• 69 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

No Caption Provided

Wyldsong representing the undead super zombie himself, Evil Ernie.

No Caption Provided

Myself representing the Astounding Wolf Man.

Composite Ernie. No Telepathy.

Battle during Full Moon.

Death or KO.

In character.

Standard Gear.

Battle here. Start at opposite ends.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#2 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wyldsong
#3 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#4 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

No Caption Provided

Astounding Wolf Man is base in the Invincible universe. He is a a average man bitten by the most powerful Werewolf on the planet. In turn he becomes of the powerful Werewolf bloodline called the Elder Brood. He now leads the Werewolfs on earth as a military commando force for Cecil. He is the Astounding Wolf Man. Astounding Wolf Man power comes from his transformation into a Werewolf at night. During the Full Moon he is at his most powerful. currently he retains he retains his senses and personality whether a normal night or full moon. As a Elder brood he carries the powers of Super Strength, Speed, Durability, and Healing. His costume also stores Moonlight to allow 2 hours of fighting in the day. He now acts as the leading member of the Wolf Corps which is a sub branch of heroes under the Guardians of the Globe.

As a werewolf, he has the typical attributes one would think. great Super Strength, but not in the meager terms Hollywood film place it, but in terms that his strength contends with low mid tier comic characters. His speed is tend to be above peak human, by virtue of the speedy foes he has face and overcome. His durability, as is the werewolf trademark is insane high. Talking clear mid tier level high. His unique healing ability add to this more so. Most of my argument will be focus why Wolf Man will simply shrug off attacks and keep coming. As a werewolf he also had the super senses of hearing, sight, and smell. More important, he has the claws that are so sharp and durable that they cut through beings with atom level durability. To top all this off, he has some good training in fighting, and decent skill.

All in all, he is a beast. Pun intended. I am not too clear on Ernie, I briefly ran into a argument on him once, but dont remember much. So balls in your court.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#5 Posted by GhostRavage (14944 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: You're going to lose. If you were CadenceV2 then you would stand a chance, but you're too new for this.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#6 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Should be fun, a little Halloween themed CaV in the summer season! I am going to start with a little theme music for everyone to listen to as they read this opener...

Loading Video...

Evil Ernie (Earnest Fairchild):

No Caption Provided

As a child, Earnest had telepathic abilities, and also showed the ability to affect reality through his drawings. He was abused by his parents, the neighborhood was aware of it and chose to ignore it, and after some behavorial therapy, Ernie kills his parents and 35 other people. He is caught, placed in an asylum, and when a treatment was performed using a device called Neurotech in an attempt to cure his insanity, Lady Death (who had previously visited Ernie in his dreams), imbued him with her arcane energy, thus creating the terror of Evil Ernie. Ernie's mission was to bring about the death of all life on Earth so that his love, Lady Death, could return to the planet (she was cursed by Lucifer).

Now, the Dynamite version had a slightly different history, but since most of my feats will be from the original version, I'll stick with that one for the main history, though it does bear noting that the current incarnation of Ernie is more of an anti hero than villain. Needless to say, Ernie had a wild ride, and had the country on its knees, and nearly succeeded in his goal before finally being taken down. So, let's discuss about just what it is that makes Ernie a threat here...seriously though, this guy had the country in ruins and nearly succeeded in his goal to bring about his world ending, apocalyptic "Megadeath"...

No Caption Provided

The Physicals:

So, here is brief breakdown of the physical abilities of Ernie...

Strength -

As you can see, Ernie does have pretty high levels of strength and is pretty darn strong:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Even military grade, steel bunker doors don't stand a chance against him:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Durability -

I should also point out that Ernie is fairly difficult to put down:

No Caption Provided

So while bullets may pierce his skin, you can freeze him and he still keeps on going:

No Caption Provided

You can also hit him with a semi and blow him up, and he just brushes it off:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Electricity doesn't slow him down in the slightest:

No Caption Provided

His opponents can bullrush him through a concrete wall with tonner level strength:

No Caption Provided

And he just keeps on ticking. Ernie can most definitely tank some damage=)

Speed -

Ernie can also react to speedy types, and is by no means slow:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Skill -

Ernie has no official training, though he is pretty darn talented in the arts of killing and combat. A good example of this is Ernie as a human, getting his hands free, and smacking around the security guards and orderlies:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He is pretty consistently able to match exceedingly skilled foes in combat and put the beatdown on them. Take for instance his fight with Crush, who was a highly trained soldier that was changed into a cyborg of sorts:

No Caption Provided

And Ernie has also been shown to be proficient in a variety of weaponry and firearms:

No Caption Provided

The Powers:

So while a lot of stuff under the physicals could be considered powers themselves, I wanted to give this it's own section apart from his physical abilities. There is a big and clear difference between the powers of Evil Ernie and Earnest Fairchild. Ernie does not have the ability to affect reality through drawings, and initially his telepathic ability was changed to controlling and affecting the dead. So yeah, he can create zombies and control them (his Dead Onez):

No Caption Provided

And these zombies, while maybe a slightly stronger than a baseline human, aren't going to be much of a problem for Wolfman, and would be a minor nuisance at best, so they won't really get any sort of focus in this battle. In a prep battle, I could have argued his dead onez using military grade and high tech weaponry and so on...but we went with a random, so it is what it is.

After a time, the Dead Mind as it is termed is formed, and gains it's own kind of sentience, and Ernie loses access to portions of it and his control over some of his undead, but he regains a bit of his telepathic power:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Now while I know a win via telepathic means is out in this battle, I just wanted to show that to illustrate Ernie's versatility as compared to a basic brick type character. Moving on from stuff that is really neither here nor there in this fight, while connected to his psychotic little friend, Smiley, Ernie has regeneration that is pretty darn effective:

No Caption Provided

He can also create blasts of arcane energy:

No Caption Provided

Between his physical abilities, his regen, and his ability to create blasts of arcane energy, Ernie should be able to keep Wolfman on his toes...claws...whatever he has...

In Summary:

There is your intro to Ernie brother man. So while I cannot lay down a strategy and plan of attack until I learn a little more about Wolfman, I have hopefully laid enough groundwork for this to start. Wolfman's biggest issue here is going to be in his ability to actually put Ernie down. Ernie should be able to keep up speed and strength wise, and can produce bursts of arcane energy to aid in his attacks. The telepathy, we are obviously ignoring for this battle, but Ernie is pretty darn versatile for a undead psycho brick type character as you can see=)

Your move bro.

Avatar image for higorm
#7 Posted by HigorM (8923 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for wyldsong
#8 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for joewell911
#9 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

.em gaT

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#10 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: looks like a potential good match. I will hit ya back soon.

@sirfizzwhizz: You're going to lose. If you were CadenceV2 then you would stand a chance, but you're too new for this.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for wyldsong
#11 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#12 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

No Caption Provided

Ok lets start. Since I made my intro, and you did as well posting some feats, I will follow like wise. You and I like to sue scans, lol, and we always do to not only debate, but show off our characters. Most Viners now and days hate "Scan Bombing" but when people like you and me show off characters no one know, we like to back up our sh!t. :) So here is what Wolf man can bring to the table.

Strength

Lets compare Strength. I think they are even.

