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#1 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
Indestructible Hulk (Ghostly)
Indestructible Hulk (Ghostly)
Raiden (Monster)
Raiden (Monster)

VS!

Rules!

  • In-Character.
  • Savage Hulk, Indestructible Hulk exclusively (Marvel Now's Hulk 2012-2013)
  • Metal Gear Rising Raiden.
  • Standard Gear.
  • They start 50 feet from each other.
  • Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation.

Da Field!

No Caption Provided

@monsterstomp Looks good for you?

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#2 Edited by homicidalmaniac (10894 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15182 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: this is gonna be such a good match i will be watching this the whole way make sure to tag me when its time for voting ok:)

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#4 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15182 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by homicidalmaniac (10894 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Small question,why are you just using Indestructible Hulk only.

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#7 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Looks good man. May take a while before I respond, since I'm in two other debates right now, but I've pretty much have an opener. This debate can go quick for you, winning in your favour. I'll get my opener out soon.

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#8 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Looks good man. May take a while before I respond, since I'm in two other debates right now, but I've pretty much have an opener. This debate can go quick for you, winning in your favour. I'll get my opener out soon.

Ok man...

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#9 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Small question,why are you just using Indestructible Hulk only.

Because i think its enough to make a solid debate without prolonging it. Also, Savage Hulk has too many instances and most of them are classic and not retcon'd, you know... The kind of feats you use against Superman instead of a meta-human... So i opted to keep it simple :P.

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#10 Posted by Cooldes (4908 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: i also want to ask why you're only using indestructable hulk...

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#11 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by homicidalmaniac (10894 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by homicidalmaniac (10894 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage

Lets start off with Raiden's gear:

Gear

Cyborg Body: In-game description

A unique cyborg frame, upgraded to aid Raiden in his fight against Sam and Desperado. Equipped with Blade Mode and able to absorb fuel-cell electrolytes from enemies via any high-frequency blade, it unfortunately lacks any kind of self-repair unit, meaning Raiden must manually extract repair material from his foes in order to recover from damage.

High-Frequency Blade: In-game description

Its metallic structure strengthened by an alternating current, this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts. Its effectiveness is further boosted in Blade Mode, which consumes energy but enables high-speed attacks. Customized by Doktor to absorb fuel-cell electrolytes from its victims.

I guess I'll start by proving why I think Raiden's blade can harm Hulk. As the in-game description states, the blade weakens bonds to a molecular level. In comparison, Wolverine's claws are just durable with no other interfering properties such as weakening particle bonds, and yet he can slice Hulk's skin open. So all in all I don't see a reason for Raiden's HF blade to fail against Hulk's skin. However, I can't expect you to be satisfied with just a description.

There are several instances where his blade has done more damage than what it looks like it can do.

Guard Duty

Loading Video...

Skip to 12:45 and 16:30. The sword can cut metals beyond its physical reach because of its molecular level precision. 12:40, Raiden cuts the RAY's arms off with the utmost ease. Same thing happens at 16:30, Raiden splits the RAY is half with surgical precision. Make sure you take note that this blade isn't dependent on Raiden's strength. When Raiden cuts something, the sword is doing the majority of the work.

Escape From Denver

Here is another instance that proves Raiden barely needs strength to split metals in half.

Loading Video...

Skip to 2:50. Raiden doesn't flinch a muscle and pretty much let the blade do all the work. Even for a strong guy like Raiden, the drone he was standing on would have had effect if he was using any other sword. It was just a smooth cut.

Main Point

This will either make or break my entire debate. I'm solely relying on this bladed weapon to slice Hulk up.

Now although my knowledge on Hulk is limited (as with most Marvel characters), I do believe Hulk has had his hard times keeping up with Spider-Man in the past. Raiden already has a speed advantage over Hulk. Raiden is arguably faster than Spider-Man and if Wolverine can even stand the SLIGHTEST chance to Hulk, this adds more to my advantage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sipSV9ULNF8 (I won't post a video I've already posted but this is a link to the Guard Duty mission - refer to 15:10)

Here we have Raiden, with barely any cyborg enhancements use anti-tank missiles as stepping stones to make his way to the giant RAY. I think its safe to say Raiden is a comfortable missile timer.

Raiden vs Sundowner

Loading Video...

Skip to 6:50. Just adding in more to Raiden's agility and more rocket timing.

To summarize

  1. Raiden should have the offensive gear to penetrate Hulk's skin. His High-Frequency Blade weakens particle bonds and I compared that to Wolverine's claws. I've given evidence to support the blades slicing capabilities and the fact that Raiden barely needs strength to use it.
  2. Raiden has superior speed to Spider-Man in which Hulk has had trouble keeping up with in the past. Raiden is a comfortable missile timer and is very athletic, this location we have here works perfectly for Raiden to use as obstacles.

I'll get more in-depth after you counter my points.

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#16 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Good, i will write my reply tomorrow maybe in the afternoon. I hope you're ok with that.

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#17 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Take your time man, I'm in two other debates at the moment XD

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#18 Posted by Lvenger (36181 posts) - - Show Bio

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#19 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Lvenger (36181 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Glad to be here for the debate.

Also @ghostravage sorry to interrupt the debate again but when you say you're only using Indestructible Hulk feats, does that include all Marvel Now appearances and feats by Hulk or just feats in Waid's Indestructible Hulk?

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#21 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: I meant Indestructible Hulk appearances... Like Hickman's Avengers, Secret Avengers, Indestructible Hulk, even Avengers+X-men... But that's it, pretty much his shows from between 2012-2013.

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#22 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Alright mate, here we go...

Strategy

I just skipped the Gear Explanation since Indestructible Hulk's armor provides no enhancement whatsoever, atleast not against Raiden. Anyway, my strategy is plain and simple... Hulk Smash.

So let's start by countering some of your fundamental points:

I guess I'll start by proving why I think Raiden's blade can harm Hulk. As the in-game description states, the blade weakens bonds to a molecular level.

As impressive as the sword itself might be, im fairly certain its wont work on Hulk, given the fact that Indestructible Hulk is making his nickname worth the mention. As you said, the sword weakens bonds on a molecular level, however, Hulk already faced similar things... In Indestructible Hulk #9 and #10.

No Caption Provided

First we have Hulk beginning the issue by entering in what its going to be a little "war" in which Thor Ordinance Weaponry is going to be used... So it's fairly easy to say, those weapons are specially attuned for tough cookies like my green fellah...

No Caption Provided

Then comes this instance where he takes a full-point blank blow from this baby... But i guess you're not going to take for granted without on-panel proof am i right?

No Caption Provided

As explained in the text boxes in the left bottom scene... The weapon's real purpose was to "rewrite molecules on a subatomic level using a sonic vortex"... Hulk took blasts from this weapon 6 times at point blank between 2 issues. That being said, the very basis of the sword's ability is to "move" the molecules creating space between them, ending in what it seems to be a cut... However, given the fact Hulk's molecules are awfully resistant even on a subatomic level to any alteration (which includes moving them) seems to debunk your strategy of Raiden using the swords ability as well as not exerting himself to even harm Hulk.

In comparison, Wolverine's claws are just durable with no other interfering properties such as weakening particle bonds, and yet he can slice Hulk's skin open. So all in all I don't see a reason for Raiden's HF blade to fail against Hulk's skin.

Hulk hasn't shown any kind of soft point in his current series... Wolverine being able to cut him in the past its due to Primary Adamantium being probably one of the most if not the most durable and toughest metal in Marvel Verse, and given the fact Wolverine's claws are quite sharp, it tends to cut Hulk giving him superficial damage (Savage of course)... Not the case with your sword which pretty much relies on his "molecular separation" ability.

That being said, Hulk resisted being turned into liquid by Ultron's tech itself...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

As you can see, Mad Thinker was using Ultron's Tech that its used to liquify and mold adamantium, and Hulk resisted it without any sign of significant harm at all, so it's fairly easy to say Hulk's skin is damn near close to be on its tier of durability.

Now although my knowledge on Hulk is limited (as with most Marvel characters), I do believe Hulk has had his hard times keeping up with Spider-Man in the past. Raiden already has a speed advantage over Hulk. Raiden is arguably faster than Spider-Man and if Wolverine can even stand the SLIGHTEST chance to Hulk, this adds more to my advantage.

He had hard times keeping up with them... However, currently, he's just a beast in the speed department, that of course looking at him as a 10 feet tall green behemoth that weights 1200lbs, and is still able to move at eye blurring speed...

No Caption Provided

Dat statement... Yummm... As well as several on panel proof that corroborates this statement...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

(From Right to Left)

For example, reacting to a plane that was conveniently deploy out of thin air right in front of a bunch of soldiers... Still Hulk is fast enough to stop the plane without them even noticing what was that... This is as well a reaction feat since Hulk wasn't even paying attention to the plane in the first 2 panels...

This being said, Hulk is fast enough to at the very least punch him a couple of times, which is more than enough to do significant damage on him if not KO him right away...

I'll save my other scans for your counters.

To summarize... (Copycat ;))

  • Hulk Smash puny awesome cyborg.
  • Hulk tanks pretty much everything you're going to dish making him stronger as the battle prolongs.

You turn mate.

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#23 Edited by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

Strategy

As impressive as the sword itself might be, im fairly certain its wont work on Hulk, given the fact that Indestructible Hulk is making his nickname worth the mention. As you said, the sword weakens bonds on a molecular level, however, Hulk already faced similar things... In Indestructible Hulk #9 and #10.

No Caption Provided

First we have Hulk beginning the issue by entering in what its going to be a little "war" in which Thor Ordinance Weaponry is going to be used... So it's fairly easy to say, those weapons are specially attuned for though cookies like my green fellah...

No Caption Provided

To be fair, there were three different weapons that were listed there. Airburst Plasma, Microwave Beamers, and Molecular disintegrators. So out of those weapons can you tell me which ones Hulk actually tanks? Or is there any description on the weapons? Just so I can get addition information and give an accurate counter.

No Caption Provided

As explained in the text boxes in the left bottom scene... The weapon's real purpose was to "rewrite molecules on a subatomic level using a sonic vortex"... Hulk took blasts from this weapon 6 times at point blank between 2 issues. That being said, the very basis of the sword's ability is to "move" the molecules creating space between them, ending in what it seems to be a cut... However, given the fact Hulk's molecules are awfully resistant even on a subatomic level to any alteration (which includes moving them) seems to debunk your strategy of Raiden using the swords ability as well as not exerting himself to even harm Hulk.

I think in this case the type of weapon is important. "rewrite molecules on a subatomic level using a sonic vortex", in comparison to, " this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts", they are completely different. The HF blade weakens, as in, degrades molecules, it doesn't rewrite molecules. Hulk is very resistant. His durability is insane, and I wasn't expecting such reply. However, even though these weapons are similar, they work in a different manner.

Just as a comparison, and a decent showing. Let me talk Armstrong up for a minute.

Jetstream Sam vs Senator Armstrong

Loading Video...

Skip to 7:20. Here we have Armstrong shrugging these attacks off with ease. He is infused with Nanomachines that harden in the response to physical trauma at a molecular level. Keep in mind, Sam barely has any cyborg enhancements.

Stated by Raiden after the Badlands Showdown mission
Stated by Raiden after the Badlands Showdown mission

But the sword does in fact still cut at a molecular level, Armstrong's nanomachines just harden at that level and repair (as seen when he reattached his forearm). Sam just wasn't as fast as Raiden, for it to be 100% effective. Allow me to elaborate.

Raiden vs Senator Armstrong

Loading Video...

Skip to 36:55. When Raiden slices at Armstrongs heart, he slices at such speeds that the nanomachines have little to no time to repair its molecular deconstruction which gives Raiden the opportunity to yank his heart from his chest. So while Hulk is very resistant at a molecular level, he can still fall to such trauma. Unless his healing at a molecular level is insanely fast, I believe Raiden's sword can still do some damage here.

That being said, Hulk resisted being turned into liquid by Ultron's tech itself...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

As you can see, Mad Thinker was using Ultron's Tech that its used to liquify and mold adamantium, and Hulk resisted it without any sign of significant harm at all, so it's fairly easy to say Hulk's skin is damn near close to be on its tier of durability.

Wow this is very impressive. But it still works in an entirely different manner. Softening Adamantium to remould and reshape isn't the same as cutting and degrading particle bonds.

He had hard times keeping up with them... However, currently, he's just a beast in the speed department, that of course looking at him as a 10 feet tall green behemoth that weights 1200lbs, and is still able to move at eye blurring speed...
No Caption Provided

Dat statement... Yummm... As well as several on panel proof that corroborates this statement...

Not sure who's the behemoth there. Hulk or that dragon looking thing?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

(From Right to Left)

For example, reacting to a plane that was conveniently deploy out of thin air right in front of a bunch of soldiers... Still Hulk is fast enough to stop the plane without them even noticing what was that... This is as well a reaction feat since Hulk wasn't even paying attention to the plane in the first 2 panels...

This being said, Hulk is fast enough to at the very least punch him a couple of times, which is more than enough to do significant damage on him if not KO him right away...

Fair enough, but Hulk isn't anywhere near a missile/rocket timer. Tagging Raiden is a big IF.

Guard Duty: Again I won't repost this video if it's already up so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sipSV9ULNF8 (Skip to 16:30 and 17:40). Here we have Raiden (without many cyborg enhancements) basically defy gravity with his speed alone. 16:30 we have him running down the side of a building. 17:40 we have him running up the side of a building to catch a speeding train.

Hostile Takeover:

Loading Video...

Skip to 17:50. We have Raiden running up the side of a building. Defying gravity just with his sheer speed alone. In addition to his missile timing reflexes and agility and he'll make Hulk work hard for it.

Durability

If in the rare case Hulk gets a hit on Raiden, he isn't a cushion

Hostile Takeover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J0ttzOnI5w (Skip to 46:05)

^ Raiden tanks three rockets and shrugs it off with no visible discomfort.

Assassination Attempt (Raiden vs Senator Armstrong): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALkd3DG6HA (Skip to any of these showings 14:00, 16:10, 24:50)

^ Raiden tanks multiple blows from Armstrong. His most noteworthy durability feats lies around the 24:50 mark where Armstrong punches Raiden so hard that the massive Excelsus beneath Raiden is destroyed. Keep in mind, Raiden would have soaked most off that impact, yet the multiton machine under him was completely destroyed.

So in the case where Hulk tags Raiden, keep in mind that Raiden has taken massive amounts of punishment.

To Summarize:

  • I do still believe that the HF blade will effect Hulk. It works differently than the showings you've posted, even though they are very very impressive.
  • Hulk is fast, but I don't see him reacting to someone who can defy gravity with his raw speed.
  • If Hulk gets hits on Raiden, I'm sure Raiden can take it. (Jack the Ripper ftw!)

Your turn :)

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#24 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

To be fair, there were three different weapons that were listed there. Airburst Plasma, Microwave Beamers, and Molecular disintegrators. So out of those weapons can you tell me which ones Hulk actually tanks? Or is there any description on the weapons? Just so I can get addition information and give an accurate counter.

The weapon itself generates a high frequency noise when used, see how Daredevil and Director Hill are blocking their ears when used? Not to mention it generates what it seems to be a quite unique cone of light when shot. Here's another example...

No Caption Provided

None of the weapons are described but the Sonic Assault Rifle alone, which happens to be the same weapon he tanked in the first issue, to later tank it 5 times more and its the only one whose real purpose its explained.

I think in this case the type of weapon is important. "rewrite molecules on a subatomic level using a sonic vortex", in comparison to, " this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts", they are completely different. The HF blade weakens, as in, degrades molecules, it doesn't rewrite molecules. Hulk is very resistant. His durability is insane, and I wasn't expecting such reply. However, even though these weapons are similar, they work in a different manner.

I think you're misusing the definition of "resonation"... Let me do a quick dictionary quote:

From "thefreeditionary.com":

Resonate:

  1. to resound.
  2. to act as a resonator; exhibit resonance.
  3. to amplify vocal sound by the sympathetic vibration of air in certain cavities and bony structures.

All the definition points out to be directly linked to sound, which is precisely how the Sonic Assault Rifle worked. That being said, they are nothing like "completely different", more like "quite similar" even though the rifle purpose is to alter on a subatomic lvl. The fact that Hulk electrons and protons were durable enough to withstand being altered of their composition by Thor Ordinance weaponry is proof enough the swords ability shouldn't work on Hulk, at best it would make very superficial cuts just like Wolverine, and that's a big maybe.

Wow this is very impressive. But it still works in an entirely different manner. Softening Adamantium to remould and reshape isn't the same as cutting and degrading particle bonds.

The comment was meant to be for the sword without the ability, since you compared it to Wolverine's Adamantium claws. I was referring to Hulk's skin being comparable to Primary Adamantium as claimed by Mad Thinker when he said Ultron used that tech to repair and upgrade his Adamantium frame. The point still stands.

Not sure who's the behemoth there. Hulk or that dragon looking thing?

The scan was describing Hulk... Anyway, here's the whole scan just for you to know the context... by the way, the big dragon-like guy is Fin Fang Foom (You must know him :P)

No Caption Provided

Fair enough, but Hulk isn't anywhere near a missile/rocket timer. Tagging Raiden is a big IF.

Guard Duty: Again I won't repost this video if it's already up so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sipSV9ULNF8 (Skip to 16:30 and 17:40). Here we have Raiden (without many cyborg enhancements) basically defy gravity with his speed alone. 16:30 we have him running down the side of a building. 17:40 we have him running up the side of a building to catch a speeding train.

Currently, Hulk hasn't shown any kind of struggle while fighting speedsters... In Indestructible Hulk #12 he had no problem whatsoever with them.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

(From Right to Left)

We have some radioactively enhanced cowboys that moved so fast Two Gun Kid (expert Marksman) couldn't see them... As well as having text box that mentions they actually have superspeed, as well as how its visible how only using old Colt .45 they manage to become Gatling Guns.

No Caption Provided

Yet Hulk comes and one shots all of them while combating so fast he's seen as multiple silhouettes in the same place... That's of course not mentioning Hulk has been catching rockets and missiles since classic days. It just a matter of time before he does these signature moves again.

About the video, the fact that he generates some kind of electric aura, and that he's actually moving slower than a train makes me think the electricity he generates works as a magnetic field to make him run over walls and "defy gravity" rather than being so fast he managed to that by speed alone.

Skip to 17:50. We have Raiden running up the side of a building. Defying my gravity just with his sheer speed alone. In addition to his missile timing reflexes and agility and he'll make Hulk work hard for it.

If in the rare case Hulk gets a hit on Raiden, he isn't a cushion

Hostile Takeover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J0ttzOnI5w (Skip to 46:05)

^ Raiden tanks three rockets and shrugs it off with no visible discomfort.

Assassination Attempt (Raiden vs Senator Armstrong): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mALkd3DG6HA (Skip to any of these showings 14:00, 16:10, 24:50)

^ Raiden tanks multiple blows from Armstrong. His most noteworthy durability feats lies around the 24:50 mark where Armstrong punches Raiden so hard that the massive Excelsus beneath Raiden is destroyed. Keep in mind, Raiden would have soaked most off that impact, yet the multiton machine under him was completely destroyed.

So in the case where Hulk tags Raiden, keep in mind that Raiden has taken massive amounts of punishment.

In fact, i do like that Raiden is faster than i thought... makes this more entertaining. However, i don't see him defying Gravity by speed alone he didn't look that fast in either of the videos. However, i will concede in the fact i was thinking he was significantly weaker than what you showed in the videos. Specially the last one with the explosion and all that... HOWEVER ;)... That still is not enough for my fellah to not one shot him...

For example... We have this instance in A+X #7

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7

(From Right to Left)

Hulk literally one shots a Hulk Buster that was owning Iron Man. I think the instance its self explanatory. ;)

Skip to 36:55. When Raiden slices at Armstrongs heart, he slices at such speeds that the nanomachines have little to no time to repair its molecular deconstruction which gives Raiden the opportunity to yank his heart from his chest. So while Hulk is very resistant at a molecular level, he can still fall to such trauma. Unless his healing at a molecular level is insanely fast, I believe Raiden's sword can still do some damage here.

Hulk hasn't presented any regeneration feats that i know about rather than this one in Indestructible Hulk #13... Which i think its enough to say his regeneration factor works almost instantly.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

(From right to left)

He takes a beam by a chronarchist which makes him age ridiculously fast, however, he just needs to stop taking the beam for 1 second and he's right back in his peak.

Anyway, i hope the battle prolongs... This is turning how i expected it, but im just going to lay this here...

No Caption Provided

To summarize... (Oops! I did it again! ;))

  • Hulk Smash
  • I think Hulk is fast enough to punch him a few times, let alone if he manages to grab him.
  • I still see Hulk being unharmed by the sword.

Your turn mate... :P

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#25 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by AmazonieSPL (291 posts) - - Show Bio

*Watching*

AmazonieSPL

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#28 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio
The weapon itself generates a high frequency noise when used, see how Daredevil and Director Hill are blocking their ears when used? Not to mention it generates what it seems to be a quite unique cone of light when shot. Here's another example...

No Caption Provided

None of the weapons are described but the Sonic Assault Rifle alone, which happens to be the same weapon he tanked in the first issue, to later tank it 5 times more and its the only one whose real purpose its explained.

I think in this case the type of weapon is important. "rewrite molecules on a subatomic level using a sonic vortex", in comparison to, " this blade resonates such that it weakens the particle bonds of whatever it cuts", they are completely different. The HF blade weakens, as in, degrades molecules, it doesn't rewrite molecules. Hulk is very resistant. His durability is insane, and I wasn't expecting such reply. However, even though these weapons are similar, they work in a different manner.

I think you're misusing the definition of "resonation"... Let me do a quick dictionary quote:

From "thefreeditionary.com":

Resonate:

  1. to resound.
  2. to act as a resonator; exhibit resonance.
  3. to amplify vocal sound by the sympathetic vibration of air in certain cavities and bony structures.

All the definition points out to be directly linked to sound, which is precisely how the Sonic Assault Rifle worked. That being said, they are nothing like "completely different", more like "quite similar" even though the rifle purpose is to alter on a subatomic lvl. The fact that Hulk electrons and protons were durable enough to withstand being altered of their composition by Thor Ordinance weaponry is proof enough the swords ability shouldn't work on Hulk, at best it would make very superficial cuts just like Wolverine, and that's a big maybe.

Thanks for the clarification but I think my point still stands.

Here's another definition if you just typed "Define resonate" in Google:

  1. Produce or be filled with a deep, full, reverberating sound.
  2. Produce electrical or mechanical resonance.

"Produce" being the key word here. Without getting too much into physics, molecules should technically make noise when they vibrate. We can't hear it, but we can measure it. The blade isn't based on sound, more or less just based on the frequency of the alternating current. The blade is white hot when it slices and we know vibrations cause friction/heat. Though the main point I was getting at is the fact that the Sonic Assault Rifle rewrites molecules on a subatomic level, whereas the high-frequency blade weakens the particle bonds. Hulk's durability can resist his molecules from being rearranged right? But can it resist being weakened? If not, can he regenerate his particle bonds before Raiden takes off a limb or more?

Wow this is very impressive. But it still works in an entirely different manner. Softening Adamantium to remould and reshape isn't the same as cutting and degrading particle bonds.

The comment was meant to be for the sword without the ability, since you compared it to Wolverine's Adamantium claws. I was referring to Hulk's skin being comparable to Primary Adamantium as claimed by Mad Thinker when he said Ultron used that tech to repair and upgrade his Adamantium frame. The point still stands.

Fair enough.

Currently, Hulk hasn't shown any kind of struggle while fighting speedsters... In Indestructible Hulk #12 he had no problem whatsoever with them.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

(From Right to Left)

We have some radioactively enhanced cowboys that moved so fast Two Gun Kid (expert Marksman) couldn't see them... As well as having text box that mentions they actually have superspeed, as well as how its visible how only using old Colt .45 they manage to become Gatling Guns.

No Caption Provided

Yet Hulk comes and one shots all of them while combating so fast he's seen as multiple silhouettes in the same place... That's of course not mentioning Hulk has been catching rockets and missiles since classic days. It just a matter of time before he does these signature moves again.

Nice, but I'd still argue their speed. They may move too quick to see, but then again we don't know what constitutes as "moving too quick to see". Something moving at 150 meters per second would be too quick to see. In comparison, Raiden hopscotched across a barrage of missiles (Mach 2 at least), covering several hundred meters in moments.

About the video, the fact that he generates some kind of electric aura, and that he's actually moving slower than a train makes me think the electricity he generates works as a magnetic field to make him run over walls and "defy gravity" rather than being so fast he managed to that by speed alone.

All true and frankly a good possibility, however I don't recall any statement on this subject in the game. Wouldn't there need to be a metallic item for a magnet to work though? Moreover, if this is true why doesn't he use it to automatically attach to the drone in the Escape From Denver mission (refer to my opening post) or in another instance when he runs up nothing but a concrete bridge that is collapsing in Coup d'Etat?

Coup d'Etat

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Skip to 20:15. Raiden avoids a bunch of missiles and when caught off guard and falling with a huge chunk of road, Raiden uses his sword to stop the fall then he proceeds to run up the road slab. Notice that the road slab is moving rather slowly (possibly trying to give the illusion it was slow motion) where Raiden is quick. Moreover, human can run up walls briefly, I think it takes massive amounts of momentum to run up walls for a prolonged amount of time.

In fact, i do like that Raiden is faster than i thought... makes this more entertaining. However, i don't see him defying Gravity by speed alone he didn't look that fast in either of the videos. However, i will concede in the fact i was thinking he was significantly weaker than what you showed in the videos. Specially the last one with the explosion and all that... HOWEVER ;)... That still is not enough for my fellah to not one shot him...

For example... We have this instance in A+X #7

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(From Right to Left)

Hulk literally one shots a Hulk Buster that was owning Iron Man. I think the instance its self explanatory. ;)

Without Hulk Buster feats, this isn't that impressive. To my knowledge the Hulk Buster hasn't held well in the past either, this is something Hulk has done regularly. In comparison, Raiden was relatively exhausted before Armstrong's multiton punch. And puppies? :P

Hulk hasn't presented any regeneration feats that i know about rather than this one in Indestructible Hulk #13... Which i think its enough to say his regeneration factor works almost instantly.

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(From right to left)

He takes a beam by a chronarchist which makes him age ridiculously fast, however, he just needs to stop taking the beam for 1 second and he's right back in his peak.

This is a fair showing of regeneration, but Raiden has still bested Armstrong who's Nanomachines repair and harden at molecular level.

This debate is catching fire.

To summarize (Get your own summary tag :P)

  • Again, I still believe Raiden's HF blade is enough. It'll be relatively hard but I believe with Raiden's skill, speed, and offensive weapon, he can put Hulk down.
  • Raiden is no slouch in the durability department, all he has to do is tank blunt force blows, and he has tanked multiton blows from Armstrong before, even when weak.
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#29 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp:

Thanks for the clarification but I think my point still stands.

Here's another definition if you just typed "Define resonate" in Google:

  1. Produce or be filled with a deep, full, reverberating sound.
  2. Produce electrical or mechanical resonance.

"Produce" being the key word here. Without getting too much into physics, molecules should technically make noise when they vibrate. We can't hear it, but we can measure it. The blade isn't based on sound, more or less just based on the frequency of the alternating current. The blade is white hot when it slices and we know vibrations cause friction/heat. Though the main point I was getting at is the fact that the Sonic Assault Rifle rewrites molecules on a subatomic level, whereas the high-frequency blade weakens the particle bonds. Hulk's durability can resist his molecules from being rearranged right?

Frequency its directly connected to vibrations/oscillations/waves which is precisely what sound is. It doesn't matter if the sword works on sound or not, the sonic rifle and the sword both have the same factor in common, they both work with waves and frequency... The fact that the rifle generates ultrasonic noise as well as highly ultrasonic noise not even Daredevil could hear properly strengthen my point that both weapons work with frequency rather than sound itself.

For example, Banner already had an idea of how the weapon worked, proven in Indestructible Hulk #9...

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As you can see in Banner's explanation on the top left panel... The gun seems to have a >kinetic< microgenerator. The word kinetic already makes reference to movement. I can say confidently both weapons abilities are based on the same factor.

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(From right to left) Indestructible Hulk #10

The weapon itself becomes deadlier when adjusted to augment the frequencies... It's visible how Daredevil opted for augmenting the frequencies in order to communicate and not be harmed by the sound, which becomes highly ultrasonic even going to the point of being unperceived by Daredevil. Something that needs to be ridiculously fast given the fact Daredevil's hearing its able to do this...

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He is able to hear the heartbeats of every single person in a bus... The instance its self explanatory.

Another instance corroborates the fact that the weapon indeed works with frequency in the previous issue Indestructible Hulk #9:

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As you can see, at first Daredevil was screaming and blocking his ears, but then as the robber augments the frequency the pain begins to cease.

Oh and i noticed something VERY convenient in the 2nd video of your opener... When he's charging the sword or activating its ability, there's a very peculiar sound that begins hearable but then vanishes as the sword starts generating electricity. I could assume, it's due to frequency vibrations, am i right? Which happens the be the same thing that happens with the Rifle when activated.

But can it resist being weakened? If not, can he regenerate his particle bonds before Raiden takes off a limb or more?

Well, since i think i covered anything related with the "weakening bonds" strategy... Im just going to lay this instance here which happened in Indestructible Hulk #8

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So first we have Thor falling into an Absolute Zero fountain, which by definition is able to stop atomic movement, it actually worked on Thor, however...

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Hulk manages to enter the same fountain and rescues Thor from being frozen for eternity... The text boxes say the armor did help, however, it didn't covered him in his entirety... Not to mention, Absolute Zero pretty much overwhelms everything including high temperatures if the Temp isn't high enough, again, it ceases atomic movement which is how heat is generated.

This feat not only works as a molecular resistance situation... But as a speed feat as well.

Nice, but I'd still argue their speed. They may move too quick to see, but then again we don't know what constitutes as "moving too quick to see". Something moving at 150 meters per second would be too quick to see. In comparison, Raiden hopscotched across a barrage of missiles (Mach 2 at least), covering several hundred meters in moments.

What really counters your argument is the fact the missiles are actually visible and the cowboys were not. If the missiles are still visible then they're going slower than the cowboys.

All true and frankly a good possibility, however I don't recall any statement on this subject in the game. Wouldn't there need to be a metallic item for a magnet to work though? Moreover, if this is true why doesn't he use it to automatically attach to the drone in the Escape From Denvermission (refer to my opening post) or in another instance when he runs up nothing but a concrete bridge that is collapsing in Coup d'Etat?

I wasn't expecting to use this kind of argument, but in this case i think its the only way to explain, the most logic reason for him not to use it properly in some instances is due to game mechanics, maybe the instance was purposed for you to run over a bridge when a copter is firing you missiles. Anyway, in the 3rd video of your opener, he actually uses some kind of "magnetism" on the robotic bird or w/e that is... It's visible due to him applying some electricity to it and then managing to turn 90 degrees while flying upwards a building. If anything, what he has shown it's not enough speed to defy gravity...

Skip to 20:15. Raiden avoids a bunch of missiles and when caught off guard and falling with a huge chunk of road, Raiden uses his sword to stop the fall then he proceeds to run up the road slab. Notice that the road slab is moving rather slowly (possibly trying to give the illusion it was slow motion) where Raiden is quick. Moreover, human can run up walls briefly, I think it takes massive amounts of momentum to run up walls for a prolonged amount of time.

Saw the video and sadly, i don't see him dodging a bunch of missile... More like the copters were making missiles rain without even aiming... The instance itself makes me think they were trying to destroy the bridge more than actually targeting Raiden. Although it's kind of impressive, however, the instance shows Raiden is significantly slower than Hulk. At least that one. The one with the train was better IMO.

Without Hulk Buster feats, this isn't that impressive. To my knowledge the Hulk Buster hasn't held well in the past either, this is something Hulk has done regularly. In comparison, Raiden was relatively exhausted before Armstrong's multiton punch. And puppies? :P

Hulk Busters are always durable enough to take blows from Hulk... Hulk even lost to one once (even though i think its horrible PIS :P). Anyway, the feat itself for the Buster is owning Iron Man and taking a full blast... and i mean... a FULL blast from Iron Man, a blast that drain all his energy from the suit, and we already know Iron Man has feats of tanking nukes with 1% of energy... So its assumable that his energy distribution its somehow epic.

Raiden falling to punches that can't even be compared to Hulk's in normal basis strengthen my point mate, Raiden at best is taking 2 full blows from Hulk before KO and/or dying.

And yeah... HULK LIKES PUNY PUPPIES! HULK SMA... PET! In Indestructible Hulk Special #1 (out of context but i lol'd)

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This is a fair showing of regeneration, but Raiden has still bested Armstrong who's Nanomachines repair and harden at molecular level.

We already know Hulk molecules, hell, Hulk subatomic particles seem to be indestructible/unalterable by anything but something that is pretty much unavoidable... Which is time. Nanomachines fall short infront of time. As well as Armstrong being significantly slower than Hulk in pretty much every aspect.

This debate is catching fire.

True words are yet to be spoken mate... I agree completely :P

======================================================================================================

To summa... (Fine >:[ )

To sum it up:

  • The main point still stands, and clearly visible with the proof i've shown both weapons work in an awfully similar way.
  • Hulk Smash.
  • Raiden is not surviving more than 4 hits... And that's being generous.
  • At best, you'll do superficial cuts or just simply piss off Hulk making this battle even worse for Raiden.

Your turn mate ;)

BTW: Sorry for the resolution of the scans in spoiler blocks... I couldn't upload them in medium nor small... i don't know why :)

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#30 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Thank you man, im enjoying this quite a bit :P... Makes me kind of want to play that game though.

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#32 Posted by homicidalmaniac (10894 posts) - - Show Bio

When will voting start

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#33 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage This will probably be my closing debate. You've made me work hard here and in turn I've learnt heaps.

Frequency its directly connected to vibrations/oscillations/waves which is precisely what sound is. It doesn't matter if the sword works on sound or not, the sonic rifle and the sword both have the same factor in common, they both work with waves and frequency... The fact that the rifle generates ultrasonic noise as well as highly ultrasonic noise not even Daredevil could hear properly strengthen my point that both weapons work with frequency rather than sound itself.

I concede that both weapons use high amounts of frequency, but in definition to the rewriting of molecules vs. the weakening of particle bonds, we'll just have to let the voters decide who put up the more compelling argument. Without taking too much away from Hulk's durability, I think Raiden will find it extremely tough to penetrate Hulk's skin, though still possible.

Another instance corroborates the fact that the weapon indeed works with frequency in the previous issue Indestructible Hulk #9:

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As you can see, at first Daredevil was screaming and blocking his ears, but then as the robber augments the frequency the pain begins to cease.

Could I get some clarification on how Daredevil tanked the blast in the first scan?

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So first we have Thor falling into an Absolute Zero fountain, which by definition is able to stop atomic movement, it actually worked on Thor, however...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Hulk manages to enter the same fountain and rescues Thor from being frozen for eternity... The text boxes say the armor did help, however, it didn't covered him in his entirety... Not to mention, Absolute Zero pretty much overwhelms everything including high temperatures if the Temp isn't high enough, again, it ceases atomic movement which is how heat is generated.

This feat not only works as a molecular resistance situation... But as a speed feat as well.

I fail to see this as a speed feat, but I concede it as a high showing of Absolute Zero resistance.

What really counters your argument is the fact the missiles are actually visible and the cowboys were not. If the missiles are still visible then they're going slower than the cowboys.

Sure the missiles are visible, its part of the gameplay and everything looks better on paper. By that logic Batman is as fast as those cowboys.

I wasn't expecting to use this kind of argument, but in this case i think its the only way to explain, the most logic reason for him not to use it properly in some instances is due to game mechanics, maybe the instance was purposed for you to run over a bridge when a copter is firing you missiles. Anyway, in the 3rd video of your opener, he actually uses some kind of "magnetism" on the robotic bird or w/e that is... It's visible due to him applying some electricity to it and then managing to turn 90 degrees while flying upwards a building. If anything, what he has shown it's not enough speed to defy gravity...

In regards to the Coup d'Etat mission (the bridge/missile feat), if you were questioning whether or not you can make it across the bridge without the huge slab of road breaking off catching Raiden off balance, then no you can't, it's 100% part of the plot (you can't progress the game without running up the road). If you weren't referring that instance, then discount what I just said. In regards to the third video, his blade is strengthened with an alternating current, it should be enough to override technology for the most part.

Saw the video and sadly, i don't see him dodging a bunch of missile... More like the copters were making missiles rain without even aiming... The instance itself makes me think they were trying to destroy the bridge more than actually targeting Raiden. Although it's kind of impressive, however, the instance shows Raiden is significantly slower than Hulk. At least that one. The one with the train was better IMO.

Raiden doesn't dodge the missiles, more or less just avoids them, the player controls Raiden at that point and again, everything looks better on paper or cinematic cut-scenes (like the train chasing feat).

Hulk Busters are always durable enough to take blows from Hulk... Hulk even lost to one once (even though i think its horrible PIS :P). Anyway, the feat itself for the Buster is owning Iron Man and taking a full blast... and i mean... a FULL blast from Iron Man, a blast that drain all his energy from the suit, and we already know Iron Man has feats of tanking nukes with 1% of energy... So its assumable that his energy distribution its somehow epic.

So Iron Man robbed the Hulk Buster of its energy before Hulk one-shotted it? Now its less impressive :P

In regards to the Raiden vs Armstrong feat. Everything prior to the huge Armstrong one-shot, was Armstrong holding back. This is clear where he lets Raiden beat up on him with zero effect. But Armstrong's hits prior to the one-shot put Raiden on the brink of death, then Armstrong one-shots the giant Excelsus. That's pretty impressive.

In conclusion

I didn't expect such a debate to be honest and I still feel that the subject of whether or not Raiden's blade will work is inconclusive, so I'll leave it up to the voters to choose who had a more compelling argument on that topic.

I concede that Hulk's durability will be troublesome indeed, but the Mad Thinker got no skillz :P

To counter, Raiden has the speed, agility and (in my opinion) the offensive weaponry to give Hulk a gnarly fight, and if it comes down to it, if Hulk does get some lucky shots in, even Raiden at 0.1% health can tank a massive Armstrong Excelsus one-shot punch :P

Awesome debating, looking forward to seeing you're response and I'm clear for votes.

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#35 Edited by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

I concede that both weapons use high amounts of frequency, but in definition to the rewriting of molecules vs. the weakening of particle bonds, we'll just have to let the voters decide who put up the more compelling argument. Without taking too much away from Hulk's durability, I think Raiden will find it extremely tough to penetrate Hulk's skin, though still possible.

Agreed. *take a huge breath* *exhale*... :P

Could I get some clarification on how Daredevil tanked the blast in the first scan?

He didn't tank it... More like took it for 1 second and moved out of the way. As seen in the next scan, he is significantly far from the area of the burst. The weapon its used to kill the robber when he manages to escape in the next scene...

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It worked pretty damn fast and judging by how it was, im assuming the distance has to do with the effectiveness of the weapon since it's a vortex of vibrations, you may know waves expand across the medium losing strength... I feel like a physics geek now :P

I fail to see this as a speed feat, but I concede it as a high showing of Absolute Zero resistance.

Fair enough... It's more about interpretation in the speed department. For me, he did rescue Thor quite fast, he was lost in fountain after all.

Sure the missiles are visible, its part of the gameplay and everything looks better on paper. By that logic Batman is as fast as those cowboys.

How so? Batman may be able to be seen as a blur on night with his gear serving as camo... But not in the middle of the day in the wild west. Anyway, i think the point stands... If Hulk had no trouble whatsoever with radioactively enhanced cowboy speedsters, he shouldn't have trouble with Raiden... Aaargh... You got lucky, i had some more instances but since im not in my computer, i just have Indestructible Hulk till issue 13 here since my computer is getting fixed (also one of the reasons why i chose to use Indestructible Hulk >:] )... All my Avengers and Secret Avengers scans are on another HD... So i think i'll show you tomorrow even though after this im going to open votes :)

In regards to the Coup d'Etat mission (the bridge/missile feat), if you were questioning whether or not you can make it across the bridge without the huge slab of road breaking off catching Raiden off balance, then no you can't, it's 100% part of the plot (you can't progress the game without running up the road). If you weren't referring that instance, then discount what I just said. In regards to the third video, his blade is strengthened with an alternating current, it should be enough to override technology for the most part.

I was referring to the instance since you asked me this...

  • Moreover, if this is true why doesn't he use it to automatically attach to the drone in the Escape From Denvermission (refer to my opening post) or in another instance when he runs up nothing but a concrete bridge that is collapsing in Coup d'Etat?

Then i said it was maybe because of game mechanics/plot purpose of the game. Anyway, the "magnetism" ability was speculated by me... However, you gotta admit, there are many things that point out to be that. If anything, im quite sure its not by speed alone.

Raiden doesn't dodge the missiles, more or less just avoids them, the player controls Raiden at that point and again, everything looks better on paper or cinematic cut-scenes (like the train chasing feat).

Agreed, however, in your video of Raiden vs Armstrong, while you're controlling him, he managed to do some pretty good combat speed showings (Not saying it's enough for Hulk... But impressive) and significantly better than the bridge.

So Iron Man robbed the Hulk Buster of its energy before Hulk one-shotted it? Now its less impressive :P

No sir... Iron Man ran out of energy after using what it seems to be his most powerful blast on the Hulk Buster, for it to end unphased by the beam, to ultimately getting one shot'd by Hulk :P... Nice try but nope lol... Feel free to re-read the instance.

In regards to the Raiden vs Armstrong feat. Everything prior to the huge Armstrong one-shot, was Armstrong holding back. This is clear where he lets Raiden beat up on him with zero effect. But Armstrong's hits prior to the one-shot put Raiden on the brink of death, then Armstrong one-shots the giant Excelsus. That's pretty impressive.

I may have skipped that part since i only saw what you told me to see. Anyway, i don't think the Metal Gear verse is on Hulk's tier, but surely the characters are WAY beyond Street levelers.

In conclusion

I didn't expect such a debate to be honest and I still feel that the subject of whether or not Raiden's blade will work is inconclusive, so I'll leave it up to the voters to choose who had a more compelling argument on that topic.

Neither do i... I admittedly thought Raiden didn't have the slightest chance and that he was just a powerful street leveler with an overpowered sword. And agreed, lets leave it to the voters.

I concede that Hulk's durability will be troublesome indeed, but the Mad Thinker got no skillz :P

Hahahaha, agreed, that's probably his most powerful attribute currently, hence the nickname... I think he hasn't been hurt yet in between 4 different series more than 70 issues altogether.

To counter, Raiden has the speed, agility and (in my opinion) the offensive weaponry to give Hulk a gnarly fight, and if it comes down to it, if Hulk does get some lucky shots in, even Raiden at 0.1% health can tank a massive Armstrong Excelsus one-shot punch :P

Awesome debating, looking forward to seeing you're response and I'm clear for votes.

On my side... I see the sword being unable to act the same way on Hulk, that of course if it even acts on him. The speed may be troublesome at first, just for plot purposes (lol), but Hulk will tag him multiple times... He's not ending alive/conscious...

I think the same, this is probably my most dedicated debate i've done in the vine so far. You can feel important :P

Anyway, changing the name for votes... Feel free to call people out. I'll do the same.

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#36 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Lvenger (36181 posts) - - Show Bio

Big kudos to MonsterStomp for taking up the seemingly mismatched debate of Raiden vs Hulk which I thought would be a stomp but he did a great job highlighting Raiden's impressive speed and agility coupled with decent physical stats too. However, I was very impressed with how @ghostravage dealt with Raiden's molecular sword as a way to hurt Hulk along with outlining the massive physical advantage Hulk possesses and emphasising the battle being a battle of time until Hulk got some clean hits on Raiden. For those reasons, my vote goes to him.

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#38 Edited by WarBlade539 (6217 posts) - - Show Bio

Normally, if it were Savage Hulk (recently transformed), I would give Raiden the edge, especially if he can decapitate Hulk before he can grow stronger. But here, in this fight, the edge clearly goes to the Big Green Goliath.

As for the debate, both parties, @monsterstomp and @ghostravage gave 'mind-blowingly' awesome arguments and counter-arguments, but I would give the edge to GhostRavage.

But fear not, if there ever was a Raiden fight, now I know who to call.

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#39 Posted by Killemall (18972 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for GhostRavage... and insanely impressed with you debate.

The amount of things you pointed out which i had originally missed were quite a bit.. well done mate.

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#40 Edited by dondave (41748 posts) - - Show Bio

GhostRavage gets my vote. The only thing I would say is that regarding the Absolute Zero feat, his armour was radiating heat to combat the effect of absolute zero. I wouldn't really put much stock in it.

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#41 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15182 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: @monsterstomp: both did very well i loved thjs battle i would actually read yaw post 3 times a day good counter from both sides but my voter goes to monsterstomp he brought up excellent ways raiden could defeat hulk. but ghost ravage is great debater iknow if i ever have a cav with him i better be on my toes:) but yea for this cav my vote goes to monsterstop

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#42 Posted by jwalser3 (6127 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for GhostRavage... and insanely impressed with you debate.

The amount of things you pointed out which i had originally missed were quite a bit.. well done mate.

@ghostravage couldn't have said it any other way nicely done!

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#44 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

Too Close to Call on my part.

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#45 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16756 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this was a good debate, but I don't see what impressed people so much more about Ghostravage than Monsterstomps. I think he had much less to work with, and pulled out feats that were on point with the topic. @monsterstomp gets my vote for changing my initial feelings of it being a stomp to him possibly winning. Ghost Ravage didn't quite bring anything game breaking to the table.

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#46 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (2084 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Gets my vote. Both did an excellent job but it was the multiple counter examples to the HF Blade that won me over.

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#47 Posted by GhostRavage (14928 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you everybody for taking your time and voting!

7-2 for Ghostly so far... And 1 too close to call (@indiecomicsftw hipster! :P)

For how long do you want to keep the votes open @monsterstomp?

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#48 Posted by boschePG (6214 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: @monsterstomp:

I go with Ghost.

Monster did put up a strong argument of his resonating sword, and people have got Hulk that way. The thing is I in no way think Raiden can tank a Hulk hit. Ghost put up Hulks upgrade in speed and even mentioned that Raiden would get squashed if hit. Ghost covered everything he needed to win. You put up good info though on Raiden, Monster

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#49 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3399 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you everybody for taking your time and voting!

7-2 for Ghostly so far... And 1 too close to call (@indiecomicsftw hipster! :P)

For how long do you want to keep the votes open @monsterstomp?

I am convince Raiden can win, but not so much how often.

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#50 Edited by MonsterStomp (36562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

Thank you everybody for taking your time and voting!

7-2 for Ghostly so far... And 1 too close to call (@indiecomicsftw hipster! :P)

For how long do you want to keep the votes open @monsterstomp?

Ha ha. Leave the voting open for a little longer, I rather like the feedback, in terms of why the viner's voted, the debate came pretty close.

I applaud you GhostRavage! Proving why you aren't to be underestimated :P