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#1 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

Lion's Sin Of Pride:

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Vs:

The Future Pirate King:

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Rules/Stipulations:

  • Fight starts around 11:00
  • Luffy starts in Gear Four Boundman
  • Both are in-character, but completely serious
  • Standard tools/equipment
  • Starting distance is 50 meters
  • Refrain from voicing your opinion until the end of the debate

Location: Dressrosa

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@shirso Looks good?

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#2 Posted by DeathHero61 (18832 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP.

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#3 Posted by FaradaySloth (10089 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks awesome, T4V and TAEP

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#4 Posted by Defiant_Will (1185 posts) - - Show Bio

taep

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#5 Posted by blackpantherisb (7266 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by AlmightyAmortal (876 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#7 Posted by KingZod (4014 posts) - - Show Bio

You good Guinness? Juggling quite a few a these now.

TAEP

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#8 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4795 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#9 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8259 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP.

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#10 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3628 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP.

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#11 Posted by shirso (4471 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingguinness: I didn't get the tag lol. Will you go first this time?

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#12 Posted by HollowButterfly (282 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V/TAEP

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#13 Posted by Raw_Ability (134 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#14 Edited by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@kingguinness: I didn't get the tag lol. Will you go first this time?

Yeah, I'll go first

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#15 Posted by Darthjhawk (5595 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by mevbi (416 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by KingGuinness (1893 posts) - - Show Bio

Escanor: Lion's Sin Of Pride

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Bio:

Escanor「エスカノール」 is the Lion's Sin of Pride of the Seven Deadly Sins. He is renowned for gaining immense power during the day, and gradually becoming weaker with the setting of the sun, leaving him frail and submissive at night. His Sacred Treasure is the Divine Axe, Rhitta. His inherent power is named Sunshine.

General Information/Powers:

Combat Classes: A Combat Class is a combatants "genuine strength" given as a numerical value. Said numerical value is composed of three things; Magic,Force and Spirit.

Magic - Magic is the strength of one's magical powers.

Force - Force is the combatants physical strength.

Spirit - Spirit is the combatants willpower and perseverance in a fight.

Sacred Treasure: Sacred Treasures are uniquely powerful weapons that were granted to the Seven Deadly Sins by King Bartra of Liones. In total there are 7 Sacred Treasures, and each of them have special characteristics and abilities that benefit the Sin they're suited to. Escanor's Sacred Treasure is Divine Axe Rhitta, an extremely heavy and majestically designed battle that Escanor wields with prideful elegance.

Divine Axe Rhitta's special characteristic is Charge & Fire. Charge & Fire absorbs and stores the tremendous amount of heat energy Escanor radiates throughout the day and allows him to set it off at any given moment:

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Charge & Fire can also empower Escanor, transforming him from his puny timid self into his buff form with a touch:

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This works even under the influence of magic that simulates "True Night", which is what usually depowers Escanor.

Magic Power, Sunshine: Escanor's Magic Power is "Sunshine", a unique and incredibly powerful ability that allows Escanor to generate and manipulate tremendous amounts of heat. Alongside generating insane amounts of heat, "Sunshine" steadily increases Escanor's power hour by hour until it peaks at noon, wherein his strength easily surpasses that of all the other Sins:

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To follow up on this, when the time of day reaches high noon Escanor transforms into the "invincible incarnation of power" known as The One:

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The One is Escanor's Super Saiyan 3, and in this form he is overwhelmingly powerful. The only drawback about The One is that it only lasts one minute, but that isn't going to be a problem here.

This particular aspect of "Sunshine" (Increasing Escanor's strength over time) is the X-Factor here, and I'll explain why shortly.

Countdown To Luffy's Destruction: Physical Stats

As i stated just above, Escanor's gradually increasing strength is the X-Factor here. Why, you may ask? Because it places Luffy on a stop watch he doesn't know is in play. As the fight goes on, all of Escanor's abilities are going to gradually become more and more powerful until he reaches The One.

Like we agreed to on Discord, Escanor starts the fight at 11 o clock. Noon is at 12, meaning Luffy only has one single hour to defeat Escanor before The One comes into play and ends the fight right then and there. This would place quite a lot of stress on you because you'd have to prove that Luffy is not only superior, but vastly superior to Escanor to defeat him in one single hour while his strength is gradually increasing.