No Caption Provided

Wolfman slams this supers head into a skyscraper, and rides it down the wall to street level. Pretty crazy strong there.

No Caption Provided

Slams a car so hard with his legs to smash the entire front end and engine block.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Two separate feats of smashing through with utter ease solid concrete walls. In the second one he throws a foe hard enough to smash through one wall, and through the next wall of another building in one throw.

I think it will be hard press to say Ernie will harm the wolf here with strength alone.

Speed

Honestly I do not have many feats here, other than we know Wold Man keeps up with beings that are faster than humans can be. I will not be splashing speed featssimply becuase Wolf Man is simply above Peak Human.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Two speed feats of Wolf Man getting out of sight faster than anyone can notice, and does this by scaling the walls or jumping faster than people can follow. Pretty decent.

No Caption Provided

This is a better feat of slamming a car moving at top speeds. Then when the body in the car is ejected out at that momentum, Wolf Man casually catches him.

This is not all the feats I have, but will save some for later. these alone show pretty much faster than most humans can react or think though, and to Wolf man its casual. I can show some better ones if need be, but in no way do I think either side has a speed advantage.

Durability

This is the core of being a mother howling werewolf. Its the core of your character being a super freak zombie. The durability arguments. Lets face it, this is the real debate here. Who will give out first. C'mon, you know its true. both these guys will be doing insane damage, and getting up for more. Wolf Man durability is pretty damn good too.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here he is flown to major sky height, and dropped. Wolf Man lands in a major crater shattering landing, but gets up just fine. No harm done.

No Caption Provided

Here he tanks explosive missiles with no lasting damage.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Here go two more examples of straight fire having no effect on Wolf Man in a burning building, nor the heat of a furnace in Wolf Man's face.

These are enough to give ya a idea what your up against here. Both guys here have great Durability, my argument will be why my guy can tank more of the damage your putting out, but also how Wolf Man will deal more damage in turn to Ernie.

Skill

Not much to post here, but as I said in the opener, I think Wolf Man holds a edge here, however slight.

Wolf man originally train with the Vampire Zecharia for many months. A Vampire who turn Wolf Man's own common teenage daughter into a super assassin in a few months time.

No Caption Provided

Zecharia a being who lived 100s of years and well verse in Oriental Sword fighting, and skill in stealth.

Then Wolf Man became enemies with Zecharia, and needed further training from the Elder. The oldest and most powerful Werewolf in the world. A being who conquered many foes.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

After a few weeks training with Elder, Wolf Man learn to harness more his werewolf abilities, and how to fight better as a werewolf.

All these skills actually show and pay off in his fights.

No Caption Provided

In this fight, Wolf Man in his mere human form was skilled enough to face Hunter, a agent in the Invincible comics, working for Cecil. This guy has enhance stats due to his Deadpool like healing power, and is a train agent that hunts super humans for a living. Wolf Man as a mere human does a great job in surprising Hunter with his skill alone in a state he though he was helpless in.

As the fight progresses, I will show how well Wolf Man applies his skill with his werewolf abilities. I feel it is a documented and shown edge.

Healing

We knew this had to come up. Whats better than raw durability? healing of course. Another thing Werewolves excel in. First off Wolf Man has two types of healing. He has natural healing, which keeps Wolf Man alive in situations he should be flat out dead, but only in the Wolf form. Then he has transforming healing which he can use as a last resort in a fight to heal all damage.

Lets first discuss natural wolf healing.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

During his training with the Elder, Wolf Man quickly learn of the ability to simply stay alive in his Wolf Form when he should be simply dead. Wolf Man only knew of transforming healing, which has a drawback and I will touch on that in a later post. So here he learn to tank damage that would kill, but keep chugging.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Perfect example of this is when his own daughter, Chloe stabbed him in the heart. He pulls the blade out, and still held a lengthy conversation with here. Even the famous Wolverine is KOed by such a attack.

No Caption Provided

Heck here he takes a silver bullet to the head, and fights on still regardless that its a instant kill weakness for other Werewolves. The point is he can take a substantial beating and keep going when ever he is faced with something that can hurt him.

Now this power is more a... keep alive form of healing rather than healing wounds. It simply works in wolf form to keep him from succumbing to attacks that would otherwise KO or Kill him from the get go. As I said he has another form of healing, which repairs all damage, but I will hold onto that till it is needed.

Another great power he has is wolf senses.He has the equivalent sight, hearing, and smell of any wolf.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Able to detect villains from across a city, or locate Zecharia who wish to remain hidden.

Moving on from that obvious ability, Wolf Man also has the attributes that all great werewolves share. Teeth and Claws.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Yes sir, his claws an teeth are his main form of weapon in any fight, and one of the key ways to beating Evil Ernie. The argument will be is Ernie durable enough to tank this, I think not. The feats I can show for his claws alone will be revealed later as needed. But this is the major x factor Wolf man has over Ernie IMO.

Strategy

so how does this go down. IMO Ernie is not that much different from the foes Wolf Man face before. He really isn't, and while they are evenly match in most ways, the key is who can last and deal the most damage. I think this is Wolf Man, who once in combat will use his slightly better documented skill, claws, and raw durability to take the wins.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#13 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Alrighty, kicking this thing into a higher gear since we have the openers out of the way, and shots have been fired=)

No Caption Provided

While I normally argue heroic characters, I have to say that with my love of horror, it is kind of fun getting a chance to bring a villain into a CaV=)

Strength:

"Lets compare Strength. I think they are even."

I can't really I say I disagree. Even if it were in favor of Wolfman, Ernie's arcane energy can amp his strength to match more powerful foes:

No Caption Provided

This was during his battle with Cremator, who would normally be outside of Ernie's weight class...the amp from his arcane energy evened the playing field as you will see later in the post...

"I think it will be hard press to say Ernie will harm the wolf here with strength alone"

Good thing Ernie has more than just strength going for him then=)

Durability:

"Its the core of your character being a super freak zombie. The durability arguments. Lets face it, this is the real debate here."

Ernie is durable, fairly disgustingly so. I can prove he can tank blunt durability damage like a champ, explosions and bullets, and that he feels no pain...but to be honest, the core of my argument with Ernie keeping on trucking in this battle will lay elsewhere. Can Wolfman get past Ernie's durability? If he goes for blunt force trauma...meh, probably not. We will see what you bring to the table with those claws though...

Although, I can show him tanking missiles as well:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And he has tanked hits from Cremator, who will be discussed below, but all in all, I'll wait to see what else you have to bring to the table on this front, but I think Ernie could possibly come up with a few ways to put the hurt on him...I guess we will see if I am correct once all is said and done=)

Skill:

"Not much to post here, but as I said in the opener, I think Wolf Man holds a edge here, however slight."

