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#1 Posted by Floopay (11237 posts) - - Show Bio

The Sage of Shadowdale (Composite Eras) (@floopay)

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vs

Eragon (Inheritance Cycle) (@the_red_viper)

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Conditions:

  • Equipment
    • Best composite average/guess for Elminster and Eragon
    • Read below
  • Character's at their best
  • Morals On
  • In Character
  • Basic knowledge on the other (mage, warrior, psionics, etc.)

Location

Start 100 feet apart

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Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#2 Posted by Floopay (11237 posts) - - Show Bio

Elminster Aumar

The Sage of Shadowdale, The Old Mage, The Old Man, Mystra's Favorite, Chosen of Mystra, Old Sage, Stinkbeard, the Old Meddler

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History

Elminster was born to the lord of a small village and prince of Athalantar. His father and village were murdered at the order of his Uncle, and Elminster was outcast immediately thereafter. At the age of twelve, he became a thief and a brigand. Eventually, he was chased into a temple where he was forced to spend the night. He was then contacted by Mystra, who transformed him into a woman and hurled him across Athalantar as one of his priests. Elminster slowly learned the ways of divine magic before coming into direct contact with Mystra herself. He trained as a mage, and eventually transformed himself back into a man.

Obviously, Elminster eventually gets his revenge, and saves his kingdom, all before he turns 30. Over the next 1250 years or so he became arguably the greatest wizard in all of Forgotten Realms lore, fathered the new goddess of magic (implied), raised 3 of the seven sisters (other Chosen of Mystra), apprenticed dozens of the realms greatest wizards, became an outcast, lost his powers, and regained them anew (and arguably more powerful than before). Elminster has outlived his goddess and seen her rebirth twice over. Going so far as to actually apprentice the goddess herself, and briefly wield the mantle of Mystra.

Note: I will not be debating Elminster with Mystra's mantle, as that is more than too broken.

Version of Elminster I'm Using

Elminster can theoretically replicate any feat he has already had in the past. This is only semi-debatable. However, there is some debate that could be had against it. Magic has been shattered twice in Forgotten Realms following the conflicts of Mystra. As a result, magic has made a full rebirth on two occasions and changed. Though it is said to have become more powerful, it's also undoubtedly different than it was prior. So we're just going to ignore the possible issues of what's changed from rebirth to rebirth.

Elminster's Statistics

Chosen of Mystra - Elminster is what is known as a Chosen of Mystra. Mystra is the goddess of magic and has merged with the mystical force most of magic is cast from in the Forgotten Realms universe. Mystra has certain disciples with whom she grants special powers and abilities to. Of all these chosen, Elminster is said to be her favorite and most powerful (with the Simbul being the only, potentially, more powerful magic user).

Superhuman Stats - As a chosen of Mystra, Elminster is augmented with strength, speed, endurance, and reflexes above that of even the finest athlete.

Immortality and Healing Factor - Elminster can recover from wounds at superhuman rates, significantly above those of a human (not on Wolverine levels, or even Luke Cage levels). He is also virtually immortal. Though he does age, he can also shapeshift on a whim to be whatever age he would prefer. He is currently about 1300 years old.

Commander of the Silvery Fires of Mystra - Elminster can wield magic in its most pure form, which appears as silvery blue fire. This magic can be used to almost instantaneously recover his wounds, singe and burn targets, repel telepathic intrusion, and a variety of other effects.

Spell Resistances - Elminster has some spell resistances and immunity. He has proven to fall victim of many sinister spells throughout the years; but has remained extremely resistant to death spells, and several spells that command his mind/limbs.

Spell Control - Elminster has demonstrated the ability to dominate certain spells and change their use and control to his own bidding.

Master Archwizard - Elminster can employee almost any spell he knows at almost any given time. It is believed that this is somehow tied to his command over silvery fires. As long as those fires burn within him (though they are not unlimited), he can bend and change his magic to his own will. Elminster can employ spells for a variety of effects including, but no limited to: teleportation, invisibility, illusion casting, destructive blasts, healing, a variety of shields, shapeshifting, mind control, matter manipulation, magnetism, gravity control, time manipulation, weather manipulation, environmental control, terrain manipulation, mind reading, precognition, self augmentation, dimensional shifting, summoning a variety of beings, intangibility, and elemental control.

Master over Magic Items - Elminster can bend and change the magic in his own magical equipment. Allowing him to change the properties of certain magic items, and change the magic that is stored in certain wands and etc.

Spell Absorption - Elminster can absorb the magic off of items in his possession to fuel his and recharge his silvery blue flames. This can be done on a whim, and does not require any special rituals or time. He cannot, as far as I know, do this to items he is not currently in possession of.

