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#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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Both are composite versions.

Death or KO.

Battle in Tokyo.

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#2 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I was going to make it with more detailed rules but alright.

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#4 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Mostly unimportant ones. Would you like to go first?

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#6 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88:

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Behold one of Tohos best Kaiju, Rodan. A prehistoric winged monster of enormous size. Radiated much like Godzilla. Rodan is the high flyer of the Toho monsters, utilizing powerful speeds for his attacks. Though not lacking on stats either.

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Rodan brushing off tank fire and rockets.

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Rodan gets slammed down the mountain with Ghidorah and Godzilla. Flying away from the event fine.

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Rodan tanks Angurius spike ball like attack backed by the power of Godzilla tail swipe, and subsequent small mountain impact from the crash.

Some of the basic feats of durability as Rodan has even better ones when we really get into it. For offense, Rodan is likely to open the fight with its speed and strength. Rodan is pretty strong Kaiju.

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Rodan knocking Godzilla down during flight.

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Rodan lifts 20,000 ton Godzilla with ease.

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Rodan head butts King Caesar so hard that it stuns Caesar.

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Rodan staggers Final Wars Godzilla with a blow to the head.

Through a collection of fly by attacks with its bottom scales, head butts, and lifting foes to drop them makes for a strong foe for Gamera here. The biggest argument will be us arguing flying attacks as Gamera can fly too. Only I argue the speeds and arial skill of Rodan is greater.

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Showa Rodan was confirm to be Supersonic in speeds.

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Rodan easily catches up with a super sonic aircraft trying to get away and brings it down.

this is some simple stuff for now, and when you get into some arguments why Gamera is better in these areas mention, I can pull out more feats and mention Rodan's special abilities.

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#7 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#8 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18450 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio
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Whereas modern man brought the horror of the atom bomb into the world, the ancient people of Atlantis created an equally terrifying weapon of war: bio-engineered monsters. One such weapon, the Gyaos, killed and devoured billions and sent their civilization back to the stone age. To correct their mistake they created an even more terrible monster named Gamera to wipe out the Gyaos. With his claws, teeth, and fireballs he would go on to battle the Gyaos and other threats to mankind. He also really likes children... Don't call CPS, it's cool.

Durability

Gamera's durability is easy to gauge because of human familiar. Whatever damage Gamera receives will show itself on his familiar and whatever pain he feels they will also feel. Even in the first film of the Heisei trilogy in which he is by far at his weakest human weaponry is only an inconvenience for him. A couple of surprise SAMs manage to knock him out of the sky and send him crashing into the Earth but he and his familiar are completely unharmed afterwards. A powerful barrage of tank rounds (they seem to be special explosive rounds of some sort) do no damage to Gamera, however he does seem to be in pain. A direct bombing knocks him onto his back and causes his familiar to make a face but again there is no damage to either of them.

Even the weakest Gyaos can easily slice steel with their sonic beams but Gamera is able to block these beams with his hand and only suffer superficial damage which shows on his familiar as a small bruise on her knuckle. The beam of a stronger Gyaos which is roughly twice the normal size causes his arm to bleed out but he shrugs it off. His shell tanks the beam of an even stronger super Gyaos and though the beam does manage to hit his head his familiar's corresponding wound shows how minimal the damage really is. The same beam is spammed into Gamera's head and although he bleeds and his familiar suffers a painful headache he keeps holding on and the Gyaos only escapes by cutting its own foot off. He and his familiar were also fine after he fell onto an oil refinery which exploded spectacularly. The explosion was actually absorbed by Gamera and made him strong enough to oneshot the super Gyaos and tank its beams but falling from orbit without any damage is still impressive.

Keep in mind that this Gamera was incredibly weak compared to G2 and G3 Gamera who would make him look like fodder. I'll show his feats from the other two films later when this gets serious.

Offense

Again I'll just be using G1 feats for now. Even this weak Gamera could slap a 20 ton Gyaos hard enough to cause an explosion. He could also burrow underground and emerge for a surprise attack. His elbow spike is a nasty and sneaky weapon that can cut a large gash in a super Gyaos and send it flying into a building. This same super Gyaos tanked an impressive barrage of missiles. After flying into space with the super Gyaos he bit onto it hard enough that it couldn't escape and then tried to piledrive it from space. The super Gyaos had to cut its own foot off to escape.

Flight speed

In G1 Gamera was keeping up with a mach 1 Gyaos and later was able to propel himself out of the atmosphere quickly. He was overtaken by the super Gyaos which is mach 3.5 but again these are his weakest feats.

Summary

Even the weak G1 Gamera who is pathetic compared to the Gamera from G3 can rival Rodan physically. Not only that, Gamera is more intelligent than Rodan which shouldn't be underestimated. Rodan is also very similar to a Gyaos, the very creatures Gamera was designed to kill. Gamera is in his element here and I've yet to even show what he's fully capable of.

@sirfizzwhizz

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

By the way, my opponent has great taste in kaiju.

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#11 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88: Be a few days but I will get back by Thursday.

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: That's fine, take your time. I'd hate for such a good debate to be rushed.

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#13 Posted by SuperGoku17 (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#14 Posted by deactivated-5b466be4b5981 (3660 posts) - - Show Bio

wew t4v

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88: I'm posting later tonight

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V!

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#19 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88:

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Durability

Gamera's durability is easy to gauge because of human familiar. Whatever damage Gamera receives will show itself on his familiar and whatever pain he feels they will also feel. Even in the first film of the Heisei trilogy in which he is by far at his weakest human weaponry is only an inconvenience for him. A couple of surprise SAMs manage to knock him out of the sky and send him crashing into the Earthbut he and his familiar are completely unharmed afterwards. A powerful barrage of tank rounds (they seem to be special explosive rounds of some sort) do no damage to Gamera, however he does seem to be in pain. A direct bombing knocks him onto his back and causes his familiar to make a face but again there is no damage to either of them.

Even the weakest Gyaos can easily slice steel with their sonic beams but Gamera is able to block these beams with his hand and only suffer superficial damage which shows on his familiar as a small bruise on her knuckle. The beam of a stronger Gyaos which is roughly twice the normal size causes his arm to bleed out but he shrugs it off. His shell tanks the beam of an even stronger super Gyaos and though the beam does manage to hit his head his familiar's corresponding wound shows how minimal the damage really is. The same beam is spammed into Gamera's head and although he bleeds and his familiar suffers a painful headache he keeps holding on and the Gyaos only escapes by cutting its own foot off. He and his familiar were also fine after he fell onto an oil refinery which exploded spectacularly. The explosion was actually absorbed by Gamera and made him strong enough to oneshot the super Gyaos and tank its beams but falling from orbit without any damage is still impressive.

Keep in mind that this Gamera was incredibly weak compared to G2 and G3 Gamera who would make him look like fodder. I'll show his feats from the other two films later when this gets serious.

Those are good feats, yet I feel Rodan has some better durability feats. Some I shown were very rudimentary ones.

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Rodan tanks multiple Gravity Beams from Ghidorah with zero damage. These beams have incredible damage power to them too.

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Ghidorah energy blasts one shot multi story buildings, and wreck city blocks with ease.

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Ghidorah energy blasts strong enough to send 15,000 tons of Mothra flying. So seeing Rodan tanking theme beams with no effort is damn impressive matching Gyos beam easy. Thats not even the best part either.

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Rodan no sells Showa Godzilla's atomic breath. A breath attack that is devastating in power.

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The atomic breath can even melt down another fire breathing Kaiju with ease.

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One well place atomic attack blasts through Space Titanium and temporally damages Mechagodzilla. Space Titianium is more durable than any substance on earth. So Rodan taking it to the face is pretty impressive.

Offense

Again I'll just be using G1 feats for now. Even this weak Gamera could slap a 20 ton Gyaos hard enough to cause an explosion. He could also burrow underground and emerge for a surprise attack. His elbow spike is a nasty and sneaky weapon that can cut a large gash in a super Gyaos and send it flying into a building. This same super Gyaos tanked an impressive barrage of missiles. After flying into space with the super Gyaos he bit onto it hard enough that it couldn't escape and then tried to piledrive it from space. The super Gyaos had to cut its own foot off to escape.

Meh, even the rudimentary feats for Rodan I showed hold up. Though Rodan has some better strength feats in Heisei.

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Rodan's beak attack damages Godzilla. Hesiei GZ as you know has insane durability feats. Real out there. Yet Rodan is able to harm him. Rodan also blows apart a easy 100+ ton boulder with a strike.

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Rodan's knocks Godzilla down with fly by. the 65,000 ton monster.

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Rodan hits Godzilla so hard that Godzilla crashes, and breaks the rock formation. hitting the 65,000 ton monster hard enough to wreck 50+ meters of solid rock formation. When fighting, I feel Rodan holds a significant edge in strength.

Flight speed

In G1 Gamera was keeping up with a mach 1 Gyaos and later was able to propel himself out of the atmosphere quickly. He was overtaken by the super Gyaos which is mach 3.5 but again these are his weakest feats.

I think those are good speed feats. However, Rodan is a flyer with many special flying attacks once airborn. One such ability is the famouse sonic booms.

Sonic Booms

Rodan is so fast and so large, he generates powerful sonic booms underneath him that can damage and rattle foes. including Gamera.

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Rodan speed generates the sonic boom below him to wreck this jet.

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Rodan sonic boom tears down a large, solid steel bridge.

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Rodan sonic booms tear apart the city. on the fly by. These are perfect attacks to use along with Rodan better strnegth endge for air superiority. not to say Rodan has no ground game either, as he does. I see Gamera having issues in range due to Rodan's infamous wind attacks to that can also knock Gamera back in a ground level fight.

Wind Attacks

Rodan is able to generate hurricane gale winds, powerful enough to take out portions of cities in seconds.

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Rodan generates hurricane winds to wreck a city block.

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Rodan wrecks a village and tanks with winds.

Overall, Rodan has a wide variety of options here to take Gamera on, and better airborne attack options. I feel Rodan is as durable as next post feats will show, and will be the flat out stronger of the two in strength. All this combines into a winged victory for the famous high flying Toho monster.

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#20 Edited by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: It looks like this will be a long one, and I look forward to it. I aim to have my next post up this week.

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#21 Posted by StormShadow_X (16766 posts) - - Show Bio

God I love Kaiju battles. Tag

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#22 Edited by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio
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A Few Counters

Your claim that Rodan was tanking Ghidorah's gravity beams is false, it's obvious that he was affected and you can even see the burning damaged places on his wings where the beams struck. Even if he did tank the beams it wouldn't be an issue since neither they nor Showa Godizlla's breath have the destructive force of Gamera's fireballs. The explosions they cause are massive and make the ground shake even miles away.

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For reference Irys' height is 99 meters, just a meter shy of King Ghidorah's height.
For reference Irys' height is 99 meters, just a meter shy of King Ghidorah's height.

Rodan is a flyer with many special flying attacks once airborn.

Gamera is just as adept at fighting in the air as Rodan and due to his tough shell is like a hypersonic tank. Here he slams into Irys and then performs a spinning attack. They were both flying at mach 9 while trading blows during most of this battle.

Beyblade Beyblade let it rip!
Beyblade Beyblade let it rip!

The sonic booms won't be an issue. Knocking down a bridge, destroying a jet, and blowing cars around is nothing to a beast like Gamera who was at the center of a city busting explosion that left a massive crater. He was KOed and put into a coma for awhile but this was the weaker G2 version not G3 and I doubt Rodan would have survived at all.

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Gamera is durable enough to tank much of what Rodan throws at him be it beams, claws, or ramming attacks and Rodan won't be able to take very many fireballs. He can also fight him in the air and is arguably more maneuverable since Rodan relies a lot on speed. Gamera is also in fact faster than Rodan who is only supersonic whereas Gamera can fly and fight at hypersonic speeds. I could go on but Gamera is just superior in every category. Rodan will be no different than the millions of Gyaos he's slaughtered.

@sirfizzwhizz

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#23 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88: I will have my last post up this coming Thursday

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#24 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88: I will get my last post up this coming Thursday.

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I was expecting us to go longer than that, but that's okay.

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#26 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88:

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A Few Counters

Your claim that Rodan was tanking Ghidorah's gravity beams is false, it's obvious that he was affected and you can even see the burning damaged places on his wings where the beams struck. Even if he did tank the beams it wouldn't be an issue since neither they nor Showa Godizlla's breath have the destructive force of Gamera's fireballs. The explosions they cause are massive and make the ground shake even miles away.

I never said Rodan took no damage but singe marks being the only damage is pretty much tanking the attacks. The Showa Godzilla's Heat Beam and Ghidorah's Gravity Beams are a tad bit more destructive than Gamera's fire balls IMO.

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The atomic breath can even melt down another fire breathing Kaiju with ease.

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One well place atomic attack blasts through Space Titanium and temporally damages Mechagodzilla.

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The atomic breath is so powerful, that is actually lifted and sent flying the 20,000 tons of Godzilla, at airline speeds, and then flies back at the same speeds over 40,000 tons of Godzilla and Hedora. That is weaker Showa level Rodan, the Heisei one was even more durable.

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Rodan brushes off the Heat Beam. Remebrrt how powerful the heat beam is for Heisei GZ?

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Used on the heat shield made of special synthetic diamonds. This shield was designed to absorb the nuclear heat and return it. Fails to tank the Heat Beam after several tries.

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Heat Beam is powerful enough to blow of king Ghidorah's head. A Monster immune to all forms of conventional weapons. This is what Rodan brush off fine in Heisei, and his durability feats get better vs Mechagodzilla.

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Rodan get pounded by Mega Buster, and Maser Canon attacks with no real damage. these beams harm even Heisei Godzilla in a drag out fight.

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Rodan tanks not one, but two Plasma Grenade shots before being put down. The Mega Canon is a insane feat.

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Plasma Grenade drops Godzilla with one shot. Thats how effective and powerful it was. Rodan took two blasts after a torrent of other attacks to finally drop and stay down. Gamera's fire balls will take a long time to wear this monster down.

Gamera is just as adept at fighting in the air as Rodan and due to his tough shell is like a hypersonic tank. Here he slams into Irys and then performs a spinning attack. They were both flying at mach 9 while trading blows during most of this battle.

The sonic booms won't be an issue. Knocking down a bridge, destroying a jet, and blowing cars around is nothing to a beast like Gamera who was at the center of a city busting explosion that left a massive crater. He was KOed and put into a coma for awhile but this was the weaker G2 version not G3 and I doubt Rodan would have survived at all.

While you may think the sonic booms be nothing, I can show far more power in them via Heisei feats.

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Rodan speed generates a sonic boom powerful enough explode the stone moutain terrain below him.

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Rodan takes out multiple city blocks with his sonic booms in Heisei and Final Wars. More damage in a sonic boom fly by than Gamra's multiple fire balls.

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Rodan sonic booms explode the water underneath and rocks Hesiei Godzilla. 65,000 ton King of the Monsters was knock around. Exploding the ocean water underneath as well. They are very effective and would rock around Gamera lesser size and weight for sure IMO.

In the end of the day, Rodan has more varied attacks with Sonic Booms, Wind Attacks, and overall raw strength and durability. I think Gamera is far more limited in this fight as his only flying attacks are his two forms which limit his attack abilities. In a sky battle Rodan has more effective options and better ability. It be a fun drag out fight, but one the famous flying Kaijue would win. I dont even think the Mana Blast would be that effective as it takes time to charge and can be dodge by a flyer like Rodan. Rodan might even tank the blow since the Plasma grenade is as powerful by feats of seriously injuring Heisei Godzilla IMO.

This was a fun match up. I leave the last post for you.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

Final Post

I'm going to go over all the reasons Gamera wins this. Simple.

1: He was specifically designed to kill monsters like Rodan

Rodan is very similar to a Gyaos, and Gamera was created to fight and kill them. He's slaughtered millions of them and fighting Rodan will be similar to fighting a powerful Gyaos. The biggest difference between Rodan and Gamera's prey is actually an advantage for the turtle.

2: The heat beam is useless against Gamera

Rather than a sonic beam Rodan uses a heat beam. Gamera feeds off of heat energy and even if he somehow couldn't feed off the beam it won't hurt him. A hyper Gyaos' beams which can easily cut through anything known to man just bounce off his skin, not to mention his shell. Irys' beams are massively stronger than any Gyaos' and Gamera kept fighting while taking direct hits from them. And even if Rodan's beam was able to damage Gamera like Irys'...

2: Rodan's attacks are too straightforward

During Gamera's fights with Irys there were sonic beams as powerful as Rodan's heat beam coming from every direction at once. Despite this Gamera kept fighting and putting pressure on Irys. Rodan's heat beam coming from one very predictable direction will be really easy for Gamera to fight against. As for Rodan's other fighting moves they won't be able to put down a tank like Gamera, especially not a tank who was built to kill creatures like Rodan as I've already pointed out.

3: Gamera is the more intelligent fighter

Gamera isn't an animal like Rodan, he's as intelligent as a human being and fights as intelligently as one as well. This is a very big advantage.

4: Gamera's fireballs are very powerful

As you saw in one of my gifs, a monster only a meter shorter than the massive King Ghidorah was small next to the explosions caused by Gamera's fireballs. These earth-shaking fireballs were his normal, casual fireballs as well. He can charge them up to make them even stronger and fire off lots of them.

5: Gamera is faster and more maneuverable in the air

Gamera is mach 10+, which is very hypersonic. Rodan is frequently stated to be only supersonic. He also flies using wings which make his movements more limited than Gamera's. The turtle can move in any direction with his jets, perform spinning attacks, and more. Rodan will be much more limited in what he can do in an aerial battle and could be hindered by any damage to his wings.

6: Gamera is much more durable

A city leveling explosion that turned Gamera's surroundings to dust and created a huge crater KOed him but didn't kill him. That would have killed Rodan, no question. Gamera can also take a lot of punishment before going down.

7: The mana blast

I wasn't sure if I was going to bring this up but I might as well. The mana blast was used towards the end of Gamera 2 and came out of nowhere. It's his strongest attack where he gathers life energy from the whole Earth and fires it as a huge golden beam from his belly. It blew away a Biollante sized monster completely and would definitely one shot Rodan but I admit Rodan might be able to evade it. I doubt Gamera would resort to it in this fight anyway but keep it in mind.

This was a great debate

I'm glad there are other kaiju fans on the Vine. I hope we do another CaV like this one in the future.

May the best win.

@sirfizzwhizz

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@ig-88: Looks good. I will open for votes and you can make the Samurai Jack vs RotJ Luke Skywalker thread.

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#30 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: @ig-88: I missed the tag somehow. Will drop a vote in the next 2 or 3 days. If someone thinks of it, a reminder would be appreciated=)

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#31 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Gojira2512 (2136 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Thanks for the tag.

I,m going to vote for Rodan because he can dodge best Gamera attacks like Mana Blast and he looks even more durable than Gamera and has a good arsenal like his beam.