CaV: Deathstroke(BPIB) VS. Batman(CIB)

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@causeimbatman: Still editing, will let you know when my post is full completed.

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Final Counters

No Caption Provided

Lady Shiva Comparison

I'm going to elaborate a bit more on Shiva's skill tier, to show just how massively, massively, more skilled Batman is. First I'd like to note how their fight stated they're equal in skill....

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Now, on to Shiva's skill feats,. First, have her ROFL-stomping Nightwing, one-shotting him (Green Arrow Vol. 2 #135)

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Dick isn't exactly skill-less. He was able to fight freakin' Deathstroke (the Post-Crisis version) extremely well, even matching him (Nightwing Vol. 2 #18). This isn't a one time thing either, given how Dick matched him another time (Nightwing Vol. 2 #117). And AGAIN (The Titans Vol. 2 #29). Not only that, but even as Robin he was taught all forms of combat (New Teen Titans Vol. 1 #25). So we have Nightwing matching Slade 3 times, yet Shiva comes in and ROFL-stomps one-shots him. This is a lvl of skill Slade is nowhere remotely close to, in fact he would get stomped by this skill tier. But Shiva has way better skill feats than this, like defeating Conner Hawke in a good fight (Green Arrow Vol. 2 #135)

Hawke is no slouch, given how he murderstomped the Bamboo Monkey (Nightwing Vol. 2 #23)

No Caption Provided

Bamboo Monkey was curbstomping Nightwing and Tim Drake at the same time, in the same issue.

And Tim has good skill feats. For instance, he fought Dick (as Batman) extremely well. So Tim is a decentish mid street, Nightwing is solidly mid street. Bamboo Monkey comes in and godstomps them at the same time. Then Bamboo Monkey ROFL-stomped by Conner Hawke. And Conner gets beat by Shiva. Just to get a clear cut view of the hierarchy:

Batman=Lady Shiva>Conner Hawke>>>>Bamboo Monkey>>>>Nightwing and Tim Drake. This is a level of skill Slade doesn't operate at, nowhere near remotely close to what would be remotely close to Batman's skill tier and the main reason he would get stomped in CQC. I highly doubt his skill lvl would be capable of ROFL-stomping Nightwing, let alone the Bamboo Monkey. But it gets arguably better, Shiva godstomped Cassandra Cain (Batgirl Vol. 1 #25)

You might scream "inconsistency!" because Cassie has beaten Shiva twice. But the times she beat Shiva, you'd notice Cass is more brutal, using more lethal strikes. In her first, fair fight with Shiva, she was completely morals on. My proof comes from Cassie herself (Batgirl Vol. 1 #9)

So Cassandra had lost her move reading. Shiva offers to re-teach it to her. But at a price: After a year, they'll fight a fight to the death. However, Cassie won't try to kill Shiva. She'll just pretend to go all out. So Shiva's feat of stomping Cassandra is valid. And Morals On Cassandra Cain has incredibly impressive feats. She was beating Deathstroke quite handily (Nightwing Vol. 2 #81), forcing Slade to retreat.

Yet Shiva stomps her. And Bruce still matches Shiva. All to cement how Bruce is masssively, masssively more skilled than Slade to the point CQC would be a stomp.

More Skill Feats

Ra's Al Ghul

Let's bring Bruce curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul (Detective Comics #840)

In reverse order

Ra's is more skilled than Slade by quite a solid margin. He has beaten Nightwing rather easily, with Dick only tagging him once (Detective Comics #700). I've shown Dick matching Deathstroke multiple times, and being taught all combat forms yet Ra's still defeats, easily at that. It is important to note Dick was wounded by a gunshot, but Richard has great feats of endurance that I can show. So meh.

This is a H2H skill feat. Ra's also used a sword in his fight with Bruce, and still got stomped. And Ra's has excellent swordsmanship feats. He's curbstomped Bane (Batman: Bane Of The Demon #4), for instance. An arguably better feat is godstomping Red Robin (Red Robin #12). And I've shown Tim fighting Nightwing very well. Yet Batman still curbstomps Ra's...Furthermore, Bruce has matched Post Flashpoint Lady Shiva (Detective Comics #956)

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Lady Shiva

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Same Shiva that murder-stomped a group of Colony Soldiers in literally 10 seconds (Detective Comics #952)

And Colony Soldiers are insanely skilled, for instance a single Colony was beating Azrael in CQC then the fight ended up a stomp for the Colony Soldier due to gear (Detective Comics #934)

Azrael is no slouch either, he has matched Red Robin and Redhood in CQC at the same time. These Colony Soldiers are genuine mid street levelers, yet Lady Shiva curbstomps them in 10 seconds. But that's not it for Shiva's skill. She has also curbstomped Cassandra Cain (Detective Comics #952)

And again (Detective Comics #953)

Cassandra is insanely skilled too, she's beaten 6 Colony Soldiers (Detective Comics #938)

Yet Bruce matches her. Lady Shiva curbstomps genuine mid streets, heck she curbstomped Cassandra Cain who has beaten 6 mid street levelers. There are some counters I can see you using for this feat:

  • Your Counter: Lady Shiva stomped Batman in the same story line so that's not very consistent
  • My Counter: She got him in a submission hold. That's a very specific move, that you don''t get the chance to do very often
  • Your Counter: Cassandra getting stomped by Shiva twice is inconsistent PIS, since Cassie beat her at the end of the storyline
  • My Counter: Cassandra only beat Shiva once. Shiva beat her twice. Shiva's track record against Cass is more consistent
  • Your Counter: That's a Post Flashpoint Batman skill feat. I've shown Slade matching him, so your feat doesn't prove much.
  • My Counter: Slade fought Pre-Dionesium Bruce. After their fight, Bruce had all his previous injuries healed by Dionesium, making him the fastest and strongest Batman since ever (Batman Vol. 2 #50)
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Why does a physical amp matter you ask? Speed. Speed is the most closely related stat to skill. To execute a move, you need the speed to do it before your opponent reacts. But for the move to work despite your opponent's skill and defense, you need skill. And Bruce likely got a good physical boost from this. Consider the injuries he took over the years:

  • Batman Vol. 2 #33: Has his heart stop for a few minutes
  • Batman: Birth Of The Demon (Post-Crisis story but it's canon to Post Flashpoint): Was radioactively poisoned, lit on fire then had a shovel stuck through his gut
  • Batman #671 (Post Crisis story but it's canon to Post Flashpoint. Can provide proof if needed): Stabbed by a stick pole through his body and lung
  • Batman Vol. 2 #6: He is dehydrated and starved for a whole week, gets the shit beaten out of him then has a blade stuck through him
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #14: In addition to being beaten by Scarecrow and being dosed with Super Fear Toxin, he takes a scythe all the way through his upper chest and neck
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #15: Essentially almost all his blood is drained to save Gotham
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #29: Is bitten by a Man-Bat in the lungs
  • Batman Vol. 2 #40: Bruce is stabbed through the shoulders, in the eyes, lungs and head and proceeds to have his face burned

Overall, the poor guy took some pretty serious injuries so I'd think the dionesium boost to be pretty decent. Granted, a lot of these weren't permanent but It would be delusional to think they didn't have any long term effects on Batman's body. I also have a lot of other proof that the dionesium boost was decent, which I can show if needed.

========================================================================================================================================

Prometheus

Let's establish Prometheus first. He has the combined skills and physical prowess of DC's top 30 fighters, including Batman himself (JLA #16). He also has millisecond+ reaction time and arguable combat speed (I say combat speed because Prometheus generated an energy shield, then jumped/moved precisely enough to deflect the photon blast to Guardian's eyes), given how he reacted to Dr. Light's photon blast in a 0.0003 time frame, so his speed should compliment his skill well. And beating him despite his speed would be a pretty impressive feat (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6).

In Batman's first encounter against Prometheus, he got stomped pretty much (JLA #16-17)

Scan order is broken, so the proper order is:

  • Scan 3
  • Scan 1
  • Scan 2

Anyway, that's their first fight. Rematches give you a chance to win, and that's what happened in their second fight. Despite Prometheus having the combined fighting skill and physical prowess of DC's top 30 fighters, including Batman and having millisecond+ reaction time and arguable combat speed, Bruce still curbstomped Prometheus in their rematch (JLA #38)

Lemme ask you a question: Do you think Deathstroke is comparable skill-wise to a character that has the combined skills and physical prowess of Batman himself and the others top 29 DC fighters? If not, he gets curbstomped in CQC. Even if he was comparable to Prometheus, Bruce has curbstomped Prometheus. Another question: Do you think he can beat Prometheus if he was switched with Batman, if Prometheus had the combined skills and physical prowess of Slade and the other top 29 DC Fighters? If not, he gets stomped as well. This is a lvl of skill Slade just doesn't operate at, he is nowhere remotely close to what would be considered remotely close of what would be considered remotely close to this skill tier.

Your Counters - Skill

No, you're just highly overestimating it, you need to display him actually going untouched by highly skilled opponents for it to be impressive, you need to show him using his many different styles to dismantle armies or highly skilled individuals.

I showed him curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul. Anyway, where's the feat of Slade hanging with a fighting style so unpredictable?

Statements don't matter, on there own

No offense, but that's terrible logic. This isn't just a "statement", it's a description of the fighting style Bruce normally uses in combat.

and showing him defeat tworandom fodder untouched isn't impressive at all.

When did I ever say that was impressive?

When he goes up against an army of 300 hundred armed soldiers using his guns and swords he quickly reduces that number down to 119,

This isn't a good skill feat, more so a good gear usage feat. Mostly Slade thinned down their numbers due to his fire rate, to the point he can a dozen+ bullets while using acrobatics. Then he cut them apart using swords, which is a decent swordsmanship feat I guess. But none of that is H2H combat.

honestly taking out almost 200 armed men in close quarters with getting tagged is far more impressive than defeating two random fodder using a variety of skills.

I NEVER said beating random fodder is impressive. I was just noting Batman's fighting style.

Frankly the more I think about this the more I realize that it's PIS, what you're telling me is that Karate Kid had an advantage due to the machines and Batman was still matched with him in skill? Frankly Batman simply can't be as skilled, or even close to as skilled as KK. It's pretty simple Batman doesn't consistently have the high tier level feats that KK gets from skill alone. If Batman was equal or superior to KK he would be slicing through high tiers like Equus, or dodging speed force lightning, things that KK can do through raw skill alone. Unless you can show me Batman consistently operating at high tier levels of skill alone I don't see how this could possibly be consistent.

IIRC Val is only so skilled because of usage of some specific martial arts, which Bruce might not know about.

Don't forget that he also destroyed Ollie's sidekick and their wolf, but this is still the lower end for Post Flashpoint Deathstroke

Beating a wolf isn't impressive LMFAO, as for Emiko she doesn't have impressive feats AFAIK.

who I've displayed outskilling Post Flashpoint Batman

What in the hell? Slade stated that he was getting the shit beaten out of him and stated that he was being outfought, outsmarted and outmatched.

He only gained an advantage at the end because Bruce has a cape, there isn't any martial art telling you how to defend from your cape getting used against you. I really don't see how grabbing a cape is skill.

and crubstomping Bronze Tiger

I'll address that later.

, both feats should suggest that Stroke' could hold his own, but I'll get into that soon.

Even if your feats are legit, Post Flashpoint Batman and Bronze Tiger are nowhere remotely close to Post Crisis Batman's skill tiers.

Its never really confirmed that Slade got back to full power, but by the time he gets to the Godkiller arc it was pretty clear that he was no longer weakened. He was only pretty clearly weakened through the first arc in the series where he was facing BT, Batman, and his father.

The fact that he had two eyes hindered his fighting skill so fair enough.

Actually Jason has some other fairly impressive feats, for example he was able to outskill and gain the upper hand against PF Cassandra:

Granted she was no where near as skill as she is now, but she had some solid feats at that point, like curbstomping PF Grayson while holding back. And Dick is pretty damn skilled himself, whilst weakened he can hold his own against PF Shiva, and has briefly matched and held the upper hand against Midnighter, a guy with pre cog and physicals that dwarf most street levelers. So I would say that this alone puts PF Red Hood not far out from Post Crisis Batman.

There's some context to that, Jason stated he read her reading him meaning he has to surprise himself with new moves/tactics. He wasn't strait up outskilling him, he just had a counter to her move reading.

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Landing blows and dodging/blocking blocking them definitely counts as skill, at least when facing off against a master. Hell just look at this MMA fight between Michael Chandler vs. Eddie Alvarez, these are some of the most skilled individuals in the world, masters of multiple different styles, and most of their fight consists of throwing, dodging and blocking blows. No fancy martial arts moves need to be employed, that's the difference between martial skill and martial arts. There are no fancy rules or maneuvers that need to be employed, alot of a real fight is just the skill, tactics, and body reading of exchanging blows/grappling, whereas in martial arts there are a lot of fancy moves involved, and it is far far less effective. Look at this fight between Xu Xiaodong (not an MMA champion but rather an MMA gym owner/teacher, who isn't nearly as impressive as professional MMA fighters, let alone MMA champions) and one of the top Tai Chi masters in all of China: It's a damn curbstomp, with simple blows, blocks, and dodges Xu ends the fight in 30 seconds. And just to prove that it's consistent he does the same to a triple black belt master of Wing Chun Kung Fu. So its clear that the skills that actually help you win a fight aren't fancy karate moves, but are rather good timing, effective body reading, comprehensive blocks, good dodges, and well placed blows, so I would say that Deathstroke and BT are certainly using skill here.

The problem is, Slade didn't have much blocks or dodges in that fight. Slade swiped BT with a knife, then kept punching him repeatedly. Obviously there's some skill in that, but mainly that shows Slade's striking power, rather than H2H skill. For H2H skill I want to see dodges, blocks, precise moves, etc.

Hell even in DC one of the most skilled fighters, the guy who trained Black Canary and helped to train Batman, and who is definitely considered one of DCs top fighters, is Wildcat. And Wildcat is a boxer, which is pretty much the art of throwing and dodging a punch, yet he is still wildly regarded as one of the most skilled fighters in the DCU, and he's actually given Batman a hard time in the past.

He's regarded as one of the best boxers, not skilled fighters. And no, he hasn't given Bruce a hard time. I mean, it was a decent fight but Batman ended up winning pretty handily (Batman/Wildcat #3).

Skill isn't indicated by what fancy moves you employ, its indicated by feats. How many people can you take on at once, how many other skilled individuals can you defeat, does your skill allow you to hold your own against people out of your league in terms of physicals? It's not defined by statements and it's definitely not defined by martial arts moves.

Can you point me to when I said skill is defined by statements and fancy moves?

A spar is still indicative of skill, and they seemed to be at least on par with each other, BT may have had a small edge

It is, but in a real fight you use more "lethal" and more brutal strikes, grapple, etc. Which is what we need to see, we can't use a spar to showcase how a normal fight would go.

Also saying "you're slower" doesn't mean speed was the main factor in the fight, it means that it was a factor, but it doesn't mean that it was the main one.

If Ben thought it was so important to note, then it definitely is. Again, speed is the most closely related stat to skill and the character mentioning it means it was writers intent that it's a very important factor. Ben being faster than before can be the main factor as to execute a move, you need to do it before your opponent reacts and/or counters it.

In fact skill seemed to be the most significant factor in the fight since BT won by out grappling Batman and getting him in a hold, which requires skill, not speed.

Most skill feats are 50 percent speed, 50 percent skill. Also Bruce rarely ever does engage in grapple, so I don't think this holds up well if you're making a comparison between Bruce and Slade's fights against Bronze Tiger.

Who has pretty insane skill, while maybe not quite on the level of his Post Crisis counterpart he's pretty damn close,

Not really, he would get stomped by his Post Crisis counterpart in H2H.

first of all he was able to solo an army of armed soldiers, there seemed to be dozens or potentially hundreds of them, and he comes out unscathed

I counted them and there are like 110. And while it is a very impressive skill feat, It doesn't hold up well to Post Crisis Batman curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul, matching Lady Shiva, curbstomping Prometheus.

s. Here PF Batman take on an army of 50 Colony soldiers, and while he does get defeated ultimately only tree Colony soldiers remain standing, meaning that he took out 47 of them before going down.

He wasn't holding up that well, if you look at the screens he was getting rekt for most of the fight.

And what makes this so insanely impressive is the fact a single Colony soldier could curbstomp Azeral a highly skilled street leveler with super human physicals. Taking out a small army of highly skilled street levelers who have insane gear is comparable to all of Post Crisis Batman's feats

Bruce got rekt, and no it's not comparable at all. Post Crisis Batman matches characters like Lady Shiva who has beaten Conner Hawke who has curbstomped the Bamboo Monkey, even tho the Bamboo Monkey curbstomped Nightwing and Tim Drake. Same Nightwing that matched Deathstroke on several occasions. Heck Post Crisis Batman has curbstomped Prometheus, who has Batman's own skill and the skills of DC's other top 29 fighters. Also whilst they have insane gear I'd argue Prometheus has better gear. He had an energy shield that deflected a photon blast from Dr. Light (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6), can flood his body with endorphins (JLA #38), has bullets that are too fast for Supergirl and went right through her(Justice League: Cry for Justice #6),has blades that are launched too fast for Donna Troy and went right through her Amazonian Bracelets (the same as Wonder Woman's) (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6), this energy blade that cut off Arsenal's arm (Justice League: The Rise Of Arsenal #1), neural chaff disorganizes thoughts which means you can't think properly anymore (JLA #17). Prometheus would effortlessly murder-stomp the Colony.

But he has even better feats that this: Here future Tim Drake jumps and cheapshots an unprepared suitless, gearless Batman, yet after a long and brutal fight Bruce defeats Tim, forcing Drake to use a gun to win.What makes this so impressive is the fact that future Tim has curbstomped PF Nightwing, Red Hood, current Tim, and Damian all at the same time. And I've clearly displayed that Red Hood and Nightwing have insane skill on there own, but what about Damian and Red Robin? Well through a little bit of scaling it is clear that they're in the same highly skilled ballpark as Dick and Jason. Damian has defeated Jason in CQC, and Tim and Damian fought on par for multiple pages. So Future Time was able to curbstomp four highly highly skilled individuals at once, and yet when he jumps an unprepared and unarmored Batman he still gets out skilled and defeated. That's certainly comparable to defeating matching Post Crisis Shiva in a fight. So frankly I would say that PF Batman isn't far off from his Post Crisis counterpart in skill, and could give him a damn good fight using it, so to outskill him while heavily weakened and with dampened skill should indicate Deathstroke can keep up in the skill category.

Jason's feat has been debunked so your scaling for Tim and Damien is just wrong. As for Dick, he only matched her when she was using weapons. Weapons she is feat-less with. When she actually used kicks and the like, she was stomping Grayson. As for holding his own against Midnighter, that's just massive PIS. Midnighter has dodged a dozen machine gun bullets from Deadshot, drew blood from Etrigan, tanked being smashed into the ground by a Red Lantern, heck he has stomped Nightwing so I question the consistency of that feat, etc. He isn't street level, he is decent mid tier. But hey, Grayson was written by Tom King, the same guy who had Vision solo the Avengers, so what would you expect? So yeah, while this is a good feat for PF Batman, it's not as good as you claim. Really, I don't see PF Batman godstomping the Bamboo Monkey let alone beating Conner Hawke himself. Nor do I see him curbstomping Prometheus, who has the combined skill of Batman and the other top 29 fighters.

