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#1 Edited by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio
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Galan the Truth repped by @kingguinness

vs

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Ulquiorra Cifer the Cuarto Espada repped by yours truly

Fight takes place here:

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They start on the tops of the two skyscrapers

  • Random encounter
  • Both fighting seriously
  • Morals off (lol)
  • Both start in base
  • This is a CaV, don't voice your opinion before the debate ends, be respectful, blah blah blah

With that said, enjoy!

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#2 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness

It's up. Look at the conditions and tell me if you want anything different. Also we need to discuss one small issue before starting :)

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#3 Posted by DeathHero61 (18761 posts) - - Show Bio

Yo that Galan pic looks so sick.....

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#4 Posted by Streak619 (7609 posts) - - Show Bio

Yo that Galan pic looks so sick.....

Taep

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#5 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP & T4V.

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#6 Posted by FaradaySloth (9229 posts) - - Show Bio

IS THAT A RASENGAN?

t4v and taep, I'm interested to see Base Ulquiorra's arguments here...

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#7 Posted by DeathHero61 (18761 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#8 Posted by Aristeaus (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

taep and t4v

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#9 Edited by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, as it's my first time repping a Bleach character let alone against someone like Guiness who has read the manga a dozen times, I might make a few mistakes, so don't be too harsh on me:)

With that said, let's get to it !

Ok, so this fight basically comes down to whether Ulquiorra can last long enough to go into his higher forms at which point it becomes a bona fide stomp.

Well he can, let's see why.

First of all, Ulquiorra is particularly adept at Pesquisa (an ability shared by Arrancars by which they can detect the strength of their opponents), using it to determine the spirit levels of everyone in Karakura town and the levels of Ichigo, Orihime and Chad.

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Ulquiorra determining Chad, Orihime and Ichigo's spiritual pressure/fighting ability with a glance

Pay special attention to the second last scan. Ulquiorra reprimands Yammy to himself saying he could have judged Ichigo's fighting ability if his Pesquisa was more developed.

Which means Ulquiorra will immediately know how strong Galan is here and fight accordingly.

The next thing is, if Ulquiorra has the speed to avoid Galan initially, which fortunately he can, because Ulquiorra's a pretty fast dude.

Let's start with something simple, and then we can build from there.

Blitzes Orihime's bodyguards from several metres away while moving completely FTE to Orihime herself.

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So Ulquiorra moved several metres, blitzed that poor Soul Reaper's arm off, and was back at his initial position, all so fast that Orihime didn't even see him move, let alone react.

Pretty impressive stuff because Orihime as far back as SS arc has shown some damn good reactions, being able to block a grenade explosion point blank.

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Orihime reacts to and defends against a point blank grenade explosion

With a bit of googling, I found that apparently grenade shrapnels are ridiculously fast, and the lowest number I got is nearly Mach 20

Orihime reacted to that point blank while Ulquiorra basically lol blitzed from several metres. Mind you that this Orihime is likely stronger than her SS arc counterpart (post training with Rukia) and Ulquiorra performed this feat casually in base.

Without getting too much into numbers, I'd say this feat alone is probably high mid double digit mach bare minimum.

Next, we have base Ulquiorra moving too fast for Bankai Ichigo to track.

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While he is slightly more serious here, I wouldn't call it his max effort by any means, at best he is just not toying with Ichigo here.

This is impressive because Bankai Ichigo is pretty fast himself.

Back in SS arc, Bankai Ichigo was able to deflect all of Byakuya's petals which attacked him from all sides and were already dangerously close to him.

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Again without going into too much assumptions or calcs, I think we can safely take a few objective minimums:

  • Seeing as even Orihime could react to a point blank near Mach 20 explosion, I think its absurd to think one of Soul Society's top Captains, one renowned for his speed at that, activating his Bankai, can have an attack speed anything less than hypersonic+. Honestly, Byakuya's Bankai should be able to blitz SS arc Orihime, and even in Shikai they were FTE to Renji, another character who should be faster than SS arc Orihime, but let's take a disgusting lowball and say the petals were just hypersonic, that is Mach 5.
  • From the first scan, we can see the petals are incredibly close to Ichigo, can't be more than a few dozen centimeters.
  • Most absurd calcs for this feat assume he sliced his sword dozens of times before any of the petals could reach him, but that's not valid imo because all the petals were not at the same distance from him. So again, let's lowball and say Ichigo moved his sword just once before the closest petals, that is those about a few dozen cm from him, could reach him.

I think all of the above assumptions are more than reasonable and a pretty huge lowball of the feat tbh, still it does give us a bare minimum.

So Ichigo swung his sword around in a full circle (since the petals surrounded him from all sides) before hypersonic petals could cover a few dozen cm.

Again I will leave the exact calcs to the math geeks but just looking at it I am sure you can see why this is easily a high double digit Mach maybe low triple digit for Bankai Ichigo's speed.

And the Bankai Ichigo that Ulquiorra fought is much more powerful overall from his SS arc self obviously, due to the many training arcs and fights against powerful opponents he went through.

And base Ulquiorra was still moving too fast for him to track or react to from dozens of metres away.

But this is still not base Ulquiorra's limit as he was able to react to even Hollow Ichigo without much issue.

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As we can see, Ulquiorra reacts to and blocks a blitz from Hollow Ichigo, then is able to fire a Cero while Ichigo is charging him, and finally moves fast enough to speed past Hollow Ichigo without the latter being able to react.

You saw how fast even SS arc Bankai Ichigo is, well Hollow Ichigo makes Bankai's speed look like fodder.

A good example of really how fast Hollow Ichigo compared to Bankai is comes in the Hueco Mundo arc itself when Hollow Ichigo effortlessly blitzes and one shots Dordoni, a character who could more or less keep up with Bankai Ichigo.

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Ichigo got stronger after fighting Grimmjow from there, so he is probably even faster by the time he faced Ulquiorra.

And as we saw, even Hollow Ichigo isn't enough to blitz base Ulquiorra and in fact Ulquiorra's movement speed is too fast for Hollow Ichigo to react to. Pretty solid overall.

That would be it for now, obviously I haven't come to Ulquiorra's best feats yet, but I think I have given a general idea of the level where even base Ulquiorra operates at, and I honestly don't think Galan is fast enough to overwhelm him with speed right off the bat, which is his only chance.

When it comes to durability, while Ulquiorra likely can't just no sell Galan's hits, I don't really believe base Galan will be doing much to him either, at best surface wounds if I am being honest.

Base Ulquiorra borderline no sold a point blank Getsuga from Bankai Ichigo and was barely cut.

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Impressive because Shikai Ichigo while fighting Kenpachi back in the SS arc nearly brought down the Senzaikyu, which is a massive prison block, just as the collateral of their clash.

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Shikai Ichigo's cutting power should be at the very least multi building lvl there seeing just the shockwaves of their clash did that kind of damage.

And since you have apparently read Bleach a dozen times or so, I am sure I don't need to tell you just how absurdly above SS arc Shikai Ichigo an Getsuga from Hueco Mundo arc Bankai Ichigo scales in damage output, but if you do want me to prove it by scans, don't feel shy to ask.

Anyway, Ulquiorra took a point blank Getsuga from Bankai Ichigo and was barely cut, while Galan's likely stronger than HM arc Bankai Ichigo, I doubt the difference is so big that he can just one shot Ulquiorra.

And that is if Galan gets to land a point blank hit like Ichigo did there. Which won't be easy at all because Ulquiorra would know to keep his distance from him, and Ulquiorra can fly and is likely faster, so it will be hard for Galan to even tag base Ulquiorra let alone get a direct point blank hit like that on him.

I am aware that Galan also uses shockwaves from his weapon, so to give a similar feat of durability, base Ulquiorra also pretty much no sold a ranged Getsuga from Hollow Ichigo, in fact nearly stopped it with his hands.

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Albeit this was pre Grimmjow fight, still would scale massively above Shikai Ichigo from SS arc, and I have already shown you the enormous boost the Hollow mask gives from Bankai (one shotting a dude who tanked all of Bankai's attacks).

So all in all, I doubt Galan will be able to damage Ulquiorra much while both are in base, that's of he can reliably tag Ulquiorra in the first place, which will be hard given Ulquiorra's ridiculous combat, reactions and even flight/movement speed even in base.

That Galan can't fly doesn't help matters either.

Another thing to consider is that even if Ulquiorra does take some damage in the initial moments, it will all be healed the moment he goes Ressureccion, as we have seen with Arrancars.

So now all that remains is how Ulquiorra puts the demon down, which is simple because Ulquiorra can spam immensely destructive energy blasts with absurd AoE.

But first of all, let's talk pure physical strength. Again Galan's likely stronger but I doubt cqc melee is gonna help him much here since Ulquiorra won't engage Galan in that.

Even so, base Ulquiorra has managed to slice Bankai Ichigo's Getsuga post Grimmjow fight.

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And this Bankai Ichigo is actually stronger than Hollow Ichigo from early HM arc, as is confirmed on panel.

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Now all that's left is Ulquiorra's energy projection, which is extremely impressive and is what makes him so dangerous.

Once Ulquiorra moves out of melee range for Galan, he will almost certainly go into at least first Resurrecion sooner or later given Galan's strength and blast the crap out of the demon.

So let's see a feat for R1 Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras:

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Blasts away half the roof of Las Noches and heavily injures Hollow Ichigo, breaking his mask in the process.

Now Las Noches is massive, like at the very least large city, probably small island sized if I am being honest.

This is because according to Neliel, a former Arrancar, it takes a 3 day walk to Las Noches' main gate, so at bare minimum that is half Las Noches' perimeter.

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Again a quick google search reveals that normal humans walking at a moderate pace can easily cover more than 90 miles in a day.

Now we need to consider Neliel is basically a spirit who doesn't need to eat or sleep and moves at superhuman speeds and you begin to realize just how massive Las Noches is.

A single blast from R1 Ulquiorra not only blew away half of Las Noches but also severely damaged Hollow Ichigo who has pretty impressive durability himself, being able to tank his own Getsuga and all.

Also it goes without saying the AoE of the attack is absurd as well, and Ulquiorra can obviously spam these.

I don't think Galan's even taking one of these to the face tbh, and given the AoE of the attack, he likely isn't dodging either. So this fight becomes a stomp the moment Ulquiorra reaches R1 at least.

Why Ulquiorra wins?

  • As I said, this really comes down to whether Galan can overwhelm Ulquiorra physically before the latter accesses a higher form, as is the case with many Uquiorra matchups.
  • I don't think Galan can honestly, because Ulquiorra is ridiculously fast even in base, and having flight is a massive advantage obviously.
  • With Pesquisa Ulquiorra won't try to engage Galan in base or cqc.
  • Ulquiorra's durability even in base is enough for me to think it will be possible for Galan to do real damage only if he lands direct hits, and even then I doubt it would go beyond surface wounds.
  • Even if Ulquiorra does take some damage initially, it will all be healed the moment he accesses a higher form, as we have seen from even much weaker Arrancars.
  • Once he goes even R1, Ulquiorra stomps the demon. He can spam large city busting Ceros (and that is a bare minimum) with comparable AoE from a distance and Galan can neither dodge nor tank them.

All in all, Ulquiorra wins rather handily.

Over to you:)

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#10 Edited by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Aristeaus (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

It's up. As it's my first time repping Bleach, would appreciate some feedback.

We cant comment until voting, but will do.

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#13 Posted by ValorKnight (12364 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8002 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm, solid post. I'm looking forward to how KG reps Galland.

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#15 Posted by ourmanuel (11379 posts) - - Show Bio

You read bleach? @shirso

Either way, some things I disagree with but TAEP

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#16 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by KingGuinness (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Nice post. I should have an opener up within a day or two

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#18 Posted by Cergic (1138 posts) - - Show Bio

I suspect that some Jimmies will be rustled here. Nice opener btw

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#19 Posted by FaradaySloth (9229 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: you should also have mentioned that Pesquisa determines the actual location of someone practically preventing the blitzes Galan does when he leaps.

Other then that, I agree on most points, good opener.

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#20 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Great post, but Galan can actually fly with darkness.

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#21 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4571 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely TAEP

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#22 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio

bump for voters

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#23 Posted by SkySanji (4582 posts) - - Show Bio

WTF a NNT vs. Bleach CaV and I was not aware?

TAEP.

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#24 Posted by SkySanji (4582 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso: Amazing opener btw it's interesting seeing you repping Bleach.

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#25 Posted by AlexTheBoss (17417 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#26 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:

@shirso: Amazing opener btw it's interesting seeing you repping Bleach.

Ha ha I know right? And thanks :)

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#27 Edited by KingGuinness (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

Galland The Truth:

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Bio:

Galland is an elite warrior of the Demon Race, serving directly under the Demon Lord as "Truth" of the Ten Commandments, his handpicked group of demon warriors. Galland wields a Halberd and his inherent magical power is "Critical Over".

General Information & Powers:

Combat Classes: A Combat Class is a combatants "genuine strength" given as a numerical value. Said numerical value is composed of three things; Magic, Force and Spirit.

Magic - Magic is the strength of one's magical powers. For reference, Galland's Magic value is 1,000.

Force - Force is the combatants strength. Force doesn't take into account other physical stats like speed or durability, it is strictly raw, physical strength. Galland's Force is 24,000.

Spirit - Spirit is the combatants willpower and perseverance in a fight. Galland's Spirit is 2,000.

Given that a Combat Class is just a combatants overall strength given as a numerical value, i think it's fairly reasonable to scale and multiply certain values of another character if said characters values are explicitly shown to be far less than Galland's own. Said values are easy to ascertain since most of them are outright shown to us, and there are direct comparisons as well.

Now, in terms of actual powers and abilities Galland is a brick with a fairly straightforward powerset, although there are a couple of abilities i feel i need to explain in greater detail.

  • Superhuman Physical Characteristics
  • Magic Power: Critical Over
  • Darkness Manipulation/Regeneration
  • Soul Sucking
  • Telepathy
  • Commandment: Truth

Magic Power: Critical Over - Galland's inherent magical power. Critical Over increases Galland's physical strength to it's highest possible level, and increases his overall Combat Class from 27,000 to 40,000.

Darkness Manipulation - In Seven Deadly Sins, all demons have the inherent power to control and manipulate a malleable form of black matter known as "Darkness". With said darkness, demons are able to create darkness constructs, generate massive blasts and heal injuries.

Commandment: Truth - A Commandment is a powerful curse given to the Ten Commandments by the Demon Lord himself. Each Commandment has a specific rule that, if broken, will place a curse on the victims depending on what the Commandment itself is centered around. Galland's Commandment of "Truth" turns anyone who tells a lie before him into stone. Here's Galland's explanation of his Commandment:

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A Commandment is basically an infallible curse that can only be negated by dying, having the blessing of the Demon Lord/Supreme Deity or killing the Ten Commandments member with said Commandment in question, which in Galland's case I'd say is particularly hard to do since you'd be a stone statue by that point.

With all that stuff out of the way, lets move onto the more interesting stuff. That being the feats.

Strength:

Galland is a physical powerhouse and he tends to overwhelm and dominate his opponents with his sheer physicality. In terms of physical strength i am 100% confident in saying that Galland surpasses Ulquiorra and basically every Pre-Timeskip Bleach character, with the possible exception of two.

To back up my claim, I'll start by showing off some of Galland's early and casual feats.

In Galland's first interaction with the Sins, he shows off his impressive strength by wiping out a section of Camelot from the air pressure of a casual swing:

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Visually, the amount of material Galland just wiped out is at least multi-city block level, if not outright town level based on Arthur's statement. This was just the damage caused from the air pressure of Galland nonchalantly swinging his Halberd, and already it's visually/quantifiably superior to most of Ulquiorra's striking feats.

Next up we have Galland go to town on some of the BOS (Beginning Of Series) Sins, treating Meliodas like a child and casually repelling a full force Gideon strike from a basically bloodlusted Diane:

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Meliodas and Diane are decent powerhouses in their own right, and you can make a very convincing argument for even them being above Ulquiorra in terms of physical strength.

To give an example of how strong they are, Diane (While she was human sized and operating at half her regular strength) was able to one shot Griamore's Wall with a bare bone punch:

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This is incredibly impressive, due to the fact that Griamore has stated that his Wall can withstand meteor strikes on at least two occasions:

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Wikipedia says this about asteroid/meteoroid strikes.

"Stony asteroids with a diameter of 4 meters (13 ft) enter Earth's atmosphere approximately once per year.[19] Asteroids with a diameter of 7 meters enter the atmosphere about every 5 years with as much kinetic energy as the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima (approximately 16 kilotons of TNT), but the air burst is reduced to just 5 kilotons.[19]"

To go along with this, I've snipped the graph that was on the page:

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Going with the objective minimum of a meteor (4 meters), we can see that a meteor of that level would generate 3 kilotons of TNT, which is as powerful as a small town wiping nuke.

Meliodas scales to this level of physical strength as well, seeing as how he traded blows with a pissed off Diane only a couple chapters after she performed the aforementioned Wall busting feat:

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This is only their bare bones striking power by the way. Diane's Gideon (A giant 30+ foot tall steel hammer) would obviously amp her striking strength by a large degree, and she has a feat of one shotting a giant chunk of earth with a downwards strike:

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Keep in mind that Diane is a 30 feet tall giant, and as you can see the amount of material she destroyed/cratered is several times her size in width and height/depth. That's roughly around a hill sized chunk of material she just upchucked into the air and Galland casually deflected her strike with no effort on his part.

Now. These next two feats here should solidly prove Galland's noticeable strength advantage over Ulquiorra.

With a single downwards strike, Galland creates an enormous fissure across the ground extending past the viewers line of sight:

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And, while explicitly having more than half of his physical strength drained from him, wipes out a town/city with his Dismal Scatter Cut technique:

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If you need confirmation for Galland having his strength stolen, here you go:

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Based on the feats I've showcased thus far, Galland consistently and almost effortlessly operates at town - city levels of power, which is irrefutably above Ulquiorra.

Speed:

Ah, speed. Perhaps the most controversial physical stat and often the hardest to gauge between characters from different verses. Bleach and Seven Deadly Sins in particular are two verses where the speed feats are hard to quantify and the top tier characters speed are mostly just scaling and stacking blitzes on top of blitzes.

That was only my original stance however. Upon re-reading SDS i realized there were actually a lot more quantifiable speed feats than i gave it credit for, enough for me to say that Galland is comfortably faster than Ulquiorra.

Galland has consistently and effortlessly blitzed the BOS Sins on multiple occasions:

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Most of the BOS Sins (Mainly Mel, Diane, Ban and King) all scale to each other in speed based on direct confrontations, and the BOS Sins have supersonic - hypersonic+ speed feats.

Meliodas was able to intercept Guila and Full Counter her explosion at point blank range:

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Explicitly break the sound barrier against Gilthunder and Hendrickson:

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And consistently time Gilthunder's lightning on multiple occasions:

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King casually reacted to Guila's explosion:

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And outraced one by several dozen meters at near point blank range:

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Both feats should be hypersonic+ at least, and Galland blitzed Demon Mark Meliodas. Demon Mark is basically Meliodas's power up, and it increases his stats by a drastic amount.

Just so the readers get an idea of how much Mel's Demon Mark amps him, this is what it allowed him to do to Ban:

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It basically allowed Meliodas to blitz and one shot Ban. The crazy thing is that just prior to this, Ban had almost completely drained Mel of his physical stats using his technique Physical Hunt:

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Meliodas was almost completely robbed of his physical abilities, to the point that he collapsed on the ground because he couldn't even hold himself upright. The Demon Mark was able to completely reverse this situation and amp Mel's strength and speed to the point that he blitzed and one shotted Ban, while reduced to a state of near zero. Ban by his lonesome has stats comparable to Meliodas, and yet even while having his base stats stacked by base Meliodas's stats, he got blitzed and one shotted.

