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#1 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan

Goku

Rules:

  • The battle can take place on a lifeless planet.
  • No morals and they both are bloodlusted.
  • They start off 100 feet away.
  • no prep.
  • Standard equipment.
  • No one comments on who is going to win until after the debate is finished

@pope052 Here we go.

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#2 Edited by Simon_the_digger (7048 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be awesome.

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#3 Posted by XLR87T3 (9474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 So do you want to start it of or do you want me too?

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#5 Posted by HyperViper97 (1351 posts) - - Show Bio

O it's da pope. Pope

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#8 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (17515 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be good :D

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#9 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

OHHH SHIIII

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#10 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio
  
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#11 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be awesome, I can`t wait!

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#12 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052

Lets get this started shall we sense we already started this debate in the other thread I might as well address something you said there:

1. Goku is easily faster than the speed of light (don't say that he isn't, because it's been proven on a number of occasions). Hal isn't fast at all without aid of the ring.

Goku is not faster then light I could easily make a case for him not being FTL like you can make one for him being FTL.And really it does not matter if he needs a ring or not clearly the GL rings gives him superhuman speed.

2.I don't see why Goku's energy projection wouldn't be capable of destroying Hal's constructs, because he's done more impressive things with his energy numerous amount of times.

Goku could break them but don"t think it will be easy,Hal constructs has withstood planet busters,black holes, blows from class 100 beings tec don"t think Goku is smashing them easy.

3. He is physically stronger, one punch and Hal should be finished.

No not even close,If Mongul senior,Superman and other power houses can't ko Hal with a punch Goku is not.

2. He is a genius when it comes to fighting opponents, if Goku is serious he would study Hal and notice that he creates things through his ring, Goku would then proceed to trick him into thinking he's dashing towards him, teleport behind him, blind him with the solar-flare, snatch the ring off, then Hal is powerless.

Yeah....Hal is not going to fall for such a cheap trick and if that's the case Hal could do the same thing.

3. Hal will be lucky if he manages to scratch Goku, Goku's reflexes are way too fast for Hal to handle. Not to mention he can use the After-Image if he felt like it.

Hal is massively hypersonic in speed he can and will tag Goku

4. If it was both without morals, Goku would win easier than he already would have before, because Goku is too good and holds back most of his power because he doesn't like killing. Without morals he would have defeated everyone he has faced alot easier.

This is giving Hal way more of an edge then the other way around.With no morals Hal would pull out all sorts of tricks,altering perception,matter matter manipulation etc.

Now on to what you said about Goku being FTL:

Okay I can give significant reasons as to why he surpasses the speed of light.I cannot provide scans unfortunately for solid proof of the following statements, but these are true:

When Piccolo and Goku fought Raditz, Raditz' power level was no bigger than 1,200. When Piccolo tried blasting him with the Special-Beam cannon, Raditz dodged and Piccolo shouted that "He is faster than the speed of light", meaning that Piccolo's energy blast exceeded the speed of light and his power level was slightly below 400. Why would Piccolo bluff by saying this? He is an intelligent fighter especially when threatened by someone with a power level over x3 times bigger than his own, so it wouldn't make sense for this statement to be false.

That was bad dubbing Pic never stated that his blast was light speed in the manga of the Japanese version.

Goku was training with Mr. Popo and he stated that Goku was faster than "lightning" (I can't quote exactly what he said because as I stated before, it doesn't work for me, let's hope someone else might) now lightning is about half of the speed of light, now imagine

Lighting is not any where close to light speed lighting in typical condition travels 224,000 mph,while light travels 186,000 miles per second<it is not half in fact it is not even close to it.

When Vegeta fired his Final Flash on Cell, he dared Cell not to dodge it. When it was fired Cell noticed it's potential and dodged it quickly, The blast traveled out of the solar system and hit a star. The time that it took in total was around 20 seconds, and stars are light-years of distance away, so if he could hit a star within 20 seconds, the blast had to be much faster than speed of light.

That does not mean it hit a star,for all we know it could have been an asteroid he hit there was no indication that said blast was hit a star.

Kami stated that he couldn't even see Goku and Piccolo fighting and Kami's eyes are godly fast (as he stated himself) reminder this is still in Dragon-Ball.

Still does not prove FTL just prove there were to fast for Kami to see.

