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#1 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke and Pride

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V.S.

Black Panther and Batman

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Rules:

  • DC is Post-Crisis/New 52/Rebirth
  • Marvel is 616
  • Pride is composite
  • Perfect Teamwork
  • No Ikon suit for Slade
  • In character
  • Teams only know each other through rep (except DS and Bats)
  • Standard gear
  • Win by Incap/KO/Death

Battlefield

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  • Battle takes place during dusk.
  • Teams start 15 feet apart.

Battle Theme

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#2 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

tagging for possible voters/people who might be interested

Black Panther:

Full Metal Alchemist:

Batman:

Deathstroke:

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#3 Posted by Nelomaxwell (14172 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if my vote will count team 2 has 2 of my top 5

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#5 Posted by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat-God solo's :)

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#8 Posted by Exmaster3000 (537 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to say Batman, but what can they do to pride?

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#9 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@exmaster3000: KO him.......also this is a CaV so only the debaters involved can say debate.

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#10 Posted by Old_Blighty (850 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Exmaster3000 (537 posts) - - Show Bio
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#12 Posted by Jmarshmallow (13863 posts) - - Show Bio

Cooool. T4V

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#13 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, T4V like to see how Pride will be represented in this match up.

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#14 Posted by Batman3000 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#15 Edited by kotetsu454 (1086 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, sure yeah T4V.

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#16 Posted by nerdchore (8208 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#17 Edited by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio

@causeimbatman, @major_hellstorm, @trust_this_786: Alright, my post is ready to go.

The King of the Dead, Black Panther:

No Caption Provided

"Since you've squandered the right to surrender, I will keep pounding you until you can't move anymore. How about that?"

Opening Theme:

As always I include an opening theme for my characters, Black Panther is no different:

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Stat Rundown:

T'challaStats
6"0Height
200 lbsWeight
UnknownAge
  • Master scientist
  • Superhuman strength, speed, durability, and senses from heart-shaped herb and KOTD
  • Master armed and unarmed combatant
  • Master tracker
  • Utilizes vibranium suit and equipment
Abilities

An Introduction to the Black Panther:

Background/History:

In the distant past, a meteorite made of the (fictional) vibration-absorbing mineral vibranium crashed in Wakanda, and was unearthed. Reasoning that outsiders would exploit Wakanda for this valuable resource, the ruler King T'Chaka like his father and other Panthers before him, concealed his country from the outside world. T'Chaka's first wife N'Yami died while in labor with T'Challa, and his second wife Ramonda was taken prisoner by Anton Pretorius during a visit to her homeland of South Africa, so for most of his childhood T'Challa was raised by his father alone. T'Chaka was murdered by the adventurer Ulysses Klaw in an attempt to seize the vibranium mound. With his people still in danger, a young T'Challa used Klaw's sound weapon on Klaw and his men, shattering Klaw's right hand and forcing him to flee.

T'Challa was next in line to be the king of Wakanda and Black Panther, but until he was ready to become the leader of the nation, his uncle S'yan (T'Chaka's younger brother) successfully passed the trials to become the Black Panther. While on his Wakandan walkabout rite of passage, T'Challa met and fell in love with apparent orphaned teen Ororo Munroe, who would grow up to become the X-Men member Storm. The two broke off their relationship due to his desire to avenge his father's death and to become the type of man who could suitably lead Wakanda, but they would see each other over the years when they could.

T'Challa earned the title and attributes of the Black Panther by defeating the various champions of the Wakandan tribes. One of his first acts was to disband and exile the Hatut Zeraze—the Wakandan secret police—and its leader, his adopted brother Hunter the White Wolf. He sold off small portions of vibranium to scientific institutions around the world, amassing a fortune which he used to arm himself with advanced technology. Later, to keep peace, he picked dora milaje ("adored ones") from rival tribes to serve as his personal guard and ceremonial wives-in-training. He then studied abroad for a time before returning to his kingship.

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Two Bios on Black Panther and his history
  • Scans 1-2: Marvel Encyclopedia Vol. 1
  • Scan 3: The Marvel Encyclopedia Vol. 2

Powers & Abilities:

  • Divine Empowerment: T'Challa was given powers and enhancements by the GoddessBast, when he became the King of the Dead. All his peak human powers have been enhanced to superhuman levels, but to what extent is unknown.
  • Black Panther Knowledge:T'Challa has the power to draw all the knowledge, strength, and every experience from every previous Black Panther.
  • Superhumanly Acute Senses: T'Challa can see with greater clarity and greater distances than an ordinary human. His vision extends into the ultraviolet and infrared areas of the electromagnetic spectrum, allowing him to see in near-total darkness and retain the same level of clarity. T'Challa's hearing is similarly enhanced, enabling him to detect sounds normal humans can't and sounds they ordinarily could but at much greater distances. T'Challa can memorize tens of thousands of scents. His sense of smell enables him to recognize people/objects by scent, even if they are well hidden. He can track a target by scent and track them to the exact location, can smell fear, and detect if someone is lying by change in body odor. T'Challa's sense of taste is sensitive to the point that he is able to taste the exact ingredients of any particular food he is eating.
  • Superhuman Strength: T'Challa has received a blessing from the Panther Goddess Bast, which elevated his strength to superhuman levels. His physical strength is between 800 lbs and 2 tons; although the full limits aren't known.
  • Superhuman Speed: T'Challa is able to run and move at speeds superior to those of any Olympic athlete, and is capable of reaching speeds of 40 mph. He has the ability to attack faster than the eye can follow. His combat speed seems more enhanced then anything else, as he has frequently kept up with other enemies in combat, and blitzed people before they pull their trigger fingers.
  • Superhuman Stamina: T'Challa's body eliminates the excessive build-up of fatigue-producing poisons in his muscles and his musculature generates considerably less fatigue toxins than the muscles of an ordinary human being, granting him superhuman levels of stamina, exceptional endurance, and lung capacity; in all physical activities. His lung capacity is at peak human level enabling him to hold breath for 6 minutes underwater, making his lungs as healthy as human's lungs can get. He can physically exert himself at peak capacity for several hours before fatigue toxins begin to impair him.
  • Superhuman Durability: T'Challa's skin, bone, and muscle tissues are augmented to levels that are considerably stronger and harder than human and the tissues are impervious to injury to an extraordinary extent.
  • Superhuman Healing: T'Challa is able to regenerate injured tissue and brain cells to an extraordinary degree, heal broken bones, torn muscles, but is unable to regenerate missing limbs or organs. He is immune to all Earthly diseases, infections and disorders. He's also impervious to gas attacks, poisons, and nerve-toxins of any kind and is completely resistant to diseases.
  • Superhuman Agility: T'Challa's agility, balance, flexibility, dexterity, and bodily coordination are enhanced to levels that are beyond the natural physical limits of an Olympic gold medalist. He has the combined agility and acrobatic prowess of the most accomplished circus aerialists and acrobats.
  • Superhuman Reflexes: T'Challa's reaction time is superior to that of any Olympic athlete that has ever competed. His reflexes are so efficient that he can dodge and deflect point blank gun fire, dodge bullets from machine guns and sniper rifles. Captain America once stated that he's faster than the creature he was named after.
  • Necromancy: As "King of the Dead," T'Challa is able to take command of the dead itself. He was able to take control of an entire army of zombies and order the spirits of the Necropolis to aid him in his fight with Tetu.

Panther's Arsenal Part I: General Showings

A decent showing of T'challa's pure physical stats and how he applies his gear, (Namely energy daggers) is shown in the following instance of New Avengers #22:

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Here we see that after the Illuminati's falling out due to the incursions, BP and Namor have it out. Black Panther has the consistent edge in this fight, not only being able to tank Namor's blows, but easily hurt him as well, along with just plain outfighting him. Now what makes this impressive is that Namor is the type of being that can go toe to toe with bricks like Hulk and Thing, so the fact that T'challa is doing this well is a testament to his own strength, speed, and durability.

However T'challa is quite skilled as well, and can employ his knowledge of pressure points and nerve strikes to take out opponents as well. For example his battle against the White Wolf in Black Panther Vol.2 #12:

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We see at the end of the fight, when the White Wolf suddenly drops, that T'challa can employ nerve strikes that his opponent would not even notice, eventually incapacitating them and taking them out of the fight. Given his own inherent speed and skill, this won't be very difficult for him to employ.

Finally a solid showing of how he uses his gear mid-combat along with his skills comes in New Avengers #1:

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Here we see that T'challa has a shield that can defend against firearms that can vaporize the human body, can teleport short distances with others, and even cloak himself mid combat. How he uses these in conjunction with his own abilities is also notable. Not only does he speed blitz all of Black Swan's mercenaries, but he also one-shots Black Swan herself. Not a bad showing for the King of Wakanda.

TL;DR

  • Black Panther has not only the stats, but the skills to compete with anyone in this matchup.
  • He has an added advantage in his vibranium based-gear and technology which gives him a versatile edge in any fight, especially on this level.
  • His ability to use his stats and gear in conjunction with each other makes him a lethal force on this battlefield

Panther Arsenal II: Gear

What I want to do here is go over the functions of the technology the Panther comes readily equipped with at all times. This includes his Vibranium-Weave Panther Habit, his Energy Daggers, Anti-Metal Claws, Kimoyo and the other various gadgetry present in the Panther Habit.

Energy Daggers:

Energy constructed blades, the wielder has the ability to gauge between power levels, releasing a beam, powerful enough to slice through various structures and foes. This weapon can also be fired as a projectile. Energy daggers are T'Challa's default weapon of choice in armed combat situations.

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  • Scan 1: Panther's energy daggers are able to be swarmed, shot like darts, and fanned out, and regenerated repeatedly, affecting Ultron despite his adamantium shell. (Avengers Vol. 3 #21)
  • Scan 2: Displays how the daggers can affect Ultron, the energy daggers phase through and disrupt the electronics and systems within Ultron's adamantium body. (Avengers Vol.3 #21)
  • Scan 3: The energy daggers display the abilities to paralyze and kill nerves, used here on a skrull with the powers of Mr. Fantastic. (Black Panther Vol. 4 #28)
  • Scan 4: The energy daggers display its capabilities to cut through any force field by throwing it out of phase. (Black Panther Vol. 4 #34)
  • Scan 5: Energy daggers easily cut through Iron Man's forcefield and damage the suit from the inside and out. (Black Panther Vol.3 #42)
  • Scan 6: The daggers can easily cut through government forged metals with ease like butter. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #3)
  • Scan 7: On its non-lethal setting, the daggers can mark their target, allowing Black Panther to track and find them anywhere. (Black Panther Vol.3 #1)

Anti-Metal Claws:

Claws in the gloves are made of Antarctic Vibranium-based "Anti-Metal" that can break down basically all metals at the molecular level. The claws also have the ability to emit small energy blades from the tip as well as launch them as projectiles

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  • Scan 1: Anti-Metal Claws destroy and shred through Deadpool's swords on contact. (Deadpool Vol.4 #15)
  • Scan 2: Stated to cut through all metals and break them down on a molecular level. Shreds through suits designed by Tony Stark (Black Panther Vol.3 #60)
  • Scan 3: Anti-metal Claws are capable of damaging Iron Man and cutting through his armor. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #42)

Panther Habit Technology:

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  • Scan 1: Suit has EM spectrum cloaking abilities, and Panther can use this in combat. (New Avengers Vol.3 #1)
  • Scan 2: Suit has the ability to teleport short to moderate distances. (New Avengers Vol.3 #1)
  • Scan 3: Suit can absorb and redirect energy back at his opponents. (Black Panther Vol.6 #3)
  • Scan 4: Hard-Light Shields capable of blocking Proxima Midnight's spear attacks. (New Avengers Vol.3 #24)
  • Scans 5-7: Suit has technology that can shut down and make weaponry backfire be they giants mechs or guns. (Black Panther Vol. 4 #11, 32)
  • Scan 8: Vibranium soles generate energy that can break down and destroy metals. (Black Panther Vol.3 #30)

TL;DR

  • The energy daggers and anti-metal claws are extremely deadly to all of Bruce's gear, and combining that with Panther's Kimoyo and tech shutdown gear in his suit, T'challa has the means to lock out Bruce from his impressive technology.
  • The extra tech Panther has, being able to teleport, shield himself, redirect energy, turn invisible, and break down metals give him an already huge edge in versatility.
  • That versatility will also help him greatly in being a partner to Bruce and sabotaging Deathstroke's long range arsenal forcing him to fight in melee combat while leaving Panther and Batman free reign of their gear

Panther's Arsenal Part III: Speed & Skill

Aside from the gear and general showings I feel that when it comes to this matchup I should highlight the level of skill and the speed that Panther uses said skill against a wide variety of opponents and should come in handy when facing off against Deathstroke and Pride.

Speed & Agility:

The first part of that will be establishing Panther as a bonafide bullet-timer, I daresay casual even:

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  • Scan 1: Dodges and acrobatically weaves around automatic gunfire from the Hatut Zeraze (Wakandan Secret Police) (Black Panther Vol.3 #4)
  • Scan 2: While depowered,limiting his speed and agility, Panther dodges multiple gunshots. (Black Panther: The Man Without Fear #513)
  • Scan 3-6: Dodges and weaves through gunfire multiple times with ease. From L-R (Marvel Super Heroes Vol.2 #1, Jungle Action #6, Avengers Vol.1 #87, and Fantastic Four Annual #5

Now that that's been established lets take a look at some his skill feats:

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  • Scans 1-5: Takes on Kraven the Hunter and defeats him with little difficulty nearly killing him. (Black Panther Vol. 3 #7)
  • Scan 6: Deduces the tells and fighting pattern of a Super-Skrull with the skills and powers of Marvel's top street levelers. Including Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Wolverine, himself, etc. (Black Panther Vol. 4 #40)
  • Scan 7: While depowered, uses nerve strikes to incapacitate Luke Cage despite his superhuman durability. (Black Panther: The Man without Fear #517)
  • Scan 8-9: Outreacts, speeds, and oneshots Karnak not once but twice. (Black Panther Vol.4 #20, Fantastic Four Annual #5)

I think these should suffice to say that The Panther has the skill and speed to take on Deathstroke and Pride, whoever he ends up matching up with in the end, more than likely Pride.

See Wakanda and Die Part I: Opening Strategy

Now this section will cover Panther's opening strategy to battling the villains on the other side of this matchup. Now to go over the stipulations set up before hand we are 15 feet apart and in visible sight. Now knowing your team by rep only and being able to see them, T'challa will know what he has to first.

Deathstroke:

That means taking out Deathstroke's main long-range arsenal. Using the tech in his suit like I noted before:

No Caption Provided

This will ensure that Slade's firearms will be just about useless to him in this fight and Panther can even dial this tech up to where they explode, but I won't push that tactic as disabling them will be more than good enough for him and Batman. Now since the teams are in-character that means Slade and Bruce will likely fight it out once more. I'll leave it to my partner to discuss that further, but this will be Panther's opening move against DS. If need be, Panther can always support Bruce by throwing some Vibranium energy grenades (Namor Fight) to distract him or teleport and flank him. In the event that Slade can somehow still use his guns Panther can always stop them with his suit and then blast him with the absorbed kinetic energy.

Pride:

Now this is the more difficult opening move as Panther will come into this fight knowing next to nothing about Pride and his abilities. However to quote T'challa himself, he has spent his life preparing for the unknown. For that reason he will likely approach this fight the same way he did the Super-Skrull seen in the See Wakanda and Die story arc:

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Black Panther Vol. 4 #40

Since Pride is unknown entity to him, Black Panther would have to feel him out and get a sense for how his powers work. When Pride inevitably uses his powers, it won't be hard to tell that or for BP to deduce that he uses his shadows that originate from his shadow as his main source of attack. That is when he can re-coordinate with Bruce and gain access to a flashbang or tech that cause some sort of smokescreen to cut off his main attack method. As a form of defense Panther can use his energy daggers, claws forcefield or the defensive nature of his Panther Habit to stave off Pride's attacks.

That's all I will discuss for now and leave the remaining strategy of Batman to my partner and wait to respond after your team has gone. But the main points I want to get across are this:

  • Panther can and will make Slade's Firearms useless at the beginning of the battle
  • He has the means to deduce the styles and tells of Slade and Pride's fighting and abilities
  • Can readily coordinate with Batman and get to him quickly using teleportation
  • Can deal and defend with Pride's main form of attack.

Closing & Conclusion:

With this opener I have gone over and introduced Black Panther's arsenal and skills. The next post will go into more depth of what he can do and how well he can use his arsenal, along with the developing strategy and counters to take down Slade and Pride. I will also be expecting a few things to debate, namely:

  • Teamwork
  • Tech vs Powers (Pride)
  • Morals and Holding Back

Looking forward to all of your openers and arguments. Good luck to us all!

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#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally a FMAB character in a cav! T4V.

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#21 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by ASGARDIANBRONY (11629 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, The Dark Knight:

"Everything you know, everything you own: I'm taking it all. " - Batman confronting Darkseid in JLA: Rock of Ages

Opening Theme:

One of my favorites, by the legendary Hans Zimmer:

Loading Video...

Introduction:

Here is a collection of Batman Bios, filled with some general info about his history and powers/abilities:

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Scan sources:

  • Scan 1: DC Comics Encyclopedia 2004
  • Scan 2: Who’s Who In The DC Universe #16
  • Scan 3: Who’s Who ‘87 #1
  • Scan 4: JLA: Secret Files And Origins #1
  • Scan 5: Batman: Secret Files And Origins
  • Scan 6-7: Batman Vol. 1 #13
  • Scan 8: Random DC Profile by Jim Lee (2002)
  • Scan 9: The Essential Batman Encyclopedia

Abilities:

  • Genius Level Intellect:
  1. Polymath
  2. Deduction, crime solving and detective work
  3. Meditation
  4. Engineering
  5. Acting
  6. Marksmanship
  7. Stealth
  8. Cunning/Trickery
  9. Prep
  10. Escape Artistery
  11. Biology
  12. Chemistry
  13. Magic(he’s used a very powerful and advanced spell before)
  14. Linguistics
  15. Hypnosis and Neuro Linguistic Programming
  16. Hacking
  17. Strategy/Tactics
  18. Martial arts Knowledge
  19. Assassination(Deathstroke noted he would be a great assassin)
  • Master Combatant
  • Access to high level tech
  • Peak Human Condition
  • Acrobatics
  • Eidetic Memory/Total Recall
  • Lip reading
  • Interrogation
  • Intimidation
  • Willpower
  • Tracking
  • Disguise
  • Business

And the list goes on and on...

Gear I: The Batsuit

Gauntlets:

He can fire multiple projectiles from his gauntlets, as well as block swords with them.

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  • Scan 1: States that the paralytic toxin launched from his gauntlets and jet glider is enough to put down a double decker bus. (Batman Vol. 3 #7)
  • Scan 2: Launches mini smokescreen missiles. (Justice League Vol. 2 #1)
  • Scan 6-3: Releases mini gas pellets. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #3)
  • Scan 4: It fires hardening foam. (Batman: Odyssey Vol. 2 #6)
  • Scan 5: Launches multiple batarangs, which hurt Bane. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs Bane)
  • Scab 7: Uses his gauntlet to block a katana from Deathstroke. (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #5)

Boots:

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  • Scan 1: Releases multiple flashbangs from his boots, making a large AoE flashbang. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #27)
  • Scan 2: Uses them to fly by releasing smoke then releases a large smokescreen. (Batman Vol. 2 #37)

Utility Belt:

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  • Scan 1-2: Uses an energy deflection system to reflect Mr. Toxin’s energy. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #11)
  • Scan 3: His utility belt can send a 50k shock. (Nightwing Vol. 1 #14)
  • Scan 4: His suit redirects electricity to some thugs and penguin. Not his utility belt but I couldn’t fit this anywhere else. (Batman Vol. 2 #44)
  • Scan 5: His belt buckle releases knockout gas. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #40)
  • Scan 6: Uses an EMP from his belt to shut down the entire arkham asylum. (Batman Vol. 2 #16)

Gear II: General

Batarangs:

They’re fairly versatile and have better piercing than bullets.

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  • Scan 1: Uses acid batarangs on Emperor Penguin, hurting him. EP was amped on venom, man-bat serum and by Poison Ivy. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #20)
  • Scan 2-4: Uses nth metal batarang on Gentleman Ghost. For their piercing feats, nth metal can scratch Superman so it should cut through Slade’s armor easily. (Batman Eternal #6)
  • Scan 3: His batarangs pierce Killer Croc who bullets can’t pierce. (Batman Vol. 1 #642)
  • Scan 5: Electric batarangs hurt Ra’s. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #32)

Explosives:

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  • Scan 1: Batgrandes cause a big explosion. (Batman Vol. 1 #641)
  • Scan 2-5: Some explosives send a young rookie Superman flying out of a building. (Batman/Superman #1)
  • Scan 3-4: A tiny attached explosive damages Lincoln March’s armor which has no sold punches from Batman. (Batman Vol. 2 #11)

Versatility:

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  • Scan 1: The cable line in his grapnel gun has a 15 ton breaking strain. Wraps it around an enemy. (Batman Confidential #2)
  • Scan 4-2: Utilizes a propulsion gadget to weaponize a garbage bin. (Batman Vol. 1 #641)
  • Scan 3: Has a unique gadget that’s like Darkseid’s omega beams but is a line of wire that traps an opponent. (Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 1 #2)
  • Scan 5: Uses fast acting hardening foam to restrain a guy. (Batman Vol. 1 #626)
  • Scan 6: Uses a freezing ray on some Talons. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs Bane)

Gear III: Application

Gear is cool and all but we need to see how Bruce uses it mid combat.

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  • Scan 1: Uses a propulsion gadget to propel Brick(a guy was pushing cars around like nothing) backwards. (Green Arrow Vol. 3 #71)
  • Scan 2-3: In his second fight against Emperor Penguin - who was amped by Poison Ivy, Venom and a Man-Bat serum - he uses acid batarangs, a powerful taser that damages him then some poison gas. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #20)
  • Scan 4: Beats Artemis with a tranq dart. (Superman/Batman #9)

Vs a prototype/old model of Amazo. Batman Vol. 1 #637

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  • Scan 1: Throws some explosives to distract Amazo.
  • Scan 2: Had placed explosive batarangs at Amazo which had damaged him.
  • Scan 3: Uses his grapnel to hang with Amazo.
  • Scan 4-5: Attaches plastique explosives to Amazo’s eyes, damaging him when he used heat vision to explode them.

TL;DR Of Gear:

Bruce has loads of versatility. He has multiple weaponry that can significantly damage anyone here. Gadgets such as the propulsion thing and omega beam-like cable allow him to utilize his environment effectively. His application of gear mid battle just makes him all the more dangerous.

Physicals And Skill:

Striking Power:

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  • Scan 1: Oneshots a kobra-human hybrid with a kick. These things can no sell bullets and tank a small missile. (Trinity Vol. 2 #16)
  • Scan 2: Oneshots a giant mech with a kick. (Batwing #23)
  • Scan 3: Twoshots Mr. Freeze bulletproof helmet. (Brightest Day #14)

Reaction Time/Combat Speed:

Batman is easily a bullet timer, even casual.

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  • Scan 1: Block/deflects multiple bullets with a chain. (Batman Black and White #2: Monster Maker)
  • Scan 2: Bruce literally dances around bullets. Doubles as an agility feat. (Detective Comics #577)
  • Scan 3: Dodges some bullets. Thing is, he didn’t even know the cops were there. He was busy interrogating Wrath about where the cops are. So he din’t even have time to ready himself like most bullet timers. (Batman Confidential #15)

Durability/Pain Tolerance:

For pain tolerance, there is his fight against Ra’s from Batman: Birth Of The Demon:

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  • Scan 4: He is lit on fire but still keeps fighting normally.
  • Scan 1: Ra’s puts a shovel through his lung
  • Scan 2-3: Keeps walking and fighting fine

For raw durability, And in his fight with Lincoln March, he got rammed and thrown through walls multiple times, thrown at a glass wall by March when flying, thrown through a building at a bell then drops from high atop Gotham through a glass wall, and no sells a small explosion. Batman Vol. 2 #11

Then there is his fight with Eddie Hurst amped by The Randori Stonem where he tanked multiple hits from him. Detective Comics #788

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Eddie here can easily lift a desk, break a building pillar holding a building through his punches and strikes way harder than bullets.

As for explosive/energy durability - in case Slade uses his energy staff or explosives - Batman can no sell them just fine.

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  • Scan 4-1: No sells a bazooka then a landmine. (Batman Vol. 2 #15)
  • Scan 2-3: Is unfazed after a building explosion. (Detective Comics #743-744)

Skill I: Knowledge:

Here are two scans confirming Batman has mastered every martial art/violent art/whatever:

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  • Scan 1: Has mastered all fighting arts. (Detective Comics #411)
  • Scan 2: Has mastered all violent arts and can incap a thug in 463 ways without drawing blood. (Batman: The Widening Gyre #4)

Skill II: Application

Bruce is way more skilled than Slade by good chunk.

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  • Scan 1: Was stalemating Karate Kid even tho he was in zero gravity - something he isn’t used to - while KK was using anti gravity martial arts. He also states that he could learn much from Batman. Karate Kid has mastered every martial art up to the 30th century and is skilled enough to use super karate which has allowed him to hold off Superboy, Super Karate basically makes him mid tier. Bruce probably isn’t as skilled KK but fact that he could stalemate him for an amount of time while at a disadvantage and that KK states he could learn from him shows just how skilled Batman is. (Brave And The Bold Vol. 3 #5)
  • Scan 2-4: Stalemating Lady Shiva till Robin interfered. Lady Shiva is good enough to fight Ra’s Al Ghul, Bronze Tiger and some others while pregnant. (Batman Vol. 1 #427)

Opening Strategy:

Deathstroke:

Now afaik, this is Slade’s normal gear:

  • Guns
  • Explosives
  • Titanium/energy staff
  • Katana
  • Prometheium sword

Batman has what it takes to counter all of them:

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Vs Guns/Bullets:

  • Scan 1: Bullets go through his armor but he is completely unfazed. (Batman and Robin Vol. 2 #25)

Vs Titanium/Energy Staff:

  • Scan 2-3: Batman uses his reflector gadget in his utility belt to reflect Mr. Toxin’s energy beams. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #11)
  • Scan 8-5: He uses chaff grenades to deflect Dr. Light’s energy beams. (Superman/Batman #43)

Vs Katana and Prometheium Sword:

  • Scan 4-6: Uses a coin magnet to attract The Whisper Gang with their machetes to the train. He could just use this to take Slade’s katana and sword. (Batman Vol. 2 #1)
  • Scan 7: Depending on their durability, Batman can just use his batarangs to break them like he did Ra’s damascus blade here. (Batman: The Chalice)

If the methods for Slade’s energy staff don’t work, Batman can just tank them like he did to that bazooka, landmine and building explosion I showed. As well as tank his explosives. Basically, all of Slade’s gear is nullified.

Now there’s his nth metal armor but Bruce can just use his magnet batarang to magnetize it to whatever magnetic metal is close. Green Lantern Vol. 4 #16

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Pride:

My partner mentioned BP getting a flashbang from Bruce as its a weakness to Pride, here are how powerful his flashbangs can be:

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  • Scan 1: Flashbang temporarily blind a weakened(like multi city level) Superman. (Batman Vol. 1 #612)
  • Scan 2: A flashbang from Bruce’ utility belt makes a painfully bright AoE flashbang. (Batman Eternal #45)

TL;DR:

  • Slade’s gear is effectively countered
  • His nth metal armor is a weakness due to Batman’s magnetic batarangs. When Bruce uses it, he can then use whatever gear he wants on Slade - finishing him off.
  • Batman has powerful enough flashbangs to counter Pride

Conclusion:

Batman has the requirements to take care of Slade’s gear as well as counter Pride with his flashbangs. He has the stats and skill to keep up, he might actually be superior to Slade but I don’t know too much about him so I’ll wait for your post. Batman’s magnetic batarangs are an instant GG. I’ll go more in depth next post on how Bruce will win.

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@causeimbatman: Awesome, detailed openers guys, keep it up.

(Trust This is up next, right?)

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by deactivated-5b0ff1f569a57 (4213 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthjhawk: @trust_this_786@causeimbatman

I will copy your formats so I won't be out of place.

Pride, The First Homunculus

"What was it you were always saying? That you wanted to see which way the world would choose? And here you are, dying like a pathetic wreck. It must be humiliating." -Pride to Kimblee

Theme Song

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Bio:

Pride is one of the secondary antagonists in the Fullmetal Alchemist manga and second anime series. He is the first homunculus created by Father (the primary antagonist of the series). He lives with the homunculus Wrath, the ruler of the country of Amestris known by the population as King Bradley, posing as his adopted son Selim to create a facade of benevolence.

Villains Wiki

Shadows

Unlike Bats and BP, Pride is a much more basic but still very deadly. Just to demonstrate his power I will separate the scans into 3 categories, speed, strength and size.

Speed:

Pride's shadows are fast enough to force Ed to go on the defensive and even overwhelm him at the end (note: Ed turn his arm into a substance like Greed's shield which is how he blocked the attacks).

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Sorry for the bad quality, haven't learned why it looks that way yet.

Edward btw, is a bullet timer (who also regularly goes toe toe with extremely casual bullet timers, which I might show later)

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Pride is also able to tag Alphonse Elric, Al later goes on to close the distance and nearly tag Pride

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But Pride tags him again after that.

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And of course Al is also a bullet timer like his brother, but instead of dodging bullets here is a scan of him blocking bullets from Father while he has across the room.

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TL;DR Pride's shadows can tag and overwhelm bullet timers.

Strength:

Pride's shadows can cut through basically anything that isn't made out of carbon. Like a massive tree.

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The roof of a car and two trees.

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A thick wall of Ed's alchemy.

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Or a thick wall of Al's alchemy....and Al's arm.

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And as I showed you earlier, Al is bullet proof so this feat is doubly impressive. Al is bullet proof to even minigun fire.

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TL;DR Anything that isn't Vibranium will likely get sliced.

Size:

Pride can use larger shadows as well for more devastating attacks like this one he used to smash the ground.

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Or this one which he used to bulldoze Hoenheim's alchemy (although it was in a cave so Pride has much more shadows to use).

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He can also create multiple large ones which all nearly tag Ed (although Pride wasn't really trying to tag Ed, just pin him).

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TL;DR If Pride feels like it, he can use larger, more devastating attacks using the same deadly speed.

Body:

Pride normally uses his shadows to attack however he still posses feats that come with his body (not enough to warrant their own sections though). For examples, his physical speed is enough to dodge both Ed and Al while he was massively weakened.

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He also dodges Heinkel's first attacks until he decides to take the damage.

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Each attack Heinkel landed was meant to kill Pride. But as he says in the manga.

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Which is a given, since Gluttony was able to heal from all this damage (and since their regen comes from their stones, not only does Pride have the same level of healing but he should be much more potent, given the fact that he consumed 2 other stones asides from the one Father gave him).

Asides from the regen and the speed, Pride also has an enhanced sense of smell thanks to him eating Gluttony's philosopher stone. With his senses he claims that he is able to smell movement

"Ah, this should make things much easier, I can practically smell movement you make. I could do without the ravenous hunger, but I suppose I'll just have to secede it. Oh wait...I recognize that scent. You're somewhere close by aren't you? Hohenheim?"

Which he later goes on to prove when he detects Al through smoke.

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TL;DR Pride is fast, has a crazy healing factor and can detect you wherever you are. So even if you get passed his shadows you will be hard pressed to actually put him down, and you can't rely on stealth either.

Strategy: Slice & Dice

Now that you know more about Selim Bradley, we can get into the meat of this discussion. Pride vs Black Panther/Batman.

Black Panther:

The strat is simple really, overwhelm the Panther. See there are 3 things Pride unarguably has over BP and they are:

1. Morals. Pride will not hold back at all, he will fight dirty and do whatever it takes. BP will hold back, even more towards Pride since he is just a kid.

2. RPS. I didn't know what to call this but Pride can attack BP a lot more times in a second that BP can attack Pride, and Pride can do it from any/all angles.

3. He is not a human. BP is amazing but he still tiers, he is just a man after all. But Pride is not, neither him or his shadows will slow down or get exhausted, no matter how long the battle Pride can keep up the pace he started with.

But that isn't all, BP also has one major weakness against Pride and that is cutting durability. See BP has good cutting durability against normal knives, but he can be cut if you are strong enough and cut the right places as seen here.

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Exploiting all three advantages and the weakness means Pride will just keep attacking BP from all angles until he kills him, plain and simple.

Batman:

I highly doubt that Bats would be able to beat DS, but even if he does Pride does the same thing he does to BP except this time he would be facing a weaker opponent (since if Bats beats DS, he will 100% at least get tired or injured).

Counters: Black Panther's Strategy

That was my plan, now let me address yours.

Now this is the more difficult opening move as Panther will come into this fight knowing next to nothing about Pride and his abilities. However to quote T'challa himself, he has spent his life preparing for the unknown. For that reason he will likely approach this fight the same way he did the Super-Skrull seen in the See Wakanda and Die story arc: When Pride inevitably uses his powers, it won't be hard to tell that or for BP to deduce that he uses his shadows that originate from his shadow as his main source of attack.

Yes, I must admit that T'challa is a very intelligent character and he would be able to deduce Pride's powerset however I doubt it will be easy as this

That is when he can re-coordinate with Bruce and gain access to a flashbang or tech that cause some sort of smokescreen to cut off his main attack method.

See, once Pride uses his shadows, there won't be any breathing room. He won't let you re-coordinate and he will certainly not allow you to pass around gear. Also, you can see above (in his scent scan) Pride can use his shadows under Al's smoke screens just fine.

As a form of defense Panther can use his energy daggers,

I imagine that you are assuming that Pride's shadows would be weak against them due to the nature of his powers? Because if so you would be mistaken, Pride's shadows can directly touch a source of life and not be harmed at all. It is only weak to incredibly bright lights like a flashbang.

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Now, if you are not saying that and just mean that he can use the daggers to parry attacks then I can see that happening. But I would imagine that BP would be as overwhelmed as Ed and wouldn't have time to talk to Bruce or take his flashbangs.

claws forcefield

Now yes, T'challa does have a shield but that won't do much good, because from the scan you showed, his shield was being shattered by bullets.

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You do mention that those were powerful bullets. But a minigun is amazingly powerful as well yet Al tanks shots from one with ease while at the same time easily getting pierced by Pride's shadows, even through a thick shield (which blocked an attack from Kimblee earlier). So I doubt that BP's shield will last.

or the defensive nature of his Panther Habit to stave off Pride's attacks.

So far it can turn him invisible, shut down tech, make hard light shields (seemingly less powerful than the one above based on the damage Proxima caused on the two bystanders), redirect energy and teleport.

But the problem is, Pride can most probably detect him via scent as you did not mention being odorless so there goes invisibility, Pride also has no tech to shut down or energy to redirect (asides from kinetic) so there goes that and as I said the hard light shield didn't seem all that durable or big. So far only teleportation would be an issue but as I showed, Pride can use massive attacks to compensate.

TL;DR Once the shadows move BP will be attacked by an unrelenting barrage of shadows, cutting him off from doing anything else except dodging. His tricks are cool but they wouldn't buy him much time if at all.

Counters: Batman

My partner mentioned BP getting a flashbang from Bruce as its a weakness to Pride, here are how powerful his flashbangs can be:

I've gone into detail on why I think BP won't be getting any flashbangs however I think there is some misconception about the flashbangs, see Pride isn't weak to flashbangs only his shadows are. What's the difference? Well, if Pride was weak to flashbangs he wouldn't recover from them this quickly.

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As you can see from those scans, the page after it showed his shadows dissolving he was literally already able to use them. So it vaporized his shadows for only a few seconds. And yes, you do have really strong flashbangs but the ones used on Pride were so bright that the village from below the mountain they were on could see the light.

As a side point, Pride could likely slice down any thrown flash grenades like he does here:

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Now that does turn out to be a decoy and Al had two flashbangs but I don't see why Pride couldn't do that to your flashbangs.

TL;DR Your counter to Pride would only last a few seconds and can be cut down. Which is why in the anime, Pride is only defeated by flashbangs when a cage is thrown at him at the same time the flashbang is. That and you only have so many flashbangs (10-20 from what you've told me).

Conclusion:

I know we all have more to say but for now I will just end with saying that Pride is a beast, one that will be incredibly difficult to deal with. Now you know why even Greed considers him to be a monster.

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#31 Posted by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthjhawk: Also, btw as I re-read your post, it seemed as if you were debating against Bruce based on your TLDRs, might just be me though.

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#34 Posted by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: yeah some parts I took from my debate against CIB and I didn’t need to change the content but forgot to change the TLDRs

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#35 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthjhawk: Oh, lol. Well you should probably change it (but BP shutting off Bruce from his tech does sound nice).

Also btw, I fixed some glaring grammar problems and added a side pointing my post.

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#36 Posted by Darthjhawk (5638 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#40 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18577 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm said:

@watcherking: Really, you're a king now too? Lol.

lol, yep.

Edit: I may change it again though, not sure if I like it how it is.

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#50 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18023 posts) - - Show Bio