VS
No Mind Control from Flagg.
Death or KO.
Start 100 feet apart in a forest.
CaV: Empressofdread (Live Action Dumbledore) vs Sirfizzwhixzz (Live Action Randall Flagg) VOTING OPEN
Alright lets kick this off with some info and opening arguments. Meet Randal Flagg.
The Walking Dude, Walter O Dim, Marten Broadcloak, Man in Black, The Devil, whatever you call him Randall Flagg is one of the best villains in all Stephen King fiction. A universe hopping sorcerer who causes chaos wherever he walks. he is a powerful psychic and powerful magician. Using supernatural powers and psychic powers in tandem to meet his goals of causing chaos.
So what powers does Flagg have? Well alot in novels and comics, but we are talking strictly live action versions. In this case Dark Tower movie and The Stand miniseries. In these films Flagg has shown many abilities still.
- Electricity Attacks
- Fire Attacks
- Telepathy (Banned)
- Transmutation
- Telekenisis
- Super Speed
As well others. So lets start off with what Flagg would do off the bat. Electricity and Fire attacks.
Fire
Lightning
While most of these are close range base, the Electricity one is range, and these abilities show how deadly Flagg can be if he at any time gets his hands on Dumbledore. Something possible given his transmuation power of turning into Raven to get into peoples face or to get around with great speed.
Raven Form
Flagg is able to transform in super fast speeds, and uses this form to get into peoples faces. This is my opening argument, so feel free to counter.
Lets get this started.
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Brief Intro: Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore
Dumbledore is the Headmaster of Hogwarts school of witchcraft and wizardry. Dumbledore was a teacher of Tom Riddle the Dark Lord himself. As seen in the movie Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets in a flash back scene.
Dumbledore is easily one of the best Wizards of all time and in the right way even above the Dark Lord himself who feared Dumbledore. Dumbledore just like Harry, Hermoinie and Ron did not fear him, and had no trouble mentioning his name even in front of the Ministry of Magic. Throughout the movies Dumbledore has been displayed as a very powerful magician and the reason why Hogwarts remains safe even after all the Dark Lords obsessive attempts in taking over.
I think it is safe to say Dumbledore is much better than Harry potter in magical prowess and even better than the "you know who". Dumbledore is continued to be considered as the best wizard ever in the Harry Potter lore. One of the reasons why Harry won the final battle against Voldermort was due to the complicated relationship between them. ( I can elaborate more on that if you want). Bottom line is in terms of pure magical prowess Dumbledore wins. Harry will be known more for his courage, selflessness and pure determination rather than magical skills.
He carries the Elder Wand which is the most powerful wand in the wizarding history. Is very intelligent in general and this is shown in the movies that he is way ahead of everyone else on what is going around Hogwarts and the world of Magic.
I think this is it for the Intro part. My main message with the intro is that Dumbledore is much above Harry and even above the Dark Lord in terms of pure magical knowledge.
Spells, feats and abilities
Dumbledore can both offensive and defensive spells, there are a wide variety of spells Dumbledore can use and he has shown the ability to case at least the basic spells without having to use the wand.
Dumbledore casts a spell to make food appear for everyone at the table and changes the colour of all the house flags.
He was able to save Harry falling from off his Broomstick by slowing his momentum down without needing a wand.
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Dumbledore and start off with strong spells yet handy-dandy and although Dumbledore never uses the unforgivable curses in character but if push comes to shove he can use such spells for survival.
Full Body bind curse - Dumbledore can start by using this spell to bind him and then KO him.
Stupefy - Stun spell can be very effective in knocking one out. Dumbledore wont make any mistake in using this considering his years of experience. This is one of the things that will get him the win.
Rictusempra : Knocks back a target. I am attacking scans of the movie as well just to be clear it was actually this spell that Harry used on Malfoy although expelliarmus also knocked some opponents back but it is not as effective as this.
Reducto: Reduces even objects of metals into mere pieces.
Finite Incantatem - It is a spell used to counter the spell put on or used by another wizard. It can also take away the effects of existing magic on an object.
Transfiguration :Dumbledore can also transform him into an animal like Moody did to Malfoy until later on McGonagall asks him to remove the spell and tells him they are not supposed to use transfiguration spells on children.
Everte Statum: Another spell that sends opponent flying back.
Apart from all these Dumbledore can also use Unforgivable curses as a last resort. He has never killed anyone using Avada Kedavra but it is implied that he can if he wants to.
There are three Unforgivable Curses -
Killing Curse (Avada Kedavra), Cruciatus Cure (Crucio), and Imperius Curse (Imperio). They can kill a person, torture and cause pain and take complete control over a person respectively.
I will list out some defensive spells also.
