CAV | Donquixote Doflamingo (Eazy_Pezy) vs Madara Uchiha (GDara) - CLOSED FOR VOTING

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gdara

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#1  Edited By gdara

Challenge a Viner: Doflamingo (Eazy) vs Madara (GDara)

No Caption Provided

Match Settings

  • In-character
  • Immortality restricted
  • Dressrosa arc Doflamingo and Edo Madara being used
  • Both start in base
  • 3 posts for each person

CAV Rules

  • If you want to be tagged after every post we make say TAEP.
  • If you want to be tagged when voting is opened say T4V.
  • Vote on who made the better argument.
  • Do not give your opinion on the battle or try to debate.
  • Do not comment on the arguments we've made until voting is open.

@eazy_pezy

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Wushu59

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#3  Edited By Wushu59

Hmmm.. Interested in what the argument against Genjutsu will be. TAEP

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MarPlay

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TAEP

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NighStar666

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......dang , hope neither of you take years....TAEP

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shirso

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......dang , hope neither of you take years....TAEP

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SixPathsOfCapra

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#7  Edited By SixPathsOfCapra

T4V...interested in what the arguments against edo regen

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deactivated-6488abe71c145

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shirso

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T4V...interested in what the arguments against edo regen

Immortality is restricted

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SixPathsOfCapra

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#10  Edited By SixPathsOfCapra
@shirso said:
@sixpathsofcapra said:

T4V...interested in what the arguments against edo regen

Immortality is restricted

regen and immortality can be separate abilities. But i guess in case of edos they are same...nvm

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gdara

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bump

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Morningstar999

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Nice, TAEP.

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pics

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T4V

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Mike_Strike10

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Taep

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deactivated-615f1c99e517d

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Taep/T4v

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LimitBreaker1

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@gdara you are going crazy with all these CAVs lol

TAEP

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GodlyShinigami

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TAEP

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deactivated-61cf02d3ddc76

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gdara

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bump

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Morningstar999

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gdara

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I accidentally duplicated a scan about the Mini Bijuu Bomb.

Ignore the 2nd one.

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gdara

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Fixed.

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Wushu59

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Nice post

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gdara

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#30  Edited By gdara

(Just a heads up but Eazy_Pezy has allowed me to edit my own post to add

extra stuff I didn't add due to slight rush as it was late at night,) He'll start working on his once I finish editing my post. I'll finish my edits several hours later.

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Mike_Strike10

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MonkeysDkevin

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TEAP

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gdara

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The "Savior of this World" Madara Uchiha

"Wake up to Reality!"

Background

Madara Uchiha(うちはマダラ,Uchiha Madara) was the legendary leader of the Uchiha clan. He founded Konohagakure alongside his childhood friend and rival, Hashirama Senju, with the intention of beginning an era of peace. When the two couldn't agree on how to achieve that peace, they fought for control of the village, a conflict that ended in Madara's death. Madara, however, rewrote his death and went into hiding to work on his own plans. Unable to complete it in his natural life, he entrusted his knowledge and plans to Obito shortly before his actual death. Years later, Madara would be revived, only to see his plans foiled and ultimately, and finally, realizing the error of his ways and making amends with Hashirama before his final death.

==================================================

I. The Legendary Uchiha's Might

I will make a case for Madara having enough power and abilities to take down Doffy while also having enough skill to contend physically.

Madara is undisputedly one of the most powerful shinobi to have ever lived on the face of the planet.

A one-man army capable of taking down thousands of experienced Shinobi by himself with just physicals alone.

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He has arsenal is nothing to scoff at either, he can make gigantic flames that forced multiple shinobi to use water style together.

He can create corporeal clones that have the same techniques as he has.

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He can summon Wood Style: Deep Forest Bloom a technique that spawns flowering trees around the battlefield and releases pollen that can cause the people who inhale it to lose consciousness

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He has a War Fan casually deflecting Mini Bijuu Bombs, which is a compressed version of a normal TBB that can vaporize Mountain ranges with ease.

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And can casually slice through the God Tree which was restraining Naruto who deflected multiple TBB's in the same form that vaporized mountains.

His eyes which are called the Sharingan have the capability to predict an opponent's next move and act to counter it, the Sharingan in general has more abilities than just this.

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Has the power to mimic another person's moves accurately.

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And finally, it's most commonly used ability, the power to make others see illusions with eye contact called Genjutsu which can affect a person's five senses

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People under Genjutsu can be tricked into believing they are in pain or straight up make them believe they are not in one, Victims of Genjutsu will either stand still or moved under what the Genjutsu is making them believe.

Madara has the Mangekyo Sharingan which is above >>>>> Normal Sharingan >>>>>>Common Genjutsu

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It can also cause hallucinations and knock people out.

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Madara himself should have no travel seeing Doflamingo's Strings considering a much weaker Uchiha than him did this feat with a less evolved Sharingan

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Madara uses Genjutsu in-character, for example he put the Raikage in a genjutsu.

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Overall Madara has is a great fighter with many options of taking down powerful opponents.

==================================================

II. The Savior's Greatest Powers.

One of Madara's greatest abilities in his arsenal is the Susanoo.

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He has the ability to summon a giant humanoid-like structure that he can control freely and is equipped with swords for fighting. His clones are capable of also using this.

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And finally, it can evolve to the Perfect Susanoo.

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Easily Hundreds of Meters in Height alone, equipped with a sword that can not only slice mountain tops but also send it flying with just air pressure alone.

Such a feat can go as far as being calculated to be Large Island lvl in AP. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Madara_Perfect_Susano_AP

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As for durability, weaker Susanoos can tank the Hirudora which easily dwarfed an island.

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An Incomplete Susanoo also survived the Juubi's Tenpachi while being in the middle of it.

The Tenpachi is this.

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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arc7Kuroi/Juubi_Bijuudama_DT_Redux_Among_Other_Things...#Tenpachii

Most calcs like the one above puts this cataclysm at Country lvl.

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=============================================================================

By using the Susanoo Madara can make it use a hand sign that can summon Meteors this size.

Tengai Shinsei
Tengai Shinsei

This meteor was stopped by a combination of Ohnoki and Gaara's Sand.

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Ohnoki for reference can casually lift an Island earlier on the series.

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It was eventually all useless as Madara proved that he was able to casually spam the attack.

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These meteors alone based on the fact it took Ohnoki and Gaara to stop one, should make it easily bare minimum Island lvl in AP.

Izanagi

With a normal genjutsu, a user will apply an illusion to a target's senses, causing the target to experience things that are not real. With Izanagi, the user applies an illusion to reality itself, giving the user control over what is and is not real for as long as Izanagi is active. Users typically do this in order to protect themselves, negating any injuries they receive or even their deaths. When this happens, their injured self fades away as an illusion and their non-injured self immediately materialises in the previous self's place.[3] In the anime, users are shown extending Izanagi's influence beyond their personal reality, affecting their surroundings and those within it.[4]

Izanagi is based on the Creation of All Things Technique, used by the Sage of Six Paths to turn imagination into reality. The process is explained to use spiritual energy – which forms the basis of Yin Release – to create shape from nothingness. Then, through the application of physical energy – which forms the basis of Yang Release – the shape has life breathed into it.[5] Members of the Uchiha clan, as descendants of the Sage, perform Izanagi with their Sharingan. In exchange for the brief control over reality that Izanagi grants them, the Sharingan that they perform it with becomes blind;[3] only awakening the Rinnegan restores the eye's vision.[6] Because the Uchiha prized their Sharingan, to lose it in this way prompted them to label it kinjutsu.[7]

Because Uchiha only possess half of the Sage's chakra, they can only keep Izanagi active for a few seconds.[3] To maximise Izanagi's duration, it is necessary to recreate the Sage's chakra by also having genetic material of the Sage's other descendants, the Senju.[5]Danzō Shimura receives both Uchiha and Senju implants, allowing him to use Izanagi for one minute. As this is still not very long, he has ten Sharingan implanted in his right arm, giving him up to ten minutes' worth of Izanagi with breaks in between as he chooses.[8] Since he is not an Uchiha, each use of Izanagi causes Danzō's chakra to drop significantly.[9]Obito Uchiha, because he has control over the Senju cells he uses, is able to keep a single Izanagi active for significantly longer than Danzō.[10]

As with other Sharingan-based techniques, Izanagi can be programmed to activate under certain conditions. Madara Uchiha did so to undo his death after he'd been entombed, restoring him to life unbeknownst to anyone.[11]

==================================================

III. Speed of the Uchiha.

The Raikage should be easily Sub-Relativistic and is faster than Kakashi who as a kid could cut and react to lightning.

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The databook later supports it by stating he is near Lightspeed, which I take as Sub-Relativistic bare minimum since "near" could mean as low as 1% considering just how fast Light is in general.

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KCM1 Naruto later managed to dodge and outspeed the Raikage's fastest punch.

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Making him Relativistic for this feat alone.

Madara proceeded to casually react and deflect the attacks of a much superior version of Naruto.

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Madara was also able to react to Tsunade and Raikage teleporting at Lightspeed in from him and attempting a blitz which was unsuccessful.

With this technique, Mabui is able to transport objects anywhere at the speed of light. When being transferred, the object is engulfed in light and moves to any desired destination through a narrow beam, reminiscent of a bolt of lightning.

Calcs put this at the Relativistic range in speed https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlexSoloVaAlFuturo/Naruto_-_I_Have_No_Comments

Madara should be Relativistic at this point.

==================================================

IV. Conclusion

Overall, Madara is a versatile and powerful character that is skilled enough to destroy thousands of shinobi in battle by himself, he can create Giant Flames, create up to 25 clones or more, he has precognition, he can summon humanoid structures that send mountain tops flying with air pressure, spam meteors the size of an island and more...

Overall I have confidence the Legendary Uchiha has got this battle in his favor

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Thanks for Reading Folks.

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gdara

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Well

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#40  Edited By Eazy_Pezy

Pioneering the "Heavenly Yaksha": Donquixote Doflamingo

“Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!”~Donquixote Doflamingo
“Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!”~Donquixote Doflamingo

Subjugater of Dressrosa Kingdom, Shichibukai appointee, Joker, The Heavenly Demon...some of the accomplishments, aliases and titles of the enigmatic menace known as Donquixote Doflamingo. He served as Luffy's first serious challenge of the new world. I'll be representing him in this CaV where fan favourite villians go toe-to-toe.

