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#1 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

CaV: Backlash vs DCAU Damian Wayne and YJ Arsenal

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V.S.

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Rules:

  • Wildstorm Backlash
  • Animated Damian Wayne
  • Composite Red Arrow/Arsenal
  • All characters are in their prime
  • Tie-ins are allowed
  • Standard teamwork
  • Basic knowledge
  • Standard gear
  • In-character
  • Battle takes place 20 feet apart

Battle Location:

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#2 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28492 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag if I'm in here when you open this.

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: I'll go first, but I reserve the right to request a 4th post for counters if I deem it fit, correct.

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#4 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: If you are asking if that is standard practice, then no. But if you are asking if I am okay with it, then yeah.

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: I know it isn't standard practice, but I do know that it is a rule you usually put forth when you go first in CaVs, so I was asking if I could do the same.

Expect my opener soon

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#6 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Yeah, that's fine.

Cool. Though I already have a pre-made opener I can post now, lol.

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

ROY HARPER AND DAMIAN WAYNE: THE SIDEKICKS GONE ROGUE

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TEAM THEME

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THE SIDEKICKS GONE ROGUE I: ROY HARPER

H2H SKILL

In terms of physical strength, Roy is very strong for a mid street leveler.

Roy's best exemplification of physical strength was when he casually kicked down a thick metal door.

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That just goes to show how strong Roy is in terms of pure striking strength, but it is not like he is all muscle. No, he has the skill to put it together as well.

While Roy may be a ranged fighter, he is no slouch when it comes to h2h combat.

He can overwhelm and even best Sportsmaster in combat, who is a master martial artist.

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As stated before, ranged combat is Roy's bread and butter, but if Backlash decides to turn this into a h2h fight, he is more than capable of holding his own.

SPEED

In addition to his great strength, Roy is also pretty fast as well.

Roy is fast enough to dodge a sonic blast from Blue Beetle, easily putting him at supersonic +.

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I will leave the speed feats at this for now as it should be more than sufficient enough to prove that Roy is more than fast enough to react to Backlash's attacks.

WEAPONRY

Roy's biggest asset in this fight is his weaponry.

Roy's arsenal (pun intended) includes his cybernetic arm and bow and arrow.

CYBERNETIC ARM

Roy's cybernetic arm can transform into a blaster, missile launcher, and grappling hook. Now while the third option may not seem all that impressive, Roy can actually use the grappling hook to increase the distance between him and Backlash in case Backlash starts to close in.

For starters, Roy's cybernetic arm can transform into a blaster that fires a continuous stream of lasers that can pierce through Black Beetle's armor. Needless to say, if that baby hits Backlash, he is screwed.

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Roy's arm can also transform into a missile launcher that fires missiles rapid fire, evident when he was fighting Mongul.

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Lastly, his arm can transform into a grappling hook, which as said before, is used to increase the distance between opponents.

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BOW AND ARROW

With his bow and arrow, Roy is an absolute monster.

Roy's arrows include explosive arrows, powerful enough to open locked, thick metal doors.

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He is also equipped with a net arrow, which he can use to tag Cheshire with, who in turn can evade laser fire. This shows that even if you have a high reaction speed, bullet timers would be hard pressed to evade it due to the area it covers.

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Another AoE attack he has is how knockout gas arrow.

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There is also what I like to call Roy's "foam arrow" which, as explained by @thevivas, is

An arrow that releases a high-density polyurethane foam that spreads around a target and prevents them from moving:

He used this to trap Parasite, who at the time, had the power of Superboy.

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Lastly, there is Roy's taser arrow.

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Now I am aware that Backlash is a bullet timer, but as shown previously, Roy's arrows have tagged bullet timers before, evident when he tagged Parasite with Superboy's powers and Cheshire. So being a bullet timer doesn't automatically make you able to dodge Roy's arrows. And Roy's arrows not only have great speed, but precision as well.

This is exemplified when Roy shoots an arrow into the barrel of a gun hundreds of feet away and in mid air.

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But most impressively was when, from behind a pillar, Roy hits the trigger of Cheshire's bazooka, messing up its aim. And again, this was from hundreds of feet away.

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Thus, Roy's vast arsenal ensures that he can hold his own and even overwhelm Backlash. His aim and speed allows him to tag Backlash, despite him being a bullet timer as he has tagged bullet timers before with his arrows. This especially the case considering that Backlash also has to deal with the one and only...

THE SIDEKICKS GONE ROGUE II: DAMIAN WAYNE

STRENGTH

UNARMED

While not Damian's forte, Damian is still very strong in regards to his strength without a sword.

Damian can casually break a ninja's neck.

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He can also kick an enemy, sending them through thick glass.

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Here, Damian sends Batman flying several feet away.

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But most impressively was when he threw a scientist several feet away, sending him over a table and breaking a metal door in the process.

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ARMED

As said before, with his sword, Damian is an absolute monster in strength.

Damian can cut down thick wooden pillars with ease.

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He can also cut down small trees like butter

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While off screen, Damian Wayne during his fight with Nightwing was able to cut through Nightwing's armor as Nightwing can be seen with several wounds from his fight with Damian. And Nightwing's armor can take a beating.

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Lastly, Damian was able to casually slice a demon creature in half with his sword.

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From cutting through armor to cutting trees and demons like butter, Damian Wayne is more than capable of piercing Backlash with his sword and delivering fatal blows.

SPEED

Now this is where Damian Wayne really shines.

Damian is casually able to avoid minigun fire.

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In terms of combat speed, Damian can blitz armed guards before they can even fire.

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And in a feat of both reaction and combat speed, Damian was able to tag Flash, who can outrun lightning and even sees lightning in slow motion.

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This feat alone far surpasses anything Backlash is capable of, proving that Damian Wayne is faster than Backlash by a pretty decent margin.

DURABILITY

Another category that Damian excels at is durability.

Damian Wayne can take having both of his arms impaled and one arm broken and still keep on fighting.

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In terms of blunt force durability, Damian Wayne can tank being hit with a boulder hard enough for it to break apart.

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And being hit by the Flash.

