• 78 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm Mandarin

No Caption Provided

@sirfizzwhizz Mothra

No Caption Provided

Mandarin is Comics and Mothra is Comics and Movies.

Death or KO.

Both have standard knowledge.

Start 50 feet apart.

Battle in here.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#2 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm

Intro

No Caption Provided

Behold Mothra. The Divine Moth. Mothra is guardian of Infant Island, and plays a major role often in the on going interactions between humans and Kaiju of earth. Mothra is both protector, and in many way damage control when humans feel the need to make really big mistakes in their battles vs other Kaiju, as well one of he few beings to warn or gather earth beings against the space threats of alien invaders and space monsters.

Strength

No Caption Provided

Mothra knocks GZ down during take off.

No Caption Provided

Bashes Godzilla down.

No Caption Provided

Drags Godzilla 20,000 tons a large distance.

No Caption Provided

Mothra is stated able to use her own strength alone change the course of a planet wrecking Asteroid.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo knocks out of the sky Dagahra.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mothra smashes Battara and destroys 100s of tons worth of rock formations from the battles.

No Caption Provided

Mothra smashes Godzilla into the ground.

I feel the need to just post random feats of strength. Mothra is strong as shit as a Kaiju, but her main attacks will rarely be physical. It will more focus on her various powers of energy attacks, psy abilities, wind, and powder attacks. But just to show off now the massive strength she can bring in a slam like attack. I also like to bring up her speed. She may look like some slow as giant moth, but truth is she is super fast.

Speed

No Caption Provided

Mothra stated to move at Mach 2 speeds.

No Caption Provided

Mothra effortlessly dodging Godzilla's atomic blast with an damage wing.

No Caption Provided

Mothra easily dodging high speed razor discs.

No Caption Provided

Mothra showing high speed light blur.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Mothra dodging Godzilla's heat beams multiple times in battles.

No Caption Provided

Mothra dodging at close range eye beams from Battara.

No Caption Provided

Mothra dodging multiple close range oxygen destroyer attacks.

No Caption Provided

Mothra blitzes Megagairus as a blur and keeps up fine with one of the fastest monsters in Toho.

This speed is more than enough to react and dodge energy attacks. As well fly around the battle field at high speeds.

Opener

I will cover more in durability and these other forms attacks as the battle starts in earnest. As of now I leave Mothra opening up fine a simple blitz and smash attack on Mandarin for a opener.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo propels at high speed and slams Desghidorah out of the sky.

Kinda like so here. So lets see what Mandarin has got.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#3 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for foxerdes
#4 Posted by foxerdes (10340 posts) - - Show Bio

Sweet.

T4V

Avatar image for helloman
#5 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#6 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mickey-mouse
#7 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36910 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmmm interesting...

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#8 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@lukehero: like your mums sweet bouncing bum :)

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
#9 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36910 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ouroborik
#10 Posted by Ouroborik (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy shit!

T4V

Avatar image for ouroborik
#11 Posted by Ouroborik (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: You have access to the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy?! I want that so badly!

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#12 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: 123 movies free online. Only way you can see it unless you score out of print DVDs.

BTW, not that good. The action is great, but the story and kid actors are cringe.

Avatar image for ouroborik
#13 Posted by Ouroborik (3822 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Alright, I assumed it would be something like that xD

Back in the day when I was younger, when Wikipedia had very detailed pages on the entire trilogy (which were edited out for some reason) and it was still possible to find some videos on Youtube, this was the Kaiju movie I fantasized the most about seeing.

Leo and his adversaries all had a shitload of powers from what I recall and then there was stuff like Cretaceous King Ghidorah and Aqua-Mothra, pure awesomness in my mind. I've now come to realize that maybe the movies are little known because they aren't that good but I'd still like to see them.

Avatar image for majinblackheart
#14 Posted by MajinBlackheart (9637 posts) - - Show Bio

This looks awesome. T4V

Moderator
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#15 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Post coming up soon. Will we be doing 3 posts each or 4 posts each?

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#16 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for anthp2000
#17 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28794 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that putting your characters' names in () instead of yours shows that debating is a CaV's priority for you here.

Pretty cool.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#18 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that putting your characters' names in () instead of yours shows that debating is a CaV's priority for you here.

Pretty cool.

Meh, my template for making CaVs for past 5 years.

Avatar image for anthp2000
#19 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28794 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I'm still going to look it that way like it or not lol

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#20 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I'm still going to look it that way like it or not lol

Thats fine. I think a CaV should be about the debaters more than the characters ;) So the intention is there.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#21 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I think this should be a good enough opening post.

