• 69 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for ghostravage
#1 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Rules

  • In-Character
  • Standard Weaponry/Equipment for Cable
  • Composite feats for Guardian. Pre and Post Cyborg
  • Savior Cable, highest level of TP/TK with Techno-Organic Virus
  • Basic knowledge between characters
  • Win by Death,KO or Incapacitation
  • They start 100 meters away from each other in the air

Battlefield

No Caption Provided

Let the battle begin!

Avatar image for ghostravage
#2 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#3 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: i can totally dig this i'll have my intro up shortly

Avatar image for granitesoldier
#4 Posted by GraniteSoldier (12745 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be awesome. If it isn't, I hold you both in contempt.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#5 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#6 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: you're cheating on me? tell me this means nothing and just a fling!

Avatar image for kingant27
#7 Posted by Kingant27 (16612 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for voting please

Avatar image for kidman560
#8 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

James Hudson

No Caption Provided

first off i love the pic you used but

The Armor

this is an electro-magnetic suit that pretty much controls the electro-magnetic spectrum (not on Magneto's level but you'll see)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he can use it as a form of TK to stop objects or he can use it to incinerate objects all with relative ease

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he can also teleport... actually what it is, is his suit remains still while everything around it continues to move (i guess it would be a very very low form of time manipulation) double speed feat as he can move at 18.5 miles a second... escape velocity is 7 miles a second (Mach 32.7) for reference

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he can demagnetize bullets (it stands to reason that, given the other feats this suit has performed, demagnetize other things as well)

No Caption Provided

his suit can even disrupt neural frequencies (this is key) it means hes effectively telepath proof (kind of like Electro is)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

his shields have tanked blows from Colossus and even contained a nuclear reactor explosion

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

his energy beams have been shown to hurt a very weak Galactus and the would-be god Ranarak the Ravage, and Tundra the great beasts (the great beasts are god-like creatures that, upon entering earth, must be defeated in 20 minutes or they are unstoppable)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

he built a suit for his wife that is identical to his with all the same capabilities and shields and she tanks hits from Wonder Man with no ill effect. that should give you an idea of just how durable this suit really is

@cosmicallyaware1 sorry bro but Ghost has been looking for a fight for Cable since before i got my tech taken away... i finally realized i could make one for him

Avatar image for kidman560
#9 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ghostravage
#10 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Nice intro mate, im going to write down my intro in a couple of hours, Ok?

Avatar image for kidman560
#11 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Nice intro mate, im going to write down my intro in a couple of hours, Ok?

take all the time you need... im not going anywhere (hopefully)

Avatar image for dondave
#12 Posted by dondave (41747 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good

Avatar image for kidman560
#13 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for killemall
#14 Posted by Killemall (18972 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good.

Kidman , i will tip my hat in utmost respect if you manage to win this... from where i stand given the capability of the debator and character you are facing is pretty serious.. But i have faith in you man :)

Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#15 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good.

Kidman , i will tip my hat in utmost respect if you manage to win this... from where i stand given the capability of the debator and character you are facing is pretty serious.. But i have faith in you man :)

Agreed. Exactly this.

Avatar image for cable_extreme
#16 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

Nerdgasm initiated!

Avatar image for kidman560
#17 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: oh yeah i make no mistake in thinking that @ghostravage isnt one of the better debaters this site has to offer... nor am i expecting to win this but i will make as best a case as i can for James Hudson to get the W...

@cable_extreme i meant to tag you for this since your a big cable fan but i forgot

Avatar image for cable_extreme
#18 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16737 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: thanks, it is the thought that counts, good luck, it looks like you have a nice, fun and challenging battle ahead.

Avatar image for nighthunder
#19 Posted by NighThunder (7725 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: what kill said. Your gonna get major cookie points should you win hookthis.

Agreed @killemall:

Hope both of you do well. Do not disappoint a fanboy of both characters being used here.

Avatar image for killemall
#20 Posted by Killemall (18972 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Its not just that Ghost Ravage is a dangerous opponent to have (which of course he is) its that his character is pretty darn powerful. But best of luck..

Avatar image for kidman560
#21 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: dont worry Guardian has something up his sleeve, stay tuned to find out

@ghostravage im gonna be away from my computer for a couple hours just giving heads up

Avatar image for thedailybagel
#22 Posted by Thedailybagel (12556 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes please. Good luck to both of you.

Online
Avatar image for night4345
#23 Posted by Night4345 (8450 posts) - - Show Bio

Disappointed this wasn't DC Guardian vs regular Cable. Please tag and good luck to both of you.

Avatar image for kidman560
#24 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ghostravage
#25 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Almost done mate, had some issues with my HD and i was unable to upload scans. Sorry for the delay, it will be ready in no time.

Avatar image for kidman560
#26 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: its cool im actually going to be gone for the next few hours so... ill respond ASAP though

Avatar image for ghostravage
#27 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: All right mate, let's get down to this.

Nathan Christopher Charles Summers

No Caption Provided

The Askanison, also known as Cable, an omega level mutant with high end telepathy and telekinesis, warfare knowledge, master strategist and possibly one of the few characters who are properly written along their publication in the comic industry, meaning his abilities are exploitable to the max and in the most intelligent ways.

Guardian is a very cool character, i honestly didn't know he was that versatile, which only makes this a lot more interesting, however, with the information you've presented, i don't think it suffices the notion of him actually being a threat to Nathan, let alone beating him. Cable on the other hand has a plethora of ways to deal with him but since this is the first argument, i'm just going to name one that i hardly doubt you'll be able to counter.

First of all, let's address some of your points...

he can also teleport... actually what it is, is his suit remains still while everything around it continues to move (i guess it would be a very very low form of time manipulation) double speed feat as he can move at 18.5 miles a second... escape velocity is 7 miles a second (Mach 32.7) for reference

While this is impressive, it holds almost nothing against someone who clearly has Light Speed reflexes at the very least... He demonstrated this kind of perception in Cable & Deadpool #5...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

He reacted to someone who was rushing at the speed of light, moreover, actually going faster than expected even taking into account that he could move at light speed. Moreover, redirecting his trajectory at light speed as well. So there really isn't any speed to exploit here, Cable will land every single attack he wants to perform right on the spot.

his energy beams have been shown to hurt a very weak Galactus

While you got something right, which is Galactus was indeed weakened in Alpha Flight #100, the notion of Guardian being someone special into harming him is flawed since everyone in that particular issue was able to harm him...

No Caption Provided

Moreover, he was seriously lacking his power of cosmic in the instance which made him recur to physical force to actually overpower the team. I wouldn't say that feat proves anything since in that precise moment, anyone could have hurt him apparently.

the would-be god Ranarak the Ravage, and Tundra the great beasts (the great beasts are god-like creatures that, upon entering earth, must be defeated in 20 minutes or they are unstoppable)

The info you're giving me has no way to be measured, im not asking for numbers but a viable way to measure those feats. If anything, Cable's shields are always up and they go from tanking missiles, bullets and high artillery effortlessly to atomic bombs with the slightest of efforts as shown between Cable #30 and #31 when he first fought Nate Grey and took the telekinetic burst seemingly greater than nuclear warfare...

