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#1 Edited by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
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Mako (represented by Huskii)

vs

Tenzin (represented by Mial42)

Rules:

*Both combatants are in-character, but completely serious, as they were against the Red Lotus.

*Starting distance of twenty feet.

*Win by KO or death.

*Fight takes place on the streets of Republic City.

When the leader of the Air Nation and the verse's greatest lightningbender collide, who will triumph?

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#2 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

@huskii Here's the thread. Do you want to start or shall I? Also, how many posts do you want (I'd prefer three posts each)?

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#3 Posted by Huskii (395 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by Tektonic (545 posts) - - Show Bio

@mial42 You're a CaV machine at this point. How many have you done?

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#5 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

@tektonic:

I've only finished three (Wan vs Lin (my first and worst), Zaheer vs Kuvira, and Zaheer vs Suki).

I am currently in six (Korra vs Zuko, Unalaq vs Suyin, Zhu Li vs Tenzin, Zaheer vs Bolin, Wan vs Dr. Octopus, and Tenzin vs Mako).

I have two planned (Zaheer vs Ghazan and Tonraq vs Kya).

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#6 Posted by foxerdes (5853 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks good, T4V

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#7 Edited by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

Tenzin

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Tenzin is the leader of the Air Nation, the son of Avatar Aang, and one of the most important mentors of Avatar Korra. For a time, he was even the last airbender. His decades of airbending experience, skill, power, and sheer will make him one of the best fighters and benders in the series, and he is more than good enough to beat Mako.

Airbending

Skill

Tenzin is an airbending master, and correspondingly very skilled in all aspects of airbending.

No Caption Provided
He earned his tattoos by inventing the air cycle, a well rounded move that combines both defense and mobility.
He earned his tattoos by inventing the air cycle, a well rounded move that combines both defense and mobility.
Creates a double helix air move to hold this metalbending officer away from the magnet.
Creates a double helix air move to hold this metalbending officer away from the magnet.
Becomes the first person to tag Amon using an AOE attack.
Becomes the first person to tag Amon using an AOE attack.
Going up the side of the Northern Air Temple in one smooth motion to take Zaheer by surprise.
Going up the side of the Northern Air Temple in one smooth motion to take Zaheer by surprise.
He more or less stomped Zaheer, a very respectable fighter in his own right, through sheer skill.
He more or less stomped Zaheer, a very respectable fighter in his own right, through sheer skill.
Creates an air funnel that provides mobility and some protection.
Creates an air funnel that provides mobility and some protection.
Sends three members of the Red Lotus flying in an instant.
Sends three members of the Red Lotus flying in an instant.
Scales the Northern Air Temple while chasing Zaheer. Notice how smooth he is, using the air to carry himself, rather than scrambling up like Zaheer, nicely showing the difference between a master and a prodigee. Also note him hitting Zaheer mid-air.
Scales the Northern Air Temple while chasing Zaheer. Notice how smooth he is, using the air to carry himself, rather than scrambling up like Zaheer, nicely showing the difference between a master and a prodigee. Also note him hitting Zaheer mid-air.

Tenzin is almost certainly more skilled than Mako is, although it is hard to directly compare between elements. That being said, his moveset is versatile enough to hard counter Mako in almost every way.

Power

While he isn't as powerful as his dad, he's still got some very respectable feats in this department.

Blocks the AOE (not the beam itself) of P'li's attack. P'li's attacks are significantly more powerful than Mako's, so Mako isn't getting through Tenzin's defense any time soon.
Blocks the AOE (not the beam itself) of P'li's attack. P'li's attacks are significantly more powerful than Mako's, so Mako isn't getting through Tenzin's defense any time soon.
Casually creates an airspout taller than a building with his hands bound. Even the winds at the bottom are strong enough to send a man flying hard enough to crater a stone wall. Also a great skill showing, as the airspout is a master level move.
Casually creates an airspout taller than a building with his hands bound. Even the winds at the bottom are strong enough to send a man flying hard enough to crater a stone wall. Also a great skill showing, as the airspout is a master level move.
Sends a mecha tank sliding backwards with an airblast. Mako's fireblasts did practically nothing to mecha tanks.
Sends a mecha tank sliding backwards with an airblast. Mako's fireblasts did practically nothing to mecha tanks.
Sends a mecha tank flying several stories with an air blast.
Sends a mecha tank flying several stories with an air blast.
Notice how he shatters Ming's ice with his shield? Ming's ice is consistently stronger than stone.
Notice how he shatters Ming's ice with his shield? Ming's ice is consistently stronger than stone.
This blast put down Zaheer, Ming Hua, and Ghazan for 13 seconds. That's enough to one shot Mako, and the AOE will ensure it connects.
This blast put down Zaheer, Ming Hua, and Ghazan for 13 seconds. That's enough to one shot Mako, and the AOE will ensure it connects.

For context:

Zaheer recovered from a two story slam almost instantly.
Zaheer recovered from a two story slam almost instantly.

Tenzin is way more powerful than Mako, allowing him to directly overpower Mako if he chooses, and his defense is far too powerful for Mako to break. He can also one shot Mako with his attacks.

Physical Abilities

Speed and Agility

Fittingly for a master airbender, speed is one of Tenzin's best attributes, and he is one of the fastest characters in the series.

Blasts Ghazan before he can react, then trades blows with both Ming Hua and Zaheer, also some of the fastest characters in the series.
Blasts Ghazan before he can react, then trades blows with both Ming Hua and Zaheer, also some of the fastest characters in the series.

For context:

Mako wasn't able to react to Zaheer alone (he couldn't have stopped the attack, but he could have braced himself).
Mako wasn't able to react to Zaheer alone (he couldn't have stopped the attack, but he could have braced himself).
Mako can barely keep up with Ming Hua.
Mako can barely keep up with Ming Hua.
Through the power of his beard sense, Tenzin can react to multiple Equalist sneak attacks mere feet from his head.
Through the power of his beard sense, Tenzin can react to multiple Equalist sneak attacks mere feet from his head.
Quickly scales the Northern Air Temple. Also tags Zaheer mid-air, a nice counter for firejets if Mako uses them.
Quickly scales the Northern Air Temple. Also tags Zaheer mid-air, a nice counter for firejets if Mako uses them.
Dodges out Zaheer and blasts him.
Dodges out Zaheer and blasts him.

I think it's clear that Tenzin is much faster than Mako is, able to stomp people faster than Mako and able to go toe to toe with two people faster than Mako. He's also more agile and evasive than Mako is, which in conjunction with his superior speed, defense, and AOE will ensure that he hits Mako much more often than Mako hits him.

Durability

While he may not look it, Tenzin is actually pretty durable.

Tanks a cheapshot from P'li, but recovers mid fall.
Tanks a cheapshot from P'li, but recovers mid fall.
Tanks a cheapshot from Ming Hua and Ghazan. Ming regularly shatters stone and steel, and Ghazan's rock straight up turned to dust on Tenzin's face.
Tanks a cheapshot from Ming Hua and Ghazan. Ming regularly shatters stone and steel, and Ghazan's rock straight up turned to dust on Tenzin's face.
Tanks several ice and stone attacks from Ghazan. and a fairly large airblast from Zaheer.
Tanks several ice and stone attacks from Ghazan. and a fairly large airblast from Zaheer.
After all that, he still blasts Ghazan and Zaheer, and is about to take on Ming Hua, when P'li cheapshots him again.
After all that, he still blasts Ghazan and Zaheer, and is about to take on Ming Hua, when P'li cheapshots him again.
And he's still conscious, although it doesn't really matter at this point.
And he's still conscious, although it doesn't really matter at this point.

Tenzin's durability means that even if Mako somehow gets past all of Tenzin's other advantages, he can't one shot him with anything but his strongest attacks.

Countering That Guy Who Got Stomped by the Lieutenant

Countering Mako's Firebending

Mako is a pretty decent firebender, but none of his moves are anywhere near good enough to beat Tenzin.

Basic Fire Offense:

Mako's basic fireblasts are his most commonly used move by far, and considering this fight is IC, that's what he's going to be using for the majority of the fight. Tenzin's defense won't even be strained by these, and he can't overwhelm Tenzin with volume either, considering Tenzin's speed advantage. Alternately, he can just attack through the fireblasts, cooling them and hitting Mako.

Explosive Fireblasts:

Mako has shown powerful explosive fireblasts, however he's only ever used them once, and never in a 1v1 against an opponent. Because of that, I highly doubt that explosives are going to be Mako's go to move, and even if he does use them, Tenzin's feats against P'li are more than enough to counter.

Countering Firejets:

I don't know if you'll use this argument, but you have in the past, so I'll try and counter it preemptively. Firejets are almost never used to dodge attacks, probably because it takes too long to activate, and you're generally restricted to one direction. Trying to claim Mako can dodge everything Tenzin can dish out using firejets is completely unsupported by evidence.

Countering Mako's Lightningbending

I have a high opinion of Mako's lightningbending, high enough that I consider him the verse's greatest in that department. However, it's still not enough for Mako to win, for two reasons. First, lightning is usually Mako's absolute last resort. In his fight with Ming Hua (the same mentality he's in here), he only used it when he was completely and utterly out of options and about to die without it. Trying to claim he'll go for lightning from the beginning or spam it is disingenuous at best. Second of all, Tenzin is more than fast enough to dodge lightning. I've already shown how fast he is above, but in case you try and claim instant lightning is undodgeable, here's a few examples of people as fast or slower than Tenzin reacting to it:

Amon is probably about as fast as Tenzin, and he reacts to a cheapshot lightning attack from behind.
Amon is probably about as fast as Tenzin, and he reacts to a cheapshot lightning attack from behind.
Here's Mai, who's slower than Tenzin by a wide margin (as in, can barely react to Azula), dodging cheapshot instant lightning.
Here's Mai, who's slower than Tenzin by a wide margin (as in, can barely react to Azula), dodging cheapshot instant lightning.
Here's Bolin lightning timing casually as well. Bolin is slower than Zaheer based on the Zaheer vs Mako and Bolin gif above, so significantly slower than Tenzin.
Here's Bolin lightning timing casually as well. Bolin is slower than Zaheer based on the Zaheer vs Mako and Bolin gif above, so significantly slower than Tenzin.

I think I've shown enough examples to prove that reacting to instant lightning is commonplace in avatar, even by people significantly slower than Tenzin. Considering Tenzin's speed and agility, the odds of lightning turning the tides even if Mako lasts long enough to use it are extremely low.

Tenzin's Advantages and Strategy

Tenzin has practically every advantage in this fight. These include, but are not limited to:

*Power

*Speed

*AOE

*Durability

*Versatility

*Agility and mobility

*Mako's best moves being OOC for him to use

Mako's only real advantage is physical strength, which is essentially irrelevant.

Tenzin's strategy is fairly simple. As soon as the fight starts, he's going to use the AOE move he used against the RL. As I showed above, it one shot people significantly tougher than Mako, and two people faster than Mako were completely unable to react to it. Mako has neither the speed to react to it, the moveset to counter it, or the durability to tank it, basically making the fight over in one move. This is also IC for him, as he used this move to start off his fight against the RL. If he somehow survives that move, Tenzin will simply use all of his advantages to keep tagging Mako until he goes down, which shouldn't take all that long, especially if you consider how casually he smacked Zaheer (who is faster, more agile, and can actually block Tenzin's attacks, unlike Mako) around. Tenzin is going to take this fight every time.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Marishtar (568 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Edited by Marishtar (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@mial42: Btw. i know this is an CAV so sry, but this would rly don't change anything it just corrects 2 errors:

The two scans with Azula you posted don't rly show that Suki reacts to and Mai dodges lightning, the former wasn't the target + jumped to her lower body and the latter wasn't able to dodge it there(Azula targeted deliberately to the ground).

But like i said it wouldn't change anything, cause Mai actually dodged exactly 2 sites before your posted scan Azulas lightning(so i would use that as example, i mean you don't need to if you don't want :)

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#11 Edited by Helloman (7152 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#12 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

@marishtar: With Mai, one fork hits the ground and the other goes to where Mai was just standing.

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#13 Edited by Marishtar (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@mial42 said:

@marishtar: With Mai, one fork hits the ground and the other goes to where Mai was just standing.

