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#1 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

The God of Sparkles with *Basic* Sparkles

Represented by _KingofLatveria
Represented by _KingofLatveria

The Stretchy Smart Guy Who Can Party

Empowered by Major_Hellstrom
Empowered by Major_Hellstrom

The Rules

  • Basic Knowledge
  • Pre-Reboot Reed
  • In-character
  • MCU Thor, Gladiator Gear+Basic Lightning usage: Lightning Punches and Lightning Cloak
  • Win by KO/Death/Submission

Location

Baseball Field.
Baseball Field.

Voting and CAV Laws

  • Voters must have at least 800 forum posts in order to vote
  • Keep your opinion on who you think wins to yourself
  • Ask to be tagged and you'll be reserved for voting at the end when you the debate is done
  • Enjoy
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#2 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP KoL

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by YouShallNotPass (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

I dunno how Thor is gonna win this with no lightning, t4v

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#6 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@youshallnotpass said:

I dunno how Thor is gonna win this with no lightning, t4v

Honestly, I don't remember a single feat from this guy other than the one where he held the London Eye together briefly lol. So I'll take L if this is spite

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting. T4V

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#9 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Pssh. Reed one shots using Entropy......oh wait wrong Reed.

Also I can get a post up soonish.

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#10 Posted by YouShallNotPass (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Well Ben is definitely stronger and more durable than Thor and Reed overpowered him. He also definitely would be able to take Thors hits. Anyway, Im not gonna go any further, this is yours and majors cav of course.

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#11 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: can we change rules to basic lightning usage. Like the hits he used on Hulk. I'm starting to rethink this ^

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#12 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Ha! One shot me now.

(Yeah I kinda assumed that was part already anyway, except for the one that made Hulk fly into the air).

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by JSDoctor (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't have enough posts to vote yet, but I'd like to read this so I'd appreciate it if you could tag me when voting opens.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag much?

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#16 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Add it submission as a win. Reed can pop up from being flattened so I don't see him getting KO'd (and I don't feel like arguing whether he can or can't cause there is no evidence for or against it).

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Add it submission as a win. Reed can pop up from being flattened so I don't see him getting KO'd (and I don't feel like arguing whether he can or can't cause there is no evidence for or against it).

sure.

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#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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Mister Fantastic

Why am I doing this? Cause I was bored and love Reed, I decided to randomly face Thor since FF characters are consistently underrated. With that out of the way, let's move on to the debate, since Reed has few feats I will just breeze through each section.

Durability

Now for durability, I will concede that Thor is more durable in the classic sense of the word, but in terms of who can take more damage, I think it's either a tie or Reed has the edge. Why? Because Reed has amazing damage soak. For starters when the Thing punched through him by surprise he was unfazed.

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And the Thing's punches are pretty potent. He punches Doom across a room so hard that Doom dents metal and makes a door thing fall.

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He also survived falling from the side of a building despite being super-heated (which is why he lets go) without maintaining any injuries.

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Johnny also survives a fall from a height of around 135 meters (3 story buildings are 13 meters for reference) after switching powers with Reed

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Although the fall hurts Johnny, he isn't harmed and gets back up seconds later.

But most impressively, Reed has popped back up after being completely flattened by the Thing, he walks away completely fine.

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Speed:

I only have one good speed feat for Reed but it's pretty good, so here it is. Here Reed reacts to a blast of electricity from Doom.

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He can also turn into a wheel for greater mobility.

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Strength/Stretching Ability:

This is what's going to win him this match, you see Reed's primary tactic for fighting is immobilizing, something he does very well. He is able to completely incapacitate the Thing in a fight.

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And in terms of being able to break out of a hold, lifting strength matters more than striking and in terms of lifting, I believe Thing has Thor beat.

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As you can see here, Thing (with Sue's help) lifts the London Eye so that Reed using Johnny's powers can wield it. The Lodon Eye weights 2,100 tonnes.

But I won't just scale off Ben, Reed also has other feats...........like he;ping keep the London Eye from collapsing.

