CaV: MCU Daredevil vs CW White Canary

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JaylinFreeman

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#1  Edited By JaylinFreeman
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Sarah Lance AKA White Canary represented by the adversary@psi-bite234

VS

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Daredevil AKA The "Devil of Hell's Kitchen" represented by your's truly.

Stipulations

  • Pure H2H/CQC battle.
  • Both combatants are sporting their respective or signature attires.
  • Both combatants are in their prime.
  • Winner by death/KO/incap.
  • Morals on, but both combatants are determined to win.
  • Fight takes place in an abandoned warehouse at night.
  • Both combatants start 20 feet apart with each other in sight.

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History/Bio

Captain Sara Lance (December 25, 1987[1] – October 8, 2014;[2] resurrected November 2015[3]) is a former member of the League of Assassins, the first vigilante known as the Canary, a former member of Team Arrow, the leader of the Legends, and captain of the Waverider. She is also the daughter of the late Quentin Lance and Dinah Lance, the younger sister of the late Laurel Lance, the ex-girlfriend/close friend of Oliver Queen, the ex-lover of Nyssa al Ghul, and the girlfriend of Ava Sharpe, a clone from the future. Sara is also good friends with her former teammates John Diggle, Felicity Smoak, and Thea Queen.

After the Queen's Gambit went down in 2007, Sara was presumed dead but in reality had been found by Anthony Ivo and spent time on the Amazo and Lian Yu. A year after the sinking of the Amazo, Sara was rescued by the League of Assassins. She then joined the League and trained with them for five years, after which she left the organization and returned to Starling City under the vigilante moniker the Canary, a translation of her League name as Ta-er al-Sahfer (Arabic: الطائر الأصفر; for Yellow Bird). Sara stayed to protect her sister, Laurel, before she was forced to leave due to the League following her, trying to bring her back. She was eventually released from the League of Assassins by her lover, Nyssa. Following this, Sara joined Team Arrow and began a relationship with Oliver. She soon rejoined the League as her part of a deal for their help in defeating Slade Wilson. Sara eventually returned to Starling following Malcolm Merlyn, but was killed by Thea Queen's hand, manipulated and drugged by him. Over a year after her death, Sara was resurrected by the powers of the Lazarus Pit, and with the help of John Constantine her soul was restored. After joining Rip Hunter's team, the Legends, she became known as White Canary. Sara is currently the captain of the Legends after Rip left the team.

Strength/Striking

Matt definitely has the edge when it comes to strength but Sara is no slouch and most certainly have the striking/strength to challenge her opponent. (Here's some showings of Sara ragdolling established characters)

Here Sara sends Hawkgirl flying backwards with a spinning wheel kick (Hawkgirl is a low level superhuman with enhanced stats)
Here Sara sends Hawkgirl flying backwards with a spinning wheel kick (Hawkgirl is a low level superhuman with enhanced stats)
Here she sends Damian flying with kick (Notice how he twirls in the air) and I would like to note she did this with causal ease
Here she sends Damian flying with kick (Notice how he twirls in the air) and I would like to note she did this with causal ease

Now for some raw strength showings, they're quite comparable here with Matt holding a slight edge :

Causally snaps a human's neck (To break the neck of a human, 1,000 to 1,250 foot-pounds of torque is considered sufficient.)
Causally snaps a human's neck (To break the neck of a human, 1,000 to 1,250 foot-pounds of torque is considered sufficient.)
This is a speed showing as well, but I find the strength a bit more noteworthy. Sara throws an arrow hard enough to kill a man through his armor (and flaming arrows aren't known for their piercing ability, compared to normal arrows).
This is a speed showing as well, but I find the strength a bit more noteworthy. Sara throws an arrow hard enough to kill a man through his armor (and flaming arrows aren't known for their piercing ability, compared to normal arrows).

Speed/Agility

Sara is quite fastand she can definitely keep up with him if not outmove or outpace in combat.

