CaV BSM Naruto(RikuYamaha) vs Wano arc Luffy(eazy2002)

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#1 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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The Child of Destiny, Naruto Uzumaki(used by @rikuyamaha)

Vs

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The King of the Pirates! Monkey D. Luffy(Used by @eazy2002)

This debate will be short and consist of:

Opener

Counter

Conclusion

RULES

BSM Naruto

Wano arc Luffy

Morals on

Random encounter

Win by KO, death & incap

VOTING RULES

This is a debate between me & Eazy. do not interfere in the debate

asked to be tagged please.

You cannot post anything regarding the battle or the debate until it's over

After the debate is over & the title shows "open for votes", you can vote. Remember that you do not vote for who should win according to you or according to the feats or logic, but you have to vote for the better debater, solely on the evidence provided. You have to see who presented their case better and made a convincing argument on how their character wins

Give reasons for your vote

If a vote is/looks biased, we will not count it

We are both very open for constructive criticism

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#2 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by UltimateSage (840 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh yeah!!!

T4V and TAEP

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#6 Posted by ovy7 (4067 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting, just TAEP for now.

Also, I advice you guys to not use full pages scans (unless you want to get banned), because of the scans rules.

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#7 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

Child of destiny...NARUTO!

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Things to know.

Chakra (チャクラ, chakura) is essential to even the most basic technique. Through various methods, the most common of which is hand seals, chakra can be controlled and manipulated to create an effect that would not be possible otherwise, such as walking on water, exhaling fire, or creating illusions.

Ninjutsu (忍術, English TV: Ninja Art, Literally meaning: Ninja Techniques) is one of the three main jutsu categories. Ninjutsu is the most nebulous of the three, and may most simply be described as anything that is not genjutsu or taijutsu. Most ninjutsu require chakra and hand seals, but this is not always the case since the mere usage of weaponry qualifies as ninjutsu.

Taijutsu (体術, Literally meaning: Body Techniques) is a basic form of techniques and refers to any techniques involving the martial arts or the optimization of natural human abilities. Taijutsu is executed by directly accessing the user's physical and mental energies, relying on the stamina and strength gained through training.

Senjutsu (仙術, English TV: Sage Jutsu, Literally meaning: Sage Techniques) is a specialised field of techniques that allows the user to sense and then gather natural energy. Senjutsu practitioners learn to draw the energy of nature inside of them, blending it with their own chakra. This adds a new dimension of power to the practitioner's chakra.

theses are the basics. i'll show the rest in my post.

Strength

naruto is absolutely no slouch when it comes to strength. as a kid,naruto was strong enough with a few drops of kuubi charka to completely destroy hakus ice mirrors casually. you have to remember, this ice was strong enough to withstand sasukes fireball jutsu,which was able to burn a chunk of rock much bigger than himself.

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Allso as a kid, he was able to completely stop a giant snake from crushing his friends. this snake my several times bigger then the group.

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naruto is at least as strong as sasuke as a kid before he used the curse mark,and sasuke was stronger the lee, who wore weights that caused massive air clouds once dropped. sasuke was faster then said lee when he copied lees moves, and naruto wasnt only able to keep up with him, but overpower sasuke as well.

but this is just kid naruto, lets get into some spicy stuff like teen naruto.

as a teen,naruto with a kuubi amp was able to casually destroy a large portion of forest with a swipe of his hand when fighting orochimaru.

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this cleared a rather large portion of the forest, just by the shockwave of his enraged swipe. Later in that fight Naruto went to active his 4 tails mode. Where he was able to kill over 100 snakes sent towards him by Orochimaru with a casual wave. This also created a large shockwave that could be felt across the forest.

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this caused his former captain yamato to comment on how strangely op this form was. this naruto is pretty damn strong,to where i would even comment that this form would be a danger to luffy cause of the massive amp in power he has. those trees seem to be the type that dwarf humans making that area a lot bigger than one might think.

Naruto with access more power of Kurama became strong enough to literally scream to level an area that dwarfed the gentle mountains that were immediately around it.

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the simply act of screaming caused a massive hole so big,it made everything around it in comparison small next to it. and if i might add, this was caused by naruto simply releasing a little smidgen of kuramas charka.

now,im pretty done doing small feats of fodder naruto right now. lets have some party cake alright!

in half sage mode,naruto was able to lift a giant frog statue over his head,and even to his surprise, was clearly happy over on how powerful this form was.

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clearly his roblox oof says it all. such strength. but besides that lol, naruto was able in his newly formed perfect sage mode to chunk a giant rhino out of the village with no effort.

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the village by itself is rather large might i add, so to throw something of that size and cailber would take a substantial amount of force to do. and naruto just scuffs this off like it didn't happen. He didn't even budge despite the fact that the ground around him was shattered. Which means, that Naruto must have tossed it many Miles away, which is just ludicrous in my option for someone whos previous incantations was able to cause a causally destroy a forest . It means sage mode is a huge amp. Add that to the already immense power of KCM2(which, scaling to KC4 of an inferior Naruto, is at small mountain level potency) and the half power of Kurama(multi mountain level) and you've got yourself this beast. this is imo allready to punch for luffy to handle as luffy hasn't shown something close to this.

and lets not froget when naruto in 8 tails was able to tear out of a chibaku tensei.

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now, let me say so you can clearly see on how massively outmatched luffy is in physical. theses are all WEAKER versions of naruto im using. but right now, lets get into speed shall we?

SPEED!

Ninja in this verse are very fast, even the fodder can move faster than the eye can see.

And these are not weak ninja, they are quite fast.

Sasuke and Naruto are both on par with Neji as a kid.

Sasuke was able to dodge actual sound attacks, and the enemy ninja state they can move as fast as sound(though honestly i think the movement speed for the enemies ninja is a outlier.), but sasuke was able to dodge the sound and sneak up on them without them noticing.

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naruto after this point should be faster then sasuke at that point,which makes him faster then said sound. and hes allso faster then the eye,via his showings with gaara as sasuke blitzed said gaara faster then his eyes or sand could keep up.

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gaaras sand shield was fast enough to intersect a explosion. now for a explosion, they are 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), faster then said eye. now,what does naruto do to this said super fast sasuke i mentioned?

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blitzes sasuke to high heavens. This is impressive because the sharingan lets sasuke perceive things that are even too fast for him such as rock lee, to a degree greater than that of a regular human, but he couldn't even see naruto moving. and to add some icing,naruto can move so fast,he can create after images of himself while running.

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now lets move on from fodder baby booboo naruto and into my boy teen sage naruto,who was fast enough to blitz a path of pain that was about to blitz tsudere.

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just to let you know, this was without the other paths noticing him. as known, the paths of pain all share vision with eachother. so in a wide open field that one of the paths destroyed, they couldnt react to said naruto coming in and blitzing one. and to put this bluntly,the pain he one shotted, was one who intercepted kakashi as he attempted to lightning blade one of the paths.

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we allready know kakashi as a kid was fast enough to cut lightning in half, so this pain was able to speed said kakashi,while naruto was able to blitz said pain. Which would make kakashi MHS+ as an adult. Which in turn puts that pain at high MHS+. And SM naruto much higher for blitzing a peak physical condition Pain. Putting SM Naruto at casual high MHS+.

this is even more supported as sage naruto was fast enough to react and blitz the third rikage.

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The 3rd raikage is a legend for having soloed an army of shinobi for 3 days.

this is absolutely insane,as baby form KCM was able to easily outpace a lightning formed raikage with no effort.

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he is compared to his dad,minato,who can do this casually.

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A feat that is superior to SM Naruto's best feat which comes down to the single digit microsecond tier. Which again is far superior to the speed feats of luffy. And this isn't even everything there is. Plenty of scalings and feats all point to the same thing.(But ill do that for later)

And guess what? KCM1 is still just a chunk of Kurama's full power.

but im done with this part as its pretty apparent.

DURABILITY

as a kid,naruto was able to tank a resengan/chidori class that caused a hill level explosion that was destroying the environment around it.

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Putting 14 year old KC1 Naruto's piercing and energy durability at hill levels. Again, at a massively inferior age with a drop of Kurama's chakra.

but besides that, KC4 Naruto no-sold getting stabbed across a large distance into a cliff.

