CaV: Grey Hulk (cosmic) vs Pitt (wyldsong) VOTING!!!

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Wyldsong

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#51  Edited By Wyldsong

@wyldsong said:

@cosmicallyaware1: I understand and am looking forward to it bro=)

LMFAOOOOO..................seriously, I haven't forgotten about this. Reply is almost finished!!!!

Lol, I understand my friend. I am awaiting the response=)

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cosmicallyaware1

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@wyldsong: my brother. my response will be up no later than 48 hours. Need to wrap this up, my bad. I have not forgotten lol.......

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Wyldsong

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@wyldsong: my brother. my response will be up no later than 48 hours. Need to wrap this up, my bad. I have not forgotten lol.......

Again, no worries bro. I have been pretty scarce as of late due to work.

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#54  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@wyldsong: well then. It's about time huh? my bad. without further procrastination..........here's the next installment!

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Dang that ring girl tho...........

anyway..............moving on,

Round 4!!

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alrighty then, heh. time to really begin to finish this off as I do not want to run in circles, and focus on the key information presented. It's time to visit Rebuttal and Counter town once again!

Tanking that Damage....Part 2:

One thing I can say is that I have shown people around Pitt’s level of strength and durability taking damage from his strikes. The issue for you and everyone else is that they are all literally unknowns to you guys. But you also need to remember Pitt’s claws, and their ability to hurt Invincible level characters. I’d say striking power isn't an issue, but I will get into that in a bit

I don't doubt that PITT is one tough hombre, that's not in question. As we have discussed Joe's striking power, it's important to understand that it's exponentially different as the battle will rage on.

The main thing to understand here and factor in, is the issue of Fixit's intelligence and cunning. He was able to access Banner's intelligence to rebuild complex machinery to drain gamma radiation from Rich Jones Hulk and transfer bad into Sterns to make him the Leader again. Fixit is smart, nasty, and knows how to use that to his advantage.

A great illustration of Fixit using his intelligence and crafty fighting skills against an opponent would be Incredible Hulk 350 vs. an amped mutated Ben Grimm ("pineapple" incarnation)

He was able to use his cunning to pull off a win and KO a stronger more durable opponent. Great example of being resourceful and striking power. PITT is going up a entirely different beast here my friend.......

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Much like Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier, pain has always amped Pitt up

but his rate of gain should be able to match that of Joe’s. What I will say is that Joe can take some punishment. Which is good, because Pitt can most definitely dish out some punishment

meh, he may or may not be able to match the rate of anger-to-strength ratio. Hulk is notorious for that. But it sure is a possibility.

Yes, 'ol Joe sure can take some punishment, there really hasn't been very much that has put him down, and if so for very long. I totally understand that PITT can dish it out, that is what makes this such a good match between these powerhouses.

I will point out that the level of punishment Joe has taken is substantial. He has had his vital organs gutted and instantly regened (Wolverine), easily tanked multitudes of explosives at point blank range, held up to blasts from Dr.Doom and the High Evolutionary at point lank range, taken Cyclop's Optic Blasts at point blank range no worse for the wear, and even taken the punishment of a supernatural variety (against the minion Ghoul from Satanish). He has shown variety all across the board, which shows amazing versatility.

Scans illustrate (just a few): 1.tanking Sharon Ventura Thing's strikes 2.Dr.Doom's blasts/output 3.High Evo blast 4.Cyclops blast point blank 5.Artillery Fire

and now onto the Thunderclapreal quick:

It is a good and unique offensive tool. I won’t argue, nor deny that. In the end though, I don’t really see it doing any lasting damage to Pitt, at least not enough to make a major amount of difference here.

Here's the thing about the Thunderclap.....it has been shown to have varied effects on opponents. It has shown great effect when used by Savage Mindless Hulk, and lesser degrees by Joe. Even though it has been stated by Joe himself that he just slightly below 'Ol Greenskin in strength level.....the Thunderclap is inconsistent. What I will say about it here is it may be a deciding factor in a tie-breaker or used as a major distraction long enough for Joe to gain a serious edge.

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So it's debatable. Do I see the Thunderclap doing any significant damage to PITT? nah..............but it will possibly give Joe an upperhand

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I guess now is as good a time as any to move into Project Sunspot, and the durability gauntlet...

Project Sunspot is basically a satellite weapon that was created to destroy fortified undergound bunkers. It is capable of completely incinerating everything within a nice neat 100 meter radius, and creating a giant crater, which was the better alternative to deal with Pitt, as opposed to setting off a nuke and having to deal with the fallout and such. Here they are talking about it specifically:

Here, you will see them set the device off, and you’ll see the crater that is left

Bear in mind, that blast completely incinerated the armored mech troops that were fighting Pitt prior to them setting it off. Here you’ll see Pitt coming out, unharmed, with the exclusion of the loss of some skin (which I have already demonstrated is less durable than the actual musculature below)

that's impressive indeed. Very nice.

Only thing I have in contention to that feat would be.......................Hulk surviving the Gamma Bomb explosion that lead into his time in Vegas as Joe Fixit.

Hulk was at point blank ground zero epicenter when the bomb went off, and he survived just fine. The blast also had quite destructive capabilities as it decimated the town of Middletown, Arizona.

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Is it arguable to say that there is some bias considering the nature of the bomb (Gamma) being of the same source that gave Hulk his powers and therefore providing some resilience? Yes. However the destructive nature cannot be denied as look what it did to others (such as inanimate objects and beings) involved. All in all I say it's one heck of a feat and a fair counter point to the example that you used mate.

Moving on.............

The females are all robots/androids that were built to deal with Pitt. So, let’s break it down:

1) He tanks the rocket strikes with no issues.

2) He dives into an "atomized molecular acid", and only loses some skin.

3) The “flying ants” with their energy discharges into his central nervous system didn't slow him down or really affect him.

4) And the creature that was built from his own DNA couldn’t stop him (it punctured him with claws, which he healed, and the teeth did nothing to him or he healed up fast enough that it didn’t seem to really do anything)

Good point. I would like to use a example that relates to Hulk in a similar fashion (of a specific foes designed to deal solely with our characters):

The Leader and the Hulkbusters. They were designed specifically to tackle Hulk.

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let me use similar points as you used my friend.....

1.) Hulk has tanked Hulkbusters tech attacks that were specifically designed for him.

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2.) He was able to stop/halt the process of Half-Life draining his gamma energy and get a win

3.) None of the Leader's tech really did anything to him of substantial damage. He easily trashed Rock and Redeemer tech....and this is Joe that I'm talking about here, not the Green variation

4.) As far as tanking a foe from his own DNA? well Joe has stood against other Gamma irradiated foes, and to me, most notably was the thrashing he gave Rick Jones Hulk version.

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He has also stood up to other aspects of his own personality in the mental realm (I'm referring to the pre-merging of personalities by Samson)

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and lastly in this category:

So really, the absolute weakest portion of Pitt is the skin, which is really inconsistent throughout the series regardless. I mean, I love me some Pitt comics…but they really needed to make up their mind on the skin. Other than that, he tanks damage like a champ, and he definitely excels at tanking the kind of damage that Joe dishes out

hulk skin comparison.............I mean Joe's skin has proven to be bullet proof, explosive proof, yada yada yet has been pierced by Adamantium and the Ghoul's supernatural claws. Meh. It's relevant that if he is damages somehow.....how fast his cells instantly repair the damage.

close category.

"That Empathic Bizzness" Handled

Remember though, this isn't mind control. Being able to read surface thoughts, and controlling someone are two different things. Mind control is an active intrusion, with the intent to override neural functions, and take complete control of the body, which is a bit different than just reading someone's surface thoughts. As for the empathic ability, that is less about control, and more about affecting an emotional state. Hulk’s get angry pretty easily, and I don’t think there is any denying that. Amping his anger with an empathic ability? Sounds like that should be fairly easy to accomplish

Brother, I am not entirely sure that amping someones anger that amps his strength is a sound tactic. I get the contention point that it will affect Joe's cunning and reasoning, but that never really has been that plausible as a tactic. He has still kept a sound head when angered throughout the vast majority of his showings. If anything it adds to his drive to win and makes him even more relentless and resilient.

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as far as the difference between direct mind control and empathetic influence..............it really matters not IMO. Hulk has proven resistant to both. I have shown examples of mind control not working, and even examples of influence being ineffective (especially when used by the Leader).

Another example that I would like to point out was when Eros/Starfox tried his Empathy influencing abilities against Hulk and completely failed. Yes, it was Savage/Mindless Hulk incarnation and that is taken into consideration. However the point here is that these type of tactics have never truly been effective against Hulk.

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To clarify though, I am not stating Pitt is going to start slinging mental attacks, and try for mental domination. His abilities in this arena are simply reading surface thoughts, locking onto and tracking foes, and the empathic bit (making foes angrier and sloppier in combat).

Ok, I understand. I feel it's a far stretch and not sure entirely plausible though.

And that would be the big point of him using it, to make him madder and sloppier, because as you have said:

“definitely something to be wary of on my part, you are correct on Joe's greatest asset being his intellectual capacity in fighting prowess.”

I get it. his craftiness truly is what sets him apart.......

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Dem Claws!

“I will absolutely agree that PITT will do some damage with those claws. No doubt about that. The good thing is that Hulk can take the damage.”

No doubt about that, I am 100% on board with the fact that Hulk can tank major damage, and can heal some major damage.

“granted PITT's claws are larger so they would affect a larger body area, yet they surely can't be stronger than Adamantium...so regardless I feel that the end result is all the same............”

Let’s also factor in that Wolvie isn't packing Pitt’s levels of strength, and Pitt has hurt some pretty darn durable types with those claws (like the evil Invincible).

alright then, let me close this category out as I do not want to continually repeat myself. On this subject.........

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and that pretty much seals that for now. I have a couple more subjects to tackle, but I wanted to get a post up in here..............

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cosmicallyaware1

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@wyldsong: let's wrap this up brother. I don't want to run in circles, and I know you said that you probably only have enough for one more post, which is about the same with me. closing argument and final rebuttals?

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Wyldsong

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@wyldsong: let's wrap this up brother. I don't want to run in circles, and I know you said that you probably only have enough for one more post, which is about the same with me. closing argument and final rebuttals?

Sorry my friend, been working a lot with PC upgrades in between, so I have not had a fully functional machine. I will work up the post between today and tomorrow my friend. But yeah, I have enough scans for the last post, then we can do final rebuttals and close it out.

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Wyldsong

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@cosmicallyaware1: Halfway through the post. Been a busy 911 day, so I did not get as much finished as I had hoped. I am working away on it brother man.

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@wyldsong said:

@cosmicallyaware1: Halfway through the post. Been a busy 911 day, so I did not get as much finished as I had hoped. I am working away on it brother man.

cool bro. I totally know what it's like when duty calls...........

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NeonGameWave

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Wow... What an awesome debate! Pitt is an underrated character, I have his crossover comics with Jackie and its cool to see him in a CaV :) Maybe one day we`ll see Firebreather or Bigby in a CaV as well! I also really enjoyed the Pitt and Hulk crossover it had really strong moments present throughout

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#61  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@neongamewave:

Wow... What an awesome debate!

thanks man. we aim to please....

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Wyldsong

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#62  Edited By Wyldsong

@cosmicallyaware1: Here we go, here we go, here we go…I am going to start with some rebuttals and counters, and then we will get into some new stuff.

By the way...I think you bumped us up a round from where we were...you responded to the round 3 post...but ah well...guess I'll use it as an excuse to use a round 5 ring girl and call it a day=)

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Tanking that Damage…Revisited…

“it's important to understand that it's exponentially different as the battle will rage on.”

Well, good thing I have shown him fighting a Hulk=)

Seriously though, he has fought people with base strength levels higher than Joe, and tanked that damage just fine. One thing he excels in dealing with and healing from is blunt force damage, which is part and parcel of Joe’s attacks. So while Joe may become stronger as the battle rages on, Pitt will most definitely be able to keep pace and secure the win.

“Fixit is smart, nasty, and knows how to use that to his advantage.”

And Pitt is a trained warrior and assassin, who has lead armies. He has fought highly trained, skilled and intelligent warriors and come out on top. Not to mention, as shown in previous scans, he uses the terrain to his advantage quite often (like with his digging abilities). While the scan of taking down Thing using his wiles and terrain is impressive, those tactics won’t work very well on Pitt, who can track Joe with his aggression lock. Joe won’t be able to hide and ambush him, and Pitt most definitely will be able to do so if needed.

“he may or may not be able to match the rate of anger-to-strength ratio”

Again though, he does start at a higher base than Joe, and by the estimation of his creator and an exceedingly well known Hulk scribe, he most assuredly can.

“He has shown variety all across the board, which shows amazing versatility.”

I think their healing and damage tanking ability is fairly close, though Pitt’s skin is portrayed a bit inconsistently but the overall effect is the same irregardless. They can each tank an insane amount of damage and keep on trucking. Spaceship destroying explosions, disintegration blasts, soul affecting attacks, blunt force trauma, the Project Sunspot blast, hits from high level tonners, magic weapons, and so on, I’d have to say Pitt has pretty impressive resume himself in that department.

“So it's debatable. Do I see the Thunderclap doing any significant damage to PITT? nah..............but it will possibly give Joe an upperhand”

I’ll agree it’s debatable, but with the damage Pitt has tanked, I just don’t see it being a game changer=)

“However the destructive nature cannot be denied as look what it did to others (such as inanimate objects and beings) involved. All in all I say it's one heck of a feat and a fair counter point to the example that you used mate.”

While I agree it is destructive, and definitely agree it affected a large area, I don’t know if it exactly packs the same kind of punch. Remember that Project Sunspot is a more focused attack that was created to destroy fortified underground bunkers. In the process, it doesn’t just decimate an area, it incinerates everything in the area completely (including the armored mechs built to deal with Pitt). So while Joe’s feat is impressive, I am not convinced it is on the same level as the Project Sunspot attack.

Think of it like an ant, walking under the light of the sun, with no issues, until that little bastard kid comes out with a magnifying glass, focusing the light to create a more destructive and powerful effect.

“close category”

No arguments from me on the further points you made there. I agree that it is close indeed.

Empathic Bizzness Review…

"Brother, I am not entirely sure that amping someones anger that amps his strength is a sound tactic"

Well, this is a key point that we have to disagree on. One of Joe's biggest selling points is his craftiness and wiliness. Anything that can affect that, in large part, is a game changer. Considering Peter David and Dale Keown each have Pitt pegged as being able to keep up with a green Hulk and his increasing anger throughout the fight, then I don't see an issue with it. Couple that with the fact that Pitt has faced others with a higher base strength and been able to keep up with and match them, it shouldn't be a major issue.

That being said, Joe is still a Hulk, and this will still be a tough fight irregardless, so I don't want to sound dismissive of him and the point overall. Making a Hulk angry is a dangerous gambit for most, but for Pitt, I don't see it being a major problem.

"If anything it adds to his drive to win and makes him even more relentless and resilient"

And if we were talking about a natural progression of his anger throughout the fight, I might agree, but as is, this isn't natural, and is an ability designed to implement and bring about irrational anger and behavior. There is a rational and irrational side to anger and behavior, and Pitt doesn't enhance the rational side of things.

"as far as the difference between direct mind control and empathetic influence..............it really matters not IMO. Hulk has proven resistant to both."

Actually, I think it matters quite a bit. Any empathic resistance I have seen has been when people have tried to calm him down. A failure to calm down a Hulk and do it in such a manner where he is aware of it...yeah, I see it failing big time. Messing with his already enormous anger issues to cloud his judgement? There are pretty big differences between telepathic and empathic abilities. Not to mention, even Joe has struggled with direct psychic assaults:

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Now, I don't show that to downplay Joe, and if this were a pure, direct psychic attack, I might still err on the side of Joe, but this is an empathic ability, that Pitt does not advertise while he does it, and it plays on Hulk's massive anger issues, and enhancing them to the point of being irrational. I have seen no evidence that Hulk can resist such a thing.

Review of Dem Claws...

And while healing from Wolvie's claws is impressive, Wolvie still isn't packing Pitt levels of strength, and those claws are just tiny in comparison to Pitt's=)

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Last of the Big Four

I had four big names to bring to this little discussion, so I guess it is about time that we finish off the last two of those names. We are going way back into the Image Comics time machine for this one…but let’s talk about Thomas John McCall, aka…

Badrock

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Badrock is 8 feet and 1800 pounds of pure badassery. He was trained by the government in most forms of martial arts and weaponry. His skin is pretty much invulnerable:

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He has been known to hit the ground so hard it feels like an earthquake:

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He is a class 100 through and through in the strength department:

Plus he has gone toe to toe with some heavy hitters like Violator (who has fought the likes of Spawn, Angela and Celestine):

And Overt-Kill (who has gone toe to toe with the likes of Spawn and Supreme):

So Badrock is someone who we could definitely make an argument for taking the win against old Joe himself. Here we have Badrock and Pitt in a battle royale with some pretty good and even back forth action:

And finally, here we go…this is the one I have been holding onto and been waiting to show. The one, the only…

Supreme

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So for some of his feats of strength, well, let’s start with an example of the strength levels of some of his foes, like so:

He has busted up meteors:

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Fought gods, like Thor, and we can see some examples from that fight and the strength levels involved:

Here he is dragging a spaceship:

There is also a feat of him moving an entire continent...but I lost a few scans, and will try and dig it up for perusal purposes...

Tanks a blast point blank that obliterated a chunk of the city without a scratch:

And for this next scan, bear in mind that there are a multitude of Supremes throughout time, space and so on, and all have been shown to be roughly equal in stats. With that in mind, here is a Supreme tanking bullets, tank shells and so on:

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At the time of the fight with Pitt, Supreme had lost his normal powers, and was instead empowered by Thor’s hammer, which gave him his flight, speed, strength and durability back, but didn’t return his more exotic powers (energy manipulation, etc – though the hammer could project its own energy). And before there are any questions on this, yes, I am sure Supreme was operating at the same physical level he was at before losing his powers and gaining the hammer. He eventually had to go through a test against Thor to see who was worthy, each wielding an identical hammer, and Supreme performed at the same level as his earlier fight with Thor. Pitt went tit for tat with Supreme for a good bit, proved capable of drawing blood from him and then played possum in a bid to separate Supreme from the hammer:

So not only has Pitt proven capable of taking a beating from someone stronger than Joe who was wielding a godly weapon, he has also proven capable of hurting someone who is at least as or slightly more durable than many Hulks. Blunt force damage is something that Pitt excels in tanking, dealing with, and healing from. If he can go at it with Supreme long enough to separate him from the hammer, then I see no reason why he can’t take old Joe down for the count.

In Closing

It may have taken us some time, but this has been an awesome debate. Feel free to drop your rebuttal, and since I started this bad boy, if you feel the post is a strong enough closer, then we'll open it for votes, or if not, we can go another round of rebuttals, but at this moment, I am one post ahead of you in this CaV, so I don't want to respond to your rebuttal unless you want to go one more post after that.

And to close out...how about a look at some Lady Supreme...

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Your move my man.

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cosmicallyaware1

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#63  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@wyldsong: wooo hooo my man, very nice indeed. This has been spectacular, I will put up a closing post soon. Runnin outta juice on this one . let's lay it to rest.

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Wyldsong

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@cosmicallyaware1: Lol...sounds good bud. Drop your closer, and we will open it for votes my friend.

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@wyldsong said:

@cosmicallyaware1: Lol...sounds good bud. Drop your closer, and we will open it for votes my friend.

alright brother, I will hopefully get it up tomorrow. Sheer epicness here though, look forward to our next endeavor already....

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Wyldsong

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@cosmicallyaware1: I am actually eyeballing some of the herald plus tiers currently...we'll talk=)

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@wyldsong said:

@cosmicallyaware1: I am actually eyeballing some of the herald plus tiers currently...we'll talk=)

oh bro....stop. You're gettin me excited, don't tease lol...............you know how I feel bout that level.

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Wyldsong

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@cosmicallyaware1: I know exactly how you feel and who you want to use...I just need to make sure that who I have in mind can match up=)

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#69  Edited By mickey-mouse

Votes?

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Wyldsong

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@lukehero said:

Votes?

Not yet brother man. One more post from cosmic, and then we will open it up.

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#71  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@wyldsong: alrighty brother man, let's finish this thing off shall we?

Final Rebuttals, Comments and Closing Statement......

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and the Hot Ring Girls are prepared to crown the victor here, as we know these contestants brine the ladies out from the woodwork, and the ladies love to see a spectacular brawl! So without further distraction, let's look at a couple things.........

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Tanking the Damage, both sides.....end of story.

Seriously though, he has fought people with base strength levels higher than Joe, and tanked that damage just fine. One thing he excels in dealing with and healing from is blunt force damage, which is part and parcel of Joe’s attacks. So while Joe may become stronger as the battle rages on, Pitt will most definitely be able to keep pace and secure the win

I'm sure that he PITT has fought those with higher base levels, 'ol Joe isn't the highest there is but the most important part is that Joe has room for improvement and that nasty 'ol cunning of his is scary. I don't doubt the ability to keep pace, and this is one heckofa a good match to say the least. securing the win is questionable mate.

He has fought highly trained, skilled and intelligent warriors and come out on top. Not to mention, as shown in previous scans, he uses the terrain to his advantage quite often (like with his digging abilities). While the scan of taking down Thing using his wiles and terrain is impressive, those tactics won’t work very well on Pitt, who can track Joe with his aggression lock. Joe won’t be able to hide and ambush him, and Pitt most definitely will be able to do so if needed.

Well, pretty much as well with Joe, and taking it a bit further, especially Hulk in general. And as I have illustrated as well, Joe is no slouch in using ANYTHING to his advantage to gain an upper hand (as when he literally stabbed Super Skrull)

and willing to do whatever it takes to pull off a win. He's downright nasty. I don't think he would hide from PITT, however using distraction and diversionary tactics would be very applicable and this "aggression lock" may or may not be effective, especially if Joe is calm and distracting PITT

While I agree it is destructive, and definitely agree it affected a large area, I don’t know if it exactly packs the same kind of punch. Remember that Project Sunspot is a more focused attack that was created to destroy fortified underground bunkers. In the process, it doesn’t just decimate an area, it incinerates everything in the area completely (including the armored mechs built to deal with Pitt). So while Joe’s feat is impressive, I am not convinced it is on the same level as the Project Sunspot attack.

Think of it like an ant, walking under the light of the sun, with no issues, until that little bastard kid comes out with a magnifying glass, focusing the light to create a more destructive and powerful effect.

Eh, it may or may not pack the same kind of punch, I will agree that they are two entirely different types of destructive agents. One is a high potency focused beam coming from ff planet down onto, and one is simply a bomb. Well, not just any bomb......a gamma bomb designed by the military and enhanced by a scientific genius (The Leader). Look at how much power was packed into that single bomb. Regardless, I will give you that the Project Sunspot attack packed a bit more of a punch, the Gamma Bomb was the only similar point that I had in contention to use.

And my analogy in rebuttal to yours: Think of the devious child that takes a beetle and puts it into a glass bottle and then drops a lit firecracker into the bottle to watch it get blown to smithereens.......

No arguments from me on the further points you made there. I agree that it is close indeed.

verily. Possibly one of the closest I've seen in a bit

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Empathic discussion ended, put 'er to rest...

That being said, Joe is still a Hulk, and this will still be a tough fight irregardless, so I don't want to sound dismissive of him and the point overall. Making a Hulk angry is a dangerous gambit for most, but for Pitt, I don't see it being a major problem

this whole category has been interesting to say the least. It's a tricky subject on what will or won't happen is Joe is angrier or not. I don't doubt that PITT will be able to hang no matter what, he's one tough customer.

And if we were talking about a natural progression of his anger throughout the fight, I might agree, but as is, this isn't natural, and is an ability designed to implement and bring about irrational anger and behavior. There is a rational and irrational side to anger and behavior, and Pitt doesn't enhance the rational side of things

I've touched on this before, and humor me for doing so again. Unlike other incarnations of Hulks, Joe is very unique in the sense that when he gets angrier, he gets craftier. It doesn't make him wore irrational, it makes him more innovative and focused. It has happened throughout his showings consistently. When he fought Ben Grimm, he became more innovative. When he was manipulated by Glorian em-pathetically it only increased his drive to kill him. It's not a good idea to mess with his head.

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Actually, I think it matters quite a bit. Any empathic resistance I have seen has been when people have tried to calm him down. A failure to calm down a Hulk and do it in such a manner where he is aware of it...yeah, I see it failing big time. Messing with his already enormous anger issues to cloud his judgement? There are pretty big differences between telepathic and empathic abilities. Not to mention, even Joe has struggled with direct psychic assaults

There have been times where Joe was influenced in attempts aside from attempting to calm him down. Such as when he avoided mental control from the Leader and Selene. I do understand the difference between telepathic and empathic abilities though, and I see the point you are trying to make. Now as you say Joe has struggled with direct psychic assaults? Well, maybe a little bit but he has proven victorious nonetheless, and was in the example you cited as well against Mercy in Incredible Hulk 338. He did not simply shrug off all assaults, and had to fight a bit, but he has never been controlled and every attempt has failed, that speaks volumes in itself.

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Now, I don't show that to downplay Joe, and if this were a pure, direct psychic attack, I might still err on the side of Joe, but this is an empathic ability, that Pitt does not advertise while he does it, and it plays on Hulk's massive anger issues, and enhancing them to the point of being irrational. I have seen no evidence that Hulk can resist such a thing

Well, all things said and done my friend, I have yet to see an example of Joe being influenced to the point of being irrational. And did I tell you that this debate made me go out and buy all the collected volumes appearances of Grey Hulk? Yeah the Marvel Visionaries collections of Byrne and David. Great stuff, and glad that I picked them up so I don't have to pull singular issues out of boxes anymore. Now to scan away examples that I don't already have.

Regardless, I feel that I have provided some evidence of Hulk's resistance in this area.

Enough 'O Dem Claws already.....

And while healing from Wolvie's claws is impressive, Wolvie still isn't packing Pitt levels of strength, and those claws are just tiny in comparison to Pitt's=)

hahaha, good point and true. I do feel that I have proven the ability for massive instant cellular regeneration and major organ damage repair in the blink of an eye. So Even with PITT's strength level and enlarged pig stickers, I feel the outcome would roughly remain the same.

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Substantial Foes and Battles on both sides...

I had four big names to bring to this little discussion, so I guess it is about time that we finish off the last two of those names. We are going way back into the Image Comics time machine for this one…but let’s talk about Thomas John McCall, aka…Badrock. And finally, here we go…this is the one I have been holding onto and been waiting to show. The one, the only…Supreme.

Impressive indeed. I will say that we have showcased some impressive foes and fights for each of our characters. I believe that I have showcased all of Joe's biggest and best fights, and let me recap some of those again real quick...

  • Ben Grimm, the Thing in mutated form.
  • Sharon Ventura She Thing
  • Abomination
  • Super Skrull
  • Doc Samson
  • X-Factor (original X Men)
  • Absorbing Man
  • Rick Jones Hulk
  • Grey Gargoyle
  • Freedom Force
  • Wonder Man and the entire West Coast Avengers
  • Wolverine

and I will leave you with this....

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In Closing....

well my friend I've said my piece. Let me stress a few points and we can move on to voting:

  1. Strength ratio is a close race
  2. Durability and regenerative capabilities seem to be on same level as well, with fantastic examples on both sides.
  3. Joe has substantial attributes in the realm of cunning and intelligence which may be the tipping factor.
  4. The Thunderclap.
  5. Hulks get stronger as they get madder.
  6. Fixit has gotten hotter girls in Vegas. lol.....
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those ring girls watchin the recap of the fight highlights. what a view tho!!!

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and with that, I'm done bro. We can go to voting....................

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Wyldsong

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#72  Edited By Wyldsong

@cosmicallyaware1: I am sure it was an awesome closing post, and I am going to wait to read it until after the voting...I'm not sure if I could resist the urge to respond otherwise=)

Win or lose, it has been an honor to get a full debate with you my friend. I am going to tag a few people for voting, feel free to tag some more, and I am going to say we let this go for 2-3 days, unless someone is getting the overwhelming majority on votes that is and we agree to close it earlier.

@oreoassassin@lukehero@tparks@neongamewave@jashro44@laflux@sovereign91001@i_like_swords@dragonborn_ct@theacidskull@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek@frozen @thetruebarryallen @ghostravage @serrure@pope052

And I am sure I will think of some others to add later. To the peeps I tagged, gang, tell us what you think if you would=)

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mickey-mouse

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@wyldsong: I shall read. Tag me again if I don't vote today.

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mysticmedivh

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I never knew Grey Hulk was a pimp.

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Wyldsong

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I never knew Grey Hulk was a pimp.

We learn something new everyday=)

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Wyldsong

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cosmicallyaware1

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#77  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@wyldsong: my man.

I am going to wait to read it until after the voting...I'm not sure if I could resist the urge to respond otherwise=)

lmfao, I feel I would have the same mindset

Win or lose, it has been an honor to get a full debate with you my friend

sentiments exactly, and it only took us 4 months lol! I feel this is the first of many matches my man

I am going to tag a few people for voting, feel free to tag some more, and I am going to say we let this go for 2-3 days, unless someone is getting the overwhelming majority on votes that is and we agree to close it earlier

sounds good, lemme give some shout outs to some of those that ya didn't....

@lvenger@esquire@boschepg@madeinbangladesh@iragexcudder@oceanmaster21@allstarsuperman@sophia89@darkraiden

@kingant27@redbarda@wolverine08@vance_astro@dondave@xiix@lol@heraldofganthet@consolemaster001@beaconofstrength@wundagoreborn@god_spawn@comicstooge@highaccuser@nimamindtricks@floopay@willpayton@killemall@New_World_Order

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Wyldsong

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@wyldsong: my man.

I am going to wait to read it until after the voting...I'm not sure if I could resist the urge to respond otherwise=)

lmfao, I feel I would have the same mindset

Win or lose, it has been an honor to get a full debate with you my friend

sentiments exactly, and it only took us 4 months lol! I feel this is the first of many matches my man

I am going to tag a few people for voting, feel free to tag some more, and I am going to say we let this go for 2-3 days, unless someone is getting the overwhelming majority on votes that is and we agree to close it earlier

sounds good, lemme give some shout outs to some of those that ya didn't....

@lvenger@esquire@boschepg@madeinbangladesh@iragexcudder@oceanmaster21@allstarsuperman@sophia89@darkraiden

@kingant27@redbarda@wolverine08@vance_astro@dondave@xiix@lol@heraldofganthet@consolemaster001@beaconofstrength@wundagoreborn@god_spawn@comicstooge@highaccuser@nimamindtricks@floopay@willpayton@killemall@New_World_Order

Good choices on the tags=)

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NeonGameWave

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This debate really defined the words great, epic, awesome, fun, noteworthy and interesting in one moment!!! I really enjoyed reading through this debate, both debaters, highly skilled, gifted and knowledgeable on their respective characters really did a intricately stellar job on countering and debating for their characters point for point and detail for detail. Now, there isn`t a clear winner here because both really did showcased vital points that were extremely eye opening!

@wyldsong

You did an exceedingly well crafted and conscious job of outlining Pitt`s feats in a very professionally orchestrated and organized manner. Pitt is an underrated character and a very unique one just like Maxx and you really did a A+ job in emphasizing how he matches up to the Hulk. You never fail to impress me and you really made this debate something truly special. Also with the layout and countering structure for structure in regards to feats you really did a super job in demonstrating Pitt`s strength, durability and unique abilities your versatility is expertly exemplified as your passion for these characters is undeniably commendable as with your other debates with Aspen, Witchblade, Rayne and etc. You have shown such amazing knowledge and appreciation, which I thank you for :)

@cosmicallyaware1

Your skill and dedication to this debate, Grey Hulk`s character and overall experience was quite amazing! The way in which you not only layered your points and arguments but in the feats you showed you timed and looked deeply into the situation well knowing where Pitt`s character stood on power level and your reasoning as well as judgement was very strong and enlightening. You were very detailed, convincing and open minded when it came to comparing Grey Hulk and Pitt, I commend you for that! You also brought a lot of energy and excitement to this debate as you made it very engaging for me as a reader to experience. You are a very encouraging and inspiring individual as well as debater, and that is something that I am grateful also truly happy for :)

In terms of an actual fight, I think they are even with Pitt having a slight advantage due to his unique abilities he can gain power through pain and his ability to use aggression with the ability to lock-on will really help to his advantage but Grey Hulk could match him with his strength and combat intelligence although in H2H Pitt is more than just talented or cunning he can be very tricky as well but I can see this fight going either way and I think their both pretty even.

Again, awesome debate!

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Fanatic_for_Fernus

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Tag for votes

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Wyldsong

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@neongamewave: Thank you for the detailed and insightful breakdown my friend. As always, your words are inspired and appreciated!

Tag for votes

Go for it my friend. Voting is now open=)

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deactivated-6137545428734

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Cosmic did a great job but I think wyldsong did a little better representing his character. Nice work to you both.

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tparks

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@lukehero said:

@wyldsong: I shall read. Tag me again if I don't vote today.

What he said. Been looking forward to reading this for a while, but I've got other stuff going on right now, and want to read it with no distractions.

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Wyldsong

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@the_invincible_one: Thank you for the vote my friend.

@tparks said:

@lukehero said:

@wyldsong: I shall read. Tag me again if I don't vote today.

What he said. Been looking forward to reading this for a while, but I've got other stuff going on right now, and want to read it with no distractions.

One of us will drop you a reminder I am sure=)

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serrure

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ima have to go with @cosmicallyaware1 here... Grulkies adaptation and intelligence really won it over for me

@wyldsong if you feel like using Pitt again i might be interested in a Gladiator vs Pitt CaV

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Sovereign91001

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@cosmicallyaware1@wyldsong I'm gonna need an hour or two to go over a debate of this caliber and render the vote it deserves...from what I've seen so far it looks close.

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@serrure: my man! muchos gracias for the vote hombre.

@neongamewave: what an amazing dissection and thoughtful breakdown man. Your kind and honest words honor myself and Wyld. Thank you very, very much. I'm humbled.

I never knew Grey Hulk was a pimp.

it's true! ladies love em!!!

@tparks said:

@lukehero said:

@wyldsong: I shall read. Tag me again if I don't vote today.

What he said. Been looking forward to reading this for a while, but I've got other stuff going on right now, and want to read it with no distractions.

well luke and tparks.................you better read up man, it was one hellofa debate.

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tparks

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@cosmicallyaware1: You know I will my man. Both you and Wyld are always great, can't wait to see what you two could do in the same thread.

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@tparks said:

@cosmicallyaware1: You know I will my man. Both you and Wyld are always great, can't wait to see what you two could do in the same thread.

word.

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#90  Edited By Wyldsong

@serrure: Thanks for stopping by and dropping a vote bro. Remind me later on that, but I need to get through our other group CaVs first=)

@tparks said:

@cosmicallyaware1: You know I will my man. Both you and Wyld are always great, can't wait to see what you two could do in the same thread.

It was definitely a helluva debate. I had fun. If cosmic hands me my first CaV loss, it was well earned. All in all, I think it was a pretty darn close race.

@sovereign91001 said:

@cosmicallyaware1@wyldsong I'm gonna need an hour or two to go over a debate of this caliber and render the vote it deserves...from what I've seen so far it looks close.

Take your time my friend. A lot of good stuff in there=)

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cosmicallyaware1

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#92  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@wyldsong:

It was definitely a helluva debate. I had fun. If cosmic hands me my first CaV loss, it was well earned. All in all, I think it was a pretty darn close race

it truly was my man. Finally had the opportunity to finish a match lol! You have never had a loss? how many CaV's have ya done? sheesh man, well I don't know if I dethroned ya...........I agree that it was darn close. regardless, you are a tough customer to go up against and can't wait for the next one!! Let me know about that higher tier you were talkin bout ;)

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Wyldsong

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#93  Edited By Wyldsong

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

@wyldsong:

It was definitely a helluva debate. I had fun. If cosmic hands me my first CaV loss, it was well earned. All in all, I think it was a pretty darn close race

it truly was my man. Finally had the opportunity to finish a match lol! You have never had a loss? how many CaV's have ya done? sheesh man, well I don't know if I dethroned ya...........I agree that it was darn close. regardless, you are a tough customer to go up against and can't wait for the next one!! Let me know about that higher tier you were talkin bout ;)

I really couldn't tell you how many CaVs off the top of my head I have done=)

There are maybe 2 that will remain forever incomplete (one group and a one on one), and one still in progress with jashro, but so far, no losses. A lot of close races with some awesome debaters though, and many that have had me sweating it out. If I lose though, it would be an honorable loss to a very worthy opponent. I honestly have no clue which way this will fall.

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redbarda

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oceanmaster21

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@wyldsong: has my vote he really repdesstnd avainst a very skilled debatorw

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ComicStooge

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I think I'll vote a tie. I can honestly see this debate going either way.

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cosmicallyaware1

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@lukehero: @sovereign91001: @tparks: get back in here and read away gents.........your opinion is held in high regard to Wyld and myself......

@wyldsong: WOW MAN, we have gotten some really great reviews thus far! I think it is an amazing testament to the both of our debates that viners are having a hard time deciding/calling a draw!

The count thus far:

Wyldsong: 2

Cosmicallyaware1: 2

TIE!!!: 2

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Wyldsong

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@comicstooge: @oceanmaster21: @redbarda: Thanks to each of you for coming in and taking the time to read and drop a vote. It is greatly appreciated=)

@lukehero: @sovereign91001: @tparks: get back in here and read away gents.........your opinion is held in high regard to Wyld and myself......

@wyldsong: WOW MAN, we have gotten some really great reviews thus far! I think it is an amazing testament to the both of our debates that viners are having a hard time deciding/calling a draw!

The count thus far:

Wyldsong: 2

Cosmicallyaware1: 2

TIE!!!: 2

I can't blame anyone that calls it a draw, there was some good stuff in there bro=)

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cosmicallyaware1

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bump for votes gents.

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HeraldofGanthet

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Ah, yes... the awesomeness that is Pitt. Truly one of the most underrated "big guys" in anyone's universe. That said, while @cosmicallyaware1 showed me that Grey Hulk is MUCH more formidable than I originally thought, @wyldsong taught me things that even I didn't know about the manster that is Pitt.

@wyldsong for the win, but you put in serious work @cosmicallyaware1. Props to you both!!!