Protego: Protective shield that can be used against both physical and magical attacks, in the movie Harry was able to reverse a spell of mind intrusion Snape was going to use on him and the outcome was Harry entering the mind of Severus Snape (Harry potter and the order of phoenix).
Diminuendo: Causes objects to shrink in size. Can be used as a hax too.
Dumbledore can also use Telekinesis to control things such as water and was temporarily able to drown Voldemort in it till he broke out of it using his a spell of his own.
Even Ron in first movie Philosopher's stone cast the Levitation Charm to disarm the troll.
Counters
If Flag is going to come at Dumbledore as a Raven he could just Levicorpus spell to send him flying away
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Flagg needs to be close range to ignite the fire. Dumbledore can do it from distance using his wand and Voldemort created a huge fire snake Dumbledore just transformed it into ordinary fire, controlled it and sent it back at Voldemort.
Now that the opening posts are up I hope we can get into counters.
@empressofdread: Alright, Alright, Alright as the Man in Black would say. Game on.
Spells, feats and abilities
Dumbledore can both offensive and defensive spells, there are a wide variety of spells Dumbledore can use and he has shown the ability to case at least the basic spells without having to use the wand.
Dumbledore casts a spell to make food appear for everyone at the table and changes the colour of all the house flags.
Transmutation. Its a neat trick and one Flagg knows all to well himself.
Flagg turns a Zippo lighter into a necklace.
Flagg turns a stone into a key for the jail cell in the novel, comic, and miniseries of the same feat. The Stand There is also the feats of Flagg turning himself into a crow. Even better is Randal has a transmutation trick he can pull off in a battle. but I will save that feat for the time is right.
He was able to save Harry falling from off his Broomstick by slowing his momentum down without needing a wand.
All Telekinesis like spells. I will touch on this later in my post as in the end this is Flagg's specialty.
Dumbledore and start off with strong spells yet handy-dandy and although Dumbledore never uses the unforgivable curses in character but if push comes to shove he can use such spells for survival.
Full Body bind curse - Dumbledore can start by using this spell to bind him and then KO him.
Stupefy - Stun spell can be very effective in knocking one out. Dumbledore wont make any mistake in using this considering his years of experience. This is one of the things that will get him the win.
Thats a good curse. only weakness is the spell has to hit Flagg. This is a huge issue due to Flaggs speeds.
In short, Flagg is bullet speed, and can easily react and counter any spell with his own which makes this hard for Dumbledore. Dumbledore has more spells and such, but what Flagg has works and his speed stats is going to overwhelm.
Rictusempra : Knocks back a target. I am attacking scans of the movie as well just to be clear it was actually this spell that Harry used on Malfoy although expelliarmus also knocked some opponents back but it is not as effective as this.
More TK attacks which I will cover soon.
Reducto: Reduces even objects of metals into mere pieces.
Not sure how this is factoring in. Its not use to kill people so I dont see why this spell matters.
Finite Incantatem - It is a spell used to counter the spell put on or used by another wizard. It can also take away the effects of existing magic on an object.
Only thing this will be useful for is the lightning ball attack. Granted that will be of some help vs that form of attack. TK objects hurled at high speeds will not be easily avoided.
Transfiguration :Dumbledore can also transform him into an animal like Moody did to Malfoy until later on McGonagall asks him to remove the spell and tells him they are not supposed to use transfiguration spells on children.
This is a damn good spell, but useless on Flagg who can shape shift anyway. He can turn into animals, and transform himself in a monster forms and back.
So not seeing this working.
Everte Statum: Another spell that sends opponent flying back.
More TK.
Apart from all these Dumbledore can also use Unforgivable curses as a last resort. He has never killed anyone using Avada Kedavra but it is implied that he can if he wants to.
There are three Unforgivable Curses -
Killing Curse (Avada Kedavra), Cruciatus Cure (Crucio), and Imperius Curse (Imperio). They can kill a person, torture and cause pain and take complete control over a person respectively.
I will list out some defensive spells also.
All the killing curses. Good stuff but limited in one major way. They must hit the target. Flagg can defend from this pretty well. he has used his TK to rip up rubble and whatever is around him to be his force field. Lets start talking TK attacks.
Telekinesis
As counter point to your spells, Flagg can react as fast as bullets to drag a force field of objects to tank the spell attacks sent his way. Then he can counter with TK.
This is the incredible and devastating forms of attack Flagg brings to the table, and even tags Roland Deschain, a near bullet timer himself.
Protego: Protective shield that can be used against both physical and magical attacks, in the movie Harry was able to reverse a spell of mind intrusion Snape was going to use on him and the outcome was Harry entering the mind of Severus Snape (Harry potter and the order of phoenix).
Dumbledore lays waste thousands of pieces of glass thrown at him by the Dark Lord.
This will be Dumbledors saving grace against the massive amount of projectiles sent his way, and even then he has to speak the words to do it. Against someone as fast as Flagg that be hard to keep up.