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even after this,naruto created a bijuu bomb inside of his mouth, then ate it.

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and if you wondering "Oho? so what, he ate unfocused charka", this was the result of him releasing it.

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This feat is incredible, because it means even his stomach can tank what appears to be large hill-small mountain level potency,much expected of our favorite fox boy. And assuming that the durability of his cloak is > that of his stomach walls(which is a very reasonable assumption), it implies that a KC4 Naruto, and by extension, KCM2 Naruto can tank at least small mountain level potency.

now lets get into a stronger naruto,in BM, who Fu$$ing no-sold a head on strike from the juubi, which was comparable to Kurama himself.

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this should be VERY clear that naruto has better durability then luffy.

no lets get into something else shall we?

Techniques

obviously, i couldn't speak of naruto without showing off his techniques, his most known by is his shadow clone jutsu. you Can't think of a fight where he didn't start or at the very least use this as a second or third move. Even as a kid, right after learning the technique(when his chakra control was crude), the guy could make 1000+ clones casually without Kurama's chakra.

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this was when his charka was awful, but going up to his teens, his charka was absolutely insane.

another one of his techniques is his transformation,which allows him to transform into varies objects and energy. via when he turned himself into a rasenshuriken.

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now that you know naruto can transform 10000+ clones that are basically equal to his monstrous strength, lets get into his other attacks.

his trademark technique Rasengan!

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as a kid,narutos unfocused rasengan was powerful enough to carve up trees and tear rocks down casually. it should hit the opponent from the front and back, or at least have enough power to destroy until it reaches the back. like when he hit a steel waterholding thing, and this was the end result.

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this is highly impressive for a low level genin to do yes? considering he hit still and caused this,naruto must of been hitting it with tons of force. For example, a tensile strength of a steel that can withstand 40,000 pounds of force per square inch. this may be expressed as 40,000 PSI or 40 KSI (with K being the denominator for thousands of pounds),which is enough to easily break open a human head. to break open a human head, you need 235 kg (520 pounds) or 2,300 newtons of force. in which this is GREATLY dawrfed by narutos attack,as a kid. and yes, i know luffy is somewhat immune to physical attacks, but let me show ya something.

and not only can he amp theses with sage mode, but he can create them to be more powerful,example when he fought the nine tails with shadow clones with GAINT rasengans.

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and now, the most dangerous weapon,besides the ones i'll speak of later to kill luffy would be his rasenshurkien. this is basically Rasengan except now its a ranged attack that is thrown like a giant disc. It can also expand for an even greater range. It was able to liquify (or something to that general effect) Human Pain after cutting him in half.

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pretty huge attack yeah? in a weaker form, it drawfed half of the leaf village by its destructive power by itself.

it allso has the ability to attack on a cellular level.

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so in my option,luffy has not delt with this level of destructive power,even with arament haki to attempt to save him. he can allso use his KCM mode to use charka arms to aim his rasenshurikens or rasengans at luffy to hit and destroy him.

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he can create charka arms from his body in kms to guard,attack and even super charge his attacks to make them more powerful.

naruto allso has extraordinary senses. allowing him to feel the life force around him to feel incoming attacks.

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Basically. Naruto's senses in sage mode are so massively superior to that of his base form, that his perception of his opponent's body and movements are also massively amplified. He can sense and percieve his opponent's body and movements so massively more sharply and finely, that his mind is able to predict his opponent's moves much earlier than it normally would. Which isn't exactly a proper precog, but it's good all the same.

naruto can allso use the energy in the air as a extension of his power,allowing him to use the surrounding area as his body to attack.

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now something luffy couldnt survive which i was saving for last,the tailed beast bomb.A black, extremely heavy ball made from positive chakra and negative chakra and is shot from the Bijuus mouth. The ball can be ingested first and regurgitated to fire a large energy blast, or shot in its ball form. it can be made to destroy anywhere from multiple city blocks, to a large mountains a few km across. via when a weaker naruto blew up a side of a mountain.

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its so powerful, narutos tail beast bomb can completely null other bijuus own muti mountain bijuubombs with sheer power

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ill save the rest for later, but here is my conclusion.

Conclusion

Naruto holds a blatant huge speed advantage.

In BSM, Naruto can damage luffy with strikes alone with charka arms, much less rasengan or rasenshuriken

In BSM, Naruto can tank pretty much everything luffy has to offer.

Naruto can regenerate from pretty much any damage that makes is past his durability in BSM.

Naruto can onshot luffy with Rasenshuriken.

Naruto can overwhelm luffy and his clones with countless Rasenshuriken simultaneously, removing any chance of observation haki or any other tricks luffy has.

Naruto can summon the gamabunta to keep luffy down so naruto can one shot.

Naruto can employ a bunch of clever strategies to counter any of luffys moves.

Naruto has sensory precog which coupled with his immense speed advantage as well as his skill advantage pretty much reduces any chance of luffy tagging him to zero.

this is pretty decent. cant wait for your post eazy!

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#9 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

hopefully i did good. im kinda rusty in CaVs now adays and i hope im still up to standards.

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#11 Edited by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

THE FUTURE PIRATE KING... MONKEY D. LUFFY

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THINGS TO KNOW...

Monkey D. Luffy is a young pirate who aspires to become the king of the pirates. In order to do this he must defeat many powerful pirates in order to get to the top.

Skills and Abilities.

Devil Fruit: Luffy acquired the devil fruit known as the gomu gomu no mi devil fruit. By consuming this fruit luffy has become a rubber man and has the ability to stretch or expand any part of his body. This devil fruit also gives him immunity to blunt force attacks.

Haki: There are 3 basic types of haki which are; Observation haki, Armament haki and Conquerors haki. If a haki user trains hard enough he can unlock the advance versions the different haki. Luffy also has Advanced observation haki which enables him to see the future

Combat Skills: Luffy has shown somewhat of a skill when it comes to hand to hand combat

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Now for the real deal...

STRENGTH.

In my opinion Luffy outclasses Naruto in this aspect. lets begin with pre-time skip luffy.

Luffy is able to lift giant golden ball over head.

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Luffy punches a sea monster and sends it over head.

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when luffy was wedged between two building he pushes them apart with ease to get free

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When defeating crocodile he sends him from under ground up the city. This result in luffy destroying BED ROCK, ,multiple buildings and a city block

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Luffy was able to carry a giant man with one hand and then proceed to slam him to the ground

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He sends a shark fishman into a mountain with a kick

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Luffy also oneshot a giant that could lift 1,000,000tons

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Here is the giant lifting 1,000,000tons with onehand

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A weakened luffy is able to use a massive boulder to destroy large hill

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Also just to add luffy beat zephyr with high difficulty, zephyrs body is durable enough to withstand an island sized explosion

Here below is the explosion zephyr took on.

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Luffy is able to effortlessly carry loads of massive cinder blocks

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He also able to punch steel plates as if it were jelly

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And finally luffy is able to punch a pacifista, which are androids that are made of a metal harder than steel, and also created a large crater

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SPEED.

Dodges Foxy's slow slow beam which are made of photons

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Luffy also casually dodges light beams

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Luffy dodges point blank bullet with ease

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Luffy dodges consecutive shark arrows which are stronger than bullets

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Also I know your gonna say, Naruto can throw kunais at quick speeds here is luffy dodging knives thrown at him at hypersonic speeds

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Luffy ran so fast the ground caught fire and he was faster than sight

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And lets not forget luffy dodges a MASSIVE, point blank explosion

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So ill say luffy out speeds naruto in this category as luffy has light speed reaction and incredible travel speed.

Lets not forget luffys speed form GEAR 4TH SNAKEMAN. The form enables him to project his arms hat godly speeds, he able to blitz katakuri who has future sight. How it works is that when the arms extend to attack they try to hit opponent. If the opponent is lucky enough to dodge the attack the arm will come back to attack but this time with greater speed and greater force.

Here is the snakeman in action

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And is anything happens luffy has observation haki which he can use to predict enemy movements before they happen. Even worse luffy has FUTURE SIGHT, which enables him to see 5 secs into the future. Luffy has a general speed advantage over Naruto.