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And you can tell that Reed helped a ton cause when Johnny forces Reed to let go by switching powers, you can visibly see the wheel tilt further to collapse.

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Reed also restrains Doctor Doom and casually at that as he is able to keep talking as he restrains Doom.

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A guy who beats Ben in 1v1.

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And lastly, Johnny with the powers of the FF, is able to completely restrain Doom who had the SS' powers.

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How the Battle Goes

So basically Thor has never faced anyone like Reed before while Reed has faced Doom, a guy with the exact same powerset as Thor (electricity and super stats), which means he will play the same trick he used on Doom o Thor, namely entangle him. But this time instead of asking Johnny to go supernova, Reed either simply waits till Thor tires himself out and concedes or suffocates. Either way, Reed's abilities perfectly counter Thor's, Thor's only hope is to take Reed out before he gets restrained but Reed has the speed and damage soak to contend against of sparkles, long enough for him to get close and entangle Thor.

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#19 Posted by DarthRaven (243 posts) - - Show Bio

I’m liking this already.

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#20 Posted by ThunderPrince (7097 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor Odinson, The Lord of Thunder, The God of Sparkles, The Snake Lover

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Thor's Life Story:

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Slowdinson:

Contrary to vine belief, Thor is acct. pretty fast.

During Hulk and Thor's Arena's match, Thor was shown to be clearly superior to Hulk in speed. For reference, Hulk is fast enough to catch an RPG which tend to travel at 670 mph.

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Thor was also fast enough to react to Hela's small blades. Comparing how far they travel when battling Surtur this should be hypersonic at the very least.

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Surtur was at the castle of Asgard and Hela was at around the midway point of the Bifrost Bridge, should be 2km at the very least.
Surtur was at the castle of Asgard and Hela was at around the midway point of the Bifrost Bridge, should be 2km at the very least.

Finally, Thor was able to react to Mind Stone blasts which were which were calced. to be hypersonic during Civil War.

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This is technically a deleted scene but it is just here to show some consistency
This is technically a deleted scene but it is just here to show some consistency

Reed's Speed.

I only have one good speed feat for Reed but it's pretty good, so here it is. Here Reed reacts to a blast of electricity from Doom.

can you quantify this? in your very own post-Reed was tagged by Ben, a slab of rock, and Doom. None of which are casual electricity timers.

Durrabillity:

I think it's either a tie or Reed has the edge.

Now this I doubt, Thing has good striking sure, but I doubt Thor would even be bothered by his hits. Thor while weakened could tank being caved into a mountain by Iron Man.

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and during Hulk and Thor's tussle, Thor was tanking stuff like this.

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added the fact he did tanked all of this in a span of under 7 minutes.

Countering Reed's Stretchiness with Thor's Striking:

He also survived falling from the side of a building despite being super-heated (which is why he lets go) without maintaining any injuries.

Survived? K :)

Johnny also survives a fall from a height of around 135 meters (3 story buildings are 13 meters for reference) after switching powers with Reed

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oh boy, that it? Johhny was definitely not alright afterward.

That face lol
That face lol

I don't plan on really making this a long section. Thor's casual lightning punches were capable of doing this.

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This is what the shockwave of the punch did.

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Concluding Thoughts:

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  • Reed's ability to subdue Thor is kinda irrelevant due to Thor having superior reflexes and a oneshot punch. If Reed can't take at least 2 hits from Thor he is most def. not subduing Thor.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5b3ebf27e5f02 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

We need more oddball cavs like this lol

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#23 Posted by lubub55 (12979 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#24 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

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Getting rekt by a nerd

Speed:

can you quantify this?

I'm not gonna do any calcs if that's what you are asking. But I will show Doom's attacks are pretty instant. Here as soon as he flicks his wrists he blasts away Ben and Johnny, you don't even see the blast travel unless you sow down the GIF.

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Here is another example of him using instant bolts, here he hits Sue across the room with seemingly no latency.

