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#1 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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Composite Castlevania Dracula

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Marvel Dracula

Rules

Death or KO

Start 10 feet apart.

Standard Gear.

Battle here.

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#2 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Looks good , I don't know much about Marvel Dracula so if you would like to start that's fine with me.

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#3 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver:

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Vlad the Impaler was a warlord, a general, and one of the finest warriors in his day until that is when he died. In death he found new power from the Hell Lords themselves. He became the Lord of Vampires, gaining abilities and hax like changing form, summoning creatures, controlling the weather, super stats, and very powerful hypnosis abilities. His greatest feature is his durability. Due to his curse, he can never truly die, and only very specific ways will keep him down for a KO. Due to these abilities, Dracula has survived, and continues to rule his many vampire kingdoms across the planet. Powerful enough that even Doom takes note, and wishes to hinder Dracula anyway he can.

To start this debate off lets touch on some stats.

Strength

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Dracula breaks in half easy Blade's durable sword.

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Morbius, a casual 20 toner who rivals Spider Man himself, is easily overpowered.

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Rips apart Deadpool with ease.

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Both encounter throws Colossus himself with great force. No amp was stated or shown for this. In the 80+ tons.

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Dracula Here is able to kick down a steel vault door, at least a foot thick, with ease.

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Dracula while weaken from the Garlic, and Holy Water gas gathers the strength to one punche his way out of a steel lift.

He is easily in Spider-Man high end of feats here. I feel he is for sure as strong as CD (Castlevania Dracula).

Durability

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Dracula is hit with straight lightning till he catches on fire. No effect.

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Hit with sonic waves that liquefy human beings easy. In lots of pain, but his body holds firm.

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Here Dracula tanks a large explosion that would kill over an hundred humans easy, but only injures Dracula.

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Dracula is set on fire by a holy cross, and unable to heal the damage. Then he is shot dozens of times with exploding wood bullets that shred his face, skull, and body. Then stabbed by the Teal Wood knife of Blade over and over. All of this is specific damage Dracula is weak too, and he tanks all these attacks to keep chugging for the fight. Beating Blade again easy after all this.

These feats are just raw durability. The showing of how much punishment and damage he can tank in energy and physical abuse without including his hax as shit healing factor. IMO his durability is over all better than Shadow Lords Dracula, but with composite feats I will wait to see.

Speed

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Stated Faster than the human eye can see.

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Multiple times Dracula at point blank range has reacted and change forms from Crossbows, and Arrows.

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Dracula moves as a blur at running speeds. outpacing the explosions.

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Dracula in bat form dodges multiple lightning strikes aimed at him by another supernatural power.

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Blitzes Werewolf by Night. Leaving an after image.

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In all these scans, Deadpool was hopelessly outclass in speed. Blitzed easy as Dracula left behind after images.

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Dracula here reacts and beats Spitfire. Spitfire was a speedster mutant who gain even faster speed as an Vampire, and Dracula matches her speed and beats her fine.

Neither side is out speeding the other. This should be pretty solid for each other on the speedy side of things. So no real argument here of advantages.

Skills

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A lot can be said about him here.

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Wisdom who leads the British superheros states Dracula is one of the most tactical geniuses of the time.

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Multiple showings of his skill in human form with injuries against people trying to kill him. None of his Vampire powers, just relying on his human skill.

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Disarms Black Knight himself in a sword duel, and mortally wounds him in 3 moves. One of the top swordsmen in Marvel.

Dracula has some damn good combat skill. Dracula's recent bio rates him as a 4, as he is a master swordsmen, and proven fighter of his time as a human as Vlad the Impaler. Adding in the shown stat feats with the skill feats paints a character who could physically dominate a close combat fight.

So your up mate. Let the games begin!

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#4 Edited by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio
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Gabriel Belmont, later known as Dracula and Dracul, is a knight from the 11th century and the main character of the Castlevania: Lords of Shadow saga.

He was originally a member of the Brotherhood of Light, an elite group of holy knights who protected and defended the innocent against supernatural threats. But after defeating the ultimate evil, losing everything he loved on his quest, and obtaining immense power from an ancient demon, he became the most powerful vampire in history, known as Dracula, and started a war upon the world and the God he had once served.

Passive Attributes

  • Summoning his Demon Castle: Being the true master of the Demon Castle and having a connection with Chaos, Dracula's resurrection allows the castle to appear anywhere, and anytime he desires. As long as Chaos exists, the castle cannot be destroyed.
  • Immortality: Thanks to Walter's soul, Dracula is as good as immortal. Although he CAN be killed, he will simply be reincarnated, after either 100 years, although premature reincarnations are not uncommon.
  • Invulnerability: Dracula possesses superhuman endurance. Typical weapons would almost certainly not harm him, similarly to Walter or they would inflict minimal damage. However, certain weapons and measures, such as Dracula's own poweror the Vampire Killer are capable of harming and killing him.
  • Eternal Night: It is always nighttime in the area surrounding Dracula's Castle.
  • Instant Army: Dracula's dark powers affect even the dead, and are able to create personal "golems" out of skeletons of various kinds, a variety of elemental golems, and can also animate inanimate objects, such as armor or furniture. However, this instant army is not as powerful as summoned demons from the Demon Realm.
  • Chaotic Realm: The Chaotic Realm is the realm of the source of darkness, and only Dracula can enter this specific realm. Dracula and his reincarnation, Soma Cruz, is the only one recorded to ever enter the Chaotic Realm. This realm also sports demons of various kinds that will bow to Dracula's will.