DURABILITY.

Luffy has incredible durability if u come down to it. let begin:

Luffy was able to survive island splitting punch from gecko moria

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He also tanked wypers burn bazooka which was hot enough to liquefy gold

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This next feet will show luffys cutting attack durability. Luffy tanked a haki infused kick from doffy.

Doffys kick was so potent the shockwave from a NORMAL KICK was enough to decap 3Towers

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here below is the cutting power of the kick

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After getting hit with a little of Akainu magma he only suffered a scar. why this is impressive is because akainus magma is hot enough to vapourize steel without contack

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here below is a showing of how hot akainus magma is

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Luffy shrugs of a bite from a fishman shark on steroids. if I were to low ball this feat, a shark can bit with a force of 1.8 tons and luffy shrugged it off.

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Luffy also survives crocodiles poison which can dissolve rocks

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Now I have shown u some of luffys durabilities feats you should know that luffy can tank a multi mountain level explosion, Because he can tank island busters and powerful attacks. also luffy can amp his defense and durability with armament haki which is a spiritual armour that luffy can use to amp his attacks and his defense.

Now last Area I will touch is...

LUFFY DESTRUCTIVE CAPABILITIES.

Now ill say it straight Bsm Naruto has only shown multi mountain level explosion. Luffy has shown island busting potential. Here some of luffys destruction feats.

Luffy uses a gear 3 attack called giant thor axe to destroy an island

Here are the floating islands luffy destroyed

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Luffy also used gear 3 to oneshot a 300m monster under 10,000metres. That pressure could crush a steel submarine

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Above shows how many meters under water they were.

Below is to confirm the size of the sea creature.

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We know the kurama avatar is about 50m. If the kraken is 300m that means luffy oneshot a beast 6times the size of ninetails

In the same Luffy did 3km of damage to an island sized ship. How I know is because the scan below shows the amount of damage luffy did to the boat, The boat is the same size as a sea king and a seaking is 5km

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Luffy Has his transformation called gear 4 bound man. In the mod he can spam multiple city busting blows, destroy multiple buildings, push enemies over tremendous distances and is capable of teleporting. here are some of gear 4 attacks

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And finally luffy KING KONG GUN , it is strong enough to Obliterate an entire city.

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Stamina.

Luffy has enough stamina to fight cracker for 11hours.

So here is why luffy wins:

*Luffy has greater durability and stamina than Naruto which means he can outlast him

*Luffy has speed advantage which means he could outspeed naruto

*Luffy greater destruction force makes him able to put Naruto down with ease

*Yes I know Naruto has healing factor, but its seen in his final fight with sasuke that he cant heal if he is weak, worn out or low in chakra. luffy has enough feats to out last him

*As for his clones luffy could either put them down with conquerors haki or with his elephant galting attack.

Luffy wins

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#12 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: here it is.

Also each us us will have 2 counters each before voting

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#13 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

ok

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#14 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

COUNTERS! The real fight begins!

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Counters to strength

STRENGTH.

In my opinion Luffy outclasses Naruto in this aspect. lets begin with pre-time skip luffy.

Luffy is able to lift giant golden ball over head.

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yes,while this is impressive, its still no where around the strength of pre teen naruto casually swipping and destroying a portion of forest. the standard gold bar weights about 12 ounces. 12 ounces equal a pound. to high ball,lets say luffy is holding about two of the largest gold bars in the world. the heaviest bar is 8,818 ounces,which in pounds is 551.155 pounds. now to equal that X2, you get 1102.31 pounds. while impressive,no where close to the pure energy of kid naruto stopping the snake.

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the bar i said weighs at lest as much as two adult male lions, while this snake is clearly many times bigger then two lions. it should be with low ball as much as a elephant, when which a elephant weighs about 16,500 pounds. about a bit more then the lions.

Luffy punches a sea monster and sends it over head.

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again while impressive,isn't as much as the one i just sent.

when luffy was wedged between two building he pushes them apart with ease to get free

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the pushing of two buildings still isn't nothing to naruto stopping the rampaging snake. the snake i sent is about as big as several parts of the forest,as shown here.

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not only is this snake much larger then said golden ball and buildings and weights more,but naruto was heavily injured while doing so,which makes this feat alot more impressive.

When defeating crocodile he sends him from under ground up the city. This result in luffy destroying BED ROCK, ,multiple buildings and a city block

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contrary to minecraft lore,bedrock is just like any normal rock. bed rock is the hard, solid rock beneath surface materials such as soil and gravel. Bedrock also underlies sand and other sediments on the ocean floor. Bedrock is consolidated rock, meaning it is solid and tightly bound. Overlying material is often unconsolidated rock, which is made up of loose particles.

and now, destroying the city is impressive,still isnt as much as the snake feat i sent. The feat, especially the latter half where he stops the snake in it's path, easily qualifies as a building level-city block level blunt force. One should note that Naruto, or any ninja rather, grows stronger the more bijuu chakra they possess, and consider that he performed that feat with 1/100 of Kurama's full power.

Luffy was able to carry a giant man with one hand and then proceed to slam him to the ground

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this is honestly a weak feat next to naruto removing a entire forest with a swipe of his hand.

He sends a shark fishman into a mountain with a kick

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not a impressive strengh feat,as naruto can do such things in a kid form when he sent sasuke into the wall out of the water

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but while i admit this isnt the same strengh as what luffy shown, its still as impressive cause naruto had to hit with enough force to send sasuke from out of the water,and into said wall with enough force to cause it to crater.

Luffy also oneshot a giant that could lift 1,000,000tons

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while this does seem awesome in its own right, lifting for one character doesn't mean durability for the same person. plus in that panel,the giant was off guard,hence he couldn't guard himself against said attack.

A weakened luffy is able to use a massive boulder to destroy large hill

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now ill knowledge this,while this is inheriting awesome(one of my favorite scans ngl), its still no where close to a weaker nauto,doing this.

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Also just to add luffy beat zephyr with high difficulty, zephyrs body is durable enough to withstand an island sized explosion

Here below is the explosion zephyr took on.

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is this a noncanon movie? because from what i remember of One Piece Film: Z.,it was non canon. so i wont be counting this feat.

Luffy is able to effortlessly carry loads of massive cinder blocks

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cool,and what from the previous scans you sent puts him even over KCM4? his four tails form which destroyed a entire forest area by screaming?

He also able to punch steel plates as if it were jelly

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cool,narutos fodder rasengan can do the same thing, but tear though the steel.

And finally luffy is able to punch a pacifista, which are androids that are made of a metal harder than steel, and also created a large crater

nothing you shown even puts him over KCM4 naruto in strength, much less BSM naruto, a much stronger version.

COUNTERS TO SPEED!

Dodges Foxy's slow slow beam which are made of photons

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not impressive in the slightly,not even considering foxy is fodder, but the beams he sends are slow and only slows things down.

Luffy also casually dodges light beams

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while severely impressive, i wanna give this feat towards observation haki,which does save him from said attack. plus,luffy allso saw the attack coming before it was launched,which gives him time to move his HEAD slightly.

Luffy dodges point blank bullet with ease

not impressive,considering naruto as a kid was so fast,he could blitz sasuke,who outspeed gaaras sand,which could intersect a explosion.

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gaaras sand shield was fast enough to intersect a explosion. now for a explosion, they are 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), faster then said eye. This is impressive because the sharingan lets sasuke perceive things that are even too fast for him such as rock lee, to a degree greater than that of a regular human, but he couldn't even see naruto moving. and to add some burn,naruto can move so fast,he can create after images of himself while running.

bullet timing is unless here.

Luffy dodges consecutive shark arrows which are stronger than bullets

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already proven why this isn't impressive. plus, stronger doesn't equal faster.

Also I know your gonna say, Naruto can throw kunais at quick speeds here is luffy dodging knives thrown at him at hypersonic speeds

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in what way does this seem hypersonic? luffy isnt even concerned,and from what i know, bullets are faster then knife throwing,so this scan is bad.

Luffy ran so fast the ground caught fire and he was faster than sight

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ok,cool. luffy ran so fast his feet catch fire. not even impressive to the scans i allready sent.

naruto casually speed blitzed a pain with ease.

