CaV: Dark Schneider (God_Vulcan) vs Composite Goku (HitTheAssasin)

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HigherPower

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@thedeathstar: No one's afraid of you and your alt.

Well, afraid of contracting a mental illness, then maybe.

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Major_Hellstrom

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TheDeathstar

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#103  Edited By TheDeathstar

@god_vulcan: My debates are solid with pieces of evidence backing it up not just assumptions and I am well aware of the series Bastard and people actually agree with me on many debates. As for atls, never had one and if you can prove any alt of mine posting here I will leave the comicvine. That's false accusation, my friend.

I love how you say "mental illness" so casually. Wish you don't have one since you judge "things" based on "nothing".

Schneider vs Beerus CaV come at me anytime and yea don't die :(

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HigherPower

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#104  Edited By HigherPower

@thedeathstar: In all seriousness, I'm preoccupied and have my hands full with 3 other ongoing CaVs to worry about. I'd like to finish at least of them before starting another one, as to not overwhelm myself. If this debate was continued (with anyone, not just you) it wouldn't finish for a while. If you're ok with that, be my guest.

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TheDeathstar

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@god_vulcan: Well then when you finish it, give me a call.

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Galactic_1000

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T4V

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Streak619

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'Afraid of contracting a mental illness, then maybe'

*round of applause*

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HitTheAssasin

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@thedeathstar: no offense, but you don't have a chance in hell. Have you ever actually done a CaV?

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TheDeathstar

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#109  Edited By TheDeathstar

@hittheassasin: Never did one but I know how it works and I am capable of debating and defending my arguments. People also spread a lot of lies about Dark schneider and his limited haxes.

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Thenewguysnm1

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Yeah this needs to be locked

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LiTTlleJeiKKie

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#111  Edited By LiTTlleJeiKKie

@marc_55: no it isn't!!! stop spreading bald statement without proff...you did the same thing when it was torriko vs hit...you state but no proof to back it up. i asked you an evidence but you ran away cause you couldn't provide it.. it is because of peoples like you who only played the game and then talk as if they ever seen the show. we gave you a proof you don't. looks to me that the one being a fanboy is you pulling things out of your ass without evidence to back them up, if you can't handle that then GTO of this debate.

not an insult.. but you talk too much with no proof!!! learn to do that, you will make it for the insult just slow down.okey.

and for the record, if it's current goku he can't lose. in my oppinion he should stomp...since it is composite he can use hakai to erase dark..goku is way too much for dark to handle in raw power although it would be interesting to see if hakai works or not. also we don't even know if ds attack would hurt goku.

plz provide feats for why you think ds would beat goku cause he can not!!!

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Where Dark Schneider TRULY Ranks in Dragon Ball + Nero Debunked

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EmperorZeech

04/04/18

EDIT: Nero deleted his post. Luckily I've quoted & immortalized his words.

So, it's been quite a while since I've posted anything major. I've been tired of debating for the most part, however this piqued my interest, as I've been wanting to talk about Bastard!! & Dark Schneider for a while now, and this has given me a golden opportunity to do so. There's a fair amount of misinformation about Dark Schneider due to it being a more obscure series, and a lack of research.

This is the post I'll be dissecting. The subject of Nero's blog is why Dark Schneider from Bastard!! would solo most of Dragon Ball Super, and I am going to refute his claims, correct his inaccuracies, and at the end explain where Dark Schneider TRULY stands in Dragon Ball. I'll be quoting Nero's blog in italics throughout, so you can see I'm not taking anything out of context.

DISCLAIMER: Don't go out and send Nero death threats or anything of the sort, I've got nothing against him, I just favor facts over fallacies. Credit to Wells, DragonBall*Magnum*Expert & Torrus Silvér for calculations & blogs I've referenced.

100 YEAR TIME-SKIP GOKU (GT) > UI GOKU?

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"With DBS officially ended, we now have a good idea of how strong Goku is at his peak in performance and strength in the DB Continuity; the strongest he’s ever been is RIGHT NOW, save for the End of GT one, but that being noncanon makes it irrelevant."

Here he implies that the "End of GT one", 100 Year Time Skip Goku is stronger than Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku.

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The GT Perfect Files state that SSJ4 Gogeta "has no equal" , and 100 YTS Goku is included in this guidebook. SSJ4 Gogeta by feats is low end Multi-Universal and SSG / God Essence Goku (Battle of Gods Arc) has higher end feats than him. It is true that 100 YTS Goku has a strange connection to the Dragon Balls and seems almost ghost-like, however that doesn't have any correlation to his actual strength.

This blog by Torrus Silvèr goes into greater detail on SSG Goku > SSJ4 Gogeta, and here on why SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 Year Time-Skip Goku than I am, as I'd rather not dwell on what's already been refuted and get into the Dark Schneider Debunk.

Base Goku (Episode 14) > SSJ Goku (Episode 13) > SSG Goku (Episode 13) > SSJ4 Gogeta > 100 YTS Goku

BASE DARK SCHNEIDER DOWNPLAY?

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"Well, as he is in his base state, Darsh is actually incredibly fodder without his magic. His physical prowess is alright, being hypersonic and city to continental level with his striking attacks. It’s when you allow him to use his magic he spikes in power."

Did you think this was only going to be me debunking Nero's claims of Dark Schneider > Dragon Ball? Think again. Here Nero states that Base Darsh is only continent level in terms of striking power & hypersonic in speed at best.

Nero is referring to Darsh towards the beginning of Bastard, and not Base Darsh at his maximum. I assume Nero is saying that Post Time-Skip Darsh is this weak due to him referencing Darsh's Post Time-Skip feats & using an image of Post Time-Skip base Darsh.

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Post Time-Skip Base Darsh RIPS KONRON IN HALF, the very same being whose maximum power scared the Seraphs (source) who were stated by the author to be capable of pulverizing planets & moving faster than light here

On top of this, Darsh was capable of moving faster than the Seraphs can perceive. The same Seraphs who can travel faster than the speed of light, up to 7,000x FTL in travel speed, as they crossed the Black Abyss (a supermassive black hole) in roughly 4 years.

If we scale base Darsh to base Uriel, he could be Star level due to Uriel's Divine Spear Gungir being capable of blowing apart a star.

This is the equivalent of saying DBZ base Goku is only Small Planet level due to his feats and scaling in the Saiyan Arc, and ignoring his gains in power over the course of the series.

Nero, don't downplay base Darsh. He's a beast as well.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S SPELLS DEBUNK

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super. Don’t believe me? "

Nope, and I'll explain why.

"Black Sabbath allows Darsh to create a “matter-less space within a magical barrier and traps his opponent within.” Already, anyone who can’t deal with magic is kind of screwed. Then he teleports matter into the space, makes it undergo nuclear fusion to basically point-blank nuke them with a 1 million degrees (Celsius btw) explosion, and then they get sent to a different dimension."