Rewinding time a bit back to Galland's first showing of speed, he casually travels from Edinburgh to Camelot in 72 paces:

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Upon inspecting the map of Britannia seen in the Seven Deadly Sins Fanbook, you'll come to see that Camelot is incredibly far away from Edinburgh:

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That little star you see at the bottom of the map is Camelot. For reference, the distance between Liones and Edinburgh is approximately 186 miles, as stated by Merlin herself:

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In order to get a better perspective, I've taken it upon myself to highlight where Liones and Edinburgh are on the map, as well as draw a line from where Edinburgh roughly is to Camelot (Two circles are Liones and Edinburgh):

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As you can see, the distance is enormous. Somewhere in the range of 600 to 700 miles at least, simply from eyeballing it.

To be conservative, we'll go with the low end of 600 miles. Galland crossed that distance in 72 paces, so 600 / 72 = 8.3 miles per step. That's casually Mach 38 for what amounts to basically Galland's walking speed.

Now, i know what you're thinking. "This is travel speed, not combat speed", and Shirso you're absolutely right. However, Galland has feats of utilizing his travel speed in combat and he's kept up with people who have reacted to his jumps on panel, proving his reactions scale to his travel speed.

In this instance, Galland reacts to Merlin's teleportation and instantaneously jumps several miles outside of her sphere of influence, after Merlin had already snapped her fingers:

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This is an absolutely insane showing of speed for multiple reasons. For one, Merlin's spell activation is incredibly fast. She was able to essentially blitz Vivian and repeatedly teleport her all over Britannia before she could do a thing:

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This same Vivian was able to react to Gilthunder's lightning and teleport it before it could travel ten meters or so:

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Gilthunder's lightning is at least hypersonic by virtue of it traveling from cloud to ground in what appears to be a second:

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Based on this Merlin's teleportation speed should be at least hypersonic, but for the sake of argument I'm going to lowball Merlin's teleportation speed all the way down to plain supersonic.

Jumping several miles away before a supersonic spell can activate is at least a high triple digit mach feat, and Galland was casual here. Several people have reacted to Galland's jumps and he's performed actions while jumping, proving his reactions scale to his jumps.

Here, Galland reaches out to grab Ban's soul while jumping and Melascula is able to track him:

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Splits Tarmiel in half with a downwards swing while in motion:

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And reacts to and catches Tarmiel's Ark blast, after Tarmiel explicitly reacts to Galland lunging at him:

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That's three different examples of Galland performing actions while jumping or reacting to the attacks of someone who's reacted to his jumps, proving without a doubt that Galland's reactions do indeed scale to his combat jumps, which are at least triple digit mach.

Galland's jumps are actually an excellent counter to Ulquiorra's energy projection. Given that Ulq is outclassed in raw physicals, he's going to have to resort to his energy projection to have a chance at beating Galland. However, given that Galland can instantaneously vanish several miles away before supersonic spells can activate I'm confident in stating that he's NOT getting caught in the AOE of any of Ulquiorra's attacks, and that includes Lanza.

Durability/Endurance:

In terms of durability, Galland is impressively durable and there's no doubt in my mind that he'll be able to tank a majority of Ulquiorra's attacks with no difficulty whatsoever.

For starters, Galland no sells a Lostvayne strike directly to the neck by a serious Meliodas:

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And later on, he no sells a barrage of Lostvayne strikes from Demon Mark Meliodas:

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This is very impressive for multiple reasons, one of those reasons being that Meliodas has some seriously potent cutting power, first showcased when he cut a large hill in half from the air pressure of swinging a twig:

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This is base Meliodas's cutting power with a twig. Lostvayne's cutting power scales massively above a twig, seeing as how a Sacred Treasure draws out the Sins full power, explained here by King:

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This isn't just speculative conjecture either, as Lostvayne has direct feats proving it's striking power >>> regular swords, which in turn >>> twigs.

Here, Meliodas casually chops a giant Albion's arm into pieces with Lostvayne:

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This is noteworthy not only due to the Albion's size (Being around hill sized consistently), but also because they're fairly durable themselves. This same Albion previously no sold multiple direct sword strikes from Meliodas:

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So durable was the Albion in fact that Mel's sword shattered on impact, and yet Lostvayne cut through it like butter. The Albion's durability in of itself should be around multi-city block to town level given the fact that Mel's hill cut was performed via air pressure from swinging a twig, whereas the Albion tanked direct sword strikes from him. I can prove multi-city block to town level cutting power is consistent for this tier as well.

Meliodas was able to cut through Red Demon Hendrickson's darkness arm and overpower him:

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The same Red Demon Hendrickson who a chapter earlier was able to casually counter and no sell Dreyfus's sword strikes:

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This is very impressive, seeing as Drefyus was able to casually block Diane's Ground Gladius:

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The same hill sized Ground Gladius that was able to protrude out of the ground with enough speed and power to surprise Helbram and dispel Gilthunder and Howzer's Dragon Castle:

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A hill sized sword protruding out of the ground at even subsonic speeds would generate quite a large amount of kinetic energy, probably around town level at least. Demon Mark Meliodas is canonically >>> his base self, which in turn scales to this level of cutting power based on feats and direct comparisons. Galland no selling over a dozen strikes from that Meliodas should put his piercing durability at multi-town level at least, which is enough to basically no sell all of Ulq's sword strikes.

Moving on from piercing and onto blunt force, Galland was able to tank his own strikes after they were reflected by Merlin's Perfect Cube:

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As shown in the strength section, the air pressure from Galland's casual swings are multi-city block level and Galland tanked two of them with no bodily damage.

Galland was also able to no sell (And i mean no sell) a two armed Gideon strike from a scared and panicking Diane:

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This should be town level+ for reasons shown in the strength section.

Now, when it comes to energy durability, Galland admittedly doesn't have any feats in that category. However, he canonically scales massively above the BOS Sins and Gray Demon Hendrickson, who have great energy durability.

Meliodas was able to withstand consecutive lightning strikes from Gilthunder:

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That last Power Amplified attack in particular was powerful enough to affect the Sins who were standing miles away, and this isn't the end of it either. Not long after this, Meliodas takes a combined elemental attack from Gilthunder, Hendrickson and Vivian:

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Even more impressive, Gray Demon Hendrickson was able to no sell an assault from a group of Holy Knights, an assault that included a giant combined blast from Gilthunder and Guila:

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And finally, Gray Demon Hendrickson was able to survive (As in not get completely vaporized by) Meliodas's Revenge Counter, which had the combined energy of the attacks from the other Sins and most of the relevant Holy Knights in kingdom:

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Now granted, Hendrickson was reduced to a sorry ass state, but it's worth noting that he was completely healed just by drinking some of Dreyfus's blood:

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And all demons, including Galland, have regeneration.

Suffice to say, i think it's damn near impossible for Ulquiorra to harm Galland with physical strikes, and he's going to have to resort to his most powerful energy attacks to threaten Galland in anyway.

Commandment/Demon Powers:

This is going to be short and sweet.

So, Galland's Commandment. As i explained in my "General Information and Powers" section, Galland's Commandment of "Truth" turns anyone who lies before him into stone (Posting scans again for reiteration):

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Now admittedly i don't see this being that large a factor in this battle for obvious reasons, but in the off chance that Ulquiorra lies at some point in this battle the Commandment would surely affect him.

For example, Ulquiorra may something along the lines of "I can cut you in half with a single stroke", or he may call Galland "trash" (Which he's said to people a couple times actually). Both things are blatantly untrue, so Galland's Commandment would kick in and end the fight right there.

Again though, i don't see the Commandment playing a big role here.

Moving on, Galland has the ability to manipulate malleable black matter usually just referred to as "Darkness". With said darkness, Galland can mend wounds and injuries.

As an example of this, Galland is able to reconnect himself after being cut in half by Escanor:

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Darkness can also be used to create physical constructs or weapons. Demons often use this to create wings to fly, as shown here:

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That will be all for this section.

Counters:

First of all, as it's my first time repping a Bleach character let alone against someone like Guiness who has read the manga a dozen times, I might make a few mistakes, so don't be too harsh on me:)

Three times, not a dozen. You good though bro, lol.

First of all, Ulquiorra is particularly adept at Pesquisa (an ability shared by Arrancars by which they can detect the strength of their opponents), using it to determine the spirit levels of everyone in Karakura town and the levels of Ichigo, Orihime and Chad.

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Ulquiorra determining Chad, Orihime and Ichigo's spiritual pressure/fighting ability with a glance

Pay special attention to the second last scan. Ulquiorra reprimands Yammy to himself saying he could have judged Ichigo's fighting ability if his Pesquisa was more developed.

Which means Ulquiorra will immediately know how strong Galan is here and fight accordingly.

Pesquisa is an Arrancar specific that allows them to sense and pinpoint Reiatsu.Galland doesn't have Reiatsu, and you never specified in the stipulations or to me directly that energies were equalized. If they aren't (Which I'm assuming they aren't) then your strategy for Ulquiorra basically going Resurreccion/Segunda Etapa very early on due to sensing how strong Galland is becomes null.

The next thing is, if Ulquiorra has the speed to avoid Galan initially, which fortunately he can, because Ulquiorra's a pretty fast dude.

Let's start with something simple, and then we can build from there.

Blitzes Orihime's bodyguards from several metres away while moving completely FTE to Orihime herself.

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So Ulquiorra moved several metres, blitzed that poor Soul Reaper's arm off, and was back at his initial position, all so fast that Orihime didn't even see him move, let alone react.

Pretty impressive stuff because Orihime as far back as SS arc has shown some damn good reactions, being able to block a grenade explosion point blank.

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Orihime reacts to and defends against a point blank grenade explosion

With a bit of googling, I found that apparently grenade shrapnels are ridiculously fast, and the lowest number I got is nearly Mach 20

Orihime reacted to that point blank while Ulquiorra basically lol blitzed from several metres. Mind you that this Orihime is likely stronger than her SS arc counterpart (post training with Rukia) and Ulquiorra performed this feat casually in base.

Without getting too much into numbers, I'd say this feat alone is probably high mid double digit mach bare minimum.

I don't think this is a legit showing for Ulquiorra's combat speed honestly. For starters, Ulquiorra doesn't actually move there. He's using an Arrancar technique called a Bala, which are basically miniature Cero's that hit with less force but move significantly faster. Here's Yammy's explanation of it:

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According to Yammy, Bala's move approximately 20 times faster than a regular Cero. It's been shown in multiple fights across Bleach (Ichigo vs Grimmjow, Ichigo vs Ulq, Kenny vs Nnoitora, etc..) that Cero's move at relatively the same pace as the one who's firing them. Using that logic, Ulquiorra's Bala's would be 20 times faster than he is, so them "blitzing" Orihime doesn't really equate to his own combat/movement speed. It doesn't help your case when you realize that Ulquiorra has never used them again, making it highly unlikely he'll use it against Galland.

I'd also argue Orihime wasn't operating in the right state of mind in that situation. She was frightened and scared, which comes across quite transparently when looking at the scans and knowing her character.

When Orihime is serious and actually being competent, she often displays really good reaction speed. An example of this actually comes in the next set of scans you posted, when she intercepts Ulquiorra's strike after he's explicitly shown to be serious:

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Wouldn't this actually be a low showing for Bankai Ichigo and Ulquiorra's speed? You yourself calculated Orihime's reaction speed to be around Mach 20 back in the SS Arc, no?

Now yes, Orihime likely improved in speed and skill since then but only by a totally unquantifiable amount. I certainly doubt she improved in speed to the point where she can go from barely having Mach 20 reactions to intercepting supposed high double digit to low triple digit mach fighters like Bankai Ichigo and Ulquiorra, so the whole instance just becomes inconsistent.

All we can say for sure is that she would have Mach 20+ reactions, and that was seemingly enough to intercept a serious Ulquiorra. Not to mention the explosion timing scene is iffy anyway, since Orihime herself implied something bad would have happened if Uryu didn't warn her:

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She was forewarned, meaning it's possible she didn't even need Mach 20 reactions to time the explosion. Nevertheless, Ulquiorra himself never legitimately blitzed Orihime and she was able to react to him perfectly fine.

Next, we have base Ulquiorra moving too fast for Bankai Ichigo to track.

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While he is slightly more serious here, I wouldn't call it his max effort by any means, at best he is just not toying with Ichigo here.

This is impressive because Bankai Ichigo is pretty fast himself.

Back in SS arc, Bankai Ichigo was able to deflect all of Byakuya's petals which attacked him from all sides and were already dangerously close to him.

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Again without going into too much assumptions or calcs, I think we can safely take a few objective minimums:

  • Seeing as even Orihime could react to a point blank near Mach 20 explosion, I think its absurd to think one of Soul Society's top Captains, one renowned for his speed at that, activating his Bankai, can have an attack speed anything less than hypersonic+. Honestly, Byakuya's Bankai should be able to blitz SS arc Orihime, and even in Shikai they were FTE to Renji, another character who should be faster than SS arc Orihime, but let's take a disgusting lowball and say the petals were just hypersonic, that is Mach 5.
  • From the first scan, we can see the petals are incredibly close to Ichigo, can't be more than a few dozen centimeters.
  • Most absurd calcs for this feat assume he sliced his sword dozens of times before any of the petals could reach him, but that's not valid imo because all the petals were not at the same distance from him. So again, let's lowball and say Ichigo moved his sword just once before the closest petals, that is those about a few dozen cm from him, could reach him.

I think all of the above assumptions are more than reasonable and a pretty huge lowball of the feat tbh, still it does give us a bare minimum.

So Ichigo swung his sword around in a full circle (since the petals surrounded him from all sides) before hypersonic petals could cover a few dozen cm.

Again I will leave the exact calcs to the math geeks but just looking at it I am sure you can see why this is easily a high double digit Mach maybe low triple digit for Bankai Ichigo's speed.

Come on Shirso. You and i both know this feat is completely unquantifiable as you basically have to assume every single variable that's needed in order to perform a reasonable calculation.

  • Firstly, you'd have to assume the speed of Byakuya's petals. To my knowledge, Byakuya's petals have no quantifiable speed feats of their own and you'd have to assume their speed based on in tier ranks that have nothing to do with speed. Assuming speed in a speed calculation is literally one of the worse things you can do, as it's unreliable and can lead to erroneous results.
  • Secondly, you'd have to guesstimate the distance. Distance is another extremely important variable when it comes to calculating speed, and yet again it's completely unknown in this instance. You can eyeball the distance if you like, but then you'd also have to admit that it's not going to be 100% accurate.
  • Finally, you'd have to guess how many times Ichigo swung his sword and how many petals he actually deflected. This is the most crucial variable of the feat since it's what actually makes it impressive, and we don't even know that. We know for a fact he didn't deflect all 100,000,000, as he only deflected the attacking ones in front of him. Even if we figured out how many petals he deflected, we still won't have enough to make a calculation since the petals speed is unknown.

This feat is completely inconsistent either way. Kaname was able to blitz Grimmjow and cut off his arm before the latter could react:

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Grimmjow is the same character who outpaced/blitzed Bankai Ichigo in their first meeting, and yet Kaname blitzed him. Why is this inconsistent? Because a blinded, patched SS Arc Kenpachi was able to keep up with him:

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Kaname never underwent any powerups from Soul Society to the Arrancar saga, in fact he was in bandages for the first half because he was still wounded from his fight with Kenpachi.

Now if that's the case, how does Kenpachi keeping up with Kaname make sense when Kaname essentially blitzed Grimmjow, someone who was faster than Bankai Ichigo? We already know that base Shikai Ichigo was able to tie with Kenpachi, and Bankai is massively above that version of Ichigo. So how does any of this make sense?

We also have Byakuya blitz Resurreccion Zommari:

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What makes this weird is that base Zommari explicitly states that he has the fastest Sonido among ALL the Espada (Which would include Grimmjow, Ulquiorra and even Starrk):

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By Zommari's own words he'd be faster than both Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, who were dancing around Bankai Ichigo at certain points. Bankai Ichigo underwent multiple powerups and boosts since Soul Society so i find it very hard to believe that Byakuya, who never underwent any explicit powerups as far as we know, would be able to blitz the fastest Espada when Ichigo, who embarrassed Byakuya just one arc earlier, got outclassed by Ulquiorra.

None of this makes any logical sense. What I'm arguing is that SS Arc Bankai Ichigo blitzing Byakuya the way he did could very well be a one off PIS outlier Kubo did just to hype up Ichigo's Bankai. It makes sense because since then no one has done Byakuya like that, and his portrayal relative to Ichigo and Kenpachi was pretty consistent.

By the way, Byakuya's Shikai never moved FTE to Renji. In fact, Renji casually perceived all 1,000 petals:

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But this is still not base Ulquiorra's limit as he was able to react to even Hollow Ichigo without much issue.

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As we can see, Ulquiorra reacts to and blocks a blitz from Hollow Ichigo, then is able to fire a Cero while Ichigo is charging him, and finally moves fast enough to speed past Hollow Ichigo without the latter being able to react.

You saw how fast even SS arc Bankai Ichigo is, well Hollow Ichigo makes Bankai's speed look like fodder.

A good example of really how fast Hollow Ichigo compared to Bankai is comes in the Hueco Mundo arc itself when Hollow Ichigo effortlessly blitzes and one shots Dordoni, a character who could more or less keep up with Bankai Ichigo.

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Ichigo got stronger after fighting Grimmjow from there, so he is probably even faster by the time he faced Ulquiorra.

And as we saw, even Hollow Ichigo isn't enough to blitz base Ulquiorra and in fact Ulquiorra's movement speed is too fast for Hollow Ichigo to react to. Pretty solid overall.

This would be somewhat impressive if we actually knew how fast Ichigo is. The only speed feat you've posted for Ichigo thus far is the inconsistent and unquantifiable petal feat, which i already went over.

Without knowing how fast Ichigo is, stuff like this doesn't impress me.

That would be it for now, obviously I haven't come to Ulquiorra's best feats yet, but I think I have given a general idea of the level where even base Ulquiorra operates at, and I honestly don't think Galan is fast enough to overwhelm him with speed right off the bat, which is his only chance.

If this is the best you can provide for base Ulquiorra, then Galland is definitely overwhelming him off the bat. He effortlessly blitzes hypersonic+/high hypersonic characters in base and his jumps are legitimately triple digit mach at bare minimum.

When it comes to durability, while Ulquiorra likely can't just no sell Galan's hits, I don't really believe base Galan will be doing much to him either, at best surface wounds if I am being honest.

Base Ulquiorra borderline no sold a point blank Getsuga from Bankai Ichigo and was barely cut.

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Impressive because Shikai Ichigo while fighting Kenpachi back in the SS arc nearly brought down the Senzaikyu, which is a massive prison block, just as the collateral of their clash.

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Shikai Ichigo's cutting power should be at the very least multi building lvl there seeing just the shockwaves of their clash did that kind of damage.

And since you have apparently read Bleach a dozen times or so, I am sure I don't need to tell you just how absurdly above SS arc Shikai Ichigo an Getsuga from Hueco Mundo arc Bankai Ichigo scales in damage output, but if you do want me to prove it by scans, don't feel shy to ask.

Anyway, Ulquiorra took a point blank Getsuga from Bankai Ichigo and was barely cut, while Galan's likely stronger than HM arc Bankai Ichigo, I doubt the difference is so big that he can just one shot Ulquiorra.

