CaV: Chris Redfield (Nick) vs Ultimate Captain America (SFW)

I think he's a 10 tonner at least regardless of what Fizz says (and I'm pretty sure it's been ages since he said that anyway) and I'm pretty sure you know the feats that's based on.

Just a personal gripe I have anyway...I do think Ultimate Peter is underrated on the vine and most certainly too strong for Chris to even think about contending with but I suppose I shouldn't let that affect my vote.

@nickzambuto: @highaccuser: all Spider Man clones Are comfortable 6 toners by bio. Pete best feats are in the 9 ton range with clear life and death scenario. So at best he is a 9 toner one can argue.

Bios are worthless, and I'd say his feats are 10 tons but maybe I'm just splitting hairs with a 1 ton difference.

@nickzambuto: ok i'm gonna read everything don't worry.

This was awesome. I honest to god can't decide on a winner, but this is great CAV.

I agree. I actually think this would be a great match up of a battle if it were to actually happen. I'm glad two viners who discuss battles and look at them in ways most others are unable to on the battle forums were the ones discussing these two characters squaring off.

While I've seen both of these characters get called for over-exaggerating a lot, I really didn't see this happening in the thread. I think both NickZ and Fizz both were representing them how they truly see them, and these are the two most knowledgeable people I know on both of these characters (along with a wide roster of many other characters when it comes to these two). Some might disagree with them, but you have to at least respect each argument being brought forth here, even if you don't agree with one or the other. For me, I found a nice middle ground between what was being described between both of them.

After reading these, I can confidently say that I think it's a great fight, and really fun to think of how it could go down. I don't think there is anything more to ask for when reading a CaV. I like discussions like this where I get more caught up in how a fight between these two characters could actually happen, and forget about who is doing a better job debating. That may not necessarily be what people in a CaV are looking for when they ask people to vote, but hopefully both Nick and Fizz take this as a compliment of their job of giving knowledgeable opinions to what could happen in a fight of these two awesome brick-sh*t-houses that can beat down basically anyone they meet in their own respective universes, and finally being forced to face an equal. Nice job fellas.

I'll let my vote go unvoiced for now because I think there is well enough reason to cast a vote for either side. Tag me if you need a tie-breaker.

Wow that was awesome haha. I vote for @sirfizwhiz, as I felt he had a stronger base for his feats and proved a greater level of consistency in Cap's strength. I also saw a few (miniscule) flaws in @nickzambuto's argument, that were tiny, in the context of such a great debate sealed the deal for me. Kudos to both though, this was really really awesome and inspiring to someone trying to get into CAV's tourneys.

@tparks: Awwww shucks. I still think our Gunslinger three way is one of the most comprehensive debates I ever had. lol.

@spector_rand:CaVs and Tourneys are alot of fun if you meet the right opponent. You should try it.

@sirfizzwhizz: Yeah haha, i've only been in a few but i really enjoy them. I'm trying to get as many new people on board as I can

I laughed at the end there guys. I can't vote one over the other. Great job guys

@nickzambuto@sirfizzwhizz I'm kind of torn here as well. At first when I was reading this, I couldn't help but applaud NickZ and his level of effort, time, and organization that he put into his argument. He truly showed a superb amount of dedication showing each feat and the application of each. Comparing his debating style to SirFizzWhizz's, I felt like he definitely did a greater job putting details and explanations into his posts. And after reading the first two posts, I was tempted to vote for Nick on that merit alone.

My only problem is that Nick was fighting an uphill battle from the get go. When I read the title, I couldn't help but feel NickZ got way in over his head. And while I was truly impressed with how Nick debated with what he had, I definitely felt like there was a misrepresentation of many of the major feats Nick was highlighting on, as well as a lot of lowballing on Ult. Captain America's feats.

The Illuzija feat I thought was the biggest misrepresentation. For one thing, the scene seems vague as to what actually happened. At one moment Chris is all wrapped up, and yeah he's squirming a bit but to to be honest the snake doesn't seem to be squeezing him that tight, just looking at it objectively. And in the next moment he just slips right under him as if he was lose. I know, snakes constrict. But to be honest this really just seemed like a gameplay mechanic for the player to respond and escape a dramatic scenario rather than to capitalize on Chris's supposed superhuman strength. I mean just looking at this, despite all your reasoning, I don't get the impression in the slightest that this is a showing of superhuman strength. And I get a very strong feeling that if I were to ask the developers of the game if Chris escaping the snake's grasp was a showing of monumental strength, that they'd say no. Secondly, even if it was, Chris didn't really even lift the snake, he really just slipped under it and it didn't seem to use a lot of strength to get it over his head. Yeah some strength might have been required to actually get lose from the snake's grasp, but Chris getting a small portion of the snake's body over him doesn't really sound as impressive as breaking an entire 20 tons Hulk-style as you seem to imply.

And thirdly (this applies to a lot of your feats), as SirFizzWhizz pointed out, Chirs is human. He's not a super-soldier. He wasn't gifted with Spidey powers or godlike strength. He is simply a human being who has received no enhancements. Don't get me wrong, you totally have me believing that Chris Redfield is peak human. No doubt about it. You have me believing that Chris's reflexes are a little faster than Cap's actually. Ultimate Steve doesn't have any real bullet dodging feats and Chris does; you called that out and you played it nicely. But there's really absolutely no reason or explanation why Chris should be a 9 tonner or even a 5 tonner. Bullet timing I can believe, since it happens all the time to fictional peak humans. But having super-soldier strength for no reason? I think that'd speak ill of the RE writers' abilities. And considering the franchise has gotten six games, I really don't think it's the writing that's the problem, but rather your overestimation of Chris's abilities.

All in all, I think I'm going to give my vote to @sirfizzwhizz. I was really tempted to give it to Nick for the outstanding effort he put up, but I give my vote to the person who convinced me his character would win. And all SirFizzWhizz really had to do was prove that Ultimate Captain America had better feats and he did. I think Nick did prove that Chris's reflexes were better, but SirFizzWhizz proved enough that Ultimate Steve's were at least comparable. Other than that, SirFizzWhizz showcased feats that simply trumped Chris's. And unfortunately, because of that, I give my vote to @sirfizzwhizz. If it means anything though, even though @nickzambuto didn't convince me Chris would win, I still think he proved himself as the better debater. Sorry Fizz!

@fetts: That's awesome, thanks a ton. I just want to point out, I don't think Chris's status as a human should effect his capabilities. Krillin is a human. Does that mean he also needs to be restricted to the level of a Batman or a Daredevil? Krillin can blow up planets and he has received no enhancements or mutations, just training, that is how the Dragon Ball universe works, it operates on a different definition of peak human than Marvel or DC. Same with Resident Evil, Capcom portrays Chris as a super soldier, regardless of the fact that he is unenhanced. A regular peak human can't beat up monsters or throw a boulder. Jill, Sheva, and Claire are more like regular Marvel/DC peak humans and they get one or two shotted by Wesker, whereas Chris is the only one who can fight Wesker for prolonged periods of time. It's about the portrayal and intentions with the character, there are no "rules" in literature, the author can make their characters anything they want. Capcom chose to make Chris a super soldier, regardless of the fact that regular humans can't achieve that level, because Resident Evil is just fiction and in that universe it is possible.

@nickzambuto: Karate Kid is human too, but training and knowledge can grant superpowers. Same for people like Luther Strode, or Iron Fist, or Krillin. All are super humans thanks to the powers and abilities aquired from their knowledge/martial arts. They cease being human at that point.

If you agree than why did you bring up Chris being a human as a point against him?

@nickzambuto: becuase Chris is not the same as them. They have super powers. Chris cannot manipulate chi, Ki, Mark of Cain, ect like the mention above. The skill granted hem these powers, Chris has mundane real world swat skill and no super powers.

But clearly not, when Capcom writes him as a super soldier.

@sirfizzwhizz: got to go with your argument...you got my vote...bravo to both of you though...