DB characters have numerous feats of resisting magic, such as Vegeta & Nappa being too powerful for Shenron to kill, Androids 17 & 18 being too powerful to alter into humans, Piccolo shrugging off Babidi's magic, Vegeta overpowering Babidi's mind control, Vegito resisting Buuhan's Candy Beam, Copy Vegeta overpowering the Commeson's mind control, etc.

"Specific heat of air: 1.005 kJ/kg K = 1,005 Joules

Assuming that AoE of the Heated air is 1 meter (radius) and 2 meters (height): 6.283,19 m3*1.225 kg/m3=7.696,907,75 kg

Average temperature: 289.15 K

1 million Celsius: 1,000,273.15 K

1,000,273.15 -289.15 =999,984 Kelvins

7.696,907,75*1,005*999,984=7,735,268,522.47 J

1.848,773,547 Tons of TNT

Building Level" ~ Wells

Moving onward, 1,000,000 degrees is nothing to DB characters. Goku even early on in Z is capable of harming and burning beings with planetary level durability and above. As you can see in the above calculation (credit to Wells) Black Sabbath's heat and area of effect only makes it building level, or roughly on par with 2 tons of TNT.

But Nero, I thought even Base Darsh's spells could "kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super"? Are you insinuating that characters such as SSJ4 Gogeta, Hit, Toppo, etc have only BUILDING LEVEL durability? Is Super Saiyan God Goku comparable to characters like BATMAN in terms of durability? I don't think so.

Teleporting your opponent away also doesn't necessarily count as a victory, as you lacked the ability to actually defeat your opponent. Goku could likely instant transmission out of whatever dimension Darsh sends him to as he's capable of teleporting across dimensions such as The Mortal Realm, Afterlife, and Kaioshin Realm. That is, if it even worked on Goku, as it has no feats of working against beings on a Multi-Universal to Low Multiversal scale.

"Damned Nation allows Darsh to fire a rift of broken space-time at the opponent, proving his ability to warp reality."

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Beings such as Gotenks & Buu were capable of shouting holes in the fabric of space-time with techniques such as the Kiai Yell. Buuhan was capable of a much greater feat with his Vice Shout, in which he was going to crush the Mortal Realm by pulling alternate dimensions into it.

We even see Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black tear a hole into (possibly) another space-time and then control the energies which flowed through the rip in reality to obstruct Goku's Ki Sensing and create an army of intangible clones.

"Dispel Bound creates an unknown number of “shields” which have multiple layers and constantly regenerate at FTL speeds, and completely nullify any attack coming at Darsh. If they manage to be broken, they can just simply regenerate nigh instantly. However, they are useless if Darsh fights someone stronger than him."

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Dispel Bound has been shattered by Galaxy Level attacks as you can see in the scan above, and by beings stronger than he is, as you've already agreed & conceded to, and by feats Goku is Multi-Universe level in Attack Potency/Destructive Capability, and by using linear scaling (which is heavily downplaying, otherwise average human level beings such as the Farmer with a Power Level of 5 would be capable of taking out large chunks of the moon, which requires a PL of 139) he is Low Multiversal, far beyond anything Darsh has ever tanked.

"Judas Priest is one of Darsh’s strongest attacks, and it’s easy to see how. In his base, JP attacks on an atomic level to disintegrate the target. However, this effect changes once Darsh transforms. Once transformed, JP becomes arguably his strongest spell, and his best weapon to kill any DB foe; JP gains the ability to attack the target “on every level of existence simultaneously, destroying the eternal atoms of their body, soul and spirit”. This means it’s an attack similar to the Hakai, but even more powerful, not stopping at their soul but their very spirit."

All right, there's a LOT wrong with this statement, so I'll break it down piece by piece.

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• Implying that atomization would work against high tiers in DB is laughable. Ki Blasts are capable of atomizing targets if the user chooses to, as stated and confirmed in multiple guidebooks, and DB characters are able to tank these Blasts which are capable of atomization. The above scan states that SSJ Future Trunks atomized Frieza, and this guide states that SSJ2 Gohan atomized Super Perfect Cell. (Credit to DragonBall*Magnum*Expert)

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• Stating that Judas Priest is essentially a better Hakai is also incorrect. Nero states that Judas Priest is superior to the Hakai due to it being capable of destroying the spirit of the target along with the body and soul. In Dragon Ball Super Episode 69, we see Beerus CASUALLY erase the ghost of Doctor Mashirito with two fingers, not even looking up from his food. Whis even states "Ghost or not, there's nothing Lord Beerus can't destroy." We've also seen that when most beings are killed, their spirit goes to the Afterlife, seemingly as a spirit, and when a being is erased with the Hakai, their existence is erased entirely and they don't go to the afterlife, as stated by Sidra when handing off some of his Energy of Destruction to his assassin.

• We've also seen True Golden Frieza & an off-guard Base Goku tank and resist (respectively) Hakai Energy from Sidra, a God of Destruction. Frieza even made a joke of it, initially only pretending to be harmed by the Hakai Energy. Regardless of Sidra's power, it was stated to have the same function as the Hakai.

Later on in the Tournament of Power we see True Golden Frieza tank yet another Hakai, this time a fully fledged Hakai from God of Destruction Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punches straight through a Hakai from GoD Toppo. Even Ki Attacks such as Frieza's Death Beams were erased by GoD Toppo's Hakai Aura. Given all of the information, we can conclude that the Hakai is capable of erasing Matter, Energy, Soul, and Spirit.

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• In terms of attack potency, Judas Priest is only Galaxy to Multi-Galaxy Level

"Testament is a powerful spell, especially useful against DB characters who have little to no resistance to extreme temperatures. It creates an Absolute Zero (0 degrees Kelvin) field and launches it, turning a caught opponent into ash afterwards."

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No resistance to extreme temperatures? If you recall near the beginning of the Tournament of Power, SUPPRESSED BASE VEGETA was hit by Hyssop's Ice Lance (1 )which was confirmed by the Supreme Kai of Universe 9 to freeze at Absolute Zero, and the official Toei Bio for Hyssop states that his body was also at Absolute Zero and Vegeta had no problem striking him. Vegeta's forearm was frozen yet he continued to fight and casually shattered the Absolute Zero ice when he transformed into a Super Saiyan.

This claim that Dragon Ball characters have no resistance to extreme temperatures is extremely fallacious, as I've proven. Moving on.

"Lastly, Venom is one of Darsh’s more terrifying spells, able to summon bacteria from Hell itself into the target’s body. The bacteria then devour the target’s organic matter near instantly, appearing as if they burst into fire."

You'll have to provide feats of Venom working on higher tier beings & take into account that Goku is capable of creating a Ki Barrier to counter poison, and as a Saiyan is naturally resistant to poison. I've already proven that Goku can tank atomization and even having his existence completely erased.

DARK SCHNEIDER'S TRANSFORMATIONS

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"Firstly, we have Majin Dark Schneider. What’s it’s multiplier? Several million-fold. What can it do? Absorb surrounding matter and reflect/absorb magical attacks targeting him."

This is correct, I see no flaws with this statement.