No Caption Provided

The Mandarin

The Mandarin is one of Iron Man's greatest foes, he is an intelligent scientist, a master martial artist and a direct descendant of Genghis Khan. Although he may not look like it with his 10 rings of power, his wit and skill the Mandarin is truly a force to be reckoned with more than a match for the Iron Avenger or anyone who dares defy his rule (even the mighty Chinese army fears him).

Powers & Abilities

Here is a brief overview of the Mandarin's powers.

No Caption Provided

Now how powerful are his rings? To give you a better idea I will give you a feat each ring starting with the Ice Blast ring

The Ice Blast ring (or Zero). This ring is powerful enough to drop the temperature down to absolute zero in half a second, giving even Iron Man's suit troubles.

No Caption Provided

The Black Light(AKA Nightbringer). This ring can do two things, the first is create pitch black darkness and the second is to create Green Lantern esque constructs. Now how bad can Nightbringer blind you? Well in the scan below you can see that Iron Man is completely blinded by it, his scanners confirm that it blocks out all light even ultraviolet so it's safe to say that if Mandarin his Mothra with this he will be as blind as a bat.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As for constructs he makes pretty basic stuff like tendrils, but his constructs are strong enough to hold down Ezekiel Stane (another Iron Man villain).

No Caption Provided

The Mento-Intensifier (AKA the Liar). This ring provides telepathy for the Mandarin which he usually uses in the form of illusions but he can use it in other ways like mind wiping. Now you said that Mothra has psi powers as well so he could be immune to the ring's affects however if he has no feats suggesting he has resistance then he could be getting his mind wiped in seconds.

No Caption Provided

Disintegrator Beam (AKA Spectral). This ring ran turn Mandarin invisible and can blast through almost anything, although it is the only ring to have a recharge time (I think it is around twenty minutes of recharge time) it can be used many times until it needs to recharge.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As you can see Mandarin used it to blast through Tony's armour with ease, now his armour was essentially turned off here but it is still very durable.

As for the invisibility part according to Tony's data it warps the environment around the Mandarin to turn him invisible/disguised.

No Caption Provided

Electro-Blast (AKA Lightning). This ring isn't anything special since Mandarin uses the Impact Beam more but according to the scan above it taps electro-static energies on a planetary scale and he can summon lightning from the sky (it also has EMPs and such but I'd wager that won't do anything to Mothra) with it.

No Caption Provided

Vortex Beam (AKA Spin). This ring gives the Mandarin super speed/time dilation and allows him to create and control powerful winds. Just how fast does it make you? Well, when it was stated to give the user Quicksilver level speed so pretty darn fast.

No Caption Provided

And the winds generated are powerful enough to partly knock Iron Man (Rhodes) back.

Sorry for the size
Sorry for the size

Flame Blast (AKA Incandescence). This ring is pretty basic stuff, it can generate and shoot fire so hot that in the scan above the narrator described it as "Scalds the naked rocks as though a star had fallen on them." obviously there is some hyperbole but you can tell that the flames are pretty darn hot.

Impact Ring (AKA Influence). This ring will be the main offense, it has the power to shoot out a powerful impact beams that can KO Iron Man (Rhodes) or knock him thousands of miles away through a mountain.

No Caption Provided

White Light (AKA Daimonic). This ring can do a lot of things from blinding people to creating a gravity field. Now we already have the Nightbringer to blind Mothra if needed so I will focus on it's other uses (since TP illusions might not work) like the gravity field, the gravity field created is so poweful that it can be used to sink around man in to solid ground and by a lackey no less

Again sorry for size
Again sorry for size

Matter Rearranger (AKA Remaker). This ring is my key to victory because it can do two things, 1. Turn Mothra into stone. 2. Animate a mountain to fight for the Mandarin. Yes, both of these things have happened before.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Strategy

This is subject to change the more I learn about Mothra. The plan is to...

1. Dodge Mothra's opening blitz.

2. Blind him with Nightbringer.

3. Animate the rock structures with the Remaker.

4. With Daimonic and Spin aground Mothra (gravity field plus wind pulling down).

5. Weaken him with impact beams, Lightning and Flame Blast with the rock minions helping.

6. Finish him off with a Spectral blast to the heart or by turning Mothra into stone.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#23 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: I should have a post up tomorrow or the next day. Finishing up another project now.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#24 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

Counters

The Ice Blast ring (or Zero). This ring is powerful enough to drop the temperature down to absolute zero in half a second, giving even Iron Man's suit troubles.

This is a good ability. However two counters. One, Mothra can dodge it like Godzilla's own heat beam. Second, she could likely take the damage.

No Caption Provided

Kiryu absolute zero on Space Godzilla

No Caption Provided

Kiyru Absolute Zero on Monster Zero.

No Caption Provided

Kiryu absolute zero on Godzilla.

This Absolute zero attack dwarfs Mandarins as well by a good size and output. Mothra is a pretty tough monster. More so by Heisei and IDW feats. Absolute zero hardly one shots guys like Godzilla, Monster X, or Space Godzilla. I have a hard time believing the smaller in scale beam will affect or one shot badly Mothra.

The Black Light(AKA Nightbringer). This ring can do two things, the first is create pitch black darkness and the second is to create Green Lantern esque constructs. Now how bad can Nightbringer blind you? Well in the scan below you can see that Iron Man is completely blinded by it, his scanners confirm that it blocks out all light even ultraviolet so it's safe to say that if Mandarin his Mothra with this he will be as blind as a bat.

As for constructs he makes pretty basic stuff like tendrils, but his constructs are strong enough to hold down Ezekiel Stane (another Iron Man villain).

The Constructs seem way to small to be of any threat, and blinding Mothra is useless thanks to Mothra's psy abilities.

No Caption Provided

Mothra contacts Miki outside our Solar System with a warning after sensing Space Godzilla.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Mothra in the Manga contacting multiple humans from outside our Solar System after sensing Space Godzilla. They also read the intentions of the "spy" stating he is no spy.

No Caption Provided

Mothra detects the threats coming from space. Who and what they are. Then inputs that info into a human.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Mothra mentally transports a scientist to infant island to give info, after her ship sinks from a monster attack far away.

The Mento-Intensifier (AKA the Liar). This ring provides telepathy for the Mandarin which he usually uses in the form of illusions but he can use it in other ways like mind wiping. Now you said that Mothra has psi powers as well so he could be immune to the ring's affects however if he has no feats suggesting he has resistance then he could be getting his mind wiped in seconds.

Mothra has defended against decent Psykers already.

No Caption Provided

Mothra fends off the mind control of the evil twin psychics, and attacks them for their efforts.

Also honestly Mothra psy range and abilities > Mandarins. Not worried.

Disintegrator Beam (AKA Spectral). This ring ran turn Mandarin invisible and can blast through almost anything, although it is the only ring to have a recharge time (I think it is around twenty minutes of recharge time) it can be used many times until it needs to recharge.

As you can see Mandarin used it to blast through Tony's armour with ease, now his armour was essentially turned off here but it is still very durable.

So what is its best feat of damage? Mothra tank attacks that would easily damage a no shields, power off Iron Man suit.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Battara's beams can decimate large bridges with ease, yet Mothra shrugs off these blasts with no effort.

No Caption Provided

Godzilla heat beams do minor damage to Mothra.

No Caption Provided

Mothra survives Godzilla's nuclear pulse, and was shortly back in the fight.

No Caption Provided

Mothra taking a full on Heat Beam from Godzilla and is fine.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mothra survives this large fireball that destroys multiple city blocks with no sign of major damage.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo's mother, Mothra takes a powerful blast of energy to the body from Desghidorah fine. Said blasts can send flying 10,000 tons easy.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo here takes the energy blasts at point range several times, after having his wings shredded. Then blasted several more time only to escape in fighting shape still.

Mothra tanks that. The Spiral Ray from Godzilla is stronger.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

After two drag out fights with Mothra, Godzilla tries to end Mothra with a Spiral Ray attack, his strongest attack. Mothra survives the attack, and is still fight shortly after.

Mothra damaged but tanked it too. Mothra tank as well molecular level attacks in Oxygen Destroyer.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Oxygen Destroyer from Destroyah is the same stuff that killed the first Godzilla.

No Caption Provided

Mothra gets hit by the Oxygen Destroyer attack, a molecule level attack, and survives.

There is also again, the argument of dodging said attack. As i showed in post one her amazing speed and reaction to energy beam attacks. she will be 1000s of feet high most the battle. More than enough time to react.

As for the invisibility part according to Tony's data it warps the environment around the Mandarin to turn him invisible/disguised.

Mothra still has large AOE attacks and Psy. One useful ability would be her own electricity attacks.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo electrifying the river and the Kaiju within it.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo generating powerful line of electric blasts with his wings.

No Caption Provided

Mothra forcing a armored truck to stop. Attacks are also stated to be electrical in nature.

No Caption Provided

Mothra uses electrical energy to KO Megaguirus.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Mothra using electric attacks to pin down Monster Zero for hours straight.