Already elaborated on why your definition of skill is faulty,

What definition..?

but DS did actually perform some skillful moves, even based on your standards, he uses a Judo flip at the start of the fight, then he uses a throat karate chop, a standard martial arts move, and he even masterfully defeats Batman at the end by using his cape against him, which is skill.

Again, using someone's cape against him isn't skill..more so tactics. Anyway, I've already shown enough feats to show that Post Crisis Batman would stomp PF Batman. Slade was getting humiliated by PF Batman so I'm not sure why you're using this as a skill feat.

Bruce uses plenty of obvious skill just like Slade, first of all he uses grip techniques to disarm Slade, then he puts like into a hold, then blocks a Katana strike, after than he uses a flying kick, a traditional Taekwondo move, and finally he uses his cape in strikes.

Hmm, fair enough.

Not to mention the fact that they both are fighting with millisecond level timing and precision, a skill precision feat that's above anything you've displayed for Post Crisis Batman yet.

Prometheus is millisecond+ lvl. Bruce curbstomped him.

Exterior to the KK feat (which is PIS unless Batman's skill can boost him to high tier level), Deathstroke is very close to Post Crisis Batman in skill, almost evenly matched in fact. Alongside Slade's superior speed and agility he will have no problem keeping up with Batman and going blow for blow with him.

I doubt it. I haven't seen anything to suggest Slade can godstomp Nightwing, let alone the Bamboo Monkey, let alone beat Conner Hawke, let alone match Shiva. Nor have I seen anything to suggest he can curbstomp freakin' Prometheus. Batman is massively, hugely more skilled, to the point H2H is pretty much a stomp for Bruce. I mean, Post Crisis Batman normally matches characters that defeat characters that stomp mid streets (Bamboo Monkey), and then he has enough skill to curbstomp a character with his own skill and the skill of 29 extremely skilled opponents. And till now I have seen zero counters to Batman having mastered every fighting style, thus meaning he knows the perfect counter to the vast majority of Slade's moves. Please elaborate on how ''ITS A STATEMENT!" is going to change the fact that Bruce knows the counter to virtually all of Slade's moves.

Still Editing

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I imagine this post is going to long and elaborate as well.

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@all-father: Don’t worry. I’ll try and limit myself to a thousand pages :D

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T4V

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T4V

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@blackpantherisb: just so you know, my internet is going to be slow AF for the next 8 days so I'm not sure how quickly I'll be able to get the post out. Sorry for the delay.

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@blackpantherisb: posted some of it so you don't think I'm procrastinating. It's taking so long cause there's a lot to talk about. Like right now the post is 53 pages long according to google docs lmao

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@blackpantherisb: i'm posting it in two parts, as apparently my post is too big to post in one post.

@major_hellstrom lol I think I managed to get past your CV record of "biggest post ever". My current counter post is 114 pages according to google docs, and it's not even finished. LMFAO

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@lanternbatman: Lmao. GG. I hope I don't end up to breaking your record.

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T4V.This is awesome.

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Batman wins.

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Final Counters - Part 1

No Caption Provided

Lady Shiva Comparison

I'm going to elaborate a bit more on Shiva's skill tier, to show just how massively, massively, more skilled Batman is. First I'd like to note how their fight stated they're equal in skill....

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Now, on to Shiva's skill feats,. First, have her ROFL-stomping Nightwing, one-shotting him (Green Arrow Vol. 2 #135)

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Dick isn't exactly skill-less. He was able to fight freakin' Deathstroke (the Post-Crisis version) extremely well, even matching him (Nightwing Vol. 2 #18). This isn't a one time thing either, given how Dick matched him another time (Nightwing Vol. 2 #117). And AGAIN (The Titans Vol. 2 #29). Not only that, but even as Robin he was taught all forms of combat (New Teen Titans Vol. 1 #25). So we have Nightwing matching Slade 3 times, yet Shiva comes in and ROFL-stomps one-shots him. This is a lvl of skill Slade is nowhere remotely close to, in fact he would get stomped by this skill tier. But Shiva has way better skill feats than this, like defeating Conner Hawke in a good fight (Green Arrow Vol. 2 #135)

Hawke is no slouch, given how he murderstomped the Bamboo Monkey (Nightwing Vol. 2 #23)

No Caption Provided

Bamboo Monkey was curbstomping Nightwing and Tim Drake at the same time, in the same issue.

And Tim has good skill feats. For instance, he fought Dick (as Batman) extremely well. So Tim is a decentish mid street, Nightwing is solidly mid street. Bamboo Monkey comes in and godstomps them at the same time. Then Bamboo Monkey ROFL-stomped by Conner Hawke. And Conner gets beat by Shiva. Just to get a clear cut view of the hierarchy:

Batman=Lady Shiva>Conner Hawke>>>>Bamboo Monkey>>>>Nightwing and Tim Drake. This is a level of skill Slade doesn't operate at, nowhere near remotely close to what would be remotely close to Batman's skill tier and the main reason he would get stomped in CQC. I highly doubt his skill lvl would be capable of ROFL-stomping Nightwing, let alone the Bamboo Monkey. But it gets arguably better, Shiva godstomped Cassandra Cain (Batgirl Vol. 1 #25)

You might scream "inconsistency!" because Cassie has beaten Shiva twice. But the times she beat Shiva, you'd notice Cass is more brutal, using more lethal strikes. In her first, fair fight with Shiva, she was completely morals on. My proof comes from Cassie herself (Batgirl Vol. 1 #9)

So Cassandra had lost her move reading. Shiva offers to re-teach it to her. But at a price: After a year, they'll fight a fight to the death. However, Cassie won't try to kill Shiva. She'll just pretend to go all out. So Shiva's feat of stomping Cassandra is valid. And Morals On Cassandra Cain has incredibly impressive feats. She was beating Deathstroke quite handily (Nightwing Vol. 2 #81), forcing Slade to retreat.

Yet Shiva stomps her. And Bruce still matches Shiva. All to cement how Bruce is masssively, masssively more skilled than Slade to the point CQC would be a stomp.

More Skill Feats

Ra's Al Ghul

Let's bring Bruce curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul (Detective Comics #840)

In reverse order

Ra's is more skilled than Slade by quite a solid margin. He has beaten Nightwing rather easily, with Dick only tagging him once (Detective Comics #700). I've shown Dick matching Deathstroke multiple times, and being taught all combat forms yet Ra's still defeats, easily at that. It is important to note Dick was wounded by a gunshot, but Richard has great feats of endurance that I can show. So meh.

This is a H2H skill feat. Ra's also used a sword in his fight with Bruce, and still got stomped. And Ra's has excellent swordsmanship feats. He's curbstomped Bane (Batman: Bane Of The Demon #4), for instance. An arguably better feat is godstomping Red Robin(Red Robin #12). And I've shown Tim fighting Nightwing very well. Yet Batman still curbstomps Ra's...

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Lady Shiva

Furthermore, Bruce has matched Post Flashpoint Lady Shiva (Detective Comics #956)

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So Batman matched Post Flashpoint Shiva in combat. And Shiva has impressive skill feats, she curbstomped Cassandra Cain (Detective Comics #952)

And again (Detective Comics #953)

Cassandra is insanely skilled too, she has godstomped Nightwing (Batman and Robin Eternal #1)

Grayson has feats like curbstomping Mother in 5 panels (Batman and Robin Eternal #26). Mother was curbstomping Red Hood, Damien Wayne, and Tim Drake so she is greatly skilled.

So Red Hood, Damien and Tim<<<Mother<<<Nightwing<<<Cassandra Cain<<<Lady Shiva=Batman. Slade does not operate at this lvl. There are some counters I can see you using for this feat:

  • Your Counter: Lady Shiva stomped Batman in the same story line so that's not very consistent
  • My Counter: She got him in a submission hold. That's a very specific move, that you don't get the chance to do very often. Moreover, Shiva stated that she used trickery in that first fight (Detective Comics #955)
  • Your Counter: Cassandra getting stomped by Shiva twice is inconsistent PIS, since Cassie beat her at the end of the storyline
  • My Counter: Cassandra only beat Shiva once. Shiva beat her twice. Shiva's track record against Cass is more consistent
  • Your Counter: That's a Post Flashpoint Batman skill feat. I've shown Slade matching him, so your feat doesn't prove much.
  • My Counter: Slade fought Pre-Dionesium Bruce. After their fight, Bruce had all his previous injuries healed by Dionesium, making him the fastest and strongest Batman since ever (Batman Vol. 2 #50)
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Why does a physical amp matter you ask? Speed. Speed is the most closely related stat to skill. To execute a move, you need the speed to do it before your opponent reacts. But for the move to work despite your opponent's skill and defense, you need skill. And Bruce likely got a good physical boost from this. Consider the injuries he took over the years:

  • Batman Vol. 2 #33: Has his heart stop for a few minutes
  • Batman: Birth Of The Demon (Post-Crisis story but it's canon to Post Flashpoint): Was radioactively poisoned, lit on fire then had a shovel stuck through his gut
  • Batman #671 (Post Crisis story but it's canon to Post Flashpoint. Can provide proof if needed): Stabbed by a stick pole through his body and lung
  • Batman Vol. 2 #6: He is dehydrated and starved for a whole week, gets the shit beaten out of him then has a blade stuck through him
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #14: In addition to being beaten by Scarecrow and being dosed with Super Fear Toxin, he takes a scythe all the way through his upper chest and neck
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #15: Essentially almost all his blood is drained to save Gotham
  • Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #29: Is bitten by a Man-Bat in the lungs
  • Batman Vol. 2 #40: Bruce is stabbed through the shoulders, in the eyes, lungs and head and proceeds to have his face burned

Overall, the poor guy took some pretty serious injuries so I'd think the dionesium boost to be pretty decent. Granted, a lot of these weren't permanent but It would be delusional to think they didn't have any long term effects on Batman's body. I also have a lot of other proof that the dionesium boost was decent, which I can show if needed.

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Prometheus

Let's establish Prometheus first. He has the combined skills and physical prowess of DC's top 30 fighters, including Batman himself (JLA #16). He also has millisecond+ reaction time and arguable combat speed (I say combat speed because Prometheus generated an energy shield, then jumped/moved precisely enough to deflect the photon blast to Guardian's eyes), given how he reacted to Dr. Light's photon blast in a 0.0003 time frame, so his speed should compliment his skill well. And beating him despite his speed would be a pretty impressive feat (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6).

In Batman's first encounter against Prometheus, he got stomped pretty much (JLA #16-17)

Scan order is broken, so the proper order is:

  • Scan 3
  • Scan 1
  • Scan 2

Anyway, that's their first fight. Rematches give you a chance to win, and that's what happened in their second fight. Despite Prometheus having the combined fighting skill and physical prowess of DC's top 30 fighters, including Batman and having millisecond+ reaction time and arguable combat speed, Bruce still curbstomped Prometheus in their rematch (JLA #38)

Lemme ask you a question: Do you think Deathstroke is comparable skill-wise to a character that has the combined skills and physical prowess of Batman himself and the others top 29 DC fighters? If not, he gets curbstomped in CQC. Even if he was comparable to Prometheus, Bruce has curbstomped Prometheus. Another question: Do you think he can beat Prometheus if he was switched with Batman, if Prometheus had the combined skills and physical prowess of Slade and the other top 29 DC Fighters? If not, he gets stomped as well. This is a lvl of skill Slade just doesn't operate at, he is nowhere remotely close to what would be considered remotely close of what would be considered remotely close to this skill tier.

Your Counters - Skill

No, you're just highly overestimating it, you need to display him actually going untouched by highly skilled opponents for it to be impressive, you need to show him using his many different styles to dismantle armies or highly skilled individuals.

I showed him curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul. Anyway, where's the feat of Slade hanging with a fighting style so unpredictable?

Statements don't matter, on there own

No offense, but that's terrible logic. This isn't just a "statement", it's a description of the fighting style Bruce normally uses in combat.

and showing him defeat tworandom fodder untouched isn't impressive at all.

When did I ever say that was impressive?

When he goes up against an army of 300 hundred armed soldiers using his guns and swords he quickly reduces that number down to 119,

This isn't a good skill feat, more so a good gear usage feat. Mostly Slade thinned down their numbers due to his fire rate, to the point he can a dozen+ bullets while using acrobatics. Then he cut them apart using swords, which is a decent swordsmanship feat I guess. But none of that is H2H combat.

honestly taking out almost 200 armed men in close quarters with getting tagged is far more impressive than defeating two random fodder using a variety of skills.

I NEVER said beating random fodder is impressive. I was just noting Batman's fighting style.

Frankly the more I think about this the more I realize that it's PIS, what you're telling me is that Karate Kid had an advantage due to the machines and Batman was still matched with him in skill? Frankly Batman simply can't be as skilled, or even close to as skilled as KK. It's pretty simple Batman doesn't consistently have the high tier level feats that KK gets from skill alone. If Batman was equal or superior to KK he would be slicing through high tiers like Equus, or dodging speed force lightning, things that KK can do through raw skill alone. Unless you can show me Batman consistently operating at high tier levels of skill alone I don't see how this could possibly be consistent.

Val is only so skilled because of usage of some specific martial arts, which Bruce might not know about.

Don't forget that he also destroyed Ollie's sidekick and their wolf, but this is still the lower end for Post Flashpoint Deathstroke

Beating a wolf isn't impressive LMFAO, as for Emiko she doesn't have impressive feats AFAIK.

who I've displayed outskilling Post Flashpoint Batman

What in the hell? Slade stated that he was getting the shit beaten out of him and stated that he was being outfought, outsmarted and outmatched.

He only gained an advantage at the end because Bruce has a cape, there isn't any martial art telling you how to defend from your cape getting used against you. I really don't see how grabbing a cape is skill.

and crubstomping Bronze Tiger

I'll address that later.

, both feats should suggest that Stroke' could hold his own, but I'll get into that soon.

Even if your feats are legit, Post Flashpoint Batman and Bronze Tiger are nowhere remotely close to Post Crisis Batman's skill tiers.

Its never really confirmed that Slade got back to full power, but by the time he gets to the Godkiller arc it was pretty clear that he was no longer weakened. He was only pretty clearly weakened through the first arc in the series where he was facing BT, Batman, and his father.

The fact that he had two eyes hindered his fighting skill so fair enough.

Actually Jason has some other fairly impressive feats, for example he was able to outskill and gain the upper hand against PF Cassandra:

Granted she was no where near as skill as she is now, but she had some solid feats at that point, like curbstomping PF Grayson while holding back. And Dick is pretty damn skilled himself, whilst weakened he can hold his own against PF Shiva, and has briefly matched and held the upper hand against Midnighter, a guy with pre cog and physicals that dwarf most street levelers. So I would say that this alone puts PF Red Hood not far out from Post Crisis Batman.

There's some context to that, Jason stated he read her reading him meaning he has to surprise himself with new moves/tactics. He wasn't strait up outskilling him, he just had a counter to her move reading.

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Landing blows and dodging/blocking blocking them definitely counts as skill, at least when facing off against a master. Hell just look at this MMA fight between Michael Chandler vs. Eddie Alvarez, these are some of the most skilled individuals in the world, masters of multiple different styles, and most of their fight consists of throwing, dodging and blocking blows. No fancy martial arts moves need to be employed, that's the difference between martial skill and martial arts. There are no fancy rules or maneuvers that need to be employed, alot of a real fight is just the skill, tactics, and body reading of exchanging blows/grappling, whereas in martial arts there are a lot of fancy moves involved, and it is far far less effective. Look at this fight between Xu Xiaodong (not an MMA champion but rather an MMA gym owner/teacher, who isn't nearly as impressive as professional MMA fighters, let alone MMA champions) and one of the top Tai Chi masters in all of China: It's a damn curbstomp, with simple blows, blocks, and dodges Xu ends the fight in 30 seconds. And just to prove that it's consistent he does the same to a triple black belt master of Wing Chun Kung Fu. So its clear that the skills that actually help you win a fight aren't fancy karate moves, but are rather good timing, effective body reading, comprehensive blocks, good dodges, and well placed blows, so I would say that Deathstroke and BT are certainly using skill here.

The problem is, Slade didn't have much blocks or dodges in that fight. Slade swiped BT with a knife, then kept punching him repeatedly. Obviously there's some skill in that, but mainly that shows Slade's tecnhique in striking power, rather than H2H skill. For H2H skill I want to see dodges, blocks, precise moves, etc. Also Slade wasn't weakened against Bronze Tiger. He wasn't weakend physically, only skill-wise as I'll elaborate later. And the only reason Slade was hindered skill-wise was due to having two eyes instead of the one eye he was used to. So he just closed one of his eyes:

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Hell even in DC one of the most skilled fighters, the guy who trained Black Canary and helped to train Batman, and who is definitely considered one of DCs top fighters, is Wildcat. And Wildcat is a boxer, which is pretty much the art of throwing and dodging a punch, yet he is still wildly regarded as one of the most skilled fighters in the DCU, and he's actually given Batman a hard time in the past.

He's regarded as one of the best boxers, not skilled fighters. And no, he hasn't given Bruce a hard time. I mean, it was a decent fightbut Batman ended up winning pretty handily (Batman/Wildcat #3).

Skill isn't indicated by what fancy moves you employ, its indicated by feats. How many people can you take on at once, how many other skilled individuals can you defeat, does your skill allow you to hold your own against people out of your league in terms of physicals? It's not defined by statements and it's definitely not defined by martial arts moves.

Can you point me to when I said skill is defined by statements and fancy moves?

A spar is still indicative of skill, and they seemed to be at least on par with each other, BT may have had a small edge

It is, but in a real fight you use more "lethal" and more brutal strikes, grapple, etc. Which is what we need to see, we can't use a spar to showcase how a normal fight would go.

Also saying "you're slower" doesn't mean speed was the main factor in the fight, it means that it was a factor, but it doesn't mean that it was the main one.

If Ben thought it was so important to note, then it definitely is. Again, speed is the most closely related stat to skill and the character mentioning it means it was writers intent that it's a very important factor. Ben being faster than before can be the main factor as to execute a move, you need to do it before your opponent reacts and/or counters it. Also if Ben thought skill was the main factor why didn't he mention it instead it?

In fact skill seemed to be the most significant factor in the fight since BT won by out grappling Batman and getting him in a hold, which requires skill, not speed.

Most skill feats are 50 percent speed, 50 percent skill. Also Bruce rarely ever does engage in grapple, so I don't think this holds up well if you're making a comparison between Bruce and Slade's fights against Bronze Tiger.

Who has pretty insane skill, while maybe not quite on the level of his Post Crisis counterpart he's pretty damn close,

Not really, he would get stomped by his Post Crisis counterpart in H2H.

first of all he was able to solo an army of armed soldiers, there seemed to be dozens or potentially hundreds of them, and he comes out unscathed

I counted them and there are like 110. And while it is a very impressive skill feat, It doesn't hold up well to Post Crisis Batman curbstomping Ra's Al Ghul, matching Lady Shiva, curbstomping Prometheus.