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Compare that to Hela's blades and you can see that Doom's blasts are clearly faster.

Compare this

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to this

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in your very own post-Reed was tagged by Ben, a slab of rock, and Doom. None of which are casual electricity timers.

Ben punches Reed because Reed wasn't expecting Ben to punch him, he actually reacted to the slab of rock and chose to stand behind Ben instead of running like Sue and Johnny, probably cause he though Ben would be able to crush the rock just by standing there like what he did with the truck. I also do not know which instance you are referring to with Doom, but if it is the time he tagged Reed to super heat him, that was because Reed was attempting to flee and was caught off guard.

Durability:

Now this I doubt, Thing has good striking sure, but I doubt Thor would even be bothered by his hits. Thor while weakened could tank being caved into a mountain by Iron Man.

Which are is impressive but we aren't comparing the Thing to these guys, we are comparing damage. In terms of that Reed can be flattened by Sue for a good few seconds and remain unfazed. AKA he is taking more damage relative to his durability and is unfazed, meaning he has better damage soak.

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and during Hulk and Thor's tussle, Thor was tanking stuff like this.

But while Thor was flung across the room each time Reed no sold his attack.

Thor's Striking

Survived? K :)

Unharmed.

oh boy, that it? Johhny was definitely not alright afterward.

Well here he is walking it off right afterward

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Not only that but the nature of Reed's powers is to stretch around attacks, so when he is punched his body just expands his body, rolling with the attack, same as when he gets squished, but falling means your whole body is hit with his once force, and you can't stretch around that.

I don't plan on really making this a long section. Thor's casual lightning punches were capable of doing this.

While that is pretty good on paper, in practice I doubt it will work the way you think.

1. The worse that punch will do is contort Reed's face, which isn't going stop Reed since Reed has been flattened and was fine.

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Remember, this isn't just Reed's durability vs Thor's striking (and you still have to explain why this doesn't just happen), it's also Reed's recovery/damage soak vs Thor's striking. There is no reason why Reed can't recover from that if it connects, yes Thor's attack is more powerful but the harm it will cause will be the same (or maybe even less since Reed is only getting punched by Thor)

2. Thor never starts out using those attacks, against Hela he waited until he lost his eye to use them.

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Compare that to my strategy, engagement, which is the first thing Reed always does.

3. Thor won't get that close. While Thor's reaction speed is equal to Reed's, in order to land this blow he would have to overcome Reed's reaction speed with his combat speed and you haven't shown Thor being that fast in combat. Remember, Reed can react to actual electricity.

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Here is another feat for Reed which is a speed, ability and strength feat all in one. Here he catches the Fatasticar mid flight before Doom crushes it

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That thing is capable of flying from Japan to Venice in presumably a short amount of time

Not only that but how does Thor get a clean hit? Reed is a mid ranged fighter unlike Hulk, and he will only get close when he uses his mobility to get around Thor and instantly wrap him up (as with Doom), where does Reed stand still enough for Thor to land a hit that required Hulk to also be charging at him? No where is the answer.

TLDR: In order for Thor to win he would have to start off with his most powerful attack, tag Reed close up and somehow KO Reed with that attack. Every single aspect of that is iffy at best, as explained above, especially when Reed has the range and mobility advantage.

Conclusion

You didn't counter Reed's entanglement and instead focused on Thor beating Reed before Reed gets the chance, but here's the thing, it takes just 8 seconds for Reed to wrap up Doom.

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That is what will happen here. You can argue Thor being harder to entangle, heck you can say Thor will be 3 times harder, or even 7x harder to entangle, but even if that were the case (which it isn't IMO) Reed would only have to last less than a minute to win, 56 seconds to be exact.

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#25 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@mnm__eminem: I did two other odd ones. I did MCU Iron Man vs Bayformers Ironhide and Doctor Octopus vs Avatar Wan.

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#26 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

Inb4 salt

T4V

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#27 Posted by geekryan (5026 posts) - - Show Bio

omg.