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This all goes to shows that Backlash would be hard pressed to be able to take out Damian Wayne for good.

FIGHTING SKILL

Lastly, we have Damian Wayne's fighting skill.

Damian Wayne has been trained in the ways of assassination by the League of Assassins.

Damian Wayne excels with a sword in combat.

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However, he is no slouch in unarmed combat as he can easily take out multiple highly trained ninja Man Bats.

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I will leave Damian's fighting skill feats at this for now as I am sure that this should be more than enough to prove that Damian is more than capable of holding his own against Backlash.

THE SIDEKICKS GONE ROGUE III: CONCLUSION

Roy and Damian are the perfect team to take out Backlash. With one ranged fighter and one close combat fighter, I don't see Backlash being able to take both of them on.

Overall, my team wins for the following reasons

  • Backlash may be a bullet timer, but both Roy and Damian have tagged people of the same speed or faster
  • Damian and Roy are both very skilled combatants in hand to hand
  • Since Damian is faster than Backlash, he would be hard pressed to deal with Damian while dodging Roy's attacks
  • Damian is had to put down
  • Both Roy and Damian are bullet timers with Damian being a casual bullet timer

@major_hellstrom

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#10 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Well somebody really likes DJH's style. Lmao.

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Well somebody really likes DJH's style. Lmao.

ikr. I told him I'd be taking some ques from his post lol

BTW, when can I expect your post

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Also, since I am not using Aqualad anymore, can you change the location of the fight pls

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#14 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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Backlash

Bio:

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Stats:

Being a peak Kherubim, Marc has stats beyond any normal human. Let me give you a rundown, starting with........

Speed:

As you told me when you were setting up this match, you will rely on speed as your argument. So let me show you what you will have to deal with in the speed department.

First of all, Backlash is a casual bullet timer. As seen below, where he casually dodges multiple machine guns in a small space. But it's not just that, while he was dodging the bullets, he closes the distance between him and the gunmen.

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Here is another example of him casually bullet timing. This time he dodges shots from Savage Dragon until SD ran out of ammo.

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But Marc isn't just a casual bullet timer. One of his most impressive feats shows him dodging batons and laser fire from all around, casually. In the same scans, he is called the fastest and most agile member of Stormwatch (a group filled with peak and metahumans).

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Scans are backward

Strength:

In terms of strength, Marc does not have too many feats as his main form of offense are his psi whips. However, using the feats he does have, I can safley say that he can punch out of his tier. Which is bad news for you since he is already a tier above both of your characters.

This claim is supported by the fact that Backlash was able to draw blood from Savage Dragon with a kick.

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Same Savage Dragon that tanked thsese

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  • Scan 1 & 2 (backward): Tanks a hit from Bedrock (although I am pretty sure that is Badrock). A class 50-100.
  • Scan 3: Is unharmed when a building falls on him.

Backlash can also charge his hits (sort of like Iron Fist). Which he does to one shot 3 inches of bulletproof glass.

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Durability:

Even without misting, Backlash is a man you will have a hard time putting and/or keeping down.

Look at this for example. Here a wall of fire burns him, yet he is barely bothered, it only manages to knock him off balanced.

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He also took a full blast from Helspont to the face and didn't die.

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And that was after Backlash had just recovered from a previous blast from Helspont. So he took two blasts from Helspont in one issue.

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Helspont, btw casually blasted away Youngblood (which is a superhero team. Remember Badrock? He is a member there).

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But what about physical durability? You might be wondering. Well, remember our old friend Savage Dragon? Because he is back again. Here Backlash survives a hit from him.

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Again, same Savage Dragon who one-shots dragons with a flipping brick.

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And's that's not his only feat of taking attacks from mid tiers. Here Backlash survived getting rag-dolled by Helspont after already tanking two blasts from him (as I showed) and almost drowning. Talk about tough.

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Skill and Powers:

Backlash is a bad @ss, that is already pretty clear. But before you think he can't get any cooler, he does. Take his skill for example.

Skill:

Now I won't spend too much time on skill since I don't know how important it will before the debate just yet. But you should know that Backlash is amazingly skilled, like better than Batman level.

For example, here Backlash is, easily getting the better of Zealot.

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That feat is made even more impressive when you consider 3 things, 1. Marc did not want to fight her. 2. He was rusty at this point. 3. Zealot is one of the best fighters in Wildstorm, seriously, she fought frigging Midnighter in CQC.

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The fight continues on but with weapons. If you wanna see more read WildC.A.T.S. #25:

If you want to know how good Midnighter (shameless plugin) check this out.

Plus Zealot's dang strong too. She has enough strength to knock over Mr. Majestic (AKA Supes but stronger) hard enough to dent a wall.

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But enough about her, let's go back to Backlash. Here is another feat of him stomping a hero, this time it is Battlion (who is kinda like Cable, here is a wiki link), and this time Backlash was serious.

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Psi Whips:

Moving on we have Backlash's Psi Whips, which are, as I have said, Backlash's main offense.

These things are dang strong, for starters they are able to easily slice through military APC.

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It also has feats of causing such an intense amount of pain that it can force Daemonites out. A Daemonite is what Helspont is, for reference.

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And speaking of Helspont, he is, not only, impressed and briefly restrained by the whips.

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But he is also, later dragged down by them against his will.

Misting:
Misting:

Misting:

You probably already get the gist of this ability just by its name. But here are some feats to reaffirm what it does (turn him into mist) and show you him using it to get the drop on people.

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He can use the ability on only some parts of his body if he wishes to, doing this negates basically any attack, like this stab.

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He can also attack while fully in mist form.

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Conclusion:

At a glance, I would say that Backlash is significantly stronger and more durable than either or even both of your team members combined, is fast enough to outpace Arsenal and keep pace with Damian, is skilled enough to toy with both members of your team, and to top it all off, he has the ability to turn into mist to phase through your attacks and the ability to summon his psi-whips which should be able to easily restrain or even take out either member of your team.

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#17 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom said:

Well somebody really likes DJH's style. Lmao.

ikr. I told him I'd be taking some ques from his post lol

BTW, when can I expect your post

When do you figure? Jk, it's up.