Blocks throwing knives with her staff (Should be noted that it was thrown by a superhuman opponent)
Blocks throwing knives with her staff (Should be noted that it was thrown by a superhuman opponent)
Dodges gunfire with causal ease
Dodges gunfire with causal ease

The latest season of LoT is were she really proved her combat speed :

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Here she dances around a Minotaur and completely outpaces, she dodges everyone one of his attacks (Now you my ask why is this so impressive :

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As you can see the Minotaur can clearly block bullets after they're fired.

Durability/Endurance

Sara is without a doubt more durable then Matt and probably has better damage soak as well. This is one of the most important things in fight considering that both characters would land repeated blows on each other

Tanks multiple blows from Pilgrim and as you can see she's completely fine. (Pilgrim is quite strong and definitely has better strength and durability then Matt.) I would also like to note that Sara's blows visibly Staggered her and it's impressive considering that Pilgrim can no sell bullets
Tanks multiple blows from Pilgrim and as you can see she's completely fine. (Pilgrim is quite strong and definitely has better strength and durability then Matt.) I would also like to note that Sara's blows visibly Staggered her and it's impressive considering that Pilgrim can no sell bullets
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  • Some feats of Pilgrim ragdolling full grown and no selling bullets
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  • Back when she first appeared on Arrow, Sara commented on how she had learned not to feel pain in her time with the League.
  • Years later, during her time with the Legends, Darhk (who also trained with the League) acknowledged that torturing Sara would be pointless

Fighting skills

Sara is an exceptional combatant due to her experience with the League of Assassins, having gone through all the training that members of the League do.

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Sara (along with other Legends) took out a squad of ARGUS agents from the year 2042. These are trained operatives in full body armor (from a couple decades in the future), yet Sara casually engages them 2 at a time.

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Here, Sare one-shots four fodder in rapid succession, all attempting to attack her from multiple directions (the fifth one got back up, but he's a trained swordsman who was a step above average fodder)

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Here she completely out fights Malcom merlyn while he has a knife (They both start the fight unarmed) and knocks him down via superior physicals

The full fight can be seen here

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Here Sara fights and overwhelms Darhk while he's equipt with a sword she quickly disarms him and uses his sword to end the fight (While Darhk does not have many independent feats, he does have showings against other characters that provide for some useful scaling. In Legends of Tomorrow, the historical version of Darhk had a duel with Malcolm Merlyn. In this duel they were portrayed as rivals, though I would argue that Darhk came off slightly superior)

I can go into more detail for both characters if needed

Conclusion

Sara is comparably skilled but she really out bodies Matt in terms of durability and speed while also having enough strength to knock out Matt. No doubt this is a great fight but Sara should win

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@jaylinfreeman: When is your first post going to be up? Lol

I'm actually working on it right now lol Sorry I haven't been able to post, school, traveling, and studying has been kicking my butt, but (no pun intended) I just got my hands on a laptop so I'm going to whip something up soon.

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@psi-bite234:

Daredevil (AKA The Devil Of Hell's Kitchen, The Man Without Fear)

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Straight from the MCU wiki page:

Matthew Michael "Matt" Murdock is a man who had been blinded as a young boy by a radioactive substance that fell into his eyes from a crashed vehicle, and even though he lost his sight, his other four remaining senses were heightened to superhuman levels. After his father was killed by mobsters, Murdock was trained by Stick to become a warrior, using his disability as an advantage to fight for the Chaste. However Murdock's compassion with Elektra led him to be rejected by Stick, as he then returned to Columbia University with Foggy Nelson to gain his law degree and dedicated his life to fight injustice where he could find it in New York City as a lawyer by day with his law firm Nelson and Murdock, and by night as a vigilante known as Daredevil. Murdock's actions as a crime fighter had eventually put him into conflict with a crime lord named Wilson Fisk. Murdock used his skills to expose Fisk's criminal activities and then have him taken to prison.

Daredevil's actions in New York City and his strict moral code soon put him into conflict with the Punisher, a vigilante who believed that death was the only punishment for crime as he caused chaos across the city. While dealing with the Punisher, Daredevil was also thrown into more personal turmoil by the sudden return of Elektra as well as Stick, who had both attempted to recruit Daredevil to join into their conflict against the Hand. Murdock eventually managed to find a middle ground with the Punisher while also defeating the Hand's member Nobu Yoshioka, although losing Elektra in the process and watching Nelson and Murdock fall apart as Foggy Nelson still struggled to cope with Murdock's double life as both a lawyer and a crime-fighting vigilante.

Following the demise of Elektra and his Law Firm falling apart, Murdock then retired from his vigilante activities as Daredevil and attempted to live a normal life as a lawyer, while telling Karen Page his own true secret identity in the hope of repairing their relationship. However, once the Hand began their attack on New York City and successfully managed to resurrect Elektra, Murdock began investigating, becoming the lawyer of Jessica Jones in order to find out whatever she knew. Murdock and Jones had then joined forces with Luke Cage and Iron Fist to destroy the Hand, while Murdock also reclaimed his Daredevil identity. However the conflict with the Hand claimed the life of Stick and, in a final effort to redeem Elektra, Daredevil had stayed behind with her while the Midland Circle collapsed around them.

Murdock managed to survive the building collapse and was taken to the care of Paul Lantom and Maggie Grace, although his body was broken and his mind disillusioned as he vowed to never be Daredevil again. During his recuperation at Saint Agnes Orphanage, Murdock had learned of Wilson Fisk being released early from prison and once again made it his mission to defeat him. This time, Murdock turned away his friends and family and also made his time as a vigilante his one and only priority, putting his life as Matt Murdock behind him. Although Fisk had thought of many of the contingencies to his plans, blackmailing Ray Nadeem and using Benjamin Poindexter to impersonate and frame the Daredevil, Murdock eventually managed to gain the upper hand over Fisk and defeated him, blackmailing Fisk with his threats to Vanessa Marianna if Fisk revealed Murdock's true identity or targeted his friends.

Section I - Strength and Striking

Matt should definitely be able to contend with Sarah in these areas and even wear her and put her down with his strikes throughout their battle.

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Easily sends the +220 lbs. Wilson Fisk railing with a spin kick.

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He breaks a 2x4 with his forearms casually. 2x4 takes a lot of force from regular people to break yet Matt does it easily.

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Throws Nobu off of a building with a combination of strength, skill, and the usage of his grappling hook.

He also has other feats such as kicking a bolt of off a locked door, and spin-kicking a man hard enough to leap into the air a few feet backwards and crack a rear window shield.

Section II - Durability

Matt definitely has the advantage in this area due to his suit which is composed of material that protects from knives and other piercing weapons depending on the angle of where the blade and padding for protection.

Without the suit:

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Jumps from the second floor of a building onto the rear windshield of a car with no visible damage.

With the suit:

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Tanks getting hit with an iron rod from by Fisk, and his own batons at one point hard enough to create sparks.

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Recovers from a punch from Nobu that completely ragdolls Matt. Matt also took similar strikes from Nobu in their previous fights. (1,2)

With his own durability, pain tolerance (I will get to this later), and his suit's durability in mind, I'd wager Sarah is not putting him down by any means.

Section III - Skill & Speed

Contrary to what you said in your opener, I'd wager Matt edges out Sarah in terms of skill and definitely keep up in terms of speed, possibly surpass Sarah in that area as well.

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As you can see in the video above, Matt is able to evade Elektra's attacks for an extended duration of time despite being unarmed, and having a physical disadvantage. Now you may be wondering: What physical disadvantage? To answer that: The physical disadvantage in pure stats. Post-Resurrection Elektra proved capable of dodging and deflecting bullets after they were fired and doing things like taking out multiple Hand Ninjas in seconds in the dark, while surrounded from all angles and unarmed. Despite all this, Matt proved worthy of keeping up with a far physically superior opponent.

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As you can see, Matt defeats four cops who were shooting at him in 15 very impressive as there is little to no place for cover and seconds earlier one of the cops proved accurate enough to headshot Hoffman's bodyguard from a considerable distance. So not only did Matt have to take the cops out, but he had to do so while avoiding gunfire.

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Swats an Arrow mid-air.