Diminuendo: Causes objects to shrink in size. Can be used as a hax too.
Neat.
Dumbledore can also use Telekinesis to control things such as water and was temporarily able to drown Voldemort in it till he broke out of it using his a spell of his own.
Even Ron in first movie Philosopher's stone cast the Levitation Charm to disarm the troll.
I still think Flagg's TK is way better, and higher end. He is able to manipulate things faster speeds and of decent weight. using glass, metal, and concrete as weapons to stab and blunt damage. Able to flick bullets at bullet speeds even.
Counters
If Flag is going to come at Dumbledore as a Raven he could just Levicorpus spell to send him flying away
Flagg needs to be close range to ignite the fire. Dumbledore can do it from distance using his wand and Voldemort created a huge fire snake Dumbledore just transformed it into ordinary fire, controlled it and sent it back at Voldemort.
Here is Granger using Incendio to set Snapes cap on fire.
It can work from distance as well.
Now that the opening posts are up I hope we can get into counters.
I agree. Fire is only a option in close combat though. Same for Electricity. Flagg can possibly close the distance in this fight and one touch win. Your problem with the fire spell reverse on Flagg is Flagg manipulates fire to the point he is immune to it.
So even if Dumbledore tries a fire redirect or approach, Flagg will walk right through it. Then close the distance to boil Dumbledore with a touch.
Only if he gets close. Flagg will be able to resort to his TK attacks for most of the fight. Should you transform him into a animal, he changes back. One other useful move Flagg can do is summon vermin to attack Dumbledore out of thin air.
A move he has use many times in the novels and comics, and even in the movie seen above. A great distraction to further slow Dumbledore down for a win for Flagg.
Arguments So Far
- Lightning will be useless for Flagg, but fire is viable as he can surprise Dumbledore and close in for a one touch kill.
- Flagg is overall faster to react and block any range spell coming his way.
- Shapeshifting makes the shapeshifting curses useless on Flagg.
- Transmutation is something Flagg can do and do better for battle purposes which I will touch on next post.
- TK for Flagg is overall still a better option of attack.
- Flagg can distract Dumbledore with vermin to help close in that distance. More so with a combo of Vermin and Crow form.
Overall I see Flagg taking this fight and celebrate with a snide remark after the fight is done.
Transmutation. Its a neat trick and one Flagg knows all to well himself.
Flagg turns a Zippo lighter into a necklace.
Flagg turns a stone into a key for the jail cell in the novel, comic, and miniseries of the same feat. The Stand There is also the feats of Flagg turning himself into a crow. Even better is Randal has a transmutation trick he can pull off in a battle. but I will save that feat for the time is right.
I do not see how the transmutation feats you have shown compare to Dumbledore's feats. In my first most I just showed you Dumbledore presenting food on top of the table in the Hogwarts hall that is a lot. Also Dumbledore did it in a snap without using his wand something to consider. He also changed the color of all the flags.
Flagg is able to TK concrete from the floor and block Roland's bullets, after Roland already draw and fired his guns.
Sure these concrete blocks will be able to defend against Weaker spells but not one like Reducto which can disintegrate large metal objects the size of a large humanoid.
Flagg catches a bullet fired at the back of his head without looking.
Flagg catches multiple ricochet bullets with his hands.
It is still a great showing of speed but Dumbledore has got AOE attacks and that will lead to confuse him or stagger him back. Leading for Dumbledore to cast any one of his powerful spells. Although I do not think he can catch spells since it would hurt him and KO him. Given the location is a forest I do not see how he will be able to TK defend himself using concrete blocks.
In short, Flagg is bullet speed, and can easily react and counter any spell with his own which makes this hard for Dumbledore. Dumbledore has more spells and such, but what Flagg has works and his speed stats is going to overwhelm.
Flag has bullet speed reflexes but how is catching bullets going to help with catching spells. If he tried to do deflect any of the spells by a mistake that will be his last one.
Not sure how this is factoring in. Its not use to kill people so I dont see why this spell matters.
It can duce large solid objects to dust how is it not useful ? It can reduce any sort of concrete Flagg could be using as shields.
Only thing this will be useful for is the lightning ball attack. Granted that will be of some help vs that form of attack. TK objects hurled at high speeds will not be easily avoided.
Given the location how fast and if ever Flagg has thrown objects using TK. Dumbledore has defended himself from TK objects before and likely will do it again.
This is a damn good spell, but useless on Flagg who can shape shift anyway. He can turn into animals, and transform himself in a monster forms and back.
Ok.
All the killing curses. Good stuff but limited in one major way. They must hit the target. Flagg can defend from this pretty well. he has used his TK to rip up rubble and whatever is around him to be his force field. Lets start talking TK attacks.
I knew it would come down to this. Well however I will be covering AOE attacks as well that will likely give him the advantage. I'll post scans further into this post.
Flagg hurling hundreds of pounds of steel and collapsing the second floor onto Roland.
Given that the location is a jungle I do not see him defending himself with concrete blocks of all things. While in the scans you have shared he is able to bullet time but the concrete floor falling is not at bullet speed and that can be reduced using Reducto spell Diminuendo spell so it wont hurt him.
Also one point here that Flagg is capable of bullet timing but it wont do any good against Dumbledore's AOE attacks as will be showing later on. Because he is only able to catch bullets with focus on and once distracted he can be taken down. Like here in this instance while.
This will be Dumbledors saving grace against the massive amount of projectiles sent his way, and even then he has to speak the words to do it. Against someone as fast as Flagg that be hard to keep up.
Dumbledore actually does not need to speak the words. I think I covered it in my previous post that such basic spells he can cast without needing to murmur. Here the fight against Dumbledore he actually does not say a word to bring those shields up. The shield came up right before the glass shards touch it. The shield covers entire area of his body and more he just needs to open it.
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I still think Flagg's TK is way better, and higher end. He is able to manipulate things faster speeds and of decent weight. using glass, metal, and concrete as weapons to stab and blunt damage. Able to flick bullets at bullet speeds even.
Flaggs TK is better speed wise. But Dumbledore is able to control fire with his TK, Water to the point he was drowning Voldemort in it. I do not see any reason why Flagg will break out of it. under such circumstances as well I give Flagg has better speed with his TK though.
So even if Dumbledore tries a fire redirect or approach, Flagg will walk right through it. Then close the distance to boil Dumbledore with a touch.
He is waling through one lard flame no reason to believe he can see through fire. However this is no ordinary fire Dumbledore will be brewing up. Its from the most powerful magical and who yields the elder wand.
For the record Dumbledore's fire covers a very large distance at the same time he casts the spell without much trouble. Note it that Dumbledore was actually weakened here.
Flagg summons rats to swarm a person.
I do not see how Rats are going to do anything. I also do not understand how that guy is running away from those Rats. Dumbledore can use Immobulous or AOE stun spells on the rats.
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Here is Harry using another AOE stun spell.
Counters
Lightning will be useless for Flagg, but fire is viable as he can surprise Dumbledore and close in for a one touch kill.
I do not see how fire will help since Dumbledore is able to manipulate fire himself.
Flagg is overall faster to react and block any range spell coming his way.
I do not think he can block all the spells. Infact Dumbledore can put distance in between them and then use his AOE attacks to stagger him. Then proceed with KO or Kill using his more powerful spells.
How will Dumbledore attack against Flaggs defensive ability of shields fast enough to deflects bullets? Luckily he can use Apparition.
Shapeshifting makes the shapeshifting curses useless on Flagg.
Fair enough.
Transmutation is something Flagg can do and do better for battle purposes which I will touch on next post.
Well as of now. Dumbledore Transmutation is much better.
TK for Flagg is overall still a better option of attack.
I see him using it Defensively mostly. Given the location I do not see him attacking with small objects at all. Best he could do is throw some pebbles at him or few bushes. But that wont work because Dumbledore has his shields.
Flagg can distract Dumbledore with vermin to help close in that distance. More so with a combo of Vermin and Crow form.
Honestly Vermin are not going to do anything here. Crow form is a minor disturbance Dumbledore can use fire manipulation to set the crow on fire use the AOE stun spells such as immobulous. Dumbledore still has escape route for such techniques using teleportation and his travel speeds in air.
Why Dumbledore will win
Dumbledore has more versatility here, he has a wider array of spells combined by his powerful elder wand. He has good travel speed and teleportation to put distance in between them given the location Dumbledore can use AOE attacks like fire and stun spells to create a major annoyance for Flagg and then KO him of Kill him.
I do not see how the transmutation feats you have shown compare to Dumbledore's feats. In my first most I just showed you Dumbledore presenting food on top of the table in the Hogwarts hall that is a lot. Also Dumbledore did it in a snap without using his wand something to consider. He also changed the color of all the flags.
You showed Dumbledore possibly using prep and specific spell to do such a feat. You also showed a feat that has nothing to do with battle related conditions. Just as I showed Flagg doing the same except there was this one time Flagg use transmutation in a fight. I will bring it up now. one of the major reasons Flagg should win is he can and has in the past turn a enemies weapon into a banana.
Flagg turns a knife into a banana in the novel, comic, and series of the same feat. Does this super fast too with little time to react. He can easily do the same to Dumbledor's wand, making the wizard powerless at that point. So unless Dumbledore has battle related feats of transmutation, I dont see why it matters.
Sure these concrete blocks will be able to defend against Weaker spells but not one like Reducto which can disintegrate large metal objects the size of a large humanoid.
