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#1 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

CaV: DCEU Doomsday VS. Meruem

Represented by Major Hellstorm
Represented by Major Hellstorm

V.S.

Represented by Streak619
Represented by Streak619

Rules:

  • Both fighters are in character/morals on but are serious.
  • Meruem gets wiki knowledge on Doomsday, Doomsday just know Meruem by reputation.
  • Battle ends in death/KO/permanent incap.
  • BFR is off.
  • Meruem is pre-Rose.
  • Standard gear, Meruem gets an Adamantium steak knife.

Battle Location:

Fighters start on opposite ends of the stream, 300 meters apart
Fighters start on opposite ends of the stream, 300 meters apart

Forward:

On a sidenote this CaV will be the last one on the Vine for a while. After this, win or loss, I will be leaving the Vine and will come back next year. I will finish up my other stuff too first.

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#2 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: cool, will have my post up in a day or too (sorry, have been really busy, and my device blacked out and wiped out my progress.

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#4 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Great. Sorry you lost your post, maybe you should copy it more to be safe.

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#5 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Edited by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by deactivated-5b466be4b5981 (3660 posts) - - Show Bio

Are they both pre nuke?

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#8 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#11 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Easternwind (4590 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#13 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

Edited by streak619 (568 posts) 16 hours, 25 minutes ago

Meruem

No Caption Provided

"I will create a world so fair, that the very concept of inequality will be forgotten!"

Background music: The Last Mission

Loading Video...

Character Background

Meruem, the one above all, the supreme being, the king among kings. This Chimera ant is at the top of Chimera royalty, boasting the pinnacles of authority and power, besting that of even the greatest leaders. A ruthless, cruel, Just, and apathetic monster, with a thirst to consume the greatest beings that live upon his kingdom, known as Earth.

Did that sound majestic and scary? Bet it did if you read it with the background music. :)

Stats

Strength:

Can pulverise superhuman's head before it realises, with the slightest effort:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Pulverised rock, a lot of it:

No Caption Provided

To give you a rough and vague idea of how impressive this is:

Meruem's height: 5/3 meters (I'm estimating him to be atleast 5 feet tall)

Diameter of the hole =~ 3 x Meruem's height ~= 5 meters.

Length of the hole: it looks atleast 5 meters or so if we judge by the angle the 'camera' is, but I will lowball it to 3 meters.

Volume of a cylinder:

(pi)x(r^2)x(l)

= 3.14 x 2.5 x 2.5 x 3

=58.875 mc (meter cube)

or 58875000 cc

amount of energy required to pulverise rock = 214 J/cc.

amount of energy required to pulverise 58875000 cc of rock

= 58875000 x 214

= 12599250000J

Or 12.6 x 10^9 J

Or 3 tons of TNT which is building + DC.

Therefore even flicks of Meruem's tail is building + DC.

Anyways.

Moving on:

Uvogin, a vastly inferior character to Meruem, was capable of this:

No Caption Provided

Calc:

https://imgur.com/7JGwCQS

red line : diameter

orange line: height

purple line: His height

We will use average human height, or 1.7m if you can find something saying he is taller, please do.

His height takes up around 60 pixels, I made the line a bit longer because he was crouched a bit

So

60px =.17 m

Diameter = 679 px

Height= 200px

679/60 = 11.3x

200/60 = 3.333

11.3x1.7=19.21

3.33x1.7=5.66

Gives us a dome Volume of

Plug that in here:

http://www.monolithic.org/calculators/dome-calculator

You get

1093.62 m^3

Convert that to centimeters^3

1,093,000,000

and then like before

Pulverized : 214 joules per

Vaporized 25,700 joules per

Pulv:

233902000000 joules or

55 tons of TNT ( Solid MCB level, town level is 1000 tons )

credits to @easternwindfor calc.

So Uvogin is at 55 tons of TNT of DC.

Ok now I'm going to use some scaling.

