@wolfrazer: It was when they all fought Hulk. It's like, Ultimates #5 or something.
CaV: Chris Redfield (Nick) vs Ultimate Captain America (SFW)
@ghostravage said:
@sirfizwhiz: You won so shh...
@ghostravage: bitch you still mad after over a week......damn.
Alright so I'm pretty late lol. But I intend to finish this now.
I agree with most of what you're saying and don't feel it is necessary for me address each and every feat you posted just to rip it apart and try to pick out minor context that was never meant to be looked at. That would just be redundant and tiring, especially when I really do agree with you for the most part.
I feel like with everything that has been presented so far, Chris and Steve clearly have identical physical abilities. They are both super soldiers who have surpassed the standard super soldier level. They are above characters like 616 Captain America or Deathstroke, and are in the same tier as each other. They can both perform at the same level, and do the same things. Any physical difference between the two is minúte, so this will come down to skill, tactics, and will power... all three of which are also nearly identical. So hmm. Stalemate maybe?
For this post, I am just going to reiterate a few things from the previous posts in order to refresh people and hammer the physical equivalence between the two characters home, and also go over Chris Redfield's extremely underrated record of thriving against overwhelming odds and ability to fight against enemies far surpassing himself on-paper yet succeeding anyway, and why that should logically transfer over to defeating Captain America, who does not surpass Chris and is not an overwhelming foe, and therefore Chris's extreme combat skill will reign supreme.
Let's start off simple and just take another look at the boulder feat. This right here is all that's necessary to prove Chris and Ultimate Steve are operating within the same tier of physical ability. Characters like Black Panther, Deathstroke, Solid Snake, or 616 Captain America would not be able to do this. Only Chris Redfield and Ultimate Captain America are portrayed as possessing this level of strength and still classifying as a 'super soldier' instead of fullblown metahuman.
I mean just look at this, and really pay attention, because this feat gets downplayed a lot despite being STUPIDLY incredible. Chris doesn't just move the boulder a bit or lift it a few feet off the ground -- he straight up launches it all the way across the stretch of land and into the lava. Off the top of my head, without going into the blatant superhumans like Spider-Man, the only other super soldier who could do this is... Ultimate Captain America. But he could not perform any better than this. Both characters have their highs and lows as all characters do, but in the end, they even out to about this level. The strength required to throw this boulder is the perfect indication of the unique tier that Chris and Ultimate Captain America are on.
The same goes for durability. I'm not sure if I already brought this up yet, but Chris is actually tough enough to survive getting hit with RPG missiles at extremely close range, and more or less completely tank it and continue fighting immediately.
By the tone of his voice Chris wasn't really injured by the blast at all, more... irritated.
RPGs irritate Chris.
...People have the nerve to say this guy is getting beaten by like friggin Daredevil or something??? Ugh OK moving on.
The other time Chris tanked an RPG blast is actually more so a tremendous showing of his super soldier skill and instincts, where while in the middle of zip lining between buildings, Chris and his partner Piers are hit with an RPG, seemingly a direct impact, which destroys their line and sends them both falling, yet through all of the chaos and commotion Chris is able to immediately recover and land on a stack of pipes sticking out from the rooftop, and simultaneously reach out and rescue Piers, who hadn't even been able to react yet. The weight ends up being too much for the platform and it collapses, but Chris immediately saves Piers by throwing him onto a nearby balcony, before saving himself again by latching onto another pipe below.
All of this went down in less than five seconds. Piers Nivans, a bullet timer, possessed neither the recovery speed nor reaction speed to even realize what was happening until it was all over. Chris saved them both completely by himself, showing incredible resilience, as well as very quick thinking, reflexes, and environmental awareness all at once.
The skills displayed here might not pertain directly to a one-on-one battle with Captain America, but they are valuable skills nonetheless. I'd go so far as to say this whole package is one of Chris's best feats, and one that Captain America has no real counter for.
But the main point is, an RPG missile left Chris virtually unscratched, supporting his being on a tier above the usual super soldier and being equal with Ultimate Captain America.
Now if you want more traditional reaction feats such as bullet timing, Chris does have a few pretty choice feats in that regard as well. Let me preface this by saying that after reading a lot of Ultimate Cap material, I think he and Chris have equal speed and reflexes, however if we're talking simply feats, Chris does come out superior as he has at least one clear-cut cutscene bullet timing feat and another QTE bullet timing feat from a master marksman, one arguable bullet timing feat, multiple feats of outreacting other bullet timers, and two feats of dodging projectiles exponentially faster than regular bullets which Ultimate Cap has never come close to. Chris's feats of dodging projectiles are just as good as any peak human, and terribly underrated in fact.
I already posted these before, but here they are again just to reinforce Chris's reflexes.
This is quite a far cry from blocking tranquilizer darts with a huge shield that covers half your body. Now Steve's AK feat is really great, but what's more important is combat speed. And once again in that department, Chris has the much better, much morequantifiable feats than anything Ultimate Captain America possesses. He's been able to react to, tag, and dodge Wesker multiple times. I don't think Ultimate Captain America would be able to react to Wesker, as he has never encountered a character who is so fast that they appear invisible. Not even Ultimate Spider-Man or Wolverine come close, and Cap has admitted that the latter would be enough to beat him in a fight. But Chris's reflexes are sharp enough to outreact Wesker at least once in every single encounter they've had. This includes tagging him with strikes, dodging him while severely injured, and even dodging him with his back turned showing incredible senses and reflexes.
Ultimate Captain America is far from having the speed to compete with Albert Wesker, that's just a fact.
By far Chris's greatest showing against Wesker was at Spencer's Mansion, in the flashback scene with Jill, where he was actually able to go hand-to-hand with Wesker on even ground for a brief period of time. At this point Chris was the first one to attack Wesker and has been beaten multiple times, but keeps coming back. Jill was basically oneshotted and not present for 70% of the battle, and in fact it is Chris who rescues Jill by coming from the side and breaking Wesker's grip before he can crush her neck, and then engaging Wesker solo for a few seconds while she recovers. It's a very short altercation, but if you pay attention, it is extremely impressive. Chris throws a barrage of strikes and has Wesker stuck on the defensive, actually forcing him to block his final two blows. This fact wiped the smirk right off Wesker's face, and he immediately gets serious and delivers a heavy blow across Chris's cheek. However, rather than get sent across the room like most other people would, Chris is able to disregard the damage and move with the momentum of the blow and use it to power his own reverse roundhouse kick back against Wesker, which Wesker is surprised by and also forced to block.
This brief altercation is a great showing for Chris's combat speed and skill. They both easily match his absurd strength. I mean, just forcing somebody to block might not sound the most glamorous, but when you consider the fact that Wesker is like 20x stronger and faster than Chris AND a highly trained master of martial arts on top, giving him a modicum of difficulty through sheer skill is impressive.
The fact that Chris was able to keep up with Leon S. Kennedy in hand-to-hand combat despite being ambushed is enough on its own to prove without a doubt that Chris has the skills to keep up with Steve. Again, Chris's style might not be the most fanciful, but that's because it focuses on sheer efficiency in defeating an enemy. Chris is a tank and he knows it, so his fighting style revolves around completely dominating his opponent so that they can't even fight back. We all know how superhumanly quick and agile Leon is, but he never gets the chance to put those skills to work because Chris stays close and keeps his hands on Leon almost at all times.
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And I think I've posted these already, but here are more showings of Chris's skill and speed in hand-to-hand combat against superhumans who outclass him;
You can see Chris utilizing Judo and Muay Thai moves, using his enemies' motion against them and disarming weapons, targeting exposed weak points. We can discern from Chris's melee moves that he is actually a master of at least eight or nine different martial arts, and he utilizes all of them regularly.
But back to the Leon fight, what that scene shows that is more important than the H2H skill, is the fact that Chris always prioritizes going for his gun. When Leon gets him in a headlock, Chris shoulder throws him over his head and uses the distance to draw his pistol. Unfortunately Leon is just as skilled as Chris and had the same thought, they draw at the same time and reach a stalemate... However... Captain America doesn't have a gun, does he...? So if this was Steve fighting Chris instead, when Chris throws him and Steve tries to recover with an acrobatic roll, that will leave him open for Chris to open fire at point blank range. I mean Cap does have his shield but... is he really going to be fast enough to intercept the bullets right after rolling? Especially when Chris is so fast on the draw? I mean he and Leon matched each other right there in that cutscene and this is how fast Leon can draw:
He's facing down an enhanced super soldier who already has his gun aimed and is moving to pull the trigger, yet before that enhanced super soldier can react, Leon draws his grappling hook, and throws it with such speed and accuracy that it knocks away his gun.
This is beating a superhuman on the draw under the worst possible circumstances with every factor going against him. Think about how much skill that requires.
Chris did the same thing but to an even greater superhuman, Albert Wesker. Chris beat him on the quickdraw fair and square, and in the heat of the moment, he thought quick enough to aim for Wesker's fingers. Chris knew that a headshot would do minimal damage to Wesker, and he was in immediate danger with Wesker about to shoot him, so Chris very tactically aimed for Wesker's fingertips in order to make him lose his grip on his weapon instead. Merely tagging a speedster like Wesker is impressive enough, Chris combines it with quick thinking and draw speed.
So with all this in mind and Ultimate Captain America's severe lack of showings against skilled marksman (we'll talk about Hawkeye in a minute) you'll have to understand when I doubt his ability to keep up with Chris's aim.
Chris has other feats that prove he's too fast for Steve as well, like shooting the mask straight off of superspeed Jill's face in the middle of combat, and beating peak/superhuman Carla Radomes on the draw.
The context of this scene is important. Chris is in mental turmoil because Carla turned all of the men under his command into B.O.Ws, and in this scene she is verbally taunting him and he is resisting the desire to kill her. She is also twirling around her grapple gun and about to make an escape. Chris's rifle is pointed at her head, but Carla is a bullet timer and she's confident she can escape the situation, yet in an instant Chris shifts his trajectory and instead shoots away her grapple gun, leaving her stunned and completely defenseless.
If we look at a still image of the scene, we'll see that the bullet impacted squarely underneath the gun's handle. A perfect shot even when Carla was wagging the gun around.
The only thing saving Steve is the Ultimate Hawkeye scene. Everybody knows what I'm talking about, when Clint unloaded on Steve with tranqs, but Steve was fast enough to bring up his shield and actually smack all the tranqs back at Hawkeye. But we really need to remember that those were tranq rounds, not bullets. Hawkeye's accuracy can't make the projectiles move any faster, so as long as he was on trajectory, it literally might as well have been anybody shooting. Since Ultimate Cap is not a concrete bullet timer, he is simply very skilled and knows how to deal with guns and bullets, this makes me doubt whether he can really keep up when Chris is a physical super soldier too and also holds an entire arsenal of weaponry.
I think I'll just end it here. I really don't even know if Chris wins, I just wanted to prove that it was pretty close. This was a great debate, I'm glad to finally put it behind me lol. Let me know if any of these gifs don't show up.
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@nickzambuto: damn, one month later lol. I will get to this when I can.
I just want to go on record and say I called it:
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