When Vegeta and Nappa invaded Earth and fought Gohan, Piccolo and the other fighters, Nappa planted the Saibamen and Yamcha started to battle one of them, notice how fast they were moving, they were impossible to see for human eyes, and Yamcha is one of the weakest DBZ characters.

You only have to be around mach 3 for a being the size of a human to move faster then the human eye IIRC so again it proves nothing.

Instant transmission, "INSTANT transmission". Instant is faster than everything.

IT =/= combat speed

Do you even see how fast DBZ characters punch? It's much faster than even Hal or even Superman has shown to punch, (I know Superman is faster than the speed of light in terms of travelling, but he hasn't shown to be as fast as DBZ characters are show to fight in the comics or the cartoons), but let's not get into alternate form of "Goku VS Superman".

This proves nothing honestly and is not even worth addressing.

I will post scan for Hal later for now it's your move.

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#13 Posted by SonDeathEater (1164 posts) - - Show Bio

I would argue with this but I'm lazy but i want to state one thing,Superman is not that strong,doing calculations on king kai's density makes goku not that faraway from Flash using IMP and when flash stated that his punch was strong enough to destroy a white dwarf star.

For the FTL thing,Being covered in an arena from 360 direction with some people who can actually see at super-hypersonic speeds not being able to see them at all makes it look like FTL.There's also another feat where the character actually shoots a beam at the moon and have the light reflect off within seconds.Then, a character is able to react to an attack faster than that within short range.Seems goku is FTL to me.

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#14 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@sondeatheater:The problem with King Kai's planet is we do not know how it's gravity is 10x of Earth it could be because of magic(I mean Kai's are gods that can create star,people planets etc it should not be hard for them to do that,) or it could be density,until it is stated which one is best left out of the battle forum.

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#15 Edited by THC (371 posts) - - Show Bio

Proving Hal is merely in the hypersonic range proves he might be able to keep up with Raditz. And that's might. Piccolo and Goku were massively hypersonic themselves at that point, and Raditz wasn't even a blur, he literally teleported around before their eyes.

edit: oops sorry for intruding I guess. Another thing, proving he can withstand planet-busters proves he could take on baseform Vegeta Frieza Saga or 1st Form Frieza at the most with his constructs' durability.

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#16 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

Proving Hal is merely in the hypersonic range proves he might be able to keep up with Raditz. And that's might. Piccolo and Goku were massively hypersonic themselves at that point, and Raditz wasn't even a blur, he literally teleported around before their eyes.

edit: oops sorry for intruding I guess. Another thing, proving he can withstand planet-busters proves he could take on baseform Vegeta Frieza Saga or 1st Form Frieza at the most with his constructs' durability.

No Dragon Ball Z character is FTL imo so Hal should have no problem tagging them because they are massiely hypersonic themselves.

Goku does not shoot multi planet busting attacks every time he blast, if so can you show where he does?

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#17 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Please, don't quote my points because it's a pain having to scroll up to see what you said every time.

Goku can easily dodge bullets, he surpassed the speed of lightning in early Dragon-Ball, learned how to move instantly, SSJ3 multiplies all of this by a massive margin. Please get over it, he's at least the speed of light. I've stated a number of reasons as to why and all you say back is "Still doesn't prove that he's the speed of light" How else am I supposed to prove it, you can't back up as to why Hal is faster or even fast enough to keep up with Goku, you just keep denying that Goku isn't the speed of light. Hal has never shown to be faster than the eye can see or even Superman for that matter.

Okay now how about you focus on something else other than how fast the two are?

Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster, Master Roshi was even a moon-buster and his power level was at a tiny 139. King Vegeta destroyed 3 planets at once by swiftly moving his hand, Nappa destroyed a city with a lift of his two fingers. Now imaging what SSJ3 Goku is capable of, Galaxy busting at least.

Goku is a much better fighter, physically stronger, more durable, much faster , dozens of abilities (Energy blasts, Telekinesis, Teleportation, Instant movement), and all of his abilities get multiplied as he ascends from each Super-Saiyan transformation.

Hal isn't any of this without the ring, Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting, like I said before he would notice that Hal can't do much without use of his ring. So Goku could easily snatch it off in a number of ways, (Examples: Teleporting at different angles to confuse Hal, then lands a punch and takes it off/ Blinds him with the solar-flare and takes it off).

There's too many ways Goku can win this but i'm not going to name them all, Goku has faced much stronger opponents than Hal, (Buu, Cell, Frieza, Broly, etc).

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#18 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Please, don't quote my points because it's a pain having to scroll up to see what you said every time.

Well this CAV debates is not for you,because in order for me to address every point I have to quote you.

Goku can easily dodge bullets

Whoopty do so can Hal.

he surpassed the speed of lightning in early Dragon-Ball,

FTL>>>>>>>>>Lighting

learned how to move instantly,

Teleportion is not combat speed,so it is a waste of time bring it up,even more so when Hal can do the same:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

SSJ3 multiplies all of this by a massive margin.

Again none of this proves a FTL

Please get over it, he's at least the speed of light.

When you bring solid evidence of such I will.

I've stated a number of reasons as to why

And I refuted every one of them and you still have not countered them yet.

and all you say back is "Still doesn't prove that he's the speed of light"

Because you haven't.

How else am I supposed to prove it,

bring irrefutable evidence?

you can't back up as to why Hal is faster or even fast enough to keep up with Goku, you just keep denying that Goku isn't the speed of light.

I was going to do that on my next post: Here are Hal's speed feats:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

^^In the scans above Hal break the sound barrier before Guy can finish a sentence,he also travels several miles in seconds to blitz Kyle Rayner as Paralax (note look how close Paralax was to his family Hal showed great precision and reaction in that scan)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

^^Here Hal was able to catch Zoom while he is beating the snot out of the Dc trinity (albeit Zoom was distracted but it still is a good feat because he still had to grab him while he is moving at a speed Superman and Wonder Woman had a hard time reacting to)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

^^Here Hal is keeping up with Eobard Thawne.

Reacts/moves in a nanosecond:

No Caption Provided

http://www.comicvine.com/api/image/scale_super/3006283-2921112823-HalSu.jpg

^^ in the link above Hal blitzes Superman

No Caption Provided

In the scan above Hal increases the reaction time of an alien with his ring.

Now I'm not saying Hal is faster then Goku, hell Hal is slower then he is but Hal can contend with his speed and should be able to tag him,when he amps up his speed.

Hal has never shown to be faster than the eye can see or even Superman for that matter.

I already addressed the speed part.

Okay now how about you focus on something else other than how fast the two are?

I had to get speed out of the way but that is Goku's biggest advantage here.

Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster.

Good Hal has protected himself from planet buster before, the dude has held back an exploding star and all top tier GL's can take easily take the crushing force of a Black Hole.

No Caption Provided

King Vegeta destroyed 3 planets at once by swiftly moving his hand,

Keep in mind that was filler.

Nappa destroyed a city with a lift of his two fingers.

Okay.

Now imaging what SSJ3 Goku is capable of, Galaxy busting at least.

He is not even close to that type of power, and there is no evidence to suggest so.

Hal has been able to kill and immortal in Kronas, cleave through Mongul II like butter,easily tear through Mongul's army,put a whole through Hank Henshaw etc so don't think Hal blast are not powerful.

Goku is a much better fighter,

Agreed,but Hal is not a bad fighter himself.

physically stronger

Agreed but with constructs Hal can become stronger then Goku he has held and entire continent in place and was able to stop the moon from wobbling.

more durable

Hal can make shields that are more durable then Goku.

much faster

Goku is faster, but Hal can contend with his speed as I have shown.

dozens of abilities

Hal has even more.

Energy blasts,

Hal has that

Telekinesis,

Hal does not have that so that's + 1 for Goku

Teleportation,

Hal has that as I have already showed

Instant movement)

That is the same as Teleportation, no?

here are abilities Hal have that Goku can only dream of:

He has intangibility:

No Caption Provided

He has invisibility:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Hal can alter ones perception:

No Caption Provided

I see no reason to believe this won't work on Goku.

Hal also has matter manipulation:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Transmute Atom Strange(1-2) and also turns himself into a bug(3-5).

No Caption Provided

Here Hal packs atoms down in a mini star created by Sinestro.

Goku has no answer for matter manipulation.

He can also make constructs from anything he imagines

The dude has rebuild a whole city with his constructs:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

A blast that is hotter then the Sun would leave a mark on Son don't you think?

No Caption Provided

Or Hal could hit Goku with shots that cleaved through Mongul II like butter:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Don't forget that Hal was able to kill an immortal:

No Caption Provided

Hal has abilities Goku has no answer for.

Hal isn't any of this without the ring,

The thing is though he will not be with out his ring.

Goku is a genius when it comes to fighting,

True but Hal is no slouch in that department

like I said before he would notice that Hal can't do much without use of his ring.

He can notice all he want that still does not mean Hal is falling for a cheap trick

So Goku could easily snatch it off in a number of ways,

He can try.

(Examples: Teleporting at different angles to confuse Hal,

That won"t really be a problem especially when Hal is sporting the same power

then lands a punch and takes it off/

Hal has auto shields that protect him so to take of the ring he first need to get past said shields

Blinds him with the solar-flare and takes it off)

Solar Flare won't work Gl's are used to intense light I mean Hal was close to a exploding star it does not get much brighter then that.

All in all with the combination of intangibility, invisibility,constructs and matter manipulation I think a bloodlusted no morals Hal would win more times then not.

Your move. (BTW if you want scans for anything I stated in my post just ask)

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#19 Posted by 18hunt (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

I really can't see almost any green lantern touching a serious ssj3. No contest if you ask me

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#20 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

I really can't see almost any green lantern touching a serious ssj3. No contest if you ask me

You are not supposed to comment on the battle until after it is over.

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#21 Posted by 18hunt (3337 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I know but I am addicted to goku so I couldn't hold back sry

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#22 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@18hunt said:

Yeah I know but I am addicted to goku so I couldn't hold back sry

lol it's cool.

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#23 Edited by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio

This looks Good

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#24 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15182 posts) - - Show Bio

this is very good match up u both are doing well keep ip the good work

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#25 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by SpideyPresence (1912 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: I don't know I have to ask the Pope .

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#30 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by deactivated-1358091 (2516 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Fantastic scans. Should teach a something against anyone who thinks that Hal is a statue when it comes to dealing with people who has super speed.

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#32 Posted by Chibi_cute (5157 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku would murder Hal jordan

The guy can move faster than the speed of light with ease..

In his battle with freiza he easily dodged a light that can paralyze him.

Even kid goku at dragonball is faster than lightning.

Goku would knock him out at one hand.

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#33 Edited by alcoholbob (1314 posts) - - Show Bio

@thc said:

Proving Hal is merely in the hypersonic range proves he might be able to keep up with Raditz. And that's might. Piccolo and Goku were massively hypersonic themselves at that point, and Raditz wasn't even a blur, he literally teleported around before their eyes.

edit: oops sorry for intruding I guess. Another thing, proving he can withstand planet-busters proves he could take on baseform Vegeta Frieza Saga or 1st Form Frieza at the most with his constructs' durability.

No Dragon Ball Z character is FTL imo so Hal should have no problem tagging them because they are massiely hypersonic themselves.

Goku does not shoot multi planet busting attacks every time he blast, if so can you show where he does?

Well that's not true, clearly flight speed FTL is possible in DBZ.

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=19660

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#34 Edited by xlab3000 (3947 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I've already explained to you that I cannot post scans, but you probably won't believe me anyway. You may have proven Hal is very fast, but you have not proven that he is faster than Goku. FTL has been proven in DBZ so many times, you can't have an opinion that it didn't happen because it literally happened.

The points that I said in that other thread are more than enough to prove that DBZ Characters are FTL, and SSJ3 multiplier would multiply his speed tremendously, but you continue to just deny every fact. You haven't provided anything that says that DBZ Characters aren't FTL. You just post Hal's speeds, which are hyper-sonic I get that, but haven't provided something that shows he's faster than the speed of light.

It's like saying that DBZ characters cannot bust galaxies, but it literally happened on scene when Broly did it, or like saying that they can't even destroy planets, but that is far beyond proven. DBZ Characters are FTL, you can't put opinion over fact.

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#36 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@sithlantern93: No one ever mentioned Hal was slow, just not as fast as Goku, especially in SSJ3.

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#37 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: So are we done yet?Or do you want to keep going? If so...

I've already explained to you that I cannot post scans, but you probably won't believe me anyway.

I don't need scans for your claims I have read/watched virtually all DBZ.

You may have proven Hal is very fast, but you have not proven that he is faster than Goku

I never stated Hal was I clearly stated he is faster then Hal,but I said Hal is fast enough to tag him.

FTL has been proven in DBZ so many times, you can't have an opinion that it didn't happen because it literally happened.

When did you prove it?I refuted all of your points and instead of actually replying @ them you just keep repeating it over and over again,that is not how CAV works.

The points that I said in that other thread are more than enough to prove that DBZ Characters are FTL, and SSJ3 multiplier would multiply his speed tremendously, but you continue to just deny every fact.

Correction I refuted every one of them logically,but for some reason you have no counter for them. You haven't provided anything that says that DBZ Characters aren't FTL. Cat calling the kettle back?Where did you prove he is FTL?

You just post Hal's speeds, which are hyper-sonic I get that, but haven't provided something that shows he's faster than the speed of light.

Just like you have never posted anything that proves Goku is light speed.If we are going to use A>B>C logic I could say Hal is FTL because he was able to catch Zoom. Zoom>>>>>>>FTL.

It's like saying that DBZ characters cannot bust galaxies, but it literally happened on scene when Broly did it,

Broly is not even canon.

or like saying that they can't even destroy planets, but that is far beyond proven.

They can bust planets because it has been shown to say they can't is just plain silly.

DBZ Characters are FTL, you can't put opinion over fact.

What facts?

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#38 Posted by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute: .

Goku would murder Hal jordan

No he would not.

The guy can move faster than the speed of light with ease..

No he is not if so I would like the over whelming evidence.

In his battle with freiza he easily dodged a light that can paralyze him.

Just because the move was called Paralyzing Light that does not mean it was,I can name many attacks in fiction with Light speed in there names and they are nowhere near light speed.

Even kid goku at dragonball is faster than lightning.

Light>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lighting.

Goku would knock him out at one hand.

Yeah Goku can one shot some one that took hits from Mongul senior,Superman and other class 100 beings..

Did you even read the OP?

"No one comments on who is going to win until after the debate is finished"

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#39 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Funny, how everyone is against you and you haven't provided one single piece of evidence that Hal is faster than Goku, and you just deny every piece of evidence that people give to you, you're impossible to convince.

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#40 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I've given you significant reasons as to why they are at least on the speed of light, just think about this:

Mr.Popo stated that Goku is faster than lightning, now I get that it's not as fast as light, but it's still very fast for a power level of around 150. The SSJ3 power level is over 1,000,000,000. Now wouldn't you think that if Goku could move faster than lightning with a weak power level of 150, can move at least the speed of light with a power level millions of times bigger than 150?Even if he couldn't (which he easily can), it would still be far too fast for Hal to cope with in a battle.

You keep asking me for "solid proof", well when Goku fought Burter, he was too fast for Burter to cope with and Burter even said himself, "How did you get behind me without me seeing?, I'm faster than the speed of light! I'm the fastest being in the whole universe". Now how are you supposed to prove this wrong? It's fact. SSJ3 is too much for Hal to cope with in terms of speed i'm sorry.

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#41 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: Erm, no. First off, their not even supposed to even be talkign this is just between you and him. You still haven't proved that he is faster than FTL. No scans, no vids, no calculations. Just because everyone has their agreements doesn't mean it proves anything if you're not showing anything.

In that case Green Lantern is MUCH faster than Goku with no proof given because of the fact alone he travels around the galaxy and get's from point A to point B in moments so he'll have to be hundreds and thousands FTL+the reaction speed to dodge asteriods going this fast.

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#42 Posted by SonDeathEater (1164 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: ...Cell also destroyed asteroids going "this fast".But I agree that The pope should put in some evidence.But it's flawed logic to think that traverse speed is more important in a fight.Goku could IT to any place.Since he has shown a lot of combat speed feats that showed that he can atleast go mach speeds in combat speeds,it would be quite easy to beat Green Lantern in a race from A to B.

@dccomicsrule2011: If you want evidence that DBZ characters go FTL,we need to atleast establish that ki blasts can go FTL.When Piccolo shot his casual ki blast at the moon the blast took 2 seconds to hit and 1 for the light to reflect off and this is anime DBZ.The anime tends to be slow most of the time so I won't be surprised that it was going faster than we think.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJ-Z1BXMQc

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Since we established this,that means any blast after this is stronger and more faster.Raditz dodged Piccolo's strongest attack but Raditz barely dodged it.Secondly,if something is going under light speed,it could still be seen from a certain angle.When GOku and Piccolo were fighting,they could not be seen by anyone from a 360 degree angle.Even characters who can easily see machine gun bullets being shot could not see them.If these characters were that fast at the beginning of DB,characters beyond that are easily light speed.

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#43 Posted by unBREAKable_Fs4 (4316 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry guys for posting when the battle is between you and him, I really am

As you can see I just joined Comincvine after a year a reading battles. I always said I would never join cause of how rabid some of the poster are but I kinda got fed up with this notion that was some how created that Goku isn't FTL. I don't read comics but I respect the characters and learn as much as I can from the posters here. I know comics are more consistent and are more scientific and specific with their feats, so its tough when a poster asks a anime/manga fan to show them scans or show calcs of a anime/manga characters power.

Anyways with that said, I want to address the Goku not being FTL thing. I might be wrong but if I am please correct me.

Goku and all DBZ characters, as you all know have ridiculous speed when fighting. How I came to the conclusion that they are FTL is by the basic things that take place when they battle. We all know that when powerful DBZ characters fight they are literary invisible to the naked eye and all that is seen is shock-waves in the air from their battle. The other Z fighters close their eyes and sense their ki in order to see the fight. This leads me to believe that since the reason things are visible to us is because light particles hit them and bounce back at us to create an image, but if these Z-fighters are invisible when fighting (not running but fighting! ...Amazing I know lol) it means they are too fast for the light to bounce off them creating the image = FTL

I did some research on this and it seems to be true, also some guy posted about how he asked his professor about it and he agreed. People replied saying it has to do with the speed of the brain's processing, but remember these are DBZ characters with FAR GREATER perception abilities than a normal human. here's the link --> http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-429608-speed-required-to-become-invisible.html

With that I rest my case. If you have any correction to make, please do. I am inexperienced with many things here. Thanks

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#44 Edited by pooty (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

It is impossible to do "CAV" without posting any scans. dccomicsrule2011 wins by default.

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#45 Edited by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio
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@wardemon32: There I actually managed to fix it, I can post scans now. Burter here states he is faster than light and Goku was able to get behind him without seeing.

@dccomicsrule2011: Finally, here is the "solid proof".

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#46 Edited by CerberusPrime3k (980 posts) - - Show Bio
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@pope052: There are a ton of Fan scans out there I doubt the one you posted is the correct translation.

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#47 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@cerberusprime3k: Oh so as soon as I do post a scan proving Goku is faster than light, you think that it's faked?

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#48 Posted by Wardemon32 (5486 posts) - - Show Bio

When does the voting start?

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#49 Posted by Pope052 (3540 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: When both of us are done, or if someone gives up...

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#50 Edited by Pharoh_Atem (44258 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052 said:

@dccomicsrule2011: Funny, how everyone is against you and you haven't provided one single piece of evidence that Hal is faster than Goku, and you just deny every piece of evidence that people give to you, you're impossible to convince.

Dude do you even read?I have already stated Hal is not faster then Goku I said he is fast enough to tag him.Please read what I post:

@dccomicsrule2011said:Now I'm not saying Hal is faster then Goku, hell Hal is slower then he is but Hal can contend with his speed and should be able to tag him,when he amps up his speed.

@dccomicsrule2011: never stated Hal was I clearly stated he is faster then Hal,but I said Hal is fast enough to tag him.

But yet you keep going on and on.Hal has nanosecond reaction when he amps his speed,he is fast enough to tag Goku and you still have not addressed how Going is going to deal with getting turned to water via matter manipulation or how he can deal with his senses getting altered or how he is going to hit some one intangible and invisible you can't because Goku has no answer for most.

@unbreakable_fs4:@sondeatheater: You guys must not read the op have you?

" No one comments on who is going to win until after the debate is finished"

@pope052 said:
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@wardemon32: There I actually managed to fix it, I can post scans now. Burter here states he is faster than light and Goku was able to get behind him without seeing.

@dccomicsrule2011: Finally, here is the "solid proof".

That is a fan scan,in the original burter just says he is the fastest being in the universe nice try though anyway if we are going by statements......

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or.....

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Superman himself stated Hal>JLA so that means Hal can beat Flash who is thousands of time faster then light.See what i did there?Statements mean nothing. Anyway I'm done we can call for votes now.