Well i mean it's theoretically possible, but considering the context that she falls to the ground and Azula targeted beforehand the ground too(as Mai clearly dodged), would i say that certain example is very shaky(and to me looks it much more like the other fork goes to the side, especially on the full page).

But there is a better clear-cut example, so i would simply recommend to use that instead:

No Caption Provided

And like i said, i'm well aware that this is a CAV. So sry again for interrupting, i just wanted to clarify that.

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#14 Edited by Huskii (395 posts) - - Show Bio

Mako

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Mako is the best firebender in the LOK era, naturally talented and possessing the rarest and most powerful attack in the Avatarverse, Mako has continued to improve as the series progressed. Being one of the best probenders in the game, he is a powerful threat outside of the ring, going from holding his own against a master like Unalaq to completely fighting on even terms with the likes of Ming-Hua, someone just as fast and 2x more deadly than Tenzin. His mastery of the art landed him as the bodyguard of Prince Wu, assigned by Chief Lin herself, which shows how others have an high opinion of his abilities. I'll present Mako's key aspects that I feel tips this battle in his favor. You already had the courtesy to counter points before they were even made ( Why? ), for my character!

Firebending

Mako is not only the superior bender but the superior fighter as it is the nature of his element and he's good enough to draw the attention of the likes of Zolt or Amon, infamous master benders that took note of his impressive talent. Mako will have no trouble using his bending to quickly overwhelm Tenzin as Tenzin has never faced a firebender or even another serious bender who was not Zaheer. Mako is noted for his trademark "Cool Under Fire" style, this only making his firebending even more dangerous. His attacks having a range that reaches over a hundred feet to further overwhelm and keep the old man at bay until he wants to move in.

Mako is an absolute beast when it comes to offense. His combos and speed is unrivalled and Tenzin has never faced anyone that moves like this. He fires off 5 attacks in rapid succession, Tenzin hasn't ever moved like this and I doubt he'll block all of this
Mako is an absolute beast when it comes to offense. His combos and speed is unrivalled and Tenzin has never faced anyone that moves like this. He fires off 5 attacks in rapid succession, Tenzin hasn't ever moved like this and I doubt he'll block all of this
These fireblast are significantly larger and more powerful than the ones above and he still fires them off with the same speed and ferocity. Amon only being able to dodge them because of his bloodbending throwing people's aim off which can be seen by his gestures now, and Mako having to focus on not tagging Korra who is directly behind him
These fireblast are significantly larger and more powerful than the ones above and he still fires them off with the same speed and ferocity. Amon only being able to dodge them because of his bloodbending throwing people's aim off which can be seen by his gestures now, and Mako having to focus on not tagging Korra who is directly behind him

"Cool Under Fire"

As I already mentioned above, Mako is famous for his style. His "Cool Under Fire" style is different from traditional firebending ( Tenzin having zero experience against firebending, or even masters in general ) so Tenzin will already have the preset mindset of what firebenders usually fight like and how he's seen Korra train once but Mako's technique will be completely foreign to him. Mako's attack style involves him firing a flurry of quick fire jabs and kicks to get the opponent off balance, nicely bobbing and weaving to avoid returning attacks, and finishing with a well timed counter. This will really catch Tenzin off guard because he isn't that familiar with probending either, in which Mako's style is heavily influenced on, meaning he's light on his feet at all times and Mako is already #1 in physical agility further helping him avoid and evade like an airbender.

Avoids 4 different attacks from 3 opponents and returns 2 attacks while still taking fire. With this level of skill he can take on entire teams by himself, no doubt at all he will be dodging Tenzin's attacks.
Avoids 4 different attacks from 3 opponents and returns 2 attacks while still taking fire. With this level of skill he can take on entire teams by himself, no doubt at all he will be dodging Tenzin's attacks.
More bobbing and weaving. Take note that these probending attacks come at different angles and at a faster pace than how Tenzin attacks, which is kind of slow really.
More bobbing and weaving. Take note that these probending attacks come at different angles and at a faster pace than how Tenzin attacks, which is kind of slow really.

Physical Capabilities

Mako outshines Tenzin in every physical way. Tenzin has never showed any noteworthy agility without the aid of his bending, while Mako does all the time. His durability is also alot better than Tenzin's. You fail to show any real damage that Tenzin could have taken, alot of the examples you showed were just warning shots and half attacks from the Red Lotus who didn't even want to kill him and it couldn't be even more obvious but I'll save that for the counters.

After an entire day of nonstop action, getting bloodbent previously which drains you, Mako takes a horrible ragdolling from Amon and is still conscious. This is worse than any amount of airbending damage Tenzin could do and Mako has tanked airbending twice.
After an entire day of nonstop action, getting bloodbent previously which drains you, Mako takes a horrible ragdolling from Amon and is still conscious. This is worse than any amount of airbending damage Tenzin could do and Mako has tanked airbending twice.
Dances around a mech's attacks easily while up close, Mako will do the same against some airbending, and oh look, Tenzin needing airbending to move on the same level as Mako like I said.
Dances around a mech's attacks easily while up close, Mako will do the same against some airbending, and oh look, Tenzin needing airbending to move on the same level as Mako like I said.

Counters

Blasts Ghazan before he can react, then trades blows with both Ming Hua and Zaheer, also some of the fastest characters in the series.

Mako wasn't able to react to Zaheer alone (he couldn't have stopped the attack, but he could have braced himself).

Mako can barely keep up with Ming Hua.

Quickly scales the Northern Air Temple. Also tags Zaheer mid-air, a nice counter for firejets if Mako uses them.

think it's clear that Tenzin is much faster than Mako is, able to stomp people faster than Mako and able to go toe to toe with two people faster than Mako. He's also more agile and evasive than Mako is, which in conjunction with his superior speed, defense, and AOE will ensure that he hits Mako much more often than Mako hits him.

  • The Red Lotus were not giving it there all because they needed him alive. That's obvious by the fact that Ming and Ghazan weren't bending on the same scale as they did his siblings, lavabending and multiple water arms to try and kill them. Whereas against him they slowly fired with small scale bending like a fist sized rock...
  • That's lowballing and fails to help your case. Mako was confined within a cell with Bolin next to him, he could not have possibly had dodged an attack large enough to fling two grown men feet apart while in that cell.
  • What battle did you watch? He kept ahead of Ming Hua the entire battle, and the example you showed was her merely taking advantage of his weakened firebending, not agility in which he still outclasses Tenzin.
  • Uh wow. He hit a fleeing, inferior, airbender while his back was turned. Mako has better scaling capabilities than Zaheer and Tenzin would never get the opportunity to do that as Tenzin will most likely be the one avoiding Mako
  • Tenzin only stomped Zaheer because he was the superior airbender not because Zaheer was faster, and he isn't, how exactly will Tenzin be able to directly counter fire or scare Mako into running away? The Red Lotus were holding back.
Can keep up with Ming Hua without even using his bending to enhance movement. Ming's attacks are more powerful than Tenzin's too, shattering stone and having more speed. With firejets he moves much faster and is more nimble.
Can keep up with Ming Hua without even using his bending to enhance movement. Ming's attacks are more powerful than Tenzin's too, shattering stone and having more speed. With firejets he moves much faster and is more nimble.
Keeps up and wears down Ming Hua who is faster than Zaheer due to her lighter frame and water arms. Tenzin isn't the only one who can scale using his bending, difference between this fight and Tenzin's is that Mako's opponent was fighting back while moving up and Mako can attack from the air
Keeps up and wears down Ming Hua who is faster than Zaheer due to her lighter frame and water arms. Tenzin isn't the only one who can scale using his bending, difference between this fight and Tenzin's is that Mako's opponent was fighting back while moving up and Mako can attack from the air

Durability:

Tanks a cheapshot from P'li, but recovers mid fall.

Tanks a cheapshot from Ming Hua and Ghazan. Ming regularly shatters stone and steel, and Ghazan's rock straight up turned to dust on Tenzin's face.

Tenzin's durability means that even if Mako somehow gets past all of Tenzin's other advantages, he can't one shot him with anything but his strongest attacks.

  • Not a full powered one, it was about the same size as Mako's weakest explosive blast and it wasn't even directed at him. It hit a wall and the blast force pushed him
  • Again not full powered ones and they were clearly holding back otherwise Ming would have strangled him as Ghazan created a lava pit underneath him. P'li also would have fired more shots
  • He has decent durability, not better than Mako's. None of the examples will keep him alive when lightning strikes him
  • If they wanted Tenzin dead he would have been 1 shotted immediately
No Caption Provided

Mako tanked a direct blast from P'li that was stronger and recovered at a faster rate than the old man. Mako can take some airblasts that barely have the potential to K.O anyone including little kids.

Countering Tenzin's "counters" to firebending:

Basic Fire Offense:

Mako's basic fireblasts are his most commonly used move by far, and considering this fight is IC, that's what he's going to be using for the majority of the fight. Tenzin's defense won't even be strained by these, and he can't overwhelm Tenzin with volume either, considering Tenzin's speed advantage. Alternately, he can just attack through the fireblasts, cooling them and hitting Mako.

Explosive Fireblasts:

Mako has shown powerful explosive fireblasts, however he's only ever used them once, and never in a 1v1 against an opponent. Because of that, I highly doubt that explosives are going to be Mako's go to move, and even if he does use them, Tenzin's feats against P'li are more than enough to counter.

Countering Firejets:

I don't know if you'll use this argument, but you have in the past, so I'll try and counter it preemptively. Firejets are almost never used to dodge attacks, probably because it takes too long to activate, and you're generally restricted to one direction. Trying to claim Mako can dodge everything Tenzin can dish out using firejets is completely unsupported by evidence.

  • Mako's basic offense will be enough to contend with and wear down Tenzin as I already explained in the beginning of my opening. He's too fast, nimble, and ferocious, Tenzin has never faced anyone like Mako.
  • It matters not whether Mako uses them or not, he can win without them. But Mako is adaptive and if he needs it he will most likely resort to them, they are just as powerful as the one's Tenzin got scrapped by when against the Red Lotus. A direct blast will surely do more. Speaking of attacks Tenzin has never used in a bending battle, 1v1 or 4v1, is his airspout which leads me to believe that he won't use it here
  • You made this up, fire jets can be used to dodge attacks, obviously, they were shown to do so quite a few times, so don't try to make the technique sound complicated to help your argument. Firejets are casually done just like Tenzin using enhanced air jumps. Mako won't even need firejets to dodge attacks from Tenzin.
His widespread fire slices combined with his speed will keep Tenzin moving, opening him up to vulnerabilities that Mako can exploit. Maybe a clean lightning strike
His widespread fire slices combined with his speed will keep Tenzin moving, opening him up to vulnerabilities that Mako can exploit. Maybe a clean lightning strike

Countering "counters" to lightning:

I have a high opinion of Mako's lightningbending, high enough that I consider him the verse's greatest in that department. However, it's still not enough for Mako to win, for two reasons. First, lightning is usually Mako's absolute last resort. In his fight with Ming Hua (the same mentality he's in here), he only used it when he was completely and utterly out of options and about to die without it. Trying to claim he'll go for lightning from the beginning or spam it is disingenuous at best. Second of all, Tenzin is more than fast enough to dodge lightning. I've already shown how fast he is above, but in case you try and claim instant lightning is undodgeable, here's a few examples of people as fast or slower than Tenzin reacting to it:

Here's Mai, who's slower than Tenzin by a wide margin (as in, can barely react to Azula), dodging cheapshot instant lightning.
Here's Mai, who's slower than Tenzin by a wide margin (as in, can barely react to Azula), dodging cheapshot instant lightning.
And here's Suki, who is at best as fast as Tenzin via scaling, reacting to instant lightning.
And here's Suki, who is at best as fast as Tenzin via scaling, reacting to instant lightning.

I think I've shown enough examples to prove that reacting to instant lightning is commonplace in avatar, even by people significantly slower than Tenzin. Considering Tenzin's speed and agility, the odds of lightning turning the tides even if Mako lasts long enough to use it are extremely low.

A flaw in your unnecessary precognative countering. I was never going to claim that Mako would spam lightning to win. Lightning is a crucial factor here that'll land Mako the win and him using it as an last resort is fine.

