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#1 Edited by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules - Characters have standard gear. Win by Death, K.O, or Incap and are in character. No gear other than what they commonly have. The battle takes place in Metropolis. Characters start on opposite sides of the city knowing where their opponent is. They have basic knowledge of the other's skill set. If possible, the debaters can hopefully wrap up their arguments within a week(if possible, not certain).

Competitors: @emperorthanos Gladiator & @masterkungfu Beta Ray Bill

@emperorthanos will have the option to start.

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#2 Posted by ssj_god (16749 posts) - - Show Bio

wooh.. this was quick

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#3 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: it's best that he starts because i will only be able to post next week.

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#5 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

dayum......that was quick

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#6 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterkungfu: Could you go first. I will only be able to get a full post up next week.

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#7 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: it'll take a while.........but I'll have it asap whenever I can......before you of course

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#8 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos@stl9997

Introducing Beta Ray Bill............Champion of the Korbinites

Feel the might of Stormbreaker!
Feel the might of Stormbreaker!

Background Information

History

Probably the most recognizable individual who has proven himself worthy of Mjolnir besides Thor. Beta Ray Bill is the chosen savior of his people, the Korbinites, after their homeworld was destroyed by the Fire Demon Surtur. Bill is burdened with the responsibility of protecting the survivors of his race, a commitment he is absolutely dedicated to. Upon encountering Thor and discovering of his worthiness, Odin granted him Stormbreaker, the golden equivalent of Mjolnir to assist him in his journey whenever he comes across any dangers the cosmos has to offer.

Biography

No Caption Provided

Powers and Abilities

General Capabilities

As the Champion of the Korbinites, Bill has military experience, gladiatoral training, armed melee and unarmed melee combat skills. He is one of the most powerful warriors in the Marvel Universe due to his fighting prowess and overall ruthlessness to not hold back on whoever threatens him or his people.

Korbinite Physiology

Bill possesses all common traits of his race such as rapid regeneration and thriving under warm climates. After being selected as the protector of his race, he underwent cybernetic enhancement, further boosting his strength, speed and durability as well as extending his lifespan. Bill is comparable to powerhouses such as Thor, Hercules and Gladiator in terms of physical attributes.

Stormbreaker

The golden equivalent of Thor's hammer possesses all the abilities of Mjolnir including mystic link, flight, portal creation, weather manipulation, energy manipulation, force fields, time travel etc minus the really devastating attacks such as the God-Blast or the Anti-Force.

So awesome!
So awesome!

Why Bill Wins

While it would be a good fight to watch, ultimately Beta Ray Bill would emerge victoriously..........

  • BRB is very much comparable to Gladiator physically
  • BRB possesses sufficient speed to deal with Gladiator
  • BRB has more options under his belt thanks to Stormbreaker
  • BRB has a better track record at dealing with stronger foes
  • BRB is more ruthless and has no issues when it comes to confidence

These details will be further explored in my next post but for now this should be sufficient...........

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#9 Posted by shihan (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta ra bill

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#10 Edited by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Gladiator

Background

The fiercely proud Gladiator also known as Kallark is the leader, or praetor, of the Imperial Guard, a multi-ethnic group of super-powered alien beings who act as enforcers of the laws of the Shi'ar Empire. He has been one of the Marvel Universes most powerful cosmic heavy hitters for quite some time and has a close comparison to DC's Superman in powerset . He has served in the team of Annihilators and had glorious battles throughout the cosmos.

Power and Abilities

Basic abilities

  • Superhuman Strength
  • Superhuman Speed/Reflexes
  • Superhuman Durability/Invulnerability
  • Superhuman Stamina
  • Flight
  • Heat Vision
  • Super Breath
  • Super Senses
  • Hyper-Vision (Telescopic)/Microscopic Vision
  • Super Hearing
  • Skilled soldier and leader
No Caption Provided

Strength

His Superhuman strength that ranks in the class 100 (not to be taken literally, due to the vast upgrade Marvel characters have gotten over the years), which puts him on par with Hulk and Thor; in fact, at full confidence he has shown to over power Thor. He has also been shown to rip apart entire lack holes and shatter planets.

Speed

His travel speed is much faster than light speed so combat and reaction speed. He has also shown his great speed in instances such as his battles with Thor and Hyperion . He has also been shown to fly 100 times the speed of light. With speed feats such as these, I think it's safe to say that Beta Ray Bill is not going to blitz him. Gladiator is just as fast if not faster.

Durability

Gladiators is extremely durable. He has been seen going through suns effortlessly with no damage at all. He also has survived attacks from the like of Tyrant, Jean Grey and Vulcan. He has survived attacks that are comparable to supernova and fought against some of the strongest people in the galaxy.

Heat Vision

Gladiator also has an extremely powerful heat vision. His heat vision has been stated to be hotter than a sun itself. And over the years we have seen him match the heat vision of character such has Tyrant and a phoenix force Induced Cyclops.

Initial counters

Why Bill Wins

While it would be a good fight to watch, ultimately Beta Ray Bill would emerge victoriously..........

BRB is very much comparable to Gladiator physically

Gladiator is extremely strong, BRB will have difficulty putting him down considering the foes Gladiator has fought in the past. Gladiator was strong enough to effortly lift a ship that was the size of an entire city

No Caption Provided

BRB possesses sufficient speed to deal with Gladiator

Again Gladiator is multiple times faster than light, BRB is fast but Gladiator has the advantage here. He was able to cross light years in seconds.

No Caption Provided

BRB has more options under his belt thanks to Stormbreaker

Gladiator has dealt with Thor several times who has Mjolnir. Gladiator can do the same has he did against Thor

No Caption Provided

BRB has a better track record at dealing with stronger foes

Examples? When Thanos fought the Annihilators in Infinity Revelation he specfically stated that Gladiator was the most dangerous amongst them. He was willing to take on everyone else inclding BRB and Surfer but BFRd Gladiator because he was too dangerous.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

BRB is more ruthless and has no issues when it comes to confidence

Of course, the confidence issue, I knew someone would bring that up. Gladiator has plenty of confidence. He has been able to repel attacks just because he believes he is above them.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Why Gladiator wins

  1. He has shown superior strength to BRB and will be able to overpower him
  2. He has shown superior speed to BRB and can blitz him
  3. BRB may have some sort of Advantage with StormBreak but Gladiator has shown in his fights with Thor that he can deal with that.
  4. Gladiator has heat vision which is powerful enough to take out BRB
  5. It has even been stated by Thanos himself that Gladiator is more dangerous.
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#11 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos@stl9997

Rebuttals and Counters

Your quotes are in small intended bold lines.......

Strength

Like Kallark, Bill is also a solid Class 100 tier on the Marvel Strength Scale. Even before he received Stormbreaker he could match toe-to-toe with Thor Odinson thanks to his enhanced Korbinite cybernetics. After he is granted the same godly powers as his Asgardian "brother" Bill's strength became immeasurable.

He has shown superior strength to BRB and will be able to overpower him

Superior strength? maybe........but overpower? I don't think so.........

Pure Muscle

Gladiator is extremely strong, BRB will have difficulty putting him down considering the foes Gladiator has fought in the past. Gladiator was strong enough to effortly lift a ship that was the size of an entire city

Lifting a city-size ship is impressive but Bill can go one better........

Here Beta Ray Bill assists Thor in lifting the continent of Asgard
Here Beta Ray Bill assists Thor in lifting the continent of Asgard

So unless Kallark produce a force greater than the weight of Asgard, he won't be keeping Bill down........

Striking Capacity

Now I know Kallark is capable of busting planets but he doesn't do them as easily as Bill........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Here Beta Ray Bill destroys a planet in his battle with Stardust

Kallark as I recall required several hits to bust a planet.....impressive but Bill does it with less

.........more to come

Speed

He has shown superior speed to BRB and can blitz him

Bill is able to fly and fight around the speed of light. Kallark may have an advantage but it's not a big one I'm afraid

Travel Velocity

Again Gladiator is multiple times faster than light, BRB is fast but Gladiator has the advantage here. He was able to cross light years in seconds.

Bill is no slouch when it comes to travel speed either..........

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Here Beta Ray Bill could cross a galaxy in seconds to encounter Stardust
Here Beta Ray Bill escapes the pull of a Black Hole
Here Beta Ray Bill escapes the pull of a Black Hole

Reflexes and Reaction

I think it's safe to say that Beta Ray Bill is not going to blitz him.

It's out of character for Bill to blitz but he could still counter one from Kallark or throw Stormbreaker at him

Here Beta Ray Bill naturally has millisecond reaction without even trying
Here Beta Ray Bill naturally has millisecond reaction without even trying

Of course millisecond doesn't spell FTL but this is just Bill's perspective on a normal basis

If Kallark does try to blitz Bill, he will see it coming from a long distance away

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Here Beta Ray Bill is able to spot a streak of light that happens to be Silver Surfer

And when Kallark comes close, Bill will strike him down with Stormbreaker........hard

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Here Beta Ray Bill is able to strike down a pursuing Silver Surfer while Skuttlebutt is travelling through hyperspace

Kallark may want to reconsider blitzing Bill because he's going to suffer a great hurting

...........more to come

Defenses and Versatility

Bill is a tough customer like Kallark too. You'd be surprised how similar in attributes they quite are......

Energy Manipulation

Gladiator also has an extremely powerful heat vision. His heat vision has been stated to be hotter than a sun itself. And over the years we have seen him match the heat vision of character such has Tyrant and a phoenix force Induced Cyclops. Gladiator has heat vision which is powerful enough to take out BRB

If Kallark decides to use heat vision against the Korbinite Champion, Bill could just absorb and redirect the attack back

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Here Beta Ray Bill shields himself from Stardust's giant blast, absorbs the attack and redirects it back

So in essence........Bill uses Kallark's heat vision against him but in addition with his own energy attacks.....

Durability

He has been seen going through suns effortlessly with no damage at all

........and so has Bill........

So extreme heat vision isn't going to be a problem
So extreme heat vision isn't going to be a problem

Even if Kallark manages to hit Bill with his Heat Vision........it's not going to do much

He also has survived attacks from the like of Tyrant, Jean Grey and Vulcan

That's great and all........but surviving attacks from them looks like small fry compared to Galan

Here Beta Ray Bill survives an attack from Galactus the Devourer of Worlds
Here Beta Ray Bill survives an attack from Galactus the Devourer of Worlds

Kallark can forget taking Bill out in seconds or minutes.........this fight is going to be a long one

............more to come

Fighting Experience

Gladiator has dealt with Thor several times who has Mjolnir. Gladiator can do the same has he did against Thor

The problem is Bill doesn't fight the way Thor fights. Thor fought Kallark in the same hammer he fights Hulk, Hyperion and other powerhouse equivalents. Thor didn't fight Kallark in the same manner as he would Surtur, Glory or Galactus

Bill on the other hand lives a dangerous life and must use all his powers and abilities to defeat his foes considering the threats he comes across......

Examples? When Thanos fought the Annihilators in Infinity Revelation he specfically stated that Gladiator was the most dangerous amongst them. He was willing to take on everyone else inclding BRB and Surfer but BFRd Gladiator because he was too dangerous. It has even been stated by Thanos himself that Gladiator is more dangerous.

As impressive as it may be for Thanos to declare Kallark being a greater threat than the other Annihilators, I would hardly call that a record where they didn't engage in combat at all........so we have no idea if Kallark would beat Thanos or put up a better fight than Bill and besides different powersets work against different characters

Speaking of Bill........he was the only remaining Annihilator to put up the best fight against Thanos.........barring his separation from Stormbreaker.....

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Here Beta Ray Bill knocks Thanos off his chair while Kallark helplessly gets teleported somewhere else

And in terms of better track record for Bill.........here it is

Here Beta Ray Bill cracks the armor of Galactus
Here Beta Ray Bill cracks the armor of Galactus

Now.........Galactus is someone who well and truly above Kallark's paygrade. Both Thor and Bill have had their fair share of meddling with Galan. Superman-types such as Hyperion or Kallark don't even register of Galan's radar.

............more to come

It's now your turn @emperorthanos

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#14 Edited by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttals

Strength

So unless Kallark produce a force greater than the weight of Asgard, he won't be keeping Bill down........

The Ship Gladiator carried was bigger than a full city and he carried with ease. Whilst BRB is clearly struggling with the Asgard and he has help from Thor. But I digress, Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill seem pretty even in this regard.

Now I know Kallark is capable of busting planets but he doesn't do them as easily as Bill

Bill was clearly using a large amount of power when busting the planet. Gladiator on the other hand did it without too much trouble

No Caption Provided

However Gladiator has an even greater striking feat. While in pursuit of the Skrulls(where he was able to go into hyperspace and go from the Sh'ar Galaxy to the Milky way in seconds) Gladiator punched with enough for to create a star. Thats right a star.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He was able to hit with enough force to create a star near Pluto and Reed stated that nova would be strong enough to wipe out half the solar system. Gladiator is superior than BRB in striking feats.

Speed

Gladiator does have the advantage in travel speed here

Bill is able to fly and fight around the speed of light. Kallark may have an advantage but it's not a big one I'm afraid

Well Gladiator is even faster than the speed of light. According the Reed Richards, Gladiator was moving at a 100 times faster that than the speed of light.

No Caption Provided

Of course millisecond doesn't spell FTL but this is just Bill's perspective on a normal basis

A millisecond is fast but a nanosecond is even faster. Gladiator was able to have a fight with Hyperion in nanoseconds.

No Caption Provided

If Kallark does try to blitz Bill, he will see it coming from a long distance away

As for that Gladiator was able to count 10 billion micro sentinels in a second.

No Caption Provided

Gladiator has the advantage in both Travel and Combat speed. And he does speed blitz in character, BRB won't be able to react to him to strike him down.

Energy Manipulation

If Kallark decides to use heat vision against the Korbinite Champion, Bill could just absorb and redirect the attack back

Well has BRB every absorbed an attack hotter than the sun itself

No Caption Provided

He was even able to match a phoenix empowered Cyclops and Tyrant(although Briefly.)

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Durability

That's great and all........but surviving attacks from them looks like small fry compared to Galan

Tyrant is most definitely comparable to Galactus. He was a big enough threat for even Galactus to be worried and have to fight him.

and Gladiator was able to withstand a full eyeblast from, and eyeblast that was able to knockout silver surfer.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Beta Ray Bill will have hard time putting him down for good.

Overall points

  1. Gladiator has better striking feats than BRB, they may be equal in strength bu Gladiator has more powerful strikes. Like his star creating one.
  2. Gladiator is lot faster than BRB as well. His travel speed in far greater as he is able to move at 100 times FTL. And his combat speed is superiors as well as he was able to fight in nanoseconds.
  3. His heat vision is also extremely powerful as they were able to briefly match Tyrant, someone who was powerful enough the threaten Galactus

@masterkungfu your turn

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#15 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9201 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for voting.

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#16 Edited by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos@stl9997

More Rebuttals and Counters

Strength

Pure Muscle

The Ship Gladiator carried was bigger than a full city and he carried with ease. Whilst BRB is clearly struggling with the Asgard and he has help from Thor.

Bill didn't actually struggle and he was giving Thor help not the other way around but even then the continent of Asgard still exceeds that of a full city.........see below

The landmass itself is definitely bigger than just a city and that's not taking into account all the heavy objects upon there
The landmass itself is definitely bigger than just a city and that's not taking into account all the heavy objects upon there

Striking Capacity

Bill was clearly using a large amount of power when busting the planet. Gladiator on the other hand did it without too much trouble

It shows Kallark needs a few hits to crumble the planet whereas Bill needed one and he didn't even hit the planet...he hit Stardust and the clash was enough to destroy it

However Gladiator has an even greater striking feat. While in pursuit of the Skrulls(where he was able to go into hyperspace and go from the Sh'ar Galaxy to the Milky way in seconds) Gladiator punched with enough for to create a star. Thats right a star.

Interesting..........but I did mention before Bill was able to crack the armor of Galactus

Here Beta Ray Bill cracks the armor of Galactus
Here Beta Ray Bill cracks the armor of Galactus

And for a bigger perspective.........a hungry Galactus could destroy 3 star systems while being at the epicentre of its attack.......and his armor was fine

So you see Bill cracked armor that withstood the destruction of 3 star systems
So you see Bill cracked armor that withstood the destruction of 3 star systems

Now creating a star is impressive but Kallark's striking capacity doesn't outstrip Bill by much if at all

Speed

Travel Velocity

Well Gladiator is even faster than the speed of light. According the Reed Richards, Gladiator was moving at a 100 times faster that than the speed of light.

If you see from my previous post..........Bill crossed a galaxy in mere seconds. Even the smallest galaxies are at least 200 light years across.......that's beyond 100 times the speed of light

Reflexes and Reaction

A millisecond is fast but a nanosecond is even faster. Gladiator was able to have a fight with Hyperion in nanoseconds. As for that Gladiator was able to count 10 billion micro sentinels in a second.

Bill has nanosecond reactions too being not only able to perceive the streak of light that was Silver Surfer from a distance but able to react to him in hyperspace.

Gladiator has the advantage in both Travel and Combat speed. And he does speed blitz in character, BRB won't be able to react to him to strike him down.

Unfortunately for Kallark, that isn't going to be the case.........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Beta Ray Bill strikes a moving Silver Surfer

While travelling in hyperspace Norrin Radd tries to bullrush Bill and is unsuccessfully because Bill successfully reacted to him, striking with tremendous force.........Kallark could try to blitz Bill but he would only get struck down

Defenses and Versatility

Energy Manipulation

Well has BRB every absorbed an attack hotter than the sun itself

Heat doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Bill can absorb the attack.......it's still an energy blast and can be redirected and even then if Bill gets hit the effects aren't going to have a huge impact on a being who's race thrives around heat..........plus he survived an attack from Galactus

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
A series of energy absorbing from Beta Ray Bill

Absorbing Kallark's heat vision isn't that big of a deal for Bill when he has absorbed the energy attacks from Stardust and Silver Surfer, two of the best energy manipulators from within the Heralds of Galactus

Durability

The only option Kallark is really left with is physical combat.........something Bill relishes too however keeping the Korbinite down won't be easy

Here Beta Ray Bill survives planetary destruction
Here Beta Ray Bill survives planetary destruction

Though Kallark can bust planets, Bill can withstand them..........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Here Beta Ray Bill survives Thor's planet busting strike

The left scan shows what the planet looks like and the right scan shows Thor hitting Bill (yes Bill not the planet) and Bill survives while the planet beneath him is destroyed........

Fighting Experience

Tyrant is most definitely comparable to Galactus. He was a big enough threat for even Galactus to be worried and have to fight him.

Only when Tyrant was at full power was he comparable to Galactus......Galactus defeated and depowered him afterwards

.........more to come

it's your turn now @emperorthanos

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#17 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterkungfu: sorry I have been traveling. I will get to this soon

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#19 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: @masterkungfu:

Sorry it's taking so long I'm in vacation right now so wifi isn't the best. Plus comic vine deleted my fucking post so I have to start all over

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#20 Posted by Overmonitor (1515 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: You probably want to edit your post for language :) good CaV so far!!! T4v

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#21 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@overmonitor: probably should just annoyed that I lost every thing.

And thanks, it's my first debating with gladiator

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#22 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttals

@masterkungfu said:

Bold=me

Strength

Pure Muscle

Bill didn't actually struggle and he was giving Thor help not the other way around but even then the continent of Asgard still exceeds that of a full city.........see below

Striking Capacity

It shows Kallark needs a few hits to crumble the planet whereas Bill needed one and he didn't even hit the planet...he hit Stardust and the clash was enough to destroy it

Interesting..........but I did mention before Bill was able to crack the armor of Galactus

And for a bigger perspective.........a hungry Galactus could destroy 3 star systems while being at the epicentre of its attack.......and his armor was fine

Cracking his armor is impressive but Galactus's armor wasn't exactly being attacked by a star system attack, the blasts are clearly going outwards away from the armor. None the less Galactus's armour is still very strong

Now creating a star is impressive but Kallark's striking capacity doesn't outstrip Bill by much if at all

I can agree that the difference between Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill's strength and striking ability is very small. so this argument is not worth continuing.

But I will show you why BRB can't take Gladiator down.

Gladiator was able to survive a direct hit from tyrants Eybeams

No Caption Provided

Tyrant's eye beam was able to take out surfer in one blow

No Caption Provided

the same surfer who survived being hit by galactus himself

No Caption Provided

Who also surfs through supernovas for fun

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

So it would take an attack stronger than a supernova to have any affect on Gladiator.

Speed

Travel Velocity

If you see from my previous post..........Bill crossed a galaxy in mere seconds. Even the smallest galaxies are at least 200 light years across.......that's beyond 100 times the speed of light

the difference in travel speed is pretty small so no point in arguing.

Reflexes and Reaction

Bill has nanosecond reactions too being not only able to perceive the streak of light that was Silver Surfer from a distance but able to react to him in hyperspace

Gladiator was able to have a full fledge fight at that speeds while Bill was just able to react in hyperspace.

Gladiator was able to beat hyperion at these speed as well.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

While travelling in hyperspace Norrin Radd tries to bullrush Bill and is unsuccessfully because Bill successfully reacted to him, striking with tremendous force.........Kallark could try to blitz Bill but he would only get struck down

BRB doesn't have the reaction feats to fight in nanoseconds like the way Gladiator did with Hyperion.

Defenses and Versatility

Energy Manipulation

Heat doesn't have anything to do with whether or not Bill can absorb the attack.......it's still an energy blast and can be redirected and even then if Bill gets hit the effects aren't going to have a huge impact on a being who's race thrives around heat..........plus he survived an attack from Galactus

Absorbing Kallark's heat vision isn't that big of a deal for Bill when he has absorbed the energy attacks from Stardust and Silver Surfer, two of the best energy manipulators from within the Heralds of Galactus

Gladiator's heat vision was able to match Tyrant's heat vision which even Surfer's energy blasts couldn't do.

Show me BRB absorbing an attack that are powerful enough destroy stars and then he maybe able absorb Gladiators saying he can absorb any attack is a no limit fallacy.

Durability

The only option Kallark is really left with is physical combat.........something Bill relishes too however keeping the Korbinite down won't be easy

Though Kallark can bust planets, Bill can withstand them..........

The left scan shows what the planet looks like and the right scan shows Thor hitting Bill (yes Bill not the planet) and Bill survives while the planet beneath him is destroyed........

Withstanding planets is great but can he with stand the attack that could destroy have a solar system?

No Caption Provided

Reed Richards states that attack would have destroyed half the star system if it wasn't being contained meaning Gladiator was able to contain a half star system attack. BRB can not survive an attack like that.

And for Versatility . Gladiator also has super breath that is able to put out Human Torches fire which is as hot as a super nova.

No Caption Provided

Fighting Experience

Only when Tyrant was at full power was he comparable to Galactus......Galactus defeated and depowered him afterwards

Well I guess he has fought one tough opponent that gladiator has. How does that prove his superiority of gladiator?

@masterkungfu I guess thats it. Sorry it took so long to do

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#23 Posted by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please.

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#24 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos

Even More Rebuttals and Counters

Strength

I can agree that the difference between Gladiator and Beta Ray Bill's strength and striking ability is very small. so this argument is not worth continuing.

Agreed

Speed

Travel Velocity

the difference in travel speed is pretty small so no point in arguing.

Agreed

Reflexes and Reaction

Gladiator was able to have a full fledge fight at that speeds while Bill was just able to react in hyperspace.

To react in hyperspace is no laughing matter........Skuttlebutt (his ship) is able to move several times the speed of light through hyperspace and Bill not only just kept up with it while moving and fighting but he was doing all sorts of action including shielding, energy projection, energy absorption among others

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Skuttlebutt moving several times the speed of light

BRB doesn't have the reaction feats to fight in nanoseconds like the way Gladiator did with Hyperion.

Being able to shield, blast, absorb and strike in hyperspace should suffice in the nanosecond range. Besides I'm honestly not seeing Kallark flying circles around Bill not to mention Bill doesn't chase. He stays in one place and waits for the prey to come to him.......

Defenses and Versatility

Durability

Gladiator was able to survive a direct hit from tyrants Eybeams. Tyrant's eye beam was able to take out surfer in one blow

From the looks of it, while SS was one-shotted he doesn't look damaged, only knocked out. SS is durable but can still be knocked out. As impressive as Kallark surviving a direct hit was, it's not really quantifiable.

the same surfer who survived being hit by galactus himself. Who also surfs through supernovas for fun.

Again we have no idea how hard Galan was hitting SS. Galan has also hit Bill but the side effect of it was a destroyed planet. Galan hitting SS is not really quantifiable.

So it would take an attack stronger than a supernova to have any affect on Gladiator.

I don't think that is necessary. I don't wish to lowball but Kallark has been affected by less.

Now for some more of Bill's durability showings..........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Bill withstood the pull of 2 black holes and only has a torn cape.

Anyway as far as durability is concerned, both Kallark and Bill are durable to energy attacks but the key here will more likely be durability against physical attacks. Is there any for Kallark?

Energy Manipulation

Gladiator's heat vision was able to match Tyrant's heat vision which even Surfer's energy blasts couldn't do.

SS didn't try to match Tyrant though. They took turns shooting at each other.

Show me BRB absorbing an attack that are powerful enough destroy stars and then he maybe able absorb Gladiators saying he can absorb any attack is a no limit fallacy.

Kallark can destroy stars? Temperature is measured in degrees and has nothing to do with energy output which is measured in joules. Nonetheless if you insist........Thor with 2 Mjolnirs (Stormbreaker's equivalent) was able to absorb the energy of Gorr's god-bomb.......which could kill all gods in the universe throughout time. Granted it was 2 Mjolnirs but if you half the feat itself, then Bill should be capable of absorbing half the god-bomb....definitely well above what Kallark's heat vision is able to dish out

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
The energy of the bomb is redirected back at Gorr. Mjolnir is Stormbreaker's equivalent BTW

Mjolnir has other energy absorbing feats such as absorbing the blasts of Glory but this CaV isn't about Thor or Mjolnir. The feats of Bill absorbing the attacks of Stardust and Silver Surfer in my previous post should suffice.

Withstanding planets is great but can he with stand the attack that could destroy have a solar system?

Kallark can't produce a solar system level destruction so there's nothing for Bill to worry about here

Reed Richards states that attack would have destroyed half the star system if it wasn't being contained meaning Gladiator was able to contain a half star system attack. BRB can not survive an attack like that.

Assuming Reed isn't overexaggerating......Thor and Bill were able to destroy a solar system sized portal gate by throwing their hammers at it....granted it was a dual feat......half the feat itself would indicate half a solar system level attack. Take it as you will.

So half a solar system level attack isn't far off
So half a solar system level attack isn't far off

And for Versatility . Gladiator also has super breath that is able to put out Human Torches fire which is as hot as a super nova.

I don't think freeze breath is going to be used here very often.

Versatility

Bill has plenty of versatility too......and while this isn't a competition of who has more powers, it does leave Bill with more options to deal with Kallark should he have none left........

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
From left to right Bill has healing, shielding, lightning, teleportation, weather manipulation among many others
  • Bill could heal himself if he needs to like he does with Thor
  • Bill could shield himself from Kallark like he does Nova or Stardust in my previous posts
  • Bill could call down lightning to strike Kallark, one bolt could knock out Fenris
  • Bill could send Kallark away like he does a huge black hole....while that may not count as winning it can buy him time to regather his strength
  • Bill could use the elements of weather to assist him

Fighting Experience

Well I guess he has fought one tough opponent that gladiator has. How does that prove his superiority of gladiator?

Bill has performed feats such as outperforming both Silver Surfer and Stardust, harming Ego the Living Planet and knocking Thanos down whereas the Mad Titan was unfazed by Silver Surfer.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6
Bill in a weakened state holds off a barrage attack where SS and Stardust fail to do so
Ego the Living Planet has been known to match Galan before BTW so this is quite impressive from Bill
Ego the Living Planet has been known to match Galan before BTW so this is quite impressive from Bill
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Bill was able to knock Thanos off his chair with a throw from Stormbreaker. A blast from SS does nothing to Thanos

While Kallark isn't to be underestimated I must say Bill has a better resume than him.....similar stats but Stormbreaker just tips the balance in Bill's favor.

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#28 Edited by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttals

Speed

To react in hyperspace is no laughing matter........Skuttlebutt (his ship) is able to move several times the speed of light through hyperspace and Bill not only just kept up with it while moving and fighting but he was doing all sorts of action including shielding, energy projection, energy absorption among others

Do you have any scans of him fighting at this speeds? all you have shown me is him striking down down Silver surfer. And even the it doesn't say whether or not surfer was moving in hyperspace or not.

While Gladiator has moved in hyperspace before and caught up with ships moving at that speed.

No Caption Provided

Being able to shield, blast, absorb and strike in hyperspace should suffice in the nanosecond range. Besides I'm honestly not seeing Kallark flying circles around Bill not to mention Bill doesn't chase. He stays in one place and waits for the prey to come to him

Again proof that he has doen those things at that speed. Gladiator was having a full fight at that speed.

Durability

From the looks of it, while SS was one-shotted he doesn't look damaged, only knocked out. SS is durable but can still be knocked out. As impressive as Kallark surviving a direct hit was, it's not really quantifiable

How can you tell if he isn't damaged or not there is black debris all around him. Also he still knocked surfer out, a guy who has fought inside a black holes and surfs supernovas.

Surfer even survived fighting in an actual black hole.

No Caption Provided

Even with Surfer was knocked out by Tyrant while Gladiator survived the blasts

I don't think that is necessary. I don't wish to lowball but Kallark has been affected by less.

Examples?

Gladiator took Nova blast head on from Human Torch with no problem

No Caption Provided

Bill withstood the pull of 2 black holes and only has a torn cape.

Those are clearly not proper black holes. Their size is considerably smaller than an actual black hole. that really isn't a quantifiable feat.

Also you have stated a couple of time that Mjolnirs and Stormbreaker are the same in strength. While I don't believe this. Here is Gladdiator taking strikes from Thor with no problem.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Energy Manipulation

Kallark can destroy stars? Temperature is measured in degrees and has nothing to do with energy output which is measured in joules. Nonetheless if you insist........

I wasn't talking about the heat of blast. Gladiators blasts where briefly able to match Tyrant's blasts. And as I pointed out earlier Tyran was able to knock out a Silver Surfer who has above supernova durability.

No Caption Provided

Thor with 2 Mjolnirs (Stormbreaker's equivalent) was able to absorb the energy of Gorr's god-bomb.......which could kill all gods in the universe throughout time. Granted it was 2 Mjolnirs but if you half the feat itself, then Bill should be capable of absorbing half the god-bomb....definitely well above what Kallark's heat vision is able to dish out

Do you have proof that Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir?

Moreover Thor took the godbomb into his own body not into his hammers, thats why Thor died from the ordeal in the end, it was to show how Thor was the greatest god ever. The Mjolnirs just allowed him to take in the bomb.

Assuming Reed isn't overexaggerating......Thor and Bill were able to destroy a solar system sized portal gate by throwing their hammers at it....granted it was a dual feat......half the feat itself would indicate half a solar system level attack. Take it as you will.

Where does it that portal from solar system sized?

Also this is again under the assumption that Strombreaker is equal Mjolnir.

Versatility

Bill could heal himself if he needs to like he does with Thor

Bill could shield himself from Kallark like he does Nova or Stardust in my previous posts

Bill could call down lightning to strike Kallark, one bolt could knock out Fenris

Bill could send Kallark away like he does a huge black hole....while that may not count as winning it can buy him time to regather his strength

Bill could use the elements of weather to assist him

Healing doesn't always work both ways.Also has Bill ever healed himself in a fight? that would be out of character.

How strong are those shield. I have already shown that Gladiator can hit with a force of a supernoav or even more.

That would be a slight annoyance to Gladiator at most.

Thats counts as BFR and I don't know if thats allowed in this tourney. But you will have to check with the op

I don't how that will help him

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Gladiator also has freeze breath and has highly enhanced senses

  1. His super senses will ensure that he will be able to track BRB at all times
  2. While he could temporarily freeze BRB giving him time to use and even more devastating attack.

Fighting experience

Against Tyrant Gladiator had the better fight.

BRB was knocked out in one strike while Gladiator survived a direct blast from Tyrant.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Bill was able to knock Thanos off his chair with a throw from Stormbreaker. A blast from SS does nothing to Thanos

Well in that exact same fight Thanos outright stated the Gladiator was more powerful than Bill. So enemies see Gladiator as the bigger threat of the two

No Caption Provided

@masterkungfu done.

Also when do we go to closing statements?

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#32 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

I really need to teach both of you fine gentlemen some tips on formatting. If you are interested please shoot me a PM.

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#35 Posted by GrandWonder (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please.

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#36 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: well, not necessarily anything wrong per say.....just some healthy tips, pointers, and guidance...........

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#38 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Fine any advice is always helpful. I am interested in knowing how I can improve.

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#39 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterkungfu: I guess we can go straight to voting if you want. Or one closer each.

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#42 Edited by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I feel like you've given me questions I've left unanswered so maybe one more

@krleavenger: it's not voting time yet

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#43 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Edited by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos

Final Post

Closing Rebuttals

Speed

Do you have any scans of him fighting at this speeds? all you have shown me is him striking down down Silver surfer. And even the it doesn't say whether or not surfer was moving in hyperspace or not. Again proof that he has doen those things at that speed.

The artwork shows Skuttlebutt, SS and Bill all moving through hyperspace. SS and Bill were attacking one another so I don't know what else you want from me cuz there's nothing left. I'm not denying Kallark isn't as fast or faster than Bill in combat. I question his striking power while fighting at those speeds. I have at least shown Bill is capable of delivering a powerful strike at such speeds enough to faze SS.

Durability

How can you tell if he isn't damaged or not there is black debris all around him. Also he still knocked surfer out, a guy who has fought inside a black holes and surfs supernovas.

For one, his silver coating is still shining and sparkling plus the debris is a result of the damaged environment. The image below lets me know when SS is damaged.

Smoke rising out of his left rib
Smoke rising out of his left rib

Even with Surfer was knocked out by Tyrant while Gladiator survived the blasts

Bill also survived Tyrant's blasts thanks to the scans you provided in your previous post.

Examples?

oh I'm gonna look bad doing this.........but

Wolverine stabs Gladiator
Wolverine stabs Gladiator

my point is that a supernova level attack isn't absolutely needed to harm Gladiator

Those are clearly not proper black holes. Their size is considerably smaller than an actual black hole. that really isn't a quantifiable feat.

they are quantum singularities.......condensed black holes but even then Bill has been in and escaped a black hole

No Caption Provided

Versatility

Moreover Thor took the godbomb into his own body not into his hammers, thats why Thor died from the ordeal in the end, it was to show how Thor was the greatest god ever. The Mjolnirs just allowed him to take in the bomb.

The hammers were siphoning the energy firstly before he absorbed into his body. The point is that the hammers are capable of taking in such energy and Kallark's heat vision shouldn't be any different.

I wasn't talking about the heat of blast. Gladiators blasts where briefly able to match Tyrant's blasts. And as I pointed out earlier Tyran was able to knock out a Silver Surfer who has above supernova durability.

Well you did ask if Stormbreaker has absorbed anything hotter than Kallark's HV but even then Bill also survived Tyrant's blasts from the scans you shown.

Where does it that portal from solar system sized?

You can see surrounding stars and planets around the portal in the artwork.

Healing doesn't always work both ways.Also has Bill ever healed himself in a fight? that would be out of character.

I don't see why healing wouldn't work both ways........not that Bill would be beaten so badly he needs to do so

How strong are those shield. I have already shown that Gladiator can hit with a force of a supernoav or even more.

They've shielded him from Nova, Stardust, Silver Surfer and Galactus. I don't know about a supernova to be exact but in order for Kallark to hit Bill physically he needs to get up close and end up getting struck.

That would be a slight annoyance to Gladiator at most.

Not really.......Fenris can take hits from Thor but Bill's lightning just one-shotted him. Nothing to take lightly from.......

Thats counts as BFR and I don't know if thats allowed in this tourney. But you will have to check with the op

OP probably doesn't exist anymore :P

I don't how that will help him

To use the environment to his advantage when he needs it......

His super senses will ensure that he will be able to track BRB at all times

Bill isn't exactly trying to run away.........

While he could temporarily freeze BRB giving him time to use and even more devastating attack.

Freezing Wonder Man is good but Bill survives the vacuum of space and is well above Wonder Man in power.........

Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir

Also you have stated a couple of time that Mjolnirs and Stormbreaker are the same in strength. While I don't believe this. Here is Gladdiator taking strikes from Thor with no problem. Do you have proof that Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir?

It has been stated by Odin before that Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir, they were even forged in the same manner i.e. same material with a proportion of the Odin Force. I don't have the exact scan but.....Odin states Bill and Thor are equals

Odin describes Bill in their hour of need to confront Surtur
Odin describes Bill in their hour of need to confront Surtur

Furthermore Thor and Bill were able to match each other while powerless with their hammers.

http://imgur.com/a/nPfhc#0

Conclusion......If Odin states Thor and Bill are equal in power and both Thor and Bill matched each other when depowered, then Stormbreaker and Mjolnir are equals.

Fighting Experience

BRB was knocked out in one strike while Gladiator survived a direct blast from Tyrant.

Bill survived also. He wasn't killed. KO =/= killed.

Well in that exact same fight Thanos outright stated the Gladiator was more powerful than Bill. So enemies see Gladiator as the bigger threat of the two

True but unless Kallark and Thanos come to blows......we can only speculate how the fight would've went down like

Summary

Bill and Kallark are comparable in most regards but there are differences so to sum things up

  • Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir.......whatever Mjolnir is capable of Stormbreaker should be to
  • If Kallark attacks from long range with his HV.......Bill can absorb and redirect the blast back to him like Mjolnir can
  • Bill has reacted to blasts from Stardust and SS. Kallark's HV should be no different
  • Bill's race thrives on heat. Kallark's HV would only empower Bill and heal his wounds for him
  • If Kallark tries to physically engage Bill, Bill can shoot Kallark with his Stormbreaker energy blasts from a distance
  • Kallark may have the greater fighting speed but Bill has the faster singular reflex speed with the striking power too
  • Kallark won't be unfazed by Bill's strikes if he can faze Silver Surfer too with one good strong, fast hit
  • Kallark's best hope is to separate Bill from Stormbreaker which would be virtually impossible as he can summon it

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#45 Posted by Jestersmiles (9823 posts) - - Show Bio

everything under spoiler block.....why?

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#46 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@jestersmiles: to prevent pages from loading too slowly especially for those who have slow internet

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#48 Posted by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio

Final rebuttal

Speed

The artwork shows Skuttlebutt, SS and Bill all moving through hyperspace. SS and Bill were attacking one another so I don't know what else you want from me cuz there's nothing left. I'm not denying Kallark isn't as fast or faster than Bill in combat. I question his striking power while fighting at those speeds. I have at least shown Bill is capable of delivering a powerful strike at such speeds enough to faze SS.

Well moving in hyper space would then suggest a little bit faster than than the speed of light.

Gladiator was fighting in nano seconds which is a good deal faster. And to show you that he still has his strength that speed, he was still able to break Hyperion's, Someone who is incredibly power in his own right

No Caption Provided

Durability

For one, his silver coating is still shining and sparkling plus the debris is a result of the damaged environment. The image below lets me know when SS is damaged.

It still showed that Surfer was beaten by the blast. Meaning, Gladiator has greater durability than surfer, a man who has fought in a Black Hole.

Bill also survived Tyrant's blasts thanks to the scans you provided in your previous post.

Which scan? Bill took his punches and got KOed, Gladiator took a blast from him and still kept fighting.

oh I'm gonna look bad doing this.........but

my point is that a supernova level attack isn't absolutely needed to harm Gladiator

That is PIS at its finest, Gladiator tanks hits from the likes of Tyrant, Thor, Thano etc but Wolverine can stab him?

they are quantum singularities.......condensed black holes but even then Bill has been in and escaped a black hole

Like said above, the fight with Tyrant proved he has durability comparable to Surfer. And even his son says he has seen Gladiator rip black holes apart

No Caption Provided

Versatility

The hammers were siphoning the energy firstly before he absorbed into his body. The point is that the hammers are capable of taking in such energy and Kallark's heat vision shouldn't be any different.

But they weren't holding the energy. Unless your suggest Bill himself will be taking the energy into him, which is basically the same has tanking the attack.

You can see surrounding stars and planets around the portal in the artwork.

Well considering how BRB and Thor compare to it in size I still don think it as big as you say. But still destroying a portatl that size is still not as impressive as an attack that can destroy half of an an actual solar system.

Plus I you haven't shown me why BRB would survive a strike like that.

It has been stated by Odin before that Stormbreaker is equal to Mjolnir, they were even forged in the same manner i.e. same material with a proportion of the Odin Force. I don't have the exact scan but.....Odin states Bill and Thor are equals

Very well can't really argue with that. If Odin said then I guess its true.

Conclusion

Basically the Gladiator and BRB are fairly similar in terms of powers. However I feel it comes down to Gladiator has superior speed with his nanosecond reaction time. BRB hasn't shown any feats that can really compare to that in my view. and that what will give him the victory here. He will be able to close in on BRB pretty quick turning this into a physical close combat battle. Rendering Stormbreakers, long range abilities useless. And I feel he has the superior striking feats, especially the feat that caused a supernova with enough power to destroy half the system. To give him the advantage in the close combat situation.

So basically his superior speed and striking feats are what will give Gladiator the win in the end.

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#49 Edited by EmperorThanos- (15585 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by Kingant27 (16627 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.