Suffice to say, Luffy being vastly superior to Escanor in anything is quite far fetched to say the least.

In terms of physical capabilities, I'm confident in asserting that Escanor is a match for Luffy.

In his first real "fight" in the current storyline, Escanor shows off his complete dominance to Galland in all aspects of physicals; speed, strength and durability included.

First he belittles Galland's strength, snatching his axe away from him at FTE speeds and holding it with a single hand:

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He effortlessly cleaves Galland in half, purposefully holding back his strength as to not kill him instantly:

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And then in an excellent showing of piercing durability, completely no sells Critical Over Galland's full force two armed strike:

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This feat in particular is very impressive, as the residual energy/air pressure of Galland's strike traveled miles away and cut off the tops of multiple hills. Solidly mountain level all things considered.

Galland himself is a character you should be very familiar with based on our last CAV, and as such you should be aware of all his feats. If for some reason you have forgotten, I'll quote all of the relevant sections from our previous CAV.

Galland's speed:

Galland has consistently and effortlessly blitzed the BOS Sins on multiple occasions:

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Most of the BOS Sins (Mainly Mel, Diane, Ban and King) all scale to each other in speed based on direct confrontations, and the BOS Sins have supersonic - hypersonic+ speed feats.

Meliodas was able to intercept Guila and Full Counter her explosion at point blank range:

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Explicitly break the sound barrier against Gilthunder and Hendrickson:

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And consistently time Gilthunder's lightning on multiple occasions:

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King casually reacted to Guila's explosion:

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And outraced one by several dozen meters at near point blank range:

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Both feats should be hypersonic+ at least, and Galland blitzed Demon Mark Meliodas. Demon Mark is basically Meliodas's power up, and it increases his stats by a drastic amount.

Just so the readers get an idea of how much Mel's Demon Mark amps him, this is what it allowed him to do to Ban:

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It basically allowed Meliodas to blitz and one shot Ban. The crazy thing is that just prior to this, Ban had almost completely drained Mel of his physical stats using his technique Physical Hunt:

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Meliodas was almost completely robbed of his physical abilities, to the point that he collapsed on the ground because he couldn't even hold himself upright. The Demon Mark was able to completely reverse this situation and amp Mel's strength and speed to the point that he blitzed and one shotted Ban, while reduced to a state of near zero. Ban by his lonesome has stats comparable to Meliodas, and yet even while having his base stats stacked by base Meliodas's stats, he got blitzed and one shotted.

Rewinding time a bit back to Galland's first showing of speed, he casually travels from Edinburgh to Camelot in 72 paces:

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Upon inspecting the map of Britannia seen in the Seven Deadly Sins Fanbook, you'll come to see that Camelot is incredibly far away from Edinburgh:

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That little star you see at the bottom of the map is Camelot. For reference, the distance between Liones and Edinburgh is approximately 186 miles, as stated by Merlin herself:

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In order to get a better perspective, I've taken it upon myself to highlight where Liones and Edinburgh are on the map, as well as draw a line from where Edinburgh roughly is to Camelot (Two circles are Liones and Edinburgh):

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As you can see, the distance is enormous. Somewhere in the range of 600 to 700 miles at least, simply from eyeballing it.

To be conservative, we'll go with the low end of 600 miles. Galland crossed that distance in 72 paces, so 600 / 72 = 8.3 miles per step. That's casually Mach 38 for what amounts to basically Galland's walking speed.

Now, i know what you're thinking. "This is travel speed, not combat speed", and Shirso you're absolutely right. However, Galland has feats of utilizing his travel speed in combat and he's kept up with people who have reacted to his jumps on panel, proving his reactions scale to his travel speed.

In this instance, Galland reacts to Merlin's teleportation and instantaneously jumps several miles outside of her sphere of influence, after Merlin had already snapped her fingers:

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This is an absolutely insane showing of speed for multiple reasons. For one, Merlin's spell activation is incredibly fast. She was able to essentially blitz Vivian and repeatedly teleport her all over Britannia before she could do a thing:

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This same Vivian was able to react to Gilthunder's lightning and teleport it before it could travel ten meters or so:

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Gilthunder's lightning is at least hypersonic by virtue of it traveling from cloud to ground in what appears to be a second:

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Based on this Merlin's teleportation speed should be at least hypersonic, but for the sake of argument I'm going to lowball Merlin's teleportation speed all the way down to plain supersonic.