Rebuttals

Here Sara sends Hawkgirl flying backwards with a spinning wheel kick (Hawkgirl is a low level superhuman with enhanced stats)

I would like to see some durability feats for Hawkgirl because that definitely seems like an outlier especially after you said she is a superhuman (even if she is a low-level one). Regardless, no significant damage was done, so while it is a pretty neat feat that takes away from it.

Here she sends Damian flying with kick (Notice how he twirls in the air) and I would like to note she did this with causal ease

Impressive. Matt has a similar feat:

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As you can see, Matt spin kicks a guy hard enough to send him flying up in the air and land on a rear windshield hard enough to crack it.

Blocks throwing knives with her staff (Should be noted that it was thrown by a superhuman opponent)

I don't know how I feel about this feat. On one hand, I feel as if this feat is an outlier considering Vandal Savage has ridiculous feats such as bullet timing and deflecting arrows and bullets (1)(2) and throwing knives fast enough to give the Flash trouble catching them and even causes the former to get tagged by one. If not that, then the feat you should isn't impressive as you made it out to be.

Dodges gunfire with causal ease

Matt has done the same thing multiple times throughout his show:

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Here she dances around a Minotaur and completely outpaces, she dodges everyone one of his attacks (Now you my ask why is this so impressive :

An impressive feat, really but Matt has a much better feat and it is the fact that he managed to evade most of Elektra/Black Sky's attacks (someone with similar speed and far more skilled compared to Minotaur), as shown above. As far as I know, Elektra is a far more skilled opponent compared to Minotaur unless you could prove otherwise.

Sara is without a doubt more durable then Matt and probably has better damage soak as well.

Let's see what you got then.

Tanks multiple blows from Pilgrim and as you can see she's completely fine. (Pilgrim is quite strong and definitely has better strength and durability then Matt.) I would also like to note that Sara's blows visibly Staggered her and it's impressive considering that Pilgrim can no sell bullets

I would like to see some more durability feats from Sarah, because this definitely seems like an outlier for her considering the guys the Pilgrim fought before Sarah were casually getting one-shotted, yet the former managed to withstood her attacks without a problem. Also, staggering somebody doesn't necessarily equate to damaging them or inflicting any real harm.

Back when she first appeared on Arrow, Sara commented on how she had learned not to feel pain in her time with the League.

Years later, during her time with the Legends, Darhk (who also trained with the League) acknowledged that torturing Sara would be pointless

Okay, I'll admit these seem as if they are pretty sufficient statements, however, I still feel as If Matt can contend in this area even if he didn't receive any specific training in this area:

I can provide more feats if you want, but this should give weight to my claim above Matt being able to hold his own in this area.

Sara (along with other Legends) took out a squad of ARGUS agents from the year 2042. These are trained operatives in full body armor (from a couple decades in the future), yet Sara casually engages them 2 at a time.

What body armor? Also, in regards to the ARGUS agent's skill, the average Hand member/ninja's skill should be just as good, if not better, being able to dispatch trained police officers without a problem and these same guys were giving Daredevil and Elektra (pre-resurrection) two master martial artists hell all throughout season 2 of Daredevil and were trained by an ancient organization bent on gaining immortality. Yet, Matt was able to defeat a bunch of them, at one point even while his senses were taken advantage of.

Here she completely out fights Malcom merlyn while he has a knife (They both start the fight unarmed) and knocks him down via superior physicals

Impressive, but Matt has an even better feat:

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As you can see in the video above, Matt takes on two of the Five Fingers of the Hand back to back, at one point simultaneously. These guys are some of the leaders of the Hand (I discussed the group above) and have been alive for centuries and are master martial artists, even once resided in K'un-Lun (the same place where Danny Rand/The Iron Fist was trained). They both have their own respective feats such as easily dispatching superhuman Jessica Jones,gain the upper hand against a master martial artist, Colleen Wing in melee combat,no-sell bullets to the torso,and Murakami remained conscious after being impaled on rebar from a high fall. Despite all these capabilities, Matt managed to hold his own and faired well against the two Hand members.