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"DKL Darsh gets a spell named “Loudness All Guns Blazing” where he breaks the limits of the armor and launches EVERY SINGLE ATTACK HE HAS AT ONCE at the opponent. Yes, this includes Judas Pain, Venom, Damned Nation, EVERYTHING. Multiplier? Millions if not billions or trillions more powerful than Majin."

Oof. Nowhere is it stated that DKL is trillions of times stronger than Majin DS. The only number ever explicitly stated is over 130x, and that's for Fallen Uriel's Final Power up. The manga is a bit unclear on this, it's stated that Uriel gets 130x stronger and his power is still rising, and then 130 fold is stated again (unclear if it's just being restated or that it increase by 130 fold again). Darsh matches and surpasses this, so we know DKL is at least a 16,900x Multiplier

16,900 =/= 1,000,000,000,000

"To save time and energy, I’ll only give the form’s name and appearance, as not much is known of this state. At this moment in time, Dark Schneider’s ultimate form is known as “Adam of Darkness”."

Adam of Darkness is Darsh's Final Form & Nero is correct again in saying that there's little information on it.

Again, Nero goes on and makes a lot of broad statements with little to no evidence to substantiate his claims.

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

• He can't solo the ToP, I agree. You've provided no evidence to suggest he's even Universe level (I will provide evidence for Adam of Darkness Darsh being possibly universal below) Although you concede that MUI Goku & 100% Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh in terms of power?

"Darsh would be around equal to these levels of power in his AoD form, so Dispel Bound would nullify any attacks the others attempted."

• You've provided absolutely no evidence that Adam of Darkness DS is on the level of MUI Goku or Jiren, who are Multi-Universal by feats & Low Multiversal by linear scaling which I've proven earlier is downplay.

"Even if they broke, they’d regenerate at such a fast rate even these guys couldn’t react fast enough to damage him."

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• You make this claim, which could be the decisive aspect which could make Darsh win, yet you don't provide any speed feats for the Dispel Bound's regeneration? In fact, judging by the calculation of Uriel & Darsh's combat speed feat in which millions of attacks & counters were exchanged per second, this is at least a hypersonic speed feat and trillions of times faster than light. In this instance, they were attempting to destroy one another's Dispel Bounds, and Darsh was successful in doing so. By scaling the

You've already admitted that against a stronger fighter, the Dispel Bound is irrelevant anyway, and by feats, statements, and scaling early on in DBS, Goku > Darsh.

CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS

Below are a collection of conflicting statements Nero has made throughout the blog, mostly pertaining to exactly how strong Darsh is (which, as the focus of his blog, should be given a definitive answer)

"Dark Schneider and why he DESTROYS Dragon Ball"

Oh, so you're stating that DS > Dragon Ball as a whole? Including the Xenoverse and Heroes continuities, with characters such as XV base Goku overpowering an attack capable of destroying infinite timelines?

"he’s actually surprisingly high in the tiers of DB."

Oh? So he's just high tier in Dragon Ball?

"What’s the scariest is that some of these spells already in his base form can kill some of the high tiers of GT and even Super."

Okay, so you've settled on him just being able to kill SOME of the high tiers of GT & Super, so you concede he can't solo DB?

"Well it’s clear he’d likely be able to solo the Tournament of Power with just Majin D.S. or DKL, save for maybe MUI Goku and FP Jiren."

You concede that MUI Goku & FP Jiren > DKL Darsh in terms of power. I agree.

"So, where does that leave Darsh? Could he beat the Angels? The Grand Priest? Zeno’s Attendants? In my mind, yes."

Adam of Darkness Darsh > Zen-Oh's attendants > Grand Priest > All Angels > All Gods of Destruction?

Again, I ask, what evidence do you have to support this claim?

"I feel he could definitely solo the DBverse."

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Your argument isn't even consistent with itself. Also, you're ignoring Tori-Bot who is at least NIGH OMNIPOTENT. He's the Author Avatar of Akira Toriyama and would have supreme and either true omnipotence to nigh omnipotence based on that alone and exists in/created (creation is roughly equal to destruction) multiple fictional verses such as Dragon Ball, Dragon Quest, Blue Dragon, Dr. Slump, etc (Source). He has directly shown the ability to manipulate fate and life due to his authority (Source ) as well as plot manipulation (Source ) & the ability to exist beyond & destroy the manga pages which he was existing upon (Source )He would also have every ability his creations have. So unless you believe Darsh is HIGH OUTERVERSAL, no. He isn't solo'ing Dragon Ball in the slightest.

WHERE DOES DARK SCHNEIDER TRULY STAND IN DRAGON BALL?

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So how powerful is Dark Schneider really?

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Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh & Uriel were capable of destroying the Black Abyss, a supermassive black hole the size of 50,000,000 stars. This is a Multi-Galaxy level feat for both of them. However they also destroyed the wall between Hell and Earth which was stated to require force comparable to the Big Bang. DKL Darsh was also able to tank this explosion, so he should be at least Multi-Galaxy+ in terms of durability.

Adam of Darkness Dark Schneider is above this, but how powerful is he? As Nero said, there is little to no information on Adam of Darkness Darsh, however we can extrapolate his potential power based on a single character statement and some scaling.

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Adam of Darkness Darsh was stated to have power "closest to God" when he recreated Uriel's sister from his memory. Meaning his is at least equal to if not stronger than Satan.

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If this applies to his attack potency, then he could be Universe level due to the fact that Satan was able to create a miniature universe and has been implied to be a universe Level threat. If this is correct, AoD Darsh is twice as powerful as DKL Darsh. Again, this is isn't explicitly confirmed.

Taking into account the fact that Darsh's Dispel Bound can be destroyed by beings stronger than him, they won't save him from the higher tier fighters. We've seen other characters who use the Dispel Bound such as Uriel have his Dispel Bound one shotted by Dragon Knight Lucifer's All Guns Blazing attack as well.

(Note: Macroverse in DB refers to the Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, & Hell all of which are comparable to our universe in size, as well as Frieza's Personal Hell, the Room of Spirit and Time, Grand Kai's Planet, the Anomalous Space, and the Supreme Kai Realm.)

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Goku & Beerus have a Fist Clash which was stated to be capable of destroying the Macroverse by Whis, Elder Kai, and Kibito Kai multiple times, and later on a Ki Clash which also nearly destroyed the Macroverse. The Macroverse would've been destroyed if Beerus didn't nullify the Ki Clash's explosion.

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Goku was confirmed by the Narrator to be capable of destroying the Macroverse (Mortal Realm, Afterlife, Heaven, and Hell are all comparable in size to our universe) with every attack, which is low end Multi-Universal.

SSJ Goku raises his power even further and Beerus states that his energy at this level would be more difficult to negate, meaning SSJ Goku > Macroverse Annihilating Ki Clash.

SSJ Goku THEN begins charging a Full-Power Kamehameha (which Beerus matches with a Blast of his own. The two blasts meld together into a High Density Energy Mass which Beerus makes even larger/stronger. SSJ Goku's KHH > SSJ Goku > Macroversal Annihilation.

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Super Saiyan Goku cannot stop the High Density Energy Mass and completely exhausts himself down to his base form. BASE Goku then holds back the High Density Energy Mass and cancels it out with a single strike.