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just to let you know, this was without the other paths noticing him. as known, the paths of pain all share vision with eachother. so in a wide open field that one of the paths destroyed, they couldnt react to said naruto coming in and blitzing one. and to put this bluntly,the pain he one shotted, was one who intercepted kakashi as he attempted to lightning blade one of the paths.

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we allready know kakashi as a kid was fast enough to cut lightning in half, so this pain was able to speed said kakashi,while naruto was able to blitz said pain. Which would make kakashi MHS+ as an adult. Which in turn puts that pain at high MHS+. And SM naruto much higher for blitzing a peak physical condition Pain. Putting SM Naruto at casual high MHS+.

this luffy is fodder to even sage.

And lets not forget luffy dodges a MASSIVE, point blank explosion

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while impressive, i already stated said sasuke speed blitzed a gaaras sand which could react to explosions,and said naruto speed blitzed said sasuke with ease.

So ill say luffy out speeds naruto in this category as luffy has light speed reaction and incredible travel speed.

nothing you mentioned makes luffy faster then even sage naruto,much less BSM naruto who is insulting faster.

Lets not forget luffys speed form GEAR 4TH SNAKEMAN. The form enables him to project his arms hat godly speeds, he able to blitz katakuri who has future sight. How it works is that when the arms extend to attack they try to hit opponent. If the opponent is lucky enough to dodge the attack the arm will come back to attack but this time with greater speed and greater force.

Here is the snakeman in action

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now this is what i been waiting for, but sadly is outblitzed by charka cloak naruto. who blitzed the raikage who had LS synapses.

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His synapses fire off signals at LS speeds, which is absolutely insane. Human reaction time is around 0.25 seconds. Since the Raikage's neural propogation speed is around LS, it is hundreds of thousands of times faster than the speed of the electrical impulses(which is at best sonic) and in the single digit microsecond tier at the very least. Which is still hundreds of times more impressive the light speed reaction that luffy had.

SM Naruto moved fast enough to keep up with that^, and while some of it can be attributed to Sage mode's precog, which is valid counter, it still doesn't change the fact that Naruto struck the Rasengan before he could react. This implies even SM Naruto can potentially blitz luffy. KCM being even superior to SM, would completely outspeed luffy. There ample feats to suggest this, such as the time KCM Naruto blitz-dodged the raikage's fastest strike

And is anything happens luffy has observation haki which he can use to predict enemy movements before they happen. Even worse luffy has FUTURE SIGHT, which enables him to see 5 secs into the future. Luffy has a general speed advantage over Naruto.

nope.

COUNTERS TO DURABILITY!

DURABILITY.

Luffy has incredible durability if u come down to it. let begin:

Luffy was able to survive island splitting punch from gecko moria

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naruto has survived pretty much the same thing but at a weaker state.

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Naruto survived this blast with ease,as luffy got hurt by said hit.

He also tanked wypers burn bazooka which was hot enough to liquefy gold

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cool,naruto eatting a bijuu bomb was strong enough to vape the surrounding area.

This next feet will show luffys cutting attack durability. Luffy tanked a haki infused kick from doffy.

Doffys kick was so potent the shockwave from a NORMAL KICK was enough to decap 3Towers

cool,building level kicks.

After getting hit with a little of Akainu magma he only suffered a scar. why this is impressive is because akainus magma is hot enough to vapourize steel without contack

you froget to mention only a bit hit luffy while jimbe blocked the full hit. and even jimbe survived so i dont see your point.

Luffy shrugs of a bite from a fishman shark on steroids. if I were to low ball this feat, a shark can bit with a force of 1.8 tons and luffy shrugged it off.

cool,but can luffy tank something that hits on a celluar level(answer-no)

Luffy also survives crocodiles poison which can dissolve rocks

cool, you should of used the prision warden posion since it was way more potent but naruto allso survived something that vapes rocks. his own bijuu blast.

Now I have shown u some of luffys durabilities feats you should know that luffy can tank a multi mountain level explosion(Nothing you shown shows he can even tank a mountain attack...)

Because he can tank island busters and powerful attacks. also luffy can amp his defense and durability with armament haki which is a spiritual armour that luffy can use to amp his attacks and his defense.(Cool,naruto can amp his moves with sage mode,bijuu mode,KSM mode and BSM. nothing you mentioned even saves luffy from a single rasenshuriken,must less 50 of them by his clones)

Now last Area I will touch is...

Counter to DC

LUFFY DESTRUCTIVE CAPABILITIES.

Now ill say it straight Bsm Naruto has only shown multi mountain level explosion. Luffy has shown island busting potential. Here some of luffys destruction feats.

heh,hehe. funny.

Luffy uses a gear 3 attack called giant thor axe to destroy an island

cool,naruto causally one shot bijuu which are mountain busters with kurama mode

Here are the floating islands luffy destroyed

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Luffy also used gear 3 to oneshot a 300m monster under 10,000metres. That pressure could crush a steel submarine

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Above shows how many meters under water they were.

allow me to say, Modern nuclear attack submarines are estimated to have a test depth of 1,600 ft which means the estimated depth at which they would actually implode is about 2,400 ft. The bathyscape Trieste, made it to 35,813 feet in the Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench, a few hundred miles east of the Philippines. The ocean is 36,200 ft. deep there. The water pressure at that depth is over 1000 atmospheres. which is ALOT over the depths and pressure you were saying

Below is to confirm the size of the sea creature.

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We know the kurama avatar is about 50m. If the kraken is 300m that means luffy oneshot a beast 6times the size of ninetails

Kurama is so much taller then Gamabunta,who is over 55 feet tall, but when Gamabunta is laying down his body is twice the length of his height, being at 110 feet long. Gamabunta was summoned when Kurama attacked Konoha, and when laying on top of Kurama covered about half of his torso. Meaning that Kurama's torso is about 220 feet long. Legs are twice as long as a person's torso, meaning that Kurama's legs are 440 feet long when he was at his full height. Kurama's neck and head are 1/5th the height of his torso, and over twice as long. That makes his head 44 feet tall, and 88 feet long. His ears are 1.5 times the length of his head, being 132 feet long. Kurama's tails are twice the length of his main body, from his nose to his rear end.220 + 440 + 88 is 748 and double that is 1496 feet long for the length of his tail. Kurama's ears are 132 feet, his head and neck are 44 feet, his torso is 220 feet, his legs are 440 feet. Kurama's height when standing, measuring from his ears to the ground, is 836 feet tall. Kurama at his full height is over 836 feet tall before his size was reduced.220 + 440 + 88 + 1496 = 2244 Kurama, from his snout to the tip of his tails is over 2244 feet long, before his size was reduced.

Kurama's Height: 836 Feet or 254.8 Meters... or 255 Meters when rounded up. Kurama's Length: 2244 Feet or 683.97 Meters... or 684 Meters when rounded up.

The Smallest Height for something to be considered a mountain is 1,000 Feet.

there is absolutely no way the squid is bigger then kurama

In the same Luffy did 3km of damage to an island sized ship. How I know is because the scan below shows the amount of damage luffy did to the boat, The boat is the same size as a sea king and a seaking is 5km

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Luffy Has his transformation called gear 4 bound man. In the mod he can spam multiple city busting blows, destroy multiple buildings, push enemies over tremendous distances and is capable of teleporting. here are some of gear 4 attacks

city busting blows....wow, not like naruto can causally throw around mountain busting attacks and cellular destroying rasenshurkiens.

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And finally luffy KING KONG GUN , it is strong enough to Obliterate an entire city.

cool,naruto does this in KCM. not even KSM. this is pretty sad.

Counters

Luffy has enough stamina to fight cracker for 11hours.

ok.

So here is why luffy wins:

*Luffy has greater durability and stamina than Naruto which means he can outlast him

as i stated,luffy may have stamina,but not the durability to even come close to tank narutos attacks.

*Luffy has speed advantage which means he could outspeed naruto

allso as i stated,luffy would get blitzed by KCM naruto, must less BSM naruto.