We know that even Knuckle is less than ten percent of Youpi:

Loading Video...

@1:54

We also know that Uvogin, the guy in the punching gif, isn't too much superior to Knuckle.

Knuckle< 1/10 x Youpi.

Uvogin >= Knuckle.

Meruem >> Youpi. ( A character as strong as Meruem stomped a character as strong as Youpi)

Meruem's DC>> 10 x Uvogin's DC.

Meruem's DC>> 10 x 55 tons of TNT

Meruem's DC >> 550 tons of TNT (half town level)

Meruem's DC > 2 x 550 tons of TNT.

Meruem's DC > town level.

Therefore Meruem's Dc is much above town level.

Speed:

No Caption Provided

Massively inferior character is low supersonic:

human fps rate : 60 (lowball)

length of the room : 10 meters approx (scaling from phinks's hieght.)

in order to be invisible while moving across the room, he would have to do it before the human eye can take a single frame, ie in 1/60 seconds

speed = d/t

= 10/ 1/60

=600

= mach(600/340)

= mach(1.7)

which is supersonic

this is the calc. The version of the character in the gif is <<< Meruem.

That means Meruem is very likely high supersonic.

This next one is the cream:

No Caption Provided

Moves FTE when bullets moved like slugs.

This is hypersonic + and MHS at max, but I will be lowballing.

This character is Cheetu who is inferior to Meruem even in Speed, putting Meruem at hypersonic +.

Durability:

Tanked a nuke and barely survived.

No Caption Provided

Reduced to burnt road kill, This is one aspect where Meruem is inferior to Doomsday by a considerable gap.

Meruem tanked thousands of large building - city block busters:

No Caption Provided

And barely felt dull pain, This shows Meruem has more than enough durability to tank Doomsday's heat vision, explosions and even strikes.

Intelligence:

Meruem beat world champions, country representatives who are at grandmaster level, in many board games such as Chess, Shogi, Go etc, in the first week of his life.

Even Kasparo, who is regarded to be one of the greatest chess players to have ever lived, and has an IQ of 190, wouldn't in his dreams accomplish such a feat. This is a minimum of 300+, probably far more. Seeing as how Sherlock Holmes is considered to be 190+.

Meruem owns this attribute with a landslide.

Nen Techniques:

Ten: The user brings out his life energy to cloak himself as protection from external force, and other aura.

Ren: This is basically the DBZ power up thing, except here there is no power boost and it is practically of no use in a battle

Ken: A superior version of Ten.

Ko: The user concentrates all his aura in a single part of his body, to increase it's durability and DC.

In: The technique with which you make your life energy invisible to the normal eye.

Gyo: The technique with which you can see invisible life energy, by concentrating your life energy in your eyes.

En: The technique, where one expands their life energy outwards in a dome shape, one knows the position and velocity of everything inside, it is basically SONAR.

Ryu: This technique is basically when the user is constantly changing how much aura any part of his body has in order to increase it's durability and DC, for striking and parrying.

Zetsu: Allows user to hide his aura, and conceal themselves completely.

Shu: Can amp any object, that they're directly in contact with, with their life energy such that the object's durability and DC become vastly superior.

Nen ability: His Nen ability allows him to become stronger when consuming a body with large amounts life energy. He can also take on the physical abilities and mutations of whatever he consumes.

No Caption Provided

Conclusion: Why Meruem wins,

-Meruem has considerably superior speed.

-Meruem has just as much, if not more, physical strength and striking power.

-Meruem is galaxies ahead of Doomsday in terms of intelligence.

-Meruem with the help of Ko at max power at the tip of his tail, should be able to decapacitate or atleast severely harm Doomsday.

-Meruem has a much better, intuitive and logical fighting style.

-Meruem rocks.

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#14 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: This won't be long since Doomsday doesn't have too many feats.

No Caption Provided

Doodmsday

Doomsday is the big bad from BvS and is a resurrected General Zod.

Strength:

In terms of strength you have shown that Mereum can fight superhuamans and destroy buildings with his tail. That is fine and all (although you don't have to calc all of your feats and you kinda relied on scaling) but Doomsday is stronger than Meruem still. As you can see in the video below, Doomsday has shown to be significantly stronger than Superman who struggled to deflect a punch from one of Doomsday's arms using his entire body.

Loading Video...

And Superman by himself is strong enough to contend with Meruem, as shown in his fight with Zod where they were causing buildings to crumble and the city to fall unintentionally as the result of their battle.

Loading Video...

Speed:

I really disagree with the way that you showed zero Meruem feats here and relied on scaling but if I were to take your word for Meruem's speed I can still say that Doomsday is fast enough to consistently tag him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

As you can see above Doomsday has no problem tagging and stopping Supes who is traveling at high speeds. Earlier in the fight Supes carried Doomsday into outer space in seconds, that requires a speed of mach 22.9 (or 4.9 miles per second) and just for reference being hypersonic means you are at mach 5-10. If you want a more tangible feat however, here is Superman saving Faora from getting stabbed by the mighty soldier man blitzing Faora as she was about to strike (and Faora should be at least nearly as fast as Zod and Clark).

No Caption Provided

Durability/Regen/AoE Blasts:

These are all in the same category because 1. I will show one video which demonstrates them all 2. They are all connected in some way (DD can only use his AoE when he is badly damaged).

Loading Video...

As you can see from the video above Doomsday tanks a nuke point blank then falls back to Earth from outer space yet is unfazed. So yeah, Doomsday is definitely superior to Meruem in this regard.

Conclusions:

It seems that Doomsday is comfortably above Meruem in strength and durability while being fast enough to tag him in a fight (contrary to what you said). Doomsday also has powers Meruem does not like heatvision and flight (which I will get into next post), while Meruem is smarter and has Nen, you haven't really shown why that will be a factor yet.

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#17 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

Strength:

In terms of strength you have shown that Mereum can fight superhuamans and destroy buildings with his tail. That is fine and all (although you don't have to calc all of your feats and you kinda relied on scaling)

I did rely on scaling, but it is pretty solid. And no Meruem isn't at building level he is a casual town buster.

And Superman by himself is strong enough to contend with Meruem, as shown in his fight with Zod where they were causing buildings to crumble and the city to fall unintentionally as the result of their battle.

So this is supposed to hurt Meruem how? He tanked thousands of hits and then felt pain.

three strikes were capable of this:

No Caption Provided

three of those strikes together are hill busters or close. He tanked thousands of them and felt a dull pain. Doomsday is gonna have to use all of his power, and I mean all of his power to kill Meruem.

To add to his strength, Meruem ripped his own arm of with casual easy, they way I pluck a fruit:

No Caption Provided

It took a nuke to destroy his arm, and look at him.

Also generally when I read through your post I get the feeling that you're treating Meruem as a building buster, so here:

Loading Video...

Spoiler alert though.

@1:50

Adult Gon is at Meruem's level as stated by Pitou (the cat girl), and Pitou herself is a royal guard of Meruem and is at the same level of Youpi, also a royal guard.

If you watch the fight, you'll know that Gon >> Pitou in everything, he was casually godstompingher.

Easily Gon >> 2 x Pitou.

hence Meruem >> 2 x Youpi.

So no, I disagree with he notion that Doomsday has superior striking power. He has so far shown only MCB feats which isn't impressive by Meruem's standards.

Speed:

I really disagree with the way that you showed zero Meruem feats here and relied on scaling but if I were to take your word for Meruem's speed I can still say that Doomsday is fast enough to consistently tag him.

I'm sorry about that. There is, in my defence, only one fight where Meruem fights and while it does have speed feats, they're perfectly unquantifiable without making a dozen or so assumptions.

You have good speed feats, though the travelling to space thing has no time frame, but it makes sense for superman to be that fast. That still isn't enough to tag or manoeuvre the likes of Meruem, who is superior to characters that above the hypersonic range casually, which is what hypersonic + means. I have also shown that this is consistent when an untrained kid was moving at mach 1.7.

So while Meruem may not be fast enough to outright blitz and move FTE for the likes of Doomsday, he is faster undoubtedly.

Durability:

As you can see from the video above Doomsday tanks a nuke point blank then falls back to Earth from outer space yet is unfazed. So yeah, Doomsday is definitely superior to Meruem in this regard.

Indeed, however, with Ko, where he can concentrate all of his life energy into a single part of his body, the durability of that single part, increases dozens of times and that is superior to DD's durability. Just wanted to throw that out.

How Meruem wins:

Meruem does not have enough firepower as a nuke, he has less than a 50th of it, however I believe he can surpass the pressure provided by the nuke's explosion.

As discussed earlier, Meruem can inflict strikes, with the help of Ko, which have DC of town level. And the strategy to win is simple. Focus all that energy through the tip of his tail.

As I proved earlier, his tail was casually at large building level DC, without Nen techniques, meaning just his raw muscle power.

With Ko he reaches town level +, if he were to use Ko at the tip of his tail instead of his arms, he would be focusing town level + energy through what is essentially a knife.

that is 1100 tons of TNT + through micrometer square areas. Which, even with his durability, should do incredible damage. As is visible in the scans I posted in my opener, the reach of his tail is several meters easily, so he doesn't even need to get close to Doomsday.

With this sureshot method, Meruem would be launching hundreds of town level knife strikes per second, more than enough to damage considerably the likes of Doomsday. Combined with his high intellect that allows him to instantly develope a fighting style that would allow him to deal with his opponent's advantages and disadvantages appropriately.

With an adamantium knife, The pressure of the blows must be even greater since Adamantium has little to no elasticity and it's tensile strength is off the charts.

Thus with the help of Nen techniques, a dagger (if required), superior intellect and speed. Meruem will win an encounter b/w them.

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#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

Counters:

Strength:

I did rely on scaling, but it is pretty solid. And no Meruem isn't at building level he is a casual town buster.

Mostly solid. Except for the way you got to town level which was through statements and your own calcs.

So this is supposed to hurt Meruem how? He tanked thousands of hits and then felt pain.

Actually it only said hundreds of thousands of blows were exchanged between them

No Caption Provided

Which means blocked hits, dodged hits etc. all count. And that is assuming the statement is even correct.

three of those strikes together are hill busters or close.

Where's the hill? And how is that only three strikes? This scan happened right before that one

No Caption Provided

And that looks way more than 3.

He tanked thousands of them and felt a dull pain. Doomsday is gonna have to use all of his power, and I mean all of his power to kill Meruem.

I am willing to bet that if 100,000 blows were exchanged a good chunk of that came from this initial attack (manga version was above). And each individual attack from that golden statue did not seem to be all that powerful.

To add to his strength, Meruem ripped his own arm of with casual easy, they way I pluck a fruit:

It took a nuke to destroy his arm, and look at him.

Durability against physical attacks does not equal durability against energy attacks. That scan isn't really impressive.

Adult Gon is at Meruem's level as stated by Pitou (the cat girl), and Pitou herself is a royal guard of Meruem and is at the same level of Youpi, also a royal guard.

Again, statements without any backing from feats.

If you watch the fight, you'll know that Gon >> Pitou in everything, he was casually godstompingher.

Easily Gon >> 2 x Pitou.

hence Meruem >> 2 x Youpi.

So no, I disagree with he notion that Doomsday has superior striking power. He has so far shown only MCB feats which isn't impressive by Meruem's standards.

Where is Gon doing anything town level? You can't be basing everything on calcs, right?

Speed:

I'm sorry about that. There is, in my defence, only one fight where Meruem fights and while it does have speed feats, they're perfectly unquantifiable without making a dozen or so assumptions.

Post them still please. Sometimes (most of the time) feats don't have to be quantify, sometimes they speak for themselves.

You have good speed feats, though the travelling to space thing has no time frame, but it makes sense for superman to be that fast.

Watch the nuke video. It shows Superman travel to space in real time, plus I used base based of rockets so no time frame is needed. But just for fun, here is a GIF of Superman and Zod going in to space in seconds.

No Caption Provided

That still isn't enough to tag or manoeuvre the likes of Meruem, who is superior to characters that above the hypersonic range casually, which is what hypersonic + means. I have also shown that this is consistent when an untrained kid was moving at mach 1.7.

Manover? No, Doomsday wouldn't even do that if he could. Tag? Easily, Doomsday would easily be able to tag Meruem. Hypersonic plus is like mach 15, DD is mach 22.

So while Meruem may not be fast enough to outright blitz and move FTE for the likes of Doomsday, he is faster undoubtedly.

In terms of agility and combat speed Meruem may be faster, in terms of everything else, they are equals or the opposite is true.

Durability:

Indeed, however, with Ko, where he can concentrate all of his life energy into a single part of his body, the durability of that single part, increases dozens of times and that is superior to DD's durability. Just wanted to throw that out.

Only to a single part. The rest of him should end up being vulnerable which would not work out well for Meruem.

Conclusion:

Doomsday is pretty much superior when you take Meruem feats and compare them without calcs and statements. As for your strategy Doomsday can blast you away with his AoE if you damage him too much.

No Caption Provided

And while it isn't nuke level in DC (which would OHKO you) it is still pretty darn powerful. Alternatively Doomsday could just fly up and blast you with his HV if your strikes do end up overwhelming him.

No Caption Provided

Also, just a side note but Doomsday has dealt with indestructible swords before in Diana's sword (which he was weak to because it had magic). But DD was able to regrow the limbs Diana managed to cut off in the form of a bone spike.

No Caption Provided

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#24 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Edited by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Lol. I'll wait till tommorow next time, I promise.

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#27 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

Finisher

Strength:

Mostly solid. Except for the way you got to town level which was through statements and your own calcs.

And yet you are unable to find a single flaw with it. Unless you do so, you cannot assert that DD is stronger. You showed me a few feats that barely push into MCB even after a generous scrutiny. I have backed up and considerably lowballed all my calcs giving them far more credit than they would be without such things, which is already plentifully credible seeing as how it is mathematically flawless.

My point being; Meruem is irrefutably stronger.

Actually it only said hundreds of thousands of blows were exchanged between them.

Which means blocked hits, dodged hits etc. all count. And that is assuming the statement is even correct.

A narrator's statement is basically author's word

Also:

Loading Video...

There isn't a single dodge, he clearly stated several times that Netero's Guanyin Bodhisatva(The statue) and Netero's prayer movements were far faster than himself. His core strategy involves directly tanking them, all of them. The only time he dodged was when he took of Netero's limbs.

Where's the hill? And how is that only three strikes? This scan happened right before that one

Looks like I got overconfident on knowledge of the details, I think I will concede that point, though the number of hits don't make a difference, point is it wiped out everything within the AOE of a hill. Even if I were to concede to building level or so, that is still thousands of buildings busted over the entire fight, all of that on Meruem's body. And he began to feel a dull pain.

And each individual attack from that golden statue did not seem to be all that powerful.

Point is the arms were almost moving faster than Meruem could properly react, the speed as well momentum therefore should be massive.

Durability against physical attacks does not equal durability against energy attacks. That scan isn't really impressive.

never said it did, just said that he ripped his arm of when a nuke couldn't vapourise his shoulder or forarm and that is impressive. Even if I massively lowball this and cut to 1/100 of the power of the nuke this would still be MCB+. Seeing as how MCB force is less than a thousandth of a city vaporising nuke.

Besides, nukes still work on physical power, heat is nothing but kinetic energy that a nuke uses to vapourise things. It is a lowball if you believe that ripping a part of his body that a nuke couldn't completely destroy isn't impressive.

Again all of this is meaningless because I have established in concrete that Meruem is town level.

Speed:

Post them still please. Sometimes (most of the time) feats don't have to be quantify, sometimes they speak for themselves.

It's up. It isn't quantifiable since many parameters required to calc it aren't scalable or mentioned.

Watch the nuke video. It shows Superman travel to space in real time, plus I used base based of rockets so no time frame is needed. But just for fun, here is a GIF of Superman and Zod going in to space in seconds.

they went to space in two shots, and hence a time frame isn't to be assumed. There is no evidence that the there was no passage of time b/w the 2 cuts, though it is likely that it wasn't too much time, your speed arguments are on shaky grounds.

Manover? No, Doomsday wouldn't even do that if he could. Tag? Easily, Doomsday would easily be able to tag Meruem. Hypersonic plus is like mach 15, DD is mach 22.

We were shown a reference frame where bullets moving at 1 cm/s and Cheetu moved FTE in the same reference frame, he basically moved invisibly fast when even bullets were clearly and perfectly visible, the average bullet moves at mach 2.

This farr beyond mach 22, at the very least. ( a lowball)

The gap in their speed is similar to the gap in durability. If not greater.

So no, DD is not tagging Meruem easily. to say the very least.

Only to a single part. The rest of him should end up being vulnerable which would not work out well for Meruem.

Yes, which is perfectly fine seeing as how DD has only one omnidirectional attack, which he doesn't regularly use

Durability:

Doomsday is pretty much superior when you take Meruem feats and compare them without calcs and statements.

Take away the calcs? You do realise the calcs tell us how good a feat is? Taking away a calc means you're ignoring how good a feat actually is and judging it by how good you think it is.

As for your strategy Doomsday can blast you away with his AoE if you damage him too much.

He can, and Meruem will tank it, the Aoe of those explosions are MCB+ at most, Batman was able to survive it without damage, just by putting up some cover, I think it is safe to assume Meruem will too.

Conclusion:

Meruem is stronger, and that is undeniable, your only argument here is the is the apparent incredibility of my argument, when all I have literally done is : amount of rock destroyed x energy required to destroy a unit of amount of rock.

And said that a massively superior character can do what an inferior character could do with ease.

My strategy still stands. Meruem at max power can surpass the pressure offered by a nuke, by virtue of his tail as well as an Adamantium knife.

With sufficient time as well as appropriate counters that he will formulate with his high intellect, Meruem will win.

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#29 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Sorry your tag got burred. Will try to post later today.

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#32 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by deactivated-5a0f185dd5b37 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: He's a perma-banned troll who's been spamming multiple threads lately. As difficult as that may sound, it's better to just ignore his childish attempts.

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#34 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkmundus:

wow, lol, can you even call this trolling? It is worse. It is almost as if he is trying to tag people but doesn't realise that just typing their user names in text isn't going to tag them lol. Plus he's new right? He has like 2 posts..

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#35 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: I got 100+ tags in the weekend. This guy account hops.

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#36 Edited by deactivated-5a0f185dd5b37 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619 said:

wow, lol, can you even call this trolling? It is worse. It is almost as if he is trying to tag people but doesn't realise that just typing their user names in text isn't going to tag them lol. Plus he's new right? He has like 2 posts..

It does tag them and while this specific account might be new, the person isn't it. He was once @whoisthebest but now is probably the biggest annoyance here(WITB was already unbearable irritating before though).

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#37 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619 said:

wow, lol, can you even call this trolling? It is worse. It is almost as if he is trying to tag people but doesn't realise that just typing their user names in text isn't going to tag them lol. Plus he's new right? He has like 2 posts..

It does tag them and while this specific account might be new, the person isn't it. He was once @whoisthebest but now is probably the biggest annoyance here(WITB was already unbearable irritating before though).