Sure it will. The spell hits the block and it disintegrates, and Flagg replaces said block with more. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
It is still a great showing of speed but Dumbledore has got AOE attacks and that will lead to confuse him or stagger him back. Leading for Dumbledore to cast any one of his powerful spells. Although I do not think he can catch spells since it would hurt him and KO him. Given the location is a forest I do not see how he will be able to TK defend himself using concrete blocks.
Concrete Blocks... reads OP again.... oh my bad we are in a forest. Mixing up my CaVs now. I have 4 of them going now. Replace Concrete with Wood. Flagg has TK Glass Shards, Concrete Blocks, Steel, and Wooden Handle Fire Axe. he can Tk what he wants and busted up trees, wooden debris, or stones will all work fine for the purpose of this.
Flag has bullet speed reflexes but how is catching bullets going to help with catching spells. If he tried to do deflect any of the spells by a mistake that will be his last one.
The Spells are so slow compared to bullets. Easy to see, and block via TK. thats the point.
It can duce large solid objects to dust how is it not useful ? It can reduce any sort of concrete Flagg could be using as shields.
Wood or stones now, but yeah, it will reduce them to nothing. But then there is a whole forest of materials to work with and Flagg can easily counter attack with thrown wooden projectiles to stab and maim Dumbledore as he is physically shouting spells out.
Given the location how fast and if ever Flagg has thrown objects using TK. Dumbledore has defended himself from TK objects before and likely will do it again.
Unless Dumbledore is using TK shields the whole fight and not casting any other spell, its a matter of Flagg who can use multiple spells with a thought will eventually get one in. More so with rats gnawing on Gandalf too.
I knew it would come down to this. Well however I will be covering AOE attacks as well that will likely give him the advantage. I'll post scans further into this post.
Ok.
Given that the location is a jungle I do not see him defending himself with concrete blocks of all things. While in the scans you have shared he is able to bullet time but the concrete floor falling is not at bullet speed and that can be reduced using Reducto spell Diminuendo spell so it wont hurt him.
Now we are arguing stones and wood for materials.
Also one point here that Flagg is capable of bullet timing but it wont do any good against Dumbledore's AOE attacks as will be showing later on. Because he is only able to catch bullets with focus on and once distracted he can be taken down. Like here in this instance while.
Very true. However big difference between Dumbledore and Roland. One, Roland is near immune to the direct magic of Flagg. Dumbledore is not. Two, Roland is faster than Dumbledore by alot, and has bullet speed projectiles unlike Dumbledore. So I dont see Dumbledore pulling that off on Flagg as easy.
Dumbledore actually does not need to speak the words. I think I covered it in my previous post that such basic spells he can cast without needing to murmur. Here the fight against Dumbledore he actually does not say a word to bring those shields up. The shield came up right before the glass shards touch it. The shield covers entire area of his body and more he just needs to open it.
Ah ok. that helps a bit to make this more fair. He will need this shield alot then, but Flagg still has a few more major tricks.
Flaggs TK is better speed wise. But Dumbledore is able to control fire with his TK, Water to the point he was drowning Voldemort in it. I do not see any reason why Flagg will break out of it. under such circumstances as well I give Flagg has better speed with his TK though.
I see Flagg breaking out fine. The weight he shown is more than comparable to what Dumbledore showed with water. Not to mention Dumbledore must focus on TK on Flagg to "Drown" him. Meanwhile Flagg with a thought and hand wave can drop a 200+ pound tree limb on the wizards head. To me that is better.
He is waling through one lard flame no reason to believe he can see through fire. However this is no ordinary fire Dumbledore will be brewing up. Its from the most powerful magical and who yields the elder wand.
For the record Dumbledore's fire covers a very large distance at the same time he casts the spell without much trouble. Note it that Dumbledore was actually weakened here.
Unless the magical fire has feats proving its many times hotter than the raging barn fire Flagg walks through, I dont see why it matters.
I do not see how Rats are going to do anything. I also do not understand how that guy is running away from those Rats. Dumbledore can use Immobulous or AOE stun spells on the rats.
Here is Harry using another AOE stun spell.
You can run from the rats fine or stun them. In turn they did there job. Distraction. The time or thought to deal with them is one less precious second dealing with Flagg's attacks.
Counters
I do not see how fire will help since Dumbledore is able to manipulate fire himself.
Agreed. Unless he touches Dumbledore. Dumbledore only can manipulate fire from distance not already burning him to cinders ia touch.
I do not think he can block all the spells. Infact Dumbledore can put distance in between them and then use his AOE attacks to stagger him. Then proceed with KO or Kill using his more powerful spells.