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SSG Goku could create, react to and cancel out the shockwaves and light from his battle with Beerus, which crossed the Macroverse in seconds , which is septillion's of times FTL. He also surpassed suppressed Beerus when negating the Macroversal Ki Clash, which was going to wipe out the Macroverse. Beerus reacted to the explosion before it could expand, transcend dimensional boundaries, and destroy the Macroverse.

This is Goku in the FIRST ARC of Super.

Goku surpasses this level of power and speed in his base form by the Resurrection F Arc bare minimum due to Krillin & Gohan stating that Goku & Frieza's Battle is superior to SSJ Goku (vs Beerus), coupled with the fact that Base Goku was able to cancel out the High Density Energy Mass when SSJ Goku could not.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 109) is stated by Shin to have the greatest Ki he's ever felt, which would include Astral Zamasu who consumed Trunks' Timeline/Multiverse and was affecting parallel realities.(Note that Goku implied he could defeat Astral Zamasu if he had a Senzu Bean).

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A much weaker Goku's Ki can cross and shake the infinite World of Void in mere seconds. Goku's power is so monumental that his energy can reach across infinity and shake it in mere seconds. Jiren performed this exact feat with his presence alone.

UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) forces Jiren to exert more power than he did against SSB KKx20 Goku's Spirit Bomb, and then later on in the ToP, Jiren releases more and more power, and Goku grows strong enough to match a less suppressed Jiren in his mere SSB form.

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UI Omen Goku (Episode 110) is so fast that he can dodge Toppo's Justice Flash with such sheer speed that it appears he is merely walking. The very same Toppo who was capable of tagging SSB Goku in the Zen-Exhibition Match.

Suppressed Jiren (Episode 111) was confirmed to have power which transcends time. Again, SSB Goku later on in the ToP is capable of matching a less suppressed Jiren, and MUI Goku > FP Jiren.

An official episode summary/guide for Episode 129 has a statement from Beerus' perspective in which he states that UI Omen Goku MAY have surpassed him. Mastered UI Goku is far stronger than Omen Goku as he was able to defeat Full Power Jiren. (Translation)

Keep in mind that it's stated many times that Beerus can destroy universes and that if he was to battle Champa, they would destroy both the Sixth and Seventh Universes.

Nero even concedes that the Dispel Bound would be useless when facing someone stronger than him, and that MUI Goku & Jiren > DKL Darsh > Majin Darsh, but then states that AoD would allow him to defeat Goku & Jiren without really giving any reason as to why.

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Darsh has never shown any ability to tank Multi-Universe level attacks physically or with his Dispel Bound. Nor has he ever had any feats on a Multi-Universe level scale, as Goku has even early in Super.

As for Adam of Darkness Darsh's speed, we can calculate it a few ways. I will do a low ball and a high ball.

Because Post Time Skip Base Darsh is FTE to the Seraphs, we know he is at least 7,000x FTL if we scale combat speed to travel speed. Now, activating Judas Pain increases his power "millions of times" with no specific number. For the lowball I will assume it increases his power and speed at least 2,000,000x base and the high ball I'll assume is 10,000,000x base (if it was ten million times his base it would likely specify "tens of millions" instead of just "millions")

Lowballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Lowballed Majin Multiplier: 2,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 14,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 236,600,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang level and then becomes Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 473,200,000,000,000x FTL

Highballed Speed Calculation

Base Darsh: 7,000x FTL

Highballed Majin Multiplier: 10,000,000x base

Majin Darsh: 70,000,000,000x FTL

Dragon Knight Lucifer Multiplier: 16,900x

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: 1,183,000,000,000,000x FTL

Adam of Darkness Multiplier: at least 2x DKL if he was previously at 1/2 Big Bang Level and then goes to Universe level in his AoD form.

Adam of Darkness Darsh: 2,366,000,000,000,000x FTL

Even if you take the Gaara's statement in which it's said that DKL Darsh dealt infinite attacks and counters while trying to defeat Uriel (likely hyperbole as the effects of their battle only crossed roughly 53,000 light years in a short amount of time & the character who stated this has no feats of reacting to infinite speed) and scale him to that, suppressed Jiren's (Episode 109) presence crossed & shook the infinite World of Void in seconds, UI Omen Goku's (Episode 110) Ki crossed & shook the Infinite World of Void in seconds, and Toppo warped the entirety of the infinite World of Void in seconds, and MUI Goku & FP Jiren are far beyond that level of power.

Even with some of the spells which Nero didn't go in depth on such as Bloodstone (while in Dragon Knight Lucifer form) which allows Darsh to reflect attacks he's hit with at his target with equal force, wouldn't allow him to defeat Goku, as Goku's attack potency/destructive capability is equal to his durability as we've seen him tank his own Blasts during training many times and while on-guard he can only be harmed by beings on his level of power or above.

For another example, another one of Darsh's more OP abilities is Crow Bar, a spell in which Darsh banishes his opponent to a 13 layered magical prison that causes the soul of his opponent to be destroyed if they attempt to escape. Due to Goku's feats of resisting the Hakai while off-guard, True Golden Frieza tanking Hakai's from Sidra & Toppo, and Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta punching straight through a Hakai, even this won't work.

As for his Eternal Atoms, in which his body, soul, and spirit must all be destroyed in order for him to be killed, does that allow him to solo DB? Again, no. There are characters which could still defeat Darsh but be unable to kill him, however characters such as Beerus, Champa, GoD Toppo, Zen-Oh, and even Goku in the manga are capable of erasing the Body, Spirit, and Soul and would allow them to finish off Darsh for good.

With all of this information, this is DS' true power

DARK SCHNEIDER'S DESTRUCTIVE

Base Darsh (Post Time-Skip): Planet to Star Level

Majin Darsh: Galaxy Level

Dragon Knight Lucifer Darsh: High Multi-Galaxy Level

Adam of Darkness Darsh: Universe Level

So, would Dark Schneider solo Z? Most likely, excluding End of Z characters & Tori-Bot.

Would he solo GT? I don't think so, not with the Universal-Multi-Universal characters, excluding Tori-Bot)

Would he solo Super? Not a chance. DBS characters have Darsh beat in every category and can resist or overcome his greatest hacks abilities.

CONCLUSION

"People think that MUI Goku and FP Jiren are these omnipotent Jesus people who can solo fiction and just stomp anyone they fight, but that isn’t the case. Marvel and DC both have high tiers, not even top tiers, that would shit stomp DB as a whole, possibly even Bastard!! (I won’t get into it). We as a community need to learn to be humble and concede that yes, there are Supermans that beat Goku. There are many characters in fiction that beat Goku."

Nero's final message is this. We should be humble and admit that Goku can't solo fiction, which is highly ironic as Nero implied Darsh is above an omnipotent to nigh omnipotent entity, Tori-Bot, by saying he feels Darsh could "definitely solo the DBverse".