Keep in mind, that my opener is from a previous CaV that I lightly tweaked. It has almost all of Backlash's high-end feats cause I was facing a low mid-tier at the time.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: BTW, I am using YJ comic feats for my team so can you just say composite Roy in the OP rather than just animated Roy.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

REBUTTAL: THE YOUNG JUSTICE VS THE STORMWATCHER

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YOUNG JUSTICE VS THE STORMWATCHER I: STRIKING STRENGTH

This claim is supported by the fact that Backlash was able to draw blood from Savage Dragon with a kick.

This isn't as impressive as you make it out to be as I will prove below.

Scan 1 & 2 (backward): Tanks a hit from Bedrock (although I am pretty sure that is Badrock). A class 50-100.

Except Bardock also drew blood from Savage Dragon, so this doesn't hold much weight when trying to hype up Savage Dragon's durability.

Scan 3: Is unharmed when a building falls on him.

Ehhh. This isn't completely blunt force. I mean you are trying to compare Savage Dragon tanking a punch from Backlash to tanking a building falling on him, and the two aren't really comparable.

Backlash can also charge his hits (sort of like Iron Fist). Which he does to one shot 3 inches of bulletproof glass.

Impressive, but in a fight with someone as fast as Roy and Damian, is this feat really applicable in CQC considering its long charge time? Hell, has Backlash even used this attack mid combat?

These things are dang strong, for starters they are able to easily slice through military APC.

This is very impressive, but Roy and Damian have tanked worst.

On one hand we have Roy tanking multiple punches from a bloodlusted Aquaman.

Aquaman is strong enough to send Aquaman to the floor with a punch, even causing him to take a few seconds just to recover. And that was Aquaman with his morals back on.

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This is impressive because Aqualad can tank being hit hard enough to dent metal and immediately recover. This means that Aquaman's punches with morals on are way more powerful than this, let alone morals off Aquaman, and Roy was able to tank several hits from Aquaman with only a bloody lip.

As for Damian, he can tank a kick from Wonder Woman.

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For reference, Wonder Woman's blows can level multiple buildings.

YOUNG JUSTICE VS THE STORMWATCHER II: SPEED

First of all, Backlash is a casual bullet timer. As seen below, where he casually dodges multiple machine guns in a small space. But it's not just that, while he was dodging the bullets, he closes the distance between him and the gunmen.

Here is another example of him casually bullet timing. This time he dodges shots from Savage Dragon until SD ran out of ammo.

While I concede that Backlash may be faster than Roy in reaction speed, it is not by that large a margin as Roy has casually evaded sonic attacks, making his reaction way over the speed of sound as well. As for Damian, he is uncontestedly faster than Backlash. Damian not only has the same feat of evading gunfire casually while closing the distance, but he also has a feat of tagging an enemy way over MHS + speeds with ease. This feat alone shits on anything you have shown far for Backlash, be that combat or reaction speed.

But Marc isn't just a casual bullet timer. One of his most impressive feats shows him dodging batons and laser fire from all around, casually.

This is unquantifiable.

In the same scans, he is called the fastest and most agile member of Stormwatch (a group filled with peak and metahumans).

Actions speak louder than words my friend...

YOUNG JUSTICE VS THE STORMWATCHER III: DURABILITY

Look at this for example. Here a wall of fire burns him, yet he is barely bothered, it only manages to knock him off balanced.

Cool, but how is his explosive durability? Because getting lit on fire and getting hit by rapid fire missiles are too different things.

He also took a full blast from Helspont to the face and didn't die.

Feats from Helspont that make this impressive?

But what about physical durability? You might be wondering. Well, remember our old friend Savage Dragon? Because he is back again. Here Backlash survives a hit from him.

You really need piercing durability feats against my team as Damian Wayne's forte is sword combat.

He can use the ability on only some parts of his body if he wishes to, doing this negates basically any attack, like this stab.

This is entirely dependent on Backlash's reaction speed, and since Damian's combat speed is so fast that he can tag MHS + enemies, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do the same to Backlash.

YOUNG JUSTICE VS THE STORMWATCHER IV: CONCLUSION

Now I won't spend too much time on skill since I don't know how important it will before the debate just yet. But you should know that Backlash is amazingly skilled, like better than Batman level.

I am not even going to bother countering skill because while Backlash may be more skilled, it is not by so large a margin that it can compensate for Damian's massive combat and reaction speed advantage, as I will go into below.

At a glance, I would say that Backlash is significantly stronger and more durable than either or even both of your team members combined, is fast enough to outpace Arsenal and keep pace with Damian, is skilled enough to toy with both members of your team, and to top it all off, he has the ability to turn into mist to phase through your attacks and the ability to summon his psi-whips which should be able to easily restrain or even take out either member of your team.

First of all, while I concede that Backlash is stronger than Roy and Damian, it is almost an unfair comparison considering that striking strength is neither of their specialties. Roy specializes in ranged combat and Damian specializes in piercing attacks. Second of all, dodging bullet doesn't translate to combat speed, so just because Backlash is a casual bullet timer in reaction speed doesn't mean he can outpace Roy in combat speed. As for Damian, he is faster than Backlash by a pretty substantial margin to the point that skill won't be enough to compensate for the massive speed gap. In addition, remember that Damian will be the one to engage Backlash while Roy will be the one to use his grappling hook to increase distance. So Backlash will have to get past Damian to get to Roy, which is highly unlikely. Lastly, Damian and Roy have the durability to tank anything Backlash can throw at them, assuming that Backlash even gets to the ladder and his mist ability can be overwhelmed by Damian's combat speed. And while if Backlash is able to restrain Damian and Roy, it could prove to be problematic, Damian and Roy have to fast of a reaction time to be tagged by Backlash's whips while Roy is more than capable of tagging Backlash with his arrows, because as said before, his accuracy and arrow speed has tagged casual bullet timers before.

Thus, Roy and Damian win for the aforementioned reasons in addition to the fact that Backlash can't contend with Damian's speed while at the same time evading Roy's attacks, some of which have tagged bullet timers.

