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#1 Edited by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio
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Rules and Stipulations

  • Everyone is morals on, but fully serious
  • Tatsumaki and Black Sperm are willing to work together
  • Tatsumaki and and Black Sperm have manga and webcomic feats
  • King has manga and anime feats
  • Standard gear for everyone
  • Starting distance is 30 meters
  • Vote based on who you thought debated better, not the characters you personally think would win
  • Fight takes place here, an "island in the sky":
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Is it good like this, @vsw?

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#2 Edited by KeyChain (661 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this was King from OPM, I was confused at first lol.

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#3 Edited by rhistr (367 posts) - - Show Bio

For a second there, I thought it was gonna be King from OPM vs those two. Of course, that would have been a stomp in King's favor, but this matchup makes it less 1 sided. Interested to see what's debated about this.

TV4

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#4 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: Do you want to go first, or...?

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#5 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Sorry didn't get the tag in the OP, but it looks good, could I get anime feats as well please?

Depends, When do you think you can get your post up? Though I'd Prefer if you'd do, but I can get one up this weekend

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#6 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@hittheassasin: Sorry didn't get the tag in the OP, but it looks good, could I get anime feats as well please?

Depends, When do you think you can get your post up? Though I'd Prefer if you'd do, but I can get one up this weekend

Are there some over the top feats or scaling I'm not aware of in there? If not, sure.

I'd probably take a bit longer than that, so I'd prefer it if you went first, if that's okay.

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#7 Posted by cromulor (1534 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear I thought this was King from OPM at first but this is good.

T4V

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#8 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: well for the anime, Tatsumaki gets another Mountain to Mountain+ feat, as does Genos. That's fine, right?

And alright, expect my post soon!

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#9 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@hittheassasin: well for the anime, Tatsumaki gets another Mountain to Mountain+ feat, as does Genos. That's fine, right?

And alright, expect my post soon!

It should be fine.

I'm looking forward to it!

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#11 Posted by Chronicplane (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for every post please, interested to see where this goes.

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#12 Posted by shirso (3153 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

Online
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#13 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (1088 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice.

T4V

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#14 Posted by KingCrimson (4676 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: This is an uphill battle you have yourself here mate. Good luck.

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#15 Posted by Richubs (1970 posts) - - Show Bio
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When a black guy nuts inside.

(Had my phone zoomed in and this is what I saw so posted this.)

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#16 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Ive been wanting to have an Actual Debate with you for quite a while Now, So i Managed to get this up relatively Fast, so i hope its a Good Read. And i have to give credit where its due, and Thank @darthjhawk for Inspiriting me With the formatting(I Say Help, but i really mean Im Borrowing a tiny, tiny part of it, Hope that doesn't Piss you off. Though don't worry, its a One-off because its a 2v1), anyway without Further Ado, Lets Get into it. Ill be trying this new Format to try and Make things tidier, As a 2v1 could get messy. Anyways, Im rambling On.....

Note: Ill be referring to Black sperm as BS through this post, and Tatsumaki as Tats, so... Yea. And i hardly remember anything from NNT, So if i get something wrong(Which i will), pls Forgive me lol.

Ill Break this post down into 5 Parts:

- I: Tatsumaki | Stats,Powers and Versatility

- II: BS | Stats, Powers and Versatility

-III: Preliminary Counters To King

-IV: Strategy

-V: Conclusion

I: Tatsumaki | Stats. Abilities. Flexibility.

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Telekinesis

Lets Start on Breaking Tatsuamki's Telekinesis into 3 separate parts, Range/radius, Telekinesis Strength, and Techniques.

Range/Radius

Now, When i Say Radius, i simply mean, How far Can Tatsuamki use here Telekinises? What her Radius? Well the Furthest distance we've ever Seen Tatsuamki Use her telekinesis on is when she Summons a Meteor out of Space(Madaras Style). Now we don't know exactly Where the Meteor came from(Could have been the Moon, or just a random astroid), However, seeing at it came from Space is automatically Tells us that the Meteor Travelled 480km as it Travelled Through Earth's Atmosphere, In other Words 480,000 Meters, or almost 300 Miles. This is absolutely Insane as it could allow Tatsuamki to BFR Chastiefol when Needed, But more on that is Section III:

The Gif isn't perfect, Im Sorry, But it showcases Tatsumaki's ability Very well. | One punch Man Episode 11
The Gif isn't perfect, Im Sorry, But it showcases Tatsumaki's ability Very well. | One punch Man Episode 11

Telekinesis Strength

By Strength, i mean How Strong Tatsumaki's TK Actually is. Now One of Tatsumaki's Best Feats is Lifting the Monster Association Base 1500 Meters out of the Ground. Now the Monster association Base is Comparable to the Size of the City Z's Multiple Sky Scrapers:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
(ONE) Chapter 90
  • Scan 2: Shows Fubuki Stating Tatsumaki is going to lift the Base out of the Ground
  • Scan 3: Shows Tatsumaki Lifting the Base
  • Scan 1: Shows The Finished result of Tatsuamki's Handiwork.

Now, the Monster association base is Comparable to the size of multiple Skyscrapers/Buildins in City Z. Now, i count around 25 or So Building(its pretty hard to tell with ONE'S Art style) But the Average Skyscraper weighs 220,000 Tons(Google), So times 25, That gives us 5,500,000 Million Tons as an estimate. This is pretty Damn Impressive, as it means Tatsuamki is a Multi-Million Tonner already, which'll be very handy in this fight, by again, More on that in Section III. For now lets take a Look at some of Tatsumaki's Other feats Like Stopping around 26 (Thats what i counted) Boat sized Bomb Shells, This is an excellent showing, as it doesn't just showcase Her TK Strength, But also Shows he can React to Multiple projectiles instantaneosuly:

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Chapter 34

Tatsumaki also Uses this ability to Sends Barrages of Rocks at Her Opponents:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
(ONE) 103.003

Hell, After Recuperating from BRAIN Damage, She Literally splits the Ground Open and Drop Saitama Several meters, before Closing it again, Pretty Casually:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Chapter 104

Now The last Showing ill Be showcasing on Tatsuamkai's Raw strength is her feat of Bring down the Meteor i mentioned Earlier, and Causing a Mountain+ Sized explosion or so. As you can see Below, the Ancient King is big Enough that he compares to the size of Mountain, Below you'll see Him Dwarfing a Small Hill, like it beryl comes up to his ankle, Meaning that Ancient King Himself is about Large Hill Sized. Well, The crater Tatsumaki Makes absolutely Dwarfs The Ancient King, Meaning it was Around Mountain Sized or So(Likely Larger):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Episode 10
  • Scan 1: Shows AK Standing next to some Small Hills, absolutely dwarfing them(Making him at least large Hill sized)
  • Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki calling the Meteor down and the end result of it, a Huge crater Dwarfing AK Body.

Techniques

When i say Techniques, i mean Specific abilities Tatsumaki uses her Powers for. She Uses this in 2 main Types of Techniques when it Comes to TK, Auto shields and Life Force Manipulation.

Life Force Manipulation

By Far Tatsumaki's Most Powerful Technique(And her go to method of execution). Basically, Everyone(Even Non Physics) Have a certain energy flowing within Them. Some call it Chi, Or Aura etc etc, the name doesn't really matter, however what is important is that Tatsumaki can Control it, essentially use it to Break and Rip the Neck/Body parts of whoever She's Fight, As Shown Below. This is Tats Most dangerous technique, that could Very well Oneshot King, as he Lacks Regenerative feats in order to suggest he can regrow his head:

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  • Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki explaining this ability
  • Scan 1: Shows Tatsumaki using it.

Physic Whirlwind

As explained very well by Fubuki, Espers have Linear Waves Basically, and some Espers can manipulate there waves in Order to disrupt the Telekinesis abilities of there Enemies. I can't Remember if King Uses Telekinesis to control his Spear, but i do know he's used it Before, but its essentially worthless Now:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Please Read in order of Scan 3,4, 2 then 1.

This should be Enough, For Now, On Showcasing Tatsumaki's TK, However there a few thing which i haven't mentioned that i will bring up later if Needed.

Speed

Everyons Fave Calc!

(Note: Only reason I'm using it is because Muruta specifically gave us the Speed the sword was travelling):

Atomic Samurai (S Class rank 4 Hero) Managed to completely Dice someone before a blade(which was right next to) his Neck could kill him. The Blade itself was travelling at supersonic speeds:

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This feat has been calculated multiple times, and no matter who(or how) these people calculate the feat ,In Order to Cut someone 41 times before a supersonic blade a few inches away from your neck cuts you, the Speed result is always Above Mach 900, Even Higherpower Calculated this and got Mach 900, And this was the assumption That the monster was travelling at Mach 1..... . The monster(forgot his name) even said before he transformed into a monster he was already was faster than sound, and now thats he's a monster he's quite faster, meaning that this Calc was lowballed. This already puts AS Above Lightning(which is mach 268) by a lot, Yet we see Black sperm react to a Surprise atack( a SURPRISE attack) From AS:

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Now, you may be asking yourself, what does any of this have to do with Tatsumaki? Well, She Manages to React to 10,000 Black Sperm Clones..... At Once. This is an absolutely Insane Showing of her Speed, I Mean C'mon, 10,000?:

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(ONE) Chapter 79

Tatsumaki should solidly Be able to React to King, as they should be at least On Par with each other in this regard.

Durability

Now, Tatsumaki being the Most Powerful Esper in her Verse, has the ability To Put up Telekinesis Shields. These are Automatic and Pretty Strong. While Having Brain Damage, These Shields Protected her from 8 Hits(Thats what i counted) From Golden Sperm:

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  • Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki has acquired Brain Damage
  • Scan 4-3: Show Tats Tanking the Hits
  • Scan 1 and 5: Show Tats Being Alright, having a Barrier Put Up.

Now if your wondering How Strong each of these hits are, Golden Sperm is basically an amped Version of Black Sperm. Ill talk about this More in his own section, But Golden Sperm is 10,000,000,000,000 Black Sperms Combined. How Strong is a regular Black Sperm? Well he managed to Rip Genos arm off, and Genos Body previously Tanked a Blow from Carnage Kabuto:

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  • Scan 1: CK Hitting Genos, He did get 'Knocked out' for a brief second, But his Body Remained almost completely Unharmed
  • Scan 2: Black sperm casually Ripping his arm off.

How Strong is Carnage Kabuto you might ask? Well His BREATH Repeled Genos Mountain Level attack, Meaning it should be Mountain+. And if CK Breath is mountain+, Then his hits must be at least the same level of strength. I Mean, Blow of something, and then Hit it, and you'll see the difference in Power. So Seeing as Black Sperm ripped of Genos arm(His body has Mountain+ Durability), Then Black Sperm Must be on the higher end of Mountain+ As well, Meaning Golden Sperm(Who is a combo of 10 Trillion cells) Should be around the Lower end of Multi-Mountain:

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  • Scan 2 and 1: Show Carnage Kabuto Repeling Genos Attack with his Breath, so his hits should be on the same level as his breath, Mountain+.
  • Scan 3: Shows Genos evaporating a Mountain.

So Tatsumaki's Best feat is Tanking Several Mountain+/Multi Mountain Hits from Golden Sperm, while having Brain damage. She can also Deflect attacks when she wants, Pretty nifty Seeing as king is a Long range fighter:

(ONE)Chapter 71
(ONE)Chapter 71

II: Black Sperm| Stats. Powers. Flexibility.

Cloning Abilities and Capabilities

Imagine the Most Hax Mid tier you can think off. Now through that Image out the window, Because Black Sperm has that guy Beat.

The easiest way for me to explain This is, Black Sperm is essentially an entity who has 11 trillion Cells inside him. If he's Hit, cut, Stabbed, Burned etc etc, he'll just Multiply casually. In order to Kill Black Sperm, You have to Kill every single one of the 11 Trillion Cells:

Chapter 74
Chapter 74

Heres a Great example of Black Sperms multiplying capabilities, When Fighting AS, for a while he just stands still and lets him hit him, which Does Absolutely Nothing, except Multiply Black Sperm Further:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
  • Scan 4: Black Sperm explains this ability
  • Scan 1,2,3,5,6 and 7: Atomic Samurai being an idiot, and continuing to Slice Black Sperm like its gonna do something Lol.

Now if you thought Black Sperm can only Multiply when he's attacked, your wrong. As seen below, Black Sperm can casually Eject 10,000 Clones from himself when he wants to, and Unlike Naruto, These Clones Are Just as strong as the Original. So Imagine, King has to deal with 11,449,001,712,554 MHS+, Mountain+ Clones. At Once.

Chapter 79| Too OP Pls nerf.
Chapter 79| Too OP Pls nerf.

But next lies Black Sperms true abilities. He can Merge his Clones together to make even more powerful Black Sperms, however these cannot multiply if attacked, They're vastly More powerful to a regular Black Sperm. BS Can combine 10 Trillion of these things Together in order to create Golden Sperm. Ill Make a seperate section for Golden sperm at the end, to keep things more simple.

The scariest part is, If Black Sperm merges into Golden Sperm, He'll still have 1 Trillion Cells left.

Strength

How Strong is a regular Black Sperm? Well he managed to Rip Genos arm off, and Genos Body previously Tanked a Blow from Carnage Kabuto:

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  • Scan 1: CK Hitting Genos, He did get 'Knocked out' for a brief second, But his Body Remained almost completely Unharmed
  • Scan 2: Black sperm casually Ripping his arm off.

How Strong is Carnage Kabuto you might ask? Well His BREATH Repeled Genos Mountain Level attack, Meaning it should be Mountain+. And if CK Breath is mountain+, Then his hits must be at least the same level of strength. I Mean, Blow of something, and then Hit it, and you'll see the difference in Power. So Seeing as Black Sperm Ripped of Genos arm(His body has Mountain+ Durability), Then Black Sperm Must be on the higher end of Mountain+.