Thats not Mako's lightning so irrelevant. Azula's lightning is weaker, so therefore slower and since when did all benders fire attacks that move at the sane speed? Last I checked everyone dodged Azula's lightning while Mako's has only been avoided by the trickster Amon who bends off aim. Keep your arguments strictly on Mako's superior lightning.

No that's Suki who is already grappling Azula, slamming her down before she can properly react. Again that's not Mako's lightning which is strong enough to kill and can be streamed. The top panel of your scan shows Zuko no showing Azula's lightning so...

Mechs don't have lightning they fire electrical orbs that are slow and have a visible charge that even fodder prisoners can avoid. Another flaw in your faulty comparisons.

Mako's lightning kills/ knocks out unlike Azula's.
Mako's lightning kills/ knocks out unlike Azula's.

All of your examples are moot as Mako perfectly times his lightning and never misses, excluding Amon that 1 time. He will hit Tenzin with lightning the second the moment presents itself and Tenzin won't expect it. He won't be spamming weak and slow bolts like Azula. His lightning travels fast, near instantly at mid range, instantly at range.

Tenzin's adavantages disproved:

Tenzin has practically every advantage in this fight. These include, but are not limited to:

*Power

*Speed

*AOE

*Durability

*Versatility

*Agility and mobility

*Mako's best moves being OOC for him to use

Mako's only real advantage is physical strength, which is essentially irrelevant.

Tenzin's strategy is fairly simple. As soon as the fight starts, he's going to use the AOE move he used against the RL. As I showed above, it one shot people significantly tougher than Mako, and two people faster than Mako were completely unable to react to it. Mako has neither the speed to react to it, the moveset to counter it, or the durability to tank it, basically making the fight over in one move. This is also IC for him, as he used this move to start off his fight against the RL. If he somehow survives that move, Tenzin will simply use all of his advantages to keep tagging Mako until he goes down, which shouldn't take all that long, especially if you consider how casually he smacked Zaheer (who is faster, more agile, and can actually block Tenzin's attacks, unlike Mako) around. Tenzin is going to take this fight every time.

Tenzin literally only has one of the listed and it's barely AoE

  • Mako has more power, size, and range
  • Mako is the faster bender, firing off over six attacks in a second
  • Mako takes more punishment all the time and recovers quickly
  • Mako can use fire and lightning as opposed to just air
  • Mako has more agility even without bending to amp him
With his bending to aid him he outclasses Tenzin completely
With his bending to aid him he outclasses Tenzin completely

Your own rules restrict Tenzin from using some of the powerful attacks you showed off:

Only used when restrained and when outnumbered by non benders who couldn't stop him from doing that anyway
Only used when restrained and when outnumbered by non benders who couldn't stop him from doing that anyway
Used against a giant mech that he could easily outmaneuver
Used against a giant mech that he could easily outmaneuver

The rules state that the fighters are in-character and are as serious as they were against the Red Lotus, meaning absolutely serious...Yet Tenzin did none of the two even with multiple lives at stake including his family and Korra. Meaning he doesn't normally do these things. And quite honestly, you don't expect Mako to allow him to even pull these off?

Tenzin's fighting style revolves around classic airbending tactics, mostly dodging, and his offense is very underwhelming:

Even against Amon he didn't use those largescale attacks and he's more of a threat than Mako or the Red Lotus
Even against Amon he didn't use those largescale attacks and he's more of a threat than Mako or the Red Lotus
Zaheer has less durability than Mako but tanked that air jab just fine
Zaheer has less durability than Mako but tanked that air jab just fine

As you can see, Tenzin just goes for causal air jabs. Attacks that Mako is complete natural at dodging without breaking a sweat! He won't be capable of besting Mako with just these but Mako will be besting him with his. Mako's "Cool Under Fire" works perfectly here.

Mako's strategy is simply to fight the way he always does and he'll win. He can't be overwhelmed due to his quickness and well spaced attacking and evading, and if he needs to he will pursue Tenzin with blazing speed on his fire jets like he did Ming Hua. In fact I'm 95% sure he will go for the "Speedrush" at the start just like in the catacombs, Tenzin being an airbender might push him to attack harder too.

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#15 Posted by Itachus17 (966 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#16 Edited by thebuckaronatr (792 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Edited by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I can handle a cocky pro-bender.
I think I can handle a cocky pro-bender.

Counters

Countering Your Foreword

Mako is the best firebender in the LOK era

This is highly debatable. P'li's feats blow his out of the water, and Korra could arguably take him in firebending. If you count Wan as LOK era, is feats are better as well.

and possessing the rarest and most powerful attack in the Avatarverse

Mako is neither a combustion bender nor a bloodbender, so IDK where this is coming from.

holding his own against a master like Unalaq

Unalaq humiliated him with a water pouch:

Unalaq smacked Mako with a single pouch.
Unalaq smacked Mako with a single pouch.

And curbstomped him and Bolin at the same time in the Spirit World:

Mako isn't even close to Unalaq's league.
Mako isn't even close to Unalaq's league.

fighting on even terms with the likes of Ming-Hua

Actually, Mako got curbstomped in their first encounter:

Mako got near-blitzed and one-shotted.
Mako got near-blitzed and one-shotted.

In their second fight, Mako did better, but Ming Hua was hindered. Even then, he only won because of lightning being a hard counter to Ming's style, not an issue here.

Ming Hua tanked an AS attack that involved a boulder hitting her hard enough to completely shatter, and cratering the stone wall behind her, shortly before Mako fought her.
Ming Hua tanked an AS attack that involved a boulder hitting her hard enough to completely shatter, and cratering the stone wall behind her, shortly before Mako fought her.
Furthermore, Ming was restricted to only two arms, allowing Mako to evaporate her source, not possible against an airbender.
Furthermore, Ming was restricted to only two arms, allowing Mako to evaporate her source, not possible against an airbender.

someone just as fast and 2x more deadly than Tenzin

Ming Hua is probably around Tenzin's speed if we look at averages (Tenzin's best > Ming Hua's best though), but Mako only beat her in a fight with heavy context, and Tenzin is a completely different opponent.

Countering Firebending

he's good enough to draw the attention of the likes of Zolt or Amon,

Zolt is glorified fodder, and Amon only took notice of Mako when Mako was straight up attacking him. On the other hand, the equalists made specific plans to take down Tenzin (plans that failed because Tenzin is a badass).

Tenzin has never faced a firebender or even another serious bender who was not Zaheer.

Tenzin has had encounters with P'li, and he's fought beside Korra and Mako plenty of times. He's got experience with firebending. Furthermore, Mako's never fought an airbender, doesn't mean he'll be helpless against Tenzin (he'll be helpless for entirely different reasons). As far as serious benders go, that's technically true, but Tenzin's fought plenty of other opponents such as Dark Spirits, Mecha Tanks, Equalist Fodder, and a holding back RL.

Mako is noted for his trademark "Cool Under Fire" style, this only making his firebending even more dangerous.

Literally all this means is that Mako doesn't lose his head in a fight. That's it. Tenzin doesn't panic in fights either.

His attacks having a range that reaches over a hundred feet to further overwhelm and keep the old man at bay until he wants to move in.

The fight starts at twenty feet, and Tenzin's going to keep it mid-range with his superior mobility. Mako's range is irrelevant.

Mako is an absolute beast when it comes to offense. His combos and speed is unrivalled and Tenzin has never faced anyone that moves like this. He fires off 5 attacks in rapid succession, Tenzin hasn't ever moved like this and I doubt he'll block all of this

His attack speed is good. So is Zaheer's:

And we both know how Zaheer vs Tenzin went.
And we both know how Zaheer vs Tenzin went.

Attack speed is only one part of combat speed. Also, Tenzin can just block them all with an AOE shield or attack:

He can just do this.
He can just do this.
Or this.
Or this.
Or this.
Or this.
Or this.
Or this.

He's got plenty of ways to handle Mako's attack speed.

Tenzin having zero experience against firebending, or even masters in general

Tenzin has experience with firebending, more than Mako does with air. Also, Tenzin is an airbending master, Mako isn't a master, and Mako's primary experience fighting master is getting stomped.

so Tenzin will already have the preset mindset of what firebenders usually fight like and how he's seen Korra train once

He's also fought alongside her and Mako multiple times. He knows how Mako fights.

but Mako's technique will be completely foreign to him. Mako's attack style involves him firing a flurry of quick fire jabs and kicks to get the opponent off balance, nicely bobbing and weaving to avoid returning attacks, and finishing with a well timed counter. This will really catch Tenzin off guard because he isn't that familiar with probending either,

You do realize Tenzin's seen Mako probend right? He was at the championship finals, y'know, where Lin and Korra went after Amon? Also, all his bobbing and weaving won't help him against AOE.

in which Mako's style is heavily influenced on, meaning he's light on his feet at all times and Mako is already #1 in physical agility further helping him avoid and evade like an airbender.

Zaheer's agility sh*ts on Mako's:

Just an example. I have more if you need it.
Just an example. I have more if you need it.

And Tenzin curbed him. Korra is also more agile than Mako is:

A dodging feat that laughs at Mako's probending.
A dodging feat that laughs at Mako's probending.

And Korra and Tenzin are generally portrayed as equals when it comes to evasion:

Notice how they dodge at the same speed, in the same way?
Notice how they dodge at the same speed, in the same way?

Also, probending evasion =/= airbending evasion. Remember how in Korra's first game, she (and Mako and Bolin) were wrecked, but Korra then incorporated airbending movements and became untouchable? Now imagine how much better a grandmaster would do.

Avoids 4 different attacks from 3 opponents and returns 2 attacks while still taking fire. With this level of skill he can take on entire teams by himself, no doubt at all he will be dodging Tenzin's attacks.

Great! Mako can dodge attacks from probending fodder, and take on teams of them. Tenzin can take on RL members (who even holding back are hilariously above probending fodder). And dodging point attacks is quite different from dodging AOE, you don't need much movement to dodge a basic fireblast, but Tenzin's attacks are much harder to dodge.

More bobbing and weaving. Take note that these probending attacks come at different angles and at a faster pace than how Tenzin attacks, which is kind of slow really.

Bobbing and weaving isn't going to work on attacks as large as he is or larger. Tenzin's not slow at all:

Not slow.
Not slow.
And here he's casually defending from Zaheer's spamming. I've already shown Zaheer's attack speed above.
And here he's casually defending from Zaheer's spamming. I've already shown Zaheer's attack speed above.

Unlike Mako however, Tenzin doesn't rely on sheer volume, preferring to dodge and counter almost simultaneously:

He tags Zaheer by ducking his air blade and blasting him.
He tags Zaheer by ducking his air blade and blasting him.
He does almost exactly the same thing here.
He does almost exactly the same thing here.

Or he uses AOE to tag his enemies:

Mako's spamming couldn't touch Amon, but Tenzin sent him flying with AOE. Also note that Tenzin fires and lands two hits in the time it takes Mako to shoot one, more than enough to counter the idea that Mako has faster attack speed.
Mako's spamming couldn't touch Amon, but Tenzin sent him flying with AOE. Also note that Tenzin fires and lands two hits in the time it takes Mako to shoot one, more than enough to counter the idea that Mako has faster attack speed.
Three people, two of which are significantly faster and more agile than Mako, couldn't handle this.
Three people, two of which are significantly faster and more agile than Mako, couldn't handle this.

Mako's firebending still isn't good enough to beat Tenzin.

Countering Physical Abilities

Mako outshines Tenzin in every physical way. Tenzin has never showed any noteworthy agility without the aid of his bending, while Mako does all the time.

I already showed Tenzin matching physical agility with Korra, who's above Mako. Also, this is completely irrelevant, considering Tenzin has his bending here.

His durability is also alot better than Tenzin's. You fail to show any real damage that Tenzin could have taken, alot of the examples you showed were just warning shots and half attacks from the Red Lotus who didn't even want to kill him and it couldn't be even more obvious but I'll save that for the counters.

The fact that the RL wasn't trying to kill him and was holding back doesn't make their attacks weak. Ming Hua one shotted Mako while holding back, and tanking rocks pulverizing on your face and indirect combustion blasts is still very good.

After an entire day of nonstop action, getting bloodbent previously which drains you,

Proof bloodbending drains you? Katara, Aang, and Sokka all recovered nigh-instantly after being bloodbent.

Mako takes a horrible ragdolling from Amon and is still conscious. This is worse than any amount of airbending damage Tenzin could do and Mako has tanked airbending twice.

Amon was ragdolling Mako a couple of feet at most into the hallway sides. There's no reason to believe it's more damaging than, say, this:

He knocks a guy into a stone wall hard enough to crater it.
He knocks a guy into a stone wall hard enough to crater it.

Also, I recall the first time (when Zaheer made him look like a punk, Zaheer being much weaker than Tenzin and not trying to KO or kill Mako), but what's the second time?

Dances around a mech's attacks easily while up close, Mako will do the same against some airbending, and oh look, Tenzin needing airbending to move on the same level as Mako like I said.

He dances around a relatively slow, telegraphed, mech's attacks with less AOE than Tenzin can dish out. Fabulous. Tenzin used airbending in that one instance, doesn't mean he needed to. I already showed his equivalency with Korra, so here's him doing the same with Zaheer:

Again, both Zaheer and Korra are > Mako physically.
Again, both Zaheer and Korra are > Mako physically.

Not that this matters, since Tenzin has his bending here.

Defending My Points

Speed and Agility

The Red Lotus were not giving it there all because they needed him alive. That's obvious by the fact that Ming and Ghazan weren't bending on the same scale as they did his siblings, lavabending and multiple water arms to try and kill them. Whereas against him they slowly fired with small scale bending like a fist sized rock...

I'm well aware they were holding back. That doesn't change their speed.

That's lowballing and fails to help your case. Mako was confined within a cell with Bolin next to him, he could not have possibly had dodged an attack large enough to fling two grown men feet apart while in that cell.

Doesn't matter. Unalaq and Amon were also faced with unavoidable airbending and reacted to it, unlike the bros.

Pretty self explanatory. You can see him bracing as he's blown off the stage.
Pretty self explanatory. You can see him bracing as he's blown off the stage.
Unalaq also braces himself.
Unalaq also braces himself.

What battle did you watch? He kept ahead of Ming Hua the entire battle, and the example you showed was her merely taking advantage of his weakened firebending, not agility in which he still outclasses Tenzin.

He ran away for a grand total of 20 seconds. That was the entire battle, but only because he got stomped. None of his agility showings remotely compare to Tenzin scaling the air temple.

Uh wow. He hit a fleeing, inferior, airbender while his back was turned. Mako has better scaling capabilities than Zaheer and Tenzin would never get the opportunity to do that as Tenzin will most likely be the one avoiding Mako

He tagged him mid-air. That's a good counter if Mako decides to use firejets for some reason. Also, Tenzin isn't going to be the one running in this fight.

Tenzin only stomped Zaheer because he was the superior airbender not because Zaheer was faster, and he isn't, how exactly will Tenzin be able to directly counter fire or scare Mako into running away? The Red Lotus were holding back.

I'm well aware Tenzin primarily stomped because of his skill, but if he wasn't as fast as Zaheer he wouldn't have been able to do it. Tenzin will just block Mako's fireblasts. Air has always been a good counter to fire, this fight won't be any exception. I know the RL was holding back.

Can keep up with Ming Hua without even using his bending to enhance movement. Ming's attacks are more powerful than Tenzin's too, shattering stone and having more speed. With firejets he moves much faster and is more nimble.

Firejets are relatively unwieldy without the comet, that's why they're almost never used in combat.

Keeps up and wears down Ming Hua who is faster than Zaheer due to her lighter frame and water arms.

I'd say Ming Hua at her best is faster than Zaheer (for example against E&D). However their average showings are pretty close, with Zaheer potentially having an advantage (he dispatched Kya more easily than Ming did, despite Kya having help, a free shot, and an environmental advantage). Zaheer is definitely faster than Ming Hua at her worst.

Tenzin isn't the only one who can scale using his bending, difference between this fight and Tenzin's is that Mako's opponent was fighting back while moving up and Mako can attack from the air

Another difference is that Tenzin's opponent hadn't just been smashed in the face by bloodlusted AS Korra, nor was he restricted in his elemental access. BTW Tenzin can attack from the air too:

Surprising Zaheer.
Surprising Zaheer.

Overall, Tenzin still has a major speed/agility advantage.

Durability

Not a full powered one, it was about the same size as Mako's weakest explosive blast and it wasn't even directed at him. It hit a wall and the blast force pushed him

Size =/= potency. P'li's casual attacks can destroy human sized boulders in one hit:

No need to really explain.
No need to really explain.

Again not full powered ones and they were clearly holding back otherwise Ming would have strangled him as Ghazan created a lava pit underneath him. P'li also would have fired more shots

I know they were holding back. Doesn't change the fact that ice and rock projectile were shattering on his face.

He has decent durability, not better than Mako's. None of the examples will keep him alive when lightning strikes him

His feats are better than the ones you've shown so far.

If they wanted Tenzin dead he would have been 1 shotted immediately

Speculation based on nothing. He would've died for sure, but he wouldn't have been one shot.

Mako tanked a direct blast from P'li that was stronger and recovered at a faster rate than the old man. Mako can take some airblasts that barely have the potential to K.O anyone including little kids.

That wasn't a direct hit either, it exploded right in front of him. There's also some evidence that her curved shots are weaker than her straight shots. For example:

These shots are only hitting a few feet away from the sisters, and there is nothing between them and the explosions but air, yet it does nothing to Lin or Suyin.
These shots are only hitting a few feet away from the sisters, and there is nothing between them and the explosions but air, yet it does nothing to Lin or Suyin.

On the other hand, all of her high end power feats are straight shots:

Just an example. Here she one shots Tonraq through a shield.
Just an example. Here she one shots Tonraq through a shield.

Lastly, Tenzin can knock around mecha tanks and KO 3/4 of the RL, his attacks aren't weak at all.

Defending My Counters

Firebending

Mako's basic offense will be enough to contend with and wear down Tenzin as I already explained in the beginning of my opening. He's too fast, nimble, and ferocious, Tenzin has never faced anyone like Mako.

Mako's basic offense gets fodderized by anything Tenzin does. Tenzin faced Zaheer, who's faster, nimbler, and more ferocious and stomped him.

It matters not whether Mako uses them or not, he can win without them. But Mako is adaptive and if he needs it he will most likely resort to them, they are just as powerful as the one's Tenzin got scrapped by when against the Red Lotus.

They're bigger, but not more potent. And yes, Mako could beat Tenzin if Tenzin was fighting several other high tier opponents at once.

A direct blast will surely do more. Speaking of attacks Tenzin has never used in a bending battle, 1v1 or 4v1, is his airspout which leads me to believe that he won't use it here

A direct blast will get blocked by feats. His airspout is in no way essential to my strategy.

You made this up, fire jets can be used to dodge attacks, obviously, they were shown to do so quite a few times, so don't try to make the technique sound complicated to help your argument. Firejets are casually done just like Tenzin using enhanced air jumps. Mako won't even need firejets to dodge attacks from Tenzin.

I didn't say it was complicated, I said it was almost never used in combat, probably because it's rather unwieldy, especially Mako's version, which requires both hands. Air jumps aren't comparable, airbenders don't need to use any sort of special movement for them. From what I recall, the only firebender to actually dodge an attack with them without the comet was Wan, who is not Mako and whose feats cannot be given to Mako.

His widespread fire slices combined with his speed will keep Tenzin moving, opening him up to vulnerabilities that Mako can exploit. Maybe a clean lightning strike

Or, alternately, Tenzin justs blocks them.

Lightning

A flaw in your unnecessary precognative countering. I was never going to claim that Mako would spam lightning to win. Lightning is a crucial factor here that'll land Mako the win and him using it as an last resort is fine.

I'm glad you didn't, but I've seen "lightning spam GG" arguments too often to not address it.

Thats not Mako's lightning so irrelevant. Azula's lightning is weaker, so therefore slower and since when did all benders fire attacks that move at the sane speed? Last I checked everyone dodged Azula's lightning while Mako's has only been avoided by the trickster Amon who bends off aim. Keep your arguments strictly on Mako's superior lightning.

Even if I assume Mako's lightning is faster than Azula's (which there is precisely 0 evidence for), that doesn't change much. Amon dodged AFTER Mako fired, Mako didn't miss, so that was pure speed on Amon's part. The fact that only Amon has dodged it is also irrelevant when you consider that the only other non fodder opponent Mako used it on was Ming Hua, in a situation where she had no chance of escape. If Amon can dodge it, then Tenzin with his at least equal speed should be able to do the same.

All of your examples are moot as Mako perfectly times his lightning and never misses, excluding Amon that 1 time. He will hit Tenzin with lightning the second the moment presents itself and Tenzin won't expect it. He won't be spamming weak and slow bolts like Azula. His lightning travels fast, near instantly at mid range, instantly at range.

Doesn't matter how accurate he is, since Tenzin can react after he fires. Also, you have yet to provide proof that Azula's lightning is slower than Mako's. Until you do, that is speculation. Like I just said, he didn't miss against Amon, Amon dodged.

Defending My Advantages

Tenzin literally only has one of the listed and it's barely AoE

Disproved above.

Mako has more power, size, and range

Maybe range, and that's it.

Mako is the faster bender, firing off over six attacks in a second

It was only five over short period of time up there, now it's six in a second? Zaheer's matched that and has better consistent speed, as well as outspeeding Mako directly, and yet Tenzin still spanked him.

Mako takes more punishment all the time and recovers quickly

You mean he tanked a single, potentially weaker explosion in one of the only times he wasn't one-shotted.

Mako can use fire and lightning as opposed to just air

Doesn't matter. Baby Korra could use three elements but she'd still get wrecked by your average fodder.

Mako has more agility even without bending to amp him

His agility is below Tenzin's unamped agility, and way below Tenzin's amped agility.

The rules state that the fighters are in-character and are as serious as they were against the Red Lotus, meaning absolutely serious...Yet Tenzin did none of the two even with multiple lives at stake including his family and Korra. Meaning he doesn't normally do these things. And quite honestly, you don't expect Mako to allow him to even pull these off?

He doesn't need his absolute highest end power moves to beat Mako. Mako, on the other hand, needs his absolute best and rather OOC moves (lightning and explosions) to even have a ghost of a chance (he'd still lose).

Even against Amon he didn't use those largescale attacks and he's more of a threat than Mako or the Red Lotus

Against Amon he was just trying to knock him away so they could escape. Also, Amon's durability is extremely good, so not one shotting him isn't a low showing:

He no sold a large firebending explosion from Korra.
He no sold a large firebending explosion from Korra.

Even knocking him around is a decent feat.

Zaheer has less durability than Mako but tanked that air jab just fine

Zaheer is significantly more durable than Mako is:

Zaheer basically shrugged this off. A similar slam from Ming Hua one shotted Mako.
Zaheer basically shrugged this off. A similar slam from Ming Hua one shotted Mako.

And Tenzin had him on his knees after three hits.

As you can see, Tenzin just goes for causal air jabs. Attacks that Mako is complete natural at dodging without breaking a sweat! He won't be capable of besting Mako with just these but Mako will be besting him with his. Mako's "Cool Under Fire" works perfectly here.

Yes, Tenzin's most used attacks are casual airblasts. However, those blasts still hit hard enough to put Mako on his knees, and are larger than Mako is prepared to deal with.

Anyways, the only specific move (that isn't generalized air blasts or agility) in my strategy is his air attack that KOed the RL, which you'd know if you'd bothered to counter my strategy.

Mako's strategy is simply to fight the way he always does and he'll win. He can't be overwhelmed due to his quickness and well spaced attacking and evading, and if he needs to he will pursue Tenzin with blazing speed on his fire jets like he did Ming Hua. In fact I'm 95% sure he will go for the "Speedrush" at the start just like in the catacombs, Tenzin being an airbender might push him to attack harder too.

Okay then. Since you didn't bother countering my strategy, I'll reiterate the basics right here: anti-RL air attack GG. You still haven't posted a counter. As it is, I've already countered everything in this strategy elsewhere.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

@huskii

My first set of counters are up. 2 posts left for you, one for me, unless you have something else in mind.

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#19 Edited by Huskii (395 posts) - - Show Bio

That was lame
That was lame

Responses

Don't know why you bothered to counter my foreword ( It's just a bio ) with opinions and lies that bring nothing to this particular fight but I'm ignoring it. So what you think Mako isn't the best firebender or foolishly believe he got stomped by Ming Hua? Speaking of Ming, she was not effected by AS Korra in the finale, she just took a nap before facing Mako, if she was incapable of fighting she wouldn't have attacked him or been able to go octopus form which takes alot of focus and water.

Countering Firebending:

Tenzin has had encounters with P'li, and he's fought beside Korra and Mako plenty of times. He's got experience with firebending. Furthermore, Mako's never fought an airbender, doesn't mean he'll be helpless against Tenzin (he'll be helpless for entirely different reasons). As far as serious benders go, that's technically true, but Tenzin's fought plenty of other opponents such as Dark Spirits, Mecha Tanks, Equalist Fodder, and a holding back RL.

Tenzin has no experience with firebending. Just because he's seen them in action it doesn't mean that he is equipped to handle one. Mako has been facing teams of pro benders and Ming Hua, all agile benders that focus on speed primarily just like an airbender. He's also a firebender so the battle will be he's any way, Tenzin won't be the aggressor, as stupid and out of character that would be.

The fight starts at twenty feet, and Tenzin's going to keep it mid-range with his superior mobility. Mako's range is irrelevant.

No he won't.

Tenzin has experience with firebending, more than Mako does with air. Also, Tenzin is an airbending master, Mako isn't a master, and Mako's primary experience fighting master is getting stomped.

Mako is a master. He can lightningbend and your own words just contradicted your statement, what happen to him being the best lightningbender in the series? Also Zhao is a master, food for thought.

His attack speed is good. So is Zaheer's:

No it isn't. There isn't a single instance where he even attacks as fast as Mako or even Zaheer. He only beat Zaheer because as an airbender he could directly counter everything, something he can't against Mako.

Attack speed is only one part of combat speed. Also, Tenzin can just block them all with an AOE shield or attack:

Prove that he can block head on attacks from Mako. He's only successfully blocked firebending with no recoil from weak indirect combustion blasts that detonated a few feet away from him. And if Tenzin will just sit there and try and block all the fire, Mako will throw in a little lightning for him. Gg.

Zaheer's agility sh*ts on Mako's:

Okay, I disagree but Zaheer did none of that against Tenzin and what difference would it have made when Zaheer was running away with his back turned most of the fight. His agility wouldn't help him against Mako or another superior airbender.

And Korra and Tenzin are generally portrayed as equals when it comes to evasion:

Stop trying to apply other character's feats to Tenzin. Not only do those basic moves not help but it's sad that you can't prove that the old man has good agility without bending to amp. The gif you posted shows Tenzin doing once what Mako does all the time.

Also, probending evasion =/= airbending evasion. Remember how in Korra's first game, she (and Mako and Bolin) were wrecked, but Korra then incorporated airbending movements and became untouchable? Now imagine how much better a grandmaster would do.

No. Not only does the arena limit your movement but it's empty, flat and prohibits lots of things, so what ever you tried to say is nonsense. Also Korra's airbending tactics made her untouchable against restrained attacks for one round before she took the same wrecking as the Bros supposedly did in many other games. Again a moot point. Comparing a game with rules to free combat. Fire jets > Airbending

Great! Mako can dodge attacks from probending fodder, and take on teams of them. Tenzin can take on RL members (who even holding back are hilariously above probending fodder). And dodging point attacks is quite different from dodging AOE, you don't need much movement to dodge a basic fireblast, but Tenzin's attacks are much harder to dodge.

The Red Lotus against Tenzin weren't above probenders in the least bit and Tenzin was getting hounded by those, both the RL and PB used the same sized attacks but PB moved faster. Tenzin's attacks aren't large or hard to dodge but show me Tenzin dodging bending attacks that weren't from Zaheer or reluctant opponents.

Bobbing and weaving isn't going to work on attacks as large as he is or larger. Tenzin's not slow at all

Really? Worked with Ming Hua who's more aggressive than Tenzin with larger attacks. Btw his attacks are torso sized. This is body sized and Tenzin can't dodge this:

The force sent them flying. Show me Tenzin doing or blocking anything on this scale with no recoil
The force sent them flying. Show me Tenzin doing or blocking anything on this scale with no recoil

Mako's firebending is good enough to beat him. As much as you attempt to lowball a Book 1 Mako who wasn't even as good as he is now, you can't defend Tenzin who's been rocking tattoos for decades, good for him that he hit some weared down fodder.

Physical Abilities:

The fact that the RL wasn't trying to kill him and was holding back doesn't make their attacks weak. Ming Hua one shotted Mako while holding back, and tanking rocks pulverizing on your face and indirect combustion blasts is still very good.

Ming Hua was not holding back but what a failure of an attempt. Her attacks were shattering rocks and were body sized, she took joy in trying to down him whereas with the old man she just wanted him down. Mako still performed well and showcased his agility:

His bobbing and weaving got him through this fight even with hindered bending. Tenzin doesn't have a thing to do
His bobbing and weaving got him through this fight even with hindered bending. Tenzin doesn't have a thing to do

Proof bloodbending drains you? Katara, Aang, and Sokka all recovered nigh-instantly after being bloodbent.

Tf? You blind now? Amon is better than Hama. Watch Book 1 and there's your proof. Korra was knocked out after he took her bending and Mako was stumbling after being released.

Amon ragdolling Mako into metal hallways repeatedly while he was already tired is more effective than anything Tenzin could do. Mako has already taken airbending too many times for it to harm him now.

The mech that Mako faced wasn't slow at all and he was still moving without bending. Mako is superior to both and has the agility to keep up with airbenders as slippery as Kai, who is on Zaheer's level of agility:

Leaps 10 feet in the air
Leaps 10 feet in the air

Speed and Agility:

Amon and Unalaq did not react to those airbending attacks and they could not. Placing your hands foward is not reacting or effective and makes no difference.

He ran away for a grand total of 20 seconds. That was the entire battle, but only because he got stomped. None of his agility showings remotely compare to Tenzin scaling the air temple.

That's laughable, Mako can literally propel himself multiple stories into the air.

Scales atleast 8 stories in 3 seconds, Tenzin has no feat that compares
Scales atleast 8 stories in 3 seconds, Tenzin has no feat that compares

He tagged him mid-air. That's a good counter if Mako decides to use firejets for some reason. Also, Tenzin isn't going to be the one running in this fight.

Ridiculous...He tagged someone who was jumping with his back turned. Mako won't be running, it'll be the other way around. This comparison is faulty anyway because Tenzin tagging someone who is jetting through the air at his speeds is unbelievable but you then need to prove that he can even interrupt Mako's propulsion anyway.

Durability:

P'li and the rest of the Red Lotus wanted him alive so why did you even bother to post all that? She was firing near Tenzin and drastically decreasing the size of her blasts, agsinst the Beifongs she was trying to kill them. Anyways Tenzin has never taken a real direct hit like I have said many times, and Mako replicate the blasts with his fire or lightning. Her curved blasts aren't weaker lol.

Mako is still more durable. Along with tanking airbending everytime and the bloodbending ragdoll he has been electrocuted by mechs that have 1 shotted others:

Also gets hit by the blunt force of the grapple
Also gets hit by the blunt force of the grapple

Notice how he gets hit and begins to be electrified, and he isn't even in the lightning redirection form. Meaning he took the first few seconds of electrocution with his massive durability. Tenzin has been one shotted in the past by this. Mako has always tanked airbending with his durability:

Gets slammed by a door with the force of an airblast
Gets slammed by a door with the force of an airblast

This is the same guy with enough airbending power to completely trash an entire task force of metalbending officers in heavy armor. Mako has tanked three point blank explosions, on top this.

Firebending and Lightningbending:

Mako's attacks can't be fodderized and they are powerful enough to keep Tenzin off balance then destroy him.

Even his smallest blasts had the explosive capacity to do this. Same size as the attacks Tenzin got blasted by
Even his smallest blasts had the explosive capacity to do this. Same size as the attacks Tenzin got blasted by
I doubt Tenzin can handle multiple of the smaller blasts that
I doubt Tenzin can handle multiple of the smaller blasts that

He was more than willing to attack the soldiers during a worldly crisis so he'd be sure to use them if needed. If not the explosives his regular firebending would still have the force of one.

Even if I assume Mako's lightning is faster than Azula's (which there is precisely 0 evidence for), that doesn't change much. Amon dodged AFTER Mako fired, Mako didn't miss, so that was pure speed on Amon's part. The fact that only Amon has dodged it is also irrelevant when you consider that the only other non fodder opponent Mako used it on was Ming Hua, in a situation where she had no chance of escape. If Amon can dodge it, then Tenzin with his at least equal speed should be able to do the same.

Azula's lightning is not as fast as Mako's nor does she use it the same as Mako. You made this baseless assumption so the burden of proof is on you to prove. Amon dodged that because he messes with a benders aim with his psychic bending. Amon is also faster than Tenzin on foot.

Doesn't matter how accurate he is, since Tenzin can react after he fires. Also, you have yet to provide proof that Azula's lightning is slower than Mako's. Until you do, that is speculation. Like I just said, he didn't miss against Amon, Amon dodged.

You made the claim, you have to prove it. Literally no proof of that even being the case, Mako's lightning travels instantly at times and can not be dodged at close range unlike Azula's.

Tags a moving target in an instant
Tags a moving target in an instant
Takes a total of 3 seconds to reach a stationary Amon
Takes a total of 3 seconds to reach a stationary Amon

The 2nd was louder, larger, and slower, even alerting Amon. I argue PIS, this bolt was different from of Mako's other's. Tenzin won't dodge any of regular bolts and can't defend against them.

Attacking your "advantages":

It was only five over short period of time up there, now it's six in a second? Zaheer's matched that and has better consistent speed, as well as outspeeding Mako directly, and yet Tenzin still spanked him.

No Zaheer hasn't. He's fast but not on Mako's level. His attacks are spaced out while Mako rapidly fires his.

You mean he tanked a single, potentially weaker explosion in one of the only times he wasn't one-shotted.

No his explosion was stronger.

His agility is below Tenzin's unamped agility, and way below Tenzin's amped agility.

Nope.

He doesn't need his absolute highest end power moves to beat Mako. Mako, on the other hand, needs his absolute best and rather OOC moves (lightning and explosions) to even have a ghost of a chance (he'd still lose).

Tenzin will need to be at his best to fight Mako. He will need to stay moving and stay cautious and preserve his strength because Mako's raw power and speed could end his chance at victory if he slips up once.

Against Amon he was just trying to knock him away so they could escape. Also, Amon's durability is extremely good, so not one shotting him isn't a low showing:

As irrelevant as alot of the things you said were, Amon obviously was still standing because the fire didn't reach him. You think he has sime magical density that prevents him from being moved unless it's airbending? Last I checked he didn't.

Yes, Tenzin's most used attacks are casual airblasts. However, those blasts still hit hard enough to put Mako on his knees, and are larger than Mako is prepared to deal with.

Anyways, the only specific move (that isn't generalized air blasts or agility) in my strategy is his air attack that KOed the RL, which you'd know if you'd bothered to counter my strategy.

They won't, Mako can't be oneshotted with airblasts or with casual attacks in general.

He did not KO the Red Lotus he merely dazed them for 3 seconds with a cheap shot. Quit lying and over hyping that. Mako has eaten worse damage than that from multiple explosions and blunt force.

Okay then. Since you didn't bother countering my strategy, I'll reiterate the basics right here: anti-RL air attack GG. You still haven't posted a counter. As it is, I've already countered everything in this strategy elsewhere.

What are you talking about? I did in my first post and I did now. Tenzin can't tag Mako while he's in the middle of jet propulsion as he is too fast, in any instance that he somehow does he couldn't KO or interrupt him. You still have not shown if Tenzin can even tag or faze Mako, the same Mako who evades attacks way faster than slow airblasts and beats on Ming Hua.

Bending Feats

Just some feats I feel should be highlighted that'll come in handy against Tenzin.

Book 1 Mako defends against 3 elements, only causing a medium sized explosion that he tanks and then goes on to keep fighting
Book 1 Mako defends against 3 elements, only causing a medium sized explosion that he tanks and then goes on to keep fighting
One handed giant fire jet that propels half of a plane. Translate that into attack.
One handed giant fire jet that propels half of a plane. Translate that into attack.
No Caption Provided

With a mere wave a large fire wall flares up from the ground, concealing Mako while blinding the pursuers, it dwindles in size but continues to burn after Mako stops bending it. Terrain control and makes for a great ninja vanish to pull off charged lightning

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#20 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
Pictured: Tenzin looking at your post.
Pictured: Tenzin looking at your post.

Counters

Defending My Counters To Your Foreword

Don't know why you bothered to counter my foreword

Because you were posting opinions and half-truths as facts.

So what you think Mako isn't the best firebender

He isn't by feats. P'li > Mako in terms firebending, an argument could be made for Korra as well (maybe a CaV for another time).

foolishly believe he got stomped by Ming Hua

What else would you call getting one-shotted after running away for twenty seconds?

Speaking of Ming, she was not effected by AS Korra in the finale, she just took a nap before facing Mako,

Pictured: Ming Hua taking a nap and remaining unaffected by AS Korra.
Pictured: Ming Hua taking a nap and remaining unaffected by AS Korra.

if she was incapable of fighting she wouldn't have attacked him or been able to go octopus form which takes alot of focus and water.

She didn't really have a choice about fighting him... Ghazan certainly couldn't have taken them solo. And being able to go octo-form doesn't mean she wasn't hindered, just that she wasn't hindered enough or in some way that would stop her from doing that.

Defending My Counters to Firebending

Tenzin has no experience with firebending. Just because he's seen them in action it doesn't mean that he is equipped to handle one.

Those two statements contradict each other. He hasn't had an extended 1v1 with a firebender, doesn't mean he can't win a 1v1 with a firebender. He has plenty of experience with them. Mako has no feats of fighting an airbender in a 1v1 either, so this evens out.

Mako has been facing teams of pro benders and Ming Hua, all agile benders that focus on speed primarily just like an airbender.

Pro-benders are glorified fodder, and his only good showing against Ming was against a severely hindered version (recently KOed and lacking water). Zaheer focuses on aggression and offense like a firebender, didn't help him at all against Tenzin.

He's also a firebender so the battle will be he's any way, Tenzin won't be the aggressor, as stupid and out of character that would be.

Did you just say Mako would win because he's a firebender? Because that's honestly ridiculous. Does Lightning Bolt Zolt beat King Bumi now? Tenzin is less inclined to hold back than his dad, and he's perfectly willing to attack first:

Pictured: Tenzin acting stupid and out of character.
Pictured: Tenzin acting stupid and out of character.

No he won't.

Prove it.

Mako is a master. He can lightningbend and your own words just contradicted your statement, what happen to him being the best lightningbender in the series? Also Zhao is a master, food for thought.

Master is a vague and largely meaningless term. I was simply pointing out that Tenzin is considered a master in-verse whereas Mako is not.

Okay, I disagree but Zaheer did none of that against Tenzin and what difference would it have made when Zaheer was running away with his back turned most of the fight. His agility wouldn't help him against Mako or another superior airbender.

Zaheer did use his agility in his fight with Tenzin:

Dodging out Tenzin.
Dodging out Tenzin.
Scaling the Northern Air Temple.
Scaling the Northern Air Temple.

It's just that Tenzin was able to keep up with everything Zaheer could do. You've yet to explain why his agility (which lets him set up shots on Mako, dodge Mako's attacks, and control the range of the fight) won't help against Mako.

Stop trying to apply other character's feats to Tenzin. Not only do those basic moves not help but it's sad that you can't prove that the old man has good agility without bending to amp. The gif you posted shows Tenzin doing once what Mako does all the time.

I'm trying to show that he's physically portrayed to be on Korra or Zaheer's level agility wise, assuming no bending. If you want a good feat for Tenzin himself, here's an excellent one:

Dodging through several Equalist sneak attacks without even looking. Also better than Mako's feats.
Dodging through several Equalist sneak attacks without even looking. Also better than Mako's feats.

No. Not only does the arena limit your movement but it's empty, flat and prohibits lots of things, so what ever you tried to say is nonsense. Also Korra's airbending tactics made her untouchable against restrained attacks for one round before she took the same wrecking as the Bros supposedly did in many other games.Again a moot point. Comparing a game with rules to free combat. Fire jets > Airbending

You're the one comparing pro-bending to airbending, I just showed how different they are. Also, considering how much you hyped up Mako's pro-bending skills in your opener, I'm glad you admitted it's not as good as unrestrained combat. Firejets are good at one thing, and one thing only; travel speed. Not dodging, which is equally important.

The Red Lotus against Tenzin weren't above probenders in the least bit and Tenzin was getting hounded by those, both the RL and PB used the same sized attacks but PB moved faster. Tenzin's attacks aren't large or hard to dodge but show me Tenzin dodging bending attacks that weren't from Zaheer or reluctant opponents.

Yes they were above probenders, Zaheer was using airblades and Ming was spamming ice projectiles. The fight didn't last long thanks to P'li, so we didn't see more. Tenzin's attacks are large and hard to dodge:

Mako couldn't touch Amon, Tenzin was the first person to do it all season.
Mako couldn't touch Amon, Tenzin was the first person to do it all season.

I mean, Tenzin's only real fight against other benders was against the RL, but I've shown him dodging plenty of attack from mecha-tanks, equalists, and the RL.

Really? Worked with Ming Hua who's more aggressive than Tenzin with larger attacks. Btw his attacks are torso sized. This is body sized and Tenzin can't dodge this:

Ming didn't use larger attacks against Mako, her attacks were water arm sized, nothing more, nothing less. Second, it didn't work against an unrestricted Ming Hua:

Pictured: Bobbing and weaving being effective.
Pictured: Bobbing and weaving being effective.

Tenzin will just block that attack, like he blocked P'li's blast.

The force sent them flying. Show me Tenzin doing or blocking anything on this scale with no recoil

I've shown him doing things on that scale a whole bunch of times, but since you asked so nicely:

This is well above body size, and sent three FAR superior opponents flying much further.
This is well above body size, and sent three FAR superior opponents flying much further.

Still no proof Mako's firebending will be more than an annoyance to Tenzin.

Defending the Counters to Physical Abilities

Ming Hua was not holding back but what a failure of an attempt. Her attacks were shattering rocks and were body sized, she took joy in trying to down him whereas with the old man she just wanted him down. Mako still performed well and showcased his agility:

Her attacks were breaking the ground, but they were not body-sized. The AOE was only as large as the end of her arm. Yeah, she was playing around with Mako whereas she wanted to KO Tenzin. Mako got his *ss kicked by Ming.

His bobbing and weaving got him through this fight even with hindered bending. Tenzin doesn't have a thing to do

If by "got him through the fight" you mean "got him stomped in twenty seconds flat" you'd be right.

Tf? You blind now? Amon is better than Hama. Watch Book 1 and there's your proof. Korra was knocked out after he took her bending and Mako was stumbling after being released.

If you'll remember, he took Korra's bending, all he did was restrain Mako.

Amon ragdolling Mako into metal hallways repeatedly while he was already tired is more effective than anything Tenzin could do. Mako has already taken airbending too many times for it to harm him now.

He threw him a few feet a few times. That's not even close to what I showed Tenzin doing to the RL or Equalist fodder. The second argument is honestly laughable, Mako hasn't tanked anything on the level of what Tenzin can dish out in regards to airbending.

The mech that Mako faced wasn't slow at all and he was still moving without bending. Mako is superior to both and has the agility to keep up with airbenders as slippery as

Compared to Tenzin, it may as well be slow-mo. The fact that he wasn't using his bending doesn't really matter, as fire doesn't proved the passive movement enhancement boosts air does. He kept up with an 11 year old newbie airbender who eventually outsmarted and BFR'd him, how impressive.

Kai, who is on Zaheer's level of agility:

No Caption Provided

Leaps 10 feet in the air

He pushed off the wall, he didn't leap straight up. Zaheer did the exact same thing, except over a much larger distance, when scaling the air temple:

You can see it when he's jumping on to the first cottage.
You can see it when he's jumping on to the first cottage.

Defending My Counters to Speed and Agility

Amon and Unalaq did not react to those airbending attacks and they could not. Placing your hands foward is not reacting or effective and makes no difference.

They clearly reacted, they braced themselves for impact.

Scales atleast 8 stories in 3 seconds, Tenzin has no feat that compares

Not really:

The airspout towers over the building.
The airspout towers over the building.
Pops up the side of the NAT in one smooth movement.
Pops up the side of the NAT in one smooth movement.

Furthermore, that's just travel speed. You still haven't shown him matching anything else Tenzin's got.

Ridiculous...He tagged someone who was jumping with his back turned. Mako won't be running, it'll be the other way around. This comparison is faulty anyway because Tenzin tagging someone who is jetting through the air at his speeds is unbelievable but you then need to prove that he can even interrupt Mako's propulsion anyway.

If you're saying that it's irrelevant because Mako won't run or use firejets, then OK. I already showed him tagging someone mid-air, do you have feats suggesting Mako can maintain his firejets despite being tagged?

Defending My Counters to Speed and Durability

P'li and the rest of the Red Lotus wanted him alive so why did you even bother to post all that? She was firing near Tenzin and drastically decreasing the size of her blasts, agsinst the Beifongs she was trying to kill them. Anyways Tenzin has never taken a real direct hit like I have said many times, and Mako replicate the blasts with his fire or lightning. Her curved blasts aren't weaker lol.

Her blasts against Tenzin were bigger than her curved shots against the Beifongs. If they aren't weaker, post some feats for them matching the ones her straight blasts have shown.

Mako is still more durable. Along with tanking airbending everytime and the bloodbending ragdoll he has been electrocuted by mechs that have 1 shotted others:

Also gets hit by the blunt force of the grapple
Also gets hit by the blunt force of the grapple

Notice how he gets hit and begins to be electrified, and he isn't even in the lightning redirection form. Meaning he took the first few seconds of electrocution with his massive durability. Tenzin has been one shotted in the past by this.

I think he was starting to redirect even when getting electrocuted. He's a skilled enough lightningbender that he could conceivably start it stanceless. At least, that seems more consistent to me considering how he's been one shotted by the Lieutenant multiple times:

Why not tank this with his massive durability?
Why not tank this with his massive durability?
Or this?
Or this?

Furthermore, if he was so massively durable, why does he get one shotted so much by master benders?

Here's Unalaq doing it, and I've already showed Ming doing it.
Here's Unalaq doing it, and I've already showed Ming doing it.

Mako has always tanked airbending with his durability:

Gets slammed by a door with the force of an airblast
Gets slammed by a door with the force of an airblast

This is the same guy with enough airbending power to completely trash an entire task force of metalbending officers in heavy armor. Mako has tanked three point blank explosions, on top this.

Seriously? Tanking a blast from a fodder airbender who didn't even try to hurt him is supposed to be impressive?

Defending the Counters to Firebending

Even his smallest blasts had the explosive capacity to do this. Same size as the attacks Tenzin got blasted by

Size =/= potency. And I was referring to his basic attacks.

He was more than willing to attack the soldiers during a worldly crisis so he'd be sure to use them if needed.

He used them once, with the fate of the world on the line. He didn't use them in any other engagements, it'll be far too late by the time he decides to use them here.

If not the explosives his regular firebending would still have the force of one.

Proof? Or all of Tenzin's blasts have the AOE and power of his airspout, if we're just compositing different moves together.

Defending the Counters to Lightning

Azula's lightning is not as fast as Mako's nor does she use it the same as Mako. You made this baseless assumption so the burden of proof is on you to prove. Amon dodged that because he messes with a benders aim with his psychic bending. Amon is also faster than Tenzin on foot.

No, you made the claim that they're different. The null hypothesis is that they're the same, speedwise. Your claim, your proof. Amon dodged AFTER MAKO FIRED. Whether or not he was messing with Mako's aim is IRRELEVANT, considering he had the speed to dodge it anyways:

Again, Amon dodges well after the bolt is fired.
Again, Amon dodges well after the bolt is fired.

You made the claim, you have to prove it. Literally no proof of that even being the case, Mako's lightning travels instantly at times and can not be dodged at close range unlike Azula's.

The null is that they're the same speed. Come up with proof, or don't try and claim they're not. Part of the reason Azula's enemies dodge her lightning so much is that they're much more significant than the people Mako shoots at. Mako hasn't tagged anyone significant with lightning without context (surprising Amon and Ming Hua being in a pool of water).

The 2nd was louder, larger, and slower, even alerting Amon. I argue PIS, this bolt was different from of Mako's other's. Tenzin won't dodge any of regular bolts and can't defend against them.

That doesn't mean it's PIS, it just means that not all of Mako's lightning bolts are the same. Besides, the one against the motorcycle had charging time. As of now, Tenzin is still as fast as people who've reacted to Mako's lightning and much faster than people who've reacted to Azula's.

Defending My Advantages and Strategy

No Zaheer hasn't. He's fast but not on Mako's level. His attacks are spaced out while Mako rapidly fires his.

Did you not see the part where the camera switches to Tonraq and there are no gaps?

No his explosion was stronger.

Proof? The evidence suggests otherwise.

Tenzin will need to be at his best to fight Mako. He will need to stay moving and stay cautious and preserve his strength because Mako's raw power and speed could end his chance at victory if he slips up once.

Since Tenzin is both faster and more powerful than Mako, I find this rather unlikely.

As irrelevant as alot of the things you said were, Amon obviously was still standing because the fire didn't reach him. You think he has sime magical density that prevents him from being moved unless it's airbending? Last I checked he didn't.

What? You can see the flame reaching him, and it sent Equalists much further from the blast flying. Magical density, no, bracing against impact, yes.

They won't, Mako can't be oneshotted with airblasts or with casual attacks in general.

Why not? His stronger ones one-shotted tougher people. Unalaq one-shotted Mako with a casual attack.

He did not KO the Red Lotus he merely dazed them for 3 seconds with a cheap shot. Quit lying and over hyping that. Mako has eaten worse damage than that from multiple explosions and blunt force.

He KOed them for 12 seconds. Mako is less durable than Zaheer or Ming Hua by feats, so over hyping his few decent showings and taking them out of context isn't going to help your case.

What are you talking about? I did in my first post and I did now. Tenzin can't tag Mako while he's in the middle of jet propulsion as he is too fast,

Proof? I don't believe anyone's tried doing that, and if they did, I doubt they had Tenzin's feat of hitting Zaheer mid-jump.

in any instance that he somehow does he couldn't KO or interrupt him.

Disproved above.

You still have not shown if Tenzin can even tag or faze Mako, the

I've shown him tagging and KOing people faster, more agile, and more durable than Mako (Amon, Ming Hua, and Zaheer).

same Mako who evades attacks way faster than slow airblasts and beats on Ming Hua.

Correction: The same Mako who can't react to Zaheer and gets his *ss beat by Ming Hua.

Here's my strategy again, copied and pasted from my opener. Feel free to try and rebut it in your finisher:

"Tenzin's strategy is fairly simple. As soon as the fight starts, he's going to use the AOE move he used against the RL. As I showed above, it one shot people significantly tougher than Mako, and two people faster than Mako were completely unable to react to it. Mako has neither the speed to react to it, the moveset to counter it, or the durability to tank it, basically making the fight over in one move. This is also IC for him, as he used this move to start off his fight against the RL. If he somehow survives that move, Tenzin will simply use all of his advantages to keep tagging Mako until he goes down, which shouldn't take all that long, especially if you consider how casually he smacked Zaheer (who is faster, more agile, and can actually block Tenzin's attacks, unlike Mako) around. Tenzin is going to take this fight every time."

@huskii My finisher is up, post yours and I'll open this for votes.

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#21 Posted by Tektonic (545 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Tektonic (545 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by Tektonic (545 posts) - - Show Bio

@huskii said:

@tektonic: Aha eager for more? I'll post, I've just been busy lately. Right now I'm in school but I'll attempt to post when I get home. If I don't finish that night then I'll be done by tommorow noon.

Alrighty.

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#26 Posted by Huskii (395 posts) - - Show Bio

Time to end this.
Time to end this.

Response

Defending my foreword:

She didn't really have a choice about fighting him... Ghazan certainly couldn't have taken them solo. And being able to go octo-form doesn't mean she wasn't hindered, just that she wasn't hindered enough or in some way that would stop her from doing that.

Fact is, Korra didn't hinder Ming in any way shape or form, you are making it up or making redundant assumptions. She was fighting like her normal self and had enough strength to conjure up her most advanced waterbending feat.

Firebending:

Those two statements contradict each other. He hasn't had an extended 1v1 with a firebender, doesn't mean he can't win a 1v1 with a firebender. He has plenty of experience with them. Mako has no feats of fighting an airbender in a 1v1 either, so this evens out.

Probending isn't much different than common airbending tactics, both involve staying light on your feet along with lots of evasion. Mako has battled alongside Tenzin too and will be familiar.

Pro-benders are glorified fodder, and his only good showing against Ming was against a severely hindered version (recently KOed and lacking water). Zaheer focuses on aggression and offense like a firebender, didn't help him at all against Tenzin.

Probenders aren't fodder, could fodder actually contend with the likes of Korra or Mako regardless of restrictions? No, you have to a pro bender, hence the name. They are good inside and outside the ring. Ming Hua's was not hindered, he extinguished her water arms because while under the Sun he is more powerful than her. A good waterbender could retain there water and prevent it from being sapped away, like Katara or Unalaq. Zaheer isn't a firebender, he lacks there energy and power and he didn't utilize any sort of aggression towards Tenzin because Tenzin was the aggressor who nullified all of his efforts.

Did you just say Mako would win because he's a firebender? Because that's honestly ridiculous. Does Lightning Bolt Zolt beat King Bumi now? Tenzin is less inclined to hold back than his dad, and he's perfectly willing to attack first:

Mako is more in favor of winning because of his element being stronger and better suited to combat. Zolt very much could going by feats and lore, he's infamous for his abilities, obviously, and he did teach Mako. Too bad Mako is quicker on the draw so he'll attack first and continue to do so.

It's just that Tenzin was able to keep up with everything Zaheer could do. You've yet to explain why his agility (which lets him set up shots on Mako, dodge Mako's attacks, and control the range of the fight) won't help against Mako.

Zaheer's agility allowed him so evade some attacks but in the end did nothing because he could do nothing. Mako won't be the same case. Tenzin's agility will be useless because Mako will straight up overwhelm him, and he also has fire jets that allow for better movement.

Dodging through several Equalist sneak attacks without even looking. Also better than Mako's feats.

He's never portrayed on their level physically. What Tenzin did was basic, dodging some punches and small ropes being thrown. Even Meelo could do that.

You're the one comparing pro-bending to airbending, I just showed how different they are. Also, considering how much you hyped up Mako's pro-bending skills in your opener, I'm glad you admitted it's not as good as unrestrained combat. Firejets are good at one thing, and one thing only; travel speed. Not dodging, which is equally important.

I never said that... Mako's technique is clearly still effective as shown already when he's using unrestrained bending and movement too. His agility would be even better than when in a probending game. Fire jets are great for evasion too.

Yes they were above probenders, Zaheer was using airblades and Ming was spamming ice projectiles. The fight didn't last long thanks to P'li, so we didn't see more. Tenzin's attacks are large and hard to dodge:

No, blades are used in probending all the time and ice is no different from water blasts and Mako has actually evaded real ice spikes from Ming Hua... Tenzin's large attacks like what he did takes too long and Mako could conjure up lightning and shoot him.

Mako can evade continued spam of metal blades while he's restricted in a hindering environment, metalbending being the 2nd fastest means of fire in the Avatarverse.
Mako can evade continued spam of metal blades while he's restricted in a hindering environment, metalbending being the 2nd fastest means of fire in the Avatarverse.

This is far faster than anything Tenzin can dish out or than what the Red Lotus used against him. This soldier was putting in more effort than the Red Lotus.

Mako couldn't touch Amon, Tenzin was the first person to do it all season.

Yippy he thought about using AoE. Something any bender could've used to hit Amon.

Ming didn't use larger attacks against Mako, her attacks were water arm sized, nothing more, nothing less. Second, it didn't work against an unrestricted Ming Hua:

She did, her arms were as thick as Mako's torso. Did you even watch the entire battle, she didn't grab Mako because of a failure in his technique, she got hold of him by overpowering his fireblast and freezing his hand.

Tenzin will just block that attack, like he blocked P'li's blast.

He barely deflected attacks from P'li and had trouble with all of them.

Physical Capabilities:

He threw him a few feet a few times. That's not even close to what I showed Tenzin doing to the RL or Equalist fodder. The second argument is honestly laughable, Mako hasn't tanked anything on the level of what Tenzin can dish out in regards to airbending.

Okay the distance doesn't effect anything and he waa still being slammed into metal. Mako has tanked literally everything. The explosion from P'li alone.

Compared to Tenzin, it may as well be slow-mo. The fact that he wasn't using his bending doesn't really matter, as fire doesn't proved the passive movement enhancement boosts air does. He kept up with an 11 year old newbie airbender who eventually outsmarted and BFR'd him, how impressive.

Newbie or not his agility was airbender level, but nice stupid irrelevant lowballing. All Kai did was sucker blast Mako when he wasn't expecting it from point blank. He still tanked it.

He pushed off the wall, he didn't leap straight up. Zaheer did the exact same thing, except over a much larger distance, when scaling the air temple:

Still impressive and Mako has fire jets for a reason, he would surpass Zaheer's wall jumping.

Speed and Agility:

They clearly reacted, they braced themselves for impact.

No. They covered they're faces then got blasted away, the so called bracing offering no type of protection. Mako's reacted to Ming Hua in a similar instance and her attacks travel faster than Zaheer's:

No Caption Provided

The airspout towers over the building.

That was not towering. Mako's agilty is still greater. He can scale stories and propel himself at amazing speeds.

Furthermore, that's just travel speed. You still haven't shown him matching anything else Tenzin's got.

Flies above buildings then stays airborne for 6 seconds...and that's with the weight of a bike
Flies above buildings then stays airborne for 6 seconds...and that's with the weight of a bike

Mako's agility allows him to reach higher heights, move faster, and run across walls. He surpasses Tenzin.

If you're saying that it's irrelevant because Mako won't run or use firejets, then OK. I already showed him tagging someone mid-air, do you have feats suggesting Mako can maintain his firejets despite being tagged?

Mako can't run away and he will use his jet propulsion. You showed hin tagging an inferior fleeing target while his back was turned, ONCE. Mako is faster than Zaheer and can actually fly, not only that he can attack. I don't need any, it's common sense he can and if so he would reactivate them.

Agility and Durability:

Her blasts against Tenzin were bigger than her curved shots against the Beifongs. If they aren't weaker, post some feats for them matching the ones her straight blasts have shown.

No they weren't. And Tenzin was still struggling against them. I don't need to show feats because it's obviously weaker. Your Tenzin vs P'li CaV goes over this.

I think he was starting to redirect even when getting electrocuted. He's a skilled enough lightningbender that he could conceivably start it stanceless. At least, that seems more consistent to me considering how he's been one shotted by the Lieutenant multiple times:

That's impossible, he got used to the voltage and can now no show it. The finale of LoK shows off his outstanding durability and electric resistance.

Furthermore, if he was so massively durable, why does he get one shotted so much by master benders?

He doesn't. Unalaq didn't 1 shot him there. And his battle with Ming-Hua wasn't entirely shown onscreen, she was knocking him around before she slammed him into a door.

Seriously? Tanking a blast from a fodder airbender who didn't even try to hurt him is supposed to be impressive?

Fodder or not he has raw power and the door made the attack even worse. Mako has also taken a hit from Korra who has naturally aggressive and large airbending:

Directly in front of an attack aimed for Amon, taking the blunt of it, and this is after being ragdolled badly
Directly in front of an attack aimed for Amon, taking the blunt of it, and this is after being ragdolled badly

Firebending:

He used them once, with the fate of the world on the line. He didn't use them in any other engagements, it'll be far too late by the time he decides to use them here.

Are you kidding me? The Red Lotus were a threat to Korra, that's the equivalent to Mako's mindset during the book 2 finale. Mako will have plenty of time to throw in some explosive blasts to defeat Tenzin.

His range and power within his fire will still prove to be a problem for Tenzin:

Notice how the blast force is creating such massive geysers in the water and he's right on Amon's trail, a true feat of speed
Notice how the blast force is creating such massive geysers in the water and he's right on Amon's trail, a true feat of speed

Proof? Or all of Tenzin's blasts have the AOE and power of his airspout, if we're just compositing different moves together.

Look at above gif

Lightningbending:

No, you made the claim that they're different. The null hypothesis is that they're the same, speedwise. Your claim, your proof. Amon dodged AFTER MAKO FIRED. Whether or not he was messing with Mako's aim is IRRELEVANT, considering he had the speed to dodge it anyways:

Prove that Azula's lightning us the same speed, she's inferior to Mako when it comes to lightning. Anyways Amon is faster than Tenzin, I've told you before to stop trying to apply another character's feats to Tenzin, especially one who can bend another's aim off just so slightly that they believe they missed.

The null is that they're the same speed. Come up with proof, or don't try and claim they're not. Part of the reason Azula's enemies dodge her lightning so much is that they're much more significant than the people Mako shoots at. Mako hasn't tagged anyone significant with lightning without context (surprising Amon and Ming Hua being in a pool of water).

Prove it. He's tagged a speeding bike, Amon, and spirits. If not for plot convience he would have electrocuted Unalaq in the finale. He could've ended Ming Hua back at Zaofu, he connects with her arms in every battle. Mako without a shadow of a doubt has the accuracy to land a bolt at any moment. Both Mako and Azula have used lightning at close range, Azula's is so slow that it's casually side stepped and can barely harm, Mako's is instant and undodgeable at such close range:

Amon doesn't even have time to react to this, had Mako had his free will and strength he would have pulled this quicker and defeated Amon
Amon doesn't even have time to react to this, had Mako had his free will and strength he would have pulled this quicker and defeated Amon

That doesn't mean it's PIS, it just means that not all of Mako's lightning bolts are the same. Besides, the one against the motorcycle had charging time. As of now, Tenzin is still as fast as people who've reacted to Mako's lightning and much faster than people who've reacted to Azula's.

Mako made a gesture but the bolt was not charged, charging is what Mako did in the finale, and it visually has electric sparks and thunder crackles. Tenzin has no feats of dodging lightning from Mako, he won't even be prepared for it once Mako pulls it.

Your "Advantages":

Did you not see the part where the camera switches to Tonraq and there are no gaps?

Since Tenzin is both faster and more powerful than Mako, I find this rather unlikely.

Why not? His stronger ones one-shotted tougher people. Unalaq one-shotted Mako with a casual attack.

He KOed them for 12 seconds. Mako is less durable than Zaheer or Ming Hua by feats, so over hyping his few decent showings and taking them out of context isn't going to help your case.

Proof? I don't believe anyone's tried doing that, and if they did, I doubt they had Tenzin's feat of hitting Zaheer mid-jump.

I've shown him tagging and KOing people faster, more agile, and more durable than Mako (Amon, Ming Hua, and Zaheer).

Correction: The same Mako who can't react to Zaheer and gets his *ss beat by Ming Hua.

  • I did and it's not as fast as what Mako does. You also must be blind because Zaheer did not attack like that against Tenzin
  • He isn't faster, I've shown this, physically and with bending. Lol at him being more powerful
  • Unalaq did not one shot Mako
  • Zaheer and Ming Hua have no durability feats
  • Tenzin hit Zaheer with his back turned, that's not impressive
  • He's only tagged Ming Hua once due to a surprise attack and Zaheer because he's the superior airbender and had him spooked, Amon was simple and easily replicated with AoE
  • You make no sense. So because Mako didn't raise his hands for absolutely no reason he has bad reaction? Lol no and he still tanked that weak hit. Ming only bested him at night

"Tenzin's strategy is fairly simple. As soon as the fight starts, he's going to use the AOE move he used against the RL. As I showed above, it one shot people significantly tougher than Mako, and two people faster than Mako were completely unable to react to it. Mako has neither the speed to react to it, the moveset to counter it, or the durability to tank it, basically making the fight over in one move. This is also IC for him, as he used this move to start off his fight against the RL. If he somehow survives that move, Tenzin will simply use all of his advantages to keep tagging Mako until he goes down, which shouldn't take all that long, especially if you consider how casually he smacked Zaheer (who is faster, more agile, and can actually block Tenzin's attacks, unlike Mako) around. Tenzin is going to take this fight every time."

The problem with this is that they start 20 feet apart and Tenzin only managed to pull that AoE move off while the RL were directly 5 feet in front of him, unsuspecting, and only managed to daze benders weaker than Mako like the frail Ming Hua. This strategy is absurd and isn't even a strategy. The fact that you think Tenzin pulls a win like this is funny.

Why Mako Wins/Game Plan

Mako's Damage Soak

According to your strategy Tenzin will win by simply pulling off an AoE one shot that he's incapable of pulling off in the first place from a 20 foot gap, the thing os, Mako is way more durable than the RL individually and has endured explosions with more hugh blast forces, ragdolling from Amon, and airbending from powerful benders like Korra. Here are some high end showings that further prove Mako can take some weak hits.

A powerful, heated point blank shockwave hurls him into a metal wall and causes his own lightning to nip at him. This is the second time too, earlier against a guard he got blasted and continued to fight.
A powerful, heated point blank shockwave hurls him into a metal wall and causes his own lightning to nip at him. This is the second time too, earlier against a guard he got blasted and continued to fight.
A shockwave coupled with an electrical burn repels him back, he pushes through, still giving it his all
A shockwave coupled with an electrical burn repels him back, he pushes through, still giving it his all

Self explanatory. Tenzin attempted to shield himself ftom a similar blast and came out burned and bruised:
Self explanatory. Tenzin attempted to shield himself ftom a similar blast and came out burned and bruised:
No Caption Provided

With his inferior ability to take damage he'll fall victim to Mako's fire quickly

Mako's Superior Agility

Can flip around Unalaq's attacks
Can flip around Unalaq's attacks
Can avoid attacks in rapid succession
Can avoid attacks in rapid succession

No Caption Provided
Kept ahead of Ming Hua and skillfully attacks in openings at a moments notice
Kept ahead of Ming Hua and skillfully attacks in openings at a moments notice

Jet Propulsion and Superior Arial Opponent

When it comes down to bending, Mako is the more powerful combatant and has the more useful means of an agility booster. Not only is he faster and can soar to heights Tenzin can not reach, he can attack from the air. Mako will be bringing the heat grounded and while airborne.

Jets towards Ghazan while feet above him and impressively overpowerd his shield
Jets towards Ghazan while feet above him and impressively overpowerd his shield
Mako is basically hovering in the air while firing down a fire stream, easily passing Tenzin's best airbending scale
Mako is basically hovering in the air while firing down a fire stream, easily passing Tenzin's best airbending scale

You say Tenzin can tag Zaheer while he's running away so therefore he can tag Mako, who he is faster and more nimble while in the air and can and will be attacking? Mako's too fast and can fly out of range:

Stories above ground where his superior range will come into play...
Stories above ground where his superior range will come into play...
No Caption Provided

This along with his fire missiles against Amon, he'll decimate Tenzin. Mako will be serious and won't hesitate to resort to more extreme means, flying out of Tenzin's range to a building top and making it rain fire. Tenzin can't touch Makonif he doesn't even have the ability to reach him.

Mako's Hat Trick

Mako will instantly zap Tenzin the second the opening presents itself after beating on him for a while, Tenzin won't know when it'll come and he won't be able to stop it with air, Mako will either be up close for a clean 1 shot or far away spamming bolts, or simply stream a bolt and have it follow him. Given the location, Mako could pull off a charged bolt 10/10 if he just distances himself with jet propulsion and fire waves.

Instant bolt generated with no gestures and streamed for 7 seconds. Mako could easily land a hit on Tenzin
Instant bolt generated with no gestures and streamed for 7 seconds. Mako could easily land a hit on Tenzin
Charged dual lightning stream
Charged dual lightning stream

For the overkill curbstomp Mako gets charged up and hoses two lightning bolts after Tenzin, trailing him, the only thing Tenzin could do is value his last second of life

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#28 Edited by lvenger (32482 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll vote on this ASAP.

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#29 Posted by DeathHero61 (15157 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll give it to Huskii, I wanted to give it to Mial42 at first, but he lowballed Mako so much, and dismissed his feats waay too easily. Calling Pro Benders fodder is silly IMO. They are pros for a reason. That's like calling the Dai Li fodder. For example, Korra herself while restricted on the rules of Pro Bending was getting her ass kicked by other pro benders despite being a master water bender. Pro Bending clearly has it's own style of combat and it has its uses. In fact Pro Bending uses a rapid fire technique and an evasive technique similar to that of an airbender, which is a lot more useful than the traditional bending that Tenzin uses. Huskii didn't lowball Tenzin but he did highball the hell out of Mako. Claiming he's faster than Azula, and making it sound like Mako would stomp Tenzin when it's quite the opposite.

Huskii, although in his own little world, had more realistic and fair counters as far as I could tell. Mial said Mako wouldn't use his high-end attacks in character. But the same applies far more to Tenzin. Give me at least two or three scenes of Tenzin using AOE exactly on par with what he's used against the Red Lotus.

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#30 Edited by Marishtar (568 posts) - - Show Bio

@huskii: @mial42: Hmmm there was a lot of pretty questionable stuff on both sides(that Mako don't uses explosive blasts in character on mials side, or that Makos lightning would be faster than Azulas on huskiis side for example).

Just ignoring that on both sides convinced mial me more, huskii worked too much with assumptions and vague examples in my opinion(to be fair i think mial has probably more experience with CAVs, and huskii was still not bad). So i give my vote mial.

Good CAV, but next time maybe with a bit less high and lowballing on both sides :)

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#31 Posted by Huskii (395 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: Thanks for the vote and detailed feedback. Though I never claimed Mako was faster than Azula, I said his lightning traveled faster which is true.

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#32 Posted by GuildSeal (237 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @mial42.

I found his arguments better articulated and more logical. I'm not going to lie, I found myself going "wut?" at some of Huskii's arguments. Good debate though.

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#33 Edited by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

2-1 as of now.

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#34 Edited by Itachus17 (966 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for @mial42 his arguments and counters were better. And i just asked myself several times, what the freaking hell did i just read in @huskii argumentation. His nonsensical claim that Mako has faster lightning, and that he seriously expected that mial must prove him wrong as outstanding example. Or that Mako would be faster and more agile than Tenzin, with examples on a motorcycle and jet propulsion straight into the air. That was really a bit too much glorification to take it seriously.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

3-1 as of now.

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#36 Edited by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Arcus1 (23551 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting, I'll see about giving this a read

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#38 Edited by thebuckaronatr (792 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by thebuckaronatr (792 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Edited by thebuckaronatr (792 posts) - - Show Bio

@mial42: Eh ok there were a lot of downplaying and overhyping going on in this CAV, but you had the better arguments in the end. Some of huskii's arguments were pretty wacky and many not focused on the major issues, the counters from both of you had too much overhyping and downplaying.

Well i am voting for you mial, but just cause of the better arguments .

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#42 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

4-1 Mial42 as of now.

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#43 Posted by lvenger (32482 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely a lot of downplaying and out of contextualising from both sides but putting that to one side, I did think @mial42 did a better job explaining his position, providing counters to Huskii's arguments for Mako and defended them a lot more effectively. Huskii went overboard in claiming stuff like Mako is going to easily break Tenzin's defences or claiming Mako's lightning is undodgeable when plenty of agile characters have dodged it.

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#44 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

5-1 Mial42.

@huskii I'm going to close this now.

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#45 Posted by deactivated-597fe3e7af56f (2560 posts) - - Show Bio

And The Winner Is..

Tenzin, represented by Mial42
Tenzin, represented by Mial42