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#1 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
VS
VS

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Rules

  • Morals are on
  • Random encounter
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation
  • Spider-man is Peter and has web shooters

Location

  • Both begin visible
  • Begin 10 feet apart
  • Fight takes place here:
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@indiecomicsftw Read through the OP and see if its good

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#2 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Looks good to me. And the rumors are correct.

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#4 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Im going to go ahead and start writing up a post, feel free to start off if ya want.

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#5 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16756 posts) - - Show Bio

Good luck to the both of you.

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#7 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: To start off, this is the same old and never ending classic battle.

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With a twist!

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Lets look at the similarities of Wolf Man and Wolverine.

  • Healing Factors
  • Claws
  • Above Peak Human Speeds
  • Durability against 30-100 toners in Blunt Damage
  • Super Senses
  • Highly Train

How about differences?

  • No Adamantium Skeleton
  • Roughly 10 tons in strength if not more
  • Super Leaping

Lets see how this old debate works with a new spin.

Astounding Wolf Man

Astounding Wolf Man is base in the Invincible universe. He is a a average man bitten by the most powerful Werewolf on the planet. In turn he becomes of the powerful Werewolf bloodline called the Elder Brood. He now leads the Werewolfs on earth as a military commando force for Cecil. He is the Astounding Wolf Man. Astounding Wolf Man power comes from his transformation into a Werewolf at night. During the Full Moon he is unfortunately out of control. Any other night he retains his senses and personality. As a Elder brood he carries the powers of Super Strength, Speed, Durability, and Healing. His costume also stores Moonlight to allow 2 hours of fighting in the day.

Now we have the background out of the way for those who never heard of him, lets get into the debate itself. Astounding Wolf Man has great feats in his 25 Comic Run and 2 minor appearances in Invincible comics. Enough feats to lead me believe he stands a excellent chance vs a morals on Spider Man. His base stats are better than Wolverine in some areas like strength.

Strength

Wolf Man is the strongest Werewolf on the planet. He is naturally stronger than any other due to being Elder Brood, and was train to match the Elder himself in stats to take over the Werewolf packs. Forming what is now the Wolf Corps.

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1) Wolf Man punches through a Block Work Concrete wall.

2) The Strength of the Elder smashes apart large Pine Trees with ease. That is a near 10 ton feet of force to accomplish that. The Elder Strength and Speed was stated to be equal to Wolf Man at the end of their training together. Something Elder wanted because he needed Wolf Man so become the superior to Elder can finally died.

3) Strength of the Elder again shown, cratering the earth, not that it affects Wolf Man since he was train by Elder to be his equal and take over the Werewolves. The crater is something that can be calculated in near 20 ton range.

4-5) These Goo prisons were design to trap even super human strength people in the average 20 ton range. Most Invincible characters are in 20 ton range by Bios. Wolf Man could not break out of it until Zecharia turn into mist form to keep from being crushed. Then Wolf Man powered out of it.

6) Wolf Man strength was enough to rip and crush steel of Constructs suit, which withstood Kid Thor's hammer with no problems!

7) Wolf Man snaps this Werewolfs neck with a open palm, showing his insane strength over beings with meta human strength and durability.

Overall averaging the feats out and comparisons I say he is comfortable 10 toner. We do know he was equaled to the Elder as the Edler needed Wolf Man to be his equal or superior to claim the Werewolf Tribes and we see Wolf Man tangling with 20-30 toners with no problem. Most of Robert Kirkman's Invincible characters are 20-30 toners in strength.

Speed

Wolf Man as the most power Werewolf is also faster than human reactions. Even standard Werewolves have stated and shown faster than human reactions, and Wolf Man is faster than the standard Werewolves.

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1) Wolf Man pounces a speeding car, then reacts fast enough to catch the driver, then shows that wolf agility.

2) Wolf Man disappears from a whole team of peak and meta humans.

3) Gray Wolf speed blitzes Wolf Man, Wolf Man easy reacts and counters.

4-5) Wolf Man holds back on Agent Hunter, a man with Low Meta Human Speed and Insane Healing Factor.

Now Spider Man is insanely fast, around Mach 3 high end from dodging a 4000 FPS bullet "shrugs", and has Spider Sense which always help. However Wolf Man is not slow at all. He can speed wise keep up with fast meta humans. His fighting style which involves slashing with steel cutting claws allows him to hit foes who are better at dodging straight forward punches. I just do not see Spider Man dodging all these attacks, and every hit landed will be a devastating one.

Durability

Wolf Man is insanely durable with the ability to feel no pain pretty much.

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1-2) The first Scan shows how sharp Zehcariah's blades are, they can cut through steel. Yet Wolf Man's muscle and bone stops the blades dead, even when they are wielded by super strength vampire.

3-4) Stab to the heart, a attack that drops Wolverine, means nothing to Wolf Man.

5) Wolf Man body tanks a full blast of steel melting heat with no injury.

6-7) Wolf Man can drop 100s of stories with no damage.

8-9) Wolf Man again falls 100s of stories on his back with no damage.

10-12) Wolf Man has a huge hole in his body, lungs, heart, guts, and yet he is taught how to keep fighting in this state. He is also told of the minor healing factor he has in wolf From as well.

13) Wolf Man tanks a punch from Invincible, who is closer to 400+ toner at this point in feats, with no probs.

14) Wolf Man tanks explosive force of missiles while smashing through the walls.

15) Silver Bullets to the head? Big Deal. Even his weakness only burns like hell.

Now Spider Man is roughly what 15 tons average? I seen some high ends, but he seems to be below Venom in strength on average and he is 25 tons IIRC. Point is Spider Man is not KOing Wolf Man with Morals On. If Reinamen and Invincible cannot KO wolf Man with a punch, I doubt Spider Man can either without many many hits adding up. Which may be negated due to Wolf Man's minor healing factor as a Werewolf, or due to Wolf Man's super fast track Healing Factor he can use if in real trouble.

IMO Wolf Man may be too much for the Spider to handle with Morals on.

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#8 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

To start off, this is the same old and never ending classic battle.

With a twist!

Lets look at the similarities of Wolf Man and Wolverine.

  • Healing Factors
  • Claws
  • Above Peak Human Speeds
  • Durability against 30-100 toners in Blunt Damage
  • Super Senses
  • Highly Train

How about differences?

  • No Adamantium Skeleton
  • Roughly 10 tons in strength if not more
  • Super Leaping

Lets see how this old debate works with a new spin.

Astounding Wolf Man

Astounding Wolf Man is base in the Invincible universe. He is a a average man bitten by the most powerful Werewolf on the planet. In turn he becomes of the powerful Werewolf bloodline called the Elder Brood. He now leads the Werewolfs on earth as a military commando force for Cecil. He is the Astounding Wolf Man. Astounding Wolf Man power comes from his transformation into a Werewolf at night. During the Full Moon he is unfortunately out of control. Any other night he retains his senses and personality. As a Elder brood he carries the powers of Super Strength, Speed, Durability, and Healing. His costume also stores Moonlight to allow 2 hours of fighting in the day.

Now we have the background out of the way for those who never heard of him, lets get into the debate itself. Astounding Wolf Man has great feats in his 25 Comic Run and 2 minor appearances in Invincible comics. Enough feats to lead me believe he stands a excellent chance vs a morals on Spider Man. His base stats are better than Wolverine in some areas like strength.

All right thanks for the outline. I am pretty sure everyone knows who spider-man is so on to the feats

Wolf Man is the strongest Werewolf on the planet. He is naturally stronger than any other due to being Elder Brood, and was train to match the Elder himself in stats to take over the Werewolf packs. Forming what is now the Wolf Corps.

1) Wolf Man punches through a Block Work Concrete wall.

All right. Spider-man has been able to punch through a wall that is a combination of steel and concrete with the slightest tap when he was a teenager.

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So Peter can replicate that feat.

2) The Strength of the Elder smashes apart large Pine Trees with ease. That is a near 10 ton feet of force to accomplish that. The Elder Strength and Speed was stated to be equal to Wolf Man at the end of their training together. Something Elder wanted because he needed Wolf Man so become the superior to Elder can finally died.

You sure there equals? The elder looks really massive compared to wolf man? All though Peter hasn't punched trees I am sure he is capable of it. He has feats like being able to kick a huge piece of machinery though a roof.

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3) Strength of the Elder again shown, cratering the earth, not that it affects Wolf Man since he was train by Elder to be his equal and take over the Werewolves. The crater is something that can be calculated in near 20 ton range.

I will take your word that it is near 20 tons all though Peter himself has been able to create craters which IMO seem larger. Also the Eldar states wolfman has but a fraction of the power he possess so are you sure they are equals?

Anyways here is Peter causing a massive crater as the result of punching Flash. We even see cars go flying in the air as a result of the impact.

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Honestly I don't know how strong this sort of crater would be but it does look to be much larger then the one that wolfman created.

4-5) These Goo prisons were design to trap even super human strength people in the average 20 ton range. Most Invincible characters are in 20 ton range by Bios. Wolf Man could not break out of it until Zecharia turn into mist form to keep from being crushed. Then Wolf Man powered out of it.

Pretty impressive. However I can match it. Below is a showing of scorpion falling from maximum velocity.

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Here is a scan of spider-man breaking this armor:

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6) Wolf Man strength was enough to rip and crush steel of Constructs suit, which withstood Kid Thor's hammer with no problems!

How strong is kid thor? Spider-man was strong enough to rip apart iron man 2020's armor

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Right to left

Now admittedly Iron man 2020 was weakened here as a result of time travel. So I am not saying Peter can hold a candle to iron man (hell I recently finished a challenge a viner where I argued Tony taking down an entire team of morals off spiders....). However Peter punched him into a building pretty much splitting a section of the building. And the armor was still in tact after that. He then proceeds to physically rip the armor apart.

7) Wolf Man snaps this Werewolfs neck with a open palm, showing his insane strength over beings with meta human strength and durability.

Well Peter was able to one shot harry osborn while holding back (IIRC Harry is a 9 tonner).

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This isn't the only time he has done it either.

Overall averaging the feats out and comparisons I say he is comfortable 10 toner. We do know he was equaled to the Elder as the Edler needed Wolf Man to be his equal or superior to claim the Werewolf Tribes and we see Wolf Man tangling with 20-30 toners with no problem. Most of Robert Kirkman's Invincible characters are 20-30 toners in strength.

I agree Wolfman is very strong. All though I would say that based on feats that Spider-man is stronger. I realize that Peter does have more feats, so before you bring it up I would like to note I did try to stick to more consistent showings. Peter does have some lower showings I wont deny that but at the same time he does have several showings which are leagues more impressive then the ones I posted.

1) Wolf Man pounces a speeding car, then reacts fast enough to catch the driver, then shows that wolf agility.

2) Wolf Man disappears from a whole team of peak and meta humans.

3) Gray Wolf speed blitzes Wolf Man, Wolf Man easy reacts and counters.

4-5) Wolf Man holds back on Agent Hunter, a man with Low Meta Human Speed and Insane Healing Factor.

1. Pretty cool all though thats not really on par with Peters agility and Peter can probably catch a car considering his speed feats.

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Some casual agility feats.
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More impressive feats
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Spider-mans fight with electro, he shows some insane agility and speed.

2. Did he use speed of did he just sort of sneak away? Were they staring at wolfman in the prior scans? I think its more of a feat of stealth which wont help much here considering spider-sense.

3. How fast is Grey wolf?

4. All though he does tag him eventually, Agent hunter was dodging and evading his attacks. Its only when he really cuts loose he gets the tag. And does this agent hunter have speed comparable to spider-man?

Now Spider Man is insanely fast, around Mach 3 high end from dodging a 4000 FPS bullet "shrugs", and has Spider Sense which always help. However Wolf Man is not slow at all. He can speed wise keep up with fast meta humans. His fighting style which involves slashing with steel cutting claws allows him to hit foes who are better at dodging straight forward punches. I just do not see Spider Man dodging all these attacks, and every hit landed will be a devastating one.

I wouldn't call spider-man dodging the mach 3 bullet a high end feat. Its a nice feat but Peter does have a few which are better then that. For example he once blitzed kingpin at the speed of sub machine gun fire, he's moved so fast daredevil stated he saw him as a blur in his radar sense (and daredevil has deflected bullets with ease), He has been able to blitz people with spider-powers, he's moved faster then Norman eye can follow (faster then super human eyes can track), he has moved faster then namor eyes can follow (who has caught missiles), Breaking deadpools gun without him noticing etc.

Point being is I would say spider-man blitzing bullet timers (and not just fodder ones) is more impressive then what he did in grim hunt.

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I think Peters speed, agility and spider-sense will make him difficult to tag here.

Wolf Man is insanely durable with the ability to feel no pain pretty much.

1-2) The first Scan shows how sharp Zehcariah's blades are, they can cut through steel. Yet Wolf Man's muscle and bone stops the blades dead, even when they are wielded by super strength vampire.

3-4) Stab to the heart, a attack that drops Wolverine, means nothing to Wolf Man.

5) Wolf Man body tanks a full blast of steel melting heat with no injury.

6-7) Wolf Man can drop 100s of stories with no damage.

8-9) Wolf Man again falls 100s of stories on his back with no damage.

10-12) Wolf Man has a huge hole in his body, lungs, heart, guts, and yet he is taught how to keep fighting in this state. He is also told of the minor healing factor he has in wolf From as well.

13) Wolf Man tanks a punch from Invincible, who is closer to 400+ toner at this point in feats, with no probs.

14) Wolf Man tanks explosive force of missiles while smashing through the walls.

15) Silver Bullets to the head? Big Deal. Even his weakness only burns like hell.

Yes durability is probably your biggest advantage...All though its something which can be worked around.

Now Spider Man is roughly what 15 tons average? I seen some high ends, but he seems to be below Venom in strength on average and he is 25 tons IIRC. Point is Spider Man is not KOing Wolf Man with Morals On. If Reinamen and Invincible cannot KO wolf Man with a punch, I doubt Spider Man can either without many many hits adding up. Which may be negated due to Wolf Man's minor healing factor as a Werewolf, or due to Wolf Man's super fast track Healing Factor he can use if in real trouble.

IMO Wolf Man may be too much for the Spider to handle with Morals on.

Well he doesn't have to KO him. Incapacitation via webbing is also a valid win. Now I wont lie the webbing is inconsistent, but with that said that is likely because it depends on the quantities of webbing. The more webbing which is wrapped around an enemy the harder it is to break out. This can explain a few showings. I would say based on consistency it can restrain wolfman. Its held people stronger then Peter himself, and since I believe Peter is stronger then wolf man it should hold.

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  • Using about 10 web cartridges he holds up the daily bugle
  • He manages to restrain Lizard (someone much stronger then Peter) who had been upgraded using an entire web cartidge
  • Restrains blob using a web cartridge
  • Restrains scorpion with a cucoon (likely less then an entire cartridge) who is stronger then Peter
  • Restrains morbius who is about equal to Peter in strength
  • Using his webbing he tosses to cars.
  • Contains a massive explosion
  • Peter states his webbing has a tensile strength of 120 pounds per square milimeter.
  • Manages to restrain some giant monsters
  • Restrains an elephant (which can weigh up to 8 tons IIRC)

All in all I think these scans should show that with enough webbing Peter can restrain wolf man. It might take a bit of webbing but he can accomplish this. I would say Peters major advantages in this fight are his strength, speed, and long range attacks. Peter can use his speed, agility, wall climbing ability to keep out of reach and tag wolf man with webbing (I do believe he has the accuracy feats to do this and his webbing also has some area of effect as well). And if Wolf man does get close a punch from Peter may knock him back. Now Wolf man does have the advantage in terms of damage out put with those claws but he has to be able to connect. I feel as if Peters speed and agility is fast enough to evade him. And judging by how he reacted when he killed agent hunter it doesn't seem like he is the type to go for killing shots? So he may take full use of his damage out put. He also has durability but I think Peter will pick up soon enough that he may not be able to punch wolf man out. And then he will try to use webbing. With his suepioer speed and strength it is totally possible for him to restrain wolf man.

All in all I think this is a close fight with Peter coming out on top.

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#10 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

You sure there equals? The elder looks really massive compared to wolf man? All though Peter hasn't punched trees I am sure he is capable of it. He has feats like being able to kick a huge piece of machinery though a roof.

I will take your word that it is near 20 tons all though Peter himself has been able to create craters which IMO seem larger. Also the Eldar states wolfman has but a fraction of the power he possess so are you sure they are equals?

Yes. Wolf Man train with the Elder for months so he can be as strong as the Elder. The Elder needed Wolf Man as a equal (opr superior) so he can die in a honorable fight. He was training Wolf Man to beat him in all areas.

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1-3) First Encounter

4-5) Final Training

As read during their months training, Wolf Man complain Elder holding back when he wasn't at the end. That is when the Elder knew Wolf Man was near equals right then.

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Also here Elder explains a fraction, that was when Wolf Man first turned. All the Werewolves said the same thing when first meeting Wolf Man. It must be past context simply because he had barely the stats of Elder in comic #3 yet was near equals by comic #12. That makes no sense to mean it present tense.

Anyways here is Peter causing a massive crater as the result of punching Flash. We even see cars go flying in the air as a result of the impact.

Which seem inconsistent with most feats. This would mean spider Man hits harder than a 60 ton D7G Bull Dozer :/

How strong is kid thor? Spider-man was strong enough to rip apart iron man 2020's armor

Not that strong, his Hammer strikes takes out 10 toners with a hit however.

I agree Wolfman is very strong. All though I would say that based on feats that Spider-man is stronger. I realize that Peter does have more feats, so before you bring it up I would like to note I did try to stick to more consistent showings. Peter does have some lower showings I wont deny that but at the same time he does have several showings which are leagues more impressive then the ones I posted.

Never would I say Wolf Man is near spider Mans 15-20 ton strength. Also I like to point out alot of spider Man strength feats are inconsistent on average like holding up the Daily Bugle. However Wolf Man should be more around 10 tons by the average.

1. Pretty cool all though thats not really on par with Peters agility and Peter can probably catch a car considering his speed feats.

2. Did he use speed of did he just sort of sneak away? Were they staring at wolfman in the prior scans? I think its more of a feat of stealth which wont help much here considering spider-sense.

3. How fast is Grey wolf?

4. All though he does tag him eventually, Agent hunter was dodging and evading his attacks. Its only when he really cuts loose he gets the tag. And does this agent hunter have speed comparable to spider-man?

1. Agreed.

2. Yeah, he snuck away by climbing a Skycraper like building faster than those people could talk or look around.

3. As fast as Wolf Man, Wolf Man is the sire of Grey Wolf and thus Grey Wolf has the same Elder Brood blood line.

4. Agent Hunter is remarked faster than a human can be and does have legit super powers to heal from any wound. Like Wolverine I assume Agent Hunter can push his body father than any Peak Human can. Also Agent Hunter has been hunting Super People for many many years as a Agent.

I wouldn't call spider-man dodging the mach 3 bullet a high end feat. Its a nice feat but Peter does have a few which are better then that. For example he once blitzed kingpin at the speed of sub machine gun fire, he's moved so fast daredevil stated he saw him as a blur in his radar sense (and daredevil has deflected bullets with ease), He has been able to blitz people with spider-powers, he's moved faster then Norman eye can follow (faster then super human eyes can track), he has moved faster then namor eyes can follow (who has caught missiles), Breaking deadpools gun without him noticing etc.

Most Bullets from Machine Guns and Hand Guns are slower than Mach 2. Fun fact for the night. Only Bullets that goo 4000 FPS are super sonic Anti Tank rounds. So its a major High End Feat.

I think Peters speed, agility and spider-sense will make him difficult to tag here.

True, I expect many of Wolf Man's attack to miss. There is advantages here however in Wolf Man being faster than Peak Humans like Electra, Wolverine, Daredevil, ect who all tag Spider Man.

Wolf Man is insanely durable with the ability to feel no pain pretty much.

Yes durability is probably your biggest advantage...All though its something which can be worked around.

Durability is good, but lets look at the real neat thing. Healing Factor.Wolf Man Healing Factor exist much like a mild one of say Ultimate Captain America in Wolf Form. However he can heal all damage instantly in transforming into human and then back to Wolf Man.

Wolf Man has a incredible Healing power with his Transformations. Any Damage he is dealt can be undone with a transformation to human and back, however he needs breathing room for this as the transformation can make him feel weaker for the first few seconds depending on blood loss, as well makes him vulnerable in human form. With some distance place he can easily heal all damage and get back into the fight within seconds.

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1) Transform in a fight to get back in top form. Only dizzy for a few seconds.

2-3) After all this damage and with a silver bullet in his arm, he heals it all with transformation.

4-6) After his first mauling from the Elder, he repairs all damage with his first transformation.

Now just to show even the worst wounds only cause him a few seconds problem, there is this major fight he had with the Vampire Zecharia, and then his daughter Chloe.

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He was only out for seconds. The only way to really beat Wolf Man is to kill him in Human Form, or Decapitate his head in Wolf Form. Something Peter is not doing either way.

Your not KOing him with punches.

Well he doesn't have to KO him. Incapacitation via webbing is also a valid win. Now I wont lie the webbing is inconsistent, but with that said that is likely because it depends on the quantities of webbing. The more webbing which is wrapped around an enemy the harder it is to break out. This can explain a few showings. I would say based on consistency it can restrain wolfman. Its held people stronger then Peter himself, and since I believe Peter is stronger then wolf man it should hold.

I was waiting for this lol. This will not work at all. I will explain why. What self respecting werewolf does not use its main weapons? Wolf Mans claws have slice through Concrete and Steel with ease. Its a weapon he uses alot against super human foes.

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1) Wolf Man slices and dices Invincible level beings called Reinmen. These Reinmen are made of the strongest metals on earth to battle Invincible and Viltrumites.

2) Nearly slices the Elders head off.

3) Cuts Hunter in half in one swipe.

4) Stabs through Sgt. Superior who has Meta Human Stats.

5) Cuts Zechariah's head off.

CLAWS!!!! Unlike Wolverine who was beaten like this....

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This cannot happen to Wolf Man as all he has to do is flex his fingers and be free of any webbing.

  • Wolverine is 1 ton maybe 2 ton high end feats. Wolf Man has added 10 ton strength to help get out.
  • Wolverine Claws are sheaved in his arms. Wolf Man has 10 Claw Fingers that cut Super Human Metals that are always out.

As long he can flex his fingers, he will always be able to cut out in seconds. Add in 10 ton strength its easier!

There is one other thing I like to show. Wolf Man skill. Wolf Man is not untalented or trained. He was trained for many months by the ninja master vampire Zechariah , and the 1000s of years old Werewolf Warrior the Elder for over 2 Months.

In his time with Zechariah alone, he manage to beat threats wholl Super Teams were having trouble with.

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Wolf Man vs Spore. Spore was handling the entire Actioneer team until Wolf Man showed up.

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Wolf Man takes out Thrill Kill and then manhandles Werewolves.

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Wolf Man takes out Eruptor with ease.

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Wolf Man vs Construct. Construct is a genius chick with Iron Man tech like suits and gear. Wolf Man dispatches her easy when she dispatch Kid Thor and Red Devil.

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Wolf Man vs Agent Hunter. Agent Hunter pumps Wolf Man full of Silver, then throw Wolf Man off with his Meta Human Speed and Healing.

This is just his training with Zechariah. After training with the Elder, Wolf Man was capable of handling the Super Human Agent Hunter in human form!

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Wolf Man vs Hunter in human form. After intense training with the Elder, Gary manages to blitz the meta human Hunter who has above peak human stats with his skills.

This is further evidence that should Gary need to transform he will not be helpless.

All in all I think these scans should show that with enough webbing Peter can restrain wolf man. It might take a bit of webbing but he can accomplish this. I would say Peters major advantages in this fight are his strength, speed, and long range attacks. Peter can use his speed, agility, wall climbing ability to keep out of reach and tag wolf man with webbing (I do believe he has the accuracy feats to do this and his webbing also has some area of effect as well). And if Wolf man does get close a punch from Peter may knock him back. Now Wolf man does have the advantage in terms of damage out put with those claws but he has to be able to connect. I feel as if Peters speed and agility is fast enough to evade him. And judging by how he reacted when he killed agent hunter it doesn't seem like he is the type to go for killing shots? So he may take full use of his damage out put. He also has durability but I think Peter will pick up soon enough that he may not be able to punch wolf man out. And then he will try to use webbing. With his suepioer speed and strength it is totally possible for him to restrain wolf man.

All in all I think this is a close fight with Peter coming out on top.

I disagree.

  • Webbing will not work like it could vs Wolverine at all for reason I explain.
  • Yes Peter is stronger, faster, and has range (Which is limited in Web Fluid), yet all that is negated by Wolf Man's Durability and Healing. You simply cannot keep him down for any length of time. You cannot incapacitate him. Peter with Morals on holds back as well meaning Wolf Man needs on good attack and cut Peter in half.
  • Hunter was actually trying to bring Wolf Man in dead or alive. He was packing Silver Bullets. On a weaker Werewolf that is death.
  • Wolf Man does not go for killing shots on purpose. However look at the evidence above. He will kill because that is what he does. He does not punch as much he slices and dices. He is a werewolf and if Spider Man gets careless, he will get slice in half (By Accident like Hunter and Elder) by Wolf Man.

  • I think I proven Morals On Peter has no way of winning which is nothing short of Killing Wolf Man in Human Form or Decapitating his Wolf form.

I also think I should bring up the range gap. Wolf Man is not limited to running up to Spider Man. He has insane travel capability. Wolf Man is actually a exceptional climber and leaper.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

1) Easily Climbs up a Tree in split seconds.

2) Leaps onto Trains.

3) Leaps onto a speeding truck.

4) Leaps over forest.

5) Climbs solid Concrete.

6) Leaps and climbs through cityscape.

All this means he can put distance for a quick transform to human and back, or chase Parker down for close combat. Not that it matters, as soon as Parker runs out of web fluid, its all close combat from there anyway.

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#11 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: Apologies for taking so long but somethings with school have come up so it might take me a while to respond.

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#12 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@indiecomicsftw: Apologies for taking so long but somethings with school have come up so it might take me a while to respond.

Cool man. I have tons of Math Homework due before Wednesday my self.

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#13 Edited by Deathstroke19 (3858 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Just throwing this out there. I been saying Wolf Man is a 10 toner simply becuase he has no official Bio that says where he is at. However after some research he is more 20+ toner I believe now after looking at calcs of various websites and comparing Spider Man and Kaine feats.

Wolf man may just be a 20 toner.

No Caption Provided

This Werewolf does the same damage if not more impressive than what Khain does to SpOck in a full body slam into concrete by illustration.

No Caption Provided

The Elder who Wolf Man was suppose to be equals with (if not his superior in the end) was making super craters with his strength on Wolf Man here. On other forums with Manga calcs, this kind of force requires more 30 tons (low balling) to crater the earth with such physical force.

This is important here. The Immortal is a 25+ toner in his official written bio.

No Caption Provided

Yet he cannot break free of his goo prison. Wolf Man however does so.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Another good example is his fight with the Reanimen.

No Caption Provided

Reanimen are 20+ toners as well. Yet Wolf man rips through them and breaks them to bits and pieces with his attacks.

No Caption Provided

A feat indeed to have the strength to tear whole chunks out of them with every swing. Yes the claws help but those claws can only cut through so many inches, it takes the strength to rip and tear the rest of that synthetic enhanced flesh and armor out in quantity like that.

So over and above I am comfortable he is more 20+ tons like most Invincible foes and Heroes are. I love to see Kirkman do a official Bio on Wolf Man soon to confirm. However his feats look more and more 20+ tons to me now and days.

Wanted to put this out there now so people who learn about Wolf Man from this will not think he is weaker than I made him out to be.

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#16 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

Yes. Wolf Man train with the Elder for months so he can be as strong as the Elder. The Elder needed Wolf Man as a equal (opr superior) so he can die in a honorable fight. He was training Wolf Man to beat him in all areas.

1-3) First Encounter

4-5) Final Training

As read during their months training, Wolf Man complain Elder holding back when he wasn't at the end. That is when the Elder knew Wolf Man was near equals right then.

Also here Elder explains a fraction, that was when Wolf Man first turned. All the Werewolves said the same thing when first meeting Wolf Man. It must be past context simply because he had barely the stats of Elder in comic #3 yet was near equals by comic #12. That makes no sense to mean it present tense.

OK

Which seem inconsistent with most feats. This would mean spider Man hits harder than a 60 ton D7G Bull Dozer :/

I think your getting too caught up on calculations and what your not taking into account is that writers probably don't do calcs when they write these feats. I doubt either remeinder or Kirkman were sitting there with a calculator saying "this crater takes X tons of force to create". There focused on writing a story.

Honestly if we did calcs for half the feats in comics punching through steel would be a class 100 feat yet characters like cap and batman do it all the time. Its not even that impressive.

The main point is that Peter created a crater larger then Wolfmans. Honestly Peter does stuff like that quite a bit. He even has feats which are more high end which I try to avoid.

Not that strong, his Hammer strikes takes out 10 toners with a hit however.

All right.

Never would I say Wolf Man is near spider Mans 15-20 ton strength. Also I like to point out alot of spider Man strength feats are inconsistent on average like holding up the Daily Bugle. However Wolf Man should be more around 10 tons by the average.

I didn't post the daily bugle feat for a reason. Because it is inconsistent. Its the same reason I avoided posting scans of thor and hulk restraining suepioer spider-man and saying they felt him move in suepioer spider-man team up #1. Or why I haven't posted him decapitating deathshead one (who is like a class 75 and has tanked hits from the thing [admittedly I have used these scans in the past but that was before I found out how durable deathshead was]). Or Peter lifting over 75 tons when he had to save his Aunt from a plane crash. Or spider-man snapping carboanridium arms with no leverage.

I have been avoiding these feats on purpose even though they would show spider-mans strength to be ridiculous. I am trying to stick to Peters average. He honestly has been pulling off ridiculous strength feats in recent years. Literally all the feats I listed above were all within the last year alone. I am trying my best to not use those feats because I know they are inconsistent.

2. Yeah, he snuck away by climbing a Skycraper like building faster than those people could talk or look around.

3. As fast as Wolf Man, Wolf Man is the sire of Grey Wolf and thus Grey Wolf has the same Elder Brood blood line.

4. Agent Hunter is remarked faster than a human can be and does have legit super powers to heal from any wound. Like Wolverine I assume Agent Hunter can push his body father than any Peak Human can. Also Agent Hunter has been hunting Super People for many many years as a Agent.

1. All right.

2. I am a bit confused here? How is reacting to a blitz from someone equal to you in speed show he can react to spider-man?

3. All right. I don't think thats enough to say agent hunter is as fast as spider-man. He is pretty fast though, all though as I said Wolfman only tagged him when he cut loose.

Most Bullets from Machine Guns and Hand Guns are slower than Mach 2. Fun fact for the night. Only Bullets that goo 4000 FPS are super sonic Anti Tank rounds. So its a major High End Feat.

Well there is a difference between blitzing at the speed of machine gun fire and dodging a bullet after its been fired but I guess that doesn't really matter in this debate.

True, I expect many of Wolf Man's attack to miss. There is advantages here however in Wolf Man being faster than Peak Humans like Electra, Wolverine, Daredevil, ect who all tag Spider Man.

I don't even remember Elektra and Peter fighting in the 616 universe. When was this? As for daredevil there is usually context. In most of the fights something is wrong with spider-man and daredevil admits he wouldn't have stood a chance. With the exception of that time he tied Peter to a pole but that was the inexperienced teenage spider-man. As for wolverine, he has his ridiculous damage soak which lets him tank hits and remain conscious for a while. Like even in the grave yard fight before wolverine hit Peter, Peter had punched him many times and the issue was she couldn't put him down. Not to mention wolverine actually does have low level super human stats and when he puts it to use he is one of the best fighters in the marvel universe.

Durability is good, but lets look at the real neat thing. Healing Factor.Wolf Man Healing Factor exist much like a mild one of say Ultimate Captain America in Wolf Form. However he can heal all damage instantly in transforming into human and then back to Wolf Man.

Wolf Man has a incredible Healing power with his Transformations. Any Damage he is dealt can be undone with a transformation to human and back, however he needs breathing room for this as the transformation can make him feel weaker for the first few seconds depending on blood loss, as well makes him vulnerable in human form. With some distance place he can easily heal all damage and get back into the fight within seconds.

1) Transform in a fight to get back in top form. Only dizzy for a few seconds.

2-3) After all this damage and with a silver bullet in his arm, he heals it all with transformation.

4-6) After his first mauling from the Elder, he repairs all damage with his first transformation.

Now just to show even the worst wounds only cause him a few seconds problem, there is this major fight he had with the Vampire Zecharia, and then his daughter Chloe.

He was only out for seconds. The only way to really beat Wolf Man is to kill him in Human Form, or Decapitate his head in Wolf Form. Something Peter is not doing either way.

Your not KOing him with punches.

Well I all ready did say I don't see Peter knocking out someone who tanks hits form invincible...Not really sure why you brought up his healing factor? It still doesn't really counter webbing.

I was waiting for this lol. This will not work at all. I will explain why. What self respecting werewolf does not use its main weapons? Wolf Mans claws have slice through Concrete and Steel with ease. Its a weapon he uses alot against super human foes.

1) Wolf Man slices and dices Invincible level beings called Reinmen. These Reinmen are made of the strongest metals on earth to battle Invincible and Viltrumites.

2) Nearly slices the Elders head off.

3) Cuts Hunter in half in one swipe.

4) Stabs through Sgt. Superior who has Meta Human Stats.

5) Cuts Zechariah's head off.

CLAWS!!!! Unlike Wolverine who was beaten like this....

Problem with this is your assuming Peter is going to let wolfman have the chance to use his claws. Peter in character tends to cocoon people. I all ready uploaded a scan of him restraining Lizard (who also has claws), I uploaded a scan of him cocooning Scorpion, he also has cocooned criminals in the prelude to spider-island.

If wolfman is cocooned he wont have the leverage to move his arms and he wont be able to use his claws.

And honestly Peters webbing is actually pretty strong...It is bullet proof, has been stated to be stronger then steel, etc. Do any of these meta humans have stabbing/slashing resistance feats? And according to the bio you uploaded Reinman are 20 tonners....There not invincible level unless wolfman only encountered the weaker invincible before he became a low level herald being? How strong was invincible when he encountered wolfman? I was assuming this was class 100 invincible, was I wrong?

This cannot happen to Wolf Man as all he has to do is flex his fingers and be free of any webbing.

  • Wolverine is 1 ton maybe 2 ton high end feats. Wolf Man has added 10 ton strength to help get out.
  • Wolverine Claws are sheaved in his arms. Wolf Man has 10 Claw Fingers that cut Super Human Metals that are always out.

As long he can flex his fingers, he will always be able to cut out in seconds. Add in 10 ton strength its easier!

As I said Lizard and scorpion are stronger and they were restrained with webbing so strength isn't an issue. Again if Wolfman cannot move his arms his claws wont do him much good.

There is one other thing I like to show. Wolf Man skill. Wolf Man is not untalented or trained. He was trained for many months by the ninja master vampire Zechariah , and the 1000s of years old Werewolf Warrior the Elder for over 2 Months.

In his time with Zechariah alone, he manage to beat threats wholl Super Teams were having trouble with.

Wolf Man vs Spore. Spore was handling the entire Actioneer team until Wolf Man showed up.

Wolf Man takes out Thrill Kill and then manhandles Werewolves.

Wolf Man takes out Eruptor with ease.

Wolf Man vs Construct. Construct is a genius chick with Iron Man tech like suits and gear. Wolf Man dispatches her easy when she dispatch Kid Thor and Red Devil.

Wolf Man vs Agent Hunter. Agent Hunter pumps Wolf Man full of Silver, then throw Wolf Man off with his Meta Human Speed and Healing.

Not really sure how these are showings of skill? The first person he fought was a blob....He seemed to be more of a tank. Not a skilled fighter and he wasn't as fast as wolfman.

Not sure what thrill kills stats are but those were wolves seemed to be inferior to wolfman....Peter himself was blitzing super villains with spider-powers and hitting pressure point and nerve centers in the process.

He dodges his projectiles and takes him out but eruptor isn't a skilled fighter is he? Same thing with his showing against construct. She was a large target and did she have speed feats? Spider-man is a totally different type of opponent.

Agent hunter is skilled but as I said all ready he was actually shooting wolfman up until the end. The fight ends with agent hunter pointing his gun at wolfman and asking him to surrender, and then the eldar coming in and taking hunter down by surprise....

This is just his training with Zechariah. After training with the Elder, Wolf Man was capable of handling the Super Human Agent Hunter in human form!

Wolf Man vs Hunter in human form. After intense training with the Elder, Gary manages to blitz the meta human Hunter who has above peak human stats with his skills.

This is further evidence that should Gary need to transform he will not be helpless.

Wofman said it himself....He surprised agent hunter. He was still taken down without much issue.

I disagree.

  • Webbing will not work like it could vs Wolverine at all for reason I explain.

He needs to be able to move his arms which he will not be able to do in a cocoon.

Yes Peter is stronger, faster, and has range (Which is limited in Web Fluid), yet all that is negated by Wolf Man's Durability and Healing. You simply cannot keep him down for any length of time. You cannot incapacitate him. Peter with Morals on holds back as well meaning Wolf Man needs on good attack and cut Peter in half.

I still don't see why he can't incapacitate wolfman. As for it being limited in web fluid he carries a lot of it.

There is no webbing on the ground where thor is standing initially but in the time he jumps up, catches a helicopter, and lands the ground is covered in webbing.
There is no webbing on the ground where thor is standing initially but in the time he jumps up, catches a helicopter, and lands the ground is covered in webbing.

I doubt Peter will run out of webbing.

  • Hunter was actually trying to bring Wolf Man in dead or alive. He was packing Silver Bullets. On a weaker Werewolf that is death.
  • Wolf Man does not go for killing shots on purpose. However look at the evidence above. He will kill because that is what he does. He does not punch as much he slices and dices. He is a werewolf and if Spider Man gets careless, he will get slice in half (By Accident like Hunter and Elder) by Wolf Man.
  1. OK
  2. Yea but that wont be his initial move. Which could buy Peter some more time.

I think I proven Morals On Peter has no way of winning which is nothing short of Killing Wolf Man in Human Form or Decapitating his Wolf form.

He doesn't need to go that far...

I also think I should bring up the range gap. Wolf Man is not limited to running up to Spider Man. He has insane travel capability. Wolf Man is actually a exceptional climber and leaper.

1) Easily Climbs up a Tree in split seconds.

2) Leaps onto Trains.

3) Leaps onto a speeding truck.

4) Leaps over forest.

5) Climbs solid Concrete.

6) Leaps and climbs through cityscape.

All this means he can put distance for a quick transform to human and back, or chase Parker down for close combat. Not that it matters, as soon as Parker runs out of web fluid, its all close combat from there anyway.

Peter has feats like crossing city blocks with in a few heart beats, out pacing dazzler while web slinging (dazzler can fly 140 MPH according to her hand book if I am not mistaken), and also being able to cross 2 miles within 5 seconds. I think he can keep his distance. I all ready went over how much webbing Peter has with him above. All though I doubt he will miss wolf man. Peter actually has good accuracy.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I can try to dig up more accuracy feats but here are some for now. Spider-man webbing up deadpool (admittedly deadpool escapes via rocket boots but he only had those do to prep), and tagging shadow land daredevil. I think this is enough to say he can tag wolfman. I got more if needed though.

Just throwing this out there. I been saying Wolf Man is a 10 toner simply becuase he has no official Bio that says where he is at. However after some research he is more 20+ toner I believe now after looking at calcs of various websites and comparing Spider Man and Kaine feats.

Wolf man may just be a 20 toner.

This Werewolf does the same damage if not more impressive than what Khain does to SpOck in a full body slam into concrete by illustration.

There wasn't even a crater when Otto punched Kaine...Thats because all the force was absorbed by Kaines body. Kaines durability is impressive. Besides I have scans above of Peter creating larger craters.

The Elder who Wolf Man was suppose to be equals with (if not his superior in the end) was making super craters with his strength on Wolf Man here. On other forums with Manga calcs, this kind of force requires more 30 tons (low balling) to crater the earth with such physical force.

This is important here. The Immortal is a 25+ toner in his official written bio.

Yet he cannot break free of his goo prison. Wolf Man however does so.

Another good example is his fight with the Reanimen.

Wolf man is using claws to cut his way out so its possible that plays a role. Wolfman may have suepioer damage output but who knows if his strength is greater.

Reanimen are 20+ toners as well. Yet Wolf man rips through them and breaks them to bits and pieces with his attacks.

Do they even have stabbing resistance feats?

A feat indeed to have the strength to tear whole chunks out of them with every swing. Yes the claws help but those claws can only cut through so many inches, it takes the strength to rip and tear the rest of that synthetic enhanced flesh and armor out in quantity like that.

So over and above I am comfortable he is more 20+ tons like most Invincible foes and Heroes are. I love to see Kirkman do a official Bio on Wolf Man soon to confirm. However his feats look more and more 20+ tons to me now and days.

Wanted to put this out there now so people who learn about Wolf Man from this will not think he is weaker than I made him out to be.

All right. Hopefully Kirkman will make the wolfman bio soon. All though to be honest I don't put much faith in hand books.

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#17 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

I think your getting too caught up on calculations and what your not taking into account is that writers probably don't do calcs when they write these feats. I doubt either remeinder or Kirkman were sitting there with a calculator saying "this crater takes X tons of force to create". There focused on writing a story.

Honestly if we did calcs for half the feats in comics punching through steel would be a class 100 feat yet characters like cap and batman do it all the time. Its not even that impressive.

The main point is that Peter created a crater larger then Wolfmans. Honestly Peter does stuff like that quite a bit. He even has feats which are more high end which I try to avoid.

LOl fair enough, and sometimes I do get caught up on calcs. I never had that habit till debating with DBZ when it was legal still. Everything was on calcs! The habit has stuck since :/ I wish Kirkman gave a rough estimate where Wolf Man is at. He did do what a 25+ toner Immortal couldn't, which seems to be the highest end.

I didn't post the daily bugle feat for a reason. Because it is inconsistent. Its the same reason I avoided posting scans of thor and hulk restraining suepioer spider-man and saying they felt him move in suepioer spider-man team up #1. Or why I haven't posted him decapitating deathshead one (who is like a class 75 and has tanked hits from the thing [admittedly I have used these scans in the past but that was before I found out how durable deathshead was]). Or Peter lifting over 75 tons when he had to save his Aunt from a plane crash. Or spider-man snapping carboanridium arms with no leverage.

I have been avoiding these feats on purpose even though they would show spider-mans strength to be ridiculous. I am trying to stick to Peters average. He honestly has been pulling off ridiculous strength feats in recent years. Literally all the feats I listed above were all within the last year alone. I am trying my best to not use those feats because I know they are inconsistent.

Your a good man then. :)

1. All right.

2. I am a bit confused here? How is reacting to a blitz from someone equal to you in speed show he can react to spider-man?

3. All right. I don't think thats enough to say agent hunter is as fast as spider-man. He is pretty fast though, all though as I said Wolfman only tagged him when he cut loose.

2) I mean is Gray Wolf is superior to speed of normal Werewolves, but by then Wolf Man was still much superior. Sort been shown in the comics in a order of speed. Peak Humans < Werewolves < Vampires/Gray Wolf < Wolf Man/Elder

3) Oh no, I would not suggest Agent Hunter is Spidey fast. Merely Captain America, Deadpool, Wolverine fast.

Well there is a difference between blitzing at the speed of machine gun fire and dodging a bullet after its been fired but I guess that doesn't really matter in this debate.

No, I was corecting you for that low ball you put on Spider Man speed feat lol. Most bullets travel 1100 FPS and Rifles around 2200 FPS. 4000 FPS is disgustingly high. Only thing higher is Depleted Uranium Bullets!

I don't even remember Elektra and Peter fighting in the 616 universe. When was this? As for daredevil there is usually context. In most of the fights something is wrong with spider-man and daredevil admits he wouldn't have stood a chance. With the exception of that time he tied Peter to a pole but that was the inexperienced teenage spider-man. As for wolverine, he has his ridiculous damage soak which lets him tank hits and remain conscious for a while. Like even in the grave yard fight before wolverine hit Peter, Peter had punched him many times and the issue was she couldn't put him down. Not to mention wolverine actually does have low level super human stats and when he puts it to use he is one of the best fighters in the marvel universe.

That was my bad. I mistaken Ultimate Spider Man (Fought Ultimate Electra 3 times) battles. Sry.

Wolverine vs Spider man like I said is very much like Wolf Man vs Peter here. Only Wolf Man is bigger, stronger, and has the ability to full heal.

Well I all ready did say I don't see Peter knocking out someone who tanks hits form invincible...Not really sure why you brought up his healing factor? It still doesn't really counter webbing.

Any damage Wolf man may sustain from Pete can be healed. He only has a Ultimate Captain America Mild Healing factor to push past fatal wounds and keep fighting in Wolf Form. So any over time damage is negated with a quick heal. If it came to that.

Problem with this is your assuming Peter is going to let wolfman have the chance to use his claws. Peter in character tends to cocoon people. I all ready uploaded a scan of him restraining Lizard (who also has claws), I uploaded a scan of him cocooning Scorpion, he also has cocooned criminals in the prelude to spider-island.

The Lizard Scan is a bad example. Lizard was Webs to the street. Wolf Man will easy rip the street up with the webbing.

If wolfman is cocooned he wont have the leverage to move his arms and he wont be able to use his claws.

He can merely flex his fingers. The problem with webbing is it is elastic and not solid like say steel. Ass long he can spirit fingers his hands, he can cut out of it.

Loading Video...

The only reason Wolverine can be beaten by Webs is becuase his Calws are fixed to his arm, he cannot move his claws. I pointed this out earlier in a scan. Wolf man also has teeth that can chomp through the webbing with his Clawed Fingers and Clawed Feet.

And honestly Peters webbing is actually pretty strong...It is bullet proof, has been stated to be stronger then steel, etc. Do any of these meta humans have stabbing/slashing resistance feats? And according to the bio you uploaded Reinman are 20 tonners....There not invincible level unless wolfman only encountered the weaker invincible before he became a low level herald being? How strong was invincible when he encountered wolfman? I was assuming this was class 100 invincible, was I wrong?

1) Correct, the Reanimen are around 20 toners Optimal, and those were the weaker made from garbage supplies Reanimen. The Government made Reanimen had a perfected version as it was claim and suppose to be made with higher quality. Either way he is slicing through high grade steel with his claws and strength. His claws also allow him to cut concrete as well.

2) Invincible was Benching 400 tons when he wore the Black and Blue suit.

As I said Lizard and scorpion are stronger and they were restrained with webbing so strength isn't an issue. Again if Wolfman cannot move his arms his claws wont do him much good.

Again there is no way to keep him from Spirit Fingering his way to victory. Add in the Teeth and Clawed feet, he should make it out. Or like the KOed Lizard who was webbed down on a street, Wolf man rips the street out with the webs.

Spirit Fingering to victory. Patenting that phrase :)

Not really sure how these are showings of skill? The first person he fought was a blob....He seemed to be more of a tank. Not a skilled fighter and he wasn't as fast as wolfman.

Not sure what thrill kills stats are but those were wolves seemed to be inferior to wolfman....Peter himself was blitzing super villains with spider-powers and hitting pressure point and nerve centers in the process.

He dodges his projectiles and takes him out but eruptor isn't a skilled fighter is he? Same thing with his showing against construct. She was a large target and did she have speed feats? Spider-man is a totally different type of opponent.

Agent hunter is skilled but as I said all ready he was actually shooting wolfman up until the end. The fight ends with agent hunter pointing his gun at wolfman and asking him to surrender, and then the eldar coming in and taking hunter down by surprise....

The blob is not so much a showing of skill vs skill now I look back, its a showing of his first big battle where the entire Actioneer team was being beaten by Spore and Wolf Man single handily turned the tide with his skill and power.

Yes, the Werewolves are inferior because Wolf Man is of Elder Brood.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Wolf Man battles the Werewolves again, he holds back but still manages to kill one of them with a simple move. the damage he takes is a great example of his natural durability.

As seen here, these Werewolves are not push overs. They have immense strength, notice Wolf Man slammed and the damage from the force of it, as well the damage they cause Wolf man when Wolf Man held back.

Again I was just posting early wolf man in the sense he was a man with NO TRAINING to a Wolf man with enough skill to figure out how to beat Construct, easily end Eruptor with nor further casualties, ect ..... Put a average person in the same shows with no training and they will make things worse. Like Man of Steel fighting in a city where thousands were killed and maimed, Brilliant! Wolf Man has shown training from Zechariah to beat these foes with ease and no further harm to a populace.

The fight proves when Wolf Man is not holding back, he straight murder stomp Agent Hunter.

Wofman said it himself....He surprised agent hunter. He was still taken down without much issue.

Wolf Man is still below Peak Human in human form ;) Incredible feat for a below Peak Human.

He needs to be able to move his arms which he will not be able to do in a cocoon.

I explained this.

I still don't see why he can't incapacitate wolfman. As for it being limited in web fluid he carries a lot of it.

I doubt Peter will run out of webbing.

Granted. Pete may not run out of webbing, but it will not be that much of a help either.

OK

Yea but that wont be his initial move. Which could buy Peter some more time.

Yes. it will buy Pete time at first.

Peter has feats like crossing city blocks with in a few heart beats, out pacing dazzler while web slinging (dazzler can fly 140 MPH according to her hand book if I am not mistaken), and also being able to cross 2 miles within 5 seconds. I think he can keep his distance. I all ready went over how much webbing Peter has with him above. All though I doubt he will miss wolf man. Peter actually has good accuracy.

I can try to dig up more accuracy feats but here are some for now. Spider-man webbing up deadpool (admittedly deadpool escapes via rocket boots but he only had those do to prep), and tagging shadow land daredevil. I think this is enough to say he can tag wolfman. I got more if needed though.

OK

All right. Hopefully Kirkman will make the wolfman bio soon. All though to be honest I don't put much faith in hand books.

True, but it at the least gives us a idea what he meant Wolf Man to be around for debate sake.

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#18 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: Bumping this as a reminder to myself. I will get to this later.

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#20 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

LOl fair enough, and sometimes I do get caught up on calcs. I never had that habit till debating with DBZ when it was legal still. Everything was on calcs! The habit has stuck since :/ I wish Kirkman gave a rough estimate where Wolf Man is at. He did do what a 25+ toner Immortal couldn't, which seems to be the highest end.

Yea I think calcs are probably the reason DBZ threads are banned....Too much stress in those threads which makes everyone angry.

2) I mean is Gray Wolf is superior to speed of normal Werewolves, but by then Wolf Man was still much superior. Sort been shown in the comics in a order of speed. Peak Humans < Werewolves < Vampires/Gray Wolf < Wolf Man/Elder

3) Oh no, I would not suggest Agent Hunter is Spidey fast. Merely Captain America, Deadpool, Wolverine fast.

  • All right. All though he is still slower then wolfman. Spider-man should be considerably faster then the grey wolf.
  • Fair enough. All though I do have a scan of Peter blitzing deadpool

That was my bad. I mistaken Ultimate Spider Man (Fought Ultimate Electra 3 times) battles. Sry.

Wolverine vs Spider man like I said is very much like Wolf Man vs Peter here. Only Wolf Man is bigger, stronger, and has the ability to full heal.

No problem.

All though wolfman and wolverine are similar they are both still different. Your right about Wolfman being stronger and bigger, however wolverine is more skilled. And concerning wolfmans ability to fully heal, he has to turn human and then turn wolfman to do that right? That is risky. If he reverts to human for even a second Peter can punch him out. His human form doesn't seem to be as durable as his wolfman form based on the agent hunter scans. His stats also decrease meaning it becomes easy for Peter to blitz him. IMO Wolfman turning human in the middle of a fight is a bad move.

Any damage Wolf man may sustain from Pete can be healed. He only has a Ultimate Captain America Mild Healing factor to push past fatal wounds and keep fighting in Wolf Form. So any over time damage is negated with a quick heal. If it came to that.

Pretty much what I said above. I think Wolfman is better staying in his wolf form when fighitng someone who is as fast and strong as Peter.

The Lizard Scan is a bad example. Lizard was Webs to the street. Wolf Man will easy rip the street up with the webbing.

If wolfman is cocooned he wont have the leverage to move his arms and he wont be able to use his claws.

He can merely flex his fingers. The problem with webbing is it is elastic and not solid like say steel. Ass long he can spirit fingers his hands, he can cut out of it.

The only reason Wolverine can be beaten by Webs is becuase his Calws are fixed to his arm, he cannot move his claws. I pointed this out earlier in a scan. Wolf man also has teeth that can chomp through the webbing with his Clawed Fingers and Clawed Feet.

Fair point about Lizard.

Well even if he can cut his fingers free what good would that do? Also I don't think cutting webbing is that simple. we are talking about webbing that is stronger then steel. It has 120 tensile strength per square milameter. I don't think wolfmans claws will cut the webbing just by wiggling his fingers. It would require a good deal of strength to cut the webbing.

1) Correct, the Reanimen are around 20 toners Optimal, and those were the weaker made from garbage supplies Reanimen. The Government made Reanimen had a perfected version as it was claim and suppose to be made with higher quality. Either way he is slicing through high grade steel with his claws and strength. His claws also allow him to cut concrete as well.

2) Invincible was Benching 400 tons when he wore the Black and Blue suit.

As I said Lizard and scorpion are stronger and they were restrained with webbing so strength isn't an issue. Again if Wolfman cannot move his arms his claws wont do him much good.

Again there is no way to keep him from Spirit Fingering his way to victory. Add in the Teeth and Clawed feet, he should make it out. Or like the KOed Lizard who was webbed down on a street, Wolf man rips the street out with the webs.

Spirit Fingering to victory. Patenting that phrase :)

  1. Webbing has been stated to be more then 2.6 times stronger then steel. Wolfman is going to need stronger cutting feats then cutting through steel to cut the webbing. Especially if he intends to cut it just by wiggling his fingers.
  2. All right
  3. Wolfman needs the necessary force to cut webbing. He may have the force required to do it under normal conditions but just by wiggling his fingers? The amount of force he can generate will be greatly reduced.

The blob is not so much a showing of skill vs skill now I look back, its a showing of his first big battle where the entire Actioneer team was being beaten by Spore and Wolf Man single handily turned the tide with his skill and power.

Its pretty impressive. All though with that said its a different type of fight then spider-man is. Peter has a different fighting style, different attacks, and different ways of doing things. It would be like if I brought up Peter beating sand man or rhino as evidence he beats wolfman. It wouldn't matter because Wolfman is so vastly different from those two.

Yes, the Werewolves are inferior because Wolf Man is of Elder Brood.

Wolf Man battles the Werewolves again, he holds back but still manages to kill one of them with a simple move. the damage he takes is a great example of his natural durability.

As seen here, these Werewolves are not push overs. They have immense strength, notice Wolf Man slammed and the damage from the force of it, as well the damage they cause Wolf man when Wolf Man held back.

Its pretty cool. Al though I do have scans of Peter owning spider-island villains without his spider-sense. They would have additional powers and spider-powers. And I would say Peter can hit harder then those wolves.

Also in the scans wolfman mentions that once he changes from human form to wolf form and back he is weak and disorientated. And the eldar states he wont be at full strength for a minute or two. This further supports the notion that a full heal in the middle of a fight with spider-man is a bad move.

Again I was just posting early wolf man in the sense he was a man with NO TRAINING to a Wolf man with enough skill to figure out how to beat Construct, easily end Eruptor with nor further casualties, ect ..... Put a average person in the same shows with no training and they will make things worse. Like Man of Steel fighting in a city where thousands were killed and maimed, Brilliant! Wolf Man has shown training from Zechariah to beat these foes with ease and no further harm to a populace.

The fight proves when Wolf Man is not holding back, he straight murder stomp Agent Hunter.

Well then I suppose its worth noting the only feat I posted was of post way of the spider would be the one from spider-island. And Peter didn't have spider-sense there. Afterwards his way of the spider wasn't enough to beat tarantula but when he got his spider-sense back in addition to his way of the spider he curbstomped tarantula. So Wolfman isn't the only one to go through a huge training upgrade.

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Right to left

When he got his spider-sense back he also explains that it actually works in harmony with everything shang chi taught him. So his spider-sense actually guides his way of the spider.

Perhaps. But Peter is also suepioer to agent hunter considerably.

Wolf Man is still below Peak Human in human form ;) Incredible feat for a below Peak Human.

Which is why he is best to stay in his wolf form.

Yes. it will buy Pete time at first.

All right.

True, but it at the least gives us a idea what he meant Wolf Man to be around for debate sake.

This is true.

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#21 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

All right. All though he is still slower then wolfman. Spider-man should be considerably faster then the grey wolf.

Fair enough. All though I do have a scan of Peter blitzing deadpool

True, the point is Wolf Man is faster than Peak Human to a large degree.

All though wolfman and wolverine are similar they are both still different. Your right about Wolfman being stronger and bigger, however wolverine is more skilled. And concerning wolfmans ability to fully heal, he has to turn human and then turn wolfman to do that right? That is risky. If he reverts to human for even a second Peter can punch him out. His human form doesn't seem to be as durable as his wolfman form based on the agent hunter scans. His stats also decrease meaning it becomes easy for Peter to blitz him. IMO Wolfman turning human in the middle of a fight is a bad move.

Wolf Man is incredible skilled and been trained by the very skilled Zecariah as well the Elder. Lets look at Zechariah.

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These are scans of Zecharaih. It is important to know just how good of a enemy he is.1-2) Zechariah has Amazing Healing Ability. 3) Super Strength. 4) Is a highly train fighter. 5) Can dodge the Computer targeting of Mecha Maid with no probs.

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Wolf Man vs Zechariah. Wolf Man skill and stats over power the master Vampire.

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Wolf Man's rematch with a improved and prepped Zechariah. Zechariah could barely escape.

Heck we can see zechariah's skill with his 2 months of training a 16 year girl who dropped out of school and no fighting background.

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Right after his battle with Zechariah he fights his daughter Chloe who has been training with Zechariah, as well drinking his blood for added stat boost, takes on Wolf Man who totally holds back. He seems to pass out to repair his damage, only to snap back in wolf form after a few seconds so he and Chloe can handle the Invincible Universe bad guys with little trouble.

Zechariah skill and stats are present as a major threat, yet Wolf Man manhandles him after training with the Elder and combining it with Zechariah's months of training as well.

Any damage Wolf man may sustain from Pete can be healed. He only has a Ultimate Captain America Mild Healing factor to push past fatal wounds and keep fighting in Wolf Form. So any over time damage is negated with a quick heal. If it came to that.

Pretty much what I said above. I think Wolf Man is better staying in his wolf form when fighting someone who is as fast and strong as Peter.

Yes, the point is should Spider Man punch his guts out, not really a in character issue, he can jump to a hiding spot and transform back and forth in a second. I want people to be aware how easy it would be for Wolf Man to fully recover any and all sustaining over time damage.

Fair point about Lizard.

Well even if he can cut his fingers free what good would that do? Also I don't think cutting webbing is that simple. we are talking about webbing that is stronger then steel. It has 120 tensile strength per square milameter. I don't think wolfmans claws will cut the webbing just by wiggling his fingers. It would require a good deal of strength to cut the webbing.

He has good deal strength in the seemingly 20 ton range. Add in the fact he has Claws Hand, Feet, and Razor Teeth. Webbing is also elastic in nature and not solid which allows for one to move around a bit for sawing, cutting, and clawing out. This is all major factors of cutting out.

Webbing has been stated to be more then 2.6 times stronger then steel. Wolfman is going to need stronger cutting feats then cutting through steel to cut the webbing. Especially if he intends to cut it just by wiggling his fingers.

Wolfman needs the necessary force to cut webbing. He may have the force required to do it under normal conditions but just by wiggling his fingers? The amount of force he can generate will be greatly reduced.

Disagree, I seen his webs cut out by knifes. It may have Steel strength in pulling apart or stretching, but prove to me something sharper and stronger than knifes with 20 tons of force behind is not cutting through it. Then I will conceed that point.

Again Webbing is stretchable, it stretches all the time. It is elastic. It is not a solid steel bar.

Its pretty impressive. All though with that said its a different type of fight then spider-man is. Peter has a different fighting style, different attacks, and different ways of doing things. It would be like if I brought up Peter beating sand man or rhino as evidence he beats wolfman. It wouldn't matter because Wolfman is so vastly different from those two.

True, however Zechariah is a skilled and inhuman in stats, and wolf man owns him. As well Elder who also has vast Super Human Stats, Skill, and Durability.

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Wolf Man's final big fight with Zechariah and then the brutal battle with the Elder as top alpha dog of the wolf packs. Wolf Man was holding back here too.

Wolf Man also took on a entire army of Super Human Werewolves who have easy 5+ ton feats and stats.

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Wolf Man vs a army of Werewolves. All the other Super Humans are getting decimated, but Wolf Man is pwning the whole time.

This is a good feat of Wolf Man not fighting back but managing to ignore the damage and attacks of the whole Actioneer team.

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Wolf Man is ambushed by the Actioneers. He holds back trying to talk it out while they do their best to kill him. Great Durability feat as Wolf Man not only survives what they throw at him, but he carries on afterword. He even counters them every now and then to talk sense in them. After the battle he was more than fine.

The guy is a tank and pretty skilled.

Also in the scans wolfman mentions that once he changes from human form to wolf form and back he is weak and disorientated. And the eldar states he wont be at full strength for a minute or two. This further supports the notion that a full heal in the middle of a fight with spider-man is a bad move.

That was not the Elder, that was Zechariah the Vampire. Also that was before the Elders Training. Just to prove the point, after the battle with Zechariah and the damage from his daughter Chloe (Scans above) Wolf Man gets heart stabbed and has to transform.

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He drops, transforms, and then transforms right back, not dizzy, not tired, but %100 and ready to wreck these villains. He had improved alot with Elder's training on his Werewolf Powers.

Well then I suppose its worth noting the only feat I posted was of post way of the spider would be the one from spider-island. And Peter didn't have spider-sense there. Afterwards his way of the spider wasn't enough to beat tarantula but when he got his spider-sense back in addition to his way of the spider he curbstomped tarantula. So Wolfman isn't the only one to go through a huge training upgrade.

When he got his spider-sense back he also explains that it actually works in harmony with everything shang chi taught him. So his spider-sense actually guides his way of the spider.

Peter is more than likely the more skilled one, but all that skill does not keep lesser skilled foes from tagging him consistently in many comics. Nor does it allow Peter to by pass the insane durability advantage of Wolf Man. All it will do is allow him to live longer. All i am showing is Wolf Man skill is more than enough to land blows, blows that will take a tole with every hit.

Wolf man is not stupid either, he thinks outside the box and has brought down way more powerful foes than Peter by thinking the battle out. All plays with his skill.

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Wolf Man vs the Old God Gorgg. Wolf Man is given Gauntlets to keep his hands from breaking, and a Jet Pack from Mecha Maid to battle Gorgg. This is a foe who is way out of Wolf Man's league, yet he uses that skill and quick thinking to overcome him.

Wolf Man is not a stupid brute of a fighter and like Peter has taken entire teams of Super Humans while holding back as well beings way out of the street level tier.

Which is why he is best to stay in his wolf form.

The point was a skill showing how a below peak Human with the training from Zechariah and Elder allowed him to do as well he did against Agent Hunter.

After your reply I am ready for votes. :) This was a fun paced match Jash.

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#22 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Before we go to voting do you have any info how strong kinetic is?

True, the point is Wolf Man is faster than Peak Human to a large degree.

I agree but considering peter is faster then grey wolf it doesn't really prove wolfman will tag him.

Wolf Man is incredible skilled and been trained by the very skilled Zecariah as well the Elder. Lets look at Zechariah.

These are scans of Zecharaih. It is important to know just how good of a enemy he is.1-2) Zechariah has Amazing Healing Ability. 3) Super Strength. 4) Is a highly train fighter. 5) Can dodge the Computer targeting of Mecha Maid with no probs.

Wolf Man vs Zechariah. Wolf Man skill and stats over power the master Vampire.

Wolf Man's rematch with a improved and prepped Zechariah. Zechariah could barely escape.

Heck we can see zechariah's skill with his 2 months of training a 16 year girl who dropped out of school and no fighting background.

Right after his battle with Zechariah he fights his daughter Chloe who has been training with Zechariah, as well drinking his blood for added stat boost, takes on Wolf Man who totally holds back. He seems to pass out to repair his damage, only to snap back in wolf form after a few seconds so he and Chloe can handle the Invincible Universe bad guys with little trouble.

Zechariah skill and stats are present as a major threat, yet Wolf Man manhandles him after training with the Elder and combining it with Zechariah's months of training as well.

I am not trying to say wolfman lacks skill he just isn't as good as wolverine. Wolverine has spent centuries studying every fighting style on the planet and has even studied alien fighting styles (hence how he knew kid gladiators pressure point). He is arguablely the best fighter in the marvel universe for a reason. When it comes to a comparison of wolverines and wolfmans skill wolverine is far more skilled. Not to say thats a bad thing but its Logans skill and pain tolerance which are a problem. Wolfman is very similar but he is also very different kind of fight at the same time. They both have pain tolerance but wolfman has to rely more on his physicals to keep up with Peter where as Logan relies more on skill and because there methods of keeping up are different we shouldn't be comparing this fight to how wolverine vs spider-man would go down.

And I have all ready commented on Peters skill all ready but if I may throw out some more feats he stomped spider-woman with ease (who admittedly may have been holding back a bit but even so) using his way of the spider and this is how post way of the spider vs morbius went down:

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Right to left.

Keep in mind when Peter first encountered Morbius, Morbius was giving trouble to lizard and spider-man at the same time. Yet now Peter is beating him pretty easily (he isn't even fully concentrated on fighting morbius, he is also talking with madame web). So after his training with shang chi Peter skills improved as well.

Yes, the point is should Spider Man punch his guts out, not really a in character issue, he can jump to a hiding spot and transform back and forth in a second. I want people to be aware how easy it would be for Wolf Man to fully recover any and all sustaining over time damage.

Well in this battle he isn't really going to be able to run from Peter. if he starts trying to run Peter can put a spider-tracer, all though even without tracers Peter has used his spider-sense for tracking before. And we all ready established Peter is faster then wolfman. So he really wont get the chance.

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Spider-man using spider-sense to track kraven during kravens last hunt

He has good deal strength in the seemingly 20 ton range. Add in the fact he has Claws Hand, Feet, and Razor Teeth. Webbing is also elastic in nature and not solid which allows for one to move around a bit for sawing, cutting, and clawing out. This is all major factors of cutting out.

It has never been cut by a 20 tonner before all though it does have stabbing resistance. Here deadpools machine gun bullets don't seem to do anything to webbing.

No Caption Provided

All though even then I don't really see whats stopping spider-man from tying the webbing around his wrists. Or giving him a bear hug while wolfman is cutting free. We agree spider-man is stronger based on feats, so I am sure if worst comes to worst he can physically restrain wolfman if needed.

All though I do see Peter webbing wolfman into a position where he wont even be able to move his fingers like so:

No Caption Provided

If he cannot move his fingers he can't cut free. Or if he is webbed in a way where it doesn't matter if his fingers are free the same applies.

Again Webbing is stretchable, it stretches all the time. It is elastic. It is not a solid steel bar.

It takes a lot of force to stretch. The average human cannot stretch it.

True, however Zechariah is a skilled and inhuman in stats, and wolf man owns him. As well Elder who also has vast Super Human Stats, Skill, and Durability.

Wolf Man's final big fight with Zechariah and then the brutal battle with the Elder as top alpha dog of the wolf packs. Wolf Man was holding back here too.

Wolf Man also took on a entire army of Super Human Werewolves who have easy 5+ ton feats and stats.

Wolf Man vs a army of Werewolves. All the other Super Humans are getting decimated, but Wolf Man is pwning the whole time.

This is a good feat of Wolf Man not fighting back but managing to ignore the damage and attacks of the whole Actioneer team.

Wolf Man is ambushed by the Actioneers. He holds back trying to talk it out while they do their best to kill him. Great Durability feat as Wolf Man not only survives what they throw at him, but he carries on afterword. He even counters them every now and then to talk sense in them. After the battle he was more than fine.

The guy is a tank and pretty skilled.

  1. It doesn't look like wolfman was owning the vampire. The Eldar did. Now before you say that Woflman beat the Eldar it sort of looks like there was some plot or maybe the fact the Eldar wanted to die played a role in the fight? I mean Wolfman was being choked out and the Eldar is basically just standing there choking him....Why didn't the Eldar just slash him and end it like wolfman did to him?
  2. The wolves were being harmed by bullets. 20 ton claw strikes were doing severe damage. And considering that wolfman is so much faster then these werewolves (being an eldar brood) all he has to do is one shot them all and be able to hit them. Its just a matter of hitting them first. All though as I said Peter based on feats is faster then wolfman. Especially since wolfmans stabbing resistance is so much higher he can also afford to get damaged unlike the wolves.
  3. How strong are the actionners? Particularly Kinetic? Because they were hurting him....Unless there as strong as invincible this showing may work against you and may suggest Peter can punch wolfman out? I don't know anything about them so can you fill me in?

That was not the Elder, that was Zechariah the Vampire. Also that was before the Elders Training. Just to prove the point, after the battle with Zechariah and the damage from his daughter Chloe (Scans above) Wolf Man gets heart stabbed and has to transform.

He drops, transforms, and then transforms right back, not dizzy, not tired, but %100 and ready to wreck these villains. He had improved alot with Elder's training on his Werewolf Powers.

All right. All though he couldn't really go to wolf form right away due to the blood lost it seems.

Peter is more than likely the more skilled one, but all that skill does not keep lesser skilled foes from tagging him consistently in many comics. Nor does it allow Peter to by pass the insane durability advantage of Wolf Man. All it will do is allow him to live longer. All i am showing is Wolf Man skill is more than enough to land blows, blows that will take a tole with every hit.

Yea but between his spider-sense, suepioer speed, Peter jumping from wall to wall, and better skill its going to be tough. Especially since his punches can give him distance. I still say Peter webs him before getting tagged.

Wolf man is not stupid either, he thinks outside the box and has brought down way more powerful foes than Peter by thinking the battle out. All plays with his skill.

Wolf Man vs the Old God Gorgg. Wolf Man is given Gauntlets to keep his hands from breaking, and a Jet Pack from Mecha Maid to battle Gorgg. This is a foe who is way out of Wolf Man's league, yet he uses that skill and quick thinking to overcome him.

Wolf Man is not a stupid brute of a fighter and like Peter has taken entire teams of Super Humans while holding back as well beings way out of the street level tier.

I don't believe I said he was a stupid brute. All though Peter himself has been able to beat the likes of sandman, electro, hydroman, etc. using the environment. During AVX he made magik and colossous turn on each other with his quick thinking (they were holding back which is why he didn't die instantly).. Point being is Peter is pretty smart when it comes to tactics.

The point was a skill showing how a below peak Human with the training from Zechariah and Elder allowed him to do as well he did against Agent Hunter.

Well he mostly just surprised him as I said.

Good match cadence. I learned a lot about wolfman.

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#24 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: The black girl on the acitioneers with the yellow glow? Her and and the blue guy with sticks seem to be able to damage wolfman? Do you happen to know how strong they are?

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#26 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: They are same strength as Zechariah. Kinetic more so I assume. They were both made Vampires and Kinetic before her Vampire strength was busting Concrete walls with ease.

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#27 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: All right thank you. We can go to voting now.

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#28 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: All right thank you. We can go to voting now.

Sweet, good match mate. Glad I got to test Wolf Man out on Peter.

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#29 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Oh this one, I thought you had all ready called out people to vote a while ago LOL

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#31 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cadencev2: Oh this one, I thought you had all ready called out people to vote a while ago LOL

Nope. But now we can finish it.

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#32 Posted by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

O man this is a tough call.Great debates by both parties here.

If i cant call it a draw will have to flick a coin tomorrow lol

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#34 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

O man this is a tough call.Great debates by both parties here.

If i cant call it a draw will have to flick a coin tomorrow lol

Thanks mate.

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#35 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 & @cadencev2 guys if u want to PM each other & pick heads or tails will post my vote later :)

To be honest just read the debates again & imo this is an even encounter.

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#36 Edited by Cjdavis103 (10010 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

takes this by a very slim majority

nice debate!

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#37 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime: Screw what he wants, I like some head, I mean I will take heads.

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#38 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos_prime: Screw what he wants, I like some head, I mean I will take heads.

lol was hoping u wouldnt tell me that way my vote when posted ie-Tails wins would have been impartial :)

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#39 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by Chaos Prime (11585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by IamTHICCaf (58 posts) - - Show Bio