CaV: Iron-Man Post-Infinity War (AvengersAssemble) vs Superman Pre-Justice League (BOC): ***VOTING OPEN***

They have openely expressed their bias in other topics and blatantly disrespected my viewpoints. Their opinions are no longer valid.

@avengersasssemb: Who? Besides the ones we didn't count.

Precisely the ones we didn't count.

@avengersasssemb: Oh I thought you meant others due to you original comment, the one towards jacensolo

If anybody wishes to do Thor Post-Infinity War vs Superman & Wonder Woman Post JL, I'm still interested. You've seen what I can do with Iron-Man, now imagine what I can do with Thor. The challenge is still there:

Jeez

Id like to point out 2 mistakes. Petawatts is not a unit of energy but energy per time. The laser can have significantly lower energy than 200 petaJOULES if it works like a pulse laser.

Second mistake is Superman shifting a tectonic plate is obviously newspaper exaggeration, shifting an entire plane would just cause more troubles and only the converging parts are involved anyway. Plus we don’t even know how he shifted (likely a tiny part of) the plate. For all we know he just flied through rock for hours and let the earthquake epicenter fall piece by piece and caused multiple tiny quakes instead of a devastating single one.

I couldn’t decide who to vote for tho. Sorry.

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2:

Second mistake is Superman shifting a tectonic plate is obviously newspaper exaggeration, shifting an entire plane would just cause more troubles and only the converging parts are involved anyway. Plus we don’t even know how he shifted (likely a tiny part of) the plate. For all we know he just flied through rock for hours and let the earthquake epicenter fall piece by piece and caused multiple tiny quakes instead of a devastating single one.

That's your headcanon. The tectonic plate feat is legitimate and it's canon.

Keep in mind, this guy had been obsessed with Superman. He tracked and recorded everything single thing he did and would know all about the particular article he clipped that from. "SUPERMAN SHIFTS TECTONIC PLATE, PREVENTS DEVASTATING EARTHQUAKE". Anything beyond that is headcanon. The only feasible way to stop an earthquake is to prevent the shifting of the tectonic plate by pushing against the force of said plate with lifting strength to prevent it.

But there's another statement from a comic-tie also confirming this.

That's an official BvS comic tie-in with Lex Luthor not only confirming he did prevent the earthquake, but that it was easy for him. We've never seen a healthy Superman struggling with weight. This is consistent to the verse because Zeus with the last of his power can create an island with his dying breath, and Superman is stronger than him. It took Zeus and all of his children to get Steppenwolf to retreat and Superman tossed him around like a ragdoll while trolling him. Batman explicitally states in JL he's stronger than a planet. So he's stronger in JL than he was in BvS when he prevented the earthquake.

I know MCU fanboys have tried their hardest to discredit and discount the feat because it's simply beyond anything an MCU character could ever hope to achieve. But it is what it is. It happened in the verse and it is canon with multiple statements confirming it's validity. It's not an outlier because it's consistent with the power levels of the DCEU.

@avengersasssemb said:

If anybody wishes to do Thor Post-Infinity War vs Superman & Wonder Woman Post JL, I'm still interested. You've seen what I can do with Iron-Man, now imagine what I can do with Thor. The challenge is still there:

Sure, I'm on.

@ipvman: How he did it is unknown. You are the one using headcanon. What i said is a possible way to do it. As i explained if you push against the entire plate it will only make things worse. It would cause pressure to build up on the other side of the plate. Its not a feasible way to do it let alone the only way.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PwtFuG_M4EE

Earthquakes on involve small frastions of the convergence points anyway. And slowly moving parts of the convergence point is the best way to stop a large quake.

1- Control over earth is not a battle applicable power. Unless you can prove Zeus teleported there and lifted a large chunk of earth without the use of any exotic powers, the method is unknown and not battle applicable. 2- Zeus instantly seperated mother boxes with a single lightning bolt while superman and cybord barely seperated them. 3- Stronger than a planet can mean multiple things. In context it means his body is stronger than earth thus resistant to Mother boxes destructive effect. Do note that mother boxes slowly terraform the planet by slowly breaking rock, nothing more. Their power output isnt that impressive. If we are using literal material property of strength, his body has 300+ MPa strength. Nothing more. 60 000 000 000 Pa if the boxes can terraform %100 including every material on a planet.

Also thinking it is consistent is hilarious.

@boc: @avengersasssemb: Also, no offense to both, take it as constructive criticism as you are both new and will hopefully improve a lot in upcoming days.

This was frankly a bad debate. I hope you both learn from the mistakes you made.

