I had in mind post-shinju tree absorption with rinne-sharingan, but I didn't specify that to him when we agreed to start the CAV. I just said "Juubi" so I don't know which one he'll agree to debate
Tbh you have to be a OP fan (or just be knowledgeable on consistency within the series as it is pretty wacky at times) to see the emphasis of an argument here for the admirals, mainly in the speed department. That being said I'm honestly interested to see how Shirso lays it all on the table but this by no means is going to be easy due to going against Madara of all people who has a feat of every variety.
Madara Uchiha was the infamous leader of the Uchiha clan, legendary co-founder of the Hidden Leaf Village, and one of the most powerful beings of time, as well as one of the top 5 strongest characters in the Narutoverse.
Born in the era of Warring States, Madara grew up in a land of no peace, constantly fighting and clashing with the rival Senju clan. Every once in a while, he would meet up with his friend and rival at the time, Hashirama Senju. They had many similarities, and soon developed a close relationship as friends. Together they dreamed of a world where there would be no more battle- but only peace, serenity, and freedom. But alas, they discovered their true identities, as they were hiding it before ( to meet without trouble) and eventually were forced to turn against each other. Even after more than a decade of constant battle, Madara could never once defeat Hashirama, despite awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan. And Hashirama could never build the resolve to kill his friend. Eventually, Madara conceded his defeat and agreed to Hashirama's pleas to cease the fighting once and for all, ending the years and bloody history of the Uchiha's and Senju.
Together they founded the Hidden Leaf Village, so that no more children would have to die in battle, and to bring together the two clans as well as affiliated tribes. But Madara and Hashirama disagreed on the future of the village, and they had different ideologies of peace. Hashirama desired to cooperate with other nations and share peace and wealth, but Madara insisted that he controlled the world by himself, so that the peace was guaranteed and never lost. Hashirama was then elected Hokage, arousing concern and jealousy from Madara, and decided that the Senju's dominance threatened the future of the Uchiha. After reading the Uchiha Stone Tablet, Madara decided Konoha was a failed attempt at peace, and tried to convince his people and colleagues the same. But no one would listen to him, so he abandoned his village and defected. He then sought out the Nine Tailed Demon Fox and forced it under his control, and with his newly found power he challenged Hashirama. They fought to exhaustion, and Hashirama won yet again, despite Madara giving everything he had.
Hashirama killed Madara, and news of Madara's death spread like a wildfire. However Madara had a failsafe, and scheduled for Izanagi to activate after his death and rewrite reality, bringing him back to life. Then Madara transplanted Hashirama's flesh into himself, and used it activate The Rinnegan. He than began to mastermind his lifelong goal, The Eye of the Moon plan. Over the years, Madara orchestrated key events and conducted many happenings in the Naruto world. In particular, he knew his life was waning and transplanted both his Rinnegan into Nagato without the boy's knowing, in hopes he'd used the outer path to bring him back to life. He then found Obito at the end of the Third Shinobi World War, and manipulated him into carrying out many of his plans. Eventually, on his true deathbed, Madara entrusted him with his name, to complete actions in accordance to his will.
Powers and Abilities:
Madara is a God-tier in the Nardoverse, and one of the most powerful shinobi in history, as well as arguably the strongest Uchiha who ever lived. Madara was strong enough to defeat all 5 Kage at once, and later the Tailed Beast with ease. He has a vast amount of special and unique powers and abilities, ranging from country busting meteors to reality warping illusions.
Madara has so many feats that I didn't think it'd be fair to restrict them to just after his Juubi transformation, so I will be including all of them in this opener (I will be debating his Juubi version, however).
Madara is capable of-
Superhuman strength
Superhuman speed/reflexes
Superhuman agility and heightened senses
Superhuman durability
Precognition via Sharingan (can foresee his oppnents next attack with the slightest muscle tension in their body)
Technique mimicry via sharingan (can memorize and copy attacks and powers after seeing them once)
Illusion creation (genjutsu)
Telepathy
Attack reflection
Fire manipulation
Gravity manipulation
Soul manipulation
Lightning Manipulation
Energy Manipulation
Air manipulation
Wood manipulation
Poison manipulation
Low level Reality Warping via Izanagi
Summoning
Flight/levitation
Chakra absorption
Can create invisible clones
Regeneration (Low-Godly)
That's just scratching the surface
Chakra and Physical Prowess:
Madara was born with extremely powerful chakra, which has been described as foul and evil. Chakra is the moldable energy found present in every living being, and allows the user to gain powers and perform special techniques known as jutsu. There are 3 categories of jutsu. Ninjutsu (powers), Taijutsu (hand to hand combat), and Genjutsu (illusions and sensory manipulation). Madara was quite versed in all three of them.
Ninjustu:
Madara was one of the few Shinobi in history capable of utilizing all 5 basic Nature Transformations (Fire, water, earth, wind and lightning), as well as Yin-Yang release. Because of this, he has demonstrated massive, powerful, and destructive ninjutsu's.
Fire Release (Katon)-
Being a member of the Uchiha Clan, Madara had a natural affinity for Fire Release. He was capable or using large-scale, fire based attacks that caused widespread devastation, such as the Great Fire Annihilation
Gallery
Fire Release: Majestic Destroyer Flame
He can spew dragon shaped fireballs to bombard his opponents:
Gallery
Or cover a large area with burning ash to act as a smokescreen:
Wood Release (Mokuton)-
Wood Release is an advanced nature transformation, a kekkei genkai that mixes water based and earth based chakra to make wooden constructs. Madara gained the ability to use it after transplanting Hashirama's DNA into himself, and it was later strengthened after he absorbed Hashirama's remaining chakra.
Wood Clone Jutsu: Users can create clones made of wood. These clones are versatile and are more durable than regular clones and can merge with trees or plants. They can also act as substitutions or body replacements-
Gallery
Wood Dragon Technique: The user creates a massive wooden dragon that is flexible and capable of restraining the targets, drain their chakra, or use it for an attack-
Gallery
Wood Release- Advent of a World of Flowering Trees: Madara can create a massive, dense forests that spans a large area (almost the size of a real forest) of thick flowering trees. The pollen produced by the flowers are then released to the atmosphere, and when inhaled, renders the target unconscious and motionless-
Gallery
Tengai Shinsei: After weaving three hand seals between himself and Susanoo, Madara calls down a gargantuan meteorite from space, that causes catastrophic damage and is equally as large. If the first one fails to destroy it's target, he can draw another to ensure annihilation-
Gallery
Sage Art (Yin Release): Madara is capable of using sage techniques (senjutsu) and Yin release, in order to fire a blast of lightning at his opponents-
Gallery
Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang - A technique that combines water and lightning release to make storm release, then infuses it with sages chakra to generate a thin beam of pure energy that was sharp enough to cut through a TSB rod-
Gallery
Dojutsu:
Sharingan (Copy Wheel Eye)-
The sharingan is the dojutsu kekkei genkai native to the Uchiha Clan. Madara awakened his as a child, and is extremely proficient and has excellent mastery over the eye.
Basically, the Sharingan comes with two standard abilities- "Eye of Insight", and "Eye of Hypnotism". The eye of insight allows the wielder to see another human's chakra flow, and gives them the clarity of perception. They can recognize when other's are under a genjutsu due to the irregularity in chakra flow, and differentiate people based on chakra and aura alone.
The Eye of Insight also allows chakra to perceive incredibly fast and minute things perfectly, such as reading lips or mimicking pencil movements. As the sharingan evolves the user can perform larger feats like mimicking entire body movements, techniques, and combos as well as perform them with near-perfect accuracy, and copy any ability they see (so long as they can repeat the ability).
The Eye of Hypnotism is the basic term for casting sharingan genjutsu, to either intimidate opponents, hypnotize them, or cast illusions. The genjutsu themselves vary widely on the user, but the strongest techniques in this regard are Izanagi and Izanami.
Izanagi- The Izanagi is a genjutsu that is cast on the user instead of other people. Once it is activated, the caster "removes the boundaries between reality and illusion within their personal space". This allows them to warp/manipulate reality to a certain degree, and control their own existence. It is most commonly used to rewrite their users own deaths.
For more information on the Sharingan, click here.
Mangekyo Sharingan -
Eternal Mangekyo
The Mangekyo Sharingan is an evolved version of the basic sharingan that very few people possess. It gives the user access to several new even more powerful techniques. There are multiple variations of the Mangekyo, as each users had a different design in their eye as well as a unique ability for each eye. It is unknown what the specific abilites of each Madara's eyes were, but he could use Susanoo
Susanoo:
Madara's Complete-Body Susanoo (perfect)
The Susanoo is a giant, energy construct projected by the user that shrouds their bodies and fights on their behalf (similar to an avatar). It is equipped with weapons, and is capable of performing all the justsu's of it's caster, but on a larger scale.
Yasaka Magatama - Madara can create large Magatama from his hands while using Susanoo. These magatama act as sharp projectiles (similar to shuriken). Madara can control their trajectory with a chakra thread:
Gallery
Rinnegan:
The Rinnegan is the final and most powerful of the Three Great Dojutsu (Sharingan, Byakugan, Rinnegan). It is considered to be the strongest and is rightfully so. It blesses the users with a variety of powers in a Godly caliber.
The most prominent being the Six Paths Sage Techniques.
Deva Path:
It allows the user to manipulate attractive and repulsive forces, as well as manipulate the pull of gravity. It works on both objects and people.
Almighty Push (Shinra Tensei)- A powerful repelling force of gravity that can blast all matter away from the user
Gallery
Universal Pull (Bansho Tenin) - Allows the user to manipulate the attractive force and pull things closer to them
Gallery
Catastrophic Planetary Devastation (Chibaku Tensei) - Allows the user to manifest a small black sphere with a powerful gravitational pull. The sphere is then released into the air and surrounding matter is drawn to the core and compacted into a levitating meteorite
Gallery
Pains Chibaku Tensei destroys several mountains worth of land. As you can see by the deep hole in the ground, it is an large island lvl feat
Madara can spam Chibaku tensei's and drop them like meteors. Casual country busting feat (they dwarf mountains)
Loading Video...
Asura Path:
Grants the user body modifications in the form of weaponized limbs and cybernetic parts
Gallery
Human Path:
Allows the user to read the mind of any target they lay their hands upon, it also allows them to rip the targets soul out of their bodies
Animal Path:
Allows the user to summon a wide variety of animal summonings
Preta Path:
Users can absorb any ninjutsu technique, as well as absorb other's chakra (energy)
Gallery
Naraka Path:
Allows the user to summon the King of Hell, and use it to interrogate users or restore damaged bodies.
Gallery
Outer Path (7th path)
Allows the user to manifest black receivers and pour their chakra through them, either paralyzing or manipulating the bodies of those who are pierced. It also allows them to summon the Gedo Statue, and use the Samsara of Heavenly Life technique to bring dead people back to life.
Gallery
Six Paths Sage Jutsu:
Six Paths Senjutsu is a heightened form/ability/mode for those who acquire the sages chakra. This can be done by becoming the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki or gaining Hagoromo or Hamura's power. Madara becomes the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki and gains Six Paths/Jinchuuriki mode, which comes with yet another set of new powers (this has become repetetive lol).
Ying-Yang Release (Onmyoton)-
Yin-Yang release is a combination of Yin Release (spiritual energy) and Yang release (physical energy). Users of Yin Yang release have access of every known ninjutsu in creation, and can nullify the effects of any and all known ninjutsu used against them, rendering it useless.
Truth-Seeking Ball (Goudama)-
Truth seeking balls/orbs are malleable spheres of black chakra composed of all 5 nature transformations and Yin-Yang release. They can be molded and shaped in different ways for a variety of purposes. Any power that comes in contact with the orbs will be negated, and the TSB have the ability to disintegrate all matter at a molecular level, completely destroying what they touch and nullifying regeneration of the Edo (similar to Dust Release and All-Killing Ash Bones).
Gallery
Limbo: Border Jail (Rinbo Hengoku)-
Madara creates invisible clones that exist in a dimension known as Limbo. The clones operate independently of the user and are impossible to detect or percieve.
Gallery
Taijutsu:
Loading Video...
^ Nuff said
God: Nativity of a World of Trees, Mugen Tsukonyomi and Rinne-Sharingan will not be used in this battle
Now that we've gotten his powers and abilities out of the way, it's time to move onto part 2, his feats.
Feats (respect Madara Uchiha)
Strength-
A single casual kick sends dozens of shinobi flying:
Overwhelms the 4th Shinobi alliance with a fire technique that takes dozens of water users to repel:
Gallery
Slices and dices through multiple fodder ninja
Tengei Shinsei recap:
Susanoo clones and wood style gg:
Gallery
The infamous mountain splitting feat:
Proceeds to outdo that feat and decapitates a chain of mountains:
Repels Bijuu Naruto with gust of wind from his fan:
Gallery
Uses Wood Release to restrain 8 tails and 9 tails who both have immense strength:
Gallery
Batters the Tailed Beast with his Limbo Clones:
Gallery
Chibaku Tensei vs Frost Country
Gallery
Madara could've busted the entire country. The debris from the meteor fragments were bigger than entire mountain ranges and you can see the curvature of the earth.
Speed-
Madara speedblitzes a group of shinobi:
Blitzes the crap out of Naruto, Sai, and Hashirama, and then dodged Sasuke's attacks:
Gallery
Keeps up with Tobirama's teleportation and batters him:
Gallery
Faster than Kamui and Flying Thunder God:
Gallery
Reacted and kept up with 8 gates guy (albeit barely)
Durability-
His Susanoo tanks a giant rasengan without a scratch
Madara is unfazed by the combined attacks from the Kage's
Gallery
Perfect Susanoo tanked a Bijuu bomb and Madara shrugged of Amaterasu
Gallery
Takes punishment from the Tailed Beast while immobilized:
Gallery
Survived a combined attack from all tailed beast
Tanks Afternoon Tiger and Evening Elelphant from 8th gates guy:
Gallery
Tanks Night Guy which bends space
Tanked naruto's Magma Rasenshuriken and survived being cut in half by Sasuke
Gallery
Strategy
At this point it honestly just feels like overkill, but I nerfed Madara a lot in the OP and I made sure you knew what you were getting into shirso, So for the voters, lol don't judge me.
I'm gonna straight up state the obvious:
My offense is greater than your defense
My defense is greater than your offense
I have more DC/AP than you, and several attacks that bypass your durability that you can't account for
I am nigh-immortal so you have no way to put me down
You have no response to Chibaku Tensei spam or my poison flowering trees
If it wasn't for intangibility all the admirals would probabaly get one-shotted
That is all for now... I was going to put an in-depth strategy to how I was going to beat you but I'll save that for when I see your opener.
With that being said, good luck! And thank you all for taking your time to read this incredibly long CAV/respect thread for Madara
@god_vulcan: Dope opener bro, you can bet this gonna be good.
One question, can I use feats from the film Z (it was written by Oda himself ,fits into the main continuity and as such considered canon by the OP community)? I can do without also, but Z gave Kizaru a few concrete feats (nothing inconsistent with his implied power level), so I don't have to depend on powerscaling him off the other two.
@shirso: Thanks man, and I'm looking forward to yours because I know it's gonna be great as well
And yeah I believe the movie to be canon, and there's no reason why you shouldn't use it. In fact, it'd be easier for you to use composite feats for the admirals, so you have more sources to pull from. I'm anticipating it.
@god_vulcan: Hey, I am stuck in a remote town for 2 months where connectivity is irregular to say the least. I will try my best to get a post up, but I hope you don't mind if there are sudden long delays. Cheers!
@god_vulcan: Man I am stuck in the middle of nowhere for 6 more weeks, so please excuse the temporary hiatus, though I am trying my level best to finish an opener.
The Admirals are the World Government's strongest fighters, and as such God tiers in the OP verse (comparable in power and status to Kages in Naruto for example). Kuzan (Aokiji), Sakazuki (Akainu) and Borsalino (Kizaru) were the original 3 Admirals before the time skip.
After certain events following the Battle of Marineford, Akainu replaced Sengoku as the Fleet Admiral, while Aokiji left the Marines and is now rumored to be allied with Blackbeard. Kizaru is Kizaru.
Feats
Before going into specifics, let me explain the general power tier the Admirals belong to, the specialties of each, and a little about Haki.
From feats shown thus far, the Admirals seem to be about Island lvl+ in strength, durability and damage output, though this is almost certainly going to change, at least for Akainu, come EoS.
As for speed, they are easily massively hypersonic+, in the Mach 3 digits, though except Kizaru, the others do not display their speed that much due to the nature of their fighting styles, as opposed to someone like say the Monster Trio or Doflamingo who use speed a lot in their fights.
Their main usp, both in verse and in this fight, is of course going to be their much celebrated Logia intagibility. Logia fruits are a special breed of Devil Fruits in One Piece, which transform the wielder into an unique element, allowing them to use the properties of said element. More importantly, it makes them impervious to physical and most other forms of damage, unless imbued with Haki. Unless you hit them with Haki, or an elemental counter, they are simply going to reform themselves again and again, no matter how many times you physically destroy their body.
Haki is another name for "willpower" in the One Piece verse. Though a lot of it is still shrouded in mystery, till now 3 main types have been identified.
Armament Haki: Covers the user's body entirely or partially, or even weapons, in "spiritual" armor. Gives a substantial boost in both attack and defense, as well as providing one of the only ways of getting past intangible (Logia) opponents.
Observation Haki: Precognition and much much more. Among its myriad uses are detecting auras , estimating power levels of opponents, etc.
Conqueror's Haki: One of the million dollar questions amongst the OP community, this mysterious third form of Haki only appears in a select few, and so far has been shown only to be a glorified fodder knocker. But given how revered the ability is by the top tiers within the verse, its safe to bet that there's a lot more to it than meets the eye.
All top tiers in the verse are proficient Haki users as well, and the Admirals are no exception. The first two forms are possessed by every Marine above Vice Admiral level. Conqueror's is as of yet not confirmed among either of the 3, nor am I going to use it in this fight.
Now that I have given you a general idea of what to expect, let's dive into more details.
Strength and DC
As I said, all 3 are comfortably Island lvl+ in this department. Before giving actual feats, let me briefly introduce the Logia types of each.
Akainu: Made of Magma
Aokiji: Made of Ice
Kizaru: Made of Light (yes actual light, not some kind of comic book laser).
Akainu is arguably the strongest of the 3, and as such he has one of the most destructive DF's in existence.
Gallery
Near instantly evaporates a massive, mountain sized chunk of ice (look at how it dwarfs even the giant Marine soldiers) and destroys one of Whitebeard's ships as collateral.
This feat is even more impressive as the chunk was made of Aokiji's ice (why this is significant will become clear presently).
Speaking of Aokiji, he is an Ice man, but his ice is far from ordinary, its cold enough to freeze up entire oceans and bays in the blink of an eye.
Gallery
By far one of Kuzan's most prominent feats, here he freezes up two Tsunami waves created by Whitebeard, as well as a large part of the ocean.
Kizaru doesn't have as good feats in the manga, but since I have movie feats for the Admirals as well, I will just link his fight against Z.
He shows both Island lvl attack potency as well as Island level durability when he tanks the Dyna stone explosion at the end.
Speed
One thing I notice in your speed section is that you are apparently depending a lot on scaling. I can see he is obviously a lightning timer, but so were Luffy and co way back in Skypiea, so does Madara have any concrete showings to prove he is really faster than OP top tiers?
Now for the Admirals.
As I said Akainu and Aokiji do not seem to be very fast due to their fighting styles, but make no mistake, they have ludicrous attack and reaction speed if you take their feats in context.
Let's look at Aokiji first.
I have already shown you how fast he can freeze up entire oceans, if you want a combat speed showing, look no further than his confrontation with Doflamingo.
Gallery
Freezes up Doffy and a large chunk of ocean before the Warlord can kill Smoker.
To put this in context, Doffy is easily one of the fastest characters in the series, as he has kept up with post skip Gear 2 Luffy (who was already blitzing lightning timers wayyy before the time skip), beaten Trafalgar Law 1v1 and sliced apart Fujitora's meteorite at near point blank range.
And Aokiji essentially blitzed this guy before he could twitch his fingers to kill a man he was literally sitting right on top of.
Akainu should be comparable as he has beaten Aokiji in an extremely close fight lasting 10 days.
As for Kizaru, he is likely the fastest character in the entire series, at least travel speed wise, being made of light.
Kizaru casually intercepts Gear 2 Luffy and blitzes him with a kick. He even calls Luffy "slow". Though this is pre skip Luffy, Gear 2 is still pretty fast, as he was blitzing lightning timers multiple arcs back before this, and was barely reacting to Mihawk's attacks during Marineford.
Durability
Again Island lvl++ for all 3.
Akainu is the tank of the 3, being able to survive hits from Whitebeard.
Gallery
Tanks a punch from an enraged WB that split Marineford in half. He was taken out for a bit, but came back more or less fine a little later, and was fighting a group of WB's commanders (including heavyweights like Marco and Vista) plus Crocodile, a former Warlord, all by himself.
Aokiji is again comparable to Akinu given their fight.
I have already shown Kizaru tanking a Island lvl explosion.
But by far their best asset is of course their intangibility, which makes them virtually immune to most forms of damage.
Counters
I will keep this section short, as its just an opener, and you haven't shown any real strategy yet. I will just address a few of your conclusions.
My offense is greater than your defense
My defense is greater than your offense
Maybe individually, but you are facing 3 highly experienced opponents with perfect teamwork here. A well coordinated assault between the 3 would be dangerous for Madara if he underestimates them.
I have more DC/AP than you, and several attacks that bypass your durability that you can't account for
Well, so far you haven't shown which attacks can bypass my intangibility, and my numbers advantage makes up for the slight edge in DC you might have.
I am nigh-immortal so you have no way to put me down
I assume this means you have a healing factor as opposed to true immortality, which is cool, but he can still be KO'd I think, or frozen by Aokiji, or a laser through his head by Kizaru will most likely drop him.
You have no response to Chibaku Tensei spam or my poison flowering trees
Chikabu Tensei is the meteor spam thing right? That's honestly a great attack, but unfortunately irrelevant here because of the Admirals' intangibility. Even then Aokiji can probably freeze them up or Akainu vaporise them. Not that a purely physical attack is doing shit to the Admirals anyway.
The poison trees are a potential threat, but here's where Observation Haki helps. The Admirals will easily recognize the danger, and given their attack speed, Aokiji will simply flash freeze them, or Akainu burn them to a crisp (they are just trees after all).
If it wasn't for intangibility all the admirals would probabaly get one-shotted
Maybe, maybe not. Good thing they have it here then.
Strategy
Now I admit Madara will likely overwhelm an Admiral 1v1 given his stats and versatility, maybe even 2, but 3 of them, coming at him with perfect coordination and teamwork? No way is he surviving that.
Also the Logia intangibility unfortunately makes about 99% of Madara's vast powerset useless. I know Naruto verse does have a few moves to deal with intangibility, but its just not a thing in their verse, meaning Madara is a fish out of water against my team. I do have a hunch what you will bring up to counter this, but I will wait for your next counter for that.
Here's my general plan.
Kizaru will act as the blitzkreig unit and air support. With his exceptional speed, he will fly high, and constantly bombard Madara with his barrage of island busting lasers. Madara is definitely fast, but I doubt he is as agile or has as good travel speed as a guy literally made of light.
Aokiji and Akainu will engage Madara head on. Aokiji with his flash freezes will act as the defensive perimeter, keeping Madara at a distance and freezing up any projectiles or large scale AoE attacks he sends their way. He will also constantly be on the lookout for any openings to flash freeze Madara. As far as I know Madara has never faced extreme cold before, so this might very well be a KO if Aokiji can pull it off.
Akainu has arguably the best physicals and durability, he can definitely take a beating (though it will be Aokiji's job to ensure he doesn't), and will pound Madara from range with his magma fists.
It will certainly be the fight of their lives, but between their intangibility, numbers advantage, teamwork and versatility, I think they can edge this out.
Maybe individually, but you are facing 3 highly experienced opponents with perfect teamwork here. A well coordinated assault between the 3 would be dangerous for Madara if he underestimates them.
Madara is a smart man, he rarely takes things lightly. Whether his opponents have perfect team work or not, Madara has single handedly defeated entire armies by himself, and held his own against Team 7 and other characters all at once, who together pose a greater threat than the admirals. There are an overwhelming amount of examples of Madara's strategical mind and battle experience. If anything, Madara has the overwheming tactical advantage.
Well, so far you haven't shown which attacks can bypass my intangibility, and my numbers advantage makes up for the slight edge in DC you might have.
The admirals intangibility isn't true intangibility (like the kind that comes with Kamui) but rather elemental intangibility. Kizaru is the only problem here as far as I'm concerned, but both Aokiji and Akainu can be destroyed by TSB's, since neither can regenerate their specific element once it's been atomized (destroyed on a molecular level). And Kizaru's greatest durability feat is in the One Piece Z movie like you linked, but he had a frightful expression when Z detonated the island:
That alone, (and the fact we've never seen him regenerate from something greater) gives me the impression that the limit of his durability maxes out around island level (possibly country if we scale to Akainu) and Madara has more than enough firepower to match and overcome that. Intangibility is a great power, but unless it's complete spatial intangibility, we have to assume there are limits for it or we'll be dancing with NLF.
I assume this means you have a healing factor as opposed to true immortality, which is cool, but he can still be KO'd I think, or frozen by Aokiji, or a laser through his head by Kizaru will most likely drop him.
Madara has excellent regeneration, and though he doesn't have intangibility, his healing factor easily rivals anything we've seen from the admirals so far by feats. Madara has massive, widespread fire release jutsus to hard counter Aokiji's ice. If Ace can stalemate Aokiji at marineford, then Madara can sure as hell overpower him with fire. Madara has precog and sharingan to dodge any attacks or blasts Kizaru has, and even though Kizaru is incredibly fast, Madara has reacted to teleportation and other attacks before showing incredible combat speed and reaction
Reacts to Tobirama's teleportation:
Gallery
Reacts to and no solds a combined attack from kamui and Minato's Flying Thunder God
Gallery
His reaction speeds are further enhanced with precog. I'm sure he could dodge a few beams from Kizaru. As for Akainu (and his magma attacks), Madara's incomplete Susanoo ribcage was able to tank a blast of corrosive lava from the Mizukage unharmed:
Going off that feat, (which used an incomplete susanoo ribcage) it's safe to say that a perfect completely body Susanoo can tank any attack that Akainu throws at it. Long story short, none of the admirals have a way to hurt him at all
Chikabu Tensei is the meteor spam thing right? That's honestly a great attack, but unfortunately irrelevant here because of the Admirals' intangibility. Even then Aokiji can probably freeze them up or Akainu vaporise them. Not that a purely physical attack is doing shit to the Admirals anyway.
The mere fragments of the the destroyed meteors were dwarfing mountain ranges:
Kuzan has never frozen something that large and moving that fast, and likewise Sakazuki has never vaporized anything near that level, nor does Borsalino have any DC feats to suggest he can overcome it. The meteors could probably obliterate Kuzan and Sakazuki, (if that won't TSB will) and it would definitely disperse Kizaru. In the One Piece Z film, Kizaru was dispersed by the attack that busted the island and he didn't regenerate anytime soon after that:
The poison trees are a potential threat, but here's where Observation Haki helps. The Admirals will easily recognize the danger, and given their attack speed, Aokiji will simply flash freeze them, or Akainu burn them to a crisp (they are just trees after all).
Fair enough. This is a viable solution to counter the poison flowering trees, but there are still an overwhelming number of ways that Madara can put him down
Maybe, maybe not. Good thing they have it here then.
It doesn't help there case in any significant way, nor any way that allows them to win
Strategy
Now I admit Madara will likely overwhelm an Admiral 1v1 given his stats and versatility, maybe even 2, but 3 of them, coming at him with perfect coordination and teamwork? No way is he surviving that.
Madara has fought numerous teams before who all had great teamwork and he stilled overwhelmed them. Examples are-
- The Five Kage
- The Tailed Beast
- 4th Division (practically an army)
- Team 7 (plus obito)
- The Hokage
Not only that, he has a massive advantage in terms of experience and strategy here. The admirals numbers really don't mean squat
Also the Logia intangibility unfortunately makes about 99% of Madara's vast powerset useless.
Probably in terms of physical melee attacks, but he has a TSB staff that disintegrates sub-atomic particles, which is gg for Akainu and Aokiji. And since Kizaru is made of photons, he can probably just disperse him with a massive attack he can't regen from (at least not for a long time)
I know Naruto verse does have a few moves to deal with intangibility, but its just not a thing in their verse, meaning Madara is a fish out of water against my team. I do have a hunch what you will bring up to counter this, but I will wait for your next counter for that.
Madara has several ways to overcome the admirals partial intangibility, and I've already talked about the TSB, so I'll name a few more:
He can use 6 paths Rinnegan techniques against them, such as the Human Path, which allows him to pull his victims soul directly out of their body
Use Chibaku tensei to attract them to the gravity core (admirals don't have the feats to suggest they can destroy Madara's meteors)
Use a sage release techique or Yin-Yang release in combination with Limbo clones for an attack the Admirals can not possibly see nor hope to avoid
Here's my general plan.
Kizaru will act as the blitzkreig unit and air support. With his exceptional speed, he will fly high, and constantly bombard Madara with his barrage of island busting lasers. Madara is definitely fast, but I doubt he is as agile or has as good travel speed as a guy literally made of light.
Madara can fly too, and I highly doubt he'll just stay on the ground and take the lasers to the face. He can fight on even terms with Kizaru in the air use any highly destructive technique from his Susanoo to disperse Kizaru's body. This will work because I'm capping Kizaru at large island small country level
Aokiji and Akainu will engage Madara head on. Aokiji with his flash freezes will act as the defensive perimeter, keeping Madara at a distance and freezing up any projectiles or large scale AoE attacks he sends their way. He will also constantly be on the lookout for any openings to flash freeze Madara. As far as I know Madara has never faced extreme cold before, so this might very well be a KO if Aokiji can pull it off.
Madara can use fire release to melt Kuzan's ice, in a similar manner to Ace. But Madara is far stronger than Ace, so I have reason to believe he'll overpower him completely
Akainu has arguably the best physicals and durability, he can definitely take a beating (though it will be Aokiji's job to ensure he doesn't), and will pound Madara from range with his magma fists.
An imperfect Susanoo ribcage cage has survived being immersed in corrosive lava, so a complete body Susanoo will no sell all of Akainu's magma attacks
It will certainly be the fight of their lives, but between their intangibility, numbers advantage, teamwork and versatility, I think they can edge this out.
Interesting. Here are the reasons Madara can and will win:
Conclusion
Madara is far too versatile, experienced, and powerful to subdued by these three. He simply has too many abilities and options to choose from, and numerous defenses and offensive the admirals can't cope with
Even if by some ungodly miracle the Admirals kill him, Madara can use Izanagi to rewrite his death and bring himself back to life, then continue to troll them
None of the admirals can see nor react to limbo clones, he can use them for defense as well
Madara has an amazing healing factor so even if he gets tagged (Kizaru being the only one capable) he'll regenerate
Madara can create 25 wood clones to overwhelm the admirals. They are all capable of using his techniques, so I have reason to believe they can surround the admirals and use rinnegan soul rip
Madara can batter Aokiji and Akainu with TSB, and disperse Kizaru with any of his large scale DC attacks (he has a few). Kizaru could probably regenerate from island lvl attacks (which weaker versions of Madara has performed) but he'd be incapacitated for a long time, as seen in Z
He can turn them into gravity core's with Chibaku tensei
He can use precog to react to any of their blitzes; kizaru can only travel at light speed, he can't fight at that speed
Log in to comment