Transformation

  • Shapeshifting and Teleportation: Dracula favors confusing his enemies by teleporting to bats or black light to appear anywhere and catch his victims off guard. He also favors changing into multitudes of vampire bats with a large one as his main bat or into clouds of mist for long range teleportation. In Dracula X Chronicles, it's said he can transform into a bat, wolf or mist. For shorter movement, Dracula favors "walking" by floating on a runic circle that lets him move very slowly. He has been known to turn into:
    • Bat: He turns into many bats for teleportation or for offensive moves and transformations. It was called Bat Moon once and allows Dracula to turn into a swarm of bats to overcome his enemy.
    • Wolf: Dracula has been shown to transform into a wolf for charging attacks in Dracula X Chronicles.
    • Mist: Dracula has used his mist form to evade certain death during his confrontation with Christopher Belmont.

Movement

  • Teleporting: Dracula's favored strategy, used to confuse his enemy while he casts a myriad of offensive spells. Some versions of his teleporting has him blending to black lights, others turns him into many bats, but the function and strategy is one and the same.
  • Demonic Wings: Dracula can turn his cape into wings that can allow flight in a one on one battle against an agile vampire hunter. His wings allow fast flight and can be use as a melee attack by swiping the cape in its wing form. Dracula rarely does this, however. Simon Belmont (Chronicles version), Richter Belmont (Dracula X Chronicles, Third Form), Hector (first form and transition between the two battles) and Shanoa are humans that have seen Dracula's wings.

Dominance

  • Power of Dominance: Dracula's primary ability allows him to absorb defeated monster's souls and enslave them. This power was the one that Soma Cruz, Dracula's incarnation, inherited along with Dracula's soul. While Soma can only summon monsters for a short amount of time due to his low magical power, Dracula can fully utilize this ability with infinite power from the stream of Chaos he commands.
  • Obedient Animals: Creatures of the night are sensitive to the flow of darkness and are attracted to its source. Those attracted will not hesitate to serve the commander of darkness. Some of these creatures are bats, wolves, owls, slimes, ravens, crows, black panthers, worms, caterpillars, toads, frogs, and many other smaller but numerous creatures have entered and lived in Dracula's presence.
  • Power over Humans: Dracula's power has been shown to have an effect on human behavior. Dracula's Curse, in fact, drove many humans insane, and sent them into a murderous rage. Dracula has also shown abilities to control humans without possessing them, for example, in Harmony of Despair, his charm spell, when making contact with a female, would temporarily strip them of their will and put them under his control.

  • Blood Draining: Dracula, being a vampire, can bite and drink the blood of his victims. His spell Dark Metamorphosis can enhance his blood draining ability. He can also drain his victims' blood by merely touching them with his hands.
  • Magic Mastery: Dracula is a powerful magic user, easily capable of summoning fireballs, flaming meteors, beam attacks, and swarms of vampire bats and wolves to name a few. Even his extremely powerful "Demonic Megiddo" attack requires little effort on his part to perform. Added with the fact that he commands Chaos, no demons can match Dracula for his throne, except for a few. No vampire hunters beyond the Belmonts can match his powers either. Some notable spells are:
    • Hellfire: Fires a wall of fireballs from his cape. Another version causes flames to erupt from the floor.
    • Dark Inferno: Fires magma fireballs from his cape. Unlike Hellfire, the meteors produced by this spell cannot be destroyed.
    • Dark Metamorphosis: Boosts Dracula's Blood draining ability. He can bite an enemy or grasp them and drain their life. He rarely does the latter though.
    • Soul Steal: A spell that many fear. Soul Steal is used by Dracula and to kill and absorb their energy for Dracula's use. The one version of the spell has an area of effect around the caster. It can effect multiple victims multiple times in one cast. Another version drains the life out of Dracula's victims by a mere touch, which is why many fear this spell. It is also referred to as Life Steal.
    • Blood Storm: Perhaps as a way of mocking of the Belmonts' powers, Dracula, when facing Richter Belmont, could make it rain blood, and being caught in it causes heavy damage.
    • Meteor Shower: During the events in Circle of The Moon, Dracula displayed various powerful magic spells, one of which summons a barrage of flaming meteors to rain down from the sky onto his enemy.
    • Demonic Megiddo: Dracula's ultimate dark spell. Two version of this attack are in existence. The first, and more common version has a shorter charging time and allows Dracula to charge demonic runes that become a giant black fireball. Dracula can throw it to his victim and will incinerate his victims with demonic fire. The second version is a gigantic explosion, with Dracula as its nucleus. The explosion radiates from him, dealing heavy damage with high likelihood of killing his opponent. However, the second version requires a longer time to charge, giving enough time to either escape or defeat him before he can use it while draining Dracula's health. On Order of Ecclesia it is shown that Dracula can sustain it for as long as desires, while in Harmony of Despair its effect is shown to cease.

Gear:

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Shadow Whip: A supernatural whip-like weapon, which Dracula creates from his own vampiric blood. It retains many of the moves and attacks of the Vampire Killer and serves as his main weapon. The Shadow Whip manifests as an eldritch red gauntlet on Dracula's right arm.

Chaos Claws: Dracula's Chaos Claws are burning red gauntlets and are use similar to Shadow Magic. They inflict extra damage and can channel powerful flame eruptions from the ground. After acquiring the Primordial Chaos gem, Dracula is able to fire Chaos Bombs. The description of the Fire Cover attack indicates that the Chaos Claws' energy projections allows Dracula to burn enemy souls.

Void Sword: This mystical blue sword can be spawned by Dracula, capable of stealing life and healing him. Works similar to Light Magic. The sword can use adaptable powers like wave blasts, slashes of Void magic and a freezing power as well as a swirling vortex of wind during which the sword gives off electric blasts. When he recovers the Primordial Void Gem, he can fire Void Projections.

Transformations/Forms

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Dragon Form and Mist Form

Strength

Pushes a 25-30 ton battering Ram
Pushes a 25-30 ton battering Ram
Stops Stone Golems Weapon in full swing and overpowers it
Stops Stone Golems Weapon in full swing and overpowers it
Tears enormous chains from the Leviathan
Tears enormous chains from the Leviathan
Strikes an Monster hard enough to knock the acolyte out of it and smash the wall behind him
Strikes an Monster hard enough to knock the acolyte out of it and smash the wall behind him
Pulverizes a Golem with his strike
Pulverizes a Golem with his strike

Speed:

Casual FTE dodging and Leaps 50 ft in the Air
Casual FTE dodging and Leaps 50 ft in the Air
Blocks Magic Lightning with Sword
Blocks Magic Lightning with Sword
Dodges Satan Possessed Alucard at Supersonic Speed
Dodges Satan Possessed Alucard at Supersonic Speed
Blitzes Satan as he leaves Alucards body
Blitzes Satan as he leaves Alucards body

Gabriel Blitzes Agreus the Older Brother of The God Pan then crushes his massive skull with one hand

Durability

Stabbed in the back and ragdolled by demon while weakened
Stabbed in the back and ragdolled by demon while weakened
Resists Magical Lightning
Resists Magical Lightning
Unbothered by Fire from Medusa
Unbothered by Fire from Medusa
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Tanks massive building explosion and fall just fine
Tanks massive building explosion and fall just fine

That should for physicals and abilities in my first post, now onto a few small counterpoints.

Morbius, a casual 20 toner who rivals Spider Man himself, is easily overpowered.

Morbius from feats I've seen and his guidebook entry operates around 2 ton level consistently, do you have feats to back this 20 ton claim up?

Rips apart Deadpool with ease.

Gabriel could replicate this easily

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Both encounter throws Colossus himself with great force. No amp was stated or shown for this. In the 80+ tons.

This is not an 80 ton feat Colossus weighs 500 pounds in armor form the second one looks like Dracula merely used his momentum against him

As far as speed is concerned I feel Gabriel has the edge here, not a huge edge but not one to be dismissed

Marvel Dracula has some good durability but I feel Gabriel has the edge here as well

I can't exactly say how they compare skill wise, Gabriel was a well trained Holy Knight before he became Dracul, admittedly taking Black Knight down in a sword fight is impressive. But Gabriel is immune to the effects of common weapon damage in any event and I don't think he will struggle to hit Dracula in his own right.

That's enough for my intro You're up

@sirfizzwhizz

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#5 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: For whatever reason the video clip for the speed feat with Agreus would not work in my initial post so I will post it here, I tried editing it in but it wouldn't work.

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5b9a7b52ce5df (2403 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver:Alright lets get into some nit picks to address.

Morbius from feats I've seen and his guidebook entry operates around 2 ton level consistently, do you have feats to back this 20 ton claim up?

Yes. He has overpowered Spider Man several times in fights.

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Morbius states these chains and bindings can withstand the strength of several werewolves, which Morbius snap with ease when lusting for blood.

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Breaks free of a thick restrain device from the X-Men.

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Morbius casually rips apart Spider Man's webbing many times. Webbing in the 20 ton area for strength.

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Smashes another Lillin through a dump truck.

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Slams Ghost Rider Ketch through a block wall.

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Spider Man states he hits like a H Bomb.

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Physically knocks Spider Man down for the count till lightning saves Spidey.

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Matches Venom enough that even Venom comments on his strength.

How can he overpower the 10-20 ton Spidey at 2 tons? That makes no sense.

This is not an 80 ton feat Colossus weighs 500 pounds in armor form the second one looks like Dracula merely used his momentum against him

Look at the feat again. He catches the physical strikes of Colossus and then throws him. Stopping dead the punch. Though this is his highest end for strength feats. He is more around Spider Man level consistently.

As far as speed is concerned I feel Gabriel has the edge here, not a huge edge but not one to be dismissed.

I dont see a speed edge at all honestly. Gabriel never made after images in his fights, or face and fight off a Mach 2 Speedster with enhance speed from her Vampires stats on top of that like Dracula has with Spitfire. I dont see a "edge" there.

Marvel Dracula has some good durability but I feel Gabriel has the edge here as well

We will find out. I feel Gabriel is easier to harm where Marvel Dracula, short of decapitation, will chug on through any wound not silver or wood.

I can't exactly say how they compare skill wise, Gabriel was a well trained Holy Knight before he became Dracul, admittedly taking Black Knight down in a sword fight is impressive. But Gabriel is immune to the effects of common weapon damage in any event and I don't think he will struggle to hit Dracula in his own right.

In the game, he has been weaken and harmed by physical strikes and explosive damage in cut scenes. He seems far from unbeatable there where Dracula has tank blows from Captain Marvel and Hulk and chug on fine.

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Captain Britain full force punches Dracula in the face in anger and rage, but Dracula remains un faze when he gets right back up.

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The more powerful amped Nul Hulk slams Dracula and his forces with a single strike. This strike kills all the vampires from the force, but Dracula who recovers in a few panels, as if nothing happen.

Speaking of which lets prove how damn good that healing factor he has over Gabriel's own.

Healing Factor

Lets touch on one of Dracula's greatest assets. The guy is pretty damn immortal, and rightfully so thanks to the curse from the most powerful Elder God of black magic, Chthon himself.

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While not Dracula's own feat, Spitfire here shows how good a normal Vampires healing is. She has no healing factor other than her Vampire abilities here, and literally falls from orbit, survives in near skeleton form, and then regens fine in two pages. Dracula's own healing is stated superior to any other Vampire. Just for comparison.

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Various feats of bullets and gunfire having no effect. Including guns shots to the skull.

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Various feats of healing from states of death, or damage. Even as far reforming from nothing but dust and bones, reforming from the fires that burn away the plane and bodies, and even having his head reattach fine in seconds.

Nothing short of Silver, Wood, Blessed Weapons, or Decapitation will slow Dracula down. Another huge factor for durability of Marvel Dracula is his use of misting in fights to further increase his options of defense.

Mist Form

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Various uses of the mist in fights. Scans 1-2 he uses it to let wooden stakes by pass him. Scan 3-4 shows how Dracula uses it to let to avoid damage, and then counter attack. Scan 5 shows how even Apocalypse is unable to harm Dracula if Dracula does not wish it.

Even the infamous soul stealing will not work. Dr. Strange tried this. Attacking the soul and mind. Dracula could only be "killed" was a special spell by Chthon himself that made him. I see no reason for soul stealing to work where Dr. Strange at his best could not pull off himself.

Now as for some unique counters to your own monster summoning, Dracula has that ability too.

Summoning

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Examples include Dracula summoning bats, rats, and even wolves where none exist in Central Park to attack the X-Men. Summons enough Rats to cause Thor annoyance. Summons enough rats to annoy Silver Surfer. Summons enough wolves, bats and rats to topple over Apocalypse.

Summons various animals to attack.

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Summons lesser demons from hell to attack.

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Summons the dead in graveyards as zombies.

These minions have given Thor, Apocalypse, and Surfer issues in distraction. I see nothing of CD servants being much of a issue here for MD.

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#9 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Nice response we didn't really discuss how many poststo do, so what do you say we do closers after this post? also thanks for keeping the reply shorter as this is my first CaV and I don't have a ton of time to do counter-essays not to mention all those gifs in the first post bogged my browser down to the point where it nearly crashed before I could post it.

In any event onto the rebuttals

Morbius states these chains and bindings can withstand the strength of several werewolves, which Morbius snap with ease when lusting for blood.

That sounds interesting but I don't know anything about how strong the average marvel werewolf is, and what several means specifically in the context, is it two? five? ten? who knows, but certainly nothing compared to the enormous chains that Gabriel was snapping off the leviathan.

Breaks free of a thick restrain device from the X-Men.

Look like common shackles to me but it's not worth arguing over much.

Morbius casually rips apart Spider Man's webbing many times. Webbing in the 20 ton area for strength.

Impressive but seems like an outlier as Spidermans webbing has stopped characters far stronger than Morbius.

Look at the feat again. He catches the physical strikes of Colossus and then throws him. Stopping dead the punch. Though this is his highest end for strength feats. He is more around Spider Man level consistently.

I saw the feat quite clearly the first time, just because Colossus has high strength feats does not mean he always uses that much of his strength, not to mention strength and striking power are not the same thing, but as you've said this is not a consistent level so I don't want to bog the discussion down over this one.

Spider Man states he hits like a H Bomb.

Hyperbole and Peter admits he will take him seriously the next time they exchange blows, meaning he was holding back as usual.

Physically knocks Spider Man down for the count till lightning saves Spidey.

This is a good one, impressive.

How can he overpower the 10-20 ton Spidey at 2 tons? That makes no sense.

That's why I asked you for feats I only had a vague knowledge of Morbius based on the very few feats I've seen in the past.

I dont see a speed edge at all honestly. Gabriel never made after images in his fights, or face and fight off a Mach 2 Speedster with enhance speed from her Vampires stats on top of that like Dracula has with Spitfire. I dont see a "edge" there.

He reacted to possessed Alucard at supersonic speed this was calced by someone in an older battle I did to quote.

The human eye can perceive images up to 0.013 seconds (13 milliseconds). Now, the distance looked about 20 feet which roughly equates to 6.1 meters, and Dracula closed that in 0.013 seconds or less, then he was moving at 1049.6393 mph. In mach numbers, that would be about Mach 1.3. So in terms of actual speed, Dracula can move at LEAST at supersonic speeds.

After images are more prevalent in comics, Now maybe that isn't an edge but it's certainly fast, he also has teleportation on top of his speed, and my argument ultimately doesn't hinge on having a speed advantage to be clear. I don't want to get too bogged down in the physical stat discussion as I feel the two are close enough.

We will find out. I feel Gabriel is easier to harm where Marvel Dracula, short of decapitation, will chug on through any wound not silver or wood.

Well you aren't just facing Gabriel he also has the original timeline Draculas abilities as this is composite Castlevania Dracula, which means he has invulnerability to anything other than holy weapons/magic which he is resistant to, power from his own bodily remains, decapitation and the Vampire Killer whip. Now I've done some looking around and I've seen it stated on Draculas Marvel wiki page, that he has a weakness to fire and holy magic if so then this will be a very short match.

Classic Draculas magic includes Fireballs, Meteor Storms and his ultimate attack Demonic Megiddo which contrary to it's name inflicts holy fire damage on a large scale meaning Marvel Dracula cannot hope to escape the blast. He also has the power of Dominance which allows him to mentally dominate undead and humans with ease.

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Demonic Megiddo

"Magic that creates a massive explosion, purging everything in the vicinity with holy flames."

In the game, he has been weaken and harmed by physical strikes and explosive damage in cut scenes. He seems far from unbeatable there where Dracula has tank blows from Captain Marvel and Hulk and chug on fine.

Well lets be honest for a good portion of the Lords of Shadow 2 game Gabriel is weak and doesn't have his full power, and as I said he has the original timeline invulnerability as well, lets also remember that Gabriel tanked this massive explosion comparable to an enormous meteorite, far exceeding any force that Marvel Dracula has at his disposal.

He was also pierced in the gut and recovered just fine.

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In addition the explosion was described in game lore Banners of Brotherhood:

In the year of Our Lord 1830 the banners that the glorious army of the Brotherhood of Light carried during the final battle against Dracula were found on this very site. This memorial commemorates and celebrates that the Paladin Roland de Ronceval, commanding five-hundred thousand men, defeated the Prince of Darkness, freeing this land from the atrocious yoke that subjected it to horror and death for so long. No one returned from that battle. It is known that Roland de Ronceval managed to channel the power of the seven archangels through his battle cross. Historians still debate about whether he did so before or after Dracula exterminated the entire army. What we do know is that the energy released could be seen and heard for thousands of miles around. The castle was mostly reduced to ash and no one ever saw Dracula again. Let us give thanks for that.

Now of course he didn't defeat Dracula the Church dressed this up with some propaganda as Dracula and Alucard were clearly the only two things left standing and the explosion was seen and heard for thousands of miles miles in all directions.

I don't have much to say about the healing factor or mist form, Gabriel has a healing factor on top of his ridiculous invulnerability and he also has access to mist form which can do the exact same thing as Marvel Dracula.

I would like to add that in terms of skill Gabriel outfought the Golden Paladin Roland de Ronceval whose Golden Armor forged from the bones of Angels gave him superhuman stats.

Here he gets the better of his son Alucard a Master Swordsman, in disguise, bare handed while weakened and making it look easy, I'm assuming you're familiar with how skilled/powerful he is.

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Here we see Gabriel make good use of his sword skill against Raisa Volkova daughter of Satan in her true form.

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Also if you want to talk about striking power his punch absolutely ragdolls Abaddon a high tier demon.

"Abaddon possesses incredible strength able to destroy buildings and send waves of rubble. It is also able launch the pods on its backs into the air, which come back down to release possessed citizens. It can also breath a large green torrent of flame."

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That about wraps up my reply, you're up.

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#10 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver:

Nice response we didn't really discuss how many poststo do, so what do you say we do closers after this post? also thanks for keeping the reply shorter as this is my first CaV and I don't have a ton of time to do counter-essays not to mention all those gifs in the first post bogged my browser down to the point where it nearly crashed before I could post it.

I prefer shoter debates myself. I hate walls of text. This is for fun not a damn essay.

That sounds interesting but I don't know anything about how strong the average marvel werewolf is, and what several means specifically in the context, is it two? five? ten? who knows, but certainly nothing compared to the enormous chains that Gabriel was snapping off the leviathan.

I agree. The chains Gabriel handled were superior to most of what Morbius shown or Werewolf By Night. I think the Colossus feat, steel trap box, and steel siege door feats compare.

Impressive but seems like an outlier as Spidermans webbing has stopped characters far stronger than Morbius.

I dont see a outlier for webbing that has shown consistency time and again to hold 20 or so tons. Morbius busting out of it is a great feat for him.

Hyperbole and Peter admits he will take him seriously the next time they exchange blows, meaning he was holding back as usual.

Nothing hyperbole about it. Does Dracula hit with city busting attacks? No, of course not. Does Dracula hit Spider Man hard enough to make Spidey see stars? Yes, this happen MANY MANY MANY times. Koing Spider Man in few fights. As in more than one. Even Venom stated how strong Morbius is. He is strong as shit. He tangled and beat the Lizard before too. He has even toss around Ketch Ghost Rider. He is no slouch in strength.

He reacted to possessed Alucard at supersonic speed this was calced by someone in an older battle I did to quote.

The human eye can perceive images up to 0.013 seconds (13 milliseconds). Now, the distance looked about 20 feet which roughly equates to 6.1 meters, and Dracula closed that in 0.013 seconds or less, then he was moving at 1049.6393 mph. In mach numbers, that would be about Mach 1.3. So in terms of actual speed, Dracula can move at LEAST at supersonic speeds.

After images are more prevalent in comics, Now maybe that isn't an edge but it's certainly fast, he also has teleportation on top of his speed, and my argument ultimately doesn't hinge on having a speed advantage to be clear. I don't want to get too bogged down in the physical stat discussion as I feel the two are close enough.

I do not argue Marvel Dracula faster, Im just sating CD here is not faster either. I feel by stats they are so even.

Well you aren't just facing Gabriel he also has the original timeline Draculas abilities as this is composite Castlevania Dracula, which means he has invulnerability to anything other than holy weapons/magic which he is resistant to, power from his own bodily remains, decapitation and the Vampire Killer whip. Now I've done some looking around and I've seen it stated on Draculas Marvel wiki page, that he has a weakness to fire and holy magic if so then this will be a very short match.

Classic Draculas magic includes Fireballs, Meteor Storms and his ultimate attack Demonic Megiddo which contrary to it's name inflicts holy fire damage on a large scale meaning Marvel Dracula cannot hope to escape the blast. He also has the power of Dominance which allows him to mentally dominate undead and humans with ease.

Demonic Megiddo

"Magic that creates a massive explosion, purging everything in the vicinity with holy flames."

Holy attacks do wound Marvel Dracula. Fire? Not at all.

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Dracula is hit with straight lightning till he catches on fire. No effect.

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Dracula takes a full enraged lightning blast from Storm, and shrugs it off fine.

I highly doubt fire will be a factor that much. The holy attacks are not a end game move either.

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The Golden Angel is Dracula's son merge with the soul of a angel. Blasting Dracula with holy light attacks that burn Dracula. Even though weak to holy attacks, Dracula tank these blast after blast while fighting on till Dracula eventually won.

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Dracula also endures easily Dr Strange invoking Christian Gods power to burn up Dracula. Dracula endures this powerful holy attack, and mentally tricks Strange that he is dead. Dracula suffers major damage, but then easily heals away all damage as soon Strange steps out of sight.

So while it will be effective as harming Dracula. I doubt the attack will be like instant win. Once Dracula learns of the initial holy spell, he can actively avoid it, or end the fight as soon as possible.

Well lets be honest for a good portion of the Lords of Shadow 2 game Gabriel is weak and doesn't have his full power, and as I said he has the original timeline invulnerability as well, lets also remember that Gabriel tanked this massive explosion comparable to an enormous meteorite, far exceeding any force that Marvel Dracula has at his disposal.

He was also pierced in the gut and recovered just fine.

In addition the explosion was described in game lore Banners of Brotherhood:

In the year of Our Lord 1830 the banners that the glorious army of the Brotherhood of Light carried during the final battle against Dracula were found on this very site. This memorial commemorates and celebrates that the Paladin Roland de Ronceval, commanding five-hundred thousand men, defeated the Prince of Darkness, freeing this land from the atrocious yoke that subjected it to horror and death for so long. No one returned from that battle. It is known that Roland de Ronceval managed to channel the power of the seven archangels through his battle cross. Historians still debate about whether he did so before or after Dracula exterminated the entire army. What we do know is that the energy released could be seen and heard for thousands of miles around. The castle was mostly reduced to ash and no one ever saw Dracula again. Let us give thanks for that.

Now of course he didn't defeat Dracula the Church dressed this up with some propaganda as Dracula and Alucard were clearly the only two things left standing and the explosion was seen and heard for thousands of miles miles in all directions.

Well I hate to debunk the explosion claim, but the reason Dracula tank such a blast was due to his immunity to holy attacks which he stated himself.

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As said, Gabriel is a servant of God, even though he turn monster it was his destiny and purpose to save the world from evil regardless. Thus Gods attacks would not harm him.

I would like to add that in terms of skill Gabriel outfought the Golden Paladin Roland de Ronceval whose Golden Armor forged from the bones of Angels gave him superhuman stats.

Marvel Dracula done similar vs his own son merged with a Golden Angel.

Here he gets the better of his son Alucard a Master Swordsman, in disguise, bare handed while weakened and making it look easy, I'm assuming you're familiar with how skilled/powerful he is.

Here we see Gabriel make good use of his sword skill against Raisa Volkova daughter of Satan in her true form.

Also if you want to talk about striking power his punch absolutely ragdolls Abaddon a high tier demon.

"Abaddon possesses incredible strength able to destroy buildings and send waves of rubble. It is also able launch the pods on its backs into the air, which come back down to release possessed citizens. It can also breath a large green torrent of flame."

Pretty good feats. Like your own magic wielding Dracula, mine has more powers at his disposal as well. Weather Manipulation being a good one.

Storm and Lightning

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Manipulates this snow storm for cover. Generates powerful storm clouds and raging winds.

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Generates winds that can even knock around Silver Surfer in scan 2.

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Matches Thor's own control of the elements.

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Uses Lightning itself as a tool to attack foes, and kill foes. Scan 1 he uses it to kill a priest with a cross. Scan 2 to strike another Vampire. Scan 3 to split of Helsing and Apocalypse. Scan 4 to chain attack Nightcrawler the whole fight. Scan 5 shows the lightning that hit his son Janus had the power to blow into pieces large trees.

Pretty straight forward. The crazy winds, and powerful lightning strikes will all be great range attacks, and good enough to counter most of the more unique spells attacks from CD. To finish this CaV off we have Draculas biggest advantage, mental attacks. Dracula's mental attacks are insane good, and viable for the ace in hole of a losing fight.

Hypnotism and Telepathy

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With a look he can turn you into a slave.

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Anyone under his hypnotism or vampirism bites has a psychic connection to him. Dracula likewise can hear and see what they do.

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As proven with Black Widow, that even with Tony stark help to purge the telepathy control from her mind by Dracula after many years, its still effective.

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In a battle Dracula can use this in many ways. Scan 1 shows Dracula hypnotizing a woman to his will. Scan 2 has Dracula forcing a biker gang to kill themselves. Scan 3 he orders a mob to kill each other. Scan 4-5 is Dracula hypnotizing children to attack his enemies. Scan 6 shows Dracula resorting to hypnotism on a crowd of people to go crazy on each other in the middle of a fight with the Golden Angel.

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Dracula can also use this ability on beings with powerful mental resistance. This includes depowering Shiklah in a fight in scan 1. Scan 2 and 3 has Dracula not once but twice mentally trick and hypnotize Dr Strange. Scan 4 is him making Silver Surfer see illusions.

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Add to the Hypnotism, Dracula is able to mentally control any being he has personally bitten other than Blade and other vampires. This included characters like Storm and Asgardians like Sif. Even Wolverine and Apocalypse who have incredible mental resistance.

This form of distraction and attack will turn CD's own minions on him, and mentally hinder, or take out CD himself. It is one of Marvel Dracula's strongest points to combat the many unique abilities and spells with just his own weather manipulation, hypnosis, and summoning powers. Marvel Dracula I would argue would not be shocked by anything this Dracula from Castlevania can pull out. Marvel Dracula has fought Silver Surfer, the X-Men, Dr Strange, Thor, and more. He is very versatile and will likely find a way to use his own powers to his benefit to pull a win with decapitation. Again, I feel Marvel Dracula hold the better healing, and resistance to attacks via his healing factor.

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#11 Edited by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:Alright this will be my closing post.

Nothing hyperbole about it. Does Dracula hit with city busting attacks? No, of course not. Does Dracula hit Spider Man hard enough to make Spidey see stars? Yes, this happen MANY MANY MANY times. Koing Spider Man in few fights. As in more than one. Even Venom stated how strong Morbius is. He is strong as shit. He tangled and beat the Lizard before too. He has even toss around Ketch Ghost Rider. He is no slouch in strength.

Which makes it Hyperbole as I was specifically referring to the "hits like an H-bomb" part.

Holy attacks do wound Marvel Dracula. Fire? Not at all.

That's good to know

I highly doubt fire will be a factor that much. The holy attacks are not a end game move either.

So while it will be effective as harming Dracula. I doubt the attack will be like instant win. Once Dracula learns of the initial holy spell, he can actively avoid it, or end the fight as soon as possible.

I don't think that the Demonic Megiddo would one shot kill MD but it would certainly debilitate him to the point where his head could be taken off with ease.

Pretty straight forward. The crazy winds, and powerful lightning strikes will all be great range attacks, and good enough to counter most of the more unique spells attacks from CD. To finish this CaV off we have Draculas biggest advantage, mental attacks. Dracula's mental attacks are insane good, and viable for the ace in hole of a losing fight.

I don't see the weather attacks being anything more than an annoyance for Gabriel and certainly not matching his destructive output, as I said he can rain meteors down from space or he can fire them directly, some of his versatility. I also noticed that Dracula is not able to actively engage in combat when he controls weather, so basically none of his weather attacks can hurt Gabriel due to invulnerability and healing factor.

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Ultimately this battle will not likely come down to their basic forms of attack, as you've shown MD has a good healing factor, and Gabriel has his own on top of invulnerability. This is also why I did not comment much on the summoning aspects as I feel they are a stalemate at best, though Gabriel has mentally dominated far stronger minions to command than basic animals.

This form of distraction and attack will turn CD's own minions on him, and mentally hinder, or take out CD himself. It is one of Marvel Dracula's strongest points to combat the many unique abilities and spells with just his own weather manipulation, hypnosis, and summoning powers. Marvel Dracula I would argue would not be shocked by anything this Dracula from Castlevania can pull out. Marvel Dracula has fought Silver Surfer, the X-Men, Dr Strange, Thor, and more. He is very versatile and will likely find a way to use his own powers to his benefit to pull a win with decapitation. Again, I feel Marvel Dracula hold the better healing, and resistance to attacks via his healing factor.

This is not going to be possible I'm afraid as I mentioned earlier Gabriel has from the Original Draculas passive ability, the Power of Dominance which has allowed him to mentally Dominate and enslave high tier Demons and even Death itself, but I can show a few feats myself that are common enough.

Gabriel also has the ability to directly possess his opponent, Early in Lords of Shadow 2 Gabriel having just awakened and lost most of his power must rely on stealth and possession to achieve his goal.

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Dracula can also use this ability on beings with powerful mental resistance. This includes depowering Shiklah in a fight in scan 1. Scan 2 and 3 has Dracula not once but twice mentally trick and hypnotize Dr Strange. Scan 4 is him making Silver Surfer see illusions.

Even Satan at full power in Lords of Shadow 2 could not mentally dominate/possess Gabriel, in fact Satan and Zobek both feared direct confrontation with Gabriel when he was at full strength in the dark ages, so he was reduced to possessing Alucard to play mind games with Gabriel which also did not work.

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I don't see either one of these two being able to mentally Dominate the other, even if you argue that somehow MD could mentally turn the minions of CD against him, which I don't believe for a second, he has several large scale AOE spells that could with ease wipe the battlefield clean, he also knows spells of charm and illusion.

Now as I see it these two have similar abilities, and we've spent enough time going back and forth over them, since this is my closing post I want to point out the things that I feel will give Gabriel the victory.

Gear: The one item in Gabriels arsenal that will help him achieve victory is the Void Sword, with one stab, this can easily happen to MD and lead to a direct decapitation, victory.

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Form of the Dragon: I have not seen anything from MD that suggests he could counter the Dragon Form of Gabriel which he can use to literally devour Dracula or just take his head off.

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Demonic Megiddo to reiterate does massive amounts of holy and fire Damage, and while it may not outright destroy MD in and of itself, it should surely debilitate him to the point where Gabriel can win, and while he may be somewhat resistant to holy magic, he cannot tank them indefinitely and this is an attack that Gabriel can use often, it also has a second variation that is not AOE, instead it's shot as a fireball.

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Gabriel also has the ability of blood draining

Blood Draining: As a vampire, Dracula can drink his enemies' blood to heal himself. By draining the blood of vampires such as Carmilla, Dracula can gain access to their innate powers like Carmilla's Mist Form.

Meaning if he drinks the blood of Dracula he will gain all of Dracula's innate powers in addition to his own, he also has possession.

Possession: Dracula can use his blood to possess his enemies and force them to fight one another or to take control of them to a limited degree. He can only inhabit a body temporarily, as the power of his blood will quickly kill the host. In Mirror of Fate, he uses a different type of possession is able to take control of Simon without directly inhabiting his body. This form of possession uses some type of black smoke and allows Dracula to manipulate his victims far more efficiently as evidenced by Simon still being fully combat-capable, as opposed to targets in the modern day who are barely able to walk.

Teleportation I have an old comic with Dracula, I'm going off of memory here, it may be the one where you got the scan of Storm striking him with lightning, basically he drank her blood and made her his queen, but there was a part during the battle where Nightcrawler teleported in front of him and stabbed him with a spear.

So even if their other stats are equivalent Gabriel can teleport and with the void sword he could end this fight.

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Something that I didn't touch on throughout the battle, the source of Gabriels power in Lords of Shadow series as a vampire is an incredibly powerful demon called The Forgotten One, he was more powerful than all three Lords of Shadow combined. Through a bit of clever trickery, not being able to match the Demons raw power, Gabriel usurped the power from the Demon gaining it in addition to his own formidable strength and used it to destroy him with telekinesis slicing him in half casually.

The Forgotten One's immense power was so great that he broke free from the Bernhard's control and was sealed by the Founding Members of the Brotherhood since they couldn't defeat him.

  • Unlimited Power - In Resurrection, he boasts that his power is unlimited as he can survive in lava and can use his superhuman strength, speed, and size to destroy seals. His power was indeed so great that Gabriel had to hide from him and his extrasensory ability if he wanted to live and could only fight him in his weaker state, as otherwise he would be vaporized instantly. In Reverie, Laura says the Forgotten One will burn the world to ashes.
  • Clairvoyance - The Forgotten One could see into Gabriel's soul.
  • Electrokinesis - He could summon and control mystical electricity.
  • Superhuman Strength - The Forgotten One was as strong as Cornell, if not stronger. He could smash steel and crush iron with his might.
  • Superhuman Speed - The Forgotten One was as fast as Cornell.
  • Superhuman Stamina - The Forgotten One was seemingly tireless. Even after losing the lion's share of his power, he was still full of vigor.
  • Superhuman Durability - While battling with Gabriel and taking damage, he thought it was nothing more but a scratch as his armor was breaking apart.
  • Superhuman Agility - The Forgotten One could jump high into the air.
  • Immortality - The Forgotten One is immortal.
  • Wall-Crawling - He is shown to have the ability to cling to walls using his claws.
  • Umbrakinetic - He has control over elemental darkness.
  • Weapon Summoning - The Forgotten One can summon weapons from darkness, including a chained mace, a pair of swords and a chained blade, all of them of massive size.
  • Regeneration - The Forgotten One seems to have limited regenerative abilities, mostly associated with his armor. As Gabriel chops its armor and inflicts damage solely to his exposed parts, eventually that place hardens once more, forcing Gabriel to tear apart his armor again.
  • Elemental Mastery - The Forgotten One was able to summon and control the debris around him in the form of spikes that he could launch psychically. When these spikes contacted something, they exploded in fire, suggesting The Forgotten One enchanted them.

Their battle is here, throughout parts of the battle the Forgotten One had diverted the majority of his power to breaking the seals that kept him from entering the mortal world and reducing to ash.

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Conclusions:

  • Marvel Dracula lacks the versatility needed to win this fight
  • Gabriel has many paths to victory and has equal if not superior durability to Marvel Dracula.
  • Marvel Dracula while having faced some formidable foes ultimately they pale in comparison to Gabriels opponents, who are the very forces of destruction, including a full powered Satan along with various demons and old gods and the Lords of Shadow.
  • Gabriel has demonstrated time and again that even in a weakened state he has found ways to destroy or subdue more powerful opposition, he outmatched his son, who is his physical equal, while weakened and Raisa Valkova in their first encounter who was moving at speeds faster than he could perceive.
  • Most of Marvel Dracula's abilities are simply non-factors in this fight.

That's all for my part Fizz, win lose or draw it was a really fun debate I look forward to your counter and then we can go onto voting.

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#12 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver:I know we said last posts, but I have to address this.

So even if their other stats are equivalent Gabriel has this advantage with the void sword this could easily end the fight in similar fashion.

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This is some false info. That stab to the chest did little to Dracula.

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As seen, the chest stab was scan 3 of 15 lol. Dracula kept fighting fine for 15 more panels, roughly 8 more pages after that.

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#13 Edited by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Not to interrupt your flow Fizz but it wasn't my intention to say that Nightcrawler ended that particular fight, I didn't have access to the rest of the comic, but I meant that Gabriel can end this fight with his sword by using a similar attack, the way I worded it I can see how you might have gotten that impression.

Also it obviously did wound him pretty badly, he was down and if Rachel had not intervened he would not have had time to recover and run away, anyways I just had to make a quick reply to clear up the confusion here.

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#14 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Not to interrupt your flow Fizz but it wasn't my intention to say that Nightcrawler ended that particular fight, I didn't have access to the rest of the comic, but I meant that Gabriel can end this fight with his sword by using a similar attack, the way I worded it I can see how you might have gotten that impression.

Also it obviously did wound him pretty badly, he was down and if Rachel had not intervened he would not have had time to recover and run away, anyways I just had to make a quick reply to clear up the confusion here.

Ok, it read like you were implying that as example of ending the fight with a simple chest stab to me. After your done editing I can open for votes.

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#15 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Done with my edit, took me quite a few tries as I kept getting errors.

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#17 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

We are open for votes if anyone is interested.

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#18 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7786 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by Cergic (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver: i vote for you in this CaV, it seems open still. I can elaborate if asked.

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#21 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic said:

@devil_driver: i vote for you in this CaV, it seems open still. I can elaborate if asked.

Old CaV, glad someone read it and still voting.

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#22 Posted by Cergic (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Old but gold i'd say. A CaV sure is a fine way of learning more about characters and i can tell you right now that i was clueless about Dracula. He is way more high tier than i expected him to be. Thanks for sharing.

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#23 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Old but gold i'd say. A CaV sure is a fine way of learning more about characters and i can tell you right now that i was clueless about Dracula. He is way more high tier than i expected him to be. Thanks for sharing.

That is why I like doing these kinds of CaVs.

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#24 Posted by Devil_Driver (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@cergic: I always appreciate elaboration, I'm sure Fizzy feels the same.