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#21 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters: Strength

This isn't as impressive as you make it out to be as I will prove below.

First things first, when you say you will prove something, it means that you will provide evidence and an explanation as to why your claim is true. However, that is not what you've done. You did attempt to provide counters but no proof.

Except Bardock also drew blood from Savage Dragon, so this doesn't hold much weight when trying to hype up Savage Dragon's durability.

Except Badrock is quite literally 5-10x stronger than the Young Justice's strongest member, Superboy. So him drawing blood from Savage Dragon should not somehow lower Backlash's feat.

Ehhh. This isn't completely blunt force. I mean you are trying to compare Savage Dragon tanking a punch from Backlash to tanking a building falling on him, and the two aren't really comparable.

They are both blunt force durability feats. They may not be a 1:1 comparison, but disregarding this feat because of that fact is weak.

Impressive, but in a fight with someone as fast as Roy and Damian, is this feat really applicable in CQC considering its long charge time? Hell, has Backlash even used this attack mid combat?

How did you infer that there was a long recharge time? Because in the second panel he hasn't even started charging his fist yet, but in the third, he is already ready to strike. Also yes, he can do it mid-battle, but that is the best quantifiable feat he has of it. Here he is using it in combat, as you can see there is no long charge time at all.

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On one hand we have Roy tanking multiple punches from a bloodlusted Aquaman.

Aquaman is strong enough to send Aquaman to the floor with a punch, even causing him to take a few seconds just to recover. And that was Aquaman with his morals back on.

This is impressive because Aqualad can tank being hit hard enough to dent metal and immediately recover. This means that Aquaman's punches with morals on are way more powerful than this, let alone morals off Aquaman, and Roy was able to tank several hits from Aquaman with only a bloody lip.

That is nice and all but I don't see how blunt force is supposed to protect against energy whips that punctured a bulletproof vehicle.

Also, I don't see how that set of scaling is even supposed to be better than slicing an armored vehicle. An APC has to be bulletproof to small as a minimum but can be as durable as a tank

APCs must provide a minimum amount of protection against small arms fire to be considered as such, though some provide as much protection as a main battle tank,

Wikipedia

So at a minimum, APCs already have better piercing durability than Aqualad (who you mainly scale from) unless you can prove that Aqualad is bulletproof.

As for Damian, he can tank a kick from Wonder Woman.

For reference, Wonder Woman's blows can level multiple buildings.

That is bad scaling as Wonder Woman was clearly not exerting herself as much against Damian as she only wanted to kick him away. However, even if that scaling was sound, Backlash can still easily compete. Savage Dragon withstood a building falling on him, yet Backlash still drew blood from him.

Counters: Damian's Speed vs Backlash's

While I concede that Backlash may be faster than Roy in reaction speed, it is not by that large a margin as Roy has casually evaded sonic attacks, making his reaction way over the speed of sound as well. As for Damian, he is uncontestedly faster than Backlash. Damian not only has the same feat of evading gunfire casually while closing the distance, but he also has a feat of tagging an enemy way over MHS + speeds with ease. This feat alone shits on anything you have shown far for Backlash, be that combat or reaction speed.

Ah very well, let us dissect Damian then to see if your claim holds up.

Damian vs. The Flash

You keep saying that Damian tagged MHS+ characters but in your opening post you only show Damian cutting bullets and tagging Flash, so I assume by MHS+ characters, you are just saying he tagged Flash. But first of all, Flash being tagged by Damian was clearly PIS, and inconsistent at best. I mean, the dude sees lightning in slow motion, Damian shouldn't be able to even breath on Barry without his permission. However, I won't rely on that as my argument. Now, there are a bunch of things I want to bring up so I will make each as brief as possible, but I will expand upon them if needed.

Point 1. Flash was not going at full speed

Here is Flash running at Damian

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But his running speed was already shown to be much faster than that. Just compare his running speed from the clip below to the GIF above.

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Heck, Flash can run so fast that he is almost FTE, which he clearly isn't in your Damian scan.

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So clearly, Flash was not going at full speed, and do you want to know why?

Point 2. Flash was weaker

I don't know if Trigon possessing him made him slower or dumber, or the writing was just dumb. But Flash was portrayed as slower when Trigon got to him, and here is why.

First of all, you have to know that Flash was confirmed to be able to run faster than Superman. As you can see here when they both try to outrun Omega Beams, but when Supes fails, Flash succeeds.

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Now you may be thinking that Barry succeeded thanks to having better maneuverability, but that just isn't the case. Here is a still image of both running before Supes takes flight and Flash is visibly the faster one of the two by a pretty good margin

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I added the time code in case you wanted to see for yourselves.

This is important because Trigon possessed Flash fought Supes and while he was able to land a few blows, Supes was able to not only easily catch his hit but he also tags Flash easily and breaks his leg in the process

So clearly, something is up here.

Point 3. Damian tagging Flash is not a show of speed

Yes, Damian tagging Flash is not even a speed feat. It is a skill feat. While it does take some level of speed to tag Flash, Damian was actually using his tactical ability to do it. How do I know this? Because Flash is consistently able to blitz Damian in their fight. You showed a scan of this yourself

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But while you could argue Damian was caught off guard there, he was clearly not ready in this scan where Flash blitzes him again

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As you can see, Damian was attacking Flash before he blitzed Damian to the ground. So he was not caught off guard or anything, he is simply not actually fast enough to do anything to defend himself. Which is likely why you didn't use this as a show of durability since it disproves the notion that Damian is somehow fast enough to tag Flash.

TLDR There you go. 3 good reasons, asides from the obvious PIS factor, as to why Damian tagging the Flash isn't nearly as impressive as you make it out to be.

Damian's Combat Speed

In your summary, you say this

Second of all, dodging bullet doesn't translate to combat speed,

Which is just nailing yourself in the head really. And you want to know why? Because Damian's combat speed is near abysmal. Here is a bunch of evidence proving it

Fight 1: Nightwing vs. Damian Wayne

Here is an example of Damian's combat speed, in this scene he is clashing with Nightwing for sparing practice

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And as you can see, their combat speed is real-world peak human level. Nothing Backlash won't laugh at.

