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#1 Edited by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

COMPOSITE CLASH OF CLANS WIZARD

Represented by Major_Hellstrom
Represented by Major_Hellstrom

MCU DOCTOR STRANGE

Represented by GearSecond659
Represented by GearSecond659

RULES

  • Pre Thanos Fight Doctor Strange (1v1)
  • In Character, but Serious
  • Fight to K.O. or Death
  • Both Characters are in their Prime
  • Fighters start 20 Feet Apart
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#2 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by vsw (2933 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#5 Edited by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2775 posts) - - Show Bio
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Can safely say that I thought CoC was the last thing I'd see in a CaV. Tag After every post.

@chronicplane you might wanna see this.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Please please please tag after every post. This is gonna be hilarious.

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#7 Posted by Lan_Fan (16196 posts) - - Show Bio

Please please please tag after every post. This is gonna be hilarious.

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#8 Posted by Thoromdil (1887 posts) - - Show Bio

CoC? This is a dream come true. Tag after every post pls

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#9 Posted by Chronicplane (9399 posts) - - Show Bio

CoC? This is a dream come true. Tag after every post pls

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#10 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12000 posts) - - Show Bio

I can die in peace.

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#11 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28761 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome! Tag meh

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#12 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

Whelp, I've been radio silent for a little over a month now and haven't been too active since July, so let's see if I've still got it, shall we?

The Wizard!

No Caption Provided

Bio:

He doesn't really have a bio cause he is a Clash of Clans character...........so here are in-game quotes about him instead

"The Wizard is a terrifying presence on the battlefield. Pair him up with some of his fellows and cast concentrated blasts of destruction on anything, land or sky!"

Clash of Clans

“The most awesome man to ever set foot in the arena, the Wizard will blow you away with his handsomeness... and/or fireballs.”

Clash Royale

Also, in Clash A Rama (the official Clash of Clans web show, yes really), the Wizard is named Jacko and Winston (they are different characters). So I may call him Jacko sometimes.

Physical Ability:

While the Wizard isn't renowned for being strong, he does have decent durability and speed feats. He is durable enough to take a Wall Breaker's bomb blowing up on him point blank, unfazed.

Loading Video...

For reference, wall breaker bombs break down clan walls, which are thick. Here is an example of this happening.

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Different art style, same verse

So that alone should place the Wizard's durability above Strange's, I would say.

As for speed, here is a Wizard showing agility as he breezes through a training ground.

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Notice how he is able to block at arrow without looking and also a flame burst from a dragon. Proving that Wizards are arrow timers.

In another clip, we can see two wizard brothers dueling, in it, they are able to both dodge and counter each other's fireballs

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Damage Capability\Fireballs:

Probably his most popular and best ability (since it is the only one he has in-game), is his fireballs which gives him an impressive amount of damage capability, which is a factor that I think that the Wizard has over Dr. Strange.

For starters, the Wizard is shown to be able to one_shot the builder's hut with a fireball.

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He is also shown to be able to one-shot a wooden archer's tower.

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He can even destroy stone towers, as shown when he blasts through a Princess tower, though it may have already been damaged beforehand.

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So his fireballs are certainly potent forms of offense, but that may not even the most dangerous thing about them. What could be more dangerous, is the volume he can deliver these blasts at.

For instances, he can fire two blasts at once.

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Not only that, but he can also can rapid fire these blasts (yes, he is fighting Santa, don't ask).

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Ice Blasts:

Moving away from fireballs, we go to ice blasts. Now, ice blasts isn't a move the Wizard uses in-game but it is a spell he was able to learn in the animated shorts.

As an example of this ability, here he is firing ice balls into the sky

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He can also use this ability to freeze the ground, here he does so for him to skate on.

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But best of all, he can use this ability to freeze people. Like he did this giant

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Other Stuff:

The Wizard has a couple other abilities showcased in canon, but they may not all be of use in this battle so I won't spotlight all of them.

For starters, the Wizard has been shown the ability to conjure things.

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Create clones (these clones get OHKO by almost anything btw, they are like shadow clones)

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Fire "X-ray" blasts

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And cast the rage spell, which basically increases something's speed and damage

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Among other things.

Conclusion:

It may be too early to make claims, but from what I can recall of Strange, I don't think he has much over the Wizard. I believe the Wizard posses greater durability, damage capability on top of his ice spells, making the Wizard too troublesome for Strange to deal with. I am also unsure if Strange can even survive a single fireball from the Wizard, meaning he could very well OHKO Strange.

But, I eagerly await my opponent's post before I can mount any real arguments yet.

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#13 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: It's up.

@lan_fan said:
@crazychemist887 said:

Please please please tag after every post. This is gonna be hilarious.

If you expected gameplay mechanics and scaling, nope. There are legit feats here.

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#14 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

tag after every post

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#15 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Also, I feel like this should go without saying, but just to be safe. Strange can’t use his time stone hax here

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#16 Posted by Lan_Fan (16196 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like this is going to be a close match.

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#17 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: he won't use it in character since I think it was forbidden post Dormammu fight.

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#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: Yeah, but I’m just making sure. I don’t want any “hax GG no re” stuff happening here (although I could probably still counter it tbh).

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#19 Posted by FromBeyond (1046 posts) - - Show Bio

This is beautiful. Tag after every post please I can't miss this.

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#20 Posted by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom: didn't expect the gp mechs or scaling. It's still gonna be funny. I love me some coc.

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#21 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

that speed GIF killed me and I cant really explain why.

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#22 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

I’m pleasantly surprised that is this getting some attention, lol. When I use an unknown, I usually get crickets.

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#23 Posted by TheKinfing (11880 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag.

Online
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#24 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

OMFG, T4v like hell

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#26 Posted by Subline (8805 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize so many people here have played CoC.

Tag after each post.

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#27 Posted by Kevd4wg (12804 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28761 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom:

DOCTOR STRANGE | THE SORCERER SUPREME

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BIO

Stephen Strange was originally a brilliant yet arrogant neurosurgeon but suffered a nearly fatal car accident that left his hands crippled and unable to perform surgery. After conventional medicine and treatments failed to cure his hands Strange embarked in a search that led him to the Ancient One and was introduced to a new world of magic. He became a student of the Ancient One and mastered the Mystic Arts and now serves as one of Earth's protectors against extradimensional forces that threaten his universe (Source).

MAGIC

This category will by far be the most contentious part of the debate, and while I believe that the Wizard has more versatility than Pre-Thanos fight Doctor Strange, Doctor Strange's magic counters the Wizard's magic in several ways to the point that I'd give Doctor Strange the advantage in overall magical ability.

For starters, let's talk about the Wizard's main form of offensive magic: projectiles. This can range from fireballs to ice blasts, no matter the variant, Doctor Strange can counter it with his portals. Here is a prime exemplification of Doctor Strange doing so, creating a portal to defend against a mass of high speed projectiles (about the size of a fireball from the Wizard), and moving at significantly higher speeds than any of the Wizard's projectiles.

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Another form of defense Doctor Strange are his shields which have defended against blasts from Dormammu, a god tier of the Marvel Universe. I emphasize this aspect in particular because Dorammu's status as a god tier means that he should be vastly more powerful than people like Civil War Iron Man (which is considered to be one of Iron Man's weakest suits). Thus, we can scale off of Iron Man's energy blasts, which are powerful enough to blast through Winter Solider's thick metal arm. This feat in it of itself is superior to any feats from the Wizard, and when you upscale that to the power of Dormammu's energy projection and Doctor Strange's shields should hold up pretty well against anything the Wizard can throw at him.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Scan 1: Doctor Strange blocks multiple energy blasts from Dormammu

Scan 2: Doctor Strange blocks an extended blast from Dormammu for a period of time

Thus, through portals or shields, Doctor Strange can counter any offensive technique the Wizard can throw at him. Now, let's talk about ways Doctor Strange can take out the Wizard.