Wolfman most definitely has the better background training wise. No arguments here, though Ernie has faced quite a few people with far more experience and training than himself, and come out on top. You saw Crush, the military guy in my last post. I can also show a little of his fight with Ramsey, another high ranking military trained type wearing power armor, and as you can see, his fight with Ernie didn't go so so well for him:

No Caption Provided

But, let's talk a little about his fight with Cremator. Cremator is the one who trained Lady Death (quite possibly the greatest overall fighter in the old school Chaos U), and while his exact age is not known, we do know that he has 400+ years of combat experience, and is a master of multiple weapons. Like I said, Ernie's ability is a savant like ability, and he is contantly shown to either match or beat those more skilled and experienced than he is:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

I wish I could show more of the battle, but I do have one more thing to show from the same book, and I need to keep the scan count from that issue down. Now, the other thing that is impressive about this fight is that Cremator plays in the realm of beings that punch through planets, fly through suns, some are planet busters, and so on...he even has a fight with a foe, where their battle threatened to level the largest city in Hell...so Cremator is definitely a legit threat and Ernie was able to tank attacks from him, and his arcane energy amped his strength to allow him to keep up. Needless to say, he is able to overcome and beat Cremator in one on one combat.

Overall, Ernie should be able to keep pace with Wolfman without any real issue=)

Healing:

"Wolf Man only knew of transforming healing, which has a drawback and I will touch on that in a later post."

Curious to hear about this...

While Wolfman may have good healing, I think Ernie probably takes the cake here. He can heal his wounds with a burst of arcane energy:

No Caption Provided

He can reattach limbs:

No Caption Provided

He can even borrow body parts from others, and incorporate the new pieces into his body:

No Caption Provided

Though to be honest, he has one weakness to his healing, and that will be in dealing with Smiley. Ernie is good as long as he is connected to or in proximity with Smiley, though if they can be separated, Ernie is screwed. Now, I share this, because I don't want people thinking he is just an invincible, regenerating machine, which he kind of is, but he does have a weakness in there. The good news is, Wolfman doesn't know about this piece of intel=)

All in all, Ernie takes the edge here from what has been seen and shown so far.

"Another great power he has is wolf senses."

Wolfman takes the cake there in enhanced senses, though all in all, Ernie won't be hard for Wolfman to find, so he really won't need his enhanced senses here=)

Arcane Energy:

Arcane energy is really what the core of Ernie is. It can enhance his physical stats, it heals him, and he has fired of blasts of energy...but he won't just be firing projectiles that can be dodged...you see, Ernie can bring the boom:

No Caption Provided

If it is good enough to knock Cremator off of his feat, it is good enough to do the same to Wolfman=)

As he shown the ability to do on more than one occasion:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

And while this following is the least likely, he can go "nuclear", in a sense if needed, with a devastating burst of arcane energy:

No Caption Provided

Less likely like I said, and would be a death for both parties, but pretty cool nonetheless...

Kind of hard to dodge these kind of attacks, especially when Ernie can pull it off in close quarters combat without warning...

In Closing:

  • Strength and speed I think we can agree are at least comparable and the fight is not necessarily going to be decided on that front. They each have what it takes to keep pace in those arenas.

  • Durability wise, both are exceedingly durable, though if what I have heard is true, Wolfman might hold a slight edge in that arena, but we shall see what else you have to bring to the table on that front. Needless to say, Ernie is still no slouch in that arena, and should be good with tanking anything blunt force wise Wolfman may attempt.

  • Wolfman's training versus Ernie's natural talent...Ernie has faced some experienced and tough foes, and I see no reason to believe he couldn't match Wolfman in hand to hand.

  • Healing wise, so far, I'd say Ernie holds the edge here, and with Ernie's arcane bomb blasts, he can most definitely deal some heavy damage and keep Wolfman on his toes.

"while they are evenly match in most ways, the key is who can last and deal the most damage."

All in all, I agree with this for the most part, but so far, I think Ernie has what it takes to deal the most damage, especially when you factor in what he is capable of with his arcane energy. Wolfman will give him a good fight to be sure, and won't go down easily, but Ernie's versatility with his powers and abilities are what is going to seal the win for him here.

Your move brother man.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#14 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:I really do enjoy this match up. These characters are well matched and with the Halloween theme, I can really dig it.

Loading Video...

Back to the match :)

No Caption Provided

Strength:

I can't really I say I disagree. Even if it were in favor of Wolfman, Ernie's arcane energy can amp his strength to match more powerful foes:

This was during his battle with Cremator, who would normally be outside of Ernie's weight class...the amp from his arcane energy evened the playing field as you will see later in the post...

This is cool, I like to post some of the top strength feats then, and get them out of the way. in this fight your character will be needing to Amp himself then.

No Caption Provided

Wolf Man himself shown to crater people in the solid earth.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The typical Werewolves are able to crater Wolfman in solid concrete, but as seen in the fight, Wolf Man can casually break them with a simple palm thrust. This is all while holding back till upset.

No Caption Provided

Wolf Man is strong enough to match strength with the Elder, who can make giant craters in the earth, and smash to splinter full grown trees.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

This is impressive. Immortal is 25 tonner by bio, yet trying to bust out, he could not. As stated this stuff is tough, and would crush everyone in the substance before busting. Take note some of the characters there also have razor bladed weapons and disintegrating energy attacks too. So its not Wolf Man's claws that do this feat. What we see is Zecharia going mist form, as to not get crushed, and Wolf Man powering out of the trap.

Either way one looks at it, Wolf Man is strong. So I see Ernie needing to amp possibly to match.

Durability:

Ernie is durable, fairly disgustingly so. I can prove he can tank blunt durability damage like a champ, explosions and bullets, and that he feels no pain...but to be honest, the core of my argument with Ernie keeping on trucking in this battle will lay elsewhere. Can Wolfman get past Ernie's durability? If he goes for blunt force trauma...meh, probably not. We will see what you bring to the table with those claws though...

Although, I can show him tanking missiles as well:

And he has tanked hits from Cremator, who will be discussed below, but all in all, I'll wait to see what else you have to bring to the table on this front, but I think Ernie could possibly come up with a few ways to put the hurt on him...I guess we will see if I am correct once all is said and done=)

Im glad we are showing these better feats, now i can show wolf man blunt wise matching :)

No Caption Provided

Wolf Man spent a whole night fighting the Gorgg remnants. Getting smacked around and holding up fine. These remnants were enough to fight 100 toner like Yeti, and smack around Bulletproof who is above Immortal.

No Caption Provided

This was Gorgg by the way who wolf man tank a blow from just fine as well. armed with only gauntlets and a jet pack, Wolf Mans durability took that blow. But to show Wolf man being consistent here, I have more.

No Caption Provided

Tanks a punch from a looser morals at the time Invincible. Invincible here punches Wolf Man with so much force, that even though he started well above the tree lines, he hit the ground so hard to skid before stopping. No love tap at all, and no effect on Wolf Man really.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Finally here, one of his best feats is when he tank the might of a full Monster Girl hit, followed by a blow from Outrun with her charged up blow backed by momentum. Monster Girl is a being who can fight, and harm Invincible, and well over 100+ tons. As seen in the the next two scans not only this slightly daze Wolf Man, but shows him getting back up to fight fine after that.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Finally there is this gem of a feat. In this Chloe under the amp of Vampire Blood uses Zecharia's sword to effortlessly slice through a super villains super durable mech suit like nothing. This same sword in the hands of the stronger and more skilled Zecharia cannot even by pass Wolf Man's bone. only other Werewolf claws shown to get past it, or stabbing between the bones like Chloe shown in the above post works well.

This is the level of Durability to blunt and slicing damage Astounding Wolf Man has. It is pretty incredible.

