death. It's about time CV learned Ares is freakin broken. OP. Busted. Sorry Thor. Ares is the ACTUAL god here.

At low temperatures heat exchange is about linear to the temperature difference between touching surfaces. But at higher temperatures black body radiation becomes the main way thermal energy is released. And Black Body radiation goes up with the 4th power of temperature. Formula for BB radiation is P = εAσT4 .

For about 0.01 m^2 surface area of the palm at 400 000K you would get 14515200000000 watts or above 14 TW which is 7 million times above the desired outcome of 2MW. At 7700K a 0.01 m^2 hand would release about 2MW unless some weird properties like impossibly high or lower than expected emissivity is involved.

500k/5.5k is 1000 now? Also at 5778K sun has emissivity about 60 MW/m^2. Also the heat Thor took from nidavellir, a dyson sphere, would be the total heat of the star focused on about a 60ft wide area while the machine collects most of the radiation from km^2s of area.

I can't believe you actually think Ares thermokinesis is above Thor taking a neutron star.

Lighting:Counters COUNTERS

You remember how Wanda screwed up Thor and Hulk, right?

She screwed up Phase 2 Thor and Hulk and the latter just got more angry lol.

How is that blast pathetic? Can you point which of the blasts Thor produced had that kind of radius and shockwave? When it comes to scope of the blast and destruction it's easily a match for any lightning you showed for Thor. And it's a casual blast that didn't need any conjuring, which Thor's lightning requires.

Did you forget Thor's Jotunheim feat or the leviathan one,both bigger than that.Destruction lol?It didn't destroy all of the wood.As you said yourself the size of the explosion doesn't matter.

Wait,what?Ares conjured that lighting,he just conjured it very fast,Thor Jotunheim lighting took like 1 second to conjure,so it's not slow.

It's also completely irrational to suggest that Ares's lightning is either a fodder spark or a nuclear bomb. Obviously, he has a whole spectrum in between. The reason why he used weaker attacks on Wonder Woman was because he didn't want to kill her, which I explained earlier. The reason why his final blast when he DID decide to kill her was so powerful, is also obvious. But if he is going to need to charge a more powerful bolt but will have less time, there is no reason to suggest he can't do it.

Well,by feats that I showed his casual lighting sucks.You didn't say nothing about the car feat.

Ares has plenty of other abilities that will allow him to buy time to charge it. He use telekinesis to trap Thor in surrounding debris, and then fly up outside of Hulk's jumping range and charge it as long as he wants. He can also teleport to a place neither Hulk nor Thor can see him (behind a building or something) and charge it there. When you have superior mobility, casting time is not a problem.

Yeah,cause he can do all of these things while he is focusing on his lighting,sureeeee.

Behind a building,you realise they can see the lighting coming from the sky right?

Nice claim. Dare to back it up? Once again, you did not provide any quantifiable feats suggesting Thor is stronger than Diana, who couldn't put a dent on Ares's armor, let alone hurt him, let alone kill him. And you just say Thor can breach all of those gaps simply because you say so? Sir, you need to prove your points better. Sorry, but there's nothing suggesting Ares can't tank Mjolnir strikes from Thor. Loki could tank these strikes with no damage. The same Loki, who was consistently bothered by tiny explosions, was staggered with Captain America's punches, was one shot and ragdolled by Iron Man's repulsors and was severely hurt by Hulk smacking him against the ground.

Hell, some of the Mjolnir strikes failed to break reinforced glass.

You are overhyping Phase 1 Thor's feats. Thor has very decent feats. Some incarnations of MCU Thor can probably even solo Ares. But you rushed into a CaV against Ares with a puny Phase 1 Thor, and now you think you can just state Ares can't tank Mjolnir? Sorry, you have to prove it first. From what we've seen so far, Ares has many excellent answers to Mjolnir. He can stop it mid air with telekinesis, teleport away from the strike, he can dodge it with superior skill/combat speed, hell, he can probably even melt it with his pyrokinesis. Phase 1 Mjolnir really doesn't have any impressive heat resistance feats either.

You sire, are at a dead end.

I have provided all the feats.When did Loki tanked Mjolnir with no damage and when did he get bothered by an explosion?You realise against Cap and Iron Man,he wanted to get captured right,that's why made it seem like he got beaten.Cap never damaged him.

That glass is supposed to imprison the Hulk,so it's a great for Mjolnir and that hit was felt through the Helicarrier.It's a very op reinforced glass made by Shield,who have advanced tech.

The only one who is overhyping feats here is really you.

Same as the above. Why would his punches ever land, and if they land, why would they hurt someone who can no sell bloodlusted punches from a casual building buster such as Diana? Another mute argument.

They will land cause Ares is not moving.They will hurt or kill cause Diana's punches suck.I'll say it again,she busted the top of the building with a bullrush+shield.

If you have anything specifically against my calcs, you have to point to it, prove what's wrong. I present the calc, the burden of debunking them is on you. You think Nighmare52 is a DCEU fanboy? Prove it. You think his calcs are wrong? Point out to what's wrong with them. Saying you don't trust them is not an argument.

Nevermind the calc,that lighting might not even vaporized it.

This is a crater bigger than the one in the movie caused by a Chinese factory explosion,not vaporization,so yeah Ares lighting might not vaporized it.

So all of the feats I mentioned for Superman are outliers? Bruce Wayne said he is stronger than a planet, in the context of MotherBox being able to bring him back to life, just as it has the power to bring new life to a planet. Superman overpowering a gravity beam strong enough to reshape earth? Newspapers claiming he shifted tectonic plates? All of these are outliers? Why don't you say DCEU as a whole is an outlier and leave it at that?

I mean I get it, some of the feats can be shady. But again, it's your job to prove why that's the case. If you can't wrap your head around it, sorry buddy, I can't do that for you. It's really not my job here in this CaV.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/superman/zack-snyder-and-david-goyer-discuss-man-of-steel-he-cant-hold-up-a-continent-a75772

The tectonic feat is just an easter egg to another Superman that actually did on screen.

It's also an outlier cause he struggled with a ship in BVS.

Motherbox brings new life to a planet but very very slowly.

The gravity beam was just crushing skyscrapers.

Superman is island level?He can't even take a nuke.Comfirmed by the movie and Zack Snyder himself.

@comicgirl21

It's up,your turn now.

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

10695

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for comicgirl21
ComicGirl21

1836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@eri123: yesss I've been waiting for this! :) Good job eri! A quality post for sure. I'll hit ya back with a final round soon.

Avatar image for lorenzodesila
LorenzoDeSila

905

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

This debate is being a stomp actually.