To not beat around the bush, the only real way for a Pre-Thanos Fight Doctor Strange to defeat the Wizard is with his magical constructs. He can form a variety of mystical weapons he can utilize in combat. His goto weapon is his whip, which provides him with good range in addition to a great profound amount of power. Here he uses his whip to hit an enemy (who is a few feet apart) about several feet away.

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Now I know what you maybe thinking: The distance is 20 feet and given the Wizard's projectile attacks, just how is Doctor Strange going to close the distance? Well, allow me to introduce you to the Cloak of Levitation. While it isn't magic per say, the Cloak is a viable way to close the distance, incapacitating the Wizard so Doctor Strange can tag him with his whip. And before you say that a casual arrow timer such as the Wizard wouldn't be tagged by the Cloak, here is the Cloak blitzing Drax the Destroyer, someone who scaling wise should be above the casual arrow timing tier of speed. The gif below also does a good job of conveying how the Cloak can incapacitate enemies.

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INITIAL THOUGHT

Overall, while the Wizard has more versatility with his magic, Doctor Strange's unique abilities counter anything the Wizard can throw at him. Doctor Strange can BFR any projectiles thrown at him with his portals or defend against them with his shield. He can even send his Cloak of Levitation at the Wizard to incapacitate him from the getco before using his magic constructs to finish him off.

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#31 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by TheTruthIII (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

jOiN mY CLn guYzzz, wE givE mAx elecTro dWAgoNs

Tag, tag, tag please

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#33 Posted by deactivated-5c522ab96172e (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5be85ba9d64f1 (712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659:

Rebuttals:

For starters, let's talk about the Wizard's main form of offensive magic: projectiles. This can range from fireballs to ice blasts, no matter the variant, Doctor Strange can counter it with his portals. Here is a prime exemplification of Doctor Strange doing so, creating a portal to defend against a mass of high speed projectiles (about the size of a fireball from the Wizard), and moving at significantly higher speeds than any of the Wizard's projectiles.

That would be a good defense, except for one thing. Jacko doesn't need to directly tag you to freeze you. My GIF from earlier didn't show the whole story, but when the Wizard froze the Giant in my earlier GIF, he actually froze the surrounding area as well.

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So he would just have to tag the floor surrounding Strange in order to freeze him.

Another form of defense Doctor Strange are his shields which have defended against blasts from Dormammu, a god tier of the Marvel Universe. I emphasize this aspect in particular because Dorammu's status as a god tier means that he should be vastly more powerful than people like Civil War Iron Man (which is considered to be one of Iron Man's weakest suits). Thus, we can scale off of Iron Man's energy blasts, which are powerful enough to blast through Winter Solider's thick metal arm. This feat in it of itself is superior to any feats from the Wizard, and when you upscale that to the power of Dormammu's energy projection and Doctor Strange's shields should hold up pretty well against anything the Wizard can throw at him.

Scaling does not work that way. The fact that Dormammu is featless can't be covered up by a statement (that you haven't even backed up), that he is "god tier", and I don't understand how that suddenly gives you the ability to just randomly use Iron Man feats. Also, just throwing it out there, but earlier in the movie Strange's shields couldn't even withstand regular attacks from Dormammu's henchmen.

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Thus, through portals or shields, Doctor Strange can counter any offensive technique the Wizard can throw at him. Now, let's talk about ways Doctor Strange can take out the Wizard.

Actually, let's not. See even *if* you did prove that Strange can defend against all of the Wizard's attacks, you certainly didn't prove how Strange will be given the time to counterattack. Let me explain what I mean.

To not beat around the bush, the only real way for a Pre-Thanos Fight Doctor Strange to defeat the Wizard is with his magical constructs. He can form a variety of mystical weapons he can utilize in combat. His goto weapon is his whip, which provides him with good range in addition to a great profound amount of power. Here he uses his whip to hit an enemy (who is a few feet apart) about several feet away.

Take a look at the GIF that you posted, it takes Strange time to make the whip and more time to strike. In that time Jacko could have fired a couple fireballs Strange's way, or better yet freeze Strange, and since Strange was busy forming his attack, there would be no way he could block in time, as you have not shown that level of reaction time from him.

Remember, the Wizard will be rapidly firing at Strange, he can even just apply a stream of fire in order to stop Strange from even attempting a counterattack.

No Caption Provided

This isn't just some art I found, it's official material from Supercell.

Now I know what you maybe thinking: The distance is 20 feet and given the Wizard's projectile attacks, just how is Doctor Strange going to close the distance? Well, allow me to introduce you to the Cloak of Levitation. While it isn't magic per say, the Cloak is a viable way to close the distance, incapacitating the Wizard so Doctor Strange can tag him with his whip.

I don't see why the Wizard doesn't just freeze the cloak in mid-air.

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And before you say that a casual arrow timer such as the Wizard wouldn't be tagged by the Cloak, here is the Cloak blitzing Drax the Destroyer, someone who scaling wise should be above the casual arrow timing tier of speed. The gif below also does a good job of conveying how the Cloak can incapacitate enemies.

This is also something you have to prove.

Overall, while the Wizard has more versatility with his magic, Doctor Strange's unique abilities counter anything the Wizard can throw at him. Doctor Strange can BFR any projectiles thrown at him with his portals or defend against them with his shield.

Yes, Strange has good staying power and would be annoying to beat. But he does not counter the Wizard. While Strange does have a good defense, as the saying goes "The best defense is a good offense", and the Wizard has Strange beat there, and he has him beat in attack speed. Meaning for the majority battle, the Wizard would just be constantly pressuring Strange to break with his attacks.

He can even send his Cloak of Levitation at the Wizard to incapacitate him from the getco before using his magic constructs to finish him off.

I have no reason to believe that the cloak can make it to the Wizard without being burned or frozen, after all the wizard has reacted to projectiles such as a dragon's flame burst without even looking. And without the cloak incapacitating the Wizard, Strange won't even have the time of day to attack the Wizard.

Conclusion:

For now, I think that the Wizard this duel mainly because Strange does not have the means to effectively take down the Wizard and defend against his attacks at the same time. While the Wizard has the versatility to pressure Strange with rapid fireballs, streams of fire, and AoE freeze spells to take him down. The Wizard could also just clone himself to double the damage output, and so they can attack from different angles.

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#36 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan said:
@crazychemist887 said:

Please please please tag after every post. This is gonna be hilarious.

@thoromdil said:

CoC? This is a dream come true. Tag after every post pls

@subline said:

I didn't realize so many people here have played CoC.

Tag after each post.

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#37 Posted by Lan_Fan (16196 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice.

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#38 Posted by universeichigo1 (1828 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... Tag after every post.

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#39 Posted by NiteLite (2722 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V and after every post.

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#40 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstrom:

REBUTTAL | MASTER OF THE MYSTIC ARTS

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That would be a good defense, except for one thing. Jacko doesn't need to directly tag you to freeze you. My GIF from earlier didn't show the whole story, but when the Wizard froze the Giant in my earlier GIF, he actually froze the surrounding area as well.

So he would just have to tag the floor surrounding Strange in order to freeze him.

I have several problems with this. For starters, I don't think you can say that through tagging the floor with an ice blast, the Wizard will freeze Doctor Strange. A good analogy that perfectly explains my point is the following: If I were to bomb a building (with one bomb mind you) and the surrounding area received damages as well, do you think if I bombed one part of the surrounding area (with one bomb) that the WHOLE building would be damaged? Part of the building would, but to say the whole building would be damaged is just hyperbolic. The same thing applies with ice blasts. Targeting one part of the surrounding area of Doctor Strange won't automatically freeze him on the basis that the Wizard froze the giant and the surrounding area, despite literally AIMING his ice blasts directly at the giant. That's just not how it works. And before you point out the minor differences between my analogy and the ice blasts, fundamentally they are the same: attacking a target directly and having the surrounding area effected as a result vs attacking the surrounding area and having part of the intended target effected as a result.

Now even disregarding this aspect, let's look at another thing: character. First, examining the Wizard's character, I doubt he would aim his ice blasts at the floor. Now I am not going to ask for something overly specific such as the Wizard freezing opponents through freezing the ground below them, but I will ask for something else. From what I have seen of the Wizard, he doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed nor does he seem like a strategist. In combat, he has consistently fire off his projectiles DIRECTLY at opponents, and even when that tactic didn't work, as seen when he was fighting against Santa, due to his stubborn nature, he doesn't change tactics. I see the same thing happening with Doctor Strange: when he opens a portal that counters his projectiles such as his ice blasts, I don't envision a change in approach from him. Now, on the off chance he does, Doctor Strange can still use a portal to counter the ice blasts, even if they are being projected at a different angle. Unlike the Wizard, Doctor Strange is competent intellectually and won't just let an ice blast hit anywhere near him, even if it is aimed at the surrounding area.

Scaling does not work that way. The fact that Dormammu is featless can't be covered up by a statement (that you haven't even backed up), that he is "god tier", and I don't understand how that suddenly gives you the ability to just randomly use Iron Man feats. Also, just throwing it out there, but earlier in the movie Strange's shields couldn't even withstand regular attacks from Dormammu's henchmen.

Are you implying that Dormammu's energy blasts are weaker than Civil War Iron Man's when it was implied by Feige himself that there is a massive power difference in the beings the Avengers (Iron Man included) fight and the enemies Doctor Strange fights.

"There are people inhabiting the same world that are stopping buildings from falling down, robots from doing this, aliens from doing that – these people in this movie are stopping inter-dimensional forces from wiping out all of reality," he told Collider.

Source

I am not saying Dorammu is universal or some crap, but going off of Feige's vision and portrayal in the narrative, it simply wouldn't make sense for a being who can supposedly wipe out all of reality to have lesser energy blasts than Civil War Iron Man. I mean he is easily one of the most powerful beings in the MCU. And that's not even going off of how Dormmamu was portrayed in the actual movie and what the official guide book says about Dormammu. Heck, in the guidebook, it says he is of infinite power. While this clearly isn't the case, it clearly shows the writer's intention and it would contradict what was established in the narrative if Civil War Iron Man had more potent energy projection than Dormammu.

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As for Doctor Strange fighting Dormammu's Henchmen, you said yourself that was earlier in the movie and before he grew to fully grow into his own as a Sorcerer.

Take a look at the GIF that you posted, it takes Strange time to make the whip and more time to strike. In that time Jacko could have fired a couple fireballs Strange's way, or better yet freeze Strange, and since Strange was busy forming his attack, there would be no way he could block in time, as you have not shown that level of reaction time from him.

Oh give me a break. He formed it within seconds and was able to form it before a group of athletic wizards were able to blitz him, so I think he would be more than fast enough to attack the Wizard. And you are ignoring the fact that I said that the Cloak of Levitation is the only way Doctor Strange can actually tag him with the whip given the distance.

Also, as for reaction speed, when he was a rookie, he was casually blocking arrow speed projectiles with his whips, so I don't see your point. There are far more impressive feats I can pull out too, so your point is moot.

Remember, the Wizard will be rapidly firing at Strange, he can even just apply a stream of fire in order to stop Strange from even attempting a counterattack.

Which will be countered by a portal.

I don't see why the Wizard doesn't just freeze the cloak in mid-air.

Because it will blitz him.

This is also something you have to prove.

BoS Star Lord was casually dodging energy blasts. Rocket Raccoon was dodging energy blasts from the Ravengers. Gamora dodged a close range energy blasts. I mean it wouldn't make sense for Drax, one of the most powerful Guardians, to not be capable of doing the same.

Yes, Strange has good staying power and would be annoying to beat. But he does not counter the Wizard. While Strange does have a good defense, as the saying goes "The best defense is a good offense", and the Wizard has Strange beat there, and he has him beat in attack speed.

Again, portals counters this. Attack speed doesn't mean jack if all of his attacks are being sent to another dimension. Not to mention, attack speed doesn't equate to reaction speed, so you have no feats that the Wizard can counter the Cloak of Levitation.

Meaning for the majority battle, the Wizard would just be constantly pressuring Strange to break with his attacks.

Sigh.

CONCLUSION

Overall, my conclusion still stands from my opener.

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#41 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Are we doing 3 posts or 2? Also, you do know that you tag me twice every time you quote that, right?

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#43 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Are we doing 3 posts or 2? Also, you do know that you tag me twice every time you quote that, right?

I feel like 2 will suffice. The Wizard doesn't have a lot of feats and I am not using a lot for Doctor Strange so let's just open this up for voting

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#44 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: But you were asking me for evidence of the Wizard using other tactics at the start of your post

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#45 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: But you were asking me for evidence of the Wizard using other tactics at the start of your post

Forgot about that. 3 posts it is.

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#46 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28761 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn that's fast guys.

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#47 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659:

Closing Rebuttals

I have several problems with this. For starters, I don't think you can say that through tagging the floor with an ice blast, the Wizard will freeze Doctor Strange.

I think I can, given that is what happens to the dragon, witch, villager etc, when the Wizard aimed at the Giant.

A good analogy that perfectly explains my point is the following: If I were to bomb a building (with one bomb mind you) and the surrounding area received damages as well, do you think if I bombed one part of the surrounding area (with one bomb) that the WHOLE building would be damaged? Part of the building would, but to say the whole building would be damaged is just hyperbolic. The same thing applies with ice blasts.

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

Targeting one part of the surrounding area of Doctor Strange won't automatically freeze him on the basis that the Wizard froze the giant and the surrounding area, despite literally AIMING his ice blasts directly at the giant. That's just not how it works. And before you point out the minor differences between my analogy and the ice blasts, fundamentally they are the same: attacking a target directly and having the surrounding area effected as a result vs attacking the surrounding area and having part of the intended target effected as a result.

Okay, so I can understand what this part means but I'm not sure you saw the entirety of the GIF before posting this. Because as you can see, at the end of the GIF the Wizard walks off and it shows how the Wizard effected other characters asides from the Giant.

No Caption Provided

This means that if the Wizard hit an AoE blast at the ground close to Doctor Strange, he should also be frozen since that is what happened in the GIF.

Now even disregarding this aspect, let's look at another thing: character. First, examining the Wizard's character, I doubt he would aim his ice blasts at the floor. Now I am not going to ask for something overly specific such as the Wizard freezing opponents through freezing the ground below them, but I will ask for something else. From what I have seen of the Wizard, he doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed nor does he seem like a strategist.

Well, if you want proof that the Wizard is an intelligent fighter, look no further than his accolades.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • In the Clash Cup, both Jacko and his brother Herman make it to the world cup finals for Clash Royale tournament, Jacko even carries his team of misfits to the finals.
  • In Wiz-Con, Jacko wins the Wiz Off, beating last year's champion.
  • In the Clashmaker it was revealed that Winston the Wizard was an 8 battle top deck veteran for the blue team.

Now, this should prove that the Wizard is certainly a top mage, and one of the best in the CoC universe. I would say that he would need to be pretty smart to achieve all of this, but if you don't believe me, the Wizard was also revealed to be the strategist behind the blue team.

Loading Video...

Winston also showcases intelligence when he uses a rage spell to make a timid barbarian carry the team in the semi-finals of the tournament.

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Also, don't forget that the GIF of the Wizard freezing the ground to skate on happened because the Wizard outsmarted the competition in a race.

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In combat, he has consistently fire off his projectiles DIRECTLY at opponents, and even when that tactic didn't work, as seen when he was fighting against Santa, due to his stubborn nature, he doesn't change tactics.

You are judging the Wizard's combat prowess based on a clip that lasts less than 3 seconds long. The Wizard's blasts are so powerful that he usually doesn't have to do more than keep attacking, he wouldn't just change tactics in 3 seconds just because it didn't seem to be working yet, especially when it has never failed him prior. For example, take a look at the clip below (it looks trippy, I know, it was from a 360 video), if you notice the Wizard Tower attacking the giant, you can see that the Wizard is able to take down the giant.

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For context, the Giant is the same type that can casually tank cannon fire and arrows in the CoC verse.

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So the reason why the Wizard didn't change tactics against Santa is that from experience he didn't feel the need to.

I see the same thing happening with Doctor Strange: when he opens a portal that counters his projectiles such as his ice blasts, I don't envision a change in approach from him.

No, the difference between Doctor Strange and Santa is that it is obvious that spamming fireballs at Strange won't do anything because Strange is using portals, unlike Santa. So while against Santa the Wizard had no reason to change tactics, against Strange he has a good reason to reconsider his approach as he would notice that his attacks are literally vanishing when they touch the portals.

Now, on the off chance he does, Doctor Strange can still use a portal to counter the ice blasts, even if they are being projected at a different angle. Unlike the Wizard, Doctor Strange is competent intellectually and won't just let an ice blast hit anywhere near him, even if it is aimed at the surrounding area.

And how would he stop Jacko from freezing the ground? Is Strange supposed to protect the entire area around him against an opponent who can attack quicker than he can defend?

Are you implying that Dormammu's energy blasts are weaker than Civil War Iron Man's when it was implied by Feige himself that there is a massive power difference in the beings the Avengers (Iron Man included) fight and the enemies Doctor Strange fights.

I'm not implying anything. I am stating that Dormammu is featless, and your attempts to scale off Iron Man in an attempt to cover up that fact is unearned. Also, Fiege was clearly just hyping up his own film, Dormammu was not a threat to "all of reality", he needed human henchmen just to bypass Earth's shields which is just not impressive.

I am not saying Dorammu is universal or some crap, but going off of Feige's vision and portrayal in the narrative, it simply wouldn't make sense for a being who can supposedly wipe out all of reality to have lesser energy blasts than Civil War Iron Man. I mean he is easily one of the most powerful beings in the MCU.

You are right, it wouldn't make sense. But the fact is Dormmamu is featless, so anything you can provide in terms of scaling is just based on assumptions. Regardless of how silly it is, we are in a debate which means that there is no room for assumptions, only arguments backed up by facts, and if you cannot prove that Dormammu should be that powerful then since this is a debate, we cannot assume that he is that powerful. Also, I would just like to point out that MCU Strange blocking Dormmamu's blasts is an anti-feat for Dormmamu, since Dormammu is featless and in his only showing fails to one-shot a novice sorcerer supreme's shields.

And that's not even going off of how Dormmamu was portrayed in the actual movie and what the official guide book says about Dormammu. Heck, in the guidebook, it says he is of infinite power. While this clearly isn't the case, it clearly shows the writer's intention and it would contradict what was established in the narrative if Civil War Iron Man had more potent energy projection than Dormammu.

As you can see, your only source for Dormammu being godlike and infinitely powerful is, as you say, "clearly isn't the case". So if Dormammu's stated power is clearly not what was shown, let me ask you this, why are you still using those untrustworthy statements in an attempt to support your claim? Yes, you say that this shows the writer's intent, but the writer's intent is not proof of anything.

To give you an example of this a comic book writer said that Luther Strode is "(roughly) twice as much as the world record holders are capable of"so Luther Strode, a guy who can ragdoll craters into the floor, is supposedly just twice as strong as real-world athletes, that was the intent at least, but clearly it has no bearing in actual debate (for those of you unaware, Strode is a popular high street leveler around these parts) especially since it is directly against actual showings.

Oh give me a break. He formed it within seconds and was able to form it before a group of athletic wizards were able to blitz him, so I think he would be more than fast enough to attack the Wizard.

That statement is self-contradictory. You say it took seconds yet later say that you think Strange is more than fast enough, but we already established that the Wizard can fire blasts rapidly, multiple times a second.

And you are ignoring the fact that I said that the Cloak of Levitation is the only way Doctor Strange can actually tag him with the whip given the distance.

First of all, saying that the cloak is the *only way* Strange can tag Jacko is very important to keep in mind for the readers. Also, I don't ignore your cloak strategy, I address it later.

Also, as for reaction speed, when he was a rookie, he was casually blocking arrow speed projectiles with his whips, so I don't see your point.

Arrow speed? Based on what? The guy threw that like a javelin, which is nowhere near arrow speed. 113 km/h vs 241.402 km/h.

There are far more impressive feats I can pull out too, so your point is moot

Well, if you wanted me to address said "more impressive feats" you should have posted them now because I can't reply to anything you post here on out since this is my agreed upon closer.

Which will be countered by a portal.

Which is the point, if Strange is busy with the portal, he is also busy not attacking. Also, if the Wizard fires a stream of fire, it makes the cloak even less likely of being able to fly into him.

Because it will blitz him.

Something you never proved. You said it will blitz Jacko cause it did Drax but your evidence for that is shoddy at best.

BoS Star Lord was casually dodging energy blasts. Rocket Raccoon was dodging energy blasts from the Ravengers. Gamora dodged a close range energy blasts. I mean it wouldn't make sense for Drax, one of the most powerful Guardians, to not be capable of doing the same.

First, you didn't even link to any feats. Second, that makes no sense, Groot and Drax are the tanks of the team, you can not simply say that they should also be as fast because everyone else is. That is like saying that because Wonder Woman, Superman, Aquaman and Cyborg are strong, Batman is too. We even see how Drax deals with an arrow esque weapon, and it doesn't look like he dodged it or caught it at all.

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Now you could say it was because Drax was caught off guard, but I could say the same thing about the cloak, I doubt Drax expected the cloak to be alive, much less able to incapacitate him.

Again, portals counters this. Attack speed doesn't mean jack if all of his attacks are being sent to another dimension.

The difference is, Jacko has a way to circumvent Strange's defense. Strange's only way, according to you, of attacking Jacko is through the use of his cloak which simply won't be effective enough to work.

Not to mention, attack speed doesn't equate to reaction speed, so you have no feats that the Wizard can counter the Cloak of Levitation.

I showed reaction speed. The Wizard casually blocked an arrow without looking. Which is definitely enough.

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Also, a flame burst from a dragon without looking. Also, might be cool to note that the dragon was able to OHKO a prince with his flames.

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Conclusion:

Getting to rep the Wizard was fun. I think I was able to prove that the Wizard was the more versatile and powerful of the two combatants, who should be able to pressure Doctor Strange into falling. Also, in terms of debate, I think my claims were a lot more supported and didn't require as much reaching. In the end though, while Strange will prove tough to crack, he will be defeated as the Wizard's offensive abilities and speed will just be too much, and we didn't even get into the Wizard's other spells which could aid him, such as the cloning and rage spells.

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#48 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Posted by haoalchemist (6196 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#50 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18036 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm, my links to Strode disappeared. But I’m on mobile now so I can’t fix it, whatever.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111144184/3737636-strodeweak.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11127/111278558/5956971-luther+vs+jack+%284%29+vol+2+issue+4.png