Here PF Batman take on an army of 50 Colony soldiers, and while he does get defeated ultimately only tree Colony soldiers remain standing, meaning that he took out 47 of them before going down. And what makes this so insanely impressive is the fact a single Colony soldier could curbstomp Azeral a highly skilled street leveler with super human physicals. Taking out a small army of highly skilled street levelers who have insane gear is comparable to all of Post Crisis Batman's feats

No it's not comparable at all. Post Crisis Batman matches characters like Lady Shiva who has beaten Conner Hawke who has curbstomped the Bamboo Monkey, even tho the Bamboo Monkey curbstomped Nightwing and Tim Drake. Same Nightwing that matched Deathstroke on several occasions. Heck Post Crisis Batman has curbstomped Prometheus, who has Batman's own skill and the skills of DC's other top 29 fighters. Also whilst they have insane gear I'd argue Prometheus has better gear. He had an energy shield that deflected a photon blast from Dr. Light (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6), can flood his body with endorphins (JLA #38), has bullets that are too fast for Supergirl and went right through her(Justice League: Cry for Justice #6), has blades that are launched too fast for Donna Troy and went right through her Amazonian Bracelets (the same as Wonder Woman's) (Justice League: Cry for Justice #6), this energy blade that cut off Arsenal's arm (Justice League: The Rise Of Arsenal #1), neural chaff disorganizes thoughts which means you can't think properly anymore (JLA #17). Prometheus would effortlessly murder-stomp the Colony. And the Colony aren't nearly as skilled as you make them out to be. They were getting stomped by the likes of Red Robin and Batwoman, heck even freaking Spoiler was evading them easily (Detective Comics #938)

Either Colony aren't that consistent, or they only stomped Azrael due to the fact it was a surprise attack. Lady Shiva (who Batman matched) has a better feat in effortlessly godstomping groups of the Monkey Clan (Nightwing Vol. 2 #23), a single one of them godstomped Nightwing and Tim Drake at the same time (referring to Bamboo Monkey) yet Shiva curbstomps groups of them easily.

But he has even better feats that this: Here future Tim Drake jumps and cheapshots an unprepared suitless, gearless Batman, yet after a long and brutal fight Bruce defeats Tim, forcing Drake to use a gun to win.What makes this so impressive is the fact that future Tim has curbstomped PF Nightwing, Red Hood, current Tim, and Damian all at the same time. And I've clearly displayed that Red Hood and Nightwing have insane skill on there own, but what about Damian and Red Robin? Well through a little bit of scaling it is clear that they're in the same highly skilled ballpark as Dick and Jason. Damian has defeated Jason in CQC, and Tim and Damian fought on par for multiple pages. So Future Time was able to curbstomp four highly highly skilled individuals at once, and yet when he jumps an unprepared and unarmored Batman he still gets out skilled and defeated. That's certainly comparable to defeating matching Post Crisis Shiva in a fight. So frankly I would say that PF Batman isn't far off from his Post Crisis counterpart in skill, and could give him a damn good fight using it, so to outskill him while heavily weakened and with dampened skill should indicate Deathstroke can keep up in the skill category.

Jason's feat has been debunked so your scaling for Tim and Damien is just wrong. As for Dick, he only matched her when she was using weapons. Weapons she is feat-less with. When she actually used kicks and the like, she was stomping Grayson. As for holding his own against Midnighter, that's just massive PIS. Midnighter has dodged a dozen machine gun bullets from Deadshot, drew blood from Etrigan, tanked being smashed into the ground by a Red Lantern, heck he has stomped Nightwing so I question the consistency of that feat, etc. He isn't street level, he is decent mid tier. But hey, Grayson was written by Tom King, the same guy who had Vision solo the Avengers, so what would you expect? So yeah, while this is a good feat for PF Batman, it's not as good as you claim. Really, I don't see PF Batman godstomping the Bamboo Monkey let alone beating Conner Hawke himself. Nor do I see him curbstomping Prometheus, who has the combined skill of Batman and the other top 29 fighters. Also the other Robins being in the same ballpark as Dick would be highly inconsistent, given how Dick curbstomped Mother who solo-stomped the Robins.

Already elaborated on why your definition of skill is faulty,

What definition..?

but DS did actually perform some skillful moves, even based on your standards, he uses a Judo flip at the start of the fight, then he uses a throat karate chop, a standard martial arts move, and he even masterfully defeats Batman at the end by using his cape against him, which is skill.

Again, using someone's cape against him isn't skill..more so tactics. Anyway, I've already shown enough feats to show that Post Crisis Batman would stomp PF Batman. Slade was getting humiliated by PF Batman so I'm not sure why you're using this as a skill feat. You might say Slade was gaining an upperhand in the end, but let's analyze the fight:

https://imgur.com/gallery/Z8wnqzE

  • Scan 1: Slade gets out his sword, Bruce quickly disarms him with a wrist slap. Then punches him, tagging him easily. Slade rolls with the next blow, letting Batman think he has the advantage - Advantage: Batman
  • Scan 2: Slade rolling with Bruce's blow works, allowing him to tag Batman. However this doesn't work as Deathstroke expected, as Bats rolls with Slade's blow and gets him into a sleeper hold. Note that Deathstroke states he has no specific move to retaliate, so he just punches Batman in an attempt to get out of the hold. Bruce repays in kind - Advantage: Batman
  • Scan 3: Deathstroke manages to hold Batman from the throat with his hand because Bats wasn't watching Slade's hand as Harley notes, but Batman gets out of that, hitting Slade twice. Slade punches Bruce, Bruce hits him back - Advantage: Batman, Slade only hit Bats twice and Batman wasn't watching (AKA he was being sloppy) Slade's hand. Meanwhile, Bruce got in 3 clean hits.
  • Scan 4: Deathstroke slams Batman with a piece of concrete, Batman uses mini explosives as a distraction. No skill thus far, just physicals and gear. Slade tags Bruce twice - Advantage: Deathstroke
  • Scan 5: Slade manages to hit Batman, but Bruce was distracted talking to Harley. Heck, Slade states "That's right. Leave your heart exposed.", so I wouldn't say that was skill. Just DS taking advantage of Batman being distracted. Next, Bruce casually blocks a sword strike from Slade with his gauntlets, punches him then Slade repays in kind with a blow Advantage: Batman
  • Scan 6: Batman slams Deathstroke on the ground with a kick, then punches him back. Slade states "I'm being outsmarted. Outfought. And outmatched." - Advantage: Batman, in a stomp
  • Scan 7-8: Due to the fact Batman's next move wasn't a killing blow, Slade manages to get in a hit. We don't know if Post Crisis Batman would even use the move Post Flashpoint Batman did, so I don't think that part of the fight is a factor for this fight. Next, Slade slams Bruce in a wall. Bad move, Batman just rolled with it to get in a hit in extreme close range, giving Deathstroke massive amounts of damage. Batman hits DS with the cape, Slade tactically (not skillfully) uses the cape against Bruce. Batman hits him back bullrush style - Advantage: Batman. The first part of the fight isn't a factor for this one and using the cape isn't H2H skill, just using whichever advantage one gets. For the rest of the scans, Bruce was beating him handily.

Overall: Batman was winning, quite handily at that. At best you can say Slade held his own, but holding your own against Post Flashpoint Batman is nothing when Post Crisis Batman is massively more skilled than Post Flashpoint Batman. Also using fights to determine a stat or skill is faulty logic. More on that in Batman's Durability Vs. Slade's striking power section.

Bruce uses plenty of obvious skill just like Slade, first of all he uses grip techniques to disarm Slade, then he puts like into a hold, then blocks a Katana strike, after than he uses a flying kick, a traditional Taekwondo move, and finally he uses his cape in strikes.

Hmm, fair enough.

Not to mention the fact that they both are fighting with millisecond level timing and precision, a skill precision feat that's above anything you've displayed for Post Crisis Batman yet.

Prometheus is millisecond+ lvl. Bruce curbstomped him.

Exterior to the KK feat (which is PIS unless Batman's skill can boost him to high tier level), Deathstroke is very close to Post Crisis Batman in skill, almost evenly matched in fact. Alongside Slade's superior speed and agility he will have no problem keeping up with Batman and going blow for blow with him.

I doubt it. I haven't seen anything to suggest Slade can godstomp Nightwing, let alone the Bamboo Monkey, let alone beat Conner Hawke, let alone match Shiva. Nor have I seen anything to suggest he can curbstomp freakin' Prometheus. Batman is massively, hugely more skilled, to the point H2H is pretty much a stomp for Bruce. I mean, Post Crisis Batman normally matches characters that defeat characters that stomp mid streets (Bamboo Monkey), and then he has enough skill to curbstomp a character with his own skill and the skill of 29 extremely skilled opponents. And till now I have seen zero counters to Batman having mastered every fighting style, thus meaning he knows the perfect counter to the vast majority of Slade's moves. Please elaborate on how ''ITS A STATEMENT!" is going to change the fact that Bruce knows the counter to virtually all of Slade's moves.

Batman's Durability Vs. Slade's Striking Power

Well I already displayed the writer saying that Slade was only at 25% of full power, so hitting a 200+ pound man at least 30 feet away, probably further since Bronze Tiger's flight was interrupted by a tree, with a casual smack at 25% power is definitely above punching though a person. And it probably exceeds a single ton of force.

He wasn't at 25 of full power...reread the scan again:

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So this Renton Davis guy asks how weakened was Deathstroke? Daniel states by 25 percent. Meaning, Slade was at 75 percent of full power. Moreover, Tony was only referring to fighting skills not physicals. In essence I-Ching (the doctor who worked on Slade) gave Slade a younger body. AFAIK he still had his body augmentations/enhanced abilities. It also wouldn't make sense for the younger body to lessen his physicals, since per basic biology younger bodies>older bodies. Unless we're talking about 10 year olds or something. Moreover, I-Ching did this as a favor so that Deathstroke would be indebted to him (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #1)

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It would make zero sense for I-Ching to lessen Slade's physical condition as a favor...only Slade's reaction time and skill were effected by having a younger body, per the Batman Vs. Deathstroke fight (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #5)

  • Scan 1: "Fighting like an amateur. Is this a side effect of whatever I-Ching did to me? No, it's this mask. Victor designed it with a dark tint on the right side. But I can still see out of it, and it's throwing me off. I suck with two eyes. I should know that by now."
  • Scan 2: "I'm slower. Weaker. It's taking me longer to process my thoughts."

So Slade's general fighting ability and reaction time were somewhat weakened but not overall physicals. Now you might say "But CIB, if his reaction time, a physical stat, decreased then shouldn't his other physicals decrease as well?" I think not, according to thisreaction time actually increases as you get older, so it makes sense for Slade to have worse reaction time in a younger body.

Slade kicks Legacy dozens of feet and then Legacy plows through roughly ten feet of solid concrete and makes a massive crater.

Impressive feat, but I don't see how that's comparable to 6 tons. And what makes you think the crater is so massive? Voters, does this look like a massive huge crater to you?

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Anyway, Bruce can tank this. As Bruce Wayne, he tanked a hit from Orca without much damage (Batman #579)

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And Orca can effortlessly toss a forklift with a simple smack:

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The average forklift weights around 9,000 pounds:

While the average automobile weighs around 3,000 pounds, the average forklift weighs around 9,000 pounds. Also, forklifts are heavier in the rear to counter the weight of items being carried in the forks.

Source. Converting that into this converter we get a 4 ton forklift. So Orca effortlessly smacked a 4 ton forklift. Obviously Orca's striking power is way above that given how she effortlessly did the above feat. Yet Batman still tanks her hit. Also Clayface has done something similar in significantly damaging and destroying a few feet of thick asphalt and concrete, creating a huge crater (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #15)

in reverse order

Just look at that crater:

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I don't know about you but that does look decently bigger than Slade's. And Bruce still tanked hits from Basil.

: Kicks a pressurized airplane hatch clean off of its hinges, and when fully pressurized it requires roughly four tons at minimum to open them.

Your link states 3 to 4 tons, so like 3.5 tons. Impressive feat, but I'd wager Orca to be stronger than that given she is an easy 4 tonner.

Here he kicks down a large reinforced metal door, but he's not just kicking it down, he's kicking clean through it and shattering the metal. This is a 5+ ton striking feat.

What are you talking about? He didn't kick through it, he just significantly bent the door. And what makes it a 5+ ton striking feat?

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Anyway, Clayface has ripped off, deformed/bent a metal door (Gotham City Sirens #20), casually threw a box truck while disguised as Cheetah (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #160), threw a series of multi ton rocks (Batman #689). Batman still took his hits, including electricity amped punches (Shadow Of The Bat #75)

Deathstroke with a single hit ragdolls a large dumpster and crushes the front of it. The dumpster was fairly large, and clearly more than a ton. To ragdoll it like this is at the very least comparable to Clayface's striking.

Let's make a size comparison between dumpsters. Slade's dumpster:

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Meanwhile, these are ten yard dumpsters:

They look a bit larger than Slade's dumpster. According to this 10 yard dumpsters have a weight allowance of 2-3 tons, so let's say 2.5 tons. Since these dumpsters look larger than the one Slade kicked, I'll say Slade's dumpster would be 1.5 tonner. But let's highball it to 2.5 tons, Slade doing it casually would mean he has twice the striking power of that, since at minimum you'd need twice the striking power of that dumpster to ragdoll it so casually. At best, this means Slade has 5 ton striking power. Meanwhile, Basil has 6 ton striking power and not even he could damage Batman. Let's post the fight again (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #15)

He applied his strength on Bruce (for reference Basil's mere weight has been enough to ragdoll multiple cars), and punched him twice. And this incredibly miniscule amount of blood is the best Clayface could do:

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Look at the next scan, does Batman look any damaged?

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Nope. He isn't damaged in the slightest. So yeah thus far Clayface's striking power is better than Slade's by a solid margin, and Batman still tanks hits from him so Slade's blows won't be much of a problem.

Kicks a car clean off of his body with no leverage while being crushed by it. According to this source the average car weighs 4079 pounds or roughly two tons. Ragdolling two tons and launching it multiple feet into the air with no leverage is just as impressive if not more so as tipping six tons with a punch. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #2)

Uhh no. Slade just punched and kicked his way out of the car, he didn't ragdoll the whole thing...all I see is some metal being significantly bent:

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So Slade didn't even ragdoll the whole thing. Even if he did, casually ragdolling 6 tons>>ragdolling 2 tons. Also I think it's important to note Basil's upper limit of striking is likely beyond 6 tons. He ragdolled that truck fairly casually, so his really serious hits should be beyond it. And his hits were definitely serious aka. beyond 6 tons in that fight I had posted. He was bloodlusted, as he thought Batman had done something to Poison Ivy. This enraged Basil as Ivy had used her phermones on him, so Clayface had loved her.

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If you want another durability feat, have Batman's beating at the hands of Lincoln March (Batman Vol. 2 #11)

  • Scan 1: Lincoln March bullrushes Batman through two 1 foot thick concrete walls, then throws him out of a building through a thick brick wall.
  • Scan 2-3: At blur speeds, he is smashed on the Crowne Tower, creating a massive crater on the glass.
  • Scan 4: Is thrown through a building at a big church bell
  • Scan 5: From high atop Gotham he crashes (he did use a high velocity bat-rope to lessen the impact, but still) through the glass (wall? Window?) of one of the Wayne Towers/Buildings (note that Wayne Enterprises has their windows/glass bulletproof (Batman Incorporated Vol. 1 #6)) and through a concrete wall.
  • Scan 6-7: Completely no sells an explosion (before you say it's an explosive durability feat, explosions carry concussive force)

He was damaged but he managed to withstand the beating. Deathstroke cannot deal out this lvl of damage consistently during the fight.

Deathstroke has equal if not superior striking power to Clayface, who can do significant damage to Batman with his hits. So I'm confidant thus far that Slade can in fact put Batman down.

Nope, Clayface has better striking power by a solid margin. And Basil dealt significant damage to Batman? Yeah sure:

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S I G N I F I C A N T D A M A G E, the guy is literally on the floor dying guys. Don't you see the huge amount of damages? Don't you guys see how Batman is struggling to walk, with broken up bones, tons of blood drawn and his suit being torn apart? Yeah. S I G N I F I C A N T D A M A G E

Context, context, context, and guess what? CONTEXT.

Scream LOUDER! LOUDER!

These are the feat of the real Lobo in the N52, the Lobo that Deathstroke fought was a clone/impostor (something I stated in my original post). This is confirmed in the first issue of the N52 Lobo series:

Wow okay didn't know that. Anyway that imposter still tanked a blunt force construct from Hal, I already posted that but here is a re-post (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #55).

One: A shot from a 30mm shell (roughly a foot long) does the same thing to a Humvee that Clayface did to the van, and a humvee weighs 10300 pounds, or 5.15 tons. And while this is slightly less heavy than the van that Clayface tipped, the round didn't hit it directly, put rather hit the ground near it, making this vastly more impressive that Clayface's feat.

Two-three: These high cal. shells team apart tanks, TANKS, I'm confident that Basil doesn't operate on this level consistently, yet Lobo still repeatedly no sold similar levels of force.

All of this goes to say that foot long high caliber shells>>Clayface in striking power, and Lobo no sells them effortlessly. Yet Slade still ragdolls Lobo with his punches, and draws blood, so I'm confident based on the feats that you and I have provided thus far that Slade>>>Clayface in striking power, yet Carlo consistently manages to hurt Batman, so what kind of damage with Deathstroke inflict then?

Jeez. No offense, but this is just Deathstroke wank. Let's take the M1 Abrams, one of the main tanks the US Army uses:

he M1 Abrams entered U.S. service in 1980, ultimately replacing the M60 tank.[15] The M1 is the main battle tank of the United States Army and Marine Corps, and is also used by the armies of Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Australia, and Iraq.

Source: Wikipedia. How much does this tank weight? From wikipedia again, we have the weights for the tank variations:

Specifications
WeightM1: 60 short tons (54 t)[5]
M1A1: 63 short tons (57 t)[5]
M1A2: 72 short tons (65 t)

Even if we take the M1, that's 60 tons. Those guns ripped the tanks to shreds. Meanwhile, Lobo no sold them. So Lobo can casually no sell 60 ton amounts of force, to hurt him you would have to strike massively harder than that. Slade drawing blood from him is just massive PIS, unless you think Slade can punch with 80-100 tons of striking force...Deathstroke's best feats is apparently a bit over 5 tons (the one with the metal door, tho I still need proof for that). But suddenly he has a 80-100 ton tank+ lvl feat? Yeah, I'm not buying that. Batman too has these outlier showings for striking power. He casually punched Dr. Death a 30+ feet distance through a massive thick metal door that is capable of tanking cruise missiles (Batgirl Vol. 1 #44)

Just look at some of these cruise missile explosions:

But I guess Batman punch>>>>these explosions. I guess Bruce has 50+ ton striking power. Has Deathstroke ever tanked such a punch?

First of all sending a 200+ pound man flying 30-40 feet and only stopping because he slammed into a tree is in the multi ton striking range, so based on what you've shown so far a blow like that should do some damage to Batman.

