CAV: MCU Captain America (Subline) vs DCEU Aquaman (TonyMartial)

@amcu@eri123@supremegeneration@rajjarsalt@macleen@sexybayonetta22@jayc1324@darthvaderrocks@kgb725@thunderprince@amendment50@slater8486@incursion2@thanos_thebadas@maestromage@the_red_devil@jsdoctor@amcu@ready_4_madness@anthp2000@xzone@alavanka@angeljax@rem@mr_shazam0920@rajjar@nfactor1995@thebestofthebest@plotweapon16255@unlimited1@cooljammy18@aqualion0@daywalker98@matthew660@blackpantherisb@celestialknight@drpepperman@the_gaurdian@mrmonster@hc03

Being trained by Vulko his whole life, Arthur is a very skilled Atlantean. Here he, surrounded, stomps 3 Red Suite Atlanteans all armed with swords at the same time and was unarmed when the other two arrive. On land he beats Orm in the final fight and with some basic scaling, fights Steppewolf well (who overwhelmed WW).

These are the list of feats you provided for Arthur.

The first one is the only one that stood out to me compared to the others, but still it's nothing special. In this deleted scene, we see Thor take out 3 Asgardian Warriors, similarly to how Arthur took out the Atlanteans, however, Asgardian Soldiers are much more well established from what I know, as even a single one was mowing down groups of Dark Elves.

But it doesn't end there, we've also seen Thor (whilst depowered) take out groups of Shield Agents, and as Agent Coulson put it:

You made my men... some of the most highly trained professionals in the world look like a bunch of minimum wage mall cops... that's hurtful

Not sure what I'm supposed to make of Orm, considering you haven't given any sources to show how skilled he is.

It's made quite clear however that Steppenwolf is a superior to both Aquaman and Diana, we see him outmatch them both here and he was consistently getting the better of Arthur in CQC. I guess you could argue that his performance was on a similar level to Diana's, but even then, what feats does Diana have that make her so skilled?

Given the two showings I posted for Thor, I'd argue he is a superior to Arthur in terms of pure combat skill / ability, and at worst an equal.

In the vid posted earlier, Thanos is a clear step above Thor, so subsequently a step above Arthur.

Let's split this up:

Here hes able to react to a plasma blast after its fired. With his trident he deflects some more in the final battle.

This is pretty standard, Thanos reacted to Iron Man's Repulsor Blast, which is more quantifiable as we've seen Repulsor Blasts outpace Hawkeye's Arrows.

Hes also reacted to a grenade launcher round after its fired.

According to IMFDB, the Grenade Launcher used was an M203, which fires rounds at 76m/s (check muzzle velocity under the specifications area).

That is tiers below what even Hulk can do, in a tie in we've seen him catch an RPG-7 missile, which are a good bit faster. And we've seen how Hulk fared against Thanos.

In the JL final battle in Russia he was fighting perfectly fine with Steppenwolf (who has more impressive reaction feats than Steve and fought Diana just fine).

From what I know of Steppenwolf's own reaction feats, he caught a missile in the Tunnel Battle, but don't see why that feat changes this battle, considering Hulk has done the same as I've shown, but also Abomination has done so with his back turned, who is a peer to Hulk.

I don't think Diana's reaction feats apply to Arthur, the way I interpret it, is that her combat speed is just not the same. Just looking at Arthur in this scene he's repeatedly hit by bullets and other projectiles, and has never throughout his solo been portrayed as a bullet timer.

Arthur's durability may suggest he can take a hit or two without being put down, but taking a fast paced non stop beatdown like Thanos did is definitely putting him down.

. Hes tanked multiple hits from Karathen with no armor, an absolutely humongous seamonster. Not only did Karathen crush through the deep seabed with ease but she also was one shotting large Atlantean warships.

I don't see how tentacle slaps scale to Karathen bursting through the seabed with it's whole body, that would be like me scaling Hulk tanking a throw from Surtur to Surtur bursting out of the Asgardian Palace.

While the warship feat is decent, the Bifrost no sold Dark Elf ships crashing into it, yet with 10 hits Mjolnir completely destroyed it, and every hit was still cracking the bridge, which is more than what the ships were doing. Similarly, with Lightning, Thor was able to bust the Bifrost bridge again in Ragnarok with a continuous stream of lightning.

. Hes also been bullrushed by Steppenwolf and smashed into a giant pillar, which shattered and tanked a hit from his electro Axe.

From both of these attacks, Arthur was out of action for a good 15 ish seconds, which should be noted.

A single Mjolnir Strike is enough to send back Hulk and daze him, this is considerably impressive because Hulk is leagues ahead of Arthur in durability.

Just looking at the Superman feat you gave, he punches Arthur and he isn't back to fight Supes for a good 35 seconds. Compare that to say Thor, who can take around 15 hits from Hulk consecutively and get right back up. We know that Hulk can tank this too since Thanos required more hits to put down Hulk than he did Thor.

I'd argue Hulk's standstill punches are more powerful than Superman's, considering he one shot and flipped a Chitauri Leviathan with a punch, these Leviathans have got to be extremely heavy considering their size and the fact they're covered with metal plates. We also saw the Leviathans crash clean through buildings and tank Iron Man's lasers.

His pain tolerance was also impressive as he was stabbed twice by Manta with Atlantean blades and still was able to fight through until the very end and defeat him.

This isn't really relevant here, as pain tolerance isn't going to change the fact that he'll be out cold after the beatdown.

Energy wise I will admit is not really that impressive but he has taken Mantas blast which destroyed a large part of a cliff.

Since we both agree Arthur's energy durability isn't too impressive, I'm sure we'll both agree that Lightning is going to have a huge effect on him.

According to a google search, Lightning has a temperature of 53540 degrees Fahrenheit, I'm sure this is going to have a huge effect on him. The feat you gave is more related to the actual force / impact of the Manta Beam rather than the heat, but even in terms of the force it's outmatched.

We've seen Thor's lightning:

• Destroy a huge amount of ice.
• Destroy Chitauri Leviathans, which we've already established as considerably durable.

With his trident Arthur can set up a water shield which Orm couldnt do anything about. Orm also broke Atlannas trident and hers couldnt get past Vulkos WS. Atlannas trident was able to pierce Steppenwolfs armors (which was no selling WWs sword). His new Tridents best feat is chopping up Orms trident

I mean, these feats would suggest that the Shield is a good defense to sharp weaponry, but there's nothing here that suggests it's going to do anything against an attack packing as much force as Mjolnir.

@rajjarsalt@tonymartial@ready_4_madness@bayman007

I think its silly that you deem the 3v1 atlantean feat "nothing special". Arthur here is in a very challenging scenario. He has lost his gear and is against Orms finest royal guards wielding swords and takes them out without getting tagged.

When I said the feat was "nothing special" I had no intent to lowball. By that I just meant that it's not a feat that Thor can't replicate, and given that Cap > Thanos > Thor when it comes to fighting ability, he's gonna need better feats than Thor to have a chance here.

When has Thor done anything on that level. Deleted scenes cant really be used and Thor had a huge amount of space to manoeuvre in compared to Arthur.

I don't see why deleted scenes can't be used, all feats in the films are based off how powerful and skilled the writers intend a character to be, a deleted scene also shows this. Scenes are usually deleted because of stuff like movie time and pacing, not because a character is being misrepresented in that scene. But even if this isn't enough for you, Thor should be able to take out a couple of Asgardians given the people he scales to:

First off there's Hela, in this scene she took out around a hundred Asgardians on her own, while most of it was via blade spam, she still took out quite a lot in melee in this instance or this instance. While Hela is more skilled than Thor, it's undeniable that Thor performed a lot better than the group of Asgardians did collectively, managing to block, parry and land hits of his own.

Additionally, Thor was ready to take on an entire group of 20 or so Asgardian Warriors with a few allies until Sif offers to hold them off alone instead and does so. This should all establish that Thor is at least capable of taking out a couple of Asgardians in melee.

Aside from these showings, Thor's got other feats and scaling, in the Ragnarok Final Battle Thor took out an insane amount of Berserker Warriors, engaging a lot in close quarters. Thor also scales above Loki as we've seen on multiple instances, and Loki himself is capable of taking out 4 Dark Elves while surrounded.

You posted the nurse gif right after this but then addressed it later, so I'll address it then.

Coulsons statement was a huge hyperbole, yes Thor did beat all of them but he used his strength, not pure skill at all.

What part of Coulson's statement was hyperbole? He's only just stating what we saw on screen, Thor taking out trained professionals with ease.

Sure, Thor did fight like a brute in that scene but that doesn't entirely discredit the feat, he was parrying and dodging and landing his own hits on top of the ragdolls. It's certainly a good feat.

Vulko stated that he spent his entire life training to be a warrior underwater and is an 8th dan nautilus in xebel fu. He was also able to outskill, so plenty of intent and feats wise he did destroy pre atlan Arthur (who still has the red suite atlantean 3v1).

Key Word: "Underwater", it's literally a plot point that Arthur wins because he's on land where he's more experienced, while Orm wins underwater given that's where he's fought his whole life.

Regardless, Orm's In Universe standing and statements aren't really much better than Thor, Thor is 1500 years old, with centuries of combat experience, he's one of the finest warriors on Asgard if not the best and just from seeing Thor fight for a couple of minutes Agent Coulson assumed he had some sort of high level military training.

I dont understand why you brought Diana into this. Yes she lacks feats but that doesn't put a dampen on Arthur's skill at all and of course Steppenwolf is going to be the superior.

I brought Diana into this because scaling Arthur from Steppenwolf isn't exactly the best idea, considering that even with the help of Wonder Woman, Arthur had no chance.

his performance in the hospital does not give him any pros. He is constantly restrained by nurses and is only giving them problems due to his overwhelming stat advantage. Deleted scenes are not canon either.

The nurse feat isn't really an anti feat. Thor wakes up and is suddenly swarmed with a bunch of guys, according to the movie script (Page 52/140), Thor is very surprised that he's actually being overpowered, because this is the first time Thor's ever had his Asgardian powers stripped, the statement suggests that Thor didn't really render the nurses a threat, and so had just assumed that he'd have no trouble with them given his Asgardian strength, which obviously meant he wasn't fighting the same way he did against the 3 Asgardian Warriors. It's also stated that Thor "winces is pain" (Page 51/140), which just makes the feat even more invalid as an anti feat.

Here we see Thor get tagged and dismantled by some sakaar goons, meanwhile Arthur is mopping up Manta and his goons. Who looks more impressive?

Once again not an anti feat, Thor does not get touched in close quarters once by the Sakaarans, he's only restrained by the Electronic Net they shoot at him. This has nothing to do with how good he can fight in melee.

Ironically in the scene you posted, if the guys had powerful technology Arthur would have gone down to, instead he just swarms through everyone, tossing them aside, getting hit with blades, bullets, grenade launcher blasts but he just shrugs it off.

Other than Thanos is more powerful, we never really got to see a pure skill spar with them two and Thor was just out muscled all the time.

How is this not a skill showing? Thanos blocks Thor's attack, disarms him and then beats him down with his hits.

Even here, Thanos was able to evade all the attacks and catch a strike from a dual wielding Thor.

I still stand by Thor being a peer to Arthur, he's got all the statements and feats that suggest he's on a similar tier of skill but like I said, this just isn't enough. Thor got dominated by Thanos who in turn was on the losing end against Cap. There'a few tiers between Steve and Arthur when it comes to skill and fighting ability.

I think what makes the grenade launcher feat so impressive is because of how close Mantas dad was to Arthur and how much of an awkward position he was in but yes Hulks feat is good buts its a tie in feat, we've Hulk display that level of speed on screen in his several films. And even if you want you use it, with scaling ...

Sure Arthur was quite close to Manta's dad but the blast is also way slower. Even without scaling from Hulk's tie ins Steve should be able to replicate it, he reacted to a blast here, he did have more distance than Arthur but the blast is also a lot faster, clocking in at 230m/s compared to the 76m/s blast Arthur dodged (source in first post).

The missile Steppenwolf caught is a hellfire missile and it fires at mach 1.3 which solidly puts Arthur above Hulk in the speed category. We've already grinded through this in our previous CaV.

Like I said, scaling Aquaman to Steppenwolf isn't very effective considering that Steppenwolf was kicking his ass even when he had assistance. On top of this I've already posted Arthur failing to react to stuff like handgun bullets which are Mach 1.1, so catching a Mach 1.3 object is definitely beyond his league.

In the durability section, theres nothing really to counter. I agree that Steve with Mjolnir obviously has the damage output to knockout or kill Arthur in not a lot of hits. All I argued was that Arthur can take some licks before getting to that stage and has his own defences. But none of that is needed as the skill/speed is just too much of a difference.

Nothing to add here, looks like from here the debate will come down to our skill and speed arguments.

The shield also has blunt force protection as well as we saw in the final fight and when Vulko used it against a young Arthur so it may be able to stop Mjolnir as its stopped royal atlantean weaponry.

It stopped a Trident Bash, that's it. This doesn't come close to the level of power Mjolnir can output, Cap with Mjolnir was able to destroy Thanos' Helmet and give him some bruises on his face, this is something no one has achieved before, not even Hulk - the guy who can flip Leviathans and rock Surtur with a hit.

Even without scaling Mjolnir has it's own feats which are way beyond what a Trident Bash can output, you can't just say it's Royal Atlantean Weaponry and assume that instantly makes it this impressive.

Just wanted to address something from your conclusion aswell:

has more in his arsenal (bare fists, trident etc.)

I don't see how this means Arthur has more in his Arsenal, Cap has bare fists, the Shield, Mjolnir and Lightning Summoning and Expulsion, that's way more versatility than just a Trident.