Jumping several miles away before a supersonic spell can activate is at least a high triple digit mach feat, and Galland was casual here. Several people have reacted to Galland's jumps and he's performed actions while jumping, proving his reactions scale to his jumps.

Here, Galland reaches out to grab Ban's soul while jumping and Melascula is able to track him:

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Splits Tarmiel in half with a downwards swing while in motion:

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And reacts to and catches Tarmiel's Ark blast, after Tarmiel explicitly reacts to Galland lunging at him:

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That's three different examples of Galland performing actions while jumping or reacting to the attacks of someone who's reacted to his jumps, proving without a doubt that Galland's reactions do indeed scale to his combat jumps, which are at least triple digit mach.

Even if we massively lowball Vivian's snapping speed to be on par with mine (A regular human male), it'd be around 0.17 seconds. Merlin's teleportation would logically far eclipse that but for the sake of argument I'll only be arguing her teleportation speed at 0.17 seconds from here on out (As in her teleportation will activate 0.17 seconds after she snaps her fingers).

8.3 miles / 0.17 = Mach 229, so even lowballing as much as i possibly can Galland is still irrefutably triple digit mach.

Galland's piercing durability:

For starters, Galland no sells a Lostvayne strike directly to the neck by a serious Meliodas:

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And later on, he no sells a barrage of Lostvayne strikes from Demon Mark Meliodas:

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This is very impressive for multiple reasons, one of those reasons being that Meliodas has some seriously potent cutting power, first showcased when he cut a large hill in half from the air pressure of swinging a twig:

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This is base Meliodas's cutting power with a twig. Lostvayne's cutting power scales massively above a twig, seeing as how a Sacred Treasure draws out the Sins full power, explained here by King:

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This isn't just speculative conjecture either, as Lostvayne has direct feats proving it's striking power >>> regular swords, which in turn >>> twigs.

Here, Meliodas casually chops a giant Albion's arm into pieces with Lostvayne:

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This is noteworthy not only due to the Albion's size (Being around hill sized consistently), but also because they're fairly durable themselves. This same Albion previously no sold multiple direct sword strikes from Meliodas:

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So durable was the Albion in fact that Mel's sword shattered on impact, and yet Lostvayne cut through it like butter. The Albion's durability in of itself should be around multi-city block to town level given the fact that Mel's hill cut was performed via air pressure from swinging a twig, whereas the Albion tanked direct sword strikes from him. I can prove multi-city block to town level cutting power is consistent for this tier as well.

Meliodas was able to cut through Red Demon Hendrickson's darkness arm and overpower him:

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The same Red Demon Hendrickson who a chapter earlier was able to casually counter and no sell Dreyfus's sword strikes:

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This is very impressive, seeing as Drefyus was able to casually block Diane's Ground Gladius:

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The same hill sized Ground Gladius that was able to protrude out of the ground with enough speed and power to surprise Helbram and dispel Gilthunder and Howzer's Dragon Castle:

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A hill sized sword protruding out of the ground at even subsonic speeds would generate quite a large amount of kinetic energy, probably around town level at least. Demon Mark Meliodas is canonically >>> his base self, which in turn scales to this level of cutting power based on feats and direct comparisons. Galland no selling over a dozen strikes from that Meliodas should put his piercing durability at multi-town level at least, which is enough to basically no sell all of Ulq's sword strikes.

Based on these feats alone we can easily conclude that Escanor blitzing Galland and chopping him in half directly scales him to massively hypersonic speed and city level cutting power. The Galland fight didn't even begin to show off Escanor's capabilities however, as Galland ended up running away from Escanor just by him preparing to attack:

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All implications and signs of the scene indicate that this single attack would have obliterated Galland, who just one page earlier performed a mountain level attack. Realistically, Escanor should scale to mountain level+ based on this scene alone and he has other feats and scaling that support that level of power.