*Luffy greater destruction force makes him able to put Naruto down with ease

as i stated in my previous, naruto has superior techniques and attacks that put him way above luffy.

*Yes I know Naruto has healing factor, but its seen in his final fight with sasuke that he cant heal if he is weak, worn out or low in chakra. luffy has enough feats to out last him

so unless luffy can make him low on charka after sharing his charka over a entire army,fighting two gods basically and then fighting his own friend in a death match for hours all in the same day, sure, luffy could wear out naruto(sarcasm ) ot: naruto has too much charka for luffy to even make a dent in it.

*As for his clones luffy could either put them down with conquerors haki or with his elephant galting attack.

conquerors wont work on beings equal or stronger then him. in which narutos clones are as strong as himself. plus,the clones are fast enough to evade said elephant guns.

Luffy wins

luffy has no counter for narutos pure destructive strengh,speed and techniques.

luffy gets obliterated with a rasenshuriken or bijuubomb.

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#16 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by UltimateSage (840 posts) - - Show Bio

I almost died at 50m kurama lol, but good countering Riku

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#18 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by UltimateSage (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@eazy2002 said:

@ultimatesage: kurama is 50-100m nothing more or less

yeah no, sorry no one believes you.......https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/kuramas-size-naruto-2022751/

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#20 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: He is still not 300m in size unlike the kraken that is 300m. Plss don't interfere with argument till debate is over.

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#21 Posted by UltimateSage (840 posts) - - Show Bio

@eazy2002: if you read it yes he above 300m easily. And you're the one who tagged me first, don't blame anybody else except for yourself

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#22 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage: Sorry for tagging u, but still plsss don't interfere till argument is done

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#23 Edited by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

COUNTERS!

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before I get into it let me clarify something, destroying portion of forest is not a strength feat but a destructive capability feat, and I have to say that's quite a low feat considering that luffy has replicated this feat while weakened in base form. As you can see below the dust cloud is the same size as that hill next to it not even to consider how big the size of the trees are.

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Lets begin the real deal...

STRENGTH COUNTER.

*You don't have any reason to down play base form luffy punching a sea monster. When Naruto punched the snake he punches it vertically downward and he is also amped with ninetails chakra, Luffy punched the sea king in base and sent it flying over head, its a far better feat than Naruto, because luffy sent the beast flying over head and he is also in base.

*Also luffy didn't carry one giant cinder block he carried A SHIP LOAD

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that far more impressive than any strength feat Naruto has to offer.

*Naruto and luffy don't compare when it comes to strength. Luffy has shown better strength feats in base than Naruto amped with ninetails chakra

*To add to luffy's strength feats he destroyed Picas head and fore body

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Below should show u how big pica is

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Pica by far dwarfs the city below him and luffy destroyed his fore body with ease.

Also luffy gear 3 with no haki can destroy massive structures with ease and also break through concrete without stress.

Here luffy is sending rob lucci though a cp9 tower with ease

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Luffy outclasses Naruto in strength especially when he uses g3.

SPEED COUNTERS.

*I don't like how u just said "nope" to observation haki and future sight. Observation haki enables luffy to know an enemies attack before it happens enabling him to take his next action. Basically its pre cognition. He used to dodge a massive point blank explosions with ease. The first case was when he dodged Caesar clowns explosions point blank

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Also the time luffy dodged a liquid explosion while weakened with ease

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*Weakened luffy dodges consecutive attacks from katakuri

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*Luffy dodges consecutive shurikens, WITHOUT HAKI

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*Also to consider luffy didn't need future sight or gear 2 to dodged them he does both in base. so if Naruto decided to spam a mountain level explosion, luffy at best will use future sight and g2 to evade successfully.

*You also overrate narutos speed when clearly he needed KCM to dodge raikage[which is fair to say that he is lightening speed]

Pre time skip luffy already has 2 lightening speed feats, first of them is when he was blocking lightening with his leg from hitting nami as they went up a giant been stalk.

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*Also to further proff my point is luffys battle with cp9. It is seen that weaker members of the cp9 are able to react to lightening.

Here below is khalifa a weak cp9 member reacting to lightening

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Khalifa blocks the lightening with ease. But here is luffy blitzing blueno and fighting on par with rob lucci who are stronger members[ I will also show proof that there is an order of strength from weakest to strongest

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Here below is luffy fighting on par with rob lucci the strongest cp9 member

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and finally below is proof that there in an order of strength in the cp9

*If not for anything luffy by far outspeeds Naruto because he was dodging light beams.

*Also u forget luffy has his snakeman form whos fists have divine speed.

Below will show u that the snakeman can stack so fast that its arms cant be seen

If u were to skip to 0:35 u will see my proof., plsss click on link and skip to 0:35 to see the feat.

DURABILITY COUNTER.

*U just claimed that luffy has no island level durability, so luffy tanking a punch that split an ISLAND isn't mountain level??? lol.

*Luffy has shown enough durability to tank a tailed beast bomb, why?, simple. a tailed beast bomb is a tailed beast chakra explosion, the power of the explosion does not come from its heat output[ as a tailed beast bomb has no heat out put, even if u wanted to give it heat capabilities luffy has extremely high resistance to heat as I have shown in my first argument.], but the true power comes from its extreme force. Luffy can tank it being that he has natural immunity to blunt forces by virtue of his devil fruit.

*Luffy can tank massive explosion pre time skip in base

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*Luffy gets right back up after explosion

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*Luffy also tanked a hit from that giant that was strong enough to lift 1,000,000tons.

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This should show u how durable luffy is.

*Well one thing ill really acknowledge Naruto for is his rasen shuriken. You claim it can cut to a cellular level, well its not a problem, luffy can use armament haki to block. Its a spiritual armour which will blok luffy against the attack.

DESTUCTIVE CAPABILITIES COUNTER.

*Yes the one piece strong world movie is canon proof is below. Oda draws shiki in the manga and as a backstory for sengoku and garp

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but I don't think the onepiece z movie is canon so ill exclude the feat.

This means luffy destroying island is a valid feat. here is the feat below

*Your always talk about luffy getting overwhelmed by numbers. Well ill give u 2 reasons why luffy will handle shadow clones with ease.[bear in mind my first reason will be plausible and my secon reason will be possible]

*Reason 1: Luffy can use his conquerors haki. This haki unleashes an aura which KO's people with low will or no will. Technically shadow clones have no will of their own they are only an extension of narutos will. They are obliged to do what ever Naruto wants them to do so I believe conquerors haki will be effective against them.

*Reason 2: Luffy's elephant galting attack. As I have said in my earlier argument luffys gear 3 elephant galting attack is able to do 3km of damage to an island size ship. Also considering the ship was made with a wood far more durable than steel and is able to survive pressures of the sea at 10,000metres. The average mountain is 300m.

if luffy did 3km of damage[I have shown this in my first argument], that means luffys damage range was 10mountains[3000m/300m=10]. Therefore luffy can put all shadow clones including Naruto down.

*Luffy also has his red hawk attack which is an attack in which luffy punches fire through his enemy. It is so potent in can burn under 10,000 meters underwater. At that depth even light cant penetrate, but luffys red hawk broke physics. here is the feat below

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This attack should help luffy against Naruto.

*Also gear 4 boundman has a major advantage over Naruto which is his overwhelming strength and speed. Gear 4 can spam attacks which sent doflamingo to different parts of dressrosa island at high speed, destroyed multiple buildings and sent doffy flying into a mountain side which created a massive crater[I have shown all these feats in the first argument]. Gear 4 also moves fast enough to seemingly teleport, even over long distances. Here is proof

Luffy was flying down from a mountain to the city when he suddenly appears behind doflamingo

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He also replicates the feat again below

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With this combo of speed and strength Naruto is going to be over whelmed by speed and a barrage of powerful attacks.

Now last but not least:

*Luffy destroyed a massive meteor which as the size of a sky island, he did this in base form. Luffy destroys a massive meteor called raigo. A raigo is so powerful that onehit can obliterate an island. But luckily due to luffy lightening immunity he is able to enter it and destroy it from the inside out. He did it in base.

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*Lastly Luffy has the KING KONG GUN. Naruto is not tanking a direct KKG. I mean look below, it is so powerful it sent massice chunks of the city into the air

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Luffy wins Naruto.

