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#1 Edited by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio

Comic Teambusters

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God of High School

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Rules:

  • Combatants are in character but willing to kill.
  • Fight to the death
  • No prior knowledge,
  • No prep
  • Standard gear
  • Battle takes place on an indestructible plane the size of of Jupiter
  • Combatants start a mile away from each other.

Voters:

  • Please refrain from posting your opinion on the match until it's done.
  • Ask to be tagged if you wished to be tagged for voting.
  • Don't vote on who you think is more powerful, but on who had the better arguments.
  • When giving your vote, give an explanation on why you think the person won.

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#2 Posted by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by deactivated-59b71d5620272 (3438 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please.

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#4 Edited by Helloman (9072 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#5 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (8420 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#6 Posted by universeichigo1 (893 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V this is interesting

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#7 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Edited by KingZod (2490 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. T4V. T4f**kingV

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#9 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I'm good, although just to let you know I won't be using pictured version of Genis due to his power level at the time.

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#10 Posted by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

So who's going first?

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#12 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: I'd prefer y'all go first since I don't know anything about your characters. I'm ready and on standby to post my opener, I don't wanna speak for ET but I'll assume the same

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#13 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

: @god_vulcan:Sure.

@jardinain2: Why don't you start off, just copy paste one of your previous openers, I need a few days to collect Larfleeze scans.

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#14 Posted by Major_Hellstorm (10453 posts) - - Show Bio

Will Satan have his quadrillion cloning thing?

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#15 Edited by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: I'd like to think so

Edit: Yes. Cloning is a part of his powerset. You confused me there for a second

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#16 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Okay. I'm working today s Ill have it up this afternoon or evening.

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#17 Posted by lvenger (33527 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#18 Posted by ashar810 (88 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be interesting

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#19 Edited by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: @god_vulcan: @emperorthanos: Okay here we go!

Genis-Vell

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Bio

The cloned son of legendary hero Mar-Vell. goes insane due to cosmic awareness, not much to it.

Energy manipulation

This is an area that Genis holds an advantage as well.

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One shots a storm giant of Surtur, as shown in the scans these guys were strong enough to go toe to toe with King Thor.

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Creates a massive omniderectional blast, while the full size is never shown in full, it was at least solar system level.

Thats good enough to start for now lol.

Physicals

Genis has 'meh showings in the physical department, but its still decent.

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Matches Sentry in a fist lock.

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Knocks King Hyperion right off of him. He rarely gets physical in a fight so I'm not worried about the lack of showings.

Speed

also not his best area, but hes still good enough to tag you're team imo

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First scan: shows that the Nega bands automatically create auto shields when hes in danger. second scan: meh some talk about megabombs not useful. third and fourth he dodges blasts from Monica Rambeau (at least FLT considering considering her blasts travel even faster than she does and shes already Light speed) and he no sells a few of those blasts. (This is him as Legacy, his weakest incarnation)

So not only is he capable of fighting at least FTL, hes also capable of tagging, and reacting to said blasts, he even has auto shields that took a kree nega bomb:

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A kree nega bomb was able to kill Silver Surfer and other hero's. so also a good durability showing.

Durability

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His entire fight with the Silver Surfer. it shows his excellent durability, combat speed, and his physical offensive.

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He broadcasts Rick's song onto every possible listing device on Earth while he was in the Microverse. kinda self explanatory but it shows that he can bend laws of Physics.

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While holding back he was casually planetbusting, and creating enough energy that from the micro verse (where planets are smaller than electrons) they're battle was visible in sharp blue energy.

Hax

This is where Genis really shines

1. Trapping your team in a stasis field.

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2. any form of mental or energy manipulation against either members of my team will result in a catastrophic backlash for you.

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3. manipulating they're brains electrical impulses.

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4. Genis can just fry both they're brains like he did to the Purple Man.

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And possibly my favorite! Genis will Teleport/nullify any blast or attack thrown at him and redirect it.

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First scan is him redirecting energy, and the second is him creating a portal to get rid of an energy blast, this makes energy attacks useless (i have more stuff but i don't want to reveal everything right off the bat)

Next Gen strats!

So, despite the fact that there is no prep, Genis has access to cosmic awareness which is an easy trump card for me, the ability to see what you're team is capable of, and see any/all possible moves you're team makes. He can also amp Fleeze, and give him cosmic awareness.

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Meaning that he can shove his cosmic awareness down you're neck and fry you're brain like he did the purple man.

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Illusions can swarm the field, making fighting us hard. Genis can also pull multiple versions of ourselves, and you from the time stream:

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This means that we can out number your team, or if need be: summon past versions of yourselves on the field, if you kill these versions you will cease to exist.

This combined with Genis's crazy space-time manipulation, and his other hax ill get to later will make this a very hard match for your team to say the least. I don't know a lot about Jin or Satan, so Ill wait to see what your team can do in its entirety before giving away my entire hand.

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#20 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: @god_vulcan: Basic opener, I don't know much about your team, so I refrained from bringing certain stuff up.

Who's going next?

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#21 Posted by KingSerena (100 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Edited by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2@shirso@emperorthanos

Just a light intro-

"The White Kid"

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Bio

666: Satan is a God, and one of the primary antagonists of the Ragnarok Saga in GoH. He and his fellows Gods made their descent on Earth after being summoned by the former Jade Emperor, Ultio R. Their goal was to wipe out humanity to extinction, making Earth their new home.

Powers and Abilities

Satan's powerset includes, but is not limited to-

  • Superhuman strength
  • Superman speed
  • Superhuman durability, stamina, and endurance
  • Regeneration (Low-godly)
  • True Flight/Levitation
  • Telepathy
  • Heat vision
  • Resurrection
  • Power Copying
  • Telekinesis
  • Gravity manipulation
  • Duplication/Cloning
  • Stat amplification via limiter removal
  • Energy absorption

He's pretty well-versed in nearly all forms of combat.

Physicals

Strength

In terms of physical strength, Satan can generally trade blows with Mori in base. But without context, that wouldn't be impressive, so you need to know what he's capable of (sorry ET I'm stealing some scans).

Context:

On the Sage Realm, Mori punched Natak hard enough to create a continent sized shockwave, and also released a stream of air pressure into space:

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This feat was performed on a planet many times larger than even Jupiter, so the area in question is easily planet sized.

Satan can go toe to toe with Mori in CQC, so their strength is comparable. And Satan even had the upper hand the majority of their fight:

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With limit removers Satan increased his stats 52x and casually breaks Yeoui in half:

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Context:

Jin's staff, yeoui, has proven multi-planetary durability. It was at the epicenter of two planets colliding into each other at FTL speeds, and was unscathed despite the collision:

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So Satan's feat of breaking it falls around multi-planetary or large planet lvl. And he performed that while his stats were amped 52x with limiter removal, and Satan can amp his stats up to 250k times

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You don't have to be a math genius to figure that out. Satan has multi-planetary striking at 52x, so at 250,000x, he's approximately 4,807 times stronger.

Most of his strength feats are shared with Jin or scale to him. These aren't his best ones, but it should give you an idea of his low end power. Jin has a slightly better feats in this regard though that you can scale Satan to, which will be done later.

Speed

Breaks the sound barrier with Jin on-panel

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lolz

One of his best stand alone speed feat is throwing Jupiter at the Earth in the blink of an eye:

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This feat is irrefutably MFTL and verges on the border of MFTL+, depending on how you look at it. It takes the speed of light well over 33 minutes to travel the distance from Jupiter to Earth (on average), and Satan closed that distance without a moments hesitation. He replicated the feat seconds after witnessing another character throw Mars, giving him superluminal reactions as well. And you have to consider that Satan threw Jupiter as a projectile, so it also applies to combat speed.

Satan's Jupiter toss is one of my favorite feats of all time, because it can be divided as both combat and reaction speed, showcases gravity manipulation, telekinesis, and his power copying all in one- and was performed ever so casually.

He also punched Jin from near Earth all the way into the Sun, and tagged him seconds later, making him comfortably FTL in combat speed (a few dozen times at the very least, considering the distance and the assumed timeframe):

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In general, similar to his strength, he scales to Mori for his speed. And Mori has even more impressive feats in this regard, and Satan was capable of blitzing him multiple times over.

Durability

He could tank blows from Mori who's planetary+ in striking:

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In addition to his durability, Satan also has a quite impressive healing factor:

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Those aren't all of his feats in these categories but they should suffice for now

Hax

Power Copying

Satan's most broken ability. He can copy nearly any power, hax, or physical technique he sees, and replicate said technique to a higher proficiency and degree than the person he copied it from.

Remember that feat of him throwing the planet Jupiter? He copied the technique from a Han Dae-Wi, who threw Mars via gravity manipulation

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^ And then he threw Jupiter.

He also copied cloning from Jin Mo-Ri:

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While Jin has only demonstrated the ability to make a hundred clones, Satan can make a cool 200 quadrillion

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Satan has copied numerous abilities without any regard of the origin of the power, as well as the mechanics of the technique nor their style, and indiscriminate of their power. I see know reason why he can't copy a majority of Genis' abilities that have been demonstrated.

Telepathy

Satan has demonstrated to telepathically read his opponents mind, allowing him to copy their powers preemptively. It also theoretically allows him to see their ability arsenal

Here, you can see he reads Dae-Wi's mind and copies Blue Dragon Kick:

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Later he read Mori's mind and copied bongchim Limiter removal (it's a technique that multiplies your stats, think of kaioken)

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Energy Absorption

Satan has the ability to absorb light and heat in general. Here he explains the power himself

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Satan's energy absorption is vast enough where he absorbs the entire corona of the Sun

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That spot is where the fight was taking place, where he absorbed all that energy.

Satan has more hax abilities and tricks up his sleeve, but I won't play out all my cards now.

Opening Counters

Counters to Energy manip, Physicals, and Hax

Creates a massive omniderectional blast, while the full size is never shown in full, it was at least solar system level.

If the size was never shown in full, how can we verify that the blast is Solar system lvl? Because from the scan you posted, it most definitely wasn't anywhere near that large- so the on-panel evidence blatantly contradicts your statement about the size. You need to provide context to back up claims such as these, and until you do that (and prove beyond a reasonable doubt Genis is solar system in DC from that scan), this statement is nothing more than an empty boast.

Knocks King Hyperion right off of him. He rarely gets physical in a fight so I'm not worried about the lack of showings.

So right off the bat you concede that Genis lacks in physicals? Excellent. Carry on.

also not his best area, but hes still good enough to tag you're team imo. So not only is he capable of fighting at least FTL, hes also capable of tagging, and reacting to said blasts, he even has auto shields that took a kree nega bomb:

Well sorry to burst your bubble, but being marginally 'FTL' doesn't cut it. Satan in base has MFTL perceptions and combat speeds for throwing Jupiter, and he becomes increasingly faster in Phase 2 & 3 (his transformations) or when he amps his limiters or absorbs energy. As far as I'm concerned, my overwhelming physical advantage has just been cemented. I'm now irrefutably superior in strength and speed.

His entire fight with the Silver Surfer. it shows his excellent durability, combat speed, and his physical offensive.

Scaling to surfer is acceptable, but those scans themselves weren't impressive and impressive and I saw nothing in there that trumps Satan stat wise.

While holding back he was casually planetbusting, and creating enough energy that from the micro verse (where planets are smaller than electrons) they're battle was visible in sharp blue energy.

Planet busting in GoH is a mid tier feat. That's not gonna cut it here. I haven't posted all of Satan's feats yet, but he's convincingly Star lvl+

1. Trapping your team in a stasis field.

Good luck getting it off. Genis is nowhere near fast enough to deploy a technique like that before getting speedblitzed

2. any form of mental or energy manipulation against either members of my team will result in a catastrophic backlash for you.

Well, as I proved earlier, Satan can absorb light, heat, and energy in general and a Star lvl scale. He wouldn't need to mess with your mental energies, though that could count as TP resistance. But it's really you who should watch out, because your offensive energy projections will get absorbed.

3. manipulating they're brains electrical impulses.

Satan will copy that

4. Genis can just fry both they're brains like he did to the Purple Man.

A TP attack huh? Considering Satan has demonstrated TP already, I'm sure he can copy it without any problems or hassles

And possibly my favorite! Genis will Teleport/nullify any blast or attack thrown at him and redirect it.

Too bad he can't nullify punches and kicks based on those showings. Also, can only create small portals and nullify weak energy attacks like that? Or can he, say, redirect the entire corona of the Sun being blasted towards him as a laser beam?

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Counters to your strategy

So, despite the fact that there is no prep, Genis has access to cosmic awareness which is an easy trump card for me, the ability to see what you're team is capable of, and see any/all possible moves you're team makes. He can also amp Fleeze, and give him cosmic awareness. Meaning that he can shove his cosmic awareness down you're neck and fry you're brain like he did the purple man.

A decent strategy. Though in the Thor scan he made physical contact, and I just want to say Genis is never tagging either on my team. As for the Purple Man thing, what was the nature of this attack? I won't stretch Satan's power copy and say he can copy cosmic awareness, but is the fry your brain thing a physical brain attack or a metal TP attack? If it's the former, he can regenerate, and if it's the latter he can copy blitz Genis before he uses it.

Illusions can swarm the field, making fighting us hard. Genis can also pull multiple versions of ourselves, and you from the time stream:

Illusions and techniques of the like will get copied without a doubt. Also, pulling out versions of myself from the timestream? Can you tell me the nature of this technique and how it works, as well as what situations he's used that in? Because it's a broken ability for sure. But I would like to poitn out that Satan copied gravity manipulation (in order to throw a planet), and gravity and time exist relative to each other on the same plane of space. So this technique is not out of his reach to replicate, depending on how it works. If it's just basic time manipulation Satan can copy it.

This means that we can out number your team

Outnumber a guy who can make 200 quadrillion clones? LMAO

or if need be: summon past versions of yourselves on the field, if you kill these versions you will cease to exist.

That's actually impressive. I need context for this ability and scans of just that happening.

This combined with Genis's crazy space-time manipulation,

Most of which can be replicated by Satan

and his other hax ill get to later will make this a very hard match for your team to say the least. I don't know a lot about Jin or Satan, so Ill wait to see what your team can do in its entirety before giving away my entire hand.

Well, with those last two abilities (pulling versions of my self from within time), I'm not entirely sure Satan can handle it conventionally, so without a doubt you've proved this to be a tough match already. Despite this though, there are still some scans I haven't displayed so we'll see how things go.

Conclusion and Strategy

It has become apparent to me that my opponent does not have a sound argument for physicals at all. By his own concession, it's obvious he's no match for Satan in the speed and strength department. The gap in strength, speed, and durability between Genis and Satan are staggering; and can not be argued in my opponents favor by any means or on-panel evidence. So here's a quick summary-

  • Satan is faster, stronger, and more durable than Genis
  • His stats dwarf Genis' by an inconceivable margin, and that is not debatable
  • Genis has no feats to suggest he can react to or even percieve a speedblitz by Satan in the slightest.
  • He has no durability feats to suggest he can tank more than a few punches (when limits are removed) before he explodes, and I haven't shown Satan's best striking feat yet
  • My opponent thinks that Genis' hax can save him from lack of physicals, but unlucky for him, Satan can copy nearly any power he sees without hesitation. Nothing Genis has shown so far (save 1 ambiguous technique) isn't getting copied by Satan
  • Because of that, I have both the physical and the hax advantage over Genis until my opponent shows better feats

Strategy

Blitz. That's the main one- Speed blitz. Genis and Satan aren't in the same ballpark speed wise, and he won't even be able to react or know what hits him before getting assaulted with loads of martial arts and other physical strikes; all of which are way above his paygrade to tank or handle.

Genis has displayed offensive TP but he hasn't shown TP resistance. Because of that, Satan can read his mind and copy all the coolest looking "tricks" he sees in his arsenal, and can use them against him. Satan can also absorb offensive energy projections up to a Star lvl scale in DC, and he can amp his limiters in order to make his stats many times greater than they already are. Not only that, Satan can make over 200 quadrillion clones in combat, so my team holds an overwhelming number advantage. And between clones, speedblitzing, power copying and other techniques, I'm afraid Genis' chance of beating Satan are slim to none.

Good luck! And may the best man win (:

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#25 Edited by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow that was fast.

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#27 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Yeah lol. I wanted to get it out the way, so I intended for it to be done today.

You're up next right?

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#28 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Take your time man, and good luck

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#30 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: Thanks man. Also, some scans were posted in the wrong order so I went ahead and edited them

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#32 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: @jardinain2: @god_vulcan: Here we go...

"Mine !"

Bio

Agent Orange, better known as Larfleeze is the sole wielder of the Orange Ring of Avarice and as such the sole member of the Orange Lantern Corps.

Billions of years ago, the Guardians of the Universe made a pact with Larfleeze and a few of his cronies to keep the Vega System outside the GLC's jurisdiction, in exchange for keeping the Orange Light confined within its territories. Larfleeze eventually managed to kill his pals and assume sole ownership of the Orange Lantern. He has been sulking, whining and hoarding, but mainly hoarding in his very own personal planet ever since.

Larfleeze is, well, a little insane, so there have been slightly varying accounts of his past over the years. Complicating matters is the fact that most of these histories are told by Larfleeze himself. But what's clear though is that he comes from some ancient alien species, he has been around since forever, he has history with the Guardians and he has a really bad case of Magpie syndrome.

Here's a nice infogram from Blackest Night.

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Why is he so highly rated?

If you have not caught on to it by now, yeah, Larfleeze doesn't fit your archetypal cosmic super villain mold. He looks like a cross between a hamster and a rodent, has kind of silly motivations and is a total goof in general. Power level wise, he hardly has anything flashy like Darkseid's Omega Beams and seemingly looks just like your typical Lantern, which are a dime a dozen in DC.

So, why is he held in such high regard, and why do battle forums people consider him such a high level teambuster?

Well, the answer to these questions lies in Larfleeze's emotion of choice: Avarice

Being pretty much an avatar of greed in his universe, Larfleeze does NOT share anything, especially his Orange Light with anybody else. In other words, he is the sole wielder of the Orange Light, and therein lies the key to his incredible power.

To put this in perspective, I'm sure all of you know how powerful a standard Green Lantern in DC is. Now combine the power of an entire corps of Green Lanterns and put it into a goofy rodent. You have Larfleeze in a nutshell.

Let's see a few examples of this:

Larfleeze has hoarded his entire power throughout his life, using it only when absolutely needed, so he has a LOT more juice than your average Lantern, including even Guardians.

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Because he carries his Orange Power Battery with him all the time, he can charge his ring to ridiculous levels all the time at wish.

The culmination of this was when every other Corps member's rings charged to an impressive 100% during Blackest Night. Everyone except Larfleeze of course. His got charged to a jaw dropping 100,000%, near instantly.

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As if that wasn't op enough, during his solo series, we find out that Larfleeze in fact doesn't need a central power battery at all, because Larfleeze IS the battery !

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The upshot of all this is that you are dealing with a guy who not only packs the undiluted power of an entire Lantern Corps,but is also a living power battery himself, so will never run out of juice, ever. Good luck.

Powers and Abilities

Larfleeze has the standard powers a Lantern Ring gives, though amped to a much higher extent.

An unique feature of his ring is that he can imprison the essence of whoever he kills within it, turning them into a slave for his Orange Lantern Corps. He can summon his vanquished enemies as constructs in a fight, and these constructs can fight independently on their own.

Feats

Larfleeze doesn't have many direct feats, like you wouldn't generally see him blowing up a planet. But his showings against teams of high tier Lanterns, Guardians and some extremely powerful cosmic entities prove his credentials as a high end teambuster beyond doubt.

For one, Larfleeze's constructs alone are incredibly powerful, being able to shrug through hits from the combined might of Guardians and even kill a Guardian or two.

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In fact he is so powerful that Larfleeze doesn't even hesitate to launch a frontal assault all by himself on Oa, the home planet of the Guardians.

Just a single construct of Larfleeze is enough to overpower a Guardian.

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Now Guardians can be inconsistent, but on average they can easily handle teams of standard Lanterns at once. On this particular occasion, as Kyle says in the first scan, they had just wiped the floor with Lanterns from each of the Corps.

This power level isn't inconsistent for Fleeze at all, looking at how he treats standard GL's like Hal.

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Easily manhandles Hal and shatters his constructs like nothing.

His constructs can easily restrain and kill high tier GL's like John Stewart as well.

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These are really impressive feats, as powerful GL's like Jon and Hal occupy the high end of the Herald spectrum and have incredible durability feats in general. E.g: Hal has tanked hits from Superboy Prime amped with his AM armor

And that's what only 2-3 of his constructs are capable of, Larfleeze commands millions of these guys at his fingertips.

During his very first appearance in the Agent Orange arc, Larfleeze is shown capable of manhandling Hal Jordan who was empowered by both Green and Blue rings at the time (Blue rings of hope amp a Green ring greatly), even though Hal was charged beyond 200%.

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1) Hal's ring charges to 210%

2-3)Doesn't save him from getting smacked around by Fleeze.

Not posting the full fight because its pretty much the entire issue, but Hal could barely do anything to Fleeze, even with his amped full power blasts.

Another good feat of his damage output is when he one shots Atrocitus, leader of the Red Lantern Corps.

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Atrocitus is no weakling, in the very same issue, he was able to beat up high tier Lanterns like Hal, Sinestro, Saint Walker, etc and easily shatter their constructs.

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Lastly, Larfleeze's constructs can also absorb energy and other Lantern constructs, including those created by the Guardians. They can absorb magic as well.

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I will hold onto the really good stuff for now, but the above should suffice to prove that Larfleeze is an incredibly powerful guy, not only capable of beating teams of standard GL's but even overpower Guardians, who on average are low end teambusters themselves.

Initial thoughts

I know that both Jin and Satan are primarily physical fighters, so I am interested in one thing first:

How good is their energy durability ?

As you should know, tanking supernovas, black holes and planetary explosions is quite standard high herald stuff and GL's are no exception. Yet Larfleeze packs enough power to one shot the leader of the Red Lantern Corps, Atrocitus, with a single blast, so I need to see some serious energy durability feats from the duo.

As for clones, Fleeze has his own army to deal with them, and I'd argue they are more versatile than Jin's. For one, each can think for themselves, and absorb energy, and doesn't require any particular concentration from Fleeze to maintain. Afaik, Jin's clones are not as powerful and become weaker with increasing separation from him.

Another important advantage I have, the moment one of either Jin's or Satan's clones die (and they will die), they are getting added to Fleeze's army, meaning the fight becomes more and more uphill for the GoH duo as it progresses.

Now I know GoH characters are incredibly fast, and speed blitzing is going to be one of your major arguments. But Larfleeze, like other Lanterns has FTL combat and reaction speed as well, and even without his constructs, he has kept up in h2h with FTL opponents like Hal. I won't argue that he is as fast as Jin or Satan, but he is still comfortably FTL and fast enough to keep up. In any case, he will be hiding behind an army of constructs (which is perfectly in character for him) and doling out AoE blasts by the dozen, so I don't really see your speed helping at all.

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#34 Posted by just_banter (11554 posts) - - Show Bio

Is that my Satan opening picture I see? That picture is some of my best screenshotting work

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#35 Posted by ashar810 (88 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#36 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@just_banter: I forgot to pay respects to you for that. My sincere apologies

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#37 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio

No Caption Provided

Jin Mo Ri

Bio

Powers and Abilities

Jin is an extremely powerful martial artist. He knows a numerous amount martial arts with hte major one being renewal taekwando. After having eaten sage pills, Jin was able to remove his limiters which gave him superhuman stats, more over once he gained his memories back his physical reached the level of other gods. On top of this Jin posses a vast array of gear and weapons that he often uses. It gives him a level of versatility to make him more than a simply brick as well as amping his already ridiculous stats. His abilities currently include

  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed
  • Superhuman Durability (as well as endurance and stamina)
  • Martial arts Master
  • Weather Manipulation
  • Cloning
  • Sealing
  • Amping stats through limit remover and certain gear

Speed

To star off, I will show a feat of a Jin's weaker clone, Mori Hui. Mori Hui was a clone of Jin is vastly inferior to the original. Here Hui was able to move fast enough to tag someone the instant they teleported. He was able to predicted a determine where his opponent would be and go there instantly. He then reacts to a large sword moving at re entry speed at least. Dodging it at the las minute.

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Now onto a more impressive speed feat. During his figth with First crown prince. Jin was able to kick the first crown before he could even move his fist or react to.

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This is impressive because First Crown Prince has been shown to have FTL reactions. He was able to react to the expansion of Ruyi Jingu. Which in tun can expand to full size at FTL speeds. I will go more into depth of Ruyi Jingu in the gear section of my post however this should show that FCP has FTL reactions which in turn means Jin has FTl combat speed.

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Jin however can take it up a notch with his speed mode. When we first see it, Jin crossed a solar system(with the help of his cloud) and managed to block an attack at the end of it. For him to be able to do this, He would have to have been able perceive, think and react all while moving at MFTL speeds to ensure he could block the attack before it could hit his opponent.

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Now some might argue that this isn't combat speed, though I do think it is, Jin has shown to be able to use his speed mode in combat several times. One instance was when he fought the 7th floor master. Which is a giant circle, that simply crate copies every time it is split apart. So to kill it, Jin had to cut them into numerous amount of its pieces instantly to ensure it couldn't regenerate anymore. Which he managed to do with Speed mode.

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Strength

Jin is also pretty strong. He managed to match FCP fist to fist. FCP can make nuclear level shockwaves with his casual punches and Jin was able to perfectly match him. He did injure his arm in the process but that is due to how strong the Material FCP is made of, is.

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On to something more impressive When he fought Lee Sujin in his regular base form, the two of clashed and created a large explosion visible from space on the sage realm. The sage relam itself is bigger than even Jupiter so being able create such a large shockwave on would around planetary.

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During his fight with the first crown Prince punching him so hard that it created a huge shockwave. I have already stated the size of the sage realm. So that would make it around planet size shockwave from just a single punch. On top of that FCP is made out of the strongest material in the heavens but still felt the effect of his punch.

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Durability

Jin's durability is insane and probably one of his strongest suits. He has durability physical, energy and piercing attacks all at around a planetary scale.

First an energy durability feat, Jin Mo RI survive the desturction of large planet whilst depowered. Jin had been completely exhausted after the multiple battles between Lee Sujin and FCP however he still managed to survive the explosion of the sage realm.

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Now a physical durability feat. Jin has survived being hit across the distance of the Earth and Sun twice. Both times it was by 666 Satan. Here is the second instance when 666 Satan was powered up to the max while Jin was against physically exhausted. Despite that he still managed to survive being hit across the distance and could continue battle with 666 Satan even after this attack on him.

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And finally piercing durability. Jin survived and tanked a lightening sword strike from the First crown that slashed half the sage realm planet in a single strike. Jin was hit directly with the sword while the planet itself was split by the resulting shockwave of the strike.

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Gear

Ruyi Jingu

This is Jin staff and his most used weapon. This staff is capable of both extending to great heights and expanding it's width a both at lightspeed. When we first see it. It expands almost instantly towards to moon piercing it with ease while at the same time killing a whole bunch of angels one of which can take 100s of nuclear warheads.

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Kinto-un

This is a large cloud bigger than the size of Korea itself. It give Jin a level of weather manipulation allowing him summon powerful lightening and wind. Here is one example of him summoning lightening to take down a Taek. He is able to summon a large amount of lightening. Take has around counntry + durability after absorbing several of the angels, but this completely annihilated him.

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His cloud can also be used to protect him from attacks. It stopped an attack from First Crown Prince that was going to bust a planet. Th cloud compeltely nullified the attack and protect everyone who was going to get caught in it.

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Yongpyo

This is his armour suit. The main thing this give him is protection. It is actually sentient that protect him without him having to do anything. I also showed that it amps his speed and strength as well. He can control to protect others as well. Here is scene of him using it protect a bunch of monkeys who are enhanced to minaml degree. Thanks to his armor they survive all the attacks.

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Gourd

Another important piece of gear, the gourd basically allows him to absorb things. He can use it to seal people or even absorb attacks fired at him if necessary It incredibly tough as well and hard to break. Here he manages to seal his opponent without realizing until it begins.

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7th Floor Master 'Circle'

Jin's newest piece of gear that he gained defeating the 7th floor master, who gave him his core element. It is basically his essence and as such posses the power of the Floor master himself. Jin Mo Ri quickly learned to control it and was able to use it against R the sort of final villain. This is a poweful piece of gear that is able to tag people who are FTL and can completely pierce them. Plus destroying it is almost impossible due it simply increasing in number every time its cut.

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Other Abilities

Martial arts Master

As stated Jin Mo ri is a master martial artist who knows a plethora of techniques. Now majority of skill showings come from when he didn't have his powers. Mainly because he outstats most of his opponents. I'm not going to go to indepth in to skill, but he is far superior to is opponent.

Anyway first up is his renewal taekwando. His most common and signature technique is 3rd Stance Hwechook. Here Jin throws three consecutive kicks at his opponents head at 3 different sides/angles. Concentrating all that force right to his opponents head creating a devastating effect. This all done instantly and is one single technique. Here is an instance of his clone using it to take out an opponent.

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That is just one technique of Renewal taekwando. There are a plethora of others that he can use. Here is a fight with him and another participant, where he uses multiple different techniques of Renewal taekwando against a Human who was given special powers or borrowed powers of a god. While he himself was simply using martial arts.

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He also has his own original techniques. The main one being the Blue Dragon's kick. An attack that creates a dragon like force of win which he then fires at his opponent. It's power depends mainly on his strength so at full power it can be deadly, he has also improved to have two dragons instead of just one fired at his opponents.

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Nabong Needle Ryu

While this does fall under martial arts I do feel it needs it's own section as it does play a huge part in Jin's power set. It gives several acupuncture based techniques. Though it he can heal is own minors wounds or reduce the impact of injures. He can also use it offensively to paralyze his opponents or cause blood clots. He can also use it to amps his own stats to a ridiculous degree.

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Cloning

Jin can also make clones. He can more than a hundred clones and can clone his gear as well. Like all cloning techniques the clones are weaker than the original however they can still be deadly, especially when they have the same gear.

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Initial considerations

  1. First thing I have to say is that Jin does posses a speed advantage over both his opponents. Simply being FTL isn't enough since Jin has speed mode which makes his speed quite a bit above that. As such your team is going to struggle with keeping up with him and not getting blitzed. Atleast based of the feats you have presented so far.
  2. Jin is actually pretty durable to energy based attacks. He survived the destruction of the entire sage realms whilst depowered and without his Armour. So Larfleeze and Genis are going to have have to a hard time putting him down. He can also use acupuncture to heal himself should he get injured.
  3. Jin is stronger than either duo especially with his staff. I haven't really seen any impressive physical durability feats from either duo to suggest they would tank his stronger attacks.
  4. Now Jin's main opponent is Larfleeze. Who does have have an army but Jin is very much suited to dealing with large numbers of opponents. Not to mention he has clones that can help even it up. Even if the power is split up, they are still more than a match especially with gear.
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#40 Posted by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by shirso (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: Sealing means trapping your opponent in some kind of unescapable pocket dimension in general.

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#45 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Oh okay, gotcha. I probably could have figured that out from the scans, but I figured id ask on the off chance I was wrong.

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#46 Posted by EmperorThanos (11600 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: Yeah what Shirso said. He traps yo into that gourd. However It could come under BFR. So I won't use it directly. It will come in handy against the Lantern Army and absorbing attacks.

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#47 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Did we ever agree on a ruling on BFR? I thought we agreed in the PM that it was allowed, but not as a way of winning. I might be wrong on that.

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#48 Edited by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Round 1

In which, Jardinain2 shows that Marvin the Martain, is secretly Genis-Vell company hoping, without a shadow of a doubt.

Strength

I'm not really going to touch on any of the scans provided. I have already admitted that Satan vastly outclasses Genis in strength.

You don't have to be a math genius to figure that out. Satan has multi-planetary striking at 52x, so at 250,000x, he's approximately 4,807 times stronger.

Most of his strength feats are shared with Jin or scale to him. These aren't his best ones, but it should give you an idea of his low end power. Jin has a slightly better feats in this regard though that you can scale Satan to, which will be done later.

How long does it take for his limiter to be removed?

Speed

Again, not really gonna touch speed, to say the least you are far faster in combat speed. But you won't be able to blitz me for reasons Ill cover in just a second.

This feat is irrefutably MFTL and verges on the border of MFTL+, depending on how you look at it. It takes the speed of light well over 33 minutes to travel the distance from Jupiter to Earth (on average), and Satan closed that distance without a moments hesitation. He replicated the feat seconds after witnessing another character throw Mars, giving him superluminal reactions as well. And you have to consider that Satan threw Jupiter as a projectile, so it also applies to combat speed.

Satan's Jupiter toss is one of my favorite feats of all time, because it can be divided as both combat and reaction speed, showcases gravity manipulation, telekinesis, and his power copying all in one- and was performed ever so casually.

Right, well for this; I don't see how this is a speed feat in the slightest. If I throw a baseball at 100mph, would you assume that I can fight at 100mph "casually"? This is an amazing feat for gravity manipulation, and telekinesis, and especially his power copying; but I don't really understand (at least the way this was presented) how this classifies as speed, he even seems surprised in those scans you posted that he was even able to do that. So I definitely don't think this is a speed feat, in any way.

That being said, I did say you outclass me in speed, but that you wouldn't be able to blitz me. Here's why:

Genis has auto shields, and his reaction speed is good enough to dodge FTL (arguably MFTL based on Spectrum's showings) at point blank range. At a mile away, it is highly unlikely that you could blitz Genis, or even if you did, his auto shields can take enough damage for him to retaliate. And even better, he can do this:

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Genis can atomize you, and spread you around time and space. And better yet, this attack is done almost accidentally, while being blitzed by a bunch of characters at once. So even if you did blitz, this attack would waste Satan in no time.

In general, similar to his strength, he scales to Mori for his speed. And Mori has even more impressive feats in this regard, and Satan was capable of blitzing him multiple times over.

Yes, Jin has very impressive speed feats, but auto shields make this irrelevant for an initial blitz.

Durability

Important, but you didn't provide any energy durability scans in this section.

He could tank blows from Mori who's planetary+ in striking:

Genis will probably never, ever, get physical in this fight. He rarely gets physical, and especially not when he's vastly out matched in strength.

Those aren't all of his feats in these categories but they should suffice for now

Healing factor, is useful, but not when you have such overwhelming attacks being pressed against you. Especially of Genis' energy attacks.

Power copying

Satan's most broken ability. He can copy nearly any power, hax, or physical technique he sees, and replicate said technique to a higher proficiency and degree than the person he copied it from.

Since your strategy is obviously to use this to copy Genis' abilities and use them even better than he can, let me say this: (and I can't stress this enough) Satan can copy Genis' abilities, no question. Yep, that's right, Satan could/will copy Genis' abilities; and then he's going to keel over, and die in horrible agony.

See, Genis has a bit of, uh, 'unhinged' mind. From my understanding (mostly reading him up on battle forms) he needs to mind read his opponent to see those abilities, supporting this is your own statement:

Satan has demonstrated to telepathically read his opponents mind, allowing him to copy their powers preemptively. It also theoretically allows him to see their ability arsenal

This is a direct use of TP, for which Satan is going to get destroyed. You haven't shown any TP defenses for Satan, so I'm going to assume he has some and give you the benefit of the doubt. That being said, I find it highly unlikely he has TP defenses anywhere near what Genis can dish out. Here he kicks out Moondragon from his mind, via blasting her with his own TP:

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So reading my head is literally impossible, until you show TP feats above what Moondragon can do.

But it gets better, I said that you would "Keel over, and die in horrible agony" well here's why:

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Genis has Cosmic Awareness, it makes him nigh-omniscient. But better yet, it links him to the literal soul of the universe, and his mind is connected; so when the Purple Man manipulates Genis' cosmic awareness, he triggers something neat, like really freaking neat. Genis gets mad. And usually he doesn't get Mad at people, but the times he does, well, they get absolutely barbaric. And this is one of those times: Genis forces Purple Man to view everything. This attack over loads purple mans mind, and leaves him a quivering mess on the floor. This is exactly what happens when Satan reads Genis' mind. Not if, because it seems like this is a go to for Satan, and in doing so, he damns himself.

Conclusion: If Satan tries to mind read Genis, he gets a proper one shot.

Cloning

Yeah cloning is annoying, so before I provide ways of dealing with them I have to ask some questions; are they all as equally strong as Satan? If not, how much weaker are they? Do they get weaker based on distance?

Energy manipulation

Your ability to absorb and manipulate light and heat, are great, but Genis has this ability beat by his own nega bands, and he is far more versatility in this regard.

Also, can only create small portals and nullify weak energy attacks like that? Or can he, say, redirect the entire corona of the Sun being blasted towards him as a laser beam?

The size of the portal doesn't matter, and no, he can create some decently sized ones. Not enough to eat our suns corona or anything, but the portals don't always work like that. He mostly uses them to dissipate energy attacks:

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He casually dissipates Sentry's energy, why is this impressive?

Planet busting in GoH is a mid tier feat. That's not gonna cut it here. I haven't posted all of Satan's feats yet, but he's convincingly Star lvl+

I don't think you understood, this is absolutely well above anything your team has shown in terms of energy attacks. Laying waste casuallyto a bunch of planets, in a universe where solar systems are the size of atoms (with relative size to our universe), he was able to destroy so many of these that the literal light from the explosions, was pouring over into the real universe. Can you even imagine the amount of energy required for some so small to appear so visible to the naked, unaided eye?

Conclusion: All energy attacks get absorbed. Period.

My strategy

If the size was never shown in full, how can we verify that the blast is Solar system lvl?

Because of its aftermath, he was creating a chain reaction that as you can see, was visible from what appears to be the edge of his kree galaxy, below is the full scan:

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The blasts right above the omnidirectional scan I posted confirm this, and its really not that hard to believe since he has several solar system level feats.

Because from the scan you posted, it most definitely wasn't anywhere near that large- so the on-panel evidence blatantly contradicts your statement about the size.

I don't really see how, its not like you see any bodies that aren't blocked out by the size of the blast.

You need to provide context to back up claims such as these, and until you do that (and prove beyond a reasonable doubt Genis is solar system in DC from that scan), this statement is nothing more than an empty boast.

The full set of scans is as follows:

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There's basically all the context. Any way its not like its the only feat I had to back up my statement with:

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Genis-Vell has oneshotted a Storm giant of Surtur strong enough to destroy Asgard and take on King Thor.

So yes, I think he is easily at Solar system levels of DC.

So right off the bat you concede that Genis lacks in physicals? Excellent. Carry on.

Its an advantage you posses, but its not one you will get to use very much.

Well sorry to burst your bubble, but being marginally 'FTL' doesn't cut it. Satan in base has MFTL perceptions and combat speeds for throwing Jupiter, and he becomes increasingly faster in Phase 2 & 3 (his transformations) or when he amps his limiters or absorbs energy. As far as I'm concerned, my overwhelming physical advantage has just been cemented. I'm now irrefutably superior in strength and speed.

Again yes, you have both of those, but its not like you could blitz and hurt me directly, since auto shields/attacks.

Scaling to surfer is acceptable, but those scans themselves weren't impressive and impressive and I saw nothing in there that trumps Satan stat wise.

Surfer's speed is something that can be easily scaled to, and he has (apparent) MFTL combat speed, so at the very least its another impressive speed feat.

Good luck getting it off. Genis is nowhere near fast enough to deploy a technique like that before getting speedblitzed

Its not like its that hard to pull off.... he pulled it off while getting the shit beat out of him... also auto shields.

Well, as I proved earlier, Satan can absorb light, heat, and energy in general and a Star lvl scale. He wouldn't need to mess with your mental energies, though that could count as TP resistance. But it's really you who should watch out, because your offensive energy projections will get absorbed.

What are his "mental energies"? I only stated that Mental manipulation would be futile. That being said, absorbing energy on a star level, is something Genis' Nega-Bands have done easily:

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I don't think this literally means that he could absorb a 5 solar system busting blast, he could at least "Galactus" it and absorb the life energies of it.

*NOTE* this isn't Genis-Vell, its his son using Genis' Nega-Bands. It just counts because he used his dads own equipment to do it.

Satan will copy that

Not if he's dead beforehand.

A TP attack huh? Considering Satan has demonstrated TP already, I'm sure he can copy it without any problems or hassles

Ah, my bread and butter. Saying that someone can copy CA and use it as effectively, well I hate to burst your bubble, but even if he does get past Genis' mental defenses, and he does copy his Cosmic Awareness, hes still dying, it'll just take longer. See, what I forgot to mention is: No its not a TP attack, its literally the exact opposite. It isn't directly like looking at the universe...

And that last bit is why I love arguing CA, becauseIt isn't someone looking at the universe, its the universe looking back at you.

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Yeah, see cosmic awareness is, quite possibly the most powerful 'power I have ever seen. It can make people omniscient, it can give them all sorts of powers, and even better, it can give someone absolute Insanity. The kind of Insanity that's brought about by knowing EVERYTHING. If you copy this power, it will drive you bat-shit crazy in a few seconds, and give you the 'ole Purple Man treatment.

Too bad he can't nullify punches and kicks based on those showings.

Uh, its kinda hard to nullify solid objects with portals. That being said, he does actually have something for that:

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He can just create portals around himself, if you get close you will get sucked into these puppy's.

A decent strategy. Though in the Thor scan he made physical contact, and I just want to say Genis is never tagging either on my team. As for the Purple Man thing, what was the nature of this attack? I won't stretch Satan's power copy and say he can copy cosmic awareness, but is the fry your brain thing a physical brain attack or a metal TP attack? If it's the former, he can regenerate, and if it's the latter he can copy blitz Genis before he uses it.

He doesn't have to make physical contact as I've shown. And also, I don't see why he cant tag your team, especially since, you know, omni-directional blasts are a thing.

Hopefully I've already cleared up the rest of his.

Also, pulling out versions of myself from the timestream? Can you tell me the nature of this technique and how it works, as well as what situations he's used that in? Because it's a broken ability for sure. But I would like to poitn out that Satan copied gravity manipulation (in order to throw a planet), and gravity and time exist relative to each other on the same plane of space. So this technique is not out of his reach to replicate, depending on how it works. If it's just basic time manipulation Satan can copy it.

I believe I uploaded literally all the scans relevant to this, but if not here they are again:

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He just uses some portals to summon them, its not time manipulation. But he literally just draws a younger version of someone, its not that complicated, and also doesn't really have that much context outside of what I've posted (ill link you to a place to read it if needed), but if you kill (or I kill) your younger self, you die, you get erased from the time stream.

Outnumber a guy who can make 200 quadrillion clones? LMAO

To be fair, I made that comment before I knew Satan or Jin could clone.

Most of which can be replicated by Satan

At the cost of his life, sure, I guess.

Well, with those last two abilities (pulling versions of my self from within time), I'm not entirely sure Satan can handle it conventionally, so without a doubt you've proved this to be a tough match already. Despite this though, there are still some scans I haven't displayed so we'll see how things go.

Thankfully Genis also has a few other abilities, but they're mostly kept to space-time manipulation, so its nothing overwhelmingly exotic or anything.

It has become apparent to me that my opponent does not have a sound argument for physicals at all. By his own concession, it's obvious he's no match for Satan in the speed and strength department. The gap in strength, speed, and durability between Genis and Satan are staggering; and can not be argued in my opponents favor by any means or on-panel evidence. So here's a quick summary-

Genis doesn't need speed, or strength to beat you. He has so much more hax than Satan, and his versatility greatly outweighs your advantages.

  • Satan is faster, stronger, and more durable than Genis
  • His stats dwarf Genis' by an inconceivable margin, and that is not debatable
  • Genis has no feats to suggest he can react to or even percieve a speedblitz by Satan in the slightest.
  • He has no durability feats to suggest he can tank more than a few punches (when limits are removed) before he explodes, and I haven't shown Satan's best striking feat yet

Basically: Satan is faster, stronger, therefore I win. Well, I think I've already shown why speedblitz wont work, and Genis' durability is obviously high enough to tank what you can throw at him thanks to his shields. And even without shields, he still has his own crazy durability, for which I have shown him tanking a solar system level blast.

Not to mention the portals Genis will have around him, preventing Satan from getting to close.

  • My opponent thinks that Genis' hax can save him from lack of physicals, but unlucky for him, Satan can copy nearly any power he sees without hesitation. Nothing Genis has shown so far (save 1 ambiguous technique) isn't getting copied by Satan
  • Because of that, I have both the physical and the hax advantage over Genis until my opponent shows better feats

I again cannot stress this enough: copying my abilities literally kills you...

Blitz. That's the main one- Speed blitz. Genis and Satan aren't in the same ballpark speed wise, and he won't even be able to react or know what hits him before getting assaulted with loads of martial arts and other physical strikes; all of which are way above his paygrade to tank or handle.

Genis has displayed offensive TP but he hasn't shown TP resistance. Because of that, Satan can read his mind and copy all the coolest looking "tricks" he sees in his arsenal, and can use them against him. Satan can also absorb offensive energy projections up to a Star lvl scale in DC, and he can amp his limiters in order to make his stats many times greater than they already are. Not only that, Satan can make over 200 quadrillion clones in combat, so my team holds an overwhelming number advantage. And between clones, speedblitzing, power copying and other techniques, I'm afraid Genis' chance of beating Satan are slim to none.

Since the entirety of your argument depends on Satan's ability to copy, and his physical advantage, its basically safe to say this one wont be that hard.

Not only has Genis shown TP resistance far higher than what Satan has shown offensively, but he cant copy without breaching Genis' mental defenses. Either way, below is my full strategy:

Strats

Genis creates a ton of portals all across the battlefield, this makes any energy attack useless, and also acts as a deterrent against speed blitz. Then he takes Satan to the microverse, where he will be very disoriented from the experience (the Sentry scan proves this) for a long time, while hes tripping balls, Genis will take a baby (and or younger version) of Satan, and puts the cosmic 45. to his head and blows his brain out. Satan dies.

Alternatively, Satan will mind read, and then: Satan dies.

After Satan is dealt with, Genis can join Fleeze and take out Jin rather easily, either using the same attacks, or just blowing him away. Until my opponent shows more versatility from his character, or that he has any form of TP resistance, Satan gets genuinely stomped. And its really Satan's own fault if we're being honest...

Your turn.

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#49 Posted by jardinain2 (5224 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Edited by God_Vulcan (7768 posts) - - Show Bio

@jardinain2: Damn nice post. And I didn't know you were a fan of Marvin the Martian lol