CaV: Jace Beleren (Banthabot) VS Eragon (The_Red_Viper) [VOTING!!!!!!!]

@joewell911: @banthabot:

Moving on from rabbits. This was a fantastic debate, both sides argued their side very well. Before I give general commentary I must acknowledge that like red viper I love Eragon and have only this debate's worth of knowledge on Jace, thus while I while try to be objective as possible I will be biased towards Eragon.

The way I see it is this debate structured itself principally around the following: (in order of importance)

• telepathy
• magic especially defense vs penetrating power
• melee

Firstly the melee side:

Both sides agreed that Eragon was the superior fighter. However while red_viper argued that Eragon curb stomps Jace here, banthabot successfully argued that Jace while be able to hold off Eragon (since Eragon well have to 'block' multiple strikes - most illusory). That said it is clear that melee is pretty much a last option scenario, but banthabot proved that it will not be an immediate decider if it came to melee.

The primary offense battle is the ancient language vs Jace's shields & illusions/phantoms vs Eragon's wards. Here I think Eragon wins. While banthabot did show that if the fight went on for a significant amount of time, Jace would gain the advantage due to Eragon using up his energy, red viper argued that Eragon has so much initial energy that this is basically irrelevant - unless the two are perfectly matched. Thus to summarize Jace's attack while not get the better of eragon unless he holds Eragon off for a lonnng period of time. The issue comes down to whether Eragon can penetrate Jace's shielding. I believe he can - primarily through the instant effect spells that Jace will not initially have up - although I believe that the spells still will penetrate since each spell/effect must have its own ward specifically designed to counter it. Thus the magic battle goes to Eragon.

When it comes down to telepathy I agree that Eragon wins here - especially as he has so much more feats. Secondly banthabot the telepathy in Eragon is separated from magic - although all magicians will be trained in telepathy. This distinction - which I don't think exists in MtG - did invalidate a lot of your counters as viper pointed out. In addition Jace's major feat in defense red viper did provide another potential explanation weaking the feat.

Thus I believe that Eragon and red viper won this debate.

Final comments banthabot I think you rely too much on ABC logic- seen primarily through balos (hope I wrote it correct) and in hyping Jace's drake. While I understand that you did this to give context for the feats if you have too many comparisons it can break down in various ways. This is most clearly seen with the drake. You showed successfully that Chandra has very impressive pyromatic feats. You then showed that the drake sent out fire so hot that Chandra would struggle to duplicate. All this is valid however your argument that this means that the drake has equal - or near equal fire potential to Chandra is incorrect. It is only his heat that is so good - we know nothing of other qualities e.g. how destructive is it. Is it a focused 'dueler' attack or is it an AoE. Just a comment on how you can hopefully improve.

My apologies if I am long winded or confusing. Also could you possibly tag me when either of you two do a debate again as I really enjoyed this one.

Thanks

@valzaan: Thanks for the vote, I honestly didn't see it until now.

Considering Jace is twice eragons age. he probably has A LOT more experience then eragon. Plus,Jace's telepathy is FAR stronger then eragons. Has eragon ever completely shattered someone's mind? DelrhDe so many memories they are basically new borns? No . Jace has done that and more. Eragons telepathy pales in comparison to Jace's. Physically,yeah,eragon wins. Magicly,their slightly more even. though Jace is a master and counterspell user. If eragons magic can affect Jace's wards,then Jace can counter the spells just as easily.