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#1 Edited by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio

Stephen Strange:

Repped by Pipxeroth.
Repped by Pipxeroth.

Versus

Hal Jordan:

Repped by yours truly.
Repped by yours truly.

Conditions and stipulations

  • In character, but very serious and morals off, meaning both are willing to kill.
  • Standard gear.
  • No prep time or knowledge for either of the combatants.
  • Strange is classic + Sorcerer Supreme composite.
  • Hal is pre crisis.
  • Hal's weakness for yellow is negated.
  • Win by death or incapacitation only.

Location: Deserted Earth

No Caption Provided

Note:

  • This is a CaV, desist from posting your opinion on the outcome of the battle or posting comments/engaging in conversations that will derail the topic of this thread.
  • If you wish to be tagged for voting, then comment as such.
  • While voting, do not vote with your opinion on the battle as a basis for the vote, but vote for who you think convinced you of their stance.
  • Votes without a valid reason/justification will not be considered, this is to avoid biased or unfounded vote.

Asides from that, we hope you enjoy the debate. :)

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#2 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Edited by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every post

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#4 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by haoalchemist (6196 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V..man this is going to be rough...i can already see the blurred lines

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#7 Posted by hutchy1345 (126 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#8 Posted by vsw (2930 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#9 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed (1311 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely tag, also is it just me or does Doctor Strange look rather feminine in that picture

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#13 Edited by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#14 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2581 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#15 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2581 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#16 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6734 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

Definitely tag, also is it just me or does Doctor Strange look rather feminine in that picture

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#17 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17942 posts) - - Show Bio

RIP

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#18 Posted by Chronicplane (9203 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#19 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17942 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: My eyes after that Doctor Strange picture.

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#21 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Edited by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17942 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Yeah. Not sure why you like using art of MCU Strange though.

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#24 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v. Although from what I have seen Classic Strange is just as ridiculous as pre-crisis characters.

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#27 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#28 Posted by Pipxeroth (9305 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: I'll probably have my post up in 2-3 days.

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#29 Posted by TheHierarchy (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#30 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by HigherPower (12393 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag.

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#32 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18472 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#33 Posted by Battle123axe (9053 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Edited by Pipxeroth (9305 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619 Sorry my post is a little late. I think this should be quite an enjoyable debate, two of the most bullshit characters in comic history going at it. Also just as a disclaimer I stole borrowed a lot of these scans from @wastelandman because I'm too lazy to save and upload them to CV myself, so my thanks to him.

Without further ado:

Doctor Stephen Strange, Sorcerer Supreme

No Caption Provided

Energy Projection/Blast

Probably not Strange's greatest asset, but he more than makes up for it with his other abilities. I've seen some pretty ridiculous durability feats for Hal so I'm not really expecting Strange to be able to beat him with simple blasts, but he does have some notable feats that I want to showcase.

I'll start low and work my way up, so let's begin with a weakened, mind controlled Stephen easily one shotting Hulk.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Defenders (1972) #44

Not overly impressive in and of itself, but given the circumstances it's definitely worth mentioning, as Hulk was pretty damn durable even in his classic days.

While exhausted from fighting for 48 hours in Hell, he quite effortlessly caused a moon to explode.

Doctor Strange (1974) #16
Doctor Strange (1974) #16

While in his Astral Form, which mind you is weaker than him in his body, and prior to becoming Sorcerer Supreme, which is a massive boost in power, he caused the living planet Kathulos to explode, and also tanked the explosion.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Marvel Premiere #9

Next, again while in his Astral Form, he one shotted Nova (The Herald of Galactus) using an attack called the Bolt of Bedevilment.

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Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #42

Nova herself has caused and subsequently no-sold a point blank supernova, along with the black hole created from said supernova.

No Caption Provided

So needless to say one shotting her is a very impressive feat.

The reason I mention the spell specifically is because of some information that will become important soon. We've seen Umar, Dormammu's Sister, use the same attack before to slice through to the other side of the Earth in a under a microsecond.

Strange Tales (1951) #156
Strange Tales (1951) #156

But more on that later, for now I'll just show one final and very dumb feat. Pre-Sorcerer Supreme Strange destroys an entire magical dimension using the Eye of Agomotto.

Strange Tales (1951) #136
Strange Tales (1951) #136

That will do for this section, like I said I'm not necessarily expecting Strange to take out Hal using his energy projection, but I just wanted to show that he's certainly no slouch.

Durability/Shields

Now this is where we start to get some really good feats. Stephen's shields are absolutely ridiculous and one of the most impressive things about him. Honestly I don't think Hal will be able to hurt Strange with raw power at all, he's going to have to rely on hax.

Let's start with something really simple, like no-selling planetary destruction multiple times. I've already showed this before where he destroyed Kathulos, but I'll repost it here just for visibility.

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Marvel Premiere #9

He also survived the complete obliteration of Earth caused by Mordo, which killed every other character.

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Doctor Strange (1974) #12 - #13

Strange has also shown no issues with tanking supernovas and their resultant black holes, which he did whilst in his Astral Form and protected his body separately.

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Doctor Strange (1974) #27

His shields have stood up to attacks from a number of extraordinarily powerful enemies. For example, a pissed off Mephisto in his own realm.

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Fantastic Four (1961) #277

One more than one occasion too.

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Doctor Strange: Triumph and Torment

He's also taken blasts from Satannish in his own realm.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30

And just like Hal, Strange has tanked the frickin Big Bang.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Marvel Premiere #14

Which was even mentioned recently, in case anyone thinks it's not a legit feat or something.

Strange (2010) #3
Strange (2010) #3

And, of course, his shields have stood up to Dormammu numerous times. I'm too lazy to scandump all the instances, so I'll just show what is probably his best one - Strange standing up to a pissed of Dormamu who was starting to destroy the entire Dark Dimension and even hurting Dormammu himself.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #24
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #24

Quite possibly Strange's single greatest shield feat though comes from the Satannish instance I posted before. Mephisto came into Stannish's realm and they started fighting; the force of their fight was so great that it was tearing the entire dimension to shreds and even causing damage to Mephisto's realm and Earth-616, yet Strange was completely unharmed.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30

The sheer amount of force his shields can stand up to is, like I said, just absolutely ridiculous. I'd be very surprised if Hal is able to hurt Strange at all.

And don't think you can slip around the shields with some fancy attacks either. Even his autoshields are capable of blocking phasing arrows from Deathurge.

Quasar #25
Quasar #25

These are the same arrows that can effortlessly phase through Quasar's own shields and even Watchers are afraid of them.