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

I could post more feats, but im going to wait for a proper measurement of Guardian's damage output.

his suit can even disrupt neural frequencies (this is key) it means hes effectively telepath proof (kind of like Electro is)

This proof doesn't show he's impervious to TP assaults but only proves he can disrupt neural frequencies of telepaths by using his cyborg side... This is not a vice-versa case and if the cyborg part in question is dampened, there isn't really a way to handle TP assaults as im quite certain he doesn't have Doom's will nor Hulk's overall TP resistance, which coincidentally was breached by a weak Cable.

With this said, i don't have any quarrels with your other powers and instances showcased here. Moving on, the awaited single strategy i'm quite confident would suffice into beating Guardian... Any reason why Cable wouldn't just turn Guardian's Cyborg insides into water/dust as he proved in Cable & Deadpool #2?

No Caption Provided

After the alterations are done, nothing is really stopping Nathan from turning Guardian into a carrot mentally-wise.

Since it's in-character, Cable is not going for the kill off the bat, so the best thing he would do with this tactic is aim for incapacitation, and given both the characters have basic knowledge between them, i see the strategy as applicable in this scenario.

Your turn mate. :P

Avatar image for kidman560
#28 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: well that was pretty good but nothing i didnt expect overall

Opening Move

No Caption Provided

right off the bat hes going to throw Cable off his game... this will dampen Cable (especially since Electro did the same thing on a minature scale and it f**cked X-man up) and its a field

alright now that cable is at the very least distracted (but lets face it this will screw with him) James will have the ability to really hammer Cable

Counter Points

No Caption Provided

has Cables been able to mind f**k a man whos brain is pretty much a computer... this is techno path Madison Jeffries here, arguably the smartest man on Alpha Flight (James and Walter are pretty dang smart also)

He reacted to someone who was rushing at the speed of light, moreover, actually going faster than expected even taking into account that he could move at light speed. Moreover, redirecting his trajectory at light speed as well. So there really isn't any speed to exploit here, Cable will land every single attack he wants to perform right on the spot.

I know all this and not only did i not agree with it, it didnt make any sense... Cable did not move nearly this fast against the Surfer (who was not going at lightspeed at any time during their fight) or in any of his other battles... if he moves and reacts at lightspeed then he wouldnt have needed to do half the things he did at his power levels... tbh im kind of surprised you used this because it is completely and totally out of the norm for any version of Cable (even the one without the T-O virus)

I mean the very notion that he moves and reacts at lightspeed is absurd to me especially sine this is like the only time he did it

The info you're giving me has no way to be measured, im not asking for numbers but a viable way to measure those feats. If anything, Cable's shields are always up and they go from tanking missiles, bullets and high artillery effortlessly to atomic bombs with the slightest of efforts as shown between Cable #30 and #31 when he first fought Nate Grey and took the telekinetic burst seemingly greater than nuclear warfare...

well the Great Beast Tundra was giving Nate Grey a good fight so...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Nate only won by overloading him... Guardian right off the bat was able to put a serious hurt on him

so lets go back to have Cables Shields tanked anything that Nate Grey could dish out... cuz by Comparison Guardian is ouputing that power...

With this said, i don't have any quarrels with your other powers and instances showcased here. Moving on, the awaited single strategy i'm quite confident would suffice into beating Guardian... Any reason why Cable wouldn't just turn Guardian's Cyborg insides into water/dust as he proved in Cable & Deadpool #2?

because unless i missed something morals are on and by the time he realizes Guardian means business hes going to have the biggest headache in his life...

After the alterations are done, nothing is really stopping Nathan from turning Guardian into a carrot mentally-wise.

Since it's in-character, Cable is not going for the kill off the bat, so the best thing he would do with this tactic is aim for incapacitation, and given both the characters have basic knowledge between them, i see the strategy as applicable in this scenario

this is basic knowledge... and he is going to know James Hudson as a good man because even Wolverine respects James Hudson (and Wolverine barely respects Charles Xavier)

No Caption Provided

Back to Strategy

so with James firing off his E-M field (and i dont care what you say Hurting Galactus is hurting Galactus... except for that PIS moment where Ben Grimm and Doc Strange seemed to almost kill him, but he wasnt like that in this fight) this fight will stay in James' corner as he can do this as often as he likes, it will certainly keep Cable from TP'ing him and give James the head start he needs to laying the hurt on Cable...

tbh with that E-M field ive countered everything i need here... in terms of shields ive seen nothing that would equal taking punches from the guy who 1-hit KO'ed Thor (i know Cable has good shield feats i just havent seen them presented)

with constant use of his E-M field and then not letting Cable regain his balance and footing James can and will beat Cable. his suit and his capabilities are pretty much any Telepaths worst nightmare...

Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#29 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice gentlemen.

Avatar image for kidman560
#30 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice gentlemen.

ya think? this CaV has me excited... mainly cuz im using a character who isnt regarded at powerful vs a character who is regarded as insanely powerful

Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#31 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 said:

Very nice gentlemen.

ya think? this CaV has me excited... mainly cuz im using a character who isnt regarded at powerful vs a character who is regarded as insanely powerful

you know I like "underdog" matches.............

Avatar image for ghostravage
#32 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Nice post mate, this is turning interesting already...

First of all, let me address one of the instances you mentioned in your previous argument. I looked for the issue and some context about that scan really caught my attention. The Neural Disrupting instance in Alpha Flight #94... The fact that he needed to be completely off his human persona and enter into his cyborg persona to exploit this ability means he's not really performing such tactic as easily as you're claiming, let alone him being unable to break free from TP by himself in the instance and his team was needed for him to be forcibly put into cyborg mode.

No Caption Provided

Moreover, your instance does not suffice the notion of him being impervious to TP assaults so i stand by my point that he will get overwhelmed by Cable's TP and in this particular battle, he's not going to have his team forcing him into turning an "auto-functional" robot. While the ability exists, this kind of context flushes it down the toilet if he can't withstand a simple first assault off the bat.

As for the Neural Disrupting capability, even if you manage to make a decent case of him being able to exploit it... The ability does not act off the bat and he needs to analyze the neural frequencies to disrupt them or actually break free from TP... it was shown in the same issue as well...

No Caption Provided

In other words, im afraid there's really nothing stopping Cable from dropping him with TP in the first seconds of the fight.

Moving on...

right off the bat hes going to throw Cable off his game... this will dampen Cable (especially since Electro did the same thing on a minature scale and it f**cked X-man up) and its a field

alright now that cable is at the very least distracted (but lets face it this will screw with him) James will have the ability to really hammer Cable

He's not performing such tactic if he's been TP'd from the start. That said, i highly doubt this will affect Cable that much if he's been put under an insane amount of the strongest neural dampeners on S.H.I.E.L.D's Helicarrier as shown in Cable #61...

No Caption Provided

He still was able to keep his TK and fight fluently a few minutes from being released. He actually makes reference of him being recently released and going into the fight right away in Cable #62...

No Caption Provided

Finally, there's a flaw in your strategy, there's some decent starting distance and the fields you're seemingly portraying look to have a very short range of manifestation whereas Cable's TP is very well on planetary sized range as shown in Cable & Deadpool #9...