T4V please

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Inb4 salt

-_-

There's only gonna be 2 posts so don't worry, Hellstrom won't be getting salty

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#29 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: You can't say what I will not or will do. I'm my own man now. Step off.

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#30 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: You can't say what I will not or will do. I'm my own man now. Step off.

I'm proud of you son :(. Go and live a happy life with a beautiful woman
I'm proud of you son :(. Go and live a happy life with a beautiful woman

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#31 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#32 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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Counters~

The God of Hammers' Durrabillity:

But while Thor was flung across the room each time Reed no sold his attack.

which attack? you mean the one where Hulk, who's striking feats laughably out class Ben's btw, sent him a further distance and obliterated reinforced steel.

Which are is impressive but we aren't comparing the Thing to these guys, we are comparing damage. In terms of that Reed can be flattened by Sue for a good few seconds and remain unfazed. AKA he is taking more damage relative to his durability and is unfazed, meaning he has better damage soak.

I'll get to this in a moment

Reaction Speed:

I'm not gonna do any calcs if that's what you are asking. But I will show Doom's attacks are pretty instant. Here as soon as he flicks his wrists he blasts away Ben and Johnny, you don't even see the blast travel unless you sow down the GIF.

Thor did kinda the exact same thing though.

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I would even say Thor's is better due to the Destroyer's beam traveling a further distance and Thor having to do it twice in a row.

and Loki's scepter blast did the exact same thing as well and Thor blocked it from a closer distance.

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Ben punches Reed because Reed wasn't expecting Ben to punch him, he actually reacted to the slab of rock and chose to stand behind Ben instead of running like Sue and Johnny, probably cause he though Ben would be able to crush the rock just by standing there like what he did with the truck. I also do not know which instance you are referring to with Doom, but if it is the time he tagged Reed to super heat him, that was because Reed was attempting to flee and was caught off guard.

Dude Reed clearly saw it coming. He's literally following Ben as he moves towards him.

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NLF:

The worse that punch will do is contort Reed's face, which isn't going stop Reed since Reed has been flattened and was fine.

oh boy.

Remember, this isn't just Reed's durability vs Thor's striking (and you still have to explain why this doesn't just happen),

You are seriously comparing The Thing's striking to Thor's? Thor while weakened could send the heavier Iron Man the same distance.

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The worse that punch will do is contort Reed's face, which isn't going stop Reed

surely you jest?

since Reed has been flattened and was fine.

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Keep in mind this same boulder hit Ben first then Reed.
Keep in mind this same boulder hit Ben first then Reed.

also, that boulder did nowhere near the damage of thor's fist.

seriously you're comparing that to this.

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credit to @amcu

Also regarding Susan, she clearly wasn't even putting even half of the effort she was doing to hold up the London Eye. She just wanted to stop Reed in order to have a conversation with her.

TL;DR Thor's lightning punches through Reed since he has no "damage soak" feats that are even comparable to what Thor did.

Thunder Roid Thor:

Thor never starts out using those attacks, against Hela he waited until he lost his eye to use them.

Dude Thor didn't even know how to activate his Godhood, he learned how to control his powers after he got "The God of Hammers" treatment from Ghost Papa Odin.

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So yes Thor will go Thunder Roid Mode and oneshot.

Reed can react to actual electricity.

Real electricity cannot be fired in a controlled manner like that. So no not "actual electricity"

Your Strategy Vs Mine

You didn't counter Reed's entanglement and instead focused on Thor beating Reed before Reed gets the chance, but here's the thing, it takes just 8 seconds for Reed to wrap up Doom.

I didn't counter it because I didn't have 2. To perform this, Reed needs much superior reaction timing than Thor, which he simply does not possess, and the power to at least tank one of his hits which you have not proven he can. Thor could also just catch Reed while he's in his rolly form and throw him. Keeping Reed away is not as hard as you are suggesting. He still has a physical form that can be moved around by another person.

That is what will happen here. You can argue Thor being harder to entangle, heck you can say Thor will be 3 times harder, or even 7x harder to entangle, but even if that were the case (which it isn't IMO) Reed would only have to last less than a minute to win, 56 seconds to be exact.

Huh? Also you forgot Thor's body is covered in lightning if Reed attempts the restraint tactic his body is gonna be rapidly attacked by energy. Not only that Thor's lightning blasts were powerful enough to send Hulk to the other side of the arena casually.

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this is how large Thor is in comparison to the Arena they are fighting in

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Concluding Thoughts

  • Your strategy is a bust, for this to work Reed's reaction speed needs to be a lot better than Thor's which is not the case
  • Thor can oneshot no amount of being flattened can save him from this
  • Thor can fire an energy blast on Reed to oneshot as well.
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#33 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: I haven't read your post, but as agreed two posts each, so yes.

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#35 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2587 posts) - - Show Bio

thunderooooids

t4v

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#37 Posted by geekryan (5026 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll start off by saying that this was an extremely entertaining match-up and debate!

My personal opinion would be that Thor destroys Reed. However, this is about who debated better, and in that respect, I'm going to give a slight edge to @major_hellstrom.

I think Major presented very solid arguments, and he was more effective with his counters. He really convinced me that Reed could entangle Thor and win via incap, and that Reed could tank at least a few blows from Thor.

King, you provided good arguments and counters, but I think Major was more thorough. I wasn't 100% sold on Thor one-shotting Reed and going into God Mode, and I don't think that Reed's reaction speed is the most important factor for why Major's strategy wouldn't work.

This was really close though, and I commend both of you! Great job :)

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#38 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@geekryan said:

I'll start off by saying that this was an extremely entertaining match-up and debate!

My personal opinion would be that Thor destroys Reed. However, this is about who debated better, and in that respect, I'm going to give a slight edge to @major_hellstrom.

I think Major presented very solid arguments, and he was more effective with his counters. He really convinced me that Reed could entangle Thor and win via incap, and that Reed could tank at least a few blows from Thor.

King, you provided good arguments and counters, but I think Major was more thorough. I wasn't 100% sold on Thor one-shotting Reed and going into God Mode, and I don't think that Reed's reaction speed is the most important factor for why Major's strategy wouldn't work.

This was really close though, and I commend both of you! Great job :)

Thanks for voting

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#40 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @_kingoflatveria.Reed's only option for winning involved incapping Thor via wrapping around him, which is directly countered by the fact that Thor will be covering his body with lightning.And while @major_hellstrom did show Reed was strong enough to incap him(since he did so to Thing who has better lifting feats) I was also convinced that Thing by the same token doesn't hit nearly as hard as Thor.With that in mind I see Thor winning this more often then not.

Nice debate btw.

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#41 Posted by APEX_pretador (21286 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not going to vote because I'm biased

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Thanks for voting.

Just a side note though, when he wrapped Doom, Doom was blasting him with electricity so......

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm voting for @_kingoflatveria.Reed's only option for winning involved incapping Thor via wrapping around him, which is directly countered by the fact that Thor will be covering his body with lightning.And while @major_hellstrom did show Reed was strong enough to incap him(since he did so to Thing who has better lifting feats) I was also convinced that Thing by the same token doesn't hit nearly as hard as Thor.With that in mind I see Thor winning this more often then not.

Nice debate btw.

Thanks for voting

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#45 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

MH: 1

KOL: 1

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#46 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: You don't have to quote the vote y'know, I get double tagged. Lel.

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#47 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Thanks for voting.

Just a side note though, when he wrapped Doom, Doom was blasting him with electricity so......

You didn't bring that up in your posts as I recall,although I guess that may be because your opponent brought up the lightning counter in his second post.

Thor's lightning> Dr.Doom's regardless.

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#49 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Yeah, I didn't bring it up cause I couldn't.

Actually not really..........never mind, maybe future CaV.

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#50 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom:

Thor's lightning aura would just pull him off

It was ragdolling the zombie Asgardians during Rganarock and could cause AOE Attacks 2

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