CAV (Major_Hellstrom) Growing man vs (Thunder Prince) 2MAU Hyperion: Voting Open

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#1 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio

Growing Man represented by @major_hellstrom

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vs

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Hyperion represented by yours truly.

Rules:

Both characters are in character.

No prep or standard knowledge.

Standard gear.

Battle takes place in a generic city.

Start 10 ft apart.

Win by death, K.O, or BFR.

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#2 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince: I'll try to get an opener up soon. Although I will be going away sometime this week and will be unable to post for a bit, just a heads up.

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#4 Posted by blackpantherisb (7602 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#5 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince: The Growing Man doesn't have a ton of feats, so this will be a quick post and a quick debate.

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Bio:

The Growing Man is a stimuloid, a form of android created by the scientific genius of Kang the Conqueror, the ruler of an alternate future Earth. A stimuloid absorbs most forms of kinetic energy directed against it; therefore, the energy causes it no physical harm. Moreover, the absorption of the energy stimulates the rapid multiplication of the stimuloid's artificial cells, causing it to grow significantly in size, with a proportionate increase in strength and resistance to damage. Presumably, the stimuloid draws its additional mass from an extradimensional source in order to grow. Kang can project an unknown form of energy from a gun that will cause the Growing Man to revert to its original size, in which it resembles an action figure. When reducing in size, the Growing Man dispatches the mass it loses back to the extradimensional source. The Growing Man has been shown to be capable of achieving a height equal to that of a building several stories tall. Presumably there is a limit to the size it can reach, for at a certain point its mass would become too great for its legs to support. The Growing Man's true form is only 8 inches tall, at which size he is immobile.

Marvel Wiki

Powers & Abilities:

The Growing Man has one main ability, the power to absorb kinetic energy and use it to grow. This means that for every attack he takes, he grows in size and power proportionally. As Spidey explains here

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Here is an example of this, in this scan he grows as he gets shot at

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Now, while Growing Man does have limits to his power, I find it hard to believe that Hyperion will be able to overtax Growing Man, as he is able to absorb powerful attacks, as shown when Thor throwing Mjolnir at him only doubled his size.

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Something he does again in Avengers #300

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So Hyperion will be hard pressed to hurt him physically. Meanwhile, Growing Man has enough strength to casually walk through a building

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Trade blows with Iron Man

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And one shot a dizzy Goliath. It is important to note that Growing Man says that even when he attacks something, he grows.

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Also, contrary to what you may assume, he isn't slow, as shown when he dodges Mjolnir

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Conclusion

For now, I only see two ways Hyperion could win, the first way is to try to overtax Growing Man like Hercules did, but seeing as how Growing Man can absorb blows from Mjolnir, I don't think that is really an option for Hyperion. The second way is for Hyperion to try and use some non-physical means to win, like using his heat vision, but I don't think that'll work either unless Hyperion's heat vision is really powerful (more on this next post if you bring it up). Meanwhile, Growing Man should have nthe strength and durability t9o beat Hyperion while also having sufficient speed.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#7 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by vsw (2969 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by CryoModeste (1344 posts) - - Show Bio

Been waiting for Hyperion cav. T4V

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#14 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18950 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#17 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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Bio:

Hyperion is a superhero from an alien world, where he, along with his team, ruled with an iron fist. When the people rejected their rule, The Squadron Supreme forcedDoctor Spectrum to destroy their planet. At some point, the Squadron Supreme separated and Hyperion began his search for a new planet he could "save".

Hyperion arrived on Earth as it was threatened by a giant meteor (implied to be the remains of Hyperion's planet. Although the Avengers were able to stop most of the asteroids, Hyperion destroyed the largest one, an "earth-killer", making him the day's hero, even earning the admiration of J. Jonah Jameson. Not long after, Hyperion invited the Avengers, who had taken an interest in the new hero, to his Citadel, where he shared with them his "tragic" story. However, the Avengers soon saw through his lies and became worried about Hyperion's extreme ways after witnessing him deal with the Wrecker.

Physicals

Strength:

Hyperion is one of the strongest beings in 2MAU. He is capable of lifting massive weights, and overpowering his versions of Hulk and Thor.

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Hyperion knocks out the Juggernaut and easily lifts a massive boulder at lease the size of a city block.

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Hyperion overpowers the Hulk and tanks Hulk's thunder clap. Keep in mind 2MAU Hulk has lifted NYC while calm and pulled tectonic plates. 2MAU Hulk's thunder claps are also capable of leveling an entire town.

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Matches and overpowers hulk again.

Hyperion is easily stronger than base Growing man and this strength advantage should come in handy for getting in or out of grapples in this battle.

Striking power:

Hyperion's striking power is fairly impressive. Captain America even once stated that "when Hulk and Hyperion fight, they shake continents".

Hyperion main attack is bull-rushing and its pretty powerful.

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Hyperion can fly faster than the speed of sound and he utilizes his speed to bull-rush Hulk through skyscrapers.

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Here Hyperion makes a massive crater with a bull-rush.

Hyperion's striking power is impressive but is isn't admittedly on the level of 616 Thor.

Durability:

Hyperion is extremely durable and the Growing Man will definitely struggle to hurt him. I've already shown you Hyperion tanking Hulk's thunder clap and hits from Thor but Hyperion has even more impressive feats.

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Here Hyperion no-sells Nighthawk swinging Iron-man into him at incredible speeds. Hyperion also casually rips off Iron-man's mask.

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Hyperion doesn't even feel multiple missiles and a uni-beam from Iron-man.

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A bull-rush from an amped Hulk moving at MHS speeds hit Hyperion but he gets up almost immediately and nonchalantly brushes the sand from his suit.

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Here Hyperion tanks multiple punches from Hulk. Hyperion also tanks a speed blitz from an amped Hulk. Keep in mind, a calm Hulk hits with "half a kiloton of force".

Hyperion is easily durable enough to tank multiple blows from Growing Man since the best striking feat you have shown is knocking out a "dizzy" Goliath.

Speed:

Hyperion is undeniably definitely faster than Growing Man.

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Hyperion is a casual arrow timer,

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Here Hyperion dodges the fast moving quin-jet and Thor's strike. Hyperion then catches Thor strike right before it hits him. This feat is even more impressive than it looks since 2MAU Thor is a casual lightning timer.

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Here Hyperion dodges multiple missiles point blank, this is a above mach 4 reaction feat.

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Here Hyperion dodges Hulk's bull-rush moving fast than the human eye can track. In order to accomplish this feat Hyperion has to move within 0.0045 seconds, which to my knowledge is much faster than Growing Man could ever strike. This isn't an outlier, Hyperion did a very similar feat in his first appearance in the show. The thing is, Hyperion did this to Hulk who is much faster than any human and Hyperion did this effortlessly. Note: the bottom GIF is slowed down to a fourth of its original speed and you will still have a hard time tracking Hyperion's movements.

Hyperion is easily faster enough to dodge any and all strikes from Growing Man.

Ranged attacks:

Atomic Vision:

Hyperion's atomic vision is insanely powerful, its easily capable of hurt beings such as Hulk and creating atomic explosions.

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Here Hyperion's Atomic vision creates a atomic explosion.

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Hyperion can easily hurt the Hulk with his atomic vision, Hulk was severely hurt after this attack and had a cast over his arm for the rest of the episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inYmlIzWNsQ&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh&index=93

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4G3xastbO8&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh&index=95

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nonjR4eZzM8&index=92&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh

Hyperion's best feat is turning an "earth killer" asteroid into hundreds of tiny cubes. Hyperion also inscribed his emblem into each and every one of them. Hyperion did this all too fast for any of the avengers to even perceive.

Hyperion can undoubtedly hurt and perhaps even one-shot Growing Man with his AV.

Vortex breath and Freeze breath:

Hyperion posses the ability to create massive vortexes with his breath, capable of throwing the massive quin-jet around like a rag doll.

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Hyperion also posses the ability to emit freezing breath from his mouth. Thor who isn't affected by freezing temperatures was unable to tank such an attack and I doubt Growing Man will be much different.

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Growing Man has no defense against these attacks and Hyperion will used them as the fight progresses.

Counters:

The Growing Man has one main ability, the power to absorb kinetic energy and use it to grow. This means that for every attack he takes, he grows in size and power proportionally. As Spidey explains here

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Here is an example of this, in this scan he grows as he gets shot at

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Now, while Growing Man does have limits to his power, I find it hard to believe that Hyperion will be able to overtax Growing Man, as he is able to absorb powerful attacks, as shown when Thor throwing Mjolnir at him only doubled his size.

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Something he does again in Avengers #300

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Impressive. You are right about Hyperion lacking the striking power to surpass Growing Man's limit but that can actually work in his favor. Due to Hyperion's lack of incredible striking feats, Growing Man won't be able to grow in strength enough to overpower Hyperion before he gets wise about Growing Man's powers.

So Hyperion will be hard pressed to hurt him physically. Meanwhile, Growing Man has enough strength to casually walk through a building

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This is extremely unimpressive compared to Hyperion's strength feats. Hyperion will easily be able to overpower Growing Man if this is the best strength feat he has.

Trade blows with Iron Man

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And one shot a dizzy Goliath. It is important to note that Growing Man says that even when he attacks something, he grows.

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Again, these are unimpressive. Goliath was dizzy as you stated yourself and Iron-man easily tanked his strikes.

Also, contrary to what you may assume, he isn't slow, as shown when he dodges Mjolnir

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I don't see how this is impressive since even streetlevers have dodged Thor's mjolnir throws.

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Unless you can prove that Thor was serious and throwing his hammer at incredible speeds, then Hyperion is massively faster.

For now, I only see two ways Hyperion could win, the first way is to try to overtax Growing Man like Hercules did, but seeing as how Growing Man can absorb blows from Mjolnir, I don't think that is really an option for Hyperion.

Agreed. Although it might be possible for multiple blitzes Hyperion to eventually overcome Growing Man's durability. But I doubt that Hyperion will keep on punching once he realizes that Growing Man only keeps on getting bigger.

The second way is for Hyperion to try and use some non-physical means to win, like using his heat vision, but I don't think that'll work either unless Hyperion's heat vision is really powerful (more on this next post if you bring it up).

Well, I believe that I have provided more than enough evidence to prove that Hyperion's HV will indeed overcome Growing Man's durability.

Meanwhile, Growing Man should have nthe strength and durability t9o beat Hyperion while also having sufficient speed.

No, Growing Man's strength is pitiful compared to Hyperion's and Hyperion posses more than enough durability to tank multiple punches from Growing Man without a scratch. Even better, he posses the speed to casually dance around Growing Man's strikes.

Conclusions and Strategy:

Hyperion actually, has multiple ways to defeat Growing Man.

  1. He could blitz Growing Man until he finally overcame his durability. Hyperion has the speed, striking power, and the mentality to successfully employ this tactic.
  2. Hyperion could use a barrage of his atomic vision to overcome Growing Man's durability. Hyperion has frequently used his AV in combat to do exactly this.
  3. He could freeze Growing Man with his freeze breath and then strike him to shatter Growing Man into a thousand pieces.
  4. He could make use of his massive strength advantage and rip Growing Man limb from limb. Hyperion has extremely loss morals and considering the fact that Growing Man is not alive in the traditional sense, Hyperion would probably try this tactic.
  5. He could use any and all the above tactics while keeping Growing Man immobile due to Hyperion's vortex breath.
  6. Finally, Hyperion could use his great strength to simply lift Growing Man into the air and take him into space. Once there, he could leave Growing Man to float for all eternity.

Hyperion has the strength, speed, and versatility to defeat this one trick pony.

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#18 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
Kang summarizes this battle well
Kang summarizes this battle well

Counters:

Impressive. You are right about Hyperion lacking the striking power to surpass Growing Man's limit but that can actually work in his favor. Due to Hyperion's lack of incredible striking feats, Growing Man won't be able to grow in strength enough to overpower Hyperion before he gets wise about Growing Man's powers.

No, Growing Man grows in strength proportionate to who he is fighting, meaning if Hyperion attacks Growing Man with all his strength, Growing Man will become as powerful as he is, then each time Growing Man takes an additional attack or attacks himself he will grow stronger and stronger than Hyperion.

This is extremely unimpressive compared to Hyperion's strength feats. Hyperion will easily be able to overpower Growing Man if this is the best strength feat he has.

I doubt that, seeing as how Thor couldn't overpower Growing Man himself

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After those panels, Growing Man gained enough strength to pick Thor up and smash him into the ground

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And just in case you didn't know much about Classic Thor, here are a couple feats

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
1. One-shots Abomination. 2. Wrecks Namor with ease in the rain

For durability, here he takes a blow from Surtur (a demon who is as powerful as Odin and the like)

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Again, these are unimpressive. Goliath was dizzy as you stated yourself and Iron-man easily tanked his strikes.

Just because he was dizzy, that does not negate his durability. As for Iron Man "easily tanking" Growing Man's strikes, that is proven to be false. Iron Man himself says that the force of Growing Man's strikes bypasses even his armor.

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I don't see how this is impressive since even streetlevers have dodged Thor's mjolnir throws.

That is from the early days of the comics when power levels weren't fully established and followed. Also showing that low showing is silly when his hammer was clearly not going that slow, showing that would be akin to me showing Thor throw his hammer across a galaxy (and it comes back in way less than a minute) then calling it fair evidence.

Unless you can prove that Thor was serious and throwing his hammer at incredible speeds, then Hyperion is massively faster.

Thor is always serious when it comes to a fight. However what is more important to note is when Growing Man says this

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Thor's reflexes allows him to dodge and block Gladiator's heat-vision, it is important to note that at this point in time, Thor did not know Glads could even do that, so this was all reflexes.

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Agreed. Although it might be possible for multiple blitzes Hyperion to eventually overcome Growing Man's durability. But I doubt that Hyperion will keep on punching once he realizes that Growing Man only keeps on getting bigger.

Well, that's not quite how it works. If you can't overtax Growing Man in one blow, you can't overtax him at all. You see, the only way he was ever shown to be beaten by pure physical force is when Herc hit him so hard that he fried Growing Man's internal circuits.

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And if you aren't strong enough to do that, then growing Man simply absorbs your attack and grows.

Well, I believe that I have provided more than enough evidence to prove that Hyperion's HV will indeed overcome Growing Man's durability.

Well, seeing as how I haven't shown Growing Man's energy durability feats yet, I can see why you think that.

No, Growing Man's strength is pitiful compared to Hyperion's and Hyperion posses more than enough durability to tank multiple punches from Growing Man without a scratch. Even better, he posses the speed to casually dance around Growing Man's strikes.

That isn't how his power works, he basically has the power of scaling. So since Hyperion will strike first due to his speed, Growing Man will gain enough strength to hurt Hyperion right off the bat. Also, Hyperion isn't more durable than Iron Man, who didn't no sell Growing Man's attacks.

Conclusions and Strategy:

He could blitz Growing Man until he finally overcame his durability. Hyperion has the speed, striking power, and the mentality to successfully employ this tactic.

That wouldn't work. Trying to overwhelm Growing Man with multiple hits is like trying to put out a fire by throwing fuel into it. He absorbs kinetic energy and uses it as power, we haven't seen an upper limit to how much he can absorb. But we have seen him absorb this

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Hyperion could use a barrage of his atomic vision to overcome Growing Man's durability. Hyperion has frequently used his AV in combat to do exactly this.

Growing Man can take blasts from Ms Marvel

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Vision (Cap and Hank were also attacking Growing Man at the same time)

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And Iron Man, and what is most impressive about this is the fact that Iron Man says that Growing Man grows as Iron Man blasts him, showing that Growing Man can absorb energy blasts as well as kinetic energy.

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He could freeze Growing Man with his freeze breath and then strike him to shatter Growing Man into a thousand pieces.

He hasn't shown the ability to freeze something as big as Growing Man and I don't see why Growing Man can't just shatter the ice like he did that building.

He could make use of his massive strength advantage and rip Growing Man limb from limb. Hyperion has extremely loss morals and considering the fact that Growing Man is not alive in the traditional sense, Hyperion would probably try this tactic.

I don't think this would work as we know that Growing Man absorbs kinetic energy AKA the energy of movement

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So if Hyperion pulls on him, he would just be supplying Growing Man with kinetic energy to absorb and grow stronger.

But if you don't share my belief, then Growing Man has other ways to circumvent this. That being his self repair functions and his speed.

His self repair functions allows him to heal right after Reed penetrates Growing Man's armor.

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That combined with the speed to dodge Mjolnir and match Thor's reflexes and I don't think Hyperion will be able to take Growing Man apart fast enough, especially since this isn't going to be a go to strategy for Hyperion.

He could use any and all the above tactics while keeping Growing Man immobile due to Hyperion's vortex breath.

Vortex breath is basically a power generator to Growing Man, so thanks for that.

Finally, Hyperion could use his great strength to simply lift Growing Man into the air and take him into space. Once there, he could leave Growing Man to float for all eternity.

That's a double BFR. In order for Hyperion to carry Growing Man into space, he would have to leave the city so Hyperion would also lose the fight.

Why Growing Man Wins

Basically Growing Man one trick is the exact type of trick one would need to take down a brawler. Just to recap......

Growing Man can absorb blows from Thor

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A Mjolnir throw

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And a blast from this saucer, which is apparently giving Growing Man enough power to level a city.

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Heck, even just touching things strengthens him

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This gives him enough strength to smash Thor's face into the ground (this didn't KO Thor but he was stunned)

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And trade blows with Hercules (although Growing Man lost this fight)

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But it doesn't just give him strength, it gives him size and speed. Yes, and speed. As Wolverine confirms.

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Which means that Growing Man has enough power to absorb Hyperion's attacks, which will eventually give him the speed, strength and size needed to beat him.

Now Hyperion does have non-physical attacks he could try, but seeing as how he starts off without even basic knowledge, I doubt he would use those attacks before trying something like this first.

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And the moment Hyperion does that, he would have supplied Growing Man with enough kinetic energy to take Hyperion on head on. But as the fight rages on, Growing Man will get more and more and powerful, while Hyperion will start to fail.

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#20 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince: Most probably 3. So bring up all you want to in your next post.

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#22 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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Counters to your counters:

No, Growing Man grows in strength proportionate to who he is fighting, meaning if Hyperion attacks Growing Man with all his strength, Growing Man will become as powerful as he is, then each time Growing Man takes an additional attack or attacks himself he will grow stronger and stronger than Hyperion.

I'd honestly like to see some proof of Growing Man getting the equal strength to the person who hit him from one or two punches.

I doubt that, seeing as how Thor couldn't overpower Growing Man himself

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After those panels, Growing Man gained enough strength to pick Thor up and smash him into the ground

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And just in case you didn't know much about Classic Thor, here are a couple feats

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
1. One-shots Abomination. 2. Wrecks Namor with ease in the rain

For durability, here he takes a blow from Surtur (a demon who is as powerful as Odin and the like)

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Impressive. But Thor didn't try to overpower Growing Man with his strength. He obviously tried to bash Growing Man with multiple punches which of course did not work because of Growing Man's power. Hyperion is smart enough to notice Growing Man gaining size from his strikes and will quickly resort to different tactics.

Thor's durability is impressive but Growing Man didn't hurt Thor or knock him out. So I do not see how Thor's durability matters here.

Smashing Thor into the ground is also unimpressive since unlike Superman, Thor doesn't posses the same steadfast kind of power. Meaning that anything powerful enough to lift his 600 pound frame will lift him.

Just because he was dizzy, that does not negate his durability. As for Iron Man "easily tanking" Growing Man's strikes, that is proven to be false. Iron Man himself says that the force of Growing Man's strikes bypasses even his armor.

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Actually being dizzy would negate his durability to a significant degree. Just like how a dizzy boxer is much more susceptible to being Koed, then a steady boxer.

Iron-man still clearly tanked his strikes as he was undamaged by the blows and continued fighting.

That is from the early days of the comics when power levels weren't fully established and followed. Also showing that low showing is silly when his hammer was clearly not going that slow, showing that would be akin to me showing Thor throw his hammer across a galaxy (and it comes back in way less than a minute) then calling it fair evidence.

True, but the point remains that Thor's Mjolnir throws vary greatly in speed. The feat is largely non-quantifiable and cannot be used as evidence that Growing Man can react to Hyperion's speed.

Thor is always serious when it comes to a fight. However what is more important to note is when Growing Man says this

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Thor's reflexes allows him to dodge and block Gladiator's heat-vision, it is important to note that at this point in time, Thor did not know Glads could even do that, so this was all reflexes.

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616 Thor is incredibly fast but 2MAU Thor is a casual lightning timer and Hyperion can still dodge his strikes consistently.

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Here Hyperion dodges a bull-rush from Thor and Thor's bull-rushes are incredibly fast. This is easily a mach 20 speed feat.

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Well, that's not quite how it works. If you can't overtax Growing Man in one blow, you can't overtax him at all. You see, the only way he was ever shown to be beaten by pure physical force is when Herc hit him so hard that he fried Growing Man's internal circuits.

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And if you aren't strong enough to do that, then growing Man simply absorbs your attack and grows.

Fair enough but this is largely unimportant since Hyperion is smart enough to stop using physical strikes once he see that Growing Man is feeding off his strikes.

That isn't how his power works, he basically has the power of scaling. So since Hyperion will strike first due to his speed, Growing Man will gain enough strength to hurt Hyperion right off the bat. Also, Hyperion isn't more durable than Iron Man, who didn't no sell Growing Man's attacks.

Strength feats and striking feats are not interchangeable. While Growing Man may gain the power of Hyperion's strikes it does not mean that he will gain the raw strength of Hyperion.

Hyperion is far more durable than 616 Iron-man. I've shown Hyperion no-selling 2MAU Iron-man's uni-beam, no-selling 2MAU Hulk's thunder clap which can level entire towns, and tanking multiple strikes from 2MAU Hulk who hits with "half a kiloton of force". And those are not even his best durability feats. Here are his best:

Thor's lightning is strong enough to one-shot the Hulkand even briefly one-shot the Superadaptoid, a being with the combined powers of the Avengers.

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Here he easily tanks lightning from Thor, gets up, and kicks Thor through a building. And for those who think that Thor was holding back, Thor said in the GIF quote "No honor, no decency, no mercy!".

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Hyperion full capable of tanking a lightning strike and a Mjolnir strike from Thor with no damage.

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Here Hyperion tanks a lightning strike, and a lightning charged Mjolnir strike from Thor that sends him to space. And yet he instantly recovers and casually stops Thor's strike.

2MAU Thor is capable of creating shock-waves powerful enough to create city busting tsunamis as a mere after effect of his strikes. one-shot Attuma who laughs at hits from Hulk,one-shot Fing Fang Foom who can tank continent sized explosions, and even one-shot the Superadaptoid with the combined power of the Avengers twice.

Counters to your conclusions and strategy:

That wouldn't work. Trying to overwhelm Growing Man with multiple hits is like trying to put out a fire by throwing fuel into it. He absorbs kinetic energy and uses it as power, we haven't seen an upper limit to how much he can absorb. But we have seen him absorb this

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Fair enough. Hyperion could always try one of his other strategies.

Growing Man can take blasts from Ms Marvel

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Vision (Cap and Hank were also attacking Growing Man at the same time)

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And Iron Man, and what is most impressive about this is the fact that Iron Man says that Growing Man grows as Iron Man blasts him, showing that Growing Man can absorb energy blasts as well as kinetic energy.

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Cool, but Hyperion's AV is more powerful than most of those energy beams.

Hulk is durable enough to tank this explosion.

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And Hyperion's AV severely hurt him. Not to mention the fact that Hyperion's AV can create atomic explosions and it managed to turn a massive asteroid into small cubes in an instant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inYmlIzWNsQ&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh&index=93

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4G3xastbO8&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh&index=95

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nonjR4eZzM8&index=92&list=PL8Jfy26H_fvZ-cdL-8iDUMxqvkJdegEvh

He hasn't shown the ability to freeze something as big as Growing Man and I don't see why Growing Man can't just shatter the ice like he did that building.

True, but Hyperion could always just freeze Growing Man's limbs and then shatter them. 2MAU Thor who can wrestle with people who pull tectonic plates and is unaffected by freezing temperatures was held by the ice for a significant amount time. Growing Man isn't breaking out of the ice.

I don't think this would work as we know that Growing Man absorbs kinetic energy AKA the energy of movement

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So if Hyperion pulls on him, he would just be supplying Growing Man with kinetic energy to absorb and grow stronger.

But if you don't share my belief, then Growing Man has other ways to circumvent this. That being his self repair functions and his speed.

His self repair functions allows him to heal right after Reed penetrates Growing Man's armor.

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That combined with the speed to dodge Mjolnir and match Thor's reflexes and I don't think Hyperion will be able to take Growing Man apart fast enough, especially since this isn't going to be a go to strategy for Hyperion.

While Growing Man can heal at a fairly fast rate, Hyperion is much faster and his speed combined with his strength should make the tearing Growing Man apart easy. Hyperion could tear Growing Man apart much faster than Growing Man can gain strength or heal.

Vortex breath is basically a power generator to Growing Man, so thanks for that.

Perhaps but Hyperion is smart enough to see Growing Man gaining his strength from the vortex and stop using that power. After all, he posses the power of "super intellect".

That's a double BFR. In order for Hyperion to carry Growing Man into space, he would have to leave the city so Hyperion would also lose the fight.

Fair enough, though he could always throw Growing Man into space with his vast strength.

Counters to "why Growing Man wins":

Basically Growing Man one trick is the exact type of trick one would need to take down a brawler. Just to recap......

Growing Man can absorb blows from Thor

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A Mjolnir throw

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And a blast from this saucer, which is apparently giving Growing Man enough power to level a city.

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Heck, even just touching things strengthens him

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This gives him enough strength to smash Thor's face into the ground (this didn't KO Thor but he was stunned)

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And trade blows with Hercules (although Growing Man lost this fight)

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I agree that Hyperion will be unable to put Growing Man down with his striking power, but remember, Growing Man will only get the power of Hyperion's strikes which are admittedly unimpressive when compared to other high tiers in the 2MAU or the 616 universe. Basically, Hyperion will easily be able to tank his own strikes.

Knocking 616 Thor over is not impressive since practically any one who can move 600 pounds will knock Thor over. Unless it did significant damage to Thor (which I doubt) it is not a good enough strength feat to suggest that Growing Man can contend with 2MAU Hyperion.

But it doesn't just give him strength, it gives him size and speed. Yes, and speed. As Wolverine confirms.

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Which means that Growing Man has enough power to absorb Hyperion's attacks, which will eventually give him the speed, strength and size needed to beat him.

The key word is eventually. I haven't seen any evidence that Growing Man automatically gains the exact speed of his opponent after a one of two strikes. It seems to me that it would take multiple strikes to get him on Hyperion's level of speed.

Now Hyperion does have non-physical attacks he could try, but seeing as how he starts off without even basic knowledge, I doubt he would use those attacks before trying something like this first.

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And the moment Hyperion does that, he would have supplied Growing Man with enough kinetic energy to take Hyperion on head on. But as the fight rages on, Growing Man will get more and more and powerful, while Hyperion will start to fail.

Surprisingly, Hyperion usually starts out his battle with a barrage of atomic vision. This will have a major impact on this battle since he can arguably one-shot Growing Man with his AV.

Why Hyperion still wins:

  • Hyperion is vastly superior to Growing Man in strength.
  • Hyperion is vastly superior to Growing Man in speed. This means Growing Man will never tag him.
  • Hyperion has the durability to easily tank multiple strikes from Growing Man should his speed fail him.
  • Growing Man has no counters to Hyperion's freeze breath and AV.
  • Hyperion tends to start out his battles with a barrage of AV which has the capability to one-shot Growing Man.

Strategies:

  1. Hyperion can use his strength to tear Growing Man limb from limb.
  2. Hyperion can use his freeze breath to freeze and then shatter Growing Man's limbs one by one.
  3. Hyperion could use his AV to one-shot Growing Man.
  4. Hyperion can use his vast strength to throw Growing Man out of the city, BFRing him.
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#23 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince: My post will take 7 days or so, since I will be AFK for a while.

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#25 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince:Sorry for taking so long, been really busy plus I had other CV stuff to attend to.

Final Counters

I'd honestly like to see some proof of Growing Man getting the equal strength to the person who hit him from one or two punches.

I didn't say that Growing Man would become his equal after one or two punches I said "if Hyperion attacks Growing Man with all his strength,h, Growing Man will become as powerful as he is" which is just how Growing Man's power works. If you hit him with all you have (i.e. a building busting blow) he will gain building busting strength.

Impressive. But Thor didn't try to overpower Growing Man with his strength. He obviously tried to bash Growing Man with multiple punches which of course did not work because of Growing Man's power. Hyperion is smart enough to notice Growing Man gaining size from his strikes and will quickly resort to different tactics.

Classic Thor also quickly realized Growing Man's power, but his next tactic was to try to beat Growing Man by hitting him with even more force.

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Thor's durability is impressive but Growing Man didn't hurt Thor or knock him out. So I do not see how Thor's durability matters here.

Smashing Thor into the ground is also unimpressive since unlike Superman, Thor doesn't posses the same steadfast kind of power. Meaning that anything powerful enough to lift his 600 pound frame will lift him.

Except Growing Man didn't just lift Thor. He was able to briefly stun him.

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You can tell from Thor's facial expressions that he was either stunned or surprised by Growing Man's strength. So it wasn't just a simple case of Thor being lifted.

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Actually being dizzy would negate his durability to a significant degree. Just like how a dizzy boxer is much more susceptible to being Koed, then a steady boxer.

That's stability and not durability. But I see where you are coming from.

Iron-man still clearly tanked his strikes as he was undamaged by the blows and continued fighting.

Is that your definition of the word tanked? Because if so, then that doesn't take anything away from Growing Man's feat. Iron Man's classic armor was also able to tank blows from Hulk and keep fighting.

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After he took those hits from Hulk, he was still able to keep fighting by dabbing.

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Btw, Iron Man only showed real damage after the first scan I showed.

Now I am not saying nor implying that Growing Man = Hulk, my point is that if your definition of "easily tanking" is the ability to keep fighting without visual damage after an attack, then that doesn't mean much since Iron Man can keep fighting after sustaining a lot of damage. Also, it is worth noting that the Hulk in this issue was strong enough to do this.

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Now, I also feel the need to say that I do not agree with your definition. To me tanking means being able to take attacks without being discomforted (which is different from no selling which is being able to take attacks without reacting at all), and Iron Man clearly felt Growing Man's attacks. So to me saying that Iron Man easily tanked Growing Man's hits is a borderline lowball.

True, but the point remains that Thor's Mjolnir throws vary greatly in speed. The feat is largely non-quantifiable and cannot be used as evidence that Growing Man can react to Hyperion's speed.

Everything is quantifiable if you have the right eye. We don't know how long Thor's hammer took to make it to Growing Man, but from this shot, which took place right before Thor threw his hammer, we know that Growing Man was about a street's distance away and was roughly as tall as a building.

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We also know that Thor aimed for the head of Growing Man. So while we don't know specifics, we do know that Thor's hammer had to cross a sizeable distance in a short amount of time, meaning we can guesstimate how fast the hammer was going, and to me at least, crossing that distance in a short time would be around sniper bullet speed or a bit slower. This is Growing Man's base speed, AKA the speed he obtained by himself, without the aid of his opponents hitting him. But as we know, Growing Man's speed increases as well as his strength.

Also on a sidenote, both times Thor tagged Growing Man with Mjolnir it was by surprise. In the first time, Thor kicked pebbles at Growing Man before striking (you can even see the pebbles still in the air when Mjolnir lands) and in the second time, he surprised Growing Man from above while GW was preoccupied.

616 Thor is incredibly fast but 2MAU Thor is a casual lightning timer and Hyperion can still dodge his strikes consistently.

1. I don't see how that makes 2MAU Thor a lightning timer, much less a casual one. 2. Even if 2MAU Thor was a casual lightning timer, that is a reaction feat which doesn't apply to Hyperion since they are in combat.

Here Hyperion dodges a bull-rush from Thor and Thor's bull-rushes are incredibly fast. This is easily a mach 20 speed feat.

How is that Mach 20? MAybe 2MAU Thor carrying the monster into the sky is Mach 20, but just because 2 MAU Thor can bullrush at Mach 20 doesn't mean he bullrushed Hyperion at Mach 20. Again, saying this is akin to saying that 616 Thor threw Mjolnir at Growing Man at FTL+ speeds just because we know he can, but obviously, Thor didn't do that.

Fair enough but this is largely unimportant since Hyperion is smart enough to stop using physical strikes once he see that Growing Man is feeding off his strikes.

Too bad he won't as easily realize that Growing Man can feed off more than just physical attacks. As I showed, he absorbed Iron Man's repulsor beams.

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Strength feats and striking feats are not interchangeable. While Growing Man may gain the power of Hyperion's strikes it does not mean that he will gain the raw strength of Hyperion.

He absorbs kinetic energy and turns it into power and size, not just striking strength.

Hyperion is far more durable than 616 Iron-man. I've shown Hyperion no-selling 2MAU Iron-man's uni-beam, no-selling 2MAU Hulk's thunder clap which can level entire towns, and tanking multiple strikes from 2MAU Hulk who hits with "half a kiloton of force". And those are not even his best durability feats. Here are his best:

Wait, wait, wait. This is a CaV between Growing Man and Hyperion. I get that you are trying to debunk my statement of 616 Iron Man being more durable but if I were to engage in that debate, it would barely help my case for Growing Man and it is pretty out of topic. With that said, I will go quickly though your feats since I have the same counter to all of them.

Here he easily tanks lightning from Thor, gets up, and kicks Thor through a building. And for those who think that Thor was holding back, Thor said in the GIF quote "No honor, no decency, no mercy!".

Hyperion full capable of tanking a lightning strike and a Mjolnir strike from Thor with no damage.

Here Hyperion tanks a lightning strike, and a lightning charged Mjolnir strike from Thor that sends him to space. And yet he instantly recovers and casually stops Thor's strike.

Those are all energy durability feats. Growing Man hit Iron Man with striking damage, thus, according to the Vine, energy feats do not apply.

My Conclusions

Hulk is durable enough to tank this explosion.

And how large was that explosion? Since it is in outer space, I can't quantify it. Also, did Hulk really tank it when we see him being blasted away by it?

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I think not. Since that is a cartoon it would follow more childish logic, and childish logic says that if you ride an explosion you survive it, only being slightly hurt.

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Also, I question the consistency of the 2MAU verse for this scaling to be valid. In your own video, you have Hulk, Iron Man and Thor failing to take out an asteroid

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Which I find hard to believe. But more importantly, we see Hulk struggle to push on a small portion of it, now I don't know if he was just super weakened or what, but I also found a clip of Hulk lifting New York from underwater.

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Which is crazy since that asteroid is way smaller than New York

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So Hulk struggling to push back against that chunk of rock is concerning. Now maybe there was context behind that, which is fine. But I also found this clip wherein Cap fights Crossbones and Black Panther and fails to take down either one of them.

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Yet this is the same man that takes down Giant Man easily and humiliate Spider-Man and his team.

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Something does not make sense to me. But again, I am not as acquainted with this verse so maybe the power levels here are super wack. However, even then, you showed me Hyperion tanking hits from Hulk, catching a smash and getting back after an amped Hulk blitzes him. Aaaaaand Cap punches Hyperion several away

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and Hulk and Thor wreck Hyperion in another clip.

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So at this point, I don't even know what the heck could be going on except for inconsistencies. Meaning I don't think it is good to scale in this verse.

And Hyperion's AV severely hurt him. Not to mention the fact that Hyperion's AV can create atomic explosions and it managed to turn a massive asteroid into small cubes in an instant.

That is impressive, Hyperion zapped an asteroid. But also not enough. The asteroid was way smaller than a city as I already showed, but Growing Man already absorbed an energy blast that gave him enough power to level a city.

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Also before you bring up the fact that Iron Man said that the asteroid was a world killer, Growing Man also has statements saying that he has planet level potential. As hinted by Iron Man

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And stated by Thor

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Now I am not saying Growing Man does have that potential, I am just setting up preemptive counters since this is my last post.

True, but Hyperion could always just freeze Growing Man's limbs and then shatter them. 2MAU Thor who can wrestle with people who pull tectonic plates and is unaffected by freezing temperatures was held by the ice for a significant amount time. Growing Man isn't breaking out of the ice.

If you just freeze one limb at a time, Growing Man just uses the other limb to shatter the ice. Also saying you freeze a limb then shatter it doesn't work since Growing Man is an android meaning he is made out of metal. Encase metal rod in ice and try to break it, you will find that the only thing you break is the ice encasing the metal. The same thing will happen here. See the reason freezing can make things easier to break is that freezing things lower elasticity, not hardness, metal gets its durability from being hard and not elastic, unlike rubber.

While Growing Man can heal at a fairly fast rate, Hyperion is much faster and his speed combined with his strength should make the tearing Growing Man apart easy. Hyperion could tear Growing Man apart much faster than Growing Man can gain strength or heal.

Okay then prove that Hyperion can and will do that. AKA prove that Growing Man's kinetic energy absorption can somehow be bypassed by being ripped or pulled apart using kinetic force, also prove that Hyperion would do this IC before he goes down. If you can't do either then there is no point in countering an unsubstantiated claim.

Perhaps but Hyperion is smart enough to see Growing Man gaining his strength from the vortex and stop using that power. After all, he posses the power of "super intellect".

And by then it may already be too late.

Fair enough, though he could always throw Growing Man into space with his vast strength.

First of all, Growing Man won't let himself be lifted or thrown around. Second of all, you haven't shown anything to suggest that Hyperion can even throw something as massive as Growing Man into space, it also seems OOC since you originally said that Hyperion's main attack is bullrushing.

"Hyperion main attack is bull-rushing and its pretty powerful."

Why Growing Man Wins

1. Durability

I will copy paste what I said before. Growing Man can absorb powerful attacks from blows from Thor

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To a Mjolnir throw

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And a blast from this saucer, which is an energy absorption feat (goodbye heat vision argument)

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But he doesn't just absorb attacks, he negates them, which is why he is basically unharmed by them. Here he is after being beaten down by Herc. Looking quite unharmed, only downed since he became pinned by Kang's stuff.

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This means that every time Hyperion attempts to hurt Growing Man, Growing Man will not only be stronger he will also be unharmed by Hyperion's attempts. Physical or energy. Meaning the only way you can even hope to take Growing Man out is through incap or BFR but luckily, before that Hyperion opens with HV and his main attack is bullrushing according to you.

" Hyperion usually starts out his battle with a barrage of atomic vision."

"Hyperion main attack is bull-rushing and its pretty powerful."

Meaning, before he can wise up, Growing Man is already too powerfu\fast for him to beat.

2. Strength and Speed

As I have shown and stated multiple times by this point, Growing Man absorbs kinetic energy and proportionally turns it into size and power.

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So while Hyperion may have the initial strength advantage, since you said Hyperion likes starting with a bullrush, that advantage will soon be moot then surpassed. Something like this will likely happen.

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And in terms of speed, as I have said, "base" Growing Man is fast enough to react to around sniper bullet level attacks but since his speed grows when he is hit, similar to his strength, he will soon be able to consistently tag Hyperion since Hyperion isn't that much faster than a sniper bullet himself.

We don't know how long Thor's hammer took to make it to Growing Man, but from this shot, which took place right before Thor threw his hammer, we know that Growing Man was about a street's distance away and was roughly as tall as a building.

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We also know that Thor aimed for the head of Growing Man. So while we don't know specifics, we do know that Thor's hammer had to cross a sizeable distance in a short amount of time, meaning we can guesstimate how fast the hammer was going, and to me at least, crossing that distance in a short time would be around sniper bullet speed or a bit slower. This is Growing Man's base speed, AKA the speed he obtained by himself, without the aid of his opponents hitting him. But as we know, Growing Man's speed increases as well as his strength.

So by the time Hyperion is done with his barrage and bullrush, Growing Man would already be stronger than him and fast enough to not get blitzed.

And evenwhen Hyperion stops with his barrage and bullrush, Growing Man would keep getting stronger since just touching things strengthens him

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Conclusion

Growing Man will tank Hyperion's initial onslaught, then right afterward will smash Hyperion into bits with his newfound power which will only grow. The only way that you mentioned that could let Hyperion win is BFR and you still need to prove that Hyperion can throw someone who can grow as big as a small mountain into space. That will be hard to prove since you aren't even supposed to bring up new feats in your last post.

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#28 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: My post is taking a little longer than expected. It will probably be up during the weekend. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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#30 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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Final counters:

That will be hard to prove since you aren't even supposed to bring up new feats in your last post.

I looked for this rule in CAVs but I was unable to fine it. Nevertheless, instead of bring up new feats I will simply provide more context for the ones already posted.

I didn't say that Growing Man would become his equal after one or two punches I said "if Hyperion attacks Growing Man with all his strength,h, Growing Man will become as powerful as he is" which is just how Growing Man's power works. If you hit him with all you have (i.e. a building busting blow) he will gain building busting strength.

Cool, as I said before Hyperion's lack of high tier striking feats will play to his advantage.

Classic Thor also quickly realized Growing Man's power, but his next tactic was to try to beat Growing Man by hitting him with even more force.

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As most people can probably tell from my username I am a huge Thor fan. And even I admit that Thor is not incredibly intelligent, and no one would ever compare his intelligence to a super genius like Hyperion. If even Thor was able to quickly deduce Growing Man's abilities than Hyperion would be able to replicate the feat even faster.

Except Growing Man didn't just lift Thor. He was able to briefly stun him.

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You can tell from Thor's facial expressions that he was either stunned or surprised by Growing Man's strength. So it wasn't just a simple case of Thor being lifted.

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No, Thor was not stunned. You even showed later in your post that in the very next panel Thor was up and fighting.

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That's stability and not durability. But I see where you are coming from.

My point still stands, knocking out a dizzy boxer is not comparable to knocking out a steady and healthy boxer. The same logic can be applied to Growing Man knocking out a dizzy Goliath.

Is that your definition of the word tanked? Because if so, then that doesn't take anything away from Growing Man's feat. Iron Man's classic armor was also able to tank blows from Hulk and keep fighting.

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After he took those hits from Hulk, he was still able to keep fighting by dabbing.

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Btw, Iron Man only showed real damage after the first scan I showed.

Now I am not saying nor implying that Growing Man = Hulk, my point is that if your definition of "easily tanking" is the ability to keep fighting without visual damage after an attack, then that doesn't mean much since Iron Man can keep fighting after sustaining a lot of damage. Also, it is worth noting that the Hulk in this issue was strong enough to do this.

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Now, I also feel the need to say that I do not agree with your definition. To me tanking means being able to take attacks without being discomforted (which is different from no selling which is being able to take attacks without reacting at all), and Iron Man clearly felt Growing Man's attacks. So to me saying that Iron Man easily tanked Growing Man's hits is a borderline lowball.

My definition of the word "tanked" is a character still being in fighting condition after receiving a strike. Your own definition of tanked to me is more akin to the term "shrugged off". That being said, Iron Man was clearly still in fighting condition after receiving a strike from Growing Man meaning to me at least, that he tanked Growing Man's strike. Failing to one-shot Iron Man is not really a high tier striking feat and cannot be used to suggest that Growing Man could hurt Hyperion.

Everything is quantifiable if you have the right eye. We don't know how long Thor's hammer took to make it to Growing Man, but from this shot, which took place right before Thor threw his hammer, we know that Growing Man was about a street's distance away and was roughly as tall as a building.

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We also know that Thor aimed for the head of Growing Man. So while we don't know specifics, we do know that Thor's hammer had to cross a sizeable distance in a short amount of time, meaning we can guesstimate how fast the hammer was going, and to me at least, crossing that distance in a short time would be around sniper bullet speed or a bit slower. This is Growing Man's base speed, AKA the speed he obtained by himself, without the aid of his opponents hitting him. But as we know, Growing Man's speed increases as well as his strength.

Also on a sidenote, both times Thor tagged Growing Man with Mjolnir it was by surprise. In the first time, Thor kicked pebbles at Growing Man before striking (you can even see the pebbles still in the air when Mjolnir lands) and in the second time, he surprised Growing Man from above while GW was preoccupied.

Interesting, although the concept of measuring how fast a projectile is moving in a comic is extremely flawed. The formula used to calculated the speed of an object requires these variables, distance, and time. You can only guess the distance and have no idea how much time it took for Mjolnir to cross said distance. Ergo, the speed of Mjolnir when Growing Man dodged it is non-quantifiable.

Even if we were to say that Mjolnir was moving at the speed of a sniper bullet, Hyperion is much faster than that.

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This feat was shown in your very first post and it contains a scene in which Hyperion blitzes an amped Hulk. This Hulk was amped so massively that he was able to run from NYC to Las Vegas to an island in the middle of the Pacific in less than 20 seconds.

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That 2521+150=2671. 2671 divided by 21 equals 127.19047619, or by rounding the number 127.

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That feat makes Hyperion massively hypersonic, in comparison the fastest sniper bullet moves at mach 3.

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1. I don't see how that makes 2MAU Thor a lightning timer, much less a casual one. 2. Even if 2MAU Thor was a casual lightning timer, that is a reaction feat which doesn't apply to Hyperion since they are in combat.

1. The fact that Thor and a robotic clone of him were casually throwing lightning bolts at each other. Thor and his robotic clone would then casually bat the lightning out of the air after it was fired. 2. Thor was in combat with his robotic clone when he was casually batting down lightning bolts.

How is that Mach 20? MAybe 2MAU Thor carrying the monster into the sky is Mach 20, but just because 2 MAU Thor can bullrush at Mach 20 doesn't mean he bullrushed Hyperion at Mach 20. Again, saying this is akin to saying that 616 Thor threw Mjolnir at Growing Man at FTL+ speeds just because we know he can, but obviously, Thor didn't do that.

First of all, Thor blitzed carried a massive robot from ground level to space in roughly 3 seconds, but I will low-ball the feat and say that he did it 4 seconds.

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So Hyperion reacted to a mach 73 Thor not mach 20 which is well within his range considering the last feat I went over.

This equation of course requires Thor to go all out which his was. As I showed in an earlier post, previously in that episode Thor flat out stated that he would give Hyperion "No mercy". That makes it pretty clear that Thor was going all out when fighting Hyperion and Hyperion still managed to dodge his bull-rush with ease.

Too bad he won't as easily realize that Growing Man can feed off more than just physical attacks. As I showed, he absorbed Iron Man's repulsor beams.

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True, but Hyperion's AV is much more powerful than anything Growing Man has ever tanked as I will soon show.

He absorbs kinetic energy and turns it into power and size, not just striking strength.

Of course, but as you said before Growing Man merely absorbs the force of the strike and not the strength of the person striking him. That is why again, Hyperion's low striking power is an asset and instead of a hindrance.

Those are all energy durability feats. Growing Man hit Iron Man with striking damage, thus, according to the Vine, energy feats do not apply.

Not all of them, Especially the feat where Thor strikes Hyperion into space and Hyperion not only tanks it but also casually overpowers Thor. Due to the striking feats for Thor that I mentioned in my other posts, it is easy to say that Hyperion shrugged off a continent level strike.

Counters to my opponent's conclusions:

And how large was that explosion? Since it is in outer space, I can't quantify it. Also, did Hulk really tank it when we see him being blasted away by it?

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I think not. Since that is a cartoon it would follow more childish logic, and childish logic says that if you ride an explosion you survive it, only being slightly hurt.

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As I should in my post the explosion was big enough to dwarf planets/moons/planetoids.

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While usually you would be right about cartoon characters riding the blast wave Annihilus was vaporized by the blast wave as shown in your post and in my previous post. In conclusion, Even if Hulk was riding the blast wave a character durable enough to casually tank lightning strikes from Thor was vaporized by the same blast wave. And yet Hyperion's AV severely damaged Hulk, ergo, Hyperion's AV will one-shot Growing Man.

Also, I question the consistency of the 2MAU verse for this scaling to be valid. In your own video, you have Hulk, Iron Man and Thor failing to take out an asteroid.

Which I find hard to believe. But more importantly, we see Hulk struggle to push on a small portion of it, now I don't know if he was just super weakened or what, but I also found a clip of Hulk lifting New York from underwater.

Which is crazy since that asteroid is way smaller than New York

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So Hulk struggling to push back against that chunk of rock is concerning.

Hulk's striking power, and strength are entirely depended on his rage. Even so, Hulk did not struggle to push against the it, he was knocked of the asteroid because of it. Those are two very different things. And if you do not want to accept that explanation then it is also possible to label that feat as a outlier since Hulk has a long history of lifting much bigger things as I've shown in my previous posts.

Now maybe there was context behind that, which is fine. But I also found this clip wherein Cap fights Crossbones and Black Panther and fails to take down either one of them.

Yet this is the same man that takes down Giant Man easily and humiliate Spider-Man and his team.

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Something does not make sense to me. But again, I am not as acquainted with this verse so maybe the power levels here are super wack.

2MAU Black Panther is simply more skilled than Cap and is also capable of fighting Ares the god of war to a standstill. Here are some other feats for BP credit for these feats go to @bladeoffury

BP clowned the entire Masters of Evil (a team of super-villains on par with the Avengers):

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T'Challa began the above fight surrounded by super-villains, his invisibility removed by Enchantress' spells, and the Avengers defeated. Yet, he manages to throw them around, casually take back the vibranium they stole, and escape from right under their noses

Crossbones is a physical tank that can no-selll gun fire, and beat Spider Man. Basically, both of these characters are on Cap's level of skill, power, and durability.

However, even then, you showed me Hyperion tanking hits from Hulk, catching a smash and getting back after an amped Hulk blitzes him. Aaaaaand Cap punches Hyperion several away

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and Hulk and Thor wreck Hyperion in another clip.

So at this point, I don't even know what the heck could be going on except for inconsistencies. Meaning I don't think it is good to scale in this verse.

To be fair, this is 2MAU Cap. The dude has literally hurt every single high tier that he has fought against with his strikes from Captain Marvel, to an amped Hulk, to even Thanos.

Hulk and Thor only took out Hyperion after he tanked attacks from the entire Avengers. Even then it took a blood-lusted Thor blindsiding hyperion by bull-rushing from space at insane speeds, a similar bull-rush did this.

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As I said, none of what you brought up is inconsistent in the 2MAU universe.

That is impressive, Hyperion zapped an asteroid. But also not enough. The asteroid was way smaller than a city as I already showed, but Growing Man already absorbed an energy blast that gave him enough power to level a city.

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Also before you bring up the fact that Iron Man said that the asteroid was a world killer, Growing Man also has statements saying that he has planet level potential. As hinted by Iron Man

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And stated by Thor

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Now I am not saying Growing Man does have that potential, I am just setting up preemptive counters since this is my last post.

That is fine, I agree that Growing Man is not planet level and that the asteroid is not as big as NYC. But Hyperion's AV severely injured Hulk who has the energy durability feats that I should above. It is obvious that 2MAU Hulk has better energy durability than Growing Man and yet Hyperion's AV severely injured.

If you just freeze one limb at a time, Growing Man just uses the other limb to shatter the ice. Also saying you freeze a limb then shatter it doesn't work since Growing Man is an android meaning he is made out of metal. Encase metal rod in ice and try to break it, you will find that the only thing you break is the ice encasing the metal. The same thing will happen here. See the reason freezing can make things easier to break is that freezing things lower elasticity, not hardness, metal gets its durability from being hard and not elastic, unlike rubber.

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Science disagrees with you, thus this is still a viable tactic.

Okay then prove that Hyperion can and will do that. AKA prove that Growing Man's kinetic energy absorption can somehow be bypassed by being ripped or pulled apart using kinetic force, also prove that Hyperion would do this IC before he goes down. If you can't do either then there is no point in countering an unsubstantiated claim.

1. I am not required to prove that Growing Man's kinetic energy absorption can be bypassed by being ripped apart, it is your job to prove that this is not a viable tactic or that Growing Man can absorb the strength of his opponents merely by being in physical contact. No opponent that I know of has ever attempted to use this tactic against Growing Man before meaning that whether or not he is susceptible to such a tactic is relatively unknown. Bottom line, Growing Man has never shown to ability to resist this tactic in any way that I know of.

2. Hyperion's durability will prevent him from being taken out anytime soon by even his own striking power as I have clearly shown throughout this debate. Hyperion has the morals or lack thereof and the sufficient strength feats to employ such a tactic. And finally, Hyperion has the genius level intellect to think of this tactic and the speed to allow him more than enough time to consider this option.

And by then it may already be too late.

While Hyperion's vortex breath is powerful it is not so much that it could boost Growing Man's strength to Hyperion's level. After all, Hyperion has matched Hulk and overpowered Thor both of whom are strong enough to pull tectonic plates as I showed in my previous posts.

First of all, Growing Man won't let himself be lifted or thrown around. Second of all, you haven't shown anything to suggest that Hyperion can even throw something as massive as Growing Man into space, it also seems OOC since you originally said that Hyperion's main attack is bullrushing.

"Hyperion main attack is bull-rushing and its pretty powerful."

Hyperion could simply fly in a similar way to how DCEU Superman took DD into space and then use his vast strength to throw Growing Man into space. There is nothing Growing Man could to stop this considering the massive speed and strength gap.

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I've shown you Hyperion casually matching Hulk who can pull tectonic plates.

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That is more than enough strength to pick up a building sized being and throw them into space. And while Hyperion's main attack is bull-rushing Hyperion is smart enough to realize that his attack only made the Growing Man increase in size and will immediately try to use other tactics. It should not take a super genius with super speed long to think up the similar tactics to the ones I thought up in a few minutes.

Counters to "Why Growing Man wins":

1. Durability

I will copy paste what I said before. Growing Man can absorb powerful attacks from blows from Thor

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To a Mjolnir throw

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And a blast from this saucer, which is an energy absorption feat (goodbye heat vision argument)

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But he doesn't just absorb attacks, he negates them, which is why he is basically unharmed by them. Here he is after being beaten down by Herc. Looking quite unharmed, only downed since he became pinned by Kang's stuff.

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This means that every time Hyperion attempts to hurt Growing Man, Growing Man will not only be stronger he will also be unharmed by Hyperion's attempts. Physical or energy. Meaning the only way you can even hope to take Growing Man out is through incap or BFR but luckily, before that Hyperion opens with HV and his main attack is bullrushing according to you.

" Hyperion usually starts out his battle with a barrage of atomic vision."

"Hyperion main attack is bull-rushing and its pretty powerful."

Meaning, before he can wise up, Growing Man is already too powerfu\fast for him to beat.

As I've said many times throughout this debate, Hyperion's striking power is admittedly abysmal for a high tier, especially when compared to someone like Classic Thor. But that will play to Hyperion's advantage, his initial bull-rush will cause Growing Man to gain very little size and strength. After seeing his opponent grow in size from his attack Hyperion will then realize even more quickly then Classic Thor the true nature of Growing Man's ability and will change tactics. Hyperion's AV is powerful enough to severely injure 2MAU Hulk whose energy durability is far above Growing Man's meaning that if Hyperion opens with AV Growing Man will be one-shotted.

2. Strength and Speed

As I have shown and stated multiple times by this point, Growing Man absorbs kinetic energy and proportionally turns it into size and power.

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So while Hyperion may have the initial strength advantage, since you said Hyperion likes starting with a bullrush, that advantage will soon be moot then surpassed. Something like this will likely happen.

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And in terms of speed, as I have said, "base" Growing Man is fast enough to react to around sniper bullet level attacks but since his speed grows when he is hit, similar to his strength, he will soon be able to consistently tag Hyperion since Hyperion isn't that much faster than a sniper bullet himself.

We don't know how long Thor's hammer took to make it to Growing Man, but from this shot, which took place right before Thor threw his hammer, we know that Growing Man was about a street's distance away and was roughly as tall as a building.

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We also know that Thor aimed for the head of Growing Man. So while we don't know specifics, we do know that Thor's hammer had to cross a sizeable distance in a short amount of time, meaning we can guesstimate how fast the hammer was going, and to me at least, crossing that distance in a short time would be around sniper bullet speed or a bit slower. This is Growing Man's base speed, AKA the speed he obtained by himself, without the aid of his opponents hitting him. But as we know, Growing Man's speed increases as well as his strength.

So by the time Hyperion is done with his barrage and bullrush, Growing Man would already be stronger than him and fast enough to not get blitzed.

And evenwhen Hyperion stops with his barrage and bullrush, Growing Man would keep getting stronger since just touching things strengthens him

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As I have already proven, Hyperion's horrible striking power (in relation to other high tiers) will be an advantage, and will not allow Growing Man to reach or surpass Hyperion's strength level. I've already proven that base Growing Man is only as fast mach 3 if we use flawed mathematics and even if he was Hyperion is hundreds of times faster than mach 3. This means that even after a single bull-rush Growing Man will be unable to tag Hyperion. And while Growing Man does grow by simply touching objects he will not grow nearly as fast as he would if Hyperion kept on wailing on him.

Counters to my opponent's conclusions:

Conclusion

Growing Man will tank Hyperion's initial onslaught, then right afterward will smash Hyperion into bits with his newfound power which will only grow. The only way that you mentioned that could let Hyperion win is BFR and you still need to prove that Hyperion can throw someone who can grow as big as a small mountain into space.

  1. Hyperion's initial bull-rush does not contain enough power make Growing Man on Hyperion's level of speed or strength. This means that Growing Man can not "smash Hyperion into bits" due to his inability to tag him. Hyperion's durability is also far beyond his own striking power making the prospect of smashing "Hyperion into bits" even more unlikely.
  2. I've mentioned multiple ways for Hyperion to win, including freezing Growing Man's limbs then shattering them, one-shotting Growing Man with his AV, ripping Growing Man apart with brute strength, and finally the BFR tactic. Regarding the final tactic Hyperion is easily strong enough to lift and throw Growing Man since Growing Man will be the size of a building at best. Remember, Hyperion's striking power is no where near small mountain level, it is at best skyscraper level.

Final Conclusions:

Hyperion simply has too many ways to win, all of which my opponent was unable to counter. Growing Man does no posses the speed to catch Hyperion, the strength to overpower him, the durability to survive a barrage of AV, or a counter to Hyperion's tactics. Hyperion does not posses the striking power to amp Growing Man to the level of strength, or speed needed to combat Hyperion while Hyperion posses both the mind set and the physical abilities to win this battle with ease.

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#31 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18950 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll try to vote on this in a week, remind me if I forget.

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#37 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for voting.

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#38 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll try to vote on this in a week, remind me if I forget.

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#39 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18950 posts) - - Show Bio

@thunderprince: Busy working on my post for our CaV, I will try to get on this whenever I get the chance.

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#41 Posted by vsw (2969 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna vote for MH as o feel GM could absorb enough energy in Order to beat Hyperion before he knew his ability

Good debate tho

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#42 Posted by ThunderPrince (7101 posts) - - Show Bio