Skill:

Wolfman most definitely has the better background training wise. No arguments here, though Ernie has faced quite a few people with far more experience and training than himself, and come out on top. You saw Crush, the military guy in my last post. I can also show a little of his fight with Ramsey, another high ranking military trained type wearing power armor, and as you can see, his fight with Ernie didn't go so so well for him:

But, let's talk a little about his fight with Cremator. Cremator is the one who trained Lady Death (quite possibly the greatest overall fighter in the old school Chaos U), and while his exact age is not known, we do know that he has 400+ years of combat experience, and is a master of multiple weapons. Like I said, Ernie's ability is a savant like ability, and he is contantly shown to either match or beat those more skilled and experienced than he is:

I wish I could show more of the battle, but I do have one more thing to show from the same book, and I need to keep the scan count from that issue down. Now, the other thing that is impressive about this fight is that Cremator plays in the realm of beings that punch through planets, fly through suns, some are planet busters, and so on...he even has a fight with a foe, where their battle threatened to level the largest city in Hell...so Cremator is definitely a legit threat and Ernie was able to tank attacks from him, and his arcane energy amped his strength to allow him to keep up. Needless to say, he is able to overcome and beat Cremator in one on one combat.

Overall, Ernie should be able to keep pace with Wolfman without any real issue=)

Again through all this, its not so much skill that saves the day, but his stats and abilities to me. However as said it would be only a slight edge fro Wolf Man. He has tons of fighting experience against various Super powers, and beings, and beaten them. However its the real documented training to be a hero that gives him the slight edge. As shown when he got the better of the super human Hunter in human form.

Healing:

Curious to hear about this...

Well time to touch up on this then. :)

While Wolfman may have good healing, I think Ernie probably takes the cake here. He can heal his wounds with a burst of arcane energy:

He can reattach limbs:

He can even borrow body parts from others, and incorporate the new pieces into his body:

Though to be honest, he has one weakness to his healing, and that will be in dealing with Smiley. Ernie is good as long as he is connected to or in proximity with Smiley, though if they can be separated, Ernie is screwed. Now, I share this, because I don't want people thinking he is just an invincible, regenerating machine, which he kind of is, but he does have a weakness in there. The good news is, Wolfman doesn't know about this piece of intel=)

All in all, Ernie takes the edge here from what has been seen and shown so far.

Well as I shown above, Wolf Man in wolf form has great ability to, well, not die lol. That is how his wolf form heals. Taking instant death blows, and not dying. However what kind of Werewolf he be if he had nothing better than that? A poor one. So lets touch in the second from of healing. Transformation healing. Transformation healing is the ability all werewolves have. it allows all damage taken in human, or wolf form, to be instantly healed in the other form. So a messed up werewolf in wolf form, will auto be healed in human form, and vice versa. Examples.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

After his first attack by the Elder, Gary was dying, but when he transform that night, he was auto healed of all mortal damage fully.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here again Gary takes major lethal damage, and pretty much lies dead on the side of the road till night came, and all wounds were auto healed in wolf form.

however there is a draw back when used in battle. When preforming this, the damage you take transforming human and back leaves your human form not only vulnerable during the moments it is human, but leaves you slightly dazed when you transform back.

No Caption Provided

However this drawback is not as bad as it looks. Wolf Man by the end of his training with Elder showed Wolf Man using this ability in a fight, and not suffering from the consequences that much.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

As seen through these scans for context, Wolf Man after his beatings from the vampirize Actioneers, his damaging battle with Zecharia, and having his heart shredded by Chloe was able to transfrom to human, and back. In the shown time of the small talk and threats, maybe 10-20 seconds at most, Wolf Man is fully healed and on his second wind.

This is a game changer in any battle. Damaging Wolf Man is hard enough, but should he seem dead, and transform, only to transform back, he is complete refresh. He can do this in battle by simply finding a place to hide real quick, and do the transformation. Either way he may seem dead or KOed, but in reality he is just getting his second wind, and will be totally fresh for battle again.

Arcane Energy:

Arcane energy is really what the core of Ernie is. It can enhance his physical stats, it heals him, and he has fired of blasts of energy...but he won't just be firing projectiles that can be dodged...you see, Ernie can bring the boom:

If it is good enough to knock Cremator off of his feat, it is good enough to do the same to Wolfman=)

As he shown the ability to do on more than one occasion:

And while this following is the least likely, he can go "nuclear", in a sense if needed, with a devastating burst of arcane energy:

Less likely like I said, and would be a death for both parties, but pretty cool nonetheless...

Kind of hard to dodge these kind of attacks, especially when Ernie can pull it off in close quarters combat without warning...

I am glad we are discussing energy now. I showed Wolf Man tanking intense heat like nothing, but what about other powerful energies? Well along with that blunt and slash durability, as a werewolf he has major energy durability too.

No Caption Provided

Meet the Face. this guy is basically like Clyclopes, only we see his blasts are powerful enough to KO one of the super human cape's, as they are called, in one shot.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

The Face when enraged at Wolf Man blasts him full force, only for Wolf Man to bounce right back. However this is not Wolf Man's best feat with energy attacks.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Meet Red Eye. Red Eye as seen has insane powerful blasts. His Blasts vaporized matter, like the whole of this car. It disintegrates humans on hit. This is the level of power of these beams.

No Caption Provided

As seen he takes a full blast in the gut. His partner, another super human being was vaporized. Red Eye even comments on Wolf Man's durability to taking the hit. Now your thinking, "well he still went down." then I would reply there is context here not mention yet. Not only Wolf Man tank this attack, he did so during the day, when his powers are at their weakest! By alot! As seen in the next scan what happen when moonlight touches Wolf Man again at night.

No Caption Provided

He asks the kid to get some moonlight in the cell, he needs moonlight weather New Moon, or Full Moon or any in between to maintain his wolf powers. once exposed to the night, he fully is able to recover, rip through the steel holdings, and get back into the fight. So with that said, I really think Ernie average blasts will not be that much more effective than blunt damage. At best it gives him range options, but its not a game changer unless he goes nuke, which is bad for both parties lol.

Claws and Teeth

Well there is one more thing I like to add now. The Claws. i touch on them earlier, but I will really harp on them now. I showed already some examples of them doing the casual damage claws and teeth can do to human durable foes. Ernie is more than durable enough to be effected right? He tanks bullets, missiles, and other powerful attacks that should shred his body right? Well, i am comfortable in saying this, Ernie is not tanking these claws or teeth at all. they shown time and again to cut, and stab through beings with Smart Atom durability. beings on the same level as young Invincible. Let me give the examples.

No Caption Provided

Plows right through Sgt. Superior who showed super human strength and flight.

No Caption Provided

Here Wolf man shreds through Reanimen of all things like they're wheat. Reanimen are shown to been near equals to Invincible in the first 30 odd issues. They were in the 30+ ton range, and had Smart Atom durability though not quite invincible level of course. However these Reanimen are superior models, made with better tech, and special armor to boot. These Government Reanimen are enough to overwhelm even Invincible in the roughly 20 to 1 scenario. That is how tough they are. Wolf Man shreds them!

So in short, I see no reason for Ernie to simply shruff off or tank these perfect counter to his range when in close combat.

In Closing:

Strength and speed I think we can agree are at least comparable and the fight is not necessarily going to be decided on that front. They each have what it takes to keep pace in those arenas.