Electro-Blast (AKA Lightning). This ring isn't anything special since Mandarin uses the Impact Beam more but according to the scan above it taps electro-static energies on a planetary scale and he can summon lightning from the sky (it also has EMPs and such but I'd wager that won't do anything to Mothra) with it.

Same arguments as above.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo caught in a electrified water cyclone. No damage.

This is likely the least effective ring.

Vortex Beam (AKA Spin). This ring gives the Mandarin super speed/time dilation and allows him to create and control powerful winds. Just how fast does it make you? Well, when it was stated to give the user Quicksilver level speed so pretty darn fast.

And the winds generated are powerful enough to partly knock Iron Man (Rhodes) back.

That is cool, but can he use multiple powers with the speed? any feats of that? otherwise I dont see how this ring at all be useful. As for winds, how powerful are the winds? Mothra will be using her trademark wind attack as well.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mothra main form of attack was powerful winds it generated that send flying vehicles, and even cause multi story buildings to collapse.

No Caption Provided

Winds powerful enough to send 20,000 tons of Godzilla back.

No Caption Provided

Winds powerful enough to send 20,000 tons of Godzilla back.

No Caption Provided

Mothra accurately targets only the top floors of this building.

No Caption Provided

Mothra blows down both Kumonga and Titanosaurus, combine around 40,000 tons damn near, with the wind attacks.

No Caption Provided

Mothra blows down Godzilla.

As seen they are insane strong and accurate.

Flame Blast (AKA Incandescence). This ring is pretty basic stuff, it can generate and shoot fire so hot that in the scan above the narrator described it as "Scalds the naked rocks as though a star had fallen on them." obviously there is some hyperbole but you can tell that the flames are pretty darn hot.

This be damaging to some degree. Heat damage is Mothra's worst type to tank, though the ring should be in the same level as Godzilla's heat beam. To which the argument again is Mothra dodging what she can, and able to tank more than a few hits. The argument then comes down to who can put down who first.

Impact Ring (AKA Influence). This ring will be the main offense, it has the power to shoot out a powerful impact beams that can KO Iron Man (Rhodes) or knock him thousands of miles away through a mountain.

This ring may not be that effective either given Mothra's blunt force feats.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo is slammed at high speed into a mountain, and them beat on. Mothra Leo was shown unharmed after all this.

No Caption Provided

Mothra tanks Godzilla's best physical hits and keeps on chugging.

No Caption Provided

Mothra gets choked by Destroyah, and slammed. Gets back into the fight with no sign of damage.

No Caption Provided

Mothra gets blasted by Monster Zero with such force to fly across the large city, through the bridge and skyscrapers. This is well after fighting a day non stop too, and given all that she still has fight.

There is the same argument of dodging as well.

White Light (AKA Daimonic). This ring can do a lot of things from blinding people to creating a gravity field. Now we already have the Nightbringer to blind Mothra if needed so I will focus on it's other uses (since TP illusions might not work) like the gravity field, the gravity field created is so poweful that it can be used to sink around man in to solid ground and by a lackey no less

This could be useful to sink Mothra, but Im not sure at all it be if use. What is Iron Man best "Lifting" feat in that older armor?

No Caption Provided

Drags Godzilla 20,000 tons a large distance.

No Caption Provided

Lifts and throws 25,000 tons of Godzilla.

Mothra is lifting 30,000 tons easy.

Matter Rearranger (AKA Remaker). This ring is my key to victory because it can do two things, 1. Turn Mothra into stone. 2. Animate a mountain to fight for the Mandarin. Yes, both of these things have happened before.

Probably the most useful ring. The biggest argument. So what my counter? few things. One, Mothra psy power would know about it thanks to her mind reading. Two, she can dodge it likely. Three, her own attacks will make this near impossible to work on her. Four, Mothra's own secret weapon is transmuting into energy.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo separates into mini moths to attack the very organs of Dagahra.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo uses mini moths form to heavily damage Desghidorah.

Unless it transmuted energy, I dont see why Mothra cannot cancel it out and reform after attack Mandarin with hundreds of powerful energy attacks sent his way.

This is subject to change the more I learn about Mothra. The plan is to...

1. Dodge Mothra's opening blitz.

2. Blind him with Nightbringer.

3. Animate the rock structures with the Remaker.

4. With Daimonic and Spin aground Mothra (gravity field plus wind pulling down).

5. Weaken him with impact beams, Lightning and Flame Blast with the rock minions helping.

6. Finish him off with a Spectral blast to the heart or by turning Mothra into stone.

As said, two thing may not work at all. Number 2 and 6 given Mothra's own abilities. As for Mothra strategy, she will attempt to crush Mandarin, and once that fails, take to the sky raining electric blasts, 30,000 ton wind gusts, and surprise mandarin with her Energy little moths form to counter the stone attack, and counter to blindness via her psy. Leaving a more one on one fight I think that favors her.

