In one corner, weighing at 65,000 tons, standing over 50 meters tall, and the Champion of the east, you know him, you love him, the King of the Monsters himself, GOOOOOOOD ZILLAAAAAAA!
In the other corner, standing at 6'6, weighing at a whopping 640 pounds, the ruler of Asgard, the god of Thunder, champion of the west, put your hands together for THOOOOOOR OOOODINSOOOOOON!
Da Rules
Godzilla will only be from Movies and Comics. No GMK.
What can I say about GZ? Other than he is the most badass monster in Japan fiction, and America comics lol.
Seriously, this match already happen, but never finish with Classic Thor vs Marvel Godzilla alone.
Except, back then Thor had the help of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, and SHIELD. They still failed. Flash forward nearly 30 years and not much change. Godzilla has gotten better, stronger, and more powerful since the Marvel days. I will show how this Monster will outlasts the God of Thunder in a battle to the finish.
Godzilla has several benefits against Thor in this fight.
His own stats in strength and durability.
Speed, I think GZ is faster of the two.
Energy projection is solidly in GZ corner.
Regen, something that is key to out lasting Thor.
These factors will be what leads Godzilla into a stomp of a victory in the end. Im not going to get into feats really at the moment, just a warm up opener.
This post is essentially my opening post, much like how yours is. I plan on showing what Thor is capable of right from the beginning so that we can get into the actual debating aspect of this thread much quicker. I will maybe dive into a little of the debate here, but most of it will take place after this post.
I will like to say, Godzilla is quite a large threat, though I believe the Odinson is more than capable of taking him down. Fighting giant creatures isn't something new to him as his own prophecy has him dying after slaying one (much larger than Godzilla too), so I think the giant lizard is in for a big treat.
Let's begin.
Info:
Thanks for summing that up for us Thor :P
Powers & Abilities:
Thor has a plethora of abilities, though I am aware not all of them will come into play due to Thor's fighting style, not to mention some of them are out-dated. Even so, he has quite a deal of abilities that could come into play against the overgrown lizard. Some may play or more crucial role in the debate than others. I would like to note not all of Thor's powers come from his hammer, but some are abilities he got from his heritage. Also if some powers are missing, keep in mind I left them out as they wouldn't likely play a key role or any role in this battle at all for that matter. So, let's begin with the powers and abilities Thor has that do not come from his hammer, but instead himself.
Super human strength: Thor possesses tremendous amounts of physical strength which allows him to accomplish feats which many in the Marvel universe couldn't replicate. 100 ton+++ range.
Invulnerability: Thor is capable of taking loads of punishment.
Superhuman speed: Though Thor isn't exactly as fast as most characters in his tier, he's still quite fast in his own regard.
Superhuman stamina: Thor's stamina is incredibly high to the point where he can fight for days or even months.
Weather manipulation: Against what many may believe, Thor can control the weather without the use of his hammer Mjolnir.
Earth manipulation: Due to Thor's mother Gaea being the Goddess of earth, Thor has control over it (though to a lesser degree).
Here you may find additional information.
Like I said above, Thor has abilities that come from his hammer that he wouldn't have on his own. Some of those powers and abilities that will play a role in this battle are presented below. Keep in mind, his hammer also enhances other abilities above to a greater degree.
Flight: Thor is unable to fly on his own. He relies on spinning Mjolnir and then holding upon the handle to carry him where he wishes to go.
Energy projection: Mjolnir allows Thor to release powerful blasts of energy from it.
Energy absorption: Mjolnir is able to absorb large quantities of energy whether it be from an energy source, blast, or even the energy out of being.
God Blast: Thor can release his own godly energies into a blast.
Tracking: The hammer can also track energies from long distances away.
Opening portals: Mjolnir is able to open portals to get him from one spot to another.
Here is more info on the hammer of Thor, Mjolnir.
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Main focus - Physical Strength/Striking Power:
Seeing how this battle will mostly rely on physicals, I think it's a good idea that I show how physically opposing Thor can be. He's more than capable of matching the physical strength of Godzilla as i'll show below with some feats. What better way to show them? Physical strength and striking power, the two main focuses here, which i'll show both of. I'm going to start off by displaying some feats of physical strength for Thor as it's going to be the less important aspect of this battle.
A good representation of Thor's strength was in his last amazing on-going, "Thor: God Of Thunder", which is a fairly recent showing. He lifts the largest mountain in Jotunheim and brings it all the way back to earth.This is impressive as the mountains in Jotunheim seem to be much larger than the ones on earth, not to mention Thor is casually lifting it as if the mountain were a small boulder. The fact that he brought it such a distance is a testament to the Thunder God's strength.
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Thor has also done a similar feat of lifting something considerably large (though not as large as before). This feat also comes from Thor God Of Thunder. He lifted his entire castle from Asgard and brought it down to the people of Broxton when their homes were destroyed.
It would be a good idea to keep notice of how Thor is casually doing these feats which means he's not exerting himself. His strength is of course way above this, so hopefully you don't believe this is his set limit.
With that being said, I'll move on to the more important aspect of this debate, striking power! I think it's pretty obvious that a God with a magical hammer can strike incredibly hard, but how hard is exactly what Intend to show. You see, Thor's striking power is going to be a key role in taking down Godzilla because it's one of his best attributes (in terms of fighting). He can strike harder than most people in his weight class due to the hammer he wields. Now, before going into him actually striking somebody down with his hammer, I would like to show you a feat which will in deal show how potentially hard he can strike. In Fear Itself when Thor encountered both Angrir (breaker of souls) and Nul (breaker of worlds) (Thing & Hulk with hammers similar to Mjolnir), he was forced to do something he wouldn't normally do. That was, kill Ben. He simply called Mjolnir to go through the body of Ben, thus killing him.
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Though many people don't agree, or like to accept, this was an amped Thing and Hulk. They were given hammers which were similar to that of Thor's. In fact most of the Worthy (which they were called) were given power boosts to do things they couldn't normally do. For example, the Juggernaut (who became Kuurth: breaker of stone) was literally unstoppable and literally nothing could stop him (beyond what he was literally capable of). Even Thing himself was boosted to another level, he overpowered Rulk in battle and sent him to a next state (I can present scans if needed). All that should be known is that Thor easily took out a being who could take out Rulk. I say that's a really impressive feat.
It doesn't stop there, i'm going to present another striking feat for Thor. This one is quite impressive because he does it without the use of Mjolnir. Thor literally punches an undead from Hela's realm (I believe that's where he came from) into outer space. This was done in a single blow and we get a clear visualization of how hard Thor could strike without his hammer. If you look closely in the very last panel, you can see that he was sent quite a deal away from the earth which makes the feat even more impressive.
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So as you can see, I've shown Thor's striking power in this battle will be an issue for just about anyone. I didn't even show him striking something or someone with his hammer yet, but more so him having his hammer fly through an enemy and him using his fists to strike his enemy into space. This should suffice for Thor's physicals in this battle.
Although I can get into things like durability, speed, weather manipulation, etc, I think i'll wait until my next post. The reason I wanted to get physical strength/striking power out of the way is because it's going to be the biggest factor in a battle of two beings who rely heavily on it. So I wanted to put all my attention on it for my opener. That being said, the other aspects will be shown as well as more of this one in my next post.
Questions:
I have some questions about your first post which I will need the answer to as it can play quite a role in the debate moving forward.
You showed Thor along with many other heroes in battle against Godzilla, but is this even canon? I haven't read this before, so I don't know anything about it. In this referenced in any Godzilla future stories or such, because I don't remember it being mention in any Marvel stories (correct me I am wrong). When you said Comic versions, I was under the impression you meant the Godzilla comics, not any comics he's been shown in.
You say that because Thor was equally matched with Godzilla in physical strength here he's already at a disadvantage because Godzilla has gone through several upgrades since then. I don't agree. First off, they were matched in physical strength, that isn't exactly proof enough to say you win a battle, especially since Thor strikes with a big hammer and doesn't wrestle with people. I also didn't help but recognize that Thor is using one hand to do this feat, which suggests he wasn't exactly using all of his strength (he's using his hammer to stay in the air). The narration may say they were equally matched, but it's clearly obvious that if someone is using one of their arms opposes to two they wouldn't be as strong. The true question is, what makes this Godzilla physically weaker than the ones to be shown in the future? When have we seen Godzilla matching strength with someone as physically opposing as Thor in his comic history? I don't think he has, so I would think this would be a high end feat if anything. His other feats don't quite add up and wouldn't mean that he's instantly stronger than Thor here.
I know this is merely an opener, but you could have just gave me an idea of what Godzilla brought to the fight. Instead you listed off how Godzilla has advantages over Thor without explaining how. To be honest, how exactly does Godzilla have more powerful energy projection than Thor, not to mention how is faster or more durable? This I will wait to see.
With that being said, I believe this concludes my opener. Next post I believe we can get to the real debate.
@heirtothekingdom: Ah, you make my opener look small. Time to power up.
Alright, lets me answer some questions real quick.
You showed Thor along with many other heroes in battle against Godzilla, but is this even canon? I haven't read this before, so I don't know anything about it. In this referenced in any Godzilla future stories or such, because I don't remember it being mention in any Marvel stories (correct me I am wrong). When you said Comic versions, I was under the impression you meant the Godzilla comics, not any comics he's been shown in.
Marvel Godzilla was indeed Canon, and Godzilla was a major threat until the end of the comics when he was mutated by Demonicus, and never really seen again.
You say that because Thor was equally matched with Godzilla in physical strength here he's already at a disadvantage because Godzilla has gone through several upgrades since then. I don't agree. First off, they were matched in physical strength, that isn't exactly proof enough to say you win a battle, especially since Thor strikes with a big hammer and doesn't wrestle with people. I also didn't help but recognize that Thor is using one hand to do this feat, which suggests he wasn't exactly using all of his strength (he's using his hammer to stay in the air). The narration may say they were equally matched, but it's clearly obvious that if someone is using one of their arms opposes to two they wouldn't be as strong. The true question is, what makes this Godzilla physically weaker than the ones to be shown in the future? When have we seen Godzilla matching strength with someone as physically opposing as Thor in his comic history? I don't think he has, so I would think this would be a high end feat if anything. His other feats don't quite add up and wouldn't mean that he's instantly stronger than Thor here.
I will get into this when I make my full counter post.
I know this is merely an opener, but you could have just gave me an idea of what Godzilla brought to the fight. Instead you listed off how Godzilla has advantages over Thor without explaining how. To be honest, how exactly does Godzilla have more powerful energy projection than Thor, not to mention how is faster or more durable? This I will wait to see.
Its a opener, what where you doing putting so much effort into it lol. Openers for me is just "Hi, look at my character, here is the wiki basic of what they can do." for me. Im lazy with my openers, look at any of my debates.
However when I post tomorrow, the actual debate itself, I will cover all this.
Its a opener, what where you doing putting so much effort into it lol. Openers for me is just "Hi, look at my character, here is the wiki basic of what they can do." for me. Im lazy with my openers, look at any of my debates.
Lmao, that's true, however I was trying to spare myself the trouble for doing all of what I did now in my next post.
Its a opener, what where you doing putting so much effort into it lol. Openers for me is just "Hi, look at my character, here is the wiki basic of what they can do." for me. Im lazy with my openers, look at any of my debates.
Lmao, that's true, however I was trying to spare myself the trouble for doing all of what I did now in my next post.
As I touch on earlier, GZ from Marvel comics already put up a good fight. let me touch on that now.
You say that because Thor was equally matched with Godzilla in physical strength here he's already at a disadvantage because Godzilla has gone through several upgrades since then. I don't agree. First off, they were matched in physical strength, that isn't exactly proof enough to say you win a battle, especially since Thor strikes with a big hammer and doesn't wrestle with people. I also didn't help but recognize that Thor is using one hand to do this feat, which suggests he wasn't exactly using all of his strength (he's using his hammer to stay in the air).
He was using one hand, while using his hammer to propel himself with all its power. I can easily argue it that why.
The narration may say they were equally matched, but it's clearly obvious that if someone is using one of their arms opposes to two they wouldn't be as strong.
Faulty logic since Thor was using his hammer that moves 2x speed of light, and has all the power in it to propel Thor forward. Otherwise, Thor could not push back as he has no way to keep from being push back. He needssolid ground, or a oppossing force in this case the hammer.
Not that it matters. The narrator stated the facts.
And Even Marvel GZ Roar was enough to send Thor flying.
Add to all this, Marvel Godzilla shown strength to match Thor anyway with both his shown interactions with Herculese, Thors equal in strength, and Savage Hulk in the editors note.
There is no question, Marvel GZ is as strong as Classic Thor.
The true question is, what makes this Godzilla physically weaker than the ones to be shown in the future?
He is weaker in durability, and energy output. Not so much as strength.
When have we seen Godzilla matching strength with someone as physically opposing as Thor in his comic history?
I showed examples above. There also this one time Godzilla out strength a Tri Monster the size of a small city.
That was cool too.
I don't think he has, so I would think this would be a high end feat if anything.
Nothing high end about consistency of his Marvel days when Marvel writers took Showa Godzilla (the only Godzilla at the time) into their comics on how they saw GZ to their own heroes.
His other feats don't quite add up and wouldn't mean that he's instantly stronger than Thor here.
Is he stronger than Thor on his best days? nah, fact is Godzilla I am using has feats to show 616 Thor, the strongest version of fictional Thor, is not manhandling anything. Also this is not even the strongest version of Godzilla. The two strongest versions are literal Gods that create and destroy galaxies or Universes in some Godzilla fiction. crazy shit their, I am just using Movies, and Comics.
Now thats out of the way, lets talk what else GZ brings to the fight.
Strength
While Marvel GZ proves Godzilla can compete, there is many feats that match the feats of Red Hulk, Savage Hulk, and Classic thor to show GZ is not some weak power house.
Godzilla is a casual city wrecker by just walking. Could Thor do this damage? Easy with effort. Godzilla with no effort, just walking around for a stroll, ends cities. A feat people like Red Hulk, or Wonder man can never hope to do.
Even in the movies Heisei GZ was able to slam Battara with enough force under water to force to shake the sea floor, and cause the volcanic line to fissure open.
Godzilla strength is such that he can rip apart beings like Rodan, rip apart Mechagodzilla, or crush Ghidorah to death. All causal city busters themselves who tank moutain crushing attacks.
So all in all by feats, Godzilla versions always been in Marvel High Tier weight classes. Marvel Godzilla is just the icing on the cake as even the Marvel writers showed this.
Durability
This is one of the core of GZ winning over Thor. Godzilla while not able to tank planet busting attacks in one go, neither can Thor. Like Godzilla, and ANY HIGH TIER, Thor been KOed 1000s of times by mountain busting attacks that hit him over and over in a lengthy battle. No different with Godzilla, however Godzilla has one thing over Thor. Ever since post Showa time frame, including Marvel GZ, Godzilla has had a very effective Healing Factor. His raw Durability combine with this Healing Factor is insane.
For raw durability we have such feats.
Immune to conventional weapons of the modern day military. Just like most High Tiers.
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Godzilla tanks a massive carpet bomb run to no effect.
Godzilla's eye socket alone withstands a Maser shot. These Maser guns can shoot half a mile through solid granite in power. Yet GZ Eyeball is all the damage it does to him.
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Godzilla is flown into the upper atmosphere, and then dropped to achieve easy orbital entry speeds to crash in the city. Then has over 90,000 tons of Kaizer Ghidorah stomp on him from the same height. Next panel, GZ is up and ready to go.
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Two examples of Godzilla able to withstand swimming miles through the earth's lava channels, well below the sea floors, or sleeping in active Volcanoes for years at a time with no hindrance.
GZ shrugged off every time the entire Bakini Tolls Nuke Tests by Soviets and Americans as stated early in the movie. While in the movie some un informed Navy Captain stated those nukes were kilotons, the Scientist himself stated the modern Nuke would fail since he knew already they tried Megaton Nukes on Godzilla in the Bakini Tolls tests and failed.
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IDW Godzilla easily tanks a modern Nuke in the megatons range.
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IDW Godzilla tanks the nuclear explosion of a power plant.
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IDW Godzilla is nailed by 3 high yield Nukes underwater. He ends up buried by the moutain range of rubble, only to dig out and make his way to the Arctic Circle.
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2014 Godzilla tanks the largest Nuke in American History. The Castle Bravo. 15 Megaton Nuke. As seen there is no shown damage to Godzilla, even with his eyes open.
This is the damage of the Castle Bravo that this movie GZ shrugged off with no damage. Mile crter that is 1000s of feet deep, taking out the island.
These are incredible feats that blow away Iron Man, Namor, Wonder Man, and other High Tiers who have gave Thor a hard time. I say gave a hard time, because in comics, they have. I have even better feats, but starting small lol. Now lets cover Regen. Godzilla greatest attributes that helps his already formidable durability is the regen. Wolverine like Healing Factor.
Godzilla is punctured in the hand and shoulder by Biolantte. Heals all the wounds in seconds of pulling them out, no damage shown in the battle thereafter.
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Godzilla here gets impaled by the Black Hole durable crystals of Space Godzilla, in less than a few panels we see all wounds healed.
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Godzilla eyeball regrows in a few panels after getting blown apart by the Maser gun when we see both eyes fine in his fight with Anguirus.
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Godzilla heals from the slashes and stabs of Gigan in the next panel.
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Heals all the damage shown here from the Dart missiles in two panels.
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Godzilla heals all arrow stabs in his body from alien made gear. Then heals a heart stab from a alien made spear. He heals all the damage in one panel.
So not only are you dealing with insane durability that match most of Hulk's feats, but a regen factor that shows clearly in the films and comics. Every time GZ gets beaten into seemingly a lost, he gets back in the fight fresh.
Nuclear Power
In real world science, their is four major forces in the Universe. Electro-Magnetic, Gravity, Weak Nuclear, Strong Nuclear. Two of the 4 major forces is what Godzilla is. This is his bread and butter. Godzilla honestly has shown more energy out put in his Nuke power than Thor has with Mjolnir.
Heat Beam shown to have Nuclear level power.
Powerful enough that Human Torch who is near sun levels gets KOed by it.
SHIELD uses science fiction heat proof materials to contain GZ, and it melts easy.
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The Heat Beam does the same here as well. This synthetic diamond made heat absorbing shield of the Super X2 is design to tank the heat, absorb it, and blast it back x10. It melts.
Even the metals of the 23rd Century design to be anti GZ get cleave through after a few hit. people who made this metal also made Cyborgs that lift multiple tons, run at super speed, gene created Ghidorah, and time travel like Sunday drives. These advance people made these metals to battle GZ, and they crumble before the power. As does King Ghidorah's head here.
I still have tons more of feats to show, but lets get out of the way already the only logical counter that is, "Thor sat in the sun, this wont harm him." That be wrong. The Sun only burns at 27,000 degrees. That is a lot, but guess what? Nuclear fire burns at the same temperatures. The material used above and against GZ are also nuke proof, and design to tank the heat, yet it melts to GZ fire every time. Also before you question it, yes, their is things HOTTER than out sun. GZ hits those hotter temps. Add to this, Nuclear energy is also kinetic in force, not just heat.
This is minor stuff. Stuff to show GZ in Thor's class as it is. This is not the end game stuff that shows why Thor is fighting a uphill battle yet. Just giving ya low end tastes :)
The only thing I went all out in is Strength really, and saving the durability, speed, and energy projection feats for next post. Just giving you a "idea" that was not in the opener.
As I touch on earlier, GZ from Marvel comics already put up a good fight. let me touch on that now.
I haven't seen enough of the fight to show that was a good fight. All I have seen is he was capable of matching Thor's physical strength. Unless there is something i'm missing here, I didn't see them go blow for blow or anything like that, so it could be that in terms of striking Thor was superior. All we really seen was that in terms of physical strength, they were pretty much equal or so it's described, and that Godzilla's winds could push Thor back. Impressive, but not enough to say he beats the Odinson.
He was using one hand, while using his hammer to propel himself with all its power. I can easily argue it that why.
You could say it was like that, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I mean, Thor could have been using most of his strength, yes, but the fact that he had to hold himself in the air by spinning his hammer while pushing against a skyscraper with Godzilla, suggests he was at a disadvantage there. If he had something to stand on, the results could have been different. I do however think this doesn't really matter though, because it's more so who strikes harder than who exactly is stronger. Based off feats I've shown, I think Thor is superior in that category.
Faulty logic since Thor was using his hammer that moves 2x speed of light, and has all the power in it to propel Thor forward. Otherwise, Thor could not push back as he has no way to keep from being push back. He needssolid ground, or a oppossing force in this case the hammer.
I'll agree that the two have relatively the same physical strength.
And Even Marvel GZ Roar was enough to send Thor flying.
The wind was capable of pushing Thor back, but it didn't actually harm Thor in anyway. Not really sure what this is actually supposed to mean.
Add to all this, Marvel Godzilla shown strength to match Thor anyway with both his shown interactions with Herculese, Thors equal in strength, and Savage Hulk in the editors note.
Well the bit with Hercules isn't a good example in your case. Hercules actually flipped Godzilla over even though he was seemingly trying to stomp down. That proves to me that Hercules was capable of overpowering his foot, so that doesn't really help your case. If anything it shows that Thor who you stated is Hercule's equal could accomplish the same feat.
As for the part with Hercules, you just post a single part of Hulk getting stomped on. That's way too vague for me to know what happened prior. You should post the entirety of it, because for all I know he could have stomped on an off-guard/distracted Hulk.
There is no question, Marvel GZ is as strong as Classic Thor.
I can agree with that, but some of your evidence to say so isn't exactly accurate in showing this.
He is weaker in durability, and energy output. Not so much as strength.
Okay.
I think that's more or less the important things above.
Strength
Most of the strength feats you presented are simply him walking through skyscrapers which I believe isn't something hard for someone of his size and mass. If you look closely at the scans he's even bigger than most of the things he's walking through, so it's impressive, but not as much as you probably think it is. The most impressive thing you've shown is him tossing that small city sized creature.
Godzilla is a casual city wrecker by just walking. Could Thor do this damage? Easy with effort. Godzilla with no effort, just walking around for a stroll, ends cities. A feat people like Red Hulk, or Wonder man can never hope to do.
Well, it's not as if he's destroying the entire city at one time, he's literally walking through it. Obviously Thor wouldn't be capable of doing this exact thing to due to the fact that he's hundreds of times smaller. I'm also not sure why you keep bringing up Wonder Man and Red Hulk, because those are two people Thor has shown superiority in some way to in the past.
I'm not going to lie, Thor doesn't really have much lifting feats, so I don't think there is much more to go in terms of lifting. Though as you already depicted in the Godzilla vs Marvel comic, that their strength is relatively equal. I think i'll go in to more focus on something that will play a bigger role in this battle, striking power. This is a place where I think Thor has Godzilla beat by quite a good margin and with it will be capable of overwhelming Godzilla and his strength advantage (if it's even there). It's pretty obvious that Thor is stronger with his hammer than just his fists, which is what my next part will show.
Now, I've shown a striking feat already that show's Thor's blows can be quite formidable, though the feat I showed isn't enough to prove that Thor can lay the beat-down on the lizard. Here is another showing of how Thor's hammer can be quite devastating. In Fear Itself, Thor was capable of overpowering Nul (Hulk with magical hammer) and sending him hurling into space and then across the planet. He did this after taking constant beatings throughout the story arc, and barely having time to heal from them. In this fight alone he was being slapped around by Hulk and Thing (with magical hammers).
Another feat that shows off his tremendous striking power is from Avengers VS X-Men when Thor goes up against Emma who possesses 1/5 of the Phoenix Force. Emma goes in her diamond form (which would be much more durable thanks to the Phoenix Force) to protect herself from Thor's blows. Things didn't work out well here because her diamond form was completely shattered and sent all the way into space.
If you ask me that is some insane striking power. It should be sufficient enough to cause Godzilla harm and with repeated blows even drop him. I would like to add one more scan however, because I want to show that Thor is capable of harming beings of Godzilla's size too, though the two feats presented above should have been enough.
Fighting creatures bigger than himself isn't anything new to Thor. He's fought the Midgard Serpent, Surtur, Demogorge and even Galactus himself. He's also shown that he's capable of hurting these guys, even if isn't lasting at times, it's still more than enough to show that he's capable of doing harm to Godzilla. Take Galactus for example, during the Mighty Thor, the Odinson while protect the World Seed along with Asgard charges at Galactus and strikes him right in the head. Before you say "that's a weakened Galactus", he had actually eaten a planet beforehand.
You can clearly see that the attack harmed Galactus as he yells out in pain. Also looking out how fast Thor was moving shows that Godzilla probably won't be capable of stopping it as even Surfer seemed incapable of (i'm pretty sure if he could he would). So an attack moving faster than Godzilla can react and strong enough to strike him will be troublesome. Godzilla is big, he's going to have trouble hitting someone like Thor who's pretty fast in the air.
Durability:
This is one of the core of GZ winning over Thor. Godzilla while not able to tank planet busting attacks in one go, neither can Thor. Like Godzilla, and ANY HIGH TIER, Thor been KOed 1000s of times by mountain busting attacks that hit him over and over in a lengthy battle. No different with Godzilla, however Godzilla has one thing over Thor. Ever since post Showa time frame, including Marvel GZ, Godzilla has had a very effective Healing Factor. His raw Durability combine with this Healing Factor is insane.
Thor has shown better feats of durability then Zilla, which will allow him to stay in the fight longer. Also yeah there are times when Thor falls to blows on mountain level, but on consistency it takes more than that. When he's brawling with characters like Hulk, Hyperion, Mangog, Gladiator, they are striking with more force than that is needed to destroy a moutain. Just because you don't see environment damage, doesn't mean it's not on that level. If comics were like that, then the earth would be destroyed many times over already. One thing I do agree with here is that Zilla does have a healing factor that can be troublesome.
Damn, that was like a min respect thread, lol. Godzilla seems to be incredibly durable with a healing factor, but I still haven't seen anything that shows he's more durable than Thor. The Odinson is literally a beast when it comes to taking punishment and should be more than capable of taking the damage that's sent his way, whether it be physical or energy based. Don't worry, i'll present some feats to show Zilla is outclassed here, however before I do that I want to bring up one thing. You've shown plenty of feats of Zilla shrugging off nukes, however I'm letting you know that's not enough to say he's safe from Thor's blows (as I've shown above). When the Avengers encountered Modok in their mission to find Spider-Woman, Modok was bragging about how his force-fields could tank the force of nuclear explosion/bomb or something of that magnitude. A strike from Thor easily took care of his force-field.
The only reason I bring this up is to show how easily Thor dealt with someone who's force-fields tank the force of a nuclear explosion, so showing feats of Zilla tanking nukes won't be enough. As my other scans showed, Thor strikes much harder than any nuclear explosion known to man by far, so there's that too.
Back to the durability of Thor, he's tanked some heft blows which would make me believe Zilla isn't taking him out of the fight anytime soon. For example, during Uncanny Avengers he took Death Sentry bull-rushes Thor at many times the speed of light through space, and smashing him into a distant planet.
In the very same issue we have Thor being struck with a blow that can be felt across the world from Death Seed Sentry again.
These are incredible feats that blow away Iron Man, Namor, Wonder Man, and other High Tiers who have gave Thor a hard time. I say gave a hard time, because in comics, they have. I have even better feats, but starting small lol. Now lets cover Regen. Godzilla greatest attributes that helps his already formidable durability is the regen. Wolverine like Healing Factor.
Wait, what? I know you and many Viners don't like to hear it, but Thor holds back considerably on earth. It makes it even worse when he's fighting character's he considers his friend/ally like Iron Man. If you think someone like Iron Man can give Thor a hard time , than you are greatly underestimating the Odinson. Funny thing is, he's one-shotted Namor already while he was in the rain (which makes him stronger) by accident.
That just shows he hold backs a lot against them. Iron Man has even stated multiple times in one form or another that he isn't as nearly as powerful as Thor. Out of all of them, Simon is the only one who could potentially do that. Low-balling isn't good man.
Zilla's healing factor is quite good, but the feats you've shown are from piercing damage, how well does he heal from lightning or hammer strikes on Thor's level? I would like to see that, because based off him get pierced by half those weapons makes me believe that Mjolnir can go straight through his body like it did the Builder.
Not saying this would have a large effect due to the hammer being smaller than Zilla by far (plus he'll heal), but it could potentially leave Zilla vulnerable to an attack (especially if Thor does it through his head or vital organ). The healing factor will eventually be taxed and if it proves really difficult, Thor could increase the intensity of his attack and attack certain areas to get a knockout.
Nuclear Power:
In real world science, their is four major forces in the Universe. Electro-Magnetic, Gravity, Weak Nuclear, Strong Nuclear. Two of the 4 major forces is what Godzilla is. This is his bread and butter. Godzilla honestly has shown more energy out put in his Nuke power than Thor has with Mjolnir.
I'm actually not sure if you believe this yourself to be honest. Most of the feats you've shown basically show that Zilla has nuclear breath which is very hot not that it's actually more powerful than Thor's energy attacks. Human Torch has hotter attacks than Thor yet we know who is more powerful. See what i'm saying?
Powerful enough that Human Torch who is near sun levels gets KOed by it.
It's not stated Johnny was going Nova levels, so we can't assume he was. He doesn't even like going that extreme because it's dangerous and if I remember correctly drains him. At this point in time there is nothing here in that scan to prove he was going nova levels, not that it would matter much.
SHIELD uses science fiction heat proof materials to contain GZ, and it melts easy.
Heat proof doesn't actually give us enough information on how much heat it can sustain. We are debating high tier characters who break the laws of physics every issue. We are dealing with Shield here too, and they aren't know for having the most durable tech anyways. Is there any proof that suggests these were capable of sustaining the heat of lighting? We can't really gauge off of 'heat proof" alone.
The Heat Beam does the same here as well. This synthetic diamond made heat absorbing shield of the Super X2 is design to tank the heat, absorb it, and blast it back x10. It melts.
Thor survives in the sun. I don't see anything here which suggests Godzilla's nuclear breath is as hot as that. Diamond would melt at way less than sun temperatures, so it's not that impressive when compared to Thor.
Even the metals of the 23rd Century design to be anti GZ get cleave through after a few hit. people who made this metal also made Cyborgs that lift multiple tons, run at super speed, gene created Ghidorah, and time travel like Sunday drives. These advance people made these metals to battle GZ, and they crumble before the power. As does King Ghidorah's head here.
Again, there still isn't anything to prove that his nuclear breath is as hot as the sun, which again isn't even enough to harm Thor.
I still have tons more of feats to show, but lets get out of the way already the only logical counter that is, "Thor sat in the sun, this wont harm him." That be wrong. The Sun only burns at 27,000 degrees. That is a lot, but guess what? Nuclear fire burns at the same temperatures. The material used above and against GZ are also nuke proof, and design to tank the heat, yet it melts to GZ fire every time. Also before you question it, yes, their is things HOTTER than out sun. GZ hits those hotter temps. Add to this, Nuclear energy is also kinetic in force, not just heat.
You are basically trying to say that because he has nuclear breath, it's as hot as the sun, because a nuclear bomb rivals those temperatures. It doesn't work that way, you have to show it being at those levels. Thor casually stands in the sun, heck the guy literally brought Gorr in there with the younger and older version of himself to fight. None of these feats come close to showing Thor is going to be burned by Godzilla's nuclear breath. The fact that Thor can stand casually in the sun, shows that it would take much more heat to actually burn the Odinson.
Just to make you have to prove to me more that he can burn Thor, here is another feat showing Thor can take extreme heat. Here he battles Firelord, a herald of Galactus who's primary attacks are heat. Thor is literally battling this guy in the heat for quite some time.
You may be saying "but Thor is sweating and loosing energy in that scan". Truth is, he is, but Fire Lord's heat is far hotter than the sun, which greatly shows how resistant to heat Thor is. He's literally battling Firelord in there while he's loosing his energy, which is highly impressive.
To show you how much hotter Firelord's heat is compared to the sun, here Surfer pretty much sums it up. The heat of stars is nothing to Surfer, but even he can succumb to the heat of Firelord.
Godzilla's nuclear breath will cause no trouble in terms of heat. I'm more than sure of that. Do I believe in terms of power can Godzilla's nuclear breath cause Thor harm? In some minor way or form, but not close to enough to put the Odinson down. From what you've stated, it seems to be mostly a heat based attack, not to mention nukes aren't going to do much to someone in this class, i'm pretty sure we both can agree on that.
This is minor stuff. Stuff to show GZ in Thor's class as it is. This is not the end game stuff that shows why Thor is fighting a uphill battle yet. Just giving ya low end tastes :)
I hope there is much more, because as of now, Godzilla seems to be the one fighting an uphill battle here. His only method of winning here is trying to strike Thor and that simply won't be enough.
The only thing I went all out in is Strength really, and saving the durability, speed, and energy projection feats for next post. Just giving you a "idea" that was not in the opener.
Okay.
Battle Info:
This is going to be an intense and destructive battle. Well any with that big lizard would be because he's so large, lol. Along with the striking power of Thor. there are two things in this battle that could possibly come into play which I didn't talk about. The are Thor's weather manipulation and energy manipulation. Let's start with his weather manipulation, which I think can have a pretty good role in this battle. I'm not quite sure how well Godzilla can tank lighting, especially Thor's lightning, so i'll get into more detail when you actually show me how he can deal with. For now, I would like you to keep in mind that Thor is more than capable of releasing lightning bolts large enough to not only hurt Zilla but encompass his entire body. In Thor God Of Thunder, he showed his lightning can spread across an entire moon.
Zilla won't be capable of escaping that kind of lightning. This also shows how powerful his lighting is because he used it to mend the moon back together by having his lightning melt the earth (keeping the moon together).
Finally into my last part, energy manipulation. This is going to be a big factor in the debate and will prove very difficult for a stationary character like Zilla to do anything against. If Zilla constantly uses his nuclear breath, Thor can just absorb all of it into his hammer. In fact, what is Zilla powered by, some form of energy if i'm correct? Thor can simply drain the energy from Zilla's body and release the energy back in a more powerful attack, which i'm more than sure will cause the lizard some damage.
Conclusion:
I think Thor has him edged out pretty much every where it matters and this is what should take the Odinson to victory. Here are some of the advantages, I believe both sides have.
Thor
Striking power
Durability
Speed
Intelligence
Energy projection
Godzilla
Physical strength (only due to him have more quantifiable feats like lifting)
Healing factor
Judging by this, I think it's pretty clear Thor has the advantages where it matters and should be more than capable of taking Zilla out of the battle. The battle will be quite lengthy due to the healing factor of Zilla which I believe Thor could overcome will repeated blows and lightning bolts. I mean Zilla has fallen in battle quite some times, am I right? Keep in mind Thor is going to be a literal small wrecking ball against Zilla. He's going to have trouble tagging Thor who's quite fast in the air and should be more than capable of avoiding them brute (I know those scans of Zilla hitting down aircrafts are coming).
Zilla is a big target so Thor can't miss, while Thor is a small target Zilla will miss!
I haven't seen enough of the fight to show that was a good fight. All I have seen is he was capable of matching Thor's physical strength. Unless there is something i'm missing here, I didn't see them go blow for blow or anything like that, so it could be that in terms of striking Thor was superior. All we really seen was that in terms of physical strength, they were pretty much equal or so it's described, and that Godzilla's winds could push Thor back. Impressive, but not enough to say he beats the Odinson.
Well lets touch on this some more now. Here is the majority of the fight.
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As seen, Godzilla fought for dozens of pages the combine might of Fantastic Four (Torch, Thing, Sue, and Reed), Iron Man, Wasp, Hank Pym, Vision, Thor, and backup from a SHIELD Helecarrier. All of this could not stop GZ at all, and while GZ did not beat them, he did take them all on for a lengthy match with no sign of slowing down. It took a child that connected with this GZ to turn him away.
Now, do you see Thor verse all these characters, including himself doing half as well? I do not.
You could say it was like that, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I mean, Thor could have been using most of his strength, yes, but the fact that he had to hold himself in the air by spinning his hammer while pushing against a skyscraper with Godzilla, suggests he was at a disadvantage there. If he had something to stand on, the results could have been different. I do however think this doesn't really matter though, because it's more so who strikes harder than who exactly is stronger. Based off feats I've shown, I think Thor is superior in that category.
Well to be fair, your argument is as hypothetical as my own. So in the end, neither of us can prove either way this view. I will go by what is narrated myself.
I'll agree that the two have relatively the same physical strength.
That was my point. Im not arguing him stronger than Thor, only by feats on par.
The wind was capable of pushing Thor back, but it didn't actually harm Thor in anyway. Not really sure what this is actually supposed to mean.
It shows the power of the roar was enough to blast Thor back against his will, that is impressive.
Well the bit with Hercules isn't a good example in your case. Hercules actually flipped Godzilla over even though he was seemingly trying to stomp down. That proves to me that Hercules was capable of overpowering his foot, so that doesn't really help your case.
If anything it shows that Thor who you stated is Hercule's equal could accomplish the same feat.
If you actually read the scan, Hercules nearly failed to do it, and only through his hardest effort was he able to off balance GZ. He only threw back one foot, which is nowhere near the whole body weight behind a attack. The effort again, straining Hercules to the max. It helps my case.
Thor could do it against a single foot. Not the whole body weight thrown in it, like the State Building feat.
As for the part with Hercules, you just post a single part of Hulk getting stomped on. That's way too vague for me to know what happened prior. You should post the entirety of it, because for all I know he could have stomped on an off-guard/distracted Hulk.
That is the entirety. It was a panel in the editors note on Godzilla in the Marvel Universe. Im sure Hulk was stepped on by accident, off guard, point is the Editor of Marvel showed GZ doing this in his note on GZ entering Marvel, and that speaks volumes where he stands.
I can agree with that, but some of your evidence to say so isn't exactly accurate in showing this.
I think its accurate enough. GZ always and should be on par with Thor, Hercules, Savage Hulk. Its proven when Marvel showed this when they put Godzilla into their canon world.
Strength
Most of the strength feats you presented are simply him walking through skyscrapers which I believe isn't something hard for someone of his size and mass. If you look closely at the scans he's even bigger than most of the things he's walking through, so it's impressive, but not as much as you probably think it is. The most impressive thing you've shown is him tossing that small city sized creature.
Here is the problem. We are comparing strength yes? Well, size and mass are huge factors in strength. You say its not impressive for a being like him, you are right. however, we are comparing Godzilla to high tier beings like Marvel Powerhouses. Thats the point, and in Marvel canon guys like Juggernaut, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Thor, hulk, ect all had issues of buildings falling on them, or lifting buildings of those sizes. GZ casually walks through that or kicks down buildings of those scales with ease. That is the point.
Well, it's not as if he's destroying the entire city at one time, he's literally walking through it. Obviously Thor wouldn't be capable of doing this exact thing to due to the fact that he's hundreds of times smaller. I'm also not sure why you keep bringing up Wonder Man and Red Hulk, because those are two people Thor has shown superiority in some way to in the past.
Yes, Thor is superior to both Wonder Man and Rulk, however both of them have gave Thor hell in fights.
I'm not going to lie, Thor doesn't really have much lifting feats, so I don't think there is much more to go in terms of lifting. Though as you already depicted in the Godzilla vs Marvel comic, that their strength is relatively equal. I think i'll go in to more focus on something that will play a bigger role in this battle, striking power. This is a place where I think Thor has Godzilla beat by quite a good margin and with it will be capable of overwhelming Godzilla and his strength advantage (if it's even there). It's pretty obvious that Thor is stronger with his hammer than just his fists, which is what my next part will show.
Now, I've shown a striking feat already that show's Thor's blows can be quite formidable, though the feat I showed isn't enough to prove that Thor can lay the beat-down on the lizard. Here is another showing of how Thor's hammer can be quite devastating. In Fear Itself, Thor was capable of overpowering Nul (Hulk with magical hammer) and sending him hurling into space and then across the planet. He did this after taking constant beatings throughout the story arc, and barely having time to heal from them. In this fight alone he was being slapped around by Hulk and Thing (with magical hammers).
That is a good feat of striking, but unlike Hulk who weighs mere 1500 pounds, GZ weighs on average 55,000 pounds. 36 times Hulks weight. Im not seeing Thor doing to GZ what he did to Hulk at all.
Another feat that shows off his tremendous striking power is from Avengers VS X-Men when Thor goes up against Emma who possesses 1/5 of the Phoenix Force. Emma goes in her diamond form (which would be much more durable thanks to the Phoenix Force) to protect herself from Thor's blows. Things didn't work out well here because her diamond form was completely shattered and sent all the way into space.
You forgot what happen to Thor afterward. He was cut to bits by Emma's diamond pieces, and then the Diamond form beat him down. Breaking Diamond is good, but GZ Skin is stated to be as hard as Diamond.
Unlike Emma though, GZ skin is so much thicker than Emma's whole body, not including GZ massive mass beyond skin. Nor the fact GZ's body is tough enough to casually withstand nuclear forces inside his body that can bust a moon with no damage.
If you ask me that is some insane striking power. It should be sufficient enough to cause Godzilla harm and with repeated blows even drop him.
I think Thor can indeed harm GZ, and drop him if this was say Showa GZ, and not later versions that have crazy damage soak, and regen to keep chugging.
2014 GZ is shown to tank the Permian Impact in his official background comic with no damage. Standing tall after after being near ground zero.
Millennium GZ tank the force of a near stated, and shown Black Hole, and then the force of a dead on Black Hole that sucked in a large portion of the city in his second film.
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IDW GZ also pulled off the same feat, surviving a stated mini black hole that destroyed the mountains, Mecha GZ, King Ghidorag, and Gigan.
Add this all to the earlier feats of GZ tanking Mega Ton to dozens of Mega Tons of force of damage with no damage, along with the feats above show just how Tough GZ is. Again, along with all these feats of crazy forces being withstood, you have Marvel GZ who can tank the best attacks thrown at him by all the Marvel Heroes shown. Thor is simply not dropping this GZ easy, much less one with the Regen feats I will show off again.
I would like to add one more scan however, because I want to show that Thor is capable of harming beings of Godzilla's size too, though the two feats presented above should have been enough.
Their is a difference between hurting Godzilla size beings, and hurting Godzilla. As shown above, the feats of what GZ tank with little damage, or no shown damage is consistent higher than any mere "large monster" Thor faced.
Fighting creatures bigger than himself isn't anything new to Thor. He's fought the Midgard Serpent, Surtur, Demogorge and even Galactus himself. He's also shown that he's capable of hurting these guys, even if isn't lasting at times, it's still more than enough to show that he's capable of doing harm to Godzilla. Take Galactus for example, during the Mighty Thor, the Odinson while protect the World Seed along with Asgard charges at Galactus and strikes him right in the head. Before you say "that's a weakened Galactus", he had actually eaten a planet beforehand.
You can clearly see that the attack harmed Galactus as he yells out in pain. Also looking out how fast Thor was moving shows that Godzilla probably won't be capable of stopping it as even Surfer seemed incapable of (i'm pretty sure if he could he would). So an attack moving faster than Godzilla can react and strong enough to strike him will be troublesome. Godzilla is big, he's going to have trouble hitting someone like Thor who's pretty fast in the air.
That was a weaken Galactus, as many times Galactus eaten a planet before hand, he is never more than starving. He had to eaten 3-4 planets to just tangle with the Celestials. In your scan Galactus was fighting Asgard and Odin, and feeding on one planet does not really account for much. Add to this, Thor was nearly done in from making Galactus cry out from the bee sting of a attack.
Godzilla like wise tank Thors best hit in Marvel anyway and fought on fine.
Durability:
Thor has shown better feats of durability then Zilla, which will allow him to stay in the fight longer.
Not at all. Thor has no healing, at all. GZ durability feats above rival anything Thor done in raw durability. GZ beats him out here.
Also yeah there are times when Thor falls to blows on mountain level, but on consistency it takes more than that.
Not at all. Many characters never busted more than mountains in fights.
When he's brawling with characters like Hulk, Hyperion, Mangog, Gladiator, they are striking with more force than that is needed to destroy a moutain.
They have high end feats, but on average, Gladiator cannot even beat Colossus without a lenghty brawl. Hyperion cannot even beat down a depower Juggernaut when it matters. Hulk feats are ALL OVER THE PLACE depending on plot and anger levels.
There is no consistency with Thor high ends and his foes than there is with GZ.
Damn, that was like a min respect thread, lol. Godzilla seems to be incredibly durable with a healing factor, but I still haven't seen anything that shows he's more durable than Thor. The Odinson is literally a beast when it comes to taking punishment and should be more than capable of taking the damage that's sent his way, whether it be physical or energy based. Don't worry, i'll present some feats to show Zilla is outclassed here, however before I do that I want to bring up one thing. You've shown plenty of feats of Zilla shrugging off nukes, however I'm letting you know that's not enough to say he's safe from Thor's blows (as I've shown above). When the Avengers encountered Modok in their mission to find Spider-Woman, Modok was bragging about how his force-fields could tank the force of nuclear explosion/bomb or something of that magnitude. A strike from Thor easily took care of his force-field.
Yes, however Godzilla tanks on average multi mega tons with no damage. Modik claim with modern nukes would only be a megaton, and not impressive anymore than Iron Man. Way different scales of nuke output. Not to mention the city busting/country busting asteroid impacts, and mini Black Holes.
The only reason I bring this up is to show how easily Thor dealt with someone who's force-fields tank the force of a nuclear explosion, so showing feats of Zilla tanking nukes won't be enough. As my other scans showed, Thor strikes much harder than any nuclear explosion known to man by far, so there's that too.
Not at all. His best hit cratered the moon, and that good feat with Gorr, but GZ tank moon busters as well.
Space Godzilla is crazy strong, and durable. Stated to form in the forces of a large black hole in space, and absorb the enrgies of a exploding sun to power him. He already destroyed possibly smaller planets, but stated planets on his way to our Solar System. Thats a lot of energy and power.
In his fight with GZ, the moon is wiped out, and the combine force of GZ and Space GZ exploded the planet. One could say GZ cannot tank a plant busting blast, but in the end, GZ conquered Hell and reborn again on earth again anyway. Other than both going all out on power, Space GZ giving his best cannot harm GZ at all with just his power.
Back to the durability of Thor, he's tanked some heft blows which would make me believe Zilla isn't taking him out of the fight anytime soon. For example, during Uncanny Avengers he took Death Sentry bull-rushes Thor at many times the speed of light through space, and smashing him into a distant planet.
In the very same issue we have Thor being struck with a blow that can be felt across the world from Death Seed Sentry again.
Nothing about this is better than the Permian Impact, or the moon busting attacks of Space Godzilla going all out on GZ time and again.
Wait, what? I know you and many Viners don't like to hear it, but Thor holds back considerably on earth. It makes it even worse when he's fighting character's he considers his friend/ally like Iron Man. If you think someone like Iron Man can give Thor a hard time , than you are greatly underestimating the Odinson. Funny thing is, he's one-shotted Namor already while he was in the rain (which makes him stronger) by accident.
Well to be fair Namor been beaten by Thing Underwater. Namor jobs alot. Also Thor has gone all out on Tony's armor after Civil War, and failed to one shot Extremist.
That just shows he hold backs a lot against them. Iron Man has even stated multiple times in one form or another that he isn't as nearly as powerful as Thor. Out of all of them, Simon is the only one who could potentially do that. Low-balling isn't good man.
No one is saying these characters are Thor level, they are not, but as weak they are to GZ, they gave Thor fights. GZ would be Thors equal in stats as shown already, only better with Regen, and power output.
Zilla's healing factor is quite good, but the feats you've shown are from piercing damage, how well does he heal from lightning or hammer strikes on Thor's level? I would like to see that, because based off him get pierced by half those weapons makes me believe that Mjolnir can go straight through his body like it did the Builder.
Not saying this would have a large effect due to the hammer being smaller than Zilla by far (plus he'll heal), but it could potentially leave Zilla vulnerable to an attack (especially if Thor does it through his head or vital organ). The healing factor will eventually be taxed and if it proves really difficult, Thor could increase the intensity of his attack and attack certain areas to get a knockout.
Fair enough question. Electricity of any level never bother GZ. Lightning is made of heat which also does not bother GZ.
This device absorbs GZ nuke attacks, and increase it to 10 times. GZ tanks these attacks of this hotter than the sun temps fine.
As seen, GZ also tanks lightning with no issues, it in facts empowers him in some films.
In the 60s, GZ casually walked through the sum total of electricity that powered Tokyo redirected by the army into the power lines here. This was the weakest Godzilla too.
Godzilla tanks Space GZ Electromagnetic blasts that can wrecks planets.
So all in all, I see no reason for Thor's lightning to even factor. As for the piercing attacks, lets REALLY jump into the regen feats :) Yes Thor could possibly pierce GZ body, but the size of the hammer means what to GZ healing?
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He was impaled all over his body here, and back to fighting normal. I already showed GZ Regen vs heart attacks of incredible damage and still heal fine. Attacks that would drop Wolverine.
Even regenerating his brain in seconds post his power up from Fire Rodan, which was halfway through the film line up, carrying this level of Regen through the next 2 films.
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Here we see GZ have his eyes blown out, and his neck blown into nothing pretty much. Should be dead and KO, yet he heals it all in a few panels, and decimates Mecha GZ.
In this feat we see Godzilla survives the Oxygen Destroyer which is a chemical that removes all Oxygen in a area. This is devastaing to any living organism as Oxygen is a key substance to living tissue. Without it your sells will die on the molecule level. Godzilla survives this in IDW. As does Heisei, Showa, and some of the Millinium versions of the character.
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In all the Godzilla films, Oxygen Destroyer removes oxygen from the attack point, making for molecular level attacks on anything living. Even non living things like metals that have Oxygen in them disintegrate.
Here Heisei GZ, who was in meltdown, with a already heavy taxed Healing factor tanks two attacks that nearly cut himin half, and fights on fine.
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Godzilla best regen feat is when he catches and holds Destroyah's horn attack. this attack is pure Oxygen Destroyer design to by pass any metal as well any living matter. Godzilla catches it as it sizzles the hell out of his hand, and breaks it off before his hand fully heals.
This is the level of regen we are discussing. Wolverine levels. Levels of Healing that will make a small foot hole in a 50 meter creature a non factor every which way.
Nuclear Power
I'm actually not sure if you believe this yourself to be honest. Most of the feats you've shown basically show that Zilla has nuclear breath which is very hot not that it's actually more powerful than Thor's energy attacks. Human Torch has hotter attacks than Thor yet we know who is more powerful. See what i'm saying?
I see what your saying, and now is the time to tap into why Torch cannot hold a candle to GZ energy output :)
It's not stated Johnny was going Nova levels, so we can't assume he was. He doesn't even like going that extreme because it's dangerous and if I remember correctly drains him. At this point in time there is nothing here in that scan to prove he was going nova levels, not that it would matter much.
Human Torch is immune to fire. That is said and shown. He does not need to go Nova levels, becuase his body can tanke that level of heat naturally. GZ KOed him, and it makes sense. Its not just heat, but kinetic, and radiation.
Heat proof doesn't actually give us enough information on how much heat it can sustain. We are debating high tier characters who break the laws of physics every issue. We are dealing with Shield here too, and they aren't know for having the most durable tech anyways. Is there any proof that suggests these were capable of sustaining the heat of lighting? We can't really gauge off of 'heat proof" alone.
I agree, but its a feat that its hotter than nuclear fire which burns at sun temps.
Thor survives in the sun. I don't see anything here which suggests Godzilla's nuclear breath is as hot as that. Diamond would melt at way less than sun temperatures, so it's not that impressive when compared to Thor.
The sun? Really? No who else tanks the sun? Space Godzilla.
In films and books GZ heat beam hurts the monster who tank exploding stars. So not seeing what you said as any defense.
Add to all this, the beam has stand alone feats to more than show to harm Thor with its kinentic force.
In the Millennium Godzilla base game, GZ Heat Beam explodes a moon size meteor heading for earth.
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Heat Beam is so powerful, it can bust through a force field empowered by the force being harnessed from a black hole in another sector of space!
The fact is, GZ Heat beam is more powerful than sitting in the sun. Sounds crazy, but the force inside a sun apparently is not even enough to blow apart a mass like earth. Crazy, right? I thought so till researching it. The threat is the heat. GZ Heat Beam has heat index hotter than suns, with energy output that deifies sense.
Again, there still isn't anything to prove that his nuclear breath is as hot as the sun, which again isn't even enough to harm Thor.
Yes it is. Im sorry you failed to comprehend. I already showed the X2 absorbing nuclear fire, burns at sun temperatures naturally, and melts to GZ beams. Space Godzilla absorb exploding stars and formed in a black hole damage by it. Human Torch who is immune to sun heats KOed. Your not convincing anyone by denying it burns hotter than the sun.
Now with that said, I have not even touch the Red Spiral Beam. This attack is so powerful, that it trumps the normal heat beam GZ has.
Kaizer Ghidorah, one of the strongest beings yet is utterly blown into a country size blast by the Spiral Beam.
Destroyah, was ultimately beaten by the Red Spiral in IDW in one shot.
Mecha GZ who had heat beam proof armor, and absorb the energy of it was blown to pieces by a single Spiral Beam.
GZ one shots, blowing to pieces Space Godzilla durable body with said beam.
IDW has the most powerful monsters and Godzilla to date. Yet the strongest monster in the comic series, a monster who decimated the whole IDW GZ cast at the same time by itself, was casually destroyed by the Spiral Beam.
Godzilla can certainly damage Thor, and his nuke ability far supersedes what Science knows. Its half of the fundamental forces of the universe, and GZ can use it to insane effect.
IDW GZ clash of beams with Space GZ blows up the planet. Wrecking the moon well before that.
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Hesiei GZ proved to burn all the oxygen on earth, as well all surface life through a meltdown, a release of the Nuclear energy stored in his body. After that was dealt with, GZ when into another form of melt down, burning hot enough to melt to the planet core, destroying the planet.
This is the level of nuclear force in GZ throughout multiple medias. World Breaking Hulk effects.
You are basically trying to say that because he has nuclear breath, it's as hot as the sun, because a nuclear bomb rivals those temperatures. It doesn't work that way, you have to show it being at those levels.
I really dont. Nuclear reaction and fire burns at those temperatures. Sometimes hotter, but never less. Science man, sorry. Not that it matters when I showed GZ feats in Nuke ability.
Thor casually stands in the sun, heck the guy literally brought Gorr in there with the younger and older version of himself to fight. None of these feats come close to showing Thor is going to be burned by Godzilla's nuclear breath. The fact that Thor can stand casually in the sun, shows that it would take much more heat to actually burn the Odinson.
Nothing about Thor showing he is withstanding these forces with no damage. Thor been harm by way less consistently much less the high ends of what GZ is putting out through out various medias.
Just to make you have to prove to me more that he can burn Thor, here is another feat showing Thor can take extreme heat. Here he battles Firelord, a herald of Galactus who's primary attacks are heat. Thor is literally battling this guy in the heat for quite some time.
You may be saying "but Thor is sweating and loosing energy in that scan". Truth is, he is, but Fire Lord's heat is far hotter than the sun, which greatly shows how resistant to heat Thor is. He's literally battling Firelord in there while he's loosing his energy, which is highly impressive.
To show you how much hotter Firelord's heat is compared to the sun, here Surfer pretty much sums it up. The heat of stars is nothing to Surfer, but even he can succumb to the heat of Firelord.
I can claim the same for GZ as Firelord just now did, as his nuke attacks are more than heat base. They are kinetic, and radiation that rival stars on average, and surpass them like out own sun.
Godzilla's nuclear breath will cause no trouble in terms of heat. I'm more than sure of that. Do I believe in terms of power can Godzilla's nuclear breath cause Thor harm? In some minor way or form, but not close to enough to put the Odinson down. From what you've stated, it seems to be mostly a heat based attack, not to mention nukes aren't going to do much to someone in this class, i'm pretty sure we both can agree on that.
Its far from just heat base, and it comes not just in Red Spiral Beam, or Heat Beam, but also Nuclear Pulse. nuclear Pulse is a AOE energy burst from GZ to slam a foe with nuclear force.
Blasts back 90,000 tons of King Ghidorah back easy, even though Ghidorah is wrapped around GZ.
Used to fry all the Destroyah creatures around and on him with pure nuclear energy. Notice the crater around GZ from the blast and heat.
Devoured by a giant monster from Hell (yes, GZ fights Hell itself) he blasts the giant being with a Nuclear Pules.
Impressive show of power here. These mecha Godzilla's show their force fields are immune to the Heat Beam's power, but Godzilla's Nuclear Pulse knocks all four of them all down. Damaging them in the process.
In the Manga version of the final film, GZ nuclear pulse tears apart Destroyah who was tanking multiple Red Spiral Beams.
Crazy huh? This is the GZ power and types of attacks Thor has to deal with.
Speed
Since I have not gotten to it yet, I might as well adress the earlier comment of Thor zipping around GZ. this is false.
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Thor is below Wolverine, all these statements, amd feats show as much. No low balling, just truth.
Thor is consistently written and stated as only as fast as any peak street leveler. Yes he can throw his ass at lightspeed and beyond, but his combat speed and normal flight is nothing of the sort. GZ on the other hand is fast as hell.
Fully able to tag super sonic jets in front of his face, where it would be the hardest to follow.
Able to react to the Supersonic missiles of Mecha Godzilla after they are fired.
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In the movies Rodan and Battara are said to be Mach 5. We know this is true in itself as Rodan flight is so fast, he destroys a city by his flight path over it. Battara like wise keeps up with Rodan in their fight. Godzilla not only reacts to Rodan and Battara, but he catches Rodan in his attack flight, as well knocks Battara away with his other hand at the same time. Reaction at its best.
Godzilla catches multiple super sonic jets out of the air with his claws and teeth.
Easily dodges Hercules attack, and even states "far more agile than his ponderous appearance".
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Hypersonic Rodan is countered by GZ when Rodan tries to finish him, and the supersonicship at full throttle is caught in mid air.
There is no excuse for Thor to dodge attacks from GZ at all. You say hitting Thor is a issue? It really is not. GZ can not only tag him with his Supersonic reactions, but he already fought human size super heroes in Marvel daily, and has AOE attacks to boot.
Counters
Battle Info:
This is going to be an intense and destructive battle. Well any with that big lizard would be because he's so large, lol. Along with the striking power of Thor. there are two things in this battle that could possibly come into play which I didn't talk about. The are Thor's weather manipulation and energy manipulation. Let's start with his weather manipulation, which I think can have a pretty good role in this battle. I'm not quite sure how well Godzilla can tank lighting, especially Thor's lightning, so i'll get into more detail when you actually show me how he can deal with. For now, I would like you to keep in mind that Thor is more than capable of releasing lightning bolts large enough to not only hurt Zilla but encompass his entire body. In Thor God Of Thunder, he showed his lightning can spread across an entire moon.
Zilla won't be capable of escaping that kind of lightning. This also shows how powerful his lighting is because he used it to mend the moon back together by having his lightning melt the earth (keeping the moon together).
All pretty good, but nothing Space GZ cannot surpass in damage output.
Finally into my last part, energy manipulation. This is going to be a big factor in the debate and will prove very difficult for a stationary character like Zilla to do anything against. If Zilla constantly uses his nuclear breath, Thor can just absorb all of it into his hammer. In fact, what is Zilla powered by, some form of energy if i'm correct? Thor can simply drain the energy from Zilla's body and release the energy back in a more powerful attack, which i'm more than sure will cause the lizard some damage.
I was waiting for this, and its a good idea, but several reason why it fails. Let me list the biggest one. Hulk vs Thor.............. now now, let it sink in..... Hulk.... vs....... Thor........... got it? Good. This debunk sthat whole argument best. Never has Thor drain beings of nuclear potential like Hulk or Godzilla. Ever. he never did it when fighting GZ in Marvel either. Problem with draining is GZ is a nuclear reactor, and makes his own energy. Much like Hulk. not to mention whatever Thor drain, he returns as that form of energy. which will just re empower GZ anyway.
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Hit by Nuke, absorbs the radiation and gains the Heat Beam as a result.
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Godzilla absorbs the energy of this Nuclear Plant to recover from a previous fight.
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Two examples how he can drain nuclear Power Plants.
Godzilla gains his first amp in Heisei in Godzilla vs king Ghidorah movie. Here he absorbs all the nuke energy of a submarine, and in turn grows from 80 feet to 100 feet, as well stated as more powerful.
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Godzilla gain his second amp in Godzilla vs Mecha Godzilla. Here he absorbs the radiation soaked Fire Rodan's body. With this amp he heals his Regen increases and he generate enough heat to melt armor design to tank the heat beam. He also gain the Spiral Ray ability. All these abilities stay with him through the era.
Godzilla also shown the ability to manipulate the energy of Space Godzilla.
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Godzilla Jr. shows the same ability when he instantly absorb enough Radiation to keep Tokyo a dead city for 100s of years. Then he transforms into a adult Godzilla.
"Return it tenfold" Thor says. That will boost GZ. thanks for the snack GZ says. Its why he never used it on Hulk, or anyone other than beings like Wrecker who has to drain energy for energy. Hulk, like Godzilla, makes his own energy.
So by your own argument, you are helping GZ when Thor tries this.
Final Thoughts
This been a good match, and I laid out my cards on the table. Here is my final thoughts.
Strength wise they are near even enough.
Durability wise GZ edges it as his raw durability matches Thor's own high ends and average. However, the Wolverine level Regen edges it for sure.
Speed wise, accuracy wise, and AOE attacks wise GZ can land hits on Thor more often than miss. GZ already dealt with human size foes a few times already, and dealt with Thor as well other Marvel Heroes.
Energy projection is firmly in GZ side. He has the energy attacks to harm Thor who will simply accumulate damage. its not one shotting him, but GZ operates on a greater level than anyone Thor face on his own. It why he needed the whole Avenger roster to help with GZ in Marvel alone.
Radiation Absorption. Lets say Thor tries to drain him, it wont work well. GZ is a self sustain energy being. Its why Thor cannot drain Silver Surfer, Quasar, Fire lord, Hulk, ect. Lets say Thor hits GZ with all that Radiation Ten Fold. Oh damn. Big mistake and one he may as well make.
So in the end, the only real way to deal with GZ is BFR him, which is not a option. In which case GZ edges this firmly with energy attacks, speed, and regen factor in. This battle will not be quick, it will be destructive. Still, GZ will win the day.
Go ahead and make your best final post yet, and we can go to votes my friend. This was a lot of fun.
As seen, Godzilla fought for dozens of pages the combine might of Fantastic Four (Torch, Thing, Sue, and Reed), Iron Man, Wasp, Hank Pym, Vision, Thor, and backup from a SHIELD Helecarrier. All of this could not stop GZ at all, and while GZ did not beat them, he did take them all on for a lengthy match with no sign of slowing down. It took a child that connected with this GZ to turn him away.
Okay, I believe you are blowing the power of Godzilla a little out of proportion here. Yes, he's powerful, but he did not defeat all these characters. In fact, even if he did, none of them is as powerful as Thor is. There durability wasn't sufficient enough to take any damage from him without being potentially being one-shotted. What i'm trying to say is the only one powerful enough to do anything was Thor and he didn't seem to be harmed by Zilla. Every interaction the two had showed Thor not being hurt by Zilla, so i'm not exactly seeing this as any way to prove superiority.
Let's look over all there interactions in that fight.
Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Human Torch and others charge at Zilla, and he uses nuclear breath to slow them down (except Johnny). The attack didn't do much as they can all be seen after this in the fight. If Iron Man and Vision can take a nuclear breath, so can Thor much easier.
This is where it gets interesting. You made it seem as if Thor would have difficulty harming Zilla, though it's shown clearly on panel he's capable of so. In fact, it's stated Zilla hasn't felt such pain before in his life. I would agree with that, because Zilla hasn't fought anyone more powerful to Thor in the past.
Godzilla unleashes powerful winds to blow Thor back. Impressive, but it does no damage.
Finally the two are shown as equal in strength when Zilla tries to push a building over and Thor is capable of matching his strength to keep it in place.
So as I've shown, there is nothing there to show superiority over Thor. It's pretty clear the author didn't have the idea to make Zilla more powerful than Thor. Just because you can take on a group of heroes, doesn't mean you are more powerful than all of them. Thor wasn't harmed in that fight so you can't prove he was more powerful than him. The others? Yes. Thor? No.
Now, do you see Thor verse all these characters, including himself doing half as well? I do not.
Thor fighting all these characters including himself? I see what you mean there, but it sounds weird and it doesn't work that way. All I've gotten from all of that above is that Zilla and Thor are equal in strength. That alone. Thor is still more powerful.
Well to be fair, your argument is as hypothetical as my own. So in the end, neither of us can prove either way this view. I will go by what is narrated myself.
I can agree with them being equal in physical strength.
That was my point. Im not arguing him stronger than Thor, only by feats on par.
Okay.
It shows the power of the roar was enough to blast Thor back against his will, that is impressive.
It's impressive, but it did no damage, so it really doesn't mean much here.
If you actually read the scan, Hercules nearly failed to do it, and only through his hardest effort was he able to off balance GZ. He only threw back one foot, which is nowhere near the whole body weight behind a attack. The effort again, straining Hercules to the max. It helps my case.
I did read the scan, and still Hercules was able to flip him over. If you apply are stepping on something, most of your weight is going to be included in it too.
Thor could do it against a single foot. Not the whole body weight thrown in it, like the State Building feat.
Thor was still more than capable of matching Zilla's strength. They were shown as equals according to your own words too.
That is the entirety. It was a panel in the editors note on Godzilla in the Marvel Universe. Im sure Hulk was stepped on by accident, off guard, point is the Editor of Marvel showed GZ doing this in his note on GZ entering Marvel, and that speaks volumes where he stands
Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that we don't know what happened prior to this.
I think its accurate enough. GZ always and should be on par with Thor, Hercules, Savage Hulk. Its proven when Marvel showed this when they put Godzilla into their canon world.
I agree. I just felt some of the ways you tried presenting this were incorrect to say the least.
Here is the problem. We are comparing strength yes? Well, size and mass are huge factors in strength. You say its not impressive for a being like him, you are right. however, we are comparing Godzilla to high tier beings like Marvel Powerhouses. Thats the point, and in Marvel canon guys like Juggernaut, Iron Man, Wonder Man, Thor, hulk, ect all had issues of buildings falling on them, or lifting buildings of those sizes. GZ casually walks through that or kicks down buildings of those scales with ease. That is the point.
Again, I get your point, but the fact still remains he's doing most of that because of his size. If he was the size of Thor, and had the same amount of strength, he wouldn't be capable of doing that. That is the point i'm trying to get you to understand. Size does effect how characters interact with the environment. Take Fing Fang Foom for example. He can literally do what Zilla does, walking and destroying everything in his wake by simply moving.
Yet when matched against a character like Hulk who isn't nearly as big (yet still stronger), he gets thrown to the moon.
Hulk can't walk through buildings and such because of his size, but he's still stronger than FFF. I'm not saying that Zilla is weaker than Thor, but i'm saying a lot of his strength feats of him walking through skycrapers is due to his size and weight.
I also don't get the constant low-balling you are doing where you actually believe someone of Thor's class would struggle with a building, especially since I've already shown him lifting the a castle and the largest mountain in Jotunheim without any problems.
Yes, Thor is superior to both Wonder Man and Rulk, however both of them have gave Thor hell in fights.
I wouldn't say hell. Wonder Man matched Thor when he was using only his physicals, and once he used his other abilities, Simon got one-shotted. You say it as if Simon is weak, which he is no where close to being. Captain America says he has strength on the level of the Sentry, and i'm pretty sure that's enough to give Thor problems.
Also when has Rulk been shown to give Thor hell? Are we really going to bring up Loeb's writing that had him doing all kinds of things? If we did however use this, he beat a holding back Thor. When Thor came back he was shown more powerful than Rulk to the point he was about to kill him. What's funny is when Thor came back, and stopped holding back, Rulk didn't land a single blow.
That is a good feat of striking, but unlike Hulk who weighs mere 1500 pounds, GZ weighs on average 55,000 pounds. 36 times Hulks weight. Im not seeing Thor doing to GZ what he did to Hulk at all.
You are correct on this point, but as shown in the Godzilla entering Marvel comic, Thor was already shown strong enough to harm Zilla greatly. Essentially anything I post now is just to reinforce that. Also I wasn't betting on Thor knocking Zilla into the air has he did Hulk, I was just showing that he has tremendous striking power which is more than enough to harm Zilla. I mean if we really want to go there, in Fear Itself Thor has shown the power to actually harm his father Odin with a blow. Though it didn't do much, it still hurt him and his father is a Skyfather.
You forgot what happen to Thor afterward. He was cut to bits by Emma's diamond pieces, and then the Diamond form beat him down. Breaking Diamond is good, but GZ Skin is stated to be as hard as Diamond.
That doesn't matter at all. That wasn't what I was getting at, I was merely stating the feat. What happened afterwards isn't really relevant, especially since this version of Emma is more powerful than Zilla too. Only thing you could say is the shards wouldn't be as much of a problem due to the fact that he's much larger than Thor, so it wouldn't be capable of doing much to his large body.
Unlike Emma though, GZ skin is so much thicker than Emma's whole body, not including GZ massive mass beyond skin. Nor the fact GZ's body is tough enough to casually withstand nuclear forces inside his body that can bust a moon with no damage.
More durable than Emma with 1/5 Phoenix Force? I can agree with that, however I don't think he's much more durable. The shards were capable of piercing Thor who has taken Wolverine's Adamantium claws without get diced in half and such, so I'm going to say it would go through Zilla too. Thor has better piecing resistant feats than him.
As for the last part, where is it ever shown Zilla can take moon destroying nuclear forces inside his body without damage? That doesn't sound possible based of what he's shown, unless your saying his insides are more durable than his outsides?
2014 GZ is shown to tank the Permian Impact in his official background comic with no damage. Standing tall after after being near ground zero.
So this is essentially the meteor that killed the dinosaurs? It didn't destroy the planet, but wiped all life off the face of the earth. You believe Thor couldn't survive this too?
Millennium GZ tank the force of a near stated, and shown Black Hole, and then the force of a dead on Black Hole that sucked in a large portion of the city in his second film.
Thor has resisted the pull of a black hole in order to save Red Hulk. He did this by flying past it at fast speeds.
To make it even better, Beta Ray Bill who has the powers of Thor himself was capable of resisting a black hole.
Again, here he resists two black holes at once.
So, I think Thor trumps Zila here.
IDW GZ also pulled off the same feat, surviving a stated mini black hole that destroyed the mountains, Mecha GZ, King Ghidorag, and Gigan.
Based off your scans, it looked like he was hurt pretty badly from it and at the end looks to even be unconscious, so I think Thor has done better with black holes.
Add this all to the earlier feats of GZ tanking Mega Ton to dozens of Mega Tons of force of damage with no damage, along with the feats above show just how Tough GZ is. Again, along with all these feats of crazy forces being withstood, you have Marvel GZ who can tank the best attacks thrown at him by all the Marvel Heroes shown. Thor is simply not dropping this GZ easy, much less one with the Regen feats I will show off again.
I think despite all you've said, I've shown a pretty good job that Thor is capable of dropping Zilla. Your only saving grace here is his regenerative qualities, which can prove a problem.
Their is a difference between hurting Godzilla size beings, and hurting Godzilla. As shown above, the feats of what GZ tank with little damage, or no shown damage is consistent higher than any mere "large monster" Thor faced.
So Thor hurting Galactusisn't enough to prove he can hurt Godzilla? A hungry Galactus is more powerful than Zilla, I think that's pretty obvious, and the fact that you think that is not enough confuses me. Galactus is stronger, more durable, and more powerful, yet Thor hurt him. If that's not enough you can just go see Thor's fights with the Midgard Serpent, a snake that can reach so large, Zilla would look like a chew toy. Size doesn't always matter.
That was a weaken Galactus, as many times Galactus eaten a planet before hand, he is never more than starving. He had to eaten 3-4 planets to just tangle with the Celestials. In your scan Galactus was fighting Asgard and Odin, and feeding on one planet does not really account for much. Add to this, Thor was nearly done in from making Galactus cry out from the bee sting of a attack.
I'm not saying Galactus was at full power, beause he was no shape or form in that condition, however he wasn't completely starving because he had eaten a planet beforehand. Also eating 3-4 planets to tangle with a Celestial is do to there immense power, he obviously wouldn't have need that much to deal with Asgard.
By the way I still don't understand the low-balling of Thor here. You say Thor was nearly done in from that attack yet he went on to fight Surfer onto the moon right after that. Surfer literally bull-rushed him into the moon and Thor didn't feel it, but Surfer did. That attack didn't effect Thor in any way or form other than the impact sending him back. If really want to go that way, I can say Thor was weakened to because the World Tree had caused him a wound which was constantly hurting him. At the end of the day, you call it a bee sting attack and say Galactus was crying out in the same sentence. How does that make sense? Surely we both know Big G felt that one.
Godzilla like wise tank Thors best hit in Marvel anyway and fought on fine.
I'm starting to really question some of the things you say now, because you say stuff that isn't even shown on panel. Show me where it states that was Thor's best hit? It wasn't stated at all. Thor knows better than to go around releasing his most powerful blows on a creature while on his friends and allies are nearby. This was from the classic era, an era which was big on the whole Thor always holds back thing (not so much currently). You say Zilla fought on fine, yet the narration clearly says this. He was hurt a lot from the attack, let's not try to dismiss that.
Again, let's not act like it didn't do much.
Not at all. Thor has no healing, at all. GZ durability feats above rival anything Thor done in raw durability. GZ beats him out here.
What does healing have to do with durability. They are two separate things. Deadpool has way better healing than Thor, yet we know who is more durable of the two. The only reason I think you believe this is because Godzilla's feats of durability are more quantifiable to us. A lot of your feats show Zilla taking nuclear bombs and such, so you can gauge how much damage it is. Thor on the other hand takes damage from insanely powerful beings like Hulk, Mangog, Destroyer Amour, Silver Surfer, Thanos, ect and we don't get a direct comparison to how powerful each attack is. I think that gives you the impression he's more durable. It's not true though.
Not at all. Many characters never busted more than mountains in fights.
That is entirely incorrect. Even so, writers aren't going to have their characters destroy everything, I mean the characters still live on the planet. You know how many times characters have fought on other planets that mean nothing and we can actually see collateral damage because we will never see the planet again? An example would be Gladiator destroy that unknown planet. Morg and Surfer destroying a planet in there battle. Thor destroying a planet in his battle against Beta Ray Bill. List goes on.
Yes, however Godzilla tanks on average multi mega tons with no damage. Modik claim with modern nukes would only be a megaton, and not impressive anymore than Iron Man. Way different scales of nuke output. Not to mention the city busting/country busting asteroid impacts, and mini Black Holes.
You always say without damage, yet when I look at the scans he looks very much damaged. I already shown Thor having better feats of durability too.
Not at all. His best hit cratered the moon, and that good feat with Gorr, but GZ tank moon busters as well.
He "cratered the moon" while not even striking it directly, but Gorr. It also did more than that as the moon below him was being destroyed as well as one in the distance, so really it's far better than you let on. You can see the moon below them breaking apart as well as one far away.
I haven't seen Zilla tank moon busters, but when it happens, please let me see this feat you often bring up.
In his fight with GZ, the moon is wiped out, and the combine force of GZ and Space GZ exploded the planet. One could say GZ cannot tank a plant busting blast, but in the end, GZ conquered Hell and reborn again on earth again anyway. Other than both going all out on power, Space GZ giving his best cannot harm GZ at all with just his power.
Great feat of power, but in terms of durability it doesn't show anything because he died.
Nothing about this is better than the Permian Impact, or the moon busting attacks of Space Godzilla going all out on GZ time and again.
I would disagree, the meteor that killed the dinosaurs isn't packing more power than Death Seed Sentry. Not even Space Godzilla is. This version of the Sentry is insanely powerful to the point it's been pretty clearly stated his power is more than or equal to that of every hero on earth. Rogue had the powers of pretty much everyone to lift one foot of Exitar and than Sentry lifted the other by himself.
Well to be fair Namor been beaten by Thing Underwater. Namor jobs alot. Also Thor has gone all out on Tony's armor after Civil War, and failed to one shot Extremist.
That is current Namor. When Thor one-shotted him it was in the classic days when Namor was much more impressive and was actually in the higher tier level of strength oppose to what he is now. Also using that as a way to gauge how Thor is incapable of one-shotting people much weaker isn't a fair assessment. When Thor stated he wasn't holding back anymore, that didn't necessarily mean he wanted to literally knock Stark out or anything. He was just using more power than he usually does. Had he wanted to, Stark would have been in worse shape.
No one is saying these characters are Thor level, they are not, but as weak they are to GZ, they gave Thor fights. GZ would be Thors equal in stats as shown already, only better with Regen, and power output.
That doesn't make any sense. You say they are weak, and they have given Thor a fight and then say that Zilla is equal to Thor in stats. Not making much sense there. They don't even give Thor as good fights when you actually take in what's happening.
Fair enough question. Electricity of any level never bother GZ. Lightning is made of heat which also does not bother GZ.
Where did you come to that conclusion? Has Zilla tanked lightning on any level? Yet alone on the level the God it produces? I think not.
This device absorbs GZ nuke attacks, and increase it to 10 times. GZ tanks these attacks of this hotter than the sun temps fine.
You know who else is resistant to extreme temperatures? Hyperion. That didn't stop Thor from having him literally yell out in pain when struck with a lightning bolt.
Red Hulk is also resistant to great heat, and he was hurt by it too.
Hyperion gets his powers from the sun, so he has high resistance to the sun's heat. Rulk can reach extremely hot temperatures when mad and can burn hot enough to harm the Hulk (who has heat resistant feats like Zilla if not better).
I don't think your little minor showings from earth's electricity is enough to compare to Thor's lightning. It's magical in nature so you can't completely compare it to the natural lightning either.
As seen, GZ also tanks lightning with no issues, it in facts empowers him in some films.
That is merely some small natural lightning. Nothing compared to the lightning Thor can call forth.
As seen, GZ also tanks lightning with no issues, it in facts empowers him in some films.
I don't see any indication that the lightning is empowering him.
In the 60s, GZ casually walked through the sum total of electricity that powered Tokyo redirected by the army into the power lines here. This was the weakest Godzilla too.
That doesn't look like much, and it doesn't even compare to Thor's lightning which has encompassed an entire moon. That's much more lightning than Tokyo could produce. Also it seems to be slowing Zilla down a bit, not to mention the lightning was seemingly spread out through the multiple power lines. Thor's would be directed all in one spot.
The fact that Thor can also amplify his strikes with lightning makes his attacks more powerful. You already presented Thor causing Zilla pain with a single blow, so imagine one that's being amped with lightning.
Godzilla tanks Space GZ Electromagnetic blasts that can wrecks planets.
Where was it shown that his electromagnetic blast could wreck a planet? All you've shown that it along with Zilla's blast could destroy a planet, not by himself. I would also like to believe they were unleashing more power when they destroyed the planet than now, as it's pretty apparent with the planet exploding. He didn't tank the full force here. I wouldn't even compare this attack to magical lightning. Even if he was tanking an attack on that level, Thor's lightning has blocked a beam that was going to destroy the planet. This not only shows how powerful Thor's lightning can be, but how large he can make his lightning bolts.
As you can see here, the beam was literally going to destroy the planet and Thor's lightning stopped it.
Thor's lightning is too powerful for Zilla to simply shrug off. If he can get injured from blasts other creatures send his way, he's going to get harmed from Thor's lightning. This dwarfs any amount of lightning Zilla has tanked or pretty much any attack he's tanked.
So all in all, I see no reason for Thor's lightning to even factor.
You showed that Zilla has tanked lightning that doesn't even compare to Thor's and even from what you showed he's been hurt by less than what Thor can produce. Thor's going to unleash these powerful attacks on Zilla because he's a giant creature, who Thor doesn't hold back much on if they are powerful. Lightning is very much a factor.
As for the piercing attacks, lets REALLY jump into the regen feats :) Yes Thor could possibly pierce GZ body, but the size of the hammer means what to GZ healing?
I wasn't saying it was going to play much of a role. I was mostly stating it's something that could potentially happen seeing as how hard Thor strikes and how weaker things can get through Zilla's hide. It would be interesting if Thor got inside him and released lightning from the inside of his body, though. Would remind me of when Thor got swallowed by the Midgard Serpent, and was stuck inside it's body, and found out the inside of it's body was durable, however. I don't think the same would apply for Zilla.
He was impaled all over his body here, and back to fighting normal. I already showed GZ Regen vs heart attacks of incredible damage and still heal fine. Attacks that would drop Wolverine.
What are those? Diamonds or crystals? If those were capable of getting through his body, than Mjolnir may suffice in getting through it too. As for his healing factor, I don't see why you are comparing it to Wolverine's because partially Zilla only looks more impressive because he's more durable than Logan.
Even regenerating his brain in seconds post his power up from Fire Rodan, which was halfway through the film line up, carrying this level of Regen through the next 2 films.
This feat depends on the context. Was the entire brain destroyed, or just a small part which effected it's processing? Even if he can regenerate body parts like that, it doesn't matter. Thor won't be attacking those areas, in-fact he just needs to knock Zilla out.
Here we see GZ have his eyes blown out, and his neck blown into nothing pretty much. Should be dead and KO, yet he heals it all in a few panels, and decimates Mecha GZ.
This feat works for you and against you. It works for you because it shows that Zilla is capable of healing incredibly fast, but it works against you because he was literally almost killed by Mecha Godzilla. He had his entire neck blasted away and from what I know of Mecha Godzilla, he lacks feats on the level of Thor. So what's stopping Thor from replicating these level of attacks with his lightning?
Also, Thor wouldn't watch Zilla just regenerate, he would press his attack, and even if he didn't he seen it worked the first time. He could just do it again, and literally kill Zilla before he recovers this time.
This is the level of regen we are discussing. Wolverine levels. Levels of Healing that will make a small foot hole in a 50 meter creature a non factor every which way.
I'm honestly going to be honest, his healing factor is really impressive, and will prove difficulty for Thor to put down. Though, Thor has always been someone who fights by pressing his attacks. When he strikes, he strikes again and again, and doesn't really let up. He'll do this to take Zilla out before his healing factor can keep up. He possibly won't die, but he'll certainly will be KO'ed. Just to prove that Thor is someone who presses his attacks, here are some examples.
Thor pressing his attacks against Nul.
Gladiator
And even Kurse.
These are all characters who are in the same strength range as Thor and Godzilla, so you can't give any statements on how this won't be effective other than Zilla is larger. Which I don't think is a problem seeing as how that just makes him a larger target, and easier to be struck by. It's also already been shown a single blow from Thor who didn't seem to be going all out could harm him.
I see what your saying, and now is the time to tap into why Torch cannot hold a candle to GZ energy output
We shall see.
Human Torch is immune to fire. That is said and shown. He does not need to go Nova levels, becuase his body can tanke that level of heat naturally. GZ KOed him, and it makes sense. Its not just heat, but kinetic, and radiation.
This is my problem with the whole heat argument. You think that every attack that should produce large amounts of heat is going to. This is comics, it doesn't necessarily work that way. Just because Zilla has nuclear breath, doesn't mean he's actually packing sun level temperatures. If that were the case, plenty of things would be burnt around him , which includes himself seeing as he's been burned by attacks less than his own temperatures. I never seen anywhere that Torch is immune to fire, however he is more subtle to attacks if he isn't in his Nova form. I'm sure if he was that attack wouldn't have had that effect.
I agree, but its a feat that its hotter than nuclear fire which burns at sun temps.
Still much below what Thor has tanked.
The fact is, GZ Heat beam is more powerful than sitting in the sun. Sounds crazy, but the force inside a sun apparently is not even enough to blow apart a mass like earth. Crazy, right? I thought so till researching it. The threat is the heat. GZ Heat Beam has heat index hotter than suns, with energy output that deifies sense.
You really need to stop trying to apply real world physics into debates, it doesn't always work that way. If we took out some of your own calculations, some of your feats wouldn't be as impressive as they are.
Yes it is. Im sorry you failed to comprehend. I already showed the X2 absorbing nuclear fire, burns at sun temperatures naturally, and melts to GZ beams. Space Godzilla absorb exploding stars and formed in a black hole damage by it. Human Torch who is immune to sun heats KOed. Your not convincing anyone by denying it burns hotter than the sun.
I'm not convincing anyone, or your not convincing anyone. You are literally trying to put real world physics into comic book feats, lol. The characters break physics every day, you shouldn't entwine the two in almost all your debates. I already showed Thor only sweating and loosing some of his energy from Fire Lord's flames which can harm Surfer if he's in there long enough. I'm letting you know, no one that votes is going to think that Space Godzilla has more resistance to heat than someone like Surfer who flies through exploding stars, supernova's on a daily basis. Fact of the matter is, Thor tanked heat from a guy who's heat can cause Surfer harm, which is more impressive than anything Zilla is bringing in terms of energy projection.
I would also like you to know that just because you can absorb an attack that doesn't mean you can tank them in the slightest. Ms. Marvel I believe has absorbed power from the sun to go Binary however she would die in it's wake. Same thing applies here. I would love to see the result of Zilla or Space Godzilla inside a sun to show you they wouldn't take it's heat as easily as you make it seem.
Kaizer Ghidorah, one of the strongest beings yet is utterly blown into a country size blast by the Spiral Beam.
The blast didn't look like the size of a country. It only looked that way because he's way above the earth, so when you look down below it looks like it took up all that space. Regardless, the feat is impressive as his blast sent him a very far distance away.
Destroyah, was ultimately beaten by the Red Spiral in IDW in one shot.
Cool, but I don't know these characters like you do, so I'm not entirely show how powerful this Destroyah is.
Mecha GZ who had heat beam proof armor, and absorb the energy of it was blown to pieces by a single Spiral Beam.
GZ one shots, blowing to pieces Space Godzilla durable body with said beam.
Doesn't this just maybe, just maybe make you understand that not every attack has to benefit from heat? If his amour was heat resistant, and Zilla got through it, maybe it's because his blast was powerful, not entirely because it was too hot for Mecha Godzilla to take.
IDW has the most powerful monsters and Godzilla to date. Yet the strongest monster in the comic series, a monster who decimated the whole IDW GZ cast at the same time by itself, was casually destroyed by the Spiral Beam.
This is that giant creature you showed me at the beginning that's city size, right? Other than that, what have you showed about him other then him being one of the strongest beings? Based off the little you shown, Zilla seemed to be winning that fight pretty handily the entire time.
Godzilla can certainly damage Thor, and his nuke ability far supersedes what Science knows. Its half of the fundamental forces of the universe, and GZ can use it to insane effect.
He can, I never said he couldn't like you have said about Thor's lighting. All I've said is that this heat argument you keep bringing up isn't a factor because Thor has tanked more hotter temperatures.
I really dont. Nuclear reaction and fire burns at those temperatures. Sometimes hotter, but never less. Science man, sorry. Not that it matters when I showed GZ feats in Nuke ability.
All i'm going to say is this is comics, not real life.
Nothing about Thor showing he is withstanding these forces with no damage. Thor been harm by way less consistently much less the high ends of what GZ is putting out through out various medias.
What? Thor literally stood in the sun with literally no damage.
In his encounter with Gor, him alongside the two other Thors (Young Thor and Old King Thor), bull-rushed Gorr into the sun. If the sun could harm him, why would he take his enemy in there? The reason they were defeated was because Gorr was more powerful, not because of the sun itself.
You are literally ignoring all of this, especially the Fire Lord bit. Thor was loosing energy and sweating from Fire Lord's heat which is much more hotter than the sun as Surfer noted. As I've said again, it even causes Surfer discomfort, the guy who can fly through exploding stars and Supernova's. It also doesn't help your case when Thor's equal Beta Ray Bill, the guy who has the powers of Thor was in a the heart of a star. In fact he didn't even care, he was knocked out previously, and just proceeded to fly out of it.
I can claim the same for GZ as Firelord just now did, as his nuke attacks are more than heat base. They are kinetic, and radiation that rival stars on average, and surpass them like out own sun.
Is there any proof that Zilla's are beyond that of a normal nuclear attack? Firelord's has flat out been stated to be much more hotter than them. Proof is everything.
Its far from just heat base, and it comes not just in Red Spiral Beam, or Heat Beam, but also Nuclear Pulse. nuclear Pulse is a AOE energy burst from GZ to slam a foe with nuclear force.
You're the one who's debating it like it's only heat, I was actually trying to help you and show you that your own attacks is more than that. Regardless, I still think Thor is capable of avoiding these attacks or simply absorbing them with his hammer.
Crazy huh? This is the GZ power and types of attacks Thor has to deal with.
I guess, however Thor has dealt with worse, while Zilla can't say the same.
Since I have not gotten to it yet, I might as well adress the earlier comment of Thor zipping around GZ. this is false.
Not false, many characters can fly circles around Zilla. The guy is huge, it's not a bad thing he's not fast. With large size, comes a lost in speed.
Thor is below Wolverine, all these statements, amd feats show as much. No low balling, just truth.
Wow, should have expected you to go this route. To be honest, I don't really care, so I'm not even going to address this attempt to low-ball Thor. Though, it doesn't matter, because Thor won't be fighting on the ground anyways, he'll be in the air. Those scans were quite pointless, because Thor will be taking to the skies for this battle. How else is he going to defeat Zilla then? Strike his toes? In the air, he's fast enough to out-pace Zilla.
Fully able to tag super sonic jets in front of his face, where it would be the hardest to follow.
The guy is incredibly large, and isn't exactly going to be hard for Thor to miss, especially if Thor is using his lightning bolts. All Zilla seemed to do in this scan is fire his nuclear breath in there direction and due to the size of the beam, they were caught.
Able to react to the Supersonic missiles of Mecha Godzilla after they are fired.
He tried to duck to avoid them and we can see that some strike his back. He didn't even really dodge that as it seems 2-3 actually struck him.
In the movies Rodan and Battara are said to be Mach 5. We know this is true in itself as Rodan flight is so fast, he destroys a city by his flight path over it. Battara like wise keeps up with Rodan in their fight. Godzilla not only reacts to Rodan and Battara, but he catches Rodan in his attack flight, as well knocks Battara away with his other hand at the same time. Reaction at its best.
This one is quite impressive.
I'm going to stop you there on your speed feats because this one in my opinion is quite simply the most impressive one, so there isn't a point in addressing the rest. I'm going to show you why Thor is going to give him trouble in the speed department. Not that it matters. Zilla is large, so Thor is going to quite literally be bull-rushing him plenty of times, so Zilla is going to have to be dealing with speed far worse than Rodan's.
He would quite literally just need to hit him with plenty of these type of attacks.
Reaction wise, Thor isn't a slouch, despite what you may think.
Here Thor reacts to a bullet from a sniper that he wasn't even aware was there. He instantly blocks it with Mjolnir, and it seems to be casual.
He's blocked three energy blasts at the same time with a single swing from his hammer.
He has blocked a blast from the Surfer at a seemingly close distance.
He has even thrown Mjolnir to intercept a blast that has already been released by the Enchantress to hit Captain America.
And if we want to talk about missiles. He's snatched them out of the sky easily.
There is no excuse for Thor to dodge attacks from GZ at all. You say hitting Thor is a issue? It really is not. GZ can not only tag him with his Supersonic reactions, but he already fought human size super heroes in Marvel daily, and has AOE attacks to boot.
I still don't believe he's tagging Thor as much as you think he is. Most of the times he tags things is when they are literally flying right into his face, which even he can tag Thor won't help. Thor's striking power is above his so it would only push him back. I showed above Thor isn't a slouch in the speed department, and has been consistently been dodging blasts of energy, Zilla's is only easier because it's larger. The fact that he can also absorb it is a bonus.
By the way if we take in his fight against the Marvel heroes, he only tagged them when they were in his line of vision or flying straight at him. They won't even moving that fast either, which isn't the same that will happen here. Don't forget my showings above of him putting the beat down on a fast character like Gladiator, which shows his combat speed isn't slow.
Funny thing is, Thor still has his lightning which can be used to not only take down Zilla but temporarily stun him so he can take him out. I don't think you're going to be arguing any time soon that he's faster than lighting. I see this fight being similar to Thor VS Goliath, except Zilla is much bigger.
All pretty good, but nothing Space GZ cannot surpass in damage output.
This isn't Space Godzilla though.
"Return it tenfold" Thor says. That will boost GZ. thanks for the snack GZ says. Its why he never used it on Hulk, or anyone other than beings like Wrecker who has to drain energy for energy. Hulk, like Godzilla, makes his own energy.
Okay, he's adding his own energy to it, so the energy is essentially changed. Basically all your scans show is him absorbing nuclear energy, which isn't the type of energy Thor has. Show me Zilla absorbing lighting, or magical energy, because that's type Thor most likely will infuse in his attack he sends back. Who even says Zilla will be fast enough to absorb back an attack he's originally fired at Thor absorbs it and fires it back? I don't think he's capable of such a task. Just absorb all that nuclear energy out his body, or at least enough to make him far weaker and easier to take out.
So by your own argument, you are helping GZ when Thor tries this.
Not at all.
Final Thoughts:
Thor is capable of matching Zilla in physical strength
Thor strikes harder than Zilla
Thor is around the same in durability if not superior
Thor is faster in terms of travel speed, combat speed and even reaction speed
Thor is more versatile
Thor can absorb the nuclear energy from Zilla
Thor is smaller and therefore would be a harder target for Zilla
I think Thor edges Zilla out in pretty much every stat except maybe durability and healing factor. With everything presented above, I think he has the better chance at victory.
This was a good debate man, thanks for encouraging me to continuing when I decided not to. I learned more on Godzilla, who I believe is more powerful than I originally thought. Hopefully we can debate again in the future. You can open for votes. @sirfizzwhizz
@heirtothekingdom: Good job mate. Glad you got the final post up. We will go to votes from here. This was indeed fun. Any chance I get to use GZ is fun for me lol.
@sirfizzwhizz did a great job introducing and debating Godzilla! I honestly did not know anything at all about Godzilla and his power levels. Good job to the both of you great read. @heirtothekingdom did a excellent job with Thor and I hope you go into future debates with him you really know your facts. When I first came across this thread I was certain Thor would win but @sirfizzwhizz arguments swayed me.
Okay, finished reading. I'm kind of split on who to choose. From what I saw in terms of durability, you're both pretty much even with a an edge to Godzilla thanks to his regeneration. However, I think Heir did a better job of convincing me that his damage output could overcome GZ in the long run with his assortment of higher tiered fights. Whereas while GZ is practically known for giant fights against gigantic monsters with monstrous power, they couldn't even hope to compare to some of Thor's opponents imo(or at least from what was shown), which makes Thor's victory much more convincing. In addition to this, there were a lot of things he questioned/pointed out that I kinda have to agree with(such as the Hercules feat for GZ). Anyway, good debate guys, but I'll vote for @heirtothekingdom
Never really participated in one of these before, but presumably anyone can vote so long as they explain their answer, and not merely someone who asked to be tagged for voting?
@sirfizzwhizz made an excellent case for why Godzilla was a formidable foe, providing strong support for Godzilla's energy blast output and making it clear that Thor would need to work extremely hard to put Godzilla down for the count, given Godzilla's excellent durability and more-amazing-than-I'd-realized regeneration.
However, @heirtothekingdom was able to convince me that a Thor who wasn't holding back could not only hang in the same striking/blasting league as Godzilla, but could reach truly overwhelming tiers of striking and lightning output that, for all his regeneration, was capable of killing/KOing Godzilla (albeit only temporarily).
Alright, gotta vote for heirtothekingdom here (on mobile; can't tag, sorry) even despite his disturbing misuse of the word "literally". Frankly, he convinced me that Thor has the stats advantage here, and that was pretty much the whole of both arguments. Fizzwhizz seemed to lowball quite a bit and I thought Heir's argument was more fair and reasonable.
Fun read overall. Heir, for the love of god, man, stop using "literally". Please, please, man. :P
his last post made it pretty clear that thor has already dealt with the same or even worse than what BigG is capable of doing to him, whereas the only real advantage Godzilla has is his regen-ability but @sirfizzzwhizzz coudlnt convince methat it would be enough against Thors striking power and energy projection.
I honestly think that the arguments for Godzilla were more well presented. I figured Thor would have more raw durability than this Godzilla but this thread proved that pretty wrong. I also wasn't convinced that Thor would actually be able to put down Godzilla.
This debate was really well researched on both sides and it was very entertaining as it was also enlightening. Both debaters brought forth solid rebuttals and counters as well as arguments that were all-around, well rounded.
@sirfizzwhizz - Is an amazing debater and he really knows his characters, Godzilla being one of them he did an incredible job in representing Godzilla. Your arguments when it came to Godzilla`s durability, regeneration and strength were excellently documented, and you made a very convincing case for why Godzilla would defeat Thor even if it might seem like Thor would have more of the advantage due to size and mobility.
@heirtothekingdom - You did a superb job in representing Thor, you always bring an in-depth, introspective and informative perspective to the Thor character. Your arguments were sharp and sound, I really liked how you addressed Thor`s speed, strength and durability. And I really enjoyed analyzing your arguments as well as your debating style similar to SirFizzWhizz, you also really know your characters and always showcase an expansive expertise when expressing them.
In the end, I was torn as I couldn`t choose the winner, this match was very even to me. But after looking at the debate and rethinking everything, I`m going to have edge it to @sirfizzwhizz, it was very close but his counters were slightly more convincing as well as arguments when it came to proving why Godzilla would win. I also believe that in a straight out fight between the two that Godzilla would end up outlasting Thor due to his superior regeneration and the fact that his durability as well as defense level would be more than enough to survive Thor`s attacks. Thor has the advantage in mobility, raw power and in some degree speed but the only way he could definitively defeat Godzilla is if he were to BFR him.
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