And that is if Galan gets to land a point blank hit like Ichigo did there. Which won't be easy at all because Ulquiorra would know to keep his distance from him, and Ulquiorra can fly and is likely faster, so it will be hard for Galan to even tag base Ulquiorra let alone get a direct point blank hit like that on him.

I am aware that Galan also uses shockwaves from his weapon, so to give a similar feat of durability, base Ulquiorra also pretty much no sold a ranged Getsuga from Hollow Ichigo, in fact nearly stopped it with his hands.

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Albeit this was pre Grimmjow fight, still would scale massively above Shikai Ichigo from SS arc, and I have already shown you the enormous boost the Hollow mask gives from Bankai (one shotting a dude who tanked all of Bankai's attacks).

So all in all, I doubt Galan will be able to damage Ulquiorra much while both are in base, that's of he can reliably tag Ulquiorra in the first place, which will be hard given Ulquiorra's ridiculous combat, reactions and even flight/movement speed even in base.

None of these feats are enough to tank hits from Galland, if I'm being honest. Base Galland can level multiple city blocks by effortlessly swinging his arm, wipe out cities while massively nerfed and can create fissures extending to/past the horizon.

If these are the best feats you have, then Galland's probably cutting Ulquiorra in half.

That Galan can't fly doesn't help matters either.

I beg to differ, my friend.

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So now all that remains is how Ulquiorra puts the demon down, which is simple because Ulquiorra can spam immensely destructive energy blasts with absurd AoE.

But first of all, let's talk pure physical strength. Again Galan's likely stronger but I doubt cqc melee is gonna help him much here since Ulquiorra won't engage Galan in that.

Even so, base Ulquiorra has managed to slice Bankai Ichigo's Getsuga post Grimmjow fight.

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And this Bankai Ichigo is actually stronger than Hollow Ichigo from early HM arc, as is confirmed on panel.

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Now all that's left is Ulquiorra's energy projection, which is extremely impressive and is what makes him so dangerous.

Why is this impressive again? Care to show some potency feats for Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho's at this point?

Although, i doubt the potency of Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho's would even come close to multi-town level, which base Galland no sold. You'd need to have city level cuts to damage Galland in any meaningful way, and he has regeneration on top of that.

Once Ulquiorra moves out of melee range for Galan, he will almost certainly go into at least first Resurrecion sooner or later given Galan's strength and blast the crap out of the demon.

That's assuming he makes it to Resurreccion or Segunda Etapa, which i don't think he does. Galland's too physically dominate for Ulquiorra, and he has a much higher chance of dominating Ulq in CQC than Ulq has of retreating to go Resurreccion and then spamming Cero Oscuras's or Lanza's.

So let's see a feat for R1 Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras:

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Blasts away half the roof of Las Noches and heavily injures Hollow Ichigo, breaking his mask in the process.

Now Las Noches is massive, like at the very least large city, probably small island sized if I am being honest.

This is because according to Neliel, a former Arrancar, it takes a 3 day walk to Las Noches' main gate, so at bare minimum that is half Las Noches' perimeter.

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Again a quick google search reveals that normal humans walking at a moderate pace can easily cover more than 90 miles in a day.

Now we need to consider Neliel is basically a spirit who doesn't need to eat or sleep and moves at superhuman speeds and you begin to realize just how massive Las Noches is.

Oh boy, here we go. I've been itching to debunk this ever since the notion of island/small country sized Las Noches invaded the forums.

For starters, you're basing your conclusion on Las Noches's size entirely on a single, unsubstantiated and contradicted statement made by a very questionable source of information. The statement was made by Neliel, who need i remind you had her memories erased from the time when she was an Espada:

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Her mask was broken, her powers were stolen, her memories were erased and her form was reduced to that of a child. This automatically questions the validity of Nel's statement because it's coming from the perspective of a 3 year old (Physically) child walking across sand. We have absolutely zero idea how that translates into a grown up and fit man walking across solid ground, for example.

What makes it worse is that there isn't a single panel one can find of Las Noches being drawn anyone near as large as it's stated to be. These are some of the panels we have of Las Noches:

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Using those skyscraper sized pillars on top of Las Noches as a gauge, I'd say that Las Noches is a couple miles wide. Between 3 - 5, give or take. Nowhere near 90 miles like you mentioned.

A single blast from R1 Ulquiorra not only blew away half of Las Noches but also severely damaged Hollow Ichigo who has pretty impressive durability himself, being able to tank his own Getsuga and all.

Also it goes without saying the AoE of the attack is absurd as well, and Ulquiorra can obviously spam these.

I don't think Galan's even taking one of these to the face tbh, and given the AoE of the attack, he likely isn't dodging either. So this fight becomes a stomp the moment Ulquiorra reaches R1 at least.

Well Galland's casual steps are around 7 - 8 miles and in combat situations he can vanish said distances in timeframes so fast that supersonic spells can't activate in time. Add onto that the fact that Galland can fly and I'm confident in stating he's not getting caught in the AOE of Ulquiorra's attacks.

Conclusion/Why Galland Wins:

The reasons why Galland wins this fight are very simple.

  • Galland is physically superior across the board. He's stronger, faster and more durable. Ulquiorra doesn't have the durability to tank any of Galland's somewhat serious strikes and Galland can basically no sell all of his.
  • Ulquiorra's Pesquisa won't work because it only senses Reiatsu, which Galland doesn't have. Without that, Ulquiorra will have no idea how strong Galland is and he'll most likely opt for CQC, which he'll get dominated in.
  • Ulquiorra's only chance of winning are though his energy attacks in Resurreccion/Segunda Etapa, which Galland can casually outrace given his insane jumping speed feats.

Overall, the demon triumphs over the Arrancar with his superior physicals.

Back to you @shirso

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#29 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8002 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3106 posts) - - Show Bio

Dope.

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#31 Posted by SkySanji (4582 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Edited by YhwachSOLOKING (307 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like both sides are massively lowballing their characters and I find myself disagreeing with a the conclusions made (mostly in speed) but still great posts regardless. Both are well formatted, the arguments are solid and convincing, the scans used greatly support their points and the logic is solid.

t4v.

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#33 Posted by KingGuinness (1882 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Edited by Saxz (159 posts) - - Show Bio
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@kingguinness:

Ulquiorra's Pesquisa won't work because it only senses Reiatsu, which Galland doesn't have.

Pesquisa is the arrancar's equivalent of reikaku (spiritual sense) although pesquisa seems more advanced, Reikaku is a sixth sense which can locate a person's soul.

Ichigo attempted to use reikaku to locate his sisters at BOS, when Ishida threw the hollow bait.

Reikaku/pesquisa should be able to locate Galand's soul,Demons in NNT have souls,however it might not be able to gauge his power levels since Galand's powers doesn't come from his soul, unlike bleach characters.

Over and out

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#35 Posted by Streak619 (7609 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: This is a CaV, a debate specified between two people, Shirso and KingGuinness specifically, you're not allowed to comment your opinion on the battle, please delete that.

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#36 Posted by Aristeaus (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: This is a CaV, a debate specified between two people, Shirso and KingGuinness specifically, you're not allowed to comment your opinion on the battle, please delete that.

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#38 Posted by Saxz (159 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: @streak619:

It wasn't my personal opinion though, and I saw people doing similar things(clarifying misinformation, like Galand not being able to fly) at earlier post...but admittedly rookie mistake .will it be okay of i delete my comments and leave the scans ??

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#39 Posted by Streak619 (7609 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: Those were elementary facts, what you're doing is actually quoting and countering one of his arguments and telling him why you think it's wrong.

It would be appreciated if you could delete it

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#40 Posted by deactivated-5cb3fdda884d4 (141 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for Votes, please and thanks.

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#41 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8002 posts) - - Show Bio

@saxz: Yeah, it would definitely be better if you deleted your whole post, and just didn't interfere in the debate.

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#42 Edited by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness:

Round 2

Behold, the face of true Despair !
Behold, the face of true Despair !

Ready bud? Here we go!

Counters:Strength

D

Galland is a physical powerhouse and he tends to overwhelm and dominate his opponents with his sheer physicality. In terms of physical strength i am 100% confident in saying that Galland surpasses Ulquiorra and basically every Pre-Timeskip Bleach character, with the possible exception of two.

Let's see, you got my attention.

In Galland's first interaction with the Sins, he shows off his impressive strength by wiping out a section of Camelot from the air pressure of a casual swing:

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Visually, the amount of material Galland just wiped out is at least multi-city block level, if not outright town level based on Arthur's statement. This was just the damage caused from the air pressure of Galland nonchalantly swinging his Halberd, and already it's visually/quantifiably superior to most of Ulquiorra's striking feats.

Um we literally see Galland compared to the shockwave he creates and then in the last panel we explicitly see the amount of area he wipes out, and its pretty explicitly about city block level, not multi block, and not even remotely town level.

From this scan, I am doubtful if the length of the area he wiped out is even 100 metres tbh, (the length of a standard city block), let alone "town" level.

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This is backed up by the fact that in the last scan we see buildings completely intact no more than a 100 metres from Galan.

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Those buildings are at besta 100 metres or so from Galan there, and were completely unaffected by Galan's so called "town level" attack.

Then we have the fact that most of the "buildings" he wiped out there were really a cluster of medieval era stone cottages as you can even make out from the last scan, with 1 or 2 medium sized buildings and even then likely nowhere near as durable as modern buildings, and this feat quickly becomes a lot less impressive than what you seem to be implying.

Anyway destroying a city block with just shockwaves isn't impressive at all considering even the residual shockwaves from Shikai Ichigo and Kenny's fight in SS arc did comparable damage.

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All those are skyscraper sized towers and their clash cut through them and even brought many of them down. Then Bankai is said to amp Shikai's ability by ten times so I doubt the gap between Galan and even SS arc Ichigo would be much, if at all.

This is incredibly impressive, due to the fact that Griamore has stated that his Wall can withstand meteor strikes on at least two occasions:

Unfortunately this is purely a statement and I don't recall any feats of Griamore ever stopping someone notable with his ability, in fact his Barrier has been one shotted each time it has been used.

Wikipedia says this about asteroid/meteoroid strikes.

"Stony asteroids with a diameter of 4 meters (13 ft) enter Earth's atmosphere approximately once per year.[19] Asteroids with a diameter of 7 meters enter the atmosphere about every 5 years with as much kinetic energy as the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima (approximately 16 kilotons of TNT), but the air burst is reduced to just 5 kilotons.[19]"

To go along with this, I've snipped the graph that was on the page:

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Going with the objective minimum of a meteor (4 meters), we can see that a meteor of that level would generate 3 kilotons of TNT, which is as powerful as a small town wiping nuke.

Well you read your own chart wrong then. 3 kt is the energy a 4 m asteroid packs when it just enters the atmosphere,hence why its listed under the atmospheric entry column. It decelerates and loses a lot of energy and mass by the time it gets close to the ground, in fact a meteorite that small wouldn't even hit the ground, but regardless, when it "airbursts" close to the ground, its energy is only about 0.75 kt which is like what, multi block at best?

Which is still dubious because even Galan, after getting his strength returned from being sapped by Ban, tests it out by punching the ground and the damage is still about city block lvl+

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Even by your own arguments as well as feats shown, Galan is multi block lvl and he casuallyfodderizes versions of the Sins much stronger than the BoS Sins as well (I mean dude pretty much drop kick deflected a Gideon strike from a more powerful and bloodlusted Diane).

Yet Griamore's barriers are apparently "small town lvl+" when a much weaker version of Diane one shotted it. Do you see the glaring inconsistency here?

This is only their bare bones striking power by the way. Diane's Gideon (A giant 30+ foot tall steel hammer) would obviously amp her striking strength by a large degree, and she has a feat of one shotting a giant chunk of earth with a downwards strike:

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This is not a valid strength showing because Diane is using her Earth magic Mother Catastrophe there which allows her to levitate huge chunks of earth among other things, so not raw strength at all.

With a single downwards strike, Galland creates an enormous fissure across the ground extending past the viewers line of sight:

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This is a good feat undoubtedly but I'd point out here that the attack he uses, One Stroke, is likely his strongest attack in base, as its the same move he used against the Archangel Tamriel.

But as good as the feat is, if we are talking creating large fissures in the ground, Ichigo had a neat one right after activating Shikai.

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Those rock formations are pretty tall as you can see and the fissure is really deep as well,and this was done by an incredibly inexperienced Ichigo just after he activated Shikai. So I don't think Galan's feat there would be much above Bankai, Hollow mask Ichigo by the time he fights Ulquiorra at all.

And, while explicitly having more than half of his physical strength drained from him, wipes out a town/city with his Dismal Scatter Cut technique:

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What's with you calling what are essentially clusters of medieval cottages cities or towns lol?

We explicitly see the level of damage Galan does and he really only destroys maybe a dozen stone cottages, possibly less.

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Honestly I don't even count ten buildings there, not to mention these buildings are all medieval stone cottages in reality.

Hollow Ichigo before fighting Ulquiorra has a much better feat when he no sells 5 of Grimmjow's nail projectiles. Just one of these nails can destroy and bring down a skyscraper sized stone pillar from Las Noches. Not only are these pillars much taller and broader than those tiny cottages Galan busted, but unlike houses which are hollow, they are solid stone pillars.

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That feat's easily better than Scatter Strike.

Based on the feats I've showcased thus far, Galland consistently and almost effortlessly operates at town - city levels of power, which is irrefutably above Ulquiorra.

All of your feats bar one is basically Galan destroying clusters of medieval era cottages which you are trying to pass off as "city/town level" effortlessly at that. The fissure feat with One Stroke is the only one that is debatable but even so I don't think that level of strength is too far above Bankai Hollow Ichigo from Ulquiorra fight considering the kind of feats Ichigo has shown even in SS arc. Not to mention that feat was performed with what's likely Galan's strongest base form attack.

The rest are all city block lvl feats at best honestly, a level SS arc Bleach was easily at.

Counters: Speed

D

Ah, speed. Perhaps the most controversial physical stat and often the hardest to gauge between characters from different verses. Bleach and Seven Deadly Sins in particular are two verses where the speed feats are hard to quantify and the top tier characters speed are mostly just scaling and stacking blitzes on top of blitzes.

Well said.

That was only my original stance however. Upon re-reading SDS i realized there were actually a lot more quantifiable speed feats than i gave it credit for, enough for me to say that Galland is comfortably faster than Ulquiorra.

I am listening

Galland has consistently and effortlessly blitzed the BOS Sins on multiple occasions:

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While Galan is undoubtedly faster than the BoS Sins, I'd say the gap's not incredibly high, as in the Sins can still keep up and even somewhat match Galan in a furious flurry of blows, as we see from one of your own scans.

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As you can see Meliodas is matching Galan blow for blow in a furious flurry of strikes, though he does lose an arm eventually due to Galan being a lot stronger.

So while Galan's faster than people like Meliodas at that point, the gap's not as big as say the gap between Base Ulquiorra and Bankai or even Hollow Ichigo for instance, where he can cover dozens of metres too fast for the Sins to even track.

Btw the last 2 scans is not a "blitz" at all, he literally cheap shotted Ban and sliced him in half from behind lol.

Most of the BOS Sins (Mainly Mel, Diane, Ban and King) all scale to each other in speed based on direct confrontations, and the BOS Sins have supersonic - hypersonic+ speed feats.

Lol dude Mel explicitly going serious just broke the sound barrier against Hendrickson as you yourself posted.

Explicitly break the sound barrier against Gilthunder and Hendrickson:

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So BoS Mel, while serious is supersonic, I don't get where you are getting hypersonic+ based on your own showing of feats.

Meliodas was able to intercept Guila and Full Counter her explosion at point blank range:

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First of all, we have no way of knowing how fast Guila's magic explosions are, so timing them doesn't mean much, let alone compare to even SS arc Orihime.

Secondly, Meliodas isn't even timing the actual explosion in that set of scans, all he is doing is intercepting the trajectory of Guila's attack.

Basically, he isn't timing the explosion itself after it has detonated (in fact we explicitly see Mel smacks it back before the attack detonates), just its trajectory.

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That's not explosion timing, that's the equivalent of intercepting a thrown grenade before it detonates.

In fact we have on panel proof that the BoS Sins cannot react to the explosion itself...

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Ban, who was actually faster than base Meliodas at that point can't react to the explosion.

There are also many instances of both Mel and Diane (who was as fast as Mel at BoS) not being able to react to Guila's explosions at close range.

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2 separate instances of both Mel and Diane failing to react to the explosion after it detonates

If more proof is needed, Guila herself failed to react to her own explosion at close range after it detonated, as we see from your own scans.

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Yet Guila was more than a match for Meliodas in cqc, to the point she could easily keep up with Meliodas in a furious flurry of strikes.

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In fact Guila even kept up with and parried attacks from King's Spirit Spear which was much faster and stronger than Mel, Ban or Diane at Bos.

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Guila is able to evade and parry Chasteifol attacks

So Guila is indeed faster than BoS Mel yet even she couldn't react to her own explosion after it detonated.

In other words, BoS Mel is not even remotely an explosion timer, no more than intercepting and thrown grenade before it detonates is explosion timing.

And consistently time Gilthunder's lightning on multiple occasions:

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Ah, the most inconsistent feat and the most fodder lightning of all time!

Since you yourself used serious Mel breaking the sound barrier as apparently an impressive feat, I won't even bother debunking this "BoS Meliodas is a lightning timer" nonsense.

King casually reacted to Guila's explosion:

Cool. King's better in every aspect to the Meliodas that fought Guila so I don't get your point.

Both feats should be hypersonic+ at least, and Galland blitzed Demon Mark Meliodas. Demon Mark is basically Meliodas's power up, and it increases his stats by a drastic amount.

Just so the readers get an idea of how much Mel's Demon Mark amps him, this is what it allowed him to do to Ban:

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It basically allowed Meliodas to blitz and one shot Ban. The crazy thing is that just prior to this, Ban had almost completely drained Mel of his physical stats using his technique Physical Hunt:

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Meliodas was almost completely robbed of his physical abilities, to the point that he collapsed on the ground because he couldn't even hold himself upright. The Demon Mark was able to completely reverse this situation and amp Mel's strength and speed to the point that he blitzed and one shotted Ban, while reduced to a state of near zero. Ban by his lonesome has stats comparable to Meliodas, and yet even while having his base stats stacked by base Meliodas's stats, he got blitzed and one shotted.

So you are basically trying to compensate for NNT's total lack of legit showings by somehow scaling Demon Mark Meliodas above BoS King, am I right?

I am sorry but that's bullshit, BoS King was matching Guila while she beat the crap out of Mel, Diane and Ban together. The Demon Mark is an amp yes, but BoS King >>>> BoS Mel, so you need more than that to prove Demon Mark Mel is faster than BoS King and his Chasteifol speed.

The funny thing is even if you can prove that, good luck quantifying how fast Guila's magical explosions really are.

Rewinding time a bit back to Galland's first showing of speed, he casually travels from Edinburgh to Camelot in 72 paces:

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Apart from the fact that this is blatantly travel speed, here's the problem with this "feat":

How do you assume a time frame for one of Galan's jumps?

You say this...

To be conservative, we'll go with the low end of 600 miles. Galland crossed that distance in 72 paces, so 600 / 72 = 8.3 miles per step. That's casually Mach 38 for what amounts to basically Galland's walking speed.

