@CadenceV2: Let me know when you put up an argument so i can try and counter that. I am still a bit surprised that you opted for the debate as most comics seem to refer Mephisto outside his realm at the same power level as Thanos, but we will see coz i am sure you are going to break plenty of scans i have not read :)
Would be an awesome read, BTW be aware any and all scans you post might get stolen by me for future reference :p if you have a problem with that well it sucks to be you :p
Would be an awesome read, BTW be aware any and all scans you post might get stolen by me for future reference :p if you have a problem with that well it sucks to be you :p
@Killemall: Be forwarn most of my scans are from (ofcourse) Ghost Rider. As such the Early scans will say Satan alot however it was Mephisto the whole time by Issue 68. So you may know more of Mephisto via IF Gauntlet, Silver surfer, and thru Defenders.
Also You are correct in saying Mephisto doesnt do alot of solo fighting at all. He rarely leaves his realm. However He can be beastie when you take into account what Mephisto fighting style and power really relates to in character. Creating Demons from nothing. It may seem like Calling for outside help but for 2 key differences.
1) Mephisto actually creates his Demons from his own power and nothing else. Outside help is referred to completly seperate beings who know eachother and help eachother.
2) Mephisto Empowers these Demons with powers that work to small degrees outside his realm. Outside help can be like Superman helping Batman. Batman is weaker than his minnion? No.
So with that in mind I think Mephisto has a shot if he goes all out against Odin like he does Ghost Rider.
Alright now thats out of the way.... Onto the Debate.
Simple quick BIO of Mephisto. As seen he is Superior in his realm and really a terrible fighter. However what the stats clearly show is that Intelligence of his.
Mephisto is dang near Omnipresent. He can see anything virtually anywhere at any given time. Including other Dimensions.
He also showed that even losses are planned victories.
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Even when compared to Other Hellords (like Hela here) he tricks them with losses that will lead to victories.
Mephisto to the point is very much the top masterminds of Marvel 616.
He also battles as such. He rarely fights himself and sends beings made of his powers to battle fore him or Enslaved Human Souls a chance to be free and imbue them with his power as well life.
I will get to them later as needed. For now I will concentrate on his feats specifically.
Durability:
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Mephisto outside his realm has tank Planet Blast like nothing. Casual Planet wrecking attacks would be shrugged off.
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Here are lesser Lesser Feats of Tanking Rogues hits like you would a fly. Or Invisible Womans best shot.
Overall his durability is is up there outside his realm.
Strength
His strength can be measured in more ways than just Striking or Lifting. Its measured in Magical attacks.
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Scan 1: Erupts Mountain into a Volcano
Scan 2-3: Opes Fissure in the Earth.
Thats some good use of power outside his realm.
We know from himself he can Galaxy Bust as well with his full power.
Proof of this is shown in a way when he fought Galactus in his Realm.
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As we all know the battle between the 2 destroyed Planets across space!
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Also noted in these Scans is Mephistos Power against Hell Lord Azmodeus and destroying him casually. Also Mephistos Power vs Santaanish would be enough to destroy Earth.
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Here Mephisto is in a predicament again over claim of a Ghost Rider Soul. Nobel Kale belongs to Mephisto but a powerful Angel called Uriel intervenes and claim rights to the Soul as well. As said the war that would be brought forth between the 2 alone would destroy Earth and many other worlds.
Point is Mephisto has as much power outside his Realm as most people believe. All because he retreated from taking Vengeance out on Thanos.
The Guy casually beats a Classic level Silver Surfer pretty easy outside his realm. He just could never corrupt Norrins Soul.
Mephisto is also powerful i his many Unique abilities and attacks that don't require Strength or Durability. He doesn't fight like a brute at all. He fights like a BOSS!
@Killemall: Be forwarn most of my scans are from (ofcourse) Ghost Rider. As such the Early scans will say Satan alot however it was Mephisto the whole time by Issue 68. So you may know more of Mephisto via IF Gauntlet, Silver surfer, and thru Defenders.
That was never a problem :)
Post scan from wherever you like the more scans that i have NOT seen before the better.
@CadenceV2 said:
ders.
Also You are correct in saying Mephisto doesnt do alot of solo fighting at all. He rarely leaves his realm. However He can be beastie when you take into account what Mephisto fighting style and power really relates to in character. Creating Demons from nothing. It may seem like Calling for outside help but for 2 key differences.
1) Mephisto actually creates his Demons from his own power and nothing else. Outside help is referred to completly seperate beings who know eachother and help eachother.
2) Mephisto Empowers these Demons with powers that work to small degrees outside his realm. Outside help can be like Superman helping Batman. Batman is weaker than his minnion? No.
So with that in mind I think Mephisto has a shot if he goes all out against Odin like he does Ghost Rider.
Fair enough :)
Alright now thats out of the way.... Onto the Debate.
Simple quick BIO of Mephisto. As seen he is Superior in his realm and really a terrible fighter. However what the stats clearly show is that Intelligence of his.
Mephisto is dang near Omnipresent. He can see anything virtually anywhere at any given time. Including other Dimensions.
He also showed that even losses are planned victories.
Ok in terms of Mephisto being more powerful, if you notice the last line in the bio you have posted in the right hand side, it clearly says a large portion of his powers are tied to his realm, he is not going to have access to all his powers outside his realm.
Furthermore, since i dont have a bio i am posting scans for comparison.
Journey into the Mystery 627, Hell Lords and other extra-dimensional demons complain about Serpent, and this is what Mephisto replies when asked if he would like to join Nightmare in a fight against Serpent.
As per intelligence, in Marvel wiki Odin's intelligence is kept at 7 as well, but since i dont have an official bio with me lets let that slide. Intelligence is not going to help mephisto in this fight, why because there is no prep involved, sadly its a random encounter.
He also showed that even losses are planned victories.
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Even when compared to Other Hellords (like Hela here) he tricks them with losses that will lead to victories.
I dont think that actually counts as a feat. Hela incident is ok, fair enough, but she isnt the smartest one there. And Loki was actually playing the both of them together, even the Kid Loki. Thanos has done the same to Mephisto as well as Doom.
What i am trying to say is, while he is smart he is no Dr. Doom with prep, furthermore, there is no prep involved here.
Durability:
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Mephisto outside his realm has tank Planet Blast like nothing. Casual Planet wrecking attacks would be shrugged off.
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Here are lesser Lesser Feats of Tanking Rogues hits like you would a fly. Or Invisible Womans best shot.
That absolutely pales in comparison to what Odin can throw at him.
Odin vs Seth, shooked all realities.
In fact here Dr. Strange says it could have tore the very fabric of multiverse, thats the power ODin can release.
His feats are just better.
Thats some good use of power outside his realm.
We know from himself he can Galaxy Bust as well with his full power.
Proof of this is shown in a way when he fought Galactus in his Realm.
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He is clearly in Hades when he is making the claim, its just a mere claim not something he actually did.
You bio actually solidifies he gets weaker outside his realm, here is on panel evidence, as he clearly agrees to it
Not going to address the rest as its correct dont have much bearing but i would like to bring something more interesting to the table.
Skyfather can and has over-ridden his magic which is something Mephisto has to overcome.
Thunderstrike 15: Mephisto had tricked Thuderstrike into signing a contract that his soul would now belong to Mephisto, Odin easily nullified his contract with but a touch.
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A similar instance
Journey into the Mystery 631: All mother, easily lifted Mephisto's contract he had acquired on Hela and Hel (well Hela's hell as opposed to Hades or Hell)
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So what i am going at is, not only does Odin have better feats of powers, we know two things:
1. Skyfather have ability to over-ride Mephisto's power something that is going to play directly against him.
2. Mephisto himself admits fighting a skyfather headon would be "Lunacy" , the same skyfather Odin was shown beating twice in Fear Itself, and Thor shown killing using Odin's powers (Odin Sword, Ragnarok).
Other point like creating Demons:
1. Odin with a gesture in Fear Itself re-created Asgard.
2. Loki with a portion of Odin's power, throught Odin ring, created a being who was Thor's superior Durok, out of thin air.
So Odin himself has those powers.
Given superior showings, ability to over-ride Mephisto's powers, and has pretty much all his abilities bar the level of intelligence and planning, i say in a random encounter not only should Odin win, but Mephisto is clearly outmatched and outgunned.
@Killemall: I was unaware of that feat in Thunderstrike 15. It would have been nice to see him exploit a Loophole in the contract, rather than just say I am Odin I can do whatever I want. Though it was amusing to see Odin in a Suit, Tie and Hat :)
Anyway good work to you and CadenceV2 so far, keep it up.
@Killemall: I was unaware of that feat in Thunderstrike 15. It would have been nice to see him exploit a Loophole in the contract, rather than just say I am Odin I can do whatever I want. Though it was amusing to see Odin in a Suit, Tie and Hat :)
Any good work to you and CadenceV2 so far, keep it up.
Odin and Thor are viking, they dont do loopholes, they dont do nerve strike when fighting, they take a massive hammer and beat you to death with it. Thats Viking's way ;)
@Killemall: I was unaware of that feat in Thunderstrike 15. It would have been nice to see him exploit a Loophole in the contract, rather than just say I am Odin I can do whatever I want. Though it was amusing to see Odin in a Suit, Tie and Hat :)
Any good work to you and CadenceV2 so far, keep it up.
Odin and Thor are viking, they dont do loopholes, they dont do nerve strike when fighting, they take a massive hammer and beat you to death with it. Thats Viking's way ;)
Actually they are extremely powerful aliens that were mistaken by Vikings to be Gods and thus worshiped.
Ok in terms of Mephisto being more powerful, if you notice the last line in the bio you have posted in the right hand side, it clearly says a large portion of his powers are tied to his realm, he is not going to have access to all his powers outside his realm.
Furthermore, since i dont have a bio i am posting scans for comparison.
Journey into the Mystery 627, Hell Lords and other extra-dimensional demons complain about Serpent, and this is what Mephisto replies when asked if he would like to join Nightmare in a fight against Serpent.
As per intelligence, in Marvel wiki Odin's intelligence is kept at 7 as well, but since i dont have an official bio with me lets let that slide. Intelligence is not going to help mephisto in this fight, why because there is no prep involved, sadly its a random encounter.
As I said his stats are In his Realm. i would never make a statemnt outside that. However his Intelegence is what the key factor of the scan. He is just so dang clever.
I dont think that actually counts as a feat. Hela incident is ok, fair enough, but she isnt the smartest one there. And Loki was actually playing the both of them together, even the Kid Loki. Thanos has done the same to Mephisto as well as Doom.
What i am trying to say is, while he is smart he is no Dr. Doom with prep, furthermore, there is no prep involved here.
That absolutely pales in comparison to what Odin can throw at him.
Odin vs Seth, shooked all realities.
In fact here Dr. Strange says it could have tore the very fabric of multiverse, thats the power ODin can release.
His feats are just better.
My Poit of the Hela Scans is he does Turn his Losses into Victories. also I wouldnt dream of Prep involved. He does do things on the fly many times. My Uriel scans for instance. Uriel was not part of Mephs plans at all with Nobel Kale yet he made it to his advantage in the end. He is just so dang clever.
His High Tier feats are better.
Yet his power is not inffinite at all. Thus the Odin sleep. Thanos is by NO means Seth level yet he can tank Odin rather easily.
Also Odin could NEVER get the better of Galactus.
Again hardly High Tier as you showed and more current too.
so Odin isnt so much Stronger. At least Mephisto beat Galactus in the battle of Powers in his Realm where Odin couldnt stop a Hungry Galactus all out.
Heck Odin with Destroyer Armour and all the Souls of Asgard in it couldnt best the 13th Host of Celestial. Franklin Richards is Celestial in power. Odin cant beat a couple of Franklin Richards?
So not to low ball but the average of Odin should match the average of Mephisto outside his realm.
He is clearly in Hades when he is making the claim, its just a mere claim not something he actually did.
You bio actually solidifies he gets weaker outside his realm, here is on panel evidence, as he clearly agrees to it
Not going to address the rest as its correct dont have much bearing but i would like to bring something more interesting to the table.
Skyfather can and has over-ridden his magic which is something Mephisto has to overcome.
Thunderstrike 15: Mephisto had tricked Thuderstrike into signing a contract that his soul would now belong to Mephisto, Odin easily nullified his contract with but a touch.
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A similar instance
Journey into the Mystery 631: All mother, easily lifted Mephisto's contract he had acquired on Hela and Hel (well Hela's hell as opposed to Hades or Hell)
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So what i am going at is, not only does Odin have better feats of powers, we know two things:
1. Skyfather have ability to over-ride Mephisto's power something that is going to play directly against him.
2. Mephisto himself admits fighting a skyfather headon would be "Lunacy" , the same skyfather Odin was shown beating twice in Fear Itself, and Thor shown killing using Odin's powers (Odin Sword, Ragnarok).
Other point like creating Demons:
1. Odin with a gesture in Fear Itself re-created Asgard.
2. Loki with a portion of Odin's power, throught Odin ring, created a being who was Thor's superior Durok, out of thin air.
So Odin himself has those powers.
Given superior showings, ability to over-ride Mephisto's powers, and has pretty much all his abilities bar the level of intelligence and planning, i say in a random encounter not only should Odin win, but Mephisto is clearly outmatched and outgunned.
As you read the top Scan the Contract was Nullified by a POWER EQUAL to his own. That says alot.
Also the Nullifying of contracts really mean nothing. Hulk has nullified a Contract as well Angels, Son of satan, and Roxanne (A mere Human!)
So Nullifying the Contracts isn't a show of power at all. Most Hell lords have had Contracts Nullified by Humans and they don't trump Helllords at all.
Also Mephisto cant die... ever.
As seen even with Mephisto DEAD and gone everyone knew he would return and soon.
Odin however like Bor can die and STAY Dead. He has a soul that can be claim by Hela and was Claim by Hela. So Odin < Hela. Truth be told. He didn't null void that contrct lol.
And did I mention Mephisto can take a soul without a contract?
Like poor Rogue found out.
Why should Odin be any different when his Soul been claimed and taken by Hela before?
So given Odin has lower end feats for a average result, has a soul that has been claimed by Helllords, and has to deal with the most powerful Helllord going all out in this case.... well Odin dont look so hot now.
This is again as I said a battle of Brute Power vs Unique Versatility.
As I said his stats are In his Realm. i would never make a statemnt outside that. However his Intelegence is what the key factor of the scan. He is just so dang clever.
What i am pointing out is, outside his realm he is very weak, and his power in his realm is inconsequential because this fight is not taking place in his realm.
Intelligence is also inconsequential as its a random encounter and no prep.
My Poit of the Hela Scans is he does Turn his Losses into Victories. also I wouldnt dream of Prep involved. He does do things on the fly many times. My Uriel scans for instance. Uriel was not part of Mephs plans at all with Nobel Kale yet he made it to his advantage in the end. He is just so dang clever.
What i am pointing is that is inconsequential and likely a simple boast. There is no pretending to lose and exploit victory in a head on encounter.
His High Tier feats are better.
Yet his power is not inffinite at all. Thus the Odin sleep. Thanos is by NO means Seth level yet he can tank Odin rather easily.
Average feats?
Odin has very little fights and he has always been shown to be pretty powerful.
The fight with Thanos was him under-estimating Thanos, and not even using his standard gear, Odin spear, gangrir.
Here's Mephisto's average showing:
Warlock Chronicles 03: Fought and beat Mephisto this wasnt in Hades of course.
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Warlock Chronicles 03: A pissed of Mephisto backed off when both Adam Warlock and Thanos asked him to well f#$k off
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We also have Mephisto too scared to even attack Thanos despite him having tricked him.
Outside his realm i am not even remotely convinced Mephisto is any better than Thanos, perhaps you can help.
Also thats not his only showing (Odin's), he did the same against Surtur, same against Infinity (not the abstract). His feats are just flat out much better.
Also Odin could NEVER get the better of Galactus.
Again hardly High Tier as you showed and more current too.
Neither can Mephisto. Galactus > Odin, also that was actually a fed galactus as opposed to a hungry one.
Since you strive for more current, here is his most current feat :) channeling powers from Sutur that was going to destroy the multiverse.
Still much , much better than what Mephisto has shown to operate on outside his realm.
Heck Odin with Destroyer Armour and all the Souls of Asgard in it couldnt best the 13th Host of Celestial. Franklin Richards is Celestial in power. Odin cant beat a couple of Franklin Richards?
You honestly think Mephisto would have a chance, outside his realm against Celestials O_o? Anything to suggest that?
So not to low ball but the average of Odin should match the average of Mephisto outside his realm.
No they dont. Showing against Thanos is him understating Thanos, the moment he bring in his standard gear Thanos is helpless. Showing against Galactus and Celestial, specially Arishiam, is fair for Odin, they are above Odin by a huge margin, hell lords cant do anything to Celestial or Galactus either, outside their realm.
As you read the top Scan the Contract was Nullified by a POWER EQUAL to his own. That says alot.
Also the Nullifying of contracts really mean nothing. Hulk has nullified a Contract as well Angels, Son of satan, and Roxanne (A mere Human!)
So Nullifying the Contracts isn't a show of power at all. Most Hell lords have had Contracts Nullified by Humans and they don't trump Helllords at all.
No it doesnt actually, firstly we know the contract was nullified. Secondly its likely he was talking about power in terms of souls. Thirdly, we have a direct confirmation, from Mephisto himself that he cant beat a skyfather head on, the same skyfather Odin has defeated twice.
Also i would like to see scans of Roxanne, or hulk nullifing Mephisto's contract , hopefully with issue number, because there has to be context involved.
Also Mephisto cant die... ever.
As seen even with Mephisto DEAD and gone everyone knew he would return and soon.
Odin however like Bor can die and STAY Dead. He has a soul that can be claim by Hela and was Claim by Hela. So Odin < Hela. Truth be told. He didn't null void that contrct lol.
Not sure how dying is relevant.
The bolded part is flat out false. There is a whole story arc, called Infinity where it was explained pretty clearly Hela cant claim ODin's soul so all she manage to do was steal a small portion of it, which she used to craft infinity.
Furthermore, Hela has been humilated, in Hel by Odin;s raven (will get the scans given me till tomorrow).
Odin is leagues and bounds above Hela.
And did I mention Mephisto can take a soul without a contract?
Like poor Rogue found out.
Why should Odin be any different when his Soul been claimed and taken by Hela before?
Not sure how this is relevant either.
Firstly no Hela has never claimed Odin's soul he can and always comes back to life when he pleases. Thats what happened when he was killed in the battle against Surtur.
Furthermore, Mephisto did try to claim Thor's soul and failed miserably. Same is true for Surfer and had to trick him to willingly give away his soul.
So given Odin has lower end feats for a average result, has a soul that has been claimed by Helllords, and has to deal with the most powerful Helllord going all out in this case.... well Odin dont look so hot now.
This is again as I said a battle of Brute Power vs Unique Versatility.
Low end feat would be when someone is defeated as opposed to under-estimate other. So no he doesnt have low end feat. Also if you really wanna use Thanos instance as low end feat, Mephisto power level would fall actually below Warlock and Thanos, and frankly i am not even remotely convinced he is more powerful than Thanos outside his realm.
Hela has never claimed Odins soul, in fact Odin comes back to life as he pleases.
Versatility means naught when you are outmatched. Odin power dwarf's Mephisto and we have till now seen nothing to suggest otherwise, you put up Mephisto's best feat, i can put up much better feats from ODin.
I am not talking about one feat, i can match number of feats from Mephisto through Odin, point was Mephisto is outmatched, as is all hell - lords against a skyfather outside his realm, it has always been shown.
If you want to contest this, come up with feats, and i can counter it.
What i am pointing out is, outside his realm he is very weak, and his power in his realm is inconsequential because this fight is not taking place in his realm.
Intelligence is also inconsequential as its a random encounter and no prep.
What i am pointing is that is inconsequential and likely a simple boast. There is no pretending to lose and exploit victory in a head on encounter.
This is where you are wrong my friend. Altho you may think this match as simple terms of a Boxing Match (Like most people do on threads) this is a Match with variables, no rules, and a whole world to play with.
What I prove thru Mephisto's style and feats is how he can easy beat a one dimensional brute like Odin who finds a enemy and blasts away his Odin force.
The Fact Mephisto can Freeze Time outside his Hellfire walls is a Key use in gaining all the time needed to plot the next move. Since Odin has no time stopping Resistance Feats I know of I see this as a Totally Viable Tactic. Also yes this was outside his Realm.
Average feats?
Odin has very little fights and he has always been shown to be pretty powerful.
The fight with Thanos was him under-estimating Thanos, and not even using his standard gear, Odin spear, gangrir.
Here's Mephisto's average showing:
Warlock Chronicles 03: Fought and beat Mephisto this wasnt in Hades of course.
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Warlock Chronicles 03: A pissed of Mephisto backed off when both Adam Warlock and Thanos asked him to well f#$koff
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We also have Mephisto too scared to even attack Thanos despite him having tricked him.
Outside his realm i am not even remotely convinced Mephisto is any better than Thanos, perhaps you can help.
Also thats not his only showing (Odin's), he did the same against Surtur, same against Infinity (not the abstract). His feats are just flat out much better.
Average feats? There is nothing Average about Mephisto losing to a Soul Gem carrying Adam Warlock. The soul gem that makes up 1/6 the Infinity Gauntlet?
Hows that a Lowball Showing without proper context ;)
Lets look at Mephisto on Average outside his Realm.
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Here is a weaken Mephisto outside his Realm. No competition.
Again Mephisto shows his Powers outside his Realm.
Neither can Mephisto. Galactus > Odin, also that was actually a fed galactus as opposed to a hungry one.
Since you strive for more current, here is his most current feat :) channeling powers from Sutur that was going to destroy the multiverse.
Still much , much better than what Mephisto has shown to operate on outside his realm.
Its cool fea that he redirected powers above his own. Point is Redirecting Power < Producing Power. I seen many people in comics redirect greater power than they can put out themselves.
You honestly think Mephisto would have a chance, outside his realm against Celestials O_o? Anything to suggest that?
N0 My point is merely Odin is not all powerful as Classic Strange.
Someone who Mephisto has ensnared in a magic bubble and toss aside like nothing.
No they dont. Showing against Thanos is him understating Thanos, the moment he bring in his standard gear Thanos is helpless. Showing against Galactus and Celestial, specially Arishiam, is fair for Odin, they are above Odin by a huge margin, hell lords cant do anything to Celestial or Galactus either, outside their realm.
That is my point. I merely corrected in the showings that Odin is some Multiversal powerhouse when infact he is more Galaxy buster. He is below Eldar Gods in power and he not much higher than most Helllords or Fearlords in feats. He is the most popular for sure but at times over steps his rank.
Another fun Fact is Odin needs Odin Sleep to recharge after these lengthy draining events. Mephisto power does not. Merely a trip to Hell and Back and hes recharge.
In this Fight Mephisto can easily do this.
No it doesnt actually, firstly we know the contract was nullified. Secondly its likely he was talking about power in terms of souls. Thirdly, we have a direct confirmation, from Mephisto himself that he cant beat a skyfather head on, the same skyfather Odin has defeated twice.
Also i would like to see scans of Roxanne, or hulk nullifing Mephisto's contract , hopefully with issue number, because there has to be context involved.
First off we have Contracts nullified by Humans and there not > to Mephisto. Secondly Souls are souls and many Claims are made on them other than Mephisto. Thirdly Mephisto CANT beat ODIN Head On.
That is correct. Mephisto cant win head on. Shocker....
So what is the point? The fact Mephisto WONT FIGHT HEAD ONE!
Not sure how dying is relevant.
The bolded part is flat out false. There is a whole story arc, called Infinity where it was explained pretty clearly Hela cant claim ODin's soul so all she manage to do was steal a small portion of it, which she used to craft infinity.
Furthermore, Hela has been humilated, in Hel by Odin;s raven (will get the scans given me till tomorrow).
Odin is leagues and bounds above Hela.
Well thats cool yet Odin has died and he has not come back AT ALL to save Asgard from Ragnarok in Thor Disassemble Novel I have. Infact after re reading it Odin wasn't in Helas Realm but still DEAD. He saved a Dead Odin Force Thor to boot!
Death Means alot as Odin can and has died!
Mephisto will just recollect in Hell and come back. In this battle with Minnions galore Mephisto can recolloect in seconds and come back for Rounds 2, 3, 100 till odin is dead. Fact. Just Like Blackheart shows.
Its really that simple.
Unfortunately when Odin Dies hes Dead. Mephisto can not die.
Not sure how this is relevant either.
Firstly no Hela has never claimed Odin's soul he can and always comes back to life when he pleases. Thats what happened when he was killed in the battle against Surtur.
Furthermore, Mephisto did try to claim Thor's soul and failed miserably. Same is true for Surfer and had to trick him to willingly give away his soul.
Wrong on all 3. You may be right on Helas claim on his soul. However If Odin can come back to life than why not just come back to life to help Thor deal with this?
As seen it says he DIES twice. It also says in the next Scan his Spirit Soars! He is dead and unable to come back to life.... so whats the deal? Also this scan clearly shows Odin is Summon by Thor! Like Odin couldn't have help without Thor writing the Rune!
Secondly Mephisto can Only CLAIM and KEEP a soul if he can corrupt it. He couldn't corrupt Surfer or Thor. Had nothing to do with Temporarly taking their Soul at all. He has done it all the time. Hes done it to Roxanne, Vengeance, Blaze, and Rogue.
Odin has a Soul and is not immune to a Temporarily Incaacitation or Death long enough to count for a win.
Low end feat would be when someone is defeated as opposed to under-estimate other. So no he doesnt have low end feat. Also if you really wanna use Thanos instance as low end feat, Mephisto power level would fall actually below Warlock and Thanos, and frankly i am not even remotely convinced he is more powerful than Thanos outside his realm.
Hela has never claimed Odins soul, in fact Odin comes back to life as he pleases.
Versatility means naught when you are outmatched. Odin power dwarf's Mephisto and we have till now seen nothing to suggest otherwise, you put up Mephisto's best feat, i can put up much better feats from ODin.
I am not talking about one feat, i can match number of feats from Mephisto through Odin, point was Mephisto is outmatched, as is all hell - lords against a skyfather outside his realm, it has always been shown.
If you want to contest this, come up with feats, and i can counter it.
1) Its a low End Feat and proof of Odin inability to adapt in a fight.
2) True that but Odin has died and has a Soul. The 2 things that are advantage to Mephisto.
3) Versatility means alot when Odin is a Brute with his power and 2 Dimensional compared to Mephisto's Feats and bag of Tricks. The Audience will decide what they see and read as the better. As I will continue to point out this match is not who has the bigger dick but what you can do with it that counts ;) (apologies to offend anyone but its the best description here lol)
4) As above.
Minions!
Now that’s cleared up lets look at another huge Advantage of Mephisto here. Minions! Odin has as you said created beings before and bestow power. However he rarely uses them as a tactic. He also bestows power to those who he can’t control.
The Minions under Mephisto have no more control of their actions as a sword or gun.
Lets look at some of these minions.
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Roulette. A GR villain from the early days. His Demon Powers included Massive Hellfire that Burns the Soul as well produce mass heat and teleport thru portal openings all over the place.
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Inferno the Fear Monger. Another Demon Mephisto sent to confront GR and gave the power to generate Fear in the Populace.
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Witch Woman. She was gifted with Hellfire powers like Ghost Rider and understood how to use them.
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Curly. Crash Simpson shape shifted by Mephisto and reborn with Hypnotic Power and Immortality.
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Suicide. A human who wanted the courage to kill himself. So Mephisto gave him Immortality and a Peak Human body as well.
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Arch Demon. This guy was imbued with a lot of Mephisto power to bring in GR once and for all. Key points here is how GR best blast didnt affect him at all. Grow in Size and Power. Created mass Volcanoes. In the end he couldn't break Blaze's spirit so had to back off.
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Then we Have Legion here who is merely tons of Demons that possesses a human body. Powers of Reality Manipulation is this Demons trademark! Lucky for GR Son of Satan was there to draw the Demons out and help banish them.
Or he can simply summon Hordes and Legions of Lesser Demons.
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He also imbue Demons and Souls with immortality or with more power like a Power Ranger Villain can his minions for the Cardboard Robo fight!
He does this more than a few times. Heck these Minions are pretty standard as well. Witch Woman, Fear Monger, Curly, and Suicide have appeared more than once ready to carry out Satan's Orders.
He can also take these Powers away as well.
Lets talk about Hellfire shall we. Odin as we both know has a SOUL! A good old Soul and no matter how powerful you are something like Mephisto can harm said soul easy with Hellfire.
Hellfire is the stuff that Witch Woman, Roulette, Arch Demon, and Mephisto himself have used. Its a Fire that burns the Soul as much the body and can be used to create Solid Fire Constructs.
Odin has no feats to suggest he is immune to Hellfire. The only person who showed resistance (key word) was Thor and Thor is only Half Asgardian and half Eldar God. Even then he only resisted it. Also it was from a far weaker GR. I think Mephisto’s Hellfire Output is a lot more destructive as is Witch Woman (who proved to understand it) and Roulette.
Next we have some of Mephistos Abilities as well.
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Scan 1: Phasing ability.
Scan 2: Possession of Humans to hide his true presence.
Scan 3: All seeing thru his own created Orbs. (in a battle like this he can easily know Odins actions all time all over the planet!)
Scan 4: Shape Shifting his Minions. (Important as he Mephisto and his Demons/Souls can take any form. Odin in a planet full of rioting people would never know who to attack or not!)
Scan 5-6: Increase his Size and Power put put to match foes much greater than himself. Beings Like Spirits of Vengeance.... oh yeah....
Added to this is a powerful weapon of Mephisto. Sword of Satan!
This Sword only purpose is to force a Soul into Mephisto's Realm and control with a Pierce. Since we know Odin has a soul......
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Mephisto has also Pierce the thoughts and fears of beings many times as well. As seen above nothing is beyond his sight and knowledge of the most intimate thoughts can lead to Illusion Casting to throw anyone's game off!
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Mephisto can Easily Teleport himself and other back to Hell and back easy.
Heck he has easily deflected the energies of Doom and Strange working together.
As seen many unique ways Mephisto has used for victories.
Summary
Odin is a Brick of a Magic user and a Blunt fighter. You said yourself show you any feat and you can show one better. In a typical boxing cage match then yes Odin would blatantly win. However Mephisto is the number 1 evil who has been apart of major events and match wits with the likes of Thanos, Beyonder, Doom, Strange, and Living Tribunal. He is a fighter who uses his resources more than most.
In this Scenario Odin has to compete with the Mass hordes of Demons. Minions with unique attack abilities and shape changing or body possessing characteristics. Most of them are straight Immortal. Also anytime Mephisto Needs a Recharge from his realm or reconfigure from a beat down his Presence and minions are there to keep fighting till he joins the fray again.
Mephisto himself has Time Freezing Feats and Phasing Feats. Neither I seen Odin feat wise counter or ever face at all.
Mephisto power is not weak. He is a multiple Planet wrecker who durability and blocking powerful blast from Doom and Strange are well within Odin's League Outside his Realm. many people think he has poor showings. He doesn't. It's just because he doesn't do well in a straight up fight which this isn't.
Mephisto has a Planet of Humans to work in his favore as well ways to attack Odin who in character won't destroy Earth at all. This give Mephisto the room and cushion needed to cause Human Possessions for his demons and himself to hide among should he need the breather and reassess the situation.
Mephisto can easily recharge in quick trips to Hell while portions of his power is left to battle on earth. He has ways of Recharging easy. If he was written right with his feats used as he had shown in the past he can easily out last Odin who has a set amount of Odin Force Power before he must enter Odin Sleep after exerting said power.
These are my many points of how Mephisto can win this should he put effort into it.
@GodDamnIronMan: Its funny.... it took me 4 hours of typing... eat something... Typing......watch the new Dark Knight Returns Part 2 with the son.... Typing some more.... watch Shipping wars with the wife... then finish typing.....
Anyway I hate long winded post ( I really do) but I felt the need to push Mephistos feats out there and cover the minions he uses.
This is where you are wrong my friend. Altho you may think this match as simple terms of a Boxing Match (Like most people do on threads) this is a Match with variables, no rules, and a whole world to play with.
This is nothing more than a boxing match, making it anything else would fall against you, because as a skyfather Odin not only has control over his pantheoen, Asgardia, he also has connection with Council of Godhead, someone he can summon, that 7 people with the same power level as Odin who have their own pantheon, so twist this around and its going to come against you.
What I prove thru Mephisto's style and feats is how he can easy beat a one dimensional brute like Odin who finds a enemy and blasts away his Odin force.
The Fact Mephisto can Freeze Time outside his Hellfire walls is a Key use in gaining all the time needed to plot the next move. Since Odin has no time stopping Resistance Feats I know of I see this as a Totally Viable Tactic. Also yes this was outside his Realm.
Not sure how this is consequential when Odin himself can stop time with no problem.
King Thor stopping time
Thor in classic days had time manipulation power given to him by Odin.
Journey Into the Mystery 86
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Average feats? There is nothing Average about Mephisto losing to a Soul Gem carrying Adam Warlock. The soul gem that makes up 1/6 the Infinity Gauntlet?
Hows that a Lowball Showing without proper context ;)
Then how you do explain him being outright scared of Thanos, thats where his power level lie.
Lets look at Mephisto on Average outside his Realm.
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Here is a weaken Mephisto outside his Realm. No competition.
Again Mephisto shows his Powers outside his Realm.
Those feats dont even put him above the like of Thanos.
Furthermore, feats to match those:
Thor 185: Fighting Infinity, and destroying galaxies
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New Mutants 31: Fight and beating Serpent, he did this against in The Mighty Thor 05
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And this is what Mephisto though about a fight with Serpent
Mighty Thor 196: Destroying a planet with a wave of his hand.
In short Odin has far better feats than Mephisto, ergo he wins.
N0 My point is merely Odin is not all powerful as Classic Strange.
Someone who Mephisto has ensnared in a magic bubble and toss aside like nothing.
If you read your scan it clearly says my dimension (aka Hades).
A feat performed in Hades is inconsequential as his powers are greater than.
Furthermore, Classic Strange himself admitting Loki is more powerful than him :)
Strange Tales 123: Loki in his spirit form, is still more powerful than Classic Strange
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.
That is my point. I merely corrected in the showings that Odin is some Multiversal powerhouse when infact he is more Galaxy buster. He is below Eldar Gods in power and he not much higher than most Helllords or Fearlords in feats. He is the most popular for sure but at times over steps his rank.
Another fun Fact is Odin needs Odin Sleep to recharge after these lengthy draining events. Mephisto power does not. Merely a trip to Hell and Back and hes recharge.
In this Fight Mephisto can easily do this.
Elder gods have never fought a skyfather, but are likely above them.
You are using a showing against Galactus and Celestial to suggest Mephisto is on same ball park as Odin, here is what a Galactus level being did to Mephisto.
In short Mephisto is just not comparable to that weight class.
First off we have Contracts nullified by Humans and there not > to Mephisto. Secondly Souls are souls and many Claims are made on them other than Mephisto. Thirdly Mephisto CANT beat ODIN Head On.
That is correct. Mephisto cant win head on. Shocker....
So what is the point? The fact Mephisto WONT FIGHT HEAD ONE!
I will answer to this once you provide me issue number and scan, because without a context, people cant simply void Mephisto contract at will. Skyfathers doing so certainly shown they have power level to over-rider Mephisto's powers.
Furthermore, the reason i believe Odin wins is because:
1. ODin has better feats.
2. MEphisto by his own admission cannot fight Serpent, the same dude Odin beat.
3. Mephisto and Odin has fought in Hades in a what if, story arc and Odin won, easily.
He simply is more powerful.
Well thats cool yet Odin has died and he has not come back AT ALL to save Asgard from Ragnarok in Thor Disassemble Novel I have. Infact after re reading it Odin wasn't in Helas Realm but still DEAD. He saved a Dead Odin Force Thor to boot!
Death Means alot as Odin can and has died!
Firstly Odin was killed in his fight with Surtur, so evidence to suggest Mephisto outside his realm could do that.
Furthermore, ODin did come back to life, one his own accord, right before Fear Itself. Refutes your point i would say.
Also being able to die is inconsequential. Scarier can die, so can Galactus, and we saw how Scarier humilated Mephisto outside his realm. While they are still above Odin, we dont expect the fight to be that short, at least Odin did knock Galactus out for a short time.
Mephisto will just recollect in Hell and come back. In this battle with Minnions galore Mephisto can recolloect in seconds and come back for Rounds 2, 3, 100 till odin is dead. Fact. Just Like Blackheart shows.
Its really that simple.
Unfortunately when Odin Dies hes Dead. Mephisto can not die.
A feat performed in Hades is inconsequential.
Wrong on all 3. You may be right on Helas claim on his soul. However If Odin can come back to life than why not just come back to life to help Thor deal with this?
As seen it says he DIES twice. It also says in the next Scan his Spirit Soars! He is dead and unable to come back to life.... so whats the deal? Also this scan clearly shows Odin is Summon by Thor! Like Odin couldn't have help without Thor writing the Rune!
Secondly Mephisto can Only CLAIM and KEEP a soul if he can corrupt it. He couldn't corrupt Surfer or Thor. Had nothing to do with Temporarly taking their Soul at all. He has done it all the time. Hes done it to Roxanne, Vengeance, Blaze, and Rogue.
Odin has a Soul and is not immune to a Temporarily Incaacitation or Death long enough to count for a win.
1. ODin didnt come back to life because of Plot.
2. You are using a scan when Hela is unable to claim Thor soul because Odin shows up to suggest Mephisto can claim his soul.
3. ODin died in a fair fight against Surtur, nothing to suggest Mephisto can take his soul.
4. Like i said this is what happened when Mephisto tried to take Thor's soul, in Hades, give me a reason why same wouldnt be true for Odin?
nd Celestial to suggest Mephisto is on same ball park as Odin, here is what a Galactus level being did to Mephisto.
1) Its a low End Feat and proof of Odin inability to adapt in a fight.
2) True that but Odin has died and has a Soul. The 2 things that are advantage to Mephisto.
3) Versatility means alot when Odin is a Brute with his power and 2 Dimensional compared to Mephisto's Feats and bag of Tricks. The Audience will decide what they see and read as the better. As I will continue to point out this match is not who has the bigger dick but what you can do with it that counts ;) (apologies to offend anyone but its the best description here lol)
4) As above.
1. Proof that Mephisto could do any better to Thanos.
2. Proof that Mephisto can take Odin's soul or kill him. Hela cant, Mephisto cant do that to Thor, why should it be true to ODin?
3. 2 Dimensional brick who can warp reality, create a planet out a nothing, stop time, erase people from existence, matter manipulate, energy manipulation, thats a brick? You have yet to show anything that remotely suggest Mephisto is capable of matching ODin.
4. Lack of feat means Odin wins.
Minions!
Now that’s cleared up lets look at another huge Advantage of Mephisto here. Minions! Odin has as you said created beings before and bestow power. However he rarely uses them as a tactic. He also bestows power to those who he can’t control.
The Minions under Mephisto have no more control of their actions as a sword or gun.
Lets look at some of these minions.
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Roulette. A GR villain from the early days. His Demon Powers included Massive Hellfire that Burns the Soul as well produce mass heat and teleport thru portal openings all over the place.
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Inferno the Fear Monger. Another Demon Mephisto sent to confront GR and gave the power to generate Fear in the Populace.
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Witch Woman. She was gifted with Hellfire powers like Ghost Rider and understood how to use them.
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Curly. Crash Simpson shape shifted by Mephisto and reborn with Hypnotic Power and Immortality.
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Suicide. A human who wanted the courage to kill himself. So Mephisto gave him Immortality and a Peak Human body as well.
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Arch Demon. This guy was imbued with a lot of Mephisto power to bring in GR once and for all. Key points here is how GR best blast didnt affect him at all. Grow in Size and Power. Created mass Volcanoes. In the end he couldn't break Blaze's spirit so had to back off.
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Then we Have Legion here who is merely tons of Demons that possesses a human body. Powers of Reality Manipulation is this Demons trademark! Lucky for GR Son of Satan was there to draw the Demons out and help banish them.
Or he can simply summon Hordes and Legions of Lesser Demons.
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He also imbue Demons and Souls with immortality or with more power like a Power Ranger Villain can his minions for the Cardboard Robo fight!
He does this more than a few times. Heck these Minions are pretty standard as well. Witch Woman, Fear Monger, Curly, and Suicide have appeared more than once ready to carry out Satan's Orders.
He can also take these Powers away as well.
Lets talk about Hellfire shall we. Odin as we both know has a SOUL! A good old Soul and no matter how powerful you are something like Mephisto can harm said soul easy with Hellfire.
Hellfire is the stuff that Witch Woman, Roulette, Arch Demon, and Mephisto himself have used. Its a Fire that burns the Soul as much the body and can be used to create Solid Fire Constructs.
Odin has no feats to suggest he is immune to Hellfire. The only person who showed resistance (key word) was Thor and Thor is only Half Asgardian and half Eldar God. Even then he only resisted it. Also it was from a far weaker GR. I think Mephisto’s Hellfire Output is a lot more destructive as is Witch Woman (who proved to understand it) and Roulette.
Next we have some of Mephistos Abilities as well.
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Scan 1: Phasing ability.
Scan 2: Possession of Humans to hide his true presence.
Scan 3: All seeing thru his own created Orbs. (in a battle like this he can easily know Odins actions all time all over the planet!)
Scan 4: Shape Shifting his Minions. (Important as he Mephisto and his Demons/Souls can take any form. Odin in a planet full of rioting people would never know who to attack or not!)
Scan 5-6: Increase his Size and Power put put to match foes much greater than himself. Beings Like Spirits of Vengeance.... oh yeah....
Added to this is a powerful weapon of Mephisto. Sword of Satan!
This Sword only purpose is to force a Soul into Mephisto's Realm and control with a Pierce. Since we know Odin has a soul......
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Mephisto has also Pierce the thoughts and fears of beings many times as well. As seen above nothing is beyond his sight and knowledge of the most intimate thoughts can lead to Illusion Casting to throw anyone's game off!
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Mephisto can Easily Teleport himself and other back to Hell and back easy.
Heck he has easily deflected the energies of Doom and Strange working together.
As seen many unique ways Mephisto has used for victories.
\
None of this counts.
1. None of them minions have feat even close to Odin.
2. Swords that are not a part of a standard gear is inconsequential, as Odin has access to plenty of godly artificat through Asgard value, or throught Council of Godheads.
\
Summary
Odin is a Brick of a Magic user and a Blunt fighter. You said yourself show you any feat and you can show one better. In a typical boxing cage match then yes Odin would blatantly win. However Mephisto is the number 1 evil who has been apart of major events and match wits with the likes of Thanos, Beyonder, Doom, Strange, and Living Tribunal. He is a fighter who uses his resources more than most.
In this Scenario Odin has to compete with the Mass hordes of Demons. Minions with unique attack abilities and shape changing or body possessing characteristics. Most of them are straight Immortal. Also anytime Mephisto Needs a Recharge from his realm or reconfigure from a beat down his Presence and minions are there to keep fighting till he joins the fray again.
Mephisto himself has Time Freezing Feats and Phasing Feats. Neither I seen Odin feat wise counter or ever face at all.
Mephisto power is not weak. He is a multiple Planet wrecker who durability and blocking powerful blast from Doom and Strange are well within Odin's League Outside his Realm. many people think he has poor showings. He doesn't. It's just because he doesn't do well in a straight up fight which this isn't.
Mephisto has a Planet of Humans to work in his favore as well ways to attack Odin who in character won't destroy Earth at all. This give Mephisto the room and cushion needed to cause Human Possessions for his demons and himself to hide among should he need the breather and reassess the situation.
Mephisto can easily recharge in quick trips to Hell while portions of his power is left to battle on earth. He has ways of Recharging easy. If he was written right with his feats used as he had shown in the past he can easily out last Odin who has a set amount of Odin Force Power before he must enter Odin Sleep after exerting said power.
These are my many points of how Mephisto can win this should he put effort into it.
1. So is Scarier who swatted Mephisto like a bug.
2. Being number one evil means absolutely nothing. And apart from Strange Mephisto hasnt beaten or even come close to beating anyone else on the list.
3. Odin is fighitng Mephisto and Mephisto alone not his army, else ODin has his army and a group a peer who individually have their own army, inconsequential.
4. ODin has time freezing ability as well as minor reality warping.
5. Mephisto is indeed very very weak if you compare him in like with Galactus, and Odin faired much better against them. Furthermore, Mephisto himself admitted fighting a skyfather is ludacris.
6. ODin has an entire universe ASgardia inconsequential.
7. Recharge? Anything to suggest Mephisto would not be outright defeated, as feats you put it are below even planetary for mephisto, while ODin at the least has galaxy level feats. Furthermore, Odin has ability to banish people like he did against Surtur (more on that later).
8. Based on points you have brought thus far, nothing suggest Mephisto can even hang with ODin.
This is nothing more than a boxing match, making it anything else would fall against you, because as a skyfather Odin not only has control over his pantheoen, Asgardia, he also has connection with Council of Godhead, someone he can summon, that 7 people with the same power level as Odin who have their own pantheon, so twist this around and its going to come against you.
No it wont. Your cant have the resources of Gods head and Soliders of Asgard either. None of that. why? Cause Odin would be calling on outside forces. Those things have Free Will, Choice, and Character. They are Clearly outside Help. As I stated earlier Mephistos Demons are no more outside Help the than Darkness Darklings!
Thats the key difference here, and you cant turn this around without admitting outside help.
Not sure how this is consequential when Odin himself can stop time with no problem.
King Thor stopping time
All you prove is Thor can go back and forth in time.
So can these guys.
No where have you prove a showing or immunity to Time Stop.
Then how you do explain him being outright scared of Thanos, thats where his power level lie.
Same Reason why Hulk thought he beat Mephisto. It was all apart of the plan lol.
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So considering every seeming loss was a plan in 80% of Mephisto Jobbing showings why should I take the Thanos feat at face value?
I already Prove Thanos would get stomp by Mephisto in a straight up match.
Time Stop
Phasing
Demon Hordes
Hellfire
BFR into Hell
Soul Stealing
and much more Pwns Thanos.
Those feats dont even put him above the like of Thanos.
Furthermore, feats to match those:
LOL right right.... I will let others decide for themselves just how far Thanos Mephisto is outside his realm..
In short Odin has far better feats than Mephisto, ergo he wins.
Wrong. All you proven TIME and AGAIN is Odin is a Brute like Hulk in his power weilding. What I keep proving is Mephisto is Dr. Strange like with a Multitude of Powers and tricks to use or summon.
If you read your scan it clearly says my dimension (aka Hades).
A feat performed in Hades is inconsequential as his powers are greater than.
Furthermore, Classic Strange himself admitting Loki is more powerful than him :)
Again you miss the point. Mephisto gets crush, destroyed, whatever he reconfigures in hades. Period. Then he can simply rejoin the fight. Odin dies... he dies...
Also since I have proven Mephisto can spread his power and self thru his Demons he can reconfigure in hell 100 times over while his Demons fight till he returns granting Odin no real way of winning.
Elder gods have never fought a skyfather, but are likely above them.
You are using a showing against Galactus and Celestial to suggest Mephisto is on same ball park as Odin, here is what a Galactus level being did to Mephisto.
In short Mephisto is just not comparable to that weight class.
Indeed. Vishanti, Chthon, and Sett are all above Odin period.
Mephisto has shown to be around the ball park of Odin and does not need to recharge with Odin Sleep as well truly Omnipotent in his realm.
I will answer to this once you provide me issue number and scan, because without a context, people cant simply void Mephisto contract at will. Skyfathers doing so certainly shown they have power level to over-rider Mephisto's powers.
Furthermore, the reason i believe Odin wins is because:
1. ODin has better feats.
2. MEphisto by his own admission cannot fight Serpent, the same dude Odin beat.
3. Mephisto and Odin has fought in Hades in a what if, story arc and Odin won, easily.
He simply is more powerful.
Firstly Odin was killed in his fight with Surtur, so evidence to suggest Mephisto outside his realm could do that.
Furthermore, ODin did come back to life, one his own accord, right before Fear Itself. Refutes your point i would say.
Also being able to die is inconsequential. Scarier can die, so can Galactus, and we saw how Scarier humilated Mephisto outside his realm. While they are still above Odin, we dont expect the fight to be that short, at least Odin did knock Galactus out for a short time.
1) No they dont. They have stronger Power showings in blasts and what not but not in versatility of Powers.
2) Mephisto also easily overpower Galactus in his Realm in a straight fight where Odin KO himself going all out. Mephisto has bested Classic Strange where Odin been tied up by Dormammu and Thanos! Mephisto has Taking on a Spirit of Vengeance Zarathos with a simple plan made on the spot.
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This is the same Zarathos that force the Midnight Sons (GR, Vengeance, Blade, Blaze, and Dr. Strange) on the run!
3) What if are completly not cannon and What If stories are filled with PIS as well. So who cares?
He simply has less ways to win. He is a brute and nothing more.
Odin died against Surtur. Point is he died.
Odin came back on his own accord... for Fear Itself... did they explain how or why or was it simply retcon Plot Driven?
Odin KO Galactus and was KO. Galactus couldn't beat Mephisto at his best and had to feed on his realm to do anything.
I showed Mephisto beating Silver Surfer, Zarathos, and Dr. Strange. The title skyfather is bigger than the feats at times and Hellords are undercut by their jobbing because they are the bad guys that must loose.
A feat performed in Hades is inconsequential.
A feat perform proving Odin cant put down Mephisto who will reform in Hell and return full power back to the fight is important. His Demons are there fighting for him and a portion of his power is continuing the battle while his main from instantly reforms. Thats a big deal.
1. ODin didnt come back to life because of Plot.
2. You are using a scan when Hela is unable to claim Thor soul because Odin shows up to suggest Mephisto can claim his soul.
3. ODin died in a fair fight against Surtur, nothing to suggest Mephisto can take his soul.
4. Like i said this is what happened when Mephisto tried to take Thor's soul, in Hades, give me a reason why same wouldnt be true for Odin?
1) How Convenient....
2) No I am not. im proving Odin Force (source of ALL Odins powers really) didnt keep Thor from being claim. My proof is simply Skyfathers can die and HAVE SOULS!
3) I never said Mephisto would try and claim Odins Soul. Why do you keep bringing this up? I said Odin Soul is a downfall cause Mephisto can manipulate Souls with or without consent and has Soul Burning attacks as well able to peer into souls!
4) Who cares? Im not trying to take a soul. Only attack it.
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Heck a mere RIB from Mephisto can unmake anyones soul. including a Spirit of Vengeance like Nobel Kale. BAMSKY!
1. Proof that Mephisto could do any better to Thanos.
2. Proof that Mephisto can take Odin's soul or kill him. Hela cant, Mephisto cant do that to Thor, why should it be true to ODin?
3. 2 Dimensional brick who can warp reality, create a planet out a nothing, stop time, erase people from existence, matter manipulate, energy manipulation, thats a brick? You have yet to show anything that remotely suggest Mephisto is capable of matching ODin.
4. Lack of feat means Odin wins.
1. I showed such much proof you chose to ignore it. Way more powers and Soul attacks.
2. Because Mephisto has done it to Spirit of Vengeance, Souls he has no contracts with, and other Heros. He couldnt claim Thor or anyone good wise cause like Dr. Doom he has to Jobb to the good guys. Fact. I proved thru scan what he has and could do if given the chance to shine.
3. Odin NEVER Stop Time lol. He moved back and forth and that is it. Thats all you proven. Mephisto does this as well as well Stop Time. Everything you listed Mephisto has done or can do. Odin is a Brick because he doesn't use these powers in battle. Mephisto does.
4. Lack of Versatility Feats mean Mephisto wins.
None of this counts. 1. None of them minions have feat even close to Odin. 2. Swords that are not a part of a standard gear is inconsequential, as Odin has access to plenty of godly artificat through Asgard value, or throught Council of Godheads. \
LOL again the point of the Demons is not to stop Odin. Merely keep battering him with SOUL BURNING attacks. As well continue a battle where Mephisto can recharge. Thay are a constant threat as a Ice Giant army can be to a weaken Odin. They are there like the Darklings are for the Darkness comics.
The Sword of Satan was standard Gear for Mephisto in Ghost Rider Comics. Fact. Deal with it.
You can downplay Mephisto all you want but the fact remains Mephisto never had reason to go all out. And against Heros or Big Events he is a Jobber or simply written to stay out of the way.
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Mephisto outside his realm is a Casual Planet Buster and can tank said attacks. He is more a Immortal than Odin who has died and needed Plot Devices or Big Events to come back to life.
You still never gave me a answer or feats of Odin being immune to Time Stopping, Soul Attacks, Attacking Someone who can Phase, or not be off balance from Hordes of Demons and some of them really powerful as well Immortal themselves.
Mephisto also shown he can BFR himself and others anywhere including Odin to Hell if it really came down to it. He can also use the Populace as collateral against Odin who has more sense of morals than Mephisto ever will.
So to Recap.
Mephisto has Immortal demons on his side and hordes of them.
Mephisto can Phase, Possessed Humans, Shape Change, Time Stop, or cast Illusions to avoid attacks.
Mephisto power is enough to bust Planets alone and take Planet busting attacks with ease. As well Reform in hell or BFR Odin to Hell with him for a recharge and deal more damage.
Mephisto has many ways to look into and attacks the soul. Odin has a Soul and never showed any immunity to such devices himself. Your feats are mostly Thor who is Half Asgardian and Eldar God. Not even comparable to Odin at all.
Mephisto has shown the Indigence and Tactics that put him as the number 1 Devil in Marvel Universes. He is way more clever and resourceful than Odin who simply tanks attacks and swing his power around like the Viking barbarian he is.
No it wont. Your cant have the resources of Gods head and Soliders of Asgard either. None of that. why? Cause Odin would be calling on outside forces. Those things have Free Will, Choice, and Character. They are Clearly outside Help. As I stated earlier Mephistos Demons are no more outside Help the than Darkness Darklings!
Thats the key difference here, and you cant turn this around without admitting outside help.
I dont understand calling on Asgardians is outside help when Odin created all of Asgard and Asgardian universe entire?
Entire Asgard is Odin's own creation, everyone there was created by Odin, and hence the ALL Father.
If Mephisto is allowed to call upon his demons, i see absolutely no reason why the same would not apply for Odin.
And no there is NO key difference.
All you prove is Thor can go back and forth in time.
So can these guys.
No where have you prove a showing or immunity to Time Stop.
Re-read the first set of scans.
Thor uses Odin Force to stop time, everyone one is still apart from Thor. Everyone is still, he touches them, then moves to the past. Its not time travel.
The point i showed the second set of scans was because Thor actually gained time manipulation powers from Odin, he has stopped time on his own in the past. Thor no longer has this ability though since it was taken away officially.
Here using the power Odin gave him , which was the set of scans i showed you, he actually stops time in a building, while time flows perfectly outside.
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Same Reason why Hulk thought he beat Mephisto. It was all apart of the plan lol.
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So considering every seeming loss was a plan in 80% of Mephisto Jobbing showings why should I take the Thanos feat at face value?
The reason you would take Thanos's showing at face value is, Mephisto has neither shown destructive abilities nor has he shown durability outside on Hades that would surpass Thanos. Furthermore, that was me drawing a comparision between Thanos vs Odin and Thanos vs Mephisto, in one instance he was clearly beaten despite Odin under-estimating him, and in the other Mephisto was scared backed off. Furthermore, Thanos tricks him by giving him an incomplete cosmic cube, he is still too scared to actually fight back. That is two instance in 1 story arc.
I already Prove Thanos would get stomp by Mephisto in a straight up match.
Time Stop
Phasing
Demon Hordes
Hellfire
BFR into Hell
Soul Stealing
and much more Pwns Thanos.
Not really. While his abilities put to best use would likely be above Thanos's its offensive abilities like blast and defensive are below him, as per feat.
Furthermore, this is inconsequential against Odin why:
1. He can stop time himself.
2. Phasing is good but Odin could simply blast him into obvilion.
3. Demon Horders - Odin has entire Asgardian army
4. Hellfire is counter by Odin Force blast, he is durability to tank multiple galaxy busting blast, tank hits from Surtur , i dont see how hellfire would work.
5. BFR to hell, Odin has teleportation.
6. Soul stealing, nothing to suggest if Hela cant take Odin soul forcefully why should that be true for Mephisto?
Lastly, that was Starlin's book, in Starlin's book no one bar Galactus level being has what it takes to beat thanos ;)
Wrong. All you proven TIME and AGAIN is Odin is a Brute like Hulk in his power weilding. What I keep proving is Mephisto is Dr. Strange like with a Multitude of Powers and tricks to use or summon.
Odin doesnt use most of his abilities in a battle, because he did not have to use it before. Why should Mephisto be any different, its not like his powers rival that of Odin or anything.
Mephisto with prep would be a different story, he doesnt have prep here.
Again you miss the point. Mephisto gets crush, destroyed, whatever he reconfigures in hades. Period. Then he can simply rejoin the fight. Odin dies... he dies...
Also since I have proven Mephisto can spread his power and self thru his Demons he can reconfigure in hell 100 times over while his Demons fight till he returns granting Odin no real way of winning.
You are missing the point actually. Odin could just floor Mephisto with 1 blast, and be done with it, without having to worry about him going back to Hades.
Both Hell Lords, and its not like Mephisto, outside his realm has anything to suggest he is any more powerful than Hela. Its going to be a repeat performance all over again.
Indeed. Vishanti, Chthon, and Sett are all above Odin period.
Mephisto has shown to be around the ball park of Odin and does not need to recharge with Odin Sleep as well truly Omnipotent in his realm.
The first part i agree the second part not so much.
Mephisto has been shown to be same ball park around Odin?
An instance of Mephisto rocking the multiverse as a side effect of his fight?
An instance of Mephisto destroying galaxies as a side effect of his fight?
Thor 185: Fighting Infinity, and destroying galaxies
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An instance of Mephisto making 9 works shake with 1 blast?
An instance of Mephisto destroying a planet with but a wave of his hand?
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An instance of Mephisto beating a guy capable of busting Galaxies like Surtur?
The reason i believe Odin can and will beat Mephisto outside Hades are for the following reasons.
1. Odin has FAR better feats than Mephisto as detailed below
An instance of Mephisto rocking the multiverse as a side effect of his fight?
An instance of Mephisto destroying galaxies as a side effect of his fight?
Thor 185: Fighting Infinity, and destroying galaxies
Gallery
An instance of Mephisto making 9 works shake with 1 blast?
An instance of Mephisto destroying a planet with but a wave of his hand?
Gallery
An instance of Mephisto beating a guy capable of busting Galaxies like Surtur?
Surtur busting Galaxies.
Beating Surtur
Journey into the Mystery 99
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Journey into the Mystery 104
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There are a lot more.
2. Not only does he have better feats we have an outright confirmation from Mephisto that he cant fight a skyfather.
And this is what Mephisto though about a fight with Serpent
And this is ODin vs Serpent
New Mutants 31: Fight and beating Serpent, he did this against in The Mighty Thor 05
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3. Odin and skyfather has shown they can negate Mephisto's power by taking away a contract against his will
Thunderstrike 15: Mephisto had tricked Thuderstrike into signing a contract that his soul would now belong to Mephisto, Odin easily nullified his contract with but a touch.
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A similar instance
Journey into the Mystery 631: All mother, easily lifted Mephisto's contract he had acquired on Hela and Hel (well Hela's hell as opposed to Hades or Hell)
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So what i am going at is, not only does Odin have better feats of powers, we know two things:
4. Odin has fought and beaten heck ONE SHOTTED a Hell Lord (Hela) who is on par with Mephisto
Odin could just floor Mephisto with 1 blast, and be done with it, without having to worry about him going back to Hades.
5. When they fought in a what IF, ODin beat Mephisto (NON canon)
Odin without the Odin force defeats Mephisto. in Mephisto's realm.
6. Mephisto couldnt even touch Thor's soul so I see no reason to believe it would be any different against Odin.
In conclusion, Marvel clearly puts a Skyfather above HELL LORDS so i see no reason why this fight should directly exclude a well established hierarchy of marvel
Killemall. To me, Cadence's argument was basically showing off Mephisto's range of abilities and ignoring the fact that all those abilities have never been exhibited on a scale that indicates Odin has anything to worry about.
Going with Killermale, loved the summary and totally agree with this
@CitizenBane said:
Killemall. To me, Cadence's argument was basically showing off Mephisto's range of abilities and ignoring the fact that all those abilities have never been exhibited on a scale that indicates Odin has anything to worry about.
@CadenceV2: That was a pretty heated debate aye :). Best of luck to you (as well as me) lets see how this goes. Regardless of who wins or loses i had fun, i hope you did too. Apologies if i ever came across too rude or strong, i hope you understand, I respect you as a debator, love the amount of scan you pour into and hope to debate alongside you a lot more often (debating against you is seriously hard).
"2. Mephisto himself admits fighting a skyfather headon would be "Lunacy" , the same skyfather Odin was shown beating twice in Fear Itself, and Thor shown killing using Odin's powers (Odin Sword, Ragnarok)."
Sorry for bothering you, and iteruptting the debate, but when has Odin fought Serpent? I thought only Thor did?
I dont understand calling on Asgardians is outside help when Odin created all of Asgard and Asgardian universe entire?
Entire Asgard is Odin's own creation, everyone there was created by Odin, and hence the ALL Father.
If Mephisto is allowed to call upon his demons, i see absolutely no reason why the same would not apply for Odin.
And no there is NO key difference.
II posted the Difference. the Key Difference. All thru Ghost Rider Comics up to today Mephisto has and will always create Demons and bestow them with power or re use Demons he has used already and given them life or Possession to act as his weapons.
Demons and Claim Souls are mere weapons to be used. They have no choice or thought or purpose other than being used by Mephisto.
Odin also didnt create Asgarad at all. Infact he had 3 Brothers and forge it.
also there is many Bull***t lies in this cannon.
1) Galactus was the first being. Fact.
2) Odin created mankind? LOL not according to GR cannon that the Christain God (who the Marvel angels serve) did.
3) Asgard is pretty small unlike Mephistos Hell realm.
4) Odin created Asgard with the body of Ymir. Mephisto simply created his Realm.
Bor was Odins father and Skyfather as well. What did he rule before Dsgard? Mud? Ymirs chest hair? Or Asgard as well?
Fact is All of the Asgardians have...
1) Free Will
2) Choice
3) Powers and creation not of Odin
Thats outside help. Mephisto Demons...
1) Have no free will
2) No choice
3) Created and Powers all bestowed by Mephisto
Thus they're more Weapons or Gear for Mephisto as a K-9 Dog is to a Cop.
Thats the Difference and why they are minions!
All you prove is Thor can go back and forth in time.
So can these guys.
No where have you prove a showing or immunity to Time Stop.
Alright I see that part now.
So time stop wont be a factor.
However you do use Thor feats as Odins possible feats. If we play that game waht Keep Mephisto from Teleporting around the Battlefield like his Demon Roulette?
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Hypnotic Gaze like Curly?
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Or generating Mass Fear into Odin like Fear Monger?
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Or the use of Turning a Whole Room into Hell to allow Mephisto to recharge himself and be untouchable like Legion does here?
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I wasnt going to say mephisto would do these things as they are Feat of his Demons whose powers he bestow on them, but since were relating Odin Force Thor powers to Odin why not Mephisto's Demons powers to Mephisto.
Heck why cant I use Feats from Blackheart as Hell Lord? Or Santannish? Or Maduk Kruis? Or Son of Satan? Or Lucifer? All are near equal Hell lords... they have the same basic power from Hell....
My point is Thor Feats are not his Fathers.
The reason you would take Thanos's showing at face value is, Mephisto has neither shown destructive abilities nor has he shown durability outside on Hades that would surpass Thanos. Furthermore, that was me drawing a comparision between Thanos vs Odin and Thanos vs Mephisto, in one instance he was clearly beaten despite Odin under-estimating him, and in the other Mephisto was scared backed off. Furthermore, Thanos tricks him by giving him an incomplete cosmic cube, he is still too scared to actually fight back. That is two instance in 1 story arc.
So Thanos beats Mephisto. Odin beat Thanos. Abc Logic? Yes it is. Thats like saying Ghost rider beaten dr. Strange. Dr. Strange beaten Dormammu. So I guess zarathos is Dormammus level now? No.....
ABC Logic.
Not really. While his abilities put to best use would likely be above Thanos's its offensive abilities like blast and defensive are below him, as per feat.
Furthermore, this is inconsequential against Odin why:
1. He can stop time himself.
2. Phasing is good but Odin could simply blast him into obvilion.
3. Demon Horders - Odin has entire Asgardian army
4. Hellfire is counter by Odin Force blast, he is durability to tank multiple galaxy busting blast, tank hits from Surtur , i dont see how hellfire would work.
5. BFR to hell, Odin has teleportation.
6. Soul stealing, nothing to suggest if Hela cant take Odin soul forcefully why should that be true for Mephisto?
Lastly, that was Starlin's book, in Starlin's book no one bar Galactus level being has what it takes to beat thanos ;)
Not really. While his abilities put to best use would likely be above Thanos's its offensive abilities like blast and defensive are below him, as per feat.
Furthermore, this is inconsequential against Odin why:
1. I think Thor shown that only but I suppose its fair to say Odin should as well.
2. Still disagree as Odin showed no feats blasting Intangibility.
3. demon Hordes as I pointed out are a Weapon where the Asgard Army is not in the slightest. They are Outside help and not made soley of Odin power or from it. Asgardians are born and raised with families. Not created from Odin's Odin Force on a whim like the Demons and Claim Souls.
4. Hellfire is not as strong as a Cosmic Blast and doesn't need to be. it attacks the Soul which Odin has no Resistance feats to counter.
5. True. Point is its a good way for Mephisto to stay Charged up as well as doing what Legion does and create pockets where Mephistos Realm exist on the Planet.
6. I will let that one go as per Hela couldn't.
Thanos like Superman had his silver Age days and now not so much.
Odin doesnt use most of his abilities in a battle, because he did not have to use it before. Why should Mephisto be any different, its not like his powers rival that of Odin or anything.
Mephisto with prep would be a different story, he doesnt have prep here.
Mephisto can always form a plan. I proven how smart he is on the fly as well the many ways he can continue fighting Odin while either A) Traveling to his Realm for Recharge or B) Create a Pocket Zone on Earth where he is omnipotent by crossing Hell over Reality. All this makes a difference too since Mephisto demons are attacking and being created on his behalf. Odin never had to fight someone like that before.
You are missing the point actually. Odin could just floor Mephisto with 1 blast, and be done with it, without having to worry about him going back to Hades.
Both Hell Lords, and its not like Mephisto, outside his realm has anything to suggest he is any more powerful than Hela. Its going to be a repeat performance all over again.
Hela feats are inferior to Mephisto by a large margin. Also Hela as well all the other Helllords have nearly lost their realms to Mephisto from one point or another. The 6 Finger Hand being a Exceptional Arc with Mephisto nearly claiming all the Helllords Realms and Earth.
The first part i agree the second part not so much.
Mephisto has been shown to be same ball park around Odin?
An instance of Mephisto rocking the multiverse as a side effect of his fight?
An instance of Mephisto destroying galaxies as a side effect of his fight?
Thor 185: Fighting Infinity, and destroying galaxies
Gallery
An instance of Mephisto making 9 works shake with 1 blast?
Again it comes down to Mephisto showing more uses of his powers and Personal Soul attacks as well Hordes of Weapons in the forms of Demons/Claim Souls.
Odin fights Surtur... Odin is also killed by Surtur more than once. alot actually. My point is Mephisto has more cunning and imagination than Surtur.
Mephisto has rocked Galactus World and with the ability to many times bring his Realm onto Earth with his full use of powers he can surely rock Odin as well.
Im ready for votes :) been a productive debate I say.
I will go with Killemall here as well. CadenceV2 did well and tried his best but I thought that it was a bit unfair given how powerful Odin.
@Killemall
Two things tho
Odin beating Mesphito in his realm is PIS as far as Im concerned. I know its non cannon, but my Opinion has always been that Mesphito beats Odin in his realm but loses outside it. Mesphito gave Galan a much better fight than Odin did in his realm, so should in all honesty beat Odin with a fair amount of comfort.
Maybe its the Thanos fan-boy speaking out in me, but Thanos was not helpless against Odin once he summoned Gunjir- though the battle quickly turned in Odin favor. You also have to take into account Thanos had just fought a warrior madness Thor, and multiple Asgardians as well.
ArGHzzzz FanBOY RaGE- tHANos MatchHEZZZ bLAST Of In-BetwEEENer In ThanOZZ qUest Who MaDE DEath His B!tCH =D.
That aside, well done Killemall. It looks like your going to win again here. I think you have an undefeated record, just like me, though my streak is shorter than yours.
"2. Mephisto himself admits fighting a skyfather headon would be "Lunacy" , the same skyfather Odin was shown beating twice in Fear Itself, and Thor shown killing using Odin's powers (Odin Sword, Ragnarok)."
Sorry for bothering you, and iteruptting the debate, but when has Odin fought Serpent? I thought only Thor did?
New Mutant 32 as well as The Mighty Thor 05 (2011). Both of the encounter were in the past, one he beats Serpent heads on, the other he is force to destroy the whole planet.
However, despite having beaten Serpent before, Odin was prevented by the prophecy to actually kill Serpent, and hence Thor kills him at the end.
Bor was Odins father and Skyfather as well. What did he rule before Dsgard? Mud? Ymirs chest hair? Or Asgard as well?
Just correcting you on this 2.
1. Galactus was the first being on 616 Universe from a univese that preceded it which was destroyed when Eternity as well as Phoenix died, what the issue is referring to is Asgardia, which is a pocket universe outside 616 as are all pocket universes like Heroes Reborn (which still exists), Olympus , etc.
2. Odin and his brother re-created the Asgard universe, with 9 realms connected after Ymir died.
Killemall. To me, Cadence's argument was basically showing off Mephisto's range of abilities and ignoring the fact that all those abilities have never been exhibited on a scale that indicates Odin has anything to worry about.
I will go with Killemall here as well. CadenceV2 did well and tried his best but I thought that it was a bit unfair given how powerful Odin.
@Killemall
Two things tho
Odin beating Mesphito in his realm is PIS as far as Im concerned. I know its non cannon, but my Opinion has always been that Mesphito beats Odin in his realm but loses outside it. Mesphito gave Galan a much better fight than Odin did in his realm, so should in all honesty beat Odin with a fair amount of comfort.
Maybe its the Thanos fan-boy speaking out in me, but Thanos was not helpless against Odin once he summoned Gunjir- though the battle quickly turned in Odin favor. You also have to take into account Thanos had just fought a warrior madness Thor, and multiple Asgardians as well.
ArGHzzzz FanBOY RaGE- tHANos MatchHEZZZ bLAST Of In-BetwEEENer In ThanOZZ qUest Who MaDE DEath His B!tCH =D.
That aside, well done Killemall. It looks like your going to win again here. I think you have an undefeated record, just like me, though my streak is shorter than yours.
I could try and say something but lets not, I like when people rate Thanos highly, and its a well known fact i am a Thanos fanboy ;)
I dont have a long winning record its thus far 2-0, the only person i won against was TheAcidSkull and Majestic99. Other debates with Beatboks1, NicktheDevil, was left undecided although i was winning on both :(
"2. Mephisto himself admits fighting a skyfather headon would be "Lunacy" , the same skyfather Odin was shown beating twice in Fear Itself, and Thor shown killing using Odin's powers (Odin Sword, Ragnarok)."
Sorry for bothering you, and iteruptting the debate, but when has Odin fought Serpent? I thought only Thor did?
New Mutant 32 as well as The Mighty Thor 05 (2011). Both of the encounter were in the past, one he beats Serpent heads on, the other he is force to destroy the whole planet.
However, despite having beaten Serpent before, Odin was prevented by the prophecy to actually kill Serpent, and hence Thor kills him at the end.
he did very good job backing up Memphisto, despite he is weaker outside of his realm... but debating against Odin is very hard IMO...he has more solid feats.
@Killemall: No by all means go ahead, if I am missing things, then please correct my. I don't went my fanboyism to be blind now don't it :P
Well I have a 2-0 record as well too aha !!!!!
We must clash some time.
No really missing things, its kind of odd showing for Thanos to match In betweener blast given how powerful that dude is also i will look for an exact issue but as far as i recall Thanos says something like i try my best to match it.
We could debate but we debate on entirely different things, i know cosmic and cosmic team buster, you are more of a street level person, but based on what i have seen of you, color me extremely impressed with your debating skills. :)
@Killemall: Yeah, I have the Thanos Quest- and I know the whole In Betweener bit was a bit iffy, I mean he is after all, a nigh Galactus level being.
If anything, It was more a parody of a Thanos fan who takes things a bit too far- Klandicar springs to mind :-D
Yes, as for that- I either need to get better at my cosmics- incidentally I think your street-level knowledge is quite good. Do you know who your facing in the next round of Floopay's Tourney?
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