No Caption Provided

Don't get me wrong, this hardly represents my strategy, there's no need for Cable to ionize anything if Guardian starts out visible but far, he would still be under Cable's operational field, ergo,TP is applicable off the bat.

has Cables been able to mind f**k a man whos brain is pretty much a computer... this is techno path Madison Jeffries here, arguably the smartest man on Alpha Flight (James and Walter are pretty dang smart also)

I fail to see how having a computer-like mind has any relevancy to this mate. While he had his computer-like mind he was still TP'd by Headlok in the instance you tried to exploit... What's stopping a telepath who is exponentially if not flat out divinely superior to Headlok?

If anything, having a computer-like brain doesn't mean much for Cable as he's able to telepathically assault robots and other artificial "life" beings as proven in Cable's Annual from 1998...

No Caption Provided

I know all this and not only did i not agree with it, it didnt make any sense... Cable did not move nearly this fast against the Surfer (who was not going at lightspeed at any time during their fight) or in any of his other battles... if he moves and reacts at lightspeed then he wouldnt have needed to do half the things he did at his power levels... tbh im kind of surprised you used this because it is completely and totally out of the norm for any version of Cable (even the one without the T-O virus)

I mean the very notion that he moves and reacts at lightspeed is absurd to me especially sine this is like the only time he did it

Cable didn't move in either of the instances, he used his telekinesis to shield himself and redirect an attack, that's hardly a movement but a mental tactic. Moreover, i don't know why you present such resistance to the instance if Cable needed to adjust his strategy by teleporting him far enough for him to be able to react as he was getting seriously blitzed before... As for Surfer, i mean, he didn't use any speed, why would reaction be a matter for someone who wasn't using his speed to begin with. Hardly a decent argument to debunk the instance mate.

The last part is rather ridiculous since it was strongly stated that in that very moment, Cable was at the very top of his capabilities, it's not too far fetched to think his telepathic and telekinetic abilities were at max during the Providence event, ergo, his reaction as well. Moreover, Cable already had reaction feats without exploiting his abilities that would suffice your speed feat acquired in Cable #45...

No Caption Provided

He was taking out several people before they could blink, given the fact he could very well use his mutant abilities this way since they are directly connected to how fast his brain processes, i fail to see any discrepancy on assuming Cable is fast enough to not miss a single hit on Guardian.

Nate only won by overloading him... Guardian right off the bat was able to put a serious hurt on him

so lets go back to have Cables Shields tanked anything that Nate Grey could dish out... cuz by Comparison Guardian is ouputing that power...

Are you serious? How overloading him means Guardian is superior if all he managed to do was hurt him whereas Nate completely obliterated him? In fact, it's totally the opposite, Nate proved to be too much for the beast while Guardian merely "hurt" him. I fail to see your point here, still, not a measurable feat.

because unless i missed something morals are on and by the time he realizes Guardian means business hes going to have the biggest headache in his life...

I think i stated the same, it's an in-character fight, still, assuming Cable won't perform the tactic i've come up with because he has morals is not a valid argument. I made it pretty clear Cable would just incapacitate him, not flat out kill him. Im recurring to this strategy because Nathan has an intuitive mind, capable of dismantling multiple things into several pieces and put them together once again like nothing ever happened... He actually did it while having a simple conversation with Xavier in a single panel in Cable & Deadpool #3, moreover, it is conveniently implied given the ability is associated with the plot of the saga. "Dismantle the civilization".

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

His ability goes to such extent, he's able to actually manipulate DNA strands, albeit, it's hard for him, but still WAY more complex than disassembling a cyborg in pieces. Anyway, his telekinetic powers are explicitly stated to be used in that way in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: X-Men of 2005...

No Caption Provided

To put an end to this point, what's stopping Cable from doing what he did in his Annual from 1999...

No Caption Provided

He took The Marauders's armors off with a thought without harming anyone of them. I feel the tactic is as applicable as possible and it's within Cable's character to go for the incapacitation move totally independent of having respect or not, he's still smart and someone shaped from war, which means he will do what he has to do at any cost. The only thing stopping him from going for the kill off the bat are his morals, but them morals are not stopping Cable from achieving his goals, which in this case, is beating Guardian.

No Caption Provided

so with James firing off his E-M field (and i dont care what you say Hurting Galactus is hurting Galactus... except for that PIS moment where Ben Grimm and Doc Strange seemed to almost kill him, but he wasnt like that in this fight) this fight will stay in James' corner as he can do this as often as he likes, it will certainly keep Cable from TP'ing him and give James the head start he needs to laying the hurt on Cable...

tbh with that E-M field ive countered everything i need here... in terms of shields ive seen nothing that would equal taking punches from the guy who 1-hit KO'ed Thor (i know Cable has good shield feats i just havent seen them presented)

with constant use of his E-M field and then not letting Cable regain his balance and footing James can and will beat Cable. his suit and his capabilities are pretty much any Telepaths worst nightmare...

Is a field... If he can't get near why would he able to exploit this tactic? The part in the parenthesis is ridiculous mate, it doesn't matter if you don't care, hurting a Galactus that was utterly weakened to an unknown extent is a useless feat you're trying to use to somehow overhype Guardian's capabilities.

To be honest, you don't really have a counter for Telepathy, Molecular Manipulation and Disassemble.

To summarize

  • There's some significant context that was exploitable in your instance.
  • Guardian is not truly TP proof but can break off TP assaults if enetering his Cyborg persona, which then again is useless since Cable has TP'd robots as well.
  • Guardian can enter his Cyborg persona at will, at least, in the instance you tried to use.
  • There's no counter for Molecular Manipulation or flat out disassemble.
  • Guardian is getting TP'd in the first second of the fight.

Avatar image for kidman560
#33 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: i do like my underdog matches here... i hope this is the kind of match you were looking for

Moreover, your instance does not suffice the notion of him being impervious to TP assaults so i stand by my point that he will get overwhelmed by Cable's TP and in this particular battle, he's not going to have his team forcing him into turning an "auto-functional" robot. While the ability exists, this kind of context flushes it down the toilet if he can't withstand a simple first assault off the bat.

As for the Neural Disrupting capability, even if you manage to make a decent case of him being able to exploit it... The ability does not act off the bat and he needs to analyze the neural frequencies to disrupt them or actually break free from TP... it was shown in the same issue as well...

remember this was only mentioned in my opener... i havent effectively used it yet... but with basic knowledge is understandable that he is scanning for neural frequencies which he is capable of doing... but lets also not forget that James can switch into his cybernetic mind at will (see i wanted to see if you knew this since you got upset about me using the first set but it turns out you didnt, this is why i was ok with either when you PM'ed me)

I do find it odd that you knew about the first set of scans but didnt know about this set... anyways moving on

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

oh and see here he can actually teleport also (not just his teleporting trick) so he can switch to his Cybernetic Mind at will and he can teleport

James is also capable of scanning for frequencies in his human setting

No Caption Provided

here he scans dooms shields and overloads them and registers signals of teleportaion and what triggered them to self destruct (these were done at the same time...)