I agree, neither is out powering the other.

Durability wise, both are exceedingly durable, though if what I have heard is true, Wolfman might hold a slight edge in that arena, but we shall see what else you have to bring to the table on that front. Needless to say, Ernie is still no slouch in that arena, and should be good with tanking anything blunt force wise Wolfman may attempt.

Im not sure if you think he is more durable, I think he might be, as I laid it all bare this post. I think Ernie has a better regen factor, even though Wolf Man has a useful one, but Wolf Man seems more resistant to damage in general.

Wolfman's training versus Ernie's natural talent...Ernie has faced some experienced and tough foes, and I see no reason to believe he couldn't match Wolfman in hand to hand.

Like I said, if anything its the slightest edge if anything. Not like say Ernie facing Shang Chi.

Healing wise, so far, I'd say Ernie holds the edge here, and with Ernie's arcane bomb blasts, he can most definitely deal some heavy damage and keep Wolfman on his toes.

I agree Ernie has a better active regen. Wolf Man though has a very useful regen in his Wolf Form, and his transformations too. It really helps with his incredible durability.

All in all, I agree with this for the most part, but so far, I think Ernie has what it takes to deal the most damage, especially when you factor in what he is capable of with his arcane energy. Wolfman will give him a good fight to be sure, and won't go down easily, but Ernie's versatility with his powers and abilities are what is going to seal the win for him here.

Ernie has a given advantage in range, I will not argue that. However Wolf Man has an advantage in the close range as I attempted to show. The question then is if Wolf Man can close in close range should Ernie attempt to put distance between them. I had shown a few examples already of Wolf Man scaling skyscrapers faster than people can notice, and examples in my scans of Wolf Man leaping over tree lines in a single bound. Needless to say he is fast, fast enough to get into range where he can excel.

Your move brother man.

Back at ya bro :) I think after your post I will make my last one. There is simply not much for me to post scan wise, and mostly its up to voters to decide who will outlast in this interesting match up.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#15 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:A long delayed response, but better late than never I guess=)

No Caption Provided

Strength:

"Either way one looks at it, Wolf Man is strong. So I see Ernie needing to amp possibly to match."

The amping is kind of an automatic thing, so if needed, it will happen, but I should point out that Ernie fights pretty evenly with guys who tank the full force of a speeding semi truck without budging (and Ernie does not amp in this fight):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Whether or not he needs to amp...guess it is really neither here nor there since he can match strength levels irregardless, so I won't argue too hard on whether they are even at baseline or not.

Durability:

"This is the level of Durability to blunt and slicing damage Astounding Wolf Man has. It is pretty incredible."

Wolf Man is pretty darn durable, and there is no denying that. His cutting and piercing durability is definitely better than Ernie's. Blunt and explosive forces, are pretty darn close on both sides though=)

Skill:

"Again through all this, its not so much skill that saves the day, but his stats and abilities to me. However as said it would be only a slight edge fro Wolf Man."

Well, stat wise, they are nearly on par with each other. I think each character holds a definitive edge in certain arenas.

"He has tons of fighting experience against various Super powers, and beings, and beaten them."

Ernie has torn through the denizens of hell, faced Cremator, various cyborgs, robots, undead, and other monstrosities, all with various powers and abilities. I'd say they both have tons of experience fighting superhuman opponents.

"However its the real documented training to be a hero that gives him the slight edge. As shown when he got the better of the super human Hunter in human form."

Plenty of heroes have tried to end Ernie and failed=)

Healing and Regen:

"This is a game changer in any battle. Damaging Wolf Man is hard enough, but should he seem dead, and transform, only to transform back, he is complete refresh. He can do this in battle by simply finding a place to hide real quick, and do the transformation."

His healing is good, don't get me wrong, but Ernie still takes the cake in this department. He can heal without any sort of drawback. He has been healed while on death's door:

No Caption Provided

From being torn to shreds:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And even after being hit with a nuke:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

FYI: Smiley had actually teleported to Hell prior to the nuke hitting and came back to heal Ernie.

A lot of areas may be arguable, but this is one Ernie excels in. Not that you are disagreeing with me on this front, but I just want to clarify that his healing is really, really bad arse=)

"Either way he may seem dead or KOed, but in reality he is just getting his second wind, and will be totally fresh for battle again."

Ernie will know whether Wolf Man is dead or not. He can raise the dead, and if you think he is going to pass up on having a werewolf zombie as a minion, then I just don't know what to say to you=)

Arcane Energy:

"So with that said, I really think Ernie average blasts will not be that much more effective than blunt damage."

While you have shown Wolf Man eventually bouncing back from various energy attacks, they are still able to affect him in various degrees, and not a single one of them is from a supernatural source, at least that I can tell. Regardless, one of the guys I showed you in Ernie's AoE showings, the Suicide King, was specifically buffed by Mistress Hel to face Ernie:

No Caption Provided

But Ernie was still able to affect him. Now I have shown the below, but I have cropped it down a bit more to give more focus to Suicide King:

No Caption Provided

"At best it gives him range options, but its not a game changer unless he goes nuke, which is bad for both parties lol."

He was able to harm a resistant foe with a blast that wasn't his nuke, but was most definitely an AOE. I think he can do a few things to hurt Wolf Man here, though you are right, his nuke would be bad for both parties, I cannot lie on that front. It took the Devil resurrecting Ernie to bring him back from that one=)

Dem Claws:

"So in short, I see no reason for Ernie to simply shruff off or tank these perfect counter to his range when in close combat."

To be honest, I can't argue Ernie's durability against Wolf Man's claws. The claws will in fact be able to damage Ernie. Ernie's defense here against such an attack is his healing ability. He can be sliced and diced, and can reform in extreme cases, as long as Smiley is on or near him. What happens if Smiley is knocked away in the battle? Well, Smiley can move about on his own:

No Caption Provided

And can take over other bodies for mobility:

No Caption Provided

Though I think Ernie can take Wolf Man down before that becomes an issue that they have to worry about. This becomes a case of Wolf Man's claws and shredding ability versus Ernie's arcane energy attacks, which I see as the two most defining attacks in this battle. Which one is more potent? We shall see when this is all said and done=)

In closing:

"Im not sure if you think he is more durable, I think he might be, as I laid it all bare this post. I think Ernie has a better regen factor, even though Wolf Man has a useful one, but Wolf Man seems more resistant to damage in general."

I think Wolf Man has the better overall durability, though blunt/explosive trauma is pretty close. I'd be lying out of my arse if I tried to argue otherwise=)

"Like I said, if anything its the slightest edge if anything. Not like say Ernie facing Shang Chi."

Lol, that is true and I will give you that much at least=)

"I agree Ernie has a better active regen. Wolf Man though has a very useful regen in his Wolf Form, and his transformations too. It really helps with his incredible durability."

Wolf Man has a nice combination of healing and durability that makes him a tough foe to be sure.

"Needless to say he is fast, fast enough to get into range where he can excel."

Here again, I won't argue that he can't close the distance, and get in some good hits/claw swipes/whatever. I do think trying to tank arcane energy at point blank range isn't going to do him any favors though=)

"I think after your post I will make my last one. There is simply not much for me to post scan wise, and mostly its up to voters to decide who will outlast in this interesting match up."

It is a good and interesting match-up, and I, like you, will be running out of showings soon. I can post showings of him slaughtering baseline humans all day long, but that would do little to actually prove anything against the likes of Wolf Man. I do have one more grouping of pertinent scans to bring up for my next post, but I agree and I think one more post for each of us ought to be sufficient.

Your move brother man=)

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#16 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Damn never got this tag. Be on this soon and finish this up with your last post.

Avatar image for emperorxhadesx420
#17 Posted by EmperorxHadesx420 (2324 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for supremegeneration
#18 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#19 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#20 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: sorry it took so long, lets wrap this great match up...er... up. lol

No Caption Provided

Strength:

The amping is kind of an automatic thing, so if needed, it will happen, but I should point out that Ernie fights pretty evenly with guys who tank the full force of a speeding semi truck without budging (and Ernie does not amp in this fight):

Whether or not he needs to amp...guess it is really neither here nor there since he can match strength levels irregardless, so I won't argue too hard on whether they are even at baseline or not.

I pretty much agree, strength is not much of a factor for either side as they are near even.

Durability:

Wolf Man is pretty darn durable, and there is no denying that. His cutting and piercing durability is definitely better than Ernie's. Blunt and explosive forces, are pretty darn close on both sides though=)

Agree.

Skill:

Well, stat wise, they are nearly on par with each other. I think each character holds a definitive edge in certain arenas.

i agree, i think there stats are roughly even, but hold advantages in certain areas. Ernie being his energy projection, and regen. Wolf man in his unique regen, and claws.

Ernie has torn through the denizens of hell, faced Cremator, various cyborgs, robots, undead, and other monstrosities, all with various powers and abilities. I'd say they both have tons of experience fighting superhuman opponents.

They are not lacking variety on either side for sure. Just to name names for fun, Zecharia, Werewolves, Gorgg(s), The Guardians of the Globe, Super Reanimen, and others lol. both have fought their share of variety, no doubt.

Plenty of heroes have tried to end Ernie and failed=)

mostly due to his insane abilities IMo than skill though :)

Healing and Regen:

His healing is good, don't get me wrong, but Ernie still takes the cake in this department. He can heal without any sort of drawback. He has been healed while on death's door:

From being torn to shreds:

And even after being hit with a nuke:

FYI: Smiley had actually teleported to Hell prior to the nuke hitting and came back to heal Ernie.

A lot of areas may be arguable, but this is one Ernie excels in. Not that you are disagreeing with me on this front, but I just want to clarify that his healing is really, really bad arse=)

I agree his healing overall is more superior in terms of immortality contest, but one thing about most of those feats there, they were Ko situations. He healed from it, but it took time, and thats a win for Wolf Man if he can get Ernie down to that level :)

Ernie will know whether Wolf Man is dead or not. He can raise the dead, and if you think he is going to pass up on having a werewolf zombie as a minion, then I just don't know what to say to you=)

Then it be good thing Wolf Man can do this fast as he showed both times. At best it may confuse Ernie in a "Why the hell is my werewolf Zombie not responding!?" lol

Arcane Energy:

While you have shown Wolf Man eventually bouncing back from various energy attacks, they are still able to affect him in various degrees, and not a single one of them is from a supernatural source, at least that I can tell. Regardless, one of the guys I showed you in Ernie's AoE showings, the Suicide King, was specifically buffed by Mistress Hel to face Ernie:

But Ernie was still able to affect him. Now I have shown the below, but I have cropped it down a bit more to give more focus to Suicide King:

He was able to harm a resistant foe with a blast that wasn't his nuke, but was most definitely an AOE. I think he can do a few things to hurt Wolf Man here, though you are right, his nuke would be bad for both parties, I cannot lie on that front. It took the Devil resurrecting Ernie to bring him back from that one=)

Wolf Man has not really faced "supernatural" energies, but faced various unidentified energies that take out super beings like nothing, so I am confident he can tank most levels of Ernie's attacks with little problem, with the biggest attack being potentially very harmful, however as kinda shown, Ernie does not use those level attacks off the bat or often, where Wolf Man may well end the fight before then.

There is also the possibility of wolf Man using his unique transformation to come back from that attack, leaving Ernie a bit "juiced" afterward. All possible factors I feel.

Dem Claws:

To be honest, I can't argue Ernie's durability against Wolf Man's claws. The claws will in fact be able to damage Ernie. Ernie's defense here against such an attack is his healing ability. He can be sliced and diced, and can reform in extreme cases, as long as Smiley is on or near him. What happens if Smiley is knocked away in the battle? Well, Smiley can move about on his own:

And can take over other bodies for mobility:

Though I think Ernie can take Wolf Man down before that becomes an issue that they have to worry about. This becomes a case of Wolf Man's claws and shredding ability versus Ernie's arcane energy attacks, which I see as the two most defining attacks in this battle. Which one is more potent? We shall see when this is all said and done=)

Pretty much. I also feel if say smiley went after Wolf Man, the reflexes of Wolf man would make that a bad choice.

No Caption Provided

It be no different then when Grey Wolf tried to blitz Wolf Man. Smiley likely be reacted and countered.

In closing:

I think Wolf Man has the better overall durability, though blunt/explosive trauma is pretty close. I'd be lying out of my arse if I tried to argue otherwise=)

Honest man to the last.

Wolf Man has a nice combination of healing and durability that makes him a tough foe to be sure.

Like I said, Ernie and Wolf man do the Zombie and Werewolf proud in their durability areas. Interesting match up.

Here again, I won't argue that he can't close the distance, and get in some good hits/claw swipes/whatever. I do think trying to tank arcane energy at point blank range isn't going to do him any favors though=)

Probably not, but like Invincible, and anything written by Kirkmen it seems, he follow the YOLO lifestyle. :)

It is a good and interesting match-up, and I, like you, will be running out of showings soon. I can post showings of him slaughtering baseline humans all day long, but that would do little to actually prove anything against the likes of Wolf Man. I do have one more grouping of pertinent scans to bring up for my next post, but I agree and I think one more post for each of us ought to be sufficient.

Your move brother man=)

Have at it man. I am finished in this Halloween special lol.

My final thoughts is this will be a dragged out fight, of Wolf Man and Ernie trying to damage the other, and going to more extremes to get the job done. Ernie will realize hand to hand is not working, and try energy attacks. I feel Wolf Man starting off with his claws will not have to switch tactics, but simply resort to putting more and more killing effort as he goes. In time I can see Ernie being shredded apart faster than he can Regen. Should he go for larger energy attacks, there is a good chance Wolf Man will survive, and possibly re heal via Transformation, and the process starts over again. There is also the possibility of Smiley being separated from Ernie in all this shredding, and that further bad news for him. Its a pretty solid fight, but I see Wolf Man more than not having a higher chance of winning if I was a betting man.

This was alot of fun old friend. Glad you thought of it.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#21 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for masterkungfu
#23 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

tag

Avatar image for wyldsong
#24 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:Well my friend, I guess it is time to finally close this bad boy out. It's been fun discussing the advantages and disadvantages of these two lesser known characters against one another, and it has been a fairly easy going and relaxed CaV between the two of us, but it is time to lay the rest of my cards out on the table. First, some mood music and a perfect song for one of my favorite psychos in all of comicdom...

Loading Video...

Considering how Ernie operates and changes his victims into psychotic undead under his control...very appropriate song=)

No Caption Provided

Strength and Durability:

Not much else to say here. Strength will be even, and Wolf Man has the better overall durability, while their respective blunt and explosive force durability are about even. Nothing new to see here, and I think these issues are pretty much settled. We seem to be in full agreement on these areas=)

Skill:

"i agree, i think there stats are roughly even, but hold advantages in certain areas. Ernie being his energy projection, and regen. Wolf man in his unique regen, and claws."

I would personally place overall durability as one of Wolf Man's unique advantages here. Someone who can tank some hits from Invinicible characters is pretty darn hard to put down, just as Ernie's regen makes him darn near impossible to put down.

"both have fought their share of variety, no doubt."

Lol...it is hard to debate with you when we are agreeing on a lot of areas=P

"mostly due to his insane abilities IMo than skill though :)"

His insane abilities and natural talent for slaughter, death, and chaos=)

Healing and Regen:

"He healed from it, but it took time, and thats a win for Wolf Man if he can get Ernie down to that level :)"

The being torn to shreds bit, Ernie had been weakened prior to the event, considering someone had taken quite a bit of his power and seperated him from Smiley. On that front, unless Wolf Man can drain arcane energy, Ernie should be alright. The death's door bit with Purgatori, he had been seperated from Smiley for quite some time and drained his energy powering a machine that hit the world with a telepathic suicide effect. And I don't see Wolf Man hitting with the force of a nuke on the nuke example...

So we pretty much have reasoning behind each time Ernie's healing took any bit of time, and when connected with Smiley, the healing takes no time at all as I have shown. The good news here, is that they don't ever advertise that Smiley is the key, and there are no tell tale signs of such either. Personally, I think Ernie will at least have Wolf Man down for the big KO before any such issues of Smiley getting accidentally knocked off come up, and you will see why shortly=)

A Note on the Claws:

"I also feel if say smiley went after Wolf Man, the reflexes of Wolf man would make that a bad choice."

Just as an FYI, I didn't show that to state he would try to take over Wolf Man. I just showed that to point out that Smiley is mobile and more than just a button. He can create appendages and can get around, so there are options if Ernie and Smiley are seperated.

I apologize if I didn't clarify that point enough when I initially brought it up=)

Arcane Infection Time:

"so I am confident he can tank most levels of Ernie's attacks with little problem"

Maybe when it comes to attacks that hit him from the outside, maybe, though his ability to hurt foes resistant to his arcane energy speaks volumes on it's ability to affect Wolf Man when he amps up the juice...but I have honestly saved the best for last when it comes to his arcane energy attacks...

"with the biggest attack being potentially very harmful, however as kinda shown, Ernie does not use those level attacks off the bat or often"

He'll amp the juice if his attacks are failing, though the nuclear option is the last and least likely resort.

"where Wolf Man may well end the fight before then"

Actually, I really feel that Ernie will be the one to end this, and you will see why shortly=)

"Wolf Man has not really faced "supernatural" energies, but faced various unidentified energies that take out super beings like nothing, so I am confident he can tank most levels of Ernie's attacks with little problem"

And not having faced supernatural energies poses a problem in his defense against Ernie's attacks. Energy attacks are not all equal, and defense against one does not prove any sort of defense against another. A guy that utilizes heat based powers may prove immune to heat based attacks, but it doesn't make immune to cold based energies/attacks. Wolf Man may have proved durable against various energy attacks from different superhumans, but it does little to prove he can withstand an attack from an arcane/supernatural based source, especially when that attack has the proven ability to be able to harm foes that have resistance to supernatural attacks.

Suicide King that I have shown in prior posts is a prime example of this. He was shown to be directly resistant to Ernie's initial arcane attack, but Ernie proved to be able to overcome that resistance.

Much like physical resistances are not equal across the board as we have shown (blunt/explosive versus slicing/cutting/piercing), neither are energy based attacks. I haven't seen anything that really convinces me that Wolf Man will be all that resistant to such an attack.

"There is also the possibility of wolf Man using his unique transformation to come back from that attack, leaving Ernie a bit "juiced" afterward."

Honestly, Wolf Man will probably end up with the big KO or a sudden case of death before it comes to this. Ernie is actually a very smart and capable combatant, and Wolf Man is pretty damn durable. It won't take him long to figure out that his punches aren't doing much good, and that Wolf Man has a durable and thick hide. Now while I believe Ernie's arcane energy blasts to be enough to knock Wolf Man around and affect him, I can provide something a little more in regards to just how Ernie would probably try and end this fight.

Let's look at his fight with Cremator one more time, and see how Ernie ends it. This is a pretty similar idea to the battle we are debating in this very thread, as things were a bit too even, and Cremator was a bit too durable to be put down easily. So just how did Ernie pull off the win? By a little something that I like to call arcane infection. You see, Ernie saves this for his most dangerous foes, and has done it more than once. He can push his arcane energy into his foes, like so:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Cremator survived this attack, but was most definitely KO'ed and down for the count.

Suicide King was another foe that was pretty much resistant to Ernie's physical and arcane attacks, until he worked his little infection trick:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Not to mention, Ernie can get pretty darn lethal with it, as he has shown when he faced off against the demonic Walter:

No Caption Provided

Wolf Man has great outward durability, there is no denying that, but I doubt he has the means to survive that sort of attack. Sure, he can heal from a lot of outward, heavy hitting attacks, but one that can KO him from the inside? Hard to shift forms if he is knocked out or blown up on the inside. This is an attack that Ernie reserves for his more dangerous foes, and it says a lot about Wolf Man that it would probably be put into use in this bout...

All in all, arcane energy makes Ernie exceedingly versatile for a brick type character, especially with that nasty little ability to bypass outward durability and attack a foe internally=)

In Closing:

Wolf Man is a very skilled and dangerous foe. His durability is pretty insane, his claws are more than enough to slice and dice the toughest of foes, and he has the tools and the talent to give Ernie one hell of a fight. In the end though, Wolf Man will have to move into hand to hand combat to attempt to shred Ernie beyond recognition, and that is exactly where Ernie needs him to be to perform a little arcane infection to pull the win for this bout. Not to mention, arcane energy can and has been amped to the point to hurt resistant foes, so he most definitely has options in this bout to pull the win over Wolf Man=)

No Caption Provided

Alrighty brother man, there ends my part in this little Halloween themed battle, and while short and sweet, overall I think this was a fun and good matchup. I am going to drop some callouts for those that asked to be tagged, and I will tag a few others later if we need more voters.

Great debate brother man, and I salute you my friend=)

@higorm@joewell@supremegeneration@masterkungfu -- Tagging you guys as requested, it is voting time.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#25 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: And just in case the site isn't giving you notifications, I am going to tag you again so you can call in more voters. Now I have two more CaVs to work up posts for...oye...

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#26 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@sirfizzwhizz: And just in case the site isn't giving you notifications, I am going to tag you again so you can call in more voters. Now I have two more CaVs to work up posts for...oye...

Well glad this one came along, it was fun mate.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#27 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for yourneighborhoodcomicgeek
#28 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (21616 posts) - - Show Bio

I've actually been following this and after finishing reading it all I'll have to give the vote to @sirfizzwhizz. Close and great match though and solid arguments on both sides as always.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#29 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@sirfizzwhizz: And just in case the site isn't giving you notifications, I am going to tag you again so you can call in more voters. Now I have two more CaVs to work up posts for...oye...

Well glad this one came along, it was fun mate.

Brother man, I appreciate you making the vision for this bout come to fruition. This will probably be the only chance I will ever get to showcase Ernie in a CaV, and I feel it was a good showing on both our parts=)

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#30 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@wyldsong said:

@sirfizzwhizz: And just in case the site isn't giving you notifications, I am going to tag you again so you can call in more voters. Now I have two more CaVs to work up posts for...oye...

Well glad this one came along, it was fun mate.

Brother man, I appreciate you making the vision for this bout come to fruition. This will probably be the only chance I will ever get to showcase Ernie in a CaV, and I feel it was a good showing on both our parts=)

Hell yeah, as fun as our Xena vs Red Sonja CaV.

Avatar image for masterkungfu
#31 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

this is a tough one and I'll have to give my vote to wyldsong for presenting a solid case for ernie's skill that would enable him to take out the wolfman. nice work to sirfizzwhizz too. kudos to both

Avatar image for wyldsong
#32 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for supremegeneration
#34 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

Alrighty then time to read.

Avatar image for supremegeneration
#35 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

Before I cast in my vote, this was a really intense debate. I switched votes 3 times during the process of reading, and you presented detailed arguments with excelling grammar and spelling. First off I'd like to congratulate you BOTH for doing an amazing job with this. I didn't know any of these characters, but now I feel I can recite some of their best feats by heart. As for the vote, these were amazing arguments presented by both sides.

My vote goes to @wyldsong

Avatar image for wyldsong
#36 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#37 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for speedster101
#38 Posted by Speedster101 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Sure thing my friend. Some time tonight I'll have give this a read threw and I'll drop a vote :)

Avatar image for speedster101
#39 Posted by Speedster101 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: @sirfizzwhizz: Interesting CaV... Funny seeing strength and speed being nearly irrelevant.

I would have to give my vote to SFW.

Wyldsong: you did awesome, but I felt that you have up too many points. Admitting that Ernie is inferior in certain levels of durability helped me to come to my decision.

SirFizzWhizz: nice job sir, I beleived your argument I bit more considering Wyldsong gave you points and I beleived Wolfman could tank hits before resulting to healing where as you would overload Ernies healing or find a way to seperate him from his source of healing eventually.

Interesting and nice read guys! :)

Avatar image for wyldsong
#40 Edited by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#41 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wyldsong
#42 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for speedster101
#43 Posted by Speedster101 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mickey-mouse
#44 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll try to take a look at this later

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#45 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Avatar image for mickey-mouse
#46 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36840 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for wyldsong
#47 Posted by Wyldsong (9754 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for Jestersmiles
#48 Posted by Jestersmiles (9826 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: @sirfizzwhizz: I'll try and read it soon...

I get my vote in by friday. Sorry Sun-Wed are my busy days :(

Avatar image for sirfizwhiz
#49 Posted by Sirfizwhiz (1412 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Avatar image for floopay
#50 Posted by Floopay (11272 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: @sirfizwhiz:

The Unvarifiable

This is what makes this match extremely difficult to make a judgement call on. Had there been much in the way of Wolf Man going against any mystic force (arcane, astral, magic, chi, ki, etc.), and expressing any time of resistance or vulnerability; I think we'd have a pretty clear winner. But the problem is there isn't, so we're left to assumptions.

The Breakdown

Durability: Both have relatively similar levels of feats one way or the other. However, Wolf Man is shown frequently going up against piercing/slashing and coming up without much damage. Ernie doesn't seem to share that resistance, and actually does get hurt. Even bullets seem to have some level of affect on him.

Healing is another factor I'd like to throw in here. Ernie definitely blows Wolf Man out of the water with this, but Wolf Man isn't without his ways. The problem I'm seeing, however, is that in at least one scan Smiley stated he could no longer protect Ernie, and I think in a few others he expressed some level of taxation afterwards. To top it off, it should be stated that because he's got a plethora of scans proving he can heal quickly, it also goes without saying that he has plenty of scans of him taking heavy amounts of damage.

Wolf Man does have plenty of scans of him taking damage, but he doesn't need to heal as often. While Ernie has a clear advantage in regeneration, I actually think this category would go to Wolf Man for me.

....Winner: Wolf Man

Strength: I think this got played down a bit in the debate, and not much was touched on it primarily. However, there was actually a lot here in this department throughout the debate. In terms of physical combat, Wolf Man I believe wins this situation. The reason I say this is not because he is stronger, but that his strength should be far more effective against Ernie than Ernie's should be against Wolf Man.

....Winner: Wolf Man

Skill: Again, I think this really got played down. I think you were both right in stating that they are about equal in terms of shown skill. Both are adaptable, have faced off against great opponents, and etc. Wolf Man, however, seems to have the better training of the two. Ernie, on the other hand, has a lot of natural skill that has time and time again.

While I actually believe Wolf Man is by far the better shown melee combatant, I think the win will go to Ernie in this category. The reason being, he's not all melee. Ernie has a far larger array and variety of attacks to be proficient with, and to use in this fight. So while both may be equally "skilled", Ernie has more skills to draw from.

....Winner: Ernie

Fighting Styles: This is important for a lot of reasons, and I think had there been more on this particular topic from either side, I'd have an easier time making this decision. There wasn't a great showing in scans here outlining how each person fights. I saw both taking a lot of hits, and dishing out a lot of hits, but both were portrayed as "skilled bricks" (no offense). I didn't see much analysis of an opponent's fighting style, using stealth, dodging, tumbling, turning an opponent's attack back on him, etc. etc. I just say a lot of raw ability.

I think the person who touched on this a little within his scans would be Wolf Man (sirfizwhiz). Ernie showed a lot of getting hit, and hitting back, but I didn't see a lot of real fighting. Just glimpses into his raw ability, and not into his character in a fight.

For that reason, I have to give this to Wolf Man again.

Overall Opinion

I broke my opinion down because while reading and typing, I honestly wasn't certain who I'd actually pick. It was an amazing debate, you guys highlighted your own characters strengths, while not attacking your opponent's weaknesses. I haven't even logged into comicvine in quite a long time, but I have to say, I'm impressed.

Neither contestant should be unhappy with what they've put forward here. I wouldn't have minded at least one more post's worth of info from each outlining a few extra features off each character, but I'm definitely content with what I've read.

I'm officially going to pick Wolf Man (@sirfizwhiz) for my winner. By however little, I think he has a slight edge here. As in 5.1/10 fights.

Additionally

I think it was a tough debate for @wyldsong. I completely understand where you're coming from from the "supernatural" attack column. Because there weren't many scans of how it fairs against someone who has been shown to have a great amount of "energy" resistance, I have to just assume that it attacks as an "Eldritch Blast" or "Necroplasm" attack would, which is where Wolf Man's durability gave him and edge for me. However, it looks like Ernie comes from a heavily supernatural reality, so finding examples like that are rare at best. Either way though, it could have just as easily have gone in your favor had I read this on a different day and analyzed it from a different perspective.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay