"Inflict enough damage, take away the things he cares about, and it will all become too much. The man will eventually break. The scars you see and the ones you don't. At least, that's supposed to be the idea."
-Slade Wilson AKA Deathstroke
Introduction
Originally a soldier in the US Army, Slade Wilson volunteered for an experimental super-soldier program in which his physicals intelligence genetically altered to superhuman levels.
Sometime later he became a hired killer and quickly gained a reputation as
Deathstroke, The Terminator
Reflexes/Speed
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Casual Bullet timing, capable of evading bullets and arrows from skilled marksmen such as Deadshot Green Arrow point blank or long range without any trouble
Agillity and Movement Speed
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Scan 1-2: Blitzes couple soldiers before they can fire a single shot
Scan 3: Agile Enough to move through the blades of a fan
Scan 4: Moves across a room in an instant while evading lasers
Strength and Striking
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Scan 1: Slaps Nightwing, a guy whose physicals on par with Batman, silly with ease
Scan 2: Overpowers several armed guards
Scan 3-4: Overpowers superhumans, cyborg and Wonder Girl, with little effort
Scan 5: Oneshots a plane door with a one-handed shove
Scan 6-7: Cracks glass meant to tank missile fire with a single swing
Durrabillity(In Armor)
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Scan 1: No sells Chopper Fire
Scan 2: Tanks a fall from a tremendous height
Scan 3: No sells Green Arrow's and Speedy's arrows
Scan 4: Tanks a hit from Superboy
Scan 5: Tanks a blast from Starfire
Endurance
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Scan 1: Gets up after having a submachine gun being unloaded into his chest
Scan 2: Still kicking after being stabbed through the chest
Standard Gear Includes...
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Plasma staff that can break into two parts and be used as batons, can be spammed, and single blasts capable of obliterating several pillars of rock. Deathstroke's staff should also be able to ignore the tech panther uses to shut down general weaponry like Guns.
Has a sword that can Absorb Energy and draw blood from beings as durable as Superman with a single swipe
Has a mask that'll allow him to breathe if any gas bombs are thrown in the area by Panther or Batman
Thermal Detonators strong enough to kill elephants.
Skill and Notable Fights
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Subdues Batman and considers it a workout
Bests Batman not once but twice
Defeats 2 skilled fighters, Green Arrow and Black Canary even though they prepped for his arrival
Schools several metahumans and skilled fighters including Green Arrow, Wally West, Hawkman, the Atom, Green Lantern, and Black Canary
Strategy
Deathstroke in the past has had little trouble dealing with more than one skilled fighter at a time and coming on top with a combination of his skill and tactical mind. He can use his plasma staff and explosives, to defeat Panther and Batman are at the same time being held off by Pride's shadows. Deathstroke has already defeated Batman and top tier characters who are in the same category of skill as Batman and T'Challa using a combination of skill, speed, strength, and tactical mind.
Neither Panther's nor Batman's suit is very resistant to piercing and Deathstroke carries knives in spades. Including ones that entirely ignore Armor, one such called the Abdo blade.
which teleports through opponents, perfect for ignoring Batman's and Panther's high pain tolerance and durrabillity
Conclusion
-Deathstroke is a capable fighter, who has bested some of the most skilled combatants in his universe and combined with Pride's help Black Panther and Batman will be bested by the Badass Mercenary.
@_kingoflatveria: Nice work, although there is one part of your argument that I heavily disagree with and you won’t like the result lol. Like I said very good post though.
@_kingoflatveria: Nice work, although there is one part of your argument that I heavily disagree with and you won’t like the result lol. Like I said very good post though.
"I know that look. You're wondering... What am I waiting for? Namor's biology and genetics make him incredibly resistant to damage, but even he doesn't have the ability to simply shrug off what we--and the resulting fall from this platform--did to him. It will take a second for him to fully regain his wits... And I want him completely aware of what is about to happen to him. So we will spare him a few minutes. Because I want him to know--really know--it's over. To fully realize there's no forgiveness for what he's done. That there is a price and he's finally going to pay it--that there's no mercy for men like him, and even if there was, he doesn't get any. I want him to know this is how it ends. And more than that... I want him to know... It was me."
General Counters I: King_ Hellstorm
BP's Speed & Durability vs Pride's Shadows:
Pride's shadows are fast enough to force Ed to go on the defensive and even overwhelm him at the end (note: Ed turn his arm into a substance like Greed's shield which is how he blocked the attacks).
And of course Al is also a bullet timer like his brother, but instead of dodging bullets here is a scan of him blocking bullets from Father while he has across the room.
TL;DR Pride's shadows can tag and overwhelm bullet timers.
I have to hand it to you, Pride is fast, impressively fast. And while the speed of his shadows is nothing to laugh at, I believe Black Panther has the speed to not only evade but even possibly outpace the shadows. Now I realize you stated that Ed is able to match with casual bullet-timers; but are they faster than the likes of Karnak, Iron Fist or Spiderman?
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Iron Fist V3 #1, Uncited, ASM #637
The reason I ask this is because Black Panther has been able to easily keep up with all three of these characters and even outpace them in their fights/battles:
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Scan 1: Dodges all of Iron Fist's attacks during their battle not taking a single hit during IF's first attempted blitz/attack. (Black Panther Vol.3 #39)
Scan 2: Casually dodges and one-shots Karnak before he could react. (Black Panther Vol. 4 #20)
Scan 3: Surprises Symbiote Spider-Man with his speed and pins him momentarily. (Spider-Man/Human Torch #4)
You also stated that Pride's main strategy will be to overwhelm T'challa from multiple angles:
The strat is simple really, overwhelm the Panther.
But coupled with his speed, Panther is extremely agile and is not stranger to dodging attacks from multiple directions and angles:
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Scan 1: Dodges multiple energy daggers from multiple angles thrown by Malice. (Black Panther Vol.3 #33)
Scan 2-3: Using speed and agility, dodges all of the Trapster's traps and weaponry, not taking a single blow. (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #548)
The other half of this equation is the functionality of T'challa's Vibranium Suit. The Suit is extremely difficult to pierce, given the innate property of Vibranium that absorbs kinetic energy and in the face of piercing weapons it robs them of their momentum, slowing them down and significantly decreasing the amount of damage they do, rendering most ranged attacks near useless:
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Scan 1: Vibranium boots/soles rob the momentum and stop a car thrown by Savage Hulk. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #15)
Scan 2: Vibranium Suit absorbs the force and impact of a point blank RPG, absorbs it, and redirects the kinetic energy and force as a energy blast. (Black Panther Vol. 6 #3)
Scan 3: The Suit absorbs point blank gunfire from several machine guns at once while Panther is pinned. He takes no damage. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #7)
Scan 4: The Suit can't be pierced/stabbed by bladed weaponry. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #1)
Scan 5-6: Suit absorbs and redirects, and projects from the force and energy of Ezekiel Stane's energy projection. (Black Panther Vol. 6 #7)
I'd be willing to argue that since according to your statement that Pride can't easily cut through anything above carbon in durability:
Pride's shadows can cut through basically anything that isn't made out of carbon. Like a massive tree.
With the mesh throughout the suit and its properties that allow it to rob attacks of their momentum and absorb kinetic energy around it, that even if BP is hit, he should be able to take it just fine. I see Pride having an incredibly hard time of piercing T'challa's suit. Especially if sticks with the tactic of trying to pierce directly and not cut across the grain of the suit.
TL;DR Anything that isn't Vibranium will likely get sliced.