No Caption Provided

this feat is exploitable right off the bat... and by teleporting to Cable we close the distance

He's not performing such tactic if he's been TP'd from the start. That said, i highly doubt this will affect Cable that much if he's been put under an insane amount of the strongest neural dampeners on S.H.I.E.L.D's Helicarrier as shown in Cable #61...

your biggest hope so far is relying on Cable being able to mind-f**k as fast as he mind links and thats just not possible... especially since Machine Man was willing in the mind-link its allot harder if the person is unwilling... you and dondave seem to have issues with this...

He still was able to keep his TK and fight fluently a few minutes from being released. He actually makes reference of him being recently released and going into the fight right away in Cable #62...

thats great but the whole point of the E-M field is to keep his Telepathy under-wraps and from what you posted it seemed to work... so thats all i wanted to do also it seems like his TK wasn't at 100%

If anything, having a computer-like brain doesn't mean much for Cable as he's able to telepathically assault robots and other artificial "life" beings as proven in Cable's Annual from 1998...

this is a common thing that you and Dondave seem to have problems understanding... if the other person opens himself up to the mindlink its not really a TP feat... and it was obvious that Machine Man was opening himself into the mindlink... also i know nothing about Machine Man except for his run with Red She-Hulk so i have no idea what his resistance feats are

not that it would matter because all that proves is that if the cyborg is willing Cable can mind-link with him which is drastically different than mind controlling someone... i think prof X puts it best here

No Caption Provided

when talking to Gambit he says "its difficult to mind-link with you much less perform a whole telepathic scan..." so again that feat doesnt really do it in this case when a world class Techno-path like Maddison Jeffries couldnt keep up with him

but even if he can mind-rape James hes not going to be able to because James can teleport and then use the E-M field

Are you serious? How overloading him means Guardian is superior if all he managed to do was hurt him whereas Nate completely obliterated him? In fact, it's totally the opposite, Nate proved to be too much for the beast while Guardian merely "hurt" him. I fail to see your point here, still, not a measurable feat.

no but in the fight Nate was not getting anywhere against Tundra unitl he overloaded him... Guardian let out a blast and caused Tundra to scream in pain... im just saying these things pack more of a punch than your standard energy blast... you misunderstood me it seems because i never meant to imply that Guardian's EM blasts are more powerful than X-mans blasts

Finally, there's a flaw in your strategy, there's some decent starting distance and the fields you're seemingly portraying look to have a very short range of manifestation whereas Cable's TP is very well on planetary sized range as shown in Cable & Deadpool #9...

your right because i didnt think about posting the fact that Guardian can Teleport at will

To put an end to this point, what's stopping Cable from doing what he did in his Annual from 1999...

i would say the fact that James can teleport is another good reason but it also seems Cable's TK was not 100% while under E-M fields, which given that Mac can teleport i see no reason why it shouldnt happen

Cable didn't move in either of the instances, he used his telekinesis to shield himself and redirect an attack, that's hardly a movement but a mental tactic. Moreover, i don't know why you present such resistance to the instance if Cable needed to adjust his strategy by teleporting him far enough for him to be able to react as he was getting seriously blitzed before... As for Surfer, i mean, he didn't use any speed, why would reaction be a matter for someone who wasn't using his speed to begin with. Hardly a decent argument to debunk the instance mate.

btw what are the feats of the this guy who moves at lightspeed... do we even have a name for him?

also you are claiming that Cable can mind read at lightspeeds and im sorry but that really isnt true... to claim him using TP at lightspeeds... even Martian Manhunter cant do that and MM has better reaction feats than Cable does

this Cable also has very few combat feats with someone on a high tier... i mean i would have used the fact that he was able to keep up with Surfer as a better reaction feat than the lightspeed one...

reacting at lightspeeds is not something Cable does... he hasnt done it but that once and to top it all off he was telekinetically holding the building apart while reacting at lightspeeds... your're gonna call James hurting Galactus PIS but not this (which you seem to have done a good job of but still he hurt Galactus by himself)... c'mon bro

He took The Marauders's armors off with a thought without harming anyone of them. I feel the tactic is as applicable as possible and it's within Cable's character to go for the incapacitation move totally independent of having respect or not, he's still smart and someone shaped from war, which means he will do what he has to do at any cost. The only thing stopping him from going for the kill off the bat are his morals, but them morals are not stopping Cable from achieving his goals, which in this case, is beating Guardian.

again a truly amazing feat one that would surely be a pinch in James butt... but he can teleport if Cable tries to do this

To be honest, you don't really have a counter for Telepathy, Molecular Manipulation and Disassemble.

to be honest i really do... i spent 30 minutes typing it up... Cable's TP can and will analyzed in a split second and then disrupted, Guardian can avoid the other 2 by teleporting and he can close the distance and use an E-M field then

also Cable has never molecularized someone with his morals on... and i have never seen him do it while fighting someone...

Summarize

1. Guardian closes distance with teleport than uses EM-Field, and then scans and disrupts Cable for TP

2. by teleporting he negates any direct TK

3. should Cable try to use objects Guardian tanks them (which im glad you posted the scan of him tanking Heather, Human Torch, Shaman, Windshear and Talisman) because Heather

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

was able to Kill Snowbird with a blast... thats a serious durability feat for James (also keep in mind that James is wearing the same suit as she is, capable of the same power output as she is)

4. Cables Shields can be overloaded

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

kind of like how Doom's were...

5. you have been relying on TP and TK this entire time... when thats not available Cable doesnt really have anything else, he doesnt have the Physicals to beat James and James can pretty much do what he wants)

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

i wanted to post these again because really these are key also... James can also teleport Cable if he so chooses

6. James keeps Cable of balance (using his Electro-Magentic manipulation or teleporting) and not give him time to use Telepathy or Telekinesis while overloading Cable's shield and continually hitting him with Blasts (and we've seen that a blast is capable of killing Snowbird in Sasquatch form)

7. i'll admit the distance thing could have caused some trouble had James not been able to teleport but seeing as while teleporting Cable won't be able to screw with him telepathically

Avatar image for ghostravage
#34 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: I do like underdog matches too and this one is quite entertaining, lots of research, which is my forte. Moving on...

remember this was only mentioned in my opener... i havent effectively used it yet... but with basic knowledge is understandable that he is scanning for neural frequencies which he is capable of doing... but lets also not forget that James can switch into his cybernetic mind at will (see i wanted to see if you knew this since you got upset about me using the first set but it turns out you didnt, this is why i was ok with either when you PM'ed me)

I do find it odd that you knew about the first set of scans but didnt know about this set... anyways moving on

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

oh and see here he can actually teleport also (not just his teleporting trick) so he can switch to his Cybernetic Mind at will and he can teleport

You're missing the point Kidman. He won't be able to scan anything if Cable TP's him in the first second of the fight and flat out dismantles him into pieces. Furthermore, the way you're presenting the scans makes no sense whatsoever... Let me explain myself.

You're saying Guardian can tap into his cyborg persona at will, followed by a series of scans that do not support such claim. First of all, there's not a single shred of evidence he changed back to his human persona in any of those scans, the fact that his dialogue bubbles where drew like rectangles in resemblance of that of a robot means he was still under his cyborg persona in all 4 scans. Secondly, there's some context missing... Again...

No Caption Provided

The Qwurlin were controlling him in all your 4 scans, and this limitation was actually stated in his Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Master Edition #25...