Don't be too sure about that.

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#38 Posted by deactivated-5a0f185dd5b37 (173 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

Final Counters:

Strength:

And yet you are unable to find a single flaw with it. Unless you do so, you cannot assert that DD is stronger. You showed me a few feats that barely push into MCB even after a generous scrutiny. I have backed up and considerably lowballed all my calcs giving them far more credit than they would be without such things, which is already plentifully credible seeing as how it is mathematically flawless.

My point being; Meruem is irrefutably stronger.

Flaw? Your entire argument was based on a statements. That on itself is a flaw. If we use statements and calcs as fact then here is my calc for Doomsday's strength.

As you can see from the video below (6:30) Superman is stated to have continent level strength. And the statements comes from a news article so it is more credible than a random statement.

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So already Superman is leagues above you but wait, Doomsday is stronger than him so we take Superman's strength and make it 50% stronger which means Doomsday is at 33 sextillion tons of strength.

A narrator's statement is basically author's word

Nope. A narrator's statement is sometimes there just to hype up the action. Case in point the famous statement of Sentry having the power of a million exploding suns

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Which is obviously untrue. Or this lesser known example of Spidey casually leaping at mach 1+

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And while Spidey can move at those speeds. I highly doubt he can leap frog at those speeds.

There isn't a single dodge, he clearly stated several times that Netero's Guanyin Bodhisatva(The statue) and Netero's prayer movements were far faster than himself. His core strategy involves directly tanking them, all of them. The only time he dodged was when he took of Netero's limbs.

Ah, thank you. This at least proves you are hypersonic.

Looks like I got overconfident on knowledge of the details, I think I will concede that point, though the number of hits don't make a difference, point is it wiped out everything within the AOE of a hill.

Where did you get the hill idea?

Even if I were to concede to building level or so, that is still thousands of buildings busted over the entire fight, all of that on Meruem's body. And he began to feel a dull pain.

Which is quite impressive, yes. But even if we take the number seriously, over the course of this fight Doomsday will constantly be dishing out damage and healing while Meruem will keep sustaining damage.

Point is the arms were almost moving faster than Meruem could properly react, the speed as well momentum therefore should be massive.

It looks like he could react actually. It just overwhelmed him with numbers.

Speed:

It's up. It isn't quantifiable since many parameters required to calc it aren't scalable or mentioned.

That's alright.

they went to space in two shots, and hence a time frame isn't to be assumed. There is no evidence that the there was no passage of time b/w the 2 cuts, though it is likely that it wasn't too much time, your speed arguments are on shaky grounds.

Okay 1. What two shots? It is claer that it took 1 or 2 seconds for them to travel there. 2. You might havee missed the part where I gave Supes base speed of a rocket, using no calcs.

We were shown a reference frame where bullets moving at 1 cm/s and Cheetu moved FTE in the same reference frame, he basically moved invisibly fast when even bullets were clearly and perfectly visible, the average bullet moves at mach 2.

This farr beyond mach 22, at the very least. ( a lowball)

How? If bullets are mach 2 and he was 10 times faster he would be mach 20.

The gap in their speed is similar to the gap in durability. If not greater.

Agreed. At this point I don't know what edge Meruem has.

So no, DD is not tagging Meruem easily. to say the very least.

It's up to the voters now.

Yes, which is perfectly fine seeing as how DD has only one omnidirectional attack, which he doesn't regularly use

Yeah but his fist is the size of Meruem's head and his HV can engulf Supes' body.

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Durability:

Take away the calcs? You do realise the calcs tell us how good a feat is? Taking away a calc means you're ignoring how good a feat actually is and judging it by how good you think it is.

Exactly. Authors don't give a darn about calcs, they draw what they think is impressive, they do what they want without thinking about science. Calcs are fine, but need to have clear feats that back them up for them to be viable (if if you have a town level+ calc you would need at least a clear town level feat).

He can, and Meruem will tank it, the Aoe of those explosions are MCB+ at most, Batman was able to survive it without damage, just by putting up some cover, I think it is safe to assume Meruem will too.

It earlier destroyed parts of buildings around it. So Batman's cover should be amazingly strong or that scene was just PIS (and let;'s be honsest Batman doing anything at all to DD is PIS).

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Conclusion:

My conclusion remains the same.

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#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: 1 small post each? You brought some new things that I would like to address.

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Finisher

Strength:

Flaw? Your entire argument was based on a statements. That on itself is a flaw. If we use statements and calcs as fact then here is my calc for Doomsday's strength.

How is using statements flawed? My statement has been consistent with everything depicted so far.

A statement is only flawed if it is contradicted on panel.

As you can see from the video below (6:30) Superman is stated to have continent level strength. And the statements comes from a news article so it is more credible than a random statement.

There is no time frame. Unlike my statement, the implications of yours are contradicted many times, it makes no sense for a quintillion toner to have MCB+ striking power. No to mention this is very likely a highly amped version of supes.

Nope. A narrator's statement is sometimes there just to hype up the action. Case in point the famous statement of Sentry having the power of a million exploding suns

Exactly,the statement was cotradicted by what was already established and hence is not credible, in my case what is established supports my statements.

Ah, thank you. This at least proves you are hypersonic.

No, it supports my hypersonic claim, I already proved Meruem is hypersonic. And those are hill busters together because they were destroying everything within a hill AOE

Which is quite impressive, yes. But even if we take the number seriously, over the course of this fight Doomsday will constantly be dishing out damage and healing while Meruem will keep sustaining damage.

This more of a conclusion, than an argument which i will address later.

Speed:

Okay 1. What two shots? It is claer that it took 1 or 2 seconds for them to travel there. 2. You might havee missed the part where I gave Supes base speed of a rocket, using no calcs.

Well, I only have a problem with the first part, it isn't clear in anyway. They show us Zod spearing supes to outer space in 2 scenes, first scene is where supes is hovering midair and Zod drags him upward and second scene is then reaching space. We don't know the time that passed b/w those two scenes. Do you have any evidence that ten seconds didn't pass b/w those to scenes?

How? If bullets are mach 2 and he was 10 times faster he would be mach 20.

What? Mach 2 bullets were moving at cm/s speeds, you think that a mere mach20 is enough to move invisibly fast, in the same reference, when those bullets were clearly and perfectly visible? this much, much faster than that.

It's up to the voters now.

indeed.

Durability:

Yeah but his fist is the size of Meruem's head and his HV can engulf Supes' body.

true, but it isn't damaging Meruem to a severe or considerable degree.

DC:

Exactly. Authors don't give a darn about calcs, they draw what they think is impressive, they do what they want without thinking about science. Calcs are fine, but need to have clear feats that back them up for them to be viable (if if you have a town level+ calc you would need at least a clear town level feat).

But it is unfair to completely dismiss it, the way you seem to be doing, and i did lowball estimations literally everywhere.

It looks like he could react actually. It just overwhelmed him with numbers.

Maybe a bit, but there is a scene where Netero finishes his prayer movement before Meruem could barely budge a muscle, midair.

That's alright.

Thank you.

It earlier destroyed parts of buildings around it. So Batman's cover should be amazingly strong or that scene was just PIS (and let;'s be honsest Batman doing anything at all to DD is PIS).

more than just destroyed. It was melting the buildings around it. And yeah literally every batman feat ever is PIS lol. But even if i concede that particular sub-point. It shouldn't be enough to oneshot or stop Meruem.

Conclusion

My conclusion remains the same.

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#44 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Done, I feel like we've both said all we can, but do go ahead and post your last post

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#45 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio

And voting starts once you're done, pretty much.

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#46 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18042 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: It's cool. Do you want me to counter your post or nah?

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#50 Posted by Streak619 (8057 posts) - - Show Bio