AOE sounds easier than done. While he may knock Flagg down or stun him like Roladn did, Flagg was instantly back on his feet and fighting against the Gunslinger. Same scenario here. Flagg would then counter AOE spells by hurling bullet speeds projectiles at it to set it off early.
How will Dumbledore attack against Flaggs defensive ability of shields fast enough to deflects bullets? Luckily he can use Apparition.
Wizards both from the Order as well as the Death Eaters have shown ability to travel in air at great speeds and then cast spells as well.
this is a neat trick but still slow in comparison to what Flagg can react. I also feel this makes Dumbledore easier target as Flagg can now scatter shrap wooden debrie in the air like he does these shards of glass.
So much shrapnel that even super human in speed Roland could not deal with it.
Well as of now. Dumbledore Transmutation is much better.
As I said, unless the wand had transmutation resistance, I can see Flagg turning it into something else for a laugh if the fight plays out long enough.
I see him using it Defensively mostly. Given the location I do not see him attacking with small objects at all. Best he could do is throw some pebbles at him or few bushes. But that wont work because Dumbledore has his shields.
Tons of wooden debris to use. Like a hurricane ripping through a forest the high speeds splinters or sticks can all be lethal and maiming. Not only this, but Flagg has shown one more ability with TK for attacks. Heart attacks.
Flagg kills a deer with a gun gesture via TK his hands.
Flagg crushes the heart of this man with a gesture.
He can easily catch Dumbledore off guard with this hand gesture and kill the wizard off the bat.
Honestly Vermin are not going to do anything here. Crow form is a minor disturbance Dumbledore can use fire manipulation to set the crow on fire use the AOE stun spells such as immobulous. Dumbledore still has escape route for such techniques using teleportation and his travel speeds in air.
Corw form is a huge factor as Flagg can close a distance or use the trees as cover in said form to close the distance. Vermin is a huge help as they will distract and cause Dumbledore to lose focus. Making the TK attacks with debris or heart attacks a major kill shot. With Crow form to close the distance via cover from the forest Flagg can pop behind Dumbledore with utter silence as he has many others in the films, and one touch roast Gandalf.
Final Thoughts
- I feel the vermin will do the job of distraction. The Crow form can close the distance for the lethal hand touches.
- Flaggs TK of debris makes for a perfect shield to intercept the spell projectiles to block them and their effects.
- TK attacks in shrapnel of debries and heart attacks is hard to counter for Dumbledore unless he is using his shield constantly.
- The Transmutation spells wont work on Flagg or vice versa, but Flagg could turn the Elder Wand into a Banana and that be GG.
So in the end, I feel the Walking Dude will defeat the great wizard, and run Hogwarts like a XXX Strip Club till the end of days. Partying it up thanks to his great powers even without TP.
Its good to be king.
Counters
You showed Dumbledore possibly using prep and specific spell to do such a feat. You also showed a feat that has nothing to do with battle related conditions. Just as I showed Flagg doing the same except there was this one time Flagg use transmutation in a fight. I will bring it up now. one of the major reasons Flagg should win is he can and has in the past turn a enemies weapon into a banana.
Dumbledore's transmutation works on a much larger distance and he does it way faster. He (Flagg) was able to do it on contact. Just like in your gifs.
Flagg turns a knife into a banana in the novel, comic, and series of the same feat. Does this super fast too with little time to react. He can easily do the same to Dumbledor's wand, making the wizard powerless at that point. So unless Dumbledore has battle related feats of transmutation, I dont see why it matters.
Turning you into a Rat is a battle related transmutation thats why I mentioned it. Also Dumbledore’s wand is a far superior magical weapon not a house knife he would not be able to do it over the top of the fact I do not see it working at this distance. Novel and comic feats are not to be used here.
Sure it will. The spell hits the block and it disintegrates, and Flagg replaces said block with more. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
Concrete Blocks... reads OP again.... oh my bad we are in a forest. Mixing up my CaVs now. I have 4 of them going now. Replace Concrete with Wood. Flagg has TK Glass Shards, Concrete Blocks, Steel, and Wooden Handle Fire Axe. he can Tk what he wants and busted up trees, wooden debris, or stones will all work fine for the purpose of this.
Hey. So you finally checked the OP? Remember you are the one who made it! :D Anyway, It will take him a lot of time to start using trees he is not throwing such objects at high speeds. Its not like Dumbledore is gonna wait and see him rip out and throw some stuff at him. He gets on with his attacks he can teleport behind him and use a stun spell. Sure, he has TK but by the time he does that he will already be getting spammed out with spells. Let’s consider even if he throws a large log or two at Dumbledore he will just reduce it to powder using reducto or incinerate them.
The Spells are so slow compared to bullets. Easy to see, and block via TK. thats the point.
Spells are slow but they are still blur speed and cover quite the distance in short amount of time. But they are no bullets. However its not like he is gonna block via TK since there are not readily available blocks of concrete here like he had in the instances you showed. Pebbles wont be able to block the spells. If he in character decides to block the spell with his hand thats game over right there. He was defending himself from bullets which would hurt him. He has no idea here how the spells will effect him.
Wood or stones now, but yeah, it will reduce them to nothing. But then there is a whole forest of materials to work with and Flagg can easily counter attack with thrown wooden projectiles to stab and maim Dumbledore as he is physically shouting spells out.
Throwing projectiles which would be not of concrete. Dumbledore can use his shields like I have shown to protect against smaller projectiles. He can reduce them using reducto spells or call a fire lasso to get rid of all the small projectiles once again an AOE attack. So wood and stones projectiles are out of the question.
Here is Dumbledore while being extremely weak creating a magical fire lasso.
Unless Dumbledore is using TK shields the whole fight and not casting any other spell, its a matter of Flagg who can use multiple spells with a thought will eventually get one in. More so with rats gnawing on Gandalf too.
Wait wait. Dumbledore will use the shields to protect himself from small projectiles its not like Flagg is always going to use throw projectile, both will have to change their strategy. Rats gnawing on Gandalf? Dumbledore will just teleport himself to behind Flagg and stuns him. I seriously do not see how Rats will be a problem. Immobulus and AOE stun spells should take care of that. See the video on how it works I have posted it. All the pixies in the whole classroom were immobilised.
Now we are arguing stones and wood for materials.
Good. Since the concrete blocks were too readily available Flagg will have to find the stones in the forest. He can find some but will run out of it. But its not like he is going to gather enough of them. They will be scattered across the forest unless he is going to scour the forest for such things he will have to use the ones available on sight. The whole reason he had concrete blocks and a lot of them he was able to perform the counter to the bullets and wood which should be plenty but bound to the trees btw. Not that these are going to defend from AOE attacks.
Very true. However big difference between Dumbledore and Roland. One, Roland is near immune to the direct magic of Flagg. Dumbledore is not. Two, Roland is faster than Dumbledore by alot, and has bullet speed projectiles unlike Dumbledore. So I dont see Dumbledore pulling that off on Flagg as easy.
Roland is faster. But I do not see how Flagg escaping AOE attacks have anything to do with it. He is able to react to bullets but he is able to use his TK and reflexes for protection. He cannot leap or jump out of the area. Thats how AOE attacks work my friend.
Ah ok. that helps a bit to make this more fair. He will need this shield alot then, but Flagg still has a few more major tricks.
Ok.
I see Flagg breaking out fine. The weight he shown is more than comparable to what Dumbledore showed with water. Not to mention Dumbledore must focus on TK on Flagg to "Drown" him. Meanwhile Flagg with a thought and hand wave can drop a 200+ pound tree limb on the wizards head. To me that is better.
That’s where Dumbledore’s teleportation comes into play. Also, I do not see any reason to think that Flagg can TK down a tree while Dumbledore is drowning him in water. Sure Dumbledore needs to focus his TK but its not like Flagg does not need to concentrate he too needs to make a hand gesture and Dumbledore needs to make a wand gesture not too much difference. But anyway if the water thing does not work the magical fire lasso is a tasty technique as always.
Unless the magical fire has feats proving its many times hotter than the raging barn fire Flagg walks through, I dont see why it matters.
Sure Magical fire indeed has feats. Its hotter and even works under water.
You can run from the rats fine or stun them. In turn they did there job. Distraction. The time or thought to deal with them is one less precious second dealing with Flagg's attacks.
I already explained this. Rats are not trouble at all. They all get wiped out with the fire lasso or the AOE stun spell or immobulus or Dumbledore simply teleport. This is not even a minor annoyance.
Agreed. Unless he touches Dumbledore. Dumbledore only can manipulate fire from distance not already burning him to cinders ia touch.
Ok.
Ultra Mega Super Counters
AOE sounds easier than done. While he may knock Flagg down or stun him like Roladn did, Flagg was instantly back on his feet and fighting against the Gunslinger. Same scenario here. Flagg would then counter AOE spells by hurling bullet speeds projectiles at it to set it off early.
AOE attacks cover a large area and have a stun effect and immobilise everything withing the vicinity. How is throwing projectiles gonna help. He has to move our of the area to evade the attack.
Area of effect attacks work like that. Dumbledore can put the distance between them just to speak. He is not gonna get back on his feet after being stunned or frozen now.
this is a neat trick but still slow in comparison to what Flagg can react. I also feel this makes Dumbledore easier target as Flagg can now scatter shrap wooden debrie in the air like he does these shards of glass.
You know that the Forest does not contains sharp wooden debris. It does have debris. But the twigs aint gonna get sharper just for your convenience.
