CaV: Homelander (Subline) vs Superboy (D4B)

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The Boys' Homelander (@subline)

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Titans' Superboy

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#5 JaylinFreeman  Online

Please, TAEP.

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tag after the wank

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#8  Edited By death4bunnies
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Subject 13, Conner, Superboy, is a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor, grown at Cadmas labs. He broke free and recused a kryptonian dog named Krypto. He is a young clone, but he came programed with the combined epigenetic knowledge of Lex Luthor and Superman. After breaking fee from Cadmas wondered the city for a time until he happened across Robin (Todd) who was thrown out a window. He joined the Titans. He was reprogramed by Cadmas at some point, and had a fight with the titans, but broke free of Cadmas mind control for good(hopefully) with Ravens help.

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Superboys Superior Skills.

Superboy has a surprising level of skill for such a young clone, but this is attributed to latent memories from Lex and Clark.

Conner is able to experience memories from both Superman and Lex Luthor. For example, he experienced one of Lex's memories of his father beating him when a shop owner got mad at Conner for taking a shirt without paying for it, and one of Superman's memories of a field in Kansas when he saw a picture of a field on a truck.

He has a surprising knowledge on a number of subjects(like complex nuclear mechanics)and beat a game Beast Boy said no one was ever able to beat...He used his speed for this video Game feat, but more importantly he said, "I dont know its like something just took over in side me, and I knew how to beat him"

Just keep this latent skill set in mind when you watch Conner fight, because hes definitely proficient in utilizing his powers.

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Superboys Superior Stats.

This is where the debate gets settled, in the feats.

I will show that Superboy has superior feats in all categories, and ill quantify his combat speed and strength.

Speed:

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A quantifiable mach 3.5 bullet from a assault rifle, not only did Connor react to it, he moves 10 times the distance as the bullet in the same amount of time.. I will show the distance and time frame by frame in post 2.

Shoots then catches bullet,, then throws it into a guys head.

Bullet proof, blur speed, wall level tackle.

Use of combat speed.

Striking:

Punches clean through a heavy bag low effort.

2 shots Beastboys tiger form

Beats Donna Troy in H2H combat.

Strength:

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This reenforced door has a "no one can open it but you statement" and also houses the failed cadmas clones...

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Thats not including the weight of the door, just the amount of force to break the hinges.

Rip off car door throws into into another car.

Casually pushes over another reenforced door.

Bends a gun in half.

Throws cop 100+ feet.

Durability:

A fall from near the middle of a skyscraper does nothing to him.

No sells a rifle bash

Tanked hits from Wondergirl and Starfire.

Is healed by Starfires sun level radiation

Other Powers:

Heat Vision.

Superbreath.

Xray and telescopic vision.

Superjump

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Initial thoughts.

Homelander is not as fast, strong or as skilled as Connor from what ive seen.

In fact I expect Homelander to move about as slow as the bullet do inside Connors perception.

I dont think Homelander has many feats and the ones ive seen are lack luster, im interested see how many categories Homelands has zero feats in...like striking or strength.

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#10  Edited By BladeOfFury
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#12 geekryan  Online

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#15  Edited By subline

Post #1

"Stay the f*ck back or I'll laser you Goddamnit!"

Intro

Homelander (John - last name Unknown) was subject to Vought's Compound V, he was raised in a lab by Doctors who feared him, spending his entire life learning how to use his Powers. Since then, Homelander has went on to become the leader of The Seven, and be regarded as the greatest Supe to ever live. He is ruthless and feared by pretty much every member of The Seven, for good reason.

Most Powerful Supe Alive:

Just for scaling purposes later in this post I'll provide evidence now of Homelander being the greatest Hero on the planet:

Stated as the
Stated as the "greatest superhero alive" on his Fact File
Vogelbaum states he forged Homelander into the strongest man in the World.
Vogelbaum states he forged Homelander into the strongest man in the World.
Stormfront states that Homelander is the perfect supe, and what Vought had aspired to create. Also states that he would be the man to lead the Supe Army.
Stormfront states that Homelander is the perfect supe, and what Vought had aspired to create. Also states that he would be the man to lead the Supe Army.

I shouldn't have to point this out though, if anyone has actually seen the show they'll know this already. Homelander is the Leader of the Seven, and is feared by pretty much every member to the point where no one has even considered taking him on.

Speed

I'm not gonna argue that Homelander is faster than Superboy, because going by high ends, he's not. But rather I'll be arguing the lack of relevance of the main showing you provided.

A quantifiable mach 3.5 bullet from a assault rifle, not only did Connor react to it, he moves 10 times the distance as the bullet in the same amount of time.. I will show the distance and time frame by frame in post 2.