Here is the full fight for reference

Here is another example of Damian clashing swords with someone

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Again, nothing special. In fact, he fights even slower here IMO.

Here is the full fight for reference, time-stamped to Damian getting blasted by a charge up attack, showing that his reaction speed isn't infallible either

Fight 3: Batman vs Robin

Here is another showing, this time he fights Batman in CQC and Batman blocks Damian's attacks, barely even moving. TRhis shows that 1. Damian isn't that fast. and 2. Backlash could also block Damian's attacks using his skill advantage even if he were slower, which he isn't.

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Full fight for reference, and while yes, Robin wins this one, it still shows poor combat speed

TLDR As you can see, Damian's combat speed is barely above real-world fighters, if even that. So Damian is not as quick as you want him to be, and sadly for you, your own words have backfired unto you.

Backlash's Speed

Before I display combat speed, I will first display movement speed. Just so you can better gauge Backlash's abilities. So first things first, Backlash can easily maneuver through a wave of blaster fire

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And here he is doing it to bullets

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I show that so you can see how fast when maneuvering around attacks. So that you can gauge how quickly he would be when he pulls the same acrobatic techniques against opponents.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

But enough of this, you guys want feats of combat, not agility. So here it is, two feats proving he is just as quick in combat as he is in acrobatics. In this first scan, he shows that his hits are moving at blur speeds as he blitzes a poor man

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And as for the whips, here he uses rthem to entangle a fast flier as he dodges an attempted bullrush

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This is because he can control his psi-whips at the speed of thought

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TLDR He can dance around bullets, blasters, and enemies. But unlike Damian, his combat speed isn't poor as his hits are shown to be blur speeds and his whips can move as fast as he thinks since they are just psychic constructs.

Counters: Durability

Cool, but how is his explosive durability? Because getting lit on fire and getting hit by rapid fire missiles are too different things.

Glad you asked. An older and out of touch Backlash, tanked this

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Feats from Helspont that make this impressive?

I already showed a feat for Helspont..........but here are more showing of him blasting away teams

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I don't have time to go through who those guys are exactly, but just know that they range from street-mid tier levels in power. Helspont is no joke.

You really need piercing durability feats against my team as Damian Wayne's forte is sword combat.

This is entirely dependent on Backlash's reaction speed, and since Damian's combat speed is so fast that he can tag MHS + enemies, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do the same to Backlash.

Since I already attempted to dismantle your entire speed argument, I say this happens when Damain tries to cut him

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Conclusions:

I conclude that Damian and Roy get destroyed. Why? Well, you already handed me the skill and strength advantages

I am not even going to bother countering skill because while Backlash may be more skilled

I concede that Backlash is stronger than Roy and Damian

And then tried to rely on your "massive" speed advantage. But really, 1. Tagging Trigon Flash isn't as good as you think it is. 2. Damian's combat speed is nothing. 3. Slayton can move around quicker, hit faster and use his whips at the speed of thought. Damian holds no advantage over him in terms of speed while Slayton does have some advantages over Damian. Besides that, neither Roy nor Damian can convincingly tank a single attack from Backlash thanks to him puncturing an armored military vehicle and drawing blood from Savage Dragon, and even if they could it would leave them open to more and more attacks, meaning they won't last after the first one either way.

TLDR You underestimated the skill advantage, underestimated the strength advantage, overplayed your supposed speed and ignored misting, which negates damage, and would be a huge problem for you to deal with. And in terms for the fight itself, these two will be outclassed by Backlash, plain and simple.

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#23 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Just letting you know, I do intend to have a fourth post as my closer.

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#25 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

REBUTTAL: THE DYNAMIC DUO

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THE DYNAMIC DUO I: STRENGTH

Except Badrock is quite literally 5-10x stronger than the Young Justice's strongest member, Superboy. So him drawing blood from Savage Dragon should not somehow lower Backlash's feat.

My point is that you can't compare Badrock to Backlash. How about we use an analogy to make this easier to understand. Let's say there was a man who was punched in the face by a 100 pound weakling and he drew blood from the man with his punch. Now let's say that a 300 pound beefcake hits the man and he also draws blood from the man with his punch. Are you then going to say that this 100 pound weakling hits as hard as the 300 pound beefcake. HELL NO!

They are both blunt force durability feats. They may not be a 1:1 comparison, but disregarding this feat because of that fact is weak.

Exactly. The fact that they are not 1:1 comparisons allows for it to be disregarded because being punched int he face isn't the same as having a small building fall on you. It is impressive, sure, but you trying to compare the two is kind of dumb.

How did you infer that there was a long recharge time? Because in the second panel he hasn't even started charging his fist yet, but in the third, he is already ready to strike. Also yes, he can do it mid-battle, but that is the best quantifiable feat he has of it. Here he is using it in combat, as you can see there is no long charge time at all.

Touche...

That is nice and all but I don't see how blunt force is supposed to protect against energy whips that punctured a bulletproof vehicle.

Also, I don't see how that set of scaling is even supposed to be better than slicing an armored vehicle. An APC has to be bulletproof to small as a minimum but can be as durable as a tank

The whips that Backlash uses are blunt weapons, they just strike with so much force that it can be interpreted as a piercing attack. So yes, blunt force durability can still be applied here. And I would argue that while Aqualad isn't bulletproof, Aquaman would be capable of destroying an armored vehicle as well.

Aqualad can easily recover from metal denting attacks, and yet was heavily staggered by one punch from Aquaman, with morals on. Thus, Aquaman morals off must be hitting with way more force than it takes to dent metal and Roy only got a blood lip from two bloodlusted hits from Aquaman, implying that he can tank much more. I would say that is the equivalent of tanking a hit from Backlash's whips. And that is assuming that Backlash's whips move faster than the speed of sound as if his isn't the case, Damian and Roy can easily evade it.

That is bad scaling as Wonder Woman was clearly not exerting herself as much against Damian as she only wanted to kick him away. However, even if that scaling was sound, Backlash can still easily compete. Savage Dragon withstood a building falling on him, yet Backlash still drew blood from him.