Sara is comparably skilled but she really out bodies Matt in terms of durability and speed while also having enough strength to knock out Matt. No doubt this is a great fight but Sara should win

I don't think so. I have already displayed durability feats without Matt's suit such as enduring a beating from Wilson Fisk without his suit despite being mortally wounded from a fight before, and in the video I posted with Matt fighting the Black Sky/Elektra, Matt took a solid punch from Elektra to the chest that sent him flying through a glass panel (I can post striking feats for her if you want). With the suit, I can say he has the advantage in this area even if it is just edging Sarah out. In terms of speed, the two are roughly equal but if I had to choose one (objectively speaking) I would give the advantage to Matt due to feats high-end aim-dodging/borderline bullet-timing. Matt should also have the advantage of skill, possessing the ability to switch from fighting styles such as traditional martial arts to boxing and vice versa, as well as many other feats of skill. My point, with the combination of his striking, speed, and durability Matt should be able to outlast Sarah and eventually put her down. I will elaborate more on my next posts in terms of skill, and other areas I think need fitting but for now, it is your friend.

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@psi-bite234: Hey I want to apologize for the wait, and because of the lack of spoilers in my post. Every time I tried to do so, the system would delete my gifs and I had to start all over. And in regards to the wait, school took up a big chunk of my time as I said before and thank you for being patient.

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@jaylinfreeman: Fine I will have a counter post up as soon as possible

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#13  Edited By JaylinFreeman
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TV4

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Counters

I would like to see some durability feats for Hawkgirl because that definitely seems like an outlier especially after you said she is a superhuman (even if she is a low-level one). Regardless, no significant damage was done, so while it is a pretty neat feat that takes away from it.

Here's we see Hawkgirl's male counterpart manhanding Green arrow and stopping a blitzing Flash dead in his tracks as for Hawkgirl herself she has consistently fought superhumans. Sending someone of her stats flying is very impressive.

I don't know how I feel about this feat. On one hand, I feel as if this feat is an outlier considering Vandal Savage has ridiculous feats such as bullet timing and deflecting arrows and bullets (1)(2) and throwing knives fast enough to give the Flash trouble catching them and even causes the former to get tagged by one. If not that, then the feat you should isn't impressive as you made it out to be.

It's was a past Vandal savage which is considerably weakened compared to his current version but still impressive nonetheless

An impressive feat, really but Matt has a much better feat and it is the fact that he managed to evade most of Elektra/Black Sky's attacks (someone with similar speed and far more skilled compared to Minotaur), as shown above. As far as I know, Elektra is a far more skilled opponent compared to Minotaur unless you could prove otherwise

First of I would like to note that Elektra was holding back evertime they fought it was confirmed when they fought the third time. I would also like to note that on multiple occasions she treated Matt like fodder alongside the rest of the Defenders.

I would like to see some more durability feats from Sarah, because this definitely seems like an outlier for her considering the guys the Pilgrim fought before Sarah were casually getting one-shotted, yet the former managed to withstood her attacks without a problem. Also, staggering somebody doesn't necessarily equate to damaging them or inflicting any real harm.

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Here she tanks multiple blows from Kausa (Someone who's capable of ragdolling superhumans) causally. I would like to note that she was perfectly fine afterwards.Pilgrim was no selling bullets so making her head move is extremely impressive.

What body armor? Also, in regards to the ARGUS agent's skill, the average Hand member/ninja's skill should be just as good, if not better, being able to dispatch trained police officers without a problem and these same guys were giving Daredevil and Elektra (pre-resurrection) two master martial artists hell all throughout season 2 of Daredevil and were trained by an ancient organization bent on gaining immortality. Yet, Matt was able to defeat a bunch of them, at one point even while his senses were taken advantage of.

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Sara was capable of taking out Malcolm Merlyn someone that's capable of one shoting NYSSA Al ghul. (She is capable of fighting off 5 lOA's ninjas with causal ease/One ninja was capable of fighting both Arrow Season 2 Sara and Oliver at the same time)

Conclusion

I proved that Sara has the edge in striking and durability/Damage soak while having comparable speed and skill. Matt is good but he is significantly below Sara.

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@psi-bite234: Good post, will have a counter up soon.