You've even implied that the high tiers of Marvel and DC Comics such as the Living Tribunal and the Spectre can only "possibly" solo Bastard!!? That sounds as if you're heavily biased towards Bastard!!. Goku cannot solo fiction, and neither can Darsh.

and no, I don't hate Bastard!! in fact, I've begun reading it recently and it's pretty good. (Also, does anyone recommend Jojo's Bizarre Adventure? Thinking about picking it up.)

I'll say it again, no ill will towards Nero, not at all, he seems like a pretty nice guy. If you'd like to debate me, we can do so in the comments or simply pm me. In fact, he's a pretty good artist. Keep it up.

Thanks for reading, I hope you learned something. My next post will likely be "The Multiversal Might of Son Gokū" in which I'll go in depth on Goku's power growth throughout Super. Until we meet again.

#SuperZenchuu

#DragonBallSuper

#Bastard!!

#CuratorReview

#LeaderReview

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Black BroHaM

Jesus

0 Reply 29 days ago

[ Goji ]

plz read JJBA, iz a good manga and the memes are gr8

also, nice debunk

0 Reply 04/07/18

Sunb@e :trident: §§ :trident:

Good job man, one of the only bloggers who's post I read through

1 Reply 04/05/18

:heavy_multiplication_x: Endeavour :heavy_multiplication_x:

He embarrassed himself badly

Read more

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EmperorZeech

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1 Reply 04/05/18

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plz read JJBA, iz a good manga and the memes are gr8 also, nice debunk

Good job man, one of the only bloggers who's post I read through

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#115  Edited By VarricPatermann

@littllejeikkie said:

and for the record, if it's current goku he can't lose.

He can. Bloodstone gg.

in my oppinion he should stomp

Goku can´t even kill or erase Darsh, so how should he stomp. Lol.

since it is composite he can use hakai to erase dark..

Nice, but wouldn´t work since Hakai lacks on feats to erase someone. Also Beerus said it can´t kill immortals, so nice try.

goku is way too much for dark to handle in raw power although it would be interesting to see if hakai works or not.

also we don't even know if ds attack would hurt goku.

Based on physical attacks, probably no. Based on a lot of spells, where Goku hasn´t shown resistance? Yes. No good resistance against bacteria, heat, curses, BFR, atomic destruction, etc.

plz provide feats for why you think ds would beat goku cause he can not!!!

He can, as much you dislike it.

@kyokyo

Already debunked that fanfiction in the other topic. Don´t know why people just copy and paste, if they don´t even know Bastard!! I can copy a wiki which wank Dark Schneider at high multiversal, if you wish, lol.

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dbmultiversex

Dark Schneider vs DBS verse (dispel-bound debunked)

darkcrysis11 darkcrysis11

1 year ago

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there is a joke. The concept using in bastard verse and the same concept of the 7 dimensions of conscience used in religion:

bastard verse:

Very similar to the configuration used in dragon ball where we have the creator (god) and the destructor (satan), if we use bastard logic goku has reached the 7th dimension, the seventh plane is the dimension of the creator of the universe (kaioshin realm). Ironically satan the destroyer was also superior the creator of bastard, just as beerus was superior to the kaioshins.

Yes, the the kaioshins has created the universe:

We already got confirmation by toriyama in regards to this, aswell as in early DBS. However in this very instance he specifically says “universe” and now people can stfu about it only being “planets and stars.”

Another strong evidence is the fact that goku ssg and beerus would not only destroy the universe 7, but also their dimensional planes like the makai, universe, astral plane (hell of earth, Forest of Terror, limbo…), hell, Emma realm, heaven, kaio realm and kaioshin realm.

It has no relation to the M-theory or relativity in all. By what I understood in bastard verse the universe was a Created universe within the spiritual realm, In the best of hypotheses the bastard universe was just a universe with laws of different physics, where in them they created the physical realm(our universe), as it explains satan, for this they Were considered as beings of higher dimensions(by the power)

In other words, humans are beings Artificial and angels / demons are beings native to the universe or if you prefer you can see in this way humans are the beings of a pocket dimension within a universe, just as in dbs we see that the mortal realm is a creation of the spiritual beings that create life, universes …. and that also destroys life or even the universe if the balance of power is broken the god of destruction acts. In dragon ball There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the spiritual world is much larger than the one in the world mortal, for example the planet heaven that is located in the afterlife in dragon ball is said to be the same size of the mortal universe

other example is the planet kaioshin realm:

and about the mortal universe? Well it is similar to ours, full of galaxies, stars, planets and also expands like ours

we discover that out of the universe there is an even bigger world and the universes are like crystal balls within the Zen universe.

a universe within an even larger universe, this kind of idea has been used a lot in works of fiction and in nordic/Hindu mythologies, it would not be different with dragon ball and bastard where,

I will clarify some mistakes about Dark Schneider. By what I saw and understood about Dark Schneider’s hax abilities make it almost impossible to kill him are by Cause of his dispel-bound, where even he lowering the guard he releases a barrier that prevents his death, an archangel himself said that if you overcome The speed of regeneration of Dark Schneider you can overcome your dispel-bound and kill it.

some say he does not Can be killed because of the barriers, but in reality the only thing the barriers are doing is preventing him from being defeated in a one-shooter, they are not stopping him from being hurt, beating, exploding, ripped … or Tortured to death. These barriers only work on someone weaker than him in a fight with someone several times stronger than him, a long-term fight he would die due to the drain of his vital energy or the overload his body suffers when trying to break the Its limits with judas pain, similar to goku using the kaioken beyond its limits.

/\

I thought they were endless barriers but I think I was wrong. Note that dispel-bound was disabled only by brute force and pure energy. He just did not die because at the last moment he activated the judas pain to increase his power.

The prolonged use of judas pain and their dragon zord was killing ds.

Judas pain are mystical weapons that increase Dark Schneider’s powers to galaxy-buster levels, as well as can be used to free satan from his prison. When he uses his dragon zord and combines with the 7 pain judas he goes to the multi-galaxy level buster when using his dragon zord that multiplies his power in something close to 130x times, since he could rival a uriel megazord that was Affirmed increasing uriel power by 130 times.

A guy in bastard has confirmed that can Dark Schneider be killed even using 7 judas pains.

Implying that overcoming the level of Ds power, only makes it easier to kill DS, as you saw dispel-bound was deactivated by brute power and he never again activated in his fight against uriel’s megazord.

In case to kill him you need to destroy ds quickly before it regenerates with dispel-bound or surpass it with higher gross power that can disable the dispel-bound.