First off, a slight correction, IMFDB states that the assault rifles used were M4A1's, which has a muzzle velocity of 910m/s, or Mach 2.7. So Mach 3.6 is highball.

Regardless, this does put Connor's movement speed in this scene at Mach 27. But this only works against you, for a reason I'll explain why in the Combat Showings section.

1. Shoots then catches bullet,, then throws it into a guys head.

2. Bullet proof, blur speed, wall level tackle.

3. Use of combat speed.

Here we have 3 feats that are either around Mach 1 or below. Definitely low end for either character here:

Homelander was fast enough to save Butcher from this explosion, as stated in S2, upwards of 30lbs was used, so at least 13.6kg. Butcher himself was about 3 meters away from the C4, plugging these values into this calculator, the arrival time of the explosion shockwave is 80ms, or 0.0008 seconds.

Average Velocity = Distance / Arrival Time = 3 / 0.0008 = 3750m/s (Mach 11). Of course though, I consulted with ComicVine's physics expert - NWName, for these calculations.

This is considerably better than any of those three feats.

Combat Skill

Feats You Posted

1. Superboy beating the Video Game

Not sure what you're seeing here, when you have Super Speed, beating any game is going to be a piece of cake. All the statement you provided really suggests is that Superboy has vague memories of being in combat, but regardless it's quite clear the feat really boils down to Super Speed, and is something Homelander can definitely replicate (I'll get to his Speed Feats later).

2. Beating up Cadmus Soldiers

Nothing impressive, once again. There's nothing the Soldiers can really do here, as Superboy just takes the attacks without issue:

  • Connor tanks multiple gunshots
  • Connor breathes in the Noxious Gas
  • Connor doesn't bother to dodge an RPG blast

If anything, him taking so many attacks is more careless than anything, as for beating up the Soldiers themselves it's hardly impressive when he can practically statue them.

Connor's Actual Combat Showings

Let's look at a legit fight, where he's not playing a video game or going up against cannon fodder, the fight against the Titans in 2x13 (0:25 - 2:00).

In the highlighted section of the fight, Superboy takes on Wonder Girl, Starfire, Hawk and Dove.

First, he goes up against Wonder Girl and gets hit a bunch of times. Now you could just argue that Donna is simply that fast, and this is just a case of the fight being visually slow, but I can assure this is not the case. In this scene Donna is unable to save Aqualad from a Mach 2.45 bullet (1, 2), you could argue that Donna didn't see the bullet, and given it's supersonic she couldn't have heard it before it reaches them, but given that Aqualad hears it this clearly isn't something the writers considered.

Had Superboy been here (who you're claiming is Mach 27), he'd have no problem statuing that bullet. So clearly Donna is a tier below him, in speed.

Right after that, he lets Starfire and Hawk land attacks on him, Starfire who was fodderized by Donna and Hawk who's just a peak human.

Right after this, he burns himself with Heat Vision via Dove reflecting it back at him in an extremely telegraphed and obvious way.

As established earlier Homelander himself is North of Mach 10, significantly faster than any of these characters

Going by his only real fight against Established Opponents, Superboy will fight carelessly like he did here, Homelander will land hits against him.

Homelander's Strength / Striking

Strength:

I'll admit, Superboy has the advantage here, though I don't deem this category anything significant. Striking feats / durability feats are what will matter considering the fighting styles of these 2 characters. So I won't waste time on this section because it lacks any relevance to my argument.

Striking Power:

Now, on to Homelander's striking power? Does he hit hard enough to put down Superboy? Absolutely, Superboy is a glass cannon for the tier he's supposed to be at.

Durability:

1. A fall from near the middle of a skyscraper does nothing to him.

2. No sells a rifle bash

3. Tanked hits from Wondergirl and Starfire.

4. Is healed by Starfires sun level radiation

1. Yeah this is a super soldier level feat, nowhere near enough to take Homelander's hits (which I'll get into soon).

2. Taking a strike from a standard soldier is really not anything to even be mentioned for a supposed high tier.

3. You've posted no striking feats for either of these characters, so I'll dismiss this for now.

4. This is pretty good, Homelander's HV won't really do much. But after Superboy tanks it Homelander will instantly switch up his strategy and go for physical attacks.

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In the above showing, Homelander casually swats open an airplane door, according to this site, you'd need to exert 24,000lbs on the door to open it. That's the equivalent of 11 tons of force, that Homelander casually exerted with a quick strike. This is more than enough to one shot Superboy going by the 3 durability feats you've posted.

Homelander's Durability

Unlike Superboy, who is pretty much a glass cannon. Homelander is extremely durable going by what is intended. First off, take a look at this:

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Here, Stormfront is stated to be able to fling "anything lighter than a 747 out of her path", a 747 being a Boeing 747 Airliner, which has a weight of 184 tons. Considering characters like Kimiko have been able to take Stormfront's Lightning and recover within a minute or two, Homelander (who is the most powerful Hero Vought has) would obviously take it with much less damage.

Now let's take a look at Superboy's damage output - his striking feats, I won't be looking at Strength here as going by Superboy's fight scenes he prefers to use strikes rather than grappling in combat.

Striking:

1. Punches clean through a heavy bag low effort.

2. 2 shots Beastboys tiger form

3. Beats Donna Troy in H2H combat.

1. This is pretty a Super Soldier level feat, even characters like Maeve can no sell a collision from a truck, this will do nothing.

2. ...And how durable is Beast Boy, exactly?

3. Once again, how durable is Donna Troy? You haven't posted any feats.

As it currently stands, Superboy's strikes will pretty much be ignored by Homelander, if he does attempt to utilize his 176 Ton Strength (going by your calc) in a grapple, Homelander isn't in apparent danger given the Stormfront scaling presented. Though this would be out of character for Superboy anyway.

Conclusion

Going by actual combat showings, Superboy's carelessness will lead to him getting struck like he did against Wonder Girl, Starfire and Hawk, given his complete lack of durability showings a single strike will suffice in putting him down. You might say the opposite also applies, but the difference is that Superboy's striking feats are pathetically bad, while Homelander's durability is quite impressive going by the perfectly applicable scaling he has. So he can afford to get hit, as it'll do little to no damage.

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No Caption Provided

Speed

I'm not gonna argue that Homelander is faster than Superboy, because going by high ends, he's not. But rather I'll be arguing the lack of relevance of the main showing you provided.

First off, a slight correction, IMFDB states that the assault rifles used were M4A1's, which has a muzzle velocity of 910m/s, or Mach 2.7. So Mach 3.6 is highball.

Im cool with mach 27, but there is some variance on bullet speed depending on bullet type and muzzle length so this is a bit of a lowball.....Makes Connor twice as fast as Homelanders best.

Regardless, this does put Connor's movement speed in this scene at Mach 27. But this only works against you, for a reason I'll explain why in the Combat Showings section.

1. Shoots then catches bullet,, then throws it into a guys head.

2. Bullet proof, blur speed, wall level tackle.

3. Use of combat speed.

Here we have 3 feats that are either around Mach 1 or below. Definitely low end for either character here:

Id guess that the handgun feat is better than Homelanders next best feat by double.

Homelander was fast enough to save Butcher from this explosion, as stated in S2, upwards of 30lbs was used, so at least 13.6kg. Butcher himself was about 3 meters away from the C4, plugging these values into this calculator, the arrival time of the explosion shockwave is 80ms, or 0.0008 seconds.

Average Velocity = Distance / Arrival Time = 3 / 0.0008 = 3750m/s (Mach 11).

I have a bunch of problems with this feat ^^, what are we saying Homlander did here? Carry Bucker and the baby away? He could of just Yeeted Sitwell out the window to save a bit of time..... IDK even if we accept this offscreen feat Connor is still twice as fast as Homelander(2.5x faster actually) and Connors speed is true combat speed not just a bunch of fast flight along with a offscreen questionable feat.

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Combat Skill

Wow did you get a lot wrong here.

First off the showings of epigenetic skill are very important, just having the experience of Lex and Superman to draw off is a clear advantage against Homelander who's never been in a fight.

Lets look at this crazy Donna lowball.

First, he goes up against Wonder Girl and gets hit a bunch of times. Now you could just argue that Donna is simply that fast, and this is just a case of the fight being visually slow, but I can assure this is not the case. In this scene Donna is unable to save Aqualad from a Mach 2.45 bullet (1, 2), you could argue that Donna didn't see the bullet, and given it's supersonic she couldn't have heard it before it reaches them, but given that Aqualad hears it this clearly isn't something the writers considered.

Unable to see the bullet?

She was definitely aware of the bullet in both angles that we have on Aqualads death.

We have angle number one that you showed.

No Caption Provided

Then 3 episodes later we see another angle on the shot, and its explained in dialogue that Aqualad saved Jillian the Amazon lady.

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In both of these videos Donna is very aware of the shot, tracks moving her head as its shot...That wasnt Donna failing to react that was Aqualad jumping infant of a bullet that wasnt going to hit either of them last second.

We know Donna has enhanced speed from the gifs above and she show it off in the show.

Blur speed run.

Another DCU Amazon cuts bullet out of the air with shuriken.

Not only does Donna have the speed intent to contend with Conner, but she is extremely skilled, shes trained with WonderWoman since she was a young girl, and has went on JL missions with WW and Batman.

Conner being able to show that skill against Donna is a feat for him, and again Homelander hasn't had a fight in his life that im aware of, Ive shown Connor blocking, throwing knees, and decent h2h skills, he can compete with Donna in skill because of epigenetic knowledge, thats a showing far above Homelanders skill.

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Homelander's Strength / Striking

You said

Strength:

I'll admit, Superboy has the advantage here, though I don't deem this category anything significant. Striking feats / durability feats are what will matter considering the fighting styles of these 2 characters. So I won't waste time on this section because it lacks any relevance to my argument.

I disagree I think raw strength definitely plays a role...As my opponent conceded raw strength it should be assumed Superboy will win any grapple/wrestling bouts.

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I dont think homelanders strike on that airplane door was very visually impressive.

In the above showing, Homelander casually swats open an airplane door, according to this site, you'd need to exert 24,000lbs on the door to open it. That's the equivalent of 11 tons of force, that Homelander casually exerted with a quick strike. This is more than enough to one shot Superboy going by the 3 durability feats you've posted.

Donna has striking feats above that pretty easily I think

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Homlanders airplane door is far below Donnas fire hydrant bust....You said 24,000lbs for the airplane door.

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Donna breaks at least a square inch of Iron with that kick.(im guessing if I look up a fire hydrant it will be more than a square inch).... 78,300 lbs beats Hollanders 24,000 lbs feat by triple.....So Connor is more durable by triple based of the feats presented.

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Homelander's Durability

Unlike Superboy, who is pretty much a glass cannon. Homelander is extremely durable going by what is intended. First off, take a look at this

Superboy isnt a glass cannon as demonstrated in the catagory above Donna strikes with 70,000 lbs of force casually and Superboy tanked her hits..... Superboy also doesnt have lowends like this.

Homelander gets crushed by a bus and a bunch of concrete

Considering characters like Kimiko have been able to take Stormfront's Lightning and recover within a minute or two, Homelander (who is the most powerful Hero Vought has) would obviously take it with much less damage.

Humans also took storefronts lightning, and I dont remember Homlander tanking lightning, I find this whole scaling thing crazy just because hes the top hero doesnt mean he carries the powers everyone else does... Saying hes mauve and Kimiko and Stormfront all rolled into one just seems like a slippery slope, like whats next hes the best hero so he can pop heads like that other sup did?

Anyway I dont think even Kamiko scaling is going to save Homalander from superior speed/strength and striking.

Now let's take a look at Superboy's damage output - his striking feats, I won't be looking at Strength here as going by Superboy's fight scenes he prefers to use strikes rather than grappling in combat.

Superboy definitely uses grappling in combat.

No Caption Provided

Homelander has shown no feats that proves he can tank striking from a faster, stronger and more skilled opponent, in fact the only feat you brought up 'stormfront lightning scaling' relies on a statement about her lightning on a amazon graphic, then scaling homelander to kamiko, and disregarding that Stromfronts lightning in the same scene didnt harm humans.

1. Punches clean through a heavy bag low effort.

1. This is pretty a Super Soldier level feat, even characters like Maeve can no sell a collision from a truck, this will do nothing.

Holy moly you are underrating this feat.

No Caption Provided

This is way way more force than a 50 cal in a very quantifiable way.... For over a hundred years soldiers have protected them selves from gunfire with sand bags

2 Sandbags stop a 50cal dead in its tracks.

No Caption Provided

In this video....How many sand bags does it take to stop a 50 cal.... the bullet doesnt exit the second sandbag.

Not only does Superboy punch clean through a sand bag thats roughly the size of the 2 above put together, but he does it super casually, and it should be a lot harder to push a hand through a sandbag like that then a bullet.

No Caption Provided

Just the surface area of the fist alone is like 4x the size of the bullet and not pointy....I personally think superboy hitting with 4x the force of a 50 cal is pretty family quantified here.....and again that was a very casual punch.

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As to beast boy I just think the feat is visually impressive, beast boy doesnt really have any feats beyond this fight.

No Caption Provided

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Conclusion.

Faster, more durable, more skilled, stronger, strikes harder.

Connor is way faster and stronger than Homelander by your own concessions.

He is definitely more durable and more skilled by feats, fighting Donna Troy proves that, throwing 'superman punches', actively blocking, throwing knees, and using his speed in combat proves that, the dialogue explaining Connors epigenetic knowledge proves that.

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#19  Edited By StormShadow_X

That's some speedster posting

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huh, didnt know inches of steel were that strong, really puts starlights casual 6 inch blast into perspective

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Interesting...