Equipment - Elminster often employs a variety of magical equipment on his body which has unknown effects. We know he has rings that augment his healing (regeneration), durability (protection), carry spell defenses, and other effects. Elminster also is known to store magical items inside of his own body (stomach, heart, chest, etc.) to be drawn out at his own convenience. He also wears enchanted robes, carries a thundering longsword, and has a magical staff. Finally, he carries a host of magical wands and scepters on his person and usually a few Eversmoking pipes (pipes that smoke without tobacco).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#3 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Awesome. I will be posting my intro soon.

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#4 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay

Eragon Bromsson, the Shadeslayer:

Eragon artwork is sadly very scarce, and what you can find online is usually pretty bad. So I might drop out the whole picture thing in my next post.

No Caption Provided

After finding a peculiar blue rock while hunting for deer in the mountains, the life of Eragon, the young farm-boy from the village of Carvahall, forever changed: the rock turned out to be the egg of a dragon, and from it hatched the first dragon in decades - which made Eragon first Dragon-Rider in decades. He was forced to flee his home shortly thereafter along with his new dragon, which he named Saphira, and a mysterious old storyteller named Brom - and started to make his way to the stronghold of the Varden - the underground force that rebels against the evil tyrant king Galbatorix. Eragon found himself becoming the champion of the Varden after slaying the Shade named Durza - being only the 3rd person ever accomplishing such a feat and living to tell the tale. Since then, Eragon lived among the elves and studied under Oromis, an old elf Dragon-Rider who lived in secrecy with his dragon Glaedr, slew many dangerous enemies, learned the greatest secrets of his land, befriended humans, elves, dwarves, dragons, Urgals and even werecats, and finally reached the point where he was ready to challenge and defeat Galbatorix himself.

Despite his young age, Eragon is wise beyond his years, the greatest swordsman in the world, and an accomplished magician.

Powers and abilities:

Superhuman physical stats: in his journeys, Eragon underwent a physical transformation that gave him the physical appearance of an elf - and with it, also the physical traits of an elf - which are far above those of even the most athletic and fit human.

Swordsmanship skill: Eragon is the greatest known swordsman in the world. He was a prodigy even as a young boy, and his training under masters such as Brom, Oromis and Glaedr had turned him to a nigh-peerless warrior.

Magic: Eragon uses his magic by utilizing the long-forgotten Ancient Language, which controls the very fabric of everything in reality. His magic is limited only by his strength, his knowledge of the Ancient Language (which he knows fluently), and his imagination. Using magic, Eragon can (and has) perform feats of healing, warding, scrying, energy manipulation, matter manipulation, telekinesis, empathy, and much more.

Telepathy: Eragon's magic allows him to use telepathy. He can peer into people's thoughts and memories, mind-control other people from afar, physically locate other beings by sensing where their minds are, and even channel magic through telepathy.

Gear:

Brisingr: Brisingr is Eragon's sword. is is a hand-and-half sword, making it pretty large, and is made of Brightsteel - a special rare metal that came from an ancient meteorite.

Aren: A ring given to Eragon by Brom. It is charged with loads of magical energy which Eragon can unleash. By the end of the book series, he's already used up all the energy in Aren, but since we're using composite gear, we'll assume it has the same amount of energy that it did when he first used it.

The Eldunarya: "Eldunarya" is the plural form for "Eldunari". an Eldunari is a dragon's "heart-of-hearts", a rock-like internal organ that a dragon can disgorge at any point in their life. After the dragon dies, its consciousness and all its power continue to live on inside the Eldunari. Eragon has over 130 Eldunarya, which he keeps in an inter-dimensional rift. He can telepathically communicate with the dragons, and draw power from them. The Eldunarya are what makes turns Eragon from an incredibly dangerous and hax opponent to pretty much a walking plot-device.

Important names that I will use in my posts:

Since you haven't read the Inheritance Cycle (as far as I know), and for whoever reads this debate and also hadn't read the Inheritance Cycle, here's a list of the names of characters and places that I will likely use often so you can have reference in case you get confused when reading my posts.

  • The Inheritance Cycle: The book series the features Eragon. The books are, in order: "Eargon", "Eldest", "Brisingr", "Inheritance", and the recent addition "Tales from Alagaesia - vol. I - Eragon".
  • Alagaesia: The land in which the story takes place.
  • Saphira: Eragon's dragon.
  • Arya: An elven princess, Eragon's friend and companion (and love interest).
  • Galbatorix: The evil tyrant king of Alagaesia, he is responsible for the downfall of the Dragon Riders.
  • Shruikan: Galbatorix's dragon.
  • The Varden: The rebellion movement that fights against Galbatorix and his regime.
  • Murtagh: Eragon's former friend and companion, who turned into a Dragon Rider who serves Galbatorix.
  • Thorn: Murtagh's dragon.
  • Brom: Eragon's first mentor, and later to be revealed - his father.
  • Oromis: An elven Dragon Rider that lives in secrecy in the capital city of the elven kingdom - Ellesmera. He was Eragon's mentor when Eragon arrived in Ellesmera.
  • Glaedr: Oromis's dragon.
  • Roran: Eragon's cousin.
  • Angela: A mysterious herbalist. She is a companion of Eragon. Angela is a very powerful mage, and very little of her true nature is known.
  • Solembum: A were-cat. Angela's close companion.
  • Blodhgarm: A powerful elven spellcaster and warrior. He is the head of a company of 12 elves that served as bodyguards to Eragon and Saphira.
  • Vanir: An elf who lives in Ellesmera, Eragon's sparring partner.
  • Ra'zac: Foul and evil creatures, think Nazgul but with beaks. Very dangerous, and deadly fighters.
  • Lethrblaka: The Razac's mounts. Leathery dragon-like creatures. Think Fell Beasts but uglier.
  • Durza: A powerful Shade. A Shade is a sorcerer possessed by evil spirits, which make him evil but also extremely powerful. He was slain by Eragon, who is the 3rd person to ever slay a Shade and live to tell the tale.
  • Umaroth: The dragon of Vrael, who was the leader of the Dragon Riders at the time of the fall. Eragon has Umaroth's Eldunari.

In my next post(s), I will delve more into how Eragon's magic and telepathy works (which isn't easy to understand if you haven't read the books), and of course I will get more into the actual feats that the guy had accomplished. For now, I'll leave it to you to show us what Elminster can do. May we have a good one, mate ;)

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#5 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (4509 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh wow, nice to see these two being represented! TAEP and T4V please, good luck! Also, just to be sure, does Eragon have access to Saphira? I didn't see it restricted so I was just wondering.

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#6 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: Saphira isn't here, though I guess if we see that Elminster would be way too much for Eragon, and Saphira would help even things out, Floop and I could maybe make adjustments. But I've never read anything with Elminster in it so we'll see (just might be the other way around).

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#7 Posted by Floopay (11237 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: You might need Saphira. I'm sick and am not in the mood to page through and type up all the quotes out of the Elminster books today, so it might be a week before i get something up.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#8 Posted by the_wspanialy (4036 posts) - - Show Bio

Good old El used in an actual VS debate?

T4V, please.

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#9 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: oh, well I hope you feel better soon bud. And we'll see about Saphira, might be I'll need her and might be I won't, neither of us know enough about our rival to say right now.

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#10 Edited by Floopay (11237 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy: @the_red_viper: @fullmetalemprah:Use the dragon at your own discretion.

Elminster Aumar

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Elmara and Amarune: Rune/Amarune is a descent of Elminster he occasionally had to possess after his death in order to use magic. This was a severely weakened Elminster from the Spellplague. Elmara is Elminster when he was transformed into a woman against his will for the majority of the first book.

We'll start with some simple counters and abilities:

Elminster creates a bunch of slashing, whirling blades spontaneously in an area: This is essentially the Blade Barrier spell.

"Elmara's next spell brough whirling blades into being from nothingness. They flashed and spun about the waving eyestalks of the beholder like so many fireflies. El saw more than one eye spurt gore or milky liquid and go dark before the madly spinning eye tyrant blasted the shards into drifting smoke with a ray that leapt on to stab a certain young mage.

Leapt-and rebounded, slicing silently back into the roling tangle of dragon wings and scaled shoulders and claws, and the darting spinning, snarling eye tyrant. The dragon roared in pain; but El could see none harm the beholder."

-Ed Greenwood, Elminster: Making of a Mage

Elminster spontaneously lights all metal objects around him in magical blue flames that incinerate the people wearing metal: This isn't the heat metal spell, in fact I dunno what this is. But if your guy doesn't have immense heat resistance, he's getting incinerated.

"Fair morn," she foffered them mildly, sipping cider. "Who are ye who come in arms to Narthil when honest folk are still abed?"

"I'll ask, and you will give swift answers," the warrior snapped, turning his mount to one side so he could lean down right over Elmara. "Who are you?"

"One who would see proud mages and cruel armsmen taken down," El replied, and at the word 'down' her spell went off. Shards of shimmering force flashed out from her in all directions. Where they touched metal, it burst into crackling blue flames-and the man within the armor or holding the blade convulsed and toppled from his saddle.