Fast forwarding a bit to the Escanor vs Estarossa fight, Escanor tanks multiple punches from Estarossa and drops him to his knees with a single punch through his guard:

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Immediately after this, Escanor withstands having his own axe strikes reflected back at him with more than twice their original power:

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As established in the Galland showing, Escanor has enough physical durability to no sell both the shockwave and the piercing damage of a mountain level attack. He tanked an attack of that level literally without even budging, so for Estarossa to damage him and smack his body around for dozens of meters we can extrapolate that the force of Estarossa's punches far exceed the shockwave of CO Galland's strike, which was mountain level. Estarossa also has a much higher Force level than Galland in verse, and we know that Force is simply a combatant's physical strength put into numerical value. Tanking mountain+ level punches is relevant against Luffy for obvious reasons, as Luffy is a blunt force powerhouse.

This isn't the end of it either, and this next showing here is a in verse example of Escanor's growing strength in a battle.

After being put on the back foot by Estarossa's Full Counter, the time ticks closer to noon and Escanor powers up to the point that he blitzes Estarossa and practically doubles in size:

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Remember, just prior to this Estarossa was fighting releatively on par with Escanor and was rocking mountain+ level power. This single powerup catapulted Escanor a whole tier above Esta, and reduced him to complete fodder.

Something like this would completely shake Luffy. Imagine Luffy fighting Escanor and temporarily overpowering him, only for Escanor to power up and completely reverse the situation with one swift movement? Luffy isn't exactly the brightest fighter, so i doubt he'd be able to deduce that Escanor's growing strength ties in with the time of day and he certainly wouldn't come up with any sort of strategy in character.

The longer this fight goes on, the more inevitable Luffy's defeat becomes. Upon reaching a Combat Class of 114,000, Escanor's stats take another giant leap.

114K Escanor clashed with Assault Mode Meliodas, kept up with him and reacted to his Cruel Sun after it was reflected back at him practically at point blank:

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Two things are noteworthy here, the first being the speed of Escanor's Cruel Sun.

As you yourself know, Escanor's Cruel Sun has an underrated feat of BFR'ing Estarossa and Zeldris out of Monspeet's sensory range in an instant:

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Monspeet has feats like sensing BOS Meliodas from hundreds of miles away:

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Hundreds implies plural, so as a conservative low end I'll be using 200 miles.

The timeframe isn't explicitly stated, but we do know it seemed "sudden" from the perspective of Monspeet and Derieri. Monspeet and Derieri are two MHS fighters themselves, so realistically their perception of "sudden" would be far less than 1 second but for the sake of being conservative I'll be using 1 - 3 seconds as our timeframe.

200 miles / 1 second = Mach 938

200 miles / 2 seconds = Mach 469

200 miles / 3 seconds = Mach 234

Even at it's slowest Escanor's Cruel Sun would be Mach 234, and that's being unreasonably conservative. In all likelihood it's Mach 938+ given Monspeet's comment, so that's the speed at which I'll be arguing it at.

The second thing that's noteworthy is Escanor clashing with and damaging Assault Mode Meliodas with physical strikes. Assault Mode Meliodas scales massively above mountain+ based on CO Galland and Estarossa, and he has very impressive durability feats in weaker incarnations.

With a measly Combat Class of 56K, Meliodas no sells Gloxinia's Basquias and Drole's Giga Fall back to back:

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Gloxinia's Basquias alone created an explosion/shockwave that was comparable to half of Drole's Labyrinth, which was explicitly stated to be almost 8 miles in width:

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And Drole's Giga Fall caused tremors all the way in Liones from Vaizel. Upon inspecting the Britannia map, you'll notice that Vaizel is at least several dozens of miles away from Liones.

Both attacks should be around mountain - multi mountain level and 56K Meliodas tanked them back to back with no serious injuries. AM Meliodas has a Combat Class of 142K so we can assume he's far more durable and adding CO Galland scaling on top of that gives us some very scary results. Based on the evidence I've showcased i think we can come to the conclusion that 114K Escanor's physicals should be around multi-mountain level at least, and that's still not even Escanor's peak.

I'll refrain from posting The One's feats for now, as i feel that's not necessary as you have your hands full with just this version of Escanor.

Countdown To Luffy's Destruction: Sunshine

You knew it was coming, and here it is. Energy projection, the bane of Luffy's existence.