That Mach 38 number which you pulled out of thin air implicitly assumes 1 step= 1 second, when that has literally no basis whatsoever. That means he covered the distance in 72 seconds, or just over a minute, which doesn't make any sense when I count nearly 10 pages between Galan leaving and arriving at the Sins' location, the duration in which all the Sins completed multiple conversations, Meliodas had another bout of perving over Eli, Merlin spewed her expositionas usual, etc. There's no way all that happened in just 72 seconds.

Regardless, this is still just travel speed.

Regardless, there's absolutely no way you can put a time frame on this feat, so essentially unquantifiable.

Btw, this isn't Galan's walking speed, unless he has kilometre sized legs. As should be clear to anyone, those "steps" were just jumps he called "steps".

Now, i know what you're thinking. "This is travel speed, not combat speed", and Shirso you're absolutely right. However, Galland has feats of utilizing his travel speed in combat and he's kept up with people who have reacted to his jumps on panel, proving his reactions scale to his travel speed.

That sounds like more bullshit to compensate for the lack of actual feats just by reading it, but let's see.

In this instance, Galland reacts to Merlin's teleportation and instantaneously jumps several miles outside of her sphere of influence, after Merlin had already snapped her fingers:

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Ah, another equally infamous, and equally useless "feat".

First of all, again, jump/travel speed isn't combat, otherwise Saitama and Hulk would be relativistic speedsters.

Secondly, there's something in your own scans which debunks the feat which I will come to in a second...

This is an absolutely insane showing of speed for multiple reasons. For one, Merlin's spell activation is incredibly fast. She was able to essentially blitz Vivian and repeatedly teleport her all over Britannia before she could do a thing:

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Cool. Why is screwing with some fodder impressive again?

This same Vivian was able to react to Gilthunder's lightning and teleport it before it could travel ten meters or so:

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Not only is there literally nothing to prove Gil's lightning is as fast as natural lightning (in fact several anti feats, as even you seem to imply, as you called BoS Sins hypersonic+ and used the "lightning" timing feat in the same post), but that particular attack isn't even his cloud to ground lightning, but simply a blast of lightning from his sword, no different from similar attacks in any other fantasy shonen.

All equally "lightning", all equally worthless.

This proves nothing about Vivian's speed, and by extension Merlin's, who like every other NNT character, seems to depend exclusively on garbage scaling to equally garbage "feats".

Gilthunder's lightning is at least hypersonic by virtue of it traveling from cloud to ground in what appears to be a second:

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Unfortunately this so called "cloud" is formed by Gil's magic ability, and not a natural cloud, so you really can't put a number on how far this "cloud" is above the ground.

In any case the attack Vivian deflected is not cloud to ground lightning and is a different attack altogether, so you can't use this feat to scale her speed.

Based on this Merlin's teleportation speed should be at least hypersonic, but for the sake of argument I'm going to lowball Merlin's teleportation speed all the way down to plain supersonic.

Lol at "lowballing" Merlin's speed to supersonic when you haven't even proven she is sonic speed, in fact serious Mel being supersonic blatantly refutes that.

Jumping several miles away before a supersonic spell can activate is at least a high triple digit mach feat, and Galland was casual here.

Ok, here's the thing, regardless of Merlin's snap speed, the activation time of that spell is clearly NOT supersonic.

Look at this scan from your own post.

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We see Merlin snapping her fingers and Galan jumps away after she does so, as you yourself pointed out.

So, basically, the spell doesn't instantly activate with Merlin's snap as there's quite blatantly a delay (otherwise Galan would have been BFR'd the moment she snapped), or her spell activation time is slower than her snap time.

The nail in the coffin is the fact that from the second panel, its implied that Galan heard Merlin's snap, then decided to jump away out of her radius. In other words, the sound of Merlin's snap reached Galan before the "supersonic" spell could activate, or the spell activation is blatantly subsonic, that too unquantifiably.

In any case I am sure you can understand why high triple digit mach for Galan casually is nonsensical when he took 72 steps to reach Camelot from Edinburgh? If he can jump this fast casually, why didn't he cover that entire distance with one of these "casual" jumps of his?

Here, Galland reaches out to grab Ban's soul while jumping and Melascula is able to track him:

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Galan's already extending his hand before he jumps, I don't see how that shows even reaction let alone combat.

Also funny that just because Galan apparently outpaced a "supersonic" spell in a very tense battle situation, thereafter (or before) every jump Galan has ever done has to be that fast.

Especially when you yourself calc'd his steps to Camelot at Mach 38.

Splits Tarmiel in half with a downwards swing while in motion:

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I don't see any downward swing, just Galan bullrushing with his Halberd held in a straight line. I don't see any distance from where Galan jumped either.

Most of all, I don't see how the heck this is combat speed in any way, shape or form.

But please explain, I am sure you can conjure up some fine mental gymnastics to equate jump to combat speed.

And reacts to and catches Tarmiel's Ark blast, after Tarmiel explicitly reacts to Galland lunging at him:

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>Just because Galan jumped at a certain speed once, all his damn jumps ever are NOT that fast.

>I still don't see from how far Galan jumped, for all we know he might have been trying to bullrush Tarmiel from a mile.

>Still don't see how any of this scales to his combat. This is literally the definition of a bullrush.

Btw, what does Galan reacting to Tarmiel's Ark Blast prove? How fast is this blast supposed to be? Tarmiel reacting to Galan's jump is Tarmiel's reaction speed, I am interested to see how you justify scaling that to one of Tarmiel's blasts

That's three different examples of Galland performing actions while jumping or reacting to the attacks of someone who's reacted to his jumps, proving without a doubt that Galland's reactions do indeed scale to his combat jumps, which are at least triple digit mach.

Wait didn't you call the BoS Sins Galan "blitzed" only hypersonic+, even though as your own scans show, Meliodas could match him in a flurry? So if a hypersonic+ character can match Galan in a furious flurry of blows how does that make Galan triple digit mach anything?

Now you are not only massively overestimating feats, but also not being consistent with your own points.

Galland's jumps are actually an excellent counter to Ulquiorra's energy projection. Given that Ulq is outclassed in raw physicals, he's going to have to resort to his energy projection to have a chance at beating Galland. However, given that Galland can instantaneously vanish several miles away before supersonic spells can activate I'm confident in stating that he's NOT getting caught in the AOE of any of Ulquiorra's attacks, and that includes Lanza.

He can't outpace the AoE of Ulquiorra's Ceros (which are dozens of miles bare minimum) if his best quantifiable feat is crossing like 8.3 miles per step from your opener.

But apart from that, the problem with this strategy is that once Galan jumps,or once he is in the air, the guy is basically a sitting duck to Ulquiorra. He can't maneuver himself mid air or jump off the air like Geppo users from One Piece or Shunpo/Sonido users from Bleach, and his Darkness induced flight doesn't have speed feats to show it can outpace a dozens of miles wide AoE blast.

In a nutshell, Galan jumps, he is getting immediately blasted out of the sky, and there's not a damn thing he can do to change that.

Counters: Durability

D

In terms of durability, Galland is impressively durable and there's no doubt in my mind that he'll be able to tank a majority of Ulquiorra's attacks with no difficulty whatsoever.

Yeah I will just skip the physical section because I don't think Ulquiorra's slashing output will be doing much to Galan.

Now, when it comes to energy durability, Galland admittedly doesn't have any feats in that category. However, he canonically scales massively above the BOS Sins and Gray Demon Hendrickson, who have great energy durability.

That your fancy way of saying Galan is featless against Ulquiorra's level of energy projection? Thought so.

Anyway how does Galan "massively scale above" any of those characters when you yourself said Power Levels do not equate to durability in your opener?

Force - Force is the combatants strength. Force doesn't take into account other physical stats like speed or durability, it is strictly raw, physical strength. Galland's Force is 24,000.

It seems the inconsistency in NNT is even starting to affect its debaters.

Meliodas was able to withstand consecutive lightning strikes from Gilthunder:

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That last Power Amplified attack in particular was powerful enough to affect the Sins who were standing miles away, and this isn't the end of it either. Not long after this, Meliodas takes a combined elemental attack from Gilthunder, Hendrickson and Vivian:

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Even more impressive, Gray Demon Hendrickson was able to no sell an assault from a group of Holy Knights, an assault that included a giant combined blast from Gilthunder and Guila:

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And finally, Gray Demon Hendrickson was able to survive (As in not get completely vaporized by) Meliodas's Revenge Counter, which had the combined energy of the attacks from the other Sins and most of the relevant Holy Knights in kingdom:

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Now granted, Hendrickson was reduced to a sorry ass state, but it's worth noting that he was completely healed just by drinking some of Dreyfus's blood:

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I don't see a single one of those attacks being on even the level of Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras, so yeah Galan still gets one shotted, shitty scaling or not.

Counters: Commandments/Demon Powers

D

This is going to be short and sweet.

Hope so

So, Galland's Commandment. As i explained in my "General Information and Powers" section, Galland's Commandment of "Truth" turns anyone who lies before him into stone (Posting scans again for reiteration):

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Now admittedly i don't see this being that large a factor in this battle for obvious reasons, but in the off chance that Ulquiorra lies at some point in this battle the Commandment would surely affect him.

For example, Ulquiorra may something along the lines of "I can cut you in half with a single stroke", or he may call Galland "trash" (Which he's said to people a couple times actually). Both things are blatantly untrue, so Galland's Commandment would kick in and end the fight right there.

Nah, Escanor does that to a far greater extent than Ulquiorra and he was completely unaffected in Galan's presence. Statements like "You are trash" are completely subjective and can't really be classified as a lie in the first place.

Again though, i don't see the Commandment playing a big role here.

Agreed.

As an example of this, Galland is able to reconnect himself after being cut in half by Escanor:

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Demon regeneration in SDS only heals surface wounds and doesn't actually take away the damage as Meliodas himself explains:

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So it may patch him up temporarily, but the damage dealt will stay there. Not a particularly impressive ability tbh.

Darkness can also be used to create physical constructs or weapons. Demons often use this to create wings to fly, as shown here:

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I don't recall Galan ever using Darkness as physical constructs in battle for versatility. And his Darkness flight has no feats of its flight speed or maneuvaribility that would make it useful against Ulquiorra.

Counters to your Counters

D

Pesquisa is an Arrancar specific that allows them to sense and pinpoint Reiatsu.Galland doesn't have Reiatsu, and you never specified in the stipulations or to me directly that energies were equalized. If they aren't (Which I'm assuming they aren't) then your strategy for Ulquiorra basically going Resurreccion/Segunda Etapa very early on due to sensing how strong Galland is becomes null.

Ugh I will be damned, completely forgot to mention this in the OP lol. Anyway I will roll with it.

All the same, Demons do have souls in SDS, which is what Pesquisa detects, so even if Ulquiorra can't gauge Galan's power level, he should still be able to pinpoint Galan's location. That has to be good enough I guess lol.

As a shower thought, does energies unequalised mean I get to argue Reiatsu crush? In that case Ulquiorra one shots because Galan has no Reiatsu I guess :P

I don't think this is a legit showing for Ulquiorra's combat speed honestly. For starters, Ulquiorra doesn't actually move there.

Why do you say that? In any case, even if it was a Bala, Ulquiorra still raised his arm and fired the attack without Orihime noticing, even though she was looking straight at him, so it's still a good feat of his attack speed if nothing else.

I'd also argue Orihime wasn't operating in the right state of mind in that situation. She was frightened and scared, which comes across quite transparently when looking at the scans and knowing her character.

Orihime is always frightened and scared and concerned for her friends though. Don't think it means much tbh. Ulquiorra still got off an attack while she was looking straight at him without her even perceiving his movements.

When Orihime is serious and actually being competent, she often displays really good reaction speed. An example of this actually comes in the next set of scans you posted, when she intercepts Ulquiorra's strike after he's explicitly shown to be serious:

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The problem here is Orihime didn't really intercept a point blank strike from Ulquiorra, as we see in the first scan, this sequence is basically Ulquiorra chasing Ichigo around over large distances.

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Orihime can activate her abilities with a thought, she would have plenty of time to do so in the 2nd panel (where we see Ichigo roll and get on his feet) and before Ulquiorra appears behind Ichigo. We don't know she put up her shield after Ulquiorra started his attack. She could have just made a general shield around Ichigo the moment he crashed to the ground in the first panel.

Wouldn't this actually be a low showing for Bankai Ichigo and Ulquiorra's speed? You yourself calculated Orihime's reaction speed to be around Mach 20 back in the SS Arc, no?

Don't see why when Orihime blatantly failed to react to Ulquiorra's casual attack speed before.

Now yes, Orihime likely improved in speed and skill since then but only by a totally unquantifiable amount. I certainly doubt she improved in speed to the point where she can go from barely having Mach 20 reactions to intercepting supposed high double digit to low triple digit mach fighters like Bankai Ichigo and Ulquiorra, so the whole instance just becomes inconsistent.

She obviously improved and in Bleach characters improve massively from arc to arc, likely more than any other Shonen, so I don't see the issue.

In any case she didn't really react to Ulquiorra's speed, not in the scans you posted, not anywhere.

ot to mention the explosion timing scene is iffy anyway, since Orihime herself implied something bad would have happened if Uryu didn't warn her:

Come on, Uryu warned her and in the very next panel we see the explosion, the difference that would make is negligible. Uryu even says outright that Orihime "reacted in time". Not to mention thanking others and being modest is kinda Orihime's character in the first place.

Come on Shirso. You and i both know this feat is completely unquantifiable as you basically have to assume every single variable that's needed in order to perform a reasonable calculation.

Wdym? I stated the objective minimums I am taking to quantify the feat, which are perfectly reasonable. You can't disregard a feat just because its harder to quantify.

Firstly, you'd have to assume the speed of Byakuya's petals. To my knowledge, Byakuya's petals have no quantifiable speed feats of their own and you'd have to assume their speed based on in tier ranks that have nothing to do with speed. Assuming speed in a speed calculation is literally one of the worse things you can do, as it's unreliable and can lead to erroneous results.

They blitzed Renji in Bankai and even in Shikai, Renji implied they would be FTE to the human eye. Bankai is a 5-10 times boost.

Then we have Byakuya controlling them with his palms against Bankai Ichigo, which he himself states makes them twice as fast.

Even if we say they are just supersonic in Bankai, the 2x boost ensures the petals Ichigo deflected are at least hypersonic.

Secondly, you'd have to guesstimate the distance. Distance is another extremely important variable when it comes to calculating speed, and yet again it's completely unknown in this instance. You can eyeball the distance if you like, but then you'd also have to admit that it's not going to be 100% accurate.

From the scan, it really can't be more than a few dozen centimeters at best.

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We literally see how close the closest petals are to him compared to the length of his arm, whose length would be less than a metre.

Finally, you'd have to guess how many times Ichigo swung his sword and how many petals he actually deflected. This is the most crucial variable of the feat since it's what actually makes it impressive, and we don't even know that. We know for a fact he didn't deflect all 100,000,000, as he only deflected the attacking ones in front of him. Even if we figured out how many petals he deflected, we still won't have enough to make a calculation since the petals speed is unknown.

I am not guessing anything, I literally said he at least has to swing his sword around in an arc (because the petals surround him in a circle) before the closest petals reach him.

So, 1 swing before the closest petals (which are centimeters away) reach him. That's it and its objectively true since none of the petals touched him at all.

This feat is completely inconsistent either way. Kaname was able to blitz Grimmjow and cut off his arm before the latter could react:

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Another weak attempt at finding non existent inconsistencies. Grimmjow had just had a gruelling fight with Ichigo literally in the previous chapter and you can even see his injuries in your own scans. Grimmjow was not at 100% there.

Not to mention the fact that Grimmjow was not at all expecting someone on his own damn side to suddenly chop off his arm. Kaname took him completely by surprise.

We also have Byakuya blitz Resurreccion Zommari:

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What makes this weird is that base Zommari explicitly states that he has the fastest Sonido among ALL the Espada (Which would include Grimmjow, Ulquiorra and even Starrk):

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Sonido is all travel speed, nothing to do with Zommari's reactions.

By the way, Byakuya's Shikai never moved FTE to Renji. In fact, Renji casually perceived all 1,000 petals:

Yeah sorry I meant they blitzed Renji in Bankai.

This would be somewhat impressive if we actually knew how fast Ichigo is. The only speed feat you've posted for Ichigo thus far is the inconsistent and unquantifiable petal feat, which i already went over.

Without knowing how fast Ichigo is, stuff like this doesn't impress me.

It's neither inconsistent nor unquantifiable , and in fact I took the bare minimum at every step, but its still leagues better than equating jump speed to combat, or trying to pass of Gil's lightning as legit.

Anyway let's see a few more speed feats then to make my previous showings consistent.

The first comes from Ichigo and Grimmjow's first fight, when Grimmjow has his fist on Rukia's face and about to Cero the crap out of her, before the attack gets intercepted by a flying slash from Shinji, without his Hollow Mask, and after we explicitly see Grimmjow has started firing his Cero.

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As you can see, Grimmjoww's fist was literally inches away from Rukia's face and he had already started firing his Cero, yet Shinji's attack (what appears to be a sword slash) from dozens of metres away intercepted it. Even with a disgusting lowball if we say Grimmjow's Ceros are only supersonic (not true since they have easily pressured Ichigo), that attack was dozens of times faster , so easily in the triple digit machs for base Shinji's combat/attack speed.

And in the very same chapter, Grimmjow kept up with in cqc and even reacted to a Cero from a Hollow form Shinji, which should obviously be much faster as we have seen the Hollow mask giving a tremendous boost to stats.

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Grimmjow reacts to a blitz from Hollow Shinji and deflects his Cero with his own

Ulquiorra scales much above Grimmjow as an Ichigo who got much stronger from beating Grimmjow in the HM arc could barely keep up with even base Ulquiorra's speed.

In fact the very next page after the preceding series of scans, Ulquiorra casually intercepts and stops a bloodlusted Grimmjow's sword strike with one arm, with Grimmjow not even perceiving Ulquiorra is there.

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And you know the best part about all this?

That Grimmjow is badly injured and missing an arm when he performed those feats. The Grimmjow that Ichigo fought and beat in the HM arc had his arm restored by Orihime and was in peak condition.

Basically, an injured Grimmjow who was missing an arm kept up with the Hollow form of a guy who performed a near triple digit mach feat of combat/attack speed in base.

Base Ulquiorra casually intercepted and stopped a bloodlusted attack from Grimmjow.

A much stronger form of Ichigo, who had already beaten a peak condition Grimmjow 1v1, could barely react to BaseUlquiorra's speed.

As if all that was not enough to prove triple digit mach is consistent for even Base Ulquiorra, Bankai Ichigo could react to Gin's Bankai multiple times at close range, and at one occasion even charged up to Gin in the time it took fot his Bankai to contract.

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1,2,3) Ichigo reacts to Gin's Bankai at close range multiple times 4) He is even able to evade the attack and charge up to Gin

Even if you don't want to accept Gin's Mach 500 statement, his Bankai still extended over the town pretty much instantly.

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Admittedly this is a stronger version of Ichigo after fighting Ulquiorra but he was still easily keeping up with Gin's Bankai without ever resorting to his Hollow Mask, so I think base Ulquiorra being too fast for even an earlier version of Hollow Ichigo balances things out and just goes to highlight the consistency in Bleach speed.

If this is the best you can provide for base Ulquiorra, then Galland is definitely overwhelming him off the bat. He effortlessly blitzes hypersonic+/high hypersonic characters in base and his jumps are legitimately triple digit mach at bare minimum.

Except you didn't show a single hypersonic feat for BoS Sins, in fact as I have proven BoS Sins except maybe King can't even consistently explosion time, and this is actually consistent because we later see that Meliodas has to legitimately get serious and exert himself to even break the freaking sound barrier.

That's pretty pathetic and the funny thing is you actually used that as a feat in your opener, so you can't even claim it is an outlier, since you clearly don't think so yourself.

So, if BoS Mel has to be serious to just go above sonic speed, pray tell me how the BoS Sins are hypersonic+ or "high hypersonic" in any way, shape or form?

In fact, if I am being honest, by feats shown, SS arc Bankai Ichigo probably blitzes the crap out of the BoS Sins, by virtue of actually having a legit high hypersonic feat, and logically scaling to characters like Orihime.

Galan "effortlessly" blitzing BoS Sins is quite factually wrong as proven by the manga itself as we literally see Mel keeping up in speed and exchanging a flurry of blows with Galan.

So all you have proven is Galan can keep up with supersonic characters, maybe be slightly faster than them, but no more. That's nowhere near enough to even perceive, let alone "blitz" even Base Ulquiorra.

And let's not get started on Galan's jumps and why they don't equate to combat speed. Not that the jumps are anywhere near as first as you claim in the first place...

None of these feats are enough to tank hits from Galland, if I'm being honest. Base Galland can level multiple city blocks by effortlessly swinging his arm,

From feats shown, he never levelled anything more than a city block's worth of area, as I showed even a full power punch from Galan only did about city block lvl damage.

Not to mention all he really did was wipe out a cluster of medieval era stone cottages.

On the other hand, Ichigo fighting Kenpachi in Shikai, way back in SS arc, brought down multiple skyscraper sized stone pillars just from the residual shockwaves of their clashes.

Considering that Bankai is a straight up 5-10 times multiplier, then we have Ichigo's massive growth in general from SS arc to when he fought Ulquiorra, and the fact that his Hollow Mask is another massive boost (to the point he one shots people in Hollow who he can barely scratch in Bankai), I don't see how Galan's sub city block lvl feats would do anything to Ulquiorra at all, when SS arc Shikai Ichigo showed comparable output.

wipe out cities while massively nerfed

If wiping out a dozen stone cottages is city level, then I guess SS arc Shikai Ichigo would qualify to be a mountain buster by your standards?

Funny thing, is Ichigo and Kenny's fight demolished the Eastern Half of the Senzaikyu, which has been referred to as the Prison City, and the spiritual pressure from their fight was being felt miles way.

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and can create fissures extending to/past the horizon.

This is the only half way decent feat for Galan you have shown but:

  • It was done with Galan's likely strongest technique in base. His normal hits are nowhere near that strong.
  • Ichigo also split a small hill and created a reasonably deep fissure when he first activated Shikai. Considering how ridiculously stacked he gets by the time he fights Ulquiorra, I don't think this feat is too much above his paygrade at that point, and by extension Ulquiorra.

If these are the best feats you have, then Galland's probably cutting Ulquiorra in half.

I also showed Hollow Ichigo pretty much no selling 5 of Grimmjow's Nail projectiles, one of which can bust a skyscraper sized stone pillar.

Base Ulquiorra is stronger than that form of Hollow Ichigo so he can easily replicate that as well, and busting a skyscraper sized solid stone pillar >>>>>>>>> wiping out a cluster of medieval stone cottages.

So yeah Galan's normal attacks aren't doing shit, that's if he can tag Ulquiorra in the first place, which given how pathetically slow Galan is, isn't happening anytime soon.

I beg to differ, my friend.

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Ok, and how many times has he used flight in combat or fought against an opponent as fast in the air as Ulquiorra again?

Any feats for Galan's flight to suggest he can keep up with Ulquiorra in the air or dodge around his spammable Ceros?

Why is this impressive again? Care to show some potency feats for Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho's at this point?

Although, i doubt the potency of Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho's would even come close to multi-town level, which base Galland no sold. You'd need to have city level cuts to damage Galland in any meaningful way, and he has regeneration on top of that.

Well Hollow Ichigo at that point (weaker than the Bankai Ichigo that fought Ulquiorra) easily deflected Grimmjow's Gran Ray Cero.

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Gran Ray Cero is implied to be powerful enough to at least heavily damage if not outright destroy Las Noches and also distorted the atmosphere in the vicinity, so its much better than Galan's normally multi building lvl output honestly considering how massive Las Noches is.

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So yeah Ulquiorra in base slicing apart a more powerful Getsuga from Ichigo is pretty impressive. He probably can't bisect Galan or anything (since Galan's cutting durability is pretty good all things said and done) , but I don't think he would be outmatched in strength at all if he were to cross swords with Galan, and may even cause some surface damage.

In any case, melee combat is not how Ulquiorra will damage Galan, he has his energy projection for that.

That's assuming he makes it to Resurreccion or Segunda Etapa, which i don't think he does. Galland's too physically dominate for Ulquiorra, and he has a much higher chance of dominating Ulq in CQC than Ulq has of retreating to go Resurreccion and then spamming Cero Oscuras's or Lanza's.

All his feats bar one shows city block lvl strength at best, probably even less, which is nothing Ulquiorra can't handle. Ulquiorra can easily match city block lvl strength and practically no sell much stronger attacks.

To say nothing of the horrendous speed gap and Ulquiorra's massive advantage in the air (Galan has never used flight in combat and he has no feats of flight speed that I know of). I think Ulquiorra will be fine even if he does engage for a few seconds in cqc.

Btw, Base Ulquiorra is also perfectly capable of spamming absurdly powerful Ceros.

A Cero from Base Ulquiorra is powerful enough to severely injure Hollow Ichigo and break his mask.

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And as we have seen its perfectly ic for Base Ulquiorra to use a large Cero to try and put distance between an opponent he perceives to be physically superior, as he did with Hollow Ichigo.

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So the moment Ulquiorra sees Galan's strength, as the demon will probably start with wildly swinging his Halberd bringing down a number of surrounding buildings in the process, he can use a big ass Cero like the above to put some distance between him and Galan.

Since Galan has zero energy durability feats, he can't no sell or block it like Hollow Ichigo did there and will likely take significant damage giving Ulquiorra a more than enough opening.

Las Noches

D

Oh boy, here we go. I've been itching to debunk this ever since the notion of island/small country sized Las Noches invaded the forums.

For starters, you're basing your conclusion on Las Noches's size entirely on a single, unsubstantiated and contradicted statement made by a very questionable source of information. The statement was made by Neliel, who need i remind you had her memories erased from the time when she was an Espada:

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Her mask was broken, her powers were stolen, her memories were erased and her form was reduced to that of a child. This automatically questions the validity of Nel's statement because it's coming from the perspective of a 3 year old (Physically) child walking across sand. We have absolutely zero idea how that translates into a grown up and fit man walking across solid ground, for example.

The problem with this argument, is that even though Nel does represent a 3 year old outwardly, she is still a Hollow, which means she is still physically superior to any average human being.

Even fodder Hollows from BoS have vastly superhuman feats, and Nel, as weak as she is in that state, still is much above a random fodder Hollow.

For instance, in spite of her form, she is still fast enough to intercept and redirect a Cero from Dordoni who was strong enough to match even Bankai Ichigo.

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As for travel speed which is relevant here, she seems to be able to match Ichigo himself in running speed and even seems to have a basic form of Sonido which helps her accelerate in short bursts, and made her fast enough to kinda "blitz" Ichigo.

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Notice in the third scan Nel pretty much blitzes Ichigo with her Chouka Soku

So say what you will about Nel being weakened, the fact is, she is still vastly above fodder Hollows, who are still vastly above average humans, and the calculation for Las Noches' size was done assuming the moderate pace for average humans.

Then we have the fact that being spirits Nel doesn't need to rest or eat, etc.

An average human can walk over 90 miles at a moderate pace in 24 hours. Even if you halve that, that's still waaay more than the length of even the largest cities in the world.

But Nel is vastly superhuman, regardless of how weak she became compared to her Espada days, so in all likelihood what I stated is probably a lowball. But LAs Noches is small island sized bare minimum.

I mean we have other proof as well, like Ichigo and the others running at full speed towards it and still not seeming to get any closer, etc. But I think proving Nel is a superhuman effectively buries your weak attempt at a lowball.

What makes it worse is that there isn't a single panel one can find of Las Noches being drawn anyone near as large as it's stated to be. These are some of the panels we have of Las Noches:

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Using those skyscraper sized pillars on top of Las Noches as a gauge, I'd say that Las Noches is a couple miles wide. Between 3 - 5, give or take. Nowhere near 90 miles like you mentioned.

None of those are a good perspective shot of Las Noches and in the clearest one:

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You can easily see those skyscraper sized stone pillars, which are themselves probably dozens if not hundreds of metres wide, are still a very miniscule fraction of Las Noches' total diameter.

In any case a certain artistic license is acceptable in such cases. Kubo obviously can't draw everything to scale otherwise he would need to sacrifice a lot of detail.

That's why he has an outright statement from a reliable character as well as stuff like Ichigo and co never being able to get any closer to confirm its size.

Well Galland's casual steps are around 7 - 8 miles and in combat situations he can vanish said distances in timeframes so fast that supersonic spells can't activate in time.

All of which has been debunked soundly. 7-8 miles is nothing compared to Cero Oscuras which has an AoE of like half of Las Noches, that's dozens of miles easy.

Also you seem to forget that once Galan has jumped and is in the air (which as you imply he will be doing a lot of), he can't dodge a Cero.

Add onto that the fact that Galland can fly and I'm confident in stating he's not getting caught in the AOE of Ulquiorra's attacks.

Galan has no flight speed feats and he has never even used flight in a combat situation.

Ulquiorra on the other hand, doesn't just abuse flight in combat, but he is also incredibly fast (too fast for Hollow Ichigo to react to). So yeah, Galan's hopelessly outclassed in the air.

Beyond Base

So far I have just shown mostly Base feats for Ulquiorra and it's clear that Galan can't even match Ulquiorra's weakest form in most areas.

But let's just see a few feats from his Resurrecion and Segunda Etapa forms.

I already showed his Cero Oscuras in R1 being able to shave off half of Las Noches, which already wrecks Galan.

He also receives a tremendous physical boost as well.

First of all, he is able to move too fast from the top of a skyscraper sized pillar for even Hollow Ichigo to track.

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An pretty casual attack from R1 Ulquiorra breaks Ichigo's mask.

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And as Ichigo confirms, R1 Ulquiorra was in fact too fast for Ichigo to handle, even in Hollow form.

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His durability goes up drastically as well, being able to plow right through Hollow Ichigo's Getsuga.

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His final form is Segunda Etapa, which gives him high speed regeneration for starters:

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And of course, the infamous Lanza del Relampago, which creates an explosion that can even dwarf Las Noches.

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I am pretty sure Galan's getting eviscerated by a direct hit from one of those.

And the scary thing is Ulquiorra can spam these.

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If there was any more doubt, I think its clear that Ulquiorra going even R1 makes this an instant stomp.

Why Ulquiorra stomps

1) Galan is barely comparable to base Ulquiorra

I think by this post I have proven that Galan isn't particularly superior to Base Ulquiorra in many areas at all. He may hold a slight strength advantage and the fact that he has the cutting durability to take Ulquiorra's strike but that's it.

He is nowhere near as fast as Ulquiorra in any category, he is hopelessly outmatched in the air, he has no energy durability, and his attacks are nothing base Ulquiorra can't handle.

2) Galan's jumps won't help him here

I have discussed my issues with Galan's jumps and I think there's no reason why even Base Ulquiorra can't react to his bullrushes, which don't even apply to combat speed anyway.

Then my opponent was arguing that his jump speed would save him from Ulquiorra' energy projection, but not only is Ulquiorra's AoE much greater than 8 miles which is the farthest Galan has jumped, but once Galan is in the air, he literally has no way of avoiding a large AoE blast. He can't jump off the air, nor has he any notable flight speed feats, so Galan jumping for a bulrush basically means he is sacrificing all his mobility for a few seconds where he is literally a sitting duck.

All Ulquiorra needs to do is avoid Galan's initial bullrush and then blast the crap out of him once he is free falling, and Galan can't do anything about that. Do this 2-3 times at best and Galan gets wrecked due to having zero energy durability.

3) Galan has ZERO energy durability

Self explanatory I believe. My opponent straight up conceded this and tried to scale to other characters tanking attacks when he himself stated in his opener that Power LEvels have nothing to do with durability.

Not that any of his feats shown in scaling are on Ulquiorra's level anyway.

From feats shown, I have every reason to believe Galan will be severely injured, if not outright one shotted from a casual Cero.

4) Galan can't match Ulquiorra in the air

I feel this is a pretty important factor because Ulquiorra is a primarily aerial combatant. Galan doesn't have the flight speed feats to match Ulquiorra in the air, so he needs to rely on jumps, whose glaring disadvantages I already pointed out.

5) It's incredibly unlikely, if not downright impossible, that Galan's getting an extended cqc bout with Ulquiorra

The reason again is simply because of Ulquiorra's massive AoE energy blasts. I mean if he at any point feels that Galan is too physically imposing, all he needs to do is spam Ceros in Galan's general direction like a mad man and Galan will never get close to him. So Ulquiorra can easily get out of Galan's reach any time he wants.

6) It's a stomp the moment Ulquiorra even goes R1

I don't think this is even debatable at this point. Base Ulquiorra's stats are already more than a match for base Galan, and Galan's only powerup, Critical Over, just allows him to throw a one time very powerful attack.

Ulquiorra can sustain his powerup on the other hand, his stats increase massively all round, as does his energy projection.

Then we have the fact that whatever damage he might take in base would all get healed the moment he powers up, and yeah it's not looking good for Galan.

So to win, basically my opponent needs to prove Galan can overwhelm base Uquiorra at that starting distance, which would be possible only if Galan is not only many many times faster but can also bisect Ulquiorra with a casual blow, both of which he is not capable of.

And he needs to do all of that in the first few seconds

How Ulquiorra wins

Simple really. Galan probably starts with a bullrush jump, which Ulquiorra easily reacts to and then blasts him with a Cero while he is falling. This will significantly injure Galan given his lack of energy durability, which will give Ulquiorra an opening to bombard Galan with more Ceros. Once Galan falls to the ground, Ulquiorra keeps spamming Ceros at an already injured Galan till the demon goes down. Base Uquiorra might legit beat Galan.

Otherwise Ulquiorra sees Galan's strength first hand when he inevitably brings down a few buildings or two with a casual swing, then blasts him away with a Cero (like he did against Hollow Ichigo) to retreat and go into R1 (perfectly ic for him), and the next time he blasts Galan out of the sky with a Cero Oscuras the moment he jumps. And just like in base, he keeps on spamming Cero Oscuras at an injured Galan once he falls to the ground. Galan will be too wounded to effectively dodge or retaliate and he can't outpace its AoE anyway. So all he can do is keep on taking one Cero Oscuras after the other and goes down in a few direct hits.

And of course, he can always go SE and throw a few Lanzas at him once he blasts Galan out of the sky with a Cero, but he really won't need to go that far. Base is already tough enough for Galan as it is, R1 is a stomp, SE is complete overkill and the definition of a mismatch.

Whew that was long. Over to you buddy :)

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#43 Posted by greenroost (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

galan wins, cifer is just not in galan's league

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#45 Posted by ValorKnight (12364 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice post, Shirso. I feel like you both are doing a pretty good job with this debate.

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#46 Posted by vsw (2915 posts) - - Show Bio

Shirso be replying to every post thats not mine.

T4V.

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#47 Posted by FaradaySloth (9229 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice counters.

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#48 Edited by KingGuinness (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebuttals:

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Counters: Strength

Um we literally see Galland compared to the shockwave he creates and then in the last panel we explicitly see the amount of area he wipes out, and its pretty explicitly about city block level, not multi block, and not even remotely town level.

From this scan, I am doubtful if the length of the area he wiped out is even 100 metres tbh, (the length of a standard city block), let alone "town" level.

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This is backed up by the fact that in the last scan we see buildings completely intact no more than a 100 metres from Galan.

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Those buildings are at besta 100 metres or so from Galan there, and were completely unaffected by Galan's so called "town level" attack.

Firstly, we only see Galland in comparison to the shockwaves height (Which is pretty noteworthy since Galland is over 13 feel tall), not it's length. The shockwaves length in comparison to Galland's height is what you'd need to try and debunk the featbut the first scan doesn't give us a good perspective or a proper illustration of that at all.

Secondly, where are you getting that those buildings are at best 100 meters away from Galland? Did you pull out a measuring tape or something? Galland is over 13 feet tall and from our perspective the amount of land he wiped extended almost to the end of the panel. That's certainly over 100 meters and it was only from the air pressure of Galland swinging one arm. The potency of his direct two armed strikes would be dozens of times greater and would rock Ulquiorra into next week.

Anyway destroying a city block with just shockwaves isn't impressive at all considering even the residual shockwaves from Shikai Ichigo and Kenny's fight in SS arc did comparable damage.

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All those are skyscraper sized towers and their clash cut through them and even brought many of them down. Then Bankai is said to amp Shikai's ability by ten times so I doubt the gap between Galan and even SS arc Ichigo would be much, if at all.

The very clear and glaring difference between these two feats is that one is a shared feat between two characters going all out and the other is of one nonchalantly swinging his Halberd for the first time after being released from a 3,000 year long imprisonment. The fact that it's a shared feat automatically halves it's impressiveness, for obvious reasons.

A Bankai is said to increase a Zanpakuto's overall combat ability 5 - 10x over, not 10 specifically. We don't know the multiplier in Ichigo's case or how it applies to his striking strength, and even if we highballed and used the max possible multiplier of 10 it still wouldn't matter for reasons I'll explain a bit further down.

Unfortunately this is purely a statement and I don't recall any feats of Griamore ever stopping someone notable with his ability, in fact his Barrier has been one shotted each time it has been used.

That's ironic coming from the guy who used Neliel's statement as evidence for Las Noches's size.

At least in the case of Griamore's Wall it was stated multiple times and reaffirmed by other characters, whereas the statement regarding Las Noches was a one off that came from a child basically.

Multiple people one shotting the barrier isn't a knock on the barriers durability, it just proves they're really damn strong.

Well you read your own chart wrong then. 3 kt is the energy a 4 m asteroid packs when it just enters the atmosphere,hence why its listed under the atmospheric entry column. It decelerates and loses a lot of energy and mass by the time it gets close to the ground, in fact a meteorite that small wouldn't even hit the ground, but regardless, when it "airbursts" close to the ground, its energy is only about 0.75 kt which is like what, multi block at best?

My bad, you're correct on the atmospheric reentry part.

Regardless, multi-city block busting bare bone punches coming from someone as fodder as BOS Diane is actually fairly impressive, especially by Bleach standards. High tier Captains like Sajin's best feats aren't even at that level consistently and he's portrayed as a physical powerhouse, even Post-Timeskip. Ulquiorra wouldn't physically manhandle (If manhandle at all) someone like Sajin and in fact, he's probably physically weaker. Being physically weaker than Sajin isn't a good thing when going up against someone like Galland, who would physically manhandle Sajin alongside the entire Pre-Timeskip Gotei 13 based on feats and scaling.

Which is still dubious because even Galan, after getting his strength returned from being sapped by Ban, tests it out by punching the ground and the damage is still about city block lvl+

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Even by your own arguments as well as feats shown, Galan is multi block lvl and he casuallyfodderizes versions of the Sins much stronger than the BoS Sins as well (I mean dude pretty much drop kick deflected a Gideon strike from a more powerful and bloodlusted Diane).