Ill like to clarify something as well, kurama is actually 50m. Here is proof.

Look at Naruto standing on the giant frog. U cant clearly see the frog is atleast 40m bigger than Naruto

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Here is the same frog sitting on kurama

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lol kurama is 50-100m

LUFFY WINS!

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#24 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by shirso (5499 posts) - - Show Bio

Will take a look

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#26 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok done

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#37 Edited by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

since this has begun too easy, ill relax some more with counters and some funny commentary.

COUNTERS!

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COUNTERS!

before I get into it let me clarify something, destroying portion of forest is not a strength feat but a destructive capability feat,

while you would be true, if naruto didn't literally slice with pure strength with his amp to destroy the portion.

and I have to say that's quite a low feat considering that luffy has replicated this feat while weakened in base form. As you can see below the dust cloud is the same size as that hill next to it not even to consider how big the size of the trees are.

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Lets begin the real deal...

funny. heres three tails doing the same thing,who is VASTLY weaker then said naruto im using.

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STRENGTH COUNTER.

*You don't have any reason to down play base form luffy punching a sea monster. When Naruto punched the snake he punches it vertically downward and he is also amped with ninetails chakra, Luffy punched the sea king in base and sent it flying over head, its a far better feat than Naruto, because luffy sent the beast flying over head and he is also in base.

i didnt downplay, the sea monster was literally fodder. heres your sea monster compared to the snake.

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the snake is so much bigger then that fodder sea monster its not funny. and the snake actually has strength feats,via destroying parts of the forest in a rampage.

*Also luffy didn't carry one giant cinder block he carried A SHIP LOAD

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that far more impressive than any strength feat Naruto has to offer.

super funny lmao. funny joke, but no, just no.

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If the shockwave of his strike, which should massively inferior to the PC lf the strike itself could extend damage so far one can imagine see that the strike itself would be many times more powerful, putting the strike at small hill potency. I should remind you that this is still only a tiny chunk of Kurama's full power. i would school you with naruto in four tails just flexing his charka and taking out a large portion of forest, but its funny you said "that far more impressive than any strength feat Naruto has to offer.". lol, stop downplaying.

*Naruto and luffy don't compare when it comes to strength. Luffy has shown better strength feats in base than Naruto amped with ninetails chakra

ok? this isnt base, this is strongest luffy vs BSM naruto, not base vs base. i dont see why you brought that up.

*To add to luffy's strength feats he destroyed Picas head and fore body

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Below should show u how big pica is

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Pica by far dwarfs the city below him and luffy destroyed his fore body with ease.

while impressive,really impressive,may i remind you naruto flexed and done this.

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when if you wanna say its similar or narutos is slightly below luffy, this is from 4 tails naruto, much less my boy BSM,who would curb 4 tails.

Also luffy gear 3 with no haki can destroy massive structures with ease and also break through concrete without stress.

cool, concrete breaking. never saw that in naruto..

Here luffy is sending rob lucci though a cp9 tower with ease

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Luffy outclasses Naruto in strength especially when he uses g3.

HAHA! your seriously putting building level feats against mountain level feats? heres something to make you rethink your ludicrous arguments.

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Now, enough with the fodder feats naruto. I suppose it's about time we take a look at what Naruto can do, when he accesses Kurama's full power. For starters, in his fight against Pain, the latter uses Chibaku Tensei to seal Naruto in spherical heap of rock extracted from the ground via a gravitational core suspended in the air. How big was the sphere you ask? Big enough to dwarf mountain ranges. The volume of the cylindrical area from which the CT sphere was created is quite visibly, massively superior to even a string of mountains across it's diameter, which implies that the mass of the CT is equivalent multiple mountain ranges. But what does Naruto do to it? Rips past it like it's made of paper. Do note that the durability of the sphere is far superior to what it would normally be because it is held together by extremely potent gravity, the same stuff that uprooted mountain ranges worth of rock against the Earth's gravity. Therefore the feat of blasting a hole in it, just by lunging out of it like Naruto did would be far far superior to simply destroying a small portion of a mountain man that isn't held by said gravity.

And this is still isn't Kurama's full power. This was just 8 tails as visible in the scans above. so rip luffy if he even trys to go hand to hand with naruto,much less one of HIS CLONES that can do similar feats.

SPEED COUNTERS.

*I don't like how u just said "nope" to observation haki and future sight. Observation haki enables luffy to know an enemies attack before it happens enabling him to take his next action. Basically its pre cognition. He used to dodge a massive point blank explosions with ease. The first case was when he dodged Caesar clowns explosions point blank

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Also the time luffy dodged a liquid explosion while weakened with ease

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yeah? so what, kid sasuke could outspeed the sand of gaaras where gaaras sand can easily react and act to said explosion. kid naruto outspeed said sasuke with ease.

"Observation haki enables luffy to know an enemies attack before it happens enabling him to take his next action. Basically its pre cognition." yeah,so what,narutos got the same thing with sage mode.

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and now your wondering,so what? what makes this so impressive is that Naruto could sense a war as if he were watching it firsthand from a different COUNTRY.

Naruto's senses in sage mode are so massively superior to that of his base form, that his perception of his opponent's body and movements are also massively amplified. He can sense and perceive his opponent's body and movements so massively more sharply and finely, that his mind is able to predict his opponent's moves much earlier than it normally would. Which isn't exactly a proper precog, but it's good all the same.

*Weakened luffy dodges consecutive attacks from katakuri

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then got plumbed not even long after... in snake man, while he had said 5 second future vision. in turn,someone with a faster reflex and speed and hit luffy and damage him,even if he got observation and armament haki.

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*Luffy dodges consecutive shurikens, WITHOUT HAKI

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this isnt even a good feat,considering this is a weaker luffy your using,who in which is not as fast as the luffy we are using.

*Also to consider luffy didn't need future sight or gear 2 to dodged them he does both in base. so if Naruto decided to spam a mountain level explosion, luffy at best will use future sight and g2 to evade successfully.

if luffy can even out speed a explosion that outclasses and is immensely bigger then mountains,sure. a explosion that can cover 7150 m wide (diameter) virtually instantly,sure luffy can dodge(sarcasm)

*You also overrate narutos speed when clearly he needed KCM to dodge raikage[which is fair to say that he is lightening speed]

as i stated before,who cares if its KCM when im clearly using a better version BSM. plus, that was a CLONE that DODGED a FASTER raikage(third raikage) with ease. the baby kcm that dodged the fourth was compared to minato,a ahem teleportation ninja.

Pre time skip luffy already has 2 lightening speed feats, first of them is when he was blocking lightening with his leg from hitting nami as they went up a giant been stalk.

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*Also to further proff my point is luffys battle with cp9. It is seen that weaker members of the cp9 are able to react to lightening.

Here below is khalifa a weak cp9 member reacting to lightening

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before you even try to continue,may i say,reaction time doesn't equal speed. what your trying to imply is a outlier,when its shown that the CP9 person didn't evade,only reacted in time. and as she says in YOUR scan "i never thought i would be STRUCK by lightning". so its either implying she was hit,or she was able to react in time. which in that case,doesnt matter for two cases. one,naruto is vastly faster then said lightning,and two,even if they were,they would have no chance to even protect themselves against a army of narutos.

Khalifa blocks the lightening with ease. But here is luffy blitzing blueno and fighting on par with rob lucci who are stronger members[ I will also show proof that there is an order of strength from weakest to strongest

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Here below is luffy fighting on par with rob lucci the strongest cp9 member

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and finally below is proof that there in an order of strength in the cp9

ironically, you said on even terms,when it clearly shows when rob transformed, luffy was on the defensive.

*If not for anything luffy by far outspeeds Naruto because he was dodging light beams.

not dodge,REACT, as i already stated.

*Also u forget luffy has his snakeman form whos fists have divine speed.

ok,define DIVINE SPEED and as i allready stated,luffy still got slapped by donuts lover 200 even when he was in snakeman

Below will show u that the snakeman can stack so fast that its arms cant be seen

If u were to skip to 0:35 u will see my proof., plsss click on link and skip to 0:35 to see the feat.

thats a animation choice to show speed,much like how dragon ball characters are shown to disappear with lines on them. good job though on this one.

DURABILITY COUNTER.

*U just claimed that luffy has no island level durability, so luffy tanking a punch that split an ISLAND isn't mountain level??? lol.

mountain and island level isn't the same.

*Luffy has shown enough durability to tank a tailed beast bomb, why?, simple. a tailed beast bomb is a tailed beast chakra explosion, the power of the explosion does not come from its heat output[ as a tailed beast bomb has no heat out put, even if u wanted to give it heat capabilities luffy has extremely high resistance to heat as I have shown in my first argument.], but the true power comes from its extreme force.

this part is undeniably dumb. first you claimed the tailed beast bombs have no heat in them yes? then i guess them literally vaping the surrounding mountains that its touching is not heat.

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when rocks melt (as in a volcano) they become magma (underground) and only lava when it reaches the surface. To vaporize rock you would need to raise the heat way higher than what can occur naturally in a volcano. The temperature of lava when it is first ejected from a volcanic vent can vary between 700 and 1,200 degrees C (1,300 to 2,200 F). heat of vaporization of water = 2257 J/g = 540 calories/gram. Density of water or skin (70% water) = 1 gram/cubic centimetre. it takes serious energy to break these oxygen bonds. In fact, it takes 460 kilojoules of energy to break just one mole of oxygen-hydrogen bonds — around the same energy that a 2,000-pound car going 70 miles per hour on the highway has in potential. And that's just 18 grams of water! So as you can see, it would take a gargantuan amount of energy to separate all the atoms in even a small glass of water — especially if that glass of water is your analog for a person. The human body is a bit more complicated than a glass of water, but it still vaporizes like one. And thanks to our spies spread across scientific organizations, we now have the energy required to turn a human into an atomic soup, to break all the atomic bonds in a body. According to the captured study, it takes around three gigajoules of death-ray to entirely vaporize a person — enough to completely melt 5,000 pounds of steel or simulate a lightning bolt."

https://science.slashdot.org/story/13/09/13/2122208/it-takes-299-gigajoules-to-vaporize-a-human-body

heres the link.

but since it takes MORE energy to vape a rock considering the molecules are more highly packed together. since the bijuubomb vapes mountains CASUALLY, its a no brainier it would kill luffy with one shot,armament haki or not.

Luffy can tank it being that he has natural immunity to blunt forces by virtue of his devil fruit.

are you really calling a bijuubomb blunt force,smh.

Tailed Beast Balls are made from an 8:2 ratio of positive black chakra and negative white chakra .There is no limit to how much chakra can be put into a Tailed Beast Ball so long as the 8:2 ratio is maintained: Kurama has shown to be able to create a Tailed Beast Ball many times bigger than itself when using a significant amount of chakra. Tailed Beast Balls are incredibly dense, such that, when a version 2 Naruto consumes one, he starts sinking into the ground due to the increased weight. Despite how heavy they are, they move at an incredible rate once fired.when the ten tails used it, the Tailed Beast Ball was able to cross several miles in only a few seconds. Tailed Beast Balls are very destructive, creating explosions that are visible from far away and that vaporize everything in the blast area.

*Luffy can tank massive explosion pre time skip in base

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*Luffy gets right back up after explosion

apparently ussopes small bombs are bijuu level. no one beats ussope if hes that powerful lmao.

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*Luffy also tanked a hit from that giant that was strong enough to lift 1,000,000tons.

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This should show u how durable luffy is.

considering that was blunt force base,and bijuubombs are energy base,the feat of the gaint you sent is nothing.

*Well one thing ill really acknowledge Naruto for is his rasen shuriken. You claim it can cut to a cellular level, well its not a problem, luffy can use armament haki to block. Its a spiritual armour which will blok luffy against the attack.

no where is it shown its durable enough to withstand something of a rasenshurikens power. if shark teeth can cut though luffys armament, then the rasenshuriken,that can cut on a cellular level will nuke luffy.

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LMAO AT USSOPE BIJUU LEVEL

DESTUCTIVE CAPABILITIES COUNTER.

*Yes the one piece strong world movie is canon proof is below. Oda draws shiki in the manga and as a backstory for sengoku and garp

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but I don't think the onepiece z movie is canon so ill exclude the feat.

since oneone is in the background,doesn't mean its canon. must mean panda man will get its own movie

This means luffy destroying island is a valid feat. here is the feat below

*Your always talk about luffy getting overwhelmed by numbers. Well ill give u 2 reasons why luffy will handle shadow clones with ease.[bear in mind my first reason will be plausible and my secon reason will be possible]

*Reason 1: Luffy can use his conquerors haki. This haki unleashes an aura which KO's people with low will or no will. Technically shadow clones have no will of their own they are only an extension of narutos will. They are obliged to do what ever Naruto wants them to do so I believe conquerors haki will be effective against them.

absolutely false. not only did you say they have no will,but a extension of NARUTOS will would be downed by haki. smh,let me disprove your first argument about them having no will.

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as you can see, naruto made a shadow clone out of his range and had no knowledge what the shadow clone was doing until it poofed. hince had its own will.

*Reason 2: Luffy's elephant galting attack. As I have said in my earlier argument luffys gear 3 elephant galting attack is able to do 3km of damage to an island size ship. Also considering the ship was made with a wood far more durable than steel and is able to survive pressures of the sea at 10,000metres. The average mountain is 300m.

if luffy did 3km of damage[I have shown this in my first argument], that means luffys damage range was 10mountains[3000m/300m=10]. Therefore luffy can put all shadow clones including Naruto down.

while i agree it will put a SHADOW CLONE down,it wont even hit them considering a clones of naruto allready blitzed the third raikage.

*Luffy also has his red hawk attack which is an attack in which luffy punches fire through his enemy. It is so potent in can burn under 10,000 meters underwater. At that depth even light cant penetrate, but luffys red hawk broke physics. here is the feat below

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This attack should help luffy against Naruto.

this isn't sponge-bob lmao. the heat was generated from the friction of luffys rubber,not his heat. if you put a ball of heated ball into a glass, two things will happen. the water will boil or the water will stop the hot ball. this isnt a physics breaking move.

*Also gear 4 boundman has a major advantage over Naruto which is his overwhelming strength and speed. Gear 4 can spam attacks which sent doflamingo to different parts of dressrosa island at high speed, destroyed multiple buildings and sent doffy flying into a mountain side which created a massive crater[I have shown all these feats in the first argument]. Gear 4 also moves fast enough to seemingly teleport, even over long distances. Here is proof

ok? so this must mean hes the same speed as the cp9

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not really backed, it just means they move at FTE,faster then the eye.

Luffy was flying down from a mountain to the city when he suddenly appears behind doflamingo

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He also replicates the feat again below

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With this combo of speed and strength Naruto is going to be over whelmed by speed and a barrage of powerful attacks.

absolutely not,considering naruto tanked the ten tails Tenpenchii in a weaker form of KCM

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nothing luffy can do will ever break naruto if naruto can survive this.

Now last but not least:

*Luffy destroyed a massive meteor which as the size of a sky island, he did this in base form. Luffy destroys a massive meteor called raigo. A raigo is so powerful that onehit can obliterate an island. But luckily due to luffy lightening immunity he is able to enter it and destroy it from the inside out. He did it in base.

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as the scan you shown me,it clearly wasn't just luffys pure power. as the long eared god said"i frogot that his golden ball could act as a conductor" implying it asorbed the lightning from the meteor and used it as a powered up punch. while impressive, he wouldnt be able to do that without the golden ball,or the lightning aiding him.

*Lastly Luffy has the KING KONG GUN. Naruto is not tanking a direct KKG. I mean look below, it is so powerful it sent massice chunks of the city into the air

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Luffy wins Naruto.

while he couldnt tank one IN BASE, naruto would no sell that in KSM or BSM sage mode,as he survived the Tenpenchii.

Ill like to clarify something as well, kurama is actually 50m. Here is proof.

Look at Naruto standing on the giant frog. U cant clearly see the frog is atleast 40m bigger than Naruto

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Here is the same frog sitting on kurama

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lol kurama is 50-100m

mhh,may i show something.