Not even being collapsed into 2D can hurt him.

Doctor Strange (1974) #27
Doctor Strange (1974) #27

Or even being sent to universes where life just gets ripped into astral debris.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme#49

These shields can stand up to just about anything you can think of.

Body Reconstitution

If that raw defense wasn't enough, Strange has also shown the ability to keep going without his physical body and simply restore it. He's shown this a few times and has even used it on other people, for example he reconstituted both his and Spider-Man's physical forms outside of space and time after a spell Strange was trying to use to scatter Dormammu's essence throughout space and time misfired.

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Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #58

It is of course much easier to do when he's not trying to reform outside of time and space, for example he pretty much trolled Nightmare by warping his own body.

Strange Tales (1987) #7
Strange Tales (1987) #7

This was done with Black Magic which Strange generally doesn't like to use because of his morals, but he's morals off here so there's no reason he wouldn't. So now even if Hal can get through shields that stand up to forces strong enough to rip dimensions apart, he's going to have to deal with a body that can just morph itself back together. Hal's best course of action here would be trying to use hax, but as you're about to see that's not something I think is in his favour.

Anything Hal can do, Strange can do better

I genuinely don't think there's a single 'hax' thing Hal has performed that Strange hasn't already replicated either as good or just flat out better. I'll have each hax in the general order in which I think Strange would attempt them as strategies in the fight.

Random Bullshit

Before I get to the main stuff, I want to just mention a few miscellaneous things that Strange can do to help tip the scale in his favour even more.

First off, Strange can quite easily cast invisibility on steroids for both himself and others, as we saw when he made the Mighty Avengers, which included both Iron Man as well as fellow Sorcerer Doctor Voodoo, unable to see or hear himself or the rest of the New Avengers while they were performing full scans of the room.

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New Avengers (2004) #29

Tony's detection capabilities are pretty ridiculous, including scanners, radars, and environmental sensors so potent to the point where they're constantly collecting analyzing particle content of everything around.

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And even better, there are numerous instances of him being able to detect magic and even Strange's magic specifically, making Strange able to hide from him very impressive.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Aside from making himself invisible, he's also capable of attacking Hal's senses directly. For instance, he can make him blind with no effort.

No Caption Provided

Another tactic Strange is very proficient at is becoming intangible, which he has done numerous times both inside and outside of combat at various levels of power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

So not only is Hal unlikely to be able to hurt Strange through his shields in the first place, but if Strange is ever worried about a particularly strong attack he can simply phase right through it. These are just a tiny, tiny fraction of the miscellaneous spells Strange can use to aid himself in this battle; Hal better have some good counters to fighting an invisible, soundless, intangible enemy while blinded.

And finally, one of the single most hax spells Strange has ever used, he can cast a spell that makes all the damage Hal inflicts on him go back on Hal instead, full counter style. This is so powerful it worked on both Mephisto and Satannish.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #30

Like I said earlier, pretty much your only chance is using hax against Strange, but I think you'll find that's easier said than done.

Mystic Senses

Like many other sorcerers such as Dormammu, Strange has a form of precog known as mystic senses. One very clear example of this was when Strange was alerted to the presence of Dark Phoenix, at the same time as Spidey (thanks to his Spider-sense) and Surfer (thanks to his cosmic senses).

X-Men (1963) #135
X-Men (1963) #135

This can reveal powers, intentions, and weaknesses of opponents, but given the battle stipulations this will most likely come into play as an extra bit of warning against any sudden attacks Hal might attempt.

Time Manipulation

I'm going to start the real hax now with his absolutely ridiculous control over time, because quite frankly Hal can only dream of being as powerful as Strange in this regard. Honestly, Strange might be the single most impressive fictional character I can think of in terms of time manipulation (obviously not including abstracts/literal gods and whatnot). I'm including all of Strange's "freezing" feats here because a lot of the time they involve freezing things in both time and space and it's often unclear as to exactly how Strange is doing it in any one particular instance.

So to start, Strange has shown several times how he is able to speed himself up to become significantly faster than light. Here he speeds himself up so that he can walk around normally after Tempus slowed it down to the point where it would take 100 years for Captain America to take a single step.

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A+X #18

Even using low end estimates this comes out to be roughly 40x FTL, not super impressive I know, but the point is more to demonstrate how easily he can speed himself up via his time manipulation.

Now remember earlier how I showed Umar using the Bolt of Bedevilment? Well the reason I showed that is because Strange actually sped himself up after it was fired to the point where he could overtake it and save Clea in the previous issue.

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Strange Tales (1951) #154 - #155

The speed of Umar's Bolt of Bedevilment alone works out to be over 40,000x FTL, and here Strange sped himself up after it was fired and had presumably already traveled a great distance and still managed to overtake it and cast a spell to reverse it back to Umar before it hit Clea. That's some pretty ridiculous speed.

That's just the boring stuff though. Strange can use his time manipulation in so many different ways offensively, the first and most simple of course is freezing time, something which he does extraordinarily casually on many occasions both inside and outside of fights.

Freezing time casually to save some people.

Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe #2
Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe #2

Freezing time with Chaos Magic.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #83
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #83

Altering time so it runs concentrically around him and is frozen elsewhere.

Sentry: The Void #1
Sentry: The Void #1

Stops time (by literally just saying 'stop'), then sends out his astral form while simultaneously pulling Banner's astral form out of Green Scar's body.

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Incredible Hulks #635

Hell, at the very moment he was hit with a fatal attack he literally froze time and created his own pocket dimension outside of time and space to have a breather.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme Annual 4
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme Annual 4

And in terms of the sheer power of his control over time, he has countered time manipulation from the infinity gauntlet. The most simple demonstration is when Nebula used the Gauntlet to reset everything in the universe back to exactly how it was 24 hours ago, but with his hands behind his back and without even saying a word, Strange prevented himself and Surfer from being affected by the time reset.

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Infinity Gauntlet (1991) #6

Even Thanos himself confirmed that Strange would be able to undo his own time manipulation with the Gauntlet.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #33
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #33

And in case you think Thanos was wrong, Strange in that very issue did indeed counter a time maelstrom created by Thanos.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #33
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #33

That should be plenty enough of a display of his raw power, so let's move on to his versatility with time manipulation. Freezing time is far from being the only thing he can do, one of my favourites is when he altered Omegatron's perception of time to the point where each moment became an entire era to it.