Bad scaling? Seriously? Wonder Woman was bloodlusted. And she was leveling multiple buildings with HER STRIKES. If anything your scaling is off as you are trying to compare getting punched to tanking a building fall on top of you while I am comparing Wonder Woman literally hitting down buildings to Wonder Woman kicking Damian. Now which comparison seems more quantifiable hmmm?

Even if your scaling was correct, Wonder Woman leveled a skyscraper with her blows. Savage Dragon only tanked a small building falling him.

THE DYNAMIC DUO II: SPEED

Heck, Flash can run so fast that he is almost FTE, which he clearly isn't in your Damian scan.

Flash didn't move FTE when he dodged lightning so when Flash isn't moving FTE, he is still way over MHS.

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This is important because Trigon possessed Flash fought Supes and while he was able to land a few blows, Supes was able to not only easily catch his hit but he also tags Flash easily and breaks his leg in the process

This is bad logic. First of all, it took Superman several seconds to actually process how fast the Flash was moving, so Flash is clearly faster than Supes. And this was morals on Barry. A bloodlusted Flash, who was undoubtedly going faster than he did against Superman, was tagged by Damian.

While it does take some level of speed to tag Flash, Damian was actually using his tactical ability to do it. How do I know this? Because Flash is consistently able to blitz Damian in their fight. You showed a scan of this yourself

Tactical ability? That is BS and you know it my dude. This was pure and raw speed. Damian Wayne literally used his combat speed to tag the Flash. No tactics were involved at all. As for the other two blitzes you mentioned, the first one Damian was clearly taken by surprise, so you really only have one case of the Flash blitzing Damian, which isn't enough to justify a complete asspull and attribute Damian tagging Flash to "tactics."

There you go. 3 good reasons, asides from the obvious PIS factor, as to why Damian tagging the Flash isn't nearly as impressive as you make it out to be.

Except you reasons are bs. As for PIS, it isn't that because one the Flash was running straight at Damian making it convenient for Damian to trip the Flash, and two Flash is portrayed as faster than Damian meaning Damian isn't MHS, not that that was even called into question. This feat proves that Damian has a reaction and combat speed far over the speed of sound, not that Damian is MHS or MHS +. Thus, this feat is valid and isn't as much of an outlier as you make it out to be. At max, it puts Damain at high hypersonic +, which is reasonable considering that he is also a pretty casual bullet timer, which would normally clock him in at hypersonic.

And as you can see, their combat speed is real-world peak human level. Nothing Backlash won't laugh at.

In the gif you showed, Damian wasn't even on the offensive, so this isn't showing Damian's combat speed. Second, this was a sparring match so both were likely holding back> This is further exemplified by the fact that we have seen what Damian Wayne is capable of doing to Nightwing when he goes all out.

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Here is the full fight for reference, time-stamped to Damian getting blasted by a charge up attack, showing that his reaction speed isn't infallible either

First of all, Damian Wayne thought that Blue Beetle was defeated, giving Blue Beetle time to charge his attack before unleashing it point blank at Damian. Plus, this is a low end feat of Damian's, and you are essentially lowballing Damian. I mean I could just as easily pull low end feats for Backlash.

Again, nothing special. In fact, he fights even slower here IMO.

Yet another instance where Damian Wayne is holding back. Lucky you huh. Damian Wayne wasn't trying to kill Blue Beetle. If anything, the two were just sparring.

Full fight for reference, and while yes, Robin wins this one, it still shows poor combat speed

Hand to hand combat isn't Damian's forte, sword combat is, and as I have shown, Damian is clearly much faster with a sword.

He can dance around bullets, blasters, and enemies. But unlike Damian, his combat speed isn't poor as his hits are shown to be blur speeds and his whips can move as fast as he thinks since they are just psychic constructs.

I don't see how dancing around bullets is anything impressive to Damian. And again, you have shown instances where Damian Wayne is either holding back or out of his element.

As for moving at blur speeds, that clearly was't blur speeds. That was just the artist conveying the fact that Backlash was punching his victim several times, evident by the several 'whack's next to the image.

And moving at blur speeds isn't anything new for Damian wnyway.

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In regards to moving at the speed of thought, that's not even at the speed of sound so that isn't impressive.

In the human context, the signals carried by the large-diameter, myelinated neurons that link the spinal cord to the muscles can travel at speeds ranging from 70-120 meters per second (m/s) (156-270 miles per hour[mph]), while signals traveling along the same paths carried by the small-diameter, unmyelinated fibers of the pain receptors travel at speeds ranging from 0.5-2 m/s (1.1-4.4 mph).

THE DYNAMIC DUO III: CONCLUSION

My team wins for the following reasons

  • Damian is faster than Backlash, and thus Backlash won't be able to mist
  • Damian and Roy can tank anything Backlash throws at them
  • You have yet to prove that Backlash won't be tagged by Roy's attacks, which have tagged casual bullet timers in the past
  • Both Roy and Damian can easily evade Backlash's whips
  • Skill is a non factor considering the fact that Damian Wayne is faster than Backlash by a large margin
  • You have yet to prove that Backlash can keep up with the faster Damian while evading Roy's attacks

And let me just stress one thing:


ROY IS NOT A NON FACTOR

Roy will put immense pressure on Backlash through his vestarility, firing missiles, lasers, and arrows that have tagged casual bullet timers. And Backlash won't be able to evade all of this while fighting with the faster Damian Wayne.

You are trying to argue for Damian and draw attention from Roy and yet you have yet to show me anything that suggest he won't be tagged by Roy's arrows and weaponry while he is fighting Damian. And remember, Roy has pinpoint precision so he would be hard pressed to evade a hit from Roy

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: You need some sort of proof reading, a lot of this seems like things you thought of on the spot.

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: I mean, a lot of your counters seem like you just thought of them.

For example I said that Damain is slow in combat and you said it was because he was holding back, which isn't entirely a bad counter but you had the chance to actually show how fast Damian is without holding back, but you don't seem to have shown any examples. Asides from that, you allowed me to almost completely make Roy a non-factor by hot bringing him up and focusing on Damian's speed.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: I mean, a lot of your counters seem like you just thought of them.