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  • Scan 2 and 1: Show Carnage Kabuto Repeling Genos Attack with his Breath, so his hits should be on the same level as his breath, Mountain+.
  • Scan 3: Shows Genos evaporating a Mountain.

Speed

Atomic Samurai (S Class rank 4 Hero) Managed to completely Dice someone before a blade(which was right next to) his Neck could kill him. The Blade itself was travelling at supersonic speeds:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This feat has been calculated multiple times, and no matter who(or how) these people calculate the feat ,In Order to Cut someone 41 times before a supersonic blade a few inches away from your neck cuts you, the Speed result is always Above Mach 900, Even Higherpower Calculated this and got Mach 900, And this was the assumption That the monster was travelling at Mach 1..... . The monster(forgot his name) even said before he transformed into a monster he was already was faster than sound, and now thats he's a monster he's quite faster, meaning that this Calc was lowballed. This already puts AS Above Lightning(which is mach 268) by a lot, Yet we see Black sperm react to a Surprise atack( a SURPRISE attack) From AS:

(ONE) Chapter 63
(ONE) Chapter 63

Durability

When it Comes to Blunt force and Piercing durability, Black Sperm's is almost non-existent, because he just Multiplies from any and everything. As seen Below, Atomic Samurai Slices him into several pieces, to no avail:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
(ONE) Chapter 63

Blunt force doesn't harm him either, as He's Hit by Bang, which does absolutely Nothing:

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Now, Bang is strong Enough to Oneshot Fuhur Ugly in his final Form. A Weaker Version of Fuhur Ugly tanked a Kick from Genos:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Chapter 72

Now, Genos has a really impresive Feat in the Webcomic of destroying a Cliff face, and in the manga we get a direct comparison between the cliff face and a Mountain, So His striking should be solidly Multi-CityBlock+, Making Bang around City Level. In the Top half of this Scan you'll see the comparison between the Mountain and Cliff face(Manga), in the Bottom half you'll see what Genos destroyed(Webcomic):

No Caption Provided

As For Energy attacks, Black Sperm Tanked a Blast from Genos, and as I've already disclosed in earlier sections, Genos is Mountain Level:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Scan 1-2: Genos fires a Blast at Black Sperm
  • Scan 3: Genos is a Mountain buster

Golden Sperm

Now, As i mentioned earlier, Black Sperm can merge his Cells together in order to become stronger. Well, he's Merged 10 Trillion Cells together before, and the result is...... GOLDEN SPERM. Once 2 cells Merge, they can no longer multiple/split apart, So Black Sperm looses that ability. But instead, what he gains is much greater:

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(ONE) Chapter 80
  • Reverse order

Now, The Biggest advantage BS Gains in this form is Speed, He blitzes Tatsumaki 8 times before she can realise, and previously Tatsuamki reacted to 10,000 MHS+ Black Sperm Clones(I Showcased this in the Tatsumaki speed section) in whats probably one of the most badass Scans in the Webcomic:

(ONE)Chapter 80
(ONE)Chapter 80

And being a merge of 10 Trillion clones he should have at Least Multi-Mountain striking(Seeing as Black storms Mountain+) and Mountain level energy durability (Scales to Black Sperm), However, His blunt force is absolutely Insane, He tanks a Hit from Pre awakened Garou:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
(ONE)Chapter 81

Now if you're wondering how strong PA Garou is, He managed to beat the crap/hurt DarkShine, Something Bang Couldn't do(Ive previously showed Scans of Ban being City Level in the Durability Section), So Garou should be Mountain level Minimum at this Point:

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  • Scan 2: Darkshine stating him and bang fought, and he didn't get any severe damage
  • Scan 1 and 3: Garou beating the crap out of Darkshine.

TL;DR: Golden sperm is Multi Mountain striking, MHS+, Mountain level blunt force durability and Mountain level energy durability

Though for this fight, ill have BS Start unfused.

III: Dealing with King | Preliminary Counters

Here ill just be addressing some of the Things that will most definitely come up later.

Disaster

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Kings most deadly Technique, and while Tatsumaki has no direct Counter to it, all she has to do is Not get Hit by the spear, which she can do By Redirecting Kings attacks, Or just Putting up her Shields to Block them. However, Black Sperms counter to this is much easier, as even if Black sperm gets a scratch, Making that cut worse won't do anything, whatsoever , I've already showcased how ineffective piercing weapons are against Black Sperm.

Form 1: Chastifol

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Kings regular Old Spear. Now This Technique is easily counterable By Both Members on my Team. Firstly ill ask, Does king use TK To control his Spear? i honestly Cannot remember, but if he does, Then Tatsuamki has the ability to counter Espers's Attacks:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Please Read in order of Scan 3,4, 2 then 1.

However, if it doesn't, Its still Countable. If you Remember back in my post, i already discussed how Tatsuamki is a Multi-Million Tonner, I See no reason why She can't just Take control of Kings Spear and Stop Him From using it. Chastiefol Obviously has Mass, So i see no Reason why she cannot just Control it. She's done something similar Against Boros Ship, where she Halted the movements of Several of the Bomb Shells(Meaning she can and will do this IC):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Chapter 34
  • Scan 2: Size of the Shells, easily Boat Sized if nor larger
  • Scan 3 and 1: Tatsuamki sending them Back.

And this isn't Harming Black Sperm. If anything it just makes him multiply, Making more problems for King.

Form 2: Guardian

Lets just say, i don't think it can get through Tatsuamki's Shields, and if anything she can use her TK To restrain it. And again, BS Will just multiply.

Form 3: Fossilisation

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By Far Kings Deadliest Technique. However The Spear Still Cannot Reach Tatsumaki due to her barrier, Plus(Like i said before) She could take control of it and send it right back at King like she did with Boros's Bomb Shells. As for Black Sperm, He can just remove the Petrified Part of his Body and continue Fighting, as I've already Shown he can Disperse Clones form himself when Needed, he can also Manipulate his Body Fully, Changing his Size when he wants:

Form 4: Sunflower

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Now, IIRC King hasn't used this in his fight against Mel, so I'm assuming this Blast is still Around Mountain Level as it matched the Albion's Blast, However, Black Sperm could straight up Tank this due to his feats with Genos(and Genos is mountain level), as i showcased in the durability Section. And Tatsumaki could just straight up deflect the attack:

(ONE)Chapter 71
(ONE)Chapter 71

So this attack would be Pretty much Useless

Form 5: Increase

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My Personal favourite of kings Techniques..... Any who, Tatsuamki uses her TK To Take control of these bad Body and immobilise 'em, Allowing BS or Tatsuamki to attack/Neck Snap King.

Now, I'm gong to ignore Forms 7 And 8, as we can both pretty much agree They're kinda useless in this situation. And i won't be going to much into detail about the True forms of Chatierfol, As my team can pretty much Counter It the same way, Because either way , Tatsumaki is going to instantly Snap Kings Neck.

IV: Strategy

This part isn't Too complex. To start things off, all characters should be at least on Par with each other when it comes to Speed, So they Shouls be able to React to each other. Tatsumaki should be able to get control of Chatiefol Via Being a Multi-million tonner when it comes to TK, Immobilizing it for the Most part, Before using Life force Manipulation to Snap his neck:

Tatsumaki immboilizing Objects | Chapter 34
Tatsumaki immboilizing Objects | Chapter 34

If King somehow manages to use Chastiefol (Even though he can't) After Tatsuamki tries to restrain it, Tats Can still Deflect all of Kings attacks, and BS Can just Split his Body/multiply whenever harm comes his way. Next, Tatsuamki quickly Breaks his Neck so he can't Do Anything and Dies:

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OR, Black Sperm Quickly disperses 10,000 Clones, Over and Over and Over Again, to the Point where King cannot Hurt any of them as piercing attacks/blunt force attacks just Split him up, and He gets Overwhelmed, while they Beat him to Death. This same type of strategy worked Against Atomic Samurai(Who uses peiricing attacks Like King, although on a much weaker scale):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

And what was the end result? Well.......

No Caption Provided

V: Conclusion

  • King has Theoretically no way to Put My Team down, as basically all his Techniques are Counterable
  • Lacks the Speed and Stamina to Endure/Keep up with 11 TRILLION BS clones.
  • Has virtually no way to Counter Tatsumaki's Hax: Life Force manipulation
  • Has no way to Counter Tatsumaki taking control of Chatiefol

Thus my team win convincingly, With tats. as the MVP

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#17 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin Its up! Sorry if theres any Spelling mistakes, just drop me a quick tag if you see any and i can of course change them.

Hopefully the team isn't too much

If it is, the offer still Stands with escanor

@chronicplane said:

Tag for every post please, interested to see where this goes.

Your Tag, my good sir.

@emperorthanos-@darthjhawk This may interest you, seeing the characters being used.

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#18 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: Very solid post, you've definitely improved since I've last seen you debate. I'll start working on my opener right away.

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#19 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Thanks man, really appreciate it!

And I'm indeed looking forward to it, this debate should be very enjoyable

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#20 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

6.7

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#21 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: what are you rating?

My post, or debating still? Regardless this isn't the place to do so

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#22 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw said:

@thenewguysnm1: what are you rating?

My post, or debating still? Regardless this isn't the place to do so

Wrong thread.

My apologises

Edit:Nice opener

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#23 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Edited by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw:

Opener: Harlequin, The Strongest Fairy King

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Bio

To start it off, I'll just drop a quick Bio for King, in case there are some voters out there who don't know who he is:

King「キング」 is a member of the Seven Deadly Sins and is known as the Grizzly's Sin of Sloth. His real name is Fairy King Harlequin「妖精王ハーレクイン Yōsei-Ō Hārekuin」 for he protects the Fairy King's Forest and the rest of the Fairy Realm. His Sacred Treasure is the Spirit Spear Chastiefol, which he uses in conjunction with his inherent power, Disaster.

Taken from the corresponding page on the Nanatsu No Taizai wiki.

King's different forms and power increases

I wanted to make a specific section on this, because some of Kings attacks, stats and abilities haven't shown much use in his current form and I really want to make sure you voter and @vsw really grasp Kings increase in power over time. There are all of his different forms:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
  • Scan 1: BoS King, power level: 4,190
  • Scan 2: BoS King using the True Spirit Spear, power level: 11,000
  • Scan 3: Post-Training King, power level: 41,600
  • Scan 4: Current King, power level: unspecified, likely at least 150,000+, definitely far above 50,000+

To put these power level differences into a bit more perspective, BoS King in base(power level 4,190) was unable to win against an Albion and gradually losing ground. After activating the True Spirit Spear(boosting his power level to 11,000) he eviscerates the Albion with one attack. Despite that, when fighting Gloxinia with the True Spirit Spear while desperately fighting to his limits, he is quickly stomped by Gloxinia, even though the latter's just playing around. After the power up, it's stated his use of the Spirit Spear jumped up to being almost even with Gloxinia's, who previously curbstomped him. Despite this massive increase, King is unable to even damage 3 Commandment Mael with his attacks and is getting stomped by a toying Mael. Then, when he fully grows his wings and attains his current state, he's able to beat 4 Commandment Mael(even more powerful than the one who previously stomped him) decisively in less than 1 Chapter.

Originally, I was going to provide scans for all of this, but it's a bit much. As for the specific difference in powers between the old Spirit Spear forms and the new ones, I'll show that in the "Spirit Spear Chastiefol" section of this post.

Physical Abilities

King doesn't ever use his physical strength to fight, so I won't bother showing it. Instead, I'll start by showcasing his durability, which, unlike his strength, is quite good. Even the weakest form of King shown thus far(BoS) was able to take hits and an energy blast from an Albion(power level 5,500), one of the Demon Clan's most powerful grunts, with only superficial damage:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 118

BoS King being able to shrug off hits from an Albion is incredibly impressive for multiple reasons. For one, Albion's were described to be as big as mountains and incredibly strong. But, more importantly, just prior to this, the physical capabilities of an Albion were shown at its fullest, when casual flicks of its arms were powerful enough to produce shockwaves that cut gigantic swathes through the Fairy King's forests, cuts the top off of a small mountain with enough force to make it bounce into the air(via a shockwave as well) and cut the entirety of the Sacred Tree in half , which is stated to be stronger than steel and bigger than mountains:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 117 and Chapter 118

In other words, even BoS King, by far his weakest incarnation, is able to take small mountain level blows without too much trouble. In addition, this isn't even the extent of his physical durability. He's also able to take a direct blow from Dolor's full power Stone Golem to the head and remain conscious despite previous damage and exhaustion(confirmed in the 1st scan):

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 166

Now, you might be asking yourself, why is this impressive? Well, said Golem is able to absolutely rag doll and punch through Kings 2nd Form Guardian(despite it being almost immune to blunt force as a whole) and overpower Diane with very little effort on its part, proving its strength to be easily in the same general range as a strike from Black Sperm or regular telekinetic blow from Tatsumaki, for reasons I will gladly expand upon very shortly:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 166

Now, for the explanation. Do you see all those feats I gave for the Albion's ridiculous striking strength just a few words ago? Yeah, the 2nd Form Guardian was able to no-sell/tank multiple of those blows and, despite that, was absolutely rag dolled and broken by the Guardian that King took a punch from while extremely exhausted and off-guard:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 118
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 118

In other words, an exponentially weaker King tanked an attack significantly stronger than the Albion's own small mountain level striking while heavily weakened. Placing BoS Harlequin's blunt force durability high enough to take several mountain+ level blows before going down, proving that even BoS King should be able to handle at least a few attacks from Tatsu or Sperm.

Now, for the big question. Just how much did King's durability increase from then to his current state? Well, that's hard to say. We have no concrete way too quantify how much his durability increased after his training apart from "likely significantly". On the other hand, we do get a glimpse at Harlequins increase in durability once he fully grows his wings in comparison to before. Before he grew his wings, King was hit by Mael's Lightball/Jewel of Love, a mountain level energy attack, which, despite Diane seemingly guarding him from it partially, ragdolls him, causing severe bleeding and making him lie on the ground in pain:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 178

In other words, prior to his transformation, Lightball of Love is capable of inflicting severe damage on him despite being shielded by someone else. Now, what about after growing out his wings? Well, when Mael launched his Lightball at the new and improved King and it exploded, just like in the scans above, King shielded Diane and Elizabeth with the Spirit Spear, but not himself. The results:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 181

As you can see, he's completely unscathed. No damage, no reaction, no anything. In other words, King went from being severely damaged by an attack despite being guarded to absolutely no-selling it. If we apply at least a similar increase to his blunt force durability, which should be reasonable('m not saying the increase is the exact same, but it should be similar at least), King is even more capable of tanking mountain+ level blunt force attacks from Black Sperm and Tatsumaki than he was before. So, even if they do hit him despite Chastiefol being there(very unlikely, but more on that later), he'll be able to tank several blows for sure.

Result: Casual mountain+ level blunt force durability, multi-mountain energy durability.

Now, for his speed. Since King doesn't usually move around much or fight physically in a battle at all, this section will more so be addressing the speed of his usage of the Spirit Spear. Now that I've cleared that up, onto the actual feats. First of all, King's direction of the Spirit Spear is really fast, it's almost always been faster than his opponents, even when said opponents overall power was greater than his. But, to start it off, I'll just show a good feat for Kings own speed, just to clear up the silly misconception that he could be blitzed.

One example of Kings own speed is right at the beginning of the series is when Guila launches her Shot Bombs at King and Jericho uses her Godspeed Slash. Both of these attacks are very fast, one being a literal explosion and the other a series of attacks fast enough to blitz Ban, a lightning timer. Despite that, with both attacks being in his immediate vicinity, King instantly escapes both the explosions and the slashes, moving dozens of meters upwards faster than the explosion or the slashes can tag him:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 44

A quick google search tells me explosions usually range anywhere from Mach 5 to Mach 10 in speed, making King, who moved dozens of meters before an explosion could fully enfold, pretty damn fast. Obviously, that's not comparable to the Atomic Samurai dodging feat, if I where to accept it, but luckily, I don't. And besides, I'm just warming up here. Now, for the speed of King's direction of the Spirit Spear as of the Beginning of the Series. It, too, has a feat of reacting to an explosion casually at point-blank range, so that's where we'll start:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 42

Considering the speed of explosions and how late King was in actually directing the Spirit Spear to save him, a casual Mach 10 feat. Pretty nice. Obviously, that won't be enough here, even despite me not approving of the Atomic Samurai feat. Without anymore playing around, let's get to the really important stuff. Since you basically only have 1 feat to back up your characters even remotely being able to keep up with King(even if Mach 10 at BoS and then scaling upwards was my best feat, which it isn't), I'll counter with my best feat right away.

The following scans depict Current King using his Spirit Spear, from Guardian to Increase, to throughly outspeed and outpace 4 Commandment Mael, casual tagging and even blitzing him at times, with no apparent effort on the Fairy Kings part(not Mael's inability to dodge even while flying around):

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

The reason this is so stupidly impressive, even in comparison to the best feats your characters boast is that Mael is really, really fast. Even back when he had only 1 Commandment and hadn't awakened his Archangel powers, when his power level was merely 60,000 as opposed to 200,000, he was capable of moving several meters and stopping unsealed Meliodas' hand before he could complete a simple sword swing:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 175

Now, to describe what happened here and the importance of the scans:

  • Scans 1 and 2: We get a clear look at everything around Meliodas, from the front and the side and Estarossa is nowhere to be seen, proving he is indeed at least 5+ meters away from Meliodas before the latter swings his sword.
  • Scans 3 and 4: Meliodas activates his Revenge Counter. As you can see in the 4th scan, Estarossa still isn't within 4 or 5 meters of Meliodas(lowball, but whatever) when the latter activates the attack, debunking the possibility that Esta moved closer while Mel was initiating the Revenge Counter.
  • Scans 5, 6 and 7: Meliodas starts swinging his sword, but before he can complete the swing, Estarossa has moved from his position at absolute bare minimum 4 or 5 meters away and caught the sword before unsealed Meliodas could move his sword from his side at absolute most 1 meter in front of him(see scans 3 and 7 for the distance the sword moved).

Considering the events, it's impossible to dispute that Estarossa had to be moving at the very least 4 or 5 times faster than Meliodas to achieve the feat of catching his sword. Now, how fast is Meliodas. The answer is, at very least Mach 300, since even his sealed version(was blitzed by someone his unsealed version blitzed 12 times over) could react to cloud to ground lightning from Gilthunder at point-blank range multiple times without any issues(which also has feats proving its speed is actually mach 286, proof can be provided):

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 78

So, even if we massively lowball and assume Meliodas' speed barely increased at all from his sealed version, despite him casually blitzing Galan 12 times over, someone who could easily outspeed and blitz BoS Meliodas and did so multiple times, he's Mach 300. Since we know 1 Commandment Estarossa/Mael had to move at the very least 4 to 5 times faster than unsealed Meliodas to catch the Revenge Counter. That puts his speed at Mach 1,200 to 1,500(a very low-end estimate, to match your low-end of Samurai's speed).

Even ignoring Mael's very significant increase in speed since then, this means that the Spirit Spear/King's direction of it was able to casually outpace and outspeed an at the very least Mach 1,200+ to 1,500+ character in 4 Commandment Mael, which is a significantly superior feat to dodging/reacting to an attack from a Mach 900 character(not that I agree with that feat, more on that later). In other words, even lowballing Kings and Chastiefol's speed, he has a definitive speed advantage here that can't be denied, which I'll definitely be taking advantage of later on.

The Spirit Spear

Oh boy, this'll be a long one. King's Spirit Spear is basically his primary weapon that he utilises to attack and defend at all times. Being a Spear made from the Sacred Tree, it's naturally stronger than steel and has several(8 seen thus far, to be precise) different forms that each have different abilities and strengths. In this section, I'll be discussing all of them, their respective uses and power.

But first of all, let's get one thing straight. While it's true that up until recently, King only had 1 Spirit Spear he could use to fight, that's changed. In the recent Chapter, he's demonstrated the ability to summon 4 of them at the same time with no noticeable effort. For now, I'll assume that's his maximum capability and operate under the reasonable assumption that he'll be fighting Tatsumaki and Black Sperm using 4 different spears, as he did against Mael here:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 181
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 181

Another thing that needs to be clarified ASAP, especially considering your Strategy in the opening post, is that trying to telekinetically hold the Spirit Spear is useless. King can quickly switch around its forms at blinding speeds to confuse and annoy his opponents, even making it appear at different places than where it was before, as can be seen in his fights against Helbram and Mael:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 72 and Chapter 275
  • Scans 1 through 5: King attacks Helbram, fluently switching through the Spirit Spears forms, rendering all of Helbram's attacks useless and striking him from all sides.
  • Scans 6 to 7: Mael is holding up the 1st Form Chastiefol King launched at him, so, to retaliate, King transforms it, making it switch positions and uses the Guardian to punch Mael into the sky. This proves that by switching forms, King can make the Spirit Spear move to different positions.

In other words, if Tatsumaki attempts to grasp 1 or even all 4 of Kings Chastiefol's with her TK, he can simply switch there forms to escape or just transform them into the Guardian, which has physical strength potent enough to break out of her hold, as shall be proven shortly.

Without further due, let's get into the different forms!

1st Form Chastiefol: Chastiefol

This form of the Spirit Spear usually manifests as an extremely big, bladed spear that King can either use to engage his opponent in "melee" or blast them with from the distance, using its energy blasts. When using it in melee, King usually attacks his opponents with repeated, high-speed slashes from a distance. Said slashes are extremely potent, even being able to disintegrate the bodies of 2 Albion's easily when King used it against them, even prior to his latest, massive jump in power:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 259

All Albion's have the exact same power level because they're essentially "war machines", as was confirmed recently. As such completely disintegrating a large part of 2 Albion's bodies effortlessly is extremely impressive, considering Albion's are able to tank strikes from BoS Meliodas using a steel sword with basically no damage at all, the strike can barely even break its skin and the sword actually breaks because of it as well:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 115

BoS Meliodas's being the exact same character that could split a hill in half with just the shockwave of swinging a twig, something far inferior to a sword(this makes a huge difference in Seven Deadly Sins, equipment is everything), which would make him at the very least large hill level, likely small mountain with an actual bladed weapon:

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In other words, the 1st Form Spirit Spear from a far weaker King was able to casually cleave through and entirely disentegrate Albion's, who can almost no-sell large hill+ level blows from Meliodas. Basically, this feat easily puts King at mountain+ level with Chastiefol, even without scaling its powers up to his current state, where, based on the showings of the other forms, we can infer it should be multiple times as powerful. In other words, mountain+ level based on feats, multi-mountain with scaling. Pretty nice, if you ask me and more than capable of cleaving through Black Sperm and pressuring Tatsumaki's shields, especially considering its speed.

However, this isn't the only application of the 1st Form. It can also fire extremely potent energy blasts, which have some really, really good feats. Even BoS King using the True Spirit Spear could create an absolutely massive explosion that dwarfs an Albion, beings that were shown and stated to be small mountain sized:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 118

In other words, mountain+ level energy blasts for BoS King and thus, via scaling, multi-mountain level energy blasts for Current King. In addition, in case you have problems with this, feats also back this scaling. The feat I'm referring to would be Current King using the 1st Forms energy blast to absolutely roast 4 Commandment Mael easily, a character with incredible durability to energy attacks:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

The durability feats I'm referring to would be taking no damage at all from his own Lightball Of Love's explosion, which absolutely dwarfed the Sky Island, which, by comparing to Diane's 9 meter tall body, is hundreds of meters in size:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 178

So, yeah. In the end, by both feats and scaling, we get casually multi-mountain for the Spirit Spears energy blasts, which is backed by even more scaling that I won't bother to mention, since this is more than enough evidence. Since Black Sperm doesn't have any feats to suggest he can regenerate or clone from the dust this attack would reduce him to, it could potentially oneshot him. The same goes for Tatsumaki and her shields. Honestly, this attack is extremely dangerous for your team.

2nd Form Chastiefol: Guardian

The Guardian takes the form of a large, somewhat teddy like puppet that fights using powerful blunt force attacks and is also practically immune to said blunt force attacks, making it essentially the perfect form to keep Black Sperm occupied with:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 165

Now, it's only possible to defeat this puppet using the blunt force Black Sperm has at its disposable if you surpass its power by orders of magnitude(as seen with Drole's full force stone golem), otherwise, it just bounces back. Something which is, quite frankly, impossible for Black Sperm. Why do I say this? Well, even the far weaker(feat wise and scaling wise) Guardian used by King prior to acquiring his new wings was able to no-sell a physical strike from 3 Commandment Mael without even bending inwards, someone who's at least equal to Black Sperm in physical power for multiple reasons:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 275
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 275

And yes, a 3 Commandment Mael is extremely strong, at least as much so as Sperm. For reference as to why, even 1 Commandment Estarossa prior to reawakening his Archangel powers on-top of his darkness had a physical power level of 53,000, while Albion's overall power level is 5,500. So, a 3 Commandment Mael would be physically superior to an Albion to an extent that it's almost not even funny. And, in case you need any reminder, even an Albion was small mountain level in physicals(I'll just paste an earlier part of my opener):

"For one, Albion's were described to be as big as mountains and incredibly strong. But, more importantly, just prior to this, the physical capabilities of an Albion were shown at its fullest, when casual flicks of its arms were powerful enough to produce shockwaves that cut gigantic swathes through the Fairy King's forests, cuts the top off of a small mountain with enough force to make it bounce into the air(via a shockwave as well) and cut the entirety of the Sacred Tree in half , which is stated to be stronger than steel and bigger than mountains:"

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 117 and Chapter 118

So, yeah. Even a significantly weaker Guardian can no-sell mountain+ level blunt force, meaning, Black Sperm isn't damaging it with his attacks and it alone is more than enough to occupy him, while King can concentrate his own efforts on quickly eliminating Tatsumaki. Now, for the Guardians own physical abilities. They're just as potent as its defences, as see when it blitzes and physically overwhelms/damages 4 Commandment Mael:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

I've already shown above and in the different sections that I believe 4 Commandment Mael is at the least Mach 1,200 and mountain+ level physically, so completely overwhelming him like this is a preposterous feat that, considering Black Sperms own lack of good durability(unless he becomes Golden Sperm) and the Guardians durability, would allow him to run around while oneshotting Sperms and tanking their hits, until they're forced to fuse into Golden Sperm, at which point King eviscerates him with the 1st Form Spirit Spears energy blast.

3rd Form Chastiefol: Fossilization

This form is very haxy. When the 3rd Form pierces an opponent, it can turn them into stone, making it essentially the perfect counter for Sperms splitting, once King realises what's going on and an easy way to instantly kill Golden Sperm, once Black Sperm inevitably decides to fuse into one to combat King's far greater power. King used it in combination with the Gurdian that was restraining Ban to turn the immortal into stone, so it should nullify even Black Sperms power:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 21 and Chapter 22

That's pretty much it for this form, really. The only other thing to say is that even a slight cut can start to petrify the opponent, as can be seen in the scan you yourself posted for it.

4th Form Chastiefol: Sunflower

This form summons a huge plant that can attack with both its branches and the energy blasts it can emit from its "mouth". It's applications can be seen best of all when King uses it against the skeletons enhanced by Meliodas' darkness, disintegrating all of them to dust by creating an explosion:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 227

In other words, it primarily attacks with energy blasts. We could scale these off of those used by the 1st Form, but a more failsafe way of scaling with this attack that I'll be using here. We know that the weakest possible version of Sunflowers blast used by BoS King was capable of damaging an Albion and matching blasts with it, essentially stalemating it:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 117

The reason for this being the best method of scaling the blast is that an Albion is canonically the strongest of the Demon Clan's grunt monsters, having a power level of 5,500 across the board. In comparison, the power of a Red Demon only ranges from 1,000 to 1,300. Why do I bring up the Red Demon, you ask? Well, a blast from a Red Demon, which is canonically far weaker than an Albion was comparable in size to a fully grown Sacred Tree, which was stated to be bigger than any mountain and shown to absolutely dwarf hills and have clouds at the bottom of its base:

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Seven Days Chapter 7

Scans can be provided at will for the Sacred Tree's size. Scaling to this Red Demon, which Kings blasts should easily be stronger than, considering even an exponentially weaker King matched an Albion, which is canonically stronger than a Red Demon in every way. So yeah, even Sunflowers blasts should have easily mountain+ power when using that feat.

5th Form Chastiefol: Increase

This form works by separating the Spirit Spear into a large cloud of swords that can move at extremely high speeds. Considering the absolute lack of piercing resistance feats your team has, a large amount of Increase swords moving at the same speeds it did when King used it against Mael, where it was able to outspeed and tag a significantly above Mach 1,200 opponent, will shred a large number of Black Sperms into pieces at the same time and keep Tatsumaki very, very occupied, since she's never had to deal with a large number of projectiles this powerful moving at these speeds before and likely can't, especially not while King's bombarding her with powerful energy blasts from Sunflower and/or Chastiefol from the side. And yes, the Increase is very potent. It was able to slice through a weapon made out of one of the Commandments with ease, which contained 5% of the Demon King's power, and it damaged/outsped 4 Commandment Mael decisively, moving faster than he could react:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

That should be it for the Spirit Spear for now. There are some more forms, one of which I may explore in my next post, but, for the most part, they're not particularly relevant.

Disaster and Other Magic

This'll be a very short section, mainly just devoted to a quick explanation of King's Disaster and ability to read people's hearts. As you already showed in your own post, Disaster basically allows King to increase small wounds to big ones and vice versa, as is shown well in Merlin's explanation of the ability and his use of it against Meliodas in their brief scuffle:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 134

This won't be of much use against Sperm due to his ability, but when King does tag Tatsumaki with Chastiefol or Increase after repeated high-speed attacks using multiple, ever shape shifting Chastiefols at once, it'll allow him to finish the fight, regardless how tiny the wound is. Pretty potent, huh?

Now, for the second of King's abilities. After the newest transformation, he's shown the ability to read people's hearts, doing so against both Diane and Mael:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

Now, you might be asking yourself what this could possibly be useful for, right? Well, actually, there's multiple things. For one, as seen by its use by Elaine, it prevents any surprise attacks, since it allows one to sense the true intentions of anyone sneaking up on you. Elaine could passively detect the presence of the approaching Diane and Elizabeth using it and knew exactly what a robber was going to try to do to overcome her, since she could read his heart and knew the intentions of his next attack:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 219 and Seven Days Chapter 2

In other words, it prevents surprise attacks(sensory, basically) and acts as low-level precognition, allowing Harlequin to have a basic understanding of what his opponents are about to do, which'd give him another boost to his already significant speed advantage. Between this and the speed of his Spirit Spear attacks, it'll be hard for you to even hit him.

Counters I: Tatsumaki's TK

Now The last Showing ill Be showcasing on Tatsuamkai's Raw strength is her feat of Bring down the Meteor i mentioned Earlier, and Causing a Mountain+ Sized explosion or so.

Right off of the bat, I have a problem with this. The destructive force of the meteor brought down by Tatsumaki's TK =/= the destructive force of her TK. Equating them is fallacious, because all Tatsumaki had to do was pull the rock down into the atmosphere, at which point the speed generated from it being pulled in by Earth's gravitational field would be a large part of its subsequent destructive force(along with its size, of course), a part that Tatasumaki's TK had nothing to do with.

As you can see Below, the Ancient King is big Enough that he compares to the size of Mountain, Below you'll see Him Dwarfing a Small Hill, like it beryl comes up to his ankle, Meaning that Ancient King Himself is about Large Hill Sized.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but where in that GIF is the Ancient King dwarfing a hill, or anything that even remotely resembles one? I looked at the GIF multiple times and then looked up the scene on Youtube and watched that twice and absolutely nowhere do I see the this "hill" your referring to. Quite frankly, I don't know what you're referring to.

Well, The crater Tatsumaki Makes absolutely Dwarfs The Ancient King, Meaning it was Around Mountain Sized or So(Likely Larger):

Since we have no reference for the size of the Ancient Kings body that proves it's actually mountain sized, as there's no hill to be found anywhere in your scans, let's use another point of reference. The Ancient Kings head and neck were only a couple of times larger than Tatsumaki, an extremely small human:

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I don't see it being anything above small to, at best, medium hill sized.

Scan 1: Shows AK Standing next to some Small Hills, absolutely dwarfing them(Making him at least large Hill sized)

There are no hills to be found anywhere in that GIF, at least not ones that are dwarfed by the Ancient King.

Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki calling the Meteor down and the end result of it, a Huge crater Dwarfing AK Body

At best, this proves that the meteors Tatsumaki can call down are capable of dwarfing the Ancient Kings skeleton with their impact explosions, which would be smaller than its actual body(which is about mid-hill sized at best). This a large hill level feat, small mountain at the absolute best. In other words, Tatsumaki's meteors(not her TK) can't inflict serious damage on King, who tanked small mountain level attacks in his weakest form, even if they were to somehow hit him despite his speed and Chastiefol, which could block them in a variety of different ways.

Life Force Manipulation

By Far Tatsumaki's Most Powerful Technique(And her go to method of execution). Basically, Everyone(Even Non Physics) Have a certain energy flowing within Them. Some call it Chi, Or Aura etc etc, the name doesn't really matter, however what is important is that Tatsumaki can Control it, essentially use it to Break and Rip the Neck/Body parts of whoever She's Fight, As Shown Below. This is Tats Most dangerous technique, that could Very well Oneshot King, as he Lacks Regenerative feats in order to suggest he can regrow his head:

You seemed to have missed the part where this ability, too, depends on the opponents power to be successful, as Tatsumaki and Fubuki literally explain directly after she tries and fails to kill Saitama using this exact ability:

One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 102
One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 102

Tatsumaki literally states that this ability also failed against Golden Sperm and 1st Form Monster Garou because they were too strong. So, unless you can provide actual feats for her successfully using this against opponents that could tank mountain level blows while an exponential amount less durable than current and have an energy supply great enough to fire off multi-mountain level energy attacks with no effort, it's useless here.

I'll give you a piece of advice. Next time you present scans to back up your arguments, don't leave out vital parts, it isn't exactly good for your credibility.

Counter II: Countering Specific Feats

Right, so the reason that I'm making this into one section is that there are a couple of fallacious feats you're scaling from for a lot of your 2 characters different stats. Namely, the Atomic Samurai speed feat(only good speed feat for either Tatsumaki or Black Sperm) and the Genos-Arm-Ripping feat(used for both Black Sperms strength and Tatsumaki's durability via shields). Let's start with the Atomic Samurai one.

My main problem with this isn't the fact that Atomic Samurai is a Mach 900 character(he is), it's that Black Sperm is able to consistently react to his slice-and-dice sword slashes, because he clearly can't. Yes, you showed him reacting to a casual surprise attack from Atomic Samurai, but, what you failed to mention was that, when the latter got serious, he was able to speedblitz multiple copies of Black Sperm at the same time and, in the last 2 scans i provided, even managed to cut several different Black Sperms into many, many pieces before they could cross a distance of a couple of meters and attack him:

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One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 63
  • Scan 1: Blitzes several Black Sperms with a simple slash.
  • Scan 2: Cuts Black Sperm many times before the latter can react(and he was clearly attempting to dodge attacks when possible, as shown when he dodged Samurai's surprise attack)
  • Scan 3: Blitzes and cuts 5 different Black Sperms attacking him from different sides into several pieces each before they can attack him
  • Scan 4 and 5: Blitzes even more Back Sperms and cuts all of them into tiny pieces before they can reach him.

In other words, no, Black Sperm isn't even in the same general tier of speed as the Mach 900+ Atomic Samurai, who, when actually using slice-and-dice attacks(for lack of a better word, I mean the attacks where he cuts his opponents into dozens of pieces) blitzed and cut multiple copies of Black Sperm into small pieces before they could even move a few meters. Your only speed feat is now null and void, since Tatsumaki's only feat is more scaling to Black Sperm, who's scaling to Atomic Samurai, his only good speed feat, is now debunked. Basically, I can and will now argue that King blitzes your team silly.

The other feat is the Genos-arm-ripping one. This one is really problematic for a number of reasons. For one, we don't know the power of the blast Genos launched at Asura Rhino as opposed to the one he launched at that mountain and equating them is fallacious for multiple reasons:

  1. Genos was extremely weakened and heavily damaged when he attacked Asura Rhino
  2. Genos only used a onehanded blast as opposed to a full power double handed one that destroyed the mountain

Even if we ignore this and assume the blast was at the same strength, said blast only destroyed a small portion of a mountain as can be seen better in the manga, as opposed to the anime(where e we only get an unclear background shot), which would reduce Genos and, subsequently Asura Rhino's feat to small mountain/large hill level

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One Punch Man Manga Chapter 9

And then there's still the fact that Asura Rhino merely attacked Genos with a casual backhand, which Genos "tanked". However, Black Sperm specifically held onto his arm and ripped it off(it's not like it was done with a regular punch, he specifically ripped it off). In other words, saying Black Sperms attack must be stronger than Asura Rhino's just because it ripped off Genos' arm when Asura Rhino's didn't is fallacious, because, unlike Sperm, Asura didn't use a physical attack specifically intended to rip off Genos arm.

In other words, at the very best, even if we completely ignore that last and first part and assume scaling black Sperms attack potency all the way back to Genos' blasts, its still no better than mountain level, which isn't particularly impressive to King's Guardian or durability at all, as I explained in the other sections.

Counters III: Countering Your Counters

Kings most deadly Technique, and while Tatsumaki has no direct Counter to it, all she has to do is Not get Hit by the spear, which she can do By Redirecting Kings attacks, Or just Putting up her Shields to Block them.

Ok, so you admit that, once King tags Tatasumaki with his increase or Chastiefol even once, she's done for. That's a good start. Regardless, Tatsumaki hasn't shown the ability to react to dozens of Mach 1,500 projectiles in the forms of Increase swerving around and attacking her from multiple different directions, so she isn't redirecting them. As for shielding from them, her shields have no piercing resistance feats, nor do they have any energy durability feats, so I see them just getting eviscerated by Sunflower or either 1st Form Chastiefol's piercing barrages or multi-mountain energy blasts, at which point Increase impales her at speeds faster than she can react to.

However, Black Sperms counter to this is much easier, as even if Black sperm gets a scratch, Making that cut worse won't do anything, whatsoever , I've already showcased how ineffective piercing weapons are against Black Sperm.

True, Disaster won't be effective against Black Sperm.

Form 1: Chastifol

Kings regular Old Spear. Now This Technique is easily counterable By Both Members on my Team. Firstly ill ask, Does king use TK To control his Spear? i honestly Cannot remember, but if he does, Then Tatsuamki has the ability to counter Espers's Attacks:

It wasn't ever explicitly stated. But, since other people with telekinetic abilities like Gloxinia or Helbram never attempted to take control of his spear despite being more powerful than him as of certain parts of the story, nor the other way around, I would think not.

However, if it doesn't, Its still Countable. If you Remember back in my post, i already discussed how Tatsuamki is a Multi-Million Tonner, I See no reason why She can't just Take control of Kings Spear and Stop Him From using it.Chastiefol Obviously has Mass, So i see no Reason why she cannot just Control it. She's done something similar Against Boros Ship, where she Halted the movements of Several of the Bomb Shells(Meaning she can and will do this IC):

I thought this would eventually come up. Well, as I demonstrated in the Spirit Spear section, King can switch his forms at incredible speeds and does so consistently, meaning that stopping the Spear will be a pain. Not to mention that, when King does switch his forms, he's been shown to be able to make it change positions and break out of grips, as he did against Mael when the latter caught his Chastiefol, despite Mael's far greater power:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 72 and Chapter 275
  • Scans 1 through 5: King attacks Helbram, fluently switching through the Spirit Spears forms, rendering all of Helbram's attacks useless and striking him from all sides.
  • Scans 6 to 7: Mael is holding up the 1st Form Chastiefol King launched at him, so, to retaliate, King transforms it, making it switch positions and uses the Guardian to punch Mael into the sky. This proves that by switching forms, King can make the Spirit Spear move to different positions.

In other words, taking control of the Spear isn't a viable option here, especially not with 4 of them floating around, including the Guardian form, which has enough physical strength to break out of Tatsu's TK anyway, at least based on the feats you showed me..

Form 2: Guardian

Lets just say, i don't think it can get through Tatsuamki's Shields, and if anything she can use her TK To restrain it. And again, BS Will just multiply.

Tatsumaki's TK doesn't have enough feats to suggest it can restrain a multi-mountain level Guardian and you've only shown Black Sperm multiplying from blunt force attacks(yes, Bangs attacks with his martial art actually cut through things and are thus not blunt force trauma, which is Black Sperm was cut into pieces by them).

Form 4: Sunflower

Now, IIRC King hasn't used this in his fight against Mel, so I'm assuming this Blast is still Around Mountain Level as it matched the Albion's Blast, However, Black Sperm could straight up Tank this due to his feats with Genos(and Genos is mountain level),

No, he can't. Webcomic Genos is only small mountain level and, as such, tanking an attack from him isn't enough. Besides, I'm not even confident Sperm did tank it. Isn't it likely that he died to it and then one of his clones attacked Genos from the side, seeing as to how the big ass arm he had when he was beating up Atomic Samurai and attacking Tatsu wasn't present on the clone that ripped off Genos' arm?

as i showcased in the durability Section. And Tatsumaki could just straight up deflect the attack:So this attack would be Pretty much Useless

Tatsumaki's only redirected Natural Waters fodder level blasts, she isn't doing anything to Chastiefol's or Sunflower's mountain to multi-mountain level blasts.

Form 5: Increase

My Personal favourite of kings Techniques..... Any who, Tatsuamki uses her TK To Take control of these bad Body and immobilise 'em

I've already debunked this and explained why it won't be possible here, so Increase'll still be swarming Tatsu from all sides at speeds to fast for her to react to, since they outsped Mael, who dwarfs Tatsumaki in speed via having actual, legitimate feats above Mach 1,000.

, Allowing BS or Tatsuamki to attack/Neck Snap King.

She hasn't neck snapped anyone with even close to the blunt trauma feats even BoS King has, so this isn't happening.

Counters IV: Strategy

This part isn't Too complex. To start things off, all characters should be at least on Par with each other when it comes to Speed, So they Shouls be able to React to each other.

I disagree. Your best speed feat involves faulty scaling to being generally on-par with a Mach 900 character, which I debunked, while I've shown King outspeeding a significantly above Mach 1,200+ character. In other words, even if i accept the Atomic Samurai scaling, King's faster and with my debunking of it, he's going to be blitzing you all over the place.

Tatsumaki should be able to get control of Chatiefol Via Being a Multi-million tonner when it comes to TK, Immobilizing it for the Most part, Before using Life force Manipulation to Snap his neck:

I've explained multiple times why this won't worked, so I'll just copy and paste it:

Well, as I demonstrated in the Spirit Spear section, King can switch his forms at incredible speeds and does so consistently, meaning that stopping the Spear will be a pain. Not to mention that, when King does switch his forms, he's been shown to be able to make it change positions and break out of grips, as he did against Mael when the latter caught his Chastiefol, despite Mael's far greater power:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 72 and Chapter 275
  • Scans 1 through 5: King attacks Helbram, fluently switching through the Spirit Spears forms, rendering all of Helbram's attacks useless and striking him from all sides.
  • Scans 6 to 7: Mael is holding up the 1st Form Chastiefol King launched at him, so, to retaliate, King transforms it, making it switch positions and uses the Guardian to punch Mael into the sky. This proves that by switching forms, King can make the Spirit Spear move to different positions.

In other words, taking control of the Spear isn't a viable option here, especially not with 4 of them floating around, including the Guardian form, which has enough physical strength to break out of Tatsu's TK anyway, what with being multi-mountain level physically, which is above any feats you've showed for Tatsumaki's TK.

If King somehow manages to use Chastiefol (Even though he can't) After Tatsuamki tries to restrain it, Tats Can still Deflect all of Kings attacks,

Tatsumaki isn't redirecting multiple energy blasts and slashes/strikes from 1st Form Chastiefol, Guardian/Increase and Sunflower at the same time, since they're both faster(remember the Mael feat) and more powerful than anything she's redirected thus far.

and BS Can just Split his Body/multiply whenever harm comes his way.

Black Sperm has never multiplied from being disintegrated by multi-mountain level energy blasts, so we can safely assume a 1st Form Chastiefol blast can wipe him out(and all of the clones he may produce), especially since it's AOE is potentially great enough to cover kilometres(remember, it dwarfed an Albion when it as far weaker). Yeah, Sperms useless here.

Next, Tatsuamki quickly Breaks his Neck so he can't Do Anything and Dies:

Tatasumaki lacks the feats to break the neck of a character that tanked mountain level blunt force while exponentially weaker and also won't have the opportunity to do so while being bombarded by attacks from several Sprit Spears from all directions.

OR, Black Sperm Quickly disperses 10,000 Clones, Over and Over and Over Again, to the Point where King cannot Hurt any of them as piercing attacks/blunt force attacks just Split him up, and He gets Overwhelmed, while they Beat him to Death.

Not happening, for multiple reasons. The first and most simple would be, that, unlike Black Sperm, King can fly with those big ass wings on his back(even without them, but that's beside the point), meaning Black Sperm isn't going to hit him if king doesn't want him to. Then there's the fact that King can simply send his Guardian, which is durable enough to completely no-sell hits on Black Sperms level(mountain+ at very best, since it no-sold 3C Mael's hits) and has enough blunt force to oneshot regular Black Sperms(or anything short of Golden Sperm), to deal with him while he uses the remaining 3 Spirit Spears to whack and blast Tatsumaki into submission.

Then, since Black Sperms blunt force can't damage Guardian and he can't reach King, he'll be forced to transform into Golden Sperm to retaliate against Guardian, at which point King'll simply send a second Spirit Spear in Fossilization form down to pierce Sperm from behind(or from the front while Guardians restraining him).

In other words, Black Sperm is a non-factor due to his inability to tag King because he can fly and because all of his methods of attack are hard-countered by the 2nd Form Guardian, which is too durable for him too harm with his strikes.

This same type of strategy worked Against Atomic Samurai(Who uses peiricing attacks Like King, although on a much weaker scale):

Atomic Samurai is slower than King, doesn't have multiple different weapons, hax, energy blasts, the ability to attack from range. He can't fly either. What was your point, again?

My strategy is simple. King attacks Tatsumaki with Sunflower, Chastiefol(Form 1) and and Increase from all sides while flying in the air, who then promptly dies due to lacking feats for tanking or dealing with energy blasts or speed at the calibre of Sunflower/Chastiefol and Increase respectively. Meanwhile, Guardian deals with Black Sperm until the latter becomes Golden Sperm, at which point he gets fossilised by a second Spirit Spear or blasted to dust by a 3rd(at this point, Tatsu should already be dead).

Initial Conclusion

  • King is far faster than either of your team members
  • King has pre-cog that makes it impossible to surprise attack him, which'd be your teams only chance
  • King is too durable for Tatsu to snap his neck or use her chi manipulation on him
  • King can fly, meaning Black Sperm isn't doing anything to him
  • King has energy attacks that are far above the calibre your team has shown to be capable dealing with
  • Kings Guardian alone can deal with Black Sperm for a while, while his other spirit spears blast/slash Tatsumaki to dust
  • King can use his energy blasts or mountain level slashing+speed from multiple spirit spears to keep any projectiles Tatsumaki can launch at him from actually hitting their goal
  • King can deal with Golden Sperm via the use of Guardian to fight and distract him, while fossilization pierces and petrifies him from behind
  • King wins this fight rather decisively
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#25 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Holy shit, that was fast.

Anyway, excellent opener a solid always! I'll try to keep the pace up and get a reply out by Tommorow/Wednesday.

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#26 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

Great post

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#28 Posted by KeyChain (661 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by shirso (3153 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin: Incredible. King has a really cool powerset. I might challenge you to another SDS matchup sometime later.

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#30 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

King would stomp bsm naruto

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#31 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (1088 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: @hittheassasin:Just finished reading both openers again. Keep up the good work guys.

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#32 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7097 posts) - - Show Bio

I can well and truly say. VSW is now my superior,lol.

Tag after each post

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#33 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@worldofruin6: @thenewguysnm1, lol, cheers for your kind words :)

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#34 Posted by Hope_w (1798 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag, im probably omitted from voting but Id like to see the outcome.

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#35 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@hope_w: nah you can vote, it's not that deep man

Though I'd like a paragraph from you.

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#36 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7163 posts) - - Show Bio

@vsw: You don't have to be super fast. I just had lots of spare time on my hands and I've really wanted to CaV with King far a while, so I'm very motivated.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your post and this debate as a whole!

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#37 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2

Well let me just say, Damn HTA, Thats was a fantastic Opener(and its so very long), but i do have a few Main Problems with your Post which ill elevate you on shortly, but mostly Speed Stacking, Lifting Strength =/= striking Strength, and BS/Tatsumaki's Speed.

Also I've noticed you made a separate section Countering Tatsumak's TP, Then another Countering Specific Feats. Ill divide these sections into Tatsuamki's and Black sperms rebuttals respectively in order to make things tidier.

I: Counters | King

Stats

BoS King being able to shrug off hits from an Albion is incredibly impressive for multiple reasons. For one, Albion's were described to be as big as mountains and incredibly strong. But, more importantly, just prior to this, the physical capabilities of an Albion were shown at its fullest, when casual flicks of its arms were powerful enough to produce shockwaves that cut gigantic swathes through the Fairy King's forests, cuts the top off of a small mountain with enough force to make it bounce into the air(via a shockwave as well) and cut the entirety of the Sacred Tree in half , which is stated to be stronger than steel and bigger than mountains:

Correct me if I'm wrong, But in Both instances this has been shown to be a piercing attack ; It Cleanly Cut through the Sacred Tree(When was it stated to be bigger than Mountain by the way? Scans? Because it Looks fairly small). In Regards to Cutting the Small Mountain, In order to Actually Become Small Mountain You'd need to completely destroy a Small Mountain,Not just remove the Top of it and send it several meters into the Air. Think of it like me Claiming Toneri is Moon Level Via Golden Wheel Reverse Explosion for example; I Doubt the force needed for Separate the Top of a small Mountain would be anything above Hill Level(Im trying not to delve too much into the TnT Fan Calc industry).

But again, its a piercing attack, you even said it yourself, the Albion Cut the top of the Mountain. This pretty much already makes most of the Scaling Moot Since your using Piercing attacks, and comparing them to Blunt Force, But lets continue :

In other words, even BoS King, by far his weakest incarnation, is able to take small mountain level blows without too much trouble. In addition, this isn't even the extent of his physical durability. He's also able to take a direct blow from Dolor's full power Stone Golem to the head and remain conscious despite previous damage and exhaustion(confirmed in the 1st scan):

Well even if i was to agree its a Small Mountain level attack(Which it isn't, let me make that clear), Its still a piercing attack above everything else.

Now, you might be asking yourself, why is this impressive? Well, said Golem is able to absolutely rag doll and punch through Kings 2nd Form Guardian(despite it being almost immune to blunt force as a whole) and overpower Diane with very little effort on its part, proving its strength to be easily in the same general range as a strike from Black Sperm or regular telekinetic blow from Tatsumaki, for reasons I will gladly expand upon very shortly:

Now, for the explanation. Do you see all those feats I gave for the Albion's ridiculous striking strength just a few words ago? Yeah, the 2nd Form Guardian was able to no-sell/tank multiple of those blows and, despite that, was absolutely rag dolled and broken by the Guardian that King took a punch from while extremely exhausted and off-guard

Alright, So just to recap, Your saying King Tanked a hit from the golem which >> 2nd Form Guardian which tanked hits from the Albion?

Well, up until now the Albions Hits have only Had Cutting Potency, so Its either:

A: 2nd Form Guardian tanked several Cutting Attacks from the albion, Making your Scaling Void.

B: 2nd Form Guardian tanked Several blunt force attacks from the Albion, However, we don't know how strong the Blunt force attacks from the Albion is..... Which again, makes your Scaling Void. Ontop of the fact that the albion isn't even Small Mountain Level Via Only managing to Slice the Mountain in half. Basically, King doesn't have Mountain+ Blunt force Durability. At All.

Now, for the big question. Just how much did King's durability increase from then to his current state? Well, that's hard to say. We have no concrete way too quantify how much his durability increased after his training apart from "likely significantly". On the other hand, we do get a glimpse at Harlequins increase in durability once he fully grows his wings in comparison to before. Before he grew his wings, King was hit by Mael's Lightball/Jewel of Love, a mountain level energy attack, which, despite Diane seemingly guarding him from it partially, ragdolls him, causing severe bleeding and making him lie on the ground in pain:

Alright, Jewel of Love is Mountain Level, So far so good. for now.....

In other words, prior to his transformation, Lightball of Love is capable of inflicting severe damage on him despite being shielded by someone else. Now, what about after growing out his wings? Well, when Mael launched his Lightball at the new and improved King and it exploded, just like in the scans above, King shielded Diane and Elizabeth with the Spirit Spear, but not himself. The results:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 181

As you can see, he's completely unscathed. No damage, no reaction, no anything. In other words, King went from being severely damaged by an attack despite being guarded to absolutely no-selling it. If we apply at least a similar increase to his blunt force durability, which should be reasonable('m not saying the increase is the exact same, but it should be similar at least), King is even more capable of tanking mountain+ level blunt force attacks from Black Sperm and Tatsumaki than he was before. So, even if they do hit him despite Chastiefol being there(very unlikely, but more on that later), he'll be able to tank several blows for sure.

Result: Casual mountain+ level blunt force durability, multi-mountain energy durability.

To be completely Fair, I Used this Exact same Logic for Golden Sperm, Scaling Him off his weaker embodiment(That Being Black Sperm), However, You've pretty much Skipped a Tier , Which is something i don't understand.

Pre Awakening King was almost killed by a Mountain level attack being Guarded, This goes to show how weak he was, However, Awakened King No Sold the Attack, his energy durability Should be Mountain+, where did Multi-Mountain come from? When i Used this Logic for Golden Sperm, i only moved him a tier upwards(From Mountain+ to multi Mountain), So where did this jump come from.

To simplify , PA King almost got killed by a mountain level attack(While being guarded) Meaning his Durability should be below Mountain level. Awakened King No Sold it, Meaning his durability is Mountain-Mountain+, not Multi Mountain.

Speed

Now, if you've read my opener, you'll notice even though i called Atomic Samurai Mach 900, and considering Black Sperm tagged him, and Tatsuamki reacted to 10,000 of them with brain damage(Ill Back Up Black Sperms Speed in the rebuttal section) Have you realised i Never actually Called Black Sperm Mach 1000+? Or Tatsuamki Mach 1,500 for dealing with 10,000 Black sperm while having brain Damage? No, Because that would be Speed Stacking.

Blitzing one character doesn't automaticlaly make you 5 times faster than them. Hell, I Could be mach 1000, and you could be Mach 1003, and you'd literally be FTE To me, Because there no quantifiable way to measure how fast one character is via Blitzing another, just assumptions on top of assumtions. I Prefer not to use it, as it just relies of speculations and assumptions, However, It Seems you've decided to Use it, So For now, I Will As well....

With that out of the way, lets Looks at Kings Speed:

So, even if we massively lowball and assume Meliodas' speed barely increased at all from his sealed version, despite him casually blitzing Galan 12 times over, someone who could easily outspeed and blitz BoS Meliodas and did so multiple times, he's Mach 300. Since we know 1 Commandment Estarossa/Mael had to move at the very least 4 to 5 times faster than unsealed Meliodas to catch the Revenge Counter. That puts his speed at Mach 1,200 to 1,500(a very low-end estimate, to match your low-end of Samurai's speed).

Even ignoring Mael's very significant increase in speed since then, this means that the Spirit Spear/King's direction of it was able to casually outpace and outspeed an at the very least Mach 1,200+ to 1,500+ character in 4 Commandment Mael, which is a significantly superior feat to dodging/reacting to an attack from a Mach 900 character(not that I agree with that feat, more on that later). In other words, even lowballing Kings and Chastiefol's speed, he has a definitive speed advantage here that can't be denied, which I'll definitely be taking advantage of later

Now that I've decided to use Speed Stacking as well, Lets play ball. Ill Agree that King is in the Mach 1500 Range, that Seems Fair, but it lacks in Comparison to Tatsuamki reacting to 10,000 Mach 900, Black Sperm Clones(I Know you think you debunked Black Sperm being Mach 900 , but ill deal with that in the Rebuttal section), While having BRAIN Damage:

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  • Scan 1 and 3: Shows Tatsuamki dealing with the Clones
  • Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki had brain damage.

Now, reacting to 10,000 Mach 900 Clones will having Brain damage is superior to blitzing Mel, a Mach 1500(According to you) Character. I Mean,10 ThOuSaNd, With Speed Stacking(Which seems to be what were using Right now), Thats at least on Par with King, So Tatsumaki isn't being Blitzed, Neither is Golden Sperm(Having blitzed Tatsumaki).

Blitzing Black Sperm won't do you any good to be honest, as the only thing you posses which can even Harm Black Sperm is Fozziliation, and luckily For us Fozzilization isnt Instant, Meaning BS Can easily just remove his Body.

Chatiefol

Another thing that needs to be clarified ASAP, especially considering your Strategy in the opening post, is that trying to telekinetically hold the Spirit Spear is useless. King can quickly switch around its forms at blinding speeds to confuse and annoy his opponents, even making it appear at different places than where it was before, as can be seen in his fights against Helbram and Mael

How Does That Work? Chastiefol is Chastiefol, Wether its the 2nd Form, or 3rd Form, As long as Tatsumaki has her Telekinesis Locked onto it, it isn't Going anywhere, Because although the Spear can change Shape, or should i say, Change 'Form', Its Not Like each Form is a completely different Spear. Obviously Mael couldn't hold onto the spear with his Bare Hands because it changed its Size, but Tatsuamki doesn't use the same Technique he does.

If Tatsuamki gets locked onto to, She'll Stay locked onto it. And the Spear isn't confusing Tatsumaki via reacting to 10,000 BS Clones, And she reacted to Multiple of Boros Ships Shells, 4 Attacks arent confusing Her:

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  • Scan 1: Tats w/Brain Damage reacting to 10,000 Black Sperm clones
  • Scan 2: Tats reacting to 26 simultaneous attacks.

As for Black Sperm being 'Confused' By Kings spear...... That isn't happening, seeing as for now Kings only been shown to use 4 different transformations at a time, if BS Splits himself up into 4 places, Then its 2,862,225,040,000 clones To One Spear. Hell, has King ever dealt which such numbers Before? Has he even fought multiple opponents at once? And He'd Still Have to Deal with Tatsumaki as well.

However, this isn't the only application of the 1st Form. It can also fire extremely potent energy blasts, which have some really, really good feats. Even BoS King using the True Spirit Spear could create an absolutely massive explosion that dwarfs an Albion, beings that were shown and stated to be small mountain sized:

oof.

Im Sorry, but when were they stated to be small Mountain sized? Anyway, even if they were, thats simply not the case, because we directly see king next to the Albions, and there Size is anything But Mountain sized, if anything you'd be hard pressed arguing the albion at Large Hill, let alone Small Mountain. To be completely honest, The Size difference between King and the albion, and Tatsumaki and Ancient King is almost exactly identical, and the Ancient King isn't Mountain sized:

King(A Small Human) is slightly smaller then the albion Head
King(A Small Human) is slightly smaller then the albion Head

Tatsumaki(a Small Human) is smaller than the ancient kings head
Tatsumaki(a Small Human) is smaller than the ancient kings head

So Kings Explosion dwarfing the Albion is Only Small Mountain level at Best.

Does this Reasoning sound familiar? Well thats because its the exact same Logic you used to determine how strong Tatsumaki's Meteor feat was; You got the Ancient Kings Size By Comparing Tatsumaki to the Ancient Kings Head, and Then Put Tatsumaki's meteor Feat at Small Mountain level 'At Best' for dwarfing The Ancient Kings Body.

I Say and Quote 'Another day on vine screwing debtors over with there own logic'

in other words, mountain+ level energy blasts for BoS King and thus, via scaling, multi-mountain level energy blasts for Current King. In addition, in case you have problems with this, feats also back this scaling. The feat I'm referring to would be Current King using the 1st Forms energy blast to absolutely roast 4 Commandment Mael easily, a character with incredible durability to energy attacks:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

The durability feats I'm referring to would be taking no damage at all from his own Lightball Of Love's explosion, which absolutely dwarfed the Sky Island, which, by comparing to Diane's 9 meter tall body, is hundreds of meters in size:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 178

So, yeah. In the end, by both feats and scaling, we get casually multi-mountain for the Spirit Spears energy blasts, which is backed by even more scaling that I won't bother to mention, since this is more than enough evidence. Since Black Sperm doesn't have any feats to suggest he can regenerate or clone from the dust this attack would reduce him to, it could potentially oneshot him. The same goes for Tatsumaki and her shields. Honestly, this attack is extremely dangerous for your team.

You previously said Lightball of Love was Mountain level, And Mael tanked that, However when King damages Mael, its a Multi-Mountain level feat? What? It would be Mountain+.

2nd Form: Gaurdian

And yes, a 3 Commandment Mael is extremely strong, at least as much so as Sperm. For reference as to why, even 1 Commandment Estarossa prior to reawakening his Archangel powers on-top of his darkness had a physical power level of 53,000, while Albion's overall power level is 5,500. So, a 3 Commandment Mael would be physically superior to an Albion to an extent that it's almost not even funny.

Im Completely fine with Scaling ; I've used it as well, But your just comparing power levels and Stating 'Yea, Mael is Stronger than the albion, so his striking feats automatically become his' Because he has a higher power Level? This Logic is backwards and doesn't make any real Sense.

For example. Black sperm is Disaster Level: Dragon, While Beefcake(Who has Multi Mountain Striking) is Disaster level: Demon. Yes, Black Sperm is stronger(When i say stronger i mean BS Could beat beefcake, not he's physically stronger), but does he Automatically Gain all Weaker Monsters Feats? No, Because if i did that this would turn into an Amalgam/Composite Cav, With us both pulling feats from random weaker characters Because they characters were trying to Scale off have none.

Bottom line is, this doesn't suffice as proof. At all. Plus the Albion uses Peircing attacks, Not blunt Force I.E. Scaling becomes Moot.

Moving On, As i mentioned earlier, King has 4 Main Weapon Types(and the Max amount of transformations he can use at a time is 4, as of now). If Black sperm splits in 4, Thats still 2,862,225,040,000 Clones attacking Each weapon. I Mean the guardian can negate Blunt trauma, but only to a certain extent, its not tanking 2,862,225,040,000 Repeated Blows from Black Sperm(Considering The Guardians best Feat is tanking piercing attacks, it basically has no Blunt force Durability feats to its name).

And, in case you need any reminder, even an Albion was small mountain level in physicals(I'll just paste an earlier part of my opener):

"For one, Albion's were described to be as big as mountains and incredibly strong. But, more importantly, just prior to this, the physical capabilities of an Albion were shown at its fullest, when casual flicks of its arms were powerful enough to produce shockwaves that cut gigantic swathes through the Fairy King's forests, cuts the top off of a small mountain with enough force to make it bounce into the air(via a shockwave as well) and cut the entirety of the Sacred Tree in half , which is stated to be stronger than steel and bigger than mountains:"

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 117 and Chapter 118

So, yeah. Even a significantly weaker Guardian can no-sell mountain+ level blunt force, meaning, Black Sperm isn't damaging it with his attacks and it alone is more than enough to occupy him, while King can concentrate his own efforts on quickly eliminating Tatsumaki. Now, for the Guardians own physical abilities. They're just as potent as its defences, as see when it blitzes and physically overwhelms/damages 4 Commandment Mael:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

Ive addressed this feat earlier.

I've already shown above and in the different sections that I believe 4 Commandment Mael is at the least Mach 1,200 and mountain+ level physically, so completely overwhelming him like this is a preposterous feat that, considering Black Sperms own lack of good durability(unless he becomes Golden Sperm) and the Guardians durability, would allow him to run around while oneshotting Sperms and tanking their hits, until they're forced to fuse into Golden Sperm, at which point King eviscerates him with the 1st Form Spirit Spears energy blast.

Guardian is not tanking 2,862,225,040,000 Hits from Black Sperm. Especially when his beat durability feat is tanking Slicing attacks from the Albion.

3rd Form Chastiefol: Fossilization

This form is very haxy. When the 3rd Form pierces an opponent, it can turn them into stone, making it essentially the perfect counter for Sperms splitting,

All Black Sperm has to do is discard he infected part of his Body, He has the ability to control his Body at will:

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  • Scan 1-3: Shows Black sperm manipulating his Body at will.

once King realises what's going on and an easy way to instantly kill Golden Sperm, once Black Sperm inevitably decides to fuse into one to combat King's far greater power

He only fuses as a last resort, something he won't be needing here

. King used it in combination with the Gurdian that was restraining Ban to turn the immortal into stone, so it should nullify even Black Sperms power

This is all assuming:

  • 1. Tasumaki doesn't restrain Guardian
  • 2. Tatsumaki doesn't snap his neck
  • 3. Gaurdian can actually restrain BS, Someone who can casually Clones himself Thousands of times, even though Guardian has no Blunt force feats on BS Level.

AND, You're forgetting that the spear doesn't kill the person is turns to Stone, it only stops there movements, Luckily for Tatsumaki Her shields even work when unconscious:

Chapter 73
Chapter 73

Hell, Tatsumaki could just make a barrier to Protect Black Sperm if worst comes to worst:

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Chapter 94
  • Scans 1-2: Show Tatsumaki erecting powerful barriers

4th Form

This form summons a huge plant that can attack with both its branches and the energy blasts it can emit from its "mouth". It's applications can be seen best of all when King uses it against the skeletons enhanced by Meliodas' darkness, disintegrating all of them to dust by creating an explosion:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 227

Black Sperm has Tanked Mountain level attacks from Genos, this isn't doing much.

In other words, it primarily attacks with energy blasts. We could scale these off of those used by the 1st Form, but a more failsafe way of scaling with this attack that I'll be using here. We know that the weakest possible version of Sunflowers blast used by BoS King was capable of damaging an Albion and matching blasts with it, essentially stalemating it:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 117

King and the Albion didn't really 'Match' Blasts, King was sent Flying Back(Injured, may i add) into some Rocks, You're being a bit too lenient of what 'Matching an attack' is, but Alright. Doesn't matter all too much.

The reason for this being the best method of scaling the blast is that an Albion is canonically the strongest of the Demon Clan's grunt monsters, having a power level of 5,500 across the board. In comparison, the power of a Red Demon only ranges from 1,000 to 1,300. Why do I bring up the Red Demon, you ask? Well, a blast from a Red Demon, which is canonically far weaker than an Albion was comparable in size to a fully grown Sacred Tree, which was stated to be bigger than any mountain and shown to absolutely dwarf hills and have clouds at the bottom of its base:

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Seven Days Chapter 7

Alright i have a few problems with this:

A: The explosion from the Red Demon didn't dwarf the Sacred Tree ; the Sacred tree was in the distance, not right next to the explosion, Youre sense of perception if all off. This is the same as me equating the Ancient King is bigger than Mountains via him dwarfing some in the distance:

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B: Your realise that explosion barely dwarfed some Trees Right? I Kid you not, if you look closely at that Scan you see the explosion barely Cover a few Trees. Now, unless they Trees are massive in size, That explosion isn't anywhere Near Mountain Level, Even Large Hill Level:

Grey Lines outline the Tree figures that we can see while they're being burnt
Grey Lines outline the Tree figures that we can see while they're being burnt

So Sunflower Looses all its Scaling.

Scans can be provided at will for the Sacred Tree's size. Scaling to this Red Demon, which Kings blasts should easily be stronger than, considering even an exponentially weaker King matched an Albion, which is canonically stronger than a Red Demon in every way. So yeah, even Sunflowers blasts should have easily mountain+ power when using that feat.

Debunked that for now.

5th Form Chastiefol: Increase

This form works by separating the Spirit Spear into a large cloud of swords that can move at extremely high speeds. Considering the absolute lack of piercing resistance feats your team has,

Black Sperm is resistance to any and all piercing attacks ; all that would do is make him multiply. Tatsumaki deflected Evil Natural waters Blast:

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Now, In Real life Water jets can cut throw such things like Metal and Stone, However, Regardless if kings attack is stronger, She can Still just deflect it/Take control of it with her TK, as she's done with attacks(Like against Boros ship) Before.

a large amount of Increase swords moving at the same speeds it did when King used it against Mael, where it was able to outspeed and tag a significantly above Mach 1,200 opponent, will shred a large number of Black Sperms into pieces

Woe betide King if he attempts to put Black sperm down using Piercing attacks

at the same time and keep Tatsumaki very, very occupied, since she's never had to deal with a large number of projectiles

Blatantly False, she reacted to a similar number of Boros ship shells:

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this powerful moving at these speeds before and likely can't, especially not while King's bombarding her with powerful energy blasts from Sunflower and/or Chastiefol from the side.

You mean attacks which can be easily deflected? And You Keep forgetting that Tatsuamki is used to dealing with large numbers, like how she dealt with 10,000 Black Sperm clones while having brain damage(Which I've showcased many, many times), She isn't being overwhelmed.

And yes, the Increase is very potent. It was able to slice through a weapon made out of one of the Commandments with ease, which contained 5% of the Demon King's power, and it damaged/outsped 4 Commandment Mael decisively, moving faster than he could react:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 281

Well after a closer inspection of this Scan :

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King tags Mael A Grand total of 3 Times, which is impressive don't get me wrong, But your making it out be like Mael had absolutely No Shot at dodging; when he clearly did.

That should be it for the Spirit Spear for now. There are some more forms, one of which I may explore in my next

Jeez that was Long, anyway. King won't be able to use Increase/his other techniques due to Tatsumaki's life force Manipulation, more on that later.

Rebuttal: II

Now i noticed in your post you made to separate sections, One for Tatsumaki's TP, The other countering specific Feats. well to make things neater i divided these up into 2 Sections respectively.

Black Sperm

Right, so the reason that I'm making this into one section is that there are a couple of fallacious feats you're scaling from for a lot of your 2 characters different stats. Namely, the Atomic Samurai speed feat(only good speed feat for either Tatsumaki or Black Sperm) and the Genos-Arm-Ripping feat(used for both Black Sperms strength and Tatsumaki's durability via shields). Let's start with the Atomic Samurai one.

My main problem with this isn't the fact that Atomic Samurai is a Mach 900 character(he is), it's that Black Sperm is able to consistently react to his slice-and-dice sword slashes, because he clearly can't. Yes, you showed him reacting to a casual surprise attack from Atomic Samurai, but, what you failed to mention was that, when the latter got serious, he was able to speedblitz multiple copies of Black Sperm at the same time and, in the last 2 scans i provided, even managed to cut several different Black Sperms into many, many pieces before they could cross a distance of a couple of meters and attack him:

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One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 63
  • Scan 1: Blitzes several Black Sperms with a simple slash.
  • Scan 2: Cuts Black Sperm many times before the latter can react(and he was clearly attempting to dodge attacks when possible, as shown when he dodged Samurai's surprise attack)
  • Scan 3: Blitzes and cuts 5 different Black Sperms attacking him from different sides into several pieces each before they can attack him
  • Scan 4 and 5: Blitzes even more Back Sperms and cuts all of them into tiny pieces before they can reach him.

In other words, no, Black Sperm isn't even in the same general tier of speed as the Mach 900+ Atomic Samurai, who, when actually using slice-and-dice attacks(for lack of a better word, I mean the attacks where he cuts his opponents into dozens of pieces) blitzed and cut multiple copies of Black Sperm into small pieces before they could even move a few meters.

Well yes, Atomic Samurai did manage to Tag Black Sperm (Repaetdly), But what you decided not to show is right after Black Sperm Starts beating the hell out of him:

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Chapter 63

Atomic Samurai blitzes Black Sperm for a bit, Black Sperm dodges Atomic smaurais slice and Beats the crap out of him for a bit, i don't see how these 2 characters are not in the same league when it comes to Speed.

Your only speed feat is now null and void, since Tatsumaki's only feat is more scaling to Black Sperm, who's scaling to Atomic Samurai, his only good speed feat, is now debunked. Basically, I can and will now argue that King blitzes your team silly.

This simply isn't the case for Tatsumaki ; Atomic Samurai got absolutely Blitzed by Form 1 Garou:

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Chapter 83

Though what happens when Tatsumaki fights Garou? She Keeps up with him; tags him multiple times despite suffering from Brain damage:

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Chapter 83

Hell, at one point she Tags Garou, and restrains him for a Lil bit:

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Chapter 83

So Yes, Both Speed feats still Check out.

The other feat is the Genos-arm-ripping one. This one is really problematic for a number of reasons. For one, we don't know the power of the blast Genos launched at Asura Rhino as opposed to the one he launched at that mountain and equating them is fallacious for multiple reasons:

Genos was extremely weakened and heavily damaged when he attacked Asura Rhino

Wait, What? How? He got knocked over, yes, but he was still spamming attacks like theres no tommorow:

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Chapter 10

Genos only used a onehanded blast as opposed to a full power double handed one that destroyed the mountain

Tbh I'm pretty much lowballing Genos Here, Because in actuality Genos destroyed not just One Mountain, but another one Behind it, it should actually be Mountain+ to be fair:

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So if 2 hands is Mountain+, then 1 hand should be what? Mountain Level or so? Small Mountain? Regardless this backs up my Scaling, as it doesn't change anything all too much.

Even if we ignore this and assume the blast was at the same strength, said blast only destroyed a small portion of a mountain as can be seen better in the manga, as opposed to the anime(where e we only get an unclear background shot), which would reduce Genos and, subsequently Asura Rhino's feat to small mountain/large hill level

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One Punch Man Manga Chapter 9

With that said and done, Im pretty sure I've dealt with this with the Scan i just posted/

And then there's still the fact that Asura Rhino merely attacked Genos with a casual backhand, which Genos "tanked". However, Black Sperm specifically held onto his arm and ripped it off(it's not like it was done with a regular punch, he specifically ripped it off). In other words, saying Black Sperms attack must be stronger than Asura Rhino's just because it ripped off Genos' arm when Asura Rhino's didn't is fallacious, because, unlike Sperm, Asura didn't use a physical attack specifically intended to rip off Genos arm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Same amount of Force required to Punch Something(and break it) would the the same amount of force needed to Tear it apart. Both Methos work by overloading the materials ultimate tensile strength, therefore Each Should be able to be applies to one another.

Tatsumaki

Now The last Showing ill Be showcasing on Tatsuamkai's Raw strength is her feat of Bring down the Meteor i mentioned Earlier, and Causing a Mountain+ Sized explosion or so.

Right off of the bat, I have a problem with this. The destructive force of the meteor brought down by Tatsumaki's TK =/= the destructive force of her TK. Equating them is fallacious, because all Tatsumaki had to do was pull the rock down into the atmosphere, at which point the speed generated from it being pulled in by Earth's gravitational field would be a large part of its subsequent destructive force(along with its size, of course), a part that Tatasumaki's TK had nothing to do with.

Maybe i didn't explain my self correctly, this wasn't to show Tatsuamki specifically made the crater, But to show she can Casually rain down Mountain/Mountain+ Sized attacks whenever she chooses to.

As you can see Below, the Ancient King is big Enough that he compares to the size of Mountain, Below you'll see Him Dwarfing a Small Hill, like it beryl comes up to his ankle, Meaning that Ancient King Himself is about Large Hill Sized.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but where in that GIF is the Ancient King dwarfing a hill, or anything that even remotely resembles one? I looked at the GIF multiple times and then looked up the scene on Youtube and watched that twice and absolutely nowhere do I see the this "hill" your referring to. Quite frankly, I don't know what you're referring to.

Well we See him next to a Mound(Which I'm assuming was a Small hill) Because its bigger than the tree infront of it:

Small Hill/Mound.
Small Hill/Mound.

I don't see it being anything above small to, at best, medium hill sized.

Meh, Even if he's Medium hill sized, it still doesn't really Change the Feat all that Much, just brings it down from Mountain+ to Mountain Level. Theres still the factor that the Meteor is very, very Hot to take into consideration.

Scan 1: Shows AK Standing next to some Small Hills, absolutely dwarfing them(Making him at least large Hill sized)

There are no hills to be found anywhere in that GIF, at least not ones that are dwarfed by the Ancient King.

Looked like a Hill to Me.... But anyway, i guess i can Agree on him being medium sized hill level, as it doesn't affect the Feat that Much.

Scan 2: Shows Tatsuamki calling the Meteor down and the end result of it, a Huge crater Dwarfing AK Body

At best, this proves that the meteors Tatsumaki can call down are capable of dwarfing the Ancient Kings skeleton with their impact explosions, which would be smaller than its actual body(which is about mid-hill sized at best). This a large hill level feat, small mountain at the absolute best. In other words, Tatsumaki's meteors(not her TK) can't inflict serious damage on King, who tanked small mountain level attacks in his weakest form, even if they were to somehow hit him despite his speed and Chastiefol, which could block them in a variety of different ways.

Ehhhh, Small Mountain would be Pushing it, But like i said, Doesn't affect the feat all to Much. Lets move on.

Life Force Manipulation

By Far Tatsumaki's Most Powerful Technique(And her go to method of execution). Basically, Everyone(Even Non Physics) Have a certain energy flowing within Them. Some call it Chi, Or Aura etc etc, the name doesn't really matter, however what is important is that Tatsumaki can Control it, essentially use it to Break and Rip the Neck/Body parts of whoever She's Fight, As Shown Below. This is Tats Most dangerous technique, that could Very well Oneshot King, as he Lacks Regenerative feats in order to suggest he can regrow his head:

You seemed to have missed the part where this ability, too, depends on the opponents power to be successful, as Tatsumaki and Fubuki literally explain directly after she tries and fails to kill Saitama using this exact ability:

One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 102
One Punch Man Webcomic Chapter 102

Tatsumaki literally states that this ability also failed against Golden Sperm and 1st Form Monster Garou because they were too strong. So, unless you can provide actual feats for her successfully using this against opponents that could tank mountain level blows while an exponential amount less durable than current and have an energy supply great enough to fire off multi-mountain level energy attacks with no effort, it's useless here.

Im Sorry for leaving this Out, But did you actually Read the Scan? Fubuki said and i quote 'My Sister has never encountered anyone above her level, so she likely Doesn't Know..... Strength of Will is directly related to psychic resistance. I Suspect the reason is dent work is thanks to Saitama Unusually Thick Spirit'

Now measuring Will is a finicky Thing, but lets take a closer Look at the only 3 people in the Series who've managed to resist Tats TP, and measure how strong there 'Will' is:

Golden Sperm

Most arrogant Guy ever. As i Mentioned earlier, When 2 Cells merge, They can't unfused. Basically, in order to shorten this down, Imagine you have several brothers and sisters, which you had to absorb/kill them to gain there power, Thats what Golden Sperm had to do:

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  • Scan 1-2: Explain what i just said

However, Golden sperm is still so arrogant that he wanted to absorb the Remaining 100 Black Sperm cells, killing them:

Chapter 80 | 'You guys lost your reason to exist'
Chapter 80 | 'You guys lost your reason to exist'

As for Garou, His Determination led him to abandon his humanity and Become a monster ; coming to hate the hypocritcal Heroes and claiming that Absolute Evil Must exist, Even going so far as to Hunt 100+ Heroes to prove him endeavour. Hell, he even puts himself higher than God:

Chapter 83
Chapter 83

As for Saitama's determination, Well even His Training Regime was hard, none stop for 3 Years in a Row, He even said some days he wanted to die, others he vomited Blood, some his arms Pooped. Hell, in the summer he didn't even use Air conditioning:

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Chapter 11

King, the sin of SLOTH(Laziness)( Who litteraly just Dumped the responsibility of watching the Fairy kingdom onto his Sister, And then when she died couldn't even be bothered to Go check on the forest, and see that Ban had remade it) doesn't have sufficient will in order to say He can resist this. Regardless, even if Tatsuamki can't break Kings neck(Which I'm convinced she can), She can still restrain him, like she Restrained Garou for a while:

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(ONE)Chapter 83

Now you may be asking, why is that important? Well, King relies on Hand movements in order to control his Spear; in almost every Scan i could find Kings making some hand sign in order to control his spear:

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All Scans of King using hand movements to control his spear

So its either Tatsuamki Snaps kings neck(More likely) Or Tatsumaki restrains King, not allowing him to use his Spear, in which case Black Sperm beats King to death.

Rebuttals III : General Counters

Kings most deadly Technique, and while Tatsumaki has no direct Counter to it, all she has to do is Not get Hit by the spear, which she can do By Redirecting Kings attacks, Or just Putting up her Shields to Block them.

Ok, so you admit that, once King tags Tatasumaki with his increase or Chastiefol even once, she's done for. That's a good start. Regardless, Tatsumaki hasn't shown the ability to react to dozens of Mach 1,500 projectiles in the forms of Increase swerving around and attacking her from multiple different directions, so she isn't redirecting them.

To be completely Honest, her reacting to 10,000 Mach 900 Characters(Seeing as were using Speed stacking) Means she can Easily React to a few Mach 1500 Projectiles. However I'm not even sure Kings Mach 1500, But Ill bring that up in my next Post.

As for shielding from them, her shields have no piercing resistance feats, nor do they have any energy durability feats, so I see them just getting eviscerated by Sunflower or either 1st Form Chastiefol's piercing barrages or multi-mountain energy blasts, at which point Increase impales her at speeds faster than she can react to.

Good thing she can Deflect attacks, isn't it?

However, Black Sperms counter to this is much easier, as even if Black sperm gets a scratch, Making that cut worse won't do anything, whatsoever , I've already showcased how ineffective piercing weapons are against Black Sperm.

True, Disaster won't be effective against Black Sperm.

One thing we can agree on.

Form 1: Chastifol

Kings regular Old Spear. Now This Technique is easily counterable By Both Members on my Team. Firstly ill ask, Does king use TK To control his Spear? i honestly Cannot remember, but if he does, Then Tatsuamki has the ability to counter Espers's Attacks:

It wasn't ever explicitly stated. But, since other people with telekinetic abilities like Gloxinia or Helbram never attempted to take control of his spear despite being more powerful than him as of certain parts of the story, nor the other way around, I would think not.

Ehhhhhhh.

However, if it doesn't, Its still Countable. If you Remember back in my post, i already discussed how Tatsuamki is a Multi-Million Tonner, I See no reason why She can't just Take control of Kings Spear and Stop Him From using it.Chastiefol Obviously has Mass, So i see no Reason why she cannot just Control it. She's done something similar Against Boros Ship, where she Halted the movements of Several of the Bomb Shells(Meaning she can and will do this IC):

I thought this would eventually come up. Well, as I demonstrated in the Spirit Spear section, King can switch his forms at incredible speeds and does so consistently, meaning that stopping the Spear will be a pain. Not to mention that, when King does switch his forms, he's been shown to be able to make it change positions and break out of grips, as he did against Mael when the latter caught his Chastiefol, despite Mael's far greater power:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 72 and Chapter 275
  • Scans 1 through 5: King attacks Helbram, fluently switching through the Spirit Spears forms, rendering all of Helbram's attacks useless and striking him from all sides.
  • Scans 6 to 7: Mael is holding up the 1st Form Chastiefol King launched at him, so, to retaliate, King transforms it, making it switch positions and uses the Guardian to punch Mael into the sky. This proves that by switching forms, King can make the Spirit Spear move to different positions.

In other words, taking control of the Spear isn't a viable option here, especially not with 4 of them floating around, including the Guardian form, which has enough physical strength to break out of Tatsu's TK anyway, at least based on the feats you showed me..

Well it seems this was Copy and Pasted as well, So lemme just say I've already addressed this earlier.

Form 2: Guardian

Lets just say, i don't think it can get through Tatsuamki's Shields, and if anything she can use her TK To restrain it. And again, BS Will just multiply.

Tatsumaki's TK doesn't have enough feats to suggest it can restrain a multi-mountain level Guardian

Well i don't know if Life Force manipualtion would work on Guardian, as iirc its not alive ; However, Unless it weighs Millions upon millions of Tons, Tatsumaki suspends his shit up in the air.

and you've only shown Black Sperm multiplying from blunt force attacks(yes, Bangs attacks with his martial art actually cut through things and are thus not blunt force trauma, which is Black Sperm was cut into pieces by them).

Im Assuming you mean i haven't Shown Black Sperm Multiplying from Blunt force attacks, Well as you cans see here he gets hit by Sweet mask to No Avail:

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Form 4: Sunflower

Now, IIRC King hasn't used this in his fight against Mel, so I'm assuming this Blast is still Around Mountain Level as it matched the Albion's Blast, However, Black Sperm could straight up Tank this due to his feats with Genos(and Genos is mountain level),

No, he can't. Webcomic Genos is only small mountain level and, as such, tanking an attack from him isn't enough.

Im using Composite feats Here.

Besides, I'm not even confident Sperm did tank it. Isn't it likely that he died to it and then one of his clones attacked Genos from the side, seeing as to how the big ass arm he had when he was beating up Atomic Samurai and attacking Tatsu wasn't present on the clone that ripped off Genos' arm?

This is false, because we get the same type of situation when AS Is fighting Black Sperm; BS Turns into a big arm, which is attack by AS, But it docent retain its shape, It simply goes back to its original Form:

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Chapter 63

So Yes, BS Tanked it. Unless were assuming Black Sperm has more clones, which were then Killed by Genos, which is pretty much unsupported by anything.

as i showcased in the durability Section. And Tatsumaki could just straight up deflect the attack:So this attack would be Pretty much Useless

Tatsumaki's only redirected Natural Waters fodder level blasts, she isn't doing anything to Chastiefol's or Sunflower's mountain to multi-mountain level blasts.

It doesn't matter how Strong the Blasts are, As there is no perfectly good reason the attacks won't deflect.

Rebuttals IV : Strategy/Conclusion

Strategy

This part isn't Too complex. To start things off, all characters should be at least on Par with each other when it comes to Speed, So they Shouls be able to React to each other.

I disagree. Your best speed feat involves faulty scaling to being generally on-par with a Mach 900 character, which I debunked, while I've shown King outspeeding a significantly above Mach 1,200+ character. In other words, even if i accept the Atomic Samurai scaling, King's faster and with my debunking of it, he's going to be blitzing you all over the place.

Ive dealt with this already. As for BS, Maybe he could be blitzed(if you accept speed stacking), However, It Wont do you any good at all, just make things worse for you by multiplying Black Sperm. However, Tatsumaki isn't getting blitzed at all. Reacting to 10,000 Mach 900 Clones while having brain damamge> Outspeeding A character above Mach 1200.

Tatsumaki should be able to get control of Chatiefol Via Being a Multi-million tonner when it comes to TK, Immobilizing it for the Most part, Before using Life force Manipulation to Snap his neck:

I've explained multiple times why this won't worked, so I'll just copy and paste it:

Well, as I demonstrated in the Spirit Spear section, King can switch his forms at incredible speeds and does so consistently, meaning that stopping the Spear will be a pain.

No, it won't. The Spear just changes Shape, thats it, its not like it disperses and a new Spear takes its place. if Tatsumaki has her TP Locked onto the spear, its going to stay locked on:

As you can see, Guardian turns into a Spear, They're made out of the same material(Sacred tree). If Tatsuamki locks onto it, she'll stay Locked onto it.
As you can see, Guardian turns into a Spear, They're made out of the same material(Sacred tree). If Tatsuamki locks onto it, she'll stay Locked onto it.

Not to mention that, when King does switch his forms, he's been shown to be able to make it change positions and break out of grips, as he did against Mael when the latter caught his Chastiefol, despite Mael's far greater power:

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Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 72 and Chapter 275
  • Scans 1 through 5: King attacks Helbram, fluently switching through the Spirit Spears forms, rendering all of Helbram's attacks useless and striking him from all sides.
  • Scans 6 to 7: Mael is holding up the 1st Form Chastiefol King launched at him, so, to retaliate, King transforms it, making it switch positions and uses the Guardian to punch Mael into the sky. This proves that by switching forms, King can make the Spirit Spear move to different positions.

In other words, taking control of the Spear isn't a viable option here, especially not with 4 of them floating around, including the Guardian form,

And does Mel have Multi-Million tonnes Lifting Feats? Because Mael Holding onto the spear would using Lifting strength, Meaning Tatsumaki can still lift it due to having superior feats.

which has enough physical strength to break out of Tatsu's TK anyway, what with being multi-mountain level physically, which is above any feats you've showed for Tatsumaki's TK.

Well Life force manipulation has nothing to do with Strength, However theres a smarter way for Tatsumaki to beat the guardian, and thats using the Meteor. Now i know Guardian is resistant to blunt force(Though you haven't shown this), However the Meteor brings a while new aspect with it; Heat, it melted the Flesh off the AK And melted the surrounding Stone, and Guardian lacks heat resistance feats:

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  • Scan 2-3: Shows the meteor melting AK
  • Scan 1: Show AK Tanking missles(Heat attacks.)

If King somehow manages to use Chastiefol (Even though he can't) After Tatsuamki tries to restrain it, Tats Can still Deflect all of Kings attacks,

Tatsumaki isn't redirecting multiple energy blasts and slashes/strikes from 1st Form Chastiefol, Guardian/Increase and Sunflower at the same time, since they're both faster(remember the Mael feat) and more powerful than anything she's redirected thus far.

Why Cant She? She can certainly react to them, and it doesn't matter if they're more powerful then anything she's deflected, As long as they're energy blasts, she can Re-direct them.

and BS Can just Split his Body/multiply whenever harm comes his way.

Black Sperm has never multiplied from being disintegrated by multi-mountain level energy blasts, so we can safely assume a 1st Form Chastiefol blast can wipe him out(and all of the clones he may produce), especially since it's AOE is potentially great enough to cover kilometres(remember, it dwarfed an Albion when it as far weaker). Yeah, Sperms useless here.

I Already debunked the Multi-Mountain energy Blasts earlier, and you're underestimating How Many Clones Black Sperm can Casually dish Out, Here a visual representation of 10,000 Clones

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May seem unnecessary, but a visual representation Helps. This is Merely 10,000.
May seem unnecessary, but a visual representation Helps. This is Merely 10,000.

Next, Tatsuamki quickly Breaks his Neck so he can't Do Anything and Dies:

Tatasumaki lacks the feats to break the neck of a character that tanked mountain level blunt force while exponentially weaker and also won't have the opportunity to do so while being bombarded by attacks from several Sprit Spears from all directions.

Ive already addressed how King can't resist life Force manipulation

OR, Black Sperm Quickly disperses 10,000 Clones, Over and Over and Over Again, to the Point where King cannot Hurt any of them as piercing attacks/blunt force attacks just Split him up, and He gets Overwhelmed, while they Beat him to Death.

Not happening, for multiple reasons. The first and most simple would be, that, unlike Black Sperm, King can fly with those big ass wings on his back(even without them, but that's beside the point), meaning Black Sperm isn't going to hit him if king doesn't want him to.

Black Sper has shown Capabilities of manipulating his Body, and as such, will be able to reach King wether he's flying or not:

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Then there's the fact that King can simply send his Guardian, which is durable enough to completely no-sell hits on Black Sperms level(mountain+ at very best, since it no-sold 3C Mael's hits) and has enough blunt force to oneshot regular Black Sperms(or anything short of Golden Sperm), to deal with him while he uses the remaining 3 Spirit Spears to whack and blast Tatsumaki into submission.

Ive already addressed the Mael having Mountain+ Striking issue, and Again, Gaurdian has its limits, it isn't No Selling Billions of BS Hits.

Then, since Black Sperms blunt force can't damage Guardian and he can't reach King, he'll be forced to transform into Golden Sperm to retaliate against Guardian, at which point King'll simply send a second Spirit Spear in Fossilization form down to pierce Sperm from behind(or from the front while Guardians restraining him).

Actually, Nows a Good time to bring this up; Does the fossilisation Spear actually have any Speed feats? Are we just assuming Each Spear moves at the Same Speed? I Mean the only time kings used this ability on is a fodder Holy Knight and Ban, who he had to restrain First, it doesn't seem like an attack King can use to tag such opponents of such Speed.

In other words, Black Sperm is a non-factor due to his inability to tag King because he can fly and because all of his methods of attack are hard-countered by the 2nd Form Guardian, which is too durable for him too harm with his strikes.

This same type of strategy worked Against Atomic Samurai(Who uses peiricing attacks Like King, although on a much weaker scale):

Atomic Samurai is slower than King, doesn't have multiple different weapons, hax, energy blasts, the ability to attack from range. He can't fly either. What was your point, again?

They Both mainly Use piercing weapons. And Seeing as Guardians Durability Comes from Scaling Mael to a Albion(Which isn't Small-Mountain level), Kings energy Blasts are Only Barely Mountain+ etc, Etc, Energy Blasts are the only thing you have going for you RN

My strategy is simple. King attacks Tatsumaki with Sunflower, Chastiefol(Form 1) and and Increase from all sides while flying in the air, who then promptly dies due to lacking feats for tanking or dealing with energy blasts or speed at the calibre of Sunflower/Chastiefol and Increase respectively.

Ive dealt with the Speed Issue, And you do still realise Tatsumaki can Control the Spears using TK, And can just reflect the attacks? Hell, whats stopping Tatsumaki from sending His own spear Back at King?

Meanwhile, Guardian deals with Black Sperm until the latter becomes Golden Sperm, at which point he gets fossilised by a second Spirit Spear or blasted to dust by a 3rd(at this point, Tatsu should already be dead).

Guardian. isn't. Tanking. 2 Trillion. Black Sperm. Hits. Especially when all his feats are tanking piercing attacks Via the Albion.

Conclusion

Well most of your Scaling comes from the Albion, which i debunked being Small Mountain Level using PEIRCING Attacks, and slicing something in half doesn't make you That Level. Meaning that Guardian now how 0 Blunt force durability feats to Scale off of. King Now has no Blunt force durability feats, meaning he can be oneshot by either member of my team.

And unless there's actual Scaling, you can't just say Mael is stronger than the Albion Due to power levels, because using that Same Logic and applying every Disater level : Demon monsters feats to Black Sperm, a Disaster Level: Dragon, Black Sperm becomes Multi Mountain etc etc.

I Also debunked the idea of the Albion having Mountain level in Energy projection ; thus making Sunflower all but useless Here. Chastiefol's own Blasts did however manage to dwarf the Albion, However the Albion still isn't Mountain sized Via using the same logic you used to determine Ancient kings size to Albion. To be honest I'm not even completely Sure Lightball of Love is mountain Level..... But thats for my next Post

Ive also still not seen a good counter for Tatsumaki using TK To control Kings weapons, apart form things like 'Mael coulnd' even though Mael has no lifting feats to his name. Or a Reason why A Simple Neck Snap won't Kill Him, and even if Life force manipulation can't Kill King, it can restrain him, as its been shown King needs to make Hand movements To Control his Spear.

All in All:

  • Pretty much all Scaling to the Albion, this means Mael Striking, Guardians durability, Sunflower being Mountain+, Albion being Small Mountain is debunked, seeing as the albion isn't Small Mountain , uses Piercing attacks and isn't Small Mountain Level
  • The Idea of Our team being overwhelmed is Hilarious, as King can only manifest 4 weapons at a time, So thats 2 Trillion Clones per Spear + Tatsuamki doing her Esper Antics.
  • Speed gap is pretty Close for Tatsuamki and King
  • King has no Heat Feats in order to suggest he can tank a Hot Meteor
  • Kings Weapons can be easily restrained/Deflected

All in All, Kings looking to get Oneshot Atm, with no counter to basically everything i just mentioned. Hell a meteor can finish king off as its a heat attack which melted through Stone. My Team win pretty easily

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#39 Posted by DeathHero61 (18141 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes. I will definitely read this. Tag for each post.

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#40 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes. I will definitely read this. Tag for each post.

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#41 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for more attention

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#43 Posted by Raw_Ability (124 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and after every post

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#44 Edited by vsw (2605 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: forgot to tag you; better late then never

And bump for More voters

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#45 Posted by DeathHero61 (18141 posts) - - Show Bio

Whatever happened to this?

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#46 Posted by shirso (3153 posts) - - Show Bio
Online