Starting with AA, he made some absurd claims, relying on outliers well beyond the capabilities of normal Iron Man, and lowballed the opponent's feats bringing out showings when Clark was inexperienced and weaker. Also some weird comparisons like guns and pushing back, trying to imply that Mark 1 is even in the same league as Superman. Also while the speed points he raised were valid, they did nothing to establish Iron Man as faster. So, proving that 616 Sentry has faster combat speed than 616 Thor (or pre 52 Diana/Clark comparison) adds literally nothing to the debate when he fails to prove that Iron Man is actually faster than anyone. Or trying to imply that he is more durable than Superman without even using his actual best durability feat (the meteor on titan). He goes on too much of "i've already established this" instead of backing up his claims.

Now on BOC, despite having a stat advantage, he doesn't properly utilize it in the way he should. While he raised many valid points and some good counters, he would rather insist on sticking to rather useless claims instead of bringing out more feats and sometimes ignored AA's counters. His insistence on sticking to "shockwave and no shockwave" is a tactic which can likely backfire against a better debater or might have backfired here as well if it was brought up in his first post. He also should have countered many of AA's more absurd claims. Also he insisted on stating things instead of backing them up.

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2:

That is your headcanon.

For all we know he just flied through rock for hours and let the earthquake epicenter fall piece by piece and caused multiple tiny quakes instead of a devastating single one.

At no point anywhere in the headline did it state his act caused multiple other tiny quakes. That's your fanfic. It explicitally states he prevented a "devastating" earthquake, only one and averted a disaster. I've seen some of your calculations and you seem like a smart individual. Can you please explain to me where your headcanon has precedent, or is somehow supported by evidence making it more probable than simply pushing against the force of the tectonic plate physically and preventing the earthquake? Because what your describing is a completely made up scenario, ie headcanon, versus accepting the obvious and logical solution of pushing against the earthquake to prevent it. And yeah it is consistent as I already laid out.

@ipvman: Its not backed up by in-universe proof. It is however, a possible low end and shifting it piece by piece would make more sense since it wouldnt cause earth quakes somewhere else and would only cause tiny quakes. And i use lowest possible results because anything higher is just a probability and head canon. Thats why i dont accept MCU Thor being continental or planetary just because one of his feats can be interpreted to be at that level with certain assumptions. There are much lower interpretations for Thors feats too.

Also Superman having quadrillion ton strength would completely break DCEU. With such strength he should have easily been able to throw doomsday out of the solar system, throw a mountain at the world engine etc.

Superman easely

Iron Man has no chanses

And lol at barely lifting a small part of shield's transport is equal to supes' ship strength feat

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: Wherein lies the problem. You're resorting to illogical, unprecedented or downright impossible scenarios to try to add more information to the headline than is given. That is the definition of headcanon. An earthquake happens when a tectonic plate breaks apart at a fault line. Anything you can make up is less probable and logical than he was simply just strong enough to push against the force of the earthquake and prevent a rupture. That is the most logical scenario, and what can be inferred from the headline as it is.

Not really. It would just mean Doomsday scales to BvS Superman, which he does. Why would he feel the need to toss a mountain at the world engine if he has tectonic level strength? He was also weakened in that scenario and that was in MoS. BvS is some time after.

Tony doesnt stand a change

@boc gets my vote, AA often ignored context and the way he interpreted some feats was off, such as Supernans turret feats. Additionally the points he made countered the wrong things, he focused on Iron Man taking firepower ragher than blunt force attacks, Heat Vision was also not countered too well. There's also how he used many outliers which made him seem blatantly biased.

@avengersasssemb: Is that CaV offer still open?

(Diana & Superman vs Thor)

Btw I don't see why decapitation is so out of character for Diana...

Yup, it is. I'll set it up.

@avengersasssemb: Wait I just realized that @apex_pretador asked for the CaV first, so if he still wants to do it he can.

No matter how this debate goes, I'll probably lose. The D.C. Extended-Universe fans will make sure of that. However, I will be happy to participate in this.

I have to give it to @boc simply because AA lack the knowledge on how Superman’s power work (ex: making superman vulnerable simply because he has no solar radiation to absorb by encasing him with Ironman’s suit and blow him up), thanks to BOC he pointed out a nice counter argument about it, i guess what i’m trying to say is AA made an argument that he don’t have to make because i’m not gonna lie you made a very good arguments other than Friday reading Superman’s weaknesses and counter act Superman, and the solar radiation thing)

Wow...Respect though...but wow

Honestly from what I've seen, there is more MCU fans on this site. What I'm trying to say is that you didn't lose this debate because people prefer Superman, you lost because of the way you debated. I have to give you props though, because you did have a disadvantage. You are also good at your formatting and wording, but a debater is only as good as their facts. Most of the people here had a problem with your claims and counters. We debated, and we both had improvements we could have made. But making an excuse for why you lost lowers your credibility as a debater.

How many excuses is AA gonna make lol, and yeah there is tons more MCU Fans than DCEU.

Just take the L dude.

@subline: no problem, you can continue instead.

I've never debated with dceu characters

I was going to vote Avengers since he started the debate quite nicely and i feel boc didn't do much to counter some points and his opener was outright lazy.

But once the debate was over Avenger lost the plot and carried on debating against voters . Since cav is about debater not the characters BOC gets my view for better behavior

^^^ LMAO, AA's gonna get so triggered.

Triggered by what?

@ipvman: What i said is not illogical. Pushing the entire plate in the opposite direction to stop a quake is illogical. If you do that it would crack the plate and cause much more damage.

Does "scaling" give doomsday more mass or force negating abilities ? DD is at most like 5 tons. Even if superman was only a 1 million tonner he should have easily been able to throw DD into space with a single push.

Because he was getting weakened near the machine. He could have just got away from it and throw a mountain at hypersonic speed to it. IIRC even the official list on his powers from a manual or sometjing said he could lift thousands of tons. not billions not millions. Also even in the tie in comic you used he had some problems lifting a train iirc.

Anyways this is not a thread for this debate. This is a CaV between other users.

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2:

What i said is not illogical. Pushing the entire plate in the opposite direction to stop a quake is illogical. If you do that it would crack the plate and cause much more damage.

How is that illogical? That would be how you prevent an earthquake by "shifting" the plate, you push against the force of the earthquake to prevent it. You're resorting to sci-fi fanfiction to try to dismiss the feat. The plate wouldn't crack for the same reason Superman can carry buildings over his head in the movies and comics, he has some form of aura/gravity manipulation that protects the integrity of whatever he's touching.

Does "scaling" give doomsday more mass or force negating abilities ? DD is at most like 5 tons. Even if superman was only a 1 million tonner he should have easily been able to throw DD into space with a single push.

He wasn't able to because Doomsday is stronger than him and resisting. It's pretty straight forward. But he was punching him miles in space while weakened by Kryptonite to your point.

Because he was getting weakened near the machine. He could have just got away from it and throw a mountain at hypersonic speed to it. IIRC even the official list on his powers from a manual or sometjing said he could lift thousands of tons. not billions not millions.

Throwing at a mountain at it makes little to no sense. Superman can casually bust through mountains so he probably knew he could do better. The guidebook doesn't put an upper limit on his strength, it says he's easily able to lift thousands of tons.

Also even in the tie in comic you used he had some problems lifting a train iirc.

That's just patently false.

It literally says his strength isn't the problem. Him "having problems" is just more of your headcanon, which seems to be your favorite and only pieces of evidence against the feat.

Anyways this is not a thread for this debate. This is a CaV between other users.

Just thought I'd clear up your initial comment. He can and has shifted tectonic plates and it is consistent.

Fair play to the guys involved in this CAV, and the time spent but damn. My eyes hurt.

You've seen what I can do with Iron-Man, now imagine what I can do with Thor. The challenge is still there:

That sounds more like a threat than a proposal.

Also lmao the 3 votes been discounted here are very legitimate.

BOC wins. Superman curbstomps

This was a painful read.

@thebestofthebest: This was my first cav, what could I have done better in your opinion?

I rarely comment on CV anymore but reading the post-CAV debates and 'biases' made me laugh so hard. So much joy.

AA: while your writing style was the better compared between you and your opponent unfortunately that was really your only leg up. On the merits of your points they suffered from feat contextomy to groundless assertions. I believe many have pointed that out. For that reason you lost this debate.

BOC: I think you should learn from AA on fleshing out your arguments rather than merely assuming them (even if assumed correctly). Also in some places you could have hammered your points more, in future if you meet a more experienced debater they will more likely beat you if you don't strongly ground your points and hammer them home. But good debate for your first time.

My vote goes to BOC.

By the way I am biased to Superman ??

good day

@theonetaichou: I appreciate your thoughts on how I can improve.

@boc: I was mostly referring to Yikesss's/Pr0digy's posts. His arguments were borderline terrible as many have pointed out, and he apparently can't take the L so I ain't gonna vote.

@thebestofthebest: Oh, ight.