Yet Griamore's barriers are apparently "small town lvl+" when a much weaker version of Diane one shotted it. Do you see the glaring inconsistency here?

I see no inconsistencies here. All i see is your pathetic attempt to debunk the BOS Sins/lowball Galland's strength by stating the environmental damage from his test punch (Still trying to wrap my head around why this is possibly an anti-feat) at full power is only city block level+, as if to say Mangaka's (Or any illustrator for that matter) often draw their characters blowing up towns or cities with every punch they throw.

Attack potency is a thing. If we were to judge a characters destructive capacity exclusively by AOE and what we see destroyed on panel (And ignore all other quantifiable DC feats), then top tier Dragon Ball Super characters would be like building level+ in DC since that's all they ever seem to destroy on average. This would only be a legitimate anti-feat if Galland was explicitly serious and it was consistent (As in a serious Galland consistently only outputted city block+ level damage), when that's quite far from the truth. Multiple BOS Sins tier characters have multi-city block to town level feats and Galland is hilariously above all of them based on incredibly rudimentary and one layered scaling (As in, he literally wrecked some of them on panel).

This isn't an inconsistency. It's just a reminder that Mangaka's aren't battle forum nerds like us who obsess over people blowing up cities and mountains.

This is not a valid strength showing because Diane is using her Earth magic Mother Catastrophe there which allows her to levitate huge chunks of earth among other things, so not raw strength at all.

Diane only used her earth magic to levitate the already upchucked pieces of debris in the air, not upchuck them into the air in the first place. The initial debris we saw was all due to her striking strength, so the feat is legit.

This is a good feat undoubtedly but I'd point out here that the attack he uses, One Stroke, is likely his strongest attack in base, as its the same move he used against the Archangel Tamriel.

But as good as the feat is, if we are talking creating large fissures in the ground, Ichigo had a neat one right after activating Shikai.

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Those rock formations are pretty tall as you can see and the fissure is really deep as well,and this was done by an incredibly inexperienced Ichigo just after he activated Shikai. So I don't think Galan's feat there would be much above Bankai, Hollow mask Ichigo by the time he fights Ulquiorra at all.

Are you serious? Are you really comparing Ichigo splitting a building size rock formation with a Getsuga Tenhsho and then passing out to Galland creating a several kilometer long fissure across the ground with air pressure alone? I mean come on. The feats are quite clearly in two completely different stratospheres and your scaling doesn't close the gap even remotely so.

By the way, what does One Stroke potentially being Galland's "strongest attack in base" take away from him? From the looks of things, it seems you're trying to mask the fact that Ulquiorra can't deal with this level of striking power by stating "it's his strongest base attack", as if to say Galland can't throw it out whenever he wants to when he actually can. One Stroke doesn't take much effort on Galland's part and he even had a grin on his face after he used it to split Tarmiel in half:

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Galland also has a technique called "Absolute Helter Skelter", where he just spams a barrage of Halberd strikes in a similar fashion to Luffy's Gatling:

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Given the power of Galland's individual strikes, a spam barrage of them being thrown at incredibly high speeds would realistically output city level power very, very quickly.

So if you thought "One Stroke" was all you had to worry about, you're dead wrong.

What's with you calling what are essentially clusters of medieval cottages cities or towns lol?

We explicitly see the level of damage Galan does and he really only destroys maybe a dozen stone cottages, possibly less.

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Honestly I don't even count ten buildings there, not to mention these buildings are all medieval stone cottages in reality.

Because that's typically what a large area made up of buildings, houses and other various infrastructure housing a large human settlement is usually called. Whether said infrastructure are medieval cottages (Which isn't actually true, seeing as we see multiple towers/tall buildings) or not doesn't change the fact that the entire area would still be classified as a town/city, so i have no idea what you're trying to say with that comment right there.

Moving on, purposefully leaving out scans is a sign of intellectual dishonesty, Shirso. You post that scan but coincidentally leave out one of the scans prior to that which shows a huge mass of buildings spanning to the end of the panel and out of sight:

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I know you've seen this scan as well, seeing as you've read the series and i put it directly into my opener of Galland's Dismal Scatter Strike. Here's my quote proving so:

And, while explicitly having more than half of his physical strength drained from him, wipes out a town/city with his Dismal Scatter Cut technique:

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If you need confirmation for Galland having his strength stolen, here you go:

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Based on the feats I've showcased thus far, Galland consistently and almost effortlessly operates at town - city levels of power, which is irrefutably above Ulquiorra.

So you have indeed SEEN this scan and yet still coincidentally leave it out because it destroys your outrageous argument that Galland only destroyed "10 medieval stone cottages". Textbook intellectual dishonesty right here.

Anyways, as shown in the panel above the area of buildings extended to the end of the panel and out of Galland's sight. That's several hundreds of meters worth of towers/buildings and that's only what's in Galland's direct peripheral. We know the town aslo extends outwards at an equal or greater distance, so in terms of overall area that's several kilometers worth of building material. Galland had more than half his strength absorbed here as well, so at full strong this attack would be drastically stronger.

Hollow Ichigo before fighting Ulquiorra has a much better feat when he no sells 5 of Grimmjow's nail projectiles. Just one of these nails can destroy and bring down a skyscraper sized stone pillar from Las Noches. Not only are these pillars much taller and broader than those tiny cottages Galan busted, but unlike houses which are hollow, they are solid stone pillars.

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That feat's easily better than Scatter Strike.

This feat isn't even comparable to Diane's Ground Gladius, let alone Scatter Strike.

All of your feats bar one is basically Galan destroying clusters of medieval era cottages which you are trying to pass off as "city/town level" effortlessly at that. The fissure feat with One Stroke is the only one that is debatable but even so I don't think that level of strength is too far above Bankai Hollow Ichigo from Ulquiorra fight considering the kind of feats Ichigo has shown even in SS arc. Not to mention that feat was performed with what's likely Galan's strongest base form attack.

The rest are all city block lvl feats at best honestly, a level SS arc Bleach was easily at.

That isn't even remotely true.

For one, I never tried to pass off "all my feats" as town - city level. That's blatantly false and a strawman. The only two feats i passed off as town - city level were One Stroke and Dismal Scatter Strike, and that's because they objectively are. One Stroke created a fissure along the ground potentially spanning to the horizon and Scatter Strike literally wiped out a town on panel, so they're objectively at that level with no scaling or calc stacking at all.

Secondly, this level of strength is indeed far above Ichigo/Ulquiorra and SS Arc (Lel) scaling doesn't help you one bit, because Galland completely blows theirs out of the water.

How can i say this so confidently? Because of Force scaling, gentlemen. BOS Meliodas has a Force level of 960:

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Why is that relevant exactly? Because Galland's Force is 24,000:

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(Note, 26,000 is Galland's Combat Class with his Spirit taken into account, which is 2,000. Galland's base Force is 24,000)

Force is quite literally just a combatants physical strength put into numerical value, so i don't even need to unreasonably powerscale or pull out some random unquantifiable number to put on Galland's strength as it's canonically given to us.

Galland's strength is approximately 25x greater than Meliodas's, the same Meliodas who could cut hills in half by swinging a twig from several meters away:

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So based on explicit and numerical in-verse multipliers (Which you brought up first with Ichigo's Bankai btw) Galland would be able to cut 25 decent sized hills in half by swinging a twig... with one hand... from several meters away.

Let that sink in. 25 decent sized hills may as well translate to a couple of mountains, and you are in no position to complain as you were the one who brought up multipliers and tried to wank Ichigo/Ulquiorra's strength in the first place.

So what's it going to be, Shirso? Would you prefer Ulquiorra to meet his demise at the hands of feats or scaling? No matter what route you pick Galland will always emerge victorious and you won't be able to outrun the cold, hard, truth.

That truth being that Galland violates Ulquiorra and scatters his remains into the wind.

Counters: Speed

While Galan is undoubtedly faster than the BoS Sins, I'd say the gap's not incredibly high, as in the Sins can still keep up and even somewhat match Galan in a furious flurry of blows, as we see from one of your own scans.

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As you can see Meliodas is matching Galan blow for blow in a furious flurry of strikes, though he does lose an arm eventually due to Galan being a lot stronger.

The gap isn't that high even though we have instances of Galland literally vanishing from their sight? That doesn't make sense. When a character moves so fast that they become completely invisible to another characters perceptions, we usually call that a pretty big speed gap, but whatever.

And Galland isn't even focusing his full attention or speed on Meliodas there. He was casually cutting through a whole squad of fodder Holy Knights and Meliodas was just kind of there, like a measly ant in the wind. That's even more impressive honestly, because it shows that Galland can blitz Demon Mark Meliodas without even fully paying attention to him.

So while Galan's faster than people like Meliodas at that point, the gap's not as big as say the gap between Base Ulquiorra and Bankai or even Hollow Ichigo for instance, where he can cover dozens of metres too fast for the Sins to even track.

Galland did just that against Ban actually. Ban was staring directly at Galland and Melascula while they were dozens of meters away:

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Galland crossed that distance and blitzed Ban from behind while moving FTE to him:

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So yes, the gap is very big.

Btw the last 2 scans is not a "blitz" at all, he literally cheap shotted Ban and sliced him in half from behind lol.

Addressed above.

Lol dude Mel explicitly going serious just broke the sound barrier against Hendrickson as you yourself posted.

Yes, and? He's also explicitly timed Gilthunder's lightning more than 5 times. I'm unsure what your point is here or why it's funny.

So BoS Mel, while serious is supersonic, I don't get where you are getting hypersonic+ based on your own showing of feats.

Yes, but how is that an anti-feat for hypersonic+ speed? Breaking the sound barrier is just something that occurs when you surpass the speed of sound, which all hypersonic characters inherently do. Breaking the sound barrier doesn't limit Meliodas's speed to strictly supersonic just because he was serious (Implying there aren't levels of seriousness), especially when he has other feats consistently demonstrating hypersonic+ speed.

First of all, we have no way of knowing how fast Guila's magic explosions are, so timing them doesn't mean much, let alone compare to even SS arc Orihime.

I think at the bare minimum we can assume they're supersonic, since even some of the slowest real life explosions that i could find have detonation velocities of at least hypersonic.

Secondly, Meliodas isn't even timing the actual explosion in that set of scans, all he is doing is intercepting the trajectory of Guila's attack.

Basically, he isn't timing the explosion itself after it has detonated (in fact we explicitly see Mel smacks it back before the attack detonates), just its trajectory.

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That's not explosion timing, that's the equivalent of intercepting a thrown grenade before it detonates.

Mel explicitly Full Counters the explosion while Guila is in mid swing. Look at the scans again:

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I never actually argued this feat as explosion timing either way. Meliodas crossed several meters and Full Countered Guila's attack before she could even complete her swing, which is what i found noteworthy given Guila's own speed.

In fact we have on panel proof that the BoS Sins cannot react to the explosion itself...

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Ban, who was actually faster than base Meliodas at that point can't react to the explosion.

Ban's personality and immortality makes it in character for him to take attacks even if he can dodge them.

Case in point, Ban literally stands there and allows himself to be impaled by Hendrickson's tendril while all the other Sins dodge/counter:

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This isn't the only example i can give either, as Ban has done this multiple times throughout the series. If you require seeing these other examples, i can post them.

Regardless, i don't think this is a legit anti-feat as the early Sins often jobbed and Ban's character.

There are also many instances of both Mel and Diane (who was as fast as Mel at BoS) not being able to react to Guila's explosions at close range.

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2 separate instances of both Mel and Diane failing to react to the explosion after it detonates

If more proof is needed, Guila herself failed to react to her own explosion at close range after it detonated, as we see from your own scans.

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Yet Guila was more than a match for Meliodas in cqc, to the point she could easily keep up with Meliodas in a furious flurry of strikes.

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These would be valid counter arguments if the Sins were actually serious and had their Sacred Treasures, which we know not to be the case.

I mean, Diane was literally gawking at Meliodas the entire fight and faked being seriously hurt to hustle a kiss from him:

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When Diane had her Sacred Treasure and was legitimately serious, she blitzed and one shotted Jericho, a Holy Knight who is nigh equals with Guila:

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Gilthunder even comments on the situation by bringing up King and mentioning how a Sins innate power can only be drawn out by a Sacred Treasure, further substantiating the fact that a Sin with their Sacred Treasure >>> them without their Sacred Treasure.

Moreover, I'm not a fan of you bringing up Guila's showings against a jobbing Meliodas to lowball him. A huge part of Meliodas's characterization is that he holds back massively because he's too strong, Cain even says as much in his conversation with Elizabeth:

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Right before Meliodas performs the hill cutting feat, he comments on the Holy Knights strength and explicitly states "I guess i have to let it go", implying he was withholding his full power (This took place over 20 chapters after the Guila fight you're citing btw):

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And against Dale, Meliodas is continuously shown to hold himself and the other Sins back from killing Dale:

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It wasn't until he accepted Ban and Elizabeth's words that he swallowed his kindness and dispatched of Dale in an instant:

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Even after performing the deed Meliodas has a melancholic look on his face, clearly showcasing that he's not happy with what he just did.

To substantiate this even further, upon killing Dale and equipping Liz's sword Meliodas states "What lies ahead is a battle of life and death!". The panel closes off with a close up of Meliodas's hand on Liz's sword, symbolically portraying Meliodas's resolve to use his actual power and kill if necessary:

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This all lines up perfectly with Cain's statement about Meliodas never using a sword, and the fact that Meliodas's feats become better after this point all but confirms it.

To sum up everything I've just said; Meliodas's kindness and unwillingness to use his full power made him job a lot in the early portions of the series and anyone who looked at the series objectively without a raging hate boner would know this.

In fact Guila even kept up with and parried attacks from King's Spirit Spear which was much faster and stronger than Mel, Ban or Diane at Bos.

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Guila is able to evade and parry Chasteifol attacks

So Guila is indeed faster than BoS Mel yet even she couldn't react to her own explosion after it detonated.

That's canonically not true, seeing as Ban has kept up with and even outpaced King on at least two separate occasions:

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And although Ban is considered faster than Meliodas, Meliodas still has enough speed to keep up with him, even blitzing him at the start of their fight during the Vaizel tournament:

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This all just serves as more evidence for the Sins jobbing and holding back against Guila.

Ah, the most inconsistent feat and the most fodder lightning of all time!

Since you yourself used serious Mel breaking the sound barrier as apparently an impressive feat, I won't even bother debunking this "BoS Meliodas is a lightning timer" nonsense.

I never argued BOS Meliodas was a lightning timer in the traditional battle forums sense (As in natural Mach 286 lightning). I hold Gilthunder's lightning to be hypersonic+ based on consistent feats.

Cool. King's better in every aspect to the Meliodas that fought Guila so I don't get your point.

So King's stronger and more durable than Meliodas? Huh, never knew.

Anyways, the Meliodas that fought Guila is the same Meliodas that fought Red Demon Hendrickson, Gray Demon Hendrickson and the Albion, all opponents who are far above Guila. Meliodas was simply jobbing against Guila, like he did against almost everyone he fought within the first 60 chapters of the series (If not even more).

I can also directly scale Ban to King since he's kept up with/outpaced him on two occasions, and Galland blitzed Ban at FTE speeds from meters away.

So you are basically trying to compensate for NNT's total lack of legit showings by somehow scaling Demon Mark Meliodas above BoS King, am I right?

No, you are completely wrong. I was merely showing you just how massive of a boost Meliodas's first Demon Mark gives him as it's directly relevant to Galland blitzing him, a fact which you seemed to have missed while rage typing your counter to me.

What makes this ironic is that you're doing the exact thing that you wrongfully accused me of. The best feat you've shown for Ulquiorra's speed thus far is him reacting to Hollow Mask Ichigo, which you have then proceeded to try and make more impressive by slapping "Hollow Mask >>> Bankai" on top it. Due to Bleach's lack of overall impressive feats you are constantly stuck referring back to Bankai/Hollow Mask scaling because you literally have nothing else to fall back on, only a wish of how fast you may want Ulquiorra to be.

I can honestly counter your scaling with more scaling of my own, but I'd prefer not too as i don't want this CAV to turn into a prime example of why two individuals shouldn't abuse the hell out of fallible speed scaling. It's not fun and it isn't intuitive.

almost completely drained of his stats.

Apart from the fact that this is blatantly travel speed, here's the problem with this "feat":

How do you assume a time frame for one of Galan's jumps?

You say this...

To be conservative, we'll go with the low end of 600 miles. Galland crossed that distance in 72 paces, so 600 / 72 = 8.3 miles per step. That's casually Mach 38 for what amounts to basically Galland's walking speed.

That Mach 38 number which you pulled out of thin air implicitly assumes 1 step= 1 second, when that has literally no basis whatsoever. That means he covered the distance in 72 seconds, or just over a minute, which doesn't make any sense when I count nearly 10 pages between Galan leaving and arriving at the Sins' location, the duration in which all the Sins completed multiple conversations, Meliodas had another bout of perving over Eli, Merlin spewed her expositionas usual, etc. There's no way all that happened in just 72 seconds.

As an honest debater, i have to take this one on the chin and admit i didn't take all of that into account when quantifying this feat. I assumed a one second timeframe for ease of calculation and i didn't actually take into consideration the copious amounts of dialogue that went on between pages.

For what it's worth, we do see Galland jump from a nearby hill into the middle of Camelot in a what appears to be a very short timeframe:

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This seems to be around a second or two, so i would still call this feat double digit regardless.

Either way, I don't think this actually changes much. The main reason i went out of my way to quantify this feat was to get the distance of Galland's casual paces, as it directly relates to his next jumping feat against Merlin, which is what I'm truly focusing on.

Btw, this isn't Galan's walking speed, unless he has kilometre sized legs. As should be clear to anyone, those "steps" were just jumps he called "steps".

You know what i meant.

"Paces" directly implies walking at a steady pace, which in this context is exactly what happened. It's Galland going on a casual stroll across the country after being imprisoned for 3,000 years and it's not indicative of his max speed or jumping capacity, which you are no doubt implying.

That sounds like more bullshit to compensate for the lack of actual feats just by reading it, but let's see.

It appears as if you have some sort of gripe against Seven Deadly Sins. Is this past traumatic experiences i wonder? If so, I'll attempt to make this as easy on your soul as possible.

Ah, another equally infamous, and equally useless "feat".

First of all, again, jump/travel speed isn't combat, otherwise Saitama and Hulk would be relativistic speedsters.

Secondly, there's something in your own scans which debunks the feat which I will come to in a second...

This is a false equivalency as Saitama and Hulk don't seem to have any feats that prove that their reactions/combat speed scale directly to their jumping speed, while Galland does.

I'm also arguing the application of Galland's jump completely different than what you may be thinking. Galland's jumps will primarily be used to outrace the AOE of Ulquiorra's large scale energy attacks, although they will help him in bulrush blitzes.

Cool. Why is screwing with some fodder impressive again?

Vivian's not exactly fodder. Regardless, the reason i showed this feat is because it shows how insanely quick Merlin's teleportation activation speed is. Merlin's teleportation was so fast that Vivian literally couldn't even snap her fingers in time to teleport herself, as she kept getting lol blitzed before she could do a thing.

Even if we massively lowball Vivian's snapping speed to be on par with mine (A regular human male), it'd be around 0.17 seconds. Merlin's teleportation would logically far eclipse that but for the sake of argument I'll only be arguing her teleportation speed at 0.17 seconds from here on out (As in her teleportation will activate 0.17 seconds after she snaps her fingers).

Not only is there literally nothing to prove Gil's lightning is as fast as natural lightning (in fact several anti feats, as even you seem to imply, as you called BoS Sins hypersonic+ and used the "lightning" timing feat in the same post), but that particular attack isn't even his cloud to ground lightning, but simply a blast of lightning from his sword, no different from similar attacks in any other fantasy shonen.

You're correct in the sense that Gilthunder's lightning isn't as fast as natural lightning and I've never argued it to be. I'm only arguing it at hypersonic+/high hypersonic here, which i think is consistent.

Moving on, why would Gil's lightning coming out of his hand change it's speed? Gil's cloud to ground lightning is created from his magic, as is all of his magical lightning attacks. What makes this more concrete is the fact that this specific technique, "Lightning King Iron Hammer", has been summoned from the clouds as well as his hand:

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That's two examples of it coming from the clouds and one of it coming from his hand, and it's attack speed doesn't appear to visibly change.

Regardless, I've stated I'm only going to be arguing Merlin's teleportation speed at 0.17 seconds from here on out so you should have no complaints.

This proves nothing about Vivian's speed, and by extension Merlin's, who like every other NNT character, seems to depend exclusively on garbage scaling to equally garbage "feats".

Another hint that you seem to have a sort of gripe against Seven Deadly Sins. May i ask what tainted you so, my dear Shirso?

Unfortunately this so called "cloud" is formed by Gil's magic ability, and not a natural cloud, so you really can't put a number on how far this "cloud" is above the ground.

We can take the objective mean of a regular cloud, which is around 2,000 meters.

If that doesn't satisfy you, we can lowball even further and use the lowest possible height of a cloud, which i found to be around 600 meters. Gil's lightning has shown the speed to cross that distance in the same time he can swing his sword a couple meters or so, so it's still hypersonic+ regardless.

In any case the attack Vivian deflected is not cloud to ground lightning and is a different attack altogether, so you can't use this feat to scale her speed.

It's actually the same attack, as shown to you above.

Lol at "lowballing" Merlin's speed to supersonic when you haven't even proven she is sonic speed, in fact serious Mel being supersonic blatantly refutes that.

A serious Mel breaking the sound barrier doesn't refute anything, as you're assuming that's the absolute peak of his speed while simultaneously ignoring other speed feats.

Him being serious doesn't change shit, because you can be serious and still not completely utilize your top speed. That's blatantly shown to be true not only in fiction but in real life as well.

In order for this to be a true anti-feat, you'd have to objectively prove that Mel being serious somehow equates to him using all of his speed. You can't do that, because there's no objective way to prove such a thing. On the other hand, i can safely say that wasn't the limit of Meliodas's speed as he has better speed feats.

Ok, here's the thing, regardless of Merlin's snap speed, the activation time of that spell is clearly NOT supersonic.

Look at this scan from your own post.

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We see Merlin snapping her fingers and Galan jumps away after she does so, as you yourself pointed out.

So, basically, the spell doesn't instantly activate with Merlin's snap as there's quite blatantly a delay (otherwise Galan would have been BFR'd the moment she snapped), or her spell activation time is slower than her snap time.

Or Galland was simply so fast that he fodderised the activation speed of Merlin's teleportation. The whole point of this scene was to hype up Galland and show how overwhelmingly powerful he was compared to the Sins, who at that point were practically the god tiers of the verse.

Even if i agree that there is in fact a delay, it is a ridiculously small one. For example, Vivian was able to teleport Elizabeth away before an explicitly pissed off Meliodas could even cross a couple meters:

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And as shown before, she was able to teleport Gilthunder's Lightning King Iron Hammer before it could cross ten meters or so:

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Based on explicit feats the teleportation delay might as well be nonexistent, so your argument kinda falls apart.

The nail in the coffin is the fact that from the second panel, its implied that Galan heard Merlin's snap, then decided to jump away out of her radius. In other words, the sound of Merlin's snap reached Galan before the "supersonic" spell could activate, or the spell activation is blatantly subsonic, that too unquantifiably.

Feats > your subjective interpretation. Both Vivian and Merlin have teleportation feats that show their activation speed fodderises supersonic speed, so i have no need to debunk this. Even still I'm going to lowball as much as i possibly can so i don't have to hear your whining throughout the remainder of this debate.

8.3 miles / 0.17 = Mach 229, so even lowballing as much as i possibly can Galland is still irrefutably triple digit mach.

In any case I am sure you can understand why high triple digit mach for Galan casually is nonsensical when he took 72 steps to reach Camelot from Edinburgh? If he can jump this fast casually, why didn't he cover that entire distance with one of these "casual" jumps of his?

Because context is a thing. You're acting as if Galland was trying to reach Camelot as fast as he possibly could, when in reality he was going on a casual stroll across the countryside after being imprisoned for 3,000 years. This can be extrapolated from the fact that he explicitly states it took him 72 paces (Paces = steady walking), and he comments on the fact that he's lost his edge:

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Even before he started jumping, he saw the entire situation as a warm up:

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And reaffirms so after leaving the battlefield:

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Not to mention the most glaring difference between the two feats, that being that one was a casual stroll while the other was in a combat situation.

Galan's already extending his hand before he jumps, I don't see how that shows even reaction let alone combat.

The way i saw it was that Galland stuck out his hand while simultaneously jumping.

Also funny that just because Galan apparently outpaced a "supersonic" spell in a very tense battle situation, thereafter (or before) every jump Galan has ever done has to be that fast.

Strawman. I never once said that all of Galland's jumps were as fast as the Merlin one.

However, the Merlin jump does set the standard for Galland's combat jumps against people of a similar or higher tier, because it was casual.

I don't see any downward swing, just Galan bullrushing with his Halberd held in a straight line. I don't see any distance from where Galan jumped either.

I'll post the scans again, since you seem to have problems interpreting them:

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There's very clear motion lines over Galland's hands and his Halberd, which indicates a downwards swinging motion.

Most of all, I don't see how the heck this is combat speed in any way, shape or form.

You don't see how swinging a Halberd in a combat situation is combat speed? Well that's on you.

>Just because Galan jumped at a certain speed once, all his damn jumps ever are NOT that fast.

They are in combat if he's even remotely serious, which he was here.

Tarmiel is one of the Four Archangels and a top tier of the verse. Him and the other Archangels directly challenge the Ten Commandments and just a chapter earlier they slaughtered a whole horde of Galland's demon brethren.

We can for damn sure agree that he was far more serious against Tarmiel than he was against Merlin and the BOS Sins (Who were fodder to him), which was when he accomplished his insane jumping feat.

Btw, what does Galan reacting to Tarmiel's Ark Blast prove? How fast is this blast supposed to be? Tarmiel reacting to Galan's jump is Tarmiel's reaction speed, I am interested to see how you justify scaling that to one of Tarmiel's blasts

It proves Galland's reactions scale to his jumps, because just before Tarmiel intercepted and deflected Galland's jump with an Ark blast.

Wait didn't you call the BoS Sins Galan "blitzed" only hypersonic+, even though as your own scans show, Meliodas could match him in a flurry? So if a hypersonic+ character can match Galan in a furious flurry of blows how does that make Galan triple digit mach anything?

Now you are not only massively overestimating feats, but also not being consistent with your own points.

Except he didn't match him in a flurry, he got freaking destroyed. Meliodas never seriously matched or even registered as anything more than a fly on Galland's radar, and just to solidify this I'll provide one more example showcasing the huge speed gap.

After no selling all of Demon Meliodas's attacks, Galland blitzes him with a Halberd throw:

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This wasn't just a regular Demon Mark Meliodas either. It was the near Darkness consumed Meliodas, a version of which that canonically surpasses his regular Demon Mark form several times over. Galland threw his Halberd so fast that Meliodas didn't even know he was impaled until he was already impaled and was staring directly at the Halberd lodged in his chest. This is irrefutable proof that Galland dwarfs BOS Meliodas in speed and can move FTE to him casually.

Your counter argument involving the nonexistent anti-feat of Meliodas keeping up with him is now debunked and invalid.

He can't outpace the AoE of Ulquiorra's Ceros (which are dozens of miles bare minimum) if his best quantifiable feat is crossing like 8.3 miles per step from your opener.

And what evidence do you have that the AOE of Ulquiorra's Cero's are dozens of miles bare minimum? Regurgitating Neliel's statement won't cut it as every panel we've ever seen of Las Noches shits all over it. Galland's 8.3 mile casual paces will be more than enough to hop over any energy attack Ulquiorra decides to throw Galland's way.

But apart from that, the problem with this strategy is that once Galan jumps,or once he is in the air, the guy is basically a sitting duck to Ulquiorra. He can't maneuver himself mid air or jump off the air like Geppo users from One Piece or Shunpo/Sonido users from Bleach, and his Darkness induced flight doesn't have speed feats to show it can outpace a dozens of miles wide AoE blast.

And why would Galland need to be able to maneuver himself in midair for? Galland isn't going to be engaging in a battle of aerial gymnastics with him, he's simply going to outrace the AOE of Ulquiorra's energy attack by jumping out of the way. Jumping outwards diagonally and close to the ground eliminates the possibility of Ulquiorra catching him off guard midair, and the likelihood of that occurring in the first place is hogwash as Ulquiorra has nowhere near the reaction speed to track Galland's movements.

In a nutshell, Galan jumps, he is getting immediately blasted out of the sky, and there's not a damn thing he can do to change that.

If Galland was to jump straight up into the air and for some reason just hang there waiting for Ulquiorra to throw a Cero at him, then yes there's nothing he can do to change that.

However, drum roll please....

This is a fight where Galland is attempting to cut Ulquiorra's head off. So yeah, he can change that by blitzing Ulquiorra and cutting him in half.

Counters: Durability

Yeah I will just skip the physical section because I don't think Ulquiorra's slashing output will be doing much to Galan.

So you're admitting Ulquiorra has to rely on his energy projection to have a chance at beating Galland? That's a shame then, since Ulquiorra's only relevant energy attacks come in Resurreccion/Segunda Etapa. Ulquiorra is starting in base here, and he'll get slaughtered long before he even has a chance to go into his higher forms.

That your fancy way of saying Galan is featless against Ulquiorra's level of energy projection? Thought so.

No, actually. I was pretty honest and straightforward in saying that Galland doesn't have any objective energy durability feats, but he does have in-verse scaling.

Anyway how does Galan "massively scale above" any of those characters when you yourself said Power Levels do not equate to durability in your opener?

By being part of the Ten Commandments, a group composed of some of the most powerful demon warriors in the verse. Gray Demon Hendrickson was only comparable to a single Albion, the same Albion's which Melascula referred to as "rusty old toys":

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Hell, BOS Mel with Lostvayne soloed an Albion and yet he couldn't do squat to Galland.

This is more of a portrayal thing. I understand if you or others don't find this type of logic convincing (Even though you do use this type of logic for other verses) and i never forwarded this as something concrete or legit, just something that realistically makes sense.

Regardless, Galland's not getting tagged by any energy attacks, so it's fine.

It seems the inconsistency in NNT is even starting to affect its debaters.

I guess the reading comprehension, or lack thereof, has long since affected you Shirso.

You seem to have assumed i was scaling durability based on Combat Classes when i literally never stated or implied that. I have no idea why you're so adamant in pointing out inconsistencies that don't exist, as you've consistently attempted to do so throughout your counter to me and it's gotten to the point that I'm starting to get irritated.

I'll refrain from losing my cool, but in doing so I'd like to forward some advice; Stop assuming my arguments and stop trying to fabricate anti-feats that don't exist.

Please and thank you.

I don't see a single one of those attacks being on even the level of Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras, so yeah Galan still gets one shotted, shitty scaling or not.

I'm not even going to respond to your first couple lines as i feel they're slightly bait-ish, but this is all a moot point as Cero Oscuras will never tag and it's only available to Ulquiorra once entering Resurreccion. He starts the fight here in base, which you seem to keep forgetting as you've brought up Cero Oscuras multiple times without elaborating on how he even gets to Resurreccion without getting slaughtered first.

Counters To Your Counters:

I'm going to skip over your counters to my "Commandment/Demon Powers" section as i don't find them really relevant and i said at the start of this debate that they won't be a large factor here.

Without further ado, let's continue.

Ugh I will be damned, completely forgot to mention this in the OP lol. Anyway I will roll with it.

All the same, Demons do have souls in SDS, which is what Pesquisa detects, so even if Ulquiorra can't gauge Galan's power level, he should still be able to pinpoint Galan's location. That has to be good enough I guess lol.

I don't see why pinpointing Galland's location is going to be particularly relevant here. They're engaging in a morals off battle to the death, not a game of hide and seek. Not to mention you'd still have to equalise energies in order for your argument to be completely sound, as souls in the Bleach universe do not automatically equal souls in the Seven Deadly Sins universe.

As a shower thought, does energies unequalised mean I get to argue Reiatsu crush? In that case Ulquiorra one shots because Galan has no Reiatsu I guess :P

I'd argue that Galland can counter that with his overwhelming aura, like he did when he completely overwhelmed Slader's "Overpower":

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Slader's "Overpower" allows him to temporarily paralyze and intimidate his opponents with his aura:

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"Overpowers" application in combat is actually very similar to Reiatsu crush and Slader has used it to temporarily gain the upper hand on people like Meliodas and Gowther:

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Galland completely overwhelmed this, to the point that Slader compared Galland's aura to that of a mountain.

So i don't think Reiatsu crush is working here.

Why do you say that? In any case, even if it was a Bala, Ulquiorra still raised his arm and fired the attack without Orihime noticing, even though she was looking straight at him, so it's still a good feat of his attack speed if nothing else.

She didn't notice his Bala, but nothing suggests she didn't notice him raising his arm. In fact, we literally see her notice Ulquiorra raising his arm and she calls out "Wait! You want to talk to me, right? Then let's talk":

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The only thing that actually blitzed Orihime was Ulquiorra's Bala's, which we explicitly see in the next panel:

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The energy ring around Ulquiorra's hand all but confirms it was a Bala as well.

As previously explained in my first counter, Bala's move approximately 20 times faster than Cero's, which have consistently been shown to move at comparable speeds to the one's firing them. This would mean that Ulquiorra's Bala's are 20 times faster than he is, and we saw that Orihime was actually able to perceive and intercept his somewhat serious movements.

So this isn't even a feat for Ulquiorra's movement speed. It's the attack speed of an attack he's only used once and it's best feat is blitzing someone with reactions unquantifiably above Mach 18. Mach 18+ speed is laughable to Galland and he'd practically statue it.

Orihime is always frightened and scared and concerned for her friends though. Don't think it means much tbh. Ulquiorra still got off an attack while she was looking straight at him without her even perceiving his movements.

Addressed above.

The problem here is Orihime didn't really intercept a point blank strike from Ulquiorra, as we see in the first scan, this sequence is basically Ulquiorra chasing Ichigo around over large distances.

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Orihime can activate her abilities with a thought, she would have plenty of time to do so in the 2nd panel (where we see Ichigo roll and get on his feet) and before Ulquiorra appears behind Ichigo. We don't know she put up her shield after Ulquiorra started his attack. She could have just made a general shield around Ichigo the moment he crashed to the ground in the first panel.

That isn't even the panel before Orihime intercepted Ulquiorra, this one is:

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We visually see Ulquiorra blitz behind Ichigo and attempt to strike him from behind and we see no barrier of any kind. The barrier only appears in the scan directly after this, when Orihime intercepts his strike:

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What makes this more legitimate is the fact that Ulquiorra is visibly surprised that his strike was blocked, implying he didn't even see the barrier until he already struck it.

This is a pretty big and concrete anti-feat, and it shows that Ulquiorra's own movement speed isn't enough to blitz Orihime's reactions.

Don't see why when Orihime blatantly failed to react to Ulquiorra's casual attack speed before.

Already addressed. It's not Ulquiorra's own movement speed and it's debunked by a later showing.

She obviously improved and in Bleach characters improve massively from arc to arc, likely more than any other Shonen, so I don't see the issue.

The only characters in Bleach that massively improve from arc to arc consistently is Ichigo and Kenpachi, and they have actual plot reasons explaining why that's the case. The other side characters undergo power creeps but nothing like the two i mentioned, wherein they have literally jumped up entire tiers in single arcs.

Orihime's not one of those type of characters. Yes she improved but only by an unquantifiable amount, meaning all we can say for sure is that her reaction speed surpasses Mach 18. That's it.

In any case she didn't really react to Ulquiorra's speed, not in the scans you posted, not anywhere.

I'll just post the scans again then:

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Come on, Uryu warned her and in the very next panel we see the explosion, the difference that would make is negligible. Uryu even says outright that Orihime "reacted in time". Not to mention thanking others and being modest is kinda Orihime's character in the first place.

I'm not disputing that she reacted in time, but what i am saying is that might not have been the case if she wasn't warned beforehand. Being warned in a reaction speed feat is something that can't be ignored, as it takes away (At least partially) from the actual act of "reacting" (Because you know something is coming).

I'll give you the feat anyway, since it's not that impressive.

Wdym? I stated the objective minimums I am taking to quantify the feat, which are perfectly reasonable. You can't disregard a feat just because its harder to quantify.

I can, actually. A feat being harder to quantify inherently makes it less reliable than one that isn't, and the chances of a calc'd value of said feat being wrong improve drastically.

They blitzed Renji in Bankai and even in Shikai, Renji implied they would be FTE to the human eye. Bankai is a 5-10 times boost.

They blitzed Renji in Bankai, but they never blitzed him in Shikai. Renji's FTE statement can be argued as a combination of speed and their tiny size (They're rose petals, after all). Not to mention that being FTE to the human eye isn't particularly impressive.

Then we have Byakuya controlling them with his palms against Bankai Ichigo, which he himself states makes them twice as fast.

Irrelevant unless you can prove to me how fast Byakuya's petals are quantifiably.

Even if we say they are just supersonic in Bankai, the 2x boost ensures the petals Ichigo deflected are at least hypersonic.

So no quantifiable speed feats for Byakuya's petals? Concession accepted.

From the scan, it really can't be more than a few dozen centimeters at best.

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We literally see how close the closest petals are to him compared to the length of his arm, whose length would be less than a metre.

We can't, actually. This panel doesn't give us a good perspective as it's on a slight angle looking upwards at Ichigo, so we can't actually gauge the true distance like we would be able to from a side panel.

I am not guessing anything, I literally said he at least has to swing his sword around in an arc (because the petals surround him in a circle) before the closest petals reach him.

So, 1 swing before the closest petals (which are centimeters away) reach him. That's it and its objectively true since none of the petals touched him at all.

Okay, and what does prove? What does Ichigo swinging his arm in an arc mean? Did he swing his arm once in a complete circular motion? Did he stop halfway and then go in the opposite direction? The fact of the matter is that we simply don't know, and it hampers the feats reliability massively.

Another weak attempt at finding non existent inconsistencies. Grimmjow had just had a gruelling fight with Ichigo literally in the previous chapter and you can even see his injuries in your own scans. Grimmjow was not at 100% there.

You call Grimmjow casually outpacing Ichigo and stomping him into the ground a grueling fight?

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The only damage Grimmjow took was from Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho, and all it did was create a shallow cut across Grimmjow's body:

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Not to mention the obvious fact that having a slight physical injury has absolutely nothing to do with one's reaction speed. Hell, Grimmjow literally saw Kaname grab his sword and prepare to unsheathe it:

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He was literally staring directly at Kaname's hand, and still got blitzed. This is a glaring inconsistency no matter how you spin it, and it's only one of many that plague Bleach.