Im curious to durability feats Mandarin has for her as of now.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#25 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Cool. Never knew a moth could be so powerful, lol. My post might be a little delayed since I have to do a post in your tourney first but I should be able to post sometime next week.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#26 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#28 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for blackpantherisb
#29 Edited by blackpantherisb (7345 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#30 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#31 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:

I am not going to go through counters statement bu statement as I do think that some attacks would do very little to Mothra given her feats.

Counters:

One, Mothra can dodge it like Godzilla's own heat beam.

It isn't really a blast like the heat beam, if you take a look at the full scan the ring just engulfed Tony in absolute zero instantly.

No Caption Provided

While ring can be used tyo fire blasts, it can also freeze things over like in the scan above seemingly by simply lowering the temperature.

This Absolute zero attack dwarfs Mandarins as well by a good size and output. Mothra is a pretty tough monster. More so by Heisei and IDW feats. Absolute zero hardly one shots guys like Godzilla, Monster X, or Space Godzilla. I have a hard time believing the smaller in scale beam will affect or one shot badly Mothra.

Actually in your last scan Godzilla is knocked backed by the blast and screamed out in pain so it will affect him. The attack is just meant to slow down Mothra and ground him, not one shot or injure him.

The Constructs seem way to small to be of any threat, and blinding Mothra is useless thanks to Mothra's psy abilities.

Fair point however this won't be a loss for Mandarin as the blinding was just supposed to hinder Mothra as an extra advantage against her. He can do without it.

Mothra has defended against decent Psykers already.

I wasn't really planning on arguing this attack as I suspected that Mothra would be able to defend against this.

So what is its best feat of damage? Mothra tank attacks that would easily damage a no shields, power off Iron Man suit.

Actually it can hurt Tony through shields and armor (it was his stealth armor but still impressive), Tony even says that it hits as hard as anything ever could..

No Caption Provided

While Mothra has good durability in the scans that you show, there is a difference between those blasts and the one the Disintegration beam, mainly the fact that it rips you apart at the atomic level which requires a different type of durability in order to tank.

There is also again, the argument of dodging said attack. As i showed in post one her amazing speed and reaction to energy beam attacks. she will be 1000s of feet high most the battle. More than enough time to react.

Mandarin won't waste his beams if he isn't guaranteed a hit. That is why he only hits Mothra when she is down or if she is 1000 feet in the air teleport her back down like this.

No Caption Provided

Her size won't be an issue either as he can teleport an entire building away.

No Caption Provided

Mothra still has large AOE attacks and Psy. One useful ability would be her own electricity attacks.

If Mothra tries to use psy to detect Mandarin he will just engage her in a telepathic battle. And while Mothra is good, Mandarin has stalemated Psylocke

No Caption Provided

So I would argue that he is even better, meaning psy won't help Mothra find him. As for AoE, Mothra uses electricity which Mandarin can likely manipulate or he can dodge the blasts.

No Caption Provided

Here he redirects a IR's blasts point blank after they were fired and that is without him slowing time down.

This is likely the least effective ring.

Probably but Mandarin has 9 others he can use to beat Mothra. Also I can't see what is under the spoiler block in this part.

That is cool, but can he use multiple powers with the speed? any feats of that?

Yes. While another user (less skilled than Mandarin) slows down time to 0.001% he also blasts IR with darkness.

No Caption Provided

As for winds, how powerful are the winds?

I had a scan but this is a clearer version.

No Caption Provided

Even the armor was powerless against it. I would say this matches all your feats.

This be damaging to some degree. Heat damage is Mothra's worst type to tank, though the ring should be in the same level as Godzilla's heat beam. To which the argument again is Mothra dodging what she can, and able to tank more than a few hits. The argument then comes down to who can put down who first.

I am pretty sure than Mandarin is way faster than Godzilla and is thus harder to dodge.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Casual bullet timing without the ring

Also he uses most of his attacks with Mothra cannot dodge, either while he is in ice, in a gravity field, blowing winds or fighting Mandarin's golems.

This ring may not be that effective either given Mothra's blunt force feats.

Those feats are impressive but not enough to justify them as being ineffective. I am no Iron Man expert but I know that very few people can KO him and knock him back a thousand miles and those who can are powerful enough to hurt Mothra.

This could be useful to sink Mothra, but Im not sure at all it be if use. What is Iron Man best "Lifting" feat in that older armor?

I am not exactly an Iron Man expert (I read his comics a lot but I don't collect his feats and stuff) but keep in mind that in sunk him through the groud which is highly impressive. Also if not anything else if Mothra is constantly fighting gravity it would reduce her speed and make her an easier target that and combined with ice Mandarin can surely bring her down.

Probably the most useful ring. The biggest argument. So what my counter? few things. One, Mothra psy power would know about it thanks to her mind reading.

First Manadrin can defend his mind and second how does that stop it from working?

Two, she can dodge it likely.

No, Mandarin is faster than Zilla so he can tag her plus she is fighting gravity and ice while also being hit by Mandarin's other rings.

Three, her own attacks will make this near impossible to work on her. Four, Mothra's own secret weapon is transmuting into energy.

Not sure what the difference is, his powers work on gas and solid. It works on a subatomic level.

No Caption Provided

Even if it doesn't work on her energy form, as soon as she goes back to her physical form he will transmute her.

Conclusions:

The counters above also work as a defense to my own strategy so I decided to make a conclusions section instead. So far from what has been shown, Mothra's psy, electric and wind attacks are useless against Mandarin, her speed is a non-issue and her resistance isn't the type that is needed. Meanwhile Mandarin still has various ways to put her her down and even if she tanks everything, BFR isn't banned so he can teleport her to the moon as a last resort if need be.,

Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#32 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#33 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#34 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for emperorthanos-
#35 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Well there is a certain Boros vs Thragg cav you could do instead

Moderator
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Kek. I forgot about that, I will have a post up in a few days.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#37 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm:

It isn't really a blast like the heat beam, if you take a look at the full scan the ring just engulfed Tony in absolute zero instantly.

While ring can be used tyo fire blasts, it can also freeze things over like in the scan above seemingly by simply lowering the temperature.

It could engulf her, but there is still two concerns. Seems pretty close range for one, and how fast would it freeze something with a mass 50 times that of Tony for two.

Fair point however this won't be a loss for Mandarin as the blinding was just supposed to hinder Mothra as an extra advantage against her. He can do without it.

Ok.

Actually it can hurt Tony through shields and armor (it was his stealth armor but still impressive), Tony even says that it hits as hard as anything ever could..

While Mothra has good durability in the scans that you show, there is a difference between those blasts and the one the Disintegration beam, mainly the fact that it rips you apart at the atomic level which requires a different type of durability in order to tank.

Godzilla's heat beam and Spiral Ray are star levels in heat output. Steady heat too unlike the instant flash of a nuke. Those temperatures break atoms as well. So I think her durability holds up fine there.

Mandarin won't waste his beams if he isn't guaranteed a hit. That is why he only hits Mothra when she is down or if she is 1000 feet in the air teleport her back down like this.

Her size won't be an issue either as he can teleport an entire building away.

Ok, so he can teleport her to him or vice versa. That makes thing more interesting. At the same time could be beneficial for her wind attacks and electrical attacks. Due to the damage they do and range.

If Mothra tries to use psy to detect Mandarin he will just engage her in a telepathic battle. And while Mothra is good, Mandarin has stalemated Psylocke

So I would argue that he is even better, meaning psy won't help Mothra find him. As for AoE, Mothra uses electricity which Mandarin can likely manipulate or he can dodge the blasts.

Psylock Psy power never detected or read minds across the solar system either. Also that was a weaker Psylock IIRC. Even if its the Omega one, Mothra range in psy power dwarfs Psylocks own. So hard to say she is better.

Probably but Mandarin has 9 others he can use to beat Mothra. Also I can't see what is under the spoiler block in this part.

Nothing in the spoiler, just a typo.

Yes. While another user (less skilled than Mandarin) slows down time to 0.001% he also blasts IR with darkness.

This would be the best way to beat Mothra, but I still dont see a feat of Mandarin ever doing this himself. Just suggest the other character was smarter, or more imaginative in the use of the rings.

I had a scan but this is a clearer version.

Even the armor was powerless against it. I would say this matches all your feats.

Its a good blast. but one Mothra can survive more than a few hits from. The argument then comes if Mothra can beat mandarin before that and I say she could.

I am pretty sure than Mandarin is way faster than Godzilla and is thus harder to dodge.

Also he uses most of his attacks with Mothra cannot dodge, either while he is in ice, in a gravity field, blowing winds or fighting Mandarin's golems.

Godzilla is pretty fast. Mach speeds even.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Catches the missile tasers of Mecha GZ out of the air fine.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Hypersonic Rodan is countered by GZ when Rodan tries to finish him, and then right after that counter, GZ catches the G Force's supersonic ship at full throttle from escaping.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Godzilla casually grabs jets speeding by out of the air, accurately hits them with his tail, and catches them with his jaws.

No Caption Provided

Godzilla reacts and block a energy attack that has insane speed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Able to react to the Supersonic missiles of Mecha Godzilla after they are fired several times.

No Caption Provided

Dodges at point range Gigan's laser beams.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

In the movies Rodan and Battara are said to be Mach 5. In comics we seen both easily outpace fighter jets as well. We know both should be high supersonic as Rodan flight is so fast, he destroys a city by his flight path over it. Battara likewise keeps up with Rodan in their fight. Godzilla not only reacts to Rodan and Battara, but he catches Rodan in his attack flight, as well knocks Battara away with his other hand at the same time. Reaction at its best.

Best part of these feats is the fact Godzilla is 50-100 meters in these scans. the speed to move what seems to be the same speed of Mach 1-2 at that size is incredible fast.

Those feats are impressive but not enough to justify them as being ineffective. I am no Iron Man expert but I know that very few people can KO him and knock him back a thousand miles and those who can are powerful enough to hurt Mothra.

I know Iron Man armor type matters more for feats of how impressive. His older armores can tank at times "mountain" level attacks which Mothra tank easy as high ends. His other armores barely tank She Hulk blows or Namor blows which are well below Mountain levels. So that is up to if we want to use it as a high end, and that is fine if we do. As I said, Mothra on average can crumble or slam into mountains or tank mountain busting attacks and keep chugging.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

The beam cuts down to rubble a small mountain worth of stone.

No Caption Provided

Heat Beam shown to have Nuclear level power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Heat Beam is so powerful, it can bust through a force field empowered by the force of a black hole!

These attacks would wreck IM as well. mothra is able to tank multiple blasts of these and keep fighting, so I do think her durability is better than even Tony's high ends with older armor.

I am not exactly an Iron Man expert (I read his comics a lot but I don't collect his feats and stuff) but keep in mind that in sunk him through the groud which is highly impressive. Also if not anything else if Mothra is constantly fighting gravity it would reduce her speed and make her an easier target that and combined with ice Mandarin can surely bring her down.

True, making her struggle is decent tactic, but then Mothra could always break apart into energy Mothra's and fire dozens of beams. Reforming after.

First Manadrin can defend his mind and second how does that stop it from working?

By knowing of the attack, she can be aware of the specifics and when it might be use. With his Psy defense, sure, he can resist but like resisting Psylock, he was unable to attack then too.

No, Mandarin is faster than Zilla so he can tag her plus she is fighting gravity and ice while also being hit by Mandarin's other rings.

I dont see how he is faster. The distance GZ cover with a run is many times faster than Mandarin can. GZ has reacted to energy attacks and supersonic jets doing flies by's easy. As well supersonic monsters and missiles.

Not sure what the difference is, his powers work on gas and solid. It works on a subatomic level.

Even if it doesn't work on her energy form, as soon as she goes back to her physical form he will transmute her.

As soon he tries to transmutate, which was hardly instant, she can transform into energy form and unleash hell from hundred angles. Its a solid counter everytime he tries to do it while suffering a counter attack.

Final Thoughts

I feel Mothra is well above the older, even early 90s Iron Man in all ways for stats. Her hax is pretty useful, and most of Mandarins hax seems to have limited effect on smaller targets. I think his force fields would break well before Mothra's durability goes down too. Given the damage output of her casual blasts to any Iron Man up to even 2000s as comparison.

No Caption Provided

Mothra's energy beams cause Godzilla much pain, and enough damage to knock him over.

No Caption Provided

Mothra's beams harm Destroyah.

No Caption Provided

Mothra's beams are powerful enough to harm Godzilla.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo uses energy beams to blow off the tail of a younger King Ghidorah.

No Caption Provided

Mothra Leo able to blast several forms of energy attacks at once.

Her attacks damage even Godzilla in all forms of media, and Godzilla is nuke level casual. So in the end I feel Mothra will end this fight well before hand with her Hurricane like wind attacks, Godzilla harming energy beams, energy form, and raw strength with her slams.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#38 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Cool. I will try to get a post up in a week or so.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#39 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: I edited out the spoiler blocks that were empty. They carried over from when i copy and pasted you post.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Ah, I was wondering why some of them weren't opening, thanks. That was your last post right?

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#41 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters:

It could engulf her, but there is still two concerns. Seems pretty close range for one, and how fast would it freeze something with a mass 50 times that of Tony for two.