For example I said that Damain is slow in combat and you said it was because he was holding back, which isn't entirely a bad counter but you had the chance to actually show how fast Damian is without holding back, but you don't seem to have shown any examples.

I did show you when Damian wasn't holding back when he fought Nightwing and severely injured him.

Asides from that, you allowed me to almost completely make Roy a non-factor by hot bringing him up and focusing on Damian's speed.

No you didn't. I brought up Roy in my conclusion

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#31 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Yeah, but that isn't a combat speed feat since we only see the aftermath.

That's the conclusion. The after thought.

Will post soon btw.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: What did you change? Also, is it just me or have all my videos disappeared?

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#34 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters: Strength

My point is that you can't compare Badrock to Backlash. How about we use an analogy to make this easier to understand. Let's say there was a man who was punched in the face by a 100 pound weakling and he drew blood from the man with his punch. Now let's say that a 300 pound beefcake hits the man and he also draws blood from the man with his punch. Are you then going to say that this 100 pound weakling hits as hard as the 300 pound beefcake. HELL NO!

That is assuming we know Backlash's strength limit. But it is unknown to us. So really the example should be

A man who can punch with 50 tons of force walks up to a bank vault and is able to dent it. Another man then does the same. Therefore it is not illogical to compare both men to each other.

However, I can see where you are coming from, and because of that, I shall oblige you with another set of feats. This time it is a feat of Savage Dragon no selling\tanking damage. First up is two scans showing a set of trains being thrown at Savage Dragon, but SG tanks the damage, unfazed.

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Here is another duo of scans, this time he falls from a great height but gets back up easily, without losing a drop of blood, and fights again

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And here is a 3rd scan, this time he gets whacked hard enough to be sent flying through steel beams yet he gets back up again

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So there you go, Backlash was able to make a man who could tank those attacks bleed. Take that as you will. I personally think it is more than enough proof to say that Roy and Damian's skulls crack in one blow each.

Exactly. The fact that they are not 1:1 comparisons allows for it to be disregarded because being punched int he face isn't the same as having a small building fall on you. It is impressive, sure, but you trying to compare the two is kind of dumb.

They are both blunt force durability feats.

The whips that Backlash uses are blunt weapons, they just strike with so much force that it can be interpreted as a piercing attack.

And therefore you would need piercing durability to withstand it.

So yes, blunt force durability can still be applied here. And I would argue that while Aqualad isn't bulletproof, Aquaman would be capable of destroying an armored vehicle as well.

Also, who told you they were blunt forced weapons? It seems like your counters are coming from preconceived notions. Backlash can use his whips as projectiles and shape his whips as such. They almost look like blaster bolts really.

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Bad scaling? Seriously? Wonder Woman was bloodlusted. And she was leveling multiple buildings with HER STRIKES.

Yes. We know she didn't go all out on Damian. Because if she were, he would be dead, and we would have seen a mach cone if he were somehow able to tank the attack, like when she fought Superman

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If anything your scaling is off as you are trying to compare getting punched to tanking a building fall on top of you while I am comparing Wonder Woman literally hitting down buildings to Wonder Woman kicking Damian.

So either you are claiming that Damian is durable enough to tank attacks from someone who collapsed a skyscraper which is inconsistent at best, either that or Wonder Woman wasn't going all out, which means we don't know how much force was behind her attack.

Now which comparison seems more quantifiable hmmm?

Quantifiability is important, yes. But logical reasoning is more important. And you claiming that Damian has that high level of durability isn't more logical to me.

Even if your scaling was correct, Wonder Woman leveled a skyscraper with her blows. Savage Dragon only tanked a small building falling him.

It took multiple blows for WW's attacks to level the skyscraper. just saying.

Counters: Speed

Flash didn't move FTE when he dodged lightning so when Flash isn't moving FTE, he is still way over MHS.

It's perspective. Flash was moving towards a moving camera (as you can tell by watching the background), so he wouldn't be FTE. Perception of speed is relative to the viewer after all.

This is bad logic. First of all, it took Superman several seconds to actually process how fast the Flash was moving, so Flash is clearly faster than Supes. And this was morals on Barry. A bloodlusted Flash, who was undoubtedly going faster than he did against Superman, was tagged by Damian.

Except Superman is able to catch Barry's attack after being wailed on.

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Also, while I cannot definitely prove this, my interpretation of Superman pausing to think was not him trying to process Flash's speed, but rather it was him trying to think of a way to disable the Flash without severely harming him. I believe it would be more IC for Superman to hesitate to hurt his allies, that and it wouldn't make sense for him to need to process Barry when we just saw him catch Barry's attack.

Tactical ability? That is BS and you know it my dude. This was pure and raw speed. Damian Wayne literally used his combat speed to tag the Flash. No tactics were involved at all. As for the other two blitzes you mentioned, the first one Damian was clearly taken by surprise, so you really only have one case of the Flash blitzing Damian, which isn't enough to justify a complete asspull and attribute Damian tagging Flash to "tactics."

You are arguing from a fixed point here. And what I mean by that is you are in the line of thinking that Damian did use his speed in order to catch Flash, and I have to prove otherwise. But that is not the case, we both have conflicting scans showing Damian get blitzed and Damian tagging Flash. But whereas my argument provides reasoning as to how Damian tagged Flash without using pure speed, yours does not provide any reasoning as to how Flash blitz Damian, who is supposedly fast enough to tag him.

Damian's Combat Speed Part 2

Your counters to my first set of scans were basically that Damian was holding back or Damian is better with swords. Which are more excuses than counters really. However, I shall oblige with more scans.

Scan 1: Damian Wayne vs. Ubu

In this scan Damian is fighting a villain, and thus has no reason to hold back, but not only that here he fights with a sword. So let us see how he does

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As you can clearly see, his attacks still aren't that quick, but not only that, Ubu tags him clean, and he isn't even that fast. This is consistent.

Scan 2: Damian vs. Ra's al Ghul

Here is another scan, here Damian fights Ra's, a villain, with a sword

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In this fight, Damian actually shows greater combat speed, but not anything faster than Backlash has shown. Damian also gets tagged again, getting kicked down before getting sliced.

Scan 3: Damian vs. Talon

Another villain, but this time Damian uses a sai instead of a sword.

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Here Damian again does not display anything impressive, but in this scan, he gets easily overwhelmed by Talon, whose strikes are around blur speed (same speed as Backlash). In fact, he only manages to pull a victory after pounding on Talon from behind while Talon was distracted.

Scan 4: Damian vs. Deathstroke's Knives

Against another villain using his preferred weapon of choice.

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Here Damian displays his vulnerability to getting overwhelmed by blur speed attacks yet again, as Deathstroke manages to tag Damian with a throwing knife by rapidly throwing them.

As for moving at blur speeds, that clearly was't blur speeds. That was just the artist conveying the fact that Backlash was punching his victim several times, evident by the several 'whack's next to the image.

Yeah, he punched his victim several times......using blur speed. The artist would have just used speed lines if he wanted to display simple movement, but that wasn't what is being portrayed here, he drew after images, blurred the punch's path and added around 9 "whacks" in one panel.

I mean, how else would you display blur speed? By showing blurry after images like this?

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Because Backlash has done that too

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And moving at blur speeds isn't anything new for Damian wnyway.

1. That isn't combat speed, that is Damian running down a wall, whereas Backlash was hitting at blur speed. 2. Gravity was aiding Damian, accelerating him.

In regards to moving at the speed of thought, that's not even at the speed of sound so that isn't impressive.

Are you using human biology on an alien who dodges bullets? Because I am pretty sure one of my first statements was that Backlash was half-Kherubim.

Why Backlash Wins

Instead of rehashing my arguments, I will instead highlight why I think Backlash will win. Those reasons are 1. He is skilled enough to take on both Roy and Damian at the same time and easily beat either of them 1v1 like he did against Zealot

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1. Schooling thugs. 2. Schooling Zealot

2. He is strong enough to take out either Damian or Roy in a few blows, if not in one blow outright. Since he can break through bulletproof objects, and neither Roy nor Damian are bulletproof, and draw blood from mid tiers.

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1. Pierces a military APC. 2. Makes Savage Dragon bleed. 3. Punches through bulletproof glass.

3. He is durable enough to tank their attacks as he can tank large explosions and hits from said mid tier and even a high tier.

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1. Survives getting ragdolled by Helspont. 2. Takes a punch from Savage Dragon. 3-4. Tanks a massive explosion

4. He can Mist through any of their attacks and overwhelm them with attacks in mist form.

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1. Mists through a strike. 2. Dishes out a flurry of attacks while in mist form

5. He has virtually no disadvantages. You have only relied on your "massive" speed gap to try and dismiss the skill gap and Backlash's misting, but you have yet to display any real impressive combat speed showing to warrant that claim. Not to mention Damain's morals.

Arsenal

Roy will put immense pressure on Backlash through his vestarility, firing missiles, lasers, and arrows

Backlash dodged through a barrage of lasers, metal bolts and bullets with ease. I don't see why arrows will pressure him.

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that have tagged casual bullet timers.

You have only shown him tagging Chesire with a net arrow and he only tagged Parasite after Ms. Martian knocked him down.

And Backlash won't be able to evade all of this while fighting with the faster Damian Wayne.

He can evade all of that, he already has feats avoiding many more attacks. But he doesn't even have to thanks to misting.

You are trying to argue for Damian and draw attention from Roy

Trying? I would say that I have succeeded. Even at your last post, you won't be able to post any new feats for him so that's that.

and yet you have yet to show me anything that suggest he won't be tagged by Roy's arrows and weaponry while he is fighting Damian. And remember, Roy has pinpoint precision so he would be hard pressed to evade a hit from Roy

Roy hasn't tagged anyone as fast as Backlash, while Backlash has dodged a barraged of bullets and blasts from incredibly close distances

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TLDR Backlash wins because he is better in nearly every way. You tried for speed but you haven't shown any combat speed that surpasses Backlash's much less shown that you can blitz him. You're just a duo of rookies waiting to get schooled by the master.

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#35 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: I shouldn't have represented such an underpowered team. There are a variety of reasons I concede

  1. I can't bring up anymore Arsenal feats
  2. Damian Wayne's speed is hard to gauge and I don't think I can effectively gauge it after one post
  3. Etc.

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#38 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Yeah. That's why I was surprised you switched from Aqualad who is a legit high street tier. His electricity would be a good answer to misting as well.

Very well, I accept your concession. However, we do have 3 posts each so we can still open for vows if you wish, just to see how you did.

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Nah. Don't open for votes. I know I performed poorly. Sigh... If only you could go up against an anime character then I feel like I'd be much more of a challenge for you. If you have free time, I would like to have a rematch ASAP...

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#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: I have some time, but I am not in the mood for anime characters since I am already facing one. Also, you should slow your roll on those rematches. Lol. If you want, I can give you some pointers which I think will help you get better.

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#41 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Very well. However I am on a grind to get at least one win in a CaV so please accept my rematch if you have time LMAO

If you accept I would like to increase my live action debating skills by represent MCU Luke Cage and Black Panther

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Well, I think you should take a step back and analyze your debating strategy before going on to another match.

I don't know enough about Cage and I don't have anyone on Bp's level

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#43 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Well, I think you should take a step back and analyze your debating strategy before going on to another match.

Oh believe me I have. This CaV has taught me a lot

I don't know enough about Cage and I don't have anyone on Bp's level

Very well. I will represent New 52 DCAU Darkseid, or MCU Iron Man and Spider-Man

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#44 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: That was quick. Lol.

Very well. I may take on MCU Spidey if I find a good match. I have been scarred from my last MCU Iron Man CaV and I have no one for DCAU Darkseid

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#45 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Perfect. This time will be different lol. Can you just edit this CaV and we can both delete all our post since we were the only ones posting say for one person

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#46 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: I can't think of anyone to use yet. Also why not just make a new thread?

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#47 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: Actually, just tell me who you can rep and I will come up with someone

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#48 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio