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#1 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup, rocking out another CaV against the one and only @fetts. Let's do this=)

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616 Gamora (defended by @fetts):

This will be the 616 version excluding the following: Civil War II, Infinity Wars, and the current Guardians of the Galaxy (2017). She will be equipped with the Godslayer (sword), her knife (unnamed), energy spear, and laser pistols. She will be facing...

Aphrodite IX (defended by @wyldsong)

This of course will be a composite Aphrodite, with an awakened IX as my figurehead. She will be equipped with her twin blade kata, the Blood Sword, Aphrodite V's rifle, and IXs dual laser handguns.

The Background Story:

In a combined universe sort of deal, there is a galactic tournament of the galaxy's most skilled and talented warriors. It has been a brutal and bloody event, where the winner, is the last combatant standing, and the overall victor receives the Infinity Gem of Power. Here we are down to the final two contestants in the final match of the tournament, Gamora and Aphrodite IX. They must face each other in an anything goes, no holds barred contest.

Which of these ladies will prove to be the best of the best? We shall see...

Conditions

  • In character
  • Not so random encounter (as noted in the Background Story)
  • No knowledge of opponents, no prep, equipment as listed
  • Standard elimination rules (win by any means necessary)

Location

  • Both combatants start on opposite sides of the center arena (grey portion in the center), within sight of one another
  • Wooded and mountainous areas are considered in bounds for the battle
  • This is a neutral location unknown to both
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Challenge a Viner Rules:

  • For your vote to be counted it must not be based off the character, only the debater. Reasoning is appreciated=)
  • Regular posting, or making comments is perfectly fine. However, you are not permitted to interfere in the debate, post scans, nor start any separate debates with another user.
  • If you must correct either of us on a point or ask us a question regarding the debate, it would be appreciated if you would resort to asking us in a P.M.
  • As always, may the best debater win.

Alright @fetts, as long as everything looks good to you, start when ready. I will work on my post, and we will have to see who finishes their opener first=)

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#2 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: Alright my friend, here is my opener. This will be a re-purposed intro from an unfinished CaV. I just want to get the ball rolling, so I did the copy/paste/edit thing, and here it is, for better or for worse. Definitely looking forward to seeing how this one plays out=)

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The Aphrodite Series:

The Aphrodite Protocol was created in 1971, and was first initiated around 1980 with the creation of the Aphrodite androids. They started out as fully synthetic, but around 2011 they created the first bio-synthetic model in Aphrodite V. In 2078 they finally had the first live natural birth of a techno-biological singularity with tri-helix DNA and three additional artificial chromosome pairs, which resulted in Aphrodite IX. Aphrodite IX is known as the "Tracker Killer" model, and is a 225% improvement over the generation VII models (which puts her far above models VI and V). Our protagonist here is exceedingly unique in that she regained a sense of self above and beyond her programming, and for unknown reasons also had an artifact known as the Coin of Solomon implanted in her brain.

Now, anytime I have discussed a composite Aphrodite, that is the general opening I would give, with very little breakdown beyond that. Here, I will do a little breakdown on the various Aphrodite's and some of the differences between them. This section is actually kind of an important piece of groundwork for my debate overall, because as noted, each and every Aphrodite was an improvement on earlier models. So programming, tech, and so on were improved based on the performance, experiences and so on of the previous models. Even though I am running a composite Aphrodite, IX is more than capable of performing the feats of all of the other models, since she is the improved and apex version of them all. There have been 15 models of Aphrodite, with four of them having been featured in various stories to this point.

Lets take a look at them, shall we?

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Aphrodite IV: This was the Aphrodite featured in main Top Cow universe alongside the Witchblade, Darkness, and so on. CDI tested the original IV prototype against the Witchblade first, and when that test proved successful, she was later upgraded and sent to collect Jackie Estacado for the Sovereign (IV was successful, although Jackie was partially depowered at the time). After a few more adventures, she is later captured by the Curator, and repurposed to aid him in bringing the Top Cow artifacts together, which leads to the Rebirth storyline for Top Cow.

It should be noted that IV was the first mass produced Aphrodite, but the original protoype which was featured in most stories, had a built in weapons system that was powered by the Coin of Solomon. IV was a fully synthetic being, with superhuman attributes and durability. She also has the highest documented healing factor of any of the Aphrodite's. Aphrodite IV was one of the versions that ran around in closer to modern times.

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Aphrodite V: After the final destruction of IV and the rebirth of the universe, we are introduced to Aphrodite V in the Cyberforce books. V was the first biosynthetic hybrid organism, and served as a bodyguard for Carin Taylor (Velocity). She was an improved model over the IV series, and her feat list is growing with the current Cyber Force series and her solo miniseries. V is currently running in stories set around our year, so she is what would truly be considered the "modern day" version.

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Aphrodite IX: This is generally my figurehead Aphrodite for discussions, as IX is the penultimate of the Aphrodite series. Interestingly enough, IX was originally a full on synthetic android in her original series, but after the rebirth storyline and changes in the Top Cow U, her past changed a bit for volume 2. She was the first ever techno-biological singularity CDI created, and was a live birth, the ultimate fusion of flesh and machine. Just to be clear, volume 1 of her series did happen, and still exists as a part of her past and canon, but the nature of what she was is what they retconned for volume 2. So, it should be noted that she had some upgrades in overall power and ability between volume 1 and 2. Volume 1 takes place sometime after the year 2078, and volume 2 takes place with IX awakening from a stasis chamber in the year 2801.

IX is also the only one of the entire Aphrodite series that has the adreno-glycaline surge, which allows for stat amping, and she had the Coin of Solomon implanted in her head. It should also be noted that there were other IXth Generation techno-biological singularities created, each model bearing the name of a member of the Greek mythological pantheon:

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The IXth generation are virtually immortal, as thanks to the Coin of Solomon, CDI figured out how to reverse mitochondrial decay, so their fleshy bits don't age:

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It also looks like IX is powered by Dark Matter, which is really neither here nor there for this discussion, but kind of interesting nonetheless. As well, if any of the IXth generation are killed, they can have their digital consciousness uploaded into a spare body. As of the end of her series, Aphrodite IX was the only member of the IXth generation who had not had to upload into a new body. That being said, I am working this debate under the assumption that her spare bodies aren't near enough to the location of this CaV to be of any use. If she is taken out, she loses this match.

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Aphrodite XV: The XV series serves as a kind of subservient, worker class to the IXth generation. So, each of the IX models has a XV series working beneath them. For Aphrodite, the writers stated this series is basically a homage to the original volume 1 version of her, so Aphrodite XVs are basically Aphrodite IX from volume 1, but they are lacking in the adreno-glycaline surge, and were mass produced. Beyond not having the surge abilities and being fully synthetic, the XV series has the same features and abilities as IX:

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Those are all XV series in the matching outfits, and this is actually an important bit of information for later on in the debate. We will get to it eventually, just not in this post. It should also be noted that the XV series can produce tentacle like weapons from their backs, which are capable of channeling and using dark matter to enhance their attacks. Since I am using mainly IX's tech for this discussion and she doesn't come with that option...I won't be using it=)

The Physicals and Skills:

There was this little book that came out called "The Hidden Files", that gives a great look into IX and her tech. The only issue with it is, that like many writers, Sejic and Hawkins give what their ideas on her stats should be, but then give us feats that outpace these stats, plus there is new tech that is later introduced, that the book doesn't cover. I will still reference the handbook here and there, but won't reference the physical stats too much, since by feats, I can outpace it easily. First, let's start with a little breakdown on her more general abilities and skills from one of her original write ups:

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As we can see, Aphrodite was built to be able to amp her stats to the superhuman range overall, all thanks to her adreno-glycaline surge:

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Her built in combat computer helps her to regulate her surge use, so she isn't running "hot" all of the time and draining her power reserves (which do recharge on their own). So far in the series, we have only ever seen her hit low power reserves two times, and those were under somewhat extreme circumstances. Now, the end of her last series, there is a scene where Chairwoman Francesca drains three artifacts (the Witchblade, the Darkness, and the Angelus) in order to prep and power up IX's body for her to place her consciousness in Aphrodite's form. The noticeable effect from this, IX was able to fight a running battle through time, a battle that went throughout multiple centuries, without her being noticeably drained nor needing to recharge. This is what I consider to be the awakened version of IX, since her full potential was unlocked, and the power drain became a non-issue.

Strength: Alrighty, I used to estimate her at the 2-5 ton range, dependent on her surge usage. More recent feats, which I will discuss later, actually place her closer to the 8-10 ton range dependent on her surge usage. For the older feats, IX has made leaps between speeding flying vehicles and ripped the cockpits off of them, lifts heavy machinery and punches holes through concrete, ripped apart and rag-dolled armored robots, tosses full grown men from lower levels to upper level second floors through some railing and cracking the wall behind them, rips heavy machinery and plays discus with it taking out several foes in one strike, and has easily ripped the limbs off of foes after casually snapping titanium mesh cuffs:

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While we should already have a pretty good idea that she can hit hard, I'll get into more specifics on her striking force and strength as needed further on down the line, though realize her hands are reinforced with tensile strength metal fibers and she has an increased torquing ability with her muscles, so her hits tend to hurt a bit.

Durability/Healing Factor: Reading the initial write-up I have for her, you'll note that she was designed to withstand explosive forces of up to 1.25 megatons. Seemingly smaller explosions than that have been shown to damage her somewhat, so I can't claim that she can just "no sell" all explosions, and being designed to handle an explosion doesn't mean she can't be hurt. That being said, let's look at the actual feats and see why actually harming her will be a difficult prospect. Take for instance when she falls from a skyscraper level height, hits the ground, and gets up without a scratch:

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Note that she does think to herself about the fall being shorter than she thought, but at this point, IX had just awoken from a job and her memory had been wiped. She did not realize she was a cyborg assassin and thought she was human at the time. If she can get up from that, then I would have to say that she could tank some tonner level hits. I'll also point out her healing factor, which will help supplement her durability. Here we can see where she is hit with some high tech weaponry, keeps fighting, and is healed by the end of the fight:

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Her healing factor covers both her technological and her fleshy bits. So yes, she definitely has some staying power in a fight. I do want to point out, that the above feats was Aphrodite IX as shown in volume one of her series, where she was apt to pull more of a Wolverine style tactic in regards to dealing with firearms/explosives. In volume 2, she actually gains a bit of an upgrade in overall power and ability, and goes in for more of the dodging/agility/finesse style route.

Agility/Speed/Reaction: IX can be pretty speedy when it comes down to it. She has the speed to keep up with the likes of bullet timers, and her surge ability allows her to push into superhuman levels of speed and reaction. Take for instance a pretty good speed feat where she once cleared 13 meters in 1.2 seconds and killed a foe before they could fully realize what was even going on, all the while dodging their targeting systems and gunfire:

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Plus she has the agility and acrobatic ability to rooftop run with the best of them while traversing a city landscape:

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Some decent stuff, but nothing that puts IX beyond the capabilities of Gamora that I am aware of. We still have a bit to go, and of course, the newer stuff, I am saving until later, but don't worry, it gets a lot better=)

Skills: Cat's out of the bag on this one thanks to my initial scan on her basic abilities, but yeah, she is programmed in the use of all known weapons and all earthly martial arts. Programming (like training) doesn't exactly mean she stomps everyone into the ground, so there is still the matter of proving proficiency. Let's start with the fact that, beyond just being programmed, the IXth Generation was also physically trained as well:

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That was a young Aphrodite IX in training with other IX generation types. She has had actual training in addition to her programming and such, and has developed combat instincts and so on. I'll get into more depth on this part later on, as I am sure I will need to bring it up, but we aren't talking just pure programming here. Even the fully synthetic Aphrodite IV had actual training, so her AI was pretty exceedingly advanced. And to add to the skill bit, let's also point out that IX is an expert marksman as well, thanks in part to her targeting systems. With her targeting systems she has the ability to head shot foes while flying through the air at high speeds on a flying bike of sorts, and can make the precise shots needed to target the engines of larger flying armored vehicles as well:

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For now, we have an exceedingly very little of the hand to hand and shooting angle covered. Again, just a quick overview on my part, and nothing meant to put IX over Gamora. I am not trying to make a respect thread out of my initial post, so again, we are saving some stuff for the next series of posts=)

Equipment/Tech:

Aphrodite IX comes equipped with a little combat computer, the CDI Model V.9, that has predictive combat analysis abilities, can monitor her health, her foes health, her power usage and can break down a foe to the genetic level (intel wise that is), even to the point of telling her about their technological enhancement's and equipment. This computer let's her pilot vehicles she hasn't piloted before, learn and speak unknown languages, monitors the environment so her body can adjust itself and so on. And these systems include enhanced long range sensors, so sneaking up on her will prove a difficult task at best. Not to mention it constantly scans for weak points and can give her detailed information on a foe and the best way to kill them...this little computer ups the ante a bit, and adds to what she can accomplish and do in combat, plus it is all integrated and fully functioning with her skills and so on. She also has built in stealth tech, allowing her to do things like turn off her scent and she has minor shapeshifting to alter her features/hair color and length/etc and so on. Plus her tech allows for some very minor technopathy, pheromone emission, plus a few more things I will get into later on down the road.

I should also point out that she processes information far faster than a normal human can thanks to her combat computer and surge abilities. The first box shows how fast a human can process information, the second box shows how fast IX normally processes information, and the third box shows how fast she processes information with moderate surge usage:

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I am sounding like a broken record here, but I'll get into more details later on down the line as to just what all this amazing combination of tech has allowed her to do and accomplish. It should be noted that the Aphrodite series starting with V came equipped with the earliest versions of IX's combat computer and prediction tech. IX's of course was the most advanced, and it could do quite a bit more than the other models. With all of that out of the way for now, I'll give a painfully brief and quick rundown on the rest of her equipment, and get to closing this out:

  • Vs rifle -- Shoots .70 caliber titanium rounds, with sniping and full auto options.
  • IXs twin pistols -- These are laser pistols, and as such, they pack quite a punch.
  • IXs twin blade kata -- High tech blades with a laser edge.
  • The Blood Sword -- One of the thirteen artifacts of the Top Cow Universe, IX ends up with this at the end of her series. Basically a mystic blade with the ability to harm artifact bearers and in some cases, negate some of their powers. While the sword is stated to amp a bearer's physical stats, this is something that is hard to discuss, since most users of the blade were already superhuman and it is difficult to judge just how much it actually enhanced them. Basically, I will be ignoring that aspect of the blade for this discussion, since I cannot give anything concrete on it.

Alrighty, I will leave this where it is for now. As always, I can and will break this down more as needed, and believe me, I know it will be needed=)

In Closing:

As I am wont to do, I am giving a fairly brief rundown on IX for this opener, presenting her in a very basic fashion, on the very lower ends of her feats and capabilities. If we were going based off of just this post alone, I am sure it would not be much of a debate. That said, I actually have quite a few new feats to bring to the table for this discussion, and hopefully these feats will be enough to give IX the win over an exceedingly tough foe like Gamora. We will have new options to bring to the table for my girl here, and of course, the promised newer feats that better show off the Aphrodite series physical capabilities. Just about everything shown here is about how IX was presented the very first time I ever used her in a CaV...so believe me, we have a ways to go my friends. The good stuff is coming, I promise. Just bear with me=)

And the obligatory Aphrodite hawtness to close out with...

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Onto you my friend=)

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#3 Posted by Amendment50 (15480 posts) - - Show Bio

I swear I've seen this matchup in a CaV before.

Well it's cool anyways haha. Tag please.

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#4 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50: I know I haven't done it. Not many people have actually CaV'ed with Aphrodite beyond myself and maybe two other people that I can think of, so I have no clue. Will tag you though=)

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#5 Posted by Fetts (6243 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

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That is a mighty fine OP you got there. Loving the outfit; loving the pictures :)

At any moment, I will have to take a look at your argument and respond with an opening of my own. I'll try to get 'er done within half a week; just got a few items on my to-do list for the next couple of days.

Hoping for this to be poppin'!

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#6 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: Lol, sounds good my friend. Like I said, I am looking forward to this=)

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#7 Posted by Fetts (6243 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by Vertigo- (17823 posts) - - Show Bio
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And to think, I just finished re reading Aphrodite's material a few weeks ago. Tag me.

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#9 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@fetts: Woot=)

@vertigo-: Are you caught up on Aphrodite Vs new stuff yet? Will tag you bud.

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#10 Posted by Vertigo- (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: I honestly wasn't sure if the new V ongoing tied into the rebirth timeline or not. So I haven't checked it out

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#11 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@vertigo-: It's not the V from Cyber Force, but is another rogue Aphrodite V. She was a mass produced model, so this is the tale of another one that broke free of control.

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#12 Posted by Vertigo- (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Ah. Do you know if the case is similar for the ongoing Cyberforce run as well, perchance?

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#13 Edited by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@vertigo-: Current run of Cyber Force should basically be the same V from the previous rebirth series, but she hasn't fully broken CDI's control yet. They did give some background story on her though. The other Aphrodite shown in the current Cyber Force...they haven't revealed what model she is, and exactly what she is doing and why she is doing it. We just know she is from the future. So there are about 3 featured Aphrodite's right now, with 2 in Cyber Force, and the third in V miniseries.

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#14 Posted by Vertigo- (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Interesting. Gives me good reason to read them then. Appreciate it

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#15 Posted by Wyldsong (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

@vertigo-: While Aphrodite has always been superhuman, the V miniseries and current Cyber Force run amps it up a notch.

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#16 Posted by Vertigo- (17823 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: excellent. Always good to see Aph get a boost