(Just like Luffy I may refer to Doflamingo as "Doffy" sometimes)

To commence let's look at his abilities:

Ito Ito no mi and Haki

▪︎Ito Ito no mi(Basic devil fruit abilities):

The Ito Ito no mi or the String String fruit is one of many paramecia devil fruits in Onepiece. Once consumed the fruit grants its user the ability to control and create exceptionally durable strings with very small cross sectional areas so much so that they can be attached to cloud particles which are about 20 microns wide and proficient observation haki users like Sanji fail to detect them. Putting together the minute(small) size and sturdiness of these strings is what also gives them good piercing and cutting capabilities. These strings can be used in a variety of ways including:

Parasite: created using the fruits ability, the user attaches small strings behind the cervical spine of an opponent to which they can proceed to control their victim like a Marionette(dolls with strings attached to them). These strings can be fired in multitudes with quick succession:

No Caption Provided

and are fast enough to traverse the island of Dressrosa in moments.

Spiderweb: the user makes what is a spiderweb with strings for defense.

Sky's Path: pseudo flight can be achieved by attaching strings to clouds.

Overheat: conjures an extremely long flaming hot string used for offense.

Five Color Strings, Athelete, Bullet string and Fretsaw: All techniques with mostly offensive applications.

Black Knight: Doflamingo creates a clone out of compressed strings.

Bird Cage: by releasing a numerous amount of extremely long strings from his palm or previously created string constructs(like the Black Knight), a bird cage shaped dome is formed over a large area.

No Caption Provided

Awakening(Secondary devil fruit ability): Once the string string fruit is awakened its user can turn all non-living things and substances into strings. These strings can be used offensively or defensively.

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▪︎Haki:

Doflamingo is capable of using all three types of Haki but for this debate I'll be focusing on only two:

Observation haki: it is essentially pseudo precognition efficient enough to allow Luffy(a slight inferior to Doflamingo when comparing base stats) to dodge light beams and even call them slow. Databook goes on to add more consistency by stating only good observation haki users can react to Kizaru(The speed of light Admiral).

Armament haki: users can coat any part of their bodies with a spiritual armour that can be used for either offense amplification or defense.

The Jokers Assault(AP/Physicals)

Doflamingo's AP(with and without his Devil fruit), Speed and Durability will be covered in this section so let's talk about AP. Reading your post Gdara I saw where you mentioned and cited a calculation for Madara having Large Island level AP by virtue of cutting down mountains with air pressure in his perfect susanoo form.

Well what if I told you Doflamingo scales above a superior version of that feat?

Feat 1(Standard Ito Ito no mi>Madara): Let us take a look at a feat performed by Dracule Mihawk at Marineford:

No Caption Provided

Quite a visually stunning feat but to understand how impressive it is some context is needed:

-The frozen tsunami you see in the scan is clearly towering over the clouds by roughly 4 times. Those clouds look a lot like Cumulus clouds(a safe assumption too since those types of clouds form at the lowest altitudes) which form at a height of 1.1km on average(1.1km×4=4.4km). By your own admission PS Madara stands at only hundreds of meters tall and even so is quite comparable to the mountains he is cutting.

-The air pressure of Mihawk's swing carried more than half of the whole structure into the air(contrary to Madara's feat which only took the top half of the mountains which have a lot less volume) while also fragmenting it:

Also notice how the fragments are pretty comparable to Marine warships which are extremely massive in their own right.
Also notice how the fragments are pretty comparable to Marine warships which are extremely massive in their own right.

-The structure being cut is composed of Aokiji's Ice which has shown itself to be far more durable than ordinary ice as Zoro(who cut steel many chapters prior more specifically at the Alabasta arc) was unable to cut it and it being able to support a majority of the battles at the summit war of which many powerful combatants(many of which are dozens of times stronger than Alabasta Zoro) partook in.

Clearly a better feat than Madara's PS slash but now how does Doflamingo benefit from this? Well you see Doflamingo's strings were strong enough to hold Diamond Jozu in place. A behemoth with enough physical might to stop an energized attack from Mihawk and deflect it(energized as in we see a visible destructive aura travel out of Mihawk's blade which would mean this attack is superior in potency to the iceberg cutting one he performs with merely air pressure).

In short, Doflamingo's strings>Diamond Jozu(stopped energized attack from Mihawk)>Mihawk using air pressure>Perfect Susanoo's strongest attack(Large Island level as per the calculation you cited).

Feat 2(AP without devil fruit and alternative devil fruit AP): The feat in question is Don Chinjao splitting apart the ice continent and i'll be using it gauge Doflamingo's physicals and AP. Before I begin let me just say that I could have just settled for "Feat 1" as my AP since by virtue of Doflamingo's strings scaling above Madara's feat they are already at least country level but that would only scale to his strings and I don't exactly support the use of a random calc found online because you can easily just pick any of the numerous calcs for that same feat to fit your narrative(I'll talk more on this below but you should try to do your own calcs or have something you can back up).

Ok that by the side here is the feat:

No Caption Provided

I'll be calculating the K.E(energy output/AP) of the feat but first I'll need to acquire all the parameters for this calc:

-Area of the Ice Mass: The size of the ice mass is a wildly debated topic even within the Onepiece debating community but I see no reason as to why it should be when it's stated to be and referenced(Sai's statement is a direct call back to Chinjao's feat) as a continent multiple times:

No Caption Provided

~Preemptive question: "b-but it was called a mass of ice in the guidebook"

Ans: You see the term "mass of ice" does not in any way quantify the size of the landmass. "The earth is a mass of mostly solid elements and water"...see how that statement says nothing about our planets size?~

But just to be conservative still I'll be using the area of Australia(the smallest continent) which is 7,692,000 km²(or 7,692,000,000,000 m²)

-Density of the Ice: For it's density I'll be using the same density as Osmium alloy(one of the most dense alloys known) and I'll also show you why doing this is still lowballing. Osmium alloy is an extremely dense metal having it's compressive strength(amount of pressure required to crush a substance) to be approximately 600,000 psi or 421,841,747.78 kg/m².

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600,000 psi is actually equivalent to 117,142,671 or 1.17×10⁸ joules of energy which is also the amount of force capable of destroying a building. Now where am I going with this? Well after Chinjao lost his drill to Garp, he was unable to crack open that same continent:

No Caption Provided

Which is just absolutely crazy since out of prime Chinjao can stalemate gear 2nd Luffy(more than a hundred chapters ago, Luffy could oneshot a Pacifista with gear 2nd which are cyborgs of superior build to Franky who tanked this):

No Caption Provided

All this leads to the conclusion that the Ice Sheet was able to no sell an attack from a character who was at least mountain level. Now you should understand why using the density of Osmium alloy(which can broken down with a force equivalent to destroying a building) as the density for this Ice is extremely safe and even a lowball. Density of Osmium alloy is 22,590 kg/m³.

-Depth/Height of the Ice: This shouldn't take so much time as you can see in the scan below by eyeballing the ice should be at least 100m high:

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-Velocity: specifically I'll be using constant velocity(won't change the end result much)."Velocity=Distance/Time" so to find distance let's look at the original scan:

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Comparing the Chinjao(Chinjao stands at 5.2m) to the distance of the amount the fissure that has just opened(red line), we can say it should be about 10.4m at least. I'll divide this distance by two since each half of the continent would have to move half the distance so 5.2m and for our timeframe, 2 seconds is fine as the split it's pretty instantaneous. So velocity would be 5.2÷2=2.6m/s.

Now we have everything we need to get to business.

Mass=Area×Depth×Density or Volume×Density(this formula is derived from Density=Mass/Volume)

=7,692,000,000,000×100×22,590

=1.7376228e+19 kg or 1.74×10¹⁹ kg

K.E=0.5×m×v²=0.5×1.74×10¹⁹×2.6²

= 5.8812e+19 or 5.8812×10¹⁹ joules which is island level.

Using gear 3rd Luffy morphed Don Chinjao's head back to it's original state after Garp caved it in years prior. Such a feat would require Large island level striking power from Luffy taking the durability of Chinjao's head to be island level as newton's third law states, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". Simply put if you punch a wall with 3N of force your fist will receive 3N of force...same would apply to Chinjao.

Doflamingo's strings are capable of blocking attacks from gear 3 Luffy:

No Caption Provided

Which should serve as consistency for Doflamingo's string strength being large island level-small country level.

His base physicals shouldn't scale too far off from gear 3rd Luffy seeing as he can block gear 2nd attacks like they are nothings and even damage Luffy in that form. Island level+ AP physicals should be fair.

Feat 3(Awakening):With Awakening he's blocked attacks from gear 4 Luffy:

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Gear 4 attacks(small country level)>Gear 3 attacks(large island level as I've shown).

Doflamingo can also add haki to these to further amplify their durability and potency.

▪︎SPEED:

What is likely his fastest technique Overheat is what I'll be using to attain Doffy's combat speed. Some credit to Shirso for this part as he is the one who brought it to light.

The Overheat technique was fast enough to reach Dressrosa from Green Bit almost instantly:

This distance is quite massive as Dressrosa is dotted with mountains, yet these mountains can't even be made out on the horizon from a decent elevation close to Green Bit (for example here and here), but there's an even easier and clear cut way to gauge this distance. Not even Viola who can literally use a bird's eye view to see everything within a 2500 miles/4000 km roughly diameter can make out Green Bit in the horizon at all:

No Caption Provided

Something also made very clear in the anime...

No Caption Provided

...and backed by the fact Viola had no idea of the important events going on in Green Bit at all, with Doffy and the others going at it.

Just for context, Viola was in the North Eastern part of Dressrosa and the Thousand Sunny was sailing towards Green Bit when she tried to scout for the ship, so Green Bit would definitely be in her line of sight, and yet it was not even visible on the horizon, this when Green Bit itself has giant trees dotting its shore, which should make it far easier to spot.

Conservatively, assuming a distance of 4000 km and a time frame of 1 second gives about Mach 11,400 or Sub-Relativistic.

Reacting to this level of speed is casual for the likes of Law (who saved Sanji from it at the last second and again reacts to it, catching it with his sword the very next chapter) or base Luffy the former the who was blitzed by Doflamingo mid combat and the latter had his attack statued by him. (Doflamingo>Law>Sub Relativistic attack)

Doffy in a very weakened state also managed to dodge an attack from Gear 4th Luffy who just moments prior had blitzed him from more than half a town away.

scans are in reverse order.

Doflamingo's combat/reaction speed should be about Relativistic+ comfortably.

▪︎DURABILITY:

Easily Country level. From taking multiple Gear 4 attacks(which are superior to Gear 3 attacks) in a weakened state(just had a long exhausting battle with Luffy and Law and took severe internal damage from Law's gamma knife) and even after all that he still got blasted with a King Kong Gun and didn't get K'Oed.

COUNTERS & DEBUNKS

N.B: Anything I didn't address was because I thought it too irrelevant but you can call me back on it if it is indeed useful.

He has arsenal is nothing to scoff at either, he can make gigantic flames that forced multiple shinobi to use water style together.

Water 7 Luffy can already tank explosions comparable(if not superior) to that so not sure how this is going to be relevant to Doflamingo at all...

He can create corporeal clones that have the same techniques as he has.

They are a lot weaker than Madara who himself is outclassed by Doflamingo in physicals.

He can summon Wood Style: Deep Forest Bloom a technique that spawns flowering trees around the battlefield and releases pollen that can cause the people who inhale it to lose consciousness

Observation Haki+Flight. He could also turn them to strings which should neutralise the spread of pollen or dice them up from a distance.

He has a War Fan casually deflecting Mini Bijuu Bombs, which is a compressed version of a normal TBB that can vaporize Mountain ranges with ease.

With the properties of the War Fan I believe this scaling may be slightly invalid.

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Translation:

うちは返し

Uchiha Gaeshi

忍術

Ninjutsu

使用者:うちは オビト/うちはマダラ

Users: Obito Uchiha/Madara Uchiha

攻, 防, 近

Offensive, Defensive, Close Range

その扇万物を受け荒ぶる逆風と化す !!

The fan transforms all things that it defends into a rough adverse wind !!

団扇は火を扱ううちは一族の家紋。マダラが携える団扇は、代々の長が受け継ぎし一族の象微であり、霊樹より削り出されし特異なる法具でもある。この団扇は、チャクラを吸収し風性質変に換する特性を持つ。れこを利用し、敵が放て術しを暴風に転じ返す---それこそ[うちは返し]の本質。マダラは戦国時代、数多の放出系忍術をひと扇ぎの下に屠ったものである。

Uchiha Clan family crest while dealing with fire is the Uchiwa. The Uchiwa carried by Madara is a clan emblem inherited generation after generation, and is also a peculiar tool(ritual implements) carved from spiritual trees/woods. This Uchiwa has the property of absorbing chakra and convert it into wind nature. Using this, the enemy releases the technique and turns it into a windstorm --- that's the essence of [UCHIHA GAESHI]. During the Warring States period, Madara slaughtered numerous ninjutsu groups releasing ninjutsu downward a fan.

↑第四次忍界大戦のひと幕。マダラの団扇はナルトの ''尾獣玉'' を吸収。

↑One act of the Fourth Shinobi World War. Madara's Uchiwa absorbs Naruto's "Bijuudama".

↑一瞬にして風の性質に変換。暴風がナルトに吹き荒れる !!

↑Instantly transformed into the Wind Nature. A rough windstorm blows over Naruto !!

Credit to @joviolma for this translation.

The fan is capable of absorbing Chakra and changing it into wind nature which is then used to blow back the opposition. Infact we see Naruto himself wondering why his attack doesn't explode:

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Seems like the fan effectively neutralizes most if not all the force behind the attack. What's more is that Madara even needing the fan at all to block the attack indicates he likely wouldn't have resisted it with bare physicals.

And can casually slice through the God Tree which was restraining Naruto who deflected multiple TBB's in the same form that vaporized mountains.

An unexploded TBB does not have the same potency as an exploded one...how did you even come to this conclusion?

His eyes which are called the Sharingan have the capability to predict an opponent's next move and act to counter it, the Sharingan in general has more abilities than just this.

Pretty inferior to Observation haki. While the Sharingan makes predictions based on slight body movements/muscle tension, Observation haki allows the user to know how, where and when an attack is coming without even making eye contact(bordering on precognition):

Rayleigh knows how and where the Elephants attack is coming from while having his back turned.
Rayleigh knows how and where the Elephants attack is coming from while having his back turned.
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Pseudo-Precognition>Predictions based on gestures.

And finally, it's most commonly used ability, the power to make others see illusions with eye contact called Genjutsu which can affect a person's five senses

People under Genjutsu can be tricked into believing they are in pain or straight up make them believe they are not in one, Victims of Genjutsu will either stand still or moved under what the Genjutsu is making them believe.

Madara has the Mangekyo Sharingan which is above >>>>> Normal Sharingan >>>>>>Common Genjutsu

It can also cause hallucinations and knock people out.

Being an in-character battle it's very unlikely that Madara would use genjutsu off the bat. He's shown to be an fighter who favors physical prowess in combat over anything. But then again even if he decided to use it, the Sharigan's genjutsu requires direct eye contact(for example Kakashi being unable to cast a Genjutsu on Zabuza because of his mist techniques obstructing any possible eye contact) to cast which would be virtually impossible for someone like Doffy who is always wearing his heavily tinted glasses at all times:

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Unless you want to bring up Izanami and Izanagi(techniques Madara would never use in a combat situation in-character) or assume Madara can put Doflamingo in a genjutsu with his finger akin to Itachi even though he has never displayed such an ability with the story also making it clear that Itachi's genjutsu prowess in unmatched, then I'd be interested in knowing how Madara would place Doflamingo in a genjutsu even though he can't make eye contact with him and it's very improbable for him to use it in the first place.

Madara himself should have no travel seeing Doflamingo's Strings considering a much weaker Uchiha than him did this feat with a less evolved Sharingan

I'm guessing this is your counter to parasite well it doesn't work for a few reasons. The human eye can track objects as small as a grain of sand moving at like 1 m/s but any faster and it becomes impossible to track. Deidara's bomb being comparable to cells and Doflamingo's strings being able to attach themselves to clouds particles put their sizes in the 2 digit micrometer range. The only difference is Deidara's microbombs are usually almost always stationary/being carried by air or in the scan you post being carried by blood both speeds which pale in comparison to Parasites strings being able to traverse the entire island of dressrosa in moments. See where I'm going with this? If you can't provide any feats for the Sharingan being able to track objects in the micrometers capable of traversing hundreds of metres easily then unfortunately Madara effectively has no counter to parasite. Not to mention parasite can also be produced in multitudes while being fired in rapid succession.

One of Madara's greatest abilities in his arsenal is the Susanoo.

He has the ability to summon a giant humanoid-like structure that he can control freely and is equipped with swords for fighting. His clones are capable of also using this.

With his awakening and already established AP superiority to Madara, Doflamingo crushes any clone Susanoos with ease.

And finally, it can evolve to the Perfect Susanoo.

Easily Hundreds of Meters in Height alone, equipped with a sword that can not only slice mountain tops but also send it flying with just air pressure alone.

Such a feat can go as far as being calculated to be Large Island lvl in AP. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:M3X/Madara_Perfect_Susano_AP

Established AP difference leads to Doffy overpowering the Susanoo(with or without Awakening).

As for durability, weaker Susanoos can tank the Hirudorawhich easily dwarfed an island.

AoE=/=Potency.

An Incomplete Susanoo also survived the Juubi's Tenpachi while being in the middle of it.

The Tenpachi is this.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Arc7Kuroi/Juubi_Bijuudama_DT_Redux_Among_Other_Things...#Tenpachii

Most calcs like the one above puts this cataclysm at Country lvl.

Again with the calcs...anyways the calc you cited calculates the crater left behind after the cataclysm which was a rapid succession of massive tornadoes and lightning strikes ranging from city/mountain level over a vast area so Madara can't scale to it. Although he would definitely scale to the initial shockwave unleashed by the juubi which did this:

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Which seems more like island level.

By using the Susanoo Madara can make it use a hand sign that can summon Meteors this size. This meteor was stopped by a combination of Ohnoki and Gaara's Sand. Ohnoki for reference can casually lift an Island earlier on the series. It was eventually all useless as Madara proved that he was able to casually spam the attack. These meteors alone based on the fact it took Ohnoki and Gaara to stop one, should make it easily bare minimum Island lvl in AP.

I have some issues with the Onoki scaling but I'll leave it for now. The attack is pretty slow so Doflamingo can just fly out it's range and he can slice it up with his Birdcage(AP difference or to be a bit more in depth the Birdcage negate it's kinetic energy):

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Also I thought you had the meteor at country level but it seems like you've changed it. Wouldn't have made a difference though since the Birdcage has a feat in which it negs a country level meteor but I'll save it for later.

The Raikage should be easily Sub-Relativistic and is faster than Kakashi who as a kid could cut and react to lightning. The databook later supports it by stating he is near Lightspeed, which I take as Sub-Relativistic bare minimum since "near" could mean as low as 1% considering just how fast Light is in general. KCM1 Naruto later managed to dodge and outspeed the Raikage's fastest punch. Making him Relativistic for this feat alone. Madara proceeded to casually react and deflect the attacks of a much superior version of Naruto.

Madara deflected the mini TBB because of the War fan's ability not due to physicals let's just get that clear.

Madara was also able to react to Tsunade and Raikage teleporting at Lightspeed in from him and attempting a blitz which was unsuccessful.

With this technique, Mabui is able to transport objects anywhere at the speed of light. When being transferred, the object is engulfed in light and moves to any desired destination through a narrow beam, reminiscent of a bolt of lightning.

Calcs put this at the Relativistic range in speed https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:AlexSoloVaAlFuturo/Naruto_-_I_Have_No_Comments

Madara should be Relativistic

Both Madara and Doflamingo seem to be very similar when it comes to speed but Observation haki gives Doflamingo the edge over him especially when it comes to reaction speed.

Winner by Probability

To further cement Doflamingo's win I'll be creating 3 different scenarios in which both Doflamingo and Madara use similar abilities and see who is more likely to win. Being an in-character battle the following techniques are likely what Doflamingo and Madara will chose to begin with

Scenario 1(1 hit K.O):

Madara(Genjutsu) vs Doflamingo(Decapitation)=Doflamingo. Unfortunately Ocular genjutsu cannot work or be casted if proper eye contact isn't made which Madara cannot attain against Doflamingo. While Madara tries to use genjutsu, Doflamingo does this with a hand gesture:

No Caption Provided

Scenario 2(No 1 hit K.O's and opponents aren't using their strongest abilities):

Madara(standard Ninjutsu) vs Doflamingo(standard Ito Ito no mi abilities)=Doflamingo. Most of Madara's standard Ninjutsu techniques are useless against Doffy so he has to fall back on physicals which Doflamingo would dominate in.

Scernario 3(All out brawl although unlikely):

Madara(Perfect Susanoo) vs Doflamingo(Awakening)=Doflamingo. If I have to say AP difference again...

CONCLUSION

What more is there to say Doflamingo obliterates the Uchiha ghost.

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Nice post.

Get ready for counter in a few hours.

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Taep

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Bump again

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"The Ghost of the Uchiha" Madara Uchiha

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=================================================

I. Addressing your Counters.

Water 7 Luffy can alreadytank explosions comparable(if not superior) to that so not sure how this is going to be relevant to Doflamingo at all...

He burnt parts of the World Tree with it.

They are a lot weaker than Madara who himself is outclassed by Doflamingo in physicals.

Madara's Wood Clones cannot be told apart from him and they can use all his jutsu like Susanoo.

No Caption Provided

Observation Haki+Flight. He could also turn them to strings which should neutralise the spread of pollen or dice them up from a distance.

He could probably use Banshou Tenin to force the Flying Doffy toward him.

https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Bansh%C5%8D_Ten%27in

With the properties of the War Fan I believe this scaling may be slightly invalid.

The fan is capable of absorbing Chakra and changing it into wind nature which is then used to blow back the opposition. Infact we see Naruto himself wondering why his attack doesn't explode:

No Caption Provided

Seems like the fan effectively neutralizes most if not all the force behind the attack. What's more is that Madara even needing the fan at all to block the attack indicates he likely wouldn't have resisted it with bare physicals.

The fan still failed to be broken before deflecting it despite Naruto's mini Bijuu bomb.

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An unexploded TBB does not have the same potency as an exploded one...how did you even come to this conclusion?

Naruto was defenseless against the world tree even tho he has TBB's and casual scaling to country level, Madara cut through it casually, it's not even that complex of a scaling, the deflecting TBB's thing is not the only thing to prove it.

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Pretty inferior to Observation haki. While the Sharingan makes predictions based on slight body movements/muscle tension, Observation haki allows the user to know how, where and when an attack is coming without even making eye contact(bordering on precognition):

Pseudo-Precognition>Predictions based on gestures.

Not making eye contact for Doffy is a necessity or he would be under Genjutsu.

Madara will look at him and it would go in his favor so needing to look at him is not a disadvantage but rather completely normal and even benefitting in situations.

Being an in-character battle it's very unlikely that Madara would use genjutsu off the bat. He's shown to be an fighter who favors physical prowess in combat over anything. But then again even if he decided to use it, the Sharigan's genjutsu requires direct eye contact(for example Kakashi being unable to cast a Genjutsu on Zabuza because of his mist techniques obstructing any possible eye contact) to cast which would be virtually impossible for someone like Doffy who is always wearing his heavily tinted glasses at all times:

Unless you want to bring up Izanami and Izanagi(techniques Madara would never use in a combat situation in-character) or assume Madara can put Doflamingo in a genjutsu with his finger akin to Itachi even though he has never displayed such an ability with the story also making it clear that Itachi's genjutsu prowess in unmatched, then I'd be interested in knowing how Madara would place Doflamingo in a genjutsu even though he can't make eye contact with him and it's very improbable for him to use it in the first place.

Scan 1: Madara using Genjutsu on Fodder.

Scan 2: Madara using Genjutsu against one of the most powerful physical fighters.

Also, are you trying to say that due to Doffy's glasses every fight he has ever had was with low vision?

Madara used the Izanagi after he died from Hashirama and if you're asking why he didn't use it during the war that's because he had no reason to use it especially as an Edo, Obito a less experienced person than Madara used it when he was about to get vaporized.

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I'm guessing this is your counter to parasite well it doesn't work for a few reasons. The human eye can track objects as small as a grain of sand moving at like 1 m/s but any faster and it becomes impossible to track. Deidara's bomb being comparable to cells and Doflamingo's strings being able to attach themselves to clouds particles put their sizes in the 2 digit micrometer range. The only difference is Deidara's microbombs are usually almost always stationary/being carried by air or in the scan you post being carried by blood both speeds which pale in comparison to Parasites strings being able to traverse the entire island of dressrosa in moments. See where I'm going with this? If you can't provide any feats for the Sharingan being able to track objects in the micrometers capable of traversing hundreds of metres easily then unfortunately Madara effectively has no counter to parasite. Not to mention parasite can also be produced in multitudes while being fired in rapid succession.

Here is Sarada casually seeing Viruses with just a 2 Tomoe Sharingan.

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Also this

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With Sharingan, an Uchiha has that level of passive view range

Doflamingo uses his string to basically do most of his shit, like "flying", moving etc.

Once Madara sees Doffy is connected to those strings

Avoiding them is an easy play

Let alone Madara is easily relativistic+ by feats and scaling

AoE=/=Potency.

Size is proportional to mass in most cases and mass is directly proportional to force so until contradictions, saying Hirudora having island level force output aka that tier of DC would not be wrong.

And DC is always below AP

Again with the calcs...anyways the calc you cited calculates the crater left behind after the cataclysm which was a rapid succession of massive tornadoes and lightning strikes ranging from city/mountain level over a vast area so Madara can't scale to it. Although he would definitely scale to the initial shockwave unleashed by the juubi which did this:

No Caption Provided

Which seems more like island level.

I can still see a slight curvature on the pic so calling it should still be way above Island.

I have some issues with the Onoki scaling but I'll leave it for now. The attack is pretty slow so Doflamingo can just fly out it's range and he can slice it up with his Birdcage(AP difference or to be a bit more in depth the Birdcage negate it's kinetic energy):

No Caption Provided

Also I thought you had the meteor at country level but it seems like you've changed it. Wouldn't have made a difference though since the Birdcage has a feat in which it negs a country level meteor but I'll save it for later.

Madara can easily stop him from flying away by Banshou Tenin or just use wood clones to surround the area and make them use Tengai Shinsei, Madara's Banso Tenin can undo Dolfy's attempt at flying away and he can just spam it with clones

Also that Tengai Shinsei completely obliterated the Susanoo which has country-level durability.

The Asura Path has also shown the ability to fly so it could be a Rinnegan ability altogether.

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=================================================

II. Regarding Some Scaling

Observation Haki requires the user to be calm and focus or else the user won't be able to use it to its greatest.

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Even an Advanced CoO user like Katakuri was only able to see a single image on the future and didn't know why said event is happening.

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Doflamingo's AP(with and without his Devil fruit), Speed and Durability will be covered in this section so let's talk about AP. Reading your post Gdara I saw where you mentioned and cited a calculation for Madara having Large Island level AP by virtue of cutting down mountains with air pressure in his perfect susanoo form.

Well what if I told you Doflamingo scales above a superior version of that feat?

Feat 1(Standard Ito Ito no mi>Madara): Let us take a look at a feat performed by Dracule Mihawk at Marineford:

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Quite a visually stunning feat but to understand how impressive it is some context is needed:

-The frozen tsunami you see in the scan is clearly towering over the clouds by roughly 4 times. Those clouds look a lot like Cumulus clouds(a safe assumption too since those types of clouds form at the lowest altitudes) which form at a height of 1.1km on average(1.1km×4=4.4km). By your own admission PS Madara stands at only hundreds of meters tall and even so is quite comparable to the mountains he is cutting.

-The air pressure of Mihawk's swing carried more than half of the whole structure into the air(contrary to Madara's feat which only took the top half of the mountains which have a lot less volume) while also fragmenting it:

Also notice how the fragments are pretty comparable to Marine warships which are extremely massive in their own right.
Also notice how the fragments are pretty comparable to Marine warships which are extremely massive in their own right.

-The structure being cut is composed of Aokiji's Ice which has shown itself to be far more durable than ordinary ice as Zoro(who cut steel many chapters prior more specifically at the Alabasta arc) was unable to cut it and it being able to support a majority of the battles at the summit war of which many powerful combatants(many of which are dozens of times stronger than Alabasta Zoro) partook in.

Clearly a better feat than Madara's PS slash but now how does Doflamingo benefit from this? Well you see Doflamingo's strings were strong enough to hold Diamond Jozu in place. A behemoth with enough physical might to stop an energized attack from Mihawk and deflect it(energized as in we see a visible destructive aura travel out of Mihawk's blade which would mean this attack is superior in potency to the iceberg cutting one he performs with merely air pressure).

In short, Doflamingo's strings>Diamond Jozu(stopped energized attack from Mihawk)>Mihawk using air pressure>Perfect Susanoo's strongest attack(Large Island level as per the calculation you cited).

While I personally agree Mihawk's feat is valid I have a problem with the fact that Jozu only tanked it when he was in his Diamond Form

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Doffy's parasite only attaches itself to the spine and you can see in this next panel that Jozu was offguard and only his arms was on Diamond form when Doffy attached his strings.

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While I have some problems with the Chinjao thing as a whole, the calc you did was fine and good so I ain't gonna debunk it.

Overheat is also fine,

Same with some other shit.

To further cement Doflamingo's win I'll be creating 3 different scenarios in which both Doflamingo and Madara use similar abilities and see who is more likely to win. Being an in-character battle the following techniques are likely what Doflamingo and Madara will chose to begin with

"In-character" doesn't mean he won't use the abilities he normally doesn't when he is under pressure, Madara has shown the ability to use Genjutsu and Izanagi only once but that certainly does not mean that if he is under pressure, he would not use them once, and Izanagi makes it impossible for Doffy to kill him anyway.

Madara(Genjutsu) vs Doflamingo(Decapitation)=Doflamingo. Unfortunately Ocular genjutsu cannot work or be casted if proper eye contact isn't made which Madara cannot create against Doflamingo. While Madara tries to use genjutsu, Doflamingo does this with a hand gesture:

I still don't see a reason why Genjutsu won't work, unless Doffyy is completely blindfolded and cannot see anything, all Madara has to do is either himself or make his clone have eye contact with Doflamingo and Doflamingo pretty much loses.

Most of Madara's standard Ninjutsu techniques are useless against Doffy so he has to fall back on physicals which Doflamingo would dominate in.

Really? Because Madara's Wood style can completely no sell Rasengan barrages.

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And his wood dragon can fight Avatar Naruto and completely defeat him after few minutes.

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Or completely destroying Ohnoki's stone golem.

=================================================

III. Conclusion

Fun debate as of now, but I still believe Madara has a versatility advantage, and his AP and Speed matches Doffy, he could simply put him in a Genjutsu, if Doffy tries to fly Madara can use Bansho Tenin.

The Strategy I have as of now is for Madara to spam his versatile techniques at Doflamingo and successfully ambush him with Genjutsu since he needs to focus to use CoO.