CAV : Maxxor & Takinom (SMXLR8) VS Azula & Ghazan (DeathHero61) - On Hold

Azula is one of the most physically athletic characters in the series.

One of Azula's selling points is her level of agility and environmental awareness.

This is one is surprisingly impressive as well, on in enclosed and narrow space, still managed to dodge attacks without making movements that would make her vulnerable to falling over the moving cart. In this fight, although I don't have the full gif, she was alternating from dodging long range attacks from Zuko to close range attacks from Sokka. Sokka and Zuko are decently fast. Especially Zuko.

Speed/Reflexes/Agility: This is a solid feat, he blocks and parries several blows from spears in multiple directions then jumps over Aang's airbending(which although wasn't aimed for him, but was aimed to help him, he still shouldn't have seen it coming)

Speed/Reflexes: Hears arrow being launched, turns around, karate chops arrow, then in quick succession launches out a small fire projectile faster than a Yunan Archer could react.(I can actually show feats for these guys, they aren't half bad)

I don't think i need to address Durability and Endurance right now since it will be pretty obvious as you skim through the firebending section that she has taken hits from other firebenders and with the level of concussive force pretty much ANY bender can pack in the Avatar Verse, being able to tank firebending of all things especially firebending from Zuko is impressive. But in regards to blunt force in hand to hand, I'll just put this out there and say that Zuko has been manhandled in H2H by Azula and his striking strength is pretty impressive.

Zuko can send large rocks half the size of a human body flying. (To make note the rock that was being aimed at Iroh was probably already moving at several miles per hour.) Right after that he even kicked apart a steel chain with ease.

Azula like i said bodied Zuko fairly easily in close quarters.

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Azula is Zuko's equal if not superior in regards to physical strength.

She can use her firebending to launch her into the air for travel.

Has enough power to smash Aang's defenses and blasts him with firebending enough to briefly KO him. Considering Aang's level of durability, this is solid when it comes to raw power.(i'll elaborate more on this later)

She has massive AOE attacks that pack a decent amount of force.

Easily blocks thick water attacks from Katara, and even evaporates a mini tidal wave made by her.

Smacks around Aang with a charged attack

She can even use firebending to increase her striking power a technique unique only to Zuko and Azula IIRC. No other firebender has shown abilities like this.

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In the first scan, she kicks a volleyball hard enough combined with her firebending, to such a degree that when it made impact it caused an explosion and even created a large shockwave that was enough to cause a tremble and launch people off their feet. The shockwave alone covered several dozens of feet if not at least a hundred feet in range. In the second scan her and Zuko coat their hands in fire, and clash, creating a huge explosion that sent both her and Zuko flying several meters. Both combatants were completely unscathed.

Azula like most skilled firebenders, can manipulation lightning/electricity.

For those of you who think they know the series, or are familiar, using lightning takes time. But Azula was skilled enough to charge it only a couple of seconds, which is more than enough in a 1v1 fight.

How powerful is one of her charged blasts?

Broke through a part of the mountainside and caused a rockslide.

Smashed through Toph's giant wall. Which is impressive due to how tough her defenses are. Which I'll get to next post.

No questions asked, if the right moment presents itself this technique is oneshotting.

While Ghazan isn't an incredible pure earthbender, he's still quite respectable, especially in the field of boulder negation.

In terms of sheer scale, lavabending is hard to beat, especially because of how it spreads out over time.

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This is something that I think will come in to play in this battle . Both Maxxor and Takinom are creatures the avatar duo have never seen or experienced before which leaves a intimidation factor which could effect both of them mentally or/and physically . Maxxor is 9'4 while Takinom is 8'10 , much taller and stronger , ect then the avatar duo . being taller gives my duo the reach advantage which comes in handy in a close range scuffle .

But why would it though? Avatar characters are familiar with spirits and monsters. And Azula and her friends have dealt with Appa I doubt that would actually intimidate her. It would just end up being another challenge for her. As for the reach advantage? That doesn't mean much for benders who use their elements in close quarters combat. So while your characters may have a reach advantage physically, Azula or Ghazan can equalize that via their bending. So it doesn't mean much.

Also Zuko had a reach advantage with fire daggers in their fight on the boat, but Azula was fine.

Personally for the 2 min talk before the fight , I'm sure maxxor and takinom would catch up and have a laugh about the past and how it was . As for this fight and how they might approach it , they would come up with some things to get the best of both of them. I wont go into details since I want to see your intro before diving in here . One thing is for sure that both of them will be ready and focused , both of them are warriors with tons of experience about battle since both of them are way older then the avatar duo. Since this is an random encounter both of them will be careful and because of seeing the avatar duo as threats both maxxor and takinom wont underestimate them.

This is kind of vague, but I'm not sure what strategies your team could possibly pull unless you show me some scenes, or fights. Azula is a tactician, and has even shown as much in the show. Leading armies, taking over cities, and trolling the protagonists time and time again. And Ghazan is a member of one of the most renown criminal groups in the Avatar series, The Red Lotus. Despite Azula's personality, they would have no problem working together, and a possible strategy would be a tank strategy. Ghazan would be in charge of controlling the area, via lava moats, and Azula would be in charge of range. While Ghazan keeps your team at bay, Azula charges lightning to fire at your team when the opportunity arises. Azula and Ghazan are more versatile in terms of raw technique, so they have more cards to play arguably, based off the moves you mentioned, but I won't press further until your reply.

But why would it though? Avatar characters are familiar with spirits and monsters. And Azula and her friends have dealt with Appa I doubt that would actually intimidate her. It would just end up being another challenge for her. As for the reach advantage? That doesn't mean much for benders who use their elements in close quarters combat. So while your characters may have a reach advantage physically, Azula or Ghazan can equalize that via their bending. So it doesn't mean much.

It should have some sort of effect , regardless of how small it is . I don't think so , this is different . I'm pretty sure both avatar characters have not seen anything like this before. Last thing on this before I mean on , the effect would be caution mixed with some fear of the unknown . You can't prove this wouldn't happen but judging from just the looks of my duo most if not anyone would think their monsters of some kind and run away. On the topic of reach I was referencing your characters if they wanted to go up close and personal . Both your character wont equal anything since my characters would just attack close range as well which would make it more difficult for your characters to handle / deal with them. I'll show what I mean later if it come to that to better hammer my point home .

Also Zuko had a reach advantage with fire daggers in their fight on the boat, but Azula was fine.

Zuko doesn't hold a candle to either of my characters so bad example there. This is a bad comparison right here.

This is kind of vague, but I'm not sure what strategies your team could possibly pull unless you show me some scenes, or fights. Azula is a tactician, and has even shown as much in the show. Leading armies, taking over cities, and trolling the protagonists time and time again. And Ghazan is a member of one of the most renown criminal groups in the Avatar series, The Red Lotus. Despite Azula's personality, they would have no problem working together, and a possible strategy would be a tank strategy. Ghazan would be in charge of controlling the area, via lava moats, and Azula would be in charge of range. While Ghazan keeps your team at bay, Azula charges lightning to fire at your team when the opportunity arises. Azula and Ghazan are more versatile in terms of raw technique, so they have more cards to play arguably, based off the moves you mentioned, but I won't press further until your reply.

To be honest after looking at some feats there tons of things I could come up with but I figured I would do a counter attacking plan to better use these feats but I might attack first a few times to be somewhat fair here. Azula being a tactician is irreverent here due to both my characters having more experience then her in the art of war and combat. Maxxor leads an entire empire while Takinom is 2nd of command of an empire as well . Both of them know what it takes to win battles and wars since they seen it , experienced it and lived it . I don't see your characters working together here , their personalities and behaviors are just too different for anything to get done. As for attack plan I would like some proof that both of them would do the things you mentioned first cause I can't see it happening. Your plan wouldn't work anyway since Ghazan can't handle my two characters alone and takinom would just rush azula since she would just fly over Ghazan while maxxor keeps him busy. Actually both your characters are very limited in what they can do. Maxxor and takinom have seen fire , lightning, earth and lava before but your characters have no seen what my duo could do before . Don't worry I'll show and explain what I mean so you are not confused .

You didn't even do anything in the 2 min talk so again there will be plan from your duo at all.

Your team would not work together very well since your characters are just too different so let me explain

Azula

Azula was marked by a distinct lack of empathy. This behavior would characterize her relationship with her friends for many years. Although she could show sympathy toward them, she never cared for their feelings and manipulated them as she saw fit, such as when she intimidated Ty Lee into leaving the circus and joining her cause. She was prone to asserting herself and her authority in a grandiose way. Azula was known to have a cruel personality, showing little to no concern for others besides her father. From a very young age, Azula demonstrated sadistic aggression and a near total lack of remorse to friends, servants, family, and animals.

This right here says it all really , azula never had any friends or ally's to begin with due to her mental state in general. I could show more about this if needed but you get my point here , azula is too controlling and manipulative for her own good , she would try to boss and control her teammate in which their synergy doesn't exist.

Ghazan

In battle, however, Ghazan displayed a more serious and merciless side of himself. He was loyal to Zaheer and the Red Lotus, doing whatever it took to fulfill their goal. When faced with overwhelming odds, he was willing to kill himself rather than surrender and be sent back to prison, a trait which ultimately cost him his life.

There's not much to say about him to be honest but I highly doubt that he would let azula boss / order him around since he has a leader who does that already. To me he might look down on her in which she would get mad so again their synergy is not there.

Another thing is that you really need to stop acting like my characters are like the characters the avatar duo have faced in the past. The thing about this is your duo are going to have to do more to beat my duo due to superior stats . This wont be easy but it's not straight forward as you think it is

Last point for now about the lightning

No questions asked, if the right moment presents itself this technique is oneshotting.

I don't see that happening for a few reasons

1. My characters are not humans who are weak to it
2. My characters have attacks that are more deadly to your team . My duo can out damage your duo
3. it's not that simple since you are kind of underestimating my duo while overestimating your which again their not as strong as you think they are

It's finally time to show how strong these attacks are and how they can be used .

Flame Orb

This attack is just a basic fire ball but their are variations to it . so lets see

There is one blast one with one hand . This is most common

There is the double shot

There is the 2 shot with 2 hands

That should be good for now , now on to how strong these orbs are . For one their hot enough to semi melt an iron box / crate. To be fair this could also be another attack but I'm not sure since it looks like the attack

Here is an example of what it did to a water creature who mostly take little to no damage from fire attacks. this is 1st or 2n degree burns right there

The attack could be used like this . This one of the example of variation , using the attack as cover.

Here is another showing of power from the attack . Its strong enough to crack / destroy rock / stone with just one orb . Another note is the range since the attack was launched from the air

This should be good enough to prove that the attack is no joke and can / will do damage to your team.

The Lavalanche Attack is a punishing gush of molten lava. Creatures who are adept in both Earth and Fire Elements . Lavalanch has been portrayed as either launching out of the user's hands or surging forth from the ground in response to the user's fist slamming down.

The attack is hot enough to melt iron with ease

Here is an example of an earth style variation of the attack

The attack could also be performed with one hand rather then a blast . It can open the ground kind of like a fissure with lava coming upward

Here is an example of strong the attack is part 1 where a lava waterfall is being made / coming out

Here is the 2nd part to show the lava waterfall complete

To be honest this attack is very deadly and has one shooting potential if it hits your team

Time to talk about the earth attacks so here we go

Pebble storm is quite the attack that's kind of fast / quick . it also a good range as well

Rock wave is a more heavy hitting attack that does more damage

On a scale level the attack is quite good . As you can see it has the power and height to stop a monster sized creature in their tracks

As for power , it could easily up root a tree

Here is another variation f the attack by using two hands for a double attack

This shows you that both attacks can / will cause problems for your duo

I was going to show more for this but I think I'll just show one example for each to save time and get this CAV rolling

The Ember Swarm Attack is a flaming torrent of burning embers. The force of the embers will do only slight damage in many cases. It's only in the hands of a skilled Fire Element user that the Ember Swarm Attack reaches its full potential. If used correctly, the searing embers will also deal Fire damage and leave the target disoriented for the rest of the battle.

When this Attack is made, an overwhelming Torrent of Flame rushes towards the target, as if the flames have been liquified. Creatures caught by the Torrent of Flame are struck by intense heat as well as by the physical force of the Torrent stemming from the Water Element of this Attack

Both attacks are strong can be be used in different ways but this will do for now . For the ember swarm example the embers were able to steam the water and the torrent of flame example shows how attack is strong enogh to push a taget back and burn the ground alittle

It should have some sort of effect , regardless of how small it is . I don't think so , this is different . I'm pretty sure both avatar characters have not seen anything like this before. Last thing on this before I mean on , the effect would be caution mixed with some fear of the unknown .

You can't prove this wouldn't happen but judging from just the looks of my duo most if not anyone would think their monsters of some kind and run away.

On the topic of reach I was referencing your characters if they wanted to go up close and personal . Both your character wont equal anything since my characters would just attack close range as well which would make it more difficult for your characters to handle / deal with them. I'll show what I mean later if it come to that to better hammer my point home .

Its kind of a stretch regardless. Spirits, and beasts exist in the avatar universe. Why would either Azula be so majorly surprised it would mess with their game? What's your basis asides from "oh they never seen anything like them before"? It wouldn't change what either of them would do, it wouldn't take away Azula's strategic thinking, and it wouldn't conflict with Ghazan much either.

And you cannot prove that a twisted dark strategist and a borderline cold-blooded murderer, the former who has taken over countries, while the latter who was acclaimed to be dangerous enough to combat any fighter in the verse, would be afraid. If you keep arguing for it, it would simply be grasping for straws.

Okay? My point was that your reach doesn't matter in the context of bending AND CQC. And someone with long arms would be at a worse disadvantage if they got closer to their opponent instead of properly maintaining distance.(if your arm is as long as my body, you wouldn't be able to properly throw a punch if you are right in my face) In a firefight, you wouldn't point an assault rifle in someone's face, to make the most use of it you would maintain a distance(so nobody smacks the rifle out of your hand too easily) In the case of the length of Maxxor and Takinom's arms, the most they could do is grapple their targets. Meanwhile, the benders, at least Azula anyway, can attack at virtually any range because they are incorporating Martial Arts AND long rang attacks, at the same time.

Zuko doesn't hold a candle to either of my characters so bad example there. This is a bad comparison right here.

In regards to what? I'm just showing an example of someone who had a range advantage on Azula and how she handled it. Unless you mean Zuko doesn't hold a candle stat wise, because even then, Zuko is pretty impressive.

Although he had his swords for this feat, with a simple movement created an AOE move that sent an earthbender flying a fair distance even though the attack wasn't an aimed or precise one.

Melts a sheet of ice while underwater, underneath the northern water tribe city which is basically a frozen tundra, where his powers would be severely nerfed.

Destroys a well made ice construct by Katara casually.

Melts Katara's ice simply by breathing

Although it was a huge sucker punch, Zuko manages to KO Book 1 Katara who still had solid durability showings back then.

Although it was with swords, completely overpowers an earthbender's defense with quick, vicious attacks

And finally to end this section, here are some solid raw power showings during his fight with Azula durign the episode "The Southern Raiders

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These are all solid feats, comparable if not better than what you showed.

To be honest after looking at some feats there tons of things I could come up with but I figured I would do a counter attacking plan to better use these feats but I might attack first a few times to be somewhat fair here. Azula being a tactician is irreverent here due to both my characters having more experience then her in the art of war and combat.Maxxor leads an entire empire while Takinom is 2nd of command of an empire as well . Both of them know what it takes to win battles and wars since they seen it , experienced it and lived it .

I don't see your characters working together here , their personalities and behaviors are just too different for anything to get done. As for attack plan I would like some proof that both of them would do the things you mentioned first cause I can't see it happening. Your plan wouldn't work anyway since Ghazan can't handle my two characters alone and takinom would just rush azula since she would just fly over Ghazan while maxxor keeps him busy. Actually both your characters are very limited in what they can do. Maxxor and takinom have seen fire , lightning, earth and lava before but your characters have no seen what my duo could do before . Don't worry I'll show and explain what I mean so you are not confused .

Azula being a tactician is very relevant, you need to cite examples and lore and showings of tactics to compare, not just saying its irrelevant with nothing to back such a claim. The Ozai Angles(which was only Azula, Mai and Ty Lee) infiltrated and took over the Dai Li(an elite force) through trickery and tactics and psychological warfare, then launched a coup to overthrow Ba Singe Se, an entire country.

Azula and Ghazan both have experience working with others, their personalities aren't so drastically different that they wouldn't simply fight together. Ghazan won't be fighting your team alone, he simply has to keep Maxxor at bay, and if Takinom tries to close in, then she'll get hit by lightning by the time she's close enough.

Actually both your characters are very limited in what they can do.

I wonder why.....

You didn't even do anything in the 2 min talk so again there will be plan from your duo at all.

....I did. Azula and Ghazan get to know each other then make a brief plan. Benders are very improvisational.

Your team would not work together very well since your characters are just too different so let me explain

Unless Azula is going to murder Ghazan during the fight, it, their personalities don't matter enough.

Azula

Azula was marked by a distinct lack of empathy. This behavior would characterize her relationship with her friends for many years. Although she could show sympathy toward them, she never cared for their feelings and manipulated them as she saw fit, such as when she intimidated Ty Lee into leaving the circus and joining her cause. She was prone to asserting herself and her authority in a grandiose way. Azula was known to have a cruel personality, showing little to no concern for others besides her father. From a very young age, Azula demonstrated sadistic aggression and a near total lack of remorse to friends, servants, family, and animals.

This right here says it all really , azula never had any friends or ally's to begin with due to her mental state in general. I could show more about this if needed but you get my point here , azula is too controlling and manipulative for her own good , she would try to boss and control her teammate in which their synergy doesn't exist.

Empathy had nothing to do with her ability to work with them. This is clearly evident in the several times they worked together. Azula's shitty personality withstanding, she was still able to work in conjunction with them. And although I do not have access to comic feats, but canonically she did work with Team Avatar in the comics,(this is after her father was taken down by Ozai, after Ty Lee and Mai turned their backs on her and this is after she lost the thrown to Zuko) and back then she was mentally insane.

Even if you refuse to acknowledge the example I mentioned because its from the comics, I can still bring up Ty Lee and Mai again and how they legit manage to consistently work as a unit to get the job down, constantly using different methods of transportation to tire out Team Avatar, never giving them a break, weakening them in order to ultimately finish them off during The Chase. Lets assume for one second that Azula manipulative personality plays a factor on whether or not they work together, if she could trick Zuko so many times into working with her, fool people into giving her trust that she doesn't deserve on various occasions, why would Ghazan be any different?

Ghazan

In battle, however, Ghazan displayed a more serious and merciless side of himself. He was loyal to Zaheer and the Red Lotus, doing whatever it took to fulfill their goal. When faced with overwhelming odds, he was willing to kill himself rather than surrender and be sent back to prison, a trait which ultimately cost him his life.

There's not much to say about him to be honest but I highly doubt that he would let azula boss / order him around since he has a leader who does that already. To me he might look down on her in which she would get mad so again their synergy is not there.

Another thing is that you really need to stop acting like my characters are like the characters the avatar duo have faced in the past. The thing about this is your duo are going to have to do more to beat my duo due to superior stats . This wont be easy but it's not straight forward as you think it is

Azula wouldn't even need to boss him around, they simply need to fight together. I would assume the common sense here with the scenario you set up is that both duos know they are heading into a fight. In fact the ruling you set was "both sides wont attack their teammate but everyone is acting normally" meaning they have a set goal. What basis do you have based on your analysis of the characters would Ghazan and Azula not work together?

Then prove it. You gave me literally nothing in your opener. Your most noteworty argument was apparently that Azula and Ghazan aren't going to work together, due to their personalities, without citing any evidence why they wouldn't,(and so far in this post you used a wiki post to cite their personalities, barely going in depth yourself on why that will play a factor in their personalities clashing) and how Azula and Ghazan are going to run off because your characters look like monsters. Which are both the biggest grasp for straws I have ever seen in any fictional debate. That's like saying Batman would be afraid of Ghost Rider because he never seen anything like him before, when we know his personality and training and the things he deals with in his universe makes it so its not a majorly big deal. In the world of Avatar there are spirits, some take the form of monsters, others take the forms of humans, and its a world where Dragons exist...... come on man, please drop this argument and focus on actual viable ones.

Me: No questions asked, if the right moment presents itself this technique is oneshotting.

I don't see that happening for a few reasons

1. My characters are not humans who are weak to it That's not an argument. Just say your characters are durable enough to tank it, and then cite evidence.
2. My characters have attacks that are more deadly to your team . My duo can out damage your duo.
3. it's not that simple since you are kind of underestimating my duo while overestimating your which again their not as strong as you think they are Its literally impossible for me to overestimate my team when you literally gave no substance to your opener for me to even understand your characters or even compare them to mine, while giving my characters a shit ton of nerfs so you can have a set list of arguments.

Just to cement this as much as possible I will reply to everything you shown.

Flame Orb

There is one blast one with one hand . This is most common

There is the double shot

The size and fire rate is absolutely poor. Azula can do better. Zuko can do better and he has been proven several times to be her inferior.

And the size of their respective fireballs is way bigger too but I'll kill two birds with one stone when I get to your raw power showings.

That should be good for now , now on to how strong these orbs are . For one their hot enough to semi melt an iron box / crate. To be fair this could also be another attack but I'm not sure since it looks like the attack

How strong is that specific guy compared to Maxxor and Takinom in flame manipulation?

Here is an example of what it did to a water creature who mostly take little to no damage from fire attacks. this is 1st or 2n degree burns right there

To be fair, literally everyone in avatar should realistically be burning to death with even the most basic fire blasts. You can say the same about a lot of universes that have fire manipulators. Plus this level of raw power is nothing. Azula's fire blast have cut down trees.

And has completely vaporized Aang's defenses, burning and destroying it with a casual non-charged blast.

And her blasts can be pretty large, forcing someone like Aang to jump large distances to avoid it.

She's flexible depending on the situation, going as far as to create pinwheels of flames,to throw along a surface during her cart chase with Aang and Bumi.

he attack could be used like this . This one of the example of variation , using the attack as cover.

Azula has done the same thing, I'll show it again if I didn't show it in my opener.

Defends against attacks, from Toph, Katara, Zuko , and Aang and Sokka's boomerang briefly then uses the aftermath to escape easily.

Also she easily stopped Katara's waterbending attacks by vaporizing her attacks.

Here is another showing of power from the attack . Its strong enough to crack / destroy rock / stone with just one orb . Another note is the range since the attack was launched from the air

Azula has smashed Aang while in a rock armor, into a stone building several meters away.

Ember Swarm & Torrent of Flame

Those techniques, just aren't that good. And they lack raw power.

Fire is something I can vouch Azula being superior in, earth is a lot closer between Ghazan and Maxxor, Maxxor having an edge in power.

The Lavalanche Attack is a punishing gush of molten lava. Creatures who are adept in both Earth and Fire Elements . Lavalanch has been portrayed as either launching out of the user's hands or surging forth from the ground in response to the user's fist slamming down.

The attack is hot enough to melt iron with ease

Do either of the duo use variations of that technique?

Here is an example of an earth style variation of the attack

The attack could also be performed with one hand rather then a blast . It can open the ground kind of like a fissure with lava coming upward

This is impressive, but I ask the same question as the previous feat. Is this a technique Maxxor and Takinom use? Plus, Ghazan can do this, but on admittedly a smaller scale.

Here is an example of strong the attack is part 1 where a lava waterfall is being made / coming out

Okay? And?

This is extremely lackluster compared to Ghazan. Ghazan can do literally the same thing on a better scale than this.

Pebble storm is quite the attack that's kind of fast / quick . it also a good range as well

This is one of the more dangerous and pressure based techniques. But who's to say it cannot be blocked or dodged with the way its aimed? Plus it takes forever to go off. Ghazan was able to block attacks from Zuko(despite the conditions, this is still impressive)

And block attacks from Bolin

Who can throw similarly sized rocks with enough force to knock back mechs.

As for the earth wave attacks, they are good, but can be countered hard by lava bending. The instant it reaches Ghazan, he can dodge and then counter by lavabending.

This shows you that both attacks can / will cause problems for your duo

Okay, interesting, why do you believe this? What's your basis for this?

Its kind of a stretch regardless. Spirits, and beasts exist in the avatar universe. Why would either Azula be so majorly surprised it would mess with their game? What's your basis asides from "oh they never seen anything like them before"? It wouldn't change what either of them would do, it wouldn't take away Azula's strategic thinking, and it wouldn't conflict with Ghazan much either.

Even so it still should have some effect like being cautious for example , I don't think both of your characters are just going to go all out .Im just saying that for my duo they know of humans and are friends with them after getting to know them better , I mean sure some were ok with it while others not so much but overtime it got better. I think it would change how both of them approch this fight .

Okay? My point was that your reach doesn't matter in the context of bending AND CQC. And someone with long arms would be at a worse disadvantage if they got closer to their opponent instead of properly maintaining distance.(if your arm is as long as my body, you wouldn't be able to properly throw a punch if you are right in my face) In a firefight, you wouldn't point an assault rifle in someone's face, to make the most use of it you would maintain a distance(so nobody smacks the rifle out of your hand too easily) In the case of the length of Maxxor and Takinom's arms, the most they could do is grapple their targets. Meanwhile, the benders, at least Azula anyway, can attack at virtually any range because they are incorporating Martial Arts AND long rang attacks, at the same time.

Ok but it would be difficult for both sides then . To be honest my duo fights well for being taller and bigger but thats to be expected after all with the experiance both of them have of course they wouldn't let their size get in the way , after all both of them have faced all kinds of opennets with different sizes. Both my chracter from attack from different ranges as well espesciallytakimon also both of character can handle the Martial Arts with their superior stats and more attacking options .

In regards to what? I'm just showing an example of someone who had a range advantage on Azula and how she handled it. Unless you mean Zuko doesn't hold a candle stat wise, because even then, Zuko is pretty impressive.

I mean theres a difference between him and my duo . He is by human standard not creature standard .

Azula being a tactician is very relevant, you need to cite examples and lore and showings of tactics to compare, not just saying its irrelevant with nothing to back such a claim. The Ozai Angles(which was only Azula, Mai and Ty Lee) infiltrated and took over the Dai Li(an elite force) through trickery and tactics and psychological warfare, then launched a coup to overthrow Ba Singe Se, an entire country.

What I mean is that she's not the the one in this battle . I don't think I can cite anything due to the show and game being over so it's impossible to find anything . All I'm doing is telling you what the show protrails about both characters also your examples aren't that impreeive but to be honest I say agree to disagree about this since it donest help the outcome here.

Azula and Ghazan both have experience working with others, their personalities aren't so drastically different that they wouldn't simply fight together. Ghazan won't be fighting your team alone, he simply has to keep Maxxor at bay, and if Takinom tries to close in, then she'll get hit by lightning by the time she's close enough.

Sure but with everyone being in character I don't see how it works to your favor .I'm not going to address this plan since you have not shown or proved they would even come up with something together .

I wonder why.....

All your character offers to this battle is fire ,earth , lava lighting andphysicals , it's not the same for my duo however .

Empathy had nothing to do with her ability to work with them. This is clearly evident in the several times they worked together. Azula's shitty personality withstanding, she was still able to work in conjunction with them. And although I do not have access to comic feats, but canonically she did work with Team Avatar in the comics,(this is after her father was taken down by Ozai, after Ty Lee and Mai turned their backs on her and this is after she lost the thrown to Zuko) and back then she was mentally insane.

Comic feats and events should not be counted here even if it is canon , we had a agreement for the rules so stick to it please. Azula still only does things for herself so I see both your characters doing their own thing not really combining well in this fight .

Even if you refuse to acknowledge the example I mentioned because its from the comics, I can still bring up Ty Lee and Mai again and how they legit manage to consistently work as a unit to get the job down, constantly using different methods of transportation to tire out Team Avatar, never giving them a break, weakening them in order to ultimately finish them off during The Chase. Lets assume for one second that Azula manipulative personality plays a factor on whether or not they work together, if she could trick Zuko so many times into working with her, fool people into giving her trust that she doesn't deserve on various occasions, why would Ghazan be any different?

It was shown later that both of them didn't like azula , when Mai stood up to her ty lee joined in in because she's friends with mai not azula so there no trust here because things happen

Azula wouldn't even need to boss him around, they simply need to fight together. I would assume the common sense here with the scenario you set up is that both duos know they are heading into a fight. In fact the ruling you set was "both sides wont attack their teammate but everyone is acting normally" meaning they have a set goal. What basis do you have based on your analysis of the characters would Ghazan and Azula not work together?

I don't know so I'm not sure . The rules I stated was to be some what fair but since you sure both of them would work together i'm going to take it out then , I really want to be fair and even without any sort of edge giving to either side here . So it's your choice if you prove your characters can work together then fine but I'm going to remove the "wont attack each other " part since you seem confident

My characters are not humans who are weak to it That's not an argument. Just say your characters are durable enough to tank it, and then cite evidence.

My characters have attacks that are more deadly to your team . My duo can out damage your duo.

it's not that simple since you are kind of underestimating my duo while overestimating your which again their not as strong as you think they are Its literally impossible for me to overestimate my team when you literally gave no substance to your opener for me to even understand your characters or even compare them to mine, while giving my characters a shit ton of nerfs so you can have a set list of arguments.

I'm going show some stuff so calm down . I did nothing of the sort , you don't understand how hard is for me find feats for my characters do you . with out the composite attacks feats this cav would not even happen in the first place because of how low the feats are . My character would not attack humans because of them being ally's / friends with them . All I have are animated feats so no comic feats is fair from my perceptive . No nerfs to your team at all so stop complaining and get on with it , after all you accepted this so just deal with it , you kind of making this CAV less fun which isn't a good sign .

The size and fire rate is absolutely poor. Azula can do better. Zuko can do better and he has been proven several times to be her inferior. And the size of their respective fireballs is way bigger too but I'll kill two birds with one stone when I get to your raw power showings.

I was making an example of the attack but I could show you an example of faster attack rate for fire attacks, the example is with 2 weaker creatures that aren't as strong as my duo and of course the size of the attack can be bigger if needed

How strong is that specific guy compared to Maxxor and Takinom in flame manipulation?

Not that strong due to the species of the creature

To be fair, literally everyone in avatar should realistically be burning to death with even the most basic fire blasts. You can say the same about a lot of universes that have fire manipulators. Plus this level of raw power is nothing.

Well of course but for my duo it's different so let me explain. In the show when a creature is hit with an attack there is no visible signs of damage since everyone is so tough. So in the example I was making the attack was strong and hot enough to leave burn marks and the creature is a water type too which resists fire attacks.

And her blasts can be pretty large, forcing someone like Aang to jump large distances to avoid it.

To be fair he didn't need to jump that high and that far to dodge that

She's flexible depending on the situation, going as far as to create pinwheels of flames

being flexible applies to my duo more then your duo because of greater attack options ,she only used that attack once.

Now to address this since you are underestimating how strong fire attacks are so let's do this but first lets show what ember swarm and torrent of flame can do

Ember Swarm

Lets start with ember swarm ,the attack is strong enough to do this

Tornado tackle a strong attack ,that is a focused version of the attack . when the attack is released it looks like this

Stopping a tornado is very impressive considering the attack is the weakest of the fire attacks

Torrent of Flame

As for torent of flame it's hot enough to boli water within seconds that bolis a water creature alive . it could could also be a rapid fire attack. this a variation of the attack too , it stream that turns into smaller attacks

as for power and range ,well there's this example where the attack reaches the top of a castle in no time . Maxxor was on the bottom floor when he attacked so this is very impressive also a another variation of the attack . The atttack burned the whole lower area as well

Those techniques, just aren't that good. And they lack raw power.

I would say these 2 attacks are very good and have the raw power to match if not surpass azula's

Since you need some more proof and convincing here are 2 very good example of how strong fire attacks are. These 2 example trump anything shown from Azula or even a fire bender in general

Example 1

Here we see a simple fire blast or fire ball is strong enough to not just destroy but DISINTEGRATE a car in seconds really. This is very impressive, it shows the power and heat from the attack turns cars to ash

Example 2

This shows another example of how strong and powerful flame orb is. It's strong and powerful enough to stop a tank completely from moving

These 2 examples show raw power and potency for what kind of heat my duo can release here also lava lance is still a stronger attack compared to other fire attacks. Even if these are the only examples that show this , it's more then enough to prove my point here

Fire is something I can vouch Azula being superior in, earth is a lot closer between Ghazan and Maxxor, Maxxor having an edge in power.

Fire is something my characters hold an advantage in, I have proof that shows this but for earth attacks, I guess so

Do either of the duo use variations of that technique?

They can, it depends on the situation though

This is impressive, but I ask the same question as the previous feat. Is this a technique Maxxor and Takinom use? Plus, Ghazan can do this, but on admittedly a smaller scale.

well yes since the attack is used differently by everyone that uses it

This is extremely lackluster compared to Ghazan. Ghazan can do literally the same thing on a better scale than this.

I'm not trying to compare here just showing what the attack can do also I have seen better, Like this

This is one of the more dangerous and pressure based techniques. But who's to say it cannot be blocked or dodged with the way its aimed? Plus it takes forever to go off. Ghazan was able to block attacks from Zuko(despite the conditions, this is still impressive)

That's what you think? um ok. There's a reason for the slowness, it because that was the first time he used the attack. I say he because that was Tom as maxxor trying to be maxxor for real. The attack is much faster on the draw when it used later

As for the earth wave attacks, they are good, but can be countered hard by lava bending. The instant it reaches Ghazan, he can dodge and then counter by lavabending.

And lava bending can be countered by any number of attacks that maxxor processes, after all, he has seen lava and can handle it

Okay, interesting, why do you believe this? What's your basis for this?

your characters can't take any direct hits from my duo's attacks otherwise it either major damage or death. The same can't be said for my duo who are more tougher than humans

Now is the time for these 2 to face off so here we go.

First lets see what takinom brings to this fight since both are similar but so different

• Flight
• Strength
• Durability
• Fire manipulation
• Energy manipulation
• Limb agmenttation and size control
• Resistance
• super stats

Strength

Here is raw strength showing of her lifting Tartarek who weighs 271 pounds with one hand with ease and then dropping him from highplace,I would say she went to the ceiling then dropped him. She was also strong enough to puch through his turtle shell which hurt him

She was able to catch and throw him off her with ease with all of his weight being used against her . He wigths 271 pounds and she threw him off with such force that he was in mid air

She can even use firebending to increase her striking power

She also do it using her claws with fire for more slicing / cutting power

Durability

This is another stat takinom has over azula , this stat comes in handy in close quarters fights like this so lets look at some examples

Here a boulder sized rock was thrown at her

And she just fine and broke free from it

This should be ok for now since it shows that blunt and physical damage don'teffect her too much

More Fire manipulation

Let's look at more examples of how takinom uses fire

she can breathe fire or shoot it from her mouth, it a cool surprise attack

She can also increase the size and/or the power of her fire attacks

I will note that the attack didn't do the damage it was intended because maxxor was giant size, so the attack looks small in comparison . There is more but this should do for now since I have already shown gifs of takinom using fire attacks before also the attack looks like a phoenix lol

Advantages that takinom has over Azula

Superior stats - As I shown takinom has the physical aspect to bully Azula if the thing gets up close and personal. Strength and durability are things that will come into play in this matchup. Azula can't hurt takinom with her strength but takinom can and will hurt Azula with her strength.

Flight - This a clear advantage since takinom can naturally fly, unlike azula . Takinom is faster and more agile in the air which she's going to be throughout most of this fight. She has the mobility and aerial edge in the air with a height edge making her hard to hit and predict her movement

Durability - I have more to show for takinom but what I showed is that she's tough and can survive things Azula can't. takinom also doesn't bruise easily unlike Azula who can / would get burned in a firefight with takinom

Fire Power - This is a no-brainer because takinom does more damage then Azula, I'll show what I mean later but the heat is superior to that of Azula's and like Azula she can use and bend fire to do different things.

Variety- Azula's only has her physical stats, fire and lighting bender to use while takinom has more options for both attacking and for support

While the fire ladies turn up the heat the guys will be trying to bury the other one so lets rock

All you have shown for Ghazan is lava and earth bending so to me he's a glass canon until proven otherwise so this shouldn't take long for maxxor to deal with

Here is what Ghazan will have to deal with against maxxor

• strength
• superior stats
• speed / reflexs
• earth maniplation
• fire manipulation
• energy manipulation
• Durabilty
• varity
• resistance

Strength

Here is an example of maxxor smashing a flaming rock with his fist, very easy for him and it shows he could do this against earth bending

Superior stats

These examples show how much superor he is to Ghazan in this department ,1st he can jump pretty far in one leap

Here is another one leap jump to cover long distance

This should be enough since I'll talk more about this fight in my next post

Since my characters see the avatar duo as enemies they are going to attack first so your character are just defending themselves, to me this makes sense for how the fight starts. My duo talks about a plan while your duo does not

Ghazan won't be fighting your team alone, he simply has to keep Maxxor at bay, and if Takinom tries to close in, then she'll get hit by lightning by the time she's close enough.

He would lose if he fought both of them alone so it's a bad idea if he tried.Maxxor is going to face him so he has no choice but to fight. Ok for you last point lets say for argument sake that Azula is a few feet behind Ghazan so with that in mind back to the fight at hand. So because Azula is further away takinom will go after her so this sets up the matchup.

To be honest, because of the realization of my characters see your duo as enemies their going to have a backup plan to fall back and regroup when needed.

Azula attacking with lighting means takinom dodges and counters, after that she goes around for an second attack like this

There is more but this should be good for now

Even so it still should have some effect like being cautious for example , I don't think both of your characters are just going to go all out .Im just saying that for my duo they know of humans and are friends with them after getting to know them better , I mean sure some were ok with it while others not so much but overtime it got better. I think it would change how both of them approch this fight .

You need proof otherwise this is a stretch. You cannot just assume how my characters are going to act, and you cannot possibly be arguing that characters from a verse where spirits and actual monsters exist, are going to be afraid or even anywhere near as cautious as you claim.

Ok but it would be difficult for both sides then . To be honest my duo fights well for being taller and bigger but thats to be expected after all with the experiance both of them have of course they wouldn't let their size get in the way , after all both of them have faced all kinds of opennets with different sizes. Both my chracter from attack from different ranges as well espesciallytakimon also both of character can handle the Martial Arts with their superior stats and more attacking options .

Your point was that their reach would give them an advantage in CQC, but that's only possible if they are at the appropriate range to accommodate for their arm's length to begin with. Sure it will be easier for them to grab Azula or Ghazan, but it will still be equally as easy for Azula and Ghazan to throw out a ranged attack at the same length their arm can reach. So yes it would be difficult for both sides, not a strict advantage.

I mean theres a difference between him and my duo . He is by human standard not creature standard .

That's not an argument.

What I mean is that she's not the the one in this battle . I don't think I can cite anything due to the show and game being over so it's impossible to find anything . All I'm doing is telling you what the show protrails about both characters also your examples aren't that impreeive but to be honest I say agree to disagree about this since it donest help the outcome here.

Nothing you mentioned takes the entire series into consideration, Azula's path to insanity, and everything she has accomplished. Even when Mai and Ty Lee were about to betray her, and had clear issues with her personality, they were able to work together as a unit despite her lack of empathy, she was still able to lead, she was still able to strategize. You attempting to bring up character flaws to suggest the duo won't work together is a case of you grasping for straws.

Sure but with everyone being in character I don't see how it works to your favor .I'm not going to address this plan since you have not shown or proved they would even come up with something together .

Okay. Have fun with that. Let's see how voters react to that kind of approach in a debate.

All your character offers to this battle is fire ,earth , lava lighting andphysicals , it's not the same for my duo however .

.... I was being sarcastic. I was implying that everything in this debate so far hints at the possibility of you rigging this CAV, not even allowing me to get two canonically weaker characters that work okay together,(since you were looking for fairness anyway) so you can have set list of arguments. But either way it won't matter here because you aren't properly representing your case, you haven't given a sufficient reason to why Azula and Ghazan wouldn't fight the Chaotic duo together, nor showed any impressive feats that pertain to your characters despite their tier.(at least prior to the post I am currently replying to) You simply claimed they are stronger and tougher, SPECIFICALLY because they aren't human.

It was shown later that both of them didn't like azula , when Mai stood up to her ty lee joined in in because she's friends with mai not azula so there no trust here because things happen

There was tension from the very beginning, and despite all that tension they still worked together. You are specifically ignoring that.

I don't know so I'm not sure . The rules I stated was to be some what fair but since you sure both of them would work together i'm going to take it out then , I really want to be fair and even without any sort of edge giving to either side here . So it's your choice if you prove your characters can work together then fine but I'm going to remove the "wont attack each other " part since you seem confident

So you are going to specifically give your team an edge in the middle of the debate so you can have another part of your argument specifically set. Don't back track and decide to change the rules just because I am providing an decent argument. I almost made this same mistake in my most recent CAV, I made very specific rules that gave my opponent the advantage, and basically lost because of it. I could have easily said "Okay, I may have miscalculated when I made this rule, do you mind if I change it last second?" But no, we decided the rules before the debate started so I stuck with it. Same applies here. If you cannot prove my team would attack each other, then don't pursue the line of thinking.

I did nothing of the sort , you don't understand how hard is for me find feats for my characters do you . with out the composite attacks feats this cav would not even happen in the first place because of how low the feats are . My character would not attack humans because of them being ally's / friends with them . All I have are animated feats so no comic feats is fair from my perceptive . No nerfs to your team at all so stop complaining and get on with it , after all you accepted this so just deal with it , you kind of making this CAV less fun which isn't a good sign .

Hard to find feats? I really wanted to avoid calling you out because of how immature and petty it would look, but this is just silly. You literally just posted a section of your characters with strength feats and durability feats not even the strongest characters in the series can match,(you were looking for a match against avatar characters for at least almost 2 years so you should know where they place in terms of tier and feats, you even told me in another PM that you were avoiding debaters like me, Anthp2000, etc. implying you've seen our debates.) and you mean to tell me restricting comic feats was fair?(I was going into this debate for the most part blind) Preventing the benders from defending against the elements is fair? Making me use A VERY SPECIFIC PAIR OF CHARACTERS who do not even know each other while yours does was fair? I even complained about this before I accepted the CAV and you assured me that it was necessary to make this a fair debate. I

Gallery

I took your word for it considering it took me forever just to convince you to debate any of the main Avatar reps on this site including myself, and you wouldn't have been open to a CAV otherwise If I tried to drastically changed things, but here you are scaling your characters to insane degrees to other characters that have feats that can reasonably be argued to be above many of the feats in the Avatar verse,(especially if I am restricted to TV show feats only) no sozin comet for Azula, my characters have no ill intent towards yours,(but your team does) and you even seriously contemplated removing "the won't attack each other" argument as soon as I presented a competent argument towards why Azula and Ghazan wouldn't attack each other, as if you didn't put it there to begin with.

All I have are animated feats so no comic feats is fair from my perceptive .

You had a set matchup in mind, and planned on changing your characters if I went through with a pair I was comfortable with. And you are arguing that the Avatar Duo gets one shotted, and that the Avatar Duo can barely damage your team. On top of arguing that they cannot work together, and are not allowed to send attacks back at you in any fashion, and not allowing comic feats.

Not granting the canon comic feats, just because Chaotic only has animated feats makes no sense especially when you are arguing your characters one shot mine. Its common knowledge that the comics supplement their placement in tier and make it so they stand a chance against the characters they are put up against on the vine.

I really don't want to go as far as to say you rigged this CAV, because at the end of the day, I don't like to assume people's intentions, but there's no way you could have possibly set up all these rules and restrictions without trying to give yourself an advantage of some kind. I mean seriously, look at this:

Since my characters see the avatar duo as enemies they are going to attack first so your character are just defending themselves, to me this makes sense for how the fight starts. My duo talks about a plan while your duo does not

This argument is way too convenient. Especially with the context of what I mentioned above.