Unfortunately despite Pride's great strength, Panther's entire suit is laced with Vibranium meaning he will have an incredibly tough time, like I mentioned before getting through the suit. Do the shadows have any inherent durability feats, because I am willing to bet that Panther can use his Anti-metal claws to slice right through them given their being made of ANtartic Vibranium and already able to easily shred most metals:
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Scan 1: Anti-Metal Claws destroy and shred through Deadpool's swords on contact. (Deadpool Vol.4 #15)
Scan 2: Stated to cut through all metals and break them down on a molecular level. Shreds through suits designed by Tony Stark (Black Panther Vol.3 #60)
Scan 3: Anti-metal Claws are capable of damaging Iron Man and cutting through his armor. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #42)
Or he can use the energy daggers to supplement this as well given that they can easily slice through government forged metal like butter or based on the fact that even his energy daggers can pierce an alternate universe Terrax:
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New Avengers Vol.3 #5
So I am willing to bet that with this, Panther along with being able to evade Pride's shadows, will be able to outright slice through them or even repel them. And if Pride decides to go big or somehow gets T'challa into an unfavorable position, he can always just teleport and proceed to deal major damage:
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New Avengers Vol.3 #1
Panther teleports three times here mid-combat, so he definitely isn't afraid to do it.
Which is a given, since Gluttony was able to heal from all this damage (and since their regen comes from their stones, not only does Pride have the same level of healing but he should be much more potent, given the fact that he consumed 2 other stones asides from the one Father gave him).
Asides from the regen and the speed, Pride also has an enhanced sense of smell thanks to him eating Gluttony's philosopher stone. With his senses he claims that he is able to smell movement
Impressive, but it seems like it takes him time to actually smell his opponent and find them. In the video you posted it took him a few seconds to detect Al's exact location it seems. Those few seconds won't be afforded against T'challa who is faster than Al and will be hitting Pride much harder than Al would. Besides does Pride have any answer to nerve strikes or if Panther throws an energy dagger to scramble his brain?
Black Panther Vol. 4 #30
TL;DR Pride is fast, has a crazy healing factor and can detect you wherever you are. So even if you get passed his shadows you will be hard pressed to actually put him down, and you can't rely on stealth either.
Well tbh it seems like Pride has to focus to use his sense of smell for detection, although I'm sure he has even better feats with his sense of smell, plus Panther won't be detectable by sight or sound in his suit so he would really have to focus in order to try and find him, and T'challa can use that to his advantage by constantly stay on the move. Teleporting is also a huge factor that I don't see Pride having a ready counter for. In addition you haven't really presented any physical durability feats against nerve strikes and pressure points for Pride and unless he has feats of something like that, i'm willing to bet Panther can KO him that way fairly quickly since he was even able to use nerve strikes to great effect on Luke Cage (who should be more durable than Pride) while T'challa was depowered in Black Panther: The Man Without Fear #517:
Strategy Counters: Black Panther vs Pride
The strat is simple really, overwhelm the Panther. See there are 3 things Pride unarguably has over BP and they are:
1. Morals. Pride will not hold back at all, he will fight dirty and do whatever it takes. BP will hold back, even more towards Pride since he is just a kid.
I doubt that morals are a significant advantage, Pride is an enemy and despite being a child he is also clearly non-human. I don't see why Black Panther will hold back when he was part of a plan that authorized the destruction of the city of Atlantis: which included Atlantean men, women, and children.
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New Avengers Vol. 3 #8
Note that T'challa only argued for not doing this because of his and Namor's previous agreement of being allies to deal with the Incursions, and even said in the previous issue that were it not for the Incursions he would surely refuse the peace offering. He also did not fight that hard against the plan and even killed Namor himself later in the run. Pride is an enemy, nothing more, so even being a child, I don't believe Panther will hold back, especially after seeing his true nature.
RPS. I didn't know what to call this but Pride can attack BP a lot more times in a second that BP can attack Pride, and Pride can do it from any/all angles.
I have shown by now that Panther not only has the speed, but the agility, dexterity, gear, and skills to deal with Pride's shadows. In addition just because Pride may be able to attack more often due to his multiple shadows, does not mean he can put BP down easier. In fact I would argue that T'challa has better all around durability and would be able to KO him with an energy dagger or a well placed nerve strike/pp.
He is not a human. BP is amazing but he still tiers, he is just a man after all. But Pride is not, neither him or his shadows will slow down or get exhausted, no matter how long the battle Pride can keep up the pace he started with.
Exactly, Pride is not human, why would BP hold back against a non-human even if it has the form of a child?. But aside from that Black Panther's endurance is pretty great, he once fought with Killmonger off and on for over 13 hours. I doubt this battle will last that long at all, i doubt this will last even close to an hour. And T'challa can definitely go full steam on for over two hours. So while that's a solid argument, it doesn't work given T'challa superhuman characteristics and willpower.
But that isn't all, BP also has one major weakness against Pride and that is cutting durability. See BP has good cutting durability against normal knives, but he can be cut if you are strong enough and cut the right places as seen here.
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Exploiting all three advantages and the weakness means Pride will just keep attacking BP from all angles until he kills him, plain and simple.
So here's the thing with this. Your second scan is Nakia/Malice using Vibranium weapons, which all Dora Mijale have/wield. However with Kraven and Sabertooth, there is a key difference than the argument you're making. You have to specifically cut across the grain of the suit to cut through it, and you have to be attacking from an incredibly close range for your attacks not to be weakened by the innate vibranium properties of the suit, like Kraven and Sabertooth were. Pride won't be that close, and doesn't he like to impale his opponents rather than cut like these people would here. His fights with the Elrics should show that and besides, Panther has plenty of other gear to deal with the shadows as I have mentioned above.
General & Strategy Counters II: KingofLateveria
Not as big of a post, so not as much to say here as I thought.
Plasma staff that can break into two parts and be used as batons, can be spammed, and single blasts capable of obliterating several pillars of rock. Deathstroke's staff should also be able to ignore the tech panther uses to shut down general weaponry like Guns.
How exactly would the staff fare better than Deathstroke's guns? If you remember they disrupt energy as they even shut down Skrull weaponry and robots in the same issue that it took out the guns. Does it have any feats of resisting something like this? If not I am willing to bet that the staff is taken out too.
Schools several metahumans and skilled fighters including Green Arrow, Wally West, Hawkman, the Atom, Green Lantern, and Black Canary
Big problem with this being used here. Deathstroke had prep time for this battle in Identity Crisis. He has no feats that suggest otherwise that he could take this entire team in a straight up random encounter without some sort of prep. We don't have any prep in this scenario, so that makes this feat sort of moot.
Deathstroke in the past has had little trouble dealing with more than one skilled fighter at a time and coming on top with a combination of his skill and tactical mind.
Deathstroke has had tons of trouble dealing with just Batman nearly every time they fought. Adding an opponent who is Deathstroke's superior in skill, gear, and likely physical areas makes this a fight incredibly difficult for him to win. In addition his tactics and mind are not superior to both Bruce and T'challa.
He can use his plasma staff and explosives, to defeat Panther and Batman are at the same time being held off by Pride's shadows.
All of these have already been rendered moot by Black Panther at the start of the fight, so I don't see how Slade is using them. The only weapon he'll have is his sword and maybe his staff for melee use only.
Deathstroke has already defeated Batman and top tier characters who are in the same category of skill as Batman and T'Challa using a combination of skill, speed, strength, and tactical mind.
You haven't dealt with someone with t'challa's physicals, skill, and gear before unless you have the feats to prove otherwise so that won't hold up. I'll let my partner handle the Batman half.
Aside from this you haven't really shown any feats as to why he could deal with Black panther's gear, namely energy daggers and his AM Claws but since your main target is Bats I won't press this atm.
Neither Panther's nor Batman's suit is very resistant to piercing
In terms of Black Panther, that is just false:
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Batman also has some pretty good resistance as well, I'll leave that to my partner.
and Deathstroke carries knives in spades. Including ones that entirely ignore Armor, one such called the Abdo blade.
Yeah the Abbo Blade is not standard gear for Deathstroke, nor does he have it anymore. The Abbo Blade only appeared in the final Story arc of the N52 Ravagers book. Deathstroke received it from The Harvest and gives it back as soon as the mission ends:
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Issue 12 gives it back, Issue 10 receives it
I am not sure why you are bringing up gear that is not standard for Slade, especially one that he has only used for one instance.
which teleports through opponents, perfect for ignoring Batman's and Panther's high pain tolerance and durrabillity
Except there's no BFR in this battle right? So even if you did have it, which you don't it wouldn't be usable for you anyway.
See Wakanda and Die Part II: Panther vs Pride and Slade:
Pride:
Yes, I must admit that T'challa is a very intelligent character and he would be able to deduce Pride's powerset however I doubt it will be easy as this
Why wouldn't it be? They are his shadows right? You call them that yourself, and they come from his shadow as well. Pride is also pretty much a one-trick beastly pony. T'challa knows how shadows works, so as soon as Pride uses his powers, I am more than willing to bet that Panther can quickly figure out how he works, plus we already know the reputation of our opponents through the rules set by the OP so that's another reason BP would be able to figure him out quickly and why he won't hold back.
See, once Pride uses his shadows, there won't be any breathing room. He won't let you re-coordinate and he will certainly not allow you to pass around gear. Also, you can see above (in his scent scan) Pride can use his shadows under Al's smoke screens just fine.
As I said before Pride requires at least a few seconds to detect through smell, and he even stops using his shadows until he detected Al. Also Pride has no real answer to Black Panther's teleportation capabilities. Using that he could easily find Bats and get some flashbangs from him or just teleport and take out pride with his energy dagger or nerve strikes.
I imagine that you are assuming that Pride's shadows would be weak against them due to the nature of his powers? Because if so you would be mistaken, Pride's shadows can directly touch a source of life and not be harmed at all. It is only weak to incredibly bright lights like a flashbang.
No I mean, along with his claws he could just slice through the shadows. As far as I can tell they don't really have any durability feats, so I imagine Panther can cut through them.
Now yes, T'challa does have a shield but that won't do much good, because from the scan you showed, his shield was being shattered by bullets.
You do mention that those were powerful bullets. But a minigun is amazingly powerful as well yet Al tanks shots from one with ease while at the same time easily getting pierced by Pride's shadows, even through a thick shield (which blocked an attack from Kimblee earlier). So I doubt that BP's shield will last.
These are clearly not bullets, nor did I call them bullets, I called them firearms yes, but not bullets. These things disintegrated the human body down to the skeleton, bullets don't do that and despite Pride's power he doesn't do that either.
And as far as piercing/cutting. BP's shields have even stood up to Proxima Midnight's spear attacks in New Avengers Vol.3 #24:
So I am more than willing to bet the shield can take Pride's shadows.
So far it can turn him invisible, shut down tech, make hard light shields (seemingly less powerful than the one above based on the damage Proxima caused on the two bystanders), redirect energy and teleport.
The scan you brought up has Black Swan the one directly above this is Proxima Midnight.
But the problem is, Pride can most probably detect him via scent as you did not mention being odorless so there goes invisibility, Pride also has no tech to shut down or energy to redirect (asides from kinetic) so there goes that and as I said the hard light shield didn't seem all that durable or big. So far only teleportation would be an issue but as I showed, Pride can use massive attacks to compensate.
1. Pride still has to actually pick up Panther's scent before you can abuse that tactic and so far he isn't very fast with his detection and he hasn't really shown it when an opponent on the move as fast as BP.
2. The suit absorbs any kinetic energy and turns into energy that Panther can project, and Pride's main attack uses kinetic energy though movement so how is that gone?
3. You've severely underestimated the shield it seems as its taken very potent attacks.
4. How does a massive attack compensate for teleportation if Panther just teleports behind Pride?
TL;DR Once the shadows move BP will be attacked by an unrelenting barrage of shadows, cutting him off from doing anything else except dodging. His tricks are cool but they wouldn't buy him much time if at all.
Unfortunately that is just not the case, BP has all the methods to get around and through Pride and doesn't really have teleportation counters. He also so far doesn't have the feats to suggest he can tank an energy dagger or nerve strikes. In addition massive attacks would be a bad idea if Panther teleported to Deathstroke and made Pride hurt/kill his partner.
Slade:
-Deathstroke is a capable fighter, who has bested some of the most skilled combatants in his universe and combined with Pride's help Black Panther and Batman will be bested by the Badass Mercenary.
This doesn't really counter my strategy so I'll just post it again:
This will ensure that Slade's firearms will be just about useless to him in this fight and Panther can even dial this tech up to where they explode, but I won't push that tactic as disabling them will be more than good enough for him and Batman. Now since the teams are in-character that means Slade and Bruce will likely fight it out once more. I'll leave it to my partner to discuss that further, but this will be Panther's opening move against DS. If need be, Panther can always support Bruce by throwing some Vibranium energy grenades (Namor Fight) to distract him or teleport and flank him. In the event that Slade can somehow still use his guns Panther can always stop them with his suit and then blast him with the absorbed kinetic energy.
AM Claws and Energy daggers can deal with any of Slade's armors and kill his nerves or scramble his brain. His grenades where shown to be capable of hurting Namor so they can do serious damage when BP gives some to Bats.
Wrapping up: Concluding Thoughts
At the end of this post I have gone a bit more into what BP has and what he can do. In addition to that, I still believe these key things:
Panther can and will make Slade's Firearms useless at the beginning of the battle
He has the means to deduce the styles and tells of Slade and Pride's fighting and abilities
Can readily coordinate with Batman and get to him quickly using teleportation
Can deal and defend with Pride's main form of attack.
DS and Pride have no real answer to BP's teleportation and he can spam that to work together with Batman and lead them to victory. I look forward to your future posts!
Casual Bullet timing, capable of evading bullets and arrows from skilled marksmen such as Deadshot Green Arrow point blank or long range without any trouble
Alright, lets see your scans.
Scan 1: That could easily be aim dodging. We don’t get an exact view of when the shot fired and Slade moved, which is needed to make sure its bullet timing.
Scan 2: We aren’t given panels of when Slade ducked to dodge the bullets either
Scan 3: Same as above. Actually there seem to be 3 bullet marks on Slade’s suit, here I’ll highlight them:
That’s interesting, seems Slade got tagged by bullets during the fight.
Scan 4 to 6: Yeah, thats casual bullet timing. Tho the scan I posted with Batman dancing around bullets seems equal, or at least similar enough.
So casual bullet timing. Cool, Batman is faster. He has been FTE a couple times:
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Scan 5-1: FTE to Gordon. (Batman: Dark Victory #1)
Scan 2: FTE over a large distance. (The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #3)
Scan 3: FTE to a serial killer.
Scan 4: more FTE.
Another great feat comes from Superman/Batman #3, where Batman easily, casually reacts to the vast majority of Lady Shiva’s blows:
Shiva has humiliated Catwoman(a solid bullet timer) speedwise. Think its obvious Batman holds an advantage
Agility/Movement Speed:
Blitzes couple soldiers before they can fire a single shot
Batman snatched 7 Gangsters’ guns before they could pull the trigger. Gotham Knights #27
Agile Enough to move through the blades of a fan
Batman has the exact same feat. Batman: Dreamland
Moves across a room in an instant while evading lasers
Oh, Slade evaded lasers? FTL confirmed! . Movement speed is almost completely useless in a fight but just in case you counter this effectively:
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Scan 1: Batman outpaces/outruns an explosion. Not precisely quantifiable but explosions are always faster than sound so its extremely impressive even if we assume the explosion is only slightly faster than sound. (Batman Incorporated Vol. 2 #6)
Scan 2-3: Batman ounruns some heat seeking missiles. Not precisely quantifiable either but the slowest heat seeking missile is mach 0.3ish.
Before you scream “OUTLIER HURR DURR”, its only an outlier if you find more than 2 anti-feats to go against this.
Idc about movement speed but Batman should hold a slight edge agility wise. Considering that he snatched 7 Gangsters’ guns before they could pull the trigger, while that first feat for Slade didn’t have him blitzing 7 people.
Strength and Striking Power
Slaps Nightwing, a guy whose physicals on par with Batman, silly with ease
A. It wasn’t with as such ease as you claim. Slade seemed a bit angry, “I LOST A SON!”
B. Dick tanked that, he wasn’t much damaged.
C. Batman has better durability than Grayson by a decent chunk.
Don’t see why The Eddie Hurst durability feat and Bane wouldn’t suffice. But for some other feats, Batman tanked hits from Clayface:
Scan 2: Tanks some more from Ultimate Clayface(UC has absorbed all other Clayfaces, iirc around 11). (Shadow Of The Bat #75)
Scan 4: More of the same. (The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #22)
And If you think Slade hits harder than Clayface, I’m going to excuse myself to the giggle room. Not saying Deathstroke can’t hurt Bruce, he will but tanking it won’t be much of a problem.
Cracks glass meant to tank missile fire with a single swing
Context please. Slade stated that “everything has weak spots”, or something along those lines meaning he found a weak spot in the glass. Not much of a striking feat.
As for your strength feats, that’s not much of a factor. Not sure how it would help much.
Durability
No sells Chopper Fire
Horrible, horrible feat. I’ve shown Batman oneshotting a kobra monster, same monster no sold Deadshot’s gunfire(which are much better than regular bullets). Trinity Vol. 2 #14
So I guess you are trying to say Slade gets oneshot(LMAO).
Tanks a fall from a tremendous height
All I see is Deathstroke falling, where’s the next scan? And can you quantify how much striking power is needed to beat this, with proof? Either way, hasn’t stopped street levelers with worse striking power than Batman hurting him. For instance, Nightwing as Batman drew lots of blood from him. Titans #29
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If Nightwing can do this much damage, I’m quite confident Batman will deal worse.
No sells Green Arrow's and Speedy's arrows
A. What does a piercing durability feat have to with anything? Bats will be hitting with punches aka blunt force
B. Mr. Out Of Context, those pierced Slade. Even drew blood, I’ll highlight it:
Tanks a hit from Superboy
A. Are you implying Slade tanked a mid tier punch? If so, don’t know what to say. Top Kek
B. I don’t think Superboy would be hitting with powerful punches, he knows Slade is street lvl. Actually since Grayson could draw a lot of blood, that means Superboy was hitting Nightwing lvl.
Tanks a blast from Starfire
Going to need the next scan for this energy durability feat. Seems like he got KOed.
Endurance
Scan 1: Gets up after having a submachine gun being unloaded into his chest
I don‘t see the bullets going through him, can you get me the next scan?
Scan 2: Still kicking after being stabbed through the chest
Batman got a shovel shoved through his gut and still kept fighting Ra’s, as I’ve shown. They seem about equal in this area.
Standard Gear
Plasma staff that can break into two parts and be used as batons, can be spammed, and single blasts capable of obliterating several pillars of rock.
Not seeing anything in its blunt force hurting Batman. As for its blasts, I’ve shown Batman no selling a bazooka which should suffice but if it doesn’t, Batman was unfazed after a building explosion. Detective Comics #744-745
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And you have completely ignored my opening strategy for some reason. Don’t see why Bruce’ energy deflector and chaff grenades wouldn’t deal with this nicely.
Has a sword that can Absorb Energy and draw blood from beings as durable as Superman with a single swipe
A. Coin magnet and batarangs take care of this.
B. It only drew blood after absorbing Clark’s heat vision
C. Batman should tank this. The Batsuit gives him excellent piercing durability, not even an OMAC blade could get through. The OMAC Project #3
OMACs are high-low herald lvl, so the force behind the blade should give out high-low herald piercing.
Has a mask that'll allow him to breathe if any gas bombs are thrown in the area by Panther or Batman
Which could be easily broken through a punch
Thermal Detonators strong enough to kill elephants.
Yeah, and they damaged Lobo. Does Slade use this on street levelers? To my knowledge, Slade doesn’t waste such resources on street lvls
Skills and Notable Fights
Subdues Batman and considers it a workout
A. Meh, Batman wasn’t using gadgets much, something OOC.
B. You want to use fights to say Slade wins? Alright then.
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Sorry, image order messed up for the first instance.
Scan 1-3 then 5: Batman beats up Slade in exact same instance you showed. (Detective Comics #710)
Scan 4: Batman stomps Deathstroke and Deadshot at the same time. To be fair, Slade and Floyd were fighting each other for 5 days but they never striked each other and with Slade’s insane stamina and endurance(which I’ll show feats of if needed) should hold up those 5 days without food, water, etc. (Batman Vol. 3 #28)
See my point? You have both Slade and Bruce beating up each other quickly which doesn’t make sense. Its why consistent feats>>>fights. Honestly, all Batman Vs Deathstroke fights are PIS, even ones where Batman wins.
Bests Batman not once but twice
A. Same argument as above.
B. Batman in that time period had vastly limited gear, compared to what he has today.
C. That was a very hard fight for Slade. He was getting a fight by a random assassin and a guy who kicks horses over for a living. Heck, he stated that the pain would keep on for days. Deathstroke: The Terminator #8
D. That was 90s Batman who had a worse batsuit. It got piercied by bullets, later models were capable of no selling them. His cowl got pierced by bullets, later it no sold them, etc. If he had such a hard time with a Batman with a worse batsuit, this will be much harder considering 2000s Era Batman tanked hits from Clayface.
E. Batman is a bruiser, he takes beatings to get in close to give a pummeling himself. However, since he realizes how much of a threat Slade is due to their fights, Batman will switch to a more “speedy” style. As an example, Batman stalemated Lady Shiva during Batman #427:
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(Scans out of order)
But in Superman/Batman #3, Bruce switched his style to a more speedy one, beating Shiva swiftly:
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Scans in reverse order.
Its why we see Nightwing doing better against Slade sometimes(can post those instances if needed), he utilizes a more speedy style allowing him to dodge more hits and get in more hits. Likely Batman will switch to that style, making the fight far easier.
Defeats 2 skilled fighters, Green Arrow and Black Canary even though they prepped for his arrival
ABC logic. DS was beating them using stuff like swords. Batsuit has excellent piercing durability so it should take his swords/katanna and those can be dealt with using coin magnet or batarangs as well. And please, Ollie and Dinah have no feats on Batman’s skill lvl.
Schools several metahumans and skilled fighters including Green Arrow, Wally West, Hawkman, the Atom, Green Lantern, and Black Canary
Yeah, DS is teambuster tier confirmed. Except he had prep there, as DJH mentioned.
Your Opening Strategy:
KingOfLatveria:
Deathstroke in the past has had little trouble dealing with more than one skilled fighter at a time and coming on top with a combination of his skill and tactical mind. He can use his plasma staff and explosives, to defeat Panther and Batman are at the same time being held off by Pride's shadows. Deathstroke has already defeated Batman and top tier characters who are in the same category of skill as Batman and T'Challa using a combination of skill, speed, strength, and tactical mind.
You haven’t shown Deathstroke beating anyone on Batman’s skill lvl, not even close. The rest has been addressed. I’m curious why you’re completely ignoring my opening strat which nullified Slade‘s gear.
Nor Batman's suit is very resistant to piercing
Top kek.
and Deathstroke carries knives in spades.
Which will be taken by coin magnet.
Including ones that entirely ignore Armor, one such called the Abdo blade.
A. Proof that it does teleportation?
B. That’s non standard gear.
King_Hellstorm
I highly doubt that Bats would be able to beat DS,
Bruce will whoop his overrated ass.
but even if he does Pride does the same thing he does to BP except this time he would be facing a weaker opponent (since if Bats beats DS, he will 100% at least get tired or injured).
Meh. Batman has moved FTE and casually outsped people who humiliate bullet timers such as Shiva. He should dodge the shadows rather easily. And they’re not getting past the Batsuit, since it resisted an OMAC blade. All Bats need to do is get close, use that AOE flashbang in his utility belt I showed to dispell shadows increasing his chances then when close, use gadgets or strikes to take down Pride.
As you can see from those scans, the page after it showed his shadows dissolving he was literally already able to use them. So it vaporized his shadows for only a few seconds. And yes, you do have really strong flashbangs but the ones used on Pride were so bright that the village from below the mountain they were on could see the light.
I mean sure. A few seconds is a decent bit to people with BP and Bats’ speed btw, it could be utilized. And since Bruce has 10-20 flashbangs, a lot to use when needed.
Now that does turn out to be a decoy and Al had two flashbangs but I don't see why Pride couldn't do that to your flashbangs.
Has Pride ever reacted to something mid air while being focused on a foe? Any multi tasking feats? And you shouldn’t underestimate Batman’s throwing speed. I’m sure DJH will have some for BP but some feats for Batman to combat Pride after beating Slade:
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Scan 1: Tags Green Arrow’s arrow with a batarang. (Gotham Knights #53)
Scan 2: Tags an arrow with a batarang which then breaks Artemis’ bow. Artemis is high street, fact that she couldn’t react to this is highly impressive. (Superman/Batman #9)
Scan 3: Outspeeds Deadshot(a bullet timer) with a thrown object. (Detective Comics #536)
Not sure Pride can react to this while being focused on BP and Bats himself. Plus one of the flashbangs I showed is just a painfully bright AoE light, so no slicing anything there.
Strategy:
Aside from magnetic batarangs, Batman has a few other gadgets that help for a quick takedown.
1. Explosives. I’ve already shown Batman using powerful explosives on Lincoln March and Red Hood, meaning its in character for Batman to use them on street levelers. They should take out Slade after a few, if not oneshot. Going to need energy/explosive durability feats for DS
2. Freezing weaponry. Here are a few instances with them:
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Scan 1-2: Uses a freezing ray gun on some Talons. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs Bane)
Scan 3: Uses a liquid nitro gun to freeze a detonator. (Total Justice #1)
And the freezing ray is fast, a freezing ray batarang managed to tag and freeze The Flash. Dark Nights: Metal #2
Easy ain.
3. Grapnel Gun. Batman’s grapnel gun can wrap around people, and has a 15 ton breaking strain(Batman Confidenital #2)
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Scans in reverse order. Unless Slade has become a 15 tonner overnight(kek), the gun should restrain and from there, Batman can do whatever he wants. Any gadget, anything. There’s the question of how Bruce will get this on DS, well Batman can use the flashbangs he has for a distraction. Then with the distraction, use FTE lvl speed to tie up Slade.
4. Knockout gas. Brucie Boy can release knockout gas from his belt buckle(Detective Comics Vol. 2 #40):
As for his gas mask, that could just be broken through a punch. Holding his breath won’t work either, Batman can just punch him out of it, and he’ll eventually run out of breath.
Concluding Thoughts
I’ve gone a bit more in detail on Batman’s gear strats, all easy tactic.
Batman has all the gear and durability to make the entirety of Slade’s gear useless which you haven’t addressed for some reason.
Batman has multiple, quick and efficient ways to take down Deathstroke through gear
Batman has better stats in durability, striking power, speed, slightly better agility and equal endurance. He has much much better skill as well due to stalemating Lady Shiva and in later years Karate Kid(tho it is important to note that KK wasn’t using the martial arts that make him a mid tier, which is why I don’t think the fight is a case of PIS). Honest, I didn’t see much to say Slade can tank Batman’s blows. The fall scan is sorta unquantifiable, no selling bullets is weak af. If Nightwing can draw lots of blood, then Batman someone with better striking power should be capable of doing heavy damage. Either with striking power or gadgets, Slade is going down.
Can effectively deal with Pride using flashbangs and give Panther an advantage to counter Pride
I have to hand it to you, Pride is fast, impressively fast. And while the speed of his shadows is nothing to laugh at, I believe Black Panther has the speed to not only evade but even possibly outpace the shadows. Now I realize you stated that Ed is able to match with casual bullet-timers; but are they faster than the likes of Karnak, Iron Fist or Spiderman?
I would say so. I hope you don't mind some light scaling (I will try to make it as simple as possible). He has fought with Scar in several occasions for example
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And later was said so have become faster than Scar (thanks to lighter automail)
And Scar not only can dance around bullets but he can also stalemate Bradley who is is at Gorgon level speed (maybe even faster). As you can see here and below he has the trademark anime level swordsman speed.
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But we can even cut the middle man out, as Ed himself has defended against multiple Bradley clones easily
So there, two ways you can prove that Ed is casual bullet timer level in combat speed and Pride overwhelmed him. However you provided 3 examples, I can match that. Here he pins Greed to a tree much like Ed (but Greed skillfully landed in the branches to avoid a real pin) then tags him (almost twice until he is saved).
Just look at the GIF to see how incredibly fast it is, and no I did not speed it up to make it look cool, you can find it on YouTube. And Greed, has the second fastest combat speeds in the show IMO, here he is handling himself against Bradley (undo the time stamp for more Bradley awesomeness).
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Bradley does get the upper hand on him, but Greed handles himself quite well. He is able to deflect numerous blows against Bradley 1v1 before Fu comes and in case you missed it, here is a highlight (the prince was in control then but he is just more skilled than Greed and not faster since they share a body) that level of speed is insane.
Black Panther's Speed:
I also find this scan to be pretty questionable. Because as you can see 1. Spidey is holding back and Banter isn't. 2. BP outright states that he is faster than Spidey which as we all know is a lie, in fact here is BP admitting that Spidey is faster.
So yes, BP can keep pace with Spidey and tag him using skill not just speed. Which is important because you can't out-skill a bunch of malleable shadows like you can a human.
Again, I also find using just this scan to be rather questionable, I mean BP takes him by surprise and yet is tagged. But not only that, later on Danny also pulls the exact opposite of your scan and tags BP with every single blow.
Now again, am I saying BP can't keep pace with Danny? No. What I am saying is that he can't outpace Danny, at least not for long. Just like Ed vs Pride, which I showed earlier. The same will happen in this fight.
But coupled with his speed, Panther is extremely agile and is not stranger to dodging attacks from multiple directions and angles:
Scan 1: Dodges multiple energy daggers from multiple angles thrown by Malice. (Black Panther Vol.3 #33)
Let's look at this panel by panel (from top, to left to right and bottom)
Panel 1: BP deflects a couple daggers.
Panel 2: The girl is shown to throw daggers.
Panel 3: We see daggers whiz by Panther but nothing to indicate movement
Panel 4: He dodges a spear.
Panel 5: The girl blitzes past him.
So where is he dodging multiple energy daggers?
Scan 2-3: Using speed and agility, dodges all of the Trapster's traps and weaponry, not taking a single blow. (Fantastic Four Vol. 1 #548)
Which is fine but those aren't even bullet speed (unless you count the lasers but those looked static), Pride's shadows can keep up with casual bullet timers and overwhelm them.
Black Panther's Vibranium, Anti-Metal, Teleportation and More
The other half of this equation is the functionality of T'challa's Vibranium Suit. The Suit is extremely difficult to pierce, given the innate property of Vibranium that absorbs kinetic energy and in the face of piercing weapons it robs them of their momentum, slowing them down and significantly decreasing the amount of damage they do, rendering most ranged attacks near useless:
Okay let us see.
Scan 1: Vibranium boots/soles rob the momentum and stop a car thrown by Savage Hulk. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #15)
Scan 2: Vibranium Suit absorbs the force and impact of a point blank RPG, absorbs it, and redirects the kinetic energy and force as a energy blast. (Black Panther Vol. 6 #3)
Scan 3: The Suit absorbs point blank gunfire from several machine guns at once while Panther is pinned. He takes no damage. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #7)
Scan 4: The Suit can't be pierced/stabbed by bladed weaponry. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #1)
Scan 5-6: Suit absorbs and redirects, and projects from the force and energy of Ezekiel Stane's energy projection. (Black Panther Vol. 6 #7)
Okay.......I don't actually see it. I mean sure he absorbs energy but I already know he can do that, only scan 4 provides evidence for blades being useless but the guy who stabbed BP isn't even named and like I showed BP can be pierced by the likes of Kraven, Sabretooth and Malice, none of your scans prove that to be false. Perhaps if you showed those feats without me showing it can be pierced then I can see the argument, but as of right now we know for a fact that it can be cut.
Also the suit BP wears in scan 4 looks awfully similar to this one
I'd be willing to argue that since according to your statement that Pride can't easily cut through anything above carbon in durability:
Lucky for be Carbon is more durable than Vibranium. The reason why Vibranium is OP is because of it's ability to absorb kinetic energy, it isn't inherently durable. Don't get me wrong, Vibranium's ability is useful but it won't make him knife proof.
Unfortunately despite Pride's great strength, Panther's entire suit is laced with Vibranium meaning he will have an incredibly tough time,
When I say Vibranium, I mean pure Vibranium. Your mesh would be easily cut and I do not think Kraven is having a hard time cutting it given his smile, looks like he is having a jolly good time if you ask me.
like I mentioned before getting through the suit. Do the shadows have any inherent durability feats,
I would argue yes. Newton's Third Law which means that.......yeah no one will appreciate me arguing for science. However Ed did use his automail to attack and block the shadows as I already showed.
because I am willing to bet that Panther can use his Anti-metal claws to slice right through them given their being made of ANtartic Vibranium and already able to easily shred most metals:
Antarctic Vibranium is specifically Anti-Metal. So I am not sure why this is relevant.
Or he can use the energy daggers to supplement this as well given that they can easily slice through government forged metal like butter or based on the fact that even his energy daggers can pierce an alternate universe Terrax:
Possibly. But like I showed CauseImBatman his shadows can regen with a thought.
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As you can see, in the first scan is is completely eradicated and in the third panel of the seconds scan it is back and already forming spikes while also reaching for Al. So you cut it and it comes back neigh instantaneously, it's just a waste of knives.
So I am willing to bet that with this, Panther along with being able to evade Pride's shadows, will be able to outright slice through them or even repel them. And if Pride decides to go big or somehow gets T'challa into an unfavorable position, he can always just teleport and proceed to deal major damage:
Panther can dodge them, cut them or block them for a while. But not forever and not even Ed lasted a minute against Pride without getting tagged.
Panther teleports three times here mid-combat, so he definitely isn't afraid to do it.
This teleportation thing is really crucial to your plan as you mention later. But you have been using the same scans, perhaps it is because it illustrates your point best or perhaps it is one of BP's only showing of using teleportation mid combat. I won't claim anything of course, as I don't know much about modern BP, but I want to see scans of BP using it combat in another scenario, other wise I don't see this being IC, I mean those scans will be 4 years old soon.
Asides from that, teleporation merely provides a quick escape. Once they duel again BP will be tired out again.
Nerve Strikes and Detection
Impressive, but it seems like it takes him time to actually smell his opponent and find them. In the video you posted it took him a few seconds to detect Al's exact location it seems.
As for sense of smell he does need to sniff before finding his prey. But Gluttony was able to use his as a replacement for his eyes.
But don't forget that he can also see through the shadows, hence the eyes.
Those few seconds won't be afforded against T'challa who is faster than Al and will be hitting Pride much harder than Al would. Besides does Pride have any answer to nerve strikes or if Panther throws an energy dagger to scramble his brain?
Yes, he has none.
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As you can see, no nerves, no soul. Just souls, hundreds of them inside his shell. And I don't suppose BP can attack the soul? Even if he could he would have to do it a hundred+ times.
Well tbh it seems like Pride has to focus to use his sense of smell for detection, although I'm sure he has even better feats with his sense of smell, plus Panther won't be detectable by sight or sound in his suit so he would really have to focus in order to try and find him,
His shadows are an extension of his senses for one, I am pretty sure he can sense through them as well using touch, but he does not have much feats of detection since very few people in FMA use stealth.
and T'challa can use that to his advantage by constantly stay on the move. Teleporting is also a huge factor that I don't see Pride having a ready counter for.
And where does BP go? Straight to Selim? He could do that, but Selim could dodge against the Panther, as I showed him dodging the attacks of 2 bullet timers (one casual) while injured so he can leap away from a surprise attack and attack again or he can just take the hit and heal.
In addition you haven't really presented any physical durability feats against nerve strikes and pressure points for Pride and unless he has feats of something like that, i'm willing to bet Panther can KO him that way fairly quickly since he was even able to use nerve strikes to great effect on Luke Cage (who should be more durable than Pride) while T'challa was depowered in Black Panther: The Man Without Fear #517:
You assume Pride is humanoid. He is nothing but a shell filled with souls. So yeah, Panther tags his "nerve" center and Pride will just laugh "Was that supposed to do something?"
Counters: My Plan
I doubt that morals are a significant advantage, Pride is an enemy and despite being a child he is also clearly non-human.
BP lives in Earth 616 remember? There are mutants, Inhumans, mystics and more who all have abilities similar to Pride's yet are human (technically they aren't but in practice they are). I mean how can BP tell that Pride isn't possessed by an evil entity for example?
I don't see why Black Panther will hold back when he was part of a plan that authorized the destruction of the city of Atlantis: which included Atlantean men, women, and children.
That is equivalent to saying that since President Harry S. Truman nuked Japan, he would be perfectly fine with beating a child. Ordering a nuke is impersonal, it is logical. Fighting is personal, you see who you are fighting and every healthy human has empathy which triggers emotion, clouding logic. So I do not see how killing Atlantis translates to not holding back against a child.
Note that T'challa only argued for not doing this because of his and Namor's previous agreement of being allies to deal with the Incursions, and even said in the previous issue that were it not for the Incursions he would surely refuse the peace offering. He also did not fight that hard against the plan and even killed Namor himself later in the run. Pride is an enemy, nothing more, so even being a child, I don't believe Panther will hold back, especially after seeing his true nature.
Because of the stakes. BP knew the stakes were high and he made that decision. Here, there is no reason BP should start nerve blasting a kid who he has never met before, without at least trying to hold back at the start. Also both of those scans seems o happen because BP was coerced by his own father to murder for the kingdom (which is not at risk here). Context, main scan
So that man wanting to murder Namor? That isn't the Black Panther, the Black Panther breaks down and cries when he had to push the death button (which is respectable).
I have shown by now that Panther not only has the speed, but the agility, dexterity, gear, and skills to deal with Pride's shadows.
That was before I showed Pride tagging Ed and Greed who are both as fast and as agile as BP if not even more faster (not going to push that now though, but maybe in the future I can debate Greedling vs BP).
In addition just because Pride may be able to attack more often due to his multiple shadows, does not mean he can put BP down easier. In fact I would argue that T'challa has better all around durability
All around durability means little when he can be cut.
and would be able to KO him with an energy dagger or a well placed nerve strike/pp.
Sorry, you better find another way. And before you say knock out, here is the science of being knocked out . Requires some internal organs as well.
Exactly, Pride is not human, why would BP hold back against a non-human even if it has the form of a child?.
Why would Panther know he is non-human? Only after his nerve strikes fail can I see him switching from holding back to normal villain mode. And that is too late.
But aside from that Black Panther's endurance is pretty great, he once fought with Killmonger off and on for over 13 hours. I doubt this battle will last that long at all, i doubt this will last even close to an hour.
Oh? And how long do you propose it will take for Pride to take Panther down? I mean, if it takes shorter then that would be great.
And T'challa can definitely go full steam on for over two hours. So while that's a solid argument, it doesn't work given T'challa superhuman characteristics and willpower.
Remember Pride won't wait till BP is tired, he will wait till BP slips up or slows down. Once, just once. Then he takes that inch and makes it a mile, a real bloody one.
So here's the thing with this. Your second scan is Nakia/Malice using Vibranium weapons, which all Dora Mijale have/wield.
And what makes Vibranium a better piercers than Pride's shadows?
However with Kraven and Sabertooth, there is a key difference than the argument you're making. You have to specifically cut across the grain of the suit to cut through it,
Which is something I said "if you are strong enough and cut the right places as seen here."
and you have to be attacking from an incredibly close range for your attacks not to be weakened by the innate vibranium properties of the suit, like Kraven and Sabertooth were. Pride won't be that close,
So what you are saying is. The closer Panther is to his attacker the less durable his suit is? Because honestly, I don't get the "key" difference, Pride has better piercing power than Sabertooth or Kraven and his blades are paper thin which is all that matters.
and doesn't he like to impale his opponents rather than cut like these people would here. His fights with the Elrics should show that and besides, Panther has plenty of other gear to deal with the shadows as I have mentioned above.
No, why would his fights with Elrics show that he likes impaling people? His mission would be over if they died. He can't deal with shadows in a way that would not allow them to respawn instantly.
Counters: Your Plan
Why wouldn't it be? They are his shadows right? You call them that yourself, and they come from his shadow as well. Pride is also pretty much a one-trick beastly pony. T'challa knows how shadows works, so as soon as Pride uses his powers, I am more than willing to bet that Panther can quickly figure out how he works, plus we already know the reputation of our opponents through the rules set by the OP so that's another reason BP would be able to figure him out quickly and why he won't hold back.
I was really confused at this statement seeing as how I literally said "Yes, I must admit that T'challa is a very intelligent character and he would be able to deduce Pride's powerset however I doubt it will be easy as this (this referring to the statement I am referencing below)"
"That is when he can re-coordinate with Bruce and gain access to a flashbang or tech that cause some sort of smokescreen to cut off his main attack method."
As I said before Pride requires at least a few seconds to detect through smell,
Less than 3 seconds, it took him less than3 seconds after sniffing to recognize which direction Hohenheim was coming from.
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and he even stops using his shadows until he detected Al.
Because why would he keep them up?
Also Pride has no real answer to Black Panther's teleportation capabilities. Using that he could easily find Bats and get some flashbangs from him
You know Bruce is literally 15 feet away from us. Pride could just attack you when you appear next to him, you will still have no time to ask for flashbangs then receive the flashbangs.
or just teleport and take out pride with his energy dagger or nerve strikes.
Hammering for a home run are we? Well, Pride has no nerves so try something else.
No I mean, along with his claws he could just slice through the shadows. As far as I can tell they don't really have any durability feats, so I imagine Panther can cut through them.
It does have durability feats, Al was unable to break any of the shadows with his automail sword.
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Although your claws probably has better piercing ability since he only used the sword once.
These are clearly not bullets, nor did I call them bullets, I called them firearms yes, but not bullets.
If it comes out of a gun it's a laser or a bullet, why does it matter? it doesn't.
These things disintegrated the human body down to the skeleton, bullets don't do that and despite Pride's power he doesn't do that either
Well, this makes things so much easier then. The attacks that broke the shields weren't even piercing damage, so in that regard your shield is featless which means that Pride can undoubtedly break the shield.
And as far as piercing/cutting. BP's shields have even stood up to Proxima Midnight's spear attacks in New Avengers Vol.3 #24:
Which were clearly not at full power as those spears did not even fully pierce, what I assume are normal humans, body's. At full power the spears do this
And that is also the issue were this happened, and I hope I don't have to say that Proxima giving Hulk trouble means that can't happen and not be PIS.
So your only real piercing is not even quantifiable, nor can it even defend against Pride anyway since it only covers a small portion of the front.
So I am more than willing to bet the shield can take Pride's shadows.
The scan you brought up has Black Swan the one directly above this is Proxima Midnight.
So you are willing to bet more on one ridiculously high showing, when in that showing the spears were not shown to be powerful and the issue it was in is has PIS?
1. Pride still has to actually pick up Panther's scent before you can abuse that tactic and so far he isn't very fast with his detection and he hasn't really shown it when an opponent on the move as fast as BP.
AT most BP has less than 3 seconds. What can he do in that time that does not immediately reveal his location?
2. The suit absorbs any kinetic energy and turns into energy that Panther can project, and Pride's main attack uses kinetic energy though movement so how is that gone?
Because he is weak to piercing attacks. Kraven's son beat BP using it.
We also know the conversion between piercing attacks and energy is weak which is why Kraven's son also was able to tank energy hits easily
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3. You've severely underestimated the shield it seems as its taken very potent attacks.
It more like knowing the difference between an oulier (or you can call it Proxima holding back) and a consistency and knowing the difference between energy and piercing durability
4. How does a massive attack compensate for teleportation if Panther just teleports behind Pride?
Because if BP teleports close he would still be hit by the massive attack.
Unfortunately that is just not the case, BP has all the methods to get around and through Pride and doesn't really have teleportation counters.
Like I said earlier, show me BP fighting like Nightcrawler, at least one more time before you can claim that it is his go to move. Asides from that, the best way to counter a teleporter without knowing where they are going is to limit their options, Pride can easily do that
It's raining death!
He can also protect himself from behind.
He also so far doesn't have the feats to suggest he can tank an energy dagger or nerve strikes. In addition massive attacks would be a bad idea if Panther teleported to Deathstroke and made Pride hurt/kill his partner.
What? He trick a master tactician he know little about and Pride who has perfect team work with him, to attack each other?
Conclusion:
I want to do three things here, 1. Compare how hard it is to put down Pride and BP. 2. Recap everything that was covered here and 3. List Pride advantages.
Recap: Points of Contention
I will just quickly go through all of the debatable points and I will recap my arguments and maybe add some more.
I also questioned the teleporting strategy in general as 1. Batman is only 15 feet away so Pride attack BP if he appears next to Bruce will be simple and it is not like Batman will be readily available. and 2. BP has one showing so far of using the ability, in fact I am re-reading New Avengers and thus far, he has not used the ability after Issue 1 in combat. Here is a battle with him not using it once
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(2013) New Avengers Issue 20
Then what I find even more strange is that in issue 23 he battles Namor and in the end this happens
Which implies that either 1. Everyone forgot BP can teleport which includes BP himself or 2. He cannot just teleport himself, so if you touch him you teleport with him (much like Azazel from Fox). In fact when he next see BP using it there is a deal-breaking difference
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Here there is a bight flash and smoke. So goodbye stealth. Now you could argue that it was because BP used long ranged teleportation, but that only strnegthens my claim that BP does not use short ranged teleportation often.
Aaand I will be honest here and say that I stopped reading New Avengers since it kinda lost me but TLDR it seems as if BP does not use this ability in combat often (I mean it is clearly not second nature to him, he uses a shield to block attacks twice instead of teleportation), and even if he did Pride has a simple yet effective counter.
Panther's shield
Much like teleportation it seems as if you only have one showing of the sield against piercing damage, one showing that is very clearly a jobbing Promixma or at least one that is not using the full power of her spear (as again, this is her full power spear). Either way, the shield is small and like I said, Pride can attack from any and multiple angles.
Panther's morals
As I said, waging war on a country does not mean one is willing to personally beat up a child. Not only that but I belive that this scan illustrates BP's character
As you can see, he grants Namor mercy (until Namor blows up the world with the fake Justice League) then breaks down when he is unable to kill a world full of strangers and this is after that world's heroes were already murdered by Strange and when he was being told to do it by his ancestors, he just did not have the strength to do pull the trigger. Even if he did, the stakes were Wakanda and the universe, here it is just his own life.
Vibranium vs Pride's Shadows
I showed Vibranium being cut not once, not twice but three times by objects as sharp as if not less sharp than Pride's shadows. There is no reason Pride won't be able to slice and dice the King of the Dead.
Putting Down Pride
I think that was all the major points, now let me show you the biggest reason Pride wins.
Okay let's give ourselves as overview of what won't work.
Flashbangs. Only hurt his shadows temporarily.
Internal attacks. Won't affect someone whose internal is a bunch of souls and a fetus.
Knock Out. Which again won't work on someone who has no brain via science also no Hommunculus has been KO'd IIRC.
Physical attacks. Regen spam for days, you would have to hurt Pride till all 3 of his stones are out of juice, which means you would have to massively out gun him otherwise I don't see anyone killing him over and over, and luckily you do not out gun him.
What will work:
Incapacitation. If you can somehow restrict his movement using something he can't cut, you have shown nothing like this.
Caging him. If you can somehow block out all the light or all the darkness, you have shown nothing that can, and frankly you are in your lest leg of posting so bringing up some new gear is pretty underhanded.
Soul attacks. If you can attack his souls directly, you can burn his power supply much quicker. Luckily you are not Quan Chi and have shown nothing that can do this.
Bottom Line: The only feasible way I can see you putting Pride down is through murder. Bruce won't do this, T'Challa most likely won't. But asides from morals, you would have to murder him more times then Heinkel did, Heinkel had no hesitation, superhuman stats and minutes worth of free hits yet didn't do the job. So you guys doing it while Pride is at full power while you are morals on is extremely unlikely, much more unlikely than Deathstroke spanking Bats and Pride slicing BP.
Putting Down The Panther
What won't work
Blunt force. Which no one is using against BP.
Energy. Which Pride isn't using.
What will work
Slicing Panther. Which is Pride's MO.
Outlasting Panther. Which is easy when you don't feel tired and can heal from anything.
Bottom Line: BP is tough, but he picked the wrong sin to mess with, perhaps even the worst sin to mess with. Pride can and will slice BP or he can outlast the man or simply choke him to death. BP's defenses don't limit Pride much.
In the end....
Pride is still
The fighter with the most DPS.
The fighter withe the most DC.
The fighter with the best regen.
The fighter with infinite ammo.
The fighter who will never tire.
The fighter with zero morals.
The fighter who has easy means to beat his opponent.
And worst of all the fighter you have shown no answer to putting down. You have shown no way of taking Pride out, the only thing you focused on were his shadows and he can make more of them neigh instantly. You tried saying nerve attacks and brain shocks but Pride has no nerves or brain. In the same time, Pride can counter stealth with smell, teleportation with AoE and Vibranium with cuts and chokes. So in the end, as I said earlier, Pride overwhelms, Pride out lasts and Pride destroys.
CauseImBatman/Batman
Bruce will whoop his overrated ass.
If anyone is overrated it's.....
Meh. Batman has moved FTE and casually outsped people who humiliate bullet timers such as Shiva.
I am not sure how consistent that is, but there is no way that Batman is faster than people who compete with Bradley. I would say that he is just as fast as Ed. Ed can't bypass Pride's defense even when Pride was massively weakened.
Ed has to use an AoE alchemy attack in order to tag Pride later on.
He should dodge the shadows rather easily. And they’re not getting past the Batsuit, since it resisted an OMAC blade.
So how does Sensei impale Batman with his regular old walking stick?
Also, its worth noting how the Batsuit is not Vibranium. So it doesn't absorb kinetic energy, meaning the kinetic energy goes somewhere and that somewhere is Batman's body. You can see this confirmed in the comics when Bruce's ribs start to crack after repeated gunshots.
And as we should all know by now, Pride can cut through bullet proof materiel. So even if Bats doesn't get cut, he will feel the pain and go down. Not to mentions Batman's rather obvious open area, right there in his kisser.
All Bats need to do is get close, use that AOE flashbang in his utility belt I showed to dispell shadows increasing his chances then when close, use gadgets or strikes to take down Pride.
Strikes won't do the trick unless you aim to kill. He can break out of ice or rope once he recovers, and knockout gas attacks the nervous system, which as we all know, Pride lacks.
I mean sure. A few seconds is a decent bit to people with BP and Bats’ speed btw, it could be utilized. And since Bruce has 10-20 flashbangs, a lot to use when needed.
It would be if you have given a way for your side to actually take down Pride in that time. But you have not.
Has Pride ever reacted to something mid air while being focused on a foe? Any multi tasking feats?
Awfully specific so no. But he does have multi tasking feats. In the GIF below he fights 3 casual bullet timers at once and has the edge on all of them.
And you shouldn’t underestimate Batman’s throwing speed. I’m sure DJH will have some for BP but some feats for Batman to combat Pride after beating Slade:
Those scans don't indicate bullet speed and Pride tags people who react to bullets.
This post has been waiting to see the light of day for a while so here it is. I am actually surprised that you haven't brought up Pride's main weakness yet, lol.
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