CaV: Luffy (Delein ) vs Zoro (Drax5343)

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Luffy (Delein)

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Zoro (Drax5343)

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Rules

- Manga feats for both (up to chapter 1034)

- both are IC but can go all out without holding back

- Location: Wano's rooftop (indestructible)

- Taep if you want to be tagged after every post, T4V if you want to be tagged once we've finished.

- 1 opener + 3 counters, standard CaV rules.

-This is a CaV therefore any negative outside interference or derailing of the thread will not be tolerated, remember your vote should be based on which debater gave the better arguments/counter-arguments and provided reasonable evidence not who you personally believe would win, if you vote be prepared to explain your reasoning in detail or it will not be accepted.

@drax5343 here. Beef aside, I've got 2 tourneys to work on so it will take a bit to post. Wanna go first or second?

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@antimagicku@pr03 deleted for mistake the thread ( wanted to click full edit, I missclicked), just tagging you to remember your taeps.

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Drax5343

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I'll start

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Drax5343

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#6  Edited By Drax5343

Introduction

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Roronoa Zoro. The one who dreams of being the very, very strongest, with strength that reaches the very heavens. He has promised to never lose. Destined for greatness.

10 minute timer

Perhaps Luffy's biggest weakness is G4's 10 minute time limit. Zoro merely has to survive for 10 minutes, after 10 minutes Luffy will KO himself and be completely at the mercy of Zoro. In a 1v1 with no allies to help you out G4 is a really bad idea.

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After he used G4 against Doffy and Kaido after a few minutes he passed out and was completely helpless. Having to be protected by both the civilians of dressrosa and Zoro respectively. G4 is just not suited to 1v1s without allies nearby.

This is a massive disadvantage as we know from Kaido vs Yamato (which went on for 20 minutes) and Big Mom vs Marco (which went on for at least 3 chapters which should be at least 10 minutes), Jozu vs Aokiji (which went on for a prolonged period of time) and Marco vs Kizaru (which went on for a prolonged period of time) that even Yonkos and admirals cannot beat beat strong characters within 10 minutes so Luffy's chances of beating Zoro within G4's time limit are very low.

Especially since Zoro is known for his endurance- remaining standing after being reduced to a near death state in TB-

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And being able to continue fighting after having several bones broken from Hakai-

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There is simply no way Luffy is going to be able to put him down within the time limit of G4.

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Kaido even says that AdCoC users are among the handful of very strongest people in the world so Zoro should at least be as strong as Yamato or Marco who have lasted more than 10 minutes against stronger foes than Luffy. Battles between top tiers have been known to last for days, a 10 minute time limit is suicide.

But does Zoro need G4 for Luffy ? Yes I think he does.

Base Hyozou managed to tank an attack from G2 without taking any damage-

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Yet an amped Hyozou was effortlessly stomped by Zoro. If Hyouzou was G2-tier in base, he was probably G3 tier in his amped form. At the very least this proves Zoro is leagues beyond G2 Luffy.

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Zoro also did more damage to Pica's Golem with a casual air canon than Luffy did with his strongest G3 attack.

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Zoro also one-shotted Killer while nerfed- (while Killer's ap was probably lower than normal due to not having his signature weapon his durability should not have been affected)

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The same killer tanked a named attack from Big Mom

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Which means a nerfed Rengoku Onigiri > a named attack from Big Mom.

Big Mom easily overpowered G4 Luffy's Kong Gun with just her elbow

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While you could argue that Luffy has gotten stronger since he did some of these feats... so has Zoro. He has gotten AdCoA via Enma and AdCoC and as I will discuss later AdCoC should be as big a power multiplier for Zoro as it is for Luffy if not more so.

Rooftop feats

Furthermore I believe Zoro may even be stronger than G4 Luffy based on feats on the rooftop.

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A full power barrage of Ryou-imbued G4 barely did any damage to Kaido at all. He gets up immediately afterward.

By contrast, Zoro with one of his weakest moves- Tatsumaki (which he used against fodders in Fishman Island) does just as much damage if not more to Kaido-

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If this is what low-level Tatsumaki can do, imagine one of Zoro's stronger moves like Sanzen Sekai or Crossing Six Paths. A low-level attack from Zoro is at least as powerful as an all-out barrage from G4 Luffy.

While since then Luffy has got AdCoC which has likely multiplied his attack power... so has Zoro ! It has probably multiplied his attack power just as much as it did Luffy's. Which means a tatsumaki from Current Zoro is likely at least as powerful as an all out G4 barrage from Current Luffy.

Zoro's durability is also impressive- while Luffy did tank Boro Breath Zoro tanked Big Mom's god of lightning attack which is likely more powerful.

He also blocked a combo attack from Big Mom and Kaido for a few seconds which he would not have been able to do if he wasn't at least somewhat competitive to either of them individually.

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Keep in mind that neither Kidd nor Law felt they could block Hakai with their awakenings with which they damaged Big Mom more than she was in decades. And Zoro is now much stronger than before and his blocking ability is much higher because of AdCoC which was enough for Luffy to go from arguably losing to Katakuri to fighting evenly with Kaido.

Zoro also went on to parry 3 attacks from Kaido, outspeed him and then scar Kaido while in a near-death state, something neither Shanks nor Roger were able to do during their respective fights with Kaido-

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Law was in complete awe of this which means it was something far beyond anything he was capable of doing, even with his awakening, with which he wounded Big Mom more than she had been in decades.

And consider that a healthy AdCoC Zoro should be leagues beyond a near-death rooftop Zoro.

Willpower

Rayleigh has said that the power of a person's conqueror's haki is determined by their spirit and Zoro's spirit and willpower is as great if not greater than Zoro.

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Let's look at some of Zoro's willpower feats.

  • He willingly took all of Luffy's pain and even KOed Sanji to prevent him from doing so, thinking he'd die, throwing away his own dream for his friendship to Luffy and then after surviving simply said that nothing happened. This is one of the greatest feats of willpower in all of fiction, forget about all of manga, forget about all of one piece.
  • Zoro promised to become the very very strongest for the sake of his friend Kuina and dedicated his life to this goal
  • He promised he would never lose after the Mihawk battle but then put his own ego aside to ask for tuition from Mihawk
  • He argued with Luffy and prevented him from letting Usopp back on to the crew as a matter of honour
  • He ate the rice balls the little girl had made for him and enjoyed them just out of a sense of honour
  • He let himself get beaten up by Bellamy's gang even though unlike Luffy he had no idea why they were doing it, he just did it out of loyalty to his captain, now that is willpower.
  • He tamed Enma with pure willpower.
  • His dream is basically the swordsman equivalent to Pirate King. I bet if Kuina would had wanted to be Pirate King Zoro would have managed to end up becoming PK. In a world of people with crazy DFs and Ds and literal gods he has risen to be one of the strongest characters with only hard work and dedication despite being a normal human.

His willpower and spirit is on the same level as Luffy if not stronger.

Future Sight ?

One argument that my opponent is sure to bring up is that Luffy has future sight so Zoro will not be able to hit him. Not only does Zoro have massive AOE attacks like Tatsumaki and the air cannons, Future Sight in verse is not treated as some unbeatable power. (I'll ignore the fact that Zoro once predicted where rocks were going to fall before they did, which may have been an example of future sight). Kaido and Big Mom don't even have it, yet Kaido had no trouble keeping up with Luffy 1v1 and landing hits on him. Zoro was able to keep up with Kaido and even outsped him using dead man's game. Big Mom has poor CoO and is not especially fast but she is superior to Katakuri. Akainu has Future sight does that mean he'd stomp Kaido or BM ?

Future sight is not an insta-win which is why some of the strongest people in the One Piece verse such as Big Mom and Kaido do not have it. Future Sight was an interesting idea for one arc but Oda seems to have forgotten about. Law doesn't have it, Kidd doesn't have it. A lack of future sight is clearly not as big of a detriment as some people think it is. It's a interesting ability but it can be countered. Sanji could dodge Kata's jelly bean and a fodder from Bege's crew could block it, which means that FS isn't flawless, it doesn't always work or Kata would have never fired the jelly bean knowing it would have been dodged/blocked.

And that is is assuming that Zoro doesn't learn it during his fight with Luffy. Zoro has demonstrated the ability to learn new abilities during the heat of battle such as breath of all things against Mr. 1 and AdCoC against King. Luffy was able to learn future sight during his battle with Katakuri, what is stopping Zoro from doing the same, just put Zoro in Luffy's place and Luffy in Kata's.

Blades vs Melee

Blades have universally been portrayed as having much more attack power than blunt attacks even with characters of the same power. Zoro has won most of his fights in the series with one hit- whether it be against Mr. 1, Kaku or Ohm or Killer. Melee fighters on the other hand have to use hundreds of attacks to put down their peers.

Katakuri hit Luffy over 100 times during their fight and failed to do any real injury.

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Katakuri did more serious damage to Luffy with a single blow from a bladed weapon than he did with all of his blunt attacks combined. That means the same character's bladed attacks are leagues above his blunt attacks.

It'll take several attacks for Luffy to put down Zoro while Zoro just needs one good hit to defeat Luffy. If Zoro slit Luffy's throat, cut off his head or his arm or sliced open his brachial artery Luffy will be defeated instantly. https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/89752-the-danger-of-slashing#:~:text=The%20Brachial%20artery%20runs%20along,as%20little%20as%2090%20seconds. (a cut to the brachial artery can lead to death within 90 seconds)

Blunt attacks are decidedly less lethal. Kaido took down the scabbards who were much weaker than him with named attacks yet none of them died or received any serious injury and got up and are now running around happily.

Kaido's thunder bagua also did relatively little damage to Law in comparison to Doffy's strings which cut off his arm.

Blunt attacks have universally been portrayed as much less effective than bladed attacks in the One Piece verse.

Brute Strength

Zoro also has some of the most impressive feats of brute strength in the One Piece verse.

Such as cutting Pica- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CinCameron20/Pika_Statue_(potential_Zoro_and_Pika_upgrade)

And cutting the horn of Onigashima- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DemonGodMitchAubin/One_Piece:_Zoro_Cuts_Onigashima_Horn

Luffy by comparison barely destroyed a few city blocks with his KKG. While AdCoC may amplify this remember that Zoro has AdCoC too so his earlier feats will also be amplified.

Conclusion

  • G4's 10 minute timer is a massive liability in a 1v1 fight. To beat Luffy Zoro just has to survive for 10 minutes.
  • Luffy needs G4 to compete with Zoro.
  • Zoro is arguably stronger than even G4 Luffy
  • Zoro's willpower is equal to if not greater than Luffy.
  • Future Sight is likely not a significant factor in battles and even if it is, Zoro can easily learn it.
  • Blades users have a massive advantage against Melee users
  • Zoro arguably has more brute strength than Luffy.
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@drax5343: that was quick ngl, it will take me as I said some time to post due to work. Arguably somewhere in the middle of next week. Good work.

@antimagicku@pr03 Drax's opener is up

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#10  Edited By ProfessorNobody
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great opener, this is getting spicy

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TAEP

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#14 jurrian09  Online

Taep

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#15 socajunkie  Moderator

Tag.

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TAEP

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OMFG.

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Tyrannosaurus Apocalypse Eternal Pootang

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taep lol

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Jesus christ this is actually a thing?

TAEP

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Woro

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#27  Edited By JCKobolt

Discount Pirates of Caribbean. I sleep.

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So since my opponent has failed to respond within 3 weeks I assume I win by default ?

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@drax5343 said:

So since my opponent has failed to respond within 3 weeks I assume I win by default ?

I had issues with an user who kept spamming in my PM's, the Medaka NSFW spammer don't know if you know him. Given that even after blocking him more than 50 times in a couple of days he kept going on I switched to this account deactivating my main one. Didn't forget about this but I work during the week so I didn't have the time to keep in touch with others here on CV. If you can wait 3-4 days I'll post, been busy between work and dealing with that user.

If you need a more concise explanation (quoting a PM I sent to another user:

"the Medaka nsfw spammer started spamming in my PM with multiple accounts for weeks, given that even after blocking alt after alt he kept going on, I decided to create a new account so that he'd stop. He already made that shit tons of posts where he tagged me and other people to spam the same crap but it wasn't an issue given that after 10 messages he always deactivated and the notifications would get erased. If that wasn't all he started doing the same crap on Discord so there too I had to change to my other account, that's about it." So let me know.

In case swap my nick old nick with this current one.