As i mentioned before, Escanor's Magic Power is Sunshine. Sunshine is an incredibly powerful ability that allows Escanor to generate and manipulate tremendous amounts of heat energy, which will be absolutely fatal to Luffy given his notorious lack of showings against powerful energy attacks.

As you know, Escanor's power gradually increases over time until it peaks at noon. This includes his heat output, which has very impressive showings even at his weakest possible incarnation, which is dawn.

For example, he casually burns through Izraf's Black Full Plate and vaporizes him alongside the entire Edinburgh Castle just by saying boom:

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As if turning an entire stone castle to slush with what amounts to his passive heat wasn't impressive enough, Izraf makes a very interesting statement in regards to his armor of darkness.

He mentions that his Black Full Plate is impregnable to the fires of Purgatory, which is quite impressive when looked at in detail. I say this because even absolute fodder like a Red Demon was able to spam Purgatory Fire blasts somewhat comparable to the Fairy Tree:

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The Fairy Tree is a gargantuan tree comparable to mountains in sheer height:

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I'm aware of the arguments that state AOE doesn't automatically translate to potency, and i completely agree. So i won't be arguing these blasts at mountain level but i feel hill level is reasonable given what we've seen Purgatory Fire do before and the fact that it's shown to melt/vaporize everything within it's AOE.

Escanor's AOE passive heat is going to pose a problem to Luffy, as it'll discourage a CQC fight which is literally all Luffy has. Mind you, this is only Escanor's heat/potency at dawn. I repeat, at dawn. I cannot stress enough how much more impressive it makes Escanor's heat later on during the day, as his power canonically improves drastically the closer it gets to noon.

Even at nighttime and using only the stored up energy of Litta, Escanor can release devastating energy attacks. In this instance he almost one shots Drole & Gloxinia with an AOE attack that obliterates half of Diane's Mother Catastrophe boulder:

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Diane's Mother Catastrophe boulder was visually drawn inconsistently throughout this arc but back when it was first by BOS Diane, the boulder was clearly mountain sized:

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A perspective panel shot in the next chapter also portrays it to be mountain sized, so it's illustration when it was first used is consistent:

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I'd chalk up the later drawing inconsistencies as the author forgetting how big he initially drew the boulder, which is understandable since it was over 100 chapters ago. Even if we bring the feat down to simply hill level it's still enough to severely damage Luffy based on his energy durability feats, which says a lot about how difficult this match-up is going to be for you as Escanor isn't even close to his peak here.

I'll settle with posting one last feat for Escanor's heat, that being his Cruel Sun against Estarossa which instantaneously vaporized a decent sized lake:

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A concentrated ball of heat energy powerful enough to instantly evaporate a lake would severely damage, if not outright kill Luffy if I'm remembering his energy durability feats correctly, and I'm pretty sure i am.

Countdown: Summary

I think I've established a few basic things you'll have to watch out for, that mainly being:

  • Escanor's impressive stats. He's at least comparable to Luffy in physical might and his Cruel Sun feat is quantifiably faster than most, if not all of Luffy's speed feats.
  • Escanor's insane heat. Escanor can passively turn stone castles to slush at dawn and he can evaporate lakes with nonchalant Cruel Sun's. Luffy's track records against energy attacks has never been great and his durability feats in general are lacking against said attacks.
  • The time limit. Luffy only has 1 single hour to defeat Escanor, and he doesn't know that. Escanor's ever increasing power relative to the time of day is something he can always rely on if he's potentially put on the backfoot.

That's it for now. Sorry about wait, i never have much time on the computer lol.

@shirso@deathhero61@faradaysloth@defiant_will@blackpantherisb@almightyamortal@kingzod@leothegreatest@hittheassasin@worldofruin6@hollowbutterfly@raw_ability

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#19 Posted by Consciouskeeper (2491 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3628 posts) - - Show Bio

👍👍👍👍👍

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#21 Edited by Darthjhawk (5595 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by blackpantherisb (7266 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#23 Posted by FaradaySloth (10089 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice post.

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#24 Posted by Kalebsmarty156 (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy

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#25 Posted by KingZod (4014 posts) - - Show Bio

Noice

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#26 Posted by shirso (4471 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#27 Posted by vsw (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

bump

I thought this was cancelled due to an overlap in arguments from your last match?

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#28 Posted by shirso (4471 posts) - - Show Bio