@darthjhawk: Ok, shit just officially got real.
@kallinalli: Dont reveal my cards pal, wait for the posts.
These are composite characters, if I jam everything into one post people are gonna get information overload. I will split all the abilities in to 2-3 posts.
So dont worry and dont call the shots too early.
First of all, I apologize profusely for the long delay in making this post. I had some personal stuff going on in rl which made things hell for a few weeks. Things are mostly sorted out as of now, so I am finally back after what was basically a mini hiatus, ready to debate the shit out of hypothetical scenarios featuring fictional characters. Ah, the good old Vine, how I've missed you!
So without any further ado, let's get to this...
Here we see Sanji outmaneuver Katakuri's jelly bean attack. What makes this notable is that Katakuri had already foreseen Sanji dodging the priest shooting Sanj and so attacked to deal with that. Consequently he is surprised when Sanji dodges this as well.
All fine and dandy, except the fact that Sanji himself is hyped up by the fanbase to be a better CoO master than Katakuri, as he is supposedly the CoO "specialist" of the Monster trio. Now opinions on Sanji's overall power level in the New World varies wildly, but either way, its a fact that Sanji is an adept CoO user as well, and he was almost certainly dodging those shots using CoO and not just raw speed, so your argument that CoO can be bypassed by raw speed becomes shaky.
While its true that CoO can be bypassed with a high enough speed gap, this method has become more and more obsolete against Katakuri level CoO.
Take for instance Katakuri vs G4 Luffy, who is exponentially faster than Sanji and arguably faster than Kata without CoO as well (since G4 could land multiple hits on a flustered Kata).
As you can see, Kata can precisely "see" where Luffy will be punching, and shape shift accordingly, even though Luffy is no slouch in CoO himself and G4 is one of the fastest characters introduced thus far.
Note how Sasuke says he could not catch Naruto's movements blitz beforehand. However with the Sharingan the user can actually see the movements down to the finest muscle tension, and as such can correctly place their body or counter in the perfect spot to strike back against their opponent. This would compensate for not only a speed disadvantage, but also supplement a speed advantage given that it will allow the user to see the opponent's counter before they can make it.
Cool enough, it seems invaluable for h2h based cqc. But what if there aren't any muscle movements to "read" ? Can Sharingan help the Shinobi out react say a quake punch from Whitebeard, or a barrage of lasers from Kizaru? Can it warn the Shinobi of unexpected counters by the opponent (as it warned Luffy of Mihawk's counter at Marineford) ? Just some of the ways true future sight (like CoO) is superior to mere muscle reading, no matter how fine or perfected, which even many highly trained real world martial artists can do.
Besides, Sharingan can be overcome by speed just as any other form of precognition.
But can it differentiate the auras? Clones are extremely hard to tell from the user as they divide chakra/auras evenly among the clones and the user. Even the Sharingan, Byakugan and the Rinnegan can not tell the difference. After all, Kaguya could not tell the difference between Naruto and his clones:
Ok, if there really is no difference in aura level between the original and the clones, then logically CoO shouldn't be able to differentiate.
But this raises a question, won't it drastically weaken the original as well to share chakra equally amongst so many clones ?
Even if you are not affected that is fine, the other elements are still privy to attack, especially water clones or most water style jutsu for that matter.
A common misconception. Its only the sea that has the characteristic depowering effect on DF users, not water in general. Luffy doused himself in water to fight Crocodile at MF, and the most recent chapter showed that sufficiently powerful DF users like Oven has no problem even affecting the sea with DF abilities.
Oven's DF boils the sea up in seconds, killing all the fish and severely damaging Bege's ship.
So with Ice and Snow powers I doubt water jutsus would affect me much.
The Invisibility factor is countered by the fact that with the Rinnegan, I can perceive invisible beings rather easily along with being able to sense them with my sage sensory abilities:
Ok fair enough, the Shinobi can see me.
Meanwhile the destructive attack can be countered or even overpowered by Tailed Beast Rasenshurikens that all hold an individual element along with the Truth Seeking Orbs. And if need be my character can also fly or even shift the dimension:
What about non-elemental attacks? Can Rasenshurikens or TSB's absorb the massively powerful shockwaves created by WB for example, or Fujitora's gravity attacks ?
Now that's over, its time to address the specific strategies and techniques of my opponents. I'll tackle the Shinobi first, since Brown hasn't laid out his full strategy yet.
When it comes to all of our characters we all have some insane offensive capabilities, and even more defensive capabilities. To help compensate for that, the Shinobi can channel one of the most underrated and lethal characters of his universe; Deidara.
Yup, Deidara is cool.
Here we see the how the attack works one way by creating a massive bomb that when explodes, microscopic bombs enter the bloodstream and destroy the targets from the inside from a cellular level.
Deadly indeed, but my defense here is OP Logias are made entirely out of their respective element, even internally.
For example look at Kizaru being blown apart by Apoo's explosion:
Notice how there's no trace of blood or even an intestine or two, inspite of the fact that he was cleanly blown in half ?
We see a similar thing when Marco and Vista cuts Akainu,
As you can see, Akainu's body doesn't have blood, only lava.
Unless you have haki, Logia types internal body is made of their element, so should be able to withstand Deidara's attacks.
Besides, we have Logias like Smoke (Smoker) and Gas (Caesar). How would C4 blow apart something like that?
What makes C4 so lethal is the deceptiveness of it. It sets up to be a massive explosion but when it goes off, makes it seem like a dud. The next thing opponents know, they are being vaporized from the inside out.
Observation haki hard counters this. As Luffy vs Mihawk at MF showed, CoO can warn you about potential deadly traps in the future (and its not even just a simple warning like Spider Sense, it actually gives you a full glimpse of the danger).
In addition in enters the bloodstream via inhalation, that means just breathing or talking will let this attack go off.
But if I have prior knowledge (which I would with CoO), I can fly out of range of the vicinity of the explosion. I can also protect myself using Bartolomeo's barriers.
Dust Release (塵遁, Jinton, Viz: Particle Style) is a combined nature transformation kekkei tōta, an advanced version of kekkei genkai, made up of techniques that mix earth, wind, and fire-based chakra to create pulverising force. The techniques of this nature initially form as a small three-dimensional object (e.g. a cube, a cone, etc.) composed of chakra that forms between the user's hands. When the technique is released, the form expands and surrounds the target. This nature allows the user to manipulate molecules, giving them the ability to disintegrate anything on a molecular level within the boundaries of the three-dimensional form.
First of all, though very lethal, Dust Release does have a charging period, and can be intercepted before use as we see in these scans:
Next, the Marine can use Shambles to easily escape the Jinton death cube, or better yet, switch places with the Shinobi or Shinigami.
1) Law can teleport freely within his Room.
2-3) Can switch places freely with people. Note how fast this ability can be activated, even Doffy got blindsided.
And Katakuri's future sight means I'd already know a few seconds in advance that the Shinobi is going to use Jinton, so I can deliberately let myself get caught up in the cube, then swap places with the Shinobi/Shinigami at the last moment.
Here we see how the Third Hokage note the dynamic and fluid shape transformation of the TSB's and how they turn targets to dust similar to Dust Realease, but stronger seeing as how they use all five nature transformations. It is essentially chakra in its purest form that will be a insanely powerful offensive and defensive tool.
Nature transformations in Naruto comprise Fire, Water, Wind, Earth and Lightning, right?
That still leaves certain elementals like Light (Kizaru), Darkness (Blackbeard) or just plain Gas (Caesar) that should be able to shrug off its effects. That's the advantage of having access to all Logia types, I can pick and choose elementals that would work best in specific situations.
So will powers like fire, lava, ice etc counter the TSB's ? (I ain't sure myself, just asking because certain Logias are extremely similar in their powers to Senjutsu users in Naruto).
Truth-Seeking Balls are extremely destructive, as already stated, capable of turning targets to dust in a similar manner to Dust Release. The orbs are similar to Tailed Beast Balls, and in fact have been used by Naruto Uzumaki to create his Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken.
Ok, quick question here, what is the strongest/most durable material these TSB's have vaped?
Coz I can use Jozu's Diamond fruit to get a body made entirely of diamond. Does TSB's have feats of affecting a material that durable?
Besides I also have access to Marco's incredibly fast regenerative abilities, on top of natural Logia regeneration:
1) No sells a massive barrage of lasers from Kizaru. Note that Kizaru was most likely not his usual trollish self here because he was attacking goddamned Whitebeard there. I know the Admirals don't have the most feats, but logically this is at least island lvl regen casually.
2) Regenerates having multiple holes shot through his body bu Kizaru again.
3) Unfazed by Akainu's full power magma.
So, raw durability wise, it seems to me that the Marine has a fair chance of tanking a TSB or two based on:
1)Logias like Light, Darkness, Gas, etc which don't come under Naruto nature transformations.
2)Extremely durable materials like diamond.
3)The ridiculous regenerative abilities provided by Logias in general and Marco's fruit.
When kept in their default sphere form, they can be used as high speed projectiles and have them return:
Well, then I can reverse them using Law's ability:
Law has redirected meteorites, so I don't think doing the same to TSB's would be a problem.
Taking advantage of the innate properties of Wood Releasewhich allows the user to force trees to grow on any surface at a rapid pace, the user creates a dense forest of flowering trees. During the forest's formation, the user can have the branch restrain any target(s) that tries to attack the user before the formation of the forest is complete. The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious. The user can also control where the pollen spreads so it does not affect them nor their comrades
So poison pollen huh? Kek, Magellan, the Poison man.
A technique developed by Hashirama Senju, where the user forces trees to grow on any surface, easily creating a dense forest anywhere they choose. A small plant can grow into a forest in an instant. By generating chakra, the user maneuvers it as they see fit for attack and defense; and furthermore, this immensely powerful technique even allows them to capture the enemy at the same time. With their tremendous life force, the trees can pierce through earthen walls, and extend their branches at their prey in an instant.
So essentially a physical attack right? Not much to worry I think. And a barrage of Akainu's magma fists (which would burn these to a crisp) or Aokiji's flash freezes would make short work of a killer forest.
A clone that is created by using chakra to alter the user's own cells into vegetation. The clones can be as simple in function as a wooden dummy for use in the Body Replacement Technique or completely mobile and able to perform jutsu.They have the ability to travel far from the user and are able to communicate with the original.Unlike other clone techniques, the wood clone doesn't disappear when hit and takes the damage to a certain degree. This, according to Madara Uchiha, makes it the perfect clone technique that only he with his dōjutsu was able to see through
Won't they be extremely vulnerable to fire based attacks though?
The other stuff, like the giant wooden statues or Senju regeneration will be addressed in time. But for the most part, I don't see a Wood style, which is heavily physical based doing much at all to the Marine. Remember he is completely immune to both blunt and cutting attacks, on top of Logia intangibility. Country sized wooden Buddha is cool, but all that size is for naught if you can't physically affect your opponent.
First of all, let me say that most of your giant summons, like the Rinnegan beasts, or Hashirama's Buddha or the Gedo statue seem primarily physical opponents and hence can't really harm me. That said, they can still be invaluable for defense and a nifty distraction,so I have ways of dealing with them.
Conqueror's haki gg.
There are several ways to deal with these creatures, first let me introduce Nico Robin's Hana Hana no mi.
This is a Paramecia that allows the user to replicate or sprout pieces of their body from any surface, object or living thing.
Somewhat like this...
Robin's limbs also have incredible strength. Even pre skip, much smaller constructs could restrain extremely strong opponents like Oz and Pacifistas.
1) Arm locks Oz, this is impressive considering Oz's ginormous size and strength.
2) Snaps a Pacifista's mouth shut with a single smack. These were arguably the strongest enemies the pre skip SH's faced.
That's how deadly the ability is with a character who can't even use haki, or can use all DF abilities !
Now I can't sprout limbs on my opponent's body (the most nasty application of the power, back snap gg :P), but I can sprout several of these giant limbs out of the ground to keep the summons at bay. Robin can't, but I can harden these limbs with Armament haki to exponentially boost their durability.
Now all I need to do is touch these summons with my limbs and stack an appropriate DF to finish the job.
Off the top of my head, I can:
Inject a large amount of extremely lethal poison (more on this in a moment) (Magellan)
Can suck the moisture right out of their bodies (Sir Crocodile)
Can Flash freeze them instantly (Aokiji)
Speaking of giant beasts, I have something of my own which your summons wouldn't like at all.