For a brief instant, the world seemed full of bright light and rearing, crying horses, and then the terrified, riderless mounts were gone in a wild thunder of hooves, leaving Elmara facing just two riders, who sat white-faced in their saddles, a hastily raised protective spell glowing in the air around them.

-Ed Greenwood, Elminster: Making of a Mage

Elminster uses Heat Metal: Literally turns metal red-hot. Cooking a small army of soldiers in their suits of armor. They hastily disrobe before burning to death (he put them all to sleep immediately after).

"The armsmen were still gaping at the body of their commander when Elmara's hasty second prayer-spell took effect. All around the field, armor glowed a dull red, and men began to grunt, squirm, and cry out, dancing in frantic haste and clawing at their armor.

Hotter it glowed, and hotter. Men were screaming now. The stink of burning flesh and hair joined the metallic reek as armsmen flung their armor desperately in all directions, howling and rolling about naked in the field."

-Ed Greenwood, Elminster: Making of a Mage

Elminster destroys an army of magical suits of armor: These things are called Helm horrors, and this mage commands a small army of them. Elminster creates a whirling vortex of immolating heat that disintegrates every piece but a single helm.

Elminster murmured something-and the night exploded in an angry emerald flame.

Or was it a bolt of something else? With a weird burbling sound that was part exulting song and part keening saw, it spiraled down the street in a slowly expanding, blazing cone, plucking the walking suit of armor up into itself as it went. Every last one of them.

Greatswords, gauntlets, and helms could be seen whirling around and around the moving, expanding glow, swept down it as it sputtered, darkened, sputtered again-and abruptly winked out.

Leaving the street dark and empty, save for one blackened, bouncing helm that clanged on the cobbled and fetched up beside Mirt's boots, ruby red infernal fire roiling inside it."

-Ed Greenwood, Bury Elminster Deep

Elminster disintegrates a mansion's wall: Elminster disintegrates an entire wall of a mansion with a quick spell.

Elminster regarded the broken shards around the edge of the missing window for a long, silent breath, then lifted his armed and unhurriedly worked a spell.

The mansion wall vanished with a roar, laying bare the innards of half a dozen rooms and causing an overhang of suddenly unsupported roof-slates to groan, lean forward-and drop, one by one, to shatter loudly on the ornate iron fence below.

-Ed Greenwood, Bury Elminster Deep

Elminster's normal defenses defeat most magics: This guy launches a small group of what I believe are fireballs. They fade to nothing before striking him. The archmage is a powerful foe, and sending multiple at once tells me this is a higher level spell than a normal fireball.

"The air was suddenly full of flame, snarling spheres of it that expanded with frightening speed as they rushed through the air at Rune. Mirt cowered back around the corner, flinging out an arm to warn Storm, knowing even as he did so that he was too late to do anything, too late even to cling to life as-

Above them, the highest of the fiery spheres came to an abrupt, shuddering stop in midair, as if it had struck an unseen wall. Its angry orange-red flames went blue, then green, then blue-silver—and fell away to nothing, plunging toward the cobbles like spilled sand but vanishing utterly before they landed.

She couldn't do that. No one could.

-Ed Greenwood, Bury Elminster Deep

"You can cry now."- Elminster destroys the majority of this guy's mansion, sending it into pieces across the night's sky and halfway across the city. He also disintegrates the dude's magical defenses on his home territory (a heavily warded home), and destroys his most prized magical item. This guy is a reputable mage for hire with a lot of resources. So it's pretty impressive.

"The name," came the calm, almost insolent reply, "Is Elminster."

Rune's nimble fingers moved again, and even as Dardulkyn wrenched open the panel and closed his hand triumphantly around the gleaming black grip of his most potent staff, feeling its power thrumming through him, Elminster's next spell struck.

The sound was like a thunderclap, despite the stormless night sky. This magic was no tidy vanishing, but a series of bursts that blew apart several deeper rooms of Dardulkyn's mansion, hurling their stones and plaster and all high and far into the night sky in the general direction of Jester's Green. Plucking the crackling, angrily pulsing, and ulimtately exploding staff from the mage's hands in the midst of their punishing tumult, the bursts whirled it away across the night sky with the rest of the wreck…and left. As the last rolling echoes of the magic rebounded off nearby buildings, and dazed and bewildered folk started to thrust their heads out of windows, a stunned and terrified Larak Dardulkyn clung to the edge of the opened panel amid the smoking ruins.

His black robes were shredded and many busily winking motes of light appeared and disappeared up and down his body in mute memorial to the shielding and warding magics that had kept him alive but paid the price.

…By the time he'd swallowed twice and thrice, it had all crumbled to reddish brown powder. Even the sword hilts.