1) Based on what is that a multi ton striking feat? According to this converter 200 pounds equals 0.1 ton. I guess completely ragdolling 200 pounds for that distance should mean the feat is a bit above 0.1 tons, but its what, 0.5 tons? I'm just guessing, but I don't see how ragdolling 0.1 tons suddenly means you have multi ton striking part. 2) And no, Batman has took hits from Lady Shiva and The Heretic with pretty much no damage so he can tank Slade's hits without much damage if he's using blows of this lvl.

Anyway at this point I've shown Deathstroke striking hard enough to shatter door level amounts of steel/reinforced metal, rag doll a multi ton dumpster, kick two tons clean into the air with no leverage, and strike harder than shots that shred tanks. I think it's safe to say that Deathstroke can put some serious hurt on Batman based on what I've seen thus far, but I'll check out the feats you posted.

Excluding that outlier tank++ buster showing, Bruce can safely tank any hits from Slade, with at worst an incredibly small amount of blood. He has took several hits from Clayface (who can throw box trucks, ragdoll cars with his mere weight, effortlessly ragdoll a 6 ton truck, cause a huge crater), Lady Shiva (who has one-shotted Nightwing), The Heretic (also one-shotted Nightwing), etc.

So Batman is clearly>>Post and pre Flashpoint Nightwing in durability, and this is certainly impressive, though pre Flashpoint Grayson isn't particularly impressive in the durability department, hell he was two shotted by Pre Flashpoint Deathstroke when DS was only at 50% power.

Nightwing has more consistently tanked hits from Deathstroke, and even the Pre Flashpoint version has impressive durability feats:

  • Scan 1: Tanks a slam from Deathstroke. (Nightwing Vol. 2 #117)
  • Scan 4-2: A hit from Raptor that sends him flying a 20+ feet distance right through a thick metal bus doesn't damage Dick much. (Nightwing Vol. 2 #128)
  • Scan 3: A hit from Deathstroke that bends a metal railing doesn't damage Nightwing whatsoever at all. (Nightwing Vol. 2 #80)
  • Withstands multiple hits from Deathstroke. (The Titans Vol. 2 #29)
  • Takes two blows from Cassandra Cain. I know you're a Cassandra Cain expert, but to the voters Cassie has striking feats like busting stone walls, metal pipes, concrete walls, swords, kicking off robot heads, and etc. (Batman and the Outsiders Vol. 2 #14)

I don't think PF Slade can casually one-shot him. And to present feats for PF Nightwing:

  • Scan 1: Takes a hit from a house sized ice monster with no damage. (Nightwing Vol. 4 #29)
  • Scan 2-3: Tanks several hits from Orca, who I've shown ragdolling a 4 ton forklift. (Nightwing Vol. 4 #12)
  • Withstands 3 consecutive, massive explosions. (Nightwing Vol. 3 #16)

Slade isn't one-shotting the PF version either. Which I assume you agree to, given how you gave me the fight between Slade and Bruce as evidence that Deathstroke can overwhelm Batman with his blows, instead of saying that Slade's striking feats are enough to one-shot PF Grayson and giving me the fight as a cherry on top.

And Pre Flashpoint Deathstroke's highest end for striking power is one shotting a thick metal door, and Post Flashpoint Slade can do the same more casually and whilst doing heavier damage to the door.

No, his striking power has even better feats than that. Like, hurting and drawing blood from Ebrax (Deathstroke: The Terminator #52). Ebrax has proven himself capable of no selling gunfire (16 bullets, to be exact), taking hits from and hurting Hawkman (someone capable of catching cars and throwing them casually) and taking a jetpack explosion quite well.

Though tanking hits that can one shot Post Flashpoint Grayson is very impressive. However there is irrefutable proof that Deathstroke can in fact overwhelm Post Flashpoint Batman with repeated blows:

I count that Deathstroke landed 13 blows here (four on the first page, two on the second, three on the third, two on the fourth, and one on the fifth) and Batman was at Slade's mercy ready to be "finished", then Harley distracts Deathstroke and the fight briefly continues only to have Slade emerge on top again. What makes this so impressive is the fact that Slade was only at 25% here, whereas in this CaV he's at 100%. So it would take roughly four blows leave Batman at Slade's mercy in this fight

1) His striking power was NOT weakened. 2) 13 blows is a good beating. I don't think Slade will be able to land that many hits in the first place, due to Batman's superior speed and skill. 3) This is Pre-Dionesium Bruce. Post-Dionesium Batman was capable of feats like godstomping Solomon Grundy with one hand (Batman Vol. 3 #2). Meaning Post-Dionesium Batman's physicals>>Pre-Dionesium, as Pre-Dionesium needed a good beating to take out Grundy.

4) Going by fights is faulty. Generally, we should assess the characters' feats then see if them matching, tanking hits from or out-skilling the other character is really consistent for them. I mean, if we go by fights, Post-Dionesium Batman godstomped Deathstroke and Deadshot at the same time (Batman Vol. 3 #28)

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You might say, "But CIB, they were fighting each other for days! They were obviously weakened when Bruce stomped them!" Nope. First of all, they never hit/tagged each other. According to Batman, this is what happened on the five days they fought (Batman Vol. 3 #28)

  • First Day: They sniped each other across buildings.
  • Second Day: They sprayed M-16s (guns) into a crowd.
  • Third Day: Deadshot bombed a building.
  • Fourth Day: They went back to guns.
  • Fifth Day: Batman finally caught up to them, and proceeded to stomp them.

Honestly, if you look at the scan where Bruce stomped them, neither looked damaged in the slightest. So, the only argument you have is that both were weakened due to a lack of food, water, etc. And that they were fighting. I disagree, Slade has excellent feats of endurance which you posted yourself, meanwhile Deadshot has this feat of endurance. I don't think I can explain it better than @fetts did, so I'll just copy-paste it. All credit to Fetts of course. In short, Fetts had a CaV with the @the_hajduck. Deadshot was supposed to survive the Resident Evil "Raccoon City", he also had to stay up 3 days without rest. So, Fetts posted an excellent feat of endurance for Floyd. Here it is, a recap version since the full version is too long:

Recap

  1. Survived an explosion point blank range strong enough to knockout King Shark, which happened almost immediately after weeks of "physical and mental hell".
  2. Resists being gruesomely tortured for approximately twelve hours straight, most of which he didn't scream through. He is also hit severely with the butt of a pistol.
  3. In the morning, he and the Squad are ejected out of the plane to exterminate sixty thousand zombies and retrieve the cure. The team lands smack dab in the middle where they are met by thousands of zombies surrounding them. Deadshot is infected in this process, but only because blood is splattered on him.
  4. In the encounter with the progenitor, a sizable blob of a monster with tentacles strong enough to restrain King Shark, smacks Deadshot away.
  5. After escaping and having an encounter with Mad Dog, the Squad is met by Captain Boomerang and Waller's goons to reset their nanite bombs for another thirty-six hours.
  6. The Suicide Squad are sent to infiltrate the Basilik compound to retrieve a doctor, met by Grey Lora who kicks Deadshot in the stomach (of which he allows on purpose to sell out Captain Boomerang).
  7. In a manner of eighteen minutes, Floyd, with some help of El Diablo, fights off human and metahuman inmates, runs our of ammo, barrels through a prison yard full of similar inmates, climbs up an entire four-story guard tower, experiences uncontrollable muscle shaking due to the Rot Virus, and is thrown off of said four-story guard tower. Finally, he passes out.
  8. Throughout the entirety of this story, Deadshot is standing tall and strong with no signs of fatigue or physical weakness up until the very end of this sixty-hour period.

Overall, Floyd spent more time awake in the Deadshot Vs. Deathstroke conflict. However, here he was taking huge beatings and severe injuries. It evens out. I don't think he would be that weakened Vs. Batman. BTW, that whole event happened in Suicide Squad Vol. 4 #1-5,

So, Post-Dionesium, Batman curbstomped Floyd and Slade at the same time. Do I really think he can do this? That this is consistent for him? Hell no. But if you really want to go by fights, know that Post-Dionesium Batman completely curbstomp. He utterly blitzes him, takes his hits with zero damage, and takes him down with 4 blows. I mean, I do think Batman can stomp Slade in H2H but only because of the huge skill advantage. Nothing more, nothing less.

Into a building not through it. We very clearly see in a couple of pages that Batman was actually just bullrushed in the side of the huge screen on the building he didn't go through it, as there isn't a hole in the screen, just a large dent, which indicates that he was bullrushed into the side of the building and then fell:

I mean sure. It's still highly impressive that Batman tanked a high speed bullrush that damaged highly reinforced glass, as well as this explosion:

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All that while in an out of armor and weakened state. To elaborate on him being weakened, first off he crashed with the Batplane, causing an explosion in which he was engulfed in (Batman Eternal #47)

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In the next issue we get a clearer view of his injuries. He was massively bruised/cut up in the shoulders, arm, chest and both legs with lots of blood drawn.

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Next he survives crashing into Bane's huge bulletproof thick metal mecha (Batman Eternal #49-50). Finally we have Cluemaster beating the snot out of him, then carving up his chest and face (even right under the eyes) with his knife to the point a significant amount of blood is coming out (Batman Eternal #51)

I've shown Deadthstroke dishing out way way way more power than that, so the feat isn't super useful here.

Excluding the Lobo feat, no you didn't. It was a high speed bullrush to highly reinforced glass, as well as an explosion, and a 50 foot fall. All while Batman was out of armor and massively weakened. At full power and in armor Bruce should be way more durable, and being way more durable than that means he can take Slade's hits. Although I can concede that this feat doesn't prove that he can take Deathstroke's hits without much damage.

Also this is Post Flashpoint Batman, who I've shown a heavily weakened Deathstroke putting some serious hurt on.

Addressed.

Pain Tolerance/Endurance

He was hardly fighting Ra's just fine, he struggled to stand

Struggled to stand?

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He looks in pain, but I don't see significantly struggling.

, he hardly fought on, we even seeing him visibly shaking while pushing Ra's into the pit. He clearly couldn't maintain that fight, he was struggling to stand after only a couple of panels.

I don't see him shaking, I see him overpowering while in a highly weakened state:

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Ra's is no slouch in strength. He has effortlessly restrained Nightwing (Robin Vol. 4 #33). Same Nightwing who has held up an Orca's mouth from biting him (Detective Comics #878)

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Now, according to this an Orca's bite force is at least 19,000 PSI:

The saltwater crocodile may have the strongest bite ever measured, but that might be because it’s been impossible to measure the killer whale’s bite force with accuracy. Based on captive orca incidents it’s estimated that their bite power could exceed 19,000 PSI.

According to this PSI to ton converter, this is a 9.5 ton feat. Now am I saying Nightwing can casually lift 9.5 tons? No, he struggled a bit here. However, he's still plenty strong at least five tonner. This makes Ra's a 10 tonner, twice 5 tons is neededd to effortlessly restrain a 5 tonner. Being fair tho, Ra's looked like he was using some sort of technique. Even assuming the technique took care of half of Grayson's strength, this makes Ra's a 5 tonner. So Batman managed to easily overpower Ra's despite that injury is plenty impressive.

Yes the shovel did more damage to Batman but Deathstroke effectively no sold this and kept on fighting throughout the issue without any trouble, whereas Batman was struggling to stand after a couple of panel, so I would still say that Deathstroke's feat is more impressive.

Again, he wasn't struggling to stand. To make Batman's feat even more impressive, he was poisoned by toxic waste earlier on (Batman: Birth Of The Demon)

In the same comic, Alfred noted how the toxic waste effected Bruce. Plus, Batman was lit on fire during his fight with Ra's.

So Batman's Advantages:

  1. Was poisoned by toxic waste, significantly weakening him
  2. Lit On Fire
  3. Then he has a shovel get stuck through his gut, ultimately giving him much more damage than Slade got
  4. In the end, he still fights Ra's fine and even overpowers him despite being highly weakened

Slade's advantages:

  1. Fought through having a blade stuck through his gut

Honestly, the only argument you can make for Slade's feat to be better is "But Slade fought for a longer time!" which doesn't really matter. I was showing how much Batman's body can take and still be capable of fighting/functioning. If you want a pain tolerance feat, Batman was tortured by Dessad for years, experiencing the combined physical and emotional pain of his victims (aka Las Vegas) without giving up, then proceeding to beat Desaad in a battle of wits (JLA #13)

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This is a fine feat, but as you said it's inferior to Slade's feats, and that was only the tip of the iceberg for his endurance feats, remember the link I showed you in my first post?

That's actually why I thought Deathstroke had better endurance.

I'll repost it here First off he gets hit with five powerful tasers from Lex Corp, and high grade tasers can pack up to 50,000 volts each,goes on to get his arm sliced up by a laser blade of some sort, gets hit repeatedly in the face by a huge mech and ragdolled, gets hit by the explosion of an energy blast, falls dozens of feet and gets crushed under multiple tons of rocks, gets picked up by a Bizarro clone and gets thrown across a room and through a thick lead lined wall, gets hit repeatedly by these multi tonner clones, ends up getting hit way up into the air and is launched across the room, uses himself as a conductor for a huge electrical current, and finally to top in all off gets shot through the shoulder but get this after this all that damage he still gets his arm slashed by Red Hood, then a blow from Jason, three bullets to his shoulders and his hip, a stab through the back with a sword, gets both his wrists slit, a shot to the shoulder, a massive slash though the collarbone, and then getting impaled directly through the chest, and yet after all of this punishment over these 6 issues he can still walk around without passing out. This is just way above Batman's endurance.

Hmm, let me present a somewhat comparable feat to this. First off Batman is caught in an absolutely massive explosion, falls from a 10 story building and is then buried by 5+ massive multi ton (likely 4 to 10+ tons based on the fact that A normal weight concrete weights 2400 kg (or 1.2 tons) per cubic meter) pieces of concrete (Batman Vol. 2 #4). This seemingly breaks many of his ribs and injuries his left arm.

Next, William Cobb (a Talon, works for the Court Of Owls. The Court Of Owls are basically the Illuminati of Gotham) smashes through a 1-2 foot thick concrete wall then Batman falls a 20-30 foot height and/or distance into the Court Of Owls' labyrinth (same issue).

Then he is left starved and dehydrated in the labyrinth for 8 days (Batman Vol. 2 #5)

Furthermore, the Court Of Owls psychologically torture him for this 8 day period (same issue). Next, the Court sends some Owls shredding some of the Batsuit (important since this lessens durability, and later on he takes a beating) and William Cobb comes in and sticks a blade right through Batman (same issue). It looks like the blade went through Bruce's freaking liver.

Now we have the Batman Vs. William Cobb fight, part 1 (yes, I know I already elaborated on this but I wanna illustrate it further) (Batman Vol. 2 #6). After Bruce got that blade stuck through him, he is on his knees bleeding. Then Cobb hits Batman in the face with a tripod drawing a good amount of blood, proceeds to grab him and throw him at a thick marble wall significantly cracking it, then Cobb continues to pummel Bruce with a barrage of marble wall cracking hits and eventually Talon kicks him through it. Note what Batman is saying "No...No strength left. Blood f-filling the wrong....all the wrong places. Whole body...every bone...saying let go. "

Finally, Batman gathers some willpower and fights Cobb, part 2 of the fight (Batman Vol. 2 #6)

  • Scan 1-3: Batman gathers his willpower
  • Scan 4: Blitzes the Talon William Cobb, effortlessly blocking his punch and casually drawing blood
  • Scan 5: Breaks Cobb's hand
  • Scan 6: Effortlessly dodges a hit from Cobb, then slams him through a 2 foot thick marble wall
  • Scan 7-9: Takes several hits from and beats the shit out of William Cobb, destroying marble structures and again punches him through a marble wall

1) For proof that those were marble walls and all, here is Batman stating the Labyrinth is made out of construction marble (same issue)

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2) I believe I showed durability feats for William, which makes this endurance feat all the more impressive. I didn't show striking feats tho. Even random Talons were significantly denting a reinforced metal door (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #9)

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So Bruce took many hits from William while in a massively weakened, and kept fighting through it despite being massively weakened.

3) For reference, marble density is 2.71 tonnes per cubic meter.

But I'm not finished yet, the endurance feat continues. He takes a medium-sized explosion, then drops into a lake finally getting KOed (Batman Vol. 2 #6). Note in the final scan that one of the leaders of the Court Of Owls states that they won't heal William Cobb after that beating, due to the immense psychological Bruce gave him...it's actually amazing that Batman managed to KO him, given how Cobb has healed an escrima stick through his brain in seconds....

Now, in the next issue (specifically Batman Vol. 2 #7) Batman rests for a few hours but then he continues fighting in Batman Vol. 2 #8. I really don't think a few hours of rest will heal all his injuries. So in this issue he quickly curbstomps a Talon:

Talons have significantly dent reinforced metal doors, withstood one of Black Canary's scream (Canary was specifically using one good enough to shatter a skull), stomped a dozen military men, etc. He curbstomps and evades a few other Talons in the same issue:

In Batman Vol. 2 #9, he is in good enough shape to go out and investigate, etc. So yeah, I think Bruce has comparable endurance. To recap, he was caught in a massive explosion, fell from a 10 story building, was buried under 6+ tons of concrete, had many of his ribs broken and his left arm injured, gets smashed through 1-2 foot thick concrete wall and falls a 20-30 foot height, is starved and dehydrated for 8 days, then psychologically tortured for that same period, has some of his Batsuit ripped to shreds, next William Cobb comes in and sticks a blade through his liver, Cobb beats the crap out of him with several reinforced metal door denting and marble wall busting hits, then Batman is in good enough shape to beat the crap out of Cobb and take several more hits, furthermore he takes a medium sized explosion, finally he's KOed but later in he curbstomps several Talons. So Batman has comparable endurance to Slade, but better pain tolerance due to the Dessad feat. You might say the Dessad feat is off panel, but Bruce gave us all the context we need.

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Final Counters - Part 2

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Batman's Striking Power Vs. Deathstroke's Durability

It definitely was more than twelve blows, in the first panel 7 blows,

How in the hell does he use 7 blows in the first panel?

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I only see 4 afterimages/punches, all numbered. Now in the left you can see some other afterimages, but from what I'm seeing that's Wally still going to punch that 4th blow. The afterimages just show his movement. Now in the third panel, Wally punched him 6 times, this is something I'm sure we both agree on. That's only 10 blows.

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and your also disregarding the third panel in which Kid Flash continues to pummel Slade and the sound affect is bbrrruututututu which indicates many more punches, more than a dozen were thrown certainly.

Yeah, I'm not sure how to quantify how many punches that sound indicates. It might be indicating something else for all I know (EX: The sound coming from Wally's punches) so idk. Too vague.

And I would imagine that they would exceed Batman in striking power yes. Lets assume that his punches were going mach 2 (roughly bullet speed (2250.66 fps))

1) I actually need proof Wally was punching at supersonic speeds. 2) What average bullet speed are you using? For what reason are you using that specific bullet speed? Because handgun bullets are mach 1.7 at the high end, so I need some more concrete elaboration here.

which is literally an insane insane insane lowball since the guy can keep up with Post Flashpoint Barry who is effortlessly massively hypersonic and can more at FTL+ speeds)

I swear, if you say Slade can tank lightspeed punches......

the average human male fist weighs weighs 1.25 pounds (8750 grains) according to Yahoo.com.