Astral beings in bastard are just a mass of energy.

goku has already shown to have the ability to destroy astral enemies with the mind were created by Krillin fears in super dragon ball that can not be killed by physical attacks and Krillin showed the same ability that goku

Loading video

Loading video

Loading video

As you can see these beings are created by thoughts and can only be defeated when is combined the use of ki+mind to destroy them. For those who have not studied Eastern culture and religion spiritist believe that the astral is a dangerous place where your thoughts can be used against you and your fears can come to life and materialize, to survive in this realm it is necessary to have a strong mind and develop their spiritual powers, the intent of this episode was to show the dangers of the astral world.

a good skill is the hakai of beerus a power that beerus learned with angels that allows to literally erase the existence of a being or things in all thteir aspects: physical, conceptual, astral, Temporal, mental … same beings gags as arale would be destroyed by the hakai of beerus, since that ghost that beerus killed was a gag characters that even arale has problems, in this same episode whis his master said that there is nothing that beerus Can not destroy that is another reference to the hakai …

Loading video

If I remember even beerus stated that it could kill the immortal zamasu, that would only be possible with the destruction of the concept of immortality or if its powers were greater than the super dragon ball itself , just did not kill because it said that a god of destruction would be violating divine laws, just as another god killed another god is also a crime because it violates the laws of time-space, thus creating a new paradox, ie a new line of time. in dbs manga goku has learned the technique hakai to extinguish the existence of zamasu due to his “immortality”

ki and both physical and non-physical at the same time, even ghosts can be affected by attacks coming from ki users Vegetto already did destroy ghosts before of beerus in the original manga:

Daizenshuu has confirmed that these ghosts are made of the same material found in ghosts, gotenks and really impressive to be able to use ki in this way.

Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack

First Appearance: Chapter 490

Category: ki manipulation

People: Gotenks

Special Characteristics: An offensive technique that he acquired during his training in the Room of Spirit and Time. Spitting out ectoplasm-shaped ki, Gotenks creates doppelgangers of himself. This ki possesses its own consciousness, and can move on its own in obedience to Gotenks’ orders. Gotenks called this ki a ghost. In general this is a guided-type ki manipulation technique, but it shows a completely unique evolution, and even Piccolo couldn’t hide his surprise at this technique’s unexpectedness and effect. This technique was created from Gotenks’ childish ideas, but its force when it comes to actual fighting can be said to be that of a considerably high level technique. As you’d expect of Goku and Vegeta’s children, they discovered their own new and unique way of using ki. (Daizenshuu 2, p.217/Daizenshuu 4, p.112)

akira in an interview has already stated that ki is a metaphysical spiritual energy that combines mental powers with energy manipulation and through this combination you can do things like flying, increase your physical strength, create explosions, move object with the mind, manipulate matter … among other awesome feats of ki and akira says that this is the reason why goku is so strong.

What is the key to winning in battle?

Toriyama: In battle, the most important thing is the size of your ki, and your control over it. Ki as a concept of course includes such spiritual powers as energy [genki], courage [yūki], and right-mindedness [shōki]11. No matter how much you train, there are limits to physical strength, and the only way to overcome that is through ki. I think Goku was able to approach the mightiest warriors in the universe through strengthening his ki.

the fight of beerus vs goku ssjg was destroying the universe and its spiritual realms could destroy it, as goku and beerus were doing in their struggle where we even see that even the very afterlife where the spirits exist would not be spared, implying that ki is a kind of energy multi-Dimensional that can affect several dimensional layers and even the non-physical realms.

the narrator confirms that both goku and beerus has power to destroy the universe.

Other evidences of ki being a multi-dimensional energy is the fact that goku ki is felt throughout the universe even in kaioshin realm that is out of universe mortal:

which is only possible with the ki crossing the dimensions. we see the same phenomenon when goku was creating genkidama using the energies of earth beings to kill kidbuu.

Another interesting thing is the fact that goku can make genkidama using other sources of energy, even non-living and objects.

the genkidama that goku used in namek, both used the energies of living beings, planets and stars.

the daizenshuu confirm this

goku make the genkidama that used both ki of mortals and of spiritual beings, which unmasks the fact that goku has used only the energy of the earth, well it seems that it was not enough and had to use the energy of others planets and beings of others dimensions. this same time confirms that ki is not only present in living beings, but also in the dead and everything that exists in the universe.

exist in 2 dimension to same time or in several dimensions will not will save you as the dragon ball characters have shown many times. Hit for example could fight both with goku at the same time in two dimensions where one was his true body and another his false body, more due to the ki having the ability to travel by dimensions makes a hax techniques like these useless.

Loading video

jiren did the even with only his punches cracked the parallel dimension of hit, well as the manipulation of time of the same:

Loading video

Loading video

hit could freeze the time of beings that can same if moving within a timestop

Loading video

Now in terms of speed of combat and energy projection the dragon ball buu saga characters compared to DS? Before of dbs and then? several official sources have confirmed that both goku and fat buu could potentially destroy the planet kaioshin realm by having comparable or greater power levels to a beerus of 75 millions of years ago that would destroy the kaioshin realm that is 1/10 the size of the universe 7 that puts them in Galactic level or multi, that puts them in Galactic level or multi, and they are not even the most powerful characters in this saga.

With beerus existing or not at this time does not change much things, in the manga, anime and databooks they were indicated by that they have damaged the kaioshin realm and well could have destroyed. When they say beerus is going to destroy kaioshin realm, they were really talking about the kaioshin planet that is 1/10 the size of the universe and not the dimension itself, the kaioshins on anime/manga/databooks themselves were talking about kidbuu and goku ssj3 were destroying the planet they call kaioshin realm.

anime:

The old kaioshin who fled to another dimension because he feared that the planet kaioshin realm it might be destroyed:

and he was right goku and kidbuu were destroying the planet.

Loading video

we can note that the damage done to the planet has deformed the surrounding space, well as the planet. Then goku goes on ssj3 and continues to do more damage to the planet and kaioshin says they are destroying the kaioshin realm

Loading video

Note also that they were moving so fast that they crossed the entire planet several times. If we consider places like planet heaven that were said to be the size of the mortal universe and we know the kaioshin realm is indicated as having 1/10 of the universe (after life , mortal realm, realm demon …) this implies that they crossed multi-galaxies distances here that already surpasses even the made of speed of DS here that was faster than the Seraphs.

The same Seraphs who can travel faster than the speed of light, in travel speed they crossed the Black Abyss (a supermassive black hole) in roughly 4 years. Which is smaller than a galaxy.

we have such enormous stars in the afterlife that can illuminate the whole afterlife.

Exaggeration right? Is it if I tell you that akira when he finished the manga he intended to add all this information about the cosmology of dragon ball through anime / databooks:

source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-super-interview/

another awesome feat of speed that far surpasses made of goku ssj3 in kaioshin realm which also also be found in the anime in DBZ Episode 195 Goku in his base form and Paikuhan with his weighted Gi casually travels from dai kaio’s planet to Hell. This was Pre 7 year timeskip too.

Incase you have no idea. Dai Kaio’s planet is officially above heaven, So in a short timeframe Goku and Paikuhan travelled universal distances.

returning to talk about the kaioshin realm, in the manga was also mentioned that he was damaged:

the daizenshhu also mentions this event

“Kaioshin Realm

Area: Afterlife

Special Characteristics: The world that the kaioshin live in. It is a sacred place that not even the Dai-Kaio can easily visit. (Daizenshuu 4, p.73)

Anime: During the battle with Buu, it was destroyed more so than in the original story. Incidentally, before coming to the Kaioshin Realm, Buu destroyed Planet Alpha and appeared on the Dai-Kaio Planet as well. “

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11502&p=296074

interesting that this was before the akira interview and they were already indicated as having the power to destroy the kaioshin realm. if goku or buu were stronger than beerus, this was the 75 million years ago, in dbs when old kaioshin felt again the power of beerus, came to claim that he could destroy the universe with his current power.