I do not see how he we will find the sharp wooden debris. Debris is fine. But just that it can be blocked or incinerated. For small bothersome projectiles like pebbles and stones and twigs he could counter them with his shields.
Or use teleportation.
So much shrapnel that even super human in speed Roland could not deal with it.
If only he had shields he could get them up. Also he could have evaded them but he was trying to attack and defend at the same time due to the situation at hand.
As I said, unless the wand had transmutation resistance, I can see Flagg turning it into something else for a laugh if the fight plays out long enough.
While Dumbledore is attacking him with all that hes got he is having his hands full. His transmutation is weaker in comparison to Dumbledore's with the wan anyway.
Wand is a very powerful connection to the user with Dumbledore having transmutation feats himself. Something as powerful as elder wand and being magical. Flagg has feats for turning a kitchen knife into a Banana. While at kissing distance.
Tons of wooden debris to use. Like a hurricane ripping through a forest the high speeds splinters or sticks can all be lethal and maiming. Not only this, but Flagg has shown one more ability with TK for attacks. Heart attacks.
I do not think he created anything close to a hurricane of debris in the movie. Where the debris was available in plenty. I just do not see mustering it up in the forest. Moreover, Like Voldemort did attack using Glass shards. Dumbledore countered it using his shields. He could use teleportation to evade out of the attack by thinking.
Flagg crushes the heart of this man with a gesture.
Flagg kills a deer with a gun gesture via TK his hands.
The Deer one is not impressive since the Deer is not aware of Flagg or defending himself. However the TK given to the man is. Which season and episode is this from?
Also I do not think he can tag moving fast moving objects using TK. Dumbledore could use teleportation or the AOE attacks as shown.
Travelling around in circles and casting major offensive spells any of them landed we both know its game over for Flagg.
He can easily catch Dumbledore off guard with this hand gesture and kill the wizard off the bat.
Dumbledore can just teleport behind him and use Killing curse. Both require to use their most offensive ability right out of the bat. However its more likely that Dumbledore uses AOE attacks to win via KO or use the fire lasso as a first resort.
Dumbledore can then use the Confundus charm. See how it works across large distance without any problems to hit the target at all. It just works like a charm. It can confuse Flagg enough to stagger him and then Dumbledore proceeds with a stun spell.
Corw form is a huge factor as Flagg can close a distance or use the trees as cover in said form to close the distance. Vermin is a huge help as they will distract and cause Dumbledore to lose focus. Making the TK attacks with debris or heart attacks a major kill shot. With Crow form to close the distance via cover from the forest Flagg can pop behind Dumbledore with utter silence as he has many others in the films, and one touch roast Gandalf.
Vermin are not going to be bothering at all as already explained. Something that makes you loose focus ? I shared you the Confundus charm a spell which specifically does that and see how it works. Heart attacks take time and they are kill of the bat right. Dumbledore can teleport behind and use the killing curse as well. This is all considering he gets past the old mans AOE attacks. Dumbledore can move and then cast spells just like here.
Conclusion
- Vermin are absolutely useless.
- Smaller debris which is readily available can be countered using shields, not that its getting part fire lasso our AOE attacks.
- Heart attack worked on a human he was pretty helpless and was not attacking. Dumbledore is going to be using his AOE attacks. If we are talking about kill right of the bat. Dumbledore can teleport and use Killing curse right of the bat or use Cruciatus Curse or Imperius curse curse. All of them result in a perfect victory for Dumbledore.
- Transmutation wont work on Elder Wand. Its Elder Wand and given by "The Death" himself as a wish. Its potency is very high level of magic. Flagg was able to turn a kitchen knife period. He needs to get close to do anything while Dumbledore can win via AOE attacks alone. Dumbledore has done Wandless transmutation on his own at greater distance and effected more mass.
Dumbledore will win and show that he is the boss in sorcery.
I don't know how viable this is, but with the Reducto, at least in live action, it's heavily considered one of the spells that Molly used on Bellatrix right before blowing her apart. So it can be used on living beings. Like I said it's not confirmed but it pretty much looks like it. Transmutation seems to be a big focal point. Albus's seems to be able work on a higher scale, maybe Albus can dispatch the vermin quickly with it turn them into pies or something, but that would just serve the purpose of distracting him, even if he dispatches them quickly. Not sure if Flagg can effect the wand with his magic, but he surely could just disarm him or outright break it.
I think you both did a great job,this was a treat to read, I really want to see this fight. I give my vote to Sirfizz, I think he presented his argument better. Speed kills, Albus has to focus on a lot of spells, defense and offenise. He also stayed in the wheelhouse of what Flagg does. I know he has to be scaled up a fair but, bringing up the 3 unforgivable spells isn't too relevant, while Albus would know them, but not use them, even when fighting Voldemort.
Honestly Grindelwald is the guy you should be CaV'ing with against The man in Black.
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