Except Wally is a young teenager, not your average adult exactly. He's what, 14?

So if he use that same ballistic calculator we get that each of Wally's punches would pack:

At point blank range (what Deathstroke is getting) it pack a punch of 98364 foot pounds (14.99 tons of force)

You used a ballistic calculator....don't you see the problem with that? It's designed for bullets. Let's look at your scan, except I under-lined the parts I have issue with.

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1) The bullet width: In this case, the "bullet" is Wally's punch. How in the hell did you get that 8750 number? The average hand width is way lower than that:

The average hand width on an adult male and female is around 3.1 - 3.3 inches.

Source. Ergo, Wally''s hand width being 8750 is absolutely absurd.

2)the Ball Coef: AKA, the coefficient of restitution. Which is the ratio of the final to initial relative velocity between two objects after they collide. So, what's the Ball Coef. of Wally's punches? Because the calculator starts up with that .172 figure, so I'm pretty sure you didn't put it yourself. Even if you did, proof that you're right about that?

3) Mx Range: The max bullet range. What's that for Wallly?

4) Temperature: What is the temperature behind Wally's fist? Again, that calculator (here's the link for voters) starts out with that 65 number. Ergo, it's not the temp behind Wally's fist. It's just the temp the calculator starts with.

5) Wind Mph: So what's the wind speed in this case?

6) Wind Direction: So what's the wind direction in this case?

7) Foot-pound energy: I notice you took the foot pound energy at its highest end, rather than taking it from between the low and high ends. The between would be the most fair estimation, logically. So its 75023 foot pounds of energy. Taking that into a conversion tool:

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The reason for such a low amount of tons is coming soon in 9)

8) Your conversion is wrong, I put it into the same conversion tool I linked in 7), and it is NOT 15 tons:

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9) That calc literally makes negative sense. You take a number in foot pounds (which is a unit of energy) and then convert that into tons - a unit of mass???? WTF? That's if you somehow managed to find a converter that coverts a unit of energy to a unit of mass...if you noticed "explosives" are written in brackets beside tons. That's why the numbers are f*cked. The calculators convert foot-pounds to the number of tons of TNT it would take to generate that much energy. The number of tons of TNT it takes to produce that much energy is in no way a measure of the striking force of the hit.

Don't you see the problem? No offense, but this calc is a bunch of BS. Even if the calc is correct, Slade did not tank that. TBH I dunno why I accepted the feat in the first place. Anyway, if we look at the next page Slade has a posture that indicates he's not exactly okay. Sitting on the ground like that, with that facial expression doesn't indicate that he he tanked Wally's blitz.

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Really, look at his face:

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Moreover, tanking 15 ton punches is not consistent for Slade. Being bullrushed through a stone wall made him scream out in pain (Deathstroke Vol. 2 #5)

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Not trying to lowball or anything, Slade can take stone wall busting hits without much damage. But it did cause him pain. So him tanking 15 ton punches is BS.

Ehh my one qualm with this feat is the fact that Green Arrow was cheapshotted, and when someone doesn't know that they're about to be hit they have no time to brace or prepare, so the feat isn't quite as impressive as it seems.

You need to reread the scans then. Ollie was readying to fight the JLA/blow out the window. I'm pretty sure he would be braced.

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Ollie tanked Slade's punches when he was prepared for them and in open combat, a very different setting then the one where Batman one shotted him.

Read the scan again, Ollie was readying to blow out the freaking JLA's windows out. Bear in mind this is the same Deathstroke who one-shotted a thick metal door, and casually drew blood from Ebrax. The same Ebrax who has:

  • Scan 1: Completely no sells 14 bullets from police. (Deathstroke: The Terminator #52)
  • Scan 2: Takes several hits from Hawkman. Being fair, Hawkman drew more blood that Slade did but only by a small amount. And Hawkman strikes very hard. He has smashed cars, casually caught, lifted and threw cars, broke down decent sized marble pillars, etc. (Deathstroke: The Terminator #52)'

Generally, police use glock pistols. Mostly the Glock 22, according to the source I just linked:

The Glock 22, which is carried by 60-70% of American police officers according to some estimates,

The Glock 23 (yes, that's not the Glock 22 but according to this the Glock 23 doesn't have more force behind its bullets .The only real differences are the handguns’ length and height, the stock magazine capacity, the weight, the barrel length and the length of the sight radius.) bullets went right through 9 sheet metal plates, treating metal like tissue paper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6SAhnfQr7M

From 2:10. It's important to note sheet metal is commonly made out of steel. And Ebrax completely no sold 14 metal fodderising bullets.

But if you want a more quantifiable striking feat for Slade -- have Deathstroke effortlessly one-shot shoved a pressurized thick metal plane door (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #42)

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You already explained how this would take 4 tons of force, and Slade did it very casually - to do it so casually would mean his striking is at least 6 tons when he's trying. Yet Ollie had took several bloodlusted/enraged blows from him (Identity Crisis #3)

If you think this is inconsistent for Ollie, he actually has a few other impressive feats of durability which I can show if needed. So yeah, this is a 5-6+ ton striking feat for Batman.

As for Deadshot Uzi fire is pretty pathetic frankly. I've shown Slade tanking dozens of 15 ton (probably way more than 15 tons since Kid Flash was bloodlusted) blows so honestly I don't think that tanking Uzi fire is even mildly comparable.

The 15 ton feat has been addressed.....also no Kid Flash wasn't bloodlusted. He was just enraged. If he wanted to kill Slade, he would have done something like say, try snap his neck, punch him in the throat to choke him out, etc.

As for tanking explosion I've shown Slade tanking a building level explosion whilst at 25% and after enduring a brutal beating from the dark knight.

Deadshot has took a house explosion, and was later seen unharmed (Deadshot Vol. 2 #5)

To be fair, Slade tanked a bigger explosion. But it doesn't really matter. You're only engulfed by a small portion of the explosion, it's not like an explosion is directed at you in a concentrated blast. And since the explosion was an AOE, he was engulfed by the same portion as Slade. Because they are only engulfed by the portion that hits their body. Although, Slade's explosive durability is somewhat inconsistent given how rocket explosions significantly damaged Deathstroke, to the point they blew off portions of his body (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #1). Just something worse noting.

Even a massively weakened Deathstroke>>>>Deadshot.

1) Slade's durability wasn't weakened. 2) I was never trying to say Deadshot is more durable or on par with Slade's durability. Just pretty durable himself, so one-shotting him is a great feat.

Neither of these feats are impressive,

Except they are.

but I'll happily display some more for Slade:

And I'll do the same for Batman.

Deathstroke tanks being slammed by a large concrete wall by Legacy, a mid tier, with zero damage.

What makes you think it's a concrete wall? Looking at the broken up structures, it looks more like stone.

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Concrete generally looks way smoother and softer. Here are some scans of how artists draw concrete walls in comics:

Anyway, Batman's striking power easily exceeds stone wall busting. He has several metal busting/breaking feats:

  • Scan 1: Bruce was starved and dehydrated for days, poisoned, beaten the shit out of, then forced to dig himself out of a shallow grave. To elaborate on the grave thing, he was locked up in a straitjacket and benchpressed a pine coffin lid through 600 pounds of loose soil that's filling his mouth, crushing his lungs flat, and shredding his dehydrated muscles. So he's massively weakened. Yet in this state, he kicks off a reinforced helicopter metal door while underwater. (Batman #701)
  • Scan 2: With a blow ragdolls Bane (who weights 350 lbs), unhinging a reinforced thick metal door. (Batman: Bane)
  • Scan 3: Punches off a Robot's head with a fairly casual strike. (Batman and Robin Eternal #21)
  • Scan 4: Breaks Prometheus' metal helmet down to bits. (JLA #38)
  • Scan 5: Shatters a metal animatronic to bits with a punch. (Batman #524)
  • Scan 6: Hits Two-Face hard enough to the point he brings down two metal doors, denting them and breaking their hinges. (Batman #654)
  • Scan 1: Kicks a motorcycle in half, ragdolling it. (Nightwing Vol. 3 #30)
  • Scan 2: Shatters a large metal sword with a single kick. (Batman Incorporated Vol. 2 #9)
  • Scan 3: Punches through metal floor, treating metal like tissue paper. (Batman: City Of Light #8)
  • Scan 4: Tears through a car. (Detective Comics #719)

Yes, I know that's a lot but I just want to prove Bruce is capable of treating metals like complete tissue paper. Now for stone/rocks. Here are the densest rocks on Earth:

RockDensity
Andesite2.5 - 2.8
Basalt2.8 - 3.0
Coal1.1 - 1.4
Diabase2.6 - 3.0
Diorite2.8 - 3.0
Dolomite2.8 - 2.9
Gabbro2.7 - 3.3
Gneiss2.6 - 2.9
Granite2.6 - 2.7
Gypsum2.3 - 2.8
Limestone2.3 - 2.7
Marble2.4 - 2.7
Mica schist2.5 - 2.9
Peridotite3.1 - 3.4
Quartzite2.6 - 2.8
Rhyolite2.4 - 2.6
Rock salt2.5 - 2.6
Sandstone2.2 - 2.8
Shale2.4 - 2.8
Slate2.7 - 2.8

Source. As you can see, Gabbro is the densest here with a density of 3.3 g/cm3. Now let's look at steel, an extremely common metal alloy. The vast majority of the metals Batman busted are likely made of steel (or even tougher metal alloys), as steel is a really common and used metal. Getting to the point:

The acknowledged density of mild steel is 7.85 g/cm3 (0.284 lbs/in3). Depending on the alloy elements added to manufactured specifications this can vary between 7.75 and 8.05 g/cm3 (0.280 and 0.291 lbs/in3).

So steel has a density of between 7.75 and 8.05 g/cm3. That's almost 5 times as dense as Gabbro. So clearly steel is way more durable than even one of the most durable stones. Ergo, stone wall busting is nothing to Batman. He has treated steel like tissue paper, on a consistent basis. So he hits massively harder than stone wall busting, meaning this feat isn't much relevant. Even if we say the wall is made out of concrete, it is measured at best as 2400 kg/m3 in these tests. Converting that into this kg/m3 to g/cm3 converter, that is 2.4 g/cm3. So steel busting is still>>>concrete busting. Also Killer Croc has tanked bullrushing through a huge, massively thick stone wall with zero damage (Batman/Superman Annual #2)

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And I've shown Bruce one-shotting him. Show more impressive feats than stone wall busting, or Batman will one-shot Deathstroke.

I'm fairly confidant that Batman doesn't have the same level of strength as Legacy and its pretty consistent for Slade to tank being hit through walls by mid tiers:

Legacy has lifted a freaking submarine. Do you seriously think Slade is more durable than a submarine or comparably? I hope not. If you're saying it's a good feat for Slade to tank a quantifiably stone busting bullrush, okay. But Batman hits way harder than that.

Deathstroke effectively no sells a hit from Tanya that sends him flying through a wall and into a large steel beam, heavily denting it. Yet seconds later he's running around without any damage, hell he doesn't even make an exclamation of pain.

1) He doesn't no sell it. It sent him flying. 2) That was a brick wall, and that hit only dent the steel beam. Batman has outright punched off robot heads, unhinged reinforced thick metal door while ragdolling the 350 lbs Bane, broke metal helmets to bits and treated metal like tissue paper. So yeah, his striking power exceeds this. 3) But lemme give you other extremely impressive feats. What about significantly damaging Post Flashpoint Deadshot, drawing good amount of blood from him (Suicide Squad Vol. 5 #43)

And PF Deadshot is way more durable than his Post Crisis version. He took hits from PF Deathstroke without much damage (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #11)

You might say Slade stated that he doesn't want to beat up Floyd. But he did say "if he had anything to do with the disappearence of my daughter...he's a dead man.", So yeah Bruce strikes harder than PF Deathstroke. Which means all your 3-5+ ton striking feats? Batman scales to that, excluding the feats where Slade is amped by the Nth Metal suit (as Nth Metal amps stats (Deathstroke Vol. 2 #14).). Even better, Batman drew blood from and put down Hawkman (JLA #119)

Hawkman is no slouch, he shrugged off a huge explosion (Hawkman Vol. 4 #28)

So he tanked that amount of concussive force, but Batman still drops him.

Really? Because based on what you've displayed thus far I honestly doubt it.

Yes really. 100 percent sure.

But he's not just tanking concrete busting he's tanking the destruction of a massive wall that looked to be about a foot thick, so unless Bane can punch through huge and very thick wall concrete wall its not the same.

Killer Croc tanked the same with zero damage. Heck he bullrushed himself through it.

I already covered this.

Yeah no, the fake Lobo has other appearances.

  • Scan 1: Tackles Eclipso Superman. (Justice League Vs. Suicide Squad #5)
  • Scan 2: Effortlessly stops a house sized (maybe more) giant's foot stomp with one hand. (Suicide Squad Vol. 5 #9)
  • Scan 3: Smashes Sinestro's construct in his face. (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #55)

As you can clearly see Deathstroke dodges an attack form Deadborn's spear, but he still get lifted off his feet and sent flying back dozens of feet, then we see a massive crater in the ground right were Deadborn had landed his spear, and we see cars being pushed backwards. So its pretty clear that there was a shockwave capable of ragdolling SUVs and making a huge crater in the asphalt. A pretty insane durability feat.

So what makes you think the first shockwave was as powerful as the second one? The first one only sent Slade flying a small distance, the next one somehow happened when Deadborn was running (so he wasn't doing anything to cause the shockwave but it happened anyway. IDK), causing a huge crater and ragdolling several cars:

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Anyway, assuming Slade did get hit by the second shockwave. According to this the average SUV weights in at 4,799 pounds:

How much does the average SUV weigh?

The average SUV weighs 40% more than the average car. The average SUV weighs in at 4,799 pounds.

AKA 2.4 tons. So since the shockwave ragdolled two SUVs, I guess Slade can casually tank 4.8 tons of force. As for the asphalt crater, it's impressive but how durable is asphalt? The SUV thing is cool, but I've shown Batman striking harder than that with the Green Arrow, Deadshot and Hawkman feats. If you want another feat to prove Batman strikes harder than that, have his feat against Post Crisis Deathstroke (Deathstroke: The Terminator #7)

Posted the whole fight. I count Bruce hitting D-Stroke 6 times:

  • Scan 1: Falls down on Deathstroke, double kicking him
  • Scan 2: Doesn't hit Slade once.
  • Scan 3: Slams him down to a gargoyle.
  • Scan 4: Kicks Slade, then punches him in the face, and elbows his head.
  • Scan 5: Doesn't hit Slade once.
  • Scan 6: Slade thinks he finally beat down Batman, but Bruce still isn't finished. He comes in and gives him another blow.

So a total of 6 hits. Note in the final scan Slade looked like he was significantly injured, given how he was clutching his arm as though Batman broke it:

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In the next issue (Deathstroke: The Terminator #8), Slade states that he would feel the pain of Batman's blows long after he heals the injuries Bruce gave him..

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Heck, Batman's blows were powerful enough to the point a guy who kicks dead horses over for a living (like he says in the first scan. LOL) managed to give Deathstroke a good fight, even beating him (Deathstroke: The Terminator #8).

All this with six blows. I repeat: With only six blows, Batman managed to break Slade's arm, have him feel the pain of his blows "long after the flesh mends" and massively weaken him to the point Deathstroke got beaten by an incredibly low street tier. To illustrate on PC Deathstroke's durability:

  • Scan 1: Completely no sells falling a huge distance. (DC Universe: Last Will And Testament)
  • Scan 2-3: Geo-Force slams Slade with a car. Result? Deathstroke shrugs it off. (Outsiders Vol. 4 #19)
  • Scan 4: No sells a kick from Black Canary. Dinah has shattered/busted/broke metal with an elbow. (Birds Of Prey Vol. 1 #90)
  • Scan 5: Effortlessly no sells a barrage of chopper gunfire. Here is an example of chopper/helicopter gunfire. That's easily several tons of force, and Slade no sold it. (Faces Of Evil: Deathstroke)
  • Scan 1: Falls a massive distance from high atop, crushing a small portion of a car. Slade no sold this. (Deathstroke: The Terminator #12)
  • Scan 2-3: Shrugs off a hit from Cassandra Cain. (Nightwing Vol. 2 #81)
  • Scan 4: Gets mashed into a concrete wall. Result? Unfazed. (Batgirl Vol. 2 #4)
  • Scan 5: Completely no sells a hit from Cassandra Cain. Again, Cassie has busted thick concrete walls, busted swords, metal pipes, effortlessly busted several stone dummies, etc. (Batgirl Vol. 1 #63)

As you can see, Slade has excellent mid-high street durability. Yet Batman gives him massive, massive amounts of damage with only six blows.

I've already been over why its not even close.

Addressed.

And just for reference large hardwoods can way up to 50 tons according to Lovebackyard.com, and while this tree probably wasn't that big it should be atleast above the 20 ton range. I'm pretty sure thats above anything that William Cobb has ever tanked, and is definitely above the batmoblie feat.

1) Yeah sorry, this is PIS. Wonder Woman's strength is behind that tree, she threw it at him and hard. Do you seriously think Slade can tank freaking Wonder Woman (a character capable of drawing blood from Superman, shattering a rookie Hal Jordan constructs, lifting a large ship....) slamming him with a tree? Yeah no. He was previously fighting her well due to the Godkiller Sword, even taking several hits from her so I'm pretty sure her tree slam wouldn't be street tier. 2) Also was Slade tagged? I looked at the scan and he doesn't look like he was tagged, maybe he dodged. I mean, in the next page he was up and fine, but the tree was supposed to fall on him, and he can't exactly lift it.

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3) He's been hurt by less (Deathstroke Vol. 2 #13)

  • Scan 1: The shockwave of Deadborn's hit makes him scream out.
  • Scan 2-3: Being blasted out of an apartment significantly dazes/stuns him

Not trying to lowball. All I'm saying is, you can hurt him with much lesser force than 20+ tons, as seen by the Deadborn, explosion and being bullrushed through a stone wall examples. Yet here, he wasn't much hurt. 4) Batman has outlier/PIS showings as well, showings that prove he can deal significant harm to Deathstroke. Here he hurts a guy stated to be more durable than 100 layers of kevlar (Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #40)

According to wikipedia, kevlar is 5 times more durable than steel. According to this, 5067 newtons (or 0.5 ton force metric, using this converter) would be needed to bend a steel rod. Kevlar is 5 times more durable than that. Utilizing basic math, this is a 30+ ton striking feat.

Here Slade after powering down the Ikon suit allows himself to be hit five times by his son, Jerhico, who is wearing a 7th generation Ikon suit. It takes five blows for Jerhico to KO his father, with Slade tanking the first four.

"Tanking"? No, he wasn't tanking anything. He only tanked the first punch. The rest? Not so much. Voters, I encourage you look at the scans. Does this look like a tank to you? Slade has an expression of pain, with a huge amount of blood drawn.

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What about this? His head even looks like it's bleeding a bit if you look at the upper right.

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Or this?

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This a tank? His eye even looks bruised a bit.

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That's not what I call tanking. It's called getting the snot beaten out of you.

hat makes this so insane is the fact that earlier in the same fight the shockwaves of Jerhico's punches while attacking his father (who had the Ikon suit activated at the time) were ragdolling a 10 wheel truck. And a class 7 ten wheeler has an average weight of 29500 pounds of 14.75 tons. Ragdolling 15 tons is already>>breaking through a metal wall, but doing that with the shockwaves of a punch is>>>>>breaking through a metal wall. This means that a single punch from Jerhico is massively more powerful than 11 punches from Batman, yet Slade tanked four of these blows in a row.

1) Slade did NOT tank that. 2) The shockwaves didn't ragdoll a 10 wheel truck. The truck just crashed into that weird energy field (I mean shockwaves don't form energy bubbles like the one engulfing Slade and Jerhico) surrounding him. Jericho wasn't even punching Slade in that panel for there to be shockwaves:

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3) Not every blow of Jericho's is casual truck ragdolling (and he didn't ragdoll the truck, but assuming he did). One of his hits barely broke some concrete off, and it was a small portion of concrete:

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Another of his punches didn't go right through a metal pole, tho it did bend it:

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Based on consistency of that fight, Jericho wasn't using casual truck ragdolling blows. He was using metal bending and small portion of concrete breaking blows. The truck blow was only used once, guess Jericho was particularly enraged at that moment or something.

This level of damage soak is also represented in their fights since Slade who was at 25% Deathstroke has already tanked 12 blows from Batman and a number of explosives,

1) He was not at 25 percent, he was at 75 percent. 2) I already went over using that fight as faulty logic. 3) After re-reading that explosive scan, Slade wasn't hit by the explosion. Look at the explosion, and where he's placed:

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The force of the explosion sent him flying but it didn't tag him.

and being buried under dozens of tons of rubble:

Dozens of ton? Lol. That looks like 5 tons or so. Probably less, given how this piece of rock is only 1 ton:

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See the first panel here? The piece of rubble Harley is standing on is the part Slade is buried under, given how she found him under it. That rubble looks to about 3-5 times the size of the above, so about 3-5 tons.

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And Deathstroke was significantly dazed, given how he didn't manage to out or even move under Harely removed that piece of rock covering his hand. Anyway, I've shown Batman easily surpassing 5+ tons of striking force but if you want more feats, I'm happy to oblige. Here while having his right arm broke, bleeding heavily and his right arm being cut up, as well as dying from poison gas, Batman causes massive amounts of damage to reinforced glass (Batman Chronicles #8). Note this glass was stated to be capable of tanking a freaking bazooka with only a crack.

Obviously full power Batman>>highly weakened Batman so he should strike way harder than he did even in this instance. For reference Bazookas can damage tanks, not completely destroy but still damage a bit. And no I'm not saying Batman is a tank buster, or that he can do anything close to that.

So unless you're going to claim that Batman strikes massively harder than multi thousand tonners I think it qualifies as PIS, and isn't indicative of an amp.

Strength≠striking power. Like, Hyperion has caught the rouge planet, despite the planet moving at incredible speeds. Yet his nuke lvl is what, nuke lvl at best? Hyperion's strength>>>>striking power. It could be the same with Gotham and Gotham Girl.

Unless you have other examples of Post Dionesium Batman being significantly superior to his pre-Dionesium counterpart I think it's safe to say that Deathstroke will take a licking and keep on ticking, at least until he puts the dark knight down.

Oh, but I have. Let's take Lady Shiva's fight against Batman (Nightwing Vol. 3 #0), she was easily beating him. Granted, she poisoned Bruce with a poison shuriken but I have multiple feats of Batman fighting through powerful poisons and such, even performing amazing physical feats after them. I can show such feats if needed.

But when Bruce fought her Post-Dionesium, he managed to match her (Detective Comics #956). Before you say "this is showing of skill, not better physicals", he still needed enough strength to block Shiva's blows (her blows are powerful enough to one-shot Batwing II and Azrael btw. Batwing II alone has no sold heavy gunfire, tanked huge falls and tanked a punch from a giant robot) and enough speed to be capable of reacting to and blocking them.

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3) Let's have another comparison. When Batman fought Nightwing (Nightwing Vol. 3 #30), they were matching each other. Then in Rebirth, Future Tim Drake came in and was stomping Nightwing along with Present Tim Drake, Red Hood, and Damien Wayne (Detective Comics #968)

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See what I'm saying? Pre-Dionesium Batman>=Nightwing<<Future Tim Drake. Yet Post-Dionesium Bruce managed to fight Future Tim evenly (Superman Vol. 4 #37) (and yes physicals were involved, given how he needed to take Tim's blows, match his combat speed which was enough to blitz all the Robins, etc). That's 3 instances of the boost being notable (Future Tim, Solomon Grundy, Lady Shiva).

Speed

Reactions

With the velocity set to 3937 fps (which is equal to 1200 mps) we see that it takes the bullet .11 seconds to cover 110 yards (which is roughly equal to 100 meters) and this isn't very impressive when you consider the fact that the average human can react in .17 second to an audio stimulus. So Batman is only reacting 1.54 times faster than the average human, which is hardly impressive. Moving on...

Hmm, fair enough. I would like to note another sniper timing for Batman (Legends Of The Dark Knight #174)

in reverse order

In the second panel you can clearly see bullets being shot through the lighting:

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Batman clearly didn't move before the bullets got shot. Then in the next panel, we see Bruce dodging 4 bullets:

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According to wikipedia, the average muzzle velocity of a sniper is between 800-1000 m/s. Let's assume the sniper was 900 m/s level (taking the between is the most fair assumption, unless you have another method), convert that into this m/s to mach converter and we get a mach 2.6 bullet. Pretty impressive bullet timing feat. The bullets didn't cross an extremely long 100 meter distance either.

Frankly to be able to block bullets with something as thin as a sword should qualify as bullet timing, especially since the shooter fired in multiple directions. It would take borderline precognitive levels of body reading to be able to perfectly anticipate where the shooter was aiming and raise his sword to deflect in side of only a couple of seconds. Though it is possible since he was using the flat of his blade not the edge.

He was using the flat, not the edge/tip of the sword:

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Even if it was something as thin as a sword tip/edge, he could simply be extremely skilled aim blocker. In fact this is more of an anti feat than a feat, since one of the bullets tagged Slade:

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Ehh I honestly don't think that a 3 three shooters with machine guns could miss Deathstroke dozens of times while aiming at him, especially since most of the bullet came within inches of him,

1) It's not just the shooters missing, but Slade's own excellent aim dodging and speed capabilities. I mean you say Slade has FTE speed, right? Even if he's not trying to move FTE here, he's still fast enough for it to be hard for them to manage to aim and shoot at him properly. 2) Which wouldn't be anything special, given how Batman does the same fairly casually to Ra's Al Ghul's men (Batman Annual #8)

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But to prove this aim dodging is complete trash tier to Batman, here is Bruce evading 5 shooters (Legends Of The Dark Knight #185), this is way more impressive than Slade's feat due to 20+ of bullets being shot here. Meaning, the shooters had way more chances to tag Batman. Batman has even more impressive feats, like evading 10+ shooters (Batman: Gotham After Midnight #2)

3) What do you mean by "dozens"? Looking at the scan, I only see 11 bullet "lines" effect

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That's not even a full dozen, let alone dozens.

Here he reacts to an air to air missile and dodges it using his jet pack suit, and most air to air missiles move at significantly faster than sounds speeds, such as the AIM-120 AMRAAM which moves at mach 4, the IRIS-T which moves at mach 3, the AIM-54 Phoenix which moves at mach 5, or the AIM-9 Sidewinder which moves at mach 2.5. So there's another clear example of supersonic reactions.

1) Eh mate he didn't dodge them. Using his jet pack vehicle, Slade either cut open the missiles using his sword or flew right through them. It's why there's an explosion:

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It's a combat speed feat for his jet-pack, nothing more. 2) Batman is no stranger to missile timing.

  • Scan 1-2: Reacts to a cruise missile (proof that that was a cruise missile), heck he outruns it - saving a guy. (Legends Of The Dark Knight #181)
  • Scan 3-5: Dodges some missiles from advanced tech choppers. (Batman: Outlaws #1)

So even if Slade can missile time on that lvl, Bruce at least matches him in reaction time.

Mate he's block the automatic machine gun fire with the edge of his blade, and the edge of a blade is less than a millimeter long, so its pretty much impossible to aim dodge or block it.

Edge????

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To me it looks like it's blocked on the other side of the blade, not the edge. Which is why we don't see the edge covered with that bullet effect lighting. Moreover, this seems to be more likely a case of Slade just running and the bullet happening to tag the blade. I mean, he's wearing the completely bulletproof Ikon Suit, what reason would he have to bullet time?

Explicitly and long after the heavy machine gun bullets are fired Deathstroke moves and acrobatically dodges the shots, then runs up and impales the shooter with his sword

WTF are you talking about? By "explicitly", do you mean this reaction from Deathstroke?

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He could simply have seen the shooter grab the machine gun. Pretty iffy. Again, just excellent aim dodging. Unless you think Slade evading so many bullets means he's bullet timing because you think aim dodging is nigh impossible when evading so many bullets? If so, going by that definition, Batman has even more impressive feats of bullet timing than D-Stroke:

  • Scan 1: Effortlessly weaves around 5 bullets. (Detective Comics #577)
  • Scan 2: Dodges a hail of of semi automatic and/or machine gunfire. (Detective Comics #743)
  • Scan 3: Evades a hail of semi-automatic and/or machine gunfire. Looking at the holes in that wall, it seems like 60+ bullets were fired. (Legends Of The Dark Knight #185)
  • Scan 4: Dodges 12 bullets. (Batman: Gotham After Midnight #2)

The last one should be on par with Slade's feat, the third even better considering the amount of gunfire.

whilst in the middle of a backflip he blocks a machine gun round with the edge of his sword

And this is bullet timing based on what? What was the shooters position first, so I can see if this could be aim dodging? That bullet that tagged Slade's sword could have just been a stray shot too. The chances for that increase when we consider that Nth Metal suit he was wearing is bulletproof to the point it Completely no sells a barrage of chopper gunfire. (Deathstroke Vol. 2 #2), meaning Slade would have no particular reason to bullet time. Also based on what was that machine gunfire? Sure, there looked be a lot of bullets but there could have simply been a lot of handgun shooters.

Here Deathstroke blocks dozens of bullets that were being shot at him from four different angles by machine gunners at point blank range. This is substantially above any of the reactionary feats that you've displayed for Batman thus far.

1) The feat of evading 60+ machine and/or semi automatic gunfire is definitely more impressive.....2) Dozens of bullets? WTF? Based on what? Because I don't see dozens here:

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3) Here are some other feats which are at least on par with this Slade feat:

  • Scan 1: Literally jumps out of the way of automatic (according to Robin, that is) gunfire. (Batman #425)
  • Scan 2: Nothing to say. This is just clear cut bullet timing. (Legends Of The Dark Knight #176)
  • Scan 3-4: Dodges semi-automatic gunfire (for reference popular semi automatics like the AR-15 are three times the speed of handguns, which even on the lower end are at least mach 1.1), weaving/jumping over it. Batman says he's dodging bullets so it's bullet timing. If he meant to say he was aim dodging, he would have said he was evading the shooters or something similar. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #10)

You might say the first one is aim dodging, but look at those lines. They're called motion lines, and in fiction are used to refer to motion. There being motion lines infers Bruce was moving right as the shots got fired, aka bullet timing.

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Anyway, why are these feats on par with yours you ask? Deathstroke cut the bullets out of the air. That's an arm movement. Meanwhile, Batman used a whole body movement in all these scans. Obviously a whole body movement is much harder to do than an arm movement. However, the bullets Bruce dodged were handguns or old automatic weapons. Not as fast as machine gunfire. So that factor makes their feats on par imo. However, the last feat involved dodging semi automatic gunfire, which as I've shown are plenty fast, so that last feat is better than Slade's.

Batman has casual supersonic reactions and frankly I think his reaction are well superior to Deathstroke's, the gap isn't large (although it's a decent gap), but it's certainly present and it will play a significant role in the fight.

I agree.

Agility

Not really at all though, I'll link the scans you posted for voter convenience, and frankly none of these hold a candle to Deathstroke's feat. For the scans from 592 this is a fine acrobatic feat, but its nothing special. Batman slows his decent by denting some glass and then clawing into it, helping him lose a great deal of momentum already. Then he uses a batarang rope to attach himself to a street lamp, which is a good accuracy feat but isn't relevant to agility, and then resists the G-force on him and swings up which takes strength not agility, and he can't even land properly since he slams into a truck.

You don't think it's anything special? In short Batman managed to climb down a building utilizing excellent use of acrobatics and grapple rope, despite being completely surprised and un-prepared for this as his rope was unexpectedly shot down by Deadshot in the previous issue. I like how you dismissed the batarang rope as irrelevant despite Batman using it in combat:

  • Scan 1: Grappling hook helps him dance around Anateus. (JLA: Superpower)
  • Scan 2: Uses his grapple hook to shoot Scarecrow in the face. (Batman: The Dark Knight Vol. 2 #14)
  • Scan 3: Grappling hook assists his acrobatics, evading Poison Ivy's mayhem. (Gotham City Sirens #26)
  • Scan 4 and 6: Grapple hook flings Killer Croc in the air. (Batman #610)
  • Scan 5: Uses his grapple hook to shoot one of the completely bulletproof Parademons in the leg. (Justice League Vol. 2 #1)

All I'm saying is, his grappling hook has often helped him in combat, even assisting him in acrobatics and dancing around his opponent. I know for a fact that Slade doesn't use his grappling hooks for these purposes that much.

As for the scans from 586 they're hardly impressive, all he's doing is jumping over some cars while moving at maybe 35-40 mph, a fine feat, but hardly of Deathstroke's caliber.

Can you show me Slade utilizing his environment in acrobatics like Batman did in that instance? Using cars and trucks as platforms? Otherwise that's another advantage Bruce holds.

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I honestly think your massively underestimating Deathstroke's feat, the rope he's holding gets cut, we see him fall about a foot down from his adversary, then already a foot down he grabs his adversary's foot, and uses his momentum to pull him self into an after image speed back flip that perfectly situates him above his opponent readying him for an attack.

So you want to see acrobatics in a strictly combat based manner? Sure.

  • Scan 1: Dances around Tesmuka, even flipping over his attacks. Tesmuka has shown the ability to predict opponents so well he tagged the Flash. Although he does get caught, Bruce evading some of his attacks is pretty impressive. (JLA #67)
  • Scan 2: In one motion, he backflips over gunfire then takes down a guy. (Trinity Vol. 2 #19)
  • Scan 3: Completely dances around some Robots. (Trinity Vol. 2 #20)

The first feat shows Batman's acrobatics are on par, if not better than Slade's. Also has Deathstroke used his acrobatics to completely overwhelm his opponent? I've shown Bruce doing that with the Robots feat. but to further illustrate the point here is him completely abusing his acrobatics against his opponent, curbstomping him (has Slade ever stomped his opponent with acrobatics? Or something similar?) (Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #60). To be fair. His foe managed to counter and tag him for two panels. But, for the majority of the fight he was getting stomped. Another feat, Nightwing can't tag him. Nightwing's acrobatics have been enough to dance around Deathstroke (Batman #600).

Eh fair enough, though Deathstroke still has the agility edge down.

Nope.

I'd say Batman is superior, speed in this area is even, but he has better acrobatic finesse and skill imo.

Fixed.

Fixed again.

Combat Speed

But he wasn't moving FTE to Catwoman, only to Lois. Catwoman didn't look surprised in the slightest, and she certainly would've if Batman had actually moved faster than she could see

She didn't look surprised in the slightest because it's fairly normal for Batman to just disappear on people, which would include her given how often he meets her. Regardless, if you think this is too iffy here is Bruce clear-cut moving FTE to Post Crisis Catwoman (Catwoman Vol. 3 #37)

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We see Selina directly looking at him, then reaches out her hand to click that button, then Batman suddenly disappears while in front of her. You might say she looked the other way when she was reaching out for the button, but in the second panel she's clearly looking at him. For reference, Catwoman has feats like effortlessly replicating your precious afterimages. Heck she was using acrobatics and complex moves in some of these scans.

And people who are explicitly inferior to Selina have tagged Batman before, people like Holly:

Granted it was a cheapshot, but Bruce was wary of her, and knew that she was dangerous. If Batman was massively faster than Selina he wouldn't have been tagged by someone who Selina defeated in H2H combat.

Why lowball? Holy is an incredibly low street tier, her tagging Batman is complete PIS based on consistency. Tho I guess it being a cheap-shot was the reason, since he wasn't expecting it from her. Also no, that fight between Holy and Selina isn't applicable. For all we know it was a surprise attack or a cheap-shot. Since we don't know the context, it's not applicable.

Regardless Slade has far better combat speed feats than being FTE to just one person, he has blitzed down an entire squad of nine armed and trained soldier before any of them could react or even move an inch:

1) Based on what is this FTE?? There is literally zero proof for that. Just because you can blitz a person, doesn't mean you're FTE to said person. Just that you're too fast for their reactions. Actually you can see this guy on the right managing to point/aim his gun at Slade, confirming Deathstroke was NOT moving at FTE speeds:

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2) I would just like to note Slade gunned down a few of those men, instead of blitzing them:

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4) Based on what is he moving dozens of feet? Because from your scans it doesn't look like the squad are dozens of feet apart. 5) Batman has squad blitzing FTE feats as well (Batgirl Vol. 1 #6)

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Here he punches out 6 men before they, or the other men surrounding them (4 men, to be exact) can move an inch. This is FTE because we only see Bruce punching out one guy, yet the rest look like they're getting KOed. Only possible way for that to happen is if Bats was moving FTE.

Deathstroke can swing his blades at FTE/near bullet speeds to hack automatic bullets out o the air and hack apart people and their guns all at the same time. I don't think Batman will fair well against a hail of FTE/near bullet speed sword swings that can chop through any defense he has like it's butter.

1) This is arm movement. Not overall body movement in combat. Still a great feat tho. 2) Batman has even better feats than this.

  • Scan 4 and 1: Here Batman tags Impulse. Impulse was moving at speeds fast enough that he appeared to be at several places at once, ergo he was moving at least at FTE speeds. (Impulse #50)
  • Scan 2-3: Dances around and blitzes freakin' Lady Shiva, only getting tagged once. For reference, Shiva is fast enough to dance around Cassandra Cain (without move-reading) and can briefly keep up with Robin amped on Super-speed. With Super-speed, Tim was doing stuff like this. (Superman/Batman #3)
  • Scan 5: Bruce fairly casually evades OMAC upgraded Batwing II and Azrael. Batwing alone is fast enough to effortlessly blitz groups of trained soldiers with high tech gear, as well as literally out-speed rockets. (Detective Comics #980)

Before you say Batman blitzing Shiva is inconsistent given how they stalemated before, Batman has improved since then. Like, here is Ra's stating Batman has gotten faster (Detective Comics #838)

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Slade can move FTE to fodder whilst back flipping 40-50 feet,

No, he can't. Let's look at your feat:

Deathstroke leaps backward many feet before a trained gunman can react, or even perceive him. The first scan is the full page, the second two are cropped panels, the first of which is focusing on the gun man with green eyes looking at Slade from 20 some feet, the second is of him still looking forwards even though Slade is now 10 feet behind him and 10 feet up. Slade is able to move some 40 feet faster than a trained guard can perceive

1) There is zero proof Slade moved FTE to the guard. He could have simply leapt backward before the guard could react, which would explain why the guard is still looking forward. He couldn't react to what's happening. 2) In fact there is proof the guard perceived Slade. The first panel, he's looking directly forward:

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Yet in the other panel, he's aiming upward:

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Meaning, he managed to aim at Slade whilst he's leaping, Deathstroke was just fast enough to get behind the guard before he got shot.

he can blitz down 9 fodder at once at FTE speed,

Which feat was this?

and even chop people up and bullet speeds,

I matched and out-matched that.

hell he's fast enough to do this:

With no buildup Deathstroke jumps way way faster than the Japanese bullet train, and reacts at speeds great enough to grab onto the bullet train, and keep in mind that the Japanese bullet train moves at at 374 mph which is almost half the speed of sound. Meaning that Deathstroke casually has near sonic movement speed. This is just above the Dark Knight's pay grade.

1) Mate your link is a world record, that's not the average speed of Japanese bullet trains. And that was on an experimental track.

A Japan Railway maglev train hit 603 kilometers per hour (374 miles per hour) on an experimental track in Yamanashi Tuesday, setting a decisive new world record

2) That world record was achieved in 2015. Your article says 2016, but they had updated it since it says "updated"

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Here's another article, the article was published in 2015:

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Meanwhile, Deathstroke Vol. 2 #17 was released in 2013 per the dc wiki. Don't you see a problem with that? Using a world record for a new Japanese train despite the train being released two years later than the issue you're using? 3) This Japanese train isn't even currently released/used LMAO. According to your own article, the train is going to be in service in 2027:

Japan Railways has been testing their train to figure out the best operational speed for a planned route between Tokyo and Nagoya, scheduled to begin service in 2027

4) Even assuming Slade displayed half sonic combat speed, Batman has better quantifiable feats than that. What about out-speeding heat-seeking missiles (Superman/Batman #80)?

Even in the lower end heat-seeking missiles are mach 0.6, while on the mid range are solidly supersonic. You might say this is travel speed, but Bruce is pulling out gadgets and using them, jumping, using complex manoeuvres, etc.

Ehh Nighwing didn't actually start moving at FTE speed until he dawned the Bat mantle himself, many many years after this feat, and even then he has only ever moved at low level FTE speeds

He actually has FTE feats during his Nightwing period, but he has even more impressive feats:

  • Scan 1: Matches speed with Cassandra Cain, who has blitzed a whole mansion at FTE speeds (Batgirl Vol. 1 Annual #1). (Legends Of The Dark Knight #184)
  • Scan 2-3: Tags Wally West who, from the scans, seemed to be moving at massively casual FTE speeds (due to us not being able to see him, instead we just see a blur of red and some yellow). Before you scream outlier, this is quantified by Wally moving at massively casual FTE speeds. (The Titans Vol. 1 #20)
  • Scan 4: Evades and dances out of an explosion. Pretty impressive considering explosions are faster than sound. (Batman Annual #27)

So this isn't super impressive, at least not compared to Slade.

It's solidly better than anything you've shown thus far.

After a soldier pulls the trigger on his automatic machine gun Deathstroke blitzes him and moves the gun away from himself before the bullets leave the muzzle. This is a much better combat speed feat for Deathstroke than any of the ones you've displayed for Batman thus far.

1) How far was Slade from the shooter? Because if he's right next to him, it's not that impressive. 2) How do you know Deathstroke wasn't moving toward him as he started shooting? It's not clear. 3) This isn't a combat speed feat. How is running up to the shooter before the bullets left the muzzle combat speed? If you want travel sped feats (idk how they would matter tho), Batman has moved like a blur to Nightwing and Tim Drake, surprising them with his speed (Batman #533). Dick even stated "Woah!"

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Dick is a bullet timer, here is a clear-cut bullet timing feat of using Firefly as a human shield (Nightwing Vol. 2 #98)

So even if we say travel speed is somehow important, Bruce has the edge there.

Batman>Deathstroke in all facets of speed, especially in terms of combat speed.

Agreed.

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Final Counters - Part 3

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Gear

Mate...are you really using a N52 scan to debunk Rebirth Deathstroke's feats? You do know that Rebirth Deathstroke is a separate entity and that N52 feats aren't canon to him right?

What in the hell are you talking about? N52 and Rebirth are the exact same continuity. According to Dan Didio and Jim Lee, Rebirth is essentially a back to basics. The continuity didn't change.

yeah but he only used blue blast during the Twilight arc during which he was blind, lets take a look a current Slade and what color his energy blasts area?

Let's.

Fiery yellow energy blast when shooting Hector Hammond.

Hector Hammond has took energy blasts from Larfleeze in his fight with, well, Larfleeze (Green Lantern Vol. 4 #56)

I would expect him to have the staff at its highest settting...also before any voters think Slade's staff has Larfleeze++ energy projection or something, that's not true. That fight was just a hallucinogenic test from the Society Of Evil to check if Slade is still evil or not, since he was like an anti-hero during a certain period in Rebirth (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #25)

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More fiery yellow energy blasts.

1) Slade was trying to create a shockwave beneath the plane to keep it flying, as the Wintergreen AI states:

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This isn't what I want. I want to see Slade using his Superman staggering blasts on street tiers, stating he does, or like one-shotting street tiers with impressive energy durability. 2) The next scan is Slade using that fiery blast as a warning shot/implying he's pissed off, and as an energy shield. Again, not what I'm looking for.

And once again fiery yellow energy blasts.

1) So this is inconsistent. One time he chooses to blast fodder with blue blasts, another with fiery plasma blasts. 2) He used it to blast Terra, but that doesn't necessarily prove anything. Her energy durability might simply be too high for the other blast, so he would have used the plasma blast instead. Regardless, doesn't prove he uses Superman staggering/slightly hurting blasts on street tiers when he has never done so. He certainly didn't use a top tier plasma blast while blasting Terra, otherwise she would have been one-shotted.

So clearly Deathstroke is fine using his fiery blasts in character,

I don't have issue with that rn. Just want to see him busting out his top tier blasts against street tiers.

and it actually seems like the staff for the Twilight arc and his standard staff that he's using currently and that he used at the start of rebirth are different. This is made clear by the fact that his daughter, Rose, was seen using his staff from the Twilight arc whilst fighting with the defiance team:

Umm, what proof is behind this huge assumption? Why do you assume it's his staff, and instead not a staff he got for her? Why do you assume there isn't a plasma blast setting?

So clearly they're just different models of Deathstroke's staff, not different power settings

Riight. Tho, I don't get it. Why does this matter?

Here we see Deathstroke one shot both Superman and Cyborg with his energy staff, using blue energy, so if anything the blue staff is more powerful than the yellow/fiery staff, and a single blast from this will cleave Batman in two with a single shot.

Jeez, this is taken massively out of context. All this is from the issue you cited yourself (Justice League Vol. 3 #43): The JLA pretendedto lose. They wanted to defuse/back off some refugee parties/crowds. As Superman states, Deathstroke stomping the JLA scared them off.

If you look at them, the JLA got up after the crowds defused, completely undamaged and uninjured.

And actually Deathstroke can spam blasts from his staff by spinning it around at high speeds:

You are being inconsistent with your claims. First you claim the staff with blue blasts is different from the one with plasma blasts, now you apply a feat for the plasma staff to the blue one? Weird. Furthermore, Slade only uses these spam blasts on groups, to tag multiple people at once. He doesn't use it otherwise:

  • Scan 1: Only uses one blast against Superman. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #8)
  • Scan 2: Again. (Superman Vol. 4 #32)
  • Scan 3: Only uses one blast against Deadline's Infinity Rifle, instead of using one blast to match The Infinity Rifle's energy blast and another to KO Deadline. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #16)
  • Scan 4: Only uses one blast against Hector Hammond. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #25)
  • Scan 5: Only uses one blast against Batman. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #32)
  • Scan 6: Only uses one blast against Ultra-Humanite. (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #25)

So it is clear to me, at least based on consistent showing, that this spam tactic doesn't get used against a single person, instead just groups at best. In addition, firing multiple blasts would lessen the power of the blasts, since instead of concentrating the energy into one powerful blast he spreads it out in multiple blasts. And they don't necessarily have to tag Batman, due to his speed. So in that case, how powerful would the blasts be?

So multiple one shot energy blasts that don't have to be aimed properly and that was shown to match the energy from Deadline's gun in speed, and Tanya failed on multiple occasion to react to Deadline's gun, yet in the same story she displayed casual bullet timing.

1) She swiped the bullets with some sort of energy:

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She didn't just out-right deflect them. Just wanted to point that out, she didn't deflect them with her bare hands or anything. 2) Bruce is solidly faster than that. She did that through an arm movement, and it was standard handgun gunfire. Certainly not up to par with Batman dodging higher caliber guns with whole body movements. 3) Her being a bullet timer does not matter. She was bullrushing at Deadline when the Infinity Rifle tagged her (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #15)

Keyword is bullrush. That's travel speed, not reaction time for the Infinity Rifle tagging her to be impressive. And I don't see how one can casually react to projectiles in the middle of a high speed bullrush. High-speed based on the panel look:

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Also, she wasn't expecting the Infinity Rifle.

RIP Bamtan.

Who tf is Bamtan? Anyway, a way for Bruce to counter the energy blast staff is his suit absorption capabilities. This was enough to absorb the Fan's counterfeit GL ring blast and redirect it as electricity (Justice League Vol. 3 #41)

To prove the suit has enough energy absorption capabilities to absorb Deathstroke's blasts, I would have to go through some sketchy scaling. So instead, how about I bring you a showing of the Batsuit absorbing Slade's blast already (Deathstroke Vol. 4 #32). So all Slade is doing is giving Batman a powerful energy blast that gets redirected as electricity he has to tank.

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Note how Deathstroke states he's running out of reasons not to kill Bruce, which means he's not going for the kill. Of course, in this CaV he won't be going for the kill either, unless I'm missing something...meaning, no "RIP Batman".

Yeah this is just massive PIS, nothing else to say about it, Batman effectively no sells a huge blast of Kryptonian HV,

No, he screamed out in pain. The Batsuit couldn't protect him enough.

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Please don't wank Bruce. That's my job.

and then a page later we see N52 Superman struggling against the same HV.

1) Earlier in the issue (Batman/Superman #20), we see Clark effortlessly no selling the HV:

Just look at him:

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So if he struggled with it later on, it's somewhat inconsistent. 2) Now let's look at that next page.

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S T R U G G L I N G. Sorry, but no. He no sold it. Batman's Batsuit doesn't have Superman lvl energy durability.

You do realize that in the same series we saw N52 Clark no sells a continental laser right? So lowballing it massively that HV should be city level.

Clark no sold the HV. Regardless, it's impressive either way.

Are you really going to tell me that Batman can easily tank city level+ blasts? His energy durability is simply not that high.

Not sure if it's city lvl or not. I'll just leave the feat there, simply being impressive. Although I would like to note it's not absurd for a genius who has several high, herald and teambuster prep feats to build a suit with city lvl energy durability.

While he does have consistent building level energy durability his armor can still be hurt by explosions:

Explosions deal damage through heat and concussive force. Energy durability mainly (at least by what we're working with here. Like plasma blasts and heat vision) goes by heat resistance, so if the concussive force damaged the Batsuit it wouldn't matter. If Bruce or the Batsuit were burned tho, it would count.

Post Crisis Batman takes heavy damage from a building level+ explosion.

1) Would just like the voters to note this is a PC feat like BPIB states, so it doesn't count as an anti feat for tanking Kryptonian heat vision. Only for PC. 2) That explosion isn't building lvl. More like small house. This is the explosion:

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The artist drew buildings as way bigger (Legends Of The Dark Knight #186)

Aside from the explosive durability feats I posted earlier, here is Batman no selling a small building sized explosion with zero damage (Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #41)

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: Batman's N52 suit (same model as the one Batman had when he tanked the kryptonian HV) takes damage from a room level explosion

No, it didn't. It sent him flying, but all that damage was gotten when some owls ripped his suit to shreds and Willaim Cobb beat the shit out of him during Batman Vol. 2 #5-6. To present more energy/explosive durability feats for New 52 Batman:

Batman gets hit by two room level+ explosions, and while he's fine when Joker stabs him we see that his suit did in fact take damage.

I've already shown 3 feats enough to debunk your two feats (and one of them isn't even valid) but if you want more here is him being engulfed in an explosion and effortlessly no selling it (Batman Vol. 2 #11)

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Note he had a beating prior to this. The beating at the hands of William Cobb. Here's a copy-pasta from earlier, if you want a refresher:

Scan 1: Lincoln March bullrushes Batman through two 1 foot thick concrete walls, then throws him out of a building through a thick brick wall.

Scan 2-3: At blur speeds, he is smashed on the Crowne Tower, creating a massive crater on the thick reinforced glass.

Scan 4: Is thrown through a building at a big church bell

Scan 5: From high atop Gotham he crashes (he did use a high velocity bat-rope to lessen the impact, but still) through the glass (wall? Window?) of one of the Wayne Towers/Buildings (note that Wayne Enterprises has their windows/glass bulletproof (Batman Incorporated Vol. 1 #6)) and through a concrete wall.

So yeah Batman isn't damaged by explosions much. Not Deathstroke's explosives, anyway.

I think that this proves that neither Post nor pre Flashpoint Batman can no sell city level blasts.

Dunno if it's city lvl but Bruce has consistently tanked and no sold explosions well beyond or on par with the stuff you posted.

Yeah this should clock in a around building level, which Tanya operates at also, so I don't see how this means that he won't get hurt by Deathstroke's staff. Deathstroke's gun can one shot Batman, period full stop

Superboy's heat vision is probably hotter than building explosions. His heat vision is so hot it turned the ground to glass (Superman Vol. 4 #17)

And according to this, it would take 3,200 degrees fahrenheit to turn sand to glass:

Sand, when hot enough to make glass, must be heated in excess of 3,200 degrees Fahrenheit.

For reference, that's enough to melt the furnace walls:

"To get a furnace that hot to melt sand into glass will melt the furnace walls," Giles said

And that's sand to glass, not even rock to glass. So while the explosion Tanya tanked packed more concussive force, it might not have packed enough heat. Also that explosion wasn't building lvl, it only covered the top of a building:

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Not even as big as the massive explosion that covered the top of a skyscraper, something Batman tanked.

Yeah I've proved that Batman doesn't have city level energy durability, and it's down right laughable that you tried to portray that as consistent.

Why tf are you putting words in my mouth? I never said he has city lvl energy durability. That attempt at lowball is what was downright laughable.

Slade still one shots with the energy canon, especially after JL 43.

Riiiight.

Already debunked this and those blue blast seem to be even more powerful than the fiery ones.

Covered.

Let me just quote back to you what you said to me a couple of sentences ago: "Like Thanos' energy durability>>>>blunt force durability, Wonder Woman blunt force durability>>>piercing durability." You need to display really solid piercing feats for the characters for any of these feats to be remotely impressive. Until then the sword will be no selling Bruce's batarangs.

  • Scan 1: Lobo effortlessly no sells some very high calibre gunfire from Lexcorp. (Batman/Superman #17)
  • Scan 2: An OMAC casually no sells a barrage of CHECKMATE (a covert operations agency) gunfire. (The OMAC Project #4)

I feel these piercing durability feats are more then enough. Given how both characters no sold supersonic projectiles, with one no selling high calibre gunfire. Also, piercing durability does not exist, for the most case. The only thing that separates piercing from blunt force, is the fact that by concentrating the energy onto a single point, the amount of force effecting that area is now significantly greater than it would have been had the object had more surface area. Unless a character has shown a piercing weakness, or better durability against piercing objects for some reason, his blunt force durability should be the same as his/her piercing.

Doubt it.

Think about it again.

Hand guns don't shoot 6 shots in a single panel, it was very clearly a machine gun mate.

Here is a mini uzi pistol shooting multiple bullets at the same time. Also, machine pistols exist.

These are all totally unimpressive and won't help at all against Deathstroke's guns.

Are you trying to drive away from my point by making an un-related comment? I was countering the anti-feats from earlier in your "Batman is consistently hurt by gunfire, meanwhile Lobo no sells high calibre gunfire and Slade hurt him" section. Like I clearly stated here:

Consistently speaking, bullets of that caliber don't have much effect on the batsuit.

Please don't try these strategies against me, if that's what you're doing....I do accept you conceding that argument of bullets hurting Batman a lot from earlier.

his is a decent feat, but machine gun fire still back more force, I already displayed that the AK-47 packs 1470 foot pounds,but what about high cal. machine guns?

Stop right there...you can't just pick your choice of gun that Slade would use. How would you know what Deathstroke wants and prefers in a gun? The length and height, stock magazine capacity, the weight, the barrel length, the recoil, the length of the sight radius, and etc are all factors in what gun you want. So your calc for the FN Fal might be completely and utterly useless....and you're using that ballistic calculator, which I showed issues with earlier.

Ones that Deathstroke might use such as the FN Fal. According to wikipedia the FN Fal has a muzzle velocity of 2756 fps and uses a 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge, which weighs around 400 grains. Back to our handy ballistic calculator and you get 6747 foot pounds at close range. Whereas a standard M40 sniper rifle uses a 175 grain cartridge and fires at 2550 fps. Which using the same calculator comes out to only 2527 foot pounds of force, which is 2.6 times less powerful as the FN Fal. So I still don't see why Batman won't be getting floored.

Just first of all, can you tell me why you chose these specific guns? Anyway, I don't think machine guns pack more force behind them than high caliber chopper/helicopter gunfire (All Star Batman #12)

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And gets knocked over and temporarily stunned, which has been my argument for what Slade's guns will do to Batman the whole time, so if anything you just played right into my hand, thanks I guess.

Mate that's what we call a feint, he did to take down the guy:

looks completely undamaged
looks completely undamaged

And no, that wasn't your argument. You argument was the bullets would deal major amounts of damage to Bruce, given the anti-feats you gave me from the start:

Granted Batman was off of his game in these scans, but thats skill wise, he wasn't right in the head, but his durability should be totally unhindered. Anyway as you can clearly see Batman gets knocked on his ass, is in serious pain, and struggles to get up after taking two bullets from a modern machine gun to the chest. These bullets were obviously way less powerful than what Lobo got hit with.

Here Batman gets hit at roughly point blank by a shotgun blast, while these are more powerful than your average machine gun bullet (not by much mind you) and he was at close range, he can't even get up, and needs to call Alfred for pickup.

====

So going by Post Crisis and N52 feats Batman will be harmed by Slade's gunfire, but because of his rebirth armor he will be unaffected? That could be valid except for the fact that Rebirth Batman has taken heavy damage from powerful machine gun shots as well:

N52 armor would be hurt, Post Crisis would casually tank it, Rebirth would no sell.

With a single (granted clearly high caliber) shot to the helmet a swat team one shot temp KOs Batman, manages to heavily crack his helmet, and draw blood. So clearly Batman won't be no selling Slade's gun fire.

Sort of inconsistent given how he no sold sniper and chopper gunfire. Two instances is more consistent than a single instance. Also, what's stopping Bruce aim-dodging the gunfire, or just dodging it with his bullet timing speed? I've shown some insane aim dodging feats, like evading 20+ bullets and 10+ shooters. But here are arguably better feats:

  • Scan 1: Aim dodges freaking Deadshot at the last moment. What makes this so impressive is there isn't an indicator to Deadshot, no click Batman can see in Floyd's wrist guns. So he had nothing to aim dodge with. (Suicide Squad Vol. 1 #10)
  • Scan 2: Evades the Wrath's incredibly high calibre gunfire, which is 5 thousand bullets per minute. (Batman Confidential #15)

Here we see him shooting with afterimage speed and head shot level accuracy whilst upside down, batarangs aren't coming close to his guns.

1) Where are the afterimages? 2) What's stopping him from cutting them down mid combat? Slade has used his guns in CQC multiple times before.

After Deadshot shoots at Deathstroke, Slade snipes Deadshot's bullet right out of the air before it can hit him, and if he can do that to a bullet I'm fairly confidant that he can do the same to an explosive, which is much larger, and much slower moving.

The explosives could just be used in CQC. Slade has used his guns in CQC multiple times before, which means he'll put them out in CQC.

Where is it made clear that Hawkman was hit in the chest plate, it actually looks like he was hit in the ribs where he has no Nth metal protection, and regardless Hawkman wasn't even stunned or hurt when he got ploughed through concrete and had several cars explode on top of him, so the showing still stands.

Yeah well this lvl of durability isn't consistent for Hawkman, at least that's my conclusion after reading his New 52 run. He essentially took a hit that rag-dolled several cars and ploughed him through several feet of concrete, all with zero damage. He could likely survive that but he would take major damage given his consistent lvl of durability:

  • Scan 1-2: Wall busting hit hurt him/causes him pain. (The Savage Hawkman #8)
  • Scan 3: A religious zealot's stone busting hits hurt him, even drawing blood. I know the first hit wasn't confirmed to be stone busting, and only the second hit sent Hawkman flying through a stone statue. But the second hit was a kick, so if anything it should even be more powerful and thus the first hit weaker, plus no reason to hold back on the first blow. (The Savage Hawkman #11)
  • Scan 4-5: Gets the shit beaten out of him and KOed by getting slammed by 3-4 tons of metal. 3-4 tons based on the fact that this is 3 tons of steel. Not exactly a shame, but that durability feat you posted should have allowed him to tank this. (The Savage Hawkman #14)
  • Scan 6: Getting pulled through a chimney makes him scream out in pain. (The Savage Hawkman #14)
  • Scan 7: Morphicus casually beats him up -- dazing him and drawing blood. Morphicus is the guy who punched Carter in that feat of yours, so that makes his feat quite inconsistent considering his previous showings with Morphicus. (The Savage Hawkman #1)

I'm not trying to lowball here, just pointing out that Carter Hall isn't as durable as you claim, and considering Batman's feats, he is certainly way more durable in the blunt force department. Also, Slade's guns harming Hawkman is from a crossover between the Hawkman and Deathstroke comics. The Hawkman comics have a different interpretation of the event (The Savage Hawkman #14)

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The shot is in the third panel, and it only stung him, nothing more. Rob Liefield wrote both Deathstroke Vol. 2 #14 and the Savage Hawkman #14 as well, so "we have to go by the original events in crossovers like this'' arguments are non valid. The writer is just being inconsistent, so I don't know how to judge this feat.

The feat is still very impressive though, his guns were able to ragdoll Legacy for multiple feet. And Legacy is a 200 pound guy in a full body super dense suit that probably weighs 200+ pounds, so with a couple of shots from his Uzi Deathstroke send a 400+ pound man flying back 8-10 feet. That's way way way above regular bullets, which can't even lift a regular person off their feet, yet Deathstroke's Uzis can ragdoll a 400+ pound man like nothing. The gun will certainly be a problem for Deathstroke.

1) You should read the reasons normal bullets can't knock someone off your feat:

First of all, a bullet is a streamlined object, meaning that it is designed to minimize the effect of aerodynamic drag. The advantage of this design is that it concentrates a large amount of energy (high kinetic energy due to the virtue of its speed) onto a very small area, thus striking the target with a very high pressure, which facilitates penetration of the surface in most cases. However, due to its small mass as compared to a human, it has very low momentum, which is not enough to knock a human (who is tens of thousands of times heavier than the bullet) off their feet.

The reason is literally cause bullets are designed to pierce. What this tells me for Slade is his bullets aren't specially designed for piercing, rather blunt force. 2) I'm confident high cal. chopper/helicopter gunfire packs more force than that. Considering some helicopter gunfire can shred tanks...the gunfire Bruce tanked don't have to be on the same lvl, but they would be incredibly powerful either way. 3) Based on what does the armor weight 200 pounds?

I doubt that Batman has ever restrained someone of Slade's skill and speed caliber with his grappling cable.

For speed, he's tagged and restrained the Human Flea (Batman: Shadow Of The Bat #12)

This dude was dancing around/blitzing Batman. As for skill, how would that help him evade a grappling hook? Has it helped him? Regardless, here are some marksmanship and marksmanship usage feats:

  • Scan 1: From a good distance, he tags Gorilla Grodd with his grappling hook/bat-rope. (Superman/Batman #3)
  • Scan 2: Uses his grappling hook to gain an aerial advantage over Deathstroke. (Deathstroke: The Terminator #7)
  • Scan 3: Takes down a mini copter with a ski pole. (Batman #664)
  • Scan 4: Restrains Calvin Rose (a Talon) with a bola and a grappling hook. (Talon #7)
  • Scan 5: With a precise ricochet throw tags Red Hood with a batarang. (Batman #650)

Also even if Slade's arms are wrapped up he could just use his wrists to get a knife and free himself.

1) How will he move his wrists when they're held up as well? Batman's grappling hook/bat-rope has covered the wrists on multiple instances.

Scan sources:

  • Talon #7
  • Superman/Batman #4
  • Detective Comics Vol. 2 #19

2) Where does Slade store his knife in his costume? Because depending on that, he might not be able to reach it. 3) A freaking knife isn't going to cut apart Batman's grappling hook. It has a 15 ton breaking strain as previously shown, meaning you would need 15 tons of force to cut it. As I previously stated, piercing is just concentrated force so that factor still applies. If that's not enough for you, it's made out of titanium (Detective Comics #776)

No Caption Provided

For reference, a titanium plate has withstood little pellet guns all the way up to huge ass armor piercing .50 cal black tip bullets.

So gas in general is a moot point, unless Bruce can shatter Slade's mask which is made of Nth metal and which he was unable to even crack in their fight in Deathstroke Vol. 3 #5 with 12 blows, so good luck there.

Well AFAIK gas filters would be stuff like this (tho obviously Slade would have a miniaturized version) so electronic equipment. Meaning, Bruce can shut off the gas filters through EMPs:

  • Scan 1: Uses EMPs to shut off security cameras. (Red Robin #17)
  • Scan 2: Utility belt EMP shuts off arkham asylum. (Batman Vol. 2 #16)
  • Scan 3: More of EMPs. (Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity #2)

So Batman can just shut off the gas filters with an EMP, then take out Deathstroke with a dose of knockout gas.

But it only stalled Flash for about 2 seconds, so how will it stall Deathstroke, who is vastly superior in durability and endurance for 10 whole seconds, I'm fairly certain that DS will shake it off like nothing and continue to fight,

Flash has effortlessly no sold rushing through a train, crumpling all the metal. Slade is not massively more durable than him. As for endurance, how would that matter in being frozen? And sure, it doesn't have to be 10 seconds. One second or even deciseconds would be enough considering Batman's combat speed.

also has Batman ever used this gadget in combat? Because that's Nightwing who uses it in the Flash scan. If not then it's OOC for him to use it anyway.

Uhh he's used freeze gear multiple times (and by the way, Batman is the one who developed that prep plan in Dark Knights: Metal #2 to evade the JLA, so using the freeze turret is his idea). Every time he just chooses to use a different freeze gadget. Here, I'll comply all of that:

  • Scan 1: Uses freeze cannisters to kill some bugs. (Batman: Streets Of Gotham #20)
  • Scan 2: Utilizes liquid helium to cool down a room. (Batman #444)
  • Scan 3: Freeze capsule freezes Ultimate Clayface's hand. (Detective Comics #735)
  • Scan 4: Freeze ray freezes up some Talons. (Forever Evil Aftermath: Batman Vs. Bane)
  • Scan 5: A freeze spray freezes acid. (Gotham Knights #33)
  • Scan 6: Freeze turret freezes Flash. (Dark Nights: Metal #2)
  • Scan 7: Liquid Nitrogen affects the ethereal Ghost Soldier. (Batman/Superman #11)

But ice doesn't trap radiation, and Superman was still in close contact with the ring so...

It at least traps kryptonite radiation...why else would Superman freeze the ring?

Yeah but the thing is that the amount of light your eye can take before going blind=/=energy durability, lets call it light durability. Superman was so massively weakened that he was temp KOed by a block level blast, Yeah but the thing is that the amount of light your eye can take before going blind=/=energy durability, lets call it light durability. Superman was so massively weakened that he was temp KOed by a block level blast, meaning his light durability would also be insanely weakened, weakened to the extent where it would bring him down to near a regular human in terms of light durability, yet he shrugged off Batman's flash bang like nothing, and was only partially blinded for a second. Slade already has very impressive light durability, like no selling flashbangs designed for metahumans, so once again this won't affect Slade in the slightest.

Fair enough. Tho I need light durability feats from those metahumans, quoting you I'd need light durability feats for the mid tier Hulk rip-off, same with you. Either that or this isn't a fair debate. Regardless, Batman's flashbangs have temp (while it was temporary, Dark Supergirl has massively better light durability than Slade, so this should blind Slade for a long time at least) blinded Dark Supergirl , who has matched Supergirl (Supergirl Vol. 5 #5)

No Caption Provided

If you want precious "light" durability feats for Supergirl, she does have this (Trinity #14)

Scans are self explanatory. Yes, I know that's a feat for Supergirl, but Dark Supergirl is pretty much Supergirl. Just evil.

And what are its light durability feats? If it doesn't have any then all Batman was doing is blinding some featless fodder, because as you said yourself: "but as we know there are different types of durability. Like Thanos' energy durability>>>>blunt force durability, Wonder Woman blunt force durability>>>piercing durability" So this feat is pretty much useless.

You're misusing that quote. I was just saying if a character shows vastly better durability in an area than another, then we have to accept that. Characters have vastly different durability all the time. Doesn't mean mid tiers should somehow have street tier light and blunt force durability, but energy durability. Or something absurd like that.

So even if Batman does manage to blind Slade for half a second (he won't) Deathstroke will have no problems in combat.

I was never expecting his speed to be worse. But his skill should be massively worse unless he's shown the same lvl of skill while blind. We don't know if he can fight the same while blind. When he got two eyes due to I-Ching's work on him, his fighting skills weren't as good as they previously were (Deathstroke Vol. 3 #5)

No Caption Provided

So it's clear when Slade is out of his usual physical condition (like having 2 eyes), his skill is much worse. Meaning, I'm going to need showings of his skill being the same while blind.

Well I'm saying that due to Slade's superior movement speed, combat speed, and agility if he wanted to run away from Bruce he easily could, and the Dark Knight couldn't catch him.

That's yet to be proven. Thus far, Batman has better speed in every area.

Here he jumps 30+ feet (a solid agility speed feat), and without slowing even a little or losing any he cuts open the metal wire and flawlessly soars through, so I don't think Batman's rope will be of much concern to him, especially since he can swing his swords at bullet speed.

When did I contest to any of that? I stated he can easily cut through the cables. It just takes a bit of time to cut all cables in his way, even time for Batman to catch him. It's a minor distraction, nothing more.

Nice feat, solid building level, but he's been slowed down by less, I'm not saying Slade could hurt him, just ragdoll him/slow him down.

Not happening. All your anti-feats indicated he gets by hurt by less too, yet he's most consistently been unfazed by huge explosions. The only times he were ragdolled were when he wasn't expecting it (so he didn't have time to brace), if you look at the N52 durability feats I posted.

Ehh fair enough, flashbangs won't work on Brucie Boy.

Cool.

All logic and evidence would contradict that statement.

No.

You haven't shown any impressive piercing feats though, you've shown him cutting a bunch of high tiers with no notable piercing feats, doubt they'll pierce Slade who's Nth armor was totally no selling high cal rounds

Oh no, the dreaded piercing durability nonsense.

, and I doubt they'll tag him since he can just block and incinerate them by spinning his staff at high speeds and supercharging it with energy like he did here when deflecting an energy blast from Bolt:

No, I meant like he'll punch Slade, and as the punch tags him the batarang gets launched into Slade. This tactic doesn't work that way.

The only actually quantifiable/impressive feat there is the 10,000 volt batarang,

I was showing the consistency of him using his electric gear.

however Deathstroke has far far better electricity durability. A Snakebite weakened Deathstroke tanks five high tech tasers at once:

Just to be clear the highest powered tasers pack up to 85-86 million volts and I'm sure that the guards at Lex corp only use the best of the best, this means that Slade was only temporarily stunned by 430 million or so volts. This means that Slade was only down for a page from an attack that is 43000 times more powerful than Batman's most powerful electric attack.

Wow okay, I can concede electrical gear.

Already explained why this is useless.

Not really.

I addressed how Deathstroke can easily deal with all batarangs.

Not really. It'd be really effective if Bruce uses the acid batarangs in CQC as well.

What durability feats do Man Bats have to come even remotely close to Deathstroke? Also they have a weakness to sonic attacks due to their bat-based physiology, which includes insanely sensative ears, these won't be particularly significant.

No, I was showing he has sonics. Now you need to show me how durable his ear-drums are aka sonic resistance feats. But if you want something a bit more impressive, his sonics have hurt Killer Croc (Batman In Barcelona: Dragon's Knight)

Croc has tanked huge building falls, bullrushed through concrete walls, etc. But again, raw durability =/= sonic durability.

Deathstroke could use his gauntlets to deflect this attack just like he did when facing the stone cutters:

And these blade could cleave clean through stone, so blocking the is very impressive

It's not impressive in the slightest, I've shown batarangs cutting through high tiers. But here are quantifiable -- tho way more impressive than stone cutting -- feats:

  • Scan 1: Cuts a robotic metal tentacle. (Justice Society Of America Vol. 3 #6)
  • Scan 2: Slices off a robot's head. (JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice)
  • Scan 3: Plows through a thick concrete pillar. (Batman: Child Of Dreams)
  • Scan 4: Cuts a metal chain. (Detective Comics #591)

also keep in mind that Deathstroke could easily just chop the batarangs in half with his sword,

Bruce can chop his sword as well.

and he is far more impressive than Batman in terms of swords man ship/bladed combat. He was able to hold his own against Ra's Al Ghul for multiple pages in combat, even whilst emotionally unstable (his only established weakness):

How was he emotionally weakened? And not really. Post Crisis Batman is much more skilled in bladed combat than Post Flashpoint Ra's. Here he solidly beats PC Ra's (Batman #616)

I believe I've already shown impressive feats for Ra's. But a better feat is pretty much stomping Azreal (Detective Comics #866)

And Azrael is no slouch, he has matched Deathstroke (someone capable of stomping Green Arrow and Black Canary at the same time) in a sword-fight (Azrael Vol. 1 #45)

To be fair, Bruce had a shield for defense. But he also has his gauntlets in this battle, which could be used to block Slade's sword. He already did (Batman Vol. 3 #28)

No Caption Provided

So yeah, Batman is much more skilled than Slade meaning he can out-skill him in bladed combat and block many of his sword strikes. Any minor slash that tags Batman won't do much, considering Bruce's insane endurance.

In a single page Bruce get resoundingly stomped, yet Slade doges attacks, lands blows, and gives Ra's a rough time for three full pages, and I've already been over just how skilled PF Bruce is in H2H/CQC.

To be fair, Bruce was out of armor. And his armor is a pretty huge part of his bladed combat fighting style, as he uses his gauntlets as a defense for sword strikes:

  • Scan 1: Blocks a knife. (Batgirl Vol. 3 #6)
  • Scan 2: Blocks a sword strike from Deathstroke. (Batman Vol. 3 #28)
  • Scan 3: Blocks a sword strike. (Detective Comics Vol. 2 #13)
  • Scan 4: Blocks multiple knives. (Batman Vol. 2 #1)
  • Scan 5: Blocks sword strikes. (Batman Eternal #9)
  • Scan 6: Blocks a sword strike from Lady Shiva. (Detective Comics #956)

That's not really an accurate representation of what would happen between if Batman had his gauntlets.

So if Batman tries this tactic I see no reason why Slade can't just chop the batarangs to pieces.

And I see no reason why Bruce doesn't chop Slade's swords to pieces, since he's a much more skilled bladed combat fighter.

To conclude the gear section let me just say again quantity>quality.

Luckily Batman has both.

In ranged combat Slade can end the fight in a single shot with his staff, and in CQC he can one shot with his sword, Slade has the edge in this category as well, and its what gives him the definitive win.

Addressed.

Conclusion

Essentially the opposite of yours:

  • Bruce hits hard enough to put some serious hurt on Slade, and with continued and consistent blows put him down.
  • Due to his superior speed and far superior skill Batman will have no trouble in casually out-matching Deathstroke in combat.
  • Bats' has the damage soak to tank blow after blow from the Terminator, and the endurance to keep fighting despite any minor sword slash or punch from 'Stroke.
  • Some of Batman's gear can one-shot Slade, and keep the hurt on him during the fight.
  • Bruce has the gear, the durability, and the skill to negate all of Deathstroke's gear.

Batman wins. End of Story.

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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Jesus this is bigger than the bloody Bible

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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Jesus this is bigger than the bloody Bible

this is the bible of batman

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TheWatcherKing

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Jeez

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I’m sorry guys lol. I really don’t know how it got so long

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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how many pages?

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@_kingoflatveria: you copy paste it into google docs. I’m too scared to see myself lol

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Why do you have two final counter posts?

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@krleavenger: no, my post is too big to post in one piece. So I posted it in parts

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KrleAvenger

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@krleavenger: that’s when I was working on the counter posts I just uploaded. I just can’t delete it cause I deactivated that account

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KrleAvenger

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@lanternbatman: You should ask the mods to delete it. It might seem confusing.

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Kevd4wg

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Well I would love to vote on this CaV, but I'm already reading a novel

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blackspidey2099

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Bump!

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CJ_the_DJ

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Great novel lads, what an excellent read.

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Kevd4wg

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Bump it's been two years, surely someone has read enough of it to vote

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#93  Edited By rajjarsalt

CIB wins, he convinced me that Bruce's advantages stat for stat when paired with da gear would be sufficient for Batman's victory.

I wish you two would have expanded on your args more, though. Line by line argumentation is nice and all but I think more general expansion on the feats would have made this a more difficult debate to decide. But that's to the credit of the debaters.