I probably will refrain from voting given I have a preference for one character and I don’t want that to sway my decision, but I’ll definitely gIve this a read through.
Arthur Curry is the Half-Atlantean / Half-Human son of Queen Atlanna of Atlantis and lighthouse keeper Thomas Curry. His physical nature triggered dormant genes that make him physically superior to other atlanteans. He inherited telepathic abilities through his royal lineage from Queen Atlanna. Arthur also carries a powerful mystical trident as a symbol of power. He is considered a super-atlantean.
Aquaman is considered one of DC's most powerful heroes and a founding member of the Justice League.
Physicals -- High Tier Powerhouse
Aquaman possesses immeasurable strength and is one of the strongest characters on Earth. This is one of his best known features.
Aquaman is one of the strongest beings on Earth.
This was Atlantis and the shape of the world before Atlantis fell. It’s much larger than Asia.
Evidence that this was the intent for the same strike.
Here is the strike that shattered the continent of Atlantis.
Seven kingdoms were destroyed from a single blow across the continent. The continent runs from west of the Maritimes in Canada south through the Atlantic where modern Atlantis rests east of Boston and the kingdom of Xebel sat at the Bermuda triangle and the continent continued to the southern outposts near Antarctica as shown in Death of a King.
Plus Throne of Atlantis pointed out the continent destruction as a foreshadow to the feat in Death of a King. Johns was clear in both storylines in how he was portraying and validating Aquaman's physical power levels.
That was the single blow that shattered the continent.
Aquaman caught the attack, didn't die from the attack, and we can see the residual power of that attack around him. The reaction from people who saw it is a method the writer used to demonstrate the intent and validify the feat. That's a large continent feat while injured and without excessive strain.
That should be enough to demonstrate that the Atlantis scepter feat demonstrated Aquaman catching an attack that destroyed a continent. This is a well documented feat foreshadowed in preceding storylines and backed up with statements after the fact.
Aquaman casually created an explosion with strike under enough water pressure to be in excess of a nuclear strike. After that, Aquaman pushed close a section of the Mid-Atlantic Trench in order to seal in the kingdom of the Trench. In that process he forced a kingdom to close enough that a single volcanic eruption would fill it with lava. Shifting a tectonic plate like that can be calculated from country to small planet level. It doesn't really matter on where in the calcs at this point; it's impressive.
Aquaman can scale higher.
Aquaman is stated to be 100 times stronger than Truth Superman.
This was in the same story where Superman stated he was at a hundredth of his usual power. That math isn't hard. In that same story Clark pointed out that Arthur had never beaten him, which implies numerous fights between the two. God of Strength Superman questioned his own strength compared to Wonder Woman during Darkseid War, and Wonder Woman compares to Aquaman as well. And vice versa.
All 3 characters are in the same physical strength tier.
Aquaman is an equal to Wonder Woman based on the Rebirth guide entry to demonstrate that assessment. Plus significant battles with Wonder Woman (many), Superman, Martian Manhunter, Hercules, Shaggyman, and more.
It's true that Aquaman has a weakness to piercing weapons relative to his other durability, but that's still far in excess of standard humans requiring advanced weapons to do significant damage and not different from many other high tier characters.
Aquaman's density is greater than steel and more flexible.
Asgardian flesh and bone are about three times denser than similar human tissue, contributing to the gods' superhuman strength and weight. An average male god can lift about 30 tons; an average goddess can lift about 25 tons. -- Thor & Hercules Encyclopaedia Mythologica
Comparing to asgardians who have approximately 3 times human density (similar to concrete) Aquaman would have approximately 3 times the density. While lacking invulnerability, this density prevents those attacks from penetrating and makes it almost impossible to create significant damage without specialized or extremely high powered weapons.
Aquaman makes up for this "weakness" with regenerative capabilities and healing factor.
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That shows Aquaman getting right back up, Poseidon tanking Wonder Woman's blow and slapping her away, and then Aquaman dropping Poseidon to the ground right after getting impaled with the damage gone.
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That was after this:
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Ocean Master was cheating to win the fight, the trident was magically charged and created a small explosion underwater, and Orm continued to drag his trident through Arthur while Arthur made a telepathic summons before getting back up to heal in seconds.
Aquaman's healing factor has shown flesh wounds disappear almost instantly or within a panel, broken bones or internal damage takes longer, and massive brain trauma took considerable time.
Aquaman also protects himself with his considerable superspeed such as in a superspeed fight with Superman.
Aquaman is a tier below Superman when it comes to speed potential but clearly superfast.
Jackson Hyde's sister Delilah can match pace with an atlantean speeder, and atlantean ships have been shown to be massively hypersonic. Aquaman is faster.
Mera can react to and dodge lightning under deep ocean pressure and resistance, and we have seen Aquaman react to lightning similarly. DC atlanteans are faster on the surface than in the water. Mera thinks she's faster but that was never proven and she could not touch him dodging her attacks during their encounter in the Perpetua events. ;-)
This is more impressive:
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reversed order
Aquaman is capable of reacting to and deflecting 6 blue plasma blasts at a time from multiple attackers. That quantifies to FTL reaction speeds and matches Wonder Woman's similar reactions to similar attacks.
Aquaman also has resistance feats to pretty much everything and I will go into more detail as needed instead of listing them all here. Aquaman is a physical powerhouse.
The Trident -- A Symbol of Power
We can see a basic example of the trident's power at the end of the physicals section above when it was used to blast jets of water from the ocean below to drop the supertech aircraft in the sky.
Someone not experienced with Aquaman's trident was more than a match for 31st century's Gold Lantern. During that arc we found out that his trident had drained the life from a planet, stored the oceans of that planet in an extradimensional space for a thousand years, and restored both in moments.
Before you point out that this is out of character I will beat you to it. I'm not going to argue that Aquaman drains a planet in character. I'm showing how powerful the trident can be. Bunn's run did demonstrate that Aquaman uses a lot of magic when he has enough available, and Abnett's run demonstrated that Aquaman will use a lot of magic when there is a lot of ambient magic available in the environment. It is in character for Aquaman to use magic when needed or when there's readily available magical energy.
Draining a planet is unlikely but using the trident to lesser extents is much more likely.
This includes weather and elemental manipulation, magical blasts, and other effects that fall under the general heading of "magic".
Water manipulation is one of the most likely uses and we've seen that drop an entire squad of full powered kryptonians.
Aquaman's trident also manipulates and redirects energy. The trident was the only thing they could find powerful enough to destroy the Crown of Thorns and free Atlantis. This is impressive because the force field it was generating was considered unbreakable by Cyborg. This is extremely impressive considering what breaking points can be calculated and the resources available in comics. I can scale that well extreme without trying, tbh. ;-)
I'll post more on the magical capabilities as needed. Like resistance feats, the trident capabilities are too numerous to list them all here. The trident is OP.
The Life Force -- A Fundamental Force of Creation
Aquaman is telepathic. This is one aspect of the life force Aquaman wields that he very typically uses to communicate with sea life.
It's a connection to all life, not just the life in the sea.
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Aquaman's TP runs much deeper than standard TP.
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The Celestial Isthmus
The Celestial Isthmus is a realm of pure thought that connect Aquaman more closely to sea life and we very often see that connection. Aquaman has shown that he has the skill to rip Kordax, who has similar power, into that realm of pure thought and then use that realm to consume Kordax's mind.
Kordax is several hundreds of years old. That's a lot of experience even if he did tend to use more force than skill.
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Connecting to the Karaqan gave Aquaman it's life history.
Chimera / Creature King hit Aquaman with a physical contact TP attack after earlier TP attacks failed and Aquaman forced him out.
Aquaman connecting to Warhead gave Aquaman Warhead's history.
Aquaman later forced Warhead to see visions of the future.
The examples above (other than Manta's explanation of connecting to the life web) all take place before the Triumvirate of Sea Gods managed to bring Aquaman's connection to the life force out. His telepathic powers are more powerful after that point. For example:
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Aquaman telepathically contacted the essence of a god after Namma consumed said god and restored that essence. Those are the same gods whom he earlier restored to godhood in the arc with is powers. Namma is the mother of all gods in that arc and an extremely powerful opponent.
We're going from Aquaman in Atlantis accidentally waking the Dead King in Antarctica half a world away by casually telepathically communicating to sea life across the planet to Aquaman who can do this:
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Aquaman was still missing his connection to the Life Force at that point. He was using a drained trident to focus the echoes of his power. He converted the Tear of Extinction into something positive, empowered Arion's Conch, and gave that to Mera so she could broadcast a telepathic message across the universe. All with almost no access to his full power.
Aquaman does not flex his telepathic power in character with the exception of getting attacked by other telepaths.
I'll go into more details as necessary. Aquaman's telepathy goes far beyond telepathy in nature and the source is massive power.
The Battlefield
This was an interesting choice. Why you made this choice might become more interesting in a moment because it's a battlefield that favors Aquaman more than you might think.
Aquaman's tattoos are a divine gift that mark him as one of them and friend to the oceans. Krakoa is a living island creature in the Pacific Ocean. The entire battlefield is not only surrounded by ocean with many coves and water sources, it's a giant ocean creature that's going to recognize Aquaman as a friend.
Riding giant sea monsters into battle is very in character for Aquaman to do you and you chose to have the battle take place on a giant sea monster. That giant sea monster also feeds on mutant energy.
It's very likely that Aquaman uses the entire battlefield against Jean in this scenario.
Initial Thoughts
I have a hard time seeing Jean's telekinesis winning this for her. Her mountain level statements don't seem to compare to Aquaman's physicals or trident feats. Her primary threat is her telepathy, and Aquaman only needs enough capability to resist it long enough to take a physical win.
OG X-Men. Omega-Level Telepath. Former Omega-Level Telekinetic. Psi of the Highest Order. Prime host of the Phoenix Force.
Here is her Marvel Wiki page; here is her CV page.
*Note: I will be presenting feats of Teen Jean, a time-displaced version of Jean who is weaker than her adult version. Anything Teen Jean has done, adult Jean can do just as well, if not better. Furthermore, Jean's powers have steadily grown throughout the decades, meaning that her current version is more powerful than her 60s-90s versions. Any older feat that Jean has done, current Jean would be able to replicate with maybe even more ease and precision. Keep this in mind.*
Telepathy
Raw Power
Although Aquaman's telepathy is powerful, it is still well below Jean's.
1) Jean Grey floods Life Seed Nate Grey's mind with the pain he caused to everyone in the world, which overwhelms him. The Shaman version of Nate is easily a planetary-level telepath, and the Life Seed version is even more powerful.
Infiltrates Knull's mind, uncovering his history as well as his weakness.
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3) Harms Onslaught with a psychic blast while in the Astral Plane.
4) Psychically connects the millions of mutant minds on Earth as well as those near Mars:
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5) Affects Juggernaut's mind through his helmet, which is known to block out psychic attacks and has worked against Xavier in the past:
Defence
1) Shields the minds of everyone in New York City from a fatal psychic attack. NYC has a population of a little under 8.5 million, and she did this while multi-tasking.
3) While weakened, resists Onslaught's attempts at tearing information from her mind:
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Skill
This is an aspect of telepathy in which Jean > Aquaman.
1) Casually removes Cassandra Nova's suggestion from Storm's mind:
2) While Emma Frost fails miserably, Jean is able to deal with the psychic traps set by Cassandra Nova in Xavier's mind:
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3) Shuts off the Bruce Banner aspect in Hulk's mind. Even though he was allowing Jean to do this, Hulk's mind is known for being extremely difficult for telepaths to affect.
4) While captive, Jean was able to probe Exodus' mind and relay the information to Xavier:
5) Telepathically controlling Cyclops' motor functions while his mind was shut down:
Statements
There are tons of statements that place Jean Grey as the most powerful telepath of Earth 616.
1) Cyclops refers to Jean as "the most powerful telepath the world has ever known", and he is very familiar with Xavier, Emma Frost, etc.
2) Referred to as "the most powerful telepathic mind on the planet":
3) Xavier himself says Jean is "potentially the most powerful psychic in the world" and admits that he is "nothing compared to what Jean may become":
4) Xavier says to Jean that she is "one of the strongest beings on the planet" and that "no other mutant has powers even close to yours":
Telekinesis
A power that Aquaman does not have, and one that he can't really counter. Although Jean's telekinesis isn't as powerful as her telepathy, it's still strong enough to make up for the stat advantage that Aquaman has.
Jean can do a lot of cool and unique things with her telekinesis.
1) Casually breaks Sabretooth's leg:
2) Teen Jean is capable of molecular-level telekinesis. With effort, she collects a spherical volume of air to wrap around the X-Men, sifts through the vacuum for oxygen molecules, and balances the air pressure to prevent exploding:
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3) Puts Deadpool to sleep by cutting off the flow of blood to his brain:
4) Teen Jean enhances her strike with TK to send a massive sea creature flying away underwater. The same creature was giving Namor a hard time.
Counters
Physicals
Before I get into the physicals, I'd like to present this:
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In DC/Marvel: All Access #4, which is considered canon despite some inconsistencies, a 90s Jean Grey was able to harm Superman and hold him back with her telekinesis. I'm not going to bring up Cannonball vs. Aquaman because admitting that their fight was legit would be a huge disservice to Aquaman. However, what Jean did against Superman is quite believable. There was also no notable speed difference between them, meaning their combat speed is roughly the same.
Aquaman is one of the strongest beings on Earth.
Who is making the statement? Because that's quite important when gauging the validity of a statement.
I can find tons of statements that say the same about Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, etc. Aquaman and Wonder Woman are roughly equal, but both Superman and Martian Manhunter are consistently above them.
This was Atlantis and the shape of the world before Atlantis fell. It’s much larger than Asia.
Evidence that this was the intent for the same strike.
Here is the strike that shattered the continent of Atlantis.
Seven kingdoms were destroyed from a single blow across the continent. The continent runs from west of the Maritimes in Canada south through the Atlantic where modern Atlantis rests east of Boston and the kingdom of Xebel sat at the Bermuda triangle and the continent continued to the southern outposts near Antarctica as shown in Death of a King.
Plus Throne of Atlantis pointed out the continent destruction as a foreshadow to the feat in Death of a King. Johns was clear in both storylines in how he was portraying and validating Aquaman's physical power levels.
That was the single blow that shattered the continent.
Aquaman caught the attack, didn't die from the attack, and we can see the residual power of that attack around him. The reaction from people who saw it is a method the writer used to demonstrate the intent and validify the feat. That's a large continent feat while injured and without excessive strain.
That should be enough to demonstrate that the Atlantis scepter feat demonstrated Aquaman catching an attack that destroyed a continent. This is a well documented feat foreshadowed in preceding storylines and backed up with statements after the fact.
So I have seen you use this feat before, and I have several issues with it.
Other than the image you are using as an approximation, what evidence is there that Atlantis is bigger than Asia?
The busting-capability of the attack is likely due to the Scepter itself, which can cause earthquakes.
Can you prove that this feat is consistent for Aquaman and not an outlier?
And if you can prove that it is consistent, this was Aquaman catching the scepter, meaning he does not exert that level of force with his attacks.
Aquaman casually created an explosion with strike under enough water pressure to be in excess of a nuclear strike. After that, Aquaman pushed close a section of the Mid-Atlantic Trench in order to seal in the kingdom of the Trench. In that process he forced a kingdom to close enough that a single volcanic eruption would fill it with lava. Shifting a tectonic plate like that can be calculated from country to small planet level. It doesn't really matter on where in the calcs at this point; it's impressive.
Country level is more believable and consistent for Aquaman, so I can buy that. However, this feat happened underwater, where Aquaman is stronger. Our battle takes place on land. I never refer to Aquaman as being "weaker" on land, but he is indeed stronger when underwater.
Aquaman is stated to be 100 times stronger than Truth Superman.
This was in the same story where Superman stated he was at a hundredth of his usual power. That math isn't hard. In that same story Clark pointed out that Arthur had never beaten him, which implies numerous fights between the two. God of Strength Superman questioned his own strength compared to Wonder Woman during Darkseid War, and Wonder Woman compares to Aquaman as well. And vice versa.
Wonder Man and Aquaman being equal is something I agree with. But Aquaman is not consistently on Clark's level, and neither is Diana. Arthur definitely has some good feats of being on Clark's level, but they are not consistent.
I don't want to have to lowball Aquaman with feats, but I will if I have to ;)
Aquaman is an equal to Wonder Woman based on the Rebirth guide entry to demonstrate that assessment. Plus significant battles with Wonder Woman (many), Superman, Martian Manhunter, Hercules, Shaggyman, and more.
Equal to Wonder Woman but still below Superman, Martian Manhunter, etc.
I won't bother addressing Aquaman's durability or regeneration since they won't really matter here. I don't think Jean's TK blasts are powerful enough to really harm Aquaman, and she's more likely to use it defensively or to just restrain/ragdoll him while she TP's him.
Aquaman is a tier below Superman when it comes to speed potential but clearly superfast.
I'm glad you can admit that ;)
DC atlanteans are faster on the surface than in the water.
Evidence?
As for Mera, while weakened, she was able to contend against Ocean Master, who has never had an issue with Aquaman's speed. All 3 of them are in the same ballpark.
Aquaman is capable of reacting to and deflecting 6 blue plasma blasts at a time from multiple attackers. That quantifies to FTL reaction speeds and matches Wonder Woman's similar reactions to similar attacks.
Spinning his trident fast enough to deflect plasma blasts does not mean he was reacting to each individual shot. Not only that, but plasma is not light speed.
Trident
Someone not experienced with Aquaman's trident was more than a match for 31st century's Gold Lantern. During that arc we found out that his trident had drained the life from a planet, stored the oceans of that planet in an extradimensional space for a thousand years, and restored both in moments.
Before you point out that this is out of character I will beat you to it. I'm not going to argue that Aquaman drains a planet in character. I'm showing how powerful the trident can be. Bunn's run did demonstrate that Aquaman uses a lot of magic when he has enough available, and Abnett's run demonstrated that Aquaman will use a lot of magic when there is a lot of ambient magic available in the environment. It is in character for Aquaman to use magic when needed or when there's readily available magical energy.
Draining a planet is unlikely but using the trident to lesser extents is much more likely.
This includes weather and elemental manipulation, magical blasts, and other effects that fall under the general heading of "magic".
I won't deny that Aquaman will use his trident to do some magic stuff, but for what is considered in character for him to do, it's basically limited to lightning and water manipulation. Even though the trident was used to drain a planet, that does not mean all of the trident's attacks are planet-level in AP, and that includes its piercing ability. Aquaman has never demonstrated that level of power with his trident.
Water manipulation is one of the most likely uses and we've seen that drop an entire squad of full powered kryptonians.
The location of our battle isn't on Krakoa's beaches, and the amount of water nearby isn't significant enough to be a factor. If Aquaman were to summon a tidal wave, it would have to travel past the beaches and through the forests before reaching our location, which would take some time and be quite telegraphed. Jean could also literally just fly above the tidal wave's crest and be fine.
Aquaman's trident also manipulates and redirects energy. The trident was the only thing they could find powerful enough to destroy the Crown of Thorns and free Atlantis. This is impressive because the force field it was generating was considered unbreakable by Cyborg. This is extremely impressive considering what breaking points can be calculated and the resources available in comics. I can scale that well extreme without trying, tbh. ;-)
Manipulating energy is pretty useless against Jean Grey since all she really uses is telepathy and telekinesis. Unless the trident can manipulate/redirect those specific kinds of energy, it isn't something of concern.
Furthermore, it is entirely possible that Jean Grey uses her TK to literally rip the trident from Aquaman's hands and toss it far away, thus removing his primary form of offence and significantly impairing his ability to do anything to Jean.
Life Force / Telepathy
I won't bother discussing the first parts of this section since I don't really deem what you posted as relevant or noteworthy. Communicating with sea life is all fine and dandy, but even if it's planetary, it is quite useless in a telepathic fight. Range is such a minor factor in gauging telepaths when it comes to their combat capabilities.
Aquaman telepathically contacted the essence of a god after Namma consumed said god and restored that essence. Those are the same gods whom he earlier restored to godhood in the arc with is powers. Namma is the mother of all gods in that arc and an extremely powerful opponent.
Sounds fancy, but contacting the essence of an extremely powerful god does not really mean much unless you prove how telepathically powerful this god is. And even then, how does it apply to a psychic battle?
There's also the fact that Jean Grey has telepathic feats against Knull, Nightmare, Onslaught, Gamesmaster, and the Phoenix Force. These are godly beings with actual telepathic feats/statements to back them up ;) So if you want to get into gods, I'm all for it.
We're going from Aquaman in Atlantis accidentally waking the Dead King in Antarctica half a world away by casually telepathically communicating to sea life across the planet to Aquaman who can do this:
Jean Grey has plenty of planetary-level telepathy feats and she basically scales above every major telepath on Earth 616.
Aquaman was still missing his connection to the Life Force at that point. He was using a drained trident to focus the echoes of his power. He converted the Tear of Extinction into something positive, empowered Arion's Conch, and gave that to Mera so she could broadcast a telepathic message across the universe. All with almost no access to his full power.
That's a hell of a lot of context for a feat that is essentially just telepathic communication. Once again, range is really not a significant factor, even if it's universal. It does not apply to combat, nor is it remotely consistent for Aquaman's level of telepathy.
Aquaman does not flex his telepathic power in character with the exception of getting attacked by other telepaths.
Which will be happening here right off the bat. Beyond the few TP communication/range feats you presented, you haven't really shown anything to suggest that Aquaman can contend against Jean's telepathy for more than a second. Nothing about his defences, nothing for psychic battles, etc. I know this is only your first post, but I was expecting a lot more considering you are up against one of Marvel's prime telepaths.
Battlefield
Aquaman's tattoos are a divine gift that mark him as one of them and friend to the oceans. Krakoa is a living island creature in the Pacific Ocean. The entire battlefield is not only surrounded by ocean with many coves and water sources, it's a giant ocean creature that's going to recognize Aquaman as a friend.
Riding giant sea monsters into battle is very in character for Aquaman to do you and you chose to have the battle take place on a giant sea monster. That giant sea monster also feeds on mutant energy.
It's very likely that Aquaman uses the entire battlefield against Jean in this scenario.
You cheeky bastard. I really wasn't expecting the battlefield to play a role in this, I just chose this location to give Aquaman some water to splash around in.
I will entertain it though, and raise you.
Although Krakoa is a living island and a sentient being, it isn't a sea creature, nor is it from the ocean itself.
There is nothing to suggest that his divine gift would function the same way on an island from a different universe and ocean.
You didn't provide any evidence that Aquaman could command an island-sized, sentient, hivemind being.
Krakoa is "controlled" by Cypher and Black Tom, two mutants and allies of Jean Grey. It is constantly monitored by the mutants, and its consciousness was also expanded via Xavier's telepathy. Jean's TP > Xavier's TP.
Other than some very few exceptions, non-mutants are not allowed on Krakoa, meaning the island would be hostile towards Aquaman and fight to get him off.
If you're going to count the island as a character that can play a factor in this battle, we can also include the island's inhabitants as factors :)
I have a hard time seeing Jean's telekinesis winning this for her. Her mountain level statements don't seem to compare to Aquaman's physicals or trident feats. Her primary threat is her telepathy, and Aquaman only needs enough capability to resist it long enough to take a physical win.
Mountain-level statements, island-level feats, and much better via scaling. TK is a pretty hard counter to someone like Aquaman, who mainly relies on CQC.
Conclusion
I chose to limit each section to 5 or less feats, but there are plenty of more examples I can provide if necessary. I also chose not to get too much into scaling in my first post, which is why I linked the CV pages of many of the characters I mentioned. However, every character I did mention (especially the ones I linked), are at least high tiers. Some like Knull and Onslaught are above high tiers.
As for the battle itself, I don't see any way for Aquaman to win this. Jean's telepathy is significantly better than Aquaman's, and that's considering my knowledge of Aquaman and not just what you presented. Whether it's raw power, skill, or psychic battles, Jean is superior. The only thing Aquaman might have over Jean is range, but range is the least important factor when it comes to two telepaths battling.
As for telekinesis, it should be good enough to hold back Aquaman for quite a while. First off, Jean tends to fight while flying, meaning that Aquaman won't ever be close enough to abuse his physicals. Second of all, if things do get physical, Jean's shields are powerful enough to block Aquaman for a time. There's also the fact that Jean can rip away Aquaman's trident or just ragdoll him, neither of which he can counter. Speed is a negligible factor here, and Aquaman won't get the chance to abuse his strength in CQC.
Your attempt at taking advantage of the battlefield was ballsy but seriously flawed. Kudos to you for trying though ;)
The way I see the battle going: Aquaman charges Jean at the 50 foot starting distance. Jean flies up out of reach before he reaches her and either begins to assault Aquaman's mind or telekinetically restrains him first. He might last a few seconds against a full-out psychic assault, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would be downed. Ultimately, this battle will mainly be determined by telepathy.
Jean wins. GG.
*Sidenote: Let me be clear about something: I am very, very fair and unbiased when it comes to Aquaman's feats. I like him enough that I respect him as a character, but I don't like him too much to the point that I wank him in a biased way. I am very quick to defend Aquaman's capabilities and I am against the constant lowballing that he is subject to. That being said, he is not on Superman's level on a consistent basis. Could he give Superman a great fight? Sure. Could he beat Superman for a majority? Absolutely not. You and Ecstatic are definitely the two biggest supporters of Aquaman on CV, and I respect that. But I will not hesitate to call out the wank if it comes to that, especially since you place Aquaman as equal to or above the likes of Superman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Thor, etc.*
It's a bit weird to respond to the basic introduction but there's something important to point out here.
Furthermore, Jean's powers have steadily grown throughout the decades, meaning that her current version is more powerful than her 60s-90s versions.
It would be facetious to claim Jean's power grew over time but Arthur's did not. That's one of the biggest reasons old lowballing scans are so bad. Aquaman was significantly changed going into New 52 and that's the version that carried over into Rebirth and the current continuity.
I will be presenting feats of Teen Jean, a time-displaced version of Jean who is weaker than her adult version. Anything Teen Jean has done, adult Jean can do just as well, if not better.
The time displaced teen X-men were also significantly changed in the experiences they had and that experience was no longer valid after they returned. Jean might have the potential to replicate those feats but that does not mean she has.
Telepathy
There's no question that Jean is an extremely powerful and skilled telepath. Just showing that she's powerful and skilled does not mean she can win or will win quickly.
Jean Grey floods Life Seed Nate Grey's mind with the pain he caused to everyone in the world, which overwhelms him.
That's not really an accurate representation of what was happening there, however.
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That was Jean, Psylocke, the Stepfords, No Girl, and Sage all assaulting Nate's mind while Nate was already controlling Legion, and they still couldn't get in without Nate being distracted by Storm's lightning assault. In your scan Jean is already in Nate's mind because she's trapped there.
Nate was still also facing all the other telepath's except for Legion as well as fending off a physical assault during those scans you gave, and you might need to clarify how the pain he was causing was "everyone in the world".
It's also not like the combined power of all those telepaths and other X-men remotely stopped Nate. If we consider Nate world level then Jean needing all that help only to be massively outclassed doesn't make for a good argument for her power level.
What are Knull's telepathic feats to show why that was impressive? The only thing Jean did was some digging for information.
That information overwhelmed her.
Harms Onslaught with a psychic blast while in the Astral Plane.
Did Jean defeat Onslaught on the astral plane?
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No. Onslaught casually pulled Jean into the Astral plane and easily manipulated her prior to that attack (images 1 and 2). After than Onslaught defeated Jean like she was nothing. If you are trying to somehow scale Jean off of that attack then it's an extremely poor example. She was nothing compared to Onslaught in the encounter.
Psychically connects the millions of mutant minds on Earth as well as those near Mars
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When Aquaman was trying to power the Clarion he was connecting to everyone. Everyone meaning everyone. The Life Force is in the same power group as the Speed Force. That included Wonder Woman, who has massive telepathic resistance . After Aquaman recovered his powers and nearly died killing the Space Kraken he was capable of hiding from Martian Manhunter's and Jarro's telepathic searches while he took some time to himself hiding away from the world.
Wonder Woman was capable of resisting Braniac who had bound and stolen billions of minds at the time, and Martian Manhunter had the power to shield himself and Superman. Brainiac stated he was nearly capable of massive reality altering with the minds he had, and he easily froze psychically froze the minds of everyone on the planet.
Affects Juggernaut's mind through his helmet, which is known to block out psychic attacks and has worked against Xavier in the past
Jean's also failed to bypass that helmet. Those look like it's hard to quantify and an outlier.
Shields the minds of everyone in New York City from a fatal psychic attack. NYC has a population of a little under 8.5 million, and she did this while multi-tasking
A city level feat seems minor compared to the higher numbers these characters can show.
That's just more high tier telepath scaling. I'm not questioning that Jean's a high tier telepath. Feats like that demonstrate effectiveness against Cassandra Nova, not necessarily Aquaman who has feats of his own.
While weakened, resists Onslaught's attempts at tearing information from her mind
Onslaught also had not assimilated Professor X's full power yet as shown in that scan. It's not consistent with the other scans I just gave of Onslaught easily dealing with Jean.
This is an aspect of telepathy in which Jean > Aquaman.
Jean has demonstrated better skill than Post-Flashpoint Aquaman has. Some of those examples do not look particularly impressive but I don't disagree that Jean is more skilled.
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In the Typhoid Fever event Jean was unable to find Typhoid Mary by scanning for her. When Mary was amped Jean pointed out Mary's inexperience.
Mary was inexperienced and still capable of forcing Jean to fight Storm.
Mary who was amped and to the point she could control Jean had her telepathy broken by Iron Fist's chi. Chi is life force energy that Danny Rand uses.
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The death kraken could absorb all life by touching a the planet's oceans. Aquaman drove straight down it's throat and killed it, and didn't die to that level of drain when he killed it (also during which all of Earth's heroes were powerless to stop it) because of his Life Force connection. Aquaman has demonstrated a lot more energy against something that can kill all life on a planet and far more than Danny Rand.
Jean's skill doesn't seem like it's nearly enough looking at those interactions.
There are tons of statements that place Jean Grey as the most powerful telepath of Earth 616.
How is that different from the statements regarding Aquaman's physicals? Or similar statements from the publisher?
His telepathic abilities make him one of the most powerful minds on the planet. If one chooses to underestimate the sea king, they do so at their own peril.
That is from his official DC bio. If Aquaman didn't have one of the most powerful telepathic minds on the planet I wouldn't have offered to rep him in this CaV. ;-)
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The Life Force is one of the greatest forces in the universe. Aquaman doesn't flex that power much, but that does not change how much power he has available. He was one of the individuals capable of contributing to creating a new Totality in Justice League 37. Note that the Life Force in the DC verse connects all living creatures down to their souls.
Telekinesis
Jean's TK is useful and impressive enough but it's not enough to deal with Aquaman.
Jean is not an Omega level telekinetic. Here main strength is in her telepathy. Most of those feats are tossing back or around individuals based on their weight.
Apocalypse is a jobber and doesn't weigh anything significant here. Apocalypse isn't using any of his powers to fight back.
A pissed off Teen Jean releases a TK blast that sends Thor, Rogue, and Scarlet Witch flying. When Thor threatens her, she sends him flying again
They don't weight that much. Look at Scarlet Witch in that scan. No damage done.
Knocks Hulk down and then lifts him up in the air
She had Iceman's help knocking Hulk down and Hulk still doesn't weigh that much.
Restrains Thing with telekinetic chains
She was struggling with Thing because of his willpower and needed to trick him. Aquaman has better measurable feats than Thing and has a magic trident. This is better than the feats you were using for scaling above, however.
Jean tosses a new version of Peak, a S.W.O.R.D Space Station, into orbit for Magneto to catch
The original peak was massive, easily weighing millions of tons, and the one Jean threw was even bigger.
Proof of weight? This still looks smaller than a mountain level feat.
The issue with those scans is none of those opponents are fighting back with telepathic summons, a magical trident, or even direct telepathy. That's not the case for Aquaman.
Jean shields the X-Men from an island-busting explosion
That was not an island busting explosion.
That was a large explosion that destroyed things on the surface of Muir Island. It destroyed buildings and not even all the trees.
Jean shields from yet another island-busting explosion
What island is that? They are not on the island and the pressure wave is stated enough to shred the plane in the scan.
Protects herself and a group of X-Men from a pissed off Magneto
A pissed of Magneto with Lorna Dane fighting against him to help.
Out of character, far far weaker durability or strength than Aquaman.
Teen Jean is capable of molecular-level telekinesis. With effort, she collects a spherical volume of air to wrap around the X-Men, sifts through the vacuum for oxygen molecules, and balances the air pressure to prevent exploding
The strain is too much for Jean to speak and the difference between Earth and space is only 1 atmosphere of pressure. How is this going to help her here?
Puts Deadpool to sleep by cutting off the flow of blood to his brain
Out of character, far far weaker adaptation to pressure than Aquaman. If Aquaman can swim to the Earth's core where the pressure is 3.6 million atmospheres not crushing his eyes or blowing his eardrums or constricting blood flow with the pressure against his skin (and veins and arteries and capillaries) why would Jean's far far less pressure attempting to restrict his blood flow do anything at all?
Aquaman easily handled pressure well beyond what Jean can apply,
Teen Jean enhances her strike with TK to send a massive sea creature flying away underwater. The same creature was giving Namor a hard time
Far away where? I see an image of Jean striking a creature.
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Jean's strike doesn't look anywhere near as impressive as Aquaman hurling a Russian nuclear sub out from the ocean floor. Namor does not have as impressive feats as Aquaman either.
Your Counters
Your first point is rather interesting.
In DC/Marvel: All Access #4, which is considered canon despite some inconsistencies, a 90s Jean Grey was able to harm Superman and hold him back with her telekinesis.
Why would you try to scale Jean to Superman and claim Aquaman cannot scale to Superman? Aquaman's physical feats surpass Jean's TK feats in striking power and lifting power, and Aquaman has more showings against Superman than Jean does. Jean's TK feats don't come close to Superman's strength, striking, or lifting.
Here are some quotes from Dan Abnett's interview...
I think the handling of that scene originated with a face-to-face conversation I had with Geoff Johns before we even got into the scripting, about that confrontation being a really important thing to do because of what it says about Aquaman. We wouldn’t have considered doing that if we hadn’t thought it would be an even enough fight for neither one of them to seem like a bully. I think Aquaman’s power level, and Mera’s certainly, are often underestimated.
I don’t think either of us is suggesting that Aquaman outclasses Superman, but he certainly can hold his own. I think he’s possibly the most likely member of the Justice League --- with the exception of Wonder Woman--- who can go toe-to-toe like that and stand even a chance of soaking it up and doing some damage.
So using a fight scene to illustrate that, we have to show that Aquaman can punch the hell out of Superman, that they can go toe-to-toe and scrap for an entire issue, and Aquaman will keep getting back up and keep opposing him.
DC has told us that Aquaman is capable of going toe to toe with Superman for an entire issue and capable of holding his own. The general hierarchy is going to give Superman the wins in physicals (faster and more durable) but Superman cannot withstand a trident strike either or deal with the magical attacks.
I'm not going to bring up Cannonball vs. Aquaman because admitting that their fight was legit would be a huge disservice to Aquaman.
It's good that you don't for 2 reasons; 1) Jean is fighting Post-Flashpoint Aquaman so that's not a valid version; and 2) You would be ignoring Aquaman's increase in power over time that you proposed for Jean.
However, what Jean did against Superman is quite believable.
Why? She has nothing to demonstrate that capacity. Superman has moved planets multiple times, has feats and statements destroying planets, and has feats much higher than planets on his high end. Jean doesn't. If you choose to ignore the feats and statements that Aquaman as telling us he's capable against Superman how can you possibly think Jean compares?
There was also no notable speed difference between them, meaning their combat speed is roughly the same.
There was no notable speed difference because Superman wasn't trying to use his speed. Superman not using speed against Jean doesn't indicate anything. If it did almost everyone in the DC verse would scale to Superman's speed.
Jean has failed to get a TK shield up many times. Superman rebuilt the moon in minutes piece by piece. Jean has lost to many people without super-speed very often and never demonstrated speed on Superman's level.
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Aquaman's Trident was effectively used against super-speed specifically shown to be used. Gold Lantern is faster than Superboy and could not deal with the power of the Trident without help. Mon-El and Superboy both used super-speed to help win.
Who is making the statement? Because that's quite important when gauging the validity of a statement.
Stargirl. At a time when Amanda Waller was grooming her as part of a team Waller was planning on using against the JL. It would have come from Amanda Waller with the sentiment voiced through Stargirl. Engineering genius and Aquaman specialist David Hyde (Black Manta) has made similar comments. DNA professor and Atlantean physiology specialist Dr. Stephen Shin has made similar comments. Even Eclipso specifically chose Aquaman over Lobo because of how powerful Aquaman is and Lobo not useful in comparison.
And IRL Geoff Johns and Dan Abnett. As shown. ;-)
The way DC has the surface world typically not understand Aquaman's powers pretty much anyone who makes a statement like that would know what they're talking about, tbh.
I can find tons of statements that say the same about Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, etc.
How does someone else also being among the most powerful people on the planet make the statement about Aquaman untrue?
Aquaman and Wonder Woman are roughly equal, but both Superman and Martian Manhunter are consistently above them.
Again, based on what? Superman's only 2 wins on Aquaman are Truth Superman because trickery after admitting that version of Superman would have no chance and Cyborg Aquaman who had no Trident, no Life Force, and had not been in the ocean for years. Cyborg Aquaman stomped Superman with prep, one-shot Superman (gone for significant time) in Throne of Atlantis, was winning Abnett's fight at the end, defeated many Kryptonians when Rao was invading, easily impaled Rao and tossed him aside, physically forced Martian Manhunter to a lava vent and restrained him while Mera lowered them in, beat Hercules into unconsciousness, and was slaughtering many White Martians. Wonder Woman has many fights against Superman and Kryptonians too, and additional statements.
Superman and Martian Manhunter aren't consistently above them. Superman and Martian Manhunter have some high end feats that are better.
It's a huge double standard to claim scaling applies for Jean regardless of her feats and scaling doesn't apply for Aquaman despite his physical feats being greater than her telekinetic feats.
If we were only looking at physicals then Aquaman puts up a fight and Superman typically wins, but that's ignoring other abilities.
So I have seen you use this feat before, and I have several issues with it.
Other than the image you are using as an approximation, what evidence is there that Atlantis is bigger than Asia?
The busting-capability of the attack is likely due to the Scepter itself, which can cause earthquakes.
Can you prove that this feat is consistent for Aquaman and not an outlier?
And if you can prove that it is consistent, this was Aquaman catching the scepter, meaning he does not exert that level of force with his attacks.
What evidence have you provided that Atlantis isn't bigger than Asia? That image is proof. You asking for more proof isn't a rebuttal. Modern Atlantis is composed of multiple cities with outposts as far north as Iceland and as far south as Antarctica. These are all places Aquaman has gone to or referenced as part of his kingdom.
Show me one scan where the scepter is stated to only create earthquakes. An uncited wiki entry is not a reliable source. Anyone can add misinformation, disinformation, and head-cannon.
Manta killed Vostok with the scepter's power to illustrate. That's not an earthquake. The comment questioning how Aquaman could catch it in my scans makes it clear that's it's meant to cause the same damage.
The feat is consistent with other feats I've given such as easily swimming to the Earth's core and the trench feat. When a person applies the math on hurling that sub out of the ocean it's also above continent level because of the pressure and resistance involved. Matching strength with so many characters with similar or better feats makes it consistent.
Flip the script. Those feats you gave for Jean aren't consistent.
Please prove that catching the trident does not require enough force to counter the force being applied.
Country level is more believable and consistent for Aquaman, so I can buy that. However, this feat happened underwater, where Aquaman is stronger. Our battle takes place on land. I never refer to Aquaman as being "weaker" on land, but he is indeed stronger when underwater.
That's your head-canon. Everyone is faster and stronger on land than in water because of the drag and resistance. This has been DC lore for Atlanteans since PC comments. Unless you have statements to prove your claim it's only speculation on your part that contradicts basic physics.
What are Jean's country level feats?
Wonder Man and Aquaman being equal is something I agree with. But Aquaman is not consistently on Clark's level, and neither is Diana. Arthur definitely has some good feats of being on Clark's level, but they are not consistent.
I don't want to have to lowball Aquaman with feats, but I will if I have to ;)
That will lead me to posting many battles that support my claims. Claims that are supported in the writer interview and character bio information I posted. Claims that are supported in guidebooks.
Then I'll also end up posting many times Jean struggled with a lot less than your feats and scaling suggest for her power level. Jean is not any more consistent than any other character ;-)
I won't bother addressing Aquaman's durability or regeneration since they won't really matter here. I don't think Jean's TK blasts are powerful enough to really harm Aquaman...
I'm glad you can admit that. Because it's true. Jean's best case scenario with telekinetic restraint et al is to tire herself out and delay the inevitable. Aquaman would rope-a-dope Jean as her best argument there and she loses. It's more likely Aquaman defeats her before getting to that point, but understanding that if he fails for a while he still wins is important when it comes to TK.
Evidence?
Physics. Everyone is faster out of the water.
As for Mera, while weakened, she was able to contend against Ocean Master, who has never had an issue with Aquaman's speed. All 3 of them are in the same ballpark.
Mera could not touch Aquaman when he was in disguise returning to the JL during the events around Perpetua and the Totality, FTE'd her to save Serenity as Cyborg Aquaman (old and no ocean for years), and Mera doesn't have his higher end feats to match. All 3 have super speed but Aquaman has the better feats.
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Those images included a bloodlusted Superman against an old man (future) Aquaman who hasn't been in the water for years and no longer has his Trident or Life Force powers. We can see blood lusted Superman winning under these conditions and Aquaman still has a good showing in something like not dying and being durable Superman cannot gouge his eyes out. We also see that example of Arthur pulling an FTE to save Serenity faster than Mera can strike, and more of his regen.
Spinning his trident fast enough to deflect plasma blasts does not mean he was reacting to each individual shot. Not only that, but plasma is not light speed.
Those are pulse cannons. They fire 6 shots at a time simultaneously. He has to be a lot faster than the blasts to block all of them.
Blue plasma can travel up to 4.7 times the speed of light (supporting information: 1234 ). Simultaneously blocking 2 blasts at the speed of light would be FTL otherwise one blast would be missed. Claiming this as an FTL feat is lowballing my own feat because I do not believe the intent goes beyond what Wonder Woman shows.
Trident
Aquaman's trident has feats and statements for scaling.
When you bring up statements we get to Aquaman's trident being one of the most powerful artifacts on the planet. Comparable to the Helmet of Fate. And if you ask by whom it's Batman.
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Aquaman's Trident was an ancient artifact of power according to Vulko. This was the build up to the Crown of Thorns feat that took place over several issues.
Aquaman's Trident is the only thing with enough magic to hurt Corum Rath's mutated hordes. Atlantis is the birthplace of magic with vaults of artifacts. Aquaman's trident scales above all of them.
People of power in the 31st century look for items of power such as Mother boxes, power rings, and gemworld shards. Aquaman's trident was worth intergalactic conflict for it's power even in that century compared to objects like that. In comparison, there are both a Doctor Fate with the helmet and Gold Lantern with a ring in the Legion of Superheroes involved in this arc who no one cared about as much as Aquaman's trident.
Doctor Fate has the power to freeze the entire dimension in place and the trident is treated as a priority item.
It's considered an object of immense ancient power compared to other objects that exist in the 31st century.
Mordru wanted it's power. He agreed it could save a planet as one of the things it could do with the implication being much more.
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Superboy accidentally one-shot the entire Legion of Super-Heroes with it. Superboy obviously doesn't have any experience using the trident.
The trident has statements and examples to show it's level of power and that's on a pretty high scale.
I won't deny that Aquaman will use his trident to do some magic stuff, but for what is considered in character for him to do, it's basically limited to lightning and water manipulation.
There's a lot of ambient magic around Krakoa. This is no different than other times Aquaman has been in similar environments and used a lot more magic because of it. It told you this battlefield favors Aquaman more than you think. ;-)
Even though the trident was used to drain a planet, that does not mean all of the trident's attacks are planet-level in AP, and that includes its piercing ability. Aquaman has never demonstrated that level of power with his trident.
Aquaman has done higher than that. He has Poseidon's trident and that does everything his original did and more.
Poseidon's blessings included storing enough energy to change the source of power generating an alternate universe and using that power to consume that universe. There's no power source on that level to absorb and store as part of this battle but Aquaman has most definitely demonstrated that potential.
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That's Aquaman using his trident to take down the Crown of Thorns. This is why it's such a high feat:
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First of all, that's Mera's power that registers as an extraterrestrial storm event. She cannot hope to damage the Crown but the tsunamis her attacks are making threaten to destroy cities on other continents even while she's in an exhausted state. The important part is Cyborg cannot calculate an amount of force to break through, but Cyborg can calculate the energy to permanently remove a space sector from reality, implying the Crown of Thorn takes more than that amount of energy. Those are both written under the same writer.
The Crown of Thorns beyond anyone in the Justice League or on Earth or effectively "unbreakable" as per Cyborg is clearly far above planet level.
I'll also point out that Mera's feat of creating tsunamis attacking the Crown of Thorns is better than the Hulk / Namor similar feat people mention because Mera triggered that alert when they did not, was exhausted when they were not, and Mera did it herself when they split it.
Aquaman stabbed Darkseid through the chest and we can see Darkseid's cosmic energy gushing out. Hal Jordan's constructs were uselessly breaking against Darksied but Aquaman's Trident was effective.
New Gods have durability beyond planet level. Darkseid and Highfather destroyed a planet that's been described at various times to a giant planet or larger than a star and didn't kill each other. Orion survived an explosion that destroyed a star system and Darkseid is more durable. The Triumvirate of Sea Gods and Superman have black hole durability feats on the high end so the Trident casually skewering Rao is definitely not unreasonable for higher than bypassing planet level either.
Jean doesn't have notable piercing resistance to matter here. ;-)
The location of our battle isn't on Krakoa's beaches, and the amount of water nearby isn't significant enough to be a factor. If Aquaman were to summon a tidal wave, it would have to travel past the beaches and through the forests before reaching our location, which would take some time and be quite telegraphed. Jean could also literally just fly above the tidal wave's crest and be fine.
I already demonstrated Aquaman using water attacks while on a plane against high tech air craft. Most of what you just said looks like speculation but Jean flying means very little. Aquaman also moves faster than Jean flies and has ranged attacks.
Manipulating energy is pretty useless against Jean Grey since all she really uses is telepathy and telekinesis. Unless the trident can manipulate/redirect those specific kinds of energy, it isn't something of concern.
Aquaman can manipulate his own telepathy to amplify it. He does that often.
Aquaman demonstrated he can use his own telekinetic abilities when using the trident. If he can generate it there's no reason he cannot manipulate it.
Aquaman disrupted John Stewart's UV Lantern construct with his trident. GL constructs clearly demonstrate manipulation of energy beyond magic.
Aquaman casually demolished Siren's hard water construct with the trident. Siren duplicates Mera's powers and Mera following Aquaman to the Earth's core using her HK powers to protect herself is also a casual country level psionic feat. This relates to Mera having a similar feat to the one Hulk and Namor split.
There's no reason Aquaman cannot counter TK.
Furthermore, it is entirely possible that Jean Grey uses her TK to literally rip the trident from Aquaman's hands and toss it far away, thus removing his primary form of offence and significantly impairing his ability to do anything to Jean.
I would argue that it's extremely unlikely Jean can break Aquaman's grip before he reacts.
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Demonic Polaris couldn't take the Black Knight's Blade before he could react, and that Blade protected the Black Knight from Demonic Jean. The Death of Doctor Strange X-Men / Black Knight one-shot was literally demonic X-Men failing against a warrior with a magic weapon that doesn't remotely have Aquaman's powers. The Black Knight is drastically lower in physicals and reactions, has no telepathy, and doesn't have weapon feats nearly as comparable.
If he does lose his trident for some reason he still has his physicals, telepathy / life force powers, and summons options.
That could be giant monsters.
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Extra dimensional energy devouring his universe and supplanting it with new reality...
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...turned out to be a genetic disease that Aquaman could control.
Or it could be something smaller that Jean doesn't see until it's too late. Aquaman can definitely manipulate microscopic organisms. He is more likely to find a bigger summon on the island but he's not above smaller. If Aquaman is somehow without his trident and somehow restrained then blindsiding with a summons is a typical and likely counter.
Life Force / Telepathy
I touched on this a bit already but here's some more.
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reverse order
Tethys is a sentient psionic planet. Telepathy is automatically planet level because of a constant connection across their own existence. Tethys also demonstrates the ability to transform people into monsters, atomize people, generate or amplify or manipulate emotions, and create wormholes to other planets. Aquaman could resist Tethys before the Life Force powers were unlocked.
Communicating with sea life is all fine and dandy, but even if it's planetary, it is quite useless in a telepathic fight.
I gave and can give more examples outside of sea life. Planetary strength is planetary strength, however. Strength is pretty relevant.
Range is such a minor factor in gauging telepaths when it comes to their combat capabilities.
No it isn't. Range is another indication of power.
Sounds fancy, but contacting the essence of an extremely powerful god does not really mean much unless you prove how telepathically powerful this god is. And even then, how does it apply to a psychic battle?
She's a creation god so created telepathy if you want to get into arguments like that, but this is similar to your Knull example. If you think a powerful entity is impressive for Jean (who accomplished very little) then I would expect a powerful entity to be impressive for Arthur. It's also more about what he did than to whom he did it.
Jean cannot touch a dead mind. Aquaman did.
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A high tier telepath like Professor X needs Cerebro and a prerecorded copy to do what Aquaman did. High tier telepaths in the X-Men regularly rely on a tech amp to do things and Aquaman has done these on his own. It's a demonstration on who has a more powerful mind.
There's also the fact that Jean Grey has telepathic feats against Knull, Nightmare, Onslaught, Gamesmaster, and the Phoenix Force. These are godly beings with actual telepathic feats/statements to back them up ;) So if you want to get into gods, I'm all for it.
I covered Onslaught earlier. Jean was outclassed. Knull's feats afaik are having a weird mind the Moondragon had trouble reading because their thoughts weren't like real thoughts.
With Jean vs Nightmare, Marvel telepaths are specifically powerful in the Dreamscape or weak depending on belief in oneself. There's inherent context to Nightmare in that regard.
Jean Grey has plenty of planetary-level telepathy feats and she basically scales above every major telepath on Earth 616.
Not with what you've shown so far, tbh.
That's a hell of a lot of context for a feat that is essentially just telepathic communication. Once again, range is really not a significant factor, even if it's universal. It does not apply to combat, nor is it remotely consistent for Aquaman's level of telepathy.
So if range and number of people contacted aren't a significant factor, how exactly are you defining Jean's power level and those to whom you are trying to scale her against? The context was Aquaman was virtually without power so he's more powerful than that example.
As for consistency, Jean has a lot of anti-feats for her telepathy and struggles with a lot less often. Aquaman doesn't have that inconsistency because he relies on physicals and his trident a lot more often while TP is used more often for summons.
For example, Jean has many many examples of proximity making a difference and taking time. In this particular example she's spending that time in proximity to a psi-probe of Colossus. I assure you that Aquaman is a far more powerful telepath than Colossus. This isn't a low feat either. She does it this way a lot, and she has some very bad anti-feats.
I tend to ignore the really low feats for Jean too, but let's not pretend that all her feats are at the level that you are presenting. Like Aquaman, she has some decent higher feats and scaling and statements supporting her.
Which will be happening here right off the bat. Beyond the few TP communication/range feats you presented, you haven't really shown anything to suggest that Aquaman can contend against Jean's telepathy for more than a second. Nothing about his defences, nothing for psychic battles, etc. I know this is only your first post, but I was expecting a lot more considering you are up against one of Marvel's prime telepaths.
I gave more. :P
Most of Aquaman's telepathic feats are defensive instead of offensive. The ability to hide his thoughts from Martian Manhunter or Jarro is good. The ability to resist Tethys is good. The ability to easily pull a centuries old powerful telepath into a plane of pure thought is good. Creature King has a powerful telepathic mind too and Aquaman forced him out.
I find it odd that connecting to a large number of minds or at range are things that you want to dismiss but those are often how we quantify telepaths. ;-)
Battlefield
Of course I'm a cheeky bastard. I use all of the abilities for the characters I rep. Knowing those traits helps with the votes. ;-)
Although Krakoa is a living island and a sentient being, it isn't a sea creature, nor is it from the ocean itself.
Proof that sentient islands are not sea creatures living in the ocean? Krakoa is quite literally a creature in the ocean.
There is nothing to suggest that his divine gift would function the same way on an island from a different universe and ocean.
There's nothing to suggest it wouldn't either. However...
There's precedent. The Maelstrom storyline was all about the physical geography not accepting Aquaman. When Atlanna gave Aquaman her seal the land recognized him. The lands do respond to gifts like this.
Atlanna also shares Aquaman's powers and all the life on that island responded to her just like I am stating Krakoa would.
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Note that in the first image Atlanna is finding them through the plant life and then the island creatures attack. Aquaman more often uses life senses or super senses but he definitely uses creatures to swarm attack. Krakoa does have life on it that's demonstrated predatory to the people there.
You didn't provide any evidence that Aquaman could command an island-sized, sentient, hivemind being.
Aquaman's power can transform living things into extensions of his will like a hive mind.
Not just sea life. All life.
Krakoa is "controlled" by Cypher and Black Tom, two mutants and allies of Jean Grey. It is constantly monitored by the mutants, and its consciousness was also expanded via Xavier's telepathy. Jean's TP > Xavier's TP.
When Cypher created the language Xavier could only really grasp emotions and extremely basic concepts. Those characters don't control Krakoa so much as communicate more effectively. Aquaman can connect to and communicate with any living being on that same primal level Xavier was.
I'm not going to say Aquaman forces Krakoa to become an extension of his will because force like that is out of character. What I'm saying is the island will recognize Aquaman and behave like any other giant Kaiju summon, or island creatures will come to help Aquaman.
Other than some very few exceptions, non-mutants are not allowed on Krakoa, meaning the island would be hostile towards Aquaman and fight to get him off.
No, because Krakoa will recognize Aquaman as a friend.
If you're going to count the island as a character that can play a factor in this battle, we can also include the island's inhabitants as factors :)
I'm counting the island as a summon but as a character Krakoa is the only character you have placed in the battlefield. If you want to get into summons other characters then look back in my physicals post showing Aquaman's regen. He summoned powerful being from across the globe who arrived the time it took him to stand up.
Pushing that with Krakoa means Krakoa swallows mutants into a hole and feeds on them so I don't think the summoning other characters argument goes well. It just gets messy. I think I'd win with someone who summons in character compared to someone who usually doesn't. ;-)
Mountain-level statements, island-level feats, and much better via scaling. TK is a pretty hard counter to someone like Aquaman, who mainly relies on CQC.
I question the island level feats and scaling. The TK is pretty easy to counter because of Aquaman's Trident.
Conclusion
It's true that Jean uses her telepathy more often in a variety of ways that Aquaman does not and appears more skilled. That doesn't mean she automatically wins, or that she wins quickly or easily.
The Life Force is also considered one of the most powerful forces in the universe and Aquaman one of the most powerful telepathic minds on the planet. The Life Force is Aquaman's counter to Jean's telepathy. Aquaman's ability to hide his mind from Martian Manhunter or Jarro, or resist Tethys, should be enough to demonstrate he has the power to do the same with Jean.
Aquaman's trident is considered one of the most powerful artifacts on the planet and is comparable to some of the most powerful weapons in the universe. Aquaman's magic trident is a direct counter to Jean's telekinetic abilities.
Aquaman's strength, durability, and healing factor prevent Jean from winning with her telekinesis. In a worst case scenario for Aquaman that would only delay his inevitable win. In a worst case scenario for Jean he one-shots her with the trident regardless of her telekinesis.
Krakoa will recognize Aquaman and respond for a battlefield advantage. This can be in the form of summons or direct support.
Aquaman ultimately has the telepathic defense, durability, and lasting power. Jean either lose quickly or loses eventually after she becomes exhausted but she does lose.
Oh dear, someone brought the sins of @geekryan’s past to the forefront.
@koays had reason to not calm his tits back then. Lol!
Pity though. I can see easy counters to the counters made by ashrym, though they were winning so far. Geek is a very busy guy, so it canmt be helped. I wonder if this is the CaV that was mentioned previously.
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