1. It didn't seem to be limited and I don't really see it as a problem. 2. It froze Tony instantly so I would say a few seconds is all that it would take.

Godzilla's heat beam and Spiral Ray are star levels in heat output. Steady heat too unlike the instant flash of a nuke. Those temperatures break atoms as well. So I think her durability holds up fine there.

If it wasn't described as atom destroying in the comics\movie then it requires different durability IMO.

Ok, so he can teleport her to him or vice versa. That makes thing more interesting. At the same time could be beneficial for her wind attacks and electrical attacks. Due to the damage they do and range.

He can simply teleport above her so that he won't feel the effects.

Psylock Psy power never detected or read minds across the solar system either. Also that was a weaker Psylock IIRC. Even if its the Omega one, Mothra range in psy power dwarfs Psylocks own. So hard to say she is better.

In terms of raw power Mothra could be better but in terms of skill and versatility Psylocke trumps her, howeve rmental combat is really all that matters in this comparison and Psylocke should be significantly better in that aspect as well.

This would be the best way to beat Mothra, but I still dont see a feat of Mandarin ever doing this himself. Just suggest the other character was smarter, or more imaginative in the use of the rings.

No, the Mandarin is more skilled and experienced with the ring, he never used the time slow because he is fast enough by himself to keep up with IR. The other users just took suggestions from the ring itself.

Its a good blast. but one Mothra can survive more than a few hits from. The argument then comes if Mothra can beat mandarin before that and I say she could.

Yes, Mothra can tank these blasts but the main point is Mandarin can counter her blasts. I think Mothra will go down first as the Mandarin will be attacking her in 10 fronts simultaneously.

Best part of these feats is the fact Godzilla is 50-100 meters in these scans. the speed to move what seems to be the same speed of Mach 1-2 at that size is incredible fast.

Well again Mandarin is a bullet timer without time slow with it, he could easily out speed Godzilla and thus be harder to dodge.

These attacks would wreck IM as well. mothra is able to tank multiple blasts of these and keep fighting, so I do think her durability is better than even Tony's high ends with older armor.

Your first feat is not all that impressive you are just cutting through rock and your second feat is good but nukes are far from mountain busting (as you said IR is mountain level, Namor is also mountain level and She Hulk is PIS), only your last scan is really impressive on paper but we don't know how strong a black hole empowered force field would be.

True, making her struggle is decent tactic, but then Mothra could always break apart into energy Mothra's and fire dozens of beams. Reforming after.

Then he just uses gravity field on her again when she reforms. She can only take a breather when she is in her energy state.

By knowing of the attack, she can be aware of the specifics and when it might be use. With his Psy defense, sure, he can resist but like resisting Psylock, he was unable to attack then too.

True, he will not be able to attack Mothra while she assaults his mind, however this works both ways it also stops her from learning anything.

I dont see how he is faster. The distance GZ cover with a run is many times faster than Mandarin can. GZ has reacted to energy attacks and supersonic jets doing flies by's easy. As well supersonic monsters and missiles.

As a said without the rings Mandarin is already fast enough to match GZ with it he is a whole lot faster.

As soon he tries to transmutate, which was hardly instant, she can transform into energy form and unleash hell from hundred angles. Its a solid counter everytime he tries to do it while suffering a counter attack.

But how will she know she is being transmuted? Her psy won't work and it is not something you can feel. Once she she notices her body turning into stone there will be irreversible damage.

Final Thoughts

Mandarin is too versatile for Mothra and can match her in almost all her attacks. He is also durable enough to tank at least one of her blasts.

No Caption Provided

Not that she can even get one in since he can hinder her a lot, teleport out of harm's way and counter the attack with his own fire and electricity blasts.

Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#43 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#44 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: this was a fun match against a character I never debated against before. Glad we did it. I will change OP to Votes when I get home.

Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#45 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Same. Didn't know anything about Mothra and this was very educational. I will tag the voters now.

Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#46 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for major_hellstrom
#48 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#49 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for votes on this fun CaV.

Avatar image for owie
#50 Posted by Owie (7210 posts) - - Show Bio

This was awesome. A matchup I would definitely never have predicted!

I'm familiar with both characters, and originally would have guessed Mandarin. But SFW persuaded me that Mothra would take it. His presentation of her durability, wind blasts, and the massive extent of her blasts made me feel that Mandarin would be overwhelmed, even though he is an extremely versatile and powerful (and underused) character. I think some of his more random powers might have given him routes to win; some of these were brought up but not really hammered home as much as they needed to be to overthrow my main mental image of Mothra literally blowing Mandarin away and then frying him with a valley-wide blast of electricity.

Very fun!