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Marvel Feature (1971) #1

Now obviously an era isn't exactly a quantifiable value, but the amount by which he slowed down Omegatron's perception is utterly insane, given 5-10 seconds became countless years. Even if you lowball this to the absolute minimum and say it's 10 seconds to 50 years, that means Strange slowed down his perception of time by a factor of over 150 million, and it's likely much, much higher than that.

Moving on, as I showed in a scan earlier which you might not have looked at, he caused a star to go supernova by "compressing time" in combination with altering its molecular action.

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Doctor Strange (1974) #27

He's also rewound time on multiple ocassions.

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And has even directly turned back time on an object, in this case Black Knight's stone body.

Doctor Strange (1974) #35
Doctor Strange (1974) #35

And of course he can go the other way and fast-forward time, not that that particular skill will help much in the battle.

Doctor Strange (1968) #183
Doctor Strange (1968) #183

Not only does he have a massive control over time as a whole, but he also very commonly likes to freeze people individually, and this has worked on some pretty insane scales. Starting with something nice and easy, he immobilises Hulk with his index finger, the absolute definition of casually dealing with a threat.

Incredible Hulk (1962) #299
Incredible Hulk (1962) #299

He doesn't even have to keep this up or anything, as shown when he froze Clea in time and then physically entered her brain while in Astral Form.

Doctor Strange (1974) #22
Doctor Strange (1974) #22

This section is already pretty long so I'll just skip forward to one final feat of sheer power. For hours on end Strange was able to hold two entire realities (Both Earth-616 and another unknown dimension) and keep them frozen to prevent a gateway that was constantly changing what dimension was on the other side from changing again.

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The Sensational Spider-Man (1999) #22

While this is something that required the continued use of his body, he was still able to use his Astral Form to go and help Spider-Man separately. Again this obviously isn't exactly a combat feat but it's an example of just how stupidly powerful his control over time and space is. Hal is gonna need a hell of a lot of good counters for Strange's time manipulation by itself, let alone the rest of the hax I'm about to get into.

Telepathy

One of Strange's favourite methods of dealing with opponents of all levels of power. Simply put, Strange's TP is insane.

To begin with something nice and simple, he changed the memories of all of Earth so they thought he had died.

Strange Tales (1987) #17
Strange Tales (1987) #17

In terms of raw power in telepathic battles, he defeated Moondragon herself in a direct TP battle while he was weakened.

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Infinity Abyss #3

In case you're not aware of how powerful Moondragon is, she very casually enslaved an entire planet with her TP and has forced telepaths like Xemnu (who has also controlled the entire population of Earth) out of her head.

He's also defeated Umar in her own realm telepathically, who is powerful enough to easily mind control Hulk. I don't need to post TP resistance feats for Hulk, do I?

Doctor Strange (1974) #7
Doctor Strange (1974) #7

The Eye of Agamotto comes in handy with TP as well, for example he used it to take down HoM Wanda.

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Avengers (1963) #503

In fact the Eye of Agamotto is so stupidly powerful it even resisted TP from Adam Warlock with the complete Infinity Gauntlet using the mind gem against Strange.

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Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #36

People's minds are such a playground for Strange that he doesn't even need to initiate a proper telepathic battle. For example he incapacitated Captain America by sending his mind to "The realm of Mortan'L's Insanity" where they're forced to battle their own minds.

Uncanny Avengers (2012) Annual 1
Uncanny Avengers (2012) Annual 1

His spells allow him to send groups of hand ninjas to sleep with ease.

New Avengers (2004) #31
New Avengers (2004) #31

And he's even dropped Emma Frost, a very strong telepath in her own right, with a wave of his hand, so he clearly doesn't even need to use proper telepathy to incapacitate people.

Age of Ultron #8
Age of Ultron #8

On the same vein as not-technically-telepathy-spells, Strange also loves to trap his opponents in illusions, such as when he locked the entirety of the New Avengers (which included Sentry) in a fear illusion.

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New Avengers (2004) #29

So Strange has both an enormous amount of raw power when it comes to telepathy as well as a huge amount of versatility, and is capable of attacking the mind in non-standard ways which pretty much ignore any telepathic defense a character might have. Even if Hal has enough TP defense to withstand a standard mind assault from Strange, he's also going to have to deal with illusions and spells that don't even initiate telepathic battles.

Transmutation

Stephen has pretty fantastic transmutation abilities that have worked on some pretty powerful opponents. Starting with just super standard spells, he's turned Dormammu's blood to ice (while Dormammu was in a flesh body) by simply muttering that very phrase.

Doctor Strange: The Flight of Bones #4
Doctor Strange: The Flight of Bones #4

In the same series he also completely removed a demon's mouth just by saying "quiet".

Doctor Strange: The Flight of Bones #3
Doctor Strange: The Flight of Bones #3

He's used his transmutation abilities on larger scales too, such as when he took Nightmare's army of demons and just turned them into one big stone lump.

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Doctor Strange (1968) #181

This of course isn't limited to working on organic matter, as he's turned the innards of robots into flowers.

Doctor Strange: The Oath #2
Doctor Strange: The Oath #2

Or even magical objects such as Hitler's handgun, which was imbued with magic so powerful that the bullets could pierce straight through Strange's own shields. Of course, this didn't stop Strange from turning it into bugs casually after using it to kill the Marrakant Hellguard (a demon so powerful that it murdered every other Sorcerer Supreme that fought it).

Doctor Strange: The Oath #4
Doctor Strange: The Oath #4

In fact Strange's transmutation is so powerful it's even worked on Agamotto himself in his own realm, when Strange turned his claw into butter to prevent an attack.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #7
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #7

And these are just his basic transmutation abilities. Things get much more interesting with this next section - Catastrophe Magic. Catastrophe Magic is an extremely powerful form of magic based around change. As you can imagine that's very, very useful when discussing transmutation.

Starting out with something simple, Strange very casually turns a gun into a swarm of bugs and then causes said bugs to vanish completely, all with nothing more than a thought and a very stern glare.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #81
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #81

It should be noted that he was pretty much otherwise powerless apart from his Catastrophe Magic when he first learnt it, so you can be damn well sure he knows how to use it in combat. Here he absolutely mangles multiple enemies, turning clothes to chains, arms to insects, and legs to ropes.

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #81
Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #81

Another thing that Catastrophe Magic comes in handy for (which I'm too lazy to create a new section for) is tele-dismemberment, or whatever you'd like to call it. Basically the same with with what happened to the bugs from the earlier scan, Strange just has to think hard and pop, your limbs are off in another dimension.

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Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #82

In fact this is something he's done prior to using Catastrophe Magic as well.

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Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #60

This means that not only can Strange attempt to directly transmute Hal or his ring, but he can also simply attempt to teleport either his head or ring off as well, without even the slightest gestures needed. Hal is going to need both resistance to transmutation himself as well as transmutation of the Lantern Ring, in addition to Strange's ability to teleport them away.

Soul Attacks

Another option Strange has is to target Hal's soul or astral form. He can rip it out of Hal's body and from there do whatever he wants with it.

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New Avengers (2010) #4

For example, he can send it through time like he did to Mordo's.

Strange Tales (1951) #60
Strange Tales (1951) #60

In fact he doesn't even need to tear out Hal's soul himself, he could just sacrifice it to more powerful being like Satannish.

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Doctor Strange (1974) #79

Likely his most powerful spell in regards to soul attacks is the Babylonian Curse of Disintegration, which Strange described as "Shattering your spirit so that its fragments scatter throughout the many dimensions. You will cease to be. Death beyond death. The ultimate oblivion. No return."

X-Statix Presents: Dead Girl #5
X-Statix Presents: Dead Girl #5

This spell is so incredibly potent that even Dormammu himself was unable to restore his essence after Strange scattered it across a dozen dimensions.

Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #57
Amazing Spider-Man (1999) #57

Lucky for Dormammu he's a bit of a genius and before he died completely created a plan to get himself resurrected (and then killed all of Earth minus Strange), but it was something he was completely unable to do under his own power.

Hal is going to need to have a counter to all of these methods of soul attacks from the basic tearing-your-soul-out-and-sending-it-through-time right up to having his spirit shattered and scattered across multiple dimensions to the point where even a being as powerful as Dormammu couldn't bring himself back.

Draining/Power Stealing

Finally, Strange is very proficient in taking other people's powers. He's done this to some pretty ridiculously powerful individuals; for example he straight up siphoned the uni-power out of Captain Universe with no effort.

Guardians of the Galaxy (1990) #33
Guardians of the Galaxy (1990) #33

In fact the Eye of Agamotto can also drain things separately, as we saw when Strange himself was drained of his magic by Dormammu, who used that magic to animate a demon; the Eye siphoned that power straight back out into Strange again.

Doctor Strange (1968) #172
Doctor Strange (1968) #172

Lastly, I have one more scan especially for you. I know you love to talk about Hal having limitless power - I'd like to introduce you to Arioch, the most powerful Lieutenant of Shuma-Gorath.

No Caption Provided
Strange Tales (1987) #13
Strange Tales (1987) #13

Quite a threat, no? As strong as he can imagine himself to be, can do anything he can think of, he's not even finite! Sounds a lot like our friend Hal right? Well how could Strange possibly stop him?

No Caption Provided
Strange Tales (1987) #13
Strange Tales (1987) #13

Yep that's right, he just straight up absorbed Arioch into himself. Power draining likely won't be Strange's first plan of attack, but as a last resort it's certainly far from being weak.

Conclusion

  • Strange has ridiculous shields that Hal is going to struggle to do any damage against
  • Strange can snipe and one shot heralds that can no-sell supernovae with standard attacks
  • If Strange can't hurt Hal, he has an enormous amount of hax he can use to win:
    • Stopping time
    • Freezing Hal in time and space
    • Slowing Hal's perception down to the point where every moment feels like an era
    • Dropping Hal with telepathy
    • Trapping Hal in an illusion
    • Transmuting Hal
    • Transmuting Hal's ring or finger, leaving him powerless
    • Teleporting Hal's head off
    • Teleporting Hal's ring or finger off, leaving him powerless
    • Tearing Hal's soul out
    • Sending Hal's soul to another point in space-time
    • Shattering Hal's soul and scattering its fragments throughout multiple dimensions
    • Sacrificing Hal's soul to a much more powerful being like Satannish
    • Draining or stealing Hal's power
    • etc.
  • Strange also has random miscellaneous magic to help shift the odds even more in his favour such as becoming undetectable and intangible or blinding Hal

That's it for now, I hope I didn't forget anything and that my formatting didn't break. I'm looking forward to seeing what Hal can do without Superman scaling, so best of luck!

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#35 Posted by Pipxeroth (9305 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: Great opener :) Will have mine up this week probably.

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#37 Posted by BruceRogers (17456 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by IceHeart_30 (1100 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by LDM (5362 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus, Strange is brokenly OP

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#40 Edited by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio

@ldm said:

Jesus, Strange is brokenly OP

Pssht, you'll be swallowing your words when you see what Hal is capable of lol.

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#41 Posted by LDM (5362 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Battle123axe (9053 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Edited by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio

@pipxeroth: I'm sorry this took so long. Hope it is worth wait!

Hal Jordan: The Emerald Warrior

In the brightest day, in the blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight, those who worship evil's might, beware my power, Green Lantern's light!
In the brightest day, in the blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight, those who worship evil's might, beware my power, Green Lantern's light!

Background

Hal Jordan is the most well-known Green Lantern. He was the first human ever inducted into the Green Lantern Corps, and has been heralded as possibly the greatest Green Lantern of all time. Hal is also a founding member of the Justice League of America. He has also been known asParallax and The Spectre.

Stats

Note; my post will be loosely following the structure of my opponent's opener, thereby making it easier for you, the reader, to compare the capabilities of the two characters in any aspects of their stats and hax. Do note that I will be making arguments for Hal in certain sections while simultaneoudly making counters against Strange in said section for everyone's convenience.

Having said that, let's dive right into the section that my opponent began with:

Energy DC/Potency:

This is an area where Hal possesses an advantage even without scaling to Superman(something my opponent and I agreed that I wouldn't use), in my opinion. While Strange does have impressive feats, I still believe I can do justice to my stance here.

Having said that, let's begin with some low end feats. In Green Lantern #156, Hal ripped apart planet Dalgova with a single beam casually:

No Caption Provided

Context: Planet Dalgova scales to sizes greater than Earth:

No Caption Provided

This feat may appear to be faulty or not quite like I might make it out to, which is understandable considering it isn't clear whether ripping it apart is as impressive as ripping apart a normal planet. Hawever it is still an impressive feat either way, and hal has more explicit feats above that level, such as oneshoting planets:

No Caption Provided

In DC Presents #26, Superman stated the ring had enough energy to snuff out a star:

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And finally, to conclude this section, Hal Jordan went toe to toe with Polaris:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Never before has context been so important; Hal was stalemating Polaris despite the fact that Polaris was amped with the magnetic core of the universe. The same magnetic core that holds all of reality together.

The fact Hal could restrain, incapacitate, hurt and stalemate Polaris who was fighting with universal amounts of magnetic energy, all while holding back, shows you what how powerful Hal really is.

And how does Hal actually beat this guy? Oh it's nothing much, all he did was transmute the energy of his ring into the energy of the magnetic core and then overloaded Polaris with it causing him to vaporise into pure magnetic energy:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

That's right folks, Hal just transmuted his will energy into the one thing that was holding all of reality together, Something that was stated to be infinite in magnitude and was stated to be able to destroy everything. Welcome to the pre crisis era folks.

I suppose this should suffice for an opening argument, I hope I've convinced you, the reader, that Hal does indeed hold an importany advantage in the slugging contest. Now, moving on;

Durability/Shields:

Now this is where we start to get some reallygood feats. Stephen's shields are absolutely ridiculous and one of the most impressive things about him. Honestly I don't think Hal will be able to hurt Strange with raw power at all, he's going to have to rely on hax.

Lol you can say what you want, cause there is no way in hell he is superior to Hal unless he no sold the Big Ban-

And just like Hal, Strange has tanked the frickin Big Bang.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Marvel Premiere #14
No Caption Provided

Wasn't expecting that. And the worst part? Hal never actually tanked the Big Bang, that was Clark.

But Hal does have durability have other durability feats that are on par with Strange's, which we'll get to soon enough. But for starters, Hal has, like Strange, tanked superonovas:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Scan1: He no-sold it while protecting the JL.

Scan2-3: Dived into superonova, initially unprotected, at 6 times FTL.

He tanked the heat of a hundred suns:

DC presents #26
DC presents #26

All Green Lanterns can no-sell flying through the sun:

No Caption Provided
Tales of Green Lantern corps annual #1
Tales of Green Lantern corps annual #1

And that's enough with low end feats. Moving on, He's tanked hits from Mongul whereas his shield no-sold hits from him:

No Caption Provided
DC presents #43
DC presents #43

What makes it interesting is that he is depicted to have durability seemingly equal to that of supergirl and his shield seemingly superior which is incredible because Supergirl can tank universal devastating energies:

No Caption Provided

And of course, the afforementioned Polaris feat, where he tanks the bloodlusted and full power of a universal being without using any form of extra protection, what if he decided to do something like this:

Flash #226
Flash #226

One can imagime how much more durable he'd be. Unlike Strange, Hal has feats and scalings that put him at universal potency in terms of durability, something strange doesn't have. Therefore Hal is more durable than Strange. I rest my case.

Speed:

Another aspect where Hal is superior to Strange. Speed is something that Strange lacks, which is why he has to resort to time manipulation, only to still get his ass handed back to him, in this section atleast, cause from what I can see, Hal can blitz Strange even if I take feats from the very first issue of Green Lantern, literally an hour after he got his ring:

No Caption Provided

Assuming it took him a couple of minutes it still comes down to millions of times FTL ehich alone is superior to Strange's reaction time. Hal could just cross the distance before he noticed and, ah well, that's a conversatiom for later.

If the lack of a time frame ircs you, then have a look at that time where he travelled across galaxies in a second to save his friend Tomar in Green Lantern #6:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

How is the distance galactic you ask? That's because no two GLs guard/protect the same sector and there are only 3600 sectors(meaning each sector must be containing millions of galaxies). This is a clear MFTL+++ reactionary feat, there is no way Hal could have possibly tagged them while moving so fast without such reaction speeds.

In Adventure Comics #459, He travelled across a galaxy in a nanosecond:

No Caption Provided

Time frame was revealed to be a nanosecond and the distance is unspecified, however, even if I lowball it to the solar system it is still quardrillions of times FTL. What's even more ridiculous? Unlike most travel feats, tracing a trail involves actually monitoring it every instant you travel across it, something Hal was evidently able to do while flying quadrillions of times FTL which is a clear cut reaction feat because if Hal had only FTL reactions then he wouldn't have been able to efficiently track a trail while it was zipping past him at quadrillion times FTL(since from his perspective everything is moving towards him at the speed that he is travelling; quardrillion times FTL).

This feat puts Hal galaxies above Strange in speed. Strange can honestly do whatever the heck he wants with his time manip, based off of his feats, Hal will still blitz his ass.

This feat still isn't Hal's best, he's kept and even outsped Flash many times:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

The Flash has done things like blitzing Spectre:

No Caption Provided

The frigging Spectre.

That still isn't Hal's best feat though, in Green Lantern #178 he moved so fast that he warped space infinitely

No Caption Provided

Unquantifiable no doubt, but I still wanted to mention it. FYI, warping space infinitely takes infinite amount of wnergy according to Einstein's theory of General Relativity.

And all these feats may still not be his limit(assuming he has one) because his speed ia directly proportional to his will power

No Caption Provided

And that's about it for stats.

Before I conclude, it should be noted that all the feats presented thus far are, by no means Hal's full power, as Hal himself states in Justice League of America #224:

No Caption Provided

Hal doesn't have a hard limit of any sorts. And no, I do not mean Screwattack style 'limitless', just that Hal can become arbitrarily stronger, and there is no solid limit to how much stronger he can become. There is plenty of evidence in the form of feats, scaling and a plethora of statements from many characters stating the same thing, including Superman, who himself does not have a hard limit:

No Caption Provided

This instantly debunks any argument against Hal that bases itself on superior stats. Simply put, it is simply impossible for any non-fundamental or transcendent force/entity to overpower Hal and even that is honestly lowballing. Strange cannot truly win in the stat battle, leaving only hax, which is another area where Hal surpasses Strange for similar reasons.

Hax

Strange has impressive feats and versatility, undoubtedly. My opponent did a fantastic job in presenting Strange's power. However, I am confident in Hal's superiority and in my capability to do that superiority justice. Without further ado;

Body Reconstitution/regeneration:

You have some pretty impressive feats in this section, But Hal is no slouch. For starters, every Green Lantern is capable of turning into a ball of energy and back as Arisia did in Tales of Green Lantern #1:

No Caption Provided

One can argue that reconstituting one's body from energy that they transmuted themselves into isn't enough to say that they can reconsitute themselves from anything. Which is a valid point, however it is still worth mentioning.

Hal, in Justice League of America #149, reconstituted his body from pieces that were sent to different dimensions:

No Caption Provided

Pulled himself back together based on pure will power, not to mention with only a piece of his full power. Which shows being dispersed into different dimensions honestly ain't doing shit to him. His regeneration is quite impressive too. He was shattered to pieces and his ring fixed him back good as new:

No Caption Provided

Self explanatory. Some more impressive feats would be when Atom, using Hal's ring bought the Justice League back to life, albeit imperfectly, despite the fact that their atoms were scattered in the air:

JLA #25
JLA #25

Now there are some things that imply Hal would casually surpass this feat. For one, Hal is regarded as the greatest Green Lantern of all time, so pretty much any feat performed by any lantern automatically implies he can perform/surpass it. Secondly, Atom has never used a GL ring before, meaning he's already massively inferior in it's usage to even an average GL who's been around for years. Thirdly, Atom's mind was in a dazed state, and he still managed to reconstitute their bodies together(albeit erroneously)

All of this implies that body reconstitution is child's play for Hal. A feat that depicts this would be when he and Alan transmuted Flashes from Earth 1 and 2 to photons and back to humans:

JLA #22
JLA #22

Hal's prowess in body reconstitution is easily on par with Strange's. And I don't believe these are anywhere near his limit.

Time Manipulation:

Strange has some pretty crazy time manip feats. I'll even admit I completely underestimated his time manip and his capabilities in general. But Hal by no means is a slouch. He is on par, if not superior to Strange in this area. Let's jump right into why.

Let me begin with Hal's specialty; Time travel. Hal is a time travel specialist, unlike Strange whose forte seems to be time rate manipulation. He has great flexibility and versatility with regards to time travel and his applications of it in combat etc. But we'll get there.

For starters let's look at the most elementary form of time travel; Wormhole time travel. Hal can just blatantly rip holes in the fabric of space and time itself to reach any point in time, like he did in Green Lantern #30, where he created a wormhole to get Pterodactyls to go back to their time a hundred million years ago:

No Caption Provided

A tedious way of time travelling, not practical in combat, which is why he doesn't use it much in comparison to some other forms of time travel, like for example just blatantly flying to any point in time through the time stream. He did exactly this Green Lantern #51, where after sensing that the future needed him he takes of to the future, the year 5707:

No Caption Provided

And again in Green Lantern #66;

No Caption Provided

Asides from flying through the time stream, Hal can also just powerbeam any object into any point in time, like he did Flash and Reverse Flash in Flash #225:

No Caption Provided

Or just instateleport to any point in time like he did in the same issue:

No Caption Provided

Context: JIC you're confused, Hal was basically stealing something from the future(for a good cause) and that other GL came to stop him, he blasted him with a power beam and thought he had killed him, and Hal explains how he survived.

The important part is the explanation, Hal commanded the ring to send him to the past the moment the power beam hit him. What this means is that Hal can command the ring to perform any task/action the moment a any set condition is satisfied. Like in the example above commanding the ring to send him to the past(the task) the moment the other GL's beam hit him(condition). This is an extremely broken ability and more importantly an extremely broken strat. Hal could just command the ring to send him back in time the moment he is about to die or be incapacitated(which is the condition for victory in this matchup) making it physically impossible for Strange to win. Or heck he doesn't even need to time travel he can just have the ring send back a telepathic message in time relaying everything that happened to Hal, allowing him to change the future and prevent Strange's victory. Hal is capable of sending beams across time, just in case that wasn't made clear:

Forgot which issue.
Forgot which issue.

The only argument that can be made against this strat is that Strange could win by killing Hal before the rind sends him back in time ie: outspeeding it., which would be a valid counter if it weren't for the fact that the ring functions instantaneously:

No Caption Provided

"An instant high-density forcefield saved me". Quite explicit and no room for speculation or lack of context. This pretty much seals any chance of Strange winning.

Moving on, Hal is capable of freezing time within a thousand miles of a planet:

No Caption Provided

It isn't quite clear as to whether he is freezing only creatures of the entire system but it's still impressive either way.

Moving on, Hal has one, incredible, time rate manipulation feat, in Action Comic #642 where he stretched out a fraction of a nanosecond to eternity:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He basically achieved timefreeze by stretching time infinitely. Which is absolutely insane. It implies a couple of things, the first obviouspy being that he can sliw down time as much as he wants. It means he would completely dominate Strange in this area via feats, since Strange has only ever slowed down time finitely. It further also implies that Hal would dominate Strange if he ever tried using time rate manip to increase his speed since Hal can surpass it infinitely.

Moving on, Hal has some cool time manip resistance, like in Green Lantern #103, where he disrupted a time null zone with just a flash if his consciousness:

No Caption Provided

Latern on in Green Lantern #158, he was perfectly fine in a stasis field where time was stated to not pass:

No Caption Provided

In Green Lantern #116, Hal was fine going through a space warp where there was no time or space 'as men knew it'. Take that how you will, I don't wish to debate semantics, and in my knowledge that particular phrase doesn't explicitly mean a difference in shape and form, and depends on whether it's being used technically rhetorically.

No Caption Provided

Having said that, we have only two more feats to get into, my two personal favourites. In Justice League of America #33, Hal went as far as to create time itself:

No Caption Provided

He created time while fighting in the time stream and imbued the JL with it so that they could defeat an eternal entity known as the 'Endless One" who could only be defeated by time. Freaked out yet? With this ability Hal can instantly age or de-age any object as he did himself in the scans. My interpretation is that the more older an object is, the more chronal energy it possesses. Hal basically increases the amount of chronal and hence its age. Practically reality warping.

Moving on, and this is may appear to be a bit of shaky scaling but bear with me. In Superman #295, a villain named Time Trapper used the ring of the GL Corps to wipe out all possible futures of Earth-1:

No Caption Provided

This is just one of those feats that make you wonder wtf were pre-crisis writers smoked when they wrote nonsense like this.

This feat is just ridiculous, there are practically infinite possible futures for Earth-1 and onlydozens of GLs. Which means a single ring was wiping countless or perhaps even infinite possible futures. Which depicts the dumb amount of influence has over time, reality and even probability since the Time Trapper just reduced any chance if him losing.

To sum it all up; Hal can flexibly travel through, sense through, freeze, slow down, resist, exist without, become invincible through, create and even destroy; time.

'Nuff said I suppose.

And having said that let's move on to the next section.

Telepathy:

Telepathy isn't really Hal's style. I mean sure, he uses it to gain intel and stuff but he has almost never initiated a telepathic attack during combat, or atleast he'd never engage in a telepathic battle unless his opponent iniates an attack.

Having said that let's look at some feats, starting with some tame feats. In Green Lantern #2, He dived into Pieface's subconsciousness:

No Caption Provided

In JLA #18, he telepathically made Snapper not hear stuff:

No Caption Provided

Hal has fended off Hector casually despite the fact that Hector was amped with the rings' energy:

No Caption Provided

It should be worth mentioning that Hector can reality warp with just his mind:

No Caption Provided

I'm not insinuating that reality warping is now connected to TP, but it is worth mentioning it since, in Hector's case, both are derived from his advanced brain.

Moving on, Hal took over Superman and Batman, the former of whom actually has TP resistance:

No Caption Provided

In Green Lantern #73, he forced Star Sapphire to turn back into her alter ego Carol:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

It should be noticed that Star Sapphire has TP herself. Moving on, in Green Lantern #1, the ring could scan the entirety of Earth for a worthy successor, one without fear:

No Caption Provided

Now, while it isn't stated to use TP, I don't think it is possible to find a worthy person without using TP, I think the ring did and elementary scan of each peraon until it found Hal. This would count as a planetary TP feat.

And finally, one last explicit planetary feat:

Green Lantern #31.
Green Lantern #31.

Note: He wasn't actually being controlled as stated in the first panel. Later on he reveals he was pretending to be controlled:

No Caption Provided

Now, the fact that Hal can take over the entire planet so casually, implies that a very serious and morals off Hal would be able to massively surpass this feat. For Hal's TP is directly dependant on his will power:

No Caption Provided

A very serious Hal and especially a morals off Hal would have massively superior will power compared to a casual, morals on Hal, who in turn has casual planetary TP.

So while Strange has some very impressive feats, I think it's reasonable to say Hal wouldn't get overwhelmed by him at the very least.

Transmutation:

Ok this is one aspect where Hal dominates, really. Strange has good feats but they don't stand up against what Hal has done in my opinion.

For starters, he transmuted Pieface into a pidgeon in Green Lantern #7, unconsciously, by literally imagining it in his dreams, despite the fact that the ring isn't even on his finger:

No Caption Provided

Later he realises he f*cked and turns him back again:

No Caption Provided

If I'm being honest? Turning a human into a bird, while maintaining the human's memories and mental capability in it's bird form, under the most casual circumstances seems more impressive than most of the feats Strange has, but I digress.

Moving on, In Green Lantern #6, Hector, using the ring, caused a tree to grow old, dead and rotten:

No Caption Provided

It seemed like a time manip feat, I'm not sure tbh. But it hardly matters, in the same issue, Hector evolved humans to make them superior and devolved Pieface(dressed as Green Lantern) into an ape:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

And later on, Hal turned Pieface back to a human:

No Caption Provided

In Green Lantern #157, he devolved Hector, someone who was stated to be able to be able to warp all of reality to his whims:

No Caption Provided

One of his most impresaive devolution feats. There are more instances of evolution and devolution, but you get the point. Moving on, Hal has turned bullets into numbers

No Caption Provided

Just one step away from reality warping really. Moving on, he transmuted the Flash into photons:

No Caption Provided

This is transmutation on a sub-subatomic level, something one needs explicit durability feats against. Hal.performed an even greater feat when he converted the JL into an entirely different form of energy:

No Caption Provided

Again, this is transmutation on the most fundamental level, havig atomic or even sub-atomic durability isn't enough to resist this^.

In JLA #137, Hal reacreated the dark aura of some bad dude:

No Caption Provided

Context: Said dark aura could dissolve matter entirely, and seemingly out of existance:

No Caption Provided

Not to mention, Hal tanked the stuff raw:

No Caption Provided

Which is some pretty impressive durability on a fundamental level, so it is unlikely that transmutation will be able to deal damage to Hal.

And finally one last feat, and one of my favourites; That time when Hal transmuted a toy rocket into a real one just by willing it to do so:

No Caption Provided

Self explanatory, Hal's transmutation, in my opinion knows no limits. He is capable of tanking eveyrthing Strange has to offer and hitting back with more.

Soul Manipulation:

God I hate this ability. I'll say it now, or perhaps it's obvious enough, that Hal sucks at this shit. Really the dude has one goddamn feat. Whereas Soul manip is like Strange's forte. Strange eclipses Hal in soul/astral manip.

Having said that, the one feat that Hal has? I think I can make a case of him winning in most cases. Not in an astral battle but through a cop out strategy, but before that, let's get into said feat. In DC presents #26, he soul-jumps out of his body just before his body was about to physically die:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

He was able to exert will over the ring to teleport Superman across dimensions.

No Caption Provided

What does this mean? It means that Hal can operate his ring even when he's in his astral form.

So the plan is simple, Strange takes the battle to the astral plane where both their bodies are unguarded and unconscious, Hal then orders wills his ring to blast Strange's body with negagive/anti energy or any other form of attack that would wipe Stange out and he wins.

So while Strange has superior soul manip, taking the fight to the astral dimension is just suicide.

Will power manipulation/manifestation:

This is Hal's most in-character, most spammed hax, and arguable one of his most broken ones. This ability is basically Hal channeling his will into the ring to manipulate the energy of the ring. Most people are under the misconception that the green constructs of Hal are actually made up of will energy itself. Which is false, the energy of the ring that the constructs are physically made up of is known as psycho-plasmic energy, as explicitly stated by the creators of the Green Lanterns, the Guardians:

Green Lantern #116
Green Lantern #116

Anyways, let us start with some tame stuff. Hal can manifest virtually any machine/device under the sun with his ring, here's an example:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

It's honestly limited to his imagination, regardless of whether he knows how it works or not. Superman stated it lacks quantification and limits:

JLA #189
JLA #189

And that's that. He can turn manifest his will power into a variety of substances and materials:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

The only condition required manifest materiala, is having basic knowledge on them. Coming to some of the more high end feats, he can create an array of energies and forces such as magnetic, stasis, anti/negative energies:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Scan1: Manifested universal amounts of magnetic energy.

Scan2: Manifested stasis fields.

Scan3-4: Manifested negative/anti energy.

"But Streak, you can't say he can manifest any form of energy just because he did a few, that's an NLF!"

Right you are, but, that isn't the only evidence for that assertion, in JLA #137, he manifested dark energy without even knowing what exactly it was, after just seeing it:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

They were literally like: "uh, that shit seems powerful. I know! Why don't we coat ourselves with it?"

The fact that they can casually create a form aura/energy that they have never encountered and have no clue about what it actually even is, obviously implies that they can manifest energies and even fundamental entities that they have info about.

Examples that demonstrate that there honestly seems to be no visible limit to the ring's manifestation capabilities is when Hal literally manifestated something as fundamental as space and even time itself:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Can you honestly name a form of energy and force that Hal could not replicate after taking at look at these feats? Cause if you can, then this next and final feat is for you my friend:

Just for the sake of performing a feat that required magic, Hal went as far as to transmute his entire powerset and himself into that of a magician:

No Caption Provided

I present to you folks, the man who can manipulate his power and even himself to be anything, with the only limit to it being his imagination and his will.

Secondary Hax

Just a bunch of hax that don't really deserve an all out section, not only because there aren't too many feats but also because it would be pointless, so I'll just be providing a feat or two for them.

Teleportation:

Teleported his brother across the universe:

No Caption Provided
Green Lantern #56
Green Lantern #56

Together with the help of Alan, he teleported the population of Eartih-2 back to their world from his:

Green Lantern #61
Green Lantern #61

Size manipulation:

He can go subatomic:

JLA #22
JLA #22

He reduced a nuclear bomb to the size of a cracker:

Showcase #23
Showcase #23

Temperature manip:

Rekindled a star:

No Caption Provided

Cooled it down:

GL #23
GL #23

He's even reached absolute zero:

GL #29
GL #29

Cloning:

Hal created 20 clones identical to him, with rings of their own, to help him:

GL #6
GL #6

As you can see, they all have personalities identical to Hal and a ring of their own and hence are as powerful as Hal. There is probably no limit to the replicas he can make. So even if Strange manages to overhelm Hal, Hal can just strike back with 20 (potentially unlimited) time the power.

Energy absorption:

The Green Lantern can absorb energy:

GL #237
GL #237

He can even absorb mystice energy, which is what Strange runs on(correct me if I'm wrong):

JLA #41
JLA #41

He can steal superpowers:

Brave and Bold #30
Brave and Bold #30

Intangibility/undetectability:

He can go intangible:

No Caption Provided

He can make things undetectable even to the JL:

JLA #41
JLA #41

And that's about it for now. I have more feats and hax to delve into but I think I've given my opponent enough to counter, also because I'm lazy to do more.

Counters: Your conclusion.

Strange has ridiculous shields that Hal is going to struggle to do any damage against

I'll have to disagree. Hal would rip through them with his best feats.

Strange can snipe and one shot heralds that can no-sell supernovae with standard attacks

That's cute and highly insufficient against a very serious and morals off Hal.

If Strange can't hurt Hal, he has an enormous amount of hax he can use to win:

Stopping time

Freezing Hal in time and space

Slowing Hal's perception down to the point where every moment feels like an era.

Hal isn't getting overwhelmed by Strange's time manip, and Hal can teleport or phase through being frozen in space.

Dropping Hal with telepathy

Trapping Hal in an illusion

Hal isn't fodder, he isn't just instantly getting overwhelmed by Starnge's TP while being very serious and morals off.

Transmuting Hal

Transmuting Hal's ring or finger, leaving him powerless

Unlike Strange, Hal has resisted offensive transmutation.

Teleporting Hal's head off

Teleporting Hal's ring or finger off, leaving him powerless

Hal's dealt with this. He'll just will himself back, or the invincible strategy that I mentioned in the time manipulation section can undo it.

Tearing Hal's soul out

Sending Hal's soul to another point in space-time

Shattering Hal's soul and scattering its fragments throughout multiple dimensions

Sacrificing Hal's soul to a much more powerful being like Satannish

The moment Strange enters the astral plane he's dead. Or if he doesn't need, cue the invincible strategy into play.

Draining or stealing Hal's power

Same applies for Strange.

Strange also has random miscellaneous magic to help shift the odds even more in his favour such as becoming undetectable and intangible or blinding Hal

Hal has even more of this.

Conclusion

  • Hal can shatter Strange's shields and overwhelm his durability. Strange has indeed tanked tje Big Bang, but tanking the Big Bang doesn't give you universal potency. Something Hal can hit Strange with.
  • Hal can tank Strange's power, even in his raw form, much more with shields or a massive GL avatar.
  • Hal is massively superior to Strange in speed, his powerbeams would blitz Strange a hundred times over before Strange realises he's being blitzed. It's no contest really. Anyone who thinks Strange holds even a tiny flicker of a candle to Hal is just blind.
  • Hal can arbritarily increase the prowess of his stats, and in this case he will certainly be able to supercede all his feats thus far being very serious and morals off.
  • Hal alao has a ton of hax:
    • He can blast Strange with antimatter.
    • He can blast Strange with negative/anti energy.
    • He can blast Strange with Chronal energy, aging him to death.
    • He can transmute Strange into numbers.
    • He can transmute the Eye of Agomotto into numbers.
    • He can devolve Strange to an ape or even further.
    • He can hit Strange with matter dissolving dark energy.
    • He can transmute Strange into light or into an entirely different form of energy.
    • He can teleport Strange into the antimatter dimension where he gets anhillated into energy.
    • He can teleport Strange into the negative energy dimension, where he gets wiped out of existance.
    • He can reduce Strange into the size of an ant thereby massively reducing his capabilities.
    • He can reduve the Eye of Agomotto into subatomic sizes, where it's either useless or unobtainable to Strange or both.
    • He can freeze Strange to Absolute Zero temperatures.
    • He can freeze Strange's brain to absolute zero.
    • He can become inconcievable.
    • He can overload Strange with the magnetic core of the universe and have him vaporised into magnetic energy..
    • He can evolve himself to the point where his mind alone can warp reality, that combined with his prowess with the GL, he would be an unstoppable entity.
    • He can time travel to Strange's birth and murder him.
    • He can kill Strange's parents or kill him in literally any point before he obtained his powers.
    • He can steal Strange's powers.
    • He can absorb Strange's mystical energy.
    • Can tentatively freeze time around his ring so that it would never lose enrgy and would possess infinite energy(refer to time manipulation section)
    • Can destroy timelines where Strange wins and there by reducing the probability that Strange does win drastically.
    • Can become invincible by having the ring send instantaneous telepathic messages just as he loses to 5 minutes realying all the information required for Hal to alter the future.

Now take everything mentioned thus far and multiply it by 20. That's what you're up against, Pipxeroth. Good luck, and looking forward to your counter

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#44 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Pipxeroth (9305 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Nice post, this is definitely going to shape up to be a good debate. I'm not sure when exactly I'll have my response done, hopefully within the next 2 weeks.

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#46 Posted by Streak619 (7752 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (923 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V