Loading video

Another common misconception is that attacks using high and low temperatures can kill dragon ball characters.

say that DS techniques like Testament that freeze things to absolute zero could kill, would that be true? in dbs we see a character can freeze things to absolute zero and this did not kill vegeta:

Loading video

Another DS technique is Black Sabbath a nuke them with a 1 million degrees (Celsius btw) explosion. dragon ball characters have already survived explosive energy level planetm starm solar system, galactic, universal and multi-universal and ki already shown that has heat.

DB characters have numerous feats of resisting magic, telekinesis, poison, time-space manipulation, destruction of soul, mind-control…

coming back from the comparison of feats, as you may have seen before we know that ds is a galaxy buster and multi with the use of his dragon zord and judas pain, but is he really the strongest in his own verse? What our friends have not told you about DS is that the manga has been on a hiatus and we only know that satan is the main villain and that stated as being that could destroy the universe

plus he can do it in a one-shooter? , let’s go to what we know so far.

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dbmultiversex

Dark Schneider vs DBS verse (dispel-bound debunked)

darkcrysis11 darkcrysis11

1 year ago

Advertisements

there is a joke. The concept using in bastard verse and the same concept of the 7 dimensions of conscience used in religion:

bastard verse:

Very similar to the configuration used in dragon ball where we have the creator (god) and the destructor (satan), if we use bastard logic goku has reached the 7th dimension, the seventh plane is the dimension of the creator of the universe (kaioshin realm). Ironically satan the destroyer was also superior the creator of bastard, just as beerus was superior to the kaioshins.

Yes, the the kaioshins has created the universe:

We already got confirmation by toriyama in regards to this, aswell as in early DBS. However in this very instance he specifically says “universe” and now people can stfu about it only being “planets and stars.”

Another strong evidence is the fact that goku ssg and beerus would not only destroy the universe 7, but also their dimensional planes like the makai, universe, astral plane (hell of earth, Forest of Terror, limbo…), hell, Emma realm, heaven, kaio realm and kaioshin realm.

It has no relation to the M-theory or relativity in all. By what I understood in bastard verse the universe was a Created universe within the spiritual realm, In the best of hypotheses the bastard universe was just a universe with laws of different physics, where in them they created the physical realm(our universe), as it explains satan, for this they Were considered as beings of higher dimensions(by the power)

In other words, humans are beings Artificial and angels / demons are beings native to the universe or if you prefer you can see in this way humans are the beings of a pocket dimension within a universe, just as in dbs we see that the mortal realm is a creation of the spiritual beings that create life, universes …. and that also destroys life or even the universe if the balance of power is broken the god of destruction acts. In dragon ball There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the spiritual world is much larger than the one in the world mortal, for example the planet heaven that is located in the afterlife in dragon ball is said to be the same size of the mortal universe

other example is the planet kaioshin realm:

and about the mortal universe? Well it is similar to ours, full of galaxies, stars, planets and also expands like ours

we discover that out of the universe there is an even bigger world and the universes are like crystal balls within the Zen universe.

a universe within an even larger universe, this kind of idea has been used a lot in works of fiction and in nordic/Hindu mythologies, it would not be different with dragon ball and bastard where,

I will clarify some mistakes about Dark Schneider. By what I saw and understood about Dark Schneider’s hax abilities make it almost impossible to kill him are by Cause of his dispel-bound, where even he lowering the guard he releases a barrier that prevents his death, an archangel himself said that if you overcome The speed of regeneration of Dark Schneider you can overcome your dispel-bound and kill it.

some say he does not Can be killed because of the barriers, but in reality the only thing the barriers are doing is preventing him from being defeated in a one-shooter, they are not stopping him from being hurt, beating, exploding, ripped … or Tortured to death. These barriers only work on someone weaker than him in a fight with someone several times stronger than him, a long-term fight he would die due to the drain of his vital energy or the overload his body suffers when trying to break the Its limits with judas pain, similar to goku using the kaioken beyond its limits.

/\

I thought they were endless barriers but I think I was wrong. Note that dispel-bound was disabled only by brute force and pure energy. He just did not die because at the last moment he activated the judas pain to increase his power.

The prolonged use of judas pain and their dragon zord was killing ds.

Judas pain are mystical weapons that increase Dark Schneider’s powers to galaxy-buster levels, as well as can be used to free satan from his prison. When he uses his dragon zord and combines with the 7 pain judas he goes to the multi-galaxy level buster when using his dragon zord that multiplies his power in something close to 130x times, since he could rival a uriel megazord that was Affirmed increasing uriel power by 130 times.

A guy in bastard has confirmed that can Dark Schneider be killed even using 7 judas pains.

Implying that overcoming the level of Ds power, only makes it easier to kill DS, as you saw dispel-bound was deactivated by brute power and he never again activated in his fight against uriel’s megazord.

In case to kill him you need to destroy ds quickly before it regenerates with dispel-bound or surpass it with higher gross power that can disable the dispel-bound.

Astral beings in bastard are just a mass of energy.

goku has already shown to have the ability to destroy astral enemies with the mind were created by Krillin fears in super dragon ball that can not be killed by physical attacks and Krillin showed the same ability that goku

Loading video

Loading video

Loading video

As you can see these beings are created by thoughts and can only be defeated when is combined the use of ki+mind to destroy them. For those who have not studied Eastern culture and religion spiritist believe that the astral is a dangerous place where your thoughts can be used against you and your fears can come to life and materialize, to survive in this realm it is necessary to have a strong mind and develop their spiritual powers, the intent of this episode was to show the dangers of the astral world.

a good skill is the hakai of beerus a power that beerus learned with angels that allows to literally erase the existence of a being or things in all thteir aspects: physical, conceptual, astral, Temporal, mental … same beings gags as arale would be destroyed by the hakai of beerus, since that ghost that beerus killed was a gag characters that even arale has problems, in this same episode whis his master said that there is nothing that beerus Can not destroy that is another reference to the hakai …

Loading video

If I remember even beerus stated that it could kill the immortal zamasu, that would only be possible with the destruction of the concept of immortality or if its powers were greater than the super dragon ball itself , just did not kill because it said that a god of destruction would be violating divine laws, just as another god killed another god is also a crime because it violates the laws of time-space, thus creating a new paradox, ie a new line of time. in dbs manga goku has learned the technique hakai to extinguish the existence of zamasu due to his “immortality”

ki and both physical and non-physical at the same time, even ghosts can be affected by attacks coming from ki users Vegetto already did destroy ghosts before of beerus in the original manga:

Daizenshuu has confirmed that these ghosts are made of the same material found in ghosts, gotenks and really impressive to be able to use ki in this way.

Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack

First Appearance: Chapter 490

Category: ki manipulation

People: Gotenks

Special Characteristics: An offensive technique that he acquired during his training in the Room of Spirit and Time. Spitting out ectoplasm-shaped ki, Gotenks creates doppelgangers of himself. This ki possesses its own consciousness, and can move on its own in obedience to Gotenks’ orders. Gotenks called this ki a ghost. In general this is a guided-type ki manipulation technique, but it shows a completely unique evolution, and even Piccolo couldn’t hide his surprise at this technique’s unexpectedness and effect. This technique was created from Gotenks’ childish ideas, but its force when it comes to actual fighting can be said to be that of a considerably high level technique. As you’d expect of Goku and Vegeta’s children, they discovered their own new and unique way of using ki. (Daizenshuu 2, p.217/Daizenshuu 4, p.112)

akira in an interview has already stated that ki is a metaphysical spiritual energy that combines mental powers with energy manipulation and through this combination you can do things like flying, increase your physical strength, create explosions, move object with the mind, manipulate matter … among other awesome feats of ki and akira says that this is the reason why goku is so strong.

What is the key to winning in battle?

Toriyama: In battle, the most important thing is the size of your ki, and your control over it. Ki as a concept of course includes such spiritual powers as energy [genki], courage [yūki], and right-mindedness [shōki]11. No matter how much you train, there are limits to physical strength, and the only way to overcome that is through ki. I think Goku was able to approach the mightiest warriors in the universe through strengthening his ki.

the fight of beerus vs goku ssjg was destroying the universe and its spiritual realms could destroy it, as goku and beerus were doing in their struggle where we even see that even the very afterlife where the spirits exist would not be spared, implying that ki is a kind of energy multi-Dimensional that can affect several dimensional layers and even the non-physical realms.

the narrator confirms that both goku and beerus has power to destroy the universe.

Other evidences of ki being a multi-dimensional energy is the fact that goku ki is felt throughout the universe even in kaioshin realm that is out of universe mortal:

which is only possible with the ki crossing the dimensions. we see the same phenomenon when goku was creating genkidama using the energies of earth beings to kill kidbuu.

Another interesting thing is the fact that goku can make genkidama using other sources of energy, even non-living and objects.

the genkidama that goku used in namek, both used the energies of living beings, planets and stars.

the daizenshuu confirm this

goku make the genkidama that used both ki of mortals and of spiritual beings, which unmasks the fact that goku has used only the energy of the earth, well it seems that it was not enough and had to use the energy of others planets and beings of others dimensions. this same time confirms that ki is not only present in living beings, but also in the dead and everything that exists in the universe.

exist in 2 dimension to same time or in several dimensions will not will save you as the dragon ball characters have shown many times. Hit for example could fight both with goku at the same time in two dimensions where one was his true body and another his false body, more due to the ki having the ability to travel by dimensions makes a hax techniques like these useless.

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jiren did the even with only his punches cracked the parallel dimension of hit, well as the manipulation of time of the same:

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hit could freeze the time of beings that can same if moving within a timestop

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Now in terms of speed of combat and energy projection the dragon ball buu saga characters compared to DS? Before of dbs and then? several official sources have confirmed that both goku and fat buu could potentially destroy the planet kaioshin realm by having comparable or greater power levels to a beerus of 75 millions of years ago that would destroy the kaioshin realm that is 1/10 the size of the universe 7 that puts them in Galactic level or multi, that puts them in Galactic level or multi, and they are not even the most powerful characters in this saga.

With beerus existing or not at this time does not change much things, in the manga, anime and databooks they were indicated by that they have damaged the kaioshin realm and well could have destroyed. When they say beerus is going to destroy kaioshin realm, they were really talking about the kaioshin planet that is 1/10 the size of the universe and not the dimension itself, the kaioshins on anime/manga/databooks themselves were talking about kidbuu and goku ssj3 were destroying the planet they call kaioshin realm.

anime:

The old kaioshin who fled to another dimension because he feared that the planet kaioshin realm it might be destroyed:

and he was right goku and kidbuu were destroying the planet.

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we can note that the damage done to the planet has deformed the surrounding space, well as the planet. Then goku goes on ssj3 and continues to do more damage to the planet and kaioshin says they are destroying the kaioshin realm

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Note also that they were moving so fast that they crossed the entire planet several times. If we consider places like planet heaven that were said to be the size of the mortal universe and we know the kaioshin realm is indicated as having 1/10 of the universe (after life , mortal realm, realm demon …) this implies that they crossed multi-galaxies distances here that already surpasses even the made of speed of DS here that was faster than the Seraphs.

The same Seraphs who can travel faster than the speed of light, in travel speed they crossed the Black Abyss (a supermassive black hole) in roughly 4 years. Which is smaller than a galaxy.

we have such enormous stars in the afterlife that can illuminate the whole afterlife.

Exaggeration right? Is it if I tell you that akira when he finished the manga he intended to add all this information about the cosmology of dragon ball through anime / databooks:

source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-4-akira-toriyama-super-interview/

another awesome feat of speed that far surpasses made of goku ssj3 in kaioshin realm which also also be found in the anime in DBZ Episode 195 Goku in his base form and Paikuhan with his weighted Gi casually travels from dai kaio’s planet to Hell. This was Pre 7 year timeskip too.

Incase you have no idea. Dai Kaio’s planet is officially above heaven, So in a short timeframe Goku and Paikuhan travelled universal distances.

returning to talk about the kaioshin realm, in the manga was also mentioned that he was damaged:

the daizenshhu also mentions this event

“Kaioshin Realm

Area: Afterlife

Special Characteristics: The world that the kaioshin live in. It is a sacred place that not even the Dai-Kaio can easily visit. (Daizenshuu 4, p.73)

Anime: During the battle with Buu, it was destroyed more so than in the original story. Incidentally, before coming to the Kaioshin Realm, Buu destroyed Planet Alpha and appeared on the Dai-Kaio Planet as well. “

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11502&p=296074

interesting that this was before the akira interview and they were already indicated as having the power to destroy the kaioshin realm. if goku or buu were stronger than beerus, this was the 75 million years ago, in dbs when old kaioshin felt again the power of beerus, came to claim that he could destroy the universe with his current power.

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Another common misconception is that attacks using high and low temperatures can kill dragon ball characters.

say that DS techniques like Testament that freeze things to absolute zero could kill, would that be true? in dbs we see a character can freeze things to absolute zero and this did not kill vegeta:

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Another DS technique is Black Sabbath a nuke them with a 1 million degrees (Celsius btw) explosion. dragon ball characters have already survived explosive energy level planetm starm solar system, galactic, universal and multi-universal and ki already shown that has heat.

DB characters have numerous feats of resisting magic, telekinesis, poison, time-space manipulation, destruction of soul, mind-control…

coming back from the comparison of feats, as you may have seen before we know that ds is a galaxy buster and multi with the use of his dragon zord and judas pain, but is he really the strongest in his own verse? What our friends have not told you about DS is that the manga has been on a hiatus and we only know that satan is the main villain and that stated as being that could destroy the universe

plus he can do it in a one-shooter? , let’s go to what we know so far.

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