No Caption Provided

There's nowhere in either his updated handbook entry nor his Master Edition handbook entry that states he can tap into his cyborg persona at will, so from where are you getting this? There's nothing you've shown to support such stance, even misusing context in an intent of proving it. In fact, the only legit proof shown here was mine, which works entirely against your case, but sure, i'm still open to your explanation but honestly... I hardly doubt you would be able to support your stance right now.

As for this "teleportation" ability you've been mentioning all along the debate, i fail to see how he possess it, let alone applicable in combat. I believe something like that would be stated in his handbook entries but again, nothing is stated, not even in his updated handbook entry of 2011...

No Caption Provided

Coincidentally, the first set of scans of Alpha Flight #99 used previously by you have some missing context... once again. The Qwurlin which performed the modifications on James actually introduced some features that would make him able to return to the Planet Qwurl along with some superhuman earthlings when Galactus finally arrived to Planet Qwurl, it was explained in the next issue Alpha Flight #100...

No Caption Provided

Seems a bit too convenient Guardian managed to teleport an entire crew of Super Humans, specially to Planet Qwurl when context like this is shown. By now, i hardly doubt he has teleportation as a regular ability, more like a one time ability specially attuned for this occasion. Still, even if the ability does exist, which mi quite skeptical it does, you're not showcasing it in combat but traveling. I can easily discard it.

James is also capable of scanning for frequencies in his human setting

here he scans dooms shields and overloads them and registers signals of teleportaion and what triggered them to self destruct (these were done at the same time...)

Nobody said he couldn't, but he won't, given the fact he'll have his brain turned off by Cable in the first second of the fight. As for the shields being override, meh, i have no quarrels with it but take into account the fact he needs to have access to their wavelengths, which happens to be the same factor you're ignoring from Guardian's requirements for his neural disrupting abilities.

this feat is exploitable right off the bat... and by teleporting to Cable we close the distance

Nonsense and pardon my directness... There's not a single feat shown here that suggests he can teleport in combat, let alone without significant context behind. I disagree completely.

your biggest hope so far is relying on Cable being able to mind-f**k as fast as he mind links and thats just not possible... especially since Machine Man was willing in the mind-link its allot harder if the person is unwilling... you and dondave seem to have issues with this...

I don't have hopes, i'm certain i could bring more strategies to the game but i want to make this match a stomp rather than a close match since i see Guardian and Savior Cable in total different tiers. Anyway, you're a bit too confident with that claim... Do you really read the issue or are you just assuming? If anything, i'm noticing a pattern here, way too much context missing or flat out misused. This is what they were doing before Cable mind-linked with Machine-Man...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Do you honestly think Machine-Man let himself get mind-linked if he was fighting Cable like this? I mean, that doesn't even make sense.

thats great but the whole point of the E-M field is to keep his Telepathy under-wraps and from what you posted it seemed to work... so thats all i wanted to do also it seems like his TK wasn't at 100%

If you're not canceling TK, Guardian is getting dismantled. Anyway, his TK wasn't at 100% because he barely had any proficiency in those issues. Savior Cable is leagues above that Cable, i think i've made it quite clear previously, Cable was operating at his best during Providence.

this is a common thing that you and Dondave seem to have problems understanding... if the other person opens himself up to the mindlink its not really a TP feat... and it was obvious that Machine Man was opening himself into the mindlink... also i know nothing about Machine Man except for his run with Red She-Hulk so i have no idea what his resistance feats are

not that it would matter because all that proves is that if the cyborg is willing Cable can mind-link with him which is drastically different than mind controlling someone... i think prof X puts it best here

There's nothing true about the first paragraph...

  • It is a TP feat because he entered someone's mind.
  • Machine-Man didn't let himself get TP'd because he was fighting.
  • Nothing is right about those claims.

You don't really need any TP feats for Machine-Man since i was just merely showcasing Cable being able to telekinetically assault robots the same way he does to living beings, i think you're aware of Cable's TK feats but if anything, he can dampen mutant powers through TK as he did to Colossus in Cable #11, and he wasn't half as proficient as he was in Cable & Deadpool...

No Caption Provided

"I will turn your brain off. Sorry."

-Nathan

Disclaimer: I didn't use this feat to support Cable shutting your brain down, i was just using it to showcase Cable forcibly dampening mutant powers, ergo, altering someone's brain through the combination of TK and TP, which essentially, is the strategy im exploiting here.

Moving on...

It's funny that you use Xavier as an example since he consistently notes how Cable's telepathic walls are top notch as he first did in Cable #29...

No Caption Provided

Moreover, the usage of your Cajun scan has no relevancy to mine as Xavier clearly states he has trouble with Gambit because of his mutant power, not because he's not letting himself get through his mind which i'm quite certain Xavier wouldn't have trouble doing if he has done it to Hulk, which is divinely more resistant to this kind of assaults than Gambit. Speaking of, Cable actually managed to overpower Hulk's mind by himself while he was in a very weakened state in Cable #34...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

I fail to see Guardian even remotely resistant to Cable's TP or TK, let alone in this state.

when talking to Gambit he says "its difficult to mind-link with you much less perform a whole telepathic scan..." so again that feat doesnt really do it in this case when a world class Techno-path like Maddison Jeffries couldnt keep up with him

but even if he can mind-rape James hes not going to be able to because James can teleport and then use the E-M field

You ignored the very first sentences of Xavier. It's difficult to him because of Gambit's mutant powers, not because he has some sort of hidden will or anything.

no but in the fight Nate was not getting anywhere against Tundra unitl he overloaded him... Guardian let out a blast and caused Tundra to scream in pain... im just saying these things pack more of a punch than your standard energy blast... you misunderstood me it seems because i never meant to imply that Guardian's EM blasts are more powerful than X-mans blasts

You pretty much stated Guardian was superior offensively than Nate, to address my instance... Let me quote:

"so lets go back to have Cables Shields tanked anything that Nate Grey could dish out... cuz by Comparison Guardian is ouputing that power..."

Not only Nate's powers were being released in a HUGE rate in my instance, given the fact the very Astral Plane was about to collapse and Xavier, Holocaust, Jean Grey and Psylocke were in huge pain because of it, but also that Cable's safehouse which could withstand nuclear strikes and other types of attacks was blown up with a thought... I'm sorry mate, but i still see your instance a bit too vague.

i would say the fact that James can teleport is another good reason but it also seems Cable's TK was not 100% while under E-M fields, which given that Mac can teleport i see no reason why it shouldnt happen

Huh? Cable wasn't under any E-M fields here and actually, his TK was stronger than ever during that time because Sinister cured him temporarily so his Techno-Organic Virus wasn't an issue for him. Mac can't teleport in combat... He's not Nightcrawler for vine's sake. :P

btw what are the feats of the this guy who moves at lightspeed... do we even have a name for him?

also you are claiming that Cable can mind read at lightspeeds and im sorry but that really isnt true... to claim him using TP at lightspeeds... even Martian Manhunter cant do that and MM has better reaction feats than Cable does

this Cable also has very few combat feats with someone on a high tier... i mean i would have used the fact that he was able to keep up with Surfer as a better reaction feat than the lightspeed one...

reacting at lightspeeds is not something Cable does... he hasnt done it but that once and to top it all off he was telekinetically holding the building apart while reacting at lightspeeds... your're gonna call James hurting Galactus PIS but not this (which you seem to have done a good job of but still he hurt Galactus by himself)... c'mon bro

This scan will answer your questions...