Meet Venom Demon: Hell's Judgement, Magellan's most powerful technique. This creates a building sized construct of highly corrosive poison, capable of killing folks on contact (even people like Blackbeard).
The poison is also corrosive enough to melt stone.
With this guy surrounding me, its practically suicide for your summons to charge towards me.
Lastly, I can actually control each of these summons like puppets with Doffy's parasite string:
1) Doffy can control the populace of an entire city with this technique.
2) Its strong enough to penetrate Jozu's diamond tough skin and restrain him. This is the same guy that casually ripped out and threw a small mountain sized iceberg.
I already discussed Moriah's Shadow fruit and its deadly applications in my opener. But with the multi-tasking abilities provided by Robin's fruit, it becomes a literal nightmare for my opponents.
Now I can't sprout limbs directly on my opponent's bodies, but I sure as heck can sprout limbs on their shadows ! After that, its simply a matter of cutting the shadow, and the fight's instantly over. This method would also be invaluable for crowd control, as Robin can sprout hundreds if not thousands of these limbs on a whim.
Also, needless to say, this is almost impossible to defend against without at least some prior knowledge. Robin herself can sprout her limbs and attack ridiculously fast.Just 1 feat:
Takes out Hakuba at almost point blank range with only a split second to react. She even says that speed is kinda useless against her powers.
To understand why this is impressive, remember Hakuba blitzed through an entire arena of New World colosseum fighters in an instant.
And this Marine's body is probably a billion times physically stronger than Robin's and with Observation haki to boot. Do the math.
Introducing two new DF abilities:
Though seemingly a gag fruit, the Horo Horo actually packs a deceptively powerful punch with its "Negative ghosts" who, as Robin explains, breaks the spirit of any person they pass through. These "ghosts" were shown to be intangible and physically invincible for all practical purposes. Kuma's DF is the only ability in the verse so far which could actually affect the ghosts offensively.
Drives Luffy, Franky and even freakin' Zoro nearly to the point of suicide in the space of a single panel. If you are remotely familiar with One Piece or even shonen protagonists' character in general, I don't need to explain why this feat is impressive.
Now this does look like a one shot ability, but I'll be honest and state its limitations up front:
This is another of those abilities which look perfectly innocuous until its too late. Its impossible to avoid without prior knowledge, and with all the chaos going on already in the battle field, I doubt either of my opponents would notice one pale apparition passing through them. And these ghosts are intangible and immune to conventional damage, so I don't have to worry about them getting one shotted by AoE attacks or collateral damage.
The Horo Horo is a beauty, but the fun starts when it works in conjunction with...
The power of this fruit in one word, is Soul manipulation. It allows the user to drag out the life force from living things, down to the last second of their remaining lifespan if required.
Mama drains 40 years off Moscato's lifespan, killing the poor fellow instantly.
Now OP doens't make absurdly broken NLF abilities, so there's a catch here: this ability works only if the target is at least somewhat afraid of Mama.
In one of the most epic moments of the series thus far, Jinbei no sells Mama's powers because as a member of the future Pirate King's crew, he has not the slightest fear of, in his words, a "mere Yonko".
This is an annoying drawback to the fruit, and normally would have made this particular ability useless in a debate, but with this Marine, I can easily circumvent this issue by using Mama's and Perona's fruits in conjunction.
I don't expect the composite Shinobi or Shinigami to be afraid of the Marine, but what stops him from breaking their spirits, and turning them into depressed sad sacks at least for a few minutes with Perona's fruit ? This in turn leaves them vulnerable to Mama's soul manipulation, and an easy victory.
Of course Perona can create an unlimited number of her ghosts, so this combo is again handy for crowd/clone control as well.
Here, I will discuss a few more DF's which can bypass conventional durability and be used to great offensive effect.
Allows the user to create any number of mirrors at will and use them for a variety of interesting effects.
It can reflect any attacks right back at the user.
It can be used to trap enemies inside a pocket dimesnion known as the "Mirror World". This dimension can also be accessed by the user as kind of a safe house.
Reflect Carrot's punch and traps her in the Mirror World.
Emits a beam of Noroma photons that slow down an opponent drastically (though the effect is only for 30 seconds). Any attacks on the affected during this period gets inflicted all at once when the interval ends.
First usage of the fruit, when Foxy uses it to cheat and slow down the SH's boat, followed by an explanation of his powers from Foxy himself.
Its drawbacks are that the user is not immune to the fruit's powers himself, and the beam can be easily dodged or reflected by mirrors.
But again this is one of those innocuous yet deadly attacks. Hard to predict or counter without prior knowledge, and makes it incredibly dangerous for my opponents to get anywhere close to me, and as seen in the previous scans, it works on non living objects, so can be used to slow projectiles like the TSB's.
Allows the user to create, manipulate or transform into gas at will.
Has several useful applications.
Gas Robe: Caesar attacks his opponent with poisonous gases.
Gastanets: Using flammable gases, Caesar creates an explosion.
1-2) KO's Usopp and Nami (in Sanji's body)
3) One shots Fighting fish, these species are powerful enough to capsize ships single handed.
Gastanets won't bother my opponents too much, but they are hard to avoid and quite spammable.
Land of Nothing: Caesar removes all the oxygen in the air around himself. Perhaps Caesar's deadliest ability, this chokes any opponent in the attack's range due to the lack of oxygen. Luffy got incapped in the span of a single panel when he was caught off guard. So yet another ability that's easy to get hit by without prep.
Magellan's and Foxy's abilities were good enough, but this virtually ensures that neither the Shinobi or the Shinigami would be able to get anywhere close to me. Same goes for their clones and summons.
Every girl's dream fruit, though I ain't expecting wither the Shinigami or the Shinobi to suddenly turn into creepy pervs in the middle of battle.
However, this fruit has other uses, like it can transmute people and objects into stone, even without any feelings of lust or even direct physical contact.
1) Slave arrows petrify enemies on contact
2) Even physical attacks from Hancock can do the same.
I have already discussed the enormous number of defensive buffs the Marine has, to recap:
Here I will discuss 2 more powerful defensive fruits:
This fruit allows Iva to use hormones for quick and easy stamina/healing boost.
They also allow to instantly change the gender of any person:
Changes the hunky Bellett into a siren instantly.
Looks goofy, but I bet my opponents won't like this happening to them mid battle.
I will cover this fruit's considerable offensive capabilities in a moment, but first, it allows near instant travel speed.
One of the fruit's more esoteric uses, it can be used to physically repel "pain" itself from bodies, condense it into a ball, and even give people's pain and damage to someone else.
1-2) He repels the accumulated damage from Luffy's body and give it to Zoro at will.
3) Luffy's injuries have vanished after he wakes up, making this a perfect healing ability.
The Marine isn't lacking in hax, but he has ample raw power as well. I discussed many of these in my opener, like the 3 original Admirals, Enel, Whitebeard and Law. Here are a few more.
Gives the user power over darkness itself.
Black Hole: Throws tendrils and waves of darkness around which sucks everything in the near vicinity, like its namesake.
1) Engulfs and sucks in an entire city.
2) His darkness is strong enough to restrain Whitebeard (albeit a heavily injured WB).
Liberation: After engulfing objects, BB can compress them and release them as projectiles.
1) This attacks casually operates at city level.
2) Throws out a bunch of random Marines.
Kurouzu: BB can attract opponents towards him with his powerful gravity.
Somewhat similar to BB, we have Admiral Fujitora's Gravity based fruit. It hasn't been named yet but is undoubtedly one of the strongest fruits seen thus far.
Like Madara, Fuji can instantly summon meteorites from space.
His meteorites aren't as big as Madara's (at least not yet), but they are spammable, and still powerful enough to completely vaporize a substantial chunk of land this deep.
His TK is also island level at the very least.
Last for now, Kuma's fruit has cool offensive uses as well.
Ursus Shock: Compresses a large amount of air into a small bubble and then releases it, creating a shockwave powerful enough to devastate Thriller Bark, an island sized ship and shake it to its core.
This attack was powerful enough to KO everyone on TB except Zoro and Sanji.
His signature move, he can insta bfr opponents large distances (like halfway round the world) just by touching them.
BFR's Perona from TB to Kuraigna island with a touch.
Since both the Shingami and the Marine are getting airborne, the Shinobi will stay closer to the ground. As soon as the Marine opens up his barrage, I use Amenotekijara and put the Shinigami in my place so that they get hit in my stead.
Cool, the Shinigami takes a hit instead of the Shinobi. I am fine either way.
hen after that I hit the Marine with a Super Tailed Beast Rasenshuriken combo. This should soften up both combatants or at the very least force them to use their strongest defenses off the bat and potentially exposing weaknesses to me. Then using Amenominaka, I pull the Shinigami into the Acid Dimension and leave them there, temporarily removing them from the fight.
The STBR is essentially a huge ass explosion right? Why would it affect me through the array of defensive buffs I have mentioned? I can transform into light or smoke and chill, I can escape into the ground (Senor Pink) or the Mirror Dimension (Brulee) temporarily.
This leaves me and the Marine in the main dimension, as such I summon two clones of each elemental type and use the as a distraction, with the wood clones using Susanoo. One more clone is off gathering natural energy for Sage Mode
I have ample crowd control methods to get rid of numbers quickly:
Just some of the ways. I don't think clones are going to last very long tbh.
Meanwhile I prepare two C4s and when the Marine is done dealing with the clones, I use another big attack or Wood Style Spam, and detonate C4.
Wood Style is an entirely physical attack and would do nothing to me. C4 has already been discussed.
Throughout the fight i have Kamui ready to respond to any counter attack.
Yeah about this, afaik there's a time limit on Kamui, and the user can't actually attack anyone in this mode, making it good for defense only. But I have ways of dealing with even this.
As I have discussed, CoO is no ordinary precog, but gives a full view of the future. The advantage over something like the Sharingan is that I can exactly know what my opponents are about to do, and counter accordingly. This is not just limited to h2h or move reading, but can warn me of deceptively dangerous abilities like C4 or the Shinigami's array of Espada/Sternritter hax as well.
The converse isn't true though, as I have several innocuous looking yet deadly abilities which are almost impossible to counter without prior knowledge, something my opponents have no means of getting.
This is a fight where a lot of hax is gonna get thrown around, question is who draws first blood. The CoO's unique advantage allows me to do just that, land the first crucial hit.
Even trying to get close to me is suicide
Let's face it, this fight will get cqc at some point, most fictional characters, no matter how powerful, mostly don't fight by standing and spamming random energy beams. Even stupidly powerful guys like Beerus always start with h2h.
This fight will be no exception, and my specific powerset means I without a doubt hold the overwhelming advantage in this regard.
I have the raw power and hax to put the other two down
OP is at a disadvantage here because the series ain't finished, so I am lacking access to a lot of fantastic feats that the likes of Luffy, Blackbeard and the others will perform EoS. Still, as I have laid down here, I have more than enough hax and power to put the other two down.
I don't yet see any counters for some of the combos I have discussed in this post, and WB's DF alone is enough to give most Naruto/Bleach characters a run for their money in sheer power, barring only maybe the Naruto god tiers.
The mother of all tanks
Brown Zeus hasn't really shown his hand yet, but I will reiterate, there isn't much in the Shinobi's arsenal capable of taxing the Marine's durability, regen and intangibility.
This goes for the Shinigami as well, but there are several layers of durability you need to bypass to truly harm the Marine:
Whew, that took forever ! The Shinigami will take the spotlight in my next post, but till then I hope you guys have got enough to chew upon. I am interested in how you guys counter my DF combos and how you plan to actually put the Marine down.
Thanks man. This is turning out to be too much fun.
@shirso: Also btw, don’t feel the need to apologize. RL can be crazy sometimes, shouldn’t have to apologize for taking care of business and yourself.
No worries.I have been on the other side and know how frustrating it can be if your opponent doesn't post for weeks on end.
@shirso: well it can be frustrating, but it takes shred of compassion to understand that life is greater than a forum. We are all busy. When one hast little time one has to be in the vine it's either not posting or typing quick replies with lot of grammar errors like me.
Like how darthjhawk said, no need to be apologetic.
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