Not to mention the fact that Grimmjow was not at all expecting someone on his own damn side to suddenly chop off his arm. Kaname took him completely by surprise.

Right, despite the fact that Grimmjow was staring directly at Kaname's sword and heard Kaname shout out to Aizen for permission to execute him while literally standing right next to him:

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Your desperate attempts at damage control are coming through as transparently as a mirror.

Sonido is all travel speed, nothing to do with Zommari's reactions.

Sonido is a movement technique Espada use to both travel and fight at high speeds. It's his combat speed, which he explicitly states is the fastest among all Espada.

It's neither inconsistent nor unquantifiable , and in fact I took the bare minimum at every step, but its still leagues better than equating jump speed to combat, or trying to pass of Gil's lightning as legit.

The fact that literally no one can ever come to an agreement on it's speed proves it's inconsistent and unquantifiable. It's not like Galland's jump or Fujitora's meteorite from One Piece, where we can come to objective and quantifiable minimums. The Byakuya petal relies entirely on calc stacking, which is unreliable.

Also, nice strawman. I'm looking forward to being spammed with those throughout the remainder of this debate.

The first comes from Ichigo and Grimmjow's first fight, when Grimmjow has his fist on Rukia's face and about to Cero the crap out of her, before the attack gets intercepted by a flying slash from Shinji, without his Hollow Mask, and after we explicitly see Grimmjow has started firing his Cero.

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Bleach 236

As you can see, Grimmjoww's fist was literally inches away from Rukia's face and he had already started firing his Cero, yet Shinji's attack (what appears to be a sword slash) from dozens of metres away intercepted it. Even with a disgusting lowball if we say Grimmjow's Ceros are only supersonic (not true since they have easily pressured Ichigo), that attack was dozens of times faster , so easily in the triple digit machs for base Shinji's combat/attack speed.

Firstly, there's no evidence Grimmjow had already fired his Cero. He was charging it up, but nothing suggests he had fired it already, especially since Ichigo is able to scream out Rukia's name and Rukia is able to have a mini panic attack to herself before anything noticeable happens:

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And secondly, this is calc stacking. Seriously, can you do nothing but calc stack? There's these things called objective, quantifiable feats. Perhaps you should find some and use them, because I'm not overwhelmingly excited at the idea of having to put up with and debunk this shit for the rest of this debate.

In fact the very next page after the preceding series of scans, Ulquiorra casually intercepts and stops a bloodlusted Grimmjow's sword strike with one arm, with Grimmjow not even perceiving Ulquiorra is there.

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And you know the best part about all this?

Base healthy Grimmjow also couldn't perceive Kaname when he blitzed behind him:

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The same Kaname who got outpaced by base SS Arc Kenpachi.

Triple digit mach SS Arc base Kenpachi? Yeah, i think not.

As if all that was not enough to prove triple digit mach is consistent for even Base Ulquiorra, Bankai Ichigo could react to Gin's Bankai multiple times at close range, and at one occasion even charged up to Gin in the time it took fot his Bankai to contract.

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1,2,3) Ichigo reacts to Gin's Bankai at close range multiple times 4) He is even able to evade the attack and charge up to Gin

Even if you don't want to accept Gin's Mach 500 statement, his Bankai still extended over the town pretty much instantly.

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Bleach 399

Admittedly this is a stronger version of Ichigo after fighting Ulquiorra but he was still easily keeping up with Gin's Bankai without ever resorting to his Hollow Mask, so I think base Ulquiorra being too fast for even an earlier version of Hollow Ichigo balances things out and just goes to highlight the consistency in Bleach speed.

You just debunked yourself. This is a stronger version of Ichigo, so you can't backwards scale no matter how desperately you may want to. Not to mention the fact that Gin's Bankai speed is completely unknown.

Except you didn't show a single hypersonic feat for BoS Sins, in fact as I have proven BoS Sins except maybe King can't even consistently explosion time, and this is actually consistent because we later see that Meliodas has to legitimately get serious and exert himself to even break the freaking sound barrier.

So i guess you're just going to ignore the multiple scans i posted of Meliodas timing Gilthunder's lightning.

Right on, Shirso. This debate has been riveting so far.

That's pretty pathetic and the funny thing is you actually used that as a feat in your opener, so you can't even claim it is an outlier, since you clearly don't think so yourself.

So, if BoS Mel has to be serious to just go above sonic speed, pray tell me how the BoS Sins are hypersonic+ or "high hypersonic" in any way, shape or form?

Because there are levels of seriousness, dude. Just because Meliodas was serious doesn't mean he was freaking bloodlusted and using 100% of his full speed to massacre Gilthunder and Hendrickson.

And the ratio of hypersonic - supersonic is like 6:1, so based on what the freaking term consistency means, Meliodas would be hypersonic+.

In fact, if I am being honest, by feats shown, SS arc Bankai Ichigo probably blitzes the crap out of the BoS Sins, by virtue of actually having a legit high hypersonic feat, and logically scaling to characters like Orihime.

Right. So Ichigo "logically" scales to Orihime in speed yet you have an issue with me scaling Galland to fodder characters like Gray Demon Hendrickson and BOS Mel? Seems hypocritical if you ask me.

From feats shown, he never levelled anything more than a city block's worth of area, as I showed even a full power punch from Galan only did about city block lvl damage.

Lack of environmental damage isn't a freaking retort. DBZ characters only destroy hills and other small rocky formations with most of their attacks, but is that what we limit their DC to? Of course not.

Hell, i can your own logic against you with your own character. A serious Ulquiorra was only able to cut a small boulder in half and create a small building sized shockwave:

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I guess that means Ulquiorra's serious strikes are only house/small building level.

Stop this stupid argument. It's beneath you.

On the other hand, Ichigo fighting Kenpachi in Shikai, way back in SS arc, brought down multiple skyscraper sized stone pillars just from the residual shockwaves of their clashes.

Considering that Bankai is a straight up 5-10 times multiplier, then we have Ichigo's massive growth in general from SS arc to when he fought Ulquiorra, and the fact that his Hollow Mask is another massive boost (to the point he one shots people in Hollow who he can barely scratch in Bankai), I don't see how Galan's sub city block lvl feats would do anything to Ulquiorra at all, when SS arc Shikai Ichigo showed comparable output.

Already addressed all this.

If wiping out a dozen stone cottages is city level, then I guess SS arc Shikai Ichigo would qualify to be a mountain buster by your standards?

I call wiping out several kilometers worth of houses/buildings town - city level, which is what almost everyone would consider town - city level.

Funny thing, is Ichigo and Kenny's fight demolished the Eastern Half of the Senzaikyu, which has been referred to as the Prison City, and the spiritual pressure from their fight was being felt miles way.

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Okay? We actually saw the destruction and it was city block level, so this statement doesn't matter.

This is the only half way decent feat for Galan you have shown but:

  • It was done with Galan's likely strongest technique in base. His normal hits are nowhere near that strong.
  • Ichigo also split a small hill and created a reasonably deep fissure when he first activated Shikai. Considering how ridiculously stacked he gets by the time he fights Ulquiorra, I don't think this feat is too much above his paygrade at that point, and by extension Ulquiorra.
  • Irrelevant, seeing as Galland can throw it out on a whim.
  • Ridiculously lower level feat. I have no idea why you even brought up, as it's only building level. No amount of calc stacking or weird scaling will close the gap, so just give it up. A strike of this level would cut Ulquiorra in half.

I also showed Hollow Ichigo pretty much no selling 5 of Grimmjow's Nail projectiles, one of which can bust a skyscraper sized stone pillar.

So city block busting? Then Galland one shots him.

Base Ulquiorra is stronger than that form of Hollow Ichigo so he can easily replicate that as well, and busting a skyscraper sized solid stone pillar >>>>>>>>> wiping out a cluster of medieval stone cottages.

So scaling with no objective feats and lowballing? Then Galland one shots him.

So yeah Galan's normal attacks aren't doing shit, that's if he can tag Ulquiorra in the first place, which given how pathetically slow Galan is, isn't happening anytime soon.

Seeing as how Galland is morals off and presumably bloodlusted here, he's going to be throwing out Dismal Scatter Strikes and One Strokes. Each of which would one shot Ulquiorra.

Ok, and how many times has he used flight in combat or fought against an opponent as fast in the air as Ulquiorra again?

And why does that matter? You said Galland doesn't have flight. I corrected you. Simple.

Any feats for Galan's flight to suggest he can keep up with Ulquiorra in the air or dodge around his spammable Ceros?

Galland's 8.3 mile jumps are more than enough and Ulquiorra has never shown the ability to spam Cero Oscuras's, which is his only relevant energy projection (Alongside Lanza).

Well Hollow Ichigo at that point (weaker than the Bankai Ichigo that fought Ulquiorra) easily deflected Grimmjow's Gran Ray Cero.

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Gran Ray Cero is implied to be powerful enough to at least heavily damage if not outright destroy Las Noches and also distorted the atmosphere in the vicinity, so its much better than Galan's normally multi building lvl output honestly considering how massive Las Noches is.

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So yeah Ulquiorra in base slicing apart a more powerful Getsuga from Ichigo is pretty impressive. He probably can't bisect Galan or anything (since Galan's cutting durability is pretty good all things said and done) , but I don't think he would be outmatched in strength at all if he were to cross swords with Galan, and may even cause some surface damage.

In any case, melee combat is not how Ulquiorra will damage Galan, he has his energy projection for that.

Grimmjow's Gran Rey Cero is featless and the statement regarding it being capable of destroying Las Noches was demonstrably proven false as it was used within Las Noches and literally nothing happened. So, not saying much here.

All his feats bar one shows city block lvl strength at best, probably even less, which is nothing Ulquiorra can't handle. Ulquiorra can easily match city block lvl strength and practically no sell much stronger attacks.

Correction. The feats i showcased for him ranged from multi-city block to city level and he has direct strength scaling that places him laughably above anything in Pre-Timeskip Bleach.

To say nothing of the horrendous speed gap and Ulquiorra's massive advantage in the air (Galan has never used flight in combat and he has no feats of flight speed that I know of). I think Ulquiorra will be fine even if he does engage for a few seconds in cqc.

Are you talking about the nonexistent "horrendous" speed gap you thought you proved? Yeah, sorry bud but you didn't prove anything.

I can relax knowing i proved Galland's combat jumps are quantifiably Mach 229, while lowballing as much as possible and making almost no assumptions.

Btw, Base Ulquiorra is also perfectly capable of spamming absurdly powerful Ceros.

A Cero from Base Ulquiorra is powerful enough to severely injure Hollow Ichigo and break his mask.

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And as we have seen its perfectly ic for Base Ulquiorra to use a large Cero to try and put distance between an opponent he perceives to be physically superior, as he did with Hollow Ichigo.

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So the moment Ulquiorra sees Galan's strength, as the demon will probably start with wildly swinging his Halberd bringing down a number of surrounding buildings in the process, he can use a big ass Cero like the above to put some distance between him and Galan.

A distance Galland will cross in milliseconds seeing as he can, you know, vanish miles away before a spell that's been portrayed as almost instantaneous can activate. He can literally cross all of Las Noches in a single bound if he wanted, so no matter where Ulquiorra goes in the battle setting he's going to have a One Strike coming his way.

This strategy is impractical anyway, as you're implying Ulquiorra is going to survive the initial CQC encounter with a bloodlusted Galland which is simply not happening.

Since Galan has zero energy durability feats, he can't no sell or block it like Hollow Ichigo did there and will likely take significant damage giving Ulquiorra a more than enough opening.

Ichigo has literally blocked Cero's before just by holding his sword out. I see no reason why Galland can't do the same with his Halberd, and the least he can do is offset them with the air pressure of his strikes.

Counters: Las Noches

The problem with this argument, is that even though Nel does represent a 3 year old outwardly, she is still a Hollow, which means she is still physically superior to any average human being.

Average by what standards? BOS Chad was able to physically contend with and damage Hollow's, and yet his running speed isn't anything above that of an average human being.

Nel may or may not be physically stronger than any average human, but that doesn't mean her running speed is suddenly better as a result. You'd have to prove that with consistent feats

Even fodder Hollows from BoS have vastly superhuman feats, and Nel, as weak as she is in that state, still is much above a random fodder Hollow.

Hollow's don't have any vastly superhuman running speed feats, so them being vastly superhuman overall doesn't really matter. Not to mention the validity of that statement is questionable, since BOS Chad could overpower one and even Tatsuki could withstand an extended beat down from one. BOS Ichigo as well.

For instance, in spite of her form, she is still fast enough to intercept and redirect a Cero from Dordoni who was strong enough to match even Bankai Ichigo.

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As for travel speed which is relevant here, she seems to be able to match Ichigo himself in running speed and even seems to have a basic form of Sonido which helps her accelerate in short bursts, and made her fast enough to kinda "blitz" Ichigo.

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Notice in the third scan Nel pretty much blitzes Ichigo with her Chouka Soku

So say what you will about Nel being weakened, the fact is, she is still vastly above fodder Hollows, who are still vastly above average humans, and the calculation for Las Noches' size was done assuming the moderate pace for average humans.

The first feat is clearly inconsistent, as Dordoni blitzed Neliel moments later:

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And the second feat is portrayed as a gag feat, which can't be used for obvious reasons.

Other than that, we have an example of Neliel legitimately running and she's portrayed as no more than human speed. In fact, Ichigo literally mistakes her and her Hollow friends as regular humans:

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Needless to say, it's all inconsistent. Neliel is a questionable source of information, her speed is unknown and the statement itself is contradicted by every perspective panel shot of Las Noches ever.

So conclusion? Las Noches isn't even remotely a 90 mile wide structure.

Then we have the fact that being spirits Nel doesn't need to rest or eat, etc.

An average human can walk over 90 miles at a moderate pace in 24 hours. Even if you halve that, that's still waaay more than the length of even the largest cities in the world.

But Nel is vastly superhuman, regardless of how weak she became compared to her Espada days, so in all likelihood what I stated is probably a lowball. But LAs Noches is small island sized bare minimum.

I mean we have other proof as well, like Ichigo and the others running at full speed towards it and still not seeming to get any closer, etc. But I think proving Nel is a superhuman effectively buries your weak attempt at a lowball.

Addressed above.

None of those are a good perspective shot of Las Noches and in the clearest one:

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You can easily see those skyscraper sized stone pillars, which are themselves probably dozens if not hundreds of metres wide, are still a very miniscule fraction of Las Noches' total diameter.

Those pillars aren't hundreds of meters wide. We see Ulquiorra on top of the pillars, and they're only tens of meters wide at most:

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I think you meant to say the pillars are hundreds of meters tall, which i agree with. However, that doesn't make much difference here and it only solidifies my claim about Las Noches being nowhere near 90 miles wide even more, as one hundred meter tall skyscraper sized structures would look like dots on top of a structure that massive.

Comparing the pillars height to Las Noches's width can give us an answer of the structures size, and it only rounds out to be 2 or 3 miles. Cero Oscuras visibly only took up half of Las Noches, so that's a measly one mile. Pathetic.

In any case a certain artistic license is acceptable in such cases. Kubo obviously can't draw everything to scale otherwise he would need to sacrifice a lot of detail.

Artistic license would be acceptable if there was a balance, but there isn't. There is literally no scan depicting Las Noches anywhere near as large as Neliel's statement would imply it to be, so all we can use to determine it's size is manga panels.

And based on explicit manga panels, Las Noches isn't that big.

All of which has been debunked soundly. 7-8 miles is nothing compared to Cero Oscuras which has an AoE of like half of Las Noches, that's dozens of miles easy.

Considering Cero Oscuras's AOE is like a mile or two, Galland will have no problems side stepping them joints and bulrushing Ulquiorra into the ground.

Galan has no flight speed feats and he has never even used flight in a combat situation.

Ulquiorra on the other hand, doesn't just abuse flight in combat, but he is also incredibly fast (too fast for Hollow Ichigo to react to). So yeah, Galan's hopelessly outclassed in the air.

This isn't an aerial battle. Galland will only use his jumps to dodge Ulquiorra's energy attacks, not dawdle in midair and engage in aerial combat with Ulquiorra.

Counters: Beyond Base

So far I have just shown mostly Base feats for Ulquiorra and it's clear that Galan can't even match Ulquiorra's weakest form in most areas.

But let's just see a few feats from his Resurrecion and Segunda Etapa forms.

I already showed his Cero Oscuras in R1 being able to shave off half of Las Noches, which already wrecks Galan.

He also receives a tremendous physical boost as well.

First of all, he is able to move too fast from the top of a skyscraper sized pillar for even Hollow Ichigo to track.

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An pretty casual attack from R1 Ulquiorra breaks Ichigo's mask.

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And as Ichigo confirms, R1 Ulquiorra was in fact too fast for Ichigo to handle, even in Hollow form.

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His durability goes up drastically as well, being able to plow right through Hollow Ichigo's Getsuga.

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His final form is Segunda Etapa, which gives him high speed regeneration for starters:

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This is literally all just scaling. I'm not even going to bother addressing it, because there's nothing to address until you can elaborate on why these feats are actually impressive.

Blitzing Ichigo is whatever until you can reliably prove how fast Ichigo really is, which you can't. I've objectively proven Galland is at least Mach 229, which is quantifiably faster than Ichigo and Ulquiorra by miles, so your scaling doesn't mean squat.

By the way, Ulquiorra's regeneration comes with a big negative, that being that he can't actually regenerate organ damage, and in fact it's what got him killed:

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An attack like Dismal Scatter Cut would obliterate Ulquiorra and puncture multiple holes in his body, inadvertenly destroying his internal orgams, which eill kill him.

And of course, the infamous Lanza del Relampago, which creates an explosion that can even dwarf Las Noches.

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I am pretty sure Galan's getting eviscerated by a direct hit from one of those.

Ah yes, Ulquiorra's infamous Lanza.

Lanza is impressive, and i have no problem in admitting that Galland would not survive a single one of these. However, Lanza suffers from the same problem as Cero Oscuras, the problem being that it's only available to Ulquiorra once entering Segunda Etapa, which in of itself can only be accessed after going Resurreccion.

These transformations take way too much time, as Ulquiorra has to stick his sword out and utter a phrase before he can actually transform:

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Galland won't give him any time, and on top of that Lanza is only dangerous when it detonates upon contact. VL Ichigo was able to dodge Lanza by simply tilting his head slightly:

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Given Galland's own speed, making a slight head tilt will be but child's play.

And the scary thing is Ulquiorra can spam these.

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If there was any more doubt, I think its clear that Ulquiorra going even R1 makes this an instant stomp.

Making an extra one after just firing one off doesn't mean he can literally spam them, like Vegeta can with Ki blasts.

He can make them in quick succession, but spam them is something else entirely.

Why Galland Still Wins:

Without drawing this post out any longer, I'll sum up why Galland still wins and why your counters proved nothing.

  • Galland is still much stronger than Ulquiorra. This is irrefutable, as Galland has Ulquiorra beat in both feats and scaling, so matter what route you take you'll lose.
  • Galland is much faster. He has better quantifiable feats and I've proven that his reactions scale to his combat speed, so Ulquiorra won't be blitzing or landing any attacks on him.
  • Ulquiorra's most powerful energy attacks are only available to him in his higher forms, which take too long to transform into
  • Ulquiorra's AOE will never tag Galland, as his jumps counter that perfectly
  • Ulquiorra's regeneration won't really matter here, as Galland's attacks will destroy his organs

The fight is simply. Blitz + Halberd spam.

@shirso Finally done. Shall we start on that other one now?

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#49 Posted by shirso (4012 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by KingGuinness (1882 posts) - - Show Bio