"You can cry now," Elminster told the huddled archwizard gently. "As wizards seem to be all too fond of saying, these days. We all have to start learning about the world sometime."

-Ed Greenwood, Bury Elminster Deep

Magical Counters

I'll be waiting for your reply. But you're gonna need some magic defense.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#11 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2:

So far I don't think I'll need Saphira. The Eldunarya will do just fine I believe.

Anyway, since decent artwork is scarce, I decided to pass on the pictures to open my posts. Here's some music instead:

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Back to business then.

1. Counters:

First of all, against heat. Elminster seems to be using heat and fire for his offense often. But do know, that Eragon's magic allows him a pretty high-level energy manipulation. In fact, as he trained under Oromis, it was said he excelled at just that:

At spells that dealt with the great energies----such as light, heat, and magnetism----he excelled, for he possessed the talent to judge nigh exactly how much strength a task required and whether it would exceed that of his body.

Eldest

Frankly, you'd expect someone who rides a dragon into battle to know how to deal with heat and fire.

One example of him using that skill is controlling the temperature of the flames that coat his sword, "Brisingr":

He aligned Brisingr with the hairline crack between the two doors, put his weight behind the sword, and pushed the blade through the narrow gap and out the other side. Then he increased the flow of energy to the fire blazing around the blade until it was hot enough to burn its way through the dense wood as easily as a knife cuts through fresh bread.

Brisingr

Here he uses magic to protect himself from cold. Should work just the same against heat:

From the Varden's camp by the banks of Leona Lake, Saphira set out across the broad expanse of water, angling northwest and climbing so high that Eragon had to use a spell to shield himself from the cold.

Inheritance

Glaedr taught him a spell that can shield him from cold so intense that it could kill. Again, no reason why a similar spell won't work against intense heat:

Eragon, you must amend the spell you are using to warm yourself to include Saphira and me. It is going to grow cold, colder than even the bitterest winter in the Spine, and without magic, we shall freeze to death.

Even you?

I will crack like a piece of hot glass dropped in snow. Next you must cast a spell to gather the air around you and Saphira and to hold it there, so you may still breathe. But it must also allow the stale air to escape, or else you will suffocate. The wording of the spell is complicated, and you must not make any mistakes, so listen carefully. It goes as such----

Once Glaedr had recited the necessary phrases in the ancient language, Eragon repeated them back to him, and when the dragon was satisfied with his pronunciation, Eragon cast the spell. Then he amended his other piece of magic as Glaedr had instructed, so the three of them were shielded from the cold.

Inheritance

Even if Elminster manages to heat up Eragon's armor, Eragon can disperse the heat with a thought. Against actual fiery attacks, well, as someone who's fought evil dragon-riders, you'd expect Eragon to be able to counter fire, right? Well, you won't be disappointed. Here for example Eragon blocks Thorn's fire:

Even as the red dragon opened its maw to retaliate, Eragon cried, "Skolir nosu fra brisingr!" He was just in time. The conflagration swirled around them but did not even scorch Saphira's scales.

Eldest

Regardless, Eragon has wards to protect him. He has them on himself at all times and they function like auto-shields. For example here, where Eragon's wards stopped Thorn's fire again:

Thorn bellowed and sprayed the rows of tents between him and Eragon with a layer of white-hot flames that leaped up toward the sky. Screams of agony swiftly followed as the men within burned to death.

Eragon raised a hand to shield his face. His magic protected him from serious injury, but the heat was uncomfortable.

Inheritance

Pay attention how Thorn's fire which killed many warriors was only an inconvenience to Eragon.

As another example, Saphira breathes fire so intense that it made arrows flying toward her and Eragon, standing next to her, crumble to ash in mid-air, yet Eragon was unharmed by the heat:

A line of archers on the battlements of the castle keep let fly a volley of arrows at Saphira. The heat above her was so intense that a handful of the arrows burst into fire in midair and crumbled to ash, while the magical wards Eragon had placed around Saphira deflected the rest. One of the stray arrows rebounded off Eragon’s shield with a hollow thud, denting it. The plume of flame suddenly enveloped three of the soldiers, killing them so quickly, they did not even have time to scream.

Inheritance

Back to the topic of wards, they will also protect Eragon from any other type of physical attack - be it magical in nature or not. For example, here Eragon's wards deflect a direct shot from a ballista:

A javelin shot from a ballista glanced off his wards and flew spinning down a street.

Brisingr

The wards have some pretty crazy feats. You'll see some more soon enough. Alright, now that I've discussed the ways Eragon can defend against the different types of offense you've offered, time to retaliate. And let me tell you, Eragon has a lot to offer. I'll start by explaining more in detail how the magic in Eragon's universe works, because it may be a little hard to understand for people who haven't read the books themselves. Sorry in advance for the pretty long read.

2. Background on magic:

Most magic is used by speaking the Ancient Language. It is a language that is used to describe the true names, or true nature, of anything. Speaking a word or a phrase in the Ancient Language would result in a certain effect (given that the user has magical abilities of course). For example, "Brisingr" is the word for "fire" in the Ancient Language. Speaking it would grant the user control over fire, the ability to summon fire, etc. It's pretty much like a Green Lantern ring - you are only limited by your imagination when using this magic.

Magic drains the user's vitality. The more powerful or complicated the spell is, the more energy it takes to use. A spell too powerful could result in the user's death. However, this is hardly a concern for Eragon, as I will later explain in detail.

Here is the explanation that Brom gave Eragon on how magic works:

"This magic----for it is magic----has rules like the rest of the world. If you break the rules, the penalty is death, without exception. Your deeds are limited by your strength, the words you know, and your imagination."

[...]

"Brisingr is from an ancient language that all living tings used to speak. However, it was forgotten over time and went unspoken for eons in Alagaesia, until the elves brought it back over the sea. They taught it to the other races, who used it for making and doing powerful things. The language has a name for everything, if you can find it."

"But what does that have to do with magic?" interrupted Eragon.

"Everything! It is the basis for all power. The language describes the true nature of things, not the superficial aspects that everyone sees. For example, fire is called brisingr. Not only is that a name for fire, it is the name for fire. If you are strong enough, you can use brisingr to direct fire to do whatever you will. And that is what happened today."

Eragon thought about it for a moment. "Why was the fire blue? How come it did exactly what I wanted, if all I said was fire?"

"The color varies from person to person. It depends on who says the word. As to why the fire did what you wanted, that's a matter of practice. Most beginners have to spell out exactly what they want to happen. As they gain more experience, it isn't as necessary. A true master could just say waterand create something totally unrelated, like a gemstone. You wouldn't be able to understand how he had done it, but the master would have seen the connection between water and the gem and would have used that as the focal point for his power. The practice is more of an art than anything else."

[...]

Brom took a deep breath and said, "To work with magic, you must have a certain innate power, which is very rare among people nowadays. You also have to be able to summon this power at will. Once it is called upon, you have to use it or let it fade away. Understood? Now, if you wish to employ this power, you must utter the word or phrase of the ancient language that describes your intent."

Eragon

With magic, Eragon can do pretty much anything. He is only limited by his imagination, his vitality, and his knowledge of the Ancient Language (which he can speak fluently). Some even consider him a reality warper to a certain degree, but that's a pretty vague term to begin with so I won't delve into that.

Now, you may want to say that him being limited by his vitality is a big drawback, which might have been true if not for the Eldunarya - remember them? Here's an example of what Glaedr's Eldunari alone, which isn't even Eragon's most powerful one, can do:

Eragon tried to guess the weight of a block in the pile of rubble; it must have been many hundreds of pounds. If he, Saphira, and the elves all worked together, he was sure that they could shift the stones with magic, but the effort would leave them weak and vulnerable. Moreover, it would take an impractically long time. For a moment, Eragon thought of Glaedr-the golden dragon was more than strong enough to lift the whole pile at once-but haste was of the essence, and Glaedr's Eldunari would take too long to retrieve.

Eldunari

So as you can guess, Eragon's power when he is fueled by his entire army of 130-something dragons, many of which are morepowerful than even Glaedr, is pretty ridiculously immense!

3. Offense:

Now onto the main course - what Eragon brings to the table in this fight. As explained above, his magic is a very powerful tool and will be his main offense here, but first I'll discuss telepathy, because that's most likely how the fight will begin - magic-based fights always start that way in Eragon's world. What's going to happen is that Eragon and the Eldunarya will reach for Elminster's mind with their own, attempting to penetrate the defenses that I'm guessing that he has.

Eragon's telepathic abilities are vast and powerful. In the Inheritance Cycle universe, telepathy is different from that in most other verses. It's a form of art more than anything else, with techniques and expertise that need to be practiced. A stronger mind won't necessarily win over a better trained one. Here's an example of Eragon (without Eldunarya) fending off numerous attackers using actual techniques that he learned and practiced:

The congregation of priests began to howl and stomp their feet, and Eragon felt their minds clawing at his, like a pack of wolves tearing at a weakened deer. He retreated deep within himself, warding off the attacks with techniques he had been practicing under Glaedr's tutelage.

Inheritance

Telepathy is always described in terms that compare it to actual, physical fighting, like here as well:

Du Vrangr Gata found the first enemy spellcaster. The instant he was alerted, Eragon reached out to the woman who made the discovery, and from there to the foe she grappled with. Bringing the full power of his will to bear, Eragon demolished the magician's resistance, took control of his consciousness----doing his best to ignore the man's terror----determined which troops the man was guarding, and slew the man with one of the twelve words of death. Without pause, Eragon located the minds of each of the now-unprotected soldiers and killed them as well.

Eldest

Another reason I wanted you to see this particular citation is to show you that Eragon can channel spells through telepathy and cast them onto people he has no physical contact, or even eye-contact with. The twelve words of death specifically will be discussed with more detail later on, so bear with me.

Needless to say, though, that Eragon is not alone here: he has 132 more minds with him, all of which are capable of independently defending and attacking with telepathy. Elminster has a mental battalion to contend with here, really.

Eragon has some feats of powerful telepathy, and the Eldunarya even more so. But, I will save them for my next posts, and get to the subject of actual magic.

First of all, Elminster's wards stopping fireballs is a cool feat, but Eragon has experience fighting people with similar wards and has developed ways of countering them. For example here, when he fought a group of soldiers who were protected by wards, making them impossible to be harmed with magic directly. What Eragon did was hurling them 10 feet backwards with a gust of air:

He quickly readied a spell Murtagh had once used on him: "Thrysta vindr!" It was a roundabout way of striking at the men, as he was not actually hitting them but rather pushing the air against them. In any case, it worked.

A howl of wind filled the chamber, clawing at Eragon's hair and cloak and sending the men closest to him flying back into their compatriots, clearing a space of ten feet in front of him.

Inheritance

Harming his foes indirectly is something Eragon's done on multiple occasions. One of my favorite examples is this, where Eragon blinded the Lethrblaka with magic. How did he do that? Instead of directly affecting the Lethrblaka's body, he manipulated light and prevented it from going into the Lethrblaka's eyes:

He only had time for one more spell before he would have to devote himself to stopping the Ra'zac from inserting the sword between his liver and kidneys. In desperation, he gave up trying to directly harm the Lethrblaka and instead cried, "Garjzla, letta!"

It was a crude spell, constructed in haste and poorly worded, yet it worked. The bulbous eyes of the Lethrblaka with the broken wing became a matched set of mirrors, each a perfect hemisphere, as Eragon's magic reflected the light that otherwise would have entered the Lethrblaka's pupils. Blind, the creature stumbled and flailed at the air in a vain attempt to hit Saphira.

Brisingr

"Garjzla, letta" translates to "Light, stop". Even though it was "a crude spell, constructed in haste and poorly worded," you can still see what devastating effect it had. I think it shows not only just how dangerous Eragon is and what effects he can achieve with even a short, 4-syllable spell, but also how creative and quick-thinking he is.

Now, that being said, it may not even come to that. Eragon's direct magic is very powerful and might be able to overcome Elminster's own wards - would be hard to know until you provide more feats for the wards, but here's some treats by Eragon. First of all, let's not forget he has Aren fully loaded with energy, and that's some big supply of power right there. Here's the time Eragon unleashed the energy stored in his ring, I underlined parts that demonstrate the huge amount of debris he was controlling, and the sheer power of his spell:

Eragon drew in his breath, then he breached Aren's precious hoard and shouted, "Jierda!"

The torrent of energy that flowed through him was greater than any he had ever experienced; it was like an ice-cold river that burned and tingled with almost unbearable intensity. The sensation was both agonizing and ecstatic.

At his command, the huge pile of rubble blocking the gates erupted toward the sky in a solid pillar of earth and stone. The rubble struck Thorn in the side, shredding his wing and knocking the screeching dragon beyond the outskirts of Dras-Leona. Then the pillar spread outward, forming a loose canopy over the southern half of the city.

The launch of the rubble shook the square and drove everyone to the ground. Eragon landed on his hands and knees and remained there, staring upward as he maintained the spell.

When the energy in the ring was almost depleted, he whispered, "Ganga raehta." Like a dark thunderhead caught in a gale, the plume drifted to the right, in the direction of the docks and Leona Lake. Eragon continued to push the rubble away from the center of the city for as long as he could; then, as the last remnants of the energy coursed through him, he ended the spell.

With a deceptively soft sound, the cloud of debris collapsed inward. The heavier elements----the stones, the broken pieces of wood, and the clumps of dirt----fell straight down, pummeling the surface of the lake, while the smaller particles remained suspended in the air, forming a large brown smudge that slowly drifted farther west.

Where the rubble had been was now an empty crater. Broken paving stones edged the hollow, like a circle of shattered teeth. The gates to the city hung open, warped and splintered, damaged beyond repair.

Inheritance

Even as a novice, Eragon could ragdoll Urgals (they're a lot like orcs) with magic:

Rage swept through the Urgals; their leader howled, gnashing his teeth. "We'll drag you to him, then!" He waved his arm and the Urgals rushed at Saphira. Raising his right hand, Eragon barked, "Jierda!"

No! cried Saphira, but it was too late.

The monsters faltered as Eragon's palm glowed. Beams of light lanced from his hand, striking each of them in the gut. The Urgals were thrown through the air and smashed into trees, falling senseless to the ground.

Eragon

Again, this is Eragon from the first book. He was far less powerful back then.

Now, a little about the twelve words of death which I mentioned earlier: there really isn't much to be said about them because they're just so simple, however they are undoubtedly one of Eragon's most deadly tools. The twelve words of death are just what their name suggests: insta-kill spells. Plain and simple:

Over the next hour, Oromis taught Eragon twelve methods to kill, none of which took more energy than lifting an ink-laden pen.

Eldest

You've seen him use them. All he needs is a mental link with his target, and voila. There are only 2 words that were explicitly mentioned in the books by name - "deyja" (which simply means "die"), and "kverst" (cut - probably intended to cut a major artery or something). The rest are not mentioned by name but are simply referred to as "words of death", and most of the time when Eragon uses them it isn't specified just which word he uses. They aren't physical spells, like a fireball being fired, they just take effect once the user casts them. They can be blocked with special magical defenses, but Elminster's wards seem to be actual shields against physical attacks, such as fireballs, so I'd question their effectiveness against Eragon's death-words.

Another spell that Eragon can use to instantly kill without physical contact, though it isn't officially considered a "word of death" (but might as well be), is "jierda" - which means "break". Here Eragon uses it to break the neck of a Kull (Kull are like Urgals, but bigger, stronger and meaner. They're like Uruk-Hai to the Urgals' orcs):

Suddenly a Kull jumped at him, club raised for a blow. Unable to lift his shield in time, Eragon uttered, "Jierda!" The Kull's head snapped back with a sharp report as his neck broke.

Eragon

He can "aim" the spell at specific body parts as well. Here he specifically breaks the calves of 20 Urgals with one use of the spell (again take note that it's the first book and Eragon was far behind his prime here):

Eragon raised his palm, shouting, "Jierda theirra kalfis!" Sharp cracks resounded off the cliff. Twenty of the charging Urgals fell into Kostha-merna, howling and clutching their legs where shards of bone protruded.

Eragon

Again, like the death-words, this is a spell that takes instant effect upon the body of the target, without any need for any sort of magical projectile to make any sort of contact. Can Elminster defend against this?

Anywho, Eragon has many more ways to fight using magic. As I said, he's limited only by his imagination and by his knowledge of the Ancient Language. More examples will come in my next posts. In addition, there's always the good old-fashioned way - the battle can be decided in a swordfight. I'll make a wild guess that Elminster is better with a sword than his appearance might suggest, but do know that Eragon is an extremely deadly opponent in a swordfight... now more than ever, with scaling from Murtagh who just got some slick feats in the new book. I'll wait for feats by Elminster before I show you what Eragon can do with a sword, but for his own sake I hope Elminster here is packing some good showings.

Conclusion:

So far, I don't think there's anything that you've shown Elminster doing that Eragon can't defend against using his wards (you haven't seen his best feat with wards yet so be prepared). In addition, while Elminster has magical defenses himself, I think he needs better showings than blocking a fireball to suggest he can successfully block some of Eragon's more powerful spells, and there's still the death-words which take instant effect upon the target, as well as telepathy, and any combination thereof. Plus, while I haven't thoroughly discussed it just yet (I will in my next post), a swordfight is also a possibility here and let me tell you, Eragon is packing some serious stuff in that department.

Sorry for taking this long with my reply. Schoolwork is getting the better of me these days. But I'm looking forward to see what you bring up in your next post!

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#12 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Posted by TheVivas (19447 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Murtagh who just got some slick feats in the new book.

I finished it the first day I got it lol. What did you think?

Tag btw, excited for this debate.

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#14 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (4509 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good post for Eragon, I honestly forgot how hot a dragon's fire is in that series. Can't wait to see the response.

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#15 Posted by noah_ouellette (3666 posts) - - Show Bio

This is hilariously unfair. Elminster is 2-3 tiers above Eragon. But yeah T4V

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#16 Posted by the_red_viper (12620 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: It was fun to read. I liked "The Worm".

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#17 Posted by noah_ouellette (3666 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Edited by TheVivas (19447 posts) - - Show Bio