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#1 Edited by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio
Battle Location: Titan
Battle Location: Titan

Rules:

  • Characters will be in-character.
  • Each character will have basic-knowledge on the other.
  • The characters will be 100 feet from each other before the battle begins.
  • Iron Man has access to his technology and will be inside his Bleeding Edge armor.
  • Superman will be in-character.
  • Iron-Man will not have access to Kryptonite.

CaV Rules

  • Please leave your biases at the door.
  • Please ask to be tagged during the debate.
  • This will be a debate between the two of us.
  • We will debate until we're bored and then open voting.
Represented by @avengersasssemb
Represented by @avengersasssemb
Represented by @boc
Represented by @boc

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#2 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@avengersasssemb: Before I post: This seems like a mismatch, are you sure you want to continue?

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#5 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15833 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#6 Posted by justicethorpsylocke (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#7 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

@boc said:

@avengersasssemb: Before I post: This seems like a mismatch, are you sure you want to continue?

It's not a mismatch at all. Go ahead and post.

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#8 Edited by xjlxking (48 posts) - - Show Bio

This is practically spite.

Nothing suggests that Ironman even has the ability to damage Superman, let alone tag him. You'd have to be an imbecile to stand there and assume that any version on the Ironman from MCU would match Superman. Just looking at what Quicksilver did to team without being remotely as fast, or strong.

Then you'd have to make an argument that Iron can even take a hit from Superman. Thanos while playing around was destroying him. In fact, despite just throwing around simple fire/explosions, Iron Man had to actively dodge them. Superman's heat vision alone would very likely kill Ironman. We know what Hulk managed to do to Ironman's Hulk Buster without any insane amount of strength. I'd had to see Superman in the same scenario as Clark is much stronger.

This is a spite

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#9 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

@xjlxking said:

This is practically spite.

Nothing suggests that Ironman even has the ability to damage Superman, let alone tag him. You'd have to be an imbecile to stand there and assume that any version on the Ironman from MCU would match Superman. Just looking at what Quicksilver did to team without being remotely as fast, or strong.

Then you'd have to make an argument that Iron can even take a hit from Superman. Thanos while playing around was destroying him. In fact, despite just throwing around simple fire/explosions, Iron Man had to actively dodge them. Superman's heat vision alone would very likely kill Ironman. We know what Hulk managed to do to Ironman's Hulk Buster without any insane amount of strength. I'd had to see Superman in the same scenario as Clark is much stronger.

This is a spite

Please stay out of our Challenge-A-Viner. Save your opinion for after the debate is finished, or be flagged next time.

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#10 Posted by blackpantherisb (7116 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#11 Posted by JSDoctor (1628 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP. Looks interesting.

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#12 Posted by Omnipotent94 (643 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP.

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#13 Edited by NWgzsjUwhM96Y2 (3813 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

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#14 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll open. I'll have my opening statement up in a few hours.

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#15 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and TAEP

T4V and TAEP.

@jsdoctor said:

TAEP. Looks interesting.

Opening Statement:

Iron Man
Iron Man

Tony Stark is a founding member of The Avengers, and certainly one of its most powerful members. He has been there since the beginning, and he has fought some of the other Avengers, including Hulk, Thor, and even Captain America. Ineach encounter, he has been able to hold his own; and at times, even best some of the Avengers most powerful members e.g. Hulk. His current armor (Bleeding Edge) has potentially even surpassed the Hulk in terms of brute force e.g. damaging Thanos while Hulk could not, and this easily places him on par with beings like Superman and Wonder-Woman. However, the community disagrees, which is why I've agreed to this Challenge-A-Viner: To give the underdog (Iron-Man), a fighting chance. We will beging by addressing some misconceptions about their physical capabilities and then continue with how Iron-Man counters Superman and why Iron-Man would win in a battle between these two behemoths.

Adressing some common misconceptions about strength, speed, and durability:

The biggest misconception here is the difference in strength. I'll start by throwing down Superman's greatest strength feat, and then match it with one of Iron-Man's own feats:

Superman's best strength feat
Superman's best strength feat

Superman was able to pull 25,840 tons through the ice, which is impressive, but when you push there is one component of force that adds to the weight of the body and hence there is more friction. When you pull the vertical component of force is against the weight of body and hence there is less overall friction. So it is easier to pull than push an object, which brings me to one of Iron Man's best strength feats:

One of Stark's best strength feats
One of Stark's best strength feats

So, even if we use Superman's best strength feat and compare it to Iron-Man's, the two of them are at least on the same level of strength. They are certainly comparable to one another (Oh, and this is disregarding an even better strength feat in Infinity War, but that's not needed yet), and Iron-Man is definitely strong enough to go mano-a-mano with Superman.

Now that we have looked at one of Superman's best strength feats, lets take a look at his durability, and see how it compares to Iron-Man.

Superman withstanding attacks from the Browning M2

Superman being attacked by the Browning M2
Superman being attacked by the Browning M2

The BVS DVD commentary said, that to Superman, the bullets felt like being "hit by base-balls at 60 mph", which suggests that they were hurting him (which is likely considering he is being pushed back). So we know that Superman isn't durable enough to withstand attacks from the Browning M2 for long. His durability is comparable to Stark's Mark 1 armor, which was bombarded by weapon fire from a Browning M2 as well:

Stark being attacked by the Browning M2
Stark being attacked by the Browning M2

So the two scenarios are comparable: Superman unable to hold his ground against the Browning M2 is similar to how Stark was unable to as well. Both Superman and Iron-Man were forced to eliminate the threat, which tells us that their durability is comparable. Remember, I am only comparing Superman to Tony Stark's firstIron-Man armor. I'm disregarding his later advances, which means that Iron-Man possesses enough durability to hang with the Man of Steel. For further evidence of this, we'll look at more evidence:

Superman being stunned from the GAU-8/A Avenger - 25mm

Superman & Nam-Ek being stunned by the GAU-8/A Avenger
Superman & Nam-Ek being stunned by the GAU-8/A Avenger

So we know that Superman is hurt by the Browning M2 (whereas beings like the Hulk are not), and bothered enough to avoid the GAU-8/A Avenger altogether, which was strong enough to stun Nam-Ek and Faora. Meanwhile, Iron Man's older model armors are capable of withstanding direct shots from Vulcan cannons from F-22's, which have a round size of 20mm and fire 6,000 rounds per-minute. Which is smaller than the .25mm cannons that the Kryptonians withstood, but it is at least comparable.

Iron Man being shot by the Vulcan F-22's
Iron Man being shot by the Vulcan F-22's

So, as you can see, Iron-Man actually bests Superman in this scenario because Superman was clipped by the GAU-8/A Avenger cannons, which sent him careening into the building on the right. Nam-Ek was sent hurdling backwards. The novel interpretation tells us that he braced himself for this attack, but he was unable to withstand it. However, Stark's older Iron-Man armor was able to withstand attacks of this calibre. Now, this brings us to Superman's bestdurability feat, which is what happened after the United States Army launched a nuclear bomb at Doomsday and Superman in Batman V Superman.

Superman healing from solar radiation
Superman healing from solar radiation

Superman didn't tanka nuclear explosion, it was Doomsday who did. Superman managed to survive it, so there is a big difference here. Both The Dark Knight Returns and the New 52 run of comics showed him (Superman) going skeletal in those situations, as his body uses all of its stored solar radiation to maintain its invulnerability. That is why he was restored as he entered into the sunlight. However, even this feat is matched by Iron-Man because we have seen his armor withstand a nuclear-explosion when Ultron invaded Sokovia:

Iron Man surviving an explosion of similiar magnitude
Iron Man surviving an explosion of similiar magnitude

The difference between Superman's nuke feat and Iron-Man's is that Iron-Man's is more reliable because it did notoccur in space, which actually changes how a explosion behaves. This indirectly suggests that one of Iron-Man's best durability feats is betterthan Superman's bestdurability feat. By conclusion, we know that Stark is comparable to the Man of Steel on all levels of feats. Whether it's their higher end durability, or lower end durability feats, it doesn't matter: The two of them are comparable, and that's all that matters.

This brings us to the final misconception that needs to be addressed before this debate even begins, which is how Superman compares to Tony Stark in terms of speed. Outside of Justice League (which is when Superman received a speed buff), his best speed feat places him at around Mac 27.5, or 20,716 MPH. The difference in speed between these two is tremendous, but that isn't the same as saying that Superman possesses that level of combat speed, because he doesn't. As said in the comics:

No Caption Provided
Iron Man dodging weapon fire from close range
Iron Man dodging weapon fire from close range

Now that we know that combat speed and flight speed are two different things, we need to look at the best reaction feats between the two of them. For starters, I'll show you one of Iron-Man's, which proves that he's no slouch in this area. He was able to react to weapon fire from a tank that was only a hundred meters away. Furthermore, that is not his only means to counter Superman's speed advantage. He can do what he did to Captain America and order Jarvis to analyze his fighting pattern. If he does this, any speed advantage that Superman has would become irrelevant because Iron Man's armor would automatically counter him.

"Analyze his fighting pattern." ~Stark

Counters to any conceivable way for Superman to win

Let's be honest here, Superman is more of a brawler than anything else. It's far more likely that he will attempt to engage Stark in hand to hand as opposed to attempting to defeat him by any other means. But this doesn't matter because Tony Stark has an answer to every conceivable way that Superman could potentially win outside of hand-to-hand combat.

Superman applying his Heat Vision
Superman applying his Heat Vision

Heat Vision will be useless here because Iron Man already possesses a laser that is more capable than Superman's Heat Vision. We have seen Tony Stark use this laser in outer-space (where it was able to slice through a space-craft that could withstand reentry) and underwater, where it was still powerful enough to melt steel. However, in this side by side comparison, Stark's laser easily cuts through several steel robots far easier than Superman's Heat Vision was able to slice through a steel beam.

Iron Man's lasers slicing through metal easier than Superman's Heat Vision
Iron Man's lasers slicing through metal easier than Superman's Heat Vision
Superman taking Doomsday to orbit
Superman taking Doomsday to orbit

Even if Superman attempted to win this battle by removing Stark from Titan (throwing him into orbit), he couldn't. Stark has already survived being inside the vacuum of space, and he has withstood reentry during the events of Infinity War, which means that Superman's options of defeating Stark become very limited. He would essentially have no choice but to engage Tony in hand-to-hand combat, but as discussed earlier, this isn't something that he could win because of Tony's reactions and ability to adapt to his fighting pattern, which I say, give him the victory before this battle even begins. Also, do you remember how Superman faired against Batman in hand-to-hand combat?

Stark was able to survive the vacuum of space during Infinity War
Stark was able to survive the vacuum of space during Infinity War

It is a foregone conclusion that Captain America is a far better hand-to-hand combat fighter than both Iron-Man and Superman, and psosibly even the incarnation of Batman from Superman's universe. This is very important to remember, because it shows us that Tony Stark's Iron-Man armor can give him the fighting prowess he needs to beat someone that surpasses Superman in technique. In the event (which will obviously happen because Superman is more of a brawler) that Superman engages Stark in hand-to-hand combat, the following will happen before Superman gets pulverized in close-quarters:

Superman quickly becomes decimated by Batman on even-ground.
Superman quickly becomes decimated by Batman on even-ground.
Bleeding Edge's defense mechanism
Bleeding Edge's defense mechanism

With basic knowledgeit is conceivable that Superman will be smart enough to attempt to rip Tony Stark out of his armor. The preferred way would be to rip the armor off surrounding his face and attempt to deliver a heavy blow, but guess what? Yes, Tony Stark's Bleeding Edge armor even has an answer to this. As you can see in the GIF to the left, Stark's armor automatically covers his head as soon as it becomes exposed. There is another way that Superman might be able to win, which would be to rip the Arc Reactor out of his chest. The same way the Winter Soldier attempted to do:

Winter Soldier attempting to rip the Arc Reactor from Tony's chest
Winter Soldier attempting to rip the Arc Reactor from Tony's chest

However, even attempting to do this wouldn't work because Pepper Potts told Stark that he no longer needed it during the opening scenes of Infinity War. The Bleeding Edge armor has become a part of Stark, and it can be commanded to turn into any type of structure upon Stark's skin. So it's theoretically possible that Stark could just undo the damage that Superman does to the Arc Reactor, which I doubt he would go for anyways, but I'm covering my grounds before this debate begins. As I've said before, Superman is a brawler, and he falls desparately short of equaling Stark in that area.

Conclusion:

As you can see, this is not the one-sided battle that many people believed it to be. I have demonstrated that Tony Stark's Iron-Man armors are more than capable of holding their own against someone like Superman. His older model armors have performed the same feats, but with better results. Furthermore, Tony Stark has access to lasers that eclipse Superman's Heat-Vision, and automated counters to Superman's fighting pattern. He is able to survive in the depths of space, and his suit can automatically repair any damage done to it. Superman may be some tough competition to put down, but he has been affected by Earth-based weaponry, and he can definitely be knocked out by the more versatile Iron-Man. By conclusion, Stark counters Superman in so many different ways that Superman has no answer for, and by that logic, I give Iron-Man the win.

Tony Stark
Tony Stark

Stark Victory music:

Loading Video...

Okay, it's up.

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#17 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope I'm doing Iron-Man some justice here.

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#19 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11706 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh. My. Gosh. Again??

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#20 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for votes.

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#21 Posted by Omnipotent94 (643 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by APEX_pretador (20251 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone shoot me

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#24 Posted by APEX_pretador (20251 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6583 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Battle123axe (8981 posts) - - Show Bio

....

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#28 Posted by DeadpoolJJ (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Opener:

Image result for superman henry cavill

Bio:

Superman, adopted son of Martha and Jonathan Kent, descendant of Krypton. Originally thought to be the only survivor, Kal-el was sent to Earth as a baby in order to protect him from his world’s destruction. Upon his pod’s crash, Kal-el was discovered by Jonathan and Martha Kent. After deciding to take on this responsibility, his new parents name him Clark. They nourished him and saw him as their own despite being an alien with unknown potential. As Clark grew up he became powered by Earth’s yellow sun, giving him extraordinary abilities. Despite his efforts to suppress his differences, Clark eventually takes on his greatest responsibility. He becomes the beacon of hope, Superman!

Counters/Misconceptions:

For the sake of speedy replies I will keep this post concise, providing further information when requested or necessary in later posts.

The biggest misconception here is the difference in strength. I'll start by throwing down Superman's greatest strength feat, and then match it with one of Iron-Man's own feats: Superman was able to pull 25,840 tons through the ice, which is impressive, but when you push there is one component of force that adds to the weight of the body and hence there is more friction. When you pull the vertical component of force is against the weight of body and hence there is less overall friction. So it is easier to pull than push an object, which brings me to one of Iron Man's best strength feats:

Here you explain the difference between push and pull, and how pushing generates more friction. However, this rule only applies to objects in the same circumstance. You failed to take into consideration the added friction the ice provides and the fact that Iron man is in the air (making the friction close to none.) Not to mention Iron man only lifts one forth of the ship. He also uses his jets to generate most of the force, making his lifting strength much higher than his striking. Clark however, uses sheer strength. Despite all of this, this is no where near Clark’s greatest strength feat.

His current armor (Bleeding Edge) has potentially even surpassed the Hulk in terms of brute force e.g. damaging Thanos while Hulk could not, and this easily places him on par with beings like Superman and Wonder-Woman.

This scene from Infinity War is frequently misunderstood and therefore made into something that it is not. Hulk was not able to make Thanos bleed because he was wearing a helmet at the time, and he only got a few good hits in being severely out skilled. Iron Man on the other hand got a few clean hits on an unarmored portion of Thanos. This is without consideration of Thanos’ healing factor. He doesn’t have one, making that cut the result off all the damage taken to that side of his face. Hence the popular quote “all that for a drop of blood.” I’m trying to make this post concise but if you request more evidence supporting the fact that Mark 50 is not as strong as Hulkbuster I will provide it.

The BVS DVD commentary said, that to Superman, the bullets felt like being "hit by base-balls at 60 mph", which suggests that they were hurting him (which is likely considering he is being pushed back). So we know that Superman isn't durable enough to withstand attacks from the Browning M2 for long. His durability is comparable to Stark's Mark 1 armor, which was bombarded by weapon fire from a Browning M2 as well: So the two scenarios are comparable: Superman unable to hold his ground against the Browning M2 is similar to how Stark was unable to as well. Both Superman and Iron-Man were forced to eliminate the threat, which tells us that their durability is comparable. Remember, I am only comparing Superman to Tony Stark's firstIron-Man armor. I'm disregarding his later advances, which means that Iron-Man possesses enough durability to hang with the Man of Steel. For further evidence of this, we'll look at more evidence:

I would like to start by saying that this first claim is false. If those bullets were feeling like 60mph baseballs Clark would, at the very least, be grunting. Instead he simply puts his hands up as it is an annoyance. Also, being pushed back has no relation to pain. Clark is pushed back because he was caught off guard and only weighs about 200 pounds. I will provide gifs below to further support my claim.

So we know that Superman is hurt by the Browning M2 (whereas beings like the Hulk are not), and bothered enough to avoid the GAU-8/A Avenger altogether, which was strong enough to stun Nam-Ek and Faora. Meanwhile, Iron Man's older model armors are capable of withstanding direct shots from Vulcan cannons from F-22's, which have a round size of 20mm and fire 6,000 rounds per-minute. Which is smaller than the .25mm cannons that the Kryptonians withstood, but it is at least comparable.

This second scene is explainable. Here had recently unlocked his powers and is extremely inexperienced, He had almost no idea as to what hurts him and what doesn’t, dodging them is more of a speed feat rather than a durability downplay. This can be seen when he tanks more powerful things.

Superman didn't tanka nuclear explosion, it was Doomsday who did. Superman managed to survive it, so there is a big difference here. Both The Dark Knight Returns and the New 52 run of comics showed him (Superman) going skeletal in those situations, as his body uses all of its stored solar radiation to maintain its invulnerability. That is why he was restored as he entered into the sunlight. However, even this feat is matched by Iron-Man because we have seen his armor withstand a nuclear-explosion when Ultron invaded Sokovia: The difference between Superman's nuke feat and Iron-Man's is that Iron-Man's is more reliable because it did notoccur in space, which actually changes how a explosion behaves. This indirectly suggests that one of Iron-Man's best durability feats is betterthan Superman's bestdurability feat. By conclusion, we know that Stark is comparable to the Man of Steel on all levels of feats. Whether it's their higher end durability, or lower end durability feats, it doesn't matter: The two of them are comparable, and that's all that matters.

Here you claim that Iron Man survived a blast with comparable magnitude to a nuke. If you are referring to Avengers 1, Iron Man was significantly out of the blast radius. Now, you brought up the sokovia scene. The pressure here is significant (although not the pressure of a nuke) but he does not withstand it. He is immediately blown away then starts flying. This indicates that Iron man didn’t take much force at all, leaving his best durability feat to be the one from Titan,

This brings us to the final misconception that needs to be addressed before this debate even begins, which is how Superman compares to Tony Stark in terms of speed. Outside of Justice League (which is when Superman received a speed buff), his best speed feat places him at around Mac 27.5, or 20,716 MPH. The difference in speed between these two is tremendous, but that isn't the same as saying that Superman possesses that level of combat speed, because he doesn't. As said in the comics:

True. Besides the fact that this isn't nearly Superman's greatest speed feat before Justice League.

Now that we know that combat speed and flight speed are two different things, we need to look at the best reaction feats between the two of them. For starters, I'll show you one of Iron-Man's, which proves that he's no slouch in this area. He was able to react to weapon fire from a tank that was only a hundred meters away. Furthermore, that is not his only means to counter Superman's speed advantage. He can do what he did to Captain America and order Jarvis to analyze his fighting pattern. If he does this, any speed advantage that Superman has would become irrelevant because Iron Man's armor would automatically counter him.

That comic does explain how combat speed and travel speed are different. However, this isn’t comparable to Iron Man as he is no where near the trained fighter that Wonder Woman is. Despite this I will address your claims. Iron Man is a human limited to human capabilities. While his suit does increase his speed and strength it does not and can not increase his reaction time. To do this his suit would have to have a sort of auto-pilot feature. While he may use this while he flies, he does not use it during combat (probably because it doesn’t have that feature.) If it did, the chances of Ironman getting hit would be significantly lower than what is shown in his films. When looking at this scene we need to take into consideration a few things: The distance between him and the firing point, the speed at which it travels, and the distance Iron Man must move. In this case Iron Man must move one shoulder about one foot backwards in order to dodge this. When we look at how far he is from the firing point it isn’t as impressive as one would initially think. In these conditions any healthy person would be able to replicate what Iron Man did.

Heat Vision will be useless here because Iron Man already possesses a laser that is more capable than Superman's Heat Vision. We have seen Tony Stark use this laser in outer-space (where it was able to slice through a space-craft that could withstand reentry) and underwater, where it was still powerful enough to melt steel. However, in this side by side comparison, Stark's laser easily cuts through several steel robots far easier than Superman's Heat Vision was able to slice through a steel beam.

I could argue that Superman's lasers are more powerful, but this is not needed yet. Despite this, having powerful lasers does not automatically make you durable to powerful lasers. Here you claimed that Superman’s lasers will be useless simply because Iron Man has “more capable” lasers. I will provide gifs below explaining why Superman could take Iron Man’s lasers.

It is a foregone conclusion that Captain America is a far better hand-to-hand combat fighter than both Iron-Man and Superman, and psosibly even the incarnation of Batman from Superman's universe. This is very important to remember, because it shows us that Tony Stark's Iron-Man armor can give him the fighting prowess he needs to beat someone that surpasses Superman in technique. In the event (which will obviously happen because Superman is more of a brawler) that Superman engages Stark in hand-to-hand combat, the following will happen before Superman gets pulverized in close-quarters:

Iron Man being able to out maneuver Captain America in h2h is impressive, but Iron Man is stronger than him. Here Iron Man is massively out classed and therefore won’t be as effective, if effective at all. The clip you provided is the scene where Clark is affected by kryptonite, making his strength inferior to Batman in that armor. This is inapplicable as Tony will not have access to kryptonite.

He would essentially have no choice but to engage Tony in hand-to-hand combat, but as discussed earlier, this isn't something that he could win because of Tony's reactions and ability to adapt to his fighting pattern, which I say, give him the victory before this battle even begins. Also, do you remember how Superman faired against Batman in hand-to-hand combat?

Now, regarding his combat analysis feature. This feature takes a few seconds to scan a pattern that is being used. He was able to do this against Captain America because he was able to tank his punches. The same can not be said when referring to Superman. Nor will it have any real effect as Superman majorly outclasses him in strength (meaning Iron Man will not be able to block his punches) and he out classes him in combat speed (meaning Iron Man will not be able to continuously dodge his punches.) I will explain why below.

With basic knowledgeit is conceivable that Superman will be smart enough to attempt to rip Tony Stark out of his armor. The preferred way would be to rip the armor off surrounding his face and attempt to deliver a heavy blow, but guess what? Yes, Tony Stark's Bleeding Edge armor even has an answer to this. As you can see in the GIF to the left, Stark's armor automatically covers his head as soon as it becomes exposed. There is another way that Superman might be able to win, which would be to rip the Arc Reactor out of his chest. The same way the Winter Soldier attempted to do: However, even attempting to do this wouldn't work because Pepper Potts told Stark that he no longer needed it during the opening scenes of Infinity War. The Bleeding Edge armor has become a part of Stark, and it can be commanded to turn into any type of structure upon Stark's skin. So it's theoretically possible that Stark could just undo the damage that Superman does to the Arc Reactor, which I doubt he would go for anyways, but I'm covering my grounds before this debate begins. As I've said before, Superman is a brawler, and he falls desparately short of equaling Stark in that area.

Honestly, with the stat advantage, I don’t see Superman resorting to either of these tactics. However, if he did he may be successful. Let me explain: Iron Man’s regeneration is limited if Superman were to go that route, but if he were to remove Tony’s arc reactor Tony would be left powerless. The quote you are referring to from Pepper was misunderstood. She was stating that Iron Man could survive without his arc reactor, since he previously couldn’t. Before his surgery, Stark relied on the arc reactor as it kept him alive (this is seen in Iron Man 1.) Now he is able to remove it if he wanted. In response to Pepper, Tony says that he keeps it for protection from future threats. Meaning that he keeps it in order to have access to, and power, his suit. Although I don’t think Superman would need to take this route, he definitely could successfully.

Superman:

Strength:

Held this portion of an oil rig before unleashing his full potential:

Able to send Batman in his armor flying with a tap. This armor is said to weigh about 480 pounds with Bruce (which is about twice as heavy as Mark 50 with Stark.) So just think of what a real punch would do to a lighter opponent:

Carried this portion of a rocket. Which was determined to weigh about 82.5 tons:

Just for fun I wanted to add this scene where he casually breaks free from handcuffs. Which are designed to withstand about 490 pounds of force:

However, his best feat occurs off-screen. Here we can see a newspaper which depicts his greatest feat: Before you claim that this can not be used, let me remind you that this is a movie and was obviously placed here intentionally by the directors (probably for lack of visual effects.) The average weight of a tectonic plate is estimated to weigh about 24 quintillion tons.

Speed:

As you already stated, Superman far outclasses Iron Man in travel speed. So in order for more relevancy to this battle, I will provide combat speed feats.

Here he dodges bullets. Now you may claim that he aim dodged, which is possible. But even if he did we could calculate the speed at which he moves by looking at the distance and the time. This would alone put his speed above Iron Man is short bursts:

Superman & Nam-Ek being stunned by the GAU-8/A Avenger

There’s also this feat from Faora (an inferior to Superman.) In this movie she is temporarily Superman’s better. But he begins to unlock more of his potential (and absorbs more solar rays) as the hours, and now years go by:

Obviously this section was more rushed. However, I can provide more feats if needed.

Durability:

My goal here is not to prove that Superman is more durable than Iron Man (although I could.) My goal is to prove that Iron Man does not have the damage output to effectively harm Superman.

Here he flies through a portion of a mountain unharmed. Note that this is directly after attempting to unlock his powers, meaning that he is nowhere near his full potential:

Here he tanks punches that are strong enough to not only negate his flying speed but redirect him backwards at speeds over Mach 1. Yes, he is pushed back, but he is ultimately unharmed:

His skin is extremely heat resistant (making Iron Man’s lasers practically useless.) He can survive reentry, I am aware that Iron Man’s lasers have surpassed this albeit slowly, but his skin is fully intact after taking a nuke. Being that he was directly hit by this nuke, the heat that was emitted surpasses the heat of the sun. While he is left severely damaged after this, my point is that his skin can take heats far greater than Iron Man’s lasers or missiles. I can provide gifs is necessary.

Iron Man’s repulsors have yet to show power that can one shot Captain America, let alone damage Superman. Therefore I will not address them unless you can prove otherwise.

Powers/abilities:

Superman possesses unique abilities such as freeze breathe, heat vision, and pressurized breath. I do believe Iron Man could resist all of these to a degree so for the sake of being concise I will fully address these in a future post. However I will show a gif of Zod’s heat vision (which is notably weaker than Clark’s) in order to show you that it contains extreme power.

Conclusion:

Typically, CaV posts are not hasty. Hence this simplified post that does not contain much detail. Either way, as you can see here, Superman far outstats Iron Man in Strength, Speed, etc. and has the durability to withstand Iron Man's damage output. The scenarios you presented were taken out of context and showcased Superman at his worst, while presenting Iron Man at his best. You also made unsupported and inaccurate claims such as Mark 50 being stronger than Hulkbuster, simply from making Thanos bleed. I'm prepared for future claims as I am sure you are. Ball's on your court now.

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So our posts occur in chronological order, I will finish constructing my rebuttals, delate my previous post, and post it in response to your opening statement.

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Second Statement

Tony Stark
Tony Stark

" That man is playing Galaga ! He thought we wouldn't notice, but we did."

Credit Tony Stark

Iron-Man
Iron-Man

As proven in my opening statement, Iron-Man has comparabledurability, strength, and speed: He also has counters to essentially any conceivable way for Superman to win. Iron-Man's ability to adaptto Superman's fighting style also makes up for what Iron-Man lacks in speed. However, we also reinforced this argument by showing that Iron-Man is capable of reacting to missle fire from tanks, projectiles that travel 1 kilometer (or more) per-second. This shows us that Iron-Man is more than capable of engaging Superman in hand-to-hand combat and defeating him. However, we won't just stop there. We will continue by addressing even moremisconceptions about their strength, speed, and durability, before we continue with the rebuttals. But for now, we'll open with some very important things that need to be considered, such as his intelligence.

Intelligence

Stark inside his lab
Stark inside his lab

Tony Stark may very well be the most intelligent engineer/individual in the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe. His intelligence is unparalled and has even earned the respect of Thanos: A being from across the cosmos who was impacted by Stark's influence in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. His achievements surpass those of modern day scientists in the real world. Some of his achievements include:

  1. Making a circuit board at the age of 4.
  2. Building a V8 engine at the age of 6.
  3. Engineering advanced A.I. programs such as Jarvis, Ultron and Friday.

These are some incredible feats, but his most incredible would probably when he created a new element: https://streamable.com/7mun3 Why are these feats important? Because it shows us that Stark is more than capable of knowing Superman's limitations before the battle begins. He will use his intelligence to his advantage and then find a way to win. It would almost be considered an insult to the character to think otherwise. Furthermore, we know that Superman is limited (to some degree) in his strength and durability. Both of which will be covered below, followed by how Stark can use his intelligence to turn the battle to his favor.

Weapons

Iron-Man's counter-measures
Iron-Man's counter-measures

The Iron-Man suit is not without its own means. It can employ a variety of attacks to overwhelm Superman, some of these attacks Superman has no logical counter for e.g. When people were being held hostage in Iron-Man 1 and Stark was able to quickly kill the terrorists by employing this method of attack. Furthermore, it can be paired with Jarvis' ability to exposes weaknessess in Iron-Man's opposition, which means that Stark might be able to cripple him with this attack. Friday is the suits new interface and it assists Tony during combat and out of combat. This definitely counters as a relevant weapon because Stark can use Friday to expose weaknesses in Superman.

"J.A.R.V.I.S., find me a soft spot."

Credit Tony Stark
Stark controlling his suit at will
Stark controlling his suit at will

Furthermore, the suit can wrap itself around Superman and trap him inside, which would cut off his contact with solar radiation, which means that Superman would not be able to recover from any type of injury that Iron-Man deals to him. Oh, and did I mention that Stark can simply blow up the Iron-Man suit at will? Since Superman doesn't have access to solar radiation, I find it highly unlikely that he would escape from this type of injury unscathed. If you feel otherwise, please show us Superman recovering from an injury without the use of sunlight. Another option for Iron-Man defeating Superman by this method of attack is to simply win by Battlefield Removal. Does Superman have an answer to this?

Iron-Man's missles are powerful enough to disintegrate entire tanks! This type of power is suffifient enough to damage Superman since armor piercing ammo has damaged him before e.g. the feats in my opening statement. This type of attack from Iron-Man greatly surpasses that. This means that Superman would have to avoid it or be critically injured, which can simultaneously be paired with Iron-Man's control of his uniform above.

https://gfycat.com/vigorouswearyemperorshrimp-respectthreads

Iron-Man's lasers
Iron-Man's lasers

Now, let's look at how Superman's Heatvision actually compares to Stark's lasers. We'll use some mathematics to come to this determination, but the result might surprise you. So Stark's lasers can generate up to 200-Pettawatts of power, which equals 200,000,000 Gigajoules of energy per-second, which is so much more powerful than Superman's Heat Vision that Iron-Man can literally attack him with this and cut him in half. We also know that Doomsday can harm Superman with his own Heat Vision (which is somewhat more powerful than Superman's since the two faced on a test of strength and Doomsday narrowly won), so it's a foregone conclusion that Iron Man can one-shot with his lasers.

Superman's Heat Vision is much weaker than Iron-Man's
Superman's Heat Vision is much weaker than Iron-Man's

Citations:

Iron-Man's lasers scaling to 200 Pettawatts of power: https://youtu.be/FF7vH8OifxU?t=264

Superman's Heat Vision converted to Joules of Energy: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/how-much-energy-do-you-think-dceu-superman-heat-vi-1892666/

Superman Can Generate 3.8+ Gigajoules/ second

Conversion for Petawatts to Gigajoules: https://www.translatorscafe.com/unit-converter/en/power/3-62/petawatt-gigajoule%2Fsecond/

1 petawatt = 1,000,000 gigajoule

Addressing more common misconceptions about strength and durability...

Derrick size
Derrick size

Before we continue with the rebuttals toward your opening statement, let's first address some more things about how these two characters compare to each other in terms of strength, speed, and durability. I explained a lot of things in my opening statement, but I feel as though I left a lot of things out, so I will begin by addressing these things beforecontinuing with my rebuttals to your opening statement.

For starters, and to get a scale of how large a Derrick is, I've managed to locate one on Google Images, and as you can see, it isn't very large at all. However, it is comprised entirely of steel, so the object would undoubtedly weight quite a bit. However, even an object of this small proportion was pushing Superman to his limits.

Superman struggling to push the Derrick back
Superman struggling to push the Derrick back

As you can see from the GIF to the left, Superman's body is being stressed as his body supports the weight of a Derrick. Furthermore, in the GIF below, you can see that after it fell on top of him, he was actually knocked unconcious, which makes me wonder how durablr Superman even is. The Man of Steel shouldn'tbe pushed to his limits by an object of such small proportion, let alone actually being knocked unconcious. I will include several feats from Iron-Man to demonstrate how durable he is by comparison. So if Superman isn't durable enough to withstand holding (a portion of the weight of the Derrick) the Derrick above his head, how can you argue that he is way stronger than Iron-Man? Who has a comparable feat below:

Iron Man pushing more weight than the Derrick Superman pushed
Iron Man pushing more weight than the Derrick Superman pushed

So it seems that Iron-Man has comparable strength feats to Superman, but guess what? His durability feats eclipse those of Superman. Superman was knocked unconcious after the Derrick fell on top of him, which is a hilariously bad durability feat because Iron-Man has survived missle attacks from a f****** Jericho strike.

The Jericho actually classifies as a small nuclear weapon, which shows us just how durable Iron-Man's armor really is. If Superman has to avoid weapon fire from armor piercing rounds, and Iron \-Man can withstand Jericho strikes, ask yourself who is more durable: And be honest with yourself.

Superman knocked unconcious after a Derrick fell on him
Superman knocked unconcious after a Derrick fell on him

Furthermore, Iron-Man was hit by a Jericho strike but he wasn't so much as affected. This occurred in the comic adaption, but it is still completely valid because it covers areas that the films could not. So Superman is bothered by the GAU-A/8 Avenger and Browning M2, while Iron-Man has no-sold Jericho strikes? Well, it seems to be that Iron-Man is even more durable,and yes I'll say it, than Superman is!

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Iron Man no-selling a Jericho strike
Zod frightened of a falling building
Zod frightened of a falling building

We have shown that Kryptonians are bothered by weapons such as the GAU-A/8 Avenger and Browning M2, now we are going to further reinforce this position by showing you that they are also scared of falling buildings. With this in mind, let's remember one key moment during Iron-Man's fight against the Hulk. Now, you can argue that it didn't damage him, but that's not the point. It wouldhave damaged that. The look on his face is telling of his fear of having the building collapse on him, which means that Zod may not have been capable of withstanding that. Zod would have no reason to be fearful unlesshe was in immediate danger.

Iron-Man & Hulk withstanding an event that frightened Zod.
Iron-Man & Hulk withstanding an event that frightened Zod.

And, as you can see from this side-by-side comparison, Iron-Man and Hulk were more than cabale of withstanding a building falling on them. There was no cause for concern, which indirectly tells us that both Iron-Man and Hulk are more durable than Zod is. Furthermore, Iron Man's Bleeding Edge armor is even more durable than this because of the improvements that Stark has made to his armor, and because of other durability feats that Iron-Man has against the Mad Titan. However, those feats are not needed right now because Iron-Man has enough to suggest that he can go toe-to-toe with the Man of Steel.

Zod and Superman create shock-waves while punching each other
Zod and Superman create shock-waves while punching each other
Iron-Man and Hulk create large shock-waves by punching each other
Iron-Man and Hulk create large shock-waves by punching each other

Okay so, now that we know that Iron-Man compares to Superman in terms of durability (and likely surpasses him), let's move on to punchingpower. This is extremely important to cover because Superman is more of a brawler (and a shitty one at that since he was utterly humiliated by Batman in hand-to-hand combat), as opposed to a trained hand-to-hand combat fighter. The punching force that the Kryptonians can exter is extremely impressive because it can actually create minorshockwaves. However, even this impressive feat pale in comparison to what Iron-Man and Hulk are capable of doing. As you can see in the GIF above, the shockwave that was produced by them was powerful enough to crush the vehicle that was beside them. Oh, and the shockwave that was generated from the power of their punch pushed people over that were a hundred meters away. It's a far more powerful shockwave, and it tells us that Iron Man and Hulk can punch harder than Zod can.

Iron-Man will not be going down without a fight
Iron-Man will not be going down without a fight

Rebuttals:

Before I continue with my rebuttals, let's create a graph and see how Iron-Man and Superman compare to each other on a logical basis. This is the fairest method of comparison, completely free of all bias and self-preferences. Hopefully, it will show us what I hope it does e.g. Superman and Iron-Man (at least by Infinity War) are comparable to each other. I'm not saying that Iron-Man can defeat the Superman from the Justice League film (he obviously received a buff), but he is more than capable of taking on the Superman from any previous film.

Stacking their feats side-by-side:

By order of magnitudeIron-ManSuper-Man
Lower-endDamaged by the Vulcan F-22's .20 mm in Iron Man 1.Stunned by the GAU-8/A Avenger. .25mm in Man of Steel during the Smallville fight.
Middle-endOverpowered by the Browning M2 .50 mm during Iron Man 1.Overpowered by the Browning M2 .50 mm in Batman V Superman.
High-endWithstanding the nuclear-level explosion from Sokovia in Age of Ultron.Withstanding a nuclear-level explosion in outer-space in Batman V Superman

As you can see, they are generally the same in all categories. Both of them have accomplished the same things, and both of them can withstand the same level of damage. It is up to you to prove otherwise because I've shown, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Iron-Man and Superman have comparable levels of durability.

Here you explain the difference between push and pull, and how pushing generates more friction. However, this rule only applies to objects in the same circumstance. You failed to take into consideration the added friction the ice provides and the fact that Iron man is in the air (making the friction close to none.) Not to mention Iron man only lifts one forth of the ship. He also uses his jets to generate most of the force, making his lifting strength much higher than his striking. Clark however, uses sheer strength. Despite all of this, this is no where near Clark’s greatest strength feat.

Superman pulling a ship
Superman pulling a ship

Incorrect. This applies to all objects in all circumstances. Pushing is more difficult than pulling is, this is why people have been known to pull airplanes, but remain incapable of pushing that same amount.

Your assertion about Superman pulling the ship throughthe ice is also incorrect, if we look further into it we can see that Superman was pulling the ship ontopof the ice. The snow/ice was simply a build-up of doing so. Furthermore, Iron-Man was in the air, which means that there was nothing to support the weight of the object he was pushing (unlike Superman, who had the ground to help alleviate some of the weight), which makes Iron-Man's feat far more impressive. By conclusion, Iron-Man can lift more than Superman can pull, which would factor into his striking force as well, considering:

Iron Man uses his thrusters to increase his striking power
Iron Man uses his thrusters to increase his striking power

This scene from Infinity War is frequently misunderstood and therefore made into something that it is not. Hulk was not able to make Thanos bleed because he was wearing a helmet at the time, and he only got a few good hits in being severely out skilled. Iron Man on the other hand got a few clean hits on an unarmored portion of Thanos. This is without consideration of Thanos’ healing factor. He doesn’t have one, making that cut the result off all the damage taken to that side of his face. Hence the popular quote “all that for a drop of blood.” I’m trying to make this post concise but if you request more evidence supporting the fact that Mark 50 is not as strong as Hulkbuster I will provide it.

Hulk striking Thanos in the face
Hulk striking Thanos in the face

I disagree. Thanos' armor was irrelevant because Hulk was literally doing nothing but punching in repeatedly in theface. The GIF proves that, and none of it did any lasting damage. However, Iron-Man was able to damage him by increasing his striking power by combining it with his thrusters! I see no reason to think that he couldn't do the same to Superman, who does not have the durability to withstand that level of striking force. He was bothered by the Browning M2, a calibre that Hulk no-sold. What makes you think he could withstand a solid punch from the Bleeding Edge armor?

I would like to start by saying that this first claim is false. If those bullets were feeling like 60mph baseballs Clark would, at the very least, be grunting. Instead he simply puts his hands up as it is an annoyance. Also, being pushed back has no relation to pain. Clark is pushed back because he was caught off guard and only weighs about 200 pounds. I will provide gifs below to further support my claim.

A 200 pound man holding his ground against a train
A 200 pound man holding his ground against a train

Do you know how loud a Browning M2 is? It would drown out any sound from Superman. Further evidence is not needed because the commentary does not lie. If you feel otherwise, you have to show us why the writers would lie to us.

Iron-Man taken off-guard but holding his ground against the Browning M2
Iron-Man taken off-guard but holding his ground against the Browning M2

Furthermore, being pushed back shows us that Superman does not possesses the strength to hold his ground against .50 calibre ammunition, whereas even the Mark 1 does. Superman also braced himself, but he still couldn't hold his ground. So this debunks your argument about his weight being a factor. Hancock and Iron-Man were able to hold their ground, but a braced Superman was not. Debunking you.

Superman bracing himself but being overpowered by the Browning M2
Superman bracing himself but being overpowered by the Browning M2

This second scene is explainable. Here had recently unlocked his powers and is extremely inexperienced, He had almost no idea as to what hurts him and what doesn’t, dodging them is more of a speed feat rather than a durability downplay. This can be seen when he tanks more powerful things.

Superman sizing up the Derrick against his own capabilities
Superman sizing up the Derrick against his own capabilities

Superman definitely knows what can hurt him and what can't, if he didn't, he wouldn't throw himself into fire or attempt to hold a Derrick up in an effort to save lives. According to you, he placed himself in these circumstances not knowing he would survive them or not, well.. this is wrong because we can see Superman sizing up the Derrick. He's trying to determine whether he has the strength to stop it. Therefore he knows what he can do.

A durability downplay? That would be relevant if Nam-Ek wasn't knocked off his ass by the cannons, which he was. He was stunned because he had to crack his neck afterward. This tells us that Superman was intimidated of the cannon fire, and that's why he was forced to escape.

Here you claim that Iron Man survived a blast with comparable magnitude to a nuke. If you are referring to Avengers 1, Iron Man was significantly out of the blast radius. Now, you brought up the sokovia scene. The pressure here is significant (although not the pressure of a nuke) but he does not withstand it. He is immediately blown away then starts flying. This indicates that Iron man didn’t take much force at all, leaving his best durability feat to be the one from Titan,

Actually, Nasa has said that the blast of an explosion in outer-space would be different than at ground level, where oxygen remains. Scarlet Witch was still on Sokovia before Vision rescued her, and she showed no signs of running out of oxygen, so this means that your argument is wrong.

Stark surviving the explosion of Sokovia
Stark surviving the explosion of Sokovia

Furthermore, as you can see from the GIF, Sokovia exploded from the top down. Iron Man was directly on the other end of the landmass as it exploded, which it did directly in his face. The quick scene of Iron-Man in his suit, with a concerned look on his face, is intended to show us of the danger he is in. So by conclusion, Iron-Man did withstand a level of explosion comparable to what Superman did in Batman V Superman.

That comic does explain how combat speed and travel speed are different.

However, this isn’t comparable to Iron Man as he is no where near the trained fighter that Wonder Woman is. Despite this I will address your claims. Iron Man is a human limited to human capabilities. While his suit does increase his speed and strength it does not and can not increase his reaction time. To do this his suit would have to have a sort of auto-pilot feature. While he may use this while he flies, he does not use it during combat (probably because it doesn’t have that feature.) If it did, the chances of Ironman getting hit would be significantly lower than what is shown in his films. When looking at this scene we need to take into consideration a few things: The distance between him and the firing point, the speed at which it travels, and the distance Iron Man must move. In this case Iron Man must move one shoulder about one foot backwards in order to dodge this. When we look at how far he is from the firing point it isn’t as impressive as one would initially think. In these conditions any healthy person would be able to replicate what Iron Man did.

Travel speed is the speed that someone can flyat, whereas combat speed is how quickly they fight in hand-to-hand combat. I'll give you a few examples from comics:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

As you can see, Thor possesses the flight speed to travel faster than the speed of light with Mjolnir, but he cannot fight that quickly as The Sentry quickly overpowers him. So just because Superman can travel 5x as fast as Iron-Man, it doesn't mean that he fights that much quicker than he does in hand to hand combat. We know he doesn't because Zod only creates minor shockwaves with his punches, so he barely breaks the sound barrier.

No Caption Provided

However, this isn’t comparable to Iron Man as he is no where near the trained fighter that Wonder Woman is. Despite this I will address your claims. Iron Man is a human limited to human capabilities.

This is wrong because an ordinary human being would not be able to react to missle fire from close-range, so we know this is wrong.

While his suit does increase his speed and strength it does not and can not increase his reaction time. To do this his suit would have to have a sort of auto-pilot feature. While he may use this while he flies, he does not use it during combat (probably because it doesn’t have that feature.) The suit has acted on its own accord without any intervention from Tony Stark:

While he may use this while he flies, he does not use it during combat (probably because it doesn’t have that feature.)

Friday taking over for Stark in combat
Friday taking over for Stark in combat

This is horrendously wrong because the only way Tony Stark was able to defeat Captain America in hand-to-hand combat was by letting FRIDAY take over and counter Captain America! Friday literally says "Counter-measures ready," before the battle becomes horribly one-sided. So this tells us that she was able to counter Captain America's fighting style in combat, which Stark can also do to Superman since Superman is a brawler.

The distance between him and the firing point, the speed at which it travels, and the distance Iron Man must move. In this case Iron Man must move one shoulder about one foot backwards in order to dodge this. When we look at how far he is from the firing point it isn’t as impressive as one would initially think. In these conditions any healthy person would be able to replicate what Iron Man did.

Missles travel at over 1 kilometer per second, which is as fast as a bullet. Are you telling us that ordinary human beings are bullet timers?

No Caption Provided

I could argue that Superman's lasers are more powerful, but this is not needed yet. Despite this, having powerful lasers does not automatically make you durable to powerful lasers. Here you claimed that Superman’s lasers will be useless simply because Iron Man has “more capable” lasers. I will provide gifs below explaining why Superman could take Iron Man’s lasers.

Superman being damaged by heat vision
Superman being damaged by heat vision

Actually, my second statement proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Iron-Man's lasers produce many times more energy. Therefore, they are many times more powerful, and if Doomsday's lasers could hurt Superman, what do you reckon something 10x as powerful would do? Superman would literally be sliced in half!

Iron Man being able to out maneuver Captain America in h2h is impressive, but Iron Man is stronger than him. Here Iron Man is massively out classed and therefore won’t be as effective, if effective at all. The clip you provided is the scene where Clark is affected by kryptonite, making his strength inferior to Batman in that armor. This is inapplicable as Tony will not have access to kryptonite.

I provided that scene to showcase how good of a hand-to-hand combat fighter Superman is. He's not good at all, he's shit. Lol. Tony would adapt to his fighting pattern and utterly destroy him.

Now, regarding his combat analysis feature. This feature takes a few seconds to scan a pattern that is being used. He was able to do this against Captain America because he was able to tank his punches. The same can not be said when referring to Superman. Nor will it have any real effect as Superman majorly outclasses him in strength (meaning Iron Man will not be able to block his punches) and he out classes him in combat speed (meaning Iron Man will not be able to continuously dodge his punches.) I will explain why below.

Hm? There is a lot wrong with this, so I'll lay it out in three categories:

  1. Durability: My graph above shows us that Iron-Man and Superman have comparable durability across all areas. Whether it's their lower-end feats or higher-end feats, it doesn't matter: They're comparable. Superman isn't putting Iron-Man down before Iron-Man adapts to his fighting pattern.
  2. Combat Speed: Zod's punches barely broke the sound barrier, whereas Hulk and Iron-Man's were able to destroy the surrounding area. This means their combat speed is relatively the same.
  3. Punching force: Iron Man can push more than Superman can pull, and he can increase his striking force with his thrusters, to the point where his punches surpass the Hulk. He possesses more than enough striking force to K.O Superman, who was knocked unconcious by a falling Derrick.

Honestly, with the stat advantage, I don’t see Superman resorting to either of these tactics. However, if he did he may be successful. Let me explain: Iron Man’s regeneration is limited if Superman were to go that route, but if he were to remove Tony’s arc reactor Tony would be left powerless. The quote you are referring to from Pepper was misunderstood. She was stating that Iron Man could survive without his arc reactor, since he previously couldn’t. Before his surgery, Stark relied on the arc reactor as it kept him alive (this is seen in Iron Man 1.) Now he is able to remove it if he wanted. In response to Pepper, Tony says that he keeps it for protection from future threats. Meaning that he keeps it in order to have access to, and power, his suit. Although I don’t think Superman would need to take this route, he definitely could successfully.

If Thanos didn't immediately try and rip the Arc Reactor from his body, what makes you think Superman would? Even with basicknowledge, no other opponent besides the Winter Soldier has ever been smart enough to try this method of attack, so I doubt that Superman would.

Held this portion of an oil rig before unleashing his full potential:

Actually, what he held was a Derrick, which is much smaller than an Oil Rig. This is covered in my second statement.

Able to send Batman in his armor flying with a tap. This armor is said to weigh about 480 pounds with Bruce (which is about twice as heavy as Mark 50 with Stark.) So just think of what a real punch would do to a lighter opponent:

This is actually an impressive feat, but I fail to see why it would do any damage to Iron-Man, who has already withstood punches from Thanos. He gets knocked back, so what? He was shot out of the sky from a tank and he got back up like nothing happened.

Carried this portion of a rocket. Which was determined to weigh about 82.5 tons:

Can you see the strain on his face? He's approaching his lifting limit. Whereas Iron Man was able to lift more by increasing his strength by using his thrusters.

However, his best feat occurs off-screen. Here we can see a newspaper which depicts his greatest feat: Before you claim that this can not be used, let me remind you that this is a movie and was obviously placed here intentionally by the directors (probably for lack of visual effects.) The average weight of a tectonic plate is estimated to weigh about 24 quintillion tons.

Unless you can show us exactly how he was able to accomplish that, than we can disregard it because it occurred off screen. We don't know what happened, so it classifies as an outlier. Furthermore, it contradicts previously established evidence e.g. Superman approaching his limits by lifting a NASA shuttle over his head.

As you already stated, Superman far outclasses Iron Man in travel speed. So in order for more relevancy to this battle, I will provide combat speed feats.

Here he dodges bullets. Now you may claim that he aim dodged, which is possible. But even if he did we could calculate the speed at which he moves by looking at the distance and the time. This would alone put his speed above Iron Man is short bursts:

He anticipated the trajectory of the bullets, but that isn't the same as dodging them. Furthermore, he was clipped by them and sent careening into the building beside the road. So it isn't really impressive at the least. Whereas Iron-Man had no time to anticipate the trajectory of the missle that was shot at him, yet he managed to successfully pull himself out of the way.

My goal here is not to prove that Superman is more durable than Iron Man (although I could.)

That would be difficult for you to do since I have already shown their best durability feats. The conclusion that was drawn is that they're comparable to each other.

My goal is to prove that Iron Man does not have the damage output to effectively harm Superman.

  1. Thor withstood the full force of a star.
  2. Hulk withstood weapon fire that Superman could not.
  3. Thanos has nearly indestructible skin.

Yet, Iron-Man has damaged ever single one of them.

Conclusion: Iron-Man can damage Superman.

Here he flies through a portion of a mountain unharmed. Note that this is directly after attempting to unlock his powers, meaning that he is nowhere near his full potential:

Superman had his powers all along. This was the point of the flash-backs as he attempts to understand who he is and why he's on Earth. It isn't a story about Superman unlockingabilities he had all along, it's a story about a man searching for purpose and redemption. Furthermore, Superman was directly in sunlight, and we know how that heals him almost instantly:

No Caption Provided

Here he tanks punches that are strong enough to not only negate his flying speed but redirect him backwards at speeds over Mach 1. Yes, he is pushed back, but he is ultimately unharmed:

What's so impressive about this? Hulk and Iron-Man have already thrown punches way harder than that. The shockwave they caused damaged their surrounding area. That punch from Doomsday did little to their environment.

His skin is extremely heat resistant (making Iron Man’s lasers practically useless.)

Hm, no. He was being damaged from Doomsday's Heat Vision, which means that Iron-Man can damage him with his own lasers since they were able to casually cut through a spacecraft e.g. Infinity War, that could withstand reentry.

but his skin is fully intact after taking a nuke.

He didn't tank the nuke. Doomsday did, and Doomsday is an energy-absorber. Furthermore, Superman was at his limits. The radiation in his body was all used up, whereas Iron-Man was able to recover from the Sokovia explosion rather quickly.

While he is left severely damaged after this, my point is that his skin can take heats far greater than Iron Man’s lasers or missiles. I can provide gifs is necessary.

This is wrong. The heat caused from a nuclear explosion (particularly the heat that you're referring to), only lasts a brief period (less than a second) before it begins to decrease. Therefore you cannot use this to argue that Superman can withstand temperatures far greater than the core of the Sun. Why? Because Doomsdays heat vision was already damaging him. That's a logical inconsistency, and it does not work.

Superman possesses unique abilities such as freeze breathe, heat vision, and pressurized breath. I do believe Iron Man could resist all of these to a degree so for the sake of being concise I will fully address these in a future post. However I will show a gif of Zod’s heat vision (which is notably weaker than Clark’s) in order to show you that it contains extreme power.

This is Pre-Justice League. Superman does not have freeze breath here or presurrized breath. So nothing in this paragraph needs to be addressed. You should read this Challenge-A-Viner more thoroughly.

Typically, CaV posts are not hasty. Hence this simplified post that does not contain much detail. Either way, as you can see here, Superman far outstats Iron Man in Strength, Speed, etc. and has the durability to withstand Iron Man's damage output. The scenarios you presented were taken out of context and showcased Superman at his worst, while presenting Iron Man at his best. You also made unsupported and inaccurate claims such as Mark 50 being stronger than Hulkbuster, simply from making Thanos bleed. I'm prepared for future claims as I am sure you are. Ball's on your court now.

You have failed to address all my arguments, and you have failed to provide good counter-arguments to the established capabilities of Iron-Man. As far as I'm concerned, you haven't shifted my opinion in the least. Iron-Man is comparable and still possesses the versatility, strength, endurance, durability, and speed to get the job done.

My second statement is completely finished.

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#36 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

@avengersasssemb: Alright, I'll read it and post either tonight or tomorrow. Please refrain from posting until then, as it is unfair.

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#39 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump. Wondering if you will have your response made soon.

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#40 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by IPvMan (792 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

We're looking for votes if anybody is interested.

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#43 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

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"Well... I believe in truth. But I'm also a big fan of justice."

Counters

First, I would like to address two huge misconceptions. One: Iron Man’s bleeding edge armor is not as strong as his hulkbuster armor, nor are us viewers ever led to believe so. It took the combined efforts of Bruce and Tony to calculate the Hulk’s strength and properly counter it with the hulkbuster armor. The hulkbuster is powered by 11 arc reactors and had to sacrifice abilities such as extended flight and mobility. If I am not mistaken, you claim that his new suit is stronger simply because he made Thanos bleed while Hulk did not. Well, Hulk was punching an armored Thanos (the armor was succeeding in its sole purpose.) Iron Man, on the other hand, was hitting an unarmored portion of Thanos. Not to mention that the Russo brothers already confirmed that the drop of blood was the result of all the efforts taken to that side of his face prior to this. Meaning that all the damage Thanos took there (from all characters) led to that drop of blood. Not the single efforts of Iron Man.

Two: Iron Man’s lasers are not 200 petawatts. If it were generated by that much power, it would be many times hotter than the Sun. Meaning that if he were to ever use it, it would disintegrate everything around it. But for a second let’s ignore the physics; This would be Iron Man’s greatest weapon by a large margin, so why doesn’t he use it in every fight. Like instead of wasting your time with missiles just shoot Thanos with this, it would disintegrate him. The writers obviously did not know what they were talking about, and therefore only its feats are reliable. If I’m correct, his greatest feat would be cutting through Ebony Maw’s ship. Well Superman has already been unpierced by much hotter temperatures.

Now let’s look at some other claims:

Why are these feats important? Because it shows us that Stark is more than capable of knowing Superman's limitations before the battle begins. He will use his intelligence to his advantage and then find a way to win.

How? Being smart doesn’t automatically give you this awareness of others. The rules state that he gets basic knowledge and no kryptonite so I don’t see what you are claiming here. He couldn’t use his intelligence to find a way to beat Thanos. However, in no way am I claiming that Tony is not extremely smart.

Furthermore, it can be paired with Jarvis' ability to exposesweaknessess in Iron-Man's opposition, which means that Stark might be able to cripple him with this attack. Friday is the suits new interface and it assists Tony during combat and out of combat. This definitely counters as a relevant weapon because Stark can use Friday to expose weaknesses in Superman.

This doesn’t really apply to Superman as he doesn’t have any particular “soft spots.” What weaknesses could FRIDAY exploit?

Furthermore, the suit can wrap itself around Superman and trap him inside, which would cut off his contact with solar radiation, which means that Superman would not be able to recover from any type of injury that Iron-Man deals to him. Oh, and did I mention that Stark can simply blow up the Iron-Man suit at will? Since Superman doesn't have access to solar radiation, I find it highly unlikely that he would escape from this type of injury unscathed. If you feel otherwise, please show us Superman recovering from an injury without the use of sunlight. Another option for Iron-Man defeating Superman by this method of attack is to simply win by Battlefield Removal. Does Superman have an answer to this?

I’m going to assume that you don’t know much about Superman. The solar radiation has been absorbed in his cells for years. Putting him in a suit would not cut him off. If this were true then Superman would be powerless at night or indoors. In response to your second claim: that’s with the false assumption that his suit could overpower Superman. It simply does not have any feats to support this.

Iron-Man's missles are powerful enough to disintegrate entire tanks! This type of power is suffifient enough to damage Superman since armor piercing ammo has damaged him before e.g. the feats in my opening statement. This type of attack from Iron-Man greatly surpasses that. This means that Superman would have to avoid it or be critically injured, which can simultaneously be paired with Iron-Man's control of his uniform above.

It didn’t damage Thanos at all, who’s best durability feat is tanking punches from the Hulk. Superman already tanked punches from Doomsday who is stronger than Hulk by feats (at least MCU hulk.) I will explain the bullet topic later. And in regard to Iron man’s control of his suit: nothing suggests that his new armor could do that. The reason the other suit could was for the suit to be able to fly in and apply itself to Iron man. Now he has nanotech and this feature is unneeded. Even if he did have it, it would leave him unarmored. This would be a huge mistake and, as you pointed out, Tony is smart and wouldn’t do this.

Now, let's look at how Superman's Heatvision actually compares to Stark's lasers. We'll use some mathematics to come to this determination, but the result might surprise you. So Stark's lasers can generate up to 200-Pettawatts of power, which equals 200,000,000 Gigajoules of energy per-second, which is so much more powerful than Superman's Heat Vision that Iron-Man can literally attack him with this and cut him in half. We also know that Doomsday can harm Superman with his own Heat Vision (which is somewhat more powerful than Superman's since the two faced on a test of strength and Doomsday narrowly won), so it's a foregone conclusion that Iron Man can one-shot with his lasers.

I explained how this is ridiculously inaccurate. Not to mention that your calculation from Superman’s heat vision was from one scenario in Man of Steel. Despite this being him at his weakest, it neglects the fact that Superman can generate more power when pushed. This is seen in his duel with DD (who’s lasers are unquantifiable.) To think that Iron Man could one shot Superman with his lasers is ridiculously unsupported.

As you can see from the GIF to the left, Superman's body is being stressed as his body supports the weight of a Derrick. Furthermore, in the GIF below, you can see that after it fell on top of him, he was actually knocked unconcious, which makes me wonder how durablr Superman even is. The Man of Steel shouldn'tbe pushed to his limits by an object of such small proportion, let alone actually being knocked unconcious. I will include several feats from Iron-Man to demonstrate how durable he is by comparison. So if Superman isn't durable enough to withstand holding (a portion of the weight of the Derrick) the Derrick above his head, how can you argue that he is way stronger than Iron-Man? Who has a comparable feat below:

This is another case in which you leave out a lot of context. Context matters especially when referring to Superman as he gets exponentially stronger. This is one of Superman’s first times he accepts his kryptonian side. At this point he couldn’t even fly. After this he has gotten extremely stronger and more durable.

Iron Man pushing more weight than the Derrick Superman pushed

Based on? You didn’t determine the weight Superman held, much less the weight of this thing. Even if it is heavier, this is more of a feat for his thrusters not his strength. He’s not using these boosters to punch Superman (he could use it to tackle) so I don’t see it’s relevancy. Superman however, is going to be using similar muscular groups to punch, making his feat relevant.

If Superman has to avoid weapon fire from armor piercing rounds, and Iron \-Man can withstand Jericho strikes, ask yourself who is more durable: And be honest with yourself.

Practically all the feats you referred to from Superman were out of context or misinterpreted to support you claims.

Furthermore, Iron-Man was hit by a Jericho strike but he wasn't so much as affected. This occurred in the comic adaption, but it is still completely valid because it covers areas that the films could not.

Does Iron Man have any similar feats in his films? If so, I will accept this.

Now, you can argue that it didn't damage him, but that's not the point. It wouldhave damaged that. The look on his face is telling of his fear of having the building collapse on him, which means that Zod may not have been capable of withstanding that. Zod would have no reason to be fearful unlesshe was in immediate danger.

This is again, taken out of context. Zod is just now coming into his abilities (hence the reason why the building is falling), he does not know what would kill him. So yes I could argue that it didn’t damage him, and that would be relevant when looking at the context of this scene.

This is extremely important to cover because Superman is more of a brawler (and a shitty one at that since he was utterly humiliated by Batman in hand-to-hand combat), as opposed to a trained hand-to-hand combat fighter. The punching force that the Kryptonians can exter is extremely impressive because it can actually create minorshockwaves. However, even this impressive feat pale in comparison to what Iron-Man and Hulk are capable of doing. As you can see in the GIF above, the shockwave that was produced by them was powerful enough to crush the vehicle that was beside them. Oh, and the shockwave that was generated from the power of their punch pushed people over that were a hundred meters away. It's a far more powerful shockwave, and it tells us that Iron Man and Hulk can punch harder than Zod can.

I’m not entirely sure why you keep bringing up the fact that Batman bettered him in h2h, being that Stark is no where near the combatant as Batman. But I do understand the point that you’re trying to make. Now, let’s talk about this shockwave. The shockwave that Hulk and Iron Man created was the result of both of their strength combined. Neither of them are capable of doing anything close to that alone. This is even more irrelevant as his bleeding edge armor is not nearly as strong as his hulkbuster armor. None of Iron Man’s punches generate even a small shockwave, further supporting my point.

Incorrect. This applies to all objects in all circumstances. Pushing is more difficult than pulling is, this is why people have been known to pull airplanes, but remain incapable of pushing that same amount.

I was explaining the actual physics of it. Pushing is more difficult than pulling because it generates more friction. When in the air, there is next to no friction. Whereas on the ice there is friction, as seen by the build up of ice. Your airplane example is correct; but like I said, its harder to pull because it generates more friction. These airplanes are in the same condition of each other. However, all of this is irrelevant. This is no where near Superman’s greatest strength feat, and your feat is more of a feat for Iron Man’s boosters (which I explained is irrelevant for striking.)

Your assertion about Superman pulling the ship throughthe ice is also incorrect, if we look further into it we can see that Superman was pulling the ship ontopof the ice. The snow/ice was simply a build-up of doing so. Furthermore, Iron-Man was in the air, which means that there was nothing to support the weight of the object he was pushing (unlike Superman, who had the ground to help alleviate some of the weight), which makes Iron-Man's feat far more impressive. By conclusion, Iron-Man can lift more than Superman can pull, which would factor into his striking force as well, considering: Iron Man uses his thrusters to increase his striking power

I did not claim that Superman pulled the ship through the ice. I simply stated that the buildup of the ice would generate more friction than if there were no buildup. Also it is incorrect to say that Iron Man had nothing to support the weight, there were three other thrusters on the edges. But I already explained why this feat mostly irrelevant when comparing the two characters. It’s true he can increase his striking force, but not to the same degree as his flight. His striking feats are unimpressive (you are welcome to prove otherwise.)

I disagree. Thanos' armor was irrelevant because Hulk was literally doing nothing but punching in repeatedly in theface. The GIF proves that, and none of it did any lasting damage. However, Iron-Man was able to damage him by increasing his striking power by combining it with his thrusters! I see no reason to think that he couldn't do the same to Superman, who does not have the durability to withstand that level of striking force. He was bothered by the Browning M2, a calibre that Hulk no-sold. What makes you think he could withstand a solid punch from the Bleeding Edge armor?

Are you claiming that Thanos’ armor was not doing its sole purpose? That’s what armor is designed to do, protect the user from damage. It doesn’t matter that he punched him repeatedly, he is a titan on his way to destroy half the population so of course his armor would be much greater than any earth armor. Also, the Russo brothers already confirmed that the drop of blood was the result of everyone who hit him in that area prior to this. This further supports that Iron man could not have done that on his own, making this feat unimpressive and unquantifiable. I will address the bullet claim later. I think that he could tank a solid punch from Iron man because it does not have the feats to support it would hurt him.

A 200 pound man holding his ground against a train. Do you know how loud a Browning M2 is? It would drown out any sound from Superman. Further evidence is not needed because the commentary does not lie. If you feel otherwise, you have to show us why the writers would lie to us.

Hancock wasn’t caught off guard. He tilted his neck and a train is not the same as multiple, concentrated amounts of pressure. I watched the scene, and your post was conveniently cut. Let me show the voters what fully happened:

As you can see, he was caught off guard and when he braced, he was unmoved. This is a movie, if the director’s wanted us to hear Superman we would have. Also, I finally got to listen to this commentary; the writers gave us a simile to further explain what that would feel like (since most of us will hopefully never be shot by that.) Superman’s pain tolerance is extremely high; they didn’t say that it was the equivalent pain of a human getting hit by 60 mph baseballs. They stated that the bullets felt like that to Superman; luckily for him, 60 mph baseballs don’t hurt that much. This is further supported in the fact that he doesn’t even grunt.

Furthermore, being pushed back shows us that Superman does not possesses the strength to hold his ground against .50 calibre ammunition, whereas even the Mark 1 does. Superman also braced himself, but he still couldn't hold his ground. So this debunks your argument about his weight being a factor. Hancock and Iron-Man were able to hold their ground, but a braced Superman was not. Debunking you.

^ Also Iron Man weighs more in that armor, that’s why he wasn’t sent back.

Superman sizing up the Derrick against his own capabilities. Superman definitely knows what can hurt him and what can't, if he didn't, he wouldn't throw himself into fire or attempt to hold a Derrick up in an effort to save lives. According to you, he placed himself in these circumstances not knowing he would survive them or not, well.. this is wrong because we can see Superman sizing up the Derrick. He's trying to determine whether he has the strength to stop it. Therefore he knows what he can do.

Another instance where you disregard context. This is practically the first time he uses his powers to save people, how would he know what he is capable of? Superman is not a character of self-perseverance, so yes, he would do that not knowing if he would survive. Here’s more evidence:

The first panel is what is relevant, as it proves that Superman is a character who sacrifices himself without knowing if he would survive. He looks at the Derrick to see if he’s going to do it or not, not to somehow measure it’s weight and determine if he is physically capable.

A durability downplay? That would be relevant if Nam-Ek wasn't knocked off his ass by the cannons, which he was. He was stunned because he had to crack his neck afterward. This tells us that Superman was intimidated of the cannon fire, and that's why he was forced to escape.

I could address this, but it would be mostly irrelevant as Superman was not hurt by this. Not to mention his durability has increased since. Cracking your neck isn’t really a sign of any relative damage. And he dodged it because he doesn’t know his durability at this point ^

Actually, Nasa has said that the blast of an explosion in outer-space would be different than at ground level, where oxygen remains. Scarlet Witch was still on Sokovia before Vision rescued her, and she showed no signs of running out of oxygen, so this means that your argument is wrong.

It does not remove all the heat, radiation, or force. Yes it affects it, but to what degree? Being on earth does not make the sokovia blast comparable to a nuke. The sokovia blast did not generate heat or radiation. It was just force that blew Iron Man away. Thanos (who’s greatest feat is being slightly stronger than Hulk) was destroying iron man’s armor with punches. Punches that weren’t generating even a small shockwave.

Furthermore, as you can see from the GIF, Sokovia exploded from the top down. Iron Man was directly on the other end of the landmass as it exploded, which it did directly in his face. The quick scene of Iron-Man in his suit, with a concerned look on his face, is intended to show us of the danger he is in. So by conclusion, Iron-Man did withstand a level of explosion comparable to what Superman did in Batman V Superman.

This in no way provides any evidence for what Iron Man took, it was clear in the scene that the blast pushed him away. Or what was left of the blast since he took the edge of the explosion while Superman took the nuke point blank. Unless, for some reason, Thanos punches with greater force than a nuke. Which is highly unsupported, making my claims the more probable ones.

Travel speed is the speed that someone can flyat, whereas combat speed is how quickly they fight in hand-to-hand combat. I'll give you a few examples from comics:

I never claimed otherwise.

As you can see, Thor possesses the flight speed to travel faster than the speed of light with Mjolnir, but he cannot fight that quickly as The Sentry quickly overpowers him. So just because Superman can travel 5x as fast as Iron-Man, it doesn't mean that he fights that much quicker than he does in hand to hand combat. We know he doesn't because Zod only creates minor shockwaves with his punches, so he barely breaks the sound barrier.

I agreed with your first claim. Which is why I showed the feats of Superman’s quick bursts, and compared them to Faora’s. He does not have the h2h skills as Faora, but he has the combat speed

Whereas Iron Man fights at a normal pace, which Superman might as well but he typically blitzes for a tackle or something similar.

This is wrong because an ordinary human being would not be able to react to missle fire from close-range, so we know this is wrong.

This is in no way close-range. And are you claiming that Tony Stark is not portrayed as a human? If not, then how would his suit allow him to perceive things at a slower rate.

This is horrendously wrong because the only way Tony Stark was able to defeat Captain America in hand-to-hand combat was by letting FRIDAY take over and counter Captain America! Friday literally says "Counter-measures ready," before the battle becomes horribly one-sided. So this tells us that she was able to counter Captain America's fighting style in combat, which Stark can also do to Superman since Superman is a brawler.

I’m sure she only told him what to do, not do it for him. But none of us can prove the other so let’s just agree to disagree on that. However, you took my quote out of context here. I was saying that the suit did not have a feature (or at least did not use it) to dodge the missile, making it Stark’s reaction. And Stark can only perceive things at a human rate.

Missles travel at over 1 kilometer per second, which is as fast as a bullet. Are you telling us that ordinary human beings are bullet timers?

I’m saying that, under those conditions, an ordinary human could replicate what Iron Man did. All he did was move one shoulder about a foot backwards, while the missile had to cover a much larger distance. This is further supported by the fact that Tony Stark is human, and his suit does not enable him to perceive things faster.

Actually, my second statement proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Iron-Man's lasers produce many times more energy. Therefore, they are many times more powerful, and if Doomsday's lasers could hurt Superman, what do you reckon something 10x as powerful would do? Superman would literally be sliced in half!

I explained why there is no reasonable way that Iron Man’s lasers are 200 petawatts. His lasers were stronger than Superman’s in that one scene you used to compare the two. Since then, his lasers have gotten stronger and can increase when pushed. Same with Doomsday. So, as of now, Superman’s upper limit heat vision is unquantifiable. Not to mention that the blast did next to no real damage. Here’s the rest of that scene:

As you can see, Superman gets up immediately while unharmed. Even if Iron Man’s lasers were stronger, they wouldn’t do any significant damage to win him the fight. Especially since it would be the strongest thing in his arsenal.

I provided that scene to showcase how good of a hand-to-hand combat fighter Superman is. He's not good at all, he's shit. Lol. Tony would adapt to his fighting pattern and utterly destroy him.

I never doubted Iron Man’s ability to out h2h Superman with this feature of his suit. I stated that he would have to tank Superman’s punches in order to scan, which he can’t based on feats. His suit was getting destroyed by punches that weren’t even generating small shockwaves. I also stated that, even if he were to scan his fighting pattern, it would be ineffective since Iron Man’s punches don’t have the feats to support him hurting Superman. Iron Man’s punches don’t generate any shockwaves while Superman was tanking Zod’s small shockwave punches. And DD’s much bigger shockwaves.

Hm? There is a lot wrong with this, so I'll lay it out in three categories:

  1. Durability: My graph above shows us that Iron-Man and Superman have comparable durability across all areas. Whether it's their lower-end feats or higher-end feats, it doesn't matter: They're comparable. Superman isn't putting Iron-Man down before Iron-Man adapts to his fighting pattern.
  2. Combat Speed: Zod's punches barely broke the sound barrier, whereas Hulk and Iron-Man's were able to destroy the surrounding area. This means their combat speed is relatively the same.
  3. Punching force: Iron Man can push more than Superman can pull, and he can increase his striking force with his thrusters, to the point where his punches surpass the Hulk. He possesses more than enough striking force to K.O Superman, who was knocked unconcious by a falling Derrick.

I addressed all of these separately earlier in this post. So I’m going to try and summarize:

Durability: Iron Man’s suit is damaged by non shockwave punches, Superman tanks shockwave punches.

Combat Speed: In short bursts Superman is faster. As seen in the bullet feat and Faora’s feat. However, in h2h, both fight at relatively same speeds.

Punching force: His punches do not surpass the hulk, even with his thrusters. If this were true, he would be on par with Thanos’ strength. Which, if we look at their fight, is not the case. Iron Man, with the help of his boosters, was able to lift a fourth of that ship. Superman did about 4 times that with the nasa feat and insanely surpasses him with his tectonic plate feat. Iron Man’s punches don’t generate any shock waves, Superman sent a 480 pound man flying at 45 mph (confirmed) with a tap. And as far as that Derrick, he was much weaker at that time. But let’s assume that he wasn’t: he still tanks shockwave punches, while Iron Man does not dish out shockwave punches. It’s pretty obvious that he won’t put Superman down by punching him.

If Thanos didn't immediately try and rip the Arc Reactor from his body, what makes you think Superman would? Even with basicknowledge, no other opponent besides the Winter Soldier has ever been smart enough to try this method of attack, so I doubt that Superman would.

Well Thanos defeated him anyway, so he didn’t need to do that. And I never claimed that he would (I actually claimed that I don’t think he would.) You claimed that he couldn’t, or that it would be ineffective, and I proved you wrong.

This is actually an impressive feat, but I fail to see why it would do any damage to Iron-Man, who has already withstood punches from Thanos. He gets knocked back, so what? He was shot out of the sky from a tank and he got back up like nothing happened.

My point is that he generates that much force with a tap. Sending a 480 pound man flying at 45 mph. He’s able to generate shockwaves with his punches, which Thanos was not doing to Iron Man when he damaged his suit.

Can you see the strain on his face? He's approaching his lifting limit. Whereas Iron Man was able to lift more by increasing his strength by using his thrusters.

There is some strain on his face, while he lands, but this is nowhere near his limit. On screen, he pulls the ship weighing about 25,840. This is 313 times the weight of this feat. Further supporting a point that I will bring up later. OT: you didn’t even give the weight of what Iron Man lifted which is most likely no where near 25,840 tons. Even if it was, Iron Man only lifted 1/4 of it while using his boosters to their fullest. Making his actual strength much lower. So, by these feats alone, Superman outclasses him in strength.

Unless you can show us exactly how he was able to accomplish that, than we can disregard it because it occurred off screen. We don't know what happened, so it classifies as an outlier. Furthermore, it contradicts previously established evidence e.g. Superman approaching his limits by lifting a NASA shuttle over his head.

It doesn’t really matter how he did it. The director’s obviously put it there for a reason (most likely for like of visual effects.) Even if it were to be Superman at his peak limit, it far out stats anything Iron Man could even consider doing. And it does not contradict the NASA shuttle feat since he already pulled much more than that. If anything, it further supports a point I will bring up.

He anticipated the trajectory of the bullets, but that isn't the same as dodging them. Furthermore, he was clipped by them and sent careening into the building beside the road. So it isn't really impressive at the least. Whereas Iron-Man had no time to anticipate the trajectory of the missle that was shot at him, yet he managed to successfully pull himself out of the way.

I can agree with the first claim, but he still moved at blur speed. I explained why Iron Man’s missile feat isn’t impressive either.

  1. Thor withstood the full force of a star.
  2. Hulk withstood weapon fire that Superman could not.
  3. Thanos has nearly indestructible skin.

Yet, Iron-Man has damaged ever single one of them.

He damaged Thor before his Ragnarok buff. He damaged Hulk in a much stronger suit, and Superman did withstand that weapon fire. The damage to Thanos was the result of him and everyone before him, making it an impressive durability feat for Thanos but not an impressive striking feat for Iron Man. Not to mention he only cut Thanos, not really damage him.

Superman had his powers all along. This was the point of the flash-backs as he attempts to understand who he is and why he's on Earth. It isn't a story about Superman unlockingabilities he had all along, it's a story about a man searching for purpose and redemption. Furthermore, Superman was directly in sunlight, and we know how that heals him almost instantly:

I’m going to assume that you don’t know much about Superman, which is fine, it just leads to false claims. This is the point I’ve been referring to. Let me explain: growing up he eventually learned of his kryptonian side, and Clark himself wanted to suppress this side of him. In result, he sets up subconscious barriers keeping him from reaching his full potential. After taking on the role of Superman and finally accepting his alien side, he slowly begins to remove these barriers. Resulting in him exponentially getting more powerful. This is why he can barely hold the Derrick, but later shifts a tectonic plate. It’s also why he gets knocked out by Faora, but later tanks all of Doomsday’s blows. You can deny this, and we can go back and forth, but it won’t lead to anything. Instead think about this, or research this, from an unbiased perspective. Maybe Iron Man could have defeated Superman when he first took up this mantle, but as of Batman v Superman he doesn’t stand a chance.

I already explained the sunlight thing in this post.

What's so impressive about this? Hulk and Iron-Man have already thrown punches way harder than that. The shockwave they caused damaged their surrounding area. That punch from Doomsday did little to their environment.

Addressed in this post.

Hm, no. He was being damaged from Doomsday's Heat Vision, which means that Iron-Man can damage him with his own lasers since they were able to casually cut through a spacecraft e.g. Infinity War, that could withstand reentry.

Addressed in this post. And Superman survived reentry and greater heats.

He didn't tank the nuke. Doomsday did, and Doomsday is an energy-absorber. Furthermore, Superman was at his limits. The radiation in his body was all used up, whereas Iron-Man was able to recover from the Sokovia explosion rather quickly.

I never claimed he tanked it. I claimed that his skin was unpierced from the force/heat. It was the radiation the drained him. Without the radiation he wouldn’t be at his limits. I explained the Sokovia blast.

This is wrong. The heat caused from a nuclear explosion (particularly the heat that you're referring to), only lasts a brief period (less than a second) before it begins to decrease. Therefore you cannot use this to argue that Superman can withstand temperatures far greater than the core of the Sun. Why? Because Doomsdays heat vision was already damaging him. That's a logical inconsistency, and it does not work.

Doomsday’s heat vision is unquantifiable, but it does not reach heats of the core of the sun (neither do Iron Man’s lasers) or else it would disintegrate everything nearby. The heat isn’t what hurt Superman, it was the force. So this isn’t logical inconsistency, especially since Superman gets right back up unharmed.

This is Pre-Justice League. Superman does not have freeze breath here or presurrized breath. So nothing in this paragraph needs to be addressed. You should read this Challenge-A-Viner more thoroughly.

But you claimed here that Superman has had his powers all along:

Superman had his powers all along. This was the point of the flash-backs as he attempts to understand who he is and why he's on Earth. It isn't a story about Superman unlockingabilities he had all along, it's a story about a man searching for purpose and redemption.

So not only did you contradict yourself, but this further supports my point that Superman exponentially gets more powerful. Similar to his flight, which he couldn’t originally do. Now I’m sure you will claim that the resurrection gave him these powers, but it wouldn’t make sense. If he had just received these powers, then how did he know exactly how to use them? All his other powers took practice.

Conclusion:

Most of the feats you used were either from a weaker period of Superman, or were taken out of context in attempt to downplay Superman. As I’ve shown, Superman is faster, more durable, and much stronger. To the point where Iron Man is completely overpowered here.

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#44 Edited by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio

Post is up. Also, quote that ^ to tag.

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#46 Posted by Syntix (519 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag please

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#47 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting is now open. Keep in mind that in order to vote, you will need to post an in-depth analysis of who you think won, and why. Failure to comply with this will result in your vote not being tallied.

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#48 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
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#49 Posted by AvengersAsssemb (449 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by BOC (1123 posts) - - Show Bio
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