Using the distance of the chains between the legs to the middle of Kurama's ears here in relation to the tail's length to determine the length of the tail gives a value of 439,75 meters till the curved bit of the tail. Given that this is almost all of Kurama's tail as seen in the scan this puts Kurama's tail length logically at a maximum of 536 meters and at minimum at 440 meters.

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Now we try to get Kurama's height it's standing on all fours like it usually does. As can be seen throughout the series in numerous instances as when the fox attacked Konoha and the instance in which he first appears in a flashback to attack Konoha, one can see that the Kyuubi's lower arms make up almost the entire height of the Kyuubi.

Now using the same scan of the sealed Kurama used to calculate the tail's length to calculate the length of it's bottom arm (measured from the palm to the joint) we get a value of 103,77 meters. This means that Kurama stands just over 100 meters tall.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/kuramas-size-naruto-2022751/

credit here.

LUFFY WINS!

nothing you shown has put luffy even above baby KSM,much less BSM.

naruto has better strength feats then naruto and a stronger output of energy.

naruto is highly faster then luffy,even with luffys pre cog haki

naruto is much more durable then luffy so he would tank the attacks.

naruto has much more potent abilities and can simply overwhelm luffy with shadow clones.

how the match would play out.

luffy would see naruto and attempt to go gear 2

naruto seeing luffy do this immediately uses several dozen shadow clones and uses rasengan to end the fight extremely quickly.

naruto is the clear winner.

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#38 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by ourmanuel (13905 posts) - - Show Bio

wtf are these arguments..........

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#40 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: So I guess u have used up your 2 counter right? So am down to my last counter

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#42 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

@eazy2002: pretty much,remember, i have a finish post and so do you after your counter.

btw,please read my counter extremely clearly. i want this to be exciting,not one sided.

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#43 Edited by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: ok ill try to read counters very clearly. Also after my my counter will the cav be immediately open for voting?

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#44 Edited by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

@eazy2002: no,after your counter, ill use my finisher then you use yours. then it will be up to voting

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#45 Edited by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@rikuyamaha: ok cool. So just to get something straight are finishers just final counters or just ur concluding opinions?

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#46 Posted by RikuYamaha (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

@eazy2002: finishers are both final counters and conclusions on why your character wins.

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#47 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Edited by AlmightyAmortal (953 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#50 Posted by eazy2002 (345 posts) - - Show Bio

ok I am following your lead on this, comedy it is.

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Counter!

STRENGTH COUNTERS!

*Luffy forest destroying feat is still better than naruto's as luffy is in base and weakened but Naruto is using 3 tails. also Naruto's feat is also low considering he wasn't in base like luffy and luffy was also weakened

*Also the sea monster is STILL better than punching a snake one the head. Luffy Oneshotted the sea king and sent it flying, he also did this in base form. Naruto was only able to punch it with nine tails chakra, He wasn't even close from oneshotting at all LMAO, he just hit the snake on the head, here is what happened after he hit the snake

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Not even close to a oneshot despite the fact Naruto was even amped with kurama chakra. Luffy fodderized a sea king in base with no effort and sent it flying, luffys is by far better.

*The only thing u have on strength for Naruto is where he destroys a portion of the forest

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Basically Naruto just clared a bunch of trees and u gonna compare that to weakened luffy destroying a hill, lol.

*Checkout the dust cloud created when a weakened luffy punches sanji

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*Also luffy has mountain level feat, A single punch to hordy jones destroyed the plaza wall of coral reef. The plaza wall is about the same size as the kraken who is 300m monster. The average mountain is 300m high, luffy destroyed the wall which was the size of a mountain with a haki punch.

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Here is the Kraken sitting on the plaza wall and I will also markout the wall luffy destroyed

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*At least u have given kurama 103m in size. I don't exactly agree but its pretty reasonable. With that established luffy can send kurama avatar flying in pieces with g3 and haki since he oneshot the kraken, 10,000metres under water.

*The kurama avatar can also get the same treatment with luffys giant bazooka which cracked and ko'ed a massive giant

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*Luffy destroyed raigo because gold does not conduct electricity which makes it possible to destroy it. Raigo is the size of an island and luffy destroyed it, the feat still stands.

*As I have shown in all my arguments luffy has byfar better physical stats than Naruto.

SPEED COUNTERS!

Before I start I will like to point out that faster than eye movement is faster than lightening. The human eye is capable of tracking lightening therefore something that moves faster than eye tracking is faster than lightening. Lightening can move 1/3 the speed of light. Ok lets begin.

*Luffy reacted to beam of light after it is fired. This far surpasses any of narutos reaction speed feats

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*Pre timeskip luffy who does not have pre cog but can react to lightening

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Naruto requires kcm to react to raikage who is lightening speed.

*With g2 luffy can move faster than the eye can see while appearing in multiple areas

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*Pre timeskip luffy has also shown to be able to react to people who move faster than the eye

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*Luffy has shown to also move faster than the eye can see in base form and even outspeed caesars gastille

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*Luffy has also shown micro second timing. When he saved Kyros from doflamingo doffy was just less than 3cm from decapitating kyros, luffy is nowhere near kyros and doflamingo can throw kicks fast enough to blitz luffy.

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*Luffy also dodged Caesar clowns Explosion. Luffy is still dodging TBB if he has to. The explosion Caesar spammed of the size of his iron factory which is bigger than regular mountains. Luffy now has future sight and luffy also has G2 so he is definatly dodging

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*Luffy is by far faster than Naruto and can possibly speed blitz him and dodging anything Naruto wants to throw at him.

*and also LMAO to snakemans speed being animation choice, try again lol.

DURABILITY COUNTERS!

*Kcm Naruto tanking tenpachii is a useless feat. I read up on Naruto wiki that the ten pachii[also known as cataclysm] Is just an advent of lightening storms, tremors and tornadoes the only thing Naruto is tanking is a poisonous/hazardous environment and those lightening strikes. Luffy no sells lightening and luffy has high poison resistance. Luffy can inhale deadly gases like oxygen

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tenpachii is has no special feat except it has a lot of range.

*Naruto also lacks feats to show he has enough durability to tank g4 punches which can bust multiple city blocks , and send doffy flying to different parts of the island.

*Luffy if definitely tanking rasenshuriken whether it cuts to a cellular level or not. He tanked a slashing wind attack capable of cutting through steel doors and walls. Luffy is tanking rasenshuriken, he can also dodge it as I have shown he has incredible speed.

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*Also Lmao I cant believe u used fishman island luffy to scale the strength of luffys haki lol. Luffy at dressrosa has haki strong enough to block black knight strings. Black knight strings compose of doflamingos birdcage which can cut through island like nothing. Luffy has since upgraded his haki.

*If u say tbb bomb is compose of heat and force luffy is still tanking. Luffy can tank a punch which split an island in half so the force of tailed beats bomb aint doing shit. Luffy can tank burn bazooka WITHOUT HAKI which has a heat capable of liquefying gold. Luffy is tanking a tailed beast bomb for sure. Also tailed beast bombs don't destroy mountains because of heat it is because of force.

*Luffy has shown to be able to no sell massive explosions[ I did not say ussop explosion if equal to TBB, I just meant that luffy in base pre time skip can tank explosions, without haki. Wano arc luffy has immensely strong haki which means he is most likely blocking far bigger explosions with his durability and haki.

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I will also say ussop explosion is small mountain level being that its just the same size as the enis lobby tower which is same size as a mountain.

DESTRUCTIVE CAPABILITY COUNTERS!

*Luffy destroyed an island with g3, the movie is canon as I have proven above, the feat stands.

*Luffy g4 can teleport over long distances and can deliver powerful punches. G4 ragdolls narutos ass

*Naruto has 0 feats to show he has durability to extreme blunt forces.

*Bsm Naruto has no feats to tank Kinng kong gun, He dies terribly.

*Luffy still no sells Naruto clones with elephant galting gun. In fact the clones have no durability feat to show they can even tank a hawk galting from luffy. Hawk galting also have faster than eye sight movement.

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Luffy destroys Naruto.