No Caption Provided
  • The name of the character is Dr. Edward Lansky aka. Lightmaster.
  • Cable wasn't able to TP him precisely because his mental patterns were turned into pure light, ergo, i never claimed such thing.

Why would i recur to ABC logic? Let alone to suffice Cable's reaction speed if Surfer didn't exploit his speed to begin with... The instance is useless to address reaction speed whereas this one applies graciously.

You're missing the point, Cable needed to teleport Lightmaster to the freaking Moon for him to be able to react on time. Yes, he reacted to someone that was moving at lightspeed but he reacted under the time he stated he was going to come back if he broke Cable's TK hold. I already stated he was getting seriously blitzed before even while perceiving Lightmaster when they were close, once Lightmaster was on the Moon he had enough time to react rather than just perceive and do nothing... See the point now?

The PIS claim is baseless and a bit preposterous mate. I never claimed your instance was PIS but the contrary, i found some significant context to justify Guardian harming him, without the context, it would be PIS and still, i wouldn't state it since i strongly consider such arguments as amateurish. I mean, PIS arguments are used when you don't really have an argument.

again a truly amazing feat one that would surely be a pinch in James butt... but he can teleport if Cable tries to do this

C'mon Kidman... The teleportation ability isn't even mentioned in Guardian's powerset in 2 different handbook entries, moreover you haven't shown the ability on combat. He's NOT Nightcrawler...

to be honest i really do... i spent 30 minutes typing it up... Cable's TP can and will analyzed in a split second and then disrupted, Guardian can avoid the other 2 by teleporting and he can close the distance and use an E-M field then

also Cable has never molecularized someone with his morals on... and i have never seen him do it while fighting someone...

Then you wasted 30 minutes typing something that didn't quite reach your expectations. Split a second? Were there any time indicators in any of your instances or is this just a mere assertion? I didn't see anything to suggest a time lapse. I'm almost done with the teleporting ability, im near positive he can't teleport while fighting, let alone teleporting at will to places given the whole context behind the instance you showcased.

As for the last statement, he actually has...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

In Soldier X #7 he turned a soldier's hands into nuclear bombs, in fact, i believe this is something a LOT worse than what im trying to strategize here. So yeah, it is within Cable's morals to do this type of things. Do you really need a combat feat with this ability? I mean, he does this with a thought, it's not like im presenting him doing it while siting on a desk and within 30 minutes of mental struggle... He just needs a nod and a wave of his hand to perform such tactic, i'm not implying i can't prove it but i feel it's unnecessary. Anyway, here's a feat from Soldier X #10...

No Caption Provided

TK powerhouse right there... Do i need to say more? On the other hand, teleporting indeed needs to be showcased combat-wise since the ability could be fairly referred as a travel ability. The ball is on your side pal.

1. Guardian closes distance with teleport than uses EM-Field, and then scans and disrupts Cable for TP

2. by teleporting he negates any direct TK

3. should Cable try to use objects Guardian tanks them (which im glad you posted the scan of him tanking Heather, Human Torch, Shaman, Windshear and Talisman) because Heather

4. Cables Shields can be overloaded

5. you have been relying on TP and TK this entire time... when thats not available Cable doesnt really have anything else, he doesnt have the Physicals to beat James and James can pretty much do what he wants)

6. James keeps Cable of balance (using his Electro-Magentic manipulation or teleporting) and not give him time to use Telepathy or Telekinesis while overloading Cable's shield and continually hitting him with Blasts (and we've seen that a blast is capable of killing Snowbird in Sasquatch form)

7. i'll admit the distance thing could have caused some trouble had James not been able to teleport but seeing as while teleporting Cable won't be able to screw with him telepathically

- He can't teleport but apparently he can disrupt TP frequencies in his cyborg persona after he gains access to their wavelengths. Which is something you can't really exploit here since there is not a single teammate that will force Guardian to turn into a cyborg this time and no, he can't turn into a cyborg at will, at least, not with the proof you've shown here.

- He can't teleport in combat.

- Cable is not going to use any objects the way you're implying but i don't really care, Cable won't need to recur to battlefield usage to beat Guardian if he could end this battle with a wave of his hand.

- "Overloaded"? I think you're misreading your own scan mate, it says "override" which by definition means have dominance over something or gain control over something. Overload means something that it's loaded above its capacity. That said, Doom's shields are NOT TK based and i find Guardian overriding Cable's as something quite hard to swallow since Cable's shields are not technology based, which coincidentally, overriding cybernetic objects and whatnot is actually a provable ability of Guardian, well well, look what we have here, more context! Anyway, Guardian still needed to have access to Doom's wavelengths, it is not something he does off the bat.

- LMAO! Let me point some things out mate... I am not "relying" on TP and TK, im merely using both of these abilities to make this battle a stomp, i hardly showcased everything Cable has to offer, hell, all his tech, weapons and gear are still in the shadows. That said, i found your claim inexplicably funny because, if there's someone relyong on something it is you, furthermore, putting all your hopes on an ability that doesn't even exists combat-wise, not even in Handbook entries. You've been mentioning teleportation in almost all your arguments when essential proof is still missing. Just in your previous post i pointed out 7 times James can't teleport by bolding and underlining, you sure im the one "relying" on things?

- James can't teleport and Cable isn't a statue.

- The distance factor is almost irrelevant in this match, Cable beats him whether he's near or far.

To summarize...

  • Cable turns Guardian into a carrot mentally-wise.
  • Cable disassembles or transmutes Guardian's insides.
  • Cable shuts him down.
  • Cable dismantles him.
  • Oh look! 4 ways for Cable to stomp him while using his 2 most used abilities.
  • You're case is leaving way too much important context behind and half of your abilities are unusable in this battle because of it.

Your turn mate.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#35 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#36 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for ghostravage
#37 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#38 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@kidman560: Bemp. :)

its a lot harder to continue this when i realize i chose a way to weak character for this... im about ready to wrap this up 1 more post

Avatar image for ghostravage
#39 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#40 Posted by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: I see... Fine with me i guess...

yeah my eagerness to use Guardian pretty much jumped the gun and my common sense was like

"dude this is Omega Cable... hello"

ego says "Naw Bro you got this use a weaker character that you love yeah that'll work"

"but"

"bro bro it will work"

:p

but i did have fun thats why im agreeing to finish it... well and i respect you and dont want to waste your time

Avatar image for ghostravage
#41 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: I understand mate, the respect is mutual (bro hugs). Looking forward to your last reply.

Avatar image for kidman560
#42 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: bro your reply was longer than i thought... its taking more time bear with me plz

Avatar image for kidman560
#43 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: bro your reply was longer than i thought... its taking more time bear with me plz

Avatar image for killemall
#44 Edited by Killemall (18972 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#45 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage im still gonna make you work for it as best as i can :P

Wrap up

I'll admit in terms of sheer power Cable does holds the advantage but if Cables gonna win... hes gonna have to earn it...

First of all, let me address one of the instances you mentioned in your previous argument. I looked for the issue and some context about that scan really caught my attention. The Neural Disrupting instance in Alpha Flight #94... The fact that he needed to be completely off his human persona and enter into his cyborg persona to exploit this ability means he's not really performing such tactic as easily as you're claiming, let alone him being unable to break free from TP by himself in the instance and his team was needed for him to be forcibly put into cyborg mode.

after finally re-reading the issue it would seem you are correct... however the part where he can scan frequencies and block them as a human is correct. he just wont have the Cyborg mind... which hurts but isnt life ending...

You're saying Guardian can tap into his cyborg persona at will, followed by a series of scans that do not support such claim. First of all, there's not a single shred of evidence he changed back to his human persona in any of those scans, the fact that his dialogue bubbles where drew like rectangles in resemblance of that of a robot means he was still under his cyborg persona in all 4 scans. Secondly, there's some context missing... Again...

youre right he cant acces cyborg persona he was switched off... i missed that one... but it really is isnt necessary hes capable of accessing the same functions under his human mind

There's nowhere in either his updated handbook entry nor his Master Edition handbook entry that states he can tap into his cyborg persona at will, so from where are you getting this? There's nothing you've shown to support such stance, even misusing context in an intent of proving it. In fact, the only legit proof shown here was mine, which works entirely against your case, but sure, i'm still open to your explanation but honestly... I hardly doubt you would be able to support your stance right now.

As for this "teleportation" ability you've been mentioning all along the debate, i fail to see how he possess it, let alone applicable in combat. I believe something like that would be stated in his handbook entries but again, nothing is stated, not even in his updated handbook entry of 2011...

thats the handbooks' bad... hes even time traveled

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

this sent him 1000s of ears back in time... he had to remove his saftey protocols for time travel (this is legit mastery of the EM spectrum but unfortunately its not exactly a battle feat) but yeah he can teleport this much i do know

Seems a bit too convenient Guardian managed to teleport an entire crew of Super Humans, specially to Planet Qwurl when context like this is shown. By now, i hardly doubt he has teleportation as a regular ability, more like a one time ability specially attuned for this occasion. Still, even if the ability does exist, which mi quite skeptical it does, you're not showcasing it in combat but traveling. I can easily discard it.

except he also he teleported more than once in that set of scans... and he does have the power to teleport. i see no reason why he couldnt use it to close the distance which should be all he needs to use it for... as in your scans of when Cable did have his Neural Waves manipulated he didnt use his TK either... but i should note this E-M disruption did keep anyone in the vicinity from moving

I don't have hopes, i'm certain i could bring more strategies to the game but i want to make this match a stomp rather than a close match since i see Guardian and Savior Cable in total different tiers. Anyway, you're a bit too confident with that claim... Do you really read the issue or are you just assuming? If anything, i'm noticing a pattern here, way too much context missing or flat out misused. This is what they were doing before Cable mind-linked with Machine-Man...

lol they are... i might have been a bit hasty (happens often). by the way i torrent most comics but i have so many it cycles on rotation i usually read once and then delete... and i save the images on scan drive. im only 17 i cant afford to buy a bunch of comics... i have to make up the money i lost when i crashed my car (i started crying when i saw how much i would need :'( no joke it was embarassing)

Moreover, the usage of your Cajun scan has no relevancy to mine as Xavier clearly states he has trouble with Gambit because of his mutant power, not because he's not letting himself get through his mind which i'm quite certain Xavier wouldn't have trouble doing if he has done it to Hulk, which is divinely more resistant to this kind of assaults than Gambit. Speaking of, Cable actually managed to overpower Hulk's mind by himself while he was in a very weakened state in Cable #34...

but still Xavier differentiates between the two he said it was difficult to perform a mind link more so a whole telepathic scan implying that just linking to anyone requires less difficulty than complete mind wipe... and i have to agree.

You pretty much stated Guardian was superior offensively than Nate, to address my instance... Let me quote:

i again want to repeat i know Nate Grey is in every way superior to Guardian perhaps my word choice was incorrect... i should have said something along the lines of

"Guardian has been able to hurt characters that have had pretty good showings against Nate"

if i had said that i would have gotten my intended point across without sounding like an idiot (which admittedly is not that hard to do)

Why would i recur to ABC logic? Let alone to suffice Cable's reaction speed if Surfer didn't exploit his speed to begin with... The instance is useless to address reaction speed whereas this one applies graciously.

You're missing the point, Cable needed to teleport Lightmaster to the freaking Moon for him to be able to react on time. Yes, he reacted to someone that was moving at lightspeed but he reacted under the time he stated he was going to come back if he broke Cable's TK hold. I already stated he was getting seriously blitzed before even while perceiving Lightmaster when they were close, once Lightmaster was on the Moon he had enough time to react rather than just perceive and do nothing... See the point now?

The PIS claim is baseless and a bit preposterous mate. I never claimed your instance was PIS but the contrary, i found some significant context to justify Guardian harming him, without the context, it would be PIS and still, i wouldn't state it since i strongly consider such arguments as amateurish. I mean, PIS arguments are used when you don't really have an argument.

trading blows with Surfer is a feat itself... but i guess i did miss the point...

C'mon Kidman... The teleportation ability isn't even mentioned in Guardian's powerset in 2 different handbook entries, moreover you haven't shown the ability on combat. He's NOT Nightcrawler...

to be fair this was one instance i was correct on... he has teleported before...

Then you wasted 30 minutes typing something that didn't quite reach your expectations. Split a second? Were there any time indicators in any of your instances or is this just a mere assertion? I didn't see anything to suggest a time lapse. I'm almost done with the teleporting ability, im near positive he can't teleport while fighting, let alone teleporting at will to places given the whole context behind the instance you showcased.

never a waste bro this was too much fun for any part of it to be waste... there werent but i am using instances of how long it normaly takes doom to teleport but now that i think about it i cant find one that actually puts a time limit on them i might have jumped the gun here

Cable is not going to use any objects the way you're implying but i don't really care, Cable won't need to recur to battlefield usage to beat Guardian if he could end this battle with a wave of his hand.

just saying if it happens

- "Overloaded"? I think you're misreading your own scan mate, it says "override" which by definition means have dominance over something or gain control over something. Overload means something that it's loaded above its capacity. That said, Doom's shields areNOT TK based and i find Guardian overriding Cable's as something quite hard to swallow since Cable's shields are not technology based, which coincidentally, overriding cybernetic objects and whatnot is actually a provable ability of Guardian, well well, look what we have here, more context! Anyway, Guardian still needed to have access to Doom's wavelengths, it is not something he does off the bat.

no i meant overloaded... he controls the E-M spectrum he uses it to overload the shield

- LMAO! Let me point some things out mate... I am not "relying" on TP and TK, im merely using both of these abilities to make this battle a stomp, i hardly showcased everything Cable has to offer, hell, all his tech, weapons and gear are still in the shadows. That said, i found your claim inexplicably funny because, if there's someone relyong on something it is you, furthermore, putting all your hopes on an ability that doesn't even exists combat-wise, not even in Handbook entries. You've been mentioning teleportation in almost all your arguments when essential proof is still missing. Just in your previous post i pointed out 7 times James can't teleport by bolding and underlining, you sure im the one "relying" on things?

i saw the bolding and underlining thank you for that

- James can't teleport and Cable isn't a statue.

well actually he can and are you sure he looks all stone like and everything... has the emotions of a statue, looks kind of funny, he might be a statue. :P

Last Points

not terrible for my first time using James Hudson... i tend to make allot of mistakes for my first characters but i also didnt put him up against the easiest of opponents

always a pleasure debating you

my arguments seem a little thin because they were... around half-way through your second post i was like "shit what did i get myself into" it seems i underestimated Cable (wont do that again)

i think i missed some of the points you made but in that last post it was so long i kept loosing which parts i had read and which ones i havent...

you also gotta see what killemal made if you havent already

Avatar image for ghostravage
#46 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Alright mate, let's end this up...

I'll admit in terms of sheer power Cable does holds the advantage but if Cables gonna win... hes gonna have to earn it...

Cable does have the power advantage in this battle, actually, im almost positive they stand in a total different ground in potential. But i think you already came to realize that :P

after finally re-reading the issue it would seem you are correct... however the part where he can scan frequencies and block them as a human is correct. he just wont have the Cyborg mind... which hurts but isnt life ending...

What im trying to imply by mentioning Guardian's lack of Cyborg persona is the fact that without it, there's nothing he can really do to get himself out of a telepathic assault. Moreover, he can't tap into his cyborg persona by himself, furthermore, Cable can also attack his Cyborg persona's mind telekinetically. In other words, both his human and cyborg sides are going to be attacked at the same time, which consequentially takes away any shred of chance of exploiting either of the sides.

To put it simple... Telepathic assaults can't avoided here.

youre right he cant acces cyborg persona he was switched off... i missed that one... but it really is isnt necessary hes capable of accessing the same functions under his human mind

While i never doubted he could access the same functions of his cyborg persona as a human given the fact it was actually stated in his biographical entry, the real importance of his cyborg persona was him getting away from a telepathic assault and given the proof and evidence shown here, there's nothing he can do to stop it. He will get shut off in the first seconds of the fight.

thats the handbooks' bad... hes even time traveled

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

this sent him 1000s of ears back in time... he had to remove his saftey protocols for time travel (this is legit mastery of the EM spectrum but unfortunately its not exactly a battle feat) but yeah he can teleport this much i do know

I don't think the Handbook entries are wrong nor badly written, i think they would include the real abilities such characters can exploit on regular basis and have exploited more than once. I believe time travel isn't on his regular powerset and im quite convinced it happened with the same consistency as his teleporting ability, ergo, once.

except he also he teleported more than once in that set of scans... and he does have the power to teleport. i see no reason why he couldnt use it to close the distance which should be all he needs to use it for... as in your scans of when Cable did have his Neural Waves manipulated he didnt use his TK either... but i should note this E-M disruption did keep anyone in the vicinity from moving

He teleported once, to travel with the superhuman team to Planet Qwurl... Look at your scans again, he goes from 1 place to another and that's it. As for Cable's instance, he uses TK right after being released from those neural dampeners in Cable #62...

No Caption Provided

So yeah, he did use TK in the instance. As for the E-M field, it slow them down, not flat out immobilized them.

lol they are... i might have been a bit hasty (happens often). by the way i torrent most comics but i have so many it cycles on rotation i usually read once and then delete... and i save the images on scan drive. im only 17 i cant afford to buy a bunch of comics... i have to make up the money i lost when i crashed my car (i started crying when i saw how much i would need :'( no joke it was embarassing)

No mate, they are not... I was merely testing my potential chances of a stomp, which in my humble opinion, i think i've managed to prove. I understand mate, too bad for your car mate, happened the same to me when i was 16 so i know how that feels :/.

but still Xavier differentiates between the two he said it was difficult to perform a mind link more so a whole telepathic scan implying that just linking to anyone requires less difficulty than complete mind wipe... and i have to agree.

Once someone is linked, there isn't anything stopping a telepath from probing or flat out control you rather than your will or your super powered resistance to such things and im 100% sure either of those attributes fall on Guardian's side. Difficult or not, Guardian has no feats to suggest he will resist Cable's telepathic powers.

i again want to repeat i know Nate Grey is in every way superior to Guardian perhaps my word choice was incorrect... i should have said something along the lines of

"Guardian has been able to hurt characters that have had pretty good showings against Nate"

if i had said that i would have gotten my intended point across without sounding like an idiot (which admittedly is not that hard to do)

Agreed. :P

trading blows with Surfer is a feat itself... but i guess i did miss the point...

It is a feat, but not the best for the ability i was trying to showcase.

to be fair this was one instance i was correct on... he has teleported before...

He teleported once under serious context and totally outside of combat mate. The time traveling instance doesn't glue to your strategy either.

never a waste bro this was too much fun for any part of it to be waste... there werent but i am using instances of how long it normaly takes doom to teleport but now that i think about it i cant find one that actually puts a time limit on them i might have jumped the gun here

I see, you're very optimistic mate, refreshing indeed :P.

no i meant overloaded... he controls the E-M spectrum he uses it to overload the shield

But the on-panel proof differs from your point of view. It clearly states he overrides and even his handbooks refers to the ability as overriding rather than overloading. Either way, this point doesn't hold much so take it as you will mate.

i saw the bolding and underlining thank you for that

LMAO! No problem bro :P

well actually he can and are you sure he looks all stone like and everything... has the emotions of a statue, looks kind of funny, he might be a statue. :P

He could teleport... To one place... While being controlled... By an ancient alien race... That granted him the ability to do so... And i guess Cable does seems as a statue. :P

not terrible for my first time using James Hudson... i tend to make allot of mistakes for my first characters but i also didnt put him up against the easiest of opponents

always a pleasure debating you

my arguments seem a little thin because they were... around half-way through your second post i was like "shit what did i get myself into" it seems i underestimated Cable (wont do that again)

i think i missed some of the points you made but in that last post it was so long i kept loosing which parts i had read and which ones i havent...

you also gotta see what killemal made if you havent already

It was also my first time arguing for Cable this much, although im really versed with him overall. It was indeed a pleasure, even though i think this could've gone better for you, this still served me as practice and actually helped me organize the feats and whatnot about Cable so thanks for that :P.

I agree your arguments were a little thin mate, wording and point presenting are key in CaVs... Bad match up i would say, but it's also my fault i didn't know your character until we started this. I could've warn you.

No biggie mate. And i saw Killemall's post... Remembered me of one he made with him and me. Always funny :P

To summarize...

  • Well, there's isn't much to say actually. Cable is more powerful, deadlier and im positive he will beat Guardian here.
  • Best of luck to you mate, calling out votes.

Avatar image for ghostravage
#47 Edited by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for kidman560
#48 Edited by kidman560 (7638 posts) - - Show Bio

Calling out for votes guys! Criticism is accepted!

yes but

i dont answer to them... :P
i dont answer to them... :P

Avatar image for ghostravage
#49 Posted by GhostRavage (14922 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Lol :P That's a double edged sword mate.

Avatar image for cosmicallyaware1
#50 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: lemme reread